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redhoodinternaldialectical · 8 months

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My Jason Todd Rec List and Character Manifesto! (Edited and updated 28/01/2024)

This is a fuckin mess my ghouls, but I got categories and I got opinions and who can stop me from typing em out? Certainly not @lazaruspiss who is the reason this thing got made!

The format is gonna be

title and page numbers (No #s if I'm recommending the whole title) picture Summary and general notes My estimate of how unhinged he is in this portrayal What his morals are like; note this isn't about whether he's a protagonist or antagonist

Since cream rises to the top, let us start with:

The Creme de la Creme

The best of the best. The most fun, the most compelling, the most interesting looks into his character.

Green Arrow (2001) #69 - #72

This one really does have it all. Jason runs rings around both Batman and Green Arrow at the same time, all the while going after a goal neither of them ever truly figures out in large part because this story wasn't afraid to let Bruce be either wrong or lying about Jason's motives. It also wonderfully leverages the ways in which the Bats and the Arrows are really good foils for each other. I think I'm going to be turning over the ways these interactions went down for a long ass time. I've been really wanting to go page by page for a comparison between the way Jason treats Mia in this and the way Jason treats Tim in the Titans Tower showdown. Bottom line for this one: It's just so good!

Jason's sanity level: Six out of Ten hinges affixed. He's got a solid grip on things, is reasonably level headed, only problem is he might have completely forgotten how to interact with other human beings outside of combat. Love him for that.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Sympathetic Villain. Decidedly willing to mow down some "brain donors", and his goals are pretty morally grey, but he clearly still has a strong code of ethics.

Joker: the Man Who Stopped Laughing

With Jason's return to being an antagonist after a long stint in the Hero bin comes his return to being really fucking dangerous and whip smart! My boy quotes serious philosophy that gives him a real point to make against non lethal vigilantes and cops! I also think the part where he lets himself be arrested just... it says so much and all of it is wonderfully interesting and feels fitting for his character. He's kept deeply human, and just all of this portrayal gels together really well.

At the time of writing, this comic isn't finished yet, so I'm going off of like 12 issues in which he appears less than the Joker, but what is there is phenomenal, even with Gotham War having... Minorly Derailed Jason's role in things, and one or two inevitable scenes where ya just have to accept that he's not as trigger happy as he should be because DC is married to the Joker.

Also I like that he's friends with my favorite, Stephanie Brown :3 and he and Rose's chemistry is nice. On top of all that? It's a fun comic. Like, I generally hate the Joker, but I found myself enjoying watching the Joker do his Joker things in this one.

Jason's sanity level: Nine out of Ten hinges affixed. Level headed, calm, careful, really the only reason this isn't a 10/10 is cause he's obsessively focused, which like, honestly is pretty reasonable I think.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Clearly Justified Antihero. I almost put down Hero on this one, but ultimately he is just far enough over the line with how he treats the less threatening of the rogues like Killer Moth.

Batman (1940) #408 - #411 Jason's debut featuring Ma Gunn's School and his first ever outing as Robin fighting Two-Face

Just LOOK at this PRECIOUS BOY! I wanna pinch him on his cheeks and give him a handful of these bad boys

Jason has a ton of personality to him right out the gate. The first story has Ma Gunn as the villain and she's a lot of fun. The second story in here with Two-Face is also enlightening with regards to Jason's early personality, even if it's not quite as fun.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero.

Under the Red Hood would be next if it wasn't already filed under ->

Foundational Texts

This is the shit that defines Jason as a character. Much is mutable in any given comic, but somehow, someway, all depictions of Jason are impacted and informed by these three stories. Enough has been said about all of them that I'm gonna keep it brief.

Red Hood: The Lost Days

Jason's sanity level: Eight out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Antihero. He kills some incredibly nasty people, while also doing some genuinely heroic shit. The only places where his morals deteriorate are in the presence of Batman and the Joker.

Under the Red Hood

Jason's sanity level: Four out of Ten hinges affixed. Remember how his morals deteriorated in the face of Batman and the Joker? Yeah, that's mostly because he's way, way too personally invested to think straight about them. He's strategic as fuck, but this is not a stable man's strategy for dealing with his issues.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Sympathetic Villain. He is a revenant, a vengeful juggernaut, and breaks an awful lot of eggs making this brilliant disaster of an omelette.

Batman (1940) #426 - #429 A Death in the Family

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero.

Joker becoming an ambassador to Iran plotlines count: One too many.

Solid Storylines

These ain't the vaulted heights, but not everything has to be the Sistine Chapel. They're solid, and if you're wanting more Jason I do certainly recommend them.

Countdown Presents: The Search for Ray Palmer and Countdown to Infinite Crisis

Jason is in what I like to call his Purposeless Depression Era during this. It's after his plans in Under the Red Hood fail and he's really just got no place to go, no place to be, and in fact is keenly aware that on a cosmic level, he truly does not belong in this world anymore. He's supposed to be dead. There's something I find quite neat about this team up, with Donna Troy and Kyle Raynor and Bob, it's out of the ordinary for Jason, it's not bat related, and the ways he fits and doesn't fit with the other characters are just neat.

I especially recommend Gotham by Gaslight. The plot will be a lil hard to follow if you haven't read the others, but Jason by the end hopes to return to Victorian Era Steampunk Gotham and the moments of him hoping to literally leave his universe behind are both sweet and sorrowful.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. He's just sad and lonely.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero. Even if only Donna is willing to tentatively try to see him that way.

Robin (1993) #177 and one page of #182 and the front half of #183

Despite how much Jason is known for it, I think this is the only time we see him trying to run organized crime outside of Under the Red Hood (and uh debatably Battle for the Cowl). Short lil string of appearances, but critical for understanding how he's seen by Tim during this era if you care about that, and it really cemented my understanding of Jason being strangely honest and forthright.

I think the major way other Bats fail to comprehend him is that they expect him to manipulate through lying, which just isn't his style. He doesn't lie about his motives; he doesn't obfuscate his tactics; he doesn't hide how he's feeling. Hell, he doesn't even try to lie his way out of prison! I could not tell you why this series of interactions gave me this impression but it is why I have such faith that when Jason says something, he probably just means it, even when characters like Dick or Tim assume otherwise.

Pity this was the lead up to Battle for the Cowl.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. He's even attempting to pick himself up out of his Purposeless Depression Era slump at the start.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Antihero.

Nightwing (1996) #118 - #122 aka Brothers in Blood aka the One Where Jason Gets Tentacles

COWARDS and KNAVES will tell you "the tentacles are so icky and everyone is so OOC" or whatever but again they are KNAVES and COWARDS because bitch this shit is GREAT

Jason: Wow! My bestest big brother killed someone who deserved it, so now I (the person he's rejecting only because I kill people who deserved it) have a real chance at being his family again!! :D Hooray! :) Dickie-Bird why don't you look happy to see me? :) Dickie-Bird I went out of my way to get us matching outfits and stalked your work and killed people in your name so it's nice and easy to make room for me in your life! :) :) :)

Dick:

Jason's sanity level: Two out of Ten hinges affixed. My mans is off his rocker and I adore him like this. Frankly, the entire storyline is unhinged, and it only feels appropriate that Jason is similarly bonkers in yonkers.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Villain. You can sympathize with him, and he is still trying to carry out justice, but I have to call it for straight villain when he's threatening to bomb a building full of innocent people.

Batman and Robin (2009) #23 - #25

I don't have much to say about this one. It's good. The above page is pretty much the highlight.

Wait actually I do have something to say and it is that I would like to lick Jason's abs, pls & thx, because the other highlight is that Winick clearly believes in redeeming Jason's value as a villain through sex appeal and it is working lmao

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. Certifiably sane, he's passed all his psych exams!

Jason's moral compass bearing: Villain. He threatens to bomb a train station full of innocent people. While he does do that in service of freeing himself and Scarlet, thus making it not completely self centered, I still gotta put him firmly in Villain.

Nightwing (2016) 2021 Annual

In high contrast to the previous two in which Jason acts as a villain to Dick, this one has them working together and the tentative peace and cautious trust they've got going is interesting to me. This Team Z era Jason is interesting to me in general, though I don't know much about him.

Jason's sanity level: Nine out of Ten hinges affixed. He's quite chill, but there's just this little edge to him that says his relationship to violence is a little too casual a little too deep to really be fully hinged.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Edgy Hero.

