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Episode 90 Transcript: Sam’s Stand-Up Career, OVER!

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many, many times…

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, [laughs] we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 8: “Changing Channels,” written by Jeremy Carver, directed by Charles Beeson.

C: Is this just the season of being weird about Asian people? [G: I don’t know.] Just last week!

G: I don't know. I don't know. [C laughs] I mean, okay, first, I want to say that “Changing Channels” is an episode that I've watched more recently than the other ones, as I've mentioned last episode. I watched it around the time- you remember, when I watched “Dog Dean Afternoon” and I was trying to convince everyone in the podcast that it's the best Supernatural episode of all time? Around that time- [C: I don’t think you said that, but yeah.] Well! [laughs] It was the vibe. But I also watched this around that time. So this is a lot more fresh in my memory.

C: So you like it less than “Dog Dean Afternoon.”

G: Oh, absolutely. “Dog Dean Afternoon” is the best Supernatural episode of all time. [C laughs] Well, it's not. But it could be! Yeah. So this one, I kind of have a beat-by-beat knowledge of the episode already. And even then I was so surprised that it was so nothing. [C: Yeah] I, for some reason, had the feeling, watching this without the mindset of “I'm gonna talk about it in the podcast,” that there were more funny bits, there were more “they're in a TV show” bits. But apparently not. Apparently it's just what it was.

C: I think it's just a joke that works best the first time round, and then not on repeat. [G: Yeah.] Like, I think it is funny the first time.

G: Well, define “first time.”

C: The first time you watch the episode ever, [laughs] I suppose.

G: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, perhaps so. Maybe it's the “because I remember it,” that's what makes it etc, etc. It is a very interesting concept for an episode. And yeah, I have gripes on how they handled some of the shows, especially Dr. Sexy, M.D. I mean, this has been said on Tumblr before, but it is a bit frustrating that they're making fun of Grey’s Anatomy, and the way they do it is it's about a hot male doctor, and it's like, well, Grey’s Anatomy is not about Dr. Sexy, aka the hot doctor that Meredith marries for a while and then dies. It's about Meredith Grey! You're such a loser, whoever you are, Jeremy Carver, [C laughs] for fucking characterizing Grey’s Anatomy this way.

C: I've never watched Grey’s Anatomy. All I know is that Sandra Oh was on it. [G: Yeah.] And that there's gay sex in it at some point.

G: Yeah, you know, when Sandra Oh leaves, I think I legitimately- I don't remember if this is true, but I think I had this thought- so maybe it's not true, maybe it is- that they danced to a Tegan and Sara song, and I was like, “That's pretty gay.” [C: What? Who did?] There's a lot of- Sandra Oh's character, so Cristina Yang, I think, is her name, and Meredith [laughs] they danced to a Tegan and Sara song. [C: That's pretty gay.] When Sandra Oh leaves the show, and I was like, “Well, maybe they are in love, or whatever the fuck.” [C: Maybe they are!] But yeah, there's really a lot of anemic pop this episode. Just like Eric Kripke did- not want.

C: Did not want, yeah. I mean, he wished for it to be shoved up our asses, or whatever he said.

G: Crystal, what did you know about this episode before going in, by the way?

C: So Gabriel puts them in alternate universes where they play characters on shows, like sitcoms and hospital dramas. Cas appears a few times with duct tape over his mouth, looking really hot. At some point, Sam is the Impala, because there was a Tumblr poll that was, “Which of these things didn't happen in Supernatural,” and I think I clicked on "Sam is the Impala." And then I was like, “Wait, no, he is, though.” [laughs] [G: He literally was the Impala.] And then at some point, they trap Gabriel and holy fire, and he tells them to follow their fate, or something, because he's sad about his brothers fighting, or something. Yeah. oh, and, as mentioned before, I knew that there would be a girl in a bikini in the sitcom universe, and that she would be Asian. So yeah! [laughs]

G: Cas is, I think I mentioned this last episode when you were like, “Oh, ‘Changing Channels’ is next, is upcoming.” He is nothing this episode, like, what even, he doesn’t do anything.

C: He doesn’t even speak? Even during the Gabriel confrontation?

G: Literally Cas “No Line” Stiel, what? He does a menacing look, menacing look back to Gabriel. But that's it.

C: Yeah, both he and Sam are very “i to am in this episode” during the confrontation with Gabriel, which makes me quite upset. [G: It was a bit wild. Yeah.] Given that Dean also got all the lines during Raphael being trapped in holy fire, too, like?

G: This one I’m more bitter about, really, because Sam was the one

C: Yes, because Sam was the one who wanted to talk to the Trickster in the beginning, they completely dropped the ball on that.

G: Yeah, exactly! Yeah, I don’t know.

C: Like when Dean goes, “Come on, Sam,” to get him to leave with him, and then Sam does, I was fuming.

G: Yeah. This episode starts with a “Then” sequence that is truly so on the nose, on the face, everything and everything. A lot of like, “Oh, you're Lucifer’s vessel. Oh, you're Michael's vessel,” and then we get the Trickster, and stuff from “Tall Tales,” stuff from “Mystery Spot.” And yeah. I forget, how does Mystery Spot end? How does it get resolved?

C: Sam does not tell Dean. Well, okay, I guess, okay Dean dies for real. [G: Yeah, and Sam goes on a six-month trip, or whatever.] Six month giant revenge quest. And then Bobby shows up and Sam's like, “I'm gonna kill you to get all of your blood in order to summon the Trickster and kill him.” But then Bobby is the Trickster, and then Sam's like, “You have to bring Dean back and turn time back, or I'll kill you,” or some shit like that. And then it happens, and then it's Wednesday, and Sam tells Dean that nothing happened.

G: So why do they not know that the stake is still not gonna work? What's the logic behind that?

C: Uhh. Good question! [laughs]

G: Uncertain. Yeah. [C: Yeah, I don't know.] Well, they didn't, so there’s that. [C: Yeah.] It is super fun to see Dean die over and over again in “Mystery Spot.” [laughs]

C: Yeah, like, I wish.

G: And I love that this “Then” sequence ends with the Trickster being like, “Oh, see, Dean's your weakness. Blah blah blah! It's gonna be the death of you, Sam,” which I feel like I did not appreciate when it first aired as much as I should have. But now I'm like, “Yeah.” Oh Sam.

C: Oh Sam. But they do nothing with Sam this episode, so I don't really know why that's how the then sequence ends.

G: So, we start the episode in a motel. And it is like-

C: Oh, also, this episode aired on November 5, 2009, so that's fun.

G: Oh, my God! Stackednatural places this beside “Despair.” [C: Yeah.] What an uglyass episode title. “Despair.” They should have stuck with “The Truth.” Well, anyway, it's a sitcom style.

C: Yeah, the coloring is very saturated, but also looks exactly the same as late-season Supernatural.

G: Yeah. And it starts with Dean's voiceover going, “Supernatural is filmed before a live studio audience.” Anyway, Dean is making a sandwich, and it's tall. "I'm gonna need a bigger mouth, blah blah blah.” They do this bit, I don't know.

C: Yeah. And the best thing is that we learn later that they're not under any mind control. [G: Yeah!] Sam and Dean decided to put their pussies into doing sitcom acting.

G: So real. I think this one, this part of the episode, is the one where they're already like, “Oh, we need to play our roles,” so that makes sense. It makes sense.

C: Yeah, but I watched this with Danica, and she made the point that Sam got out of the herpes commercial land, despite not particularly playing along [G: Being horrible!] besides just saying the lines. [G: Yeah.] So they could have just said the lines. But no, they're doing their goofy hands on hips, cocking their heads, all that shit. That was voluntary.

G: Yeah, maybe this was Sam's dream all along. Maybe Sam always wanted to be a comedian, and that's why we're here.

C: [laughs] Oh, god! Well, I’m glad that he’ll never listen to this podcast because of how much we call him unfunny.

G: I think Sam would be like, “I should be a stand-up comedian.” I solemnly think that in another universe [C: What? Really?] Sam would believe that he would be a good stand up comedian. [C: Why would he think that?] And he absolutely would not be. I don’t know, he'll be like, "I have interesting stories to tell, and I can tell them in a comedic way. [C: Can he?] And that’s standup comedy!" And then he literally is the most unfunny person in the room at all times. [C laughs]

C: I think if he told stories about hunting straightforwardly, people would find them funny, but because he would try to act them out to make them funnier, they would stop being funny.

G: He would do his comedy shows at hunter bars, and his audience will all be hunters, and they'll be, like, “Haha Sam. That's so funny,” [C laughs] and they will only be doing it because they're afraid of Sam Winchester! [laughs]

C: [laughs] Yes.

G: Well, yeah, there's this bit also where Sam is like, “Have you done your research?” And Dean’s like, “Oh, my research, yeah.” And then a woman opens the bathroom door, and she's in a bikini.

C: And she's Asian.

G: And she’s Asian. I don't know. Are we gonna talk about it here?

C: Talk about what. Just how it’s annoying?

G: I don’t know. Yeah. It's just- whatever, we've already talked about it last episode.

C: Supernatural is not beating the allegations, not beating the percentage of Asian women that exist on the show and- [G: Were sexualized on the show.] yeah.

G: [both] Well. It ends with a “Son of a bitch!” from Dean and a laugh track. And then we get- you know what, a truly very cute title sequence. [C: Yeah!] I thought it was hilarious. [C: It's nice.] Yeah. And I love that the line is- there's a song that's playing in this opening sequence, and they're all doing goofy bits, biking around. There's a point where Sam opens a cabinet, and there's a very fake white sheet ghost inside, and he closes it, and he leans back like, “I'm so scawed!” Which is so funny.

