#this is truly one of the most important destiel episodes
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random shots of dean’s tongue - 5 / ∞
4x22 || lucifer rising
💗 happy 1 year and 11 months everyone 💗
#if dean ever looked at me like that i'd push him up against a wall and fall from heaven for him too#castiel: trying to bring dean peace since 2009#this is truly one of the most important destiel episodes#liddoltonguenatural#spn 4x22#lucifer rising#spnedit#dean winchester#dean winchester gifs#castiel#castiel gifs#destiel#destiel gifs#spn#spn gifs#deanstongueseries#tusersana
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okay say queerbaiting or milkvan endgame all you want but i have yet to see any plausible heterosexual explanation for the following
- the airport hug
he was happy to hug will in season 3 and happy to hug lucas in season 4. when the entirety of the show has made it clear that mike and will share the more profound bond (destiel iykyk) out of the party it makes no sense for him to not want to hug him- unless it’s because of his queer realisations atm
- ‘we’re friends, WE’RE FRIENDS’
um it is simply not plausible that mike clocked wills feelings enough to say this yet didn’t pick up what he was putting down in the van speech. bffr mike was absolutely on the defensive here, mans was trying to convince himself
- mike looking at eddie
you’re telling me you watched the scene in episode one where eddie has his ‘if you’re inTo baNd’ speech and still think mike isn’t a homo? he has a lil fanboy crush on eddie and none shall convince me otherwise
- mikes reaction to el kissing him and i love you too
there is no heterosexual reason for him to look so taken aback and distressed after her kiss and her saying she loves him too. the music and els face all suggest a beautiful moment of love but mikes face looks shocked completely contrasting this. esp contrasted against his face at ‘what if you wanna join another party’ and considering his face when he hugs karen at the end of s3. up till then he had made no effort to try and rekindle their relationship but still wanted to see her and talk to her while she was away. ur gonna look at me and ur gonna tell me that i’m wrong
- ‘i care for you so much’
yes i understand that some people have trouble saying i love you- as we see with nancy and steve. bUt the way this is framed in this scene makes it feel queer. he is deflecting he says he cares for her but can’t say he loves her. this is why i’m a gay mike truther this feels like he’s trying so hard to be someone he’s not but he’s reached his limit. he can’t truly say he loves her until under so much duress and pressure. even when he first said ily in season 3 was just a slip up and significance was only given to the words through everyone else’s reactions, not mikes own reaction.
- ‘mrs byers has this new job, mikes always complaining about it’
im sure i butchered this quote but we KNOW him and el only talked on walkies because she couldn’t talk on the phone for dead of the government figuring out she was alive. this line proves mike called plenty and he can only have been calling to talk to will. while yes it is feasible that he was calling as friends, why wouldn’t he say something? leaving this revelation until the last season makes it significant, and therefore makes it romantic and queer.
- shared looks
do i even need to explain. their looks are just fucking gay. especially that one in season 3 where wills like he’s here and mike just keeps staring at him for a good while
- the emphasis on lucas and mikes friendship
they make clear in season 1 that lucas is mikes best friend by mikes convo with dustin. and in season three their status as best friends is made clear because they relate and complain to each other all the time. then WHY throughout the WHOLE show is mike and wills bond given the most focus??? season 1 will is mikes motivation, season 2 he is his priority, season 3 they have an important arc and season 4 they have ups and downs but ultimately their relationship is regarded as most important- they are the only two from the original party who have consistently been paired together. dustin and lucas were both in the hawkins crew but were always in separate groups. there is no heterosexual reason to make clear who mikes best friend js then spend 4 seasons focused on his relationship with will.
- framing
there is no heterosexual reason to frame him in a closet at the milkvan season 3 kiss. there is no heterosexual reason to put a one way sign pointing to his closet. there is no heterosexual reason to pair him and will in the closing shot alongside two other endgame couples. need i say more.
- blue and yellow
obviously this colour symbolism is undeniable at this point. whether or not ppl believe it symbolises their relationship or just their characters, it’s clear that will is yellow and mike is blue. there’s a reason we barely see green clothing or lighting. there’s a reason mikes bouquet to el had purple (her colour) but too much yellow (will). there’s a reason their flannels always have hints of the other persons colour.
- will as mikes priority
instead of coming crawling back to el for forgiveness in s3 he goes to will. he says his life started when he found el (a lie like the rest of that speech) yet when will went missing he only cared about him. all of season 2 showed that he loves will so much he wouldn’t leave his side ever.
i have many other opinions about why milkvan endgame would completely undermine so many messages of the show but yeah i’ll stop for now
#byler#stranger things#mike wheeler#will byers#mike wheeler i know what you are#st analysis#stranger things 4#stranger things 3#stranger things 2#byler analysis#st symbolism#queer analysis#that boy is gay and i really believe that
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My Supernatural Journey I guess
I actually did go into spn fully expecting to ship Destiel. I came into SPN after watching Merlin, and I had often seen Merthur (my beloved) and Destiel likened together. I barely knew anything about Sam. I only found out that Sam existed because I saw that he was being shipped with his brother on the Ao3 ships polls last year. I didn't know if Sam was important or not because I hadn't seen much content about him. So I ended up calling him the hippie brother mentally.
The only things I thought I knew about Supernatural was that it had some religious stuff in it, Destiel was canon apparently, there were demons and stuff, and John really hated. My impression on Spn was this horror show that was featured this really tough macho dudes but the show was supposedly kind of gay??
I also followed this one person way back for discussing this one video game. They were an ex-supernatural fan way back but left because they found discourse surrounding destiel to be to exhausting. They also used to be a big Sam fan and shipped wincest. I like found the latter to be like really weird back then but man the tides have turned.
So I turned on the Spn pilot with my mom in the same room one day out of sheer boredom. Back then I was still considering Spn as that tumblr show. And then the rest was history, and I lost countless hours of my life obsessing over the show.
So first of all, I only saw one brief glance at Sam before voting for merthur in the wincest vs merthur poll (I'd have probably voted for wincest now lol) so I didn't really know who he was. To me initially he just looked like the 2nd big, gruff dude with long hair. And then I found out that the sweetest looking boy with the floppiest bangs was that guy, Sam.
Also I thought Dean was the younger brother for some reason before watching the show (Probably because Jackles just doesn't age lol). So I was really surprised to see that the little kid in the opening scene was Dean and that the baby was Sam. Oh and I was totally predicting that John died actually in the opening scene and that something else was pretending to be their father lol.
I think I fell in love with the show right away. There was just something really believable and palpable about the brother's estrangement and relationship from the start and I just wanted to see how it developed. S1 is just filled with great horror episodes, and I started watching around October so it was just perfect timing.
So Things that Ended Up Suprising Me the Most/Other Things
I actually ended up really liking John in s1. JDM was just stellar in his all scenes and brought an emotional and sincere side to John. He's tough for sure but he doesn't hide his feelings about his boys. Like you can see the tears in his eyes when they reunite. Also his speech about how he wants Sam and Dean to have normal lives and how he's tired and so broken up after seeing all his friends being killed by meg never fails to hit hard. Do I think John was a good father. No. But he did care about his boys truly. And while I do understand Fandom's widespread dislike of John it is disheartening to see him reduced to this unfeeling caricature. John's problem wasn't that he felt too little; it was that he felt to much and he never really properly managed it and it ended up hurting the his boys.
I thought Meg and Sam would maybe end up being a thing and was like :(((( (because I just liked the bros being by themselves even though I wasn't a wincest shipper at the time lol) but I was also like go Sam if thats what you want ig? Lmao Idk I just wanted Sam to be happy even back then. Anyways thank god that never happened.
Me falling in love with Sam.
Dean. I always saw a lot about him but never found myself to interested in him as all I saw was Destiel content with him. But I ended up falling in love with his character so hard in Devil's trap. When he begs John not to kill him :(((((((((. I think Devil's trap is one of my favorite episodes for Dean. It's when I started to understand him and his loyalty to his family really touched me.
1x22 was also the episode that convinced me SPN was going to be a insane show. Like what a season finale. I feel so bad for the fans who had to wait to watch s2. I actually jumped up and said it ends like that?! The car scared me so bad.
Around s2 I set my foot in the wincest fandom. Back then I thought you guys were scary but in a good way. But I was also getting really into the codependency at the time so I found myself starting to seek wincest out because well you guys just get it. And then Dean sold his soul for Sam and I looked up wincest fic for the first time with the intent to read fic about wincest. Before it was reading wincest fic despite the wincest and then well all hell blew loose (sorry I just had to).
First wincest fic I read: half the man i used to be by dollylux. I wasn't exactly a wincest shipper then. But I thought it was fucked up and strangely fitting to Sam and Dean's relationship and fucked up lives. It was probably the fic that got me into wincest.
I had a bit of an internal rule I set for myself back then where I could only read Wincest fics that were about them being in a fucked and toxic relationship because I felt bad reading fics about an incest ship. So I guess in my mind it cancelled out because then I thought then I wasn't romanticizing the incest lol. Idgaf now. I read anything about Sam/Dean if it's good.
When You're Not Here by raziella was the 2nd wincest fic I read. I read it because it's pretty much gen but it does have some wincest leanings. It's a really good fic.
I gave up Destiel even before s4. It was around in S3 after seeing Sam slowly go insane that I realized I wanted nothing more than the two brothers together.
I just realized that even if Destiel was canon or not nothing could be as important to Dean than Sam was and vice versa for Sam.