Your Mileage May Vary

These stories I can't recommend without major caveats or warnings, but I still think are worth mentioning.

Gotham War (It's such a mangled mess that I'm just gonna link a reading guide.)

So, the main problem here is that Gotham War spans five different titles and had three different authors whose renditions of Jason do not feel cohesive or even coherent. The funny thing is though, each rendition has real merits, and while it doesn't go far enough in condemning Bruce's horrifying treatment of Jason for many people's tastes, I have to point out that it's one of the only comics to condemn an instance of Bruce mistreating Jason at all. The fact that the other Robins come to his defense is a HUGE thing! The bar may be in Hell, but it did clear the bar!

Due to how disjointed it is, I'm going to very loosely separate Jason out into two versions of himself. Think of these not as hard lines, but more a spectrum he slides across depending on what author has him that issue.

Jason Primus combines the ideas in Jason's Under the Red Hood speech about controlling crime rather than trying to stomp it out with his more Heroic modern interpretation. He's a chill, funny, smart guy whose protectiveness over the mooks is really charming.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero.

Jason Secundus is much more violent, not used to working with other people, and paranoid and antsy in a way that causes him to take it out on people who really don't deserve it. This is a compelling take on him, though I like him closer to Jason Primus. His trauma has clearly shaped him a lot, both for better and for worse.

Jason's sanity level: Seven out of Ten hinges affixed. Jason's moral compass bering: Anti-Hero, most of this focuses on him antagonizing two former Joker goons which kinda doesn't work well cause they're mostly scarecrow goons actually and also at one point he hurts them in a way that borderline just seems like stress relief. It's nothing worse than what we see Batman himself doing countless times, but it's still jarring because we've been made to strongly sympathize with the goon in question.

Batman: Three Jokers <- I read it while typing this up, so I got a lotta thoughts

Guh, this one is just fucking sad

So, I don't mind a story being blunt with its message as long as the message actually holds up. Unfortunately, this three parter's attempt at the cycle of violence lesson is... bad. Real bad.

Jason in it is neat! This is a good Jason portrayal somehow despite literally everything about the way this comic frames him! The narrative expects us to believe he is a danger to society on the cusp of becoming another Joker, because he *checks notes* shot the Joker dead, shot at a Joker loyal guy, and roughly interrogated an injured child abuser. At no point does he show signs of wanting to hurt innocent people. At no point does he show signs of doing any hurting without premeditation or a need to defend himself. I'm baffled by this.

My kingdom for a fucking CRUMB of nuance, I swear, smh...

I hear a lot of people hate his one sided romance towards Barbara. This is understandable as it squanders the opportunity to have a female character not be stuck as the narrative sponge for man emotions. I like it from the perspective of a Jason fan, and give condolences for the Barbara fans. It's not healthy, and good fucking job on the janitor sweeping away his letter to her so poor Babs doesn't have to deal with that shit, but I do like Jason's desperation to be loved by someone, anyone, who might show him compassion.

Jason's sanity level: Six out of Ten hinges affixed. He's sad, he's lonely, he needs some PTSD specific therapy, he's a bit creepy about his crush on Barbara, but quite frankly he has it together a lot more than the narrative would like us to believe. The way the other characters treat him like he's some kind of monster just waiting to snap and start maiming people indiscriminately makes me really uncomfortable.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Antihero. Quite frankly I'm tempted to say Hero out of spite.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #1 - #43

There are three transcendental character moments in this run that I think make it worth reading even if not all of it's your cup of tea. On the other hand though there are some big issues that could very easily be deal breakers. Oh and anything after #43 is a wasteland and #43 is included purely for the implication that being transgender made a woman immortal.

The narrative structure is really heavily dependent on rule of emotional impact/cool/allegorical usefulness. Many events will not make any fucking sense based on petty things like basic logic or the laws of physics, but they do work just fine in the area of what makes the story more fun or the emotional beats hit harder. Stronger than average suspension of disbelief is necessary for the reward of getting a lot of stuff that's, like, just really fuckin cool.

The romantic side plot with Artemis is... odd. Either the author, Scott Lobdell, intended to write Jason as a desperate loser trying to date his uninterested lesbian friend who he co-parents with, or he accidentally wrote a romance so awkward and comp-het that I cannot wrap my head around reading it as reciprocated. This works for me because I have a lot of fun reading Jason as a desperate loser who's not even actually in love with her, he just is desperate to cling to the closest thing he's ever gotten to a nuclear family and in denial about being either aro/ace or gay.

Now, lets explore a lil bit of the whole Jason is a loser angle, cause it's not the whole story, there are many points in which Jason gets to be a badass motherfucker, but he is much, much less of the hypercompetant, highly determined, murderous threat he used to be. Almost none of the newer renditions of Jason are. This Jason in particular though is very soft and cuddly, and fits the archetype of man trying to be the edgy bad boy but who secretly just wants a hug and a warm glass of milk.

If I were to describe my personal Jason in a few sentences I would say that he is someone who loves himself viciously. He feels he has been wronged and is willing to burn down the world to rectify that. He will hold your ass at gunpoint and demand the hugs and warm glasses of milk that he fucking well deserves!

This Jason is about as far away from that as you can possibly get. I still like him though, and I do not count him as being a different character, because when you start with emotional logic that goes like this:

It wasn't my fault + I deserve better = I get to burn the world down in order to get better

It becomes extremely difficult to ever stop burning the world without also deciding "It was my fault" or "I don't deserve better". Jason is meant to have changed a lot, and this is a plausible evolution of the Jason I prefer.

Finally, the handling of Bizarro, a mentally disabled character, is a sensitive enough topic that your mileage will vary, even if I can't think of a bad thing to say about it. Jason and Artemis are really pretty good about treating him with respect, giving him help where he needs it and autonomy where he's capable of taking it. They raise him, but don't control him, and he is literally three days old when they find him so this isn't infantilization. It takes the framing of Lenny from of Mice and Men and Flowers for Algernon and rejects them in a way that I am satisfied with. You'll just have to read it for yourself to see if you're satisfied as well.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. I kinda wish he was more unhinged.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero. He even saves a puppy and gives them pats.

Knight Terrors: Robin

Have you ever been in the mood for a syrupy sweet hurt/comfort fanfiction in which Jason and Tim were magically forced to talk about how much they like each other in order to overcome their own insecurities? Do you wish that existed as a lavishly illustrated two issue comic?

If you answered yes to those two questions then congratulations! It does exist, this is it, go have fun!

If you think that sounds like ham fisted garbage turning what should be several long arcs of serious reconciliation and deeply meaningful character moments into two issue fan service schlock then condolences! I wish you all the best in denial, as all comic fans sail that river sooner or later and I shall join you upon it someday.

What category do I fall into? Well I think this is definitely ham fisted, but I won't kick a boar out of bed as long as they ain't a bore, and this little ditty is certainly entertaining.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason't moral compass bearing: Hero.

Batman and Robin Eternal

This is a decent portrayal of Jason in his modern, much friendlier, and much more bat family integrated rendition. He has some fun moments in it, and I like his staby bracers.

I don't like this comic. It commits the most dire of writing sins: Being boring. I think about Jason every second of every minute of every day; if your comic that majorly features a good portrayal of him cannot hold my attention, then something has gone very wrong. Hopefully one of you will like it more than I do.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero.

Suicide Squad: Get Joker! (Content warning for suicide, skip to the hot take if this'll get to ya - also spoiler warning cuz I can't discuss this properly without discussing the ending)

A three issue miniseries in which Jason is inducted into the Suicide Squad on a mission to kill the Joker. He's highly competent as a team leader, grounded, intelligent, and uses measured violence in a way that is satisfyingly tactical. The squad they threw together honestly has some pretty neat chemistry as a whole, and the characters were appropriately messy and quite likable.

This isn't higher on the list because it thinks it earned it's ambiguous ending, and frankly, it's wrong about that. Ambiguous endings live and die by the question they make the audience sit with - It has to be worth losing out on the emotional payoff of a solid ending.

The question of "If you left Jason in a room with the Joker and a gun with one bullet, would he shoot the Joker or himself?" is a really shitty question. Like, did the authors not realize that just on a logistical level, Jason could leave the room and find a second bullet after shooting the Joker? Like, seriously, even if we accept the premise that Joker's speech got to Jason, there are no reasons for him not to choose the "both" option. The only way I can imagine this working is if the Joker is actually the fucking Purple Man from Jessica Jones using mind control.