C: Yeah. And then he just starts laughing or something.

G: Yeah, there's one where Dean gets some oil on his face, and then he's like, “Ha ha ha!” And the music- [laughs] the lyrics are so funny, like, it's “Town to town, two lane roads, family business, two hunting bros.” [C: Real.] And then “Living a lie just to get by,” [C laughs] which is like, okay, call them out, I suppose. [C: Yeah.] Oh, there's also sports this episode. I mean, later, there's a whole basketball bit, which I absolutely did love 100%. [C laughs] But here they're playing football, the American one. And yeah, fun stuff. I truly love that they play basketball this episode, even if it's this corny-ass not-basketball basketball. [C: So true.]

C: We move to another genre. There's a song playing that is quiet, and emo, but not emo the genre, just emo the feeling.

G: What is this genre? It's like easy listening, adult alternative pop.

C: Anya Marina is the artist, and her genres are indie rock, indie pop, and alternative rock. [G: Wow! I'm right.] Yeah, and they chose her because her music has been on Grey’s Anatomy before. This is- we get a Wellington, Ohio, “two days earlier” thing. And what's happening is a Dr. Sexy, M.D. episode. And there's a man and a woman who enter an elevator and start making out nasty-style, and [G: A leg is thrown up and everything.] Yes, a leg is thrown up and everything.

G: And Dean is just religiously watching this!

C: And yeah, Dean is- he's wearing a full suit, and he's sitting at the edge of his bed, leaning all the way forward, just staring at this, so. [G: He’s so into it.] Yeah. Good for him.

G: I mean, I think, honestly, solemnly, this is our first like, “Dean is attracted to men episode.” Do you know what I mean?

C: Oh! Yeah, I mean, yeah, it’s literally Dr. Sexy, M.D.

G: There was stuff before, obviously, Season 1, 2, 4. But this is the first one where it's like, there is no other way to interpret this, I believe. Like the stuff later. [C: Yeah.] I don’t know. Kind of crazy. Sometimes I forget that Dean Winchester is bisexual.

C: Yeah. What makes Dr. Sexy sexy is the fact that he wears cowboy boots, so.

G: He's kind of crazy for that. [laughs]

C: [laughs] Yeah.

G: Well, whatever.

C: I- there's no accounting for taste. Bi people are allowed to have bad taste, I suppose. Even if they're Dean Winchester.

G: Especially if they are.

C: Hm, I don't know about that one. [G laughs] You know what, yes, because it means that he'll go after people who less people are going after, I suppose, so that he can leave the better pickings to the more deserving. But anyway, so.

G: I cannot believe that Cas is in love with Dean Winchester. [C laughs] That is so unfair to everyone else in the world.

C: It really is! [G laughs] And it's just because he met him first. Like, it could have been anyone.

G: [laughs] Could’ve been me. Could’ve been you. Could have been Sam, could have been Bobby. [C: Literally could’ve been Bobby.] And maybe it is Bobby, who knows?

C: Yeah, who knows? Sam comes in and asks Dean what he's watching, and Dean says it's Dr. Sexy, M.D. And referencing “Monster At The End of this Book,” he says that it's based off of a book, and then Sam says, “When did you hit menopause,” which is quite rude. But this is what the two of them do, I suppose, and Dean, I think, started it in their childhood. But yeah. Sad. Does this cycle ever get broken?

G: I think there will be less “Haha! You're gay” jokes in the future. [C laughs] So that’s probably a good thing.

C: Yeah, because it’s less societally acceptable to put it on TV.

G: Yeah. And also it becomes too real. Like, maybe Dean is gay, so. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. Do you- I feel like the “Haha you’re gay” jokes for Sam extend longer, though.

G: Veganism. Yeah, it’s true.

C: Interesting. Dean goes like, “Oh, I was channel surfing, I'm not a fan. I don't even know this show,” and then they go to the police station as FBI people because someone named Bill Randolph died from his head getting ripped off.

G: I don’t think I’ve ever said it in the podcast before, but they truly put on an FBI voice, and it is hilarious to listen to every single time. When the officer’s like, “Well, what else could it be? Blah blah blah,” And then Sam's like [deep voice] “How sure are you that it was a bear?” And it's like, okay, go, Sam. It's so goofy!

C: And it wasn't a bear, because Bruce Banner has not any hair on his body.

G: This is so sad.

C: So sad. But yeah, basically, the cops think it's a bear, but whatever it was chased the guy through the woods and followed him all the way to his bedroom to kill him. They decide to interview this man's wife, who saw the whole thing, and basically, the interview goes by pretty fast. She's just like, “Whatever I saw, it was crazy, it had to be a bear,” and eventually, Sam and Dean convince her to tell them what she saw, which was the Incredible Hulk, the version from the TV.

G: I've never watched this.

C: Yeah, me, neither.

G: Are we too young or am I too foreign? I’m not sure.

C: I watched one of the, I think- I don't know. Let me look up this Lou Ferrigno.

G: I think for me, it’s that I'm not American. That's why I've not watched it.

C: The show went from 1978 to 1982.

G: Oh, well, it is because we're too young. We're babies.

C: Yeah. Dean asks, “Would there be any reason that the Incredible Hulk would have a grudge against your husband?” [both laughing]

G: And even the wife was like, “What the fuck is wrong with you?”

C: Yeah. [laughs] And that's the scene. [G: Wonderful.]

G: In a motel, Dean's doing his research. Sam comes in, and it is reminiscent of the sitcom scene, but this is serious stuff. And what it is is Sam visited the place, and there's an 8-foot-wide hole at the front door that is Hulk-sized. And also Dean has found out that the guy who died has some anger management issues, so yeah.

C: Yeah, I mean, he has a court record of beating his wife. It's quite bad. [G: Yeah.] And they treat it very blasély, they're just like, “Oh my God, he's such a hothead, just like the Hulk.” Like, no! [laughs] Not like the Hulk, what?

G: It was a bit surprising to have this be here and be like, "Whatever." Because we just met his wife. Like, we literally just saw his wife. [C: We literally just talked to her!] We literally just talked to her! Sam goes, “So a hothead getting killed by TV's greatest hothead. Kind of sounds like just desserts, doesn't it?” And he thinks he's so funny. He thinks he's so funny! And he goes, “It’s starting to make sense.”

C: I mean, doesn't Gabriel say that phrase in an earlier episode? [G: Just desserts?] Yeah, I thought so. But maybe I'm wrong.

G: I'm not sure if he says “just desserts.” But I think this is Sam trying to be like, “Ha! Just desserts, just like the Trickster because he likes sweets.” He’s so corny.

C: Yeah. Is Sam the one who brings up that it might be a Trickster in “I Believe The Children Are Our Future?”

G: Yeah, Gabriel is in his head. You know what?

C: Sabriel is real, maybe.

G: [laughs] It’s kind of real. Sabriel is kinda real.

C: Yeah, I believe it. I get it. [G: I kinda believe it. Literally.] Oh, “just desserts” is a phrase said in “Mystery Spot.” [G: Yeah. By who? By who?] Dean says it.

G: Wow. Stealing jokes. [C laughs] That’s so bad, Sam. You need to have integrity.

C: Yeah, don’t you care about your future stand-up future? Your career’s in jeopardy! Your reputation!

G: What will people say? What will people say? Exactly. Sam reveals that he saw some candy wrappers on the scene, so the Trickster must be here. And yeah.

C: Dean says, [laughs] “I've wanted to gank that mother since 'Mystery Spot.'” An incredibly funny sentence. Every time Supernatural won’t-

G: Such a Dean Winchester sentence.

C: That is what Danica said. She paused at this point. She was like, “That is a quintessential Dean Winchester sentence.” [G: Literally.] I love when Supernatural can't say “motherfucker,” and instead of just putting a new word, they're like, “No, we have to say ‘motherfucker,’ but censored.” Like, no, you don't.

G: Dean is like, “Yeah, we're gonna kill the guy.” And Sam is like, “Um, are we? [laughs] Are we gonna kill the guy? Maybe we shouldn't kill the guy.” But Sam's argument is that since this guy's kind of a party, “whatever, let's all have fun and have some games,” maybe he wouldn't like that the Apocalypse is happening, and maybe he would want to stop it, so maybe they could ask for help. And Dean is against this because he thinks the Trickster is a horrible, horrible guy, but Sam's like, “Well, it's the Apocalypse. We can't be choosy.”

C: Yeah, he says, “We don't have the luxury of a moral stand.” Bold words from, “We're the good guys. We don't kill children” two episodes ago. [G: Literally.] I mean, I stand with him for both of the decisions that he's made in these two episodes, but Sam is- he's being very back-and-forth about this, I feel like.

G: They wait until they hear a good case happening in the police radio. And eventually, they do while Dean is sharpening this fucking stake, so we know that they're preparing to kill the guy. The report is in a warehouse. So they head there, but when they get there, it's empty. No police cars, no anything. And they still go in! No part of them is like, “Maybe this is a trick.” They DGAF.

C: Yeah, you're going after the Trickster, you guys, come on.

G: “What if this is a trick?" "Nah, the Trickster definitely won't trick us.” Dude, come on. [C laughs] But they enter the building, and when they enter, they are in Dr. Sexy, M.D. Land.

