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jiangwanyinscatmom · 3 years

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[1/?] Sorry for venting. I just saw some bad takes that gave me a lot of feelings. Personally, JC stresses me out every time he comes on screen, but I don't mind it when JC fans say fan-typical things like how they like JC because he wears purple, or is grumpy, or they think he's hot, or that they ship x*ch*ng because the cql actors have nice jawlines. They're harmless, fun takes, and while I don't agree with some of them, I see where they're coming from

Hello there anon, vent away as that is what my blog is open for as I love/hate on Jiang Cheng as he is in the plot, as well as all of my beef with what has been done to him for the EN side of the fanbase! I am more than fine listening and engaging with the unsavory "unpopular" discussions of his canon behavior and this goes for anyone of course that needs an open play area. I'll try to engage with what you have sent point by point as succinctly as I can.

[2/?] (some of these are obviously crack, and I am a fan of a few problematic faves). But then there are stans that just have to put other characters down to make JC look good. Like, I think some fans take their freedom of interpretation for granted because most of these takes aren't even labeled 'headcanon,' 'ooc,' or 'crack' anymore. Stans feel that their interpretations are valid, and while they are, valid =/= canon, and they're treating these takes as canon, which becomes popular fanon.

I enjoy Jiang Cheng for what he is, however as I had said it took me another reread to get to my stance of him being the negative mirror to Lan Wangji's positive and my comfort with that for the story once I realized what purpose he served. He is only insofar tragic in regards to his circumstances, but it does not absolve him for what he is at his core (no pun, but I can make a very nice metaphor that even with a piece of Wei Wuxian in him he is still forever unable and unwilling to stand by him equally all while stagnating where as Lan Wangji is able to flourish, grow and mature with nothing of import left from Wei Wuxian in a technical sense). As for ships, I am a little dirty Xicheng whore for fun and can say there is a sense of entertainment for me making it work with two people where one is wildly ignorant and the other wildly rabid. But that is outside of what is established as canon in the work and I always try to keep the two strictly separate due to the skew fanon perpetuates.

3/?] And now, it's not clear what part of the fanon references canon JC or the canon events of mdzs. JC is an asshole; I don't like him as a person, but I do think that he's a complex character motivated by many issues (sup, YeeZY), which makes him fascinating to explore. Unfortunately, erasing his culpability also removes his agency. JC should be allowed to be an asshole character who makes his own decisions even if they're the wrong ones. He has made his own tragedy by constantly casting Wei Wuxian as the villain of his life.

Now thanks to you I will be using YeeZY to forever and now to acknowledge Madam Yu (this is your fault for the new tag). From a standing from storytelling I agree that he is complex in the Jianghu for MDZS. Where in the usual political intrigue of Wuxia, he would be the mustache twirling villain that is outright unforgivable in narration, it is by favor of Wei Wuxian's narration that has an early steeping of empathy for him. And he is not meant to be seen as ultimately sympathetic, the work builds up his hate against Wei Wuxian who tries to rationalize it all several times until he is finally unable to. Jiang Cheng is the antithesis to Lan Wangji and the false bait to get attached to in Wei Wuxian's first life. I will make the note their meeting in Yiling is lukewarm between both as they exchange nothing really in terms of conversation and all pleasantries are left in terms of Jiang Yanli for Wei Wuxian. By this point Wei Wuxian has already switched his yearnings of platonically wanting a part of Jiang Cheng's life, to subconscious romantic inclinations about Lan Wangji and the perceived loss of being in the other's life.

The very point of Jiang Cheng as the deconstruction, is that he has no passion in life despite his apparent exploits because he put a shadow to hang over himself as an excuse to say others think he is not good enough. He has no deeper motivations than pure selfishness by the end of the work and is pure frivolity that he has built up losing the meaning of his sect as a tradition. He had his agency (more than anyone I might add in the work due to his social position) that he used to build his reputation as a passive rich sect leader that has little to do with civilian problems.

4/?] And I think a JC, somehow, that realizes that he did something wrong and is working hard to change for the better and gain self-actualization to become that UWU best jiujiu the stans want him to be, who is ready to talk (not yell at) with WWX, apologize to him, and create a better, healthier relationship with him is a much more powerful reconciliation and happy ending than 'everyone is wrong and mean and they all apologize to JC, which magically gets rid of all his issues'.

He is forced out of culpability in reconciliation because simply put, his audience do not like the reality that relationships fray and dissolve with no further resolution other than we as adults both need to move on for safety and good health. It is not acceptable in real life and fiction is allowed to place that also in it's thematic relationships. He has a small, small spark of recognition at the end of the main story, however he himself seems to choose to ignore it, as change is hard and he has never taken to that well as was foreshadowed with his dogs and the idea of sharing a space with Wei Wuxian. To write this is an awful lot of work into his psyche which is not a nice place, he is a terrible being and downplaying that to make a sugar sweet person does not work instantaneously. He is the one responsible for the entire fallout with Wei Wuxian and he hysterically realizes that even as he tries to continue to blame Wei Wuxian.

The issue that I have with his current stan culture, is that they already view him as something he is not. They play at bicycle with all of the other protagonists that have positive traits that they strip as they see fit; Good affirming loving to children adult Lan Wangji, Self-sacrificing ultimately did it all for love and care Wei Wuxian, Hard exterior but softened to who they consider an annoyance Wen Qing, Loyal as partners in their exploits on the field and always have each others back Wen Ning. They even take Jin Guangyao's persona of playing damsel and using that as a positive to soften up Jiang Cheng into something he has never been for anyone for ships.

[5/5] Also, making WWX/WN/LWJ apologize just makes them look better than JC. Like, stans supposedly love JC, so they ahouldn't be lazy and work hard to give him actual character development. Again, I'm sorry for spamming your ask. It just really baffles me about where they get these 'hot' takes (All I'm going to say is that JC was ungrateful, and WN had a reason verbally dismantle him).

They see this, but, they will spin it in any way to excuse Jiang Cheng due to the story itself showing that he was in the wrong to everyone he flung accusations at and his hate. No one but him is at fault for his spite as he had gotten his revenge on the ones that had ruined Lotus Pier and killed his parents. His own resentment pitted him against good and well meaning people that he refused to help as he mimicked his mother's words about raising their heads higher out of goodness instead of keeping low and staying self-centered. There is the underlying criticism of taking individual arrogance as self-care at the cost of others. Each point that Wen Ning makes is exactly what Jiang Cheng himself knows as he hated Wei Wuxian for being something he could not be or even wanted to be. Jiang Cheng wants kindness but does not understand that kindness to others needs to be selfless and accept the hurt that can come with that in life. He encompasses the fall from the path of buddhist lifestyle, "The Three Poisons" to Wangxian's "Without Envy" at the stories end.

[6/5] P.S. I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it. I think it would be interesting to see what force of nature would push him through a character development because throwing a therapist at him would result in a murder.

"I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it."

They do not think he has to work for it, they say his tragedy is enough, while heaping accusations against Wei Wuxian and saying his own are not enough to absolve him. Something Wei Wuxian has never denied and told all present they are allowed to forever hate him for what he had done in the past, but that they need to find a way to live in a life that is always moving on. He learned that grudges do nothing once they are absolved and it leaves you with hate with nothing else to do with it once that object is gone. In terms of reconciliation, I do not ever think that either want anything other than a distant peaceful out of each other's life set up. Jiang Cheng does not need Wei Wuxian in his life to be satisfied and never has since he used him as the handicap to hide behind to stay angry and miserable. Being without that fallback opens the world far more for him to change than him ever interacting like an old friend with Wei Wuxian ever again, if he ever had the guts to do that.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #jiang cheng #yeah I am using that tag block me if it upsets you #pokes this sorry for the length I tried #listen... only i am his trash queen

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killing-all-joy · 3 years

Text

The World Is Ugly

I went “screw it” and decided to hop on the songfic train because this idea has been in my head for a looooong time. Finally finished it! This is a bit of a style divergence but I think it turned out nice so I hope you like it!

Pairing: Prinxiety

Word count: 7,127

Warnings: anxiety, mentions of murder

Virgil chewed on his thumbnail, staring at his phone in thought. He knew he had to tell Roman somehow, he just didn't know how. He had never been good at expressing intimate emotions.

Normally, Virgil would be incredibly anxious about telling his crush he liked him or he would ignore the feelings altogether, but this was different. Roman was different.

Why? Many reasons.

Virgil had known Roman for many years. They met in college and hated each other. However, they were friends with some of the same people and were forced to be around each other. They both had refused to sacrifice their friendships in the name of hating someone.

Over time, they stopped hating each other. Roman apologized for the names and the insults and Virgil apologized for his insults and cynicism towards Roman's creations.

Virgil eventually fell in love with Roman. When he realized it, it was like someone had yanked back a curtain over his feelings, but looking back, he found that the falling-in-love part was slow and gradual.

Now, it haunted his every waking minute.

Roman wasn't just like every other crush. Virgil had been in love with Roman for three years at this point and the feelings didn't seem to be fading in any sense. Roman had been Virgil's light and love for three years and Virgil had yet to find something about him that made him disappointed.

Patton was nice. Kind, sweet, enthusiastic; he was Virgil's best friend. But he could also be overwhelming, overbearing, strict, and too parental. Virgil loved Patton an incredible amount, but Virgil was sometimes too fragile to be fully comfortable in his presence.

Logan was smart. He was reliable, logical, honest, and gave very good advice. He was grounding, down-to-earth, and highly intelligent. However, Logan's wonderful qualities came with a side dish of coldness, occasional detachment and insensitivity, and bluntness. While this was often fine and sometimes even refreshing, it could sometimes be hard to deal with when Virgil wasn’t prepared for it. Logan and Virgil's friendship was very close and healthy, but Virgil couldn’t often deal with him for an extended period of time when Virgil wasn’t at his best.

But Roman...

Roman was perfect.

Yes, he could be arrogant and insensitive and harsh, but none of this deterred Virgil from extended interactions with him. To him, it just completed the puzzle that was Roman.

Roman was always perfect to Virgil. No part of his personality made Virgil not want to be around him. Virgil never had to twist the image of his princely friend to make him his ideal partner in his mind. No part of Roman's personality ever made Virgil wish he wasn't in his presence. At least, not after they became friends. His "flaws" just made him a better person in Virgil's eyes.

Virgil was mean. He was sarcastic, rude, blunt, pretty dumb, and constantly anxious. He was dark and brooding and incredibly pessimistic.

Virgil was a mess.

So, he obviously wasn't telling Roman because he thought the flawless man would like him back. But if it wasn't that, what was the point?

Because there were too many sleepless nights.

Too many evenings spent drying each other's tears.

Roman was sensitive, insecure; too sensitive of the opinions of others, too dependent on their approval. He wore his heart on his sleeve, and not everyone was wary of this, causing Roman frequent pain. Virgil had spent many evenings either on his or Roman's bed, hands on his talented friend's face as his thumbs cleaned away an endless stream of tears caused by events and people that would never be worth a second of Roman's time.

Virgil was almost certain he had more shirts that had been stained by Roman's snot and wasted saltwater than he had shirts that never had been cried on.

These nights, they made Virgil want to scoop up the princelike actor and hold him closer than the boundaries of their friendship would ever permit them to and whisper sweet nothings in his ear that would mainly just remind him of how loved he was. How loved he was by Virgil.

Virgil also wanted to apologize.

A week before, he, a singer-songwriter, returned from a particularly angering meeting with his manager. Roman tried to help him and cheer him up, but instead Virgil pushed him away by saying harsh things he didn't mean.

Of course, their friendship was too important to be on hold for a whole week, so Virgil had apologized the following day, but the musician could still tell that Roman was confused and not fully over it. He was no longer angry, but the pain hadn't left completely.

But Virgil couldn't explain his anger without also explaining that he was in love with him.

Roman had just been too nice, looking too pretty, and with brown irises that somehow seemed more entrancing than normal on that night. Virgil had wanted nothing more than to drown in the stage actor's arms. Roman had suggested ice cream, a movie (at home or at the cinema), or pizza if he hadn't already had dinner. Virgil had looked at his outstretched arms with want and longing. But he knew he couldn't play, tempt, or tease his heart like so and had declined rudely, faking irritation and anger. However, now he was faced with regret.

Virgil couldn't be fully honest with Roman if he didn't tell him about his feelings for him. It had been three years, but this dance could go on no longer. It made sense that if Virgil couldn't get over the theatric man in three years, he should face rejection in the eyes so that the romantic feelings would pass quicker. He should have told him long ago, but this was a good opportunity.

Yes, it was possible for him to wait for Roman's hurt and confusion to go away, but Virgil didn't want Roman to take any more actions (like not seeking Virgil's comfort when he required it, which had happened the night before this one) that would hurt him. It wasn't like telling Roman was a new concept for Virgil to mull over. A part of him had known for a long while now that telling Roman would eventually make getting over him easier. However, the possibility of Roman being disgusted and ending their friendship wasn't low. That was the driving force of Virgil’s hesitancy to enlighten Roman of the romantic inclinations he had for him. Virgil valued Roman's friendship, and would choose his platonic presence over his absence at any second.

But he couldn't lie any longer.

Roman had gone to Patton instead of Virgil last night when he learned that his ex-boyfriend (who ended their relationship five months before) had been cheating when they were together. Roman didn't still have romantic feelings for his former flame, but knowing that he cheated hurt him. He was lied to, betrayed; there was no way to tell if his ex ever loved him. That hurts even if there's no longer romance there.

Of course, Virgil learned this from a concerned Patton and not the actor himself.

All three involved in this event were troubled. Patton, for his friends' happiness (since Virgil and Roman made each other happy), Roman because he was confused and hurt, and Virgil, who wished Roman was comfortable with him again.

Virgil figured he only had one thing to do. Confess, and end the confusion.

Confess, and possibly end their friendship forever.

Virgil wished there was another way out.

But Roman was confused, hurt, and in a bad place. Virgil had tried everything in an effort to get over Roman, but nothing worked in the slightest. The singer knew it was past time that he confess.

So he stared at Roman's contact, the handsome face of his profile picture staring back. Roman was simply 'Roman' in Virgil's phone; he didn't put any cute nicknames in case Roman saw.

He brainstormed as hard as he could for a way to tell Roman he loved him romantically.

He didn't want to be too straightforward. Saying a blunt "I am romantically in love with you" was too scary to type out and send. And, he also had a shred of decency to not say something so important through text.

What did Virgil know best? Music.

He pulled up Spotify.

He went to his music, thinking through all the love songs he'd written about and for Roman (Roman didn't know of course). Virgil had his thumb over a particularly emotional and descriptive song, but paused.

If Virgil just sent him his song, Roman would think that he wanted an opinion on it, or that Virgil was reminiscing on works past. If Virgil sent a caption saying "this was about you", then the moment would be ruined, the text would feel too real and to-the-point, and he would be undermining his efforts to not say something monumental through text. No, he had to choose a song that would leave no room for confusion and no need for clarification.

What did Roman associate Virgil with, musically?

Emo music. Panic! At The Disco. Fall Out Boy.

My Chemical Romance.

Virgil would call the last his native tongue if he were able. It felt like such, each song seeming like it came from home or somewhere similar. It made sense for Virgil to communicate with something so dear to his heart. His friends were well acquainted with his love for the band. All his close friends, at one time or another, had been interrupted by Three Cheers For Sweet Revenge when they wanted to talk to Virgil. It told them he wasn't doing too well and needed time away from people and worldly responsibilities.

Which song, was the question.

MCR didn't have too many love songs; at least, they had a much lower percentage than many other bands. Also, a lot of those songs that you thought might be romantic could easily be interpreted differently. This made it a bit difficult for Virgil to find a song by them that encompassed his emotions, announced a repeat of his apology, and was clearly romantic.

He ran through the romantic MCR songs on speed-run in his head, paying close attention to the lyrics. His mind stopped when his brain fluttered to Conventional Weapons; more specifically, The World Is Ugly. He ran through the lyrics in his head, the tone, how clear the romance was.

He couldn't help but think no song described what he was feeling more.

The love, the apologeticness, the hatred of the world. Virgil knew how evil and ugly the world was. Is. But Roman...Roman was a star, shining in complete darkness without pause. Even when day came to hide the star's light and the two weren't in the other's presence, Virgil knew he was still there. Roman’s light wasn't like the sun which could blind or burn you, but like the stars in the sky that were bright, in a place far away, and at heights Virgil could only dream of reaching.

The lyrics made it clear that Virgil was using this song to communicate something—that something being love.

His finger shakily tapped his phone, pressing the share button and clicking on Roman's contact. He bit his lip, every brain cell except the one controlling his present actions screaming at him to reconsider, to protect their friendship and his heart. But this time, he ignored his anxiety.

He pressed send.

That was it. The text was sent. All he could do now was wait or regret.

A drop of blood slid down his chin from the lip he was biting too hard.

Roman opened his text messages reflexively. Virgil had a special text tone and Roman was conditioned to get excited when he heard it. He was almost always happy when Virgil sought out his company. Virgil's communication in any form was something he saw as a treat.

Virgil's feelings were no longer a secret.

---

Now, this was where the 'almost' came in. His argument with Virgil the week before made him anxious about what the text held. Was it a confession of hatred? Worse?

The app loaded to show a link to Spotify. He raised an eyebrow, plugging in his earbuds and shifting his position on his bed. He clicked the link and put in the earbuds as the song loaded and started.

Roman, an acquaintance of the emo for over five years at this point, and a friend for four of those years, knew his fair share of MCR. No, he did not know every song they ever created, but he knew a lot. This seemed to be one of the many he'd never heard. It was titled 'The World Is Ugly', a title he found unfamiliar and unsurprising for Virgil's music taste.

It wasn't nearly as intense as the ones that prompted him to lack interest in the band. He could hear the lyrics clearly.

As he started listening to the song that was sent without a caption, he realized that Virgil must have meant this as a way to communicate something. He decided to pay close attention to the lyrics for this reason alone.

The first verse seemed to have reassuring and protective elements, and a theme of unity between two people.

The chorus came, and he couldn't help but be taken aback by "but you're beautiful to me". At first, he thought it must be something Virgil didn't mean to convey, a lyric that didn't quite fit with everything else he was trying to tell Roman.

But the second chorus came after the second verse and Roman concluded that the song was a love song. It couldn't be anything else. To Roman, "but I wanted you to know” gave off the idea that if there was anything the singer wanted the audience to know, it was the next sentence (which included the line he was so confused about earlier). His mind almost came to the conclusion Virgil was trying to tell Roman that exact sentence...when he finally noticed that the chorus contained an apology.

Virgil already apologized.

Roman considered this, but a voice in his head told him that Roman hadn't accepted his apology—and acted like he hadn't.

Patton must have told him about last night.

He almost cursed Patton in his head, but concluded that Patton was worried because Roman often went to Virgil for the kind of thing he had gone to Patton for. Patton was concerned and probably wanted to make sure the two of them were okay.

By the end of the song, Roman knew what Virgil was trying to tell him. It threw him into a trance. He knew why Virgil sent this to him, and why he was so off-putting that night.

Virgil was in love with him.

Or so it seemed.

To be honest, Roman didn't want to believe it. Virgil being in love with him changed his whole world view.

To Roman, Virgil was the moon. Roman could always reach Virgil if he so chose, but he wasn't always present in person. He shone brightly to Roman, so bright. Not a light that made Roman shy away from and curse at, but a welcomed, beautiful light that made everything better when it was the dead of night and nothing else made sense. Virgil, for all of their friendship, was so close. He was who he was closest with. But, despite this, he was just out of reach. He couldn't hold him, touch him, speak to him in all the ways he wanted to. There was a boundary between them that made it so all that Roman wanted with Virgil was more than all that he got. He had gotten used to that. The moment he realized he wanted Virgil closer than he would ever be able to have him, he knew it would never be able to happen. Virgil didn't feel the same way.

Or, he thought that, at least.

But now, Virgil was telling him through My Chemical Romance that he did, in fact, feel the same. That he didn't mean to hurt him and he was so terribly sorry. That to Virgil, Roman was the only beauty in the ugliness of the world.

How long had Virgil felt this way? He’d had many boyfriends in the time they'd known each other. Many times where Virgil saw a man and couldn't help but be gay.

