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ice-cap-k · 7 months

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Tough Love, or Love's Tough?

This one got oddly personal. Take that as you will.

Cross-posted to AO3 here: Tough Love, or Love's Tough?

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Doc was having a really good day.

The sun was shining, the pesky bird was finally leaving him alone, and the grind was going well. The Perimeter was coming along nicely. He had fallen into an easy rhythm, laying copper and sandstone in repeating intervals until it came as easily as breathing. His body moved with subconscious ease of long worn muscle memory. Only an occasional leafy decoration broke up the monotony, both in his movements and in the pattern of his build.

Step forward, build up a layer of bricks and blocks. Step forward, build up a layer of bricks and blocks. Step forward, build up a layer of bricks and blocks.

There was something soothing about the repetitive task. It gave him something to direct all his focus on. It left no room for intrusive thoughts pulling at the back of his mind or stress. All of that had washed away.

He was so absorbed in the grind, he didn’t hear the pop of rockets until too late.

“Hey Doc!”

Doc took a moment to stand up and blink as he processed the voice. “Ren?” He barely manages to turn and face his friend before warm arms wrap him into a tight hug. For an instant, Doc is glad to see the other hermit. Ecstatic, even. But that’s quickly overridden by his better sense of judgment and the rush of panic that comes with the unintentional hiss rising in his throat. Every muscle tenses against embrace. “REN! NO!”

Ren doesn’t let go right away. Instead, he buries his head deeper into Doc’s shoulder and tightens his grip against his friend’s shove. It takes both arms and two of the creeper hybrid’s legs to finally separate the two of them. The flashing is just starting as they stumble apart. That little bit of separation is all Doc needs, though. As soon as they’re apart, the flashing ebbs away. The hissing takes a bit longer to die down, settling into an amused rumble in his chest.

“Ren, you know not to do that,” he scolded, but there was no real bite in his words. “No touching.”

Ren stands tall with his arms crossed in front of his chest. One of his suspenders hangs low on his shoulder where Doc had accidentally knocked it askew in the need to get away. There’s a pair of elytra hanging from his back. The edges of the wingtips are just barely visible as they stick out from behind him. Doc noted that he hadn’t even bothered taking them off before going in for the tackle. The crooked smile on the dog hybrid’s face makes it clear just how seriously he took the warning. That being, ‘not very.’

Doc chuffed, the rumbling emanating from deep in his chest as if to display his dissatisfaction.

He made a good show of being bothered, but in all honesty, Doc didn’t mind that much. This interaction was as time tested and true as their friendship. The two of them had gone through countless iterations of it over the years to varying degrees of success, depending on who you asked. If you asked Doc, he would consider a contactless free day a success. If you asked Ren, he would consider hugging the half-creeper until they both went up in a fiery blaze as a win, especially if their stuff wasn’t destroyed in the blast.

Such was the way of their natures. It’s surprising how well they get along, honestly. There’s so many ways they were opposite to each other. Doc was analytical, introverted, and often came off cold and callous. Ren was impulsive, outgoing, and wore his heart on his sleeve. A creeper and a dog. They were an unlikely pair, but neither man would hesitate to say the other was their best friend.

One thing they just couldn’t seem to get past, though, was physical contact. Doc could understand Ren’s point of view. He really could. His best friend was a dog-hybrid, and with that came the boundless desire for close proximity and touch. It was his love language like it was a golden retriever’s. Ren thrived on hugs and bumping into sides, jabbing elbows and arms tossed around shoulders. There was a part of Doc that wanted to give him that.

But he just couldn’t.

“Sorry dude,” Ren says with a shrug. “You know me. Gotta take what I can get.”

His ears perked on top of his head. There was a hopeful look in his eyes as he reached out to pat Doc’s shoulder, but this time Doc was ready for him. He flinched out of the way, steering clear of any physical contact. Ren didn’t look disappointed when his fingers met empty air. Instead, he shrugged it off. Ren knew that he had already pushed his luck too far. “Anyway, it’s good to see you, dude. I brought you that oak wood you wanted. Don’t worry about the charge on this batch.”

Same old Ren. “Ahh. You didn’t have to leave the mooshroom island for this. I could have come for it. That’s ehm… that’s perfect for what I am working on. Thank you.” He reaches out and takes the shulker box Ren holds out to him. It’s heavy in his palms. Ren must have filled it to capacity. It brings Doc’s own smile back to his face. He could always count on Ren. Now he didn’t have to spend hours on a tree farm.

“Dude, no worries. Ask me any time. Seriously. Actually…” He hunches his shoulders, shrugging as his eyes wander up to the sky. Doc can just make them out over the rim of Ren’s sunglasses. He almost looks sheepish, but Doc has learned how to read Ren’s visual cues over the years. His body language broadcasts so much more than his facial expressions. There’s a hopeful wag to his tail. The subtle shift from foot to foot where Ren is clearly too excited to stand still. An alertness to his ears, trained solely on Doc in anticipation of a reply to come. “I just finished restocking my disc shop and I’ve got some extra time on my hands. Want some help around the Perimeter?”