I actually was anxious about s4 because I didn't want the show to change that much and drift from the focus on the brothers.
S4 and s5 were really difficult to go through for me. I thought they were great television but it was too painful. I felt horrible seeing what happened to the brothers and how they drifted apart.
S4 Sam hair was probably my favorite.
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Destiel in Season 4 and 5 of Supernatural and Death of God
German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche’s well-known phrase “God is dead,” introducing the idea of the missing God, laid the foundation for one of the most important topics in the 20th century Existentialist Movement. The possibility of God’s non-existence means that everything that is possible to happen can happen, and if everything is allowed, how can man choose? How can man know how to live? If everything is allowed, can there be we define right from wrong?
Such questions are asked on Supernatural, with the character Castiel first appearing at the end of the first episode in the fourth season, which marked the series’ introduction of Christian mythology as a central them ever since. Castiel, an Angel of the Lord, initially shows complete devotion to God and identifies as servant of heaven:
CASTIEL:
We have no choice.
DEAN:
Of course you have a choice. I mean, come on, what? You’ve never questioned a crap order, huh? What are you both, just a couple of hammers?
CASTIEL:
Look, even if you can’t understand it, have faith. The plan is just.
SAM:
How can you even say that?
CASTIEL:
Because it comes from heaven, that makes it just.
- 4.07 It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester
This argument on the morality behind the act of “purifying a city” or “taking one thousand two hundred fourteen lives” between Castiel and the Winchesters is not dissimilar with Danish theologian Søren Kierkegaard’s discussion on Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac. When Abraham was told that as a result of God's will that he must sacrifice his son Isaac, he was in a kind of either-or. If the message is genuinely from God, then he must sacrifice Isaac and it is the right thing to do; but if the message is not from God, then he would be committing what would be the very worst possible crime judged on the basis of Abraham's own view of human ethics.
The dichotomy here, between Castiel’s and Dean’s rationales, is that while the former believes there is a God and God and religion (in other words, heaven’s plan for earth) are the most important things, and man must do nothing but obey heaven’s command, the latter insists that there is no God and it is for man to take the total burden of responsibility for the world and for himself upon his own shoulders, with no one to give him any sign.
Though the former seems to suggest a lack of agency or necessity for decision making in moral judgement, as the plot unfolds, we see Castiel demonstrate a sense of uncertainty, the very secret he voices in the conversation with Dean in the episode’s epilogue.
CASTIEL:
I’m not a… hammer as you say. I have questions, I have doubts. I don’t know what is right and what is wrong anymore, whether you passed or failed here. But in the coming months you will have more decisions to make. I don’t envy the weight that’s on your shoulders, Dean. I truly don’t.
- 4.07 It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester
This mirrors Kierkegaard’s Abraham in his questions on God’s will. Indeed, how is one to know whether the command is from God or not? If an angel speaks to him, how does Abraham know it's not a hallucination? And if God himself speaks, how is Abraham, or Castiel, to know whether this is really God or whether the command is their own inward evil wishes? Nobody but Abraham, or Castiel, can decide and they cannot tell within his life whether he has done the right thing or not.
Perhaps it is this introspective nature in Castiel that draws him close to Dean, the human in his charge, and by implication humanity. Dean, a firm non-believer and what many, including himself, perceive to be as farthest from being servant of God as possible, detests the idea of God even in face of angels walking the earth.
DEAN:
God?
CASTIEL:
Yes.
DEAN:
God.
CASTIEL:
Yes! He isn't in heaven. He has to be somewhere.
DEAN:
Try New Mexico. I hear he's on a tortilla.
CASTIEL:
No, he's not on any flatbread.
DEAN:
Listen, Chuckles, even if there is a God, he is either dead—and that's the generous theory—
CASTIEL:
He is out there, Dean.
DEAN:
—or he's up and kicking and doesn't give a rat's ass about any of us.
CASTIEL glares.
DEAN:
I mean, look around you, man. The world is in the toilet. We are literally at the end of days here, and he's off somewhere drinking booze out of a coconut. All right?
- 5.02 Good God, Y'all
Dean has no intention of trying to prove that God does not exist, as one cannot prove a negative, but the very specific objection to the traditional concept of God above parallels with the simple objection in many existentialists work that is based upon the injustice of the universe. Albert Camus has given this same type of criticism in his novel, "The Plague", in which the priest, Padalu, confesses that he is not able to understand how there can be any justification so that even eternal paradise could cancel out the sufferings here on earth of one innocent child. Why, Deans asks, if God is all powerful, does man have to suffer? If God is merciful, then how can he sentence man, any man at all to eternal damnation?
There is an optimistic side to this. As the repetitive occurrence of the term “free will” on this show suggests, if God exists, man is nothing; but if God does not exist, then man is free to choose what he wants to make himself. But for Castiel to arrive at this destination, it first takes him to undergo a two-season long crisis.
ANNA:
What do you want from me, Castiel?
CASTIEL:
I'm considering disobedience.
ANNA nods.
ANNA:
Good.
CASTIEL:
No, it isn't. For the first time, I feel...
ANNA:
It gets worse. Choosing your own course of action is confusing, terrifying.
ANNA puts her hand on CASTIEL's shoulder. He looks at it; she drops it.
ANNA:
That's right. You're too good for my help. I'm just trash. A walking blasphemy.
ANNA turns to walk away.
CASTIEL:
Anna.
ANNA stops.
CASTIEL:
I don't know what to do. Please tell me what to do.
ANNA turns back.
ANNA:
Like the old days? No. I'm sorry. It's time to think for yourself.
- 4.16 On the Head of a Pin
If God isn’t out there, then Castiel has nowhere to turn. This dreadful realization may best be articulated through Hazel Barnes’ analogy that as if one would try to judge a Ford car without any Mr. Ford. So long as there is a Mr. Ford or one of his agents, then one has a model, one has a blueprint and one can say that the car which is coming there off the assembly line is a perfect Ford or an imperfect Ford. But without a plan, one cannot judge a car, and without God, there is no plan for Castiel and there is no final point of reference by which he can judge his values, or right or wrong, or declare that he has lived up to his possibilities or not lived up to his possibilities.
Yet despite “choosing your own course of action” being “confusing, terrifying,” Castiel is not in total despair. Dean, the human equivalent of the burden of a self-creative life, provides reference for Castiel on how to live a life as if there were no God. I have concluded thus that in the context of existentialism Castiel seeks Dean and humanity for answers and view them as his destination.
Note: this article is MOSTLY arguments in Hazel Barnes’ Self Encounter 2: The Far Side of Despair.
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“Misha Collins said Castiel was gay & the confession scene was a romantic one”
No shit. Of course he said that. Not only has that man been queer baiting the hell out of Destiel shippers for years (large part of the reason I stopped following him on Twitter a few years back & am no longer a fan) but he’s not stupid.
Collins is well aware that 90% of his fans are Destiel shippers. Of course he’s going to tell them what they want to hear. Especially with the show off the air now. Canon and new episodes can’t prove he’s a damn liar so he’s gonna be out there running his mouth to keep the fans. He’s an actor with a family to feed, lol.
Especially since the destihellers are turning on Jensen now. Tell him he has internalized homophobia and other bullshit like that.
IF we get more Supernatural, season 16 or a movie whatever, Destiel will never be canon. Jensen has maintained for years that Dean is straight.
“They’ll have to address the confession scene in any new episodes!”
Will they? Dean already knew Castiel loved him just like Dean loves Castiel like he loves Sam. Though not quite as much as Sam is the most important to Dean. Point is that wasn’t new information to Dean. Just the first time it was said out loud.
Misha himself said he offered to come back in the prequel series as Castiel and Jensen flat out said no then proceeded to bring back Bobby and Jack lmaooo
Clearly Jensen don’t give a flying fuck about Destiel. Given he’s been bullied and is being bullied by destihellers I wouldn’t acknowledge the non-canon ship either. Hell, they’re currently attacking Danneel on Twitter. Truly, awful people
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(non spn watcher here) when did destial become a canon love story with writer intent? like was there more destiel-ness in the season leading up to the nov 5th confession?
Okay *cracks knuckles*.
First and foremost, I'm gonna tell you about my SPN history. I started watching SPN and got caught up with the show while s10 was airing and was watching live until the end of s12. I gave up specifically because Castiel's s11 plot proved to be just on the side of too miserable for me, and s12 didn't really make it any better (Cas dies at the end of that season). During this time, and until Nov 5th 2020, I was solidly on camp "Dean and Cas are never going to be canon just because of what SPN is fundamentally as a show, and even if they did, I cannot imagine a situation where it would be a good thing for Cas given SPN's track record on how they treat the angel."
When Nov 5th happened I was sucked back into the show. In preparation for the finale I watched all of s13-15 in the two weeks between the confession episode and the finale. Again, my perspective going into this endeavour was still very doubtful and pessimistic, specifically on the Dean side of the equation.
The beginning of s13 was a bit of a shock to me, honestly. It starts with what the fandom calls 'The Widower's Arc'. I think this was the arc that most solidly cements the feelings from Dean's side. It was so vehement in pointing out that Dean feels for Cas in a way so distinguished from how Sam does. In the very first episode of the season (so the first episode I watched after going back into SPN), Dean quietly wraps Cas' body with a curtain all by himself in a sunlit room. And I go Oh. Okay.
This vibe does wane after Cas comes back and regular SPN hijinks ensues. S14 actually ends with Dean and Cas fighting and Dean doing his usual Dean-isms. 15.03 is when that fight culminates: they break up and spend a couple episodes apart from each other.