Then again, so had Roman.

Roman, despite having feelings for Virgil for a long time, dated. He'd had a few boyfriends throughout the time they'd been friends, all of them mainly in an effort to get over Virgil and because Roman thought they were cute. Maybe Virgil had done the same. Or, he could have been confused.

But the song didn't sound confused.

No, Virgil likely knew very well that he was head over heels for Roman. He had sent a single song with no caption or warning beforehand. It was clear that this was something that had been coming for a long time. Virgil was likely guilty about the fight and decided to enlighten Roman of his feelings for him.

Virgil loved him. Him.

Roman couldn't help but be surprised.

If Virgil liked anyone in their friend group, he'd think it would be Patton. He and Virgil were extremely close; best friends, if you will. (Roman was occasionally jealous of this because his closest friend was Virgil, but that was a topic for another time.) Patton was kind and sweet and cute and talented. He was a fantastic person who complimented Virgil in beautiful ways.

Virgil was also one to respect a great mind. Logan seemed more likely a love interest than Roman in the actor's eyes. Smart, interesting, logical, good with Virgil's panic attacks. The two of them would make sense. But it wasn't Logan. Or Patton.

It was Roman.

If he weren’t so emotionally drained and tired, he would squeal. Virgil was in love with him. Roman, the dramatic stage actor, the man who acted almost too much like a real-life prince.

Virgil was in love with him.

How would he respond?

Roman's eyes widened and he looked back at his phone, screen now dark. He unlocked his phone and stared at his conversation with Virgil. The text had been marked as read so Virgil must have known he'd seen it. He had to figure out how to reply.

Did Virgil want something to happen between them?

Roman didn't know.

Virgil sent the message as a text and didn’t include a caption. That could have been a way to say "I'm in love with you but I don't want anything to happen", since he wasn’t actually including anything that spoke of a desire to be with Roman romantically. However, it could just be that Virgil was an extremely anxious person and didn’t think he would be able to admit his feelings during an in-person interaction. If Virgil had been harboring feelings for an extended period, then it could be hard for him to say something directly to Roman after such a long time of keeping his feelings hidden.

A part of Roman figured that Virgil wasn't thinking ahead of this moment.

Virgil, as previously described, was anxious. He didn't seem like the type to expect or have intentions for their relationship after an admission like this. Virgil was the type of person to admit to romantic feelings and then spend every second following worrying over ruined friendships, offending someone, being mocked, getting insulted, and/or his feelings not being returned.

So, Roman concluded that Virgil wasn't conveying his intentions in this text. All he was saying was that he had feelings for him. Nothing more, nothing less.

'Nothing more'. 'Nothing more'?

Roman couldn't imagine what 'more' could possibly mean.

Virgil was in love with him.

'Love'. Something that seems so simple and sweet when you first hear it described as a young child, but something that grows to be meaningful, confusing, and complicated as you start to get older. And this love...this love was life-changing.

This was a love that had been burning for who knows how long, but that could have changed anything and everything had it been revealed sooner.

How many occasions were there where could Roman have said everything on his mind and Virgil would accept it, welcoming all his feelings? How many people did Roman date to get over Virgil that he didn't have to? How many nights in front of Virgil's door did he spend considering telling Virgil everything he felt before deciding against doing so were there? How many sleepless nights spent dreaming about what it would be like to be with him romantically did he entertain? All those things he might not have experienced at the extent he did if he'd gathered and exercised the courage Virgil currently seemed to possess...

Virgil watched as the text was marked as read. No response.

He supposed it was time for some courage of his own.

---

Virgil couldn't say with honesty that he expected anything different.

Roman was this marvelous, talented actor and Virgil was so not his type...

They were friends, though, and that mattered to Virgil. Their friendship meant the world and more to him. Maybe Virgil couldn't have his heart, hand, or lips—but he felt like he was the luckiest of people to be able to say Roman held him in positive regards. Their friendship was...

...their friendship.

Something Virgil was realizing with wide eyes and a sweater-pawed hand over his open mouth was ruined.

Sure, he considered this happening earlier, but he couldn't say he fully comprehended what it meant.

Roman, the light of his life...

...gone.

Or, at least, out of his life.

Sure, it was a friendship built on the ruins of malice, originally fueled not by each other but by mutual friends, and sustained by lies and obscurances of the truth committed by Virgil in an attempt to hide his true feelings. But it was still friendship. A friendship that meant more than anything else he had. A friendship he wasn’t sure he could deal with losing.

And he’d thrown it all away in one fell swoop. No more watching Roman’s plays at the theater, no more Disney marathons to fill the days off, no more meals of Roman’s signature chicken risotto made for his or one of their friend’s birthdays. The special comfort (whether it be after a series of panic attacks or a few angering minor inconveniences), the unique understanding Roman held and the techniques he used to make Virgil feel better during those terrifyingly vulnerable nights they shared was something that Virgil treasured beyond all else but still couldn’t fully comprehend the sacrality of. Those such nights would never again come to fruition.

Virgil wanted to yell. He wanted to scream, cry, throw the empty mug sitting three feet away on his nightstand at the wall. He didn’t, though, and he knew why. He didn’t...couldn’t regret sending Roman the text. Virgil knew he had to get over him, and that he had lied for too long. Roman deserved to know, no matter the consequences. Virgil loved Roman with all his heart, so it overwhelmed him with guilt to know he lied for such a long time. Virgil had been cruel to Roman that night the week before and he deserved to know why, even if it hurt their friendship. Maybe if he didn’t send the text things would eventually return to how they were and their relationship would continue as it always had with limited emotional complications, but Virgil would have to live day-in and day-out knowing that he was keeping information from Roman that after all these years of omitting information, his friend deserved to know.

Because there were so many nights of intimacy: of sobbing into the other’s chest with the lights out, or hands of varying temperatures drying tears, or screaming about a failed romantic relationship or the tragedy of infidelity in the aforementioned—ones that were too sacred to bring up during the day, too fragile that the moments would be shattered if they were approached with the attitude the two carried during a day of normalcy. Those nights meant more to Virgil than he let on. But the days after, he couldn’t help but feel guilty—like he’d taken something he didn’t pay for. He felt romantically for someone who didn’t return the feelings, and still allowing those moments of closeness to come to be felt like he was engaging in manipulation. He couldn’t help but entertain the nagging voice in the back of his mind that was convinced he was somehow violating Roman.

At least, with things the way they were now, Virgil would no longer have to deal with the guilt.

That didn't deter his ruthless anxiety, though. His thoughts were screaming about how everything with Roman was ruined, that all his other friends would leave him too, that Virgil would be miserable forever because he had lost the light in his life who was sometimes his sole reason for going. His hands were sweating and shaking violently. His phone almost fell from his hands at the instability. It was only fair for Roman to know, but gosh, did it hurt.

He steadied the phone in his hands and stared at the screen. His conversation with Roman was on his screen, staring back at him almost teasingly, torturously. It was like the phone or the app itself knew that this would be the last time he’d look at this texting conversation as someone who was still a friend of Roman. Soon, Roman would finally reply, and sever all ties. While Virgil was usually thankful he was someone who thought of all possible outcomes to a situation so that it was rare that an event caught him by surprise, in this situation, it only made it worse. He was sure it would probably be like suffering through heartbreak twice. The prediction beforehand, and then the real thing sometime later. He was experiencing the first right now, and the second had yet to come.

He knew that Heartbreak Number Two would feel worse.

Sure, he was feeling horrible presently, but he knew that the prediction wouldn’t be like the rejection. This heartbreak started with courage, then denial, then a realization that started to make Virgil’s hands shake and his heart beat uncontrollably. However, this was also a waiting game. When would he get rejected?

If Roman did end up waiting for a long time before delivering his rejection to Virgil, the pain would stretch out over a long time. If he waited for an extremely long time, the pain would slowly start to dull into a passive dread, with occasional spikes of anxiety. If Roman told him soon, Virgil would have less time to prepare for the rejection, so the pain would be much worse in the moment. Ultimately, the first was the worst. Extended emotional pain was not something Virgil needed, to say the least.

The text could come at any time, when it would send was not up to him. Virgil's fate and feelings were now in Roman's hands.

All Virgil wanted to do at this point was put his phone away, drench his face in ice water, and sleep for a thousand years. Neither of those things seemed to be possible, however, since Virgil could rarely seem to sleep for longer than seven hours and he currently couldn’t bring himself to put his phone down. His hands refused to let go of the instrument of his demise.

There were two warring thoughts of ‘is losing Roman really worth losing the ache in your heart?’ and ‘he deserves to know the truth’ circling in his mind. He tried to attach himself to the second thought in hopes of rationalizing losing the greatest person in his life. It was hard, though. What would Virgil do after this? Would he leave the friendship group? Or would things just be an awkward form of normal?

He was startled out of his thoughts by a quiet but concerning sound. When Virgil replayed the sound in his mind, it sounded like the clicking of a lock. The door to Virgil’s bedroom was ajar, so the door getting locked or unlocked was obviously the door to his apartment. Virgil distinctly remembered locking his front door.

Someone was breaking in.

Only four people had the keys to Virgil’s house. Virgil himself, for obvious reasons. Patton, Virgil’s best friend. That was a no-brainer; Patton and Virgil had keys to the other’s apartment because they often hung out in each other’s apartments without any warning or planning beforehand. Roman, after many instances of banging on the door at eleven at night because he had a terrible day and needed comfort but was also waking the neighbors with his loud knocking. Finally, Logan—the most recent person to receive a key (about six months back) after a harrowing experience of Virgil needing Logan’s specific comfort during a panic attack and Logan being unable to enter the apartment. Right now, it was late. Very, very late. Patton and Logan would be asleep. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t go to Virgil. He knew this. It wouldn’t be—could it be Roman?

No, no. Roman was too mad or disgusted or annoyed with him to seek his company at this late hour. Someone must have been breaking in.

The door opened. Virgil heard it; the loud creak he made sure to keep in the door’s design so he’d always be privy to an unplanned entry into his apartment. However, he soon realized he wouldn’t need that auditory warning of someone else’s presence.

He heard the footsteps.

They were fast, loud, and terrifying. What kind of burglar walks that quickly and obviously? A terrible one. Or, one confident in their ability to overpower whatever opposing forces they may meet in the home of their victim.

Virgil wanted to run to his closet and grab his broom. Truly, he did. But he was frozen in fear on his bed, phone tight in his hands, knuckles white, and eyes unblinking. He couldn’t move.

Virgil’s door was ajar. Opened enough for any unwelcome visitor to see that there was someone inside. If it was a robbery, the intruder could easily be armed and dangerous. Would Virgil die tonight?

The footsteps were approaching his room. Quickly, and without going anywhere else in the apartment. Virgil was suddenly worried that the intruder wasn’t a robber or a burglar, and instead, someone out to get him instead of his possessions. Virgil wasn’t sure if the change in his assessment of the situation scared him as much as it should have. The rapid change in train of thought from ‘Roman’ to ‘intruder’ wasn’t allowing the subsequent panic accompanying both of those thoughts to do much catching up.

The door to his room slammed open. Virgil was thrown back an inch from the force the intruder had placed on the door. This person was not concerned about noise. Virgil’s door was already ajar, why would they…

Virgil’s thoughts stopped when his eyes focused on the person now in his bedroom. His phone slipped from his fingers and onto the bed, not that Virgil cared to divert any attention to it.

Roman.

Not normal Roman, either. His eyes were wide, his hair was mussed, he was out of breath, and he was still holding the keys to Virgil’s apartment (which were on the same keyring as his car and house keys). Virgil, for all that he knew about his good friend, could not decipher the look on Roman’s face. It seemed a bit stressed, but not in a bad way. He had been running his hands through his hair, so a lot was obviously on his mind. Virgil almost wanted to say he was shocked, but it wasn’t quite like that. Almost like...he had been shocked a few minutes back and was coming to terms with what shocked him...which made sense. Virgil had told him he loved him. That must have been shocking. The lack of any other emotions like disgust or anger was what confused Virgil.

Virgil couldn’t help but be shocked too. What was Roman doing here? Virgil had confessed. Now it was time for him to hate Virgil for his feelings and ban him from the friend group.

Wait…

The keys were still in Roman’s hand. Maybe...maybe Roman was here to return Virgil’s keys. Maybe he was here to sever all ties with him. Return Virgil’s keys, take the keys to his apartment from Virgil, tell him their friendship was over…

Roman could be here to yell at him. Virgil had kept this from him for too long. Roman might have been here to scream that he deserved to know earlier. He’d be in the right, too, since Virgil agreed. One final scolding of his actions before Roman was out of his life forever.

But did those assumptions match the look on Roman’s face? Severing ties with someone you hate should have no lingering shock, and yelling should show more obvious negative emotions than Roman was currently displaying. Roman should look disgusted, irate, and probably betrayed as well. While Roman was a fantastic actor who could pull off hiding such things, Virgil didn’t think he’d try to hide emotions like that in the present situation.

Virgil was shocked too. He thought Roman would at least let some time pass before ending all pleasant connections with Virgil. He thought he’d take time to think and mull over what Virgil’s confession meant.

He hadn’t. This terrified Virgil. Had he come to a conclusion of hatred that quickly? Was Virgil that in the wrong? Virgil was mortified...what did that mean for Roman’s next actions?

But, again, Roman didn’t look angry. He had to be, Virgil knew it, but it wasn’t obvious on his features. So, that assumption couldn’t be taken as reality.

Virgil sat in awe at his current situation. Roman was here, probably to yell or scold him, but was silent so far. None of the conclusions Virgil had come to seemed to so far seemed to have enough evidential basis to be taken as truth. So, Virgil pressed pause on the speculation and let the only expression of his thoughts and emotions be surprise.

The love of his life was in his bedroom. For what? Virgil was uncertain.

They stared into each other’s eyes. Both were full of shock, just different kinds of it. Virgil was surprised Roman was in his room—not exactly a positive kind of surprise either. Roman’s shock, while clearly something that was at its climax minutes back, was still showing on his features. A type of shock that, unlike Virgil’s, was indecipherable when it came to whether it was a good shock or a bad shock.

Virgil didn’t know how long they were still and staring. It could have been fifteen seconds; it also could have been fifteen minutes. While it was probably around two minutes, time passed differently when Virgil’s green and purple eyes were locked with Roman’s brown eyes.

Virgil knew he wasn’t just showing surprise. There was no way the fear wasn’t seeping into his expression as well. He didn’t try to stop it because he knew that if he did try, he would fail. Virgil wished he knew what Roman was thinking—wished he knew whether he should be scared or not. Roman didn’t look scared, not like Virgil did. Maybe Roman hadn’t noticed. Virgil was able to tell with bitter realization that he was more scared now than when he thought there was someone in his house trying to kill him. Sure, he’d been relieved at first, but that didn’t last for more than a second. Whatever Roman was here to do seemed worse than anything a malicious stranger could potentially have in mind.

Roman finally moved. He took a step and a half towards the bed, towards Virgil.

Virgil flinched back, right arm darting behind him and holding him up in a position that made it easy for him to leap off the bed. Roman stopped his approach.

Virgil didn’t mean to flinch, but he was too deep in his surprise and fear to do anything else. When he noticed his own movement, he was overwhelmed with regret. He wanted to get this interaction over with. Creating drama by showing his current fear of Roman wasn’t going to help with that.

Roman suddenly showed emotion other than shock on his face. His eyes started to burn with sympathy and guilt, something that confused Virgil to no end. If anything, Roman should have become angrier. Why was he showing guilt at someone he should be hating?

Roman dropped his keys. The clinking that sounded as they fell on the hardwood floor didn’t elicit any reaction from either of them. They continued to keep eye contact.

After a moment free of any movement, Roman started to approach Virgil again, this time slower and much more careful, like one approaches a terrified animal in the forest. Roman was clearly a bit hurt by Virgil’s flinching, but his present focus seemed to be on the fear that Virgil would do it again—or worse, run away. His steps were slow and quiet. His posture was a bit crouched, probably as an effort to seem less threatening.

Virgil’s teeth clenched. He didn’t want to flinch again since Roman hadn’t actually done anything to imply that he would hurt Virgil, and also because flinching would only complicate things further. Nonetheless, Virgil was scared of what Roman was preparing to do. While Virgil rarely addressed it, he’d always found Roman to be scarier than the average person. He was tall, fairly muscular, and had a temper that could do some damage when Roman wanted it to. His strength was scary and his words were scarier; he reminded Virgil of Janus in that he was good at knowing precisely what to say to bring someone emotional agony. Any preparation for being hurt by Roman was useless; he knew Virgil better than Virgil would like to admit, making it that much easier for Roman to hurt him.

Roman’s left hand reached towards him. Virgil would have flinched if his hand was in a position to strike. It wasn’t, though—it was mirroring the scared animal in the forest analogy; the extended arm was almost serving as a gesture of peace, a white flag. Virgil thought that Roman was offering Virgil his hand to take and he intended to move away, but he didn’t need to. Instead, Roman’s hand gently rested on his upper right side. His eyes looked like he was asking for permission, if his touch was okay, but Virgil could not respond. His eyes stayed on him with surprise and fear.

This touch was too gentle to be malicious. That fact was clear to Virgil, so he couldn’t jump off the bed and escape without feeling guilty. Virgil didn’t necessarily want the touch either; he didn’t dislike Roman’s hand being there, but it felt wrong, like it shouldn’t be happening. And with all the common sense Virgil had, it shouldn’t. Virgil didn’t expect Roman to touch him, even after he unexpectedly broke in. But if he did, Virgil wouldn’t expect the touch to be anything but hostile. Virgil almost hoped his confusion showed in his eyes.

Roman’s right hand reached out as well. Faster than the left had, but still moving at a careful pace. This arm went around Virgil’s waist. Then, Roman started to almost pick him up and lead him to the edge of the bed. Virgil was simultaneously terrified and embarrassed at being carried, so before Roman could properly pick him up, Virgil moved himself to the edge of the bed.

Roman’s lips twisted into what looked like one of Roman’s subtle but encouraging smiles, which again bewildered Virgil. The arm around his waist retreated and rested just above Virgil’s hip. Roman guided Virgil to his feet.

Roman clearly wanted Virgil at the same level as him—standing up. Out of context, that made sense. Virgil had shown fear of Roman, so if Roman didn’t want Virgil to feel inferior at the moment, leaving him sitting wasn’t exactly a good idea. What perplexed Virgil was that in this situation, it made sense for Roman to keep a high ground and a dominating stance. He must’ve been (he had to be) mad at Virgil. Even though that conclusion was growing less and less probable through Roman’s every action, it was the only thought keeping Virgil sane.

Roman’s left hand moved from Virgil’s side to rest on his cheek. Virgil froze, thinking he was about to be hit for a split second but was again proven wrong. Roman’s thumb brushed under Virgil’s eye—Virgil would say it was loving but that was preposterous. Virgil wanted to close his eyes, to bask in the feeling of being touched like this (no one was ever this sweet and gentle with him in a manner that would be considered romantic out of context), but he was too preoccupied and scared and surprised and confused and-

“Virgil,” said Roman. It was quiet, tender, and held more love than Virgil believed to be possible. “Virgil, mi luna.”

Virgil had no idea what that meant. He didn’t think he wanted to know.

“I love you too.”

Virgil inhaled sharply. Not too loud (he didn’t want to ruin the delicacy of the moment), but it was still audible.

Roman loved him too. Roman returned his feelings.

That didn’t make sense. Not in the slightest. Roman had shown no interest; Virgil was positive there was no reciprocation of his feelings…

But that didn’t matter now. He had to reply.

He saw Roman start to move in closer, slowly, allowing Virgil time to object. Virgil didn’t, letting the gravitational pull of Roman’s lips allow Virgil to reciprocate Roman’s intentions to kiss.

“May I kiss you, moonlight?” Roman murmured.

“Yes,” whispered Virgil, voice practically silent.

Roman’s lips met his—first, a gentle and unsure brush of lips, but then a firmer and more intent kiss. It was gentle, caring, but most of all, it was full of love.

He smiled against Roman’s lips. Roman smiled too and kissed him deeper.