C: When they're inside, there's, like, two doctors that pass them, and the transcript specifies that one of them is Asian, and I guess that's 'cause, like, that's the Sandra Oh character stand-in? [G: Yeah, I suppose.] I suppose so. I think that the the Doctor Wang of this episode is fine-ish. I mean, both of the doctors pass by Sam and Dean, and they both go, "Doctor" kind of flirty at them, but I feel like Dr. Wang is aimed more at Sam, so like, [G laughs] I guess it's not part of the the Dean pattern, at least. [laughs]

G: It is sad that G: this is how Supernatural starts its footing with Asian women because now, like, every single time there would be an Asian woman, like, going forward, it will be, like, at the forefront of your brain, you know? And that's not, like, an enjoyable way to do anything. Of like-

C: Yeah. Wait, was the was the first Asian woman that we saw on screen, like, via Busty Asian Beauties? Like, was there an Asian woman in Supernatural before “Tall Tales”?

G: I think the one where they're like, “Oh, you're the maid?”

C: Yes, the maid, and wait- That was in “Crossroad Blues,” so that was which episode? That was 2.08. So that was like- and then "Tall Tales" was 2.15. So yeah, we got a maid, and then we got pornmag cover. Lovely.

G: Yeah, it is not fun for anyone to- Like, every time you see an Asian woman in Supernatural to be like, "Oh, are they gonna do a racism thing?"

C: To be tensing up, yeah.

G: Yeah, yeah. But because of the way Supernatural is and has been, that is your immediate reaction, which is not fun.

C: Mm-hm. Would be nice if characters appeared and you didn't immediately start turning your racism detector on. [G: Exactly.] Sad!

They're in like, lab coats and all of that. And then Dean opens a closet, and there's a man and a woman making out, and he realizes that, like, one of the doctors here is Dr. Piccolo from Dr. Sexy, M.D. or whatever. But she goes up to Sam, and then she [both] slaps him in the face. And she goes, "Seriously. You're brilliant, you know that? And a coward. [both] You're a brilliant coward." [G: So true.] And Sam’s like, “What is happening?” and she slaps him again and goes, “As if you don't know!” and just goes off. And Dean's looking at her, and he's like, “Hoooly shit. That's Dr. Piccolo! She's the sexy yet earnest doctor at Seattle Mercy Hospital. We're in Dr. Sexy, M.D.”

G: We are. [C: Good for them.] And then he starts pointing at random doctors and being like, "That's the sexy but blah blah blah doctor."

C: Yeah. He does say that a lot.

G: Yeah, he is a big fan.

C: He is a big fan. Yeah. I mean, we know he's a House watcher because he references it [G: Yeah.], so yeah. So yeah, I guess he he could just be-

G: A medical drama watcher.

C: Yeah. Later, he says he hates, like, procedural cop dramas, but he likes procedural medical dramas, which I feel like are not that dissimilar. But I guess the medical ones are a bit more focused on interpersonal drama between the doctors than the cop ones.

Sam and Dean are talking about what potential reasons for them being trapped here is. And Sam says, "I think the Trickster trapped us in TV land," and Dean says, "That's a stupid theory."

G: It's literally not!

C: It's like, the most reasonable theory ever. I don't get it. What does Dean think is happening? And I guess part of it is just that Dean is not aware that the Trickster can put them in situations like this, because he only knows him from "Tall Tales" 'cause Sam didn't tell him about "Mystery Spot."

G: I am surprised that they didn't use this to be like, "He's an angel," because only angels have done this to them prior. [C: Yeah.] I think "It's a Terrible Life-" No, "It's a Terrible Life" is not this logic. But "The End" is kind of. And, I mean, "It's a Terrible Life" can fall under manipulation of reality or time, especially when Cas shows up, and it's like, "You've been missing for days." I don't know. But yeah, I mean, the logic that they use being like, "He knows Cas, I think!" is pretty funny as well. [C laughs]

C: It is, yeah. Like, "I know that Cas doesn't have friends. This has to be a family member." [both laugh] [G: Literally.] I guess it is weird that 'cause, like, canonically, Dean never told Sam about "The End," and Sam never tell told Dean about "Mystery Spot," and that never comes up as a point of conflict this episode, and I feel like there is a lot of potential for that to come back up again, but like, I don't know. They dropped the ball on a lot of potential juicy character/plot things this episode in lieu of being funny, so whatever. It's fine.

G: They had a different intentionality.

C: Yeah. And the person who made the "Then" sequence thought that we were doing family drama, but they were wrong.

Dean is like, "No, this is, like, real 'cause there aren't, like, lights and crew members around." And then, as you said, he starts pointing people out. Dr. Wang is a sexy but arrogant heart surgeon. There's a guy who's like, a ghost in the mind of a sexy yet neurotic doctor, blah blah blah. And then they do the first of their meta jokes, which is that Sam goes, "This show has ghosts? Why?" And Dean goes, "I don't know. It's compelling." And then, you know, he's having his fanboy moment, and then he has his real fanboy moment where he sees something in the distance, and just freezes.

G: He goes, "[gasp]."

C: He gasps. He goes- Like, it's like, he's barely breathing. He's like, trembling a little. He goes, "Oh, boy. It's him. It's him, it's Dr. Sexy."

G: I cannot think of a fictional character I would have this kind of reaction with.

C: Yeah, like, this is like, IRL David Tennant and then no one else.

G: Yeah. That's the only one. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. God, that's embarrassing. [laughs]

G: I don't think David Tennant plays any character that will make me go like this for the character. But-

C: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, 'cause like, I mean, there's blorbos. But like, you don't act like this about blorbos. This is idol status for a character, and I don't think there's any character that I admire. If I like a character, it's because I want to see them with blood on their face and crying.

G: Yeah. I mean, there are certain academics that I would probably feel this way about, honestly. [both laugh] Later on, we do see, like, a quote "character" that Dean also acts this way with, which is uh, Lawless Gunner? Gunless Lawyer? I have no-

C: Oh, that- Lawless Gunner? Gunner Lawless? [both laugh]

G: I think it's Gunner Lawless, yeah. So yeah, I think he just acts like this with his idols. It is such a weird thing to make a fictional character your idol in this way, but sure, go ahead, I suppose.

C: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's an idol thing. I think he just [G: He's just bisexual?] wants to fuck this guy really bad. Yeah like, David Tennant isn't my idol. I just want to fuck that guy really bad. [G laughs]

G: I hope to god neither of us meet David Tennant [C laughs] because I personally do not trust myself to be a normal person.

C: I mean, I would leave. I would leave. He deserves to live his life unimpeded by the likes of me. I would leave the room.

G: I think I would just collapse and die. [C laughig] Like, I don't even give a shit about him. I think I'll just drop dead.

C: [laughing] God, it is so embarrassing. Whatever. Whatever. Everyone wants to fuck David Tennant. It's fine [G: Does everyone?] to wanna fuck someone that everybody wants to fuck. Like, I find it more embarrassing because everyone wants to fuck him. [G: Yeah, it's so basic.] I need, like, boutique people I want to fuck. But yeah. [laughs] Anyway, Dean just wants to fuck this guy really bad. So he comes up to them. Dr. Sexy comes up to them. It's just crazy how, like, his name is Dr. Sexy and they have Dean react this way. And like, they really don't make a lot of jokes about it. Like, they make jokes about him being into the show, but not at this interaction.

G: Not that he's attracted to this guy.

C: Yeah, so, like, it, it really does feel- Like you said, this is, like, the first "Dean is attracted to men" moment, and like, yeah, the fact that they don't make fun of this.

G: Yeah, it's undeniable, yeah.

C: Yeah, it's like, it's interesting. I think it's because just the idea of Dean being bi is like, so far from their minds that, like-

G: From the writer's minds, yeah.

C: 'Cause if they were like, "People are thinking that Dean is bi and are asking about Destiel at cons," they would, like, definitely put a joke in. But like, due to how there isn't- that isn't on their minds, and there isn't a joke, then it feels realer, so congratulations on Dean's bisexuality.

G: Yeah, but like, later on, I mean Gunner Lawless, again, like, Destiel was already a thing when that was happening. In Season 8 with Aaron, like, Destiel was already happening, and they still did all that. Or, at that point, is it queerbaiting, fully, then?

C: [laughs] I think by that point it was queerbaiting. Yeah, probably.

G: Here, I mean, maybe it's not on their mind yet, and that's why it's just this earnest, I believe. It's crazy. That guy's bisexual. Who would have thunk?

C: Like, what was Jensen "Homophobic" Ackles, like, what was he channeling here?

G: What was he thinking? What was he channeling here?

C: What was he going off of here?

G: [laughing] Let's not do this.

C: [laughing] I'm not try- He was thinking about Eric Kripke. Alright, the end, moving on. [both laugh] So- Yeah, that was a joke. Everyone knows that that was a joke, but I really do need to clarify [G laughs] that I'm not a Kripkackles truther.

G: Or are you?

C: Or am I? I'm not. [G laughs] So Dean, he's like, you know, just so in awe of this guy that he wants to fuck. And Dr. Sexy, he goes, "Doctor." and Dean goes, "Doctor." And he's, like, trying to hide his smile. [G: Bashful, yeah.] Yeah. Dean has to elbow Sam to get him to go, "Doctor." And Dr. Sexy says, like, you know, one of those lines. "You want to give me one good reason why you did defied my direct order to do the experimental face transplat on Mrs. Beale?" [both laugh] [G: Iconic.] And Dean's like, "Uh, bleurgh?" And he looks down, and then he notices Dr. Sexy is wearing white tennis shoes. And then he fucking slams Dr. Sexy against the wall in, like, the same move that he does to Cas in Season 12, right?