15.09 The Trap features Dean and Cas in purgatory, and this was Truly An Episode. They bicker through-out the entire thing and are pretty pissed at one another, but then Cas gets taken, and Dean desperately prays to him, confesses his anger issues, forgives Cas and asks for forgiveness back. Later, they reunite, and Cas acknowledges that he heard everything Dean said.
This episode is so interesting to me because it culminates the Dean and Cas fight-separation-reconciliation plot of s15, and in doing so confirms it to be as important as it is. I cannot point enough that the plot reasons for the stuff happening in 15.09 is so pointless. They go to purgatory for a fetch quest for an item that can be interchangeable with literally anything else, specifically to put Dean and Cas back in purgatory (a meaningful place for them), have them be separated, and have the prayer happen. The whole point of the Dean and Cas portion of the episode is to do character work. We don't even see the scene where Cas finally gets the thing they're here to acquire in the first place. That's literally not the point. The point is Cas and Dean's story. S15 is the last season of a show with so many big things to wrap up, and they make it a point to have Dean and Cas go through a half-season arc that DOES occupy so much of the season and brings a new openness, vulnerability, and room for development into their relationship.
So yeah, before 15.18 there WAS very visible marks of the fact that Something was gonna happen. Interestingly enough all those marks were pretty dean-centric. I would say s4-10 destiel is the audience being inundated that Cas loves Dean. S11-15, ESPECIALLY 13-15 is so very much making it known that Dean loves Cas too.
On a related note, on Nov 21, 2020, a post is made here on tumblr claiming that around Dec 2016 (S12 was airing at this point), Warner Bros. conducted a market research about Supernatural, and from this person's experience, specifically about Dean and Cas and Dean's sexuality (link to a post that confirms the information in the post to be true). This market research was during the time leading up to s13, which I think does mark a big change in how the love between Dean and Cas started being framed by the show as something Dean both feels and is also aware of.
So, to answer your questions.
Was there more destiel-ness in the season leading up to the nov 5th confession? Yes.
When did destiel become a canon love story with writer intent? It became a canon love story by S15, but the writer intent to make it canon goes way back to s13 but probably even s12.
- Grey :))
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Hello! I've been following your blog ever since the finale of The Winchesters and really love all of the metas you've done, they're all very well made.
I have a question about your thoughts on The Leak. I saw that you had made 2 vague posts about it and how the SPN side of tumblr has been treating it, namely poorly (to speak in delicate terms). I'm currently writing a piece about why potentially this attitude is going on, and why it is so pervasive. I'm asking you since you have obviously been in this fandom far longer than I have, and would like to get a second opinion from someone who may potentially have a more comprehensive view on this issue.
However, I completely understand if you don't respond to this as this is an issue that deals heavily with spoilers. I just thought you're 2 posts about it were interesting and would've liked to hear more from you about it as someone who is a diehard heller yet doesn't agree with what's been going on.
Hi hello. I am finally answering this since Good Omens 2 is now out. I didn't want to draw yet more attention to the leak ahead of time, but the time is come so here I go.
There are a lot of overlapping things factoring into some Hellers' overall reaction to the Good Omens leak and Good Omens 2 in general, but I do not have the bandwidth nor the desire to give anyone a crash course in Heller History & Psychology. It mainly comes down to the fact that Hellers, especially those who've been with the show and ship for years, are wounded more than most of us would like to admit by years of queerbaiting, and a bit defensive as a result.
Many of us are in our late 20s, early 30s, or older and grew up without ANY positive representation at all. What little visibility queer people in media were allowed to have was steeped in themes of deviance and tragedy. And the few truly joyful depictions of us that did exist were not accessible to many of us in our communities, especially before the advent of widespread internet access. As a personal example, I only saw the film Big Eden (2000) in the last five years. I didn't know it existed before then!
Queer representation only became more normalized on television once I was well into my 20s. And even then, it was only normalized within very specific limitations. A character could be introduced as queer or have a Queer Life Script type of story. But the majority of these characters were still steeped in negative stereotypes, and it was basically unheard of for a show that didn't set out to be inclusive to suddenly make one of its main characters queer in canon.
(Tangent: I still remember the first time I saw an unexpected queerness reveal on television. Two men were staring intensely at each other in the midst of an argument and I jokingly said "now kiss" at my television screen. And then they did. And after about 5 seconds of wondering if I had magical powers, my entire brain was rewired forever (it was an episode of Cold Case).)
The point is, it was really easy for a long time for general audience members and fans who didn't like Destiel as a ship to tell us we were stupid and crazy for shipping it, because they had the entire history of film and television in North America backing them up. Not to mention the cherry-picked comments of certain actors over the years, and the behavior of moderators at conventions. And many anti-hellers took full advantage of all that, and still do, and don't acknowledge at all the role that real homophobia plays in supporting their stupid little one-sided ship wars.
All of this to say, Destiel fans have every reason to be defensive and prickly.
That being said, I think malicious spreading of the GO2 leak untagged and unwarned-for was extremely shitty. Ruining something important for someone else because we couldn't have the thing we wanted is childish and self-absorbed beyond belief. Shitting on actual, canonical queer representation because it isn't the ship and show you wanted it from is just shitty, full stop.
And for what? It's not like Warner Brothers is going to wake up one morning and say "wow those Hellers really shit on every other queer rep on offer, guess that means it would be lucrative and smart from a business standpoint to resurrect a cancelled show just to give them canon Destiel after all these years!" But then let's be honest, there's no logic behind this kind of behavior. It's just meanness, bitterness, and spite. And while I sympathize with the bitterness, the meanness and spite are inexcusable.
Finally, the veiled-to-explicit accusations that Good Omens was trying to somehow supplant or copy Destiel are unspeakably stupid.
For one thing, I can think of few things further from "trying to be like Destiel" than taking a queer interpretation of a work that was not really intended by its authors and running with it full speed ahead. Supernatural is an example of how homophobia makes a story worse by flattening its characters and wasting its potential. Good Omens the show is an example of how a willingness to embrace queer interpretations of a story can give it new life and dimension.
So if anything, that's an inversion of what happened with Destiel! Supernatural is a straight man's straightwashed fanfic of a censored version of a queer story. It was forced into the closet at every turn by a homophobic network despite the efforts of queer and queer-friendly writers to course-correct throughout its 15-year run. The sheer number of bisexuals SPN took inspiration from only to straight-wash and queerbait for as long as it did is almost as ridiculous as claiming that a show that did the opposite of that was trying to emulate it.
I also find it stupid because Good Omens the book was published fifteen years before the fifteen-year hate crime that is Supernatural ever aired a single episode. The elements of queerness that the show teased out and expanded upon existed back when Eric Kripke was still what I can only imagine was an insufferable teen proto-filmbro making some poor underpaid high school English professor take up drinking to cope with his hypermasc Americana edgelord bullshit in every essay.
Much like when SPN fans started yelling that Matt Ryan's Constantine was a ripoff of Supernatural and Castiel, this is just embarrassing. If anything, the inspiration for Destiel came from Good Omens, not the other way around.
As for any worries fans express (in their adamant denials) about the Ineffable Lovers "replacing" Destiel, I have to ask...for who? Pretty sure no diehard Heller is going to burn their Castiel handprint patch from Stands as a sacrifice to the gomens gods to prove their loyalty. And anyway, nothing is ever going to approach being the "new Destiel" without at least a dozen years of will-they/won't-they slow burn angst and enemies to allies to enemies to friends to coparents to lovers shenanigans. It's just implausible! We can't even get a show to have five whole seasons anymore nowadays.
I know Destiel is important to Hellers. I'm a Heller. It's important to ME. But we aren't doing ourselves or anyone else any favors by acting like every star-crossed queer love story that comes along is somehow copying or devaluing Destiel. That is just laughably untrue. The Ineffable Lovers will never be Destiel, sure. But who ever said they were trying to be? I thought the whole explicit canonicity bit made it pretty clear that wasn't the case.
TL;DR: Hellers including me all have terminal brainworms from being gaslit since we were impressionable teenagers by Eric Kripke and all his successors, but that's no excuse to intentionally spoil big moments or be shitty about other shows giving their audience canonical queer rep. From the bottom of my Heller heart, grow the fuck up besties.