Virgil couldn’t say he wasn’t still baffled by everything going on in the present. That wasn’t to say he wasn’t happy about the way things turned out.

~~~ ☪ ~~~

“Earth is ugly,” said the stars to the moon. “It does not deserve your light.”

“Maybe so,” replied the moon. “But have you considered that you are too far away to see its beauty?”

Taglist: @somehow-i-got-an-account @justanotherhumanstuff @neo-neo-neo @fander-fic-recs

I know that little bit at the end is a bit extra and unnecessary, but I thought it up one time and it has some ‘deeper’ meaning I liked as well as relation to the metaphors in the story. I deeply considered not posting this one because of how different it is to the usual and the minimal dialogue, but I sent it to a beta who loved it! I’ve been stirring in the idea of Virgil confessing with this song for probably 6+ months and only decided to start writing it in October. It might be bad but I hope you enjoyed! I’ve been working on this on and off for months so I really hope it’s good.

#prinxiety #sanders sides fanfiction #virgil sanders #roman sanders #ts fanfic #tell me if there's any more warnings I forgot to include!#or if you see a typo lol call me out on it #romantic prinxiety #fic #murder mention tw #songfic #kill writes

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wolfstar-in-color · 3 years

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July Creator Spotlight: Desicosplay

Hello, lovely people, and welcome to our second creator spotlight!

Each month, we will highlight a different creator in our lovely fandom who features diverse characterizations of Sirius and/or Remus. We will invite you to get to know them better through questions and answers, Fandom Discourse(tm), and a featured prompt created by our guest.

For our second spotlight, we are absolutely honoured to having the presence of @desicosplay, an incredible cosplayer and writer that if you don’t follow, you should do right away. They’ve gifted us with many, many amazing gifsets, a lot of them about Sirius. Below you’ll see a little snippet of the interview and Mastani’s prompt. Under the cut you’ll be able to read the full interview. Don’t forget to share and interact with this post, and if you have anyone you’d like to recommend for a spotlight, shoot us an ask!

“Diversity means celebration. So in fan spaces, that means actively seeking out creators that you might otherwise miss. It means trying out new perspectives, or listening to new perspectives on your favorite characters. It means standing with your peers, being loud in your love and support of them. I’m not saying you have to reblog or comment on everything. Diversity is not just visual, it’s also mental. Diversity needs to be intentional and active, even if that takes place just in your head.”

Mastani’s prompt: Muggle AU! Sirius and Remus at Harry’s sporting event!

Hi! I’m Mastani, she/they/he pronouns, I’m a 1.5/2nd Generation Indian-American, and I cosplay and write fanfiction!

Q: How did you start creating in the fandom? What did you wish to bring into the fandom?

A: Almost five years ago, Laina @ohtheclevernessofme1972 convinced me to join the HPRP community. She and everyone else were so supportive of my desire to bring my culture and background to the Harry Potter characters. Eventually, I also started writing fanfiction again!

Q: What things about s/r as characters or in their relationship inspire you to create around them?

A: I think that they are very complex characters that really demonstrate how external factors affect your life, whether you like it or not. Their relationship, whether platonic, romantic, or anything in-between or outside, is also so fascinating in its potential to evolve. Wolfstar is constantly changing, and all its interpretations are totally feasible to imagine.

Q: What things would you like to highlight about the Wolfstar fandom and your experience in it?

A: My main dips into the fandom are when I cosplay Sirius, and every time, I feel so much love. The fandom is so open to any interpretations of Sirius, and it does wonders to make someone feel accepted.

Q: What type of content do you wish you saw more in the fandom?

A: This is entirely self-indulgent, but Godfather/Uncle!Sirius just make me feel so warm inside. There’s a love inside Sirius that only gets touched upon inside the books. AUs where he gets to interact with Harry as a child or teen outside the pressure of a war are just so calming and warming.

Q: What is your favourite wolfstar fancontent (fic/fanart/gifset/etc) and how does it inspire you?

A: Y’all, I have so many Wolfstar fics saved that are just stunning and several that are comfort fics. I think the biggest takeaway from all of them is the comfort the boys find in each other. All of them are AUs, and I’m inspired to depict my Wolfstar as something kind, gentle, and communicative.

Q: Which of your own identities inform your creative processes? How has that process been for you?

A: All of them! But more specifically, my racial background informs most of my process. My process is… Sporadic, to say the least. However, when I do get struck with an idea, I have to create it almost instantly. One example, Wolfstar-related, is that my Sirius cosplay has long hair, half-up in a bun. I feel like desi!Sirius would celebrate his heritage by growing his hair long, which also is a nice, “screw you,” to societal and familial constraints.

Q: What advice do you have for other content creators with diverse backgrounds in the fandom? What would you say to people that might feel they don’t have the “right” history/experience/characteristics to participate in the creation of content related to Wolfstar?

A: think the best advice for participation I have comes from the iconic Jay @siriussly-serious, Rest in Power. “Go. Get in. Dive in. Fucking head first. Fuck that, cannonball your butt right in there and make a damn splash…” There is no, “right,” history/experience/background. These characters are fictional, but they can reflect our world. Our world is not homogenous. So why should fictional worlds and characters be that way? These stories are ours, and we shape them to be whatever we want them to be. If you want to create, that’s all the prerequisite you need.

Q: How could we build a more diverse fandom?

A: This blog is a great example of how to build a diverse fandom. Celebrating creators with diverse backgrounds and being loudly supportive of them makes us want to stay. Finding communities that celebrate, not just accept, can make a world of difference. So, raise your voice and love on your favorite creators.

Q: What’s your favourite thing to modify in Sirius’s or Remus’s characterizations to bring new perspectives to them?

A: I’m a huge communicator, so improving character communication is something I love to do. I like to create fluff, and this change lets me focus on the gentler parts of Sirius and Remus, or the parts that need some love, e.g. mental health. It also lets me flesh out their senses of humor more, like their dislike of cats (in my headcanons).

Q: What does diversity mean to you? What does that encompass in fanish spaces?

A: Diversity means celebration. So in fan spaces, that means actively seeking out creators that you might otherwise miss. It means trying out new perspectives, or listening to new perspectives on your favorite characters. It means standing with your peers, being loud in your love and support of them. I’m not saying you have to reblog or comment on everything. Diversity is not just visual, it’s also mental. Diversity needs to be intentional and active, even if that takes place just in your head.

Q: What are your ideas about the notions of culture and ethnicity? How do you relate to those notions?

A: I find culture and ethnicity to overlap in many ways, as they both pertain to group characteristics. I’m not an anthropologist, so I don’t know the detailed differences between the two. However, in my quick searches, it feels, to me, that culture is a bit broader and ethnicity is more geographic. So, I’m culturally Indian-American and ethnically Gujarati Indian (Gujarat is the state in India). I find these notions to be helpful when defining and describing my experiences. For example, among desis (and other brown folks), saying I’m generation 1.5/2 tells them that I straddle American/Western and Indian culture. If I tell another Indian that I’m Gujarati, they instantly know the kind of foods I grew up with and the language my parents speak. It’s a streamlined way of explaining my experiences, and as a science brained person, it makes life easier for me.

Q: Is there a page/organization/institution you would recommend for fans to search/read when it comes to learning about diversity?

A: With the tool that is social media, there are so many activists and creators that are willing and able to teach about diversity. On my page, I keep a page titled, “Resources for Justice.” This page has a wide variety of social justice resources on it. Google is great, but you also want to cross-check your sources. However, I feel like the best way to learn is to ask questions. Do so respectfully and ensure the person you’re asking has the energy/time/compensation to answer. Especially if you’ve done some research ahead of time, I find that many folks are willing to have a discussion - but again, check with the person first. Trust is paramount in these conversations.

Q: Is there a project/organization that you want to hype?

A: Oh, I could name so many. However, the ones I want to shout out here are Chrysalis - Gender Identity Matters and Raze Collective. As many of you know, Jay @siriussly-serious passed away recently, and in his name, we’re promoting/donating to these charities. Chrysalis - GIM offers online and in-person mental health support for trans and nonbinary people in his area and Raze Collective supports LGBTQIA+ performers. Ami @ami-acts and a few others (I apologize for not remembering exactly who - I’ll message the mods if I remember/please add on if you know) organized this. Links are below.

Donate to Chrysalis - GIM here.

Donate to Raze Collective here.

Q: Leave us with a quote or work of art that always inspires you

A: Is it too cheesy to say all of our fandom? To be totally honest, that’s who/what inspires me most of all. It’s a work of art, all the people in it make our fandom a work of art!

#creator spotlight #desicosplay #cosplayer #writer #hp fandom #HPRP

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woman-loving · 3 years

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“The SAM” and its critics

I guess I won’t make it a whole thing, but here are my thoughts on the “split attraction model.” (NB: This perspective is based on my own recollections and interpretations, but I don’t know all things. Different versions of the story may exist.)

To begin with, the term “split attraction model” was coined circa May 2015 by critics who were trying to name a phenomenon they took issue with. Going forward, “critics” will refer to this group who first coined the term, but they are not the only ones who criticize the language, components, or universalism of the “split attraction model.” (Example from theacetheist with lots of links.) The particular criticisms I’m concerned with developed around the time that monosexism discourse was dying down, and a group that had been critical of “monosexism” was exploring new topics to complain about. (I was one of the complainers, to be clear; that is not a disavowal.) Here are a couple sample posts from May-July 2015: one, two, three, four. Note the anons mentioning they can’t find anything about the “split attraction model”--that’s because there was nothing else written using that language!

Grumblings were eventually arranged into the sequence of words, “split attraction model,” and that term took off among critics who used it as a vague gesture toward a set of grievances. As I remember it, one of the primary targets was the paired sexual-romantic identity format, e.g. naming one’s orientation as --sexual --romantic. Also as I remember it, criticisms were primarily concerned with its use beyond ace/aro people, focusing on what might be considered bi-range “mixed orientations” like “bisexual heteromantic” or “homosexual biromantic.” It wasn’t too uncommon to see people say that these paired identities could work for ace or aro people, but didn’t otherwise make sense.

I believe connections were also made between these identities and the creation and cataloguing of specialized identities that detailed to whom/what and how/whether one experienced attraction. The people who advanced or approved of these projects, and the approach to sexuality/gender that seemed to motivate them, were scorned as “mogai.” Although I too scorned “mogais,” I never looked too closely at any “mogai” blogs; “mogai” was a category based mostly on impressions. The use of other subtypes of attraction (e.g. sensual, aesthetic, platonic, which may have been previously popularized among ace/aro people) as the basis for orientation-like labels such as “heteroaesthetic” or “homosensual” also provoked consternation, although I couldn’t tell you if these labels were ever seriously adopted by a significant number of people. As I understand it, “romantic orientation” was also popularized among aces, although this and other concepts that took inspiration from it were being used on tumblr by a mixed and overlapping group of ace/aro/lgbtq people.

Sometimes when critics invoked the “split attraction model,” they were imagining all of this as a single model of orientation, in which (they presumed) a “complete” orientation (as they were used to thinking of it) would entail listing out --sexual --romantic --sensual --aesthetic and whatever other dimensions people created. But I think that often times critics would be thinking mainly of the paired sexual-romantic identity format, which was more commonly used.

The objections were many. A lot of these revolved around the way “sexual orientation” and --sexual terms were defined by people who also used “romantic orientation,” --romantic terms, and other parallel dimensions of orientation and identity.

Critics were used to “sexual orientation” and “sexuality” naming something that encompassed erotic/sexual, emotional/romantic (e.g. being “in love”), and social/kinship (e.g. dating, marriage) elements. Likewise, they understood terms like “bisexual,” “homosexual,” and “heterosexual,” as well as “gay” and “lesbian,” as inclusive of all these elements. And, in fact, this is the typical way in which these terms are used by gay/bi people and activists and by almost anyone writing about these subjects in a serious way. Gay/bi people have often had to demand recognition for the emotional and social aspects of their relationships and desires, or (alternately) for the sexual aspects, and so there was some significance attached to affirmation of their integration. Critics didn’t believe that all elements always occurred together, however. There's general recognition that sexual interest can occur apart from being “in love.” And while there’s more social skepticism over this possibility, many of these critics would have also agreed that you could be “in love” without sexual interest. (Some critics identified as ace and/or sex-repulsed.)

Critics sensed that when “sexual orientation” and --sexual terms were being paired/contrasted with “romantic orientation” and --romantic terms (and others), the meaning of the former were narrowed to only refer to specifically sexual and not emotional/social components. And I think you can, in fact, see that reflected in how "sexual orientation” is explained by some people who use both orientations (and others). A while back I compiled a sample of definitions of “sexual orientation” from a few college LGBTQ groups and compared them with a few definitions from AVEN and AVENwiki, and the difference is apparent. (Some of those entries have sense been edited in response to my post.)

So I think there was a real difference in how people were using “sexual orientation” and --sexual identity terms. The critics were using them in the broader, mainstream sense, while others were using them more narrowly. For record, I don’t think the narrower version is objectively “incorrect” or anything like that, and I can understand why some people would like to use it. But it is different from how the terms are usually used, and how a lot of gay/bi people and others would like to see them used. And reading “sexual orientation” in the narrower sense when it was intended to be used in the broader sense can result in a very loaded misunderstanding. The same is true for words like “bisexual” and “homosexual.” There was a lot of concern that calling oneself “bisexual” would be interpreted as exclusively sexual-related information.

The use of “homosexual” itself was also criticized. This was (with reason) identified as a stigmatizing term that a lot of gay people didn’t want to be called. But within the “split attraction model,” this term, in its narrower re-sexualized sense, seemed to be the “correct” term for gay people.

There was also concern about who was adopting “homosexual.” Critics who were coming from anti-monosexism circles tended to value solidarity between lesbians and bisexual women and didn’t see either group as privileged over the other. But they also accepted that there was a fairly clean boundary between these groups, and that keeping this boundary unambiguous was important. The “mixed” sexual-romantic identities such as “homosexual biromantic” blurred the distinction between gay and bi, and were thus unintelligible until they were translated as “just a gay person” or “just a bi person.” This translation could go either way. When translated as “just a bi person,” “homosexual biromantic” was perceived as bi people appropriating a gay identity, and a disrespectful one at that.

A clear division between “oppressed” gay/bi people and “privileged” straight people was also a key point in critics’ social-political worldview, and this mixed identities also blurred this divide, resulting in potential “just a (homophobic) straight person” readings. A “heteromantic bisexual” could be a straight person who just used gay/bi people for sex, and was further obscuring their privilege and homophobic by presenting themselves as non-straight.

Unprocessed internalized homophobia and biphobia were seen as explanations for the adoption of these identities (for either “just gay” or “just bi” translations). The use and promotion of these terms (among advice blogs or through LGBTQ glossaries, for example) was also seen as limiting the ability for young gay/bi people to work through internalized homophobia and biphobia. Having doubts about whether one could have a sexual or emotional relationship with someone of the same gender were seen as common uncertainties among young and newly-out gay/bi people, resulting from the suppression of same-gender possibilities by a heterosexist society. There was a perception that questioning people were being actively encouraged to accept these uncertainties at face value as natural, enduring aspects of their orientation. Even simple exposure to these identities could set people back in their self coming out process, and some people reported how adopting these identities had been a roadblock on their own journeys.

In conjunction with all this, there was a perception that these models of orientation were gaining ground and displacing the models they favored. It seemed easy for current and past broader uses of “sexual orientation” to be overwritten with the narrower version, and thus have the speaker’s meaning completely distorted. I think part of this sense of threat was due to the paired sexual-romantic identities--and other specialized identities that were being developed--following a very empirical-sounding format. It seemed easy to read these terms as a cutting-edge classification of newly observed patterns of human “attraction” and “orientation.” Models that didn’t include them could easily be read as lagging behind and incomplete, their omissions attributed to ignorance rather than an alternate vision of what was meaningful and important to name. This all seemed to lean hard on on a “scientific,” essentialist model of sexuality. And actually, critics themselves sometimes drew on a similar model of sexuality to justify the divisions they saw as important (e.g. between gay and bi). Unfortunately, although critics saw these paired and specialized identities as a clear folly of “going too far,” I think they found it difficult to explain why these terms that sounded even more “sciencey” and comprehensive (= authoritative), were actually wrong.

Anyway, I guess that’s about all I have to say on it for now. Feel free to let me know if you think this story is accurate or inaccurate.

#split attraction model

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unofficial-sean · 2 years

Text

Individualistic Applications of Love

I feel like I'm always misplacing my affection and love. I'm also constantly confused and unsure about how people feel about me. I don't know how to properly interpret what they are communicating and gesturing. One moment, I'm certain there's mutual affection, and then the next, I get a que that destroys that notion. And without any explicit yes or no, I'm just left in the space between, where I can't be certain if I should push harder, or if I should withdraw. I'd like to keep up an appearance that this doesn't trouble me often, but I can't. I feel. . . unduly anxious. Anxious that I may misplace my heart until the end of my days. I wish I knew how to be direct without being dire about how I feel to people I deeply care about. I've had too many bad experiences where being sincere about what's stirring inside of me has only made people weary, or worse. It's like trapping a maelstrom in a jar made of glass, and then showing it to someone. That glass can shatter at any moment. Then again, I usually make myself clear. So maybe I already have a vague notion of my answer. But I'm afraid to hear it expressly. Love is a very strange emotion, aye?

Then again, I think all this fear and anxiety stems from my framework for how I feel and interpret love. It's like a light switch. It's there or it's not. I wouldn't date or have sex with my family members, so I never tell them that I love them. The word feels inappropriate there, to me. The same for some of my friends. Others, I do feel attraction and affection for. And in those cases, the switch flips. Love is now an acceptable word to express to that friend. But I think for most people, love is not a binary light switch, It's a dimmer switch. They love them like family. They love them like friends. They can love non-exclusively, or they can love singularly. They can separate and distinguish different intensities and types. I forget this. Someone may say they love me, in a platonic or friendly sense. But to me, that word has one encompassing meaning. Because that's how I use it. It's my way of saying "I wouldn't mind a lifetime with you." "It would make me overjoyed to be closer to you." Though, now that I've written that, I suppose those phrases can also be applied to the dimer switch. Fuck, my analogy broke haha

Okay, I can fix it. The word "love," to me, is entirely romantic. So, when I use it, I mean it. My brain has been, and will continue to be, weird. I'm sure an NT might read this and wonder "Well, that a bit odd and limited."

It's one of the reasons I really struggle to remain in any outlet of the furry community for too long. It almost feels like everyone's got a piece of their heart in everyone else's pockets. And when they pay their affection towards me, as well, I don't see it for what it is. I interpret it as my form of singular affection. I end up hurt, the space becomes too suffocating, and I leave. Opening myself up through admission of affection is the most vulnerable I can be. So when I present that affection to someone who doesn't share it. . .

It's devastating.

Maybe if my model of love were more flexible and open, I might be better off. but I can't imagine living very long if I have not a singular deep connection. It's been so long, it's kind of scary to imagine forming one again. Or being so close to forming one, and having it disconnect. With my model, I begin to feel I'm unlovable. People may like me, but never enough to be romantic for any meaningful time. But from the outside in, I imagine friends don't even now this turmoil is there. They love me in some analog capacity on that dimmable switch. Between off and on. And I can't see it.