So we exchanged the validation of literally all our protagonists' struggles/sacrifices paying off for... the vague implication that Jason unforgivably betrayed his teammates, himself, and the entire world because he was so eager to die that he couldn't wait ten fucking minutes. If I loved the Joker I might feel differently about it, but as is, I felt insulted.

This would have been Solid Storylines or maybe even Creme de la Creme if not for that implication. It's not boring though! The rest of it up to the end is honestly pretty damn good, if a bit convoluted, and much of the ending's sour taste can be assuaged by getting out a sheet of paper and doodling Jason opening Joker's head with a handgun and then going out for icecream with the team.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. He's a sad, sad lad tho.

Jason's Moral Compass Bearing: Anti-Hero, forced to be much more violent than he wants to be.

A Hot Take

I bet you thought the tentacles were the hot take! HAH! MuahahaahhHAHAHAH - Prepare now, puny mortals, to witness me defend Pill Helmet Jason AND his fashion choices!

No, I am not talking about Winick's redo late in the game, we've already been over that one. I mean I will defend Grant Morrison's flop era, three foot head gear wearin, goofy ass, unwashed ass, "how to build ur brand" reading maniac

It's time to talk about Batman and Robin (2009) #1 - #6

The interpretation of one scene makes or breaks this Jason:

If you believe he is being insincere and manipulating her into putting all her emotional eggs in the basket of his crusade, ignoring her wellbeing in favor of his 'brand', then this is probably the worst mischaracterization of Jason ever written.

If you believe he is being sincere, genuinely comforting her in the only way that he's got to deal with his own trauma, giving her real affection and not pushing her to take either option with the mask because he trusts her to make that decision for herself, then this gets Jason very right.

No matter what Morrison might have intended, I choose to believe it's the latter. This is terrible advice to give a trauma victim, but it makes perfect sense for Jason to believe that about his own trauma, and thus to pass that maladaptive view along. He doesn't try to assure her that the mask can come off safely or that he'll get her a doctor because he really can't promise her either of those things. It would be cruel to her to pretend that he's got a solution. Jason can't undo the damage that was done to her any more than he can force a dead Bruce to kill the Joker.

Instead he offers her purpose, and reassurance that she's gonna look badass if she never does take it off, and protects her when she's in trouble.

You can claim this is just him acting out his chosen Hero role, but like, WHY would he have chosen to method act that role 24/7 if he wasn't trying to BE a Hero who protects people like Scarlet? There's nothing in it for Jason to fake this.

I also think if he was being written out of character as a manipulator we would have seen him use a romantic or sexual angle which he absolutely doesn't do.

Dickie, you are such a funny Batman, they never shoulda brought Bruce back tbh.

Instead, he seems to be taking a more parental role, in a near perfect reflection of how Bruce took him in when he was a kid. Just he's doing it his way, meaning that whenever Scarlet goes further with the violence than Jason seems to want to, he backs her up instead of chastising her.

Speaking of violence and morals, Let the Punishment Fit the Crime is a coherent moral position to take, even if you (understandably) disagree with it, or disagree with what punishments fit which crimes. It's basically the same moral position as every other version of Jason there's ever been! Like, is he even killing more people than he used to in stories like Under the Red Hood? No, I don't think he is.

The branding thing is weird, lil annoying too after a while, but ultimately it still makes sense. And brings me around to my promised defense of his fashion choices.

First of all the symbolic importance of the fact that he wears white cannot be overstated in my mind. Will I elaborate? No, this post is way too long already lmao! Second off, it's supposed to be silly. I believe the silliness was a conscious, calculated choice, and the right one to make.

Jason doesn't believe that fear works, he's not trying for pure intimidation, and he knows that he's going to have to appeal to people in his bid to be seen as a Hero. Making himself seem big but non-threatening, a bright patch in the night, makes real sense.

Take a look at this view of Jason from Scarlet's POV when he comes to rescue her from the cops after she kills her dad:

He's got a smoking gun in his hand and he just shot two people dead, yet we're hard fuckin pressed to find him intimidating aren't we?? Cornball dialogue, and the silliest fuckin hat in the universe, because he's not meant to be from this era, he's emulating the Golden and Silver age comics and all their goofiness. He's trying to be the older, happier, sillier batman that used to exist (at least in his head), while doing what he believes is right and necessary.

The costume makes sense dammit!

Also it just doesn't look bad, I can't provide an argument for this, it's just true!!

Also also every one of these fuckers should be wearing a helmet too, this is basic brain safety, if you're gonna go around antagonizing fuckers with guns you need to make your head at least nominally bulletproof, it's that simple!!!

Now... do I recommend you read this? (This section was rewritten on January 28th, 2024)

Yes, with significant caveats. There's a reason I chunked this in with YMMV.

First is the Batman typical ableism of just really fucked depictions of mental illness. I normally wouldn't warn for this because everyone knows most of the rogues and will be aware of what they bring to the table, but Professor Pyg is obscure enough I wouldn't expect people to know, and the way he's written just... hurts. Like there's just something about him that is painful to read as someone that's got several schizophrenic friends who are near and dear to my heart. I would hesitate to recommend it to any of them the same way I'd hesitate to recommend Silence of the Lambs to most other trans people.

Secondly this comic is Extremely Gay (a definite positive!) however it is Extremely Gay in a way that kinda requires some onboarding and analysis to properly parse and that is actually why this post was edited:

The first time I read this comic, my impression was that it was vitriolically homophobic. Considering that at the time I had heard many things about Grant Morrison, and none of them good, I went with my gut. I put here that while I would defend Jason's characterization, I couldn't in good faith recommend something so bigoted, detailed what felt bigoted, and went on with my day.

Then a while later I saw a post that I suspect was talking about this one saying something along the lines of "How the hell could you call Grant Morrison, who gave us so many of our most iconic gay characters, homophobic? The racism and such I can understand but homophobic? No."

To which my initial response was a resounding: Wha??? Like, genuinely how was I supposed to read this and not get homophobia out of it?? But I went and looked Morrison up and yeah sure enough the guy's queer so I dug deeper and mulled it over until I figured out what the fuck I was missing. So, this section is a correction and an apology about that earlier homophobia claim. Sorry about that.

The styling of this queerness are highly akin to that of the John Waters movie Pink Flamingos which I'll let Matt Baume explain better than I ever could. This guy right here is pretty much the perfect example, Hell, he's even literally named The Flamingo.

Essentially it's queerness is all aggressive, unapologetic, and designed to be provocatively shocking, which can be jarring if you're not ready to flow with it. Also he likely had to arrange a lot of things to get around censorship, same as Judd Winick did. For instance the fact that Dick spoke the same circus lingo as the police precinct destroying troupe of Very Queer Freakshow Workers was meant to imply that Dick is Very Queer too. Pretty sure he would've said that in a far less convoluted way if he could've.

So, with the bulk of my initial reservations about this comic disproven... I have no choice but to straight up recommend it to anyone who thinks they can jive with this vibe of storytelling!

Jason's sanity level: One out of Ten hinges affixed. Obsessive, not taking care of himself, possessed of some really maladaptive trauma coping frameworks, completely unhinged. My condolences to his mental health, but I do love to see it.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Antihero. It's weird because this is undeniably a much darker comic, and Jason certainly feels darker, but in terms of what he actually does, and what the other characters do, his violence is honestly very tame.

So, cards on the table, here is the core of who Jason is to me:

He's got clear moral motives and a drive to help as well as harm, though violence and harm are the main ways in which he tries to improve the world.

When confronted he does not back down; he does not let himself be overshadowed or silenced. He is confident in his decisions and every bit of push back is already accounted for in his head.

Everything he does is premeditated. He is not impulsive. His plans may sometimes be unhinged but they are methodically planned.

He is painfully sincere, the way fire is painfully hot.

He desperately desires love and connection, but it will take many years of constant rejection and fighting before he is willing to accept any kind of compromise to his ethics for the sake of civility.

Under all the hurt and combativeness, he's a pretty goofy guy! He's got a sense of fun and likes to be flamboyant and silly when he can!