#supernatural#good omens#ineffable lovers#destiel#ship nonsense#spn fandom#hellers#if you're a heller and didn't participate in this shit this obviously isn't about you#but truly some of us do need to open ass remove head about this beloveds#ask box#anomyous
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hi! I recently sent you an ask about the cute firefighters and i just saw the posts that one of them is bi!! the kissing of both of them is only a matter of time now i feel ^-^
Hiiii yes! It's so incredible bestie i have not stopped smiling since before i went to sleep this morning (night shift, weird routine yada yada) i am sooooo excited!!!! Especially since everything the creators are saying alludes to a buddie endgame eventually. This is just the start of a fresh direction for Buck and Eddie's storylines within canon and i am so hype to see how they handle it going forward considering how fucking perfect this episode was. I am excited about BuckTommy bc it means i get to see Buck able to freely explore his sexuality and just dating men without having the fear of losing two of the most important people in his life if he fucks up the relationship hanging over his head. If you asked me last night I would've laughed and said "i was here for sterek and destiel you can't fool me" but NOW!?! I am sure buddie will happen eventually and I cannot wait! But I also truly believe that if they don't happen romantically in canon i wouldn't be nearly as bummed out bc they'll be soulmates whether they kiss on screen or not but the Buck being bi in canon thing? Now THAT is a true gift they've given me personally xD
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so I never learned my lesson about getting attached to supernatural characters that aren't Sam and Dean so Jack became my late in the game new favorite and I am outraged by how badly the narrative treated him!
truly the most heinous shit happens to him constantly, and it's never even about his character development or story arc because the writers don't care enough to give him his own arc. like I said on that other post season 13 is entirely about traumatizing as much as possible as fast as possible (because that's the only way they know to make characters interesting) while also using him to advance the plot with all the apocalypse world Lucifer vs. Michael round 2 stuff.
then in season 14 the overarching plot is so weak and all over the place that it barely even feels like they're using him for that so much as hurting Jack to hurt Sam and Dean and Cas. he gets sick so they have to go through the pain of losing a child. it's discussed in those terms way more than how Jack feels about it is brought up. he gets brought back with the Lilly Sunder spell so they'll have to grapple with whether risking his soul to save his life was the right call. they say they're going to let him decide but the whole situation with the empty makes it so he doesn't really have any options while also letting them set up Cas dying/destiel confession in what should be an episode about Jack.
him choosing to burn out his soul to kill Michael and save the others could have been a big moment for him, but the way they wrote him up to that point made it a little unclear if he fully understood how dangerous loosing his soul could be (which I mean is fair. his only reference for someone without a soul is Donatello who was always nice to him, Jack wasn't born yet for soulless Sam or Amara leaving a bunch of soulless people around, and he was in apocalypse world when Donatello went crazy. he's physically 18ish and chronologically 2 so as much as he's a smart person and not actually a baby you can't really expect him to have the best understanding of consequences and his own mortality. him not fully getting the risk could also be interesting for his character but they didn't commit to that either, they just had him say he got it while repeatedly using his powers and never seeming all that concerned about it.) the show focuses so much more on the Winchesters and Cas being worried and guilty about his soul than having Jack react to or deal with that loss.
and then he kills Mary. the one thing he was always afraid of, the one thing he never wanted to do, was hurt his family. and the writers made him lose control for one second and kill one of the most important people in his life and break the hearts of all the other people he loves. and again it's all about hurting Sam and Dean to drive them to try and contain or kill him, while also driving a wedge between Dean and Cas. like of course, of course, that's devastating for Sam and Dean, I'm not trying to minimize that. but even after Jack gets his soul back his trauma and grief around it are never addressed. even his guilt is only touched on so far as it's the motivation for him sacrificing himself for them again. directly afterwards when talking to Rowena and imaginary Lucifer he's horrified and maybe not sad or guilty exactly (no soul) but he obviously understands the magnitude of what he did. but then for some reason when he's talking to Sam and Dean in Jack in the Box he's very casual and dismissive, all like well it was an accident, anyway let's move on. that scene is really the only time he acts like a lot of the other soulless characters. for the most part he seems to understand emotions and morals much better than anyone else without a soul, and almost feel a little even if it's not the same as someone with a soul. (I think the angel grace mitigates some of the effects of not having a soul. angels don't have souls but do have the capacity to feel and tell right from wrong. Jack tells Donatello that he feels different but doesn't feel nothing, and I think that's because the emotions coming from the grace are different than the ones from a soul and it takes practice to identify and develop them to be as strong as what he was used to.) it feels like between Mary acting pretty out of character during her last scene and Jack being so weird about it when he talks to the boys I suspect Chuck was supposed to have been meddling before he actually showed back up, but they never outright say that. regardless they fridged Mary Winchester for the second time and forced Jack through his worse nightmare because they needed to motivate Dean with pain.
his second death was explicitly meant to punish the rest of team free will. Dean couldn't and wouldn't kill Jack, so Chuck did it to hurt his dad's. they wouldn't play his little game so Jack had to die so they'd learn their lesson about defying him. even when he was dead his corpse gets puppeted around to hurt the others. like I also like belphegor as a character, he's bitchy and funny, but narratively making him possess Jack's body was just a way to hurt Cas specifically. (Sam and Dean were way less bothered. maybe the whole casifer situation had numbed them a bit to the horror of working with something evil that has your loved ones face for the greater good.)
then when he comes back it's all "kill yourself to save the world" which is a pretty common plot point for supernatural, but it's also "die to absolve your sins, it's the only way Dean will ever forgive you" which I find significantly more fucked up. and then that plan fails, and Cas dies so Jack loses the only parent who never gave up on him, and then he becomes God.
and Jack becoming god is like...it doesn't really work any of the themes of the show, and it also is the worst way to end his story. he's always been powerful, but he's only ever cared about that in as much as his powers can help his family. when he loses them he's upset because he can't protect the people he loves anymore, not because he isn't special or whatever. all he wants is to be with the people he loves without having to worry about his powers hurting them. and the end they came up with for his story is to get a massive power boost and have to leave his family so he can "be everywhere" or whatever. it's so dumb!
this post got super long, and I'm sure that people have already said all of this better than me, but it's driving me nuts. I just love Jack so much, he's such a good character, and supernatural has so many instances of wasted potential, but Jack's story could have been amazing if there were more than three or four episodes that treated him as an actual character instead of a plot device or a prop for other characters stories.
#supernatural#jack kline#im ripping my hair out#they wouldn't just let him be happy for five minutes#but they also didn't bother to give him a real story arc#so all the suffering just feels pointless#the writers and show runners didn't care about him#but I care about him a whole lot
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Top 5 most cringeworthy casshole scenes?
Top 5 cringe asstiel scenes?
Putting these together cause it's the same ask. Duh XD
Oh Asstiel once an interesting side character that well and truly over stayed his welcome.
Remember this isn't a list of the many awful things this idiot has done but the scenes of his that make me cringe.
1.) Number one has to be that god awful scene from 15x18.
I'm using this gift because the infamous *love* gift is just to close to his ugly puffy face. Not only is this scene poorly written and horrible acted. (the fact that it looks like Misha is actual trying for once is even sadder.) Even if you see this as a romantic confession (it wasn't) which would make it even worse (it wasn't though remember that) cause it came out the fuck no where. Having Asstiel's whole character just be all about Dean is a slap in the face to actual Asstiel fans.
Though Asstiel's finale ever scene becoming a meme pretty much sums up his character by the end of the show.
2.) The whole Castiel!Lucifer crap. The fact Sam was trapped with Lucifer AGAIN and didn't break. Meanwhile Lucifer only has to say a few words to Asstiel and Lucifer get's the stupid bastard to agree to say yes to him. Wow what a little baby. Yet another time where Asstiel causes more issues and Death amd get's away with it.
Never mind the retcon and bad acting that followed. Just look at the gift below. Trust Misha to ruin one of the last actual good seasons of Supernatural.
This list is meant to be just about Asstiel but just look at this?!?!?! 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮
3.) Other world Castiel.....who sounds like a nazi. Even when he is *evil* he is so fucking lame I can't.
I could find a gift and having to look at Castiel/Destiel gifts is too much on my poor eyes. More bad acting from Misha BTW.
4.) Now we all know Asstiel well out stayed his welcome and they had to find reasons for why he wasn't in most episodes (like we gave a fuck.) With the Asstiel mention they did. Trying to make it sound like the fucker actually did anything apart from screw up. So the fews times he was on screen he was the 3rd wheel quite alot. But one of the more obvious scenes of this was in one of my favourite moments of the show. Or at least later seasons. 14x12 prophet and loss. We get an brilliant brother scene with Jared fucking killing it with the acting. It's such a great moment so of course who randomly comes walking into and adding nothing? You guessed it old 3rd wheel asstiel himself.
Can't find a gift of that moment cause who would actual gifted it?!? So will show the important bit. But yep another example of him adding nothing and just being there. Zzzzzzz
5.) In S7 when he goes nuts after taking on Sam's Hallucinations. Again shows how much stronger Sam is compared to this lame ass angel *warrior*. Sam was able to deal with Halucifer for months while Asstiel goes nuts right off the bat. Anyway cue Asstiel being dumber then normally and talking about bees.
Awesome. Really glad he came out of that lake. 👍
Thank you both anons this was fun.
Though I had to look at too many Destiel gifts for my liking and Misha's ugly mug.
I will say though when you look at older seasons of Asstiel. You really see how much and badly Misha has aged. 😬
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How Robert Berens Made Destiel Canon
or The Beautifully Tragic Road to Destiel
in honor of their one month anniversary, i want to talk about robert berens and how he made it his mission to make destiel canon and the care he took approaching their relationship...
i dont know if this has been pointed out before, but i was looking at the episodes bobo berens wrote when i realized something: he wrote all the significant destiel episodes in s15. i think that means he probably planned to make destiel canon long before s15 started:
he hid a love story inside the monster story. a love story told in five parts:
• initiating event
• rising action
• climax (first twist)
• falling action
• second twist (no resolution)
14x18: absence - “initiating event”
the initiating event introduces the conflict and sets events into motion in a story.
in absence, cas reveals to dean that jack might not have a soul and therefore might not know that hurting his mother was wrong. this angers dean and results in dean telling cas “youre dead to me”. this initiates a chain of events that lead their relationship to experience a tear (or rupture).