At some point, I have to flip that switch off and move on. I just wish I knew ho to do that in a non-destructive manner. If I linger around someone who I used to feel "on" for (perhaps still do), it pains me to see them go off and. . . engage in their variable intimacy with others, to put it vaguely. Most of the time, it's best I don't know at all.

Though I'm sure I'm guilty, too, of these things I find hurtful in others. If I feel really lonely, I look for ways to feel wanted, even if it's just temporary. Like posting a nude, getting a commission with someone, light flirting that goes nowhere. Even just pining over someone. At no point would I call that love, and yet it still feels like a betrayal. I feel dirty inside for wanting to feel wanted in return, no matter how brief.

I used to be a lot worse, a couple years ago. I'd just hookup often, strangers or friends, to feel desired. But that had a nasty side effect. Despite being so physically close to someone, they couldn't have been more emotionally distant. And it was taxing to consider that imbalance. It felt worse than not having contact at all. I think it's time to flip this switch off. I think I've done and said enough, for now. It helps to write this stuff to no one. I learn and realize as I go along when I put it on paper.

#vent #love #relationships #furry #neurodivergent #autism #asd

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antihero-writings · 4 years

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The Offspring of a Dream

Fandom: Bloodborne

Fic Summary: Why does the Doll call you “good”?

Notes:

Obviously the lore in this game is very hidden and up for interpretation, so this fic in part has to do with my personal interpretation of things, so please keep that in mind! I know there's a theory about the Doll being a Great One/Avatar out there (haven't read up about it much through), but currently I find there's something rather beautiful about the Doll truly just being a doll, who is genuinely kind, and just trying to help us out, because the game has little to no other characters like that. I also know whether or not we are "good" is definitely up for great debate, but I'm the kind of person who likes to see/read redemption into everything, so this is just my rather optimistic interpretation of events.

Also, I don't necessarily ship the Hunter and the Doll, but I do think it's a cute ship and enjoy content for it...So you're free to interpret the internal monologue as platonic or romantic, whichever you prefer.

This is one of the only times I've used second person, so go easy on me...I chose second person because I didn't find third or first nearly as compelling for it.

I'd really really appreciate it if you could leave a comment!! They seriously do make my week, and give me the motivation to keep writing!!

I also have another Bloodborne fic about Vicar Amelia's transformation, I'd love it if you could check that out too!! Links in a reblog!!

The Offspring of a Dream:

“New Hunter”

“Mister Hunter”

“Hunter”

“A Hunter!”

“Moon-Scented Hunter”

“Miss Hunter!”

“Good Hunter of the Church,

"have you seen the thread of light?”

“Welcome home,

Good Hunter.

What is it you desire?”—

No name.

Not a greeting, nor title.

No adjectives or addendums like ‘holy’ or ‘accursed,’ ‘beast,’ or ‘man.’ Not a crow, or a wolf, or an avenger, or a knight. Nor a roar of what you hunted.

A lonely hunter without a name, or a word.

Just a hunter, who may or may not be good.

And it was a doll, a doll who had a dreamer, but was equally lonely—

Is this all in my mind? Did I dream her up?

It was this Doll who said you were good, every time you arrived in the dream, always ready to turn your desires, the echoes of a scourge, into strength.

She said it faithfully, and it was not easy to recognize when she said it, it wasn’t a greeting, or a title.

It was a prayer.

Because she had watched a thousand “good hunters” walk through the dream, and a thousand fall. A thousand keep her company, a thousand ask for her to make them stronger with the echoes of their killing. A thousand become drunk with blood, trapped in a very different dream, that some might call nightmare. And a thousand become something other than a hunter…something other than good.

A thousand graves.

Graves for the ones who woke up.

So with a title she prayed to the moon that this one—this one—would be good.

That’s all she needed. That’s all any of them ever needed; one good man.

The title ‘hunter’ was meant to be synonymous with good. A force of holiness to purge the impurity. …But their name became equivalent with evil. Or maybe it was from the very start.

The spreading corruption burned.

Before the blood parched their lips and ravaged their bones. After. At the end of the day, we’re all human. At the end of the day, we’re all beasts.

Born of the blood… undone by the blood…

So she—inhuman, human—she prayed that one day there would be a hunter who could fight the monsters and not become one. That the blood wouldn’t burn and coil and wrap its tendrils around them, twist them inside out, and make them something more than just a “good hunter”…and so much less. She cast goodness over you, as if reminding you not to give in to the beast. Not to give in to your humanity. Reminding you that though you were a hunter, though you were drenched in blood, with heart full of holes, and brain full of eyes, you could still be good.

She put her hands together and she prayed. She prayed, and she helped you on your journey, she channeled death into strength, she whispered, and she tended to frail, living flowers, and feeble, dying, old men, and she cried.

Any god-fearing man, not burdened with an overabundance of naiveté, would know that dolls don’t whisper. They don’t ask if you love them. They don’t move. They can’t help. They don’t pray. And they definitely don’t cry.

Dolls sit lifeless on the floors of children’s nurseries, and the abandoned workshops of bitter, maniacal, old men.

Is this just a dream? Will I know you when I wake?

What’s waking worth without you?

If the gods don’t love me I still promise to love you.

You watched human hands twist into claws, skin into fur, faces into tentacles, tongues into snakes, and eyes into eyes, and wondered if perhaps this doll, with her porcelain skin and hair, with her tears and prayer, if she was more human than the rest. This doll—who asked about gods and love, who cared for you, who hoped even the worst hunters might be worth something in another, better world—was more human than the offspring of an old, forgotten town. More human than we, who are born and die by the blood.

How was she born, and how would she die? What caused her to breathe, to come alive? Was it just our minds, some ill-gotten, internal eyes? Was something so primitive as hope or love? Or was it the twisted will of some faceless moon without a man in it?

Is it just me?

Is it my mind?

Tell me she’s more than children’s toys, and old men’s dreams.

Tell me she’s real.

Could something made of metal and mechanics, and the puppet strings of our own minds die?

Do dreams die when we wake up?

Or, in the end when men are all either monsters or gods, would she stand in the wreckage, the only real, awake thing left…the only thing left that’s still human?

When men become gods, do our creations become human?

She watched them fall. She watched them reach for bare threads of guiding moonlight with human hands, and howl at the same moon with a wolf’s cry, and she still had enough hope left in her to call you “good hunter.” To believe that you would be different.

Did she say this to everyone? Did she hope every time? Or was it just you? And which meant more? If she hoped despite just how many had failed, or if she saw something different within you alone?

Here you stood, steeped in the blood of beasts. Ugly thing. Killer. Cold and merciless.

And she called you good.

Did that mean she saw the blood, and the murder, and thought it was good? Or that she looked past all that and saw the good still?

How could she, a doll, an echo herself, know what it meant to be good?

Perhaps she was made by someone who had seen a world with good left in it. Or a world which was evil, but in which there was someone like her, who encompassed all the good in the world to him.

Perhaps that’s what she was to you too. The good. The human left. Without her you may never keep fighting. You had no one else, after all. Your friends were either mad, or intoxicated, or destined to die, or destined for…worse.

Is she just a trick of the moonlight?

She was the embodiment of hope.

You tried to be good. For her. For the world. They all did. But most became drunk on blood, or knowledge, and lost themselves along the way.

What is it you desire?

It always starts good. Goals, on paper, always seem so noble. In practice, so bloodthirsty.

Laurence made a church. A force of holiness and healing. And he turned the city into a madhouse, a cage for monsters.

Wilhelm made a school. A place of mindfulness and learning. And he dabbled in rituals to hide the moon.

The old hunters thought stealing a child wouldn’t incite the wrath of its mother.

They all thought the world could be saved, that the plague could end through quarantine or amputation.

When they cut off the diseased heads the blood only spread. When they stayed in their houses they went insane instead.

The world needed more than a simple fix to return to being “good.”

The hunters thought they were fighting for a noble cause. They thought they were all good…and they turned into the very beasts they fought, awaiting another hunter to spill their blood, and start the cycle again.

The hunters only did what they could; keep killing. That was all they knew to do to get rid of the the beasts in this brick forest.

They needed a hunter who would break the cycle. Do more than just kill and give in to the call of the blood. Who would seek the paleblood, and end this dreadful night.

Transcend the hunt.

But how to eclipse the chase when evolution without courage is the name of ruin?

A hunter who would look beyond today’s night, today’s hunt, today’s beasts. Beyond the blood. Resist its seduction. A hunter who could learn where all this started, find it. And do what hunters do best:

Kill it.

—(For sometimes death is freedom, at least when it’s a dream)—

Seek the paleblood. Hunt the great ones.

—(And sometimes waking up is far worse.)

The formless blood wanted to have a child. Perhaps he thought he was giving those he chose a gift of a sort. Only horror followed.

Every great one loses its child.

One particular woman, long ago, held the name of this broken town. Perhaps it was only fitting that the child of blood and name was born in voice alone.

This child’s formless cries echoed through more than the nightmare; through the waking world—(if you had enough eyes, at least)—calling you to comfort it, to silence it.

Could everyone in the town hear it? Is that what drove them mad? Listening to a child’s endless cries, with no hope of comforting it?

Many had tried to contact it. Some tried to become gods…and misplaced their minds in the process. But you found it. Knowing it was not to be exalted, but destroyed.

You were a hunter after all.

So you killed the only thing keeping it alive, the thing desperately trying to play a lullaby and sing it to sleep.

You yourself played a tiny music box for it, from the beginning of it all—that belonged to a family ravaged by the blood, the hunt, which held a song about love and loss—just to hear it laugh, before the nightmare let out it last.

Cords of thirds. Cords of three.

One from the child of voice. One from the child of night. One from the child stolen long ago, sitting in an old, abandoned workshop.

A workshop alive now only in hunters’ dreams.

You could have left your own nightmare long ago. You could have woken from this dream and believed the world was not so dark, not so strange, not so fascinating.

But this wasn’t the only nightmare you had to liberate.

There was another, another for which all not-so-good hunters were destined—(and thus you too if the Doll’s prayers were in vain). They sent you there with a piece of a drunken man before you yourself became, inevitably, intoxicated, in this bloody bar, so that you could, perhaps navigate sleeping minds with your sanity in tact.

We, the offspring of an old, forgotten secret. Destined and bound by the chase.

So our forefathers sinned?

Ludwig thought he was holy, fighting for a noble cause, and he stood, accursed, in a bath of the blood he spilled, trampling the ghosts of those he killed.

Is it possible there exist moonlight in even the darkest nights?

When we reach for the thread of light, none of us ever want to know what it truly is. Hope can be so vicious that way.

The church turned their eyes from their hands.

All too often, when men try to become gods—or something akin—they become monsters. There's a reason the moon is out of our reach.

Laurence thought the blood would heal. That the gods wouldn’t mind a little thievery. He thought they could keep their humanity in tact, as long as they prayed hard enough.

And he watched the world burn. Watched his hope turn his universe into a waking, walking nightmare. And he burned in his own broken Neverland, ever searching for his own lost, rotted humanity.

Maria, beloved apprentice Maria—

…Is that you, my dear Doll?

Who was there from the beginning. Who vowed to forsake the blood—including her own. Maria, so sickened by her actions, who threw the hunt down a well. Who vowed to in death to be the hunt’s secret keeper, and sat, alone, a lonely princess at the top of the clock tower, alive by the puppet strings of a nightmare—

She sacrificed herself, her values, to purge you from the plague of wild curiosity.

A corpse should be left well enough alone.

And at last, behind time, was a quaint, sad, little village, that lay dripping with secrets, ransacked for its eyes.

A quaint little village where it all started. Where the sky wept, and sun collapsed in on itself, and the great lake held too soft and depraved a secret.

Every great one loses its child…but this one lost his mother.

A quaint little village where a sympathetic mother fell from the stars. Where her child was ripped from her, dissected for parts, by the very people you once thought were good.

The wrath of an angry god is to be feared. But the wrath of a sympathetic god is far worse.

And the wrath of a mother is a lasting curse.

Death is freedom, at least in a dream. But when waking up is far worse, we rewrite the past within our dreams.

This was an orphans dream, pulling the hunt into a nightmare, as he waited to be freed from reality, as he waited for a hunter to rewrite the sins of their ancestors.

As he waited for a good man.

And the spirit thanked you. And the hunt thanked you.

And the Doll thanked you, for a shackle she never even knew was there had been lifted. She thanked you on behalf of the first hunter, for he slept a little sounder.

But there was one last dream that needed slaying:

Your own.

You could have woken long ago. You could have forsaken it all for the sunrise, and left someone else to find the answers, left someone else to be good.

It would have been nice to believe the world made sense.

It would have been nice to believe the dark side of the moon wasn’t made of blood and bones, haunting a poor, old man.

Few dreams offer you the choice to die before the bad part starts—(or perhaps simply to put an end to all the ‘bad parts’ you’ve gone through, to negate the possibility of more). But you would not bow to a happy, false reality.

Neither would you allow yourself to be taken captive by the nameless presence of the moon, made to perpetuate this hunt endlessly.

You understood the word “hunter” was never synonymous with good. They lost that title before the hunt even started. They lost that title when a little orphan was stolen from his mother.

You understood at last. It was her. Maria. The one who threw her weapon down the well in protest. She—(or at least, a version of her)—stood by your side, trying to guide you back all this time. Trying to guide you back to the beginning, where perhaps her sins could be atoned for. Where perhaps there could be good still.

So in a lonely field full of flowers, it was not you who were released from the dream.

You had enough eyes to see and slay the presence of the moon, who had orchestrated this all.

We’re all just puppets of the moon.

…But a cord of three strands is not so easily broken.

So in the end you neither woke nor dreamed, but saw the world as it was—though through newborn eyes. A child of the hunt. A child of the dream. Not destined to create a nightmare��but perhaps a better reality.

When the Doll picked up your small body, she smiled at last. She knew you’d succeeded, for this was unlike any hunter’s death, or transformation, she knew. She knew you’d atoned for the sins of your predecessors. She knew you’d freed the children, the nightmares, and the men.

And she called you “good hunter” still. For she knew the gods listened to her prayers after all. She knew that though you were a hunter no more—

You were certainly good.

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thestupidhelmet · 3 years

Note

What would you say are the core personalities of the six? I don't know if you've made a meta about this already since I'm fairly new here. Love your blog!

Thank you! 😊

I’ve written a few metas on the characters’ personalities or characterizations. But I’ll write up what I interpret their consistent core characterizations to be. First, a preamble.

Unfortunately, That ‘70s Show’s writers had a tendency to forget, ignore, or outright change the characters’ core characterizations, too often introducing new elements -- to serve plot -- that conflict with earlier established personality traits confirmed and reconfirmed by many episodes that followed. This is different than character development, which is grounded often in incremental changes over several / many episodes or even seasons.

Most of these revisions of the characters’ core personalities are negative. Only one I can think of is positive: Hyde’s in “Prom Night” (1x19). The core of his character gets a complete overhaul once his role as Eric’s villainous foil and rival for Donna’s affection is over.

Because of the show’s inconsistent writing, one can pick and choose which consistently depicted attributes are the truly canon parts of a character’s personality. Later in the series, these consistently depicted attributes often conflict. When I write fanfic and @those70scomics, I depicts the characters according to what I believe are their core personalities. Other people can reasonably view their core personalities differently.

Now to answer your question.

Fez

He’s insecure about fitting in with his group of friends and among Americans in general. This insecurity sometimes manifests as neediness with friends and girlfriends alike.

He’s loyal to his friends and generally caring. He doesn’t like hurting their feelings. He’s in touch with his emotions and sensitive, which means he can be hurt rather easily by his friends’ or others’ thoughtless remarks toward him -- or hurt by what he misinterprets as an insult (e.g., Hyde telling Fez he needs to act aloof to attract women, and Fez believing Hyde is calling him “a loof,” which Fez apparently thinks is a put-down).

He’s not defenseless, however. He’s got a quick wit and comes back with cutting remarks of his own or simply cuts off his friends with his catchphrase and its varieties (i.e. “Good day. ... I said good day!”)

He’s passionate, but this passion variously paired with his insecurity, neediness, and sensitivity can cloud his judgement, which causes him to go too far in many areas: dirty jokes, masturbation, pursuit of unavailable girls, eating candy, etc.

He suffers from Nice Guy syndrome with Jackie during seasons 2 and 3. This means he has a sense of entitlement to Jackie’s romantic and sexual affection, and his respectful treatment of her is predicated on the expectation of romantic and sexual reward. Once he realizes that she’ll never reciprocate his romantic feelings, his respectful treatment of her diminishes greatly.

In season one, he’s depicted as insightful to other people’s feelings and motivations. In seasons 1-4, he’s also depicted as romantic and a romantic. He’s a serial monogamist, but he suffers somewhat from toxic masculinity (e.g., calling Jackie little girl when he believes she’s overstepped her bounds) and sexism (e.g., often calling girls whores; once this insult is prompted by a girl who does not put out sexually, which is the opposite of the meaning of whore). With Rhonda, though, this toxic masculinity and sexism seem not to be evident.

He longs for intimacy, whether platonic (men) or romantic (women). See this meta about how the show writes Fez and Kelso’s relationship as near-romantic in later seasons while also (re)affirming Fez and Kelso’s canonical straightness to keep T7S’s universe a heteronormative one.

Fez is obsessed with losing his virginity, but for the first four seasons of the show, the depiction of this obsession falls in line with that of many teenage boys his age. It’s not out of the ordinary. Eric is shown to have the same obsession until he and Donna finally have sex. Further, Fez’s obsession is not so all-encompassing that he can’t put it aside for love. He does so for his love of Rhonda -- until “Everybody Loves Casey” (4x26), where the best parts of his core characterization are destroyed. See my meta The Deterioration of Fez’s Character for details.

My Take: I prefer to write the insightful, loyal Fez who sometimes doesn’t know how far to push a joke. He can be insecure, but he’s also got a strong moral center and sense of what’s right and wrong -- or develops this sense more thoroughly during a given story. He’s flawed but very capable of growing and changing due to his ability to examine his own behavior and love for his friends.

Kelso

In season one, Kelso is a math and tech prodigy who has little common sense and or will power. He’s also loyal to Eric and Hyde and clearly loves them, but his impulsivity and addiction to sexual pleasure drive him to act thoughtlessly. He displays a sense of entitlement but not a pathological one. He’s capable of apologizing for his thoughtless and entitled behavior. See this meta about “Ski Trip” (1x13) for an in depth analysis of Kelso’s behavior during that episode.

After season 1, his math and technology knowledge is gonet. His selfishness and sense of entitlement overshadow his loyalty to anyone (or anything) other than fulfilling his own needs and desires. His lack of common sense becomes cartoonish. He acts maliciously when he feels slighted, which happens when he doesn’t get what he believes he’s entitled to. He relentlessly pesters Jackie verbally and physically for sex when she just wants to sleep. He’s pathologically narcissistic, vain, and dishonest.

During the end of season 3 and beginning of season 4, however, he begins to grow and change. He experiences and express remorse toward Jackie for treating her so badly -- without any expectation of return. His selfishness fades significantly, as does his lying, but neither attribute disappears completely. He’s capable of putting his own wants and desires aside for Jackie’s, but she sometimes has to assert herself more than once for him to do so.

During the end of season 4, unfortunately, he not only reverts back to type, he also becomes worse. He rescinds his remorse and gives Jackie the responsibility for his cheating. He speaks misogynistically about women and her, and is just generally awful. See my metas Jackie Kissing Todd “the Cheese Guy” and Kelso’s Reaction and False Equivalency: Kelso’s “Most Romantic Gesture” Toward Jackie for further analysis.

In season 5, Kelso reaches the peak of his self-entitled narcissism, selfishness, hypocrisy, and possessiveness over Jackie. He interprets Jackie dating Hyde as an act of betrayal and an attack on his pride and self-esteem. He seeks out revenge on both of them, even while trying to “win Jackie back” with the same kind of maliciousness he shows Jackie in season 2 when she doesn’t forgive his cheating within a week of her discovering it.

Throughout the series, he makes unwanted sexual advances toward Donna. He tries to grope her breast repeatedly while she sleeps. He tries to sneak a glimpse of her breasts while she changes, and she’s so sick of his whining that she gives into what he wants (in “Class Picture” [4x20]). The writers intended this scene to be funny, but it’s actually horrific and parallels Jackie’s complaints about Kelso pawing at her and whining relentlessly for sex that she gives in so she can sleep.