He's a villain, a hero, a protagonist, an antagonist, and everything between the extremes. He exists as a powerful counter-thesis to Batman, and as such DC can't ever fully answer the question of what to do with him. He exists in this waffling limbo state as his morals are debated, stretched, refuted, turned on their head. I think that makes him a wonderfully fascinating character to love.

I hope you enjoyed this and, like, go have fun reading comics!

#jason todd #red hood #comic recommendations #Damian's Tomfoolery #dc comics #dc universe #long post

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captainofthetidesbreath · 2 years

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If Chet is a little over 400 years old as of 843 PD, here's a list of events he is possibly older than, best as I can surmise:

88 years ago, about 755: The Myriad is established.

121 years ago, about 722: The Iron Authority conquers the Beynsfal Plateaus.

208 years ago, about 635: Yussa buys the Open Quay.

231 years ago, about 612: Whitestone is founded.

243 years ago, about 609: The Clasp is established.

248 years ago, about 595: Thordak attacks Ank'Harel and is nearly killed by J'mon.

258 years ago, about 585: Molaesmyr falls. Uthodurn shelters many of its refugees.

275 years ago, about 568: The Cerberus Assembly is established.

299 years ago, about 544: The Empire declares war on the Julous Dominion, beginning the Marrow War. The Julous Dominion is conquered by the Empire. The Claret Orders is established.

305 to 325 years ago, about 513 to about 528: The Icelost Years. Errevon conquers most of Tal'Dorei.

329 years ago, 514: Rexxentrum is founded.

between 317 to 332 years ago, between about 511 and 526: The Arcana Pansophical is founded. The Scattered War ends, and Zan Tal'Dorei is crowned Sovereign.

between 349 to 364 years ago, between 479 and 494: The Kingdom of Drassig is established.

408 years ago, about 435: Zadash is founded. The Clovis Concord is established.

somewhere from 398 to 432 years ago, about 445 to 411: Ank'Harel is founded.

432 years ago, about 411: Yenk swallows the Spire of Conflux.

#Chetney Pock O'Pea #Critical Role #Critical Role things

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stealingyourbones · 1 year

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DPXDC Prompt Masterlist #401-450

401. Bat Tutor

402. Time to Give an Old Friend a Call...

403. Wes Weston, Reporter for the Gotham Gazette

404. Unwanted Heirloom: The Ghost King's Contract

405. Danny: CCPN Photographer

406. Danny: Gotham Biochemist

407. New Management and Better Ghost Gear

408. Ancient Flowers for Poison Ivy

409. Fix and Unthaw (Dr. Freeze)

410. Sam finds Injured Jason

411. Dangerous Feedback (GL)

412. Batman took Ghost Drugs

413. Wes Weston finds Jason Todd

414. Magic and Monster Fucker (John Constantine)

415. Glow In The Dark Eyes (Wes)

416. Constantine meets Clockwork

417. Ghostly Wing AU

418. Do Not Enter: Radiation Hazard (DP)

419. Eldritch Dreams and Nightmares

420. Danny is Terry's Dad

421. Jason's Aunt: Sam Manson

422. Jason Watches his Death Again

423. GZ Out of Sync with Reality (Fav Prompts)

424. What a Tall Woman

425. Jason Time Swap AU (Fav Prompts)

426. Jason Rewatches the Titan Tower Incident

427. John Constantine Saves Danny

428. Only Liminal People can see Ghosts. Tim isn't Liminal

429. Danny Possesses Jason's Motorcycle.

430. Killer Moth's Sidekick

431. Impaired Speaking Jason with Ghost Speak (Fav Prompts)

432. Jason and Jazz go to the same Gym

433. Oracle meets Jazz Fenton

434. Danny thinks GL's are Ghosts

435. Maddie is Friends with Jim Gordon (Fav Prompts)

436. Danny owns a DC Character's Soul

437. Tech Disaster

438. Dani meets Dick Grayson.

439. Dick Mistakes Jazz as Babs

440. Billy's Twitch Chat Rants

441. Kwan works in the Wayne PR Dept.

442. Ra's tries to Clone Tim. Instead Teleports Dani

443. Danny meets the Ghost of Robin

444. Twinsies! (Damian and Danny family bonding)

445. Damian gets Revived. Wakes up in GZ

446. Danny is Wayne's Personal Pilot (Fav Prompts)

447. Tim Drake's Secretary: Daniel Fenton (Fav Prompts)

448. Golden Age Superman Meets Danny

449. Dan Phantom and Jason Todd are Bros

450. The Speedforce rejects the GZ

#tried to make the titles more cohesive and easy for you to search for a specific idea #hope this helps and is nicer #bones masterlist #bones prompts #dpxdc #dp x dc #dp x dc prompts #danny phantom #bones writes

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laufire · 4 months

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it's very funny (read: not funny) how after the new 52 reboot, dc altered two of my favourite first meetings (you know how much I care about first meetings) in a very similar war.

first you have batman incorporated vol. 2 #2, that more or less reproduced the first meeting between bruce and talia in detective comics #411 in a few flashbacks (league dude fighting it off with ra's kidnaps talia, bruce is fighting it off with him and ends up wounded and in her medical care, etc. the flashback doesn't include the very best part of the first meeting, at the end of the story, so: read 'tec #411 it's great. there's a facsimile reprint coming on march if you think you'll be into it). but then... makes it as if that meeting, and talia falling for bruce during it, was all orchestrated by ra's.

then you have red hood and the outlaws vol. 1 #0. its first sin is that it changes bruce and jason's first meeting completely: instead of occurring on the anniversary of the death of bruce's parents, involving a kid showing the gumption to steal the batmobile's tires and making bruce laugh in such a momentous anniversary... it's just batman catching jason as he tries to steal some prescription drugs (not even for his now presumed dead mother) from leslie's clinic. then it commits the BIGGEST sin of saying this was all... orchestrated by the joker, who one day saw jason and decided to manipulate his whole life (taking dad away, faking mom's death, putting him outside the clinic) to make him, somehow, become batman's sidekick.

in the first case, I don't mind it as much, if only when compared to the other. it annoys me that talia's feelings are rewritten as the result of manipulation, but a.) ra's is a mastermind type, so they're not just elevating his character for no reason, and b.) given this is the very comic that made talia a rapist, I'm gonna pick my battles. plus I only recently read 'tec #411 so as much as I love it, it's not part of my Psyche the same way batman #408 is lol.

but the second one profoundly aggravates me lmfao. first, because of just how much I love their new earth meeting!! lobdell's version focuses on what a lot of writers afterwards have tried to use to smear jason's name, aka, "he's just some juvenile delinquent". he's also made jason part of a gang, when new earth!jason clearly had very clear lines about what he was willing to do (boost what he needed to survive) and what he wasn't (becoming "a crook", joining ma gunn's gang).

and like... to be blunt, in no logical universe seeing some rando steal from a clinic would make bruce up and make him robin. it's the sequence of "shameless enough to go for the batmobile" + feisty against bruce + "ready to prevent crime on his own when it looked like batman wasn't going to" that did it. of course making any random kid robin wouldn't be logical anyway lol, and bruce's own loneliness was the deep motivating factor... but one of this versions make jason distinctive, someone who WOULD trigger bruce's baby robin fever. and the other is generic and makes me feel pretty sceptical about the whole thing.

and that's not even getting into the joker's supposed role in all this because FUCK THAT. good GOD do I hate the idea that the freaking joker is some super genius mastermind playing five dimensional chess with the bats and orchestrating events years in advance. my first story really reading joker was aditf. the guy beats robin to near death (which he manages thanks to the element surprise, deceit, and having goons help him), blows him up to hide the evidence because he's scared of what batman would do to him, then immediately admits he killed robin to taunt batman the next time he sees him. I can't ever buy him as anything other than a coward dumber than a bag of rocks that just Does Random Shit to people who can't fight back because he's a sadist, and gets away with it because unlike the people he faces, he has not an ounce of sense or morals or apprehension that could stop him. I'm not gonna lie and say I've ever enjoyed the joker as a character (I think he's trite and uninventive and his utter lack of inner life bores me), but this turn has made him completely unbearable, and his continuing survival all the more inexplicable the more dangerous he gets.

tl;dr the new 52 tried to fix a lot of shit that wasn't broken but these two examples make me want to ask for financial compensation.