15x03: the rupture - “rising action”
the rising action is the result of a character trying to (in this case) solve a problem but a force is at conflict with the character. for every step taken, there is either a successful or failed outcome; this pattern continues all the way to the climax.
complications in dean and cas’s relationship continue to widen the distance between them into the start of season 15 with the deaths of rowena and belphagor (for which dean blames cas) culminating in the infamous “breakup” scene. cas said there was nothing left for him anymore and leaves dean.
15x08: our father who arent in heaven - “rising action”
bobo didnt write this episode but its important to the path because rowena tells dean and cas to fix their relationship in the same episode that michael sends them to purgatory (aka the place dean realized he was in love with cas all those years ago and where they fixed their relationship the first time)
15x09: the trap - ‘climax & first twist”
the climax is the most emotional part of the story and is reached when the character takes the final step to resolve their problem. this is also where the turning point of the story begins and descends to the falling action (and if there is a plot twist, it happens here).
the first twist: dean confesses first. this scene is deans confession disguised as an apology. he might lose cas and needed him to know hes sorry. the prayer scene is so important because, if we read the scene, this is in fact, an apology, but its so much more than that. dean responds to cas’s “i left but you didnt stop me” with “i should have stopped you”. this scene showed just how much dean has grown, how much he’s trying and how much he wants to be free of the anger he feels because he realized it was what separated him from the man he loves on multiple occasions. this is deans way of saying “im sorry. i didnt mean anything i said. you are the most important person in my life and i let you leave. i shouldnt have let you leave. thats my fault. im trying to get better. please tell me you’re gonna be okay. tell me this isnt the last time i’ll ever see you. please. i love you”.
dean and cas reunite near the rift but dean doesnt want to leave before telling cas something. we know it cant be the prayer because its obvious cas heard that; this is something else, but cas stops him. this scene is them making amends with each other the best way they know how: a silent knowing. the conflict has finally been resolved.
15x12: galaxy brain - “falling action”
the falling action consists of the after-effects of the climax and every event from here onward should lead to a logical conclusion.
dean and cas’s relationship is better, they seem at peace. the silent knowing is definitely there, and they both seem comfortable the way they left things. the way things are going, they’ll likely have as much a “happy” ending as a fallen angel and a hunter can have without talking about this silent knowing. we cant forget about the looming empty deal, but knowing cas will never be truly happy, it seems like dean and cas are going to be friends for a long time...
15x18: despair - “second twist”
after the falling action comes the resolution. sometimes in film and television, a surprise second twist will occur after the climax and toss the characters into another fight. the second twist is resolved quicker than the first and leads to a speedy resolution.
the second twist here, however, replaces the resolution because the story of destiel sadly and infuriatingly, never got its resolution.
i feel like bobo was told cas was going to get killed off and thats why he knew there was no way the network would allow dean to reciprocate so he did the best he could to work around the homophobia and make destiel canon as much as possible for us.
this is the most “resolution” we were given by a show we spent years watching and loving. we rooted for the characters, we fought as much for their happiness as they did themselves. and it ended up stabbing jensen, misha, bobo, other cast members, some writers and the fans in the back.
deans face here is all i have left to hold on to and thats not fair. and its not fair that after all these years this is what they did to one of the most complex love stories ever told. not only that, but dean and cas were also some of the complex characters ever put to screen. this is not a good ending for them and it never will be. not until they both get the endings they deserve, as individuals and as one. and im sorry for the pain all this mess has caused and would like nothing more than to squeeze everyone really tight and tell you it’ll be okay.
#destiel#cockles#jensen literally approved of misha and bobos plans for destiel#i mean whenever jensen directed he made sure there were destiel scenes#he WANTED dean and cas to become more intimate#dean and cas deserved to speak their truth and be happy together#not to mention a majority of destiel shippers and dean and cas stans are#lgbtq#so thats just another big fuck you on top of the spits and slaps to our faces with that finale#im sorry to get so negative in a post thats supposed to be positive and bring levity to the darkness we've had this past month#i just cant help but feel so much anger#for robert berens#for jensen#for misha#for us#anyways always remember#destiel is fucking canon#and#homosexual declaration of love#deancas#dean winchester#dean#castiel#cas#supernatural#supernatural final season#spn#bobo berens#jensen ackles#jensen
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I wanted to believe
I need to write this because if I don’t, I’ll go insane.
For the last 8 years of my life, Supernatural, Destiel, and this fandom have been an important part of my life. There were dark moments when I was drowning and all I kept thinking was: “I need to be alive until I know how Supernatural ends”.
I wanted to believe.
I wanted to believe TPTB actually respected us.
I wanted to believe they respected at least their characters, their story, their legacy.
I was wrong. So many of us were. And I’m truly sorry for that.
I’m more than sorry, though. I’M DEVASTATED! You see? I’m not even angry. I loved this show so much that I can’t be angry. This show gave me so much happiness for many years; it gave me Dean Winchester (the character I could relate to the most, like ever). It gave me Cas (my beloved angel capable of unconditional love). It gave me friends that I treasure and that I’m incredibly grateful for. BUT DAMN! I’M JUST SO DISSAPOINTED.
Everything was fine until the very last minutes of 15x19 when Jack became the new God and Dean didn’t bother to ask him to bring Cas back. Yet, I wanted to believe. We still had one more episode to go and no myth arc left to solve, so all logic said the story made NO SENSE without Cas because we still had the character arcs unsolved.
And then we get whatever the fuck 15x20 was supposed to be.
They flushed down the toilet Dean’s character arc. He never got to live, he never got to enjoy the free will he fought so much for. Even Chuck most likely outlived him. What the actual fuck?
We got a romanticized and uncomfortable brothers scene that I’m sure w*ncest shippers loved. We got a ridiculous wig-wearing Sam Winchester who looked miserable without his brother (for fuck’s sake!! The codependency was strong in this one!). And Dean died in the most meaningless and ridiculous way possible, when he was the character that most deserved to live.
“Good things do happen”, Castiel told Dean many years ago.
“Not in my experience”, Dean said.
So, are you telling me that Dean was right? That good things don’t happen? That to get good things all you need to do is DIE? Geez! Thank you for that, you sons of bitches! FUCK YOU.
“What’s the matter? You don’t think you deserve to be saved?”
Well, apparently the writers themselves didn’t think Dean deserved to be saved in the end. He died young, he never had the chance to live. He got a miserable ending, and for that we have real life, thank you very much.
Dean was the hero. HE DESERVED BETTER. WE DESERVED BETTER. Because sometimes we need to be reminded that after all the pain, the abuse, the suffering, everything will be alright. That you can still recover from all the trauma you’ve experienced and live a full life. That YES, you can find peace in death, but AFTER you get some sort of contentment IN LIFE. Neither Dean nor even Sam got that. For a show that’s supposedly aware of how many people in this fandom deal with depression, this ending is a slap in the face. And I can’t believe I hoped for something better when I know that…
GOOD THINGS DON’T HAPPEN. NOT IN MY EXPERIENCE.
I defended this show when they killed Charlie off in season 10. I almost quit that time. I defended this show every time they screwed up because I believed. As long as there were episodes left, there was still hope, but I was let down.
I defended this show after 15x18 when so many people shouted “bury your gays”. I defended this show after 15x19 and Jack simply said ‘bye bitches’. Now after being spat in the face, there’s no way I can defend this show, no matter the crumbs they spread for us to pick up with great effort.
This used to be a Supernatural blog. From now on, it will be a multifandom blog, and I will post everything and anything that makes me happy. Dean Winchester still makes me happy (mostly if I choose to ignore the last two episodes). Castiel still makes me happy (same applies to him). Destiel fanvids and fanfiction still make me happy. But I will NOT defend this show ever again because they disrespected us; they disrespected Misha, they disrespected Jensen, and they even disrespected Jared with a finale that showed a complete lack of effort and commitment. I’m sorry the boys’ spectacular acting had to be used in such a terrible episode –one that will make a rewatch of this show an impossible task.
Thanks to everyone who’s been following my blog –some of you even for years. And I’m really, really sorry that somehow I contributed to helping build hope in a show which proved us that family does end with blood.
#supernatural#spn spoilers#spn finale#it was easier to get it right#yet they screwed up big time#i expected so little#and still they let me down#i still can't believe it#dean deserved better#cas deserved better#misha deserved better#jensen deserved better#we deserved better
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pray, do tell
request: If you don’t mind me asking, request for Loki asking the other Loki’s if they have a s/o in their timeline during episode 5?
a/n: hi ! i absolutely ADORE this idea and i hope i'll write it out respectfully :)) i loved episode 5 so much, except for SOME scenes, and i especially enjoyed multiple lokis sitting around and talking, chilling, that's like... my dream place to be. YOU DON'T KNOW THE EFFECT PRESIDENT LOKI HAS ON ME. like it should be studied in labs and schools cos ??????? that feeling when he's on screen was just something else. also ! kid loki holding alligator loki my beloved <3. i'd love to be surrounded by lokis, me and loki actually have the same personality type so they're like... my people. sorry for the rant, hahah ! this one is a bit shorter than my other loki works, sorry about that :/ also it took me like 40 minutes to find decent gifs lmao. happy reading !! <3
masterlist
mcu masterlist
warnings: nothing really
disclaimer: lokis mentioned have he/him pronouns !
Weirded out by what he's seeing, and not entirely sure it's real, Loki can't take his eyes off it, either. The way alligator Loki drinks his boxed wine is just so fascinating to him, yet weird and other-wordly (he knows those well) at the same time. And he's weirded out more by the fact that he doesn't find a variant of him being an alligator strange in any way. He's had a few trying days, as he said himself.