He makes these numerous sexual advances on Donna when she’s in a relationship with Eric and when she and Eric are broken up. Yet he when he and Jackie are no longer together, he acts like Hyde has committed a crime against him for being in a consensual relationship with Jackie.

Without Ashton’s comedic timing and likability, Kelso would be unbearable to watch during seasons 1-5. Kelso is funny only because of Ashton’s performance.

But in season 6, Kelso gets another chance at a true character growth arc. He fights his selfish, cowardly tendencies to have a place in Brooke’s life and their child’s (whom hasn’t been born yet). He works hard to prove his ability to be a good father. and himself worthy of Brooke’s love. Even more, he makes an act of utter unselfishness and sacrifice by letting Brooke and their baby go -- to live Chicago with Brooke’s mom -- because that’s what’s best for them, not him.

That being said, he still demonstrates an amount of selfishness toward his friends.

Season 7 again drops him back to status quo -- almost. Brooke is gone. He’s barely involved in his child’s life. He dates Hyde’s newfound sister, in part to burn Hyde. But at least he treats Angie with respect and is faithful to her, as far as we’re shown. So that part of his growth from season 6 stuck.

Throughout all the seasons, he’s shown to have a vast imagination. He fancies himself an inventor or an astronaut. He comes up with some wild -- and some might say insane -- ideas. He’s creative despite not being very skilled.

My Take: I generally write Kelso as a selfish, self-entitled narcissist because of when my T7S fics take place in the series. I also use his lack of common sense as comic relief. But I prefer the Kelso capable of growth and change, the one who is willing to put his own needs and desires aside for the benefit of other people. This latter characterization development has continued in @those70scomics, and I’ve given him major growth arcs in my stories Reflections Through the Glass, Beneath a Shattered Sky, and Those Who Play with Demons (which I have yet to finish writing).

Eric

Eric has a compassionate heart. He cares about his family, his friends, and people in general. But he also suffers deep insecurities about his masculinity thanks to Red’s treatment of him. Eric is more in touch with his emotions, like his mother, and Red has trouble relating to him. Red also worries Eric might be too emotionally vulnerable to survive the real world, which is why he’s so hard on him (see “Hunting” [2x13]).

Because of modeling his dad gives him on masculinity, the clear messages that Eric isn’t masculine enough, and what he absorbs from observing how society expects men to behave, he suffers from bouts of chauvinism. Donna.is regularly the recipient of Eric’s insecurities about his manliness. He often feels threatened by her self-confidence, athletic ability, intelligence, etc. -- because she’s a woman and his best friend / girlfriend / fiancée. He falsely believes her strengths highlight his weaknesses as a man.

But he’s also patient and unselfish with Donna, putting aside his own sexual desires for her need to go slowly or for celibacy (in season 6). He’s supportive of her and all his family and friends, including Laurie and Jackie -- both of whom he has an antagonistic relationship with. He’s very loyal to his friends.

Eric uses sarcasm and his quick wit as defense mechanisms. Some might say he’s a little stunted in his growth due to his continued enjoyment of playing with action figures. He indulges at times in his mom’s infantilizing of him while also trying to assert his adulthood.

He has a specific vision for his future: marrying Donna and having a family with her. This vision, however, does not include a career. He doesn’t seem to be passionate about much else besides his relationship with Donna (and having sex with her) and Star Wars. This is a failing of the writers. Eric’s storylines are so Donna-focused that the show gives little space for what else he might be passionate about.

Eric is very much capable of recognizing, owning, and learning from his mistakes. He can be a total ass, but he eventually realizes his behavior and makes correction.

Donna

Donna is confident, athletic, intelligent, and a staunch defender of gender equality (when written consistently). She’s loyal to her friends. She often puts aside her own pride to protect Eric’s self-esteem. She gets angry at him almost only when he’s earned it. See In Defense of Donna (an essay in eight parts) for an in depth analysis on her relationship with Eric.

When she’s in severe emotional pain, she becomes self-destructive. Losing her relationship to Eric at the end of season 3 and her mom moving to California sends her into downward spiral. Earlier, we see this self-destructive trait in “Eric Gets Suspended” (2x09) when her parents pay little attention to her due to their obsession with the latest fads.

Her parents’ lack of boundaries with her -- exposing her to their marital troubles and making her a pawn in them, as well as not hiding their sexcapades from her -- create a strong sense of boundaries within her.

The state of her parents’ relationship often influences her confidence in her relationship with Eric. She’s afraid sex will destroy her relationship with Eric; but once her parents renew their wedding vows, she has faith enough that romantic relationships can last that she finally feels safe enough to have sex.

She strongly values her independence. She doesn’t want her life and prospects dictated or limited by her romantic relationship with Eric. She witnesses how her dad’s controlling chauvinism stifles her mom’s own independence and dreams for herself, and she refuses to let Eric’s insecurity and chauvinism do that to her.

She’s passionate about writing, both journalistic and fiction, as well as music. She’s playful and forgiving. She doesn’t fit the gender norms of the 1970s. She’s as comfortable playing basketball with the guys as she is decorating a room or gymnasium for an event. She has a mixture of femininity and masculinity, which only Jackie seems to insult her about.

Jackie

At her core, Jackie is a compassionate, generous, and insightful person. She gives far more gifts to Kelso during their relationship than he does her -- despite her always stating how much she wants presents. She gives Donna lots of advice and support during Donna and Eric’s transition from friends to lovers. She continues to give Donna advice and support throughout the series about her love life.

But Jackie can also be very controlling, insulting, and selfish. She’s quite vain, but she’s also insecure about all she acts secure about. See Does Jackie Become Less Insecure about Her Physical Appearance when She Dates Hyde? If So, Why?

Jackie has abandonment issues because of her parents. Her father isn’t home a lot and often shows his love for her through presents. The latter is why she wants / expects to get gifts from her boyfriend(s). She develops a marriage obsession out of wanting a guarantee she won’t be abandoned by her romantic partner, despite that marriage doesn’t actually guarantee this.

She also has a tendency toward self-delusion. She so needs Kelso to be whom she wants him to be that she goes into denial about his infidelity and all the negative qualities of his I described above. Eventually that delusion is broken, only to be replaced by delusions about Hyde. She transfers her feelings of (relationship-)safety from Kelso to Hyde.

Only when Kelso breaks her heart for the final time at the end of season 4 does she break out of this delusion cycle. She fantasizes about what her future with Hyde might be like, but that isn’t the same as deluding herself. Plus, Hyde consistently disabuses her of these unrealistic fantasies and offers her a much healthier and happier potential reality.

Once she’s with Hyde in season 5, she begins growing and changing significantly. Instead of complaining of her suffering as she does, for instance, during her S2-S3 break-up with Kelso, she hides the fact her mom has completely abandoned her after her dad goes to prison. She tells no one her mom hasn’t come home from Mexico.

This is not one of the healthier changes she makes in season 5, but fantasizing away her pain no longer works as a defense mechanism. Instead, she believes she has to face her struggles alone. Fortunately, Hyde discovers the truth and gives her a safe place and, in a very real way, becomes a literal safe place for her himself. (The writers screwed this up for the sake of a season-ending cliffhanger, but that’s beyond the scope of this meta.)

Jackie can be stubborn and determined. She wants what’s best for the people she loves, especially Hyde. She’s extremely forgiving. She doesn’t trust her ability to take care of herself, but she learns that she can (through getting a job, Hyde’s encouragement, her public access TV show, etc.)

She’s a complex character. When people don’t look beyond her surface, they find her easily dismissible. The writers too often wrote her this way during the series. But they also added many layers to her, as I’ve described in this meta.

Hyde

See the following metas I wrote about him:

Hyde’s Core Characterization Steven Hyde: Organic Character Development Steven Hyde: Inconsistent Characterization Hyde’s Character Shift from Season 4 to Season 5 Why Hyde Closes Himself Off More Emotionally in Season 5 Pathological Passive-Aggressiveness: A New Personality Trait Added to Hyde’s Character in Season 5 Hyde’s Potential Career

#That 70s Show #That '70s Show #Jackie x Hyde #Eric Forman #Michael Kelso #Ask #Anon #My Meta #My Essay #Meta #Essay #Core Characterization #Donna #Fez #Jackie #Hyde

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unexpected-possibilities · 3 years

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Saudade: Ch 10&11 Meta

I was realizing I did a lot with the magic in the last two chapters of Saudade (Chapters 10 and 11(posted last night, link in my pinned post)) and haven’t been able to provide proper explanation of the development on it that I’m doing, or even what I take the magic of the ToA universe to be. To be honest, I still don’t fully understand my own stance on interpreting it, so this is partially to help me sort out things in my own mind.

I will preface this by saying: if you have not caught up on Saudade, this is spoilery towards the second half! Please, if you’re interested in this meta and the overall story, do some catch-up reading first and I promise you’ll enjoy and understand this tenfold. Everything potentially spoilery is under the cut, but for those of you who don’t follow the story, there is plenty of headcanoning the magic just in general that you can read if you’re interested.

So, here goes. There’s a lot we don’t know or get yet about the magic of the Tales of Arcadia Universe. From what it appears to be, there are various types of magic, magical practices, and energies in ToA. It would give me a severe headache to really delve into everything, so for the sake of my sanity, I’m sticking to what Wizards gave us.

It seems that in the fields of magic, there are, at the very least, three main designations.

1) Classic Magic that revolves around energy, runes, incantations, and the like -- Merlin and Douxie’s magic, in particular. It’s very all-encompassing and seems to be a practiced art, maybe one is born with some innate talent or skill as with any kind of magic, but much of the ability comes from learning it, practicing, so on.

2) Shadow Magic, revolving around the Shadow Realm and manipulation of shadows -- Morgana and Claire’s magic. Morgana does not seem relegated to only the use of Shadow Magic, which I would guess has to do with her being an apprentice of Merlin.

3) The natural magics -- this would be the magic that Vendel has, or what the hedgewizards have. A primal form of magic that often presents in the user in a way related to elements or natural forces. For example, the four general elements, but also more refined towards things such as Zoe’s lightning magic, plant-based, healing, and so on. I would think that the most common forms of hedgewizardy would be the four natural forms; fire, water, earth, air. They’re considered classics and fairly simple, so often these people don’t really search out specialized jobs for their fields, or if they do, it’s things where they can subtly use these skills. (i.e. a firefighter could be either a fire HW* or water HW, works either way. Maybe a skydiving instructor is an air HW who ensures things all go smoothly, a landscaper sneakily shifting the rocks in the ground to make it easier to dig, and so on). [HW will stand for hedgewizard/witch for my purposes here]

But as we jump more to specialized talents like tech wizardry, things get a little more complex. Now, a HW is more skilled in working with technology, maybe you have electricians who don’t have to worry about live wires or the Hex Tech workers who can manage to fix almost anything. But while their magic might stem from electricity-based magics, they can’t quite call down lightning or anything. Same with how a plant-magic person couldn’t manipulate rocks, even though it stems from earth magics. Healing magic might stem from water magic, but the mage has no ability to manipulate water. Basically, specific magic can and does develop from the basic fields.

But this doesn’t explain where Zoe’s lightning magic or, say, magic regarding the paranormal, sits. The paranormal magics sit outside this realm of natural magics, bordering Shadow magic, a sort of foot in both types kinda thing. It’s more of a learned and practiced skill than the natural magics, and it can be developed over time on top of preexisting talents. See: Tara, the fire HW who will be returning to the story as a medium. I will go back to this once it becomes relevant in Saudade.

Zoe, however, has actual lightning magic. I consider her magic to be very near, if not, the strongest, most powerful, and most dangerous of the natural magics. It is pure elemental magic in the highest form, derived from what makes up the worldly elements (states of matter(plasma, in this case)). In being such raw and primal magic, it’s incredibly sensitive to the user’s emotions and highly volatile. More than a few mages have been killed by their own magic in cases like this. And it’s not a magic that can be learned, either, you’re either born with it or receive it otherwise (see: Taking Flight, Zoe being struck by lightning as her magical origin story). There will be a whole post coming one day on purely Zoe and her magic because I love exploring it so much.

So what about Saudade, again?

Right, right, let’s go back quite a few steps. So, in the two most recent chapters of Saudade, I delve a lot into the idea of “magic is emotion.” And because magic is emotion, magical signatures and connections can be used to reflect on a magic-user’s emotions. Depending on the connection between two magic users, the strength of the bond and what can be understood of it varies.

Ever since Chapter 8, the whole confessions scene, Zoe and Douxie have been a lot more in touch with their own and each other’s emotions, both in a physical and emotional/magical sense. Now, it’s been a while since that, and they’re beginning to see just how much an extended bond like this can mean, no walls between them. It’s not telepathy or mind-reading, it’s more like reading someone’s body language, but on the level of magic, a bit more intimate than physical cues, though is still something either of them can shut off to the other. Emotions, however, can most certainly be processed and understood through the connection via certain types of magical signatures produced, and hence is how Douxie detects Zoe’s emotions. In Chapter 11, Zoe feels all sorts of emotions from Douxie without even needing to cross into the territory of magical connection because there is physical contact, and they’ve dropped all boundaries for the time being, leaving each other perfectly exposed to any and all emotions, and each other’s magic.

Merlin strictly forbid any sort of relationship so long as Douxie is a wizard because of the consequences it could mean. I haven’t explored it much past the small scene in Taking Flight, but Merlin and a late of lover of his discovered the painful truths of emotions and magic, resulting in a death. Merlin doesn’t want this to come of Douxie, and tells him such. But with Merlin now passed, and a world that Douxie is no longer just getting by in, but rather living and mastering, things have changed. And on top of that, Zoe and Douxie’s connection is really unlike any other, even to Nari, who has been around since the beginnings of magic. And yes, Merlin also advised against even strong platonic relationships because those can totally count as strong emotions.

So Douxie and Zoe’s connection is the intersection of two extremely powerful magics in it’s own right, with lots of untapped potential to be discovered...as we see in Chapter 11, even what seems impossible just might be possible. But as with all things magic, it comes with a price and a fairly significant toll. There is much left for these characters to learn about themselves and their magic.

#toa wizards #toa headcanons #meta #fanfic meta #wizards meta?#toa zoe #douxie #zouxie #headcanons #my fanfic #analysis #lots and lots of analysis lol #thanks for reading all that lol #hope it helps make things a little easier to understand #my ramblings #toa magic #toa merlin #toa morgana

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hannigrammest · 4 years

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The Story of How Hannigram Became Canon to Those Who Are in Doubt

This post is mostly meant for the casual viewers who I noticed have joined Hannibal Subreddit after the news about the S4 negotiations. It is great that we are growing in numbers, but there seems to be a misunderstanding in regard to Hannigram (the romantic relationship between Will and Hannibal) and people who ship this pairing.

Hannigram is not a fanon pairing. It is not ‘just in the heads’ of silly girls or overly-romantic viewers. It is a canonically acknowledged couple that is supported massively by the cast and Bryan Fuller. Furthermore, this romance is the essence of the show, because Will and Hannibal find everything in each other. No, their relationship is not based merely on romance or sexual attraction. But also no, a more explicit romance in S4, which seems very likely and has been hinted at many times, will not destroy the complexity of the relationship. It will add to it.

The first part is canon evidence of Hannigram season by season. The second part of this huge post is tweets, quotes, and photos with Bryan and cast in regard to Hannigram. (Sorry, I can't seem to break the post in parts for easier reading, the formatting links don't work here for some reason.)

THE SHOW ITSELF

Season 1 is obviously the most ambiguous one in this regard because the relationship only starts to develop. And yes, the majority of scenes can be interpreted as the blossoming friendship, because it is a friendship first and foremost. Even several rather romantic moments can be technically classified as such — but only if you ignore the looks that Will and Hannibal give each other and the later narrative. Still, this is all ambiguous at this stage.

When Hannibal offers Will to take care of Abigail, he repeatedly calls them her “fathers”. Not “uncles” or “caretakers” or any other option — fathers, and while this word by itself might not mean much, it is clearly supposed to hint at what kind of relationship is going to unite Will and Hannibal in the future. In 1.07, Will doesn’t come to the appointment and Hannibal is pining. It is a very powerful and explicit scene, with Hannibal slowly walking to his chair, checking his calendar to make sure Will had to come, touching the phone longingly, then abruptly making a decision and going to look for him. All of this is accompanied by the corresponding music. Is this scene romantic? Some may see it this way, some may disagree. But I think most will agree that such obvious pining is a common romantic trope that's often shown in media. The focus and the way the scene is presented are everything: they didn't just show that Will didn't come and that Hannibal decided to find him. No, we had a slow focus on all his hesitant actions and his longing for contact. In any way, at this stage, it is no longer a mere friendship. It goes deeper, to the point where Hannibal can’t stand not knowing where Will is and craving contact enough to drive for hours in the search for him.

Once again in 1.07, Will brings Hannibal a bottle of wine out of blue and acts awkwardly and shyly when declining the invitation to join the dinner party. We don’t know why Will did it and it is never addressed again, but I think everyone will agree that bringing a bottle of wine to another person for no reason and just for him has a rather romantic shade.

Then, in that same scene, Will claims he can’t stay because he has ‘a date with a Chesapeake Ripper’. It is a joke, of course, but once again, it’s fiction. The word choice is very deliberate, and Bryan loves to foreshadow the upcoming events.

In 1.08, Will drives an hour in the snow to tell Hannibal about the kiss with Alana and Hannibal exhibits a very controlled jealousy, making a snarky comment about the long drive and telling Will that he had been motivated not by attraction, but by the need to find a balance.

In 1.09, Hannibal calls him and Will Abigail’s fathers again and touches his shoulder. Yes, it is ambiguous, but when (especially) you know what’s coming, you can’t help but notice how this touch is too hesitant and fragile for a mere gesture of friendship and unity. I’ll just say, even my father caught up on it right away, which is saying something.

These are the most explicit things I recall from season 1. Now, season 2 is way more direct.

Many scenes of Hannibal pining, sitting with a glass of wine and staring at Will’s chair at his time of appointments is a common romantic trope. Yes, it can be interpreted in different ways — for example, Will has already become a part of Hannibal and Hannibal misses him as the person who has the power to understand him. However, I feel like I have to emphasize the fact that it cannot be the only reason. Hannibal has already met people with extreme empathy before, such as Pazzi. He has also met people who were happy to join him and who had similar mindset, as Tobias Budge. Hannibal wasn’t interested in them, but he’s interested in Will. Will is special because he is himself, and like Hannibal will say later, love either pays you a visit or it does not. It clearly did with Will.

Soon after Will is released from prison, he goes to Hannibal to start the implementation of his and Jack’s plan. What does he choose to do? He dresses up and polishes himself up, presenting himself to Hannibal in the way that we have never seen him before. The first thought that comes to mind is ‘seduction’. Consciously or unconsciously, Will makes himself look as attractive as possible.

In 2.08, Hannibal touches Will’s face and holds it, staring into his eyes. This is romantic. It is one of the most popular romantic tropes that ever existed. ‘Transcendent’ love doesn’t require this kind of very intimate touch to be displayed. More than that, things become very dangerous here because if there had been no explicit follow-up, Bryan would have been accused of queerbaiting. Fortunately, it wasn’t the case.

In 2.09, Will has a dream where Hannibal directly calls him his ‘beloved’ several times. In 2.10, Hannibal treats Will’s hands very gently and we get camera focusing on it thoroughly. It is a deliberate depiction of eroticism that's often used in romances to create and underline romantic and/or sexual tension. In the same episode, we have a beautiful sex scene, seemingly between Hannibal and Alana and Will and Margot. However, it is there to show a very intimate and all-encompassing connection that is developing between Will and Hannibal, and it is structured this way specifically. Will reaches orgasm when he sees the Wendigo, a reflection of Hannibal. The words used before, like Hannibal's words about "never touching", are said to Alana but put on the image of Will.

Alana notices the shift in this relationship and asks Will and Hannibal about it. They talk about “crossing boundaries” and the fact that they “know where we are with each other”, and Alana clearly remains suspicious. In the end of the episode, Will and Hannibal have an intimate dinner full of lingering glances.