#no i didn't pay a cent for reading this. still i deserve the money.#talking to the void #my thoughts #dc #dc thoughts #dc comics #anti new 52 #jason todd #talia al ghul #bruce wayne #antijoker for ts #bitter lau tag

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thecruellestmonth · 2 years

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Maybe you already know that the idea of Tim Drake walking through Gotham alone at night and secretly snapping photos of Batman and Robin is just a fanon concept invented by Batfamily fandom—and in canon Tim actually spent most of his childhood at a private boarding school and learned about Batman's adventures through the news.

But in the DC Animated Universe, there is a version of "Tim Drake" who snuck around the Gotham rooftops to watch Batman and the first Robin through binoculars.

The Batman Adventures: The Lost Years #4

Why is tiny Tim hanging around unsupervised in the seedy parts of Gotham? Because he lives there. This version of Tim is an orphaned thief who lives in Crime Alley, and his dad was a small-time criminal unfortunately employed by Two-Face.

The New Batman Adventures "Sins of the Father" vs. Batman #408 + #411 from this post

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pluckysidekick · 4 months

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I’m back with Part 2 of my playlist of Great American Songbook standards and other classic songs that embody Nace’s journey in Season 4, inspired by @emorfili’s post. Check out Part 1 here. Both posts contain Spotify links, but you can find all of these tracks on Apple Music and YouTube. DM me for a link to the entire playlist. Shall we?

1. Picking up with fan favorite Episode 408, George Benson’s 1976 slammin’ This Masquerade, written by Leon Russell, works on so many levels for this episode: Nancy and Ace having to pretend to be each other in front on Thom, acting as if everything is OK between them, with neither saying what they really feel. “We tried to talk it over but the words got in the way, We're lost inside this lonely game we play.”

2. They Can’t Take That Away from Me is so perfect for the 408 sunset scene when Ace returns Nancy’s necklace, and they seem to come to some kind of peace (for the present). They may not have been able to make it work, but they still have a deep bond that no one can take away. Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong’s duet of the Gershwin classic is the version.

3. Witchcraft - Frank Sinatra’s definitive version works for so much of Nancy Drew, but I picked it for Episode 409 for Nancy and Ace’s twin supernatural storylines, each of them beginning to fall for someone who may not be what they seem, and of course for Bess’s day in court defending the supernatural, and exposing the real history of Horseshoe Bay with witchcraft.

4. Nancy tells Nick in 409 that she wants a relationship that’s simpler than the ‘messy’ state of things with Ace (although note the look on her face as she says it). A Sunday Kind of Love by Etta James describes so well what Nancy thinks she wants in 409 and going into 410. Meanwhile Ace is falling under the spell of his mystery ghost - you could even say he’s Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered (I would). I went with Doris Day’s classic take from 1950.

5. Speaking of 410, I had to give a nod to Tristan Glass with Nat King Cole’s Nature Boy. Poor Tristan really goes through it this season and especially in this episode as he fights for his life when his would-be date shoots him, and from which he recovers only for his parents to kidnap and attempt to sacrifice her. I hope he has a nice life!

6. Episode 411 has Nancy crashing Ace’s Seder and causing a storm inside The Claw when she tries to raise Alice to discover how she died. Harold Arlen’s Stormy Weather sung by Lena Horne really drives home Ace’s stormy emotions, Nancy’s desperation (“Don't know why, there's no sun up in the sky, Stormy weather, Since my man and I ain't together, keeps raining all of the time”) and Alice’s pain that generates the storm.

7. Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea - The tension between Nancy and Ace that spills over from 411 to Episode 412 is all the more shocking because we’re used to them being soft with each other. But once Nancy is hot on the trail of the sin she erased, she’s not going to give up. Harold Arlen’s song, here sung by Tony Bennett in 1964, perfectly depicts that tension as Ace tries to give Nancy the runaround (and of course she isn’t having it): “I don’t want you, But I hate to lose you, You’ve got me in between, The devil and the deep blue sea”.

8. I’ve Got You Under My Skin - The venom that erupts when Ace & Nancy repeatedly confront each other in 412 couldn’t exist without the strong feelings that still run under the surface. Nancy admitting that she hasn’t moved on, and the look Ace gives her - they’ve got each other under their skin. Frank Sinatra’s 1956 gorgeous recording of the Cole Porter tune mirrors the back and forth of the star-crossed lovers throughout the season, but especially as we near the end.

9. “Oh Sinnerman, where you going to run to?” That’s the question this traditional spiritual continues to ask throughout Nina Simone’s 1965 powerhouse of a track. Nancy and Ace are both on the run in 412 — Nancy toward the truth of their sin, and Ace away from it. In Episode 413, they work together with the Crew and Tristan to lift the sin fog that’s infected the town, and discover Nancy’s soul connection to the root of the town’s sin. This legendary recording captures the frenetic energy of Nancy and Ace’s journey toward redemption and forgiveness.

10. The finale quickly moves from chaos to resolution of all of our favorite characters’ futures — and for Nancy and Ace’s relationship. Johnny Hartman’s voice on 1963’s My One and Only Love is simply beautiful, capturing Ace’s emotion as he finally comes back to Nancy, heart in hand. Swoon.

11. It Had to Be You - I had to include this one, recorded by Harry Connick, Jr. for another epic slow burn, friends to lovers romance, 1989’s When Harry Met Sally. Nancy and Ace are the soulmates that chose each other (and their friends), which this song’s lyrics capture so perfectly: “For nobody else gives me a thrill, with all your faults, I love you still, it had to be you, wonderful you, it had to be you.”

12. Cheek to Cheek - We didn't get the 6 minute director's cut of this scene that included a little dance with a dip (grr), but we did get that sense of effervescence once Ace and Nancy have broken the curse. Ella and Louis trading off verses on Irving Berlin's timeless classic is just the mood.

13. Ending on a sentimental note, At Last Nancy and Ace are together, and they and all of the Crew have the next part of their journeys mapped out. This lovely Etta James 1960 track is a perfect ending for this playlist, and for Nancy and Ace, Bess, George, and Nick as they say goodbye to The Claw.

So there you have it, my picks for Nace S4, classic style. Would love to hear what you think! Tell me your favorite pick, what I missed, or what you would have chosen instead. Hope this playlist brings a little joy this festive season - I think it’s the perfect background soundtrack for reading all of the @secretsleuthexchange fics!

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original-character-championship · 1 year

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Bracket G First Half!!!

These ocs are entering the competition on Wednesday 19th at 5pm GMT!!!

385. Eloise Garminebhel (@exhaustioninducedapathy)

386. Hyung (@pkstarstruck

387. Skater & Kronos (@kratt09)

388. Lucy (@blazernot)

389. Valerio Álvarez (@lieutenant-amuel)

390. Gavin (@punchodile)

391. Amber Rio (@cosmik-koto)

392. Chess (@concealeddarkness13)

393. Sollicitus (@skyderman)

394. Virgil Darca (@rusted-muses)

395. Spinz (@xaeyrnofnbe)*

396. Miko (@byteduchess)*

397. Lotus & Maple (@echoheart0324)

398. Enigma (@sad-tacocat)

399. Vin - Sentinel-General Vincent 'Nate' Hudson & RJ MacCready (@theartofblossoming)

400. Musicbox (@mxdragonica)

401. Suzuki Nobu & Yoshioka Jun (@to-hell-with-good-intentions & @hilowperfixations)

402. Aubrey Miller (@serethespider)

403. Anvilhead (@sixtyt-en)

404. Xifang Baihu (@shranstan)

405. OG dew (@lemoneychicken)

406. Soul & Cred, or soulstone (@vampireautism)

407. Jhero Decedar (@scribespirare)

408. Kalamari & Magnapinna Talismani (@arcadian-vampire)

409. Mirage (@theshrimpgod)

410. Eris Caroll & Mendacium (@kalopseance)

411. Claire Saltzman & Valerie Astaire & Aine Simons (@snazzy-cici)

412. Candid (@halemerry)

413. Kassem & Vermont (@ow-old-men)

414. Dawn (@rais-crockpot)

415. Cherish (@kindledrose)

416. Royale (@ittybluejay)

*i have been asked to move this matchup to the second half - it will just get posted later there's no other change

#brackets #oc championship #bracket g

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jesamnelovelace · 2 years

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So I’m going to assume the reason people think that Robin Jason was written as edgy in the webtoon was because of this line.

But I don’t see that as being out of character for him. That just seems like how he often is when his parents are brought up.

