I know you went into this briefly before. But truly. HOW INSANE adding a child into the Isabelamance arranged marriage Hawke.
Is the child expected to inherit? Does it remove potential matches Hawke could have had, potentially making the fiance lower on the social ladder than Hawke?? The implications?? Does Isabela even LIKE the kid??? What if the kid gets seasick. What then. How does no attachments no complications Isabela allow herself to fall in love with THE most attached man in Thedas.
AND THE KID WOULD BE OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE AGENCY AND OPINIONS AND AND SHIT IN ACT 3 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAJHHH
making this woman the not-stepmother to a kid growing up in a hightown estate just to feel something
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im sure everyone’s seen the argument by non-wincest shippers that canon weirdcest moments can be explained off as particularly close brothers. i’ve seen wincesties respond by straight up denying it, but honestly, i see where they’re coming from. they do TECHNICALLY have a point, yet still, it fundamentally doesnt sit well with me.
if you isolate all of these little incidents they could be perceived as purely brotherly. its got me thinking about what exactly makes wincest so appealing, and why i as a wincest shipper immediately have an exasperated reaction to people insisting that sam&dean are purely platonic.
i also see this argument frequently bundled with the stance that “weirdcest isn’t a justification for shipping wincest” (which is a whole other can of worms altogether— the puritan culture of ship culture rn), but you gotta take a step back and just ask yourself… why am i so intent on seeing these characters as platonic?
the prevailing argument ive seen is that siblings CAN be terribly close without being incestuous. this is totally fair. i’m not saying that if you are particularly close with your siblings in a sam & dean type manner that you are incestuous. obviously relationships between family is vastly complex & changes with the culture you grew up in.
the only problem here is that people try to go so far to explain sam&dean’s relationship as to not paint it as romantic. if they weren’t related, it’d be insane to think they weren’t romantic. they are consistently and repeatedly put in situations and exchange dialogue that’s used to convey romantic tone in western media. my point here being— the writers know that they are doing. and they are doing it INTENTIONALLY.
yes, certain cultures find extensive physical touch and kisses between siblings platonically acceptable. yes, you can be very close to your siblings without wanting to fuck them. but that is such a reach given what you are being presented with. you are missing the fundamental thematic point of supernatural: family horror!!
by so steadfastly arguing that sam&dean cannot be read as romantic you are purposefully ignoring the the text. you are glossing over the repeating themes of generational trauma and incest that are touched on time and time again, with john’s father abandoning him, mary’s parents being hunters, the struggle she went through to get out of the life but how family trauma & the past permeates itself into your being. you are ignoring the benders, the ghost pregnant with her fathers child, and the time azazel KISSED MARY in HER FATHERS BODY.
supernatural pushes incestuous themes SO HARD. it purposefully plays with & explores the double-sided blade that is family. it touches on a REALLY TABOO subject without being overwhelming or heavy handed. of course its going to attract people who enjoy these themes. OF COURSE we’re going to look at the two homoerotic brother leads and see something between them! it’s intentionally placed in the script! its a valid reading of the text!
this is why i get frustrated when people say that wincest shippers are twisting canon for the sake of shipping, because we’re not. when people say this they are taking a piece of media that is intriguing in how it handles a socially unacknowledged part of the human experience and forcing their viewing of it on others. they are saying that you aren’t allowed to enjoy those themes because it is inherently wrong or shameful to EXPLORE THE TOPIC. i dunno. that sounds pretty authoritarian to me.
it’s totally fine to be grossed out by incest or avoid wincest because it makes you uncomfortable. what ISNT okay is to say its an exaggerated reaction to canon, because it really isnt. in fact, its a pretty normal & sane conclusion to come to after seeing those two. the fact that they aren’t explicitly incestuous might even enhance this idea. it touches on the unspoken secretive nature of family trauma and the complicated, messy reality of crossing boundaries with blood without being cliche or overdramatic.
im going to incite occam’s razor here: yes, they could just be brothers. yes, you can explain it all away as particularly close siblings. yes, you can argue that it isnt explicitly canon. but really, why would you do all that when the show incessantly implies that they’re more? and more importantly, why are you so quick to say that a topic cannot be explored because it’s complicated? is that really the sentiment that we as a society want to hold regarding media?
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You are both an Arrowfamily and Jason Todd fan account so I thought you would be the best person to ask this but: What do you think the Arrowfamily members opinion on Jason are?
ooooh i love this question.. i think a lot of people jump straight to "they would hate him" because of his fight with mia but!!! i don't think thats entirely true!!!!! some of them would hate him but not all of them </3 i feel like the people that claim they would all hate him have a fundamental misunderstanding of the arrows and what they stand for, not to mention deliberately misconstruing what the the jason & mia fight actually was and pretending it was a lot worse than what actually happened. but thats just my opinion
ollie absolutely would hate him though lmao. he would never get over the fact that jason kidnapped, fought, & tried to blow up his daughter. no forgiveness ever.