Loki manages to divert his eyes off the creature with horns on its head and looks to the grapes he holds in his hand. He picks small dirt away from the berries and takes a grape into his mouth with ease. The taste reminds him of many things. His childhood, his home, his family... Thor, Frigga, Odin, Sif and the Warriors Three. Asgard. The Gardens, the waters, the Bifrost. Heimdall. Visits to the city, the markets, the celebrations.
Love.
Loki blinks, fooling himself and others by aiming to portray that he's not thinking about anything important. But he is. She was the most important thing to him, and now... Well, maybe during the New York heist, she's still fine, but after Ragnarok... Loki fears too much to think about it.
He wishes he could remember everything with her that followed New York, but all he has of their future is some worn-out tape in the TVA archives. Perhaps even pictures... He wants to live through all they had now, he wishes he could do that most of all. Of course, there's the finding Mobius and helping Sylvie burn down the TVA thing, but upon remembering her, it all falls into the background.
His first love. Not a god, like him, but she was a goddess in his eyes. He smiles now, subtly, at the fond memories of her. He noticed the little moments he had with her in the tape Mobius had, about his whole future. How beautiful she always was, her subtle way of laughing and going about her smiles and giggles, how exceptional and different her clothes always were, how her hair shined in any light...
“Did any of you...” Loki starts to say, and sighs shortly before continuing, thinking he'll probably regret asking it, “did any of you leave a... a lover behind when the TVA arrested you? Prince or princess?” He looks between his variants. Young Loki shoots him a stern look. “Apologies, my liege. You seem too young for that.” Loki bids him a polite smile, but his brain whirs. “How long have you been here, anyway?”
“Don't know. Time doesn't really... exist here.” Young Loki says and throws a salt biscuit into alligator Loki's jaws. “But no lovers in my lifetime, Loki.” He pointedly looks at the older variant of himself, nodding slightly.
“Not yet, at least.” Loki points out and gets scoffs and chuckles from Boastful and Classic Loki. He looks at them with a furrowed brow.
“Oh, you and your grand plan,” Classic Loki shakes his head before taking another sip from his huge cup. Loki only rolls his eyes, but still waits for answers to his question, “well,” Classic Loki downs his drink, “it would be no surprise to you that I had countless partners before I chose isolation. Partners of any kind.” He winks. Loki nods, understanding how much alike he truly is with his variants. “But I feel there is no one truly... truly made for me. Like midgardians would say - 'the one'.“
“In my case, there were many 'the ones',” Boastful Loki says, mocking Classic's use of words. All other Lokis roll their eyes, “I actually feel like every person in the whole universe was made to be with me. I'm just that irresistible.” He smiles pleasantly to himself. Alligator Loki growls again.
“That's another “liar” from him to you, Boast,” Classic Loki nods his head towards Boastful, who only shakes his head and frowns.
“I had my fair share of men and women before I was taken,” Boastful says, “must have been the same for you, Loki.” He looks at him. “Asgard was truly a giving place.”
Loki chuckles, but looks away from his variants. “Oh, it was...” he says quietly, “it was.” His voice grows even more quiet. Young and Classic Loki exchange a look.
“Do tell us, your mischievousness.” Classic Loki urges him. Loki shoots him a nervous look, then he leans back into the sofa and sighs, his eyes strictly focused on his hands.
“I had plenty before I met... one,” he starts to say, “me and her share a past, and, it seems, a future as well. After New York, I am taken to Asgard, imprisoned, but she is there. I fake my death and rule over Asgard as Odin, and she's there. I help Thor destroy our evil sister--”
“Oh, she was a nasty one.” Boastful says, shaking his head. “We used to have a connection, but then she just... I don't even know.” He shrugs. Loki eyes him for a second before continuing.
“We destroyed Asgard, but saved its people, and saved her. We make for Midgard, and she's there with me.” Loki sighs, his eyes gloomy. “And then... Thanos attacks, destroys half, if not all our people, and...” he can't even speak further. His variants share a look, each having quite the correct guess for what could follow after that. Boastful drinks from his cup in an awkward manner. “But I feel like that's another life I lived. Or another me. I don't know, I feel so... disconnected from her, from what we had. Must be the TVA and this... void. And all that's happened, all I've learned about my future.” He sighs again.
“Meeting her again would be a wake-up call, no?” Boastful asks. Loki shrugs, a sad expression on his face.
“Rather a sign that you're real.” Classic Loki says with a wide, true smile. Loki looks to him as if looking at a mentor. “I often felt like the people I loved and the love I had for them, even if it was not reciprocated, were a reminder that I am real, I exist and I can feel all these things.”
Loki considers his words, and then nods along, finding a truth in them.
“After all, love and all other emotions are the human part in all of us.” Classic says. “And it isn't always bad to feel like a regular human being.” Loki can also find truth in those words. Love makes one feel alive, makes you feel like you're on the right path, found the right person, found your purpose. It doesn't always have to be glorious, it can be small, but nonetheless important to you.
“I used to think humans smaller than us, more pathetic and puny, but...” Loki shakes his head, “we, gods, are just the same, really.” He chuckles sadly. “Having quarrels over the stupidest things, being as imperfect as humans... Sometimes I even felt like I was too good, too perfect for something like true love, which is a pathetic emotion that makes you feel all kinds of other feelings, but...” he smiles, “often times I felt like that, she told me everyone was deserving of love, even me.” His smile grows wider.
“She sounds lovely.” Classic Loki tells him with a kind smile.
“She was that, and more.” Loki nods along. Young Loki imitates the sound of a snore and throws a crumpled piece of paper at Loki's shoulder.
“You're making me extremely bored.” He announces and sits straighter in his chair, looking over the mess that is his palace. “Love's boring.” Young Loki throws a juice carton across the room, making a face.
“You are just too young to understand and know it, your majesty.” Boastful says with a wink, and the next juice carton is flying over his head with a snicker from Young Loki. Classic Loki keeps Boastful tight in his seat so an argument wouldn't arise, and Boastful hesitantly restrains, his drink almost spilling over his cup. Loki watches them with a sappy smile on his features, and decides this is a good place to spend eternity at, even without her.
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Supernatural and the topic of found family — family don’t end in blood… or does it?
I know I’ve talked a great deal about the way the complete erasure of both Cas and Eileen from the two final episodes of SPN made my blood boil, but after careful consideration and a lot of talking with several very clever people (you know who you are), I think what hurt me the most on top of it all is the way Supernatural decided to essentially throw away an entire section of what made the show what it was for the best part of the last decade and a half: the topic of found family, and how they’ve carefully crafted so many important side characters and relationships only to throw them all away for the sake of having one last episode essentially disconnected from the rest of the story.
[Because I’ve talked about in great length over the course of the past week and a half, and although there are undoubtedly more issues with Supernatural’s series finale than just this (ie: the Destiel treatment and the queer erasure, along with the complete erasure of Eileen, the only disabled character this show has ever known), I’m going to concentrate solely on the treatment of found family, and why its erasure from the finale storyline is deeply upsetting on top of being utterly inexplicable. If you want to read an incredible article about this, I’d redirect you to @chill-legilimens article’s, The Trauma of Silence]
When Supernatural started airing in 2005, the show essentially focused on Sam and Dean and their relationship, with a dash of John Winchester and mending the broken pieces between a father and his sons into the mix. The first side character that gets introduced to the audience as some sort of surrogate father to both Winchesters is Bobby (1x22, Devil’s Trap), and he quickly became a fan favorite to the fandom. Interestingly enough, Bobby is also the one who comes up with the “Family don’t end with blood” line (if I’m not mistaken, the first time it’s said on the show is during 3x16, No Rest for the Wicked). Once this line gets said, it quickly became more than just a slogan within the fandom, and it’s often referenced as a motto for the show as well (Dean even uses it during his talk with Crowley in season 10 to explain what family means).
Over the years, so many characters got introduced and became fan favorites (off the top of my head, I can come up with half a dozen already) and have grown within the show, to the point where they’re introduced to the audience as some sort of found family to both Dean and Sam. The boys get invited to Jody Mills’ and her wayward daughter’s house for dinner, spend what can only be qualified as a slumber party watching Game of Thrones with Charlie Bradbury in the bunker, keep running around and bickering with Crowley, spends time in the bunker with Eileen (the margaritas and Sam and Eileen being hungover the morning after in the bunker’s kitchen lives rent-free in my head). Even the Ghostfacers keep popping in almost every season for a decade. The audience gets to learn who these characters are and connect with them on several levels, most of them also becoming fan favorites over time.
But if I had to pick only one side character to make a point, Castiel is undoubtedly the one that comes to mind first.
When Misha Collins came along during season 4, he was only supposed to be in for a couple of episodes and be done with it. But because of his masterful performance (and because the character of Anna, who gets introduced around the same time as Castiel, doesn’t seem to work as well as the writers thought it would), Misha stayed along for the whole ride, and ended his run on Supernatural 12 years and 144 episodes later, with a character that is so beloved by the fandom that it elevated him to the rank of third lead. Castiel is not only an angel of the Lord, he’s also Sam and Dean’s best friend who would do anything to protect them (and, well, has done so, multiple times). He’s grown within the show to the point where the audience directly refers to him as being one of the family, even though he’s not blood, because “Family don’t end with blood” after all.