Here’s him talking about his ma

Batman (1940) #408

Here’s how he acted when he found out Two Face killed his dad

Batman (1940) #411

And of course the reason he left in Death in the Family was because he was grieving for his parents

Batman (1940) #426

I think because of DC so often trying to retcon Jason to be angry and edgy all the time as a kid people have decided he was actually the total opposite, and they’ve started to ignore the moments he had where he wasn’t all happy and smiley. The truth is he’s never been one extreme or the other. He was a good kid who sometimes got angry or upset about things in his life, and that doesn’t make him a bad person. Especially considering the fact that more often than not his anger came out when it involved his parents.

#jason todd #bruce wayne #red hood outlaws

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thatiranianphantom · 9 months

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No, but it really is going to be okay, a rambly Nancy Drew/Nace meta

I'm just closing my eyes and picturing this:

I feel like you can sum up my thoughts on 412 as this:

But should you be in the mood for a brain dump (hopefully a reassuring one?), click that cut, my friend.

Okay, let's get some disclaimers out of the way to begin with.

I only read the subtitles, and watched certain parts, didn't see the entire episode. So there could very well be nuance here that I am missing.

I, too, am frustrated with how this season has shook out. Being disappointed that they are literally leaving things to the finale is valid. I would never have done the season like this given the chance. And being let down by that is okay! Goddamn, there was a lot of lobster boy in this season, and they, as of now, inexplicably expected the viewers to be emotionally invested in him?

I could end up being the world's biggest clown, and be 100% wrong on everything, or again, there is nuance here I didn't see or consider, leading to me being wrong. I am accepting that as a real possibility.

HOWEVER,

Here is what (to my understanding) the show would like me to believe:

Due to something maybe involving the pickled curse, Ace had to choose to save Captain Thom or the captain Alice, and he saved Thom but couldn't save Alice. Captain Thom and Ace are alive and do not remember, and yet Alice is still dead.

Ace was riddled with guilt and called Nancy, who on her own, erased this, mooting the conversation we saw in 408. This only erased the memory of the sin, not the sin itself. Nancy didn't undo the sin, she just erased the memory. We know this, because Alice is still dead.

Ace and Nancy are no different in 408 than they were in 409, the only thing that changed is the events of the night of 408, which they do not remember, thus it wouldn't have altered their behaviour.

George, Nick, Bess and all of the crew were unaffected, memories and behaviour wise, by anything that happened. There is nothing supernatural coming between Ace and Bess, nothing that is making Nick push Nancy towards Tristan, nothing that is making Bess and George particularly close.

The Nancy of 409-411, the one who referred to Ace as a "relationship" and her "ex", is no different from the Nancy of before 408, who was pining hard over Ace. Again, the only thing that changed, neither of them remembered.

Ace and Nancy are cold and bitter to each other in a way they've never been in 4 seasons. He didn't want her at the Seder, so much to the point that Bess panics when she shows up, despite inviting both her dads and her dad's girlfriend. And yet that relationship, which, again, is portrayed quite differently in 409-411 than before, is enough for Nancy to abandon the entirety of her morals and belief system to save and protect Ace. Instantly.

Nancy and Ace have some memory of being something to each other, enough for them to acknowledge them both not having moved on, but the actual interactions they are referring to are and have been extremely vague since 409.

Ace, the person who knows Nancy better than anyone, is attached enough to a ghost that he will yell at Nancy repeatedly and ask her why she has to solve something. A ghost he met what was canonically probably no more than a few days ago.

Tristan, who has been in 5 episodes, and the ghost, who has been in 3, are just as significant as love interests as the 4-season buildup to Nace.

George is moving away from Horseshoe Bay, and completely supports Nick's relationship with Jade (this one may be real, but my Fanson heart doesn't want it to be).

Very little from early on in the season connects to later in the season in a significant way.

The connection Nancy and Tristan have (a relationship 5 episodes in the making) is stronger than the connection she feels to Ace (a relationship 4 seasons in the making).

Look. LOOK. Look.

Maybe some of this is true. Maybe indeed, Nancy and Ace have truly just moved on, they are different people, they are interested in different people. Maybe platanchors can't platanchor forever, and they truly did intend to do away with 4 seasons of character development (How very HIMYM of them).

But in Nancy Drew, a show that nearly always lays out its mysteries with explicit, agonizing detail, and centers itself around the fundamental concept of love being the most powerful thing in the world, capable of spanning time and space, that is a lot to ask me to swallow at face value. All of this together makes very little sense, given what we've seen, not only in the past season but the past year.

And these are a few things that I find, at best, extremely fishy about the whole affair.

Why hasn't Nace or anyone mentioned the curse since 407? Nick is pushing Nancy to Tristan despite having a despondent Ace grieving over Nancy at his doorstep two episodes ago?

How am I expected to buy that between 408 and 409, Nancy and Ace just up and moved on, decided they were nothing to each other, and jumped right in with their whole asses to their love interests, if the sin that was erased only changed the events of one night, which until now, neither remember (and Ace still doesn't). The fights also really seemed to show that what they remember and what we, the audience, saw, is fundamentally different.

The mystery seems so lackluster. I don't know how to explain it except that the writing on the mystery seems so lazy in a way it never has before, unless there was a twist that upends the entire thing that they've been laying hints for this entire time. I believe we still don't know what started the fire in the first place. We know that in order for the Sin Eater to erase a sin, you have to pay a toll. What if the toll was Nancy and Ace forgetting what they were and Nancy being bound to the Sin Eater? That would explain both the forgetting and the connection with Tristan. We still don't know what Chief Lovett and Nashua's connections are. Via Kennedy, we still don't know Tristan's full importance.

The ND writers are very well aware of what the fandom wants. They are extremely interactive with the fandom. The writers are still talking to the fandom. I just have so much trouble envisioning a scenario where they essentially say "lol just kidding on that nace thing, enjoy the chronicles of nancy and lobster boy" in the penultimate episode, unless there is a twist we weren't expecting that brings the whole thing back to Nace.

Openly admitting this is thinner and more subjective, but I feel like Kennedy has been about as reassuring as she is allowed to be, the writers have been tweeting things like "there is nothing to be afraid of", and this episode has been described as setting the bases for 413's home run (or something to that effect, I don't sportsball).

It almost seems like they want us to take this at face value, to set it up for the Nace twist at the end. ND loves its ending twists.

And all of this (so close to shutting up I promise) brings me to the 413 description.

Few things here. While it is possible that Nancy figuring out the sin she erased was the "most shocking discovery yet" I have some...pretty severe doubts. And if it wasn't, we haven't gotten to that revelation yet. And we know based on this description that this revelation has something to do with Ace. Again, it is possible that this is Nancy finding out about her sin, but it almost feels like that's been dealt with in 412? Are they going to...rehash it again in 413? I doubt it. This lends a lot of credence to my theory that there is a twist yet to be had. One that will bring us epically back around to Nace.

Now, could I be wrong about all of this? Maybe. I haven't seen the finale, I am but a clown on the internet. And again it is valid to be disappointed in the way the show has chosen to approach this. I do think there is a conversation to be had about the somewhat aggressive way we consume media, especially when given access to artists via social media, but that is an entirely separate conversation. But do I think Nace is over and done for good and we should just give up now? All I can say is

#Nancy Drew Spoilers #Nancy Drew CW #Nace #Nancy Drew

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michaeljoncarter · 5 months

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do you have any recommendations for dick and jason (together or separate, both is fine) comics for someone who’s just starting to read them? i have some knowledge of the characters and batfam and i’ve read several batman comics, but i never really got into the robins-after-they-were-robins comis so i’d like to start with dick and jason…thank you so much :)

okay, this was meant to be a sort of joint answer to this & another ask that was someone interested in getting into comics for the first time asking for recs, but then i accidentally deleted it :'') so just. pretend all the references in here to being a first time comic reader make sense in response to this question (and sorry to whoever sent that other ask!!!)

i'm probably not the best person to ask if you're looking for more up to date stuff, since i lost interest in the bats when i got to the new 52, and it's been… a while since i actually read either of their comics. so i'm just all around not the one to be answering a bat-ask with any sort of authority, but! jason & dick were two of the first characters i read when i was first getting into comics, too, so i can say with some level of confidence that they're a pretty good place to start, and i think i can maybe provide a bit of perspective that way by steering you toward the things i found easy & away from the things that were difficult as a newer reader?