The smile on Doc’s face widens. “You brought all this, and now you want to help me with even more work?” he asks with a chuckle.

“Yeah! I thought we could hang out while we go at it. I’ve got some new Decked Out strategies I’d like to run by you.”

“Ah. I’m, ehm… I’m not sure how much help I would be but I wouldn’t mind the company, dude.”

Ren’s tail picked up its pace. “Certainly no worse than me.”

“Well, come on. I’ll give you some copper. Think you can repeat this pattern?”

“Without a doubt.”

Doc handed out a shulker’s worth of copper and the two got to work. Doc placed the sandstone, Ren the copper. Doc placed the sandstone, Ren the copper. Doc placed the sandstone, Ren the copper. It was a similar slip into a repeating rhythm like Doc had done before, but the work was going twice as fast now that he had company.

The conversation started on Decked Out. As they climbed the layers of the build, Ren discussed possible options to prevent Crank and what cards they were gunning for. Although, at this point they’d be happy to get their hands on any of the high cost cards.

Doc told Ren about the layout of the latest level he had in his head. Between the two of them, they covered the floors in detail to the point where they almost could draw up a map of the lower levels of the dungeon. Tango would probably frown on that, though.

They had just moved on to discussing Hazard in the game. “That’s why I’m working on my parkour skills,” Ren was saying from above Doc’s head. The light tink tink tink of copper tiles being laid could be heard in between the gaps of his words, loud enough that Doc could hear it, but only when Ren wasn’t talking over it. “If we can train up to tackle some of those traps, we’d be flying through the dungeon like Hypno.”

“I don’t know, dude. I’m not really good at parkour…” Doc had switched from sandstone to copper as well. He had propped himself up in the gaps between the previously built base of the wall. Four clawed feet dug grooves into the soft stone as he shaped his own set of tiles into a goat’s head. “Maybe we could talk to the other hermits and see if anyone has a good card against hazard instead?”

“Maybe. But I’m gonna level with you, dude. I don’t think anyone with that good of a card is going to trade with us for-whoa!”

Copper tiles clattered. Doc looked up, ready to ask what had happened when a large red and blue blur fell past him. “Ren!!”

Without even thinking, Doc dropped the copper in his hands and reached out with his bionic arm. Redstone pistons hissed and whizzed, activating the pneumatics in his finger joints. They clamped together just in time to wrap around Ren’s ankle. Gravity and momentum already had a hold of Ren, and they fought back. The arm groaned, but held sturdy under the backlash of holding his friend up. His organic shoulder wrenched painfully in its socket under the weight. Doc just barely managed to bite back a small cry of pain.

Ren, however, whimpered.

Doc held Ren there from his ankle. Between the pressure of the mechanics on his leg and the blood rushing to his head, Ren probably wasn’t feeling too good either. They were both breathing heavily, coming down from the rush of panic. The dog hybrid stared back up at him with big blue eyes, visible now that the sunglasses were hanging down over his forehead. “Uh, thanks man.” He reached into his pocket to pull out a rocket with shaking hands. The elytra on his back flipped outward, ready to catch the wind.

Doc let out a deep breath. Some of the tension left his shoulders with it. “Don’t mention it.”

“You could have just let me drop.”

“I could have.”

“But you didn’t.”

“I did not.”

“Why?”

In hindsight, that was a simple question. As shaken as Ren was by the fall, he did still have his elytra on. Even if he didn’t pull his rockets out in time he still could have easily switched to a gentle glide. “Because I panicked when I saw you fall,” he mumbled. He was trying not to look at the metallic appendages still wrapped around Ren’s ankle. Phantom sensations felt like goosebumps crawling up his arm. There was no skin to form them, but just the thought was enough to make it feel like the prosthetic wasn’t there anymore. As if he could actually feel the contact. That false sensation was already starting to cause a tightness at the back of his throat where a hiss was threatening to escape.

“And you’re touching me…?”

“Technically I am not,” Doc clarified, flexing the fingers in his redstone hand. It took a bit of mental willpower to keep steam from leaking out between his teeth. “And I don’t think I can pull you up, so are you ready to fly now?”

“Aw… Can’t you at least try pulling me up? At least let me grab onto the ledge so we can have a moment where you look down on me and something stirs in your heart and you realize you have it in you all along and that I’m worth changing for and saving. Then you can pull me up.”

“Ugh. You and your roleplay. Ehm.. Is this another Star Wars thing? That sounds a lot like the Luke and Darth Vader scene.”

Ren took off his lopsided shades with his free hand and winked. “Something like that.”

Doc rolled his eyes and let go of Ren.

There was a startled yelp below as Ren began plummeting, but it quickly turned to giggles as a rocket fired. Doc watched his friend right his trajectory, angling the set of wings so that the curve of their folds sent him rolling through the air back up to Doc. He landed on one of the copper ledges he had just finished placing. “Speaking of which,” he said, pocketing his rockets once more. “We should do a movie night again. I feel like it’s been ages.”