G: Oh, yeah, you're right! When he finds him hiding in the motel after his truck broke down. [both laugh] [C: God.] [laughing] And he's looking up "how to fix truck"! [C laughing] Cas is so gay!

C: He is so special to me.

G: Cas is so iconic.

C: Yeah. So Dean goes, "You're not Dr. Sexy. Because I swore, part of what makes Dr. Sexy sexy is the fact that he wears cowboy boots, not tennis shoes." And there is a joke that's, like, Sam going, "Oh, yeah, you're not a fan," but it isn't about how Dean clearly wants to fuck this guy. Dean's like, "I know who you are," homophobic dog-style, and then everything freezes, and Dr. Sexy turns into Gabriel. He's like, "Tee-hee! I'm having so much fun." I guess they lost their wooden stakes on their way in? Or no, they still have them.

G: No, it gets taken. No, they don't! Like, later, they picked it up in the grassy area. That's how they got it.

C: Okay, got it. Yeah, so their wooden stakes got taken. [laughs] Sam goes, "That was you on the police scanner. This is a trick!" And he goes, "Hello! Trickster!"

G: Which is what we have been saying all along.

C: Just like a joke we made in BABPod. I can't believe that Gabriel, just like Sam, is a joke stealer, but I guess that's why they're perfect for each other. [G: Literally.] And he says, like, "I just heard you guys were in town, so I wanted to trick you guys, like, for fun. And I made this whole world just to to have said fun." And he won't tell them how to get out, and Sam starts saying like, "Hey, like, we need your help," but Gabriel is just like, "You guys broke the world, and you want me to sweep up your mess? Well, meh. You can talk to me if you survive the next 24 hours of this game," and he won't tell them anything else, and then he disappears.

G: So Sam and Dean are just like, "What the fuck?" now. They're walking around. Dr. Piccolo comes in again and tries to slap Sam again, but he's like, "Lady!" which is [C laughs]- I really do hate the use of the word "lady" [C: Yeah.] when it's, like, referring to someone directly. [C: Yeah, same.] Yeah, like, I say "lady" when it's like, "Oh, there's a lady who blah blah blah." But when it's, like, you're calling someone, and you, instead of saying "miss," or whatever, "ma'am." [C: It feels demeaning, yeah.] You say "lady," like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Although I suppose there was a time when "lady" was like, "sir," right?

C: No, "ma'am" was like "sir." [laughs]

G: Really?

C: Oh, you mean the title?

G: Yeah. Like "Lady Beatrice." [laughs]

C: Yes. That's true. But I don't think that's what Sam is going off of.

G: Absolutely not. But yeah, like, she starts doing the "brilliant, brilliant, but a coward!" speech again. Yeah, and she eventually does the speech where, after Sam goes, "I'm not a doctor," she goes, "[gasps] Don't say that! You are the finest to cerebrovascular neurosurgeon I've ever met!" And yeah.

C: "And I have met plenty! So that girl died on her table. It wasn't your fault! It wasn't anybody's fault! [both] Some people just die!" [both laugh]

G: Very iconic. I mean, were they trying to do something here with like, Sam's guilt over everything?

C: Huh. I don't think so.

G: I mean, for a while, when she was like, “So that girl died on your table. It wasn't your fault.” I was thinking about it like, "Huh, maybe that's related." And then when she goes, “Sometimes people just die!” And I'm like, "Well."

C: No, they're just making fun of hospital dramas, yeah.

G: Yeah. And Sam DGAF. And she's like, “You're afraid. You're afraid to operate again, and you're afraid to love.” And then she leaves. [C laughs] And as they move on, Dean gets called by the husband of the patient who needs a face transplant, [C laughs] and Dean is like, “Look, none of this is real. Your wife isn't real. She doesn't need anything from me. She's not gonna get a face surgery.” And as they walk away, the guy pulls out a gun and shoots him. [both] Just like in House M.D.

C: - which no one should watch! [both laugh]

G: Exactly! And then, Dean collapses on the floor. It's real. He really is shot with a gunshot wound, which is extra fascinating, because it's not like he shows any sign of it afterwards. [C: It's true.] But yeah, so Sam is calling for doctors, etc, except there's no doctors. Eventually, they end up in an operating room where Sam is operating on Dean, and he's just pressing on the wound, [laughs] and then somebody gives him a scalpel, and he just nods "no" and smiles. Iconic. And everyone's confused, doesn't know what's happening. And eventually, Dean’s like, “Sam, just do anything!” And Sam calls for a pen knife, some dental floss, a sewing needle, and a fifth of whiskey. Why?

C: A fifth of whiskey! You're in a hospital! You can just get anesthetic!

G: You're literally in the hospital! Literally- Wait, what is the whiskey for? I thought it was an alcohol. Or it's like, for Dean to drink.

C: I'm not sure. It's either for Dean to drink or for cleaning the wound, both of which is, [G: Either way.] you can get like, real antiseptics and real anesthetic.

G: Exactly. But eventually, it's great. Everything's great. By the way, Dean is awake this entire time, and he's face-down on a spa chair situation, and he's looking at these blue tiles, which is a fun transition shot. But like, we see Dr. Piccolo on the window going, "Sam, you're so wonderful!" blah blah blah. As Dean looks at the floor, and everybody moves away, so it's just the blue tiles- And then suddenly he hears, like, some clapping and some cheering, and then the tiles become doors, and they slide open.

C: And now we're- Well. [laughs] We are at a Japanese game show, and [laughs] wow! Supernatural sure is a TV show that hates Asian people. There's like, a stage. I don't know. Everything's painted red. Everything's very high-energy. And there's a host and two women on stage, and the two women are both wearing skimpy devil outfits. And they're just two more Asian women this episode in bikinis for, like, fanservice or whatever reasons.

G: The thing is, I'm Filipino, right? I'm not Japanese. I'm not that familiar with Japanese TV. But Filipino game shows, a lot of them do feature women dressed like this. And they do the ads, they do the giving the prizes away, etc. [C: Yeah.] And like, that's part of the look. That's part of the look of a lot of these shows that you will just have women dressed like this. Of course, there's misogyny in the Philippine entertainment industry, and [laughs], I mean, pretty much all entertainment industries in the world. [C: Yes.] I would say the implication of it is different when it's in an American show. [C: Yes.] Or is it? I don't know. I don't know. Because like, the thing about this bit, specifically, like, the Japanese game show, it's like, yeah, Japanese game shows do look like this sometimes, but there is a layer to it when you are portraying it in a show as racist as Supernatural. [C: Yeah.] Blah blah blah.

C: Like, part of the humor is like-

G: The othering.

C: - "Isn't it so crazy that these 'people' - in quotation marks - [laughs] are like this?"

G: Exactly. And what I want to say here is that, what you said, the "quote 'people'" part of it is like, whenever you watch something, and it's like, "Oh, it's from a wacky- It's a wacky thing from a wacky place," I want you to think about the fact that those are made by people, they're for people, they exist in a culture made up of people. We're people. Like, people who are not from the United States, I'm a human being. [C: That's true.] And I- I don't know. [C: Yeah.] Maybe I'm too sensitive about this. [C: No.] But like, when I did watch this, my immediate thought was like, "Oh yeah, like, there is a conception of the foreign as 'Oh, so weird and so eccentric and so blah blah blah!'" It is- As someone who exists in a global society, I do think frequently about how people perceive me. In this podcast too, because a lot of our listeners are from Western countries, from- [laughs] what's that one country that we got a lot of listens from? I forgot.

C: Oh, was it like, Denmark or something?

G: Denmark. [laughs] Yeah. [laughing] So our main listener base is from the United States-

C: [laughing] "I know a lot of our listeners are from Denmark."

G: - [laughing] and Denmark. But like, I just want to tell everyone- And, I mean, it's something I think about, right, that like, "Oh, I wonder how people perceive me," especially when I'm telling stories that are like, very Filipino-centric or very based on my experience, etc. Like, I wonder how I'm perceived or those stories are perceived. Is it like, so weird? It is a consideration that I think about, and therefore, I have that at the back of my head watching this bit, also. [C: Yeah.] So I- yeah. That's my perspective. It is- It sucks to think about. I mean, obviously, Supernatural is foreign media to me. It's just how it is. But even here in the podcast, right? Like, it's my podcast. It's our podcast. [C: Yeah.] And I still think of myself as "the foreigner" here. [C: Aw.] And, I don't know. You get what I mean, right? [C: Yeah.] Because our audience is predominantly not Filipino, but it's fine. Yeah. So [laughs] those are the thoughts that this scene brought up for me.

C: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. The host is a Japanese man, and he alternates between speaking Japanese, specifically as like a "Oh, it's so confusing for Sam and Dean!" and speaking English in an accent as a "Isn't it so funny how the r's and l's get mixed up when he talks?" So yeah. And like- Okay, like, people do talk like this. Like, that is the case. But like, it is very clear that it is part of the humor of this section that he talks like this.

G: It is that bit with the woman from El Salvador all over again.

C: Yeah, and it feels especially egregious because this follows "The Curious Case of Dean Winchester" when there is a character who also has an accent, Patrick, who has an Irish accent, and like, I don't know. Just, thinking back on the episode, it's like, crazy how like, they mention his accent once as, like, a way to identify him. And then, like, [laughs] they don't even make a St. Patrick's Day joke. [G laughing] Like, they don't do anything about him being Irish, like, as a joke during the episode at all because [both laugh] this is a form of foreignness that, like, is like, acceptable in Supernatural, that's still in the people-without-quotation-marks, you know, like, part of Supernatural. And [both laughing] I don't think that they should have been making Irish jokes. [laughing]

G: Dean should have done like, a fucking Irish accent, just for equality.