so basically, this is going to be an extremely biased rec list where the most important thing is essentially just whether or not i had a good time reading it when i was like 17 that i'm writing while hopped up on cold medicine. so i don't know. it might (??) be a little helpful for brand new people, but hardcore fans might wanna just... keep scrolling & not click to see the details on this one lol

for jason, there are, sadly (?), way fewer comics to have to sort through

i can't tell if you only wanted post-robin comics or not, but just in case, jason's robin run was from Batman #408 - 429. if you're just starting out, this might be a bit… boring in the middle. the most (arguably only) important issues are #408 - 411, #416 for our first post-crisis jason & dick interaction, and #424 - 429. the Batman: The Cult miniseries is also set during his robin era, and is probably one of my all-time favorite comics, so that's definitely worth a look, too

post-resurrection, the first thing jason technically appears in is Batman: Hush (Batman #608-619). i don't know if this will be seen as a horrendous take because i've never really been able to get a read on what the general consensus on this arc is, but i think it's… fine? kinda boring. as someone who was just getting into comics for the first time when i read it, it just lost me. too much going on, too many characters i didn't know or care about yet. granted, i'm kinda dumb with zero attention span, so you may well have a very different experience... but i just think it's worth mentioning. jason's only there from #617 - 618, so if it ends up being the same sort of trial for you that it was for my impatient ass, you can just skip it and come back later when you're more familiar with batman comics as a whole (like i did)

and with that: THE BIG ONE

Batman: Under the Hood runs from Batman #635 - 641, then a pause for unrelated issues of bruce running around gotham (strongly recommend skipping these), then picks back up with Batman #645 - 650 and Batman Annual #25. Batman Villains: Secret Files and Origins (2005) also happened somewhere in here. it was published right after Batman #640, i think. it doesn't actually matter because jason doesn't even show up, but he DOES have a little character page. i just think it's Neat, and i never see it getting mentioned anywhere else. so here you go. a mention

also while this arc was going on, geoff johns went rogue and dropped Teen Titans (2003) #29 to kickstart jason's character assassination before they'd even finished establishing his character to begin with. this issue is one of those things where discussion of it usually ends with the internet equivalent of someone throwing a chair, flipping a table, or trying to burn a house down, so… all i can really say is i, personally, hate everything about it and as far as i'm concerned, it's non-canon. never happened. i don't know who that man is, but the things he does in this issue are, for whatever reason, pretty important to the history of jason todd as a character, so it's still a necessary read

now, from here, i'm gonna need you to BUCKLE UP because you are about to be exposed to some weapons grade comic book nonsense. Brothers in Blood (Nightwing #118 - 124) was the first we really saw of jason after his comeback arc ended. it's where he and dick interact for the first time after his death, and it is absolutely cuckoo bananas insane. if you've never heard anything about this storyline before, i am BEGGING you to not look anything about it up before you read it. go into this blind. it's so much more than just a story. it's an experience. this is unironically one of my favorite arcs of all time. going into this with zero prior knowledge as someone brand new to comics as a medium & still very unfamiliar with all their eccentricities is still to this day one of my FAVORITE comic book reading experiences ever. some truly groundbreaking stuff here

the next time (as far as i'm aware) that we get dick & jason interacting, it's very briefly in Outsiders (2003) #44 - 46

the only other jason book i really remember enjoying was another of the classics, the Red Hood: Lost Days miniseries that explores the time between his resurrection and reappearance. this one is a favorite, too, but for the right reasons this time lol

as for dick, there's… a lot

i'm gonna try to whittle it down to just the all-time faves, but if you're up for tackling whole series, pretty much all of The New Teen Titans (and all its variations/retitles) are at the top of the list. it's a lot of issues, yes, but it's very self-contained and imo a very easy read, which is important when you're new

i can never quite put my finger on what, exactly, it is, but there's something about some comics that just makes them hard to read--bad composition or pacing issues or something. especially as a newer reader, i had a hard time understanding wtf was happening in a lot of books, but New Teen Titans is one of those books that just flows. your eye naturally knows exactly which panel to find next, characters are distinct & easy to tell apart even in crowded scenes, and you're never confused about who's saying what. the number of issues can be intimidating, but it's a really, really good place to start for new readers, including and especially if you're interested in nightwing. here's a full reading order, if you're interested in giving it a go!

it's almost impossible for me to cherrypick a few "most important" issues for dick because there's an important character moment nearly every other issue, but if i absolutely had to pick just a couple: The Judas Contract, (along with being arguably the most iconic arc) is where he stops being robin & takes on the identity of nightwing for the first time. it starts way back with deathstroke's introduction in The New Teen Titans (1980) #2, but doesn't really kick off proper until The New Teen Titans (1980) #39, and then just after this, the book was renamed to Tales of the Teen Titans, the arc continued in Tales of the Teen Titans #42 - 44, and then wrapped up in Tales of the Teen Titans Annual #3

later, on the dick & jason front, in The New Titans #55, we get a bit of jason action with dick finding out about his death in this issue & going to confront bruce about it (it does not go well), and then Batman: Year 3 (Batman #436 - 439) is an arc that is both a sort of re-exploration of dick's origin and about dick & bruce dealing with the aftermath of jason's death

Titans (1999) is always high on the list for me, but it's hard to really think of any specific issues for dick specifically, so here's just a general rec. maybe something to come back to a little later, since there are a lot of characters involved, and you're sort of expected to be at least a little familiar with them beforehand

i'm doing some truly extreme time skipping here, and i'm sure more devout dick fans will (validly) have Thoughts about this (i'm gonna link some better rec lists from more competent people, dw), but outside of The New Titans, i have no strong feelings about, like, anything that dick grayson did throughout the entirety of the 90s. sorry! my recommendation is to skip straight to the mid-2000s. Outsiders (2003) is one of my all-time faves in general and definitely one of my favorite takes on dick

Titans/Young Justice: Graduation Day is the thing that kicks off the Outsiders era, then Titans/Outsiders Secret Files (2003), and then starts Outsiders (2003). the first ~25 or so issues are full of the highest quality dick content

and, horrifying quite a few people, i'm sure, i am going to recommend jumping directly to devin grayson's run in Nightwing (1996). and then, insult to injury, i am ONLY going to recommend devin grayson's run

i'm sure a few people just closed the tab in a fit of rage, but just to preemptively defend myself here, this isn't necessarily a glowing endorsement of her take on dick (though i do like her run just fine & think she gets way more flack than she deserves, which is something i'm absolutely not interested in arguing about lol). it's just that i remember trying to read Nightwing (1996) as a newer reader, and i remember giving up on it multiple times because it just wasn't fun until someone finally recommended that i start with grayson. this is obviously a very subjective thing, but i think a big part of what made those early issues so difficult was just how much was going on around them

earlier issues crossover and tie-in and reference all these events that were happening elsewhere in the universe and just generally expect the reader to be able to roll with the punches a lot more, which is fantastic & exactly what you want when you've been reading comics for a while, but for someone still trying to get a feel for all of this, it just made things kinda frustrating and confusing and could be a pretty big turnoff. grayson's run is much more self-contained and easy to follow without needing that much prior knowledge (without going too far & ending up feeling detached & unrelated to the world around it). big disclaimer/warning that the portrayal of romani people here is… Not Good. to put it mildly

it starts with Nightwing (1996) #71 and runs with no crossovers all the way until War Games begins with Nightwing (1996) #96. i cannot in good conscience recommend that anyone read War Games, so… maybe (maybe.) just skim the tie-in issues and come back later if/when you're more invested in batman comics. otherwise, it might turn you off altogether, and that's… barely an exaggeration. it's pretty much exactly what happened to me when i stared my getting-into-comics-books journey with Nightwing (1996) very early on and made the mistake of actually trying to read it when i reached it. it may not be as bad in retrospect, but i'm biased and i hate it and i don't care. fuck War Games