The creeper-hybrid loosened his grip on the sides of the sandstone so he could lower himself onto a nearby platform and give his legs a break. Curved horns bumped against the mural’s outer lining as he leaned back. “That’s a good idea. We can head back to my main base and set something up there.”

“Right now?”

Doc’s good eye went to the sun that was starting to sink in the sky. It was late evening, and they had been at it for hours. Then he looked down at the bundle of copper the two of them had dropped floating on the water lining the perimeter floor. Getting back into that rhythm wouldn’t be easy after that little scare, but he wasn’t leaving that copper to vanish. “Yeah. We got a lot done and it’s getting late. Thank you, by the way, for your help. It went a lot faster than I expected.”

“No problem, man.” Ren was all teeth and wide smiles as he stepped off his ledge and dropped onto the one Doc was standing on so they could look eye to eye. “It’s been fun. And now we’re going to have even more fun. Let’s fire up some popcorn, cause it’s MOVIE NIGHT!”

“Yes, well, you go on ahead. I need to pick up that copper and store it away for later.”

“Sure thing dude, but that means I get to pick the movie for tonight.” Ren pointed with both index fingers at Doc��s chest, shimmying his shoulders for added effect while his eyebrows shot up. It was a question disguised as a statement. Ren wouldn’t dare move until Doc gave the word.

“Yeah,” Doc said with a smirk. “Go ahead and knock yourself out.”

“You won’t regret it, Doc!”

Before the creeper hybrid can protest, Ren leans in and wraps an arm around his shoulder in a half-shake, half-hug before leaping off the mural platform. He doesn’t even look back to see the light pulsing under Doc’s skin that gradually begins to fade away as soon as he lets go.

Oh Ren. Doc snorts a bit of steam out his nose, squares his shoulders, and steps off the ledge himself. It’s a long drop down to the water below, and it will be an even longer flight back to the closest thing his base has to a ‘living room.’ That should give Ren plenty of time to have the TV and popcorn ready. Doc had a feeling he knew exactly what kind of movie his friend was in the mood for.

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Renbob is sitting on the couch in their little van. There isn’t much room here, but Doc agreed to this. He wasn’t normally claustrophobic, but this was hard on both of them. Especially Doc. Sure, Renbob said he cared about giving Doc some space, but he was clearly embracing the idea of a ‘togetherness’ mindset this season a little too much for Doc’s comfort.

“I’m fine sleeping outside,” Doc insisted. “It’s not like it’s the first time I’ve ever done it.”

“Oh, It’s not so bad. So what if I accidentally bump against you once or twice?”

“I care, Ren. And you’ll care when you roll over in your sleep and throw an arm over me. I’m pretty sure you’ll care then when I blow the van up.”

“But what about adventure, my dude?”

“I’ll go anywhere with you, Ren. Adventure is still on the table, but I need to figure out a different system than this.”

“Alright.” There’s disappointment crackling beneath the surface in Ren’s voice. He can hear it, despite Ren’s feeble attempt to cover it up with a cough. “You’re the man, Doc. I have faith in you. If anyone can figure out a way to make this work best for the both of us, it’s you.”

Doc turns, and when he blinks, Ren is dressed as smartly as he has ever seen him. He is also considerably younger than Doc has seen him in years. They’re standing in the center of the floor to a familiar build.

“We actually did it, Doc!” Ren was saying. “You and me together. I look forward to working together as future business partners.”

“Well, I don’t think I could have done it myself,” Doc said with an easy smile. He found himself leaning into a nearby table. The doors flung open and hermits started streaming in with diamonds at the ready.

“Ah, time to greet our guests.” He raises his voice, and tosses one arm around Doc’s shoulder. “Welcome everyone, to the Hermit Stock Exchange!”

Doc freezes, a low hiss rising from deep down within him. Ren pulls his arm away in a rush. A look of guilt crosses over his eyes, as if he felt bad for overstepping. Doc doesn’t notice the sheepish look, though. He’s more concerned about the way his shoulder feels oddly cold without Ren’s arm there anymore.

“Why hello there! Nice to meet you!”

Doc blinks, and the scenery has changed again. Him and his best friend are standing in the middle of nowhere. Some naturally formed forest with a stony patch that had no shape or value to it. Other hermits were scurrying through the trees and over rocks, gathering up materials to start building basic tools.

Ren looks even younger. There’s such a genuine smile and excited glint to the stranger’s eyes that Doc almost believes they actually mean what they say. Then they reach forward to grab his hand and he nearly jumps out of his skin.

“What are you doing,” he hisses, yanking his hand back. He can already see the pulsing light beneath the surface through the back of his hand. It itches where they touched him, a strange crawling sensation he wasn’t used to.

“Shaking your hand. Normally I’d go in for a hug, but I was told I have to tone it down a bit.”

Doc couldn’t believe what he was hearing. The sheer casualness in their tone, as though it was only natural.

“Who on Earth thinks it’s a good idea to shake hands with a creeper?”

“Oh, there’s no need to be worried about that. Clearly you’re different.”