C: [laughing] I don't think "The Winchesters hate the Irish" should be a thing-

G: Let's just make more oppressed groups in Supernatural. Let's just do it.

C: [laughing] Literally. Like, let's bring back hibernophobia.

G: [laughing] That's so horrible!

C: But yeah, it just is very- They wouldn't let that woman be El Salvadorian without her saying "Abraham Lincoln killed Mr. Hill!" in her accent as a joke, and without Dean saying, like, "muchos locos," and they won't let this guy be Japanese except in the way where the entire joke is that he's Japanese. But like, Patrick could just be existing, and yeah. [laughs] We should have brought back hibernophobia. [both laughing] That's my conclusion. But anyway, so, okay- I guess, okay. [laughs] At this point in the episode while Danica and I were watching, we paused it, and we went on like, an hour-long thing where we just like, looked up the actor for the game show host. [laughing] Like, we were going through his Twitter, we were going through like, "Oh, congrats to his son for getting recruited for football for college!" But anyway, so I guess the relevant things here: The actor, his name is Hiro Kanagawa. He was born in Japan, but he spent his childhood in Canada and Michigan. He went to an international high school in Japan. But like, I guess, you know, the conclusion is that like, he is putting on the accent, especially because we then skimmed a 50-minute video [both laugh] of a con, a Supernatural con that he was at. [G: And he was there?] Yes, it was a Supernatural con from 2022 [G: That's crazy!] that he was on for being in an episode from 2009 for less than three minutes, I would say. And he was on it with Steve Bacic, who plays Dr. Sexy.

C: What the fuck are they still doing with Supernatural conventions?

C: I know. I know! And like, there were people there. Like, they were asking questions. Like, who paid for this? [both laughing]

G: What the hell? Well, it's one of the more beloved episodes of Supernatural.

C: It is one of the more beloved episodes of Supernatural. So I think a few- a few highlights of that. Steve Basic was trying to do like, a homoerotic thing with him because they had absolutely nothing to talk about, and it was really awkward 'cause like, while they were doing it, they were sitting faced away from each other. But anyway, that's not actually relevant.

G: What? [laughing]

C: It was very interesting to watch. But- [laughing] Okay.

G: This is all a reveal to me, by the way. I've not heard any of this before. [both laughing]

C: Yeah, no. So- I guess, okay, two things. So someone asked him about how realistic this is, and he says that it is pretty realistic for a Japanese game show, which is sort of what you were saying earlier. [G: Yeah.] And like, he's on a Supernatural con. He's not gonna be saying that the writing was racist or anything. [laughs] And I don't know what he believes about the episode, but I do know what I believe. And it became this really weird thing where he was like, "Oh, but some of my Japanese friends were telling me that like, I wasn't being crazy enough, and I should have been making it crazier. Hou know, like, Japanese people, like, everyone thinks we're so reserved and quiet [G: Oh, yeah.] but a little bit of crazy in all of us [G laughs], and every Japanese person you meet, there's just a little bit of crazy, and it'll just come out." [G laughs] And like, it was so uncomfortable to watch 'cause it just felt very much like he was, like, pandering to a white audience in, like, some way. But like, I don't know. Maybe this is your truth, Hiro Kanagawa.

G: There was- There was this Tweet once that was like- It was comparing Japanese content creators on YouTube. They would have channels that are subtitled in English, so it's for an English-speaking audience, and then they would have the same videos, pretty much, on a separate channel for a Japanese audience. And the difference in like, editing style and everything was so massive. [C: Oh, interesting.] Because there is a conception of Japanese YouTube content being like, peaceful and nice and blah blah blah, quiet. [C: #Zen?] Yeah for your Western audience. Versus, like, zany and wacky for their Japanese audience. So I think I can perceive what he's trying to get that in there, [C: Yeah.] that like, how it is is they like their entertainment perhaps zanier than that.

C: Yeah, yeah. And then, right, he was asked a little bit about the audition, and I think the main thing that I remember is that all of the lines were written in English, and they were just like, "If you could just, like, translate them [G: That's crazy!] on the spot or like, ad-lib something, can you do that?" And like, I guess it makes sense if they don't have a translator on the team because you're asking people to audition who can speak Japanese. But like, is this common practice? Someone in showbiz, let us know.

G: Yeah. It's kinda crazy.

C: Yeah. But anyway, this guy has a pretty good career. He's been on- He's been on a Star Trek. He adapted a play that was award-winning and stuff. I'm happy for him. But yeah, anyway. So that was, that was an hour or more of my life [laughs], which is maybe why I didn't think this episode was that funny because I took a break for an hour to just stalk this one guy.

G: I believe they did that in a convention. [laughs] I'm still stuck on it.

C: Just inviting him to said convention?

G: No, what you were saying about the other guy trying to do a something. People do anything for entertainment. [C laughs]

C: They really, really will. It was so uncomfortable because Hiro Kanagawa was just not really into it, [G laughs] but yeah. Anyway. Anyway.

The game show is called Nutcracker. Sam and Dean are both at a podium, and there's this pole with a ball at the end of it, like, sticking out, like, about crotch-level in front of them. And the host asks Sam in Japanese, "What was the name of the demon you chose over your own brother?" [G laughs] And since it's in Japanese, Sam doesn't understand. If Bobby was here, he would have rocked this shit. [G: Literally.] Sam can't answer the question, and the timer hits 0. And the answer is "Ruby." Then, Sam's punishment is that the pole whacks Sam in the nuts, and he is in a lot of pain.

G: They do the typical- you know at the end of K-dramas- [C: The replay?] Yeah, [laughs] the replay from different angles. Truly iconic.

C: One of the women in the devil costumes does, like, a shrimp chip advertisement. And then Cas shows up! [G: It's crazy!] The doors open, and it's Cas! He looks so good.

G: And the audience is like, "Woo! Woo!"

C: Yeah, they're just like me for real. Yeah.

G: Later on, when he comes in, the audience "woo"s again, but they see that he is beaten up, and they go, "Ough!" And I'm like, "You do not understand me at all." [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] I would have cheered louder. [C laughs]

C: So Cas goes, "It's me. What are you doing here?" And Dean is like, "What are you doing here?" And apparently, he's been looking for them because they've been missing for days. Who- Like, he can't track them. Was he just looking for them for something else and they didn't show up, or did Bobby call him or something? I think Cobby real.

G: I think he is tracking them.

C: But like, how without the- with the rib stuff?

G: Yeah, with the rib stuff. Maybe Cobby is real and that's why.

C: Yeah, I think Cobby is real. And he's about to get them out by doing the forehead touch thing, but then he disappears! Like, he statics out.

G: Yeah. And the host says, [both] "Mr. Trickster does not like pretty boy angels." So true! And we get a reaction shot of Dean's face considering this. [C laughs]

C: And then he asks Dean a question that is another being mean to Sam question. [G: Yeah!] Yeah, I don't get it. I guess- I don't know. Gabriel- what is- I guess Gabriel's mad at Sam.

G: Has a psychosexual obsession, yeah.

C: Yeah, there's a psychosexual obsession on top of him being upset that Sam seems more responsible for causing the Apocalypse.

G: To be fair, later, when he was like, "You caused the Apocalypse," he was referring to the both of them, [C: That's true.] and I was like, "Finally, someone who is exhibiting equality."

C: I mean, Cas also said, "You and your brother-"

G: "- destroyed"- This is true. But I think he was trying to be gay when he was doing that. [C laughs]

C: Sure. People have mostly been blaming both of them, I think. [G: Yeah.] The question is, "Would your mother and father still be alive if your brother was never born."

G: [laughs] Crazy question.

C: Yeah like, probably not. Probably something else would have just happened, you know?

G: Yeah, like, maybe John would have been killed at a softball game.

C: John's Jenny is coming after him. [laughs] Yeah. He would have been killed at a softball game. I mean, he literally does die of a stroke in like, "What Is and What Should Never Be," so yeah.

G: [laughs] In a softball game.

C: Yeah, exactly. The question's in Japanese. Dean doesn't understand. He's freaking out. It's so unfair that he doesn't get hit in the nuts, like, if anyone in the world deserves to get hit in the nuts, it is Dean Winchester. But Sam realizes that "Oh, the way to get out of this is to play the role that Trickster wants us to play. So, Dean just like, ad-lib Japanese or whatever." And then he tries, and he is able to say in Japanese, "The answer is... yes?" And apparently, he won the entire game by having one correct answer. And they're relieved but are also like, "Well, how long do we have to play our roles?" Gabriel literally said 24 hours. That's what he said earlier.

G: Yeah, but Cas did come in and was like, "You've been missing for days," so.

C: But I think it hasn't been 24 hours within like, [G: Okay.] the passage of time that Sam and Dean are experiencing. Oh, right, I forgot one more thing. While I was looking through Hiro Kanagawa’s IMDb, back in 1998, on the Honey, I Shrunk the Kids! TV show, he also played a role called "Japanese game show host."

G: So this is fair.

C: Yeah. [laughs] This is a very old joke, I guess, was my main takeaway. That like, US shows have been making fun of Japanese game shows for like, 11 years by this point. But yeah. And he had to audition! Like, he had to audition the regular way. Steve Bacic just got called in. Like, this is his specialty!

G: For Dr. Sexy? [C: Yeah.] Wow, okay.

C: Yeah, even though both of them knew the director because they were both on Smallville before.

G: I think it's sinking into me just now that, like, it's such a massive production. You have to audition for every single role? That's crazy.