Nightwing (1996) #101 - 106 are Nightwing: Year One, which retells dick's early days as nightwing & includes a revamped first meeting with jason. mixed opinions on this one all around, from what i understand, but here it is. after this, grayson's run ends right before Brothers in Blood starts in #118, and i can't really say much for the title past that point, as it was incredibly obvious nothing would ever top that masterpiece, and i decided to stop there

and i cannot, in good conscience, recommend anything past this point to a new reader. or anyone, really, but especially not a new reader. from this point on, things are messy, especially for jason. the only thing i really enjoy about post-Final Crisis batfam is damian's existence, and even that comes with its own set of asterisks because everything about this era was… something. it's not all bad, but i remember naively wandering into morrison's Batman & Robin as someone still new to all this, and all it did was make me question whether or not i should just call it quits & give up on comics as a medium right then and there lol

don't let that scare you away from those comics altogether, just don't be frustrated if you do give them a go & find yourself not understanding wtf is going on. no one knows wtf is going on half the time, especially where morrison is concerned. it's fine

and with that, i have talked WAY too much, so to close, let me offer you a few way more extensive recs from a few way more qualified people:

here's a general batfam reading guide

some dick recs: one, two, three

and jason recs: one, two, three

this post is sort of a big, rambling mess, but... hope it manages to help somehow! and for anyone else who manages to actually make it this far, feel free to add on if you think of anything else that might be helpful

#ask #anonymous #long post #comic recs #LORD this is such a mess #i have sick brain and it shows anon(s) i'm sorry #hopefully you can get... anything from this lol #and hopefully everyone else can forgive me for the things im saying while under the influence of all this dayquil

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tommybowefuneralattendee · 6 months

Text

my spreadsheet (public version)

so i have this spreadsheet that i use for prompts for this fandom, comprised of several prompt lists and the exact order of which is not easily publicly available. if you want to send me a prompt, send me a ship and a number between 1-725 (subject to change) and receive a sort of mystery box surprise of a fic. through the use of this list, you can see what prompts have already been done. if it’s for another ship, you can certainly send me the same prompt that was already used in another fic. if a prompt has been used three times, that prompt will be closed. thank you for your cooperation <3 listing under the cut!

possible progress statuses: prompted, in progress, editing, posted. if a prompt does not have one of these statuses, it has not been sent in thus far.

10.

11.

12.

13.

in progress || shaymien

14.

15.

16.

17.

prompted || amangela

18.

19.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

34.

35.

36.

prompted || nintendogs

37.

38.

39.

40.

41.

42.

43.

44.

45.

46.

47.

48.

49.

50.

51.

52.

53.

54.

55.

in progress || spommy

56.

57.

58.

59.

60.

61.

62.

63.

64.

65.

66. drawing circles and patterns on their chest

posted || shaymien || 6.3k, rated E

67.

68.

69.

70.

71.

72.

73.

74.

75.

76.

77.

78.

79.

80.

81.

82.

83.

84.

85.

86.

87.

88.

89.

90.

91.

92.

93.

94.

95.

96.

97.

98.

99.

100.

101.

102.

103.

104.

105.

106.

107.

108.

109.

110.

111.

112.

113.

114.

115.

116.

117. they have never raised their voice around you, always talks softly

posted || nintendogs || 28k, rated T

118.

119.

120.

121.

122.

123.

124.

125.

126.

127.

128.

129.

130.

131.

132.

133.

134.

135.

136.

137.

138.

139.

140.

141.

142.

143.

144.

145.

146.

147.

148.

149.

150.

151.

152.

153.

154.

155.

156.

157.

158.

159.

160.

prompted || nintendogs

161.

162.

163.

164.

165.

166.

167.

168.

169.

170.

171.

172.

173.

174.

175.

176.

177.

178.

in progress || shaymien

179.

180.

181.

182.

183.

184.

185.

186.

187.

188.

189.

190.

191.

192.

193.

194.

195.

196.

197.

198.

199.

200.

201.

202.

203.

204.

205.

206.

207.

208.

209.

210.

211.

212.

213.

214.

215.

216.

217.

218.

219.

220.

221.

222.

223.

224.

225.

226.

227.

228.

229.

230.

231.

232.

233.

234.

235.

236.

237.

238.

239.

240.

241.

242.

243.

244.

245.

246.

247.

248.

249.

250.

251. kisses to calm the other down

posted || tommien || 3.6k, rated T

252.

253.

254.

255.

256.

257.

258.

259.

260.

261.

262.

263.

264.

265.

266.

267.

268.

269.

270.

271.

272.

273.

274. "you're my everything."

posted || shayncer || 10.6k, rated E

275.

276.

277.

278.

279.

280.

281.

282.

283.

284.

285.

286.

287.

288.

289.

290.

291.

292.

293.

294.

295.

296.

297.

298.

299.

300.

301.

302.

303.

304.

305.

306.

307.

308.

309.

310.

311.

312.

313.

314.

315.

316.

317.

318.

319.

320.

321.

322.

323.

324.

325.

326.

327.

prompted || shaymien

328.

329.

330.

331.

332.

333.

334.

335.

336.

337.

338.

339.

340.

341.

342.

343.

344.

345.

346.

347.

348.

349.

350.

351.

352.

353.

354.

355.

356.

357.

358.

359.

360.

361.

362. hesitantly tugging the other's fabric of their shirt or sleeve, testing the waters

posted || spommy || 4.4k, rated T

363.

364.

365.

366.

367. wearing the others’ clothes so that it can at least feel like they’re hugging them, even for just a moment

posted || jackmien || 1.8k, rated G

368.

369.

370.

371.

372.

373.

374.

375.

376.

377.

378.

379.

380.

381.

382.

383.

384.

385.

386.

387.

388.

389.

390.

391.

prompted || spommy

392.

393.

394.

395.

396.

397.

398.

399.

400.

401. “Stop saying sorry! It’s always ‘I’m sorry’. When you really aren’t”

posted || nintendogs || 12.3k, rated E

402.

403.

404.

405.

406.

407.

408.

409.

410.

411.

412.

413.

414.

415.

416.

417.

418.

419.

420.

prompted || nintendogs

421.

422.

423.

424.

425.

426.

427.

428.

429.

430.

431.

432.

433.

434.

435.

436.

437.

438.

439.

440.

441.

442.

443.

444.

445.

446.

447.

448.

449.

450.

451.

452.

453.

454.

455.

456.

457.

458.

459.

460.

461.

462.

463.

464.

465.

466.

467.

468.

469.

470.

471.

472.

473.

474.

475.

476.

477.

478.

479.

480.

481.

482.

483.

484.

485.

486.

487.

488.

489.

490.

491.

492.

493.

494.

495.

496.

497.

498.

499.

500.

501.

502.

503.

504.

505.

506.

507.

508.

509.

510.

511.

512.

513.

514.

515.

516.

517.

518.

519.

520.

521.

522.

523.

524.

525.

prompted || shaymien

526.

527.

528.

529.

530.

531.

532.

533.

534.

535.

536.

537.

538.

539.

540.

541.

542.

543.

544.

545.

546.

547.

548.

549.

550.

551.

prompted || nintendogs

552.

553.

554.

555.

556.

557.

558.

559.

560.

561.

562.

563.

564.

565.

566.

567.

568.

569.

570.

571.

572.

573.

574.

575.

576.

577.

578.

579.

580.

581.

582.

583.

584.

585.

586.

587.

588.

589.

590.

591.

592.

593.

594.

595.

596.

597.

598.

599.

600.

601.

602.

603.

604.

605.

606.

607.

608.

609.

610.

611.

612.

613.

614.

615.

616.

617.

618.

619.

620.

621.

622.

623.

624.

625.

626.

627.

628.

629.

630.

631.

632.

633.

634.

635.

636.

637.

638.

639.

640.

641.

642.

643.

644.

645.

646.

647.

648.

649.

650.

651.

652.

653.

654.

655.

656.

657.

658.

659.

660.

661.

662.

663.

664.

665.

666.

prompted || spommy

667.

668.

669.

670.

671.

672.

673.

674.

675.

676.

677.

678.

679.

680.

681.

682.

683.

684.

685.

686.

687.

688.

689.

690.

691.

692.

693.

694.

695.

696.

697.

698.

699.

700.

prompted || shaymien

701.

702.

703.

704. washing the other’s body

posted || tommien || 3.1k, rated T

705.

706.

707.

708.

709.

710.

711.

712.

713.

714.

715.

716.

717.

718.

719.

720.

721.

722.

723.

724.

725.

prompt sources: one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen

#yeah i decided to make this post anyway sorry if it's pretentious but i'm pretentious so who is surprised #spreadsheet posting #mer rambles #also i guess? fine to reblog? i don't know why you would but it's cool

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