“But-”

“Here. I’ll show you I don’t mind.”

With that, Ren launched himself at Doc with open arms and pulled him into a tight embrace.

Rendog was blown up by Docm77

Docm77 blew up

Doc’s eyes flew open.

Return of the Jedi was still playing on the big screen: the third installment of their especially long movie night turned sleep over.

That was one hell of a dream. What made it worse, though, was that it was real. All of it. He had brushed off Ren over and over again since the day they met.

Doc had been a loner by nature for years before meeting Ren. A life of solitude was normal for a creeper. People didn’t really entertain the idea of getting close to one. Receiving a hug still made the redstoner’s brain shut down a little whenever it happened. It was like being at someone’s mercy, knowing they have a hold of you and at any time could do anything at any point. Despite that, you don’t want to lash out because he could hurt them. He didn’t want to hurt someone whom he cares about. The need to “disengage” at odds with the need to “don’t act out” goes round and round in Doc’s head like a feedback loop, paralyzing him. He didn’t like it when he didn’t feel in control of himself.

It’s foolish. All of it. Doc understands that, but it’s easy to say ‘that’s not what’s happening’ until he’s wrapped up in a hug and the conundrum sets in.

Even if he was one to generally enjoy hugs (and just to be clear, he wasn't), it wouldn’t be enough to override creeper instincts. Creeper’s explode when they get close to a player. Simple as that. Doc was a hybrid, which helped dampen some of these instincts. He can get close to players, and with a little practice he eventually became able to manage some physical contact. A little fist bump or high five every now and then was doable. A hand shake is doable now, even if it wasn’t back then. Doc could keep himself in check long enough for something small like that.

He must have fallen asleep on the couch. The way his muscles protested when he went to move made that clear. He was too stiff. But the cushions were so cozy and warm, and Ren had been nice enough to toss a blanket over his four legs bundled up beneath him.

Doc moved to stretch out his rear set of legs when he noticed an odd weight against his side. Still feeling groggy, he rubbed the sleep from his eyes and twisted to get a better look. There, curled up against his side, was Ren. The dog hybrid was literally curled up into himself, taking the smaller portion of the couch. His back was pressed into Doc’s flank, and his tail was draped over Doc’s back. Doc couldn’t make out his friend’s eyes behind the sunglasses still resting on his face, but looking at the steady rise and fall of his ribcage, Doc guessed Ren had fallen asleep too.

Fallen asleep… touching Doc.

It took a moment for the realization to sink in, and when it did the hiss started rising in his throat once more. It came involuntarily, no matter how tightly Doc tried to clamp his mouth shut.

Ren’s ears twitched at the noise. Before Doc can say or do anything else, Ren rolled over to put at least a foot of space between the two of them. He yawned and pulled off his shades. Bleary eyes blink at Doc as the hissing dies in his throat. “Sorry man. It’s been a while, so I thought I’d try the van trick. Are you okay?”

Steady breaths. Deep breaths. Doc’s side feels cold now.

“Yes, I’m fine,” Doc says with a nod. “It’s… It’s ok. That’s fine.”

It was fine, until he woke up. It was a little trick Ren had come up with back when they were exploring the world by van. The trick Ren came up with when Doc couldn’t think of a solution, because to Ren, the solution was natural. Keep a distance during daylight hours when work needed to be done and it was easier to avoid, and wait until Doc was asleep to stop worrying about all of that. Because when Doc was asleep, physical contact actually made him purr. At least, according to Ren it did. There was no way for Doc to verify it himself, but there had to be some truth to those words. After all, he hadn’t hissed or blown up in his sleep yet.

“I can move if you want…”

“No,” Doc breathed, leaning into the back cushion of the couch. It really was warm and inviting. “Just let me go back to sleep real quick.”

He caught sight of Ren’s tail swishing back and forth, silently glad that Doc wasn’t shooing him away. When he ends up falling asleep again, Ren will be back against his side. It’s the closest thing Doc can give him to physical affection. And that silent acceptance, despite his own nature, was Doc’s love language back to his best friend.

#whumptober 2023 #prompt no. 17 #“Touch aversion”#hermitcraft #creative writing #temporary past death #docm77 #rendog #docm77 & rendog #platonic affection #differences in affection #cuddles(?)#I don't know guys I don't normally write cute moments

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fumifooms · 1 year

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Analysis of Laios’ succubus and theories on what it means - deep dive on Laios’ desires in human connections

Laios’ succubus is a very odd incident. I have some particular interpretations of why it was Marcille, and why things went down the way they did.