C: I mean, they call people for some. And then a lot of- the non-speaking roles, I guess, like, they go to an extras company, and they ask if you can spare a few people.

G: No, but like, imagine, you know, that girl who was brushing her hair and then scratches her head out. Like, she probably had to be like, do an audition or whatever. [C: That's true. How much did she even make?] And so did the kid in that episode. It's like, wow, that's so much work to- [laughs] Do you know that post that's like, "It truly is a matter of like-" "It truly is a testament to how hardworking humans are that people will just make bad TV shows." [both laugh] Yeah. Because it's so much work for something that's mid. That's like, how I feel about Supernatural.

C: No, yeah, agreed. Like, there are so many actors each episode, and like, someone had to watch, like, a hundred tapes and decide which person would deliver a line that was written badly for like, two seconds. And then they had to, like, fly over or whatever.

G: I think there is a matter of- like, Supernatural, I think I've said this before with like, Matt Cohen, that like, you get a role that people- Like, you're solved in the con department if you so desire. So there is that incentive for Supernatural. It has a very loyal fan base.

C: Right. Yeah, I mean, Hiro Kanagawa was at a con in 2022 for being Japanese game show host.

G: Yeah. And this was in 2009. I mean, good for you, I suppose. [C: Yeah.]

G: So where they end up is a fucking lakeside commercial. Well, there's a lady doing yoga by the lakeside, then an old man, and they're going, "I have genital herpes." "I have genital herpes." And then there's, like, a basketball court that's like- The filter is, like, very airy, very "ooh," very zen, ethereal, whatever. And it's Sam. [laughs] And he turns around, and he doesn't wanna do it, but Dean comes in and just pats him on the shoulder, and is like, "Hey, you said we should follow the fucking things, right?" So Sam goes, "I've got genital herpes," and it's an ad for-

C: Which is a lie! You have chlamydia, Sam! That's a different thing.

G: Literally. Literally. And they're also playing basketball in this scene, which is truly iconic, truly a wonder.

C: Yeah, I mean, I guess Sam's good at it just because he's tall.

G: They're not wearing fun basketball outfits. They're wearing like, sweatpants and a shirt. And it's like, what the fuck is this corny shit? Put on a jersey.

C: When people play basketball recreationally, they have jerseys?

G: Well, here, yeah. [C: Nice.] I mean, I'm assuming if it's in a colder place, you ought to have, like, pants, I think because it's colder. But yeah, here, you go out on the street, and it's like, somebody wearing a LeBron jersey.

C: That's so fun. Well. [G: It is!] Well, congrats to the sales of all of those sports teams.

G: And the rest of the bit is like, Sam being apprehensive to say shit like, "Now, I take twice daily Herpexia to reduce my chances of passing it on." Now, they're back to the fucking sitcom, and like, Sam leads the woman out of the room- in a bikini. He just lets her go out in a bikini.

C: Yeah, does she not- She has to have a shirt somewhere. [G: I understand-] I mean, maybe it's a beachfront house in the sitcom, so maybe a lot of people walk around in bikinis. I don't know.

G: It's like, kind of crazy that like- But, I mean to be fair, like, they're in TV land, so it could just be that they're in TV land.

C: Yeah. And also, he knows that these aren't, like, real people, like Gabriel created them. I guess Gabriel's canonically racist, then. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] But I guess if Gabriel created them, it's like, after she leaves the room, she will disappear into the ether, so it's fine.

G: Sam and Dean are like, trying to talk and trying to play the role of being funny but having a rough time. And Sam's like, "Oh, how long are we gonna be here? Are we gonna be here forever? We might die here!" And then the laugh track is like, "Hahahahaha!" And then the door opens, and it's Cas again! [C: Hi Cas!] And he has a little wound in his face. [C: Agh.] People are applauding, but they're like, "Oh, he has a wound on his face!" And Dean is like, weirdly concerned about Cas this entire episode.

C: Yeah, no, it was like- Like, maybe Destiel is real. Like, I'm coming back around to it.

G: Well, first of all, Destiel is real. But yeah. I don't know Because we were just- not "just." But we were watching that episode where, "Free to Be You and Me," and it's like, well, does he care? Does he not? What's happening? And now we're back to like, "he give a shit."

C: Yeah. It's so- I don't even get it. Like, why? [laughs]

G: Well, because love is real.

C: But they're not in love yet.

G: Yeah, they're not in love yet, but, I think- I mean, we did just get "buddy of mine" the other episode. So-

C: Yeah, I guess Cas keeps getting into dangerous situations or whatever.

G: No, what I mean is like, "buddy of mine" is also like, "Huh. Didn't think he thinks of Cas that way. But okay."

C: But, I mean, it's because the guy in "Nightshifter" was his best friend that he just let go. [laughs] Like, Dean attaches himself fast, I think, was our takeaway.

G: I'm trying to think of what has happened between "Free to Be You and Me" and now to warrant such a concern for Cas. [C: Yeah.] 'Cause like- Well, I guess "Free to Be You and Me" happened, and that is like, a bonding experience for them.

C: Yeah, I mean, maybe he felt soo bad after Cas disappeared when Dean said he wasn't funny that he was like, "I'm gonna be a better friend. [laughs] I am changing myself."

G: Exactly. [laughs] Literally just like me for real when I was like, "How are you, Crystal?" [both laughing] that one day.

C: [laughing] And I said, "Why did you ask me that?" [both laugh]

G: Well, I mean, I don't know. I think Season 5 will have varying degrees of Cas and Dean-

C: Oh, it's "The End" that does it, right? 'Cause Dean's very fond in the "Don't ever change." and it's because he saw Endverse!Cas destroying himself and stuff.

G: Oh, you're right. You're absolutely right.

C: Aw.. Maybe love is kind of real! Huh!

G: So, yeah, okay, so he- I think it's maybe the realization that Cas's loyalty to him is like, something he shouldn't take for granted.

C: "Cas clearly cares about me, like, a lot. Like, he stuck with me in Endverse."

G: "He saved me from that thing," yeah.

C: "He isn't, like, invincible or whatever. Like, he lost all his powers and was miserable in Endverse because of me, so like, I'll be niceys."

G: I think Endverse is a reminder of how big of a sacrifice what he did in the end of Season 4 really was. [C: Yeah.] Like, that's not just nothing. That's a big sacrifice. It's throwing your whole life away. So yeah, okay, I get it. But it is so- That's sweet! Is Destiel real?

C: Yeah. Destiel might be real. [G: Yeah. You're dillydallying.] The jury's out, but it's leaning towards realness.

G: Yeah. Well, yeah, Cas comes in. He's concerned. And he's saying that "This trickster is much more powerful than a trickster should be. It's probably not a trickster." And then he gets flung into a wall, and Gabriel comes in. And he's like, "Hello!" And he turns to Cas, who now has duct-taped mouth. And he's like, "Hi, Castiel!" So, you know, they know each other. And Cas disappears. And yeah. Sam says, "You know him?" And Dean goes, "Where did you just send him?" which is truly a different sentence.

C: Yeah. Truly a Sabriel/Destiel win.

G: [laughing] Exactly! Iconic. And Dean gets mad at this, and he's asking like, what the fuck this is all for. Dean says, like, "We get it. We're supposed to play our roles. Blah blah blah." And the Trickster is like, "Yeah. Play your roles here, but also. play your roles out there. Sam starring as Lucifer. Dean starring as Michael." And yeah. Sam realizes here that they're not gonna be able to convince this guy because he wants the Apocalypse to happen. [C: Yeah.] And that's sad. And yeah, Sam goes like, "If we do that, the world will end!" And Gabriel looks at him and goes, "Yeah, whose fault is that?" but he's looking at the both of them at this point because like, "Who popped Lucifer out?"

C: I think he does blame Sam more, though. Like, Sam, got his nuts busted, and he has genital herpes [G: Yeah.], and both of the questions were about how Sam is to blame for terrible things in the world.

G: He's the one who turns into a car. Like, is that- The thing is, Sam, turning to a car is a punishment for him, and if he did it to Dean, that's not a punishment for Dean. [C laughing] So maybe he was just trying to be efficient in his choices.

C: That's true! And Dean is into cock and ball torture, so it wouldn't be a punishment for Dean.

G: [laughing] Exactly.

C: Yeah. He didn't specify how he wanted to get slapped around by that girl in the Zoro mask.

G: Could be any way. [C: Mm-hm.] Dean asks which side he's in. "Is it Heaven or Hell?" But Gabriel is saying, "I'm not on any!" But Dean is like, "Yeah, for sure? I'm sure [both] you're somebody's bitch." Yeah. And Gabriel gets mad at this.

C: Yeah, 'cause he's anti-misogyny, feminist king. [laughs]

G: Feminist king! He throws Dean against the wall, but not in Dr. Sexy/Dean way. Literally in a choking him up the wall way. The Trickster says, like, "Don't ever presume anything about me." And he's like, "Here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna suck it up, accept your responsibilities, and play the roles that destiny have chosen for you." Sam's like, "If we don't?" And Gabriel says, "Well, you'll be in TV land forever. 300 channels, and nothing is on!"

C: He really is Chuck's son.

G: You know, I do find this fascinating because, well, one, he's friends with Cas. [C: Yeah.] Like, they're family, but they're- they know each other. And Cas does not have this kind of relationship with any of the other archangels, which is fascinating.

C: Right. He and Raphael are not particularly close. They're just like frenemies/enemies.

G: Yeah. And like, it seems to me that Raphael and Cas did not particularly know each other or talk to each other prior to their enemy status. [C: Yeah.] Cas doesn't seem to know Michael at all as a person or an angel.