In 2.11, the episode starts with the eating of ortolans, which has being pointed out as an allusion to blowjob by the creator) If you have missed it, just re-watch this scene again with this in mind. It is very explicit, to the point of being uncomfortable. Hannibal’s reaction to learning that Margot is pregnant from Will is to hint Mason about it, thus endangering her and her child. Granted, he seems to genuinely regret it, but the deed is done. It is a jealous and possessive reaction, which has been further confirmed by Mads. During the con, he said: "If Margot had Will’s baby, it would be very hard for Hannibal to get over it. He’d be jealous and very grumpy." In this same episode, Alana looks at the burnt ‘Shiva’ that Hannibal has left for Will and calls it a ‘courtship’. So, we get the explicit confirmation that Hannibal is courting Will. And no, he isn’t courting an emerging killer in Will because at this point, he thinks that Will has already embraced his potential by killing Randall and Freddie and eating her. To Hannibal’s mind, Will is almost ready, but he is too lovesick to stop. Can you imagine him digging up the corpse of ‘Freddie’, decorating it, and displaying like that? It’s hilariously romantic — in a dark way.

In 2.12, Will chooses Hannibal by freeing him from the trap and then not giving him up to Jack after he mutilates Mason. Hannibal draws a fanart (!) of himself and Will as Achilles and Patroclus. For those who don’t know, these two are popular examples of lovers. This isn't just friendship. The reference to Achilles and Patroclus is often used to hint at a romance, it's a popular trope as well.

In 2.13, Hannibal talks about ‘imago’, an image of a loved one, and then says that he and Will have an image of each other and offers him to run away. Two men running away together to reunite with their daughter is romantic. Will chooses Hannibal once again by calling him, but it is too late. We get a heartbreakingly tender and intimate touch between them before the stabbing. As Mads said, "Will is the light of Hannibal's life and Hannibal killed Abigail to break Will's heart the way he broke his." Just as he said that "Hannibal was blinded by love."

Season 3 is where all subtext is taken into text. Hannibal has chosen Bedelia as a substitute to Will, and note how many people believe they become lovers. So, why Will and Hannibal running away is platonic, but Hannibal doing the same with Bedelia is not? Even though when the only person he does love is Will. We see that he is dissatisfied with Bedelia and is growing restless.

In 3.01, we get a flashback to Gideon who teases/mocks Hannibal by saying, ‘If only that company could be Will Graham’. So, in the very limited interactions, even he managed to glimpse the attraction, because let’s be honest, he didn’t have time to understand all deep layers of this relationship, but his phrase has been included deliberately.

In this episode, Hannibal meets Anthony, practically a Will mirror. He looks similarly, is smart, sassy, and he is even enthusiastic about Hannibal’s crimes. Ideally, he is everything Hannibal has wanted. But what does he do? He kills Anthony and turns him into a Valentine heart for Will. Before that, he makes an example of the heart from Da Vinci’s ‘perfect man’. In 3.02, Will recognizes it as such and calls it a Valentine and a ‘broken heart’. He asks himself, “Do I still want to go with him?”, and answers, “Yes”.

In 3.03, we get the first ‘in love’ confirmation. Hannibal is shaken after seeing Will and hearing his words of forgiveness. When talking about him with Bedelia, Bedelia says, “Betrayal and forgiveness are best seen as something akin to falling in love”, and Hannibal replies, “You can’t control with respect to whom you fall in love”. The longing for Will has made Hannibal reckless, and Bedelia notices it by mentioning that he is going to get caught with this kind of behavior. In the end of the episode, Hannibal once again says that Will makes him feel love. He adds, “Love. He pays you a visit or he doesn’t.” Which love can either come to a person or not? Technically, these words could be interpreted as platonic love, but in the beginning of this very episode, we got a confirmation that the nature of this love is romantic. Will, in turn, is still reverent about Hannibal and even travels to his home to find out more about him. His attitude changes when he sees Chiyoh, who he sees as another toy abandoned by Hannibal, and it brings back the insecurities. We see it through how often Will compares himself and Chiyoh and how he is filled with anger and bitterness again (which were absent before this meeting). Chiyoh sees right through him and repeatedly states that Will is wrong to compare them, but Will persists.

In 3.04, we see that Will spends a lot of time sitting in Hannibal’s house, which is yet another romantic trope. Even Alana knows where to find him. Will admits to Jack that he “wanted to run away with Hannibal”, which also has a romantic connotation. Before that, Will was making the boat that he later uses to come and find Hannibal. This scene is intercut with his Mizumono memories, namely, with Hannibal's face that emerges every time he moves yet another part of the engine. This is a vivid demonstration of Will trying to repair what is now broken. He also literally sails after Hannibal, which is considered extremely romantic by many tropes at once. Chilton calls Will and Hannibal’s interactions a “flirtation” in this episode.

In 3.05, when discussing what to do with Hannibal, Chiyoh says, “I told you, there are means of influence other than violence” and kisses Will, thus showing him what others means exist. It is yet another direct allusion to the romantic part of Will and Hannibal’s relationship because Chiyoh basically offers him to kiss Hannibal instead of trying to kill him.

In 3.06, Hannibal says the famous, ”If I saw you every day, forever, Will, I would remember this time”. He said the same words to Clarice in the books shortly before having sex with her. It is an utterly romantic phrase that just cannot have any other meaning, especially when you count the narrative and the source material. Will adds some more romantic phrases, like “We are conjoined, I wonder if either of us can survive separation.” Such level of love is incredible, but you don’t say things like that to a person who you feel can just understand you. Nor to a simple friend or a spiritual mentor. It’s everything at once, especially when coming from Will. Things go badly after that and we get a knife and a drill. Scenes in Mason’s house are great and show that Will and Hannibal could be a great team. Hannibal saves Will and carries him home bridal-style. He changes his clothes, puts him into bed, and waits for him to wake up while writing down formulas that could change the time and erase some of the events. When Will wakes up, Hannibal admits that he has discovered Will in his Mind Palace, victorious, thus giving the power into his hands. When Will rejects him (by saying he’s not going to miss him), Hannibal gives himself up, knowing that chances are, he will never get back to freedom and he will never see Will again. Prison is the ultimate act of love because Hannibal is helpless there, completely on Will’s mercy. As Mads said during the con, "Will forgetting him was the last thing Hannibal wanted to hear, so that’s why he surrendered. The only way Will would see him again is if he’s in jail, and he would eventually visit. He was afraid he’d never see Will again otherwise."

3 years pass and we see that Will has a family. But — surprise! He is unhappy. He doesn’t even go fishing with them to have some time for himself. He hides the letter from Hannibal and goes to read it in the middle of the night. He never returns Molly’s ‘I love you’, never attempts to touch her, can’t even keep up a conversation with her, and literally sees himself falling to pieces. At the earliest opportunity, he jumps at the chance to see Hannibal. He didn’t have to do it. We are shown that he has recreated the crime scene perfectly, better than ever before, but Will lies to Jack about it and asks to see Hannibal.

In 3.09, we have a very powerful scene of Hannibal and Will reuniting, exchanging long sorrowful and heartbroken gazes. Hannibal says, “I gave you a child”, which puts him and Will in a category of parents again. He says that Will has chosen a ready-made family and Will doesn’t argue. We get a “Murder Husbands” reference from Freddie.

In 3.10, Will seeks Bedelia out. He acts catty and jealous. Bedelia calls him “Hannibal’s bride”, and calls Will out on visiting Hannibal just because he missed him, which Will doesn’t deny. He is confident and snarky at those scenes, using every opportunity to cut into Bedelia for having a relationship with Hannibal and surviving it in even better shape than he did. Bedelia says, “My relationship with Hannibal is not as passionate as yours”, and then adds: “You are here visiting old flame. Is your wife aware of how intimately you and Hannibal know each other?” They literally place Hannibal on the same level as Will’s wife. Then we have, “Your experience of Hannibal’s attention is so profoundly harmful yet so irresistible, it undermines your ability to think rationally.”

In 3.11, Hannibal sends Francis after Molly and Walter. Will doesn’t really comfort them, we see clearer than ever what a wedge exists between them. Hannibal asks, “How is the wife?”, which is another display of blatant jealousy. Will gets it, and he can’t deny the truth any longer.

In 3.12, we have the exchange that should have settled the debates about romantic part of relationship once and for all. Bedelia compares herself and Will to Hannibal/Bluebeard’s wives, and mentions how she would have preferred to be the last — the one that Will is. Will asks, “Is Hannibal in love with me?”, and Bedelia replies, “Could he daily feel a stab of hunger for you, and find nourishment at the very sight of you? Yes. But do you ache for him?” Will’s look and his silence speak volumes as everything fades to black slowly. This is it, the textually explicit confirmation. Fans didn’t come up with the idea that Will and Hannibal are in love, it was stated directly on screen, several times.

Shortly before the confession, Bedelia says, "It excites him, knowing that you marked in this particular way." Personally, I always felt some sexual subtext in this phrase, and it is confirmed when we regard the similar scene in the book. Clarice gets sperm on her face and these same words sound. Granted, the situations are very different, but it proves that the phrase does indeed have sexual connotations, and it was deliberately planned like this.

Will devises a complicated and deadly plan after this. He sets up Chilton, which can be seen as courting gift to Hannibal, and in 3.13, he lies to everyone to break Hannibal out of prison. Bedelia calls him out on it once again, saying, "Can't live with him. Can't live without him." Will doesn't deny it - he confirms it. When Hannibal says he'll agree to the plan if Will says 'please', Will does it - in an obviously flirting way. Hannibal calls him a 'cunning boy', which is once again obvious flirting, especially considering the way he says it. His plan results in the deaths of numerous officers, but Hannibal is free. We have another romantic trope where Hannibal pretends that Will is a hitchhiker and asks if he’s going his way. In the house, they have another loaded conversation where Will admits that he doesn’t think he can save itself, and that it’s fine.

Predictably, Will can’t handle seeing Hannibal killed, so he reaches for his gun. We know the rest. At the cliff, Will finally accepts the truth, and he gives the fate a chance to stop both of them or to set them free. They fall into the ocean under the Love Crime song, and since the water symbolizes reborn, we can guess what happens after that.

Post-credits scene indicates that Will and Hannibal have paid a visit to Bedelia and are in the process of eating her while she’s hiding the fork to stab one of them as he approaches. The deleted epilogue to the series shows that they are in perfect harmony now.")

Who's too lazy to read all of that, you can just check the quotes below and watch some fan videos where direct lines from canon are presented. My two favorites:

Reciprocity

Crazy in love

QUOTES

Initially, during S1, Bryan said he wanted to explore the idea of “heterosexual male friendship”. However, he later admitted that he was worried about negative homosexual stereotypes surrounding the imbalance in power in the relationship between Will and Hannibal, and in the podcast due to the beginning of American Gods, he confessed that he “wanted to approach “Hannibal” from the angle that no one has explored before — the angle of romance”.

During the airing of S2-S3, and beyond, Bryan was the one who pointed out romantic and even sexual subtext, and promoted Hannigram further. The cliff scene is officially labeled as "Kiss_alts".

Their love is queer

A collection

Canon. Original tweet is deleted, so only Bryan's is left. The person asked him to say whether Hannigram is canon.

Falling

Last wife

They Flip

Always

Will and Hannibal survived the Fall

Mere teasing, but it shows that Bryan does acknowledge sexual tension between Will and Hannibal: They did change clothes as well as Their lips were busy (to the question of what Will and Hannibal were doing in the car in TWOTL).

Bryan's favorite quote from the show: Is Hannibal in love with me?

Finally, the shirt Bryan wore at one of the latest meetings

Hugh on why it took Will so long to realize Hannibal is in love with him

Hugh on Will's reaction to Bedelia's answer about Hannibal being in love with him: ‘Oh crap, maybe this thing I’m feeling is love’

Hugh: Relief from loneliness

Hugh: It's romance

Mads: It was love at the first sight

You know better than to breed

Will Graham is covered in Hannibal’s body fluids

Bryan: I feel one is omnisexual and one is heterosexual and there's a lot of influence going back and forth, who knows with a six pack of beer what would happen: http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/hannibal-creator-i-wanted-to-be-sure-we-had-an-ending-for-the-story/

To the question of whether explicit Hannigram was a part of the initial plan, Bryan Fuller stated: "No, it naturally evolved because I guess I was absorbing so much of Mads and Hugh's performance, which felt like it was growing in intimacy, and it would have been inauthentic not to address it. Because all of these characters, and particularly Bedelia, was able to call out what she had witnessed [between Hannibal and Will], it seemed like a natural conclusion. I remember when I turned in the rewrite pages where Will asks Bedelia if Hannibal is in love with him, I got a note from Don Mancini, one of our writers who was always pushing for more homosexual text – not just context or subtext but text, text, text – and he was like, "I'm so glad you put that in there! They said it! They said it!" http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/hannibal/interviews/a667077/hannibal-bryan-fuller-talks-season-4-sexual-fluidity-and-how-will-became-clarice-starling/

Discussing what motivated him to verbally acknowledge the romance between Will and Hannibal, Fuller mentioned: "It felt like we had to s–t or get off the pot, ultimately, because there had been so much going on between these two men that when Will asks, "Is Hannibal Lecter in love with me?" it is very much about death and the romance between these two men. There is a quality to connections that go above and beyond sexuality. You can have this intimate connection with somebody that then causes you to wonder where the lines of your own sexuality are. And we didn't quite broach the sexuality. It was certainly suggested, but the love is absolutely on the table." http://tvline.com/2015/08/29/hannibal-series-finale-will-lecter-cliff-bryan-fuller-interview-season-4/

Remembering how the song for the finale of the series was created, Fuller said: "It was interesting. She [Siouxsie Sioux] was like, "I want to write this song, and what are the things I should really be thinking about?" And I was like, "this is a love story. A love story between a full-fledged psychopath and someone who has nascent psychopathic abilities." Actually, Hannibal Lecter is not a psychopath; he's something else entirely. But it's a love relationship between two men: one of them is a cannibal, and one of them understands those cannibalistic instincts all too well." http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/hannibal-creator-i-wanted-to-be-sure-we-had-an-ending-for-the-story/

Bryan Fuller: "Clarice never, until the end of Hannibal, submitted to that romance, whereas Will seemed to be on a slippery slope right from the beginning, so there's a contrast to be drawn between them." http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/hannibal/interviews/a667077/hannibal-bryan-fuller-talks-season-4-sexual-fluidity-and-how-will-became-clarice-starling/

Bryan in the commentary: "“After killing Francis Dolarhyde with Hannibal Lecter, he realizes this is exactly what Hannibal Lecter has wanted all along. He has wanted a partner in crime - a murder husband, as it were - and the sad truth of it all is that Hannibal was right. Will did enjoy it. Will thought it was a beautiful, powerful thing." https://omnisexualhanniballecter.tumblr.com/post/134099645797/after-killing-francis-dolarhyde-with-hannibal

Hugh during PaleyFest 2014 (prior to S3): "They are in love or they love each other, that's unquestionable. I think it's a platonic love... but it's rich in... (audience and cast laughs) Ok, we've done two seasons so far... so platonic love and they recognize each other as unique in the world, they reflect each other in a way, it's like profound recognition and relief that comes with it. And they are good looking guys." Mads agrees: "Exactly. Losing him or what Hannibal did with him in the two seasons is probably the closest he has ever been to loving anyone. And what love means in his universe we have to see later on. But it's heartbreaking everything that happens to poor Will is also heartbreaking for Hannibal."

Hugh: You could say that during the second half [of season three]-I mean, obviously we’re jumping ahead here, but Will comes back to Hannibal. He’s now got this family, and Will, independently and pretty quickly, starts coming to the conclusion that it’s not sustainable for him to have that family. Like, he’s not the guy. He’s not the right person to be able to look after them, to live with them. It’s not compatible with who he really is. And you could argue that Hannibal is just driving him more quickly to come to that realization. So in that sense, it is kind of brutal, tough love. His love is saying, “Know thyself.” Mads: As Hugh is saying, it’s unavoidable. It’s going to happen sooner or later. Might as well happen sooner, before he’s stuck. [Interview http://oh-dr-lecter.tumblr.com/post/129331180920/theyll-say-were-in-love-fangoria-august-2015]

Mads Mikkelsen on ‘Which scene has been the defining moment?'

"Probably one of the moments early on, maybe mid first season, where I spend some quality time in therapy session with Hugh and he’s flying away thinking about something and I have the chance, Hannibal has the chance, to watch him. And he becomes very warm watching him. He sees not only this brilliant person but he sees something he loves. I think that is the definition of Hannibal." [https://twitter.com/noforts/status/1071952333221888000]

Bryan and Hugh discussing Will's motivation in TWOTL at the cliff and beyond (in the commentary to S3):

Hugh: The point was that it wasn't the horror that drove Will to do this, the horror was secondary, it was a horror in reaction to how much he loved what happened between him and Hannibal. We have seen so many moments of Will is covered in blood and shaking and horrified and this moment he suddenly realizes it is his true self.

Bryan: I remember the day you shot the closeups, you both came running to me and I remember Mads was particularly giddy, giddy as a schoolgirl, he said we really went for it, we really went for the love story, we almost kissed and it's all there and you can use it.

Hugh: We had to push in that direction so that there is no point pretending otherwise.

About Bedelia's leg:

Bryan: The false interpretation is she cut her leg which is a crazier version of Bedelia than I understand. Of course the intention is they survived and there are three place settings."

Hugh, answering the question what is happening to Will and Hannibal now: "Let's just say they're on a beach somewhere. [Interviewer] Just chilling on a beach? [Dancy] Yeah, just chilling on a beach. Drinking something out of a coconut."

Also, the reports from people who visited one of the cons mentioned the following."Today at Red Dragon Con it was announced by Mads that Hannibal and Will are now married, have dogs which he calls “the ugly carpets” of the relationship, and live in seclusion for 4 years before hunting together." Regardless of whether it is going to come to fruition or not, this is how Mads imagines Will and Hannibal's life Post Fall.

Mads in May 2018:

"“I think that Hannibal and Will… they’re not really alive without each other. They are a piece of the puzzle for the other one’s soul.”

A great video where Mads talks about Hannibal and his feelings in S2 final.

Question: Was Hannibal suspicious of Will before he smelled Freddie Lounds or was he completely clueless about it at that point?

Mads: Hannibal doesn't have a masterplan. He's living from day to day and he's seeing possibilities and opportunities, and one of them is Will Graham, who he is obviously in love with, in a certain way - that way. But I think at that time, Hannibal has been blinded by Will Graham. He believes truly that he will walk down the path with the light, hand in hand, with Will - and Abigail. That's his dream, that's what he wants, and I think it does surprise him and it does break his heart. It is a turning point for Hannibal when he becomes the cleaning man instead of the man who loves. Until then, he'd been a man full of love, and after that, I think he is... slightly angry. It was a surprise for him. He was tricked.He got blinded by love.

Interesting interview bit:

IGN: Reba’s final scene was another where you got to really pull direct quotes from the book. But here, I was reading it as Will can also be projecting about himself, as he talks about what it might be like to have a serial killer in love with you. Was that in your mind too, given you had these great quotes from the book but that it could definitely be maybe be a bit more of an echo here, given the situation.?

Fuller: Oh, absolutely. It was a great synchronicity of events where everything that Will was saying to Reba in the novel actually applies to Will Graham in the television series. So there was the want of seeing that scene because I haven’t seen it in any of the adaptations where we get to see Reba, post all of this, and have a quiet moment between the two people who were in love with serial killers.

Bryan: "My ship is canon" (https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/status/1072599788581998593)

Bryan about Will and Hannibal's relationship: "Will accepts who Hannibal is. It’s also narcissistic, in the way that we fall in love with people who make us feel better about ourselves and who make us feel like we’re a better version of ourselves. That makes us feel more secure in our bodies, in the dysmorphia of who you are on the inside versus who you project on the outside. That disconnect narrows dramatically when somebody sees you, understands you, accepts you and loves you. It’s transcendent." (http://collider.com/bryan-fuller-hannibal-silence-of-the-lambs-interview/)

Bryan about Will's reasons for jumping, surviving, and attacking Bedelia with Hannibal: "I think one of the reasons it seemed so organic for Will to go over the cliff with Hannibal at the end was that, in his mind, as he understood the universe in his world, he had peaked. It’s also stopping a monster and stopping himself from becoming a monster, but I think part of him was thinking, “That was beautiful. I don’t think I can do that again and feel as high as I do now.” Everything overwhelmed him and he went over that cliff because there was an apex to his experience, in a way that was poetic and dramatic. ... The kind of suicide where somebody jumps off a bridge, part of them hopes they survive and part of them wants to be over. I think a lot of people are hoping for some percentage of survival that may change them because they’re looking for change within themselves. So, I think there was some bit of that. For the ending with Gillian [Anderson], there are two place settings for a reason." (http://collider.com/bryan-fuller-hannibal-silence-of-the-lambs-interview/)

