vegans would rather wear plastic head to toe than benefit from symbiotic relationships we've had with animals for thousands of years

meow

ID: Screenshot reading "You will recognise it as an arguable point as soon as you switch the victim to a species that you think morally matters. Humans will inevitably die too" followed by a comma before the screenshot cuts off. It is not shown who the author is.

Preface: This will be a long post, but I think it's worthwhile as part of my efforts to open up real conversation about psychopathy and the stigma + misinformation surrounding it. The main reason I'm making a separate post instead of reblogging is that this post is not really intended to be about veganism. I'm more using the contents of the above screenshot to dive more into a topic I've touched on a few times recently.

Humans being "a species that you think morally matters" is an interesting assumption I often see vegan activists make. I've been undecided for a while about talking about this because I know how controversial this is and don't feel a strong desire to deal with the fallout of posting it/saying it outright, but seeing as I've always tried to be as honest and open as possible in here: I do not actually think humans "morally matter." I do not think killing is inherently wrong, either, regardless of species. Just about every creature on Earth engages in killing, either of each other or of members of other species, if not both. I don't think humans are sacred or special in any way, and thus are no exception. I don't see humans killing each other as any more INHERENTLY (this word is incredibly important here... obviously) wrong than, say, leopards killing each other. My culture used to engage in religious human sacrifice, so I have thought about this a whole lot, and it is a bit of a discourse topic in my community to this day (some even think we would be better off today if we had not stopped giving human sacrifices to the gods).

Most arguments for killing being inherently immoral that I've encountered are directly or indirectly rooted in religion, a societal value accepted without question, and/or the result of emotional reactions. One response I often get to this is that if I don't think killing is inherently wrong, I'm not allowed to be sad about it or grieve when people are killed - the idea being that this is somehow hypocritical. This is nonsense. I don't believe abortion is wrong in any way, but I'd never dream of telling someone who had mixed feelings about her abortion that she was a hypocrite for it*. Having complex, mixed, or even negative emotions about something does not make that thing immoral. Not to jump too far into moral philosophy**, but my view is that emotional responses are not - or at least should not be - an indicator of morality in any capacity. I suspect that more people agree with me on this than realize they do, and here is an example of why: Some people feel badly about killing an insect in their home, but most people do not consider this wrong. Even when it comes to humans, many - if not most - people would likely experience negative emotions when they kill out of genuine necessity, such as in self-defense, but very few people will argue that this is morally wrong, that you should just allow yourself to be harmed or killed if someone attacks you.

In this sense, it would be most logically consistent for me to view hunting wild animals in their own territory (as opposed to shit like when rich people transport animals to a personal hunting ground so they're guaranteed not to lose their prey) for food as morally superior to livestock farming, and I very much do. Traditional hunting is the method of killing for food most similar to that of other animals, as far as I understand. That said, I'm not remotely an expert on the topic beyond having hunted before as a kid and having a general understanding of animal behavior at the college level.

However, I will not pretend like I always behave consistently with the moral conclusions I come to. Like I've discussed before, I don't have an emotional response to violating my own morals. I simply didn't come wired with that feature. I don't really feel guilt or shame, so when I do something "bad," whether by my standards or others' standards, I either don't care at all or make a deliberate effort to cognitively "scold" myself, depending on the circumstances. I do consume meat that I have not personally hunted in the wild. While I do not think that livestock farming, especially modern livestock farming, is good in any way (ethically but also environmentally and health wise), because I don't have an emotional reaction to that thought (but do receive dopamine when I eat tasty food), I have so far been unable to convince myself to stop consuming meat.

I have said previously that I am glad that I am the way that I am, and that remains true; I do think my psychopathic traits are overwhelmingly more beneficial than not. This, however, is one example of the ways it actually is a negative to me - I really can't force myself to care about something I don't care about by default, and often have a hard time making conscious decisions that run counter to what produces dopamine. For this same reason, I have repeatedly failed to cut out gluten despite my doctor's insistence that I need to, and despite knowing how much better I feel (no daily migraines!) when I do abstain from it for a while. I tried to go vegan before and found that I latched onto very unhealthy junk food that was vegan by nature, like Oreos, and was eating incredibly badly. It does not help that I don't know how to cook, partly because my genetic disabilities make cooking a difficult endeavor for several reasons.

I am well aware that some people may be upset by this post, and may feel a need to label me a bad person for being this way. This is your prerogative, and I am certainly open to hearing your responses to this post, within reason. If all you want is to "punish" me for this, send me hate anons and insults, feel free, but I'll go ahead and let you know it doesn't do anything to me... not to mention I'm very used to it already as a radfem blogger. If you still want to do so because it makes you feel righteous or something, by all means go ahead, just be aware that it will not elicit a response from me in any way you'd desire, and definitely won't change my thought processes or behaviors. If you want to have an actual conversation, though, I'm more than happy to engage, answer questions, and hear your perspectives.

*I chose this specific example not because anti-choicers think abortion is killing, but because I have seen women be told that their sadness or grief about an abortion (which, btw, does NOT mean she regrets it!) is somehow "pro life" and that she can't talk about how she feels or else the right wing will use it against us. This is also nonsense, and fucked up nonsense at that. The right wing will use whatever they can; I'm in no way disagreeing with that. However, silencing women and girls to serve a narrative is not the answer. The lived experiences of women and girls (or any marginalized persons) cannot ever be devalued or concealed just because the enemy would use them against us. Actually, this is the same response I have given when told I should hide the fact that I didn't regret my mastectomy, or even that I should pretend that I did regret it. My story, my truth, is mine to own and discuss as I choose, whether it could be weaponized by ideological opponents or not. Same is true for all marginalized persons.