C: Yeah, and Lucifer is Lucifer.

G: Lucifer is Lucifah! [C laughs] I need specifically to stop saying "Lucifah" every single time, but it literally is.

C: It's fun, though.

G: Yeah, exactly. But no, especially later on, when we get to "The Man Who Would Be King," it is Gabriel who tells Cas like, "Don't step on that fish Castiel," right?

C: Wait. They don't say who said that.

G: Oh, I just assumed it was Gabriel. Okay.

C: I always thought it was Raphael for some reason. Raphael or Uriel, I think.

G: Yeah. But like, I don't know, like, the fact that Gabriel is more closer to the lower-ranking angels, such as Cas, is fun. And I think for Cas specifically, it's fun, because like, prior to all this, Cas is very loyal to the family unit, and even now, he is. Even now, he is looking for God. Like, that's his whole deal. [C: Yeah.] And it's the loyalty to the family unit vs the guy who left because he couldn't stand the infighting. I don't know. It's fascinating, I think, in terms of, like, defining what love means in terms of family situation, [G: Yeah.] and especially in family situations this disastrous and messy. Like, Gabriel's love manifests as like, "I don't want to have to be here and see this," and for Cas, it's like, "Let's fix it," I suppose? I don't know. I was thinking about that.

C: Yeah, "Let's fix it by bringing Dad back. I'm sure that he will fix it."

G: "- fixes everything." I mean, for everyone's context, I have been in my Season 11 feelings, which, if you know anything about Supernatural, that's the season Chuck comes back. And, I don't know. That's why I've been thinking a lot about the family dynamic, I suppose, as well. I truly do feel like watching Season 11 and watching the God reveal and everything simultaneously with Season 5 is like, "Oh, okay. That's a good format to watch those two."

C: Makes sense. So how long has Gabriel been away from Heaven, and like, hiding and being a trickster? Like, ever since "Tall Tales" at least, right?

G: Yeah. But it seems to be even before that.

C: Yeah, I think before that, also. So like, how long has it been since Cas and Gabriel have seen each other, and what did Cas think Gabriel was up to?

G: I mean, I don't know. Sometimes your brother just disappears.

C: That's true. Yeah, I just- It's so sad that they don't get to talk properly. 'Cause like, I don't know. Cas and Anna's relationship was- I mean, it was built off of history and her being his boss for a long time, but, like, you know, in Season 4, it was like, "This is one way that an angel can rebel." And Gabriel is like, as you said, another way an angel can rebel. And like, I don't know. I wish that [G: Yeah.] there was some form of emotional reaction from Cas at discovering that this is what he's been up to since he left the family.

G: Yeah. Like, Uriel, Anna, Cas, Gabriel, all of these are different manifestations of discontent. [C: Yeah.] And that's an interesting avenue to explore. They don't even explore it when Gabriel. [C: Raphael, too.] Yeah, I suppose- Yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, every angel. Honestly.

C: Yeah, none of them are happy. I guess Zachariah is having a good time. [laughs]

G: Zachariah is having a blast. But yeah, like, it's why, you know, when Gabriel comes back, I don't even think he and Cas have, like, a good conversation. [C: God.] Because they give all of the fanservice Sabriel lines to Sam. [C laughing]

C: Good. I support it.

G: 'Cause Cas telling Gabriel like, "We need you. I need you." is like, something that makes sense because that's a person who has been there the whole time, understands your family dynamic, blahblahblah. Sam saying it is like, "So, are we gonna fuck? Like, are they gonna fuck?" [C laughs]

C: I mean, Sam says in this episode that they might, like, they might need Gabriel's help, and that they're gonna "use him." Does he say that this episode?

G: What's he say?

C: Does he say that they're gonna use him, or did I make that up? Yeah, he goes, about the Trickster, like, "Maybe we can use him." So true.

G: Maybe they did need him. And he needs him. Oh, so corny! I can't believe- No, it's just, they use that line, obviously, in "Goodbye, Stranger." [C: Yes.] So it's extra funny that they use it for Sam and Gabriel. [laughs] Like, what is this? [C: Pretty good.] Supernatural is truly a funnyass show. [C: Pretty good.]

C: So Gabriel snaps his fingahs, and they end up in a cop procedural. Apparently, it's supposed to be CSI Miami. And Sam and Dean are in suits with like, sunglasses and stuff. And there's a body. And Dean says that he hates procedural cop shows because all of them are the same. And he goes, "It's like, 'Ooh, plane crash here!' Shut up." That's so mean. Just because Elementary has a plane crash episode in the first season doesn't mean you have to be so mean, Dean! [both laugh] Anyway, so they noticed that there is a cop who's sucking a lollipop, just like MIKA for real. So they're like, "Okay, let's figure out a way to just kill that guy." So Sam and Dean inspect the body, and the whole time, they start doing like, really corny, not even good jokes/puns about the death in like, their "I'm a cop who's cool and wears sunglasses at night" voices.

G: It is pretty fun, though. [C: It's pretty fun.] It's pretty fun to see Sam slowly remove his sunglasses.

C: - glasses, and then put them back on after a joke, and then remove them again for more jokes. Yeah. [laughs] [G: Iconic.] So they're doing this, and the other cop just keeps laughing and laughing like, "God, these are such good jokes about this dead body in front of us!" And the while he is distracted with laughing, Dean stabs him with a wooden stake, and it's not Gabriel. There's a different cop somewhere else who starts laughing and turns into Gabriel and goes like, "You've got the wrong guy, idiots." And Dean goes, "Did we?" And-

G: And Sam comes in!

C: And Sam comes behind Gabriel, and he stabs him, nonsexually, I suppose, [G: Sad.] but it could be. And Gabriel falls over. There's a bunch of static. And now they're in the warehouse that they entered in the first place. Gasp! [G: Yeah.] And Gabriel is supposedly dead on the ground, so they go back to their motel.

G: In there, Dean's washing his face, and he's like, "Man, I'm worried about Cas! I wonder what happened to Cas."

C: Wow. God. I guess it's been a few hours, so they would assume that Cas would come back to check in, so yeah.

G: Yeah. And as he's doing this, nobody's responding, so he goes out to the room, and nobody's there. And he's like, "Um, Sam, where the hell are you?" So he goes to the Impala, and he's like, leaving a voicemail for Sam as he steps in, and then he goes in, and somebody goes, "Dean?" And Dean's like, "Huh? Where the fuck are you? I don't see anyone." And Sam was like, "Oh, crap!" and we realize that he's inside the fucking car, and they didn't kill the Trickster.

C: Or he is the car.

G: He is the car. He is the car. And [laughs] it's just a really fun scene where it's like, as the Impala drives, there's a really fun theme song, and the lights of the front of the Impala are like, waving about. [C: Yeah.] Ah! Is Sam or Dean a Transformers kid? Were they Transformers kids.

C: Yeah, wait, wasn't there the Metatron/Megatron thing in "Reading is Fundamental"?

G: [laughs] Yeah, that's a Transformer. [both] Yeah. So I think from that, we can assume that

G: they are not Transformers kids because Sam made that mistake. Also, I do not think Sam would have made that mistake. Sam would not have been like, "Megatron."

C: Yeah, like, he's Bible boy to me. I think he knows about the Metatron. [G: Yeah.] I don't even think the Metatron's in the Bible. Is the Metatron in the Bible?

G: No, but he's read Good Omens. He's read Good Omens, so [C laughs] he'll know!

C: God, so true. That's why he was niceys to Jack. He was like, "No, don't worry. I read a book."

G: "This is just like Adam for real!" Yeah. [C: Yeah.] They're brainstorming on like, what's happening right now, and Sam goes, "The stake didn't work because what if this is not a trickster? You heard Cas. He said this thing was too powerful to be a trickster." And Dean goes, [both laughing] "Did you notice the way he looked at Cas? Almost like he knew him," which, for some reason, I find it hilarious that he pointed it out. And Sam goes, "Yeah, and how pissed he got when you brought up Michael and Lucifer." So they have figured out who or what they're dealing with.

C: Yeah, this is an archangel.

G: Well, it's an angel, maybe. [C: Or an angel, yeah.] I don't think they expected it to be Gabriel. [C: Yeah.] Like, I think that is still a reveal.

C: They set up in a park. I guess there was some holy oil left over from 5.03 that Dean kept in the trunk or something, 'cause like, Cas said it was very rare, and he had to go to Jerusalem to get it. So yeah. There's like, a joke where Dean's getting stuff from the trunk of the car, which is Sam, and Sam goes, "Dean, that feels really uncomfortable." Like, okay, slay. It is funny when Dean close the trunk and [both] Sam goes, "Ow." [G laughs] [G: So true!] God bless. Dean just starts shouting to the sky, and he goes like, "We'll do it!" which I think like-

G: Yeah, that's dangerous. Dean!

C: Like, bro, you just literally said yes to Michael and Lucifer. I don't know what the rules are specifically, like, maybe you have to say the word "yes" specifically, but like, I would personally not risk this. Like, this seems like Michael can now come in. Gabriel shows up, and he goes, "Wow, Sam. Get a load of the rims on you." And Sam goes, "Eat me!" And Gabriel doesn't even make the obvious next joke after the words "rims" and "eat" have happened, so maybe Sabriel isn't real.

G: That is so sad.