Bryan about Will and Hannibal's relationship in S1: The relationship between Will and Hannibal in this first season is the seduction. It is Hannibal Lecter recognizing in Will Graham for the first time in anyone that he has ever encountered in his life the opportunity for a friendship, a real friendship, because he sees something in Will Graham that he also sees in himself. They are both unique in their crazy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzU7O7Q0R5U)

Hugh about the start of Will and Hannibal's relationship: "It’s an instant love between them, it is as if Will met not the best chess player in the world, but the only absolute, the only person he can play with, that enters in the room - or rather, in his life - with a chessboard in hand, and this provokes in him a pleasure and an incredible relief. When we find Will at the beginning of the second season, he was betrayed and thrown in jail, so he is not in a really enviable situation, but the connection he had with Hannibal has remained unchanged, it is something which he can not get rid of. This time, however, he manipulates their connection because Hannibal still needs him and their friendship, but beyond the practical utility must be said that the bond with Hannibal is, even for Will, a source of uncontrolled, involuntary pleasure.”

Mads about the start of relationship: "Hannibal sees an opportunity in this young man. And so he can hopefully, one day, walk hand in hand down the road of life." https://k-s-morgan.tumblr.com/post/187266698258/hannibal-sees-an-opportunity-in-this-young-man

Mads during S1: "When he sees Will, he recognizes himself to a degree. [Hannibal] has empathy, but [he] uses it as a tool; Will has empathy, but he doesn’t know what to do with it. Lecter sees an opportunity to open this man’s eyes and see his full potential realized. And he also sees the opportunity for a friend, which is probably not what he’s had too many of. Even though Hannibal is the puppeteer, he really loves Will." https://screencrush.com/hannibal-lunch-preview/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

Bryan: "The tricky thing with this show is that it is a story about two men and their relationship. But if it were just about male point of views, it wouldn’t be interesting. I feel like we haven’t done as good of a job, in Season 2, of representing the female characters and their point of view of the world. I think there’s a greater opportunity in Season 3 to do that, and do more of that. In Season 2, we knew the story was about these two guys, and everybody else around them were pawns. Jack Crawford was a pawn. Alana Bloom was a pawn. It was all about what was between Hannibal and Will Graham." https://collider.com/hannibal-season-3-details-filming-europe/

Bryan about S4: I'm still hoping for more Murder Husband adventures!

source: https://www.reddit.com/r/HannibalTV/comments/72bk89/the_story_of_how_hannigram_became_canon_to_those/

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sometimesrosy · 6 years

Note

What does a platonic soul mate entail? How can you tell the difference between platonic and not platonic in soulmates? I'm not really sure so I though I'd ask about it

A soulmate is a person with whom one has a feeling of deep or natural affinity.[1] This may involve similarity, love, romance, platonic relationships, comfort, intimacy, sexuality, sexual activity, spirituality, compatibility and trust.[2] [x]

So a soulmate can encompass all varieties of affinity.

Platonic love (often lower-cased as platonic[1]) is a term used for a type of love, or close relationship that is non-sexual. Its symbol would be the white rose. It is named after Plato, though the philosopher never used the term himself. Platonic love as devised by Plato concerns rising through levels of closeness to wisdom and true beauty from carnal attraction to individual bodies to attraction to souls, and eventually, union with the truth. This is the ancient, philosophical interpretation.[2] Platonic love is often contrasted with romantic love. [x]

the modern version:

“Platonic love in its modern popular sense is an affectionate relationship into which the sexual element does not enter, especially in cases where one might easily assume otherwise.”[9] “Platonic lovers function to underscore a supportive role where the friend sees her or his duty as the provision of advice, encouragement, and comfort to the other person […] and do not entail exclusivity”[10] [x]

BUT, if you’re talking about what JR said about Bellarke, you have a confusion. He did NOT say “Platonic Soulmates,” he said “Non romantic Soulmates,” which might seem like splitting hairs, but is not. Because platonic is a love that does NOT encompass the possibility of romance. It is a classical ideal of love that defined by its non sexual and non familial love. You know what? People have been debating this for literal eons, so go take a google gander and poke around a bit to see what all they’ve been saying. It’s non sexual, non romantic and does not really leave room for it to develop in that way. It is complete within itself.

I would argue it doesn’t fit Bellarke because they have shown a physical attraction, and Clarke at least has shown jealousy (which means a desire for exclusivity.) It might be considered the platonic ideal, because they have a connection that surpasses the physical and works on a soul level and reached that union with the truth, but you’d have to take the sexual and romantic element out of it, and both of them have shown that they do actually have a sexual/romantic interest. If Bellamy thought of Clarke as platonic, then he would not have a problem or feel guilt about it in regards to Echo. However…since that is the case, both of them may be currently non sexual or romantic, but they both have feelings that make it sexual, romantic, and a problem for exclusivity with the third member of the love triangle. B/E makes Clarke jealous, and Bellamy guilty. Therefore, not platonic.

Nonromantic does not have that definition, though. There’s no classical weight behind it. And seeing as this story pulls heavily on classical ideas, I think that’s an important distinction. Non romantic soulmates means soulmates that are not romantic. No connotations on being complete with that state. As far as I can tell. Just not romantic.

And considering the rest of the article in which he said that emphasized MULTIPLE times that they weren’t romantic YET, hadn’t gone there YET, left the door open to it happening, and BLATANTLY stated that he would NOT SPOIL IF Clarke and Bellamy were or were not going to be romantic.

So if he’s saying “I’m not telling you whether or not Bellarke is platonic or romantic,” then there’s a reason why he didn’t say that Bellarke was PLATONIC. Because that’s not what he said and non romantic doesn’t mean that.

Why he couldn’t just say “soulmates” and leave all the romantic or platonic distinctions off it? IDK. Maybe it was too close to the assumption that soulmates means romance. So maybe he thought if he just called them soulmates, people would have taken it as confirmation in the romance direction.

So he used this ambiguous term and emphasized how it was a journey that hadn’t been finished yet and he wasn’t going to tell.

#the 100 #platonic #bellarke #is not platonic #and it's been developing towards romance not away

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velkynkarma · 6 years

Text

End-Of-Year Fic Meme

Better late than never, right? @butteredonions tagged me a while ago, but I wanted to wait for Failsafe to be done since it was technically written in 2017 haha. Let’s do this!

Last Year’s In Which I Was Also Very Late

STATS:

List of Fics Posted: All Voltron, all planetonicplatonic. All my 2017 work should now be on AO3.

Silence is Golden ~ Shiro-centric, ensemble, 10291 words (Exchange fic for @bosstoaster )

Your Princess Is In Another Castle ~ Allura-centric, 7228 words (for @platonicvldweek ) Pillar in the Dark ~ Hunk & Keith focus, 12930 words (for @platonicvldweek )

In My Sights ~ Lance-centric, 7099 words (for @platonicvldweek )

What’s in a Name ~ Lance & Keith focus, 7485 words (for @platonicvldweek )

Phantasmagoria ~ Pidge-centric, Pidge & Shiro focus, 11960 words (for @platonicvldweek )

One Hundred Percent Probability ~ Shiro & Slav focus, 14044 words (for @platonicvldweek ) Altar of Storms ~ Ensemble fic, How to Train Your Dragon AU, 35292 words (for @platonicvldweek ) Knights of Lion ~ Ensemble fic, Shingeki no Kyojin AU, 24027 (for @platonicvldweek ) Advanced Maintenance ~ Shiro-centric, follow-up pieces to Routine Maintenance, 4863 words Prince of Memory ~ Shiro-centric, 20169 words A Thousand Burning Eyes ~ Zarkon-centric, 55900 words (for @voltrongenminibang ) When the Cat’s Away ~ Keith-centric, Keith & Space Mice focus, 22758 words (for @voltronbang ) The Packrat ~ Coran-centric, Coran & Space Mice focus, 11519 (exchange with @maychorian ) Mirror Image ~ Shiro-centric, Kuron(”Ryou”)-centric, 32415 words (for @platonicvldweek ) Whisper in the Dark ~ Keith-centric, 21326 words (for @platonicvldweek ) Cotton Guardian ~ Lance & Hunk focus, 8749 words (for @platonicvldweek ) Road Trip to End Times ~ (ch4 only), Ensemble, 7783 words (for @platonicvldweek ) Seven Vargas ~ Shiro-centric, 18006 words (for @butteredonions ) Little Crystals ~ Assorted prompts & characters, 19627 words Failsafe ~ Shiro & Kuron(”Ryou”) focus, 49930 words

Total number: 21 (counting Little Crystals’ assorted prompts as 1) Total word count: 403,401 words

Ship/character breakdown: Ship breakdown: No ships! All gen :) Character breakdown (all counts based on -centric or focus for a character, with or without the inclusion of other chars) 8 Shiro-centric or Shiro-focus 4 Keith-centric or Keith-focus 4 ensemble fics (team focus) 3 Lance-centric or Lance-focus 2 Kuron(”Ryou”) centric or Kuron(”Ryou”) focus 2 Hunk-focus 2 Space-mice focus 1 Pidge-centric 1 Allura-centric 1 Coran-centric 1 Zarkon-centric 1 Slav-centric Not counting assorted prompts in Advanced Maintenance & Little Crystals

Characters that had the main focus: Unsurprisingly, Shiro was the main focus, but I do like that I tackled all the major characters at least 1 time. Breakdown questions beneath the cut!

Specifics:

Best/worst title? aka Bane of VelkynKarma Best title: Prince of Memory. It has a specific meaning in the fic, and also has a more meta meaning, but I always liked that the meaning was never really clear until the very end of the fic. Worst title: Little Crystals. It’s...okay, I guess, and I’m not so torn up over it since it’s just a prompt depository, but it doesn’t feel very creative even so.

Best/worst first line? Best: Mirror Image The Kerberos mission is an unmitigated success. I always liked this start, just because even in the middle of telling the reader something was successful, they’re already questioning. Kerberos doesn’t go well, and we all know that. Why’s it a success?

Worst: What’s in a Name “Here is the data you requested, Princess Allura. Though I am not sure it will help your cause any.” Not really a terrible opening per se, but boring in comparison. The reader might keep going to see who’s speaking (usually the case with opening with dialogue) but it’s not super engaging in and of itself.

Best/worst last line? Best: A Thousand Burning Eyes A thousand burning eyes staring at him out of a deep void, patient and hungry and waiting. I deliberately planned for this last line while writing this fic. I just loved the idea of, after the reader seeing all the awful things Zarkon had done in response to this threat, leaving it hanging with Shiro seeing the same thing. It leaves so many questions. Will he walk the same path? Will he make the same mistakes?

Worst: Whisper in the Dark In the meantime he’ll do whatever he can, and somehow that feels like exactly enough. It’s not a terrible ending in and of itself, but after all the action and horror of the entire fic, it felt a little flat by comparison. I don’t generally dislike my endings, but I was in a bit of a rush to finish this before platonicVLDWeek dropped, and it probably could have been smoother.

General questions:

Looking back, did you write more fics than you thought you would this year, less than you thought, or about what you predicted? Way more than anticipated. I don’t think I’ve ever written this much for any other fandom, ever.

What pairing/genre/fandom did you write that you would never have predicted last year? I don’t do ships, and the only fandom this year has been VLD. Genre? Hmm...I’ve forayed into some fluffier, comedic, or lighter sick-fics, mostly due to prompt challenges and exchanges with @bosstoaster and @maychorian, so thanks for that guys. What’s your favorite story this year? Not the most popular, but the one that makes you the happiest. Aw geez. I love all my fics, but if I haaaad to pick? Either Prince of Memory or Mirror Image. I reaaaally love playing with the concept of memory in unusual ways. Actually on that note, Failsafe was fun to play with in that regard, too.

Okay, NOW your most popular story. Technically that’s Parasite Knight according to my 2017 stats on AO3. However, I count Parasite Knight towards 2016 since that’s when it was written. That means Pillar in the Dark is the most popular of 2017.

Story most underappreciated by the universe? Probably A Thousand Burning Eyes, but this is hardly surprising. It’s Zarkon-centric, sooo low popularity to begin with. Not only that, but it released prior to S3 and the introduction of Zarkon x Haggar as an official pairing, meaning he was even less popular and developed at the time.

Story that could have been better? Between the use of Keith and Lance (but wanting to avoid Klance backlash) and sort of skirting around my actual views regarding the Blade of Marmora, What’s in a Name came off as overly cautious and a little weak. I think I was too afraid of stepping on toes or starting a fight somewhere. There are some prompts I’d taken for various prompt events that I wasn’t really happy with, specifically this one with Ulaz. I’d never done prompt challenges before so I was really trying hard to fill anything that came my way. Unfortunately the requester wanted Uliro, and I’m not comfortable with ships, nor am I particularly comfortable with Ulaz as a character (I personally don’t interpret him as a character capable of being on even friendly terms with Team Voltron). The result was me attempting to parrot other character interpretations I’d seen of him, but it fell painfully flat, and the either of the characters could have been swapped out with another without really changing anything. I learned my lesson from that, though: in the future I’ve learned to reject prompts or character requests that I’m not on board with.

Sexiest story? I don’t do sexy D: So...none I guess Saddest story? Probably Prince of Memory, which apparently made a number of people cry at work/in class. Oops. Sorry about that. Although Failsafe could probably give it a run for its money now. Most fun? Altar of Storms because DRAGONS! I watched Dragons episodes and movies so many times and had a ball imagining the fight scenes. Story with single sweetest moment? I don’t really have any sugar-sweet moments, but I have a hell of a lot of bittersweet ones. Prince of Memory and Failsafe are the biggest source of these, although Cotton Guardian has got some sweet moments that turn creepy-cute later too. If I had to pick an excerpt for personal fave though? This scene from Failsafe, which was literally the entire reason the fic was written. (Not lying. Thought of this scene at work and went, ‘well shit, I need a fic to go with this’):

He’s moving before he even realizes it, lurching from where he’s sitting on the edge of the bed to reach for Ryou. Ryou flinches when he feels Shiro move, but then Shiro has both arms around him, drawing him in close to hold him instead. The hug is fiercely protective, encompassing every instinct Shiro has to shield and defend, but even so he’s mindful of his strength. He has to be gentle, so gentle, because Ryou is so breakable now. He supports Ryou with his Galra arm with the utmost care around his back and side, and his real hand rests against the back of Ryou’s skull, pressing his head gently against Shiro’s shoulder. This close, he can feel every protruding rib of Ryou’s and every jutting angle on his too-thin frame, even through the blankets he’s still wrapped in. It’s heartbreaking, and yet at the same time makes Shiro want to curl even closer around him to shield him from anything in the universe that would dare take away his second chance. “No,” Shiro says, fierce and soothing all at once. “No. God, no. Ryou, listen, we would never do that, okay? You're not just some experiment to us. Never to us. Never to me. Okay? We will never do that to you, ever. Ever. “And I’m so sorry that we ever did anything to make you believe that,” Shiro adds. He’s so sorry, more than he can ever express. He should have known better. He should have fucking known. “That’s our fault. That’s my fault. But you’re safe here. That will never happen.” Ryou is completely still in Shiro’s arms. Even his breathing hitches as his harsh pants quiet down. For one frightening moment, Shiro is so afraid that Ryou still doesn’t understand; that his mind is still trapped in some terrible reality where he expects to be discarded over something he never had any control over. But after a moment, he starts trembling again, and his whole body loses tension. He goes completely limp, until Shiro is the only thing holding him up. His head turns weakly, pressing into Shiro’s shoulder just a little more, and after a moment Shiro can feel his one remaining hand struggle weakly out of the blankets until his fingers can curl around the edge of Shiro’s vest. “ ‘m sorry,” he mutters weakly into Shiro’s shoulder. “Don’t be,” Shiro insists. “It’s not your fault. You have nothing to be sorry for. No matter what happens, you are always safe here.” The words seem to break something free in Ryou’s head. A long, slow shiver wracks his entire body, and his shoulders begin to shake as he buries his face in Shiro’s vest. Relieved, exhausted, and sick, he cries quietly into Shiro’s shoulder over his own stay of execution.

Hardest story to write? A Thousand Burning Eyes, just because so much technical work went into it. I basically had to re-watch the entire first 2 seasons while writing it to get everything from Zarkon’s point of view, and plan the timing exactly. Not to mention explain how his entire empire happened as a result of trying to save the universe. There was a lot of research and watching the same scenes over and over. It took forever.

Easiest/most fun story to write? I was not expecting Silence is Golden to be as easy to write as it was, or to develop into something quite as silly as it did. (Keith, I swear...) Once I had the plot it basically wrote itself in a day.

Did any stories shift your perceptions of the characters? I did a lot of writing with Keith this year, which helped I think in the long run. I was...not happy with the S2 revelations for his character, not gonna lie, and to this day I’m still not really with the whole ‘Keith is Galra’ plot point. But playing around with it in unusual ways (specifically with the Darkness Calls series) helped to figure him out a little better and let me at least come to terms with it.

Most overdue story? Shiro’s story in Mirror Image is a concept I’d been sitting on since almost right after S2 dropped, but I didn’t release it until around Halloween, and only after 2 more seasons and the introduction of the clone!Shiro theory. The real most overdue story still isn’t out yet

Did you take any writing risks this year? What did you learn from them? Boy did I ever! I’d never done prompts before, which was an exercise in writing things outside my comfort zone (and also, in learning when it was okay to say ‘no’ to going outside the comfort zone, too). I participated in @platonicvldweek week multiple times, submitted work for 2 bangs, and even helped moderate one. And I did a few more prompt exchanges, too. It’s been a wild year for risk-taking with writes.

What are your fic writing goals for next year?

Tackle some of those characters that only had 1 centric piece Build some series more. It’s fun, turns out! Participate in more events if I can swing it Inspire people to art moar Maybe sketch more stuff to go with my art (that’s not totally writing but who cares)

Happy New Year a month into the new year

#Velkynkarma writes #writing meme #voltron #fanfiction #fanfic

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violetemerald · 7 years

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Oliver Queen?

This is an answer for: http://luvtheheaven.tumblr.com/post/164336916472/send-me-a-character-and-ill-answer-these

1: sexuality headcanon - heterosexual, but romantic orientation-wise he’s on the aro spectrum, I don’t know where. Details on some of my rough thoughts there:http://luvtheheaven.tumblr.com/post/159752574632/headcanon-oliver-queen-as-aromantic-spectrum and basically I’m convinced that multiple aro-spec interpretations make sense, not at once but depending on your interpretation. (I also shared this same exact thing on AO3 http://archiveofourown.org/works/10705410 )

2: otp - Felicity (Olicity), although starting seeing the series wth 1x07 had me kinda hugely supporting Helena/Oliver for a bit. I’ve since pretty much forgotten that was once an OTP of mine on this show though. I’m a huge fan of exploring the dynamic between Oliver&Sara or even Oliver&Laurel, but… it’s complicated. Not really the hugest Olicity shipper, but they are my otp for both of their characters.

(more below cut)

3: brotp - I’m not a fan of this term although the more all of fandom uses it, the more I’m worn down and i don’t hate it the way i once did i guess. It still feels really weird to me as encompassing of all platonic bonds, even family? Even with huge age differences? Even when “bro” would be the last thing out of either character’s mouth?

Ok so my answer. Hmm. Idk I really really love a lot of platonic bonds Oliver has, and my level of love for each kinda shifts through the seasons. I loved Tommy&Oliver a ton in season 1, especially for what it would mean to Tommy, actually. More than for Oliver. The conversations Barry and Oliver have seem to get more special to me each crossover ep, they have a really interesting and enlightening dynamic *especially* where Oliver is concerned and it’s slowly grown on me. I definitely love Oliver&Diggle, that is intense and deep found family brotherhood in canon and they are everything. I think my love for Thea/Oliver has dwindled a bit over the seasons. I also love Oliver&Quentin more than ever since Laurel’s death. I think they might be my favorite dynamic to look at throughout every single season of the show, perhaps tied with Oliver&Diggle because both are so complex and have so many scenes, so much story to work with, so much footage to vid with, etc. I’ve never seen Quentin/Oliver vidded actually (hmm… ideas…)

4: notp - I like this term more. I think Laurel/Oliver have zero sexually charged chemistry to me but mainly it’s the Oliver slash ships that I just can’t see, especially Barry/Oliver? Or god, I’m still scarred from my first ever? forray into Arrow fanfiction confronting me with Thea/Oliver as a sexual ship?? NOO why people.

5: first headcanon that pops into my head - well I don’t have many of these most of the time but two I’m thinking might be 1) that he never intended to have children, probably decided he didn’t want kids at some point before finding out about William but I’m not sure if it’d be before or during or after the island. And 2) before the island he drank a lot of alcohol ans a lot of coffee. After the island he only drinks rarely at special occasions and only a tiny amount, and doesn’t need caffeine at all, thinks it messes up his perception of his surroundings so basically avoids coffee. Is this disproven by any scenes in the show? Probably. I don’t know. I’ll look when I finally rewatch.