if jason HADNT fought mia though i think ollie would like him or at the very least tolerate him. ollie very clearly has no issue with murdering bad guys (as seen in ga88) and would be completely on board with anyone who goes out of his way to fuck with batman constantly <3 also in my humble opinion ollie shouldve been a cosmic mistake in countdown due to him coming back to life because parallax put him back together, which would have been hilarious and would absolutely have ended in them getting along (until jason goes through like his fifth breakdown in that book, because he would absolutely lash out at ollie after watching that one version of bruce die. but thats a whole separate tangent)
dinah also would hate him for trying to kill mia, but probably not as intensely as ollie. but even without that issue i dont think dinah would like him, mostly because hes the worst and i dont think dinah would have the patience to put up with him. she wouldnt have a huge problem with the killing (she wouldnt NOT have a problem with it but i really dont think it would be an unforgivable issue for her), but she would just think hes kind of an asshole about it and she wouldnt like him at all. i also think theres a panel somewhere where jason says that dinah told him she hates him personally?? idk ive only seen screenshots of it but i think its funny so im incorporating it into my belief system
with roy... i feel like there are so many people that see rhato and swing to the opposite side of the pendulum and say that roy would hate jason but i dont think thats true at all. im a rhato hater because that is Not Roy so we're disregarding that, but i still think they would get along tbh! given that roy is deeply in love with a serial killer i think that the people who say he would hate jason are misunderstanding who roy is. i think when theyre both in character they actually have personalities that would mesh well together and they COULD get along really well. i dont see roy having a Big Problem with jason killing people (he would try to stop him from doing it but murder wouldnt be a dealbreaker for roy) so i think its fair to say they would actually get along!!! but i bitch and complain every time they show up in the same panel because now the damage has been done from rhato so i dont want them to interact in canon. only in the secret world in my head.
in regards to jason fighting mia, i dont know how to say it but,,, i dont think roy would have a huge issue with it. he certainly wouldnt be happy about it but also he wasnt there so i feel like all he would know about it was that jason kidnapped mia one time but mia was fine. honestly i think that he would be more interested in brothers in blood bc dick would def mention that jason murdered people in a nightwing costume then turned into a tentacle monster and tried to eat someone but dick forgave him anyway. and once he hears that suddenly the mia thing seems inconsequential in comparison
with connor... i cant lie im a little biased because connor is a member of my dream outlaws team but i really think they would at least kind of get along! connor is not the type of person to hold a grudge at all so once mia forgives him (which ill get into in a sec) connor wouldnt have a problem with him. he WOULD have a problem with jason killing people but he's close with eddie so clearly he doesnt have that much of an issue with working with people who have killed before as long as they dont kill in front of him. and i think that jason has a healthy respect for anyone who can beat him in a fight and because of that he would not kill anyone when hes around connor. i also think that connor and jason would never fight because connor would never throw the first punch and jason would never start a fight that he knows he cant win (but thats once again a whole separate tangent). basically i dont think they'd be besties or anything, i dont think theres a world where they'd ever even consider themselves friends. but i do think they'd get along well enough to not hate each other
okay now finally mia. kind of a controversial take but i really think she'd forgive him for kidnapping her! she absolutely would not forgive him IMMEDIATELY because it fucked her up so she would be pissed about it for a while, but also? i think she completely understood what he was trying to do. he wasnt really hurting her specifically (like yeah he hurt her but he made it a fair fight and he wasnt beating down on her or anything. she also hit him so it evens out) and he was actually trying to talk TO her and relate to her. and it was working!!! he didnt force her to do anything except fight (in a fight where he untied her and gave her her weapons), so once she got some distance from the event i think she'd forgive him. it would take a while for her to actually forgive him enough for them to actually get along, but i genuinely think they would. theyre extremely similar people and i think they would really be good friends if given the chance, but it would take a looooong time for mia to be comfortable enough to be around him enough to consider him a friend since the fight definitely fucked her up. but it is possible for them to eventually be close, and i think they could be really good friends
honorable mentions:
- i dont know emiko well enough to know for sure (i havent read new52 or rebirth green arrow so i havent read much with her </3) but from what i know i think they would get along
- lian would have no opinion of him whatsoever. at most she sees him as her uncle's brother. i truly dont think she'd care enough about him to form a positive or negative opinion about him
- i dont like sienna so i dont want to acknowledge her but for the sake of the post. she doesnt like jason because dinah doesnt like jason and she says "i hate everyone that black canary hates <3"
- cissie is not a member of the arrowfamily but she wouldnt like him because she absolutely would have an issue with any murderous vigilante given that she almost killed someone one time and had a huge breakdown, so anyone that kills people for the Greater Good and continues to do so would not sit right with her
- i have absolutely no basis for this but shado would hate him for no reason. no specific beef with him about his morals or his actions, she just wouldnt like his vibes. sorry to talk about rose (no im not) but she would see rose hanging out with jason and go "im so happy for you and your ugly fucking boyfriend im serious"
- eddie and jason would get along like a housefire. there is not a doubt in my mind that they would bond instantly (ok not instantly because they both hate everyone and would probably start with trying fight each other. THEN they would bond) and it would be catastrophic for everyone involved 🫶
ok i think thats everyone. or at least everyone that matters. never forget that all my opinions are 100% correct at all times
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