We know that a succubus shows what one desires, stated in canon as “an alluring form”; yes often in a romantic or sexual sense, as seen with Chilchuck’s succubus being entirely set on looks and seduction, meanwhile Marcille’s does have a focus on chivalrous noble demeanor as well, showing romantic behavior and personality. BUT with Izutsumi we also see that the liaison doesn’t have to be romantic or sexual at all, either, in Izutsumi’s case it’s a familial bond she craves. So perhaps we can say that the succubus exploits a desire based on connection, in whichever form that takes. Marcille wants an emotional connection foremost(which is also reflected in how it’s a character she knows very well and not a stranger. Perhaps romantic.), Chilchuck wants pleasure(a simple pleasure not unlike alcohol, perhaps such a connection is free of the more risky or unpleasant parts of a relationship, he doesn’t have to worry or to think and can just let himself go. Sexual.), Izutsumi wants a mother figure that can offer her warmth and comfort with who she doesn’t have to be tough (Familial), and I believe Laios’ is platonic and centered on his desire to have people with who he belongs and can be himself with…

But Laios’ case is more complex, it has layers. The thing is, even if Laios wanted to have someone able to turn him into a monster—which it didn’t even have to be, could straight up have just been a monster with such powers—, it didn’t have to be someone he knew. You could say the succubus wanted to disarm Laios’ suspicions with someone he knew and that was nearby, but the succubus seem very direct in every other case, simply appearing with someone’s greatest appearance even though both Marcille and Chilchuck were fully on guard and the succubi knew it. "Believability" isn’t an important factor. No, his succubus being someone he knew was important. It being Marcille was important.

There’s a TLDR at the end of this if you want to cut it short. For everyone else, strap in everyone, if you don’t know me hi I’m Fumi and I made this 3k words long analysis and theorizing bc I am autistic much like the character in question and I think this is both fascinating and has a lot to say. In this I offer both platonic and romantic reasonings and I do go rather in depth in Laios’ psychology and relationships to dissect what ever could this damn cryptic event MEAN. Spoilers for the succubus chapters obviously and also the last few arcs of the series so… Spoilers for the series as a whole!

—

So attraction wise it’s kinda unsure where Laios stands. He does sort of logically list off aesthetically pleasing traits of the orc’s wives, but besides that… Not really, or he never voices it anyways. He and Marcille never share like “omg you’re pretty” moments or anything. Senshi gets more compliments than either of them through the series lmfao. Maybe Laios is asexual, maybe he simply doesn’t show outwardly his attraction much or even maybe isn’t self-aware about it, regardless… Laios HAS implied preference for Marcille’s looks in the past. With the orcs, he said that “tallmen like long ears”. Laios’ shapeshifter of Marcille has her hair down just like her succubus, which by Kui is explained to be because she had it down when she revived Falin and it really marked him, though it could also be interesting to see it as his mental image of her as her most authentic self, I’ve seen it theorized that it’s a preference too but I think that’s disproven. But of course the most damning evidence itself… The succubus scene. It could have been anyone else in the party, certainly Senshi shares Laios’ interest in monsters much more already. We shouldn’t discredit the way Laios was blushing madly once she revealed she was a monster, that made her more attractive to Laios for sure, but he still wouldn’t have reacted that way if it was just anyone. The contexts are very different, but we can compare it to how Laios reacted when Lycion turned into a wolf man in front of him for instance. Laios certainly doesn’t act that way with Izutsumi- and it’s confirmed like a page later that he does see Izutsumi as a monster already. AND!! Laios starts blushing madly BEFORE she says that she can turn him into a monster- and we can safely assume that the blush isn’t out of simple fluster but out of desire/infatuation since he clearly wants her to bite him in the next page and his blush does not relent at all.

There’s something we could say about Laios’ liking of Marcille being born out of companionship rather than aesthetic attraction, on familiarity and intimacy. As members of the same party they’ve spent a lot of time together and we’ve seen that Laios trusts in her and relies on her for her skillset and avice. If Laios’ interest in her developped more naturally and gradually, valuing the familiar bond they have, I don’t see why he’d be acting all blushy and lovesick every time they interact or whatever, which is the explanation I have for Marcille genuinely being Laios’ most alluring form but him not freezing at the sight of it. That could also be a reason why he physically rejects succubus!Marcille instinctively, because something about her feels off or different (which is sorta the most direct interpretation of the scene, since Laios’ first thought is that it can’t be Marcille and must be a monster).

[Edited in: Oh my god. The picture above is the last page of the dullahan chapter, chapter 57, a chapter that centers around Laios and Marcille’s relationship through flashbacks as Laios is on the brink of death and sees his life flashing before his eyes (he remembers how they first met, etc, which is also interesting to note that on the brink of death he reminisces about her the most). The last page of that chapter, more or less the thesis of the chapter in which we see Laios opens up about the real reason he and Falin go dungeon diving to her after them having a rough meeting but she turns out to also have an interest in dungeons, has Laios go "she starts out frowning but she ends up smiling! Wether its’s about eating monsters or about me :)”. That chapter is the one right before th succubus chapters. Laios’ most alluring form wasn’t “just” Marcille, it’s a SMILING Marcille. Which is why the succubus had such a weird and off demeanor right away (which gets knocked off once it doesn’t work and becomes a more Marcille-like Marcille)! It was only focused on smiling because it was the angle it was working from.