6: favorite line from this character - Not really something I have memorized lol. I don’t just “have” a favorite line but. When I was recently trying to vid an Oliver character study I noticed this line he said to Laurel at the end of season 1 and I love whay it says in general to tie together pre-island and post-island Oliver:“Those five years didn’t change me. They just they scraped away all the things that I wasn’t and revealed the person I always was, which is the person– That’s who you always saw. I don’t know how you saw it, but you did.”Also though I just was looking on a page of Oliver Queen quotes to see if something inspired me as a fave and idk, I do like from season 4:“I need to believe that no matter what happens in our lives, no matter how much darkness infects us, I need to believe we can come back from that!”7: one way in which I relate to this character - this is a tough one for me, I love him and care about him but he’s so different from me. But probably that he doesn’t really feel like an adult/ start getting his life together until older than average is a pretty good way the two of us are similar. And also maybe that he’s had experience with people having stronger feelings for him than he has had back and not knowing how to deal with it (somewhat related to my aro headcanon).

8: thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character - um... Idk. It's pretty bad when he is telling his mom he got a girl pregnant and oh, it's not laurel, and again later awkward when he has to talk about that mistake of his to team Arrow, etc... a moment like when Thea points out to him that he might be The Hood because the souvenir he brought her back from the island was indeed an arrowhead is also a contender.

9: cinnamon roll or problematic fave? - i don't think of him, typically, as really that problematic, but he is a murderer and tortures people and i guess that makes him closer to that side of the spectrum. He's not really a bubbly cinnamon-y type of guy anyway lol. The way the show handles the topic of suicide or PTSD, or maybe even grief itself, when it comes to him is also pretty messy and a little problematic but that's not "his" fault either, it's not problematic from a standpoint of the character's choices or motivations, just perhaps problematic circumstances/ reactions in terms of what it is teaching viewers? Idk.

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toraonice · 7 years

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I don't think you're homophobic, a bad person, or any of that and am sorry you're getting outright hate BUT I think you're missing a lot of the point. I am not going to presume that you aren't LGBT, but I am unsure if you understand how LGBT people are irritated at how het pairings as "overt" as v*****ri are typically accepted as they are (/cont)

(cont) yet so many gay pairings portrayed in the same vein are “ambiguous” or argue that it isn’t canon. The “they’re DEEPER than romantic love” is also hurtful as people aren’t discriminated against for friendships and erases what makes them so special to LGBT fans.

(cont 3/3) Essentially, I think although you have good intentions in trying to be objective, with what I said in mind when you add separate commentary such as pointing out that soulmates can be platonic or the late night drama thing it does deeply hurt people, because it sounds like you’re trying to downplay them—intentionally or otherwise

Hello! First of all, thank you for making a concrete example and articulating your point logically!

I’m taking this occasion to write a long reply that encompasses my view of Victor and Yuuri’s relationship also with regard to heterocentricity. It’s long, but hopefully it’s exhaustive…

I think some people may be a bit wary about this topic and interpret my words in a negative way. For example, by saying that their bond is “deeper than romantic love” I am not trying to say that romantic love is a bad thing or that they cannot be or become lovers. I actually see it as something positive, not negative. There are people who know each other, start dating, have a passionate love story and then break up within a year. I believe that, since the bond between Victor and Yuuri is not limited to romantic love (which can be included) but also includes respect, friendship and other feelings, this makes their relationship deeper than two people only bound by romantic feelings.

Also, when I said that soulmates can be platonic and that the Japanese Monday dramas are not necessarily centered on love stories, I was trying to be fair to all interpretations. I don’t mean “so this proves that Victor and Yuuri cannot be in a romantic relationship”; it just isn’t something that proves either theory.

Regarding Japanese dramas.. Not sure how many people are familiar with it, but in the 2nd Tiger & Bunny movie there is a scene with the 2 protagonists on the roof of a building that is commonly referred to by fans as “gekku” (the same kind of drama as the scene of Victor and Yuuri at the airport). Usually this kind of scenes, in the TV dramas, feature a man and a woman, but when “gekku” is used to describe something unrelated to dramas, like scenes from an anime, it often includes a slightly humorous nuance, very similar to when two people are fighting and someone tells them “you look like a married couple”. (The scene itself is usually serious and when fans use “gekku” they don’t mean to make fun of it, but at the same time they don’t seriously mean to imply that the characters are romantically involved)

I agree on the fact that if Victor and Yuuri had been a man and a woman everyone and their dog would think that they’re in love with each other, while part of the reason some people are skeptical about it is that they are both men. I myself don’t really it like when, especially in series where the sexuality of characters is not clear, two characters of opposite sexes are seen as more likely to fall in love with each other than characters of the same sex. This happens because some people think that unless a character is declared as homosexual they must be heterosexual because “that is the standard” (these people in many cases are not even trying to be homophobic, they just do not realize that what they are implying is heterocentric). I don’t think that there is a standard, and of course there are many more possibilities than just “heterosexual” and “homosexual”, therefore if a character’s sexuality is unconfirmed I am usually open to any possibility.

I will stray a little from YOI. I was an enthusiastic X-Files fan at the time the series was still airing and the protagonists weren’t officially lovers yet (yeah it’s a long time ago but I might not be as old as this makes you think lol). I was also a member of the official forum and identified myself as “intellishipper”, fans who shipped the protagonists but didn’t necessarily want them to become romantically involved in the series unless it was relevant to the story (normal “shippers” just wanted them to get together). This is because I liked X-Files for what it was — a sci-fi thriller drama — and I didn’t want it to suddenly become a love story or focus too much on the romantic relationship of the characters. In fact, to this day I still don’t really like how their romantic relationship was handled in the series… (even though I’m a shipper!) X-Files taught me that sometimes, even if the characters you ship officially get together, depending on how it’s portrayed it might be disappointing, and in that case maybe it’s better that everything is left vague and that you keep on fantasizing on your own… (Sorry if someone disagrees about the protagonists’ relationship in X-Files, this is just my opinion)

The reason of this digression is to explain that the way I view Victor and Yuuri’s relationship and its portrayal within the series is very similar to my experience with X-Files. I personally like them together, but since the series is fundamentally a sport anime about figure skating, to me it’s fine if they don’t confirm whether they are romantically involved or not, because either way there are enough hints to be perfectly able to perceive them as in love with each other even if it’s not stated out loud. At the same time, I respect people who want them to officially get together and people who prefer to see their relationship as platonic too, because in the end everything is open to interpretations and therefore I don’t think it’s correct to force one interpretation on others.

I understand that people who see this anime as important for the LGBT+ community would prefer that they are confirmed as lovers because we would have a “regular” (non-BL) anime featuring an official homosexual couple with a strong, healthy relationship, which would be a step forward in the portrayal of LGBT characters in Japanese anime too. However, exactly because it’s a Japanese anime, as I tried to explain in a previous post a few months ago, the local cultural background is an obstacle to that, therefore I wouldn’t be surprised if even in future works they never confirm anything. Also, what Yamamoto said about “relationships without a name” too makes me think that maybe she doesn’t find it important to give a name to their relationship but she just wants to portray a very strong bond between two characters which viewers can interpret how they prefer. Kubo too made a few tweets last August that suggest how one of the reasons they didn’t use a man and a woman is that they did not want people to automatically interpret their relationship as romantic “just because they’re a man and a woman”. If you read that negatively you might think “does she mean that if they are both guys they cannot be seen as romantically involved?”. I don’t know what she meant in detail of course, because I’m not inside her mind, but I also think it can be interpreted in a positive way: if the characters are a man and a woman people will see them as automatically in love only because of their genders, regardless of the deepness of their relationship; however, if they are guys the average viewer cannot apply their heterocentric point of view to them and they will only see them as in love because their relationship really suggests that.

By the way, I still think that YOI, even without confirming anything, is an important step forward for the portrayal of LGBT+ characters in Japanese anime because it shows two male characters having an intimate relationship (however you want to interpret it) without their surroundings going “eww gross” or making jokes about them. In the series, no one says anything or questions Yuuri’s sexuality when he decides to interpret the role of a woman in his early version of Eros, no one ever makes fun of Yuuri and Victor’s relationship, no one looks grossed out when they see them with wedding rings (Phichit even congratulates them for their “wedding”). As Kubo said, within the world of YOI no one is discriminated for what (or who) they like. Everything is just portrayed as normal. In a way, the fact that any possibility is viewed as normal might also be the reason why they don’t feel the need to declare anyone’s sexuality or whether they are romantically involved or not, also because in the end whether Yuuri and Victor are engaged or not, or are having sex or not, is not really relevant to their performance as figure skaters. The aspects of their relationship that are relevant to the story are what has already been shown to us.

To sum it up… I understand the various points of views, including the fact that a part of the fans would prefer to see Victor and Yuuri in a confirmed romantic relationship (be it because of their personal liking or because they would like more outspoken LGBT+ representation), but as long as the creators don’t confirm anything I will stay open to any possibility. I’m sorry if some of the things I said were taken the wrong way and I hope that what I wrote above was enough to explain that they weren’t meant as something offensive or negative but were just my attempt to be unbiased toward any possible interpretation. I myself am generally annoyed by the heterocentric view of the world (which in Japan is oh so popular..) and to me whether a pairing is het or homo makes no difference, therefore in my mind Victor and Yuuri in their current stage are very much like Mulder and Scully when their romantic relationship wasn’t confirmed in the series: no matter how you look at them they must be in love with each other, but it’s not confirmed, therefore fans who think their relationship is platonic have the right to think so (in the X-Files fandom too there were fans who didn’t ship them or were indifferent, but this didn’t stop the creators from making them a couple later on).

As a translator, I’m striving to be unbiased toward any interpretation and therefore to translate official material so that the original meaning/nuance is preserved and in English it doesn’t end up sounding more/less suggestive than it was in Japanese. Since they are very different languages, sometimes it’s hard to keep the exact same nuances as the original text, and of course if you ask 10 people to translate a line they will translate it in 10 different ways, but I’m trying to be careful especially with parts that might be easily misread (I mean, it’s useless that I translate something as sounding shippy when the original doesn’t… If the original does, of course I would keep that nuance).

In any case, if anyone ever thinks that one of my translations doesn’t sound right or that something I said sounds homophobic or hurtful, please let me know and I will explain more in detail what I meant. I always try to write my opinion without being offensive to anyone, but sometimes it’s impossible to write something so that all the people who read it will interpret it the exact same way, especially when talking about topics where readers have contrastive views. I respect all opinions (people who like Victuuri, people who dislike Victuuri, people who are indifferent, etc) and I just wish for everyone to live in peace without attacking each other.

Final notes:

1) Sorry for mentioning series unrelated to YOI, but since X-Files contains a het pairing I thought it would make a good comparison to show that my view of YOI isn’t influenced by the fact that Victor and Yuuri are both guys.

2) I was trying to be very neutral when I wrote my short review of the original drama at the YOI event, but to be honest some parts sounded just like a BL drama and it would take a genius to manage to “no homo” all of that… Of course the scriptwriter made it so that if you want to see their relationship as platonic you can still justify everything with “they were drunk”, but yeah…

3) Adding sources: 1) “What Yamamoto said” comes from the May Febri interview which I’m currently translating; 2) Kubo’s tweets from last August are something that wasn’t explicitly related to YOI but were definitely referring to YOI; 3) What Kubo said about no one being discriminated in YOI’s world is also a tweet from the end of last year, I made a post about it too.

#victor nikiforov #yuuri katsuki #essay #long post is long #my opinion

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soundlesswind · 7 years

Text

DSoD: On Kizuna, Ambiguity, Love...

Going to be honest here when I say I’m not quite sure how to go about expressing my intentions with this, so I hope whoever reads this, reads it with a grain of salt. It’s one of those 4-am in the morning kind of moments of serenity.

The following post explores a little bit about cultural differences, with a few DSOD spoilers. Read at your discretion.

“Love one another, but make not a bond of love: Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.” - Kahil Gibran

Today’s starting topic is on kizuna, “bonds”. That which ties people, concepts and objects.

絆 Kizuna | bonds (between people), emotional ties, a connection, a link.

You may find it odd that instead of just saying bonds, I’m specifically using the word kizuna. Well the reason is, there’s a slightly different nuance with kizuna. Much like there is between sayonara and good-bye. Such are the woes and wonders of language. With kizuna, there is something like...a feeling of destiny, something more tangible, something that is able to tether. This concept is popularly depicted using the red string of fate (once, very literally tethered by Pegasus). --- As a side tidbit, it’s also amusingly a homophone to 緤 kizuna (a leash; a tie to bind).

In a previous post I mentioned that in DSoD, Kaiba stated that he too had a bond with the Pharaoh... Well, if you didn’t have a picture of something more concrete before this post, perhaps now you might consider a different nuance behind his words. Something more along the lines of “I have a destiny with him”. And while it was to serve the purpose of being worn by Yugi in the movie, that Kaiba fastened a chain to the Millennium Puzzle leaves a very peculiar aftertaste. But the image of kizuna doesn’t necessarily have to take the form of a string. The Millennium Puzzle itself is the symbol of bonds. Many different, complex pieces of thought and labour to form a whole; throughout the series was broken, repaired and carried by others, connecting whoever it touched... Except, because for the majority of the story, the Puzzle was carried by and is recognized as the bond between Yugi and Yami, we sometimes forget it has gone through a number of hands. Namely, his hand... One of the lines in the movie, Kaiba declares that the Puzzle is his. At the time of watching it, I didn’t really give it much thought because it was just Kaiba being Kaiba, but after writing the previous post, I realized, oh, wait, no, it really did belong to him at one point. --- Well, one point several thousands of years ago when he was Priest Seto. That kind of spins the perspective a bit, because then, it almost seems as if Kaiba reclaiming the Puzzle may have ultimately been his fate. Thus, the notions of kizuna. The nuance between culture and language is such a precarious fine line. Sometimes these things aren’t given much thought.

Now, as for the second topic of this post, ambiguity... There’s a lot about the theme and intent of DSoD that leaves people guessing. The ambiguous atmosphere is in part the intentions of its creators (marketing or otherwise), but I’ve brought this up because I want to explain ambiguity as a cultural phenomenon. It’s something more commonplace in Japanese culture than in North American culture, where things such as arguments are purposely left with room for debate. There usually isn’t a definitive answer, or one truth (unless you’re Conan)...rather, everything is laid in place of relativity. It’s also even rooted into the language where chigau (”that’s not quite right”) is more often expressed than straight up iie (”no”). So what I’m saying is, there is simply no clear cut yes and no answers not just for DSoD but for a lot of Japanese media, because that may just be the general attitude perpetuated by and for the intended audiences. Hence, you’ll often see a lot of series where things are left open-ended or there’s a lot of read-between-the-line moments, and what I find is that a lot of fans from other cultures seem to demand a blunt answer to something that’s meant to be left open for interpretation. As is such with Takahashi-sensei’s celebratory illustration featuring an event post DSoD --- it is but only one of several possibilities... Which now brings me to a very dangerous topic. The third topic.

Let’s talk about love. Let’s talk about love because boy, this has been heavily debated.

I’m of the stance that Kaiba throughout DSoD was mourning because of love. Now, I don’t particularly mean romantic love. It has been iterated time and time again that Kaiba and Yami’s relationship is complex. Just calling it rivalry or friendship doesn’t really encompass the depth and nature of their relationship. The reason I’m calling it love is because love is a such a broad and holistic metaphysical concept with the capacity to encompass a lot of things. Are they lovers, no. Are they in love? Probably not, or probably not in the typical sense. Just, there is a sea of emotions between the two that’s everything short of romantic feelings. I don’t particularly want to call it platonic love either, since that sort of gives off too gentle of a feeling.

Passion, obsession, preoccupation, selfishness, selflessness, desires, demands, and a repetition of fateful encounters...all the qualities often associated with the concept of love. Although I, myself, personally don’t enjoy preoccupations with labels. Being preoccupied with labels and clear-cut stances often divides things that should be looked at as a whole; and so I’m using the term love as a container, instead of a label, if that makes any sense.

To Kaiba, Mokuba is all he has left in the world...but also to Kaiba, Yami had been the center of his existence, a path he always sees himself crossing in the future, but not just simply one instance. It’s through the clashing of their souls that Kaiba feels alive, with only cards between them as their means of communication. He’s overall a brutally harsh man inside and out, but there are a few times where he expresses a deeper layer of emotions that appear so subtly they’re hard to pick up. The manga version of Kaiba is quite different from his anime counterpart. He’s far less excessive and is much more straight to the point. There’s a stronger display of his values and beliefs. Even though I consider DSoD a continuation of the mangaverse, I also feel there is a difference between Takahashi-sensei’s story telling style and flavour, and the end result of the animation studio as a collective. It’s bound to give off a different taste. I thought the Kaiba in DSoD was much more sombre and softer than usual; or it could just be Kenjiro Tsuda’s sweet low husk that gets to me (---one too many Otome CDs, Tsuda-san!).

Anyway, back to what I was saying... A good portion of the movie felt like it was a funeral, with mourning as a theme, where Kaiba was just stuck in a state of perpetual denial and grief. Moreso in the Japanese version than the English version; where in the former he feels unable to replicate Yami Yugi’s likeness for the hologram battle, and in the latter he doesn’t feel a sense of true accomplishment or fulfillment of revenge. Except, y’know, being the forward thinking man he is, he ends up screwing the Acceptance stage, and just makes his own Defying Laws of Physics stage.

I went a couple times in theatre, and my friends all over the world also went a few times, and we all had similar experiences to share. That there seems to be a great majority of viewers in theatres who were in awe at Kaiba’s dedication to Yami/Atem, be it men, women, or children. The theatres were either filled with hollering, clapping, or both; so I really felt as if Kaiba’s dedication and emotions reached out to many viewers. Like, a lot of straight guys confessed this. And when you consider his actions and facial expressions throughout DSoD, he really went above and beyond (literally), denying everything and anyone that stood in his way, going through plans A to Z just to get to the one person he wanted to meet. The first time I watched it I honestly couldn’t believe what I had seen. I saw Kaiba’s obsession and insanity, but also his obscure gentleness and sadness. It’s kind of hard to think of all his great efforts as something less than love.

Anyway, I hope this post has stirred some cogwheels. Last but not least, I kind of wanted to wrap up with talking about death. In a lot of Asian cultures and beliefs, death isn’t the end of the road. It’s not described as nor does it give off the feeling of finite, and so “death” doesn’t really signify the “end of life”. It’s more simply put a transitional pause in time, or relocation of the soul. After earthly life, the soul ascends to a different space, where it (temporarily) rests. A different dimension so to say. You’ll see this depicted a lot. Very famously in say...Dragon Ball, Bleach, and my favourite Houshin Engi, where the soul is held in a different dimension ready for reincarnation, or ready for transformation, or even ready to travel different dimensions (look up transmigration novels, they’re a popular thing...). So what I’m saying is I don’t think Kaiba’s “dead”, and I find it weird that this is so often talked about. That’s not his style. He’s smart and cocky enough to get himself there, so he’s smart and cocky enough to get himself back. I guess he figures if he can’t draw Atem to him, he will go to Atem.

#blog post #dsod spoilers #yu-gi-oh! the dark side of dimensions #gosh im in such a writing mood these days #no but seriously this movie has me so wrecked #seto kaiba

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