** If you are interested in moral philosophy, specifically where morals come from/what people base morals in, this page and the following pages (there's a Next button in the bottom right corner) sum it up pretty well on Page 1, then dive in a good bit more thoroughly with individual pages for each "root cause" of moral systems.

Side note: I will be reblogging this later because it's 6:30am EDT and a lot of my audience is in the USA. I worked hard and spent a lot of time on this, so I'd like it to actually be seen. Not much point trying to educate/inform/raise awareness if nobody sees it lmao

Just a passing thought: as a vegan, I have been taking b12 supplements as recommended by professionals. I was mocked for it by meat eaters telling me it cannot be a safe way to eat if I have to supplement for something, but I just shrugged it off and continued taking it. Now, I work as a community carer for elderly people and giving them medication is part of my duties. I was surprised to see how many of my clients have to take vitamin b12 supplements and even iron supplements, despite all of them being meat eaters. Obviously I am only talking about my very restricted circle of clients, but I am curious to know the general amount of the elderly population in need of the very supplements that eating meat should (supposedly) provide naturally.

Anyways, I hope you take care of your body today, no matter what supplements you may need 🌱❤️

hi. what’s your number one reason for not being vegan.

B33p b00p

The way people interact with vegans on this website is so exhausting. I can understand why vegans get so defensive if people call you "ableist white privileged vegan uwu" right from the get go. They just box you because your opinion on animal husbandry makes them uncomfortable. There are demographic polls that indicate most vegans are of color and don't make significantly much income (which Im like, hello me at both lol.) Not that it should even matter but. Yknow. People will discredit vegans on this false belief that we are all somehow white and make 6 digits annually LOL.

You dont have to agree with veganism but people dish out so much hate towards a group of people who hate the way this world treats animals. Animal husbandry in most countries is not what it once was and its kkay for people to boycott it or speak about it. If you dont wanna hear it then you don't have to engage with vegans. Thats understandable.

That’s such a cool perspective, I’ve never seen it that way before! It is true that humans aren’t “naturally” vegan, it’s most likely that our ancestors have eaten meat for the majority of our existence. It is also true that we don’t need to eat meat or dairy products and there is evidence that consuming milk and eggs is harmful for our bodies. Tbh, I would still consume dairy if not for the harm that dairy industry does to the environment and the animals they harvest from.

i will not be posting about this anymore but the amount of people who are in my inbox saying i've never heard of plant based fabric because i think it's okay to use wool is so funny. do you think i've never heard of cotton. do you think i'm saying that wool is the only fabric that should ever be used. what's your deal. let me study you

sooo how do you guys feel about shellac? i know it's a little controversial. personally, i don't mind it since nothing non-vegan really goes on from what i see and it's not like the beetles were using it for anything. i'm also a shed hunter and i just don't really mind using waste products from animals once they're done with them, as long as we didn't force them to produce them.

Hey vegans, I can't go on a vegan diet because I'm allergic to most protein as supplements or can't digest them properly. Does this make me an animal ab*ser? No, it just means I don't wanna die a slow, painful death. Don't assume shit.

Ironically, reading ex-vegans experiences convinces me even more to stay vegan. I have yet to read one problem that couldn't be easily solved... it's baffling how uninformed they sound despite how long they claim to have been vegans. Am I the weird one for reading about veganism whenever I have the chance?

Something I do not understand is that for so many "vegans", wool seems to be this "ethical dilemma"?

I put ethical dilemma in quotes because 9 times out of 10, it really isn't. Unless you live somewhere super cold with wool being the only resource that can effectively keep you warm, you do not need to wear wool.

It is a problem you created for yourself. There are so many non-wool clothing options out there to keep you warm and dry. If money is a concern, I recommend second-hand shopping (it's where I've gotten 95% of my clothing for the last 5 years).

"But my knitting projects look shitty if I don't use wool." Okay so you either accept that your knitting projects might not turn out 100% the way you want them, or you accept that you aren't vegan if you cannot live without your wool. (I am a crafter myself and it is absolutely possible to craft without using wool.)

Why is it that wool is where you draw the line? Why do you understand that meat, dairy, leather, fur is unethical, but wool is supposedly fine? You bring up all the arguments that non-vegans bring up to justify consuming animal products (humanely raised, they need to be sheered, etc.) and don't realize how hypocritical you sound.

Why do you agree with statements like "animals aren't resources" until what, you can't create the sweater of your dreams?

Veganism can be inconvenient and uncomfortable, but the animals are worth it.

And if in a so-called "ethical dilemma", you choose the option that uses animals as resources, you should really reconsider your values. Because that was and never will be vegan.

Just because I disagree with militant veganism and animal rights doesn’t mean I like how some act on this site towards vegans. Whether you want to admit it or not, tumblr can be pretty dog-pilely. People can claim it’s not about blaming vegans and it’s just pointing out they’re not cruelty free, but when I was vegan and saw all the posts ranting about vegans and their “slave labor quinoa/agave/almonds”, all it did was make me double down as I and many others never touched it. To a lot of people, it does come off as blaming and being way harsher on vegans especially when they word it in a way that positions those products as solely vegan things. People who claim veganism is cult like and also shared that post about how to treat people in real cults like JW or Mormonism often ignore that advice with vegans. You’re not changing minds when you feed persecution complexes by acting hostile and dog piling people. I stopped being a vegan because of people who actually took time to educate about animal welfare and misconceptions aras spread. You may not want to hear this, but a little kindness and patience can go a long way. This does not mean people who have been hurt by militant vegans have to act nice, just remember that acting very hostile towards anyone who disagrees isn’t going to change their mind.

The omnis are NOT ok

Ecofascism swiftly replacing ‘colonialism’ as the next term to be completely devalued by anti-vegans just throwing it at anything they don’t like.