Another example that is particularly telling over the course of the last couple of seasons is the treatment of Jack’s character, who’s quickly adopted by the boys and referred to as “their kid”, the three of them acting like surrogate dads even though in the end, Jack is Lucifer’s son. Once again, the show makes a point of showing the audience that although Jack is not related to Sam and Dean in any way (I’m guessing since Lucifer is basically Castiel’s brother, he is somewhat related to Cas, but since I don’t have a degree in angel DNA, I can’t 100% be sure), he’s still family, he still matters.
The story basically tells the audience that even though you might not have a blood-related family, that doesn’t prevent you to find people along your life’s journey that becomes intrinsically connected to your story, both on a deeply emotional and practical level. It tells you that you’re not required to have a blood family to be someone’s kid, or sister, or brother. It tells you that blood doesn’t define who you choose to share your life with, and most importantly, it tells you that you’re allowed to choose.
So why on Earth did anyone think that ending Supernatural’s 15-year run with an episode that essentially showcases Sam and Dean and sidelines the wide majority of the family they found along the way (with the exception of OG Bobby showing up in Heaven) was a good idea?
Don’t get me wrong, I love Bobby, I really do… But what was the excuse for not having either Misha back (the literal third lead of the show, who confessed to being in love with Dean, the second lead of the show, two episodes prior), or Alex (Jack being one of the main focus of the past two seasons at least)? I get that Covid made all of this difficult, but you can’t tell me you’ve been able to bring back Mark Pellegrino’s Lucifer for a two minutes and a half cameo in 15x19, but not Misha fucking Collins to end his character’s arc (and Dean’s, who’s arc is deeply wired with Castiel’s) after 12 years.
I’m gonna say it again, because I feel like it’s been used as an excuse for everything ever since the finale aired: Covid cannot be the sole excuse for everything. It cannot account for the absence of literally EVERYONE around the Winchesters.
At that point, I should probably add that although I was incredible baffled by the one-off mention of Cas (well, two, if you count Sam saying he misses him and Dean deflecting during the Pie Fest at the beginning of the episode), what probably set me off the most is the part of Dean’s death speech where he says “when it all came down to it, it was always you and me, it’s always been you and me”.
I’m sorry Dean, you know I love you to pieces, but what the actual fuck was that? What does it even mean? That single line essentially strips away any kind of meaningful contribution of any side characters… Including Castiel “always happy to bleed for the Winchesters”’s, and Jack’s who quite literally saved the whole world ONE EPISODE PRIOR.
Not to mention that the fact we don’t get to see Cas again leave Dean’s entire character’s arc incomplete. What was the point of season 15, which focused so deeply on Dean and Cas’ relationship, if in the end the entire character’s arc gets dropped?
So what’s the message being sent here?
“Found family was a myth, it’s always been sorely about the Winchesters”?
“Ha! Tricked ya!”?
Why did Supernatural, after a decade and a half spent consolidating the contribution of side characters, decided to essentially throw it all away?
Why did Supernatural, after a decade spent crafting meaningful relationships within the show, decided to light it all up on fire and end its run with an episode that basically tells the audience that none of it really mattered, it’s always been sorely about Dean and Sam.
I would’ve been fine with a Sam and Dean episode if Castiel had more than a one-off mention, if they didn’t give Sam a blurry wife, if Dean had the funeral he deserved (with a rock band, whisky, and all the fellow hunters and family he found along the way), if Sam didn’t spend the rest of his life mourning his brother. I would’ve been fine with only getting Jim Beaver on screen (because Covid) if we had been given something more than just Dean driving for his last 5 minutes on screen. It would have been FINE, if Supernatural hadn’t essentially forgotten about what made Supernatural, well, Supernatural.
Long story short, I feel tricked. And I know a lot of you feel tricked too, because this isn’t what we’ve been fed for the past 15 years. Supernatural was a show about finding your way through life and death and horror and trauma, with help from people you found along the way who became linked to your story because you cared for each other. And Supernatural ended by telling us that found family didn’t really matter, that Dean was always going to die on a random hunt, that Sam could never be truly happy without his brother by his side. Talk about a downgrade, uh?
I don’t know why they decided to throw their entire legacy to the wind. Truth be told, I don’t think we’ll ever get to know. But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to stay pissed about it. That doesn’t mean I’m going to ever be okay with my favorite show deciding to end its run with a finale episode so deeply disconnected from their 15-year story that it felt utterly shallow.
They said “Family don’t end with blood”… But after all of this, doesn’t it, though?
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what makes you think the writers want deancas? not trying to be an asshole, i'm just genuinely curious as to why you think that. i know berens' episodes are pretty heavy with subtext so i can see why you'd say that he wants it, but i'm not so sure about the rest of the writers/dabb. it seems like meghan isn't a huge fan either, given her "they twisted it so fast" tweet :/ of course she's a very new writer (think she's only writing one ep this season?) but still
OKAY this is a great question, welcome to my dissertation.
I’m going to address the end of your question first. Meghan is actually DeanCas positive, she has been for quite a long time. She actually, a few years back, posted a picture of her reading a literal book about Destiel and captioned it “writing reading” or something like that.
This whole thing just comes out of a boiling over of tensions because of how nasty fandom twitter can be. Like I said here, I think this has just gotten blown out of proportion, they shouldn’t have posted all this randomly disparaging stuff, but also like...can you blame them? The fandom is a lot, we always have been, and they’re probably also under a gag order not to talk about the finale, and are annoyed that people keep asking.
So nah, Meg is not anti Destiel.
To the first part!! So let’s take a look at the show runners since Cas has been around.
Seasons 4 and 5: Kripke
Seasons 6 and 7: Gamble
Seasons 8-11ish: Carver
Seasons 11ish-15: Dabb
So starting with Kripke. Okay, yes, I will be the first to admit that we have some pretty incredible Destiel moments in these seasons, but it’s less directly written into the plot and much more from Misha and Jensen’s uhhhh ~chemistry~. The only times it was directly written into the script was when the episode was handled by someone like Edlund (“On The Head Of A Pin,” “The End,” “My Bloody Valentine”). And you have to remember, if in season 5, there are moments here and there where you’re like huh that’s suspiciously romantic dialogue, remember that Cas took Anna’s place. Anna was supposed to be endgame for Dean, but due to a myriad of issues and Misha’s general greatness, Anna was replaced with Cas.
Onto 6 and 7. Hmmm. Gamble. 6 and 7 are my two least favorite seasons and that’s no secret, and that’s not only due to the plain old weird shit in the overall storyline, but also that homegirl killed off Cas in s7 and then Bobby like four episodes later. (Also it ALWAYS rubbed me the wrong way they couldn’t have Baby in that season lol). We still had some great DeanCas moments, but again, it wasn’t really written into the overall arc (until they had to change the end of season 7 because of tanking ratings and bring Misha back lol, anyone remember the fact that Dean kept Cas’ jacket and would randomly dream of him? Yeah.). But we still had those moments, those distinctly romantic moments, probably the best example in these two seasons is from Edlund again, specifically “The Man Who Would be King,” I wrote a little about that here.
We move onto Carver, who gave us, at this point, the most overt DeanCas season with season 8 (season gr8 is a better name imo), and this is the first time Dean and Cas’ relationship is directly written as an arc of the season. I mean, you have everything in Purgatory, Dean “seeing” Cas everywhere, the fact that he felt so guilty that Cas stayed in Purgatory that he manipulated his own memories to think that he was the one that failed Cas, because he couldn’t comprehend that Cas would want to leave him, and let’s not forget Dean snapping Cas out of Naomi’s hold on him in “Goodbye Stranger.” It was a very obvious shift, not enough to alert the general audience, but more than enough for most of us in fandom.
It’s also important to note that this is when Andrew stopped co writing with Loflin and started writing his own episodes (”Hunter Heroici” anyone?) I like Loflin fine, but Dabb was able to stretch his legs a little bit more once he stopped co-writing, and we also began to see some DeanCas themes in his solo episodes.
In any case, them and their issues being a big part of the seasons continued with Carver, and Berens entered the scene, his first episode (”Heaven Can’t Wait”) is one of my favorites, with human Cas and the fanfiction gap and Dean and Cas just generally being awkward and funny and sweet. This is Bobo’s FIRST episode, remember that. He comes right out of the gate with it.
Also in Season 9, this is when Dean takes the Mark of Cain, and the Cas/Colette mirror is born, so obviously, Dean and Cas are the fabric of the season once again. This is also the season where Metatron says Cas is “in love with humanity,” and then immediately refers to Dean as Humanity so uhhhh yeah.
Onto season 10, Dabb and Berens continue with their greatness (I could write pages on the DeanCas date in “The Things We Left Behind” alone). And then we have one of the best scenes in the entire show in “The Prisoner” where the Cas/Colette mirror continues and Dean, driven by grief and pain and rage and the Mark, still doesn’t kill Cas. He still can’t kill Cas.
Season 11 is important because it takes choice away from both Cas and Dean, and shows us, as the audience, how much losing each other takes out of them. We saw in season 10 how much losing Dean takes from Cas, but what about Cas losing Dean? Dean loses his choice with his connection to Amara this season, and loses even more when Lucifer reveals he’s been possessing Cas, and plays on Dean’s connection to Cas like a mockery. It’s also worth noting that, similarly to season 8, Dean breaks out of the connection with Amara when he’s worried about Cas, and that’s something that even SHE is surprised by.
But then season 12, the beginning to the Renaissance. This is when we get the writer’s that become important for what Dean and Cas are today, and, truly, why I believe they want canon Destiel as much as we do.