Oh my god it makes sense. It’s a direct narrative link, it’s as explicitly put with its story structure without Kui just stating it, besides, you know, the many times Laios says how precious her smile is to him. He’s like “I love her smile” and right next chapter the succubus is like “yes this is what he likes seeing most”. But… This also does mean that the focus might be less romantic, like Marcille’s significance doesn’t diminish, but then the alluring form might be less about her and more about the smile itself. About having a friend who looks at him like that, about someone who smiles after eating monster dishes or surpassing obstacles together… Or it can actually be so much more romantic. Like, maybe the smiling Marcille doesn’t work is because well, it’s not like Marcille, she wouldn’t just be smiling like that and behave like that (esp since his musing is about how her smiles are sort of “earned”, that she doesn’t smile right away but it’s sort of like a rewarding sight when she does). So then the most alluring form of Marcille doesn’t work because she doesn’t convincingly BEHAVE like her. His most alluring form isn’t a Marcille-lookalike, it’s her as a whole. More on the succubus shifting/switching in its approach later.]

Anyways.

Where was I. Ah yes, “It could have been anyone else in the party, certainly Senshi shares Laios’ interest in monsters much more already.” But then that’s the point isn’t it. I think Laios’ succubus being Marcille is because his wish isn’t so much focused on her, or on becoming a monster, but on not being alone. On being understood. On having others finally share his interest. On not only becoming a monster, but having someone to share that with. A trusted friend, a companion, or a lover, it matters little in my interpretation, the bedrock of it stays the same. And this is why it’d be someone he already knew instead of someone new, because it’d defeat the point, and it was maybe Marcille because she’s the most vocal about finding monsters disgusting: it’d have finally been a shift in her that she now liked monsters. And again this brings back to when he talks about her smile, when he says that she starts out unhappy with eating monsters, but ends up smiling by the end of it. Her smile itself represents that though first impression or reflexive dislike, someone can turn around and end up liking it anyways, it’s hope for his interests to be liked and perhaps for him to be lovable as well, that it’s possible to be accepted.

But I do think it would be a mistake to say that there’s absolutely no romantic interest, that it’s plainly platonic or another kind of interest misplaced and idealized in her. What we saw with the other succubus is that they 100% act in ways that the person desires, sure Izutsumi’s start attacking after a while, but that was after pushing them over the edge, and succubus Marcille wasn’t being agressive nor did she have a reason to be (even when she could have with Laios’ choking, she didn’t turn to violence, so she was 100% still in seduction mode). Ultimately the goal of the succubus is to make physical contact to be able to suck their essence, but the way they go about achieving that is tailored to the individual’s desire, Marcille’s kissed her hand and Izutsumi’s offered a hug. The succubus can identify and embody complex desires, often subconscious ones, shown with Izutsumi’s. They go straight to it without complex subterfuge either. Chilchuck’s succubi were very direct because that’s what he wanted, Marcille’s was courtly because that’s what she wanted, Izutsumi’s offered motherly comfort and affection because that’s what she wanted, and Laios’ is Marcille attempting to kiss him. Let that sink in.

Laios why are you choking the supposed key to your heart?

Ok so the theory that Laios’ desire is to have a deeper companionship from an existing companion is pretty tame and surface level I’d say, but strap in… The way Laios reacted violently to Marcille trying to kiss him is VERY interesting. The first thing he thinks about is that she isn’t Marcille so she must be a succubus, then confusion at to why it’s her. He’s even afraid of what the others would think, feeling… Shame? With how he imagines Marcille would be horrified that he likes her that way. Fear of rejection?

But no no, what interests me is the shift that the succubus makes. It seemed very confident at first, went straight in, but when overpowered shifted the direction it was going in- shifted from a desire for Marcille to a desire for a monster Marcille and whatever deeper desire that hides. But??? Succubi did not make mistakes as to what someone wanted thus far, possibly that has never ever happened before by human records. Could the succubus truly have miscalculated what Laios desires? It’d be hard to imagine that the succubus would misunderstand what type of companionship someone wished for or what approach to take, since it’s done complex cases before too, Izutsumi being very much in denial before it & at first. In Izutsumi’s case, even with her complex feelings over it and her two souls desiring different things, the succubus did not miss its mark, and ultimately it was having a second soul for who the succubus wasn’t alluring that allowed her not to be frozen to the spot. But with Laios the succubus fully switches strategy.

The thing is that succubi don’t usually need to switch strategies, because the form and approach they take always work and always leave the victim frozen. Izutsumi bypassed this because of her two souls, but was still frozen and struggling to reject the succubus at first. And yet? Laios did. A succubus’ victim is supposed to be instantly frozen, and yet Laios acts on instinct and defensively agressive as soon as his reaction time allows. And well, it’s hard to really come to a logical conclusion as to why, since we have no idea of what rules can override a succubus’ temptation besides multiple souls… C’mon regular Marcille can’t be the winged lion/kenksuke’s desire bc of the loose hair being Laios’ mind-Marcille we’ve gone over this /hj Although, since it’s confirmed that the winged lion was watching with the dream Laios gets induced right after, maybe he’s what allowed Laios to be moving? It’s possible that it’d have frozen him otherwise, even if Laios with his full rationale wouldn’t have accepted the kiss faced with supernatural allure he might have gotten paralysis from being overwhelmed, similarly to how if Chilchuck had his full rationale he wouldn’t allow a woman like his succubus to kiss him (he’s always stayed faithful to his wife even after 4 years of separation, give the guy his earned credit). Getting somewhat offtopic, but something to say about how if that’s the case once again the theme of ‘irrational desire you crave vs what you truly want/need’ that is present throughout the manga would be reflected.