This is the first season with Dabb’s writers: Davy Perez, Meredith Glynn, Steve Yockey, and of course Bobo all come in with their incredible talents and gave us episode after episode of good content. “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets” is probably my favorite, probably the best example of what I’m saying. An episode where Dean is called out by an enemy directly, told to “roll the dice” on Cas’ life. And Dean won’t, it’s not even really a hesitation. And this comes from a character that has known Dean for ten seconds. I also wrote more in depth about this episode here. There are also some.....distinctly domestic details we get this season, specifically in “The Future” (written by Berens and Glynn) with the mixtape. The most tropey of tropes mixtape. Yeah, I’ll just leave that one here.
And then season 12 ends with Cas’ death, but also with the parallel between Sam and Dean with Jess and Cas. Sam literally has to drag Dean away from Cas, just like Dean had to drag Sam out of his burning apartment in the pilot. The episode drives it home in every way that it can: Dean is the one left kneeling by Cas’ body, while Sam goes to find out what is upstairs. Dean is the one who stares at the sky, finally broken. This isn’t a random thing, this is Dean’s whole arc, it’s the entirety of the beginning of 13. Dean’s pain, his anguish, his anger.
Season 13 starts with them burning Cas, with Dean, who has begged God to bring him back, who has split his knuckles punching a door, standing, staring at Cas’ pyre with brokenness on his face.
I mean.....
Anyway, season 13 is where it gets interesting (well, I think all of this is interesting but I’m a writer nerd so). So Cas comes back from the Empty in “Advanced Thanatology” written by Steve Yockey, and then a wombo combo of “Tombstone” by Davy Perez next (”Brokebacknatural” as the PR said at the time). Listen. This is the part that SPN crossed a line that they couldn’t come back from. With Cas being Dean’s “big win,” the fact that Dean and Cas watch movies together, “I told you, he’s an angry sleeper. Like a bear.” Talked about it here.
This is where, in my opinion, the network stepped in, but the damage was already done. They had already established that Cas was Dean’s big win, that Dean’s poor coping was not due to Mary’s disappearance, but solely due to Cas, and that Dean and Cas have more married energy than anyone else. The network had nixed blatant canon at this point, and they writing room had been pushing the boundaries of what the network would allow.
After these episodes, we see a marked drop off of DeanCas heavy scenes. They’re still there, still a part of the fabric of the season, but not as...obvious as it had been in early season 13.
And this continued through season 14, we’re back to scraps of Destiel scenes here and there, but to me it always felt like there was something bubbling under the surface, something distinctly unsaid in the themes of the season, even after the walk back of obvious “Dean and Cas are in love” scenes.
And then we get to season 15, which, y’all know I talk about all the time. What’s important here is that Bobo and Glynn are both executive producers, calling more of the shots than ever before. Additionally, it’s important to note that, though they only co write occasionally, Glynn and Berens refer to each other as “work husband” and “work wife.” Each episode has just turned up the volume, and, not for the first time, but certainly the most obvious, Dean and Cas ARE the season. Sure, they’re trying to beat God, they’re trying to finally find peace, defeat the final big bad, but really? This season has been about Dean, and Dean’s relationship to Cas.
And not only do we have obvious and clear Destiel in nearly every episode, but we have episodes like “Last Call” which canonize bi!Dean (wrote about that here).
And, maybe most importantly so far, we have “The Rupture,” the breakup, and “The Trap,” Dean’s confession (both written by Berens). And here’s the thing. These episodes feel connected, but also feel like they’re missing something. Beren’s last episode is 15x18, “The Truth.” We’ve all spec’ed about what could happen in this episode, and I think *I* know what it’s leading to. But for it to be leading to that, it means that the network has to have approved what we’ve all been waiting for years for.
Who got this change to happen? Who got the network to change their minds? It wasn’t us. It was them. I am fully convinced that Dabb and Berens quite literally put their careers on the line for Dean and Cas. They believe in them, they’ve shown that from the beginning, but the only thing standing in the way was the network, never allowing them to take the final step.
So, to answer your question: I think the writers want canon DeanCas because they’ve already shown us that they do. Take a look at their episodes, at Dabb’s, at Beren’s, at Glynn’s, at Perez’s, at Yockey’s. They’ve been telling us what’s going on with Dean and Cas for years.
Sure, I’m not in their heads, I guess I don’t know for *sure* that this has been their thought process, but if we put it all together, from the marked shift when Dabb fully took over in s12, to the change right after “Tombstone,” to the new shift, the blatantly romantic shift in season 15, what else is there?
I’ve said for a long time that we, the SPN fandom, are beyond lucky to have the writer’s that we do. They’re all going to go on to have prolific careers and we were lucky to get them at the end of our little show. I give them a lot of credit for what we have in the show today.
Just remember, they’ve been telling us in all of s15 who Chuck is. He says he’s the writer, right? But a writer who doesn’t have control of his characters? A writer who wants to do the same ending over and over because it “works”? That doesn’t sound like a writer, it sounds like a network exec.
They’ve been showing us what they want for years, and the way s15 is going? I think they may have convinced the network to let us have it.
#supernatural#destiel#spn#my writing#anyway yeah i love these writers#welcome to my essay lmao#spn writers#anonymous#lilly answers
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Thoughts on destiel?
Oh boy.
I have thoughts on this, a multi-part fuck-off sized meta level thoughts on this, but as it happens my past self has done me a huge favor on this one.
Devoted followers of this blog will remember the Muffin and I made our own TV tropes. This is not a tropes dictionary we'll ever publish in full, so don't ask, but every so often an ask hits just right (like when we have to justify "Aro is Charlie Kelly") and there's nothing to it but to publish an entry.
And it so happens that I made a Destiel entry some time ago. Note before you read this, the structure of these tropes is that we include definitions of what the trope is (sometimes there are several meanings, hence the enumeration), as well as an explanation of what the trope even is.
Keep in mind that this was never meant to be published, it was meant for our eyes only. But hey, you asked and this saves me time.
Also, yes I know all of this is fucking weird.
Edit: another important note, I stopped watching in early season 9 and really only consider the first five seasons canon. This is in large parts because the show just failed to do anything at all that I enjoyed after that, and several things the show did, like “oh season 4 wasn’t anything special for Cas, he actually rebels all the time lol. CRACK IN HIS CHASSIS”, made it impossible for me to enjoy the show. It’s just easier to make the cutoff at the Kripke era while things still pretend to mean anything.
Destiel
/dəstɪel/;
1
Noun
A nonexistent ship. A Destiel ship is when the fandom ships Character A with Sexy Lamp B. The Destiel ship is past incompatible, because you could still get relationship angst and in turn a ship out of incompatibility. The Destiel ship is nonexistent because one half of the ship is of a nature that means he cannot meaningfully be in a romantic relationship with anybody, regardless of how much character development he goes through or even how much love there may be between him and character A. Originating from Supernatural, a TV series whose fans came to passionately ship one of the show’s main characters, Dean Winchester, with the angel Castiel. Dean Winchester is a womanizing redneck dudebro with daddy issues. Castiel is a multi-dimensional celestial entity created to fulfill God’s Will. Castiel is not boyfriend material. Not to be confused with Anna/Elsa or Christine/Erik.
Lily/Rabbit is a Destiel ship.
Steven Universe is full of Destiel ships.
2
Destiel, the abbreviation of Dean Winchester/Castiel, is the insanely popular slash ship that rose up in the Supernatural fandom in the show’s fourth season, when the character Castiel was introduced. Originally a Honey Maren ship, the ship has since grown to quite possibly have the most notable fandom on the internet. Notable is really the only word for it, these people invented ABO, ruled supreme on social media for years, and in many ways made Supernatural’s reputation what it is today. Their impact on fanfiction and slash culture is immense. Unfortunately, the ship is the worst. On a very fundamental level, Dean does not understand what Castiel is, and he never truly forgives him for being a supernatural creature. When he tries to bond with him, it’s over human things Castiel has no understanding of, which in turn only serves to highlight how lonely Dean is, that the closest thing he has to a friend is a celestial entity he doesn’t begin to understand. Castiel, on his end, loves Dean, but in the way of angels. He loves all of God’s creations, some more than others but still not in a carnal way. He’s a multidimensional wavelength of celestial intent, he feels no hunger, thirst, pain, or pleasure (or if he does then it’s usually a sign something is extremely wrong and he’ll spend the episode whining about it). The one time he does experience temptation, he’s not actually experiencing his own temptation, it’s Jimmy Novak’s consciousness giving him trouble. Angels don’t feel emotions the way humans do, what they have seems to be a different concept altogether. There’s also the fact that Castiel can’t walk the Earth in his true form, so he must possess the form of Jimmy Novak if he wants screentime. Jimmy Novak is not happy about this, he at first didn’t understand what he was saying yes to then was later coerced with the threat of certain death and his daughter’s endless torment if he didn’t let Castiel possess him. If Dean and Castiel are somehow having sex, they’re raping Jimmy Novak. Lastly, the relationship is quite toxic, as Dean is a toxic person, and his relationship with Castiel is no exception. In short, Destiel is a horrifying, impossible ship that hinges on Castiel looking upon his Father’s creation and saying “I want to stick Jimmy Novak’s dick in that.”, Dean raping a vessel after spending his life freeing people like Jimmy, and sexual love between a human and a divine entity being feasible.
#supernatural#castiel/dean winchester#anti castiel/dean winchester#supernatural meta#anti supernatural#supernatural angels#castiel#dean winchester
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