My best guess however on why Laios reacted so quickly and forcefully is: trauma. The more recent arcs with Laios suggest that Laios has deep-seated trauma over humans. He dislikes humans as a whole, that was like, pretty much stated, though perhaps exaggerated. As a kid he fantasized about monsters wiping out human towns. We know Laios has been ostracized for most of his life by others, in his village and in the military, and beyond social rejection it’s shown he got beaten in group too and it was implied that it happened regularly. But damn, disliking humans to the point of wanting to be a monster and murderous genocidal reclusive envies and all of that stuff? That is massive trauma, massive identity & belonging issues and hint at massive trust issues.

So then, the negative reaction could be because of Laios’ deep trauma with humans. Because of trauma getting activated, not due to a miscalculation on the succubus’ part but due to a contradicting dislike of the desire that makes the form inherently and straight out of the gate un-alluring, Laios’ repression being so strong that he’s able to affect his own desires in that way, or an instinctive defense response to the trigger (a human). Even though Laios hides it well, once again recent arcs (and some other moments) make it clear that Laios still has some innate dislike of humans, which in canon is a term that all races like elves fit in. He has a bias against them, perhaps even an innate distrust of them. Who knows how aware he is of it, or how much control and will he has over it. What if Laios reacting agressively to it was his defense mode tied to this kicking in, a survival and security instinct, stopping any possibility of Laios wanting a romantic relationship with a human? Any chance of that human getting close and being hurt by it, either rejected or stabbed in the back? It’d then make sense if Laios is unaware and doesn’t understand his attraction to Marcille then, if it’s a sort of self-made blockage, denial. And that’d make full sense with how, when Marcille is suddenly a monster, then all of Laios’ reluctance is gone and he’s fully enthralled, all that it took was taking away that one blockage for Laios to be utterly charmed. It takes away the trigger element, humans, and replaces it for something safer. A desire for connections, but connections with people that are ‘safe’, people who also don’t fit in with society, who are part of his interest in monsters, who would accept and understand him. I think that Laios does desire human connections, specifically, but can’t allow himself to pursue them either from conscious or unconscious trauma, so though he does desire it he can’t accept that he does/can’t accept the relationship even if it’s handed to him on a silver platter.

Conclusion

The succubus’ shift could then be either that it switched from one wish, a wish for Marcille, to another, a wish for companionship in monster-liking, or that it stayed on the same fundamental wish, but had to improvise with the new information (that Laios is human-averse)(not bc it didn’t exist previously but bc it wasn’t manifested) to take out of the equation the thing that was holding Laios back (from giving in).

But well, the fact that the rest of the party is included does lean towards the former, but in any case that doesn’t erase all I’ve spoken about, all about how Marcille is 100% the focus of this whole thing. It could still be a bit of both. But it is interesting that he worries about the party’s reaction to seeing his succubus being Marcille, and when she shifts into monster Marcille he *still* worries about the others: “b-but what about the others?” He’s a mess, with his most alluring form seducing him, and he still has a shred of resistance in him to question how the others would react, and it’s only when she says that they’re already monsters too that he truly gives in. Is he really so afraid of ostracization? Of losing the people he cares about due to judgement? Then the mention of the others in the party can simply be something the succubus added on top to unlock another “blockage”, the same way she added Marcille being a monster on top of the basic premise of Marcille; Take out the immediate dismissal of humans first, and then the fear of loss and judgement from other friends so Laios can finally stop worrying and give in. That worry/framing I’d say makes the latter more credible, because it’s not the premise of the alluring form but an extra.

In the end, like the recent arcs kind of spell out, the thing central to Laios’ character is less so a love for monsters and moreso a dislike for humans, and this is what this puts on full display.

Laios’ most alluring form is Marcille, a human that doesn’t understand his interests and thus him, and regardless of everything else that Marcille is, that is so traumatic to him that all of his being immediately rejects it.

—

Thanks for coming to my ted talk! I’ve spent so much time thinking about this and wording and rewording this same train of thought, also it’s the end of my college semester and I’m going crazy

Tldr: My personal fav theory for Laios’ succubus is that Laios really values Marcille’s smile a ton like it’s often mentioned, and that’s what his most alluring form centers on. I’ve got a ton of different interpretation on the why it’d go for a kiss? Since it tailors its approach to the person’s desires, but obviously something goes wrong with Laios’, which is really interesting because even with Izutsumi who resists because she has 2 souls so one part of her can always remain unaffected, the succubus hit bullseye on her most alluring forms. But regardless of that, I think his desire for Marcille (either her or what she represents, wether as a platonic ideal or something else) isn’t wrong/untrue perse, but that Laios has such a complex with humans and intimacy and connecting with others that his defense mode kicks in and that’s when the succubus has to shift into a different, safer desire: one that doesn’t involve humans but that still shows connections and acceptance and belonging. Also Laios realizes that it isn’t Marcille when she goes in for the kiss, which if his allure for her is based on familiarity since they’re friends and all could make sense that it’d break him away from it, or since it’s a liking based on familiarity he doesn’t freeze, or maybe it’s because the winged lion has its eye on him. I think that’s so much more likely with how Kui makes even her jokes be character moments or at least consistent, and also with the tension of the scene, than just the scene being a gag about how Marcille doesn’t mean much to Laios actually.

I think there’s a lot to be said about why Marcille is special to Laios, why her smile means something to him, etc, and I don’t think saying Marcille is special to him is exaggeration or reaching at all. Laios, Marcille and Falin are the golden trio, she’s the deuteragonist, she’s the only other character in the main party whose goal in going back for Falin is Falin and who has a bond with her and Laios outside of being coworkers, in post-canon they live together, happily, in the anime’s ending they’re emphased on by dining out all three together... I could go on. Marcille has the benefit of being very trusted by Laios, not only with the time they’ve spent together but how she was Falin’s friends first, the person he himself feels so protective of and has been so consistently ostracized throughout her life. Marcille represents a positive odd one out that’s like, the good example of "humanity can be good and safe and warm actually". Which is a big reason why imo Marcille is like, the secondary protag and with Falin they form the golden trio. She’s central to the story in many ways including making Laios see that humanity is worth saving and sticking with, but that’s a topic for another analysis. One such reason is how his first meeting with her went: it started really badly but ended with her coming around and unexpectedly sharing their interest in dungeons, which made him and Falin open up about the real reason they go dungeon diving, perhaps for the first time. There is just so much that goes into it but Laios seems generally very expectant of rejection: in the climax chapters after he transformed back as a human and was hiding out in the woods, pre-canon in an extra where we see him battling himself on if he should suggest eating monsters or not. But another one, the one I truly want to bring up in this post, is how genuine Marcille is! And funnily enough, how dramatic she is, and how her elf ears change position depending on her emotions. Like, let me compare her affectionately to a dog for a second, but dogs move their ears and use whole body language to communicate, and I think that part of Marcille, really strong emoting, with her ears and body language on top of her often dramatic facial expressions, reassure him. Like ok, maybe he can’t tell when Shuro and Kabru would lie to him, but Marcille? She wears her heart on her sleeve and her feelings on her whole self. And that takes away some of the stress and trauma he has with humans, explains why her smiles would “put him at ease”, doesn’t it?

I don’t remember wether I’ve mentioned this somewhere or just in my reblog linked at the end of the post, but while at first I thought the succubus going for a kiss on the lips heavily implied a romantic desire in Laios, now I have a couple different theories on why the succubus would have gone for that approach. I think the most likely is that, if the principal allure of his succubus is her smile, the succubus is like "as long as he sees her face right up until i can suck up his blood and he passes out I’ll be gucci", so it’s not about the kiss but about him seeing her face all the while until the very last moment, so he stays charmed.

Btw chapter 34 explores Laios’ relationship with touch too imo, and we see that he is uncomfortable with touch to some degree, very unsure and hesitant and tense. I feel like it’s something more shown in a bigger picture sense with his whole struggles with humans and extras, than just in any one page so go reread the beginning of that chapter if you want I’d say, but putting a page below as example anyways. I think it’s notable that it’s a character moment shared with Marcille too, she acts sort of like a bridge to humanity with social propriety and being extroverted in many cases. In the chapter Chil and Marcille point out how awkward he is with touch, but he learns to be casual/comfy enough about touch to do healing magic with her (something that was also enforced through him having to practice magic on Marcille turned to stone, he got a lot of touch exposure and magic practice done in those days. Dammit Laios, MArcille and touch is worthy of a whole analysis of its own). She’s just like, his human comfort zone, even if they aren’t that close at least at first, besides Falin he has literally like no friends and I think that itself shows how he doesn’t fit in well socially and that it’s a significant struggle for him. But yes what I was saying here is I believe there’s setup for him recoiling from touch like he did with the succubus (due to an instinctive aversion to touch made especially intense due to the succubus’ oddness and forwardness).

I have even more theories and rambling on details on the succubus here in a reblog, but unless I want to put in some pictures of Laios repressing himself around others and such I don’t think I’ll be touching this post again in a while

#dungeon meshi #delicious in dungeon #dunmeshi #laios touden #scene analysis #character analysis #analysis #chapter 60 succubus #spoilers #dungeon meshi manga spoilers #marcille donato #autistic king of trauma laios #-points at him- that’s me!… That’s me!!#laimar #but this isn't laimar truthism #polished this up since it's been like what six months #looked upthe dates it's been nine months... Whew #something something 'the reason you're both touch starved and touch averse is you spent so long without human touch that you interpret any #touch as a threat'

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