C: And then Dean's like, "You have to turn Sam back to human before we properly agree." It happens. Sam's back. Does Sam speak at all for the rest of the- Okay, no, he has like, one line, but he says very little in the later scenes. The Trickster's- well, okay, Gabriel's like, "I'm a trickster. Why didn't the stake kill me? Um, I don't know." And then Sam drops the lighter, and then a ring of fire happens around where Gabriel is standing. So, somehow, they were able to guess that he would just be in the middle of that circle. Because with Raphael, Dean did some stuff to lead him in the middle. With this one, he was just there, I guess. Lucky them. And Dean goes, "I think you're an angel." And Gabriel's like, "That's craaazy."

G: He's like, "What? What? That's so funny! What?"

C: Like, "Me? Huh? Noo!" And Dean's like, "Okay. Go out of the holy fire, and, you know, it proves that you're not an angel. Go for it." But he does not, and-

G: He changes back to real life.

C: - there's static, and we're back in the warehouse.

G: And he's clapping, which is pretty fun. Gabriel asks, "Where did I screw up?" and Sam goes, "You didn't." Oh, Sabriel is real! [laughs] "Nobody gets the jump on Cas like you did." Is that true?

C: Sastiel is real. And that's literally not true. Love is blinding Sam. Cas gets beat up, like, every other episode.

G: Literally! Like, Cas cannot even throw a fucking punch.

C: Sam had to rescue Cas from Alastair in "On the Head of a Pin." Like, Sam has explicitly seen someone get the jump on Cas.

G: Exactly. Dean goes like, "Mostly, it was the way you talked about Armageddon. Call it personal experience, but nobody gets that angry unless they're talking about their own family." [C: Corny.] And Sam goes, "So which one are you? Grumpy, Sneezy, or Douchey?" He thinks he's so funny.

C: Not funny. He's not funny. His standup career's doomed.

G: Not funny, but I'm gonna stand by his side here because this is a Snow White reference, and I just know that Dean would give him shit for it, so it's okay.

C: [laughs] That's true. That's true. Sam, I'm really glad that you're being more open about your sexuality.

G: [laughs] You know that- I don't know if this is a post, actually, but like, that one where it's like, "Dean literally is like, fine if Sam is attracted to man, but he's not fine if Sam knows about Disney princesses."

C: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. I thought you were gonna talk about the joke that was like, one time Dean would drink like, a mocha in front of Sam, and think that that was like, [both] coming out. And later, when Sam goes like, "What? You're bi?" Dean's like, "I literally told you. Like, I drink gay coffee in front of you." [both laugh]

G: Literally! He reveals now that he is, in fact, Gabriel, the archangel. Dean asked how did he become the Trickster, and he says, it's a witness protection because he wants to skip out of Heaven, and so he did, and had, you know, "carved out a little corner of the world."

C: Do we learn anything about Gabriel's vessel? 'Cause he says he had a face transplant. Like, is this is his own body?

G: What it is is there is a trickster that looks exactly like this [C: Okay.], and he, like, borrowed that God's image, [C: Huh!] is, I think, how I remember it from future seasons. [C: Fun!] And Dean's like, "Oh, so what did Daddy say about this?" And Gabriel's- He's very spiteful every time he talks about, like, anything family-related. Because Gabriel's tone in general is kind of, like, sarcastic, dramatic, whatever every single time any of his brothers or God is brought up, he just starts being genuinely pissed and upset. And he just goes, "Daddy doesn't say anything about anything!" Sam asks, like, "Okay, so why did you leave?" And Dean is trying to be spiteful, I guess, and he goes, "Do you blame him? His brothers are heavyweight douchenozzles." Truly a line. Gabriel's like, upset that Dean is saying this, and he's saying, "You don't know anything about my family. I love my fathers. I love my brothers. But watching them turn on each other? Tear at each other's throats? I couldn't bear it, okay?"

C: Richard Speight was not being a very good actor during the scene, but I think it's 'cause the lines are a bit overdramatic.

G: Yeah. And he's saying that he doesn't necessarily want the world to be over, but he wants "it" to be over, like, "it" being the fighting and the backstabbing and the killing each other of his brothers. So he doesn't care who wins. He just wants it to be done. He's saying there's absolutely no stopping it. And at some point, he goes, "This isn't about a war. It's about two brothers that loved each other and betrayed each other. [C: Booing.] You think you'd be able to relate." [C: Booing so loud.] And then Sam goes, "What are you talking about?" Obviously, Sam, he's talking about you and Dean. I have no idea why you're asking.

C: I don't think Sam would say this. Like, I don't know. I feel like- Who wrote this? Jeremy Carver? [G: Yeah.] I think he just thinks the audience is stupid. [laughs] I don't know. All the Gabriel speech is so on the nose, and like, it's just very- I just think it's like- this is like, they set this up to be like, "They're two brothers, and they're gonna fight each other, just like Sam and Dean." I feel like that's something that you would want to do more subtly or to do later in the season if it was gonna be a #reveal or whatever because you want people to, like, realize it by themselves and go like, "Oh, that's kinda interesting." But to just shove it down the audience's throat like this, even to have Sam be like, "Huh? What?" just so Gabriel could explain it more is like, dumb. It's like a patting themselves on the back.

G: Yeah. I would have preferred that Sam and Dean, like, realize it by themselves. [C: Yes.] Like, that would be my ideal. Not Gabriel telling them, not anyone telling them, just being like, "I think it's us because we are brothers and etc." [C: Yeah.] Because that warrants more self-introspection for the both of them versus whatever the fuck they're trying to do here. But yeah. He's saying, like, "As it is in Heaven, so it must be on Earth. One brother must kill the other. Michael, the big brother"--and he points at Dean--"loyal to an absent father, [C: Stupid.] and Lucifer, the little brother"--points at Sam [C: Stupid.]--"rebellious of Daddy's plan." You think it's stupid?

C: Stupid as shit. Yeah. [laughs] Sorry, I do.

G: Can you elaborate?

C: Okay, I think the fact that he's saying it is stupid, I guess. [G: Yeah.] Like, they're spelling it out soo hard. I don't get it. You don't have to do it. Just don't do it.

G: Yeah. So he's saying, like, "The moment Dad flipped the lights on around here, we knew it was all gonna end with you. Always," which is pretty damn terrifying, I suppose.

C: Boo. Yeah. Dean goes, "No. That's not gonna happen." And at this point, Danica goes, "Why does Dean get to make the choice? What if Sam wants to kill him?" [both laugh] [G: Literally.] And so true. And Gabriel's like, "No, like, it has to happen. I wish this was a TV show because there would be easy answers and endings wrapped up in a bow, but it's real, and it's gonna end bloody for all of us." I hate when TV shows go [G: So corny.] like, "This isn't, like, fiction where it's a neat narrative. This is like, real." Supernatural is the most formulaic [both laugh], not real show in the entire world. [G: Literally.] Every episode- There's 20 different posts about the formula of Supernatural where you go, "Let's go kill and hunt monsters on the road." "What about the most recent traumatic event?" "Well, I think what would make me feel better about recent traumatic event is if we could kill, and hunt monsters, on the road." Like, that is Supernatural. You cannot be like, "We're so much better than like, Grey's Anatomy and like, blahblahblahblahblah, 'cause we're like, raw." Like, [laughs] no, you're not. [G laughs] [G: Literally.] Yeah. And it is an easy answer with an ending wrapped up in a bow at the end of "Swan Song," I would say. So yeah. Whatevs.

So after this little speech, Gabriel's still in the holy fire. And he's like, "Okay, well, what now?" And Dean, 'cause Destiel is real, goes, "Well, first of all, you're gonna bring Cas back from wherever you stashed him." Aw, that is kind of nice. And after some threats, Gabriel does this. And Cas appears! And he looks totally uninjured, totally fine. But Dean still goes, "Cas, you okay?"

G: Literally! Like, what is this? What is this? It's cute. They're buddies.

C: Yeah, it is cute.

G: What's so funny is like, I cannot conceptualize Cas at this point being like, "Dean, are you okay?" [C laughs] Like, he DGAF about Dean being okay this way. [C: Yeah.] But Dean is like, "Are you hurties? I know you're an angel, and everything but like, are you fine?"

C: "Are you okay? Do you have a boo-boo? Do you need me to kiss it better?"

G: "Do you need a little fun little bandaid that I can put on your face?"

C: "Do you need a pink flower bandaid?" Yeah. And Cas goes, "I'm fine. Hello, Gabriel."And Gabe asks him how the search for God is going. "Let me guess. Awful." And Cas just death-glares at him. I really wish they talked. [G: Yeah.] But yeah. Whatever. Or that like- I don't know. I can see why Cas would be like, "I know you guys can't convince Gabriel to help, but maybe I can," 'cause Cas is an angel who, like, recently got convinced to help, and he and Gabriel are sort of friends. Like, they do have a history. But yeah. It's nothing, it's absolutely nothing. So Dean goes, "We're out of here. Come on, Sam!" Again, what if Sam wanted to kill you? Like, let him make that choice. [G: Literally.] He hasn't spoken since "What are you talking about?" [both laugh] It's dumb. Maybe he's been just standing there in like, abject shame over how dumb that question was, so that's why he hasn't said anything.

G: [laughing] He was like, "My standup career is over! [C laughing] My interview career? Over!"

C: "God, I really do have to be a hunter forever now!" So Gabe is like, "What the fuck? Are you just gonna leave me here in this fire, like, foreber?" And Dean goes, "No, 'cause we're nice, unlike you! And also, this isn't about some prize fight between your brothers or some destiny that can't be stopped. This is about you being too afraid to stand up to your family." Which I think is a really- I just think there's a lot of assumptions baked into that. I don't really know what, from Gabriel's speech, would make Dean so sure that Gabriel could just stop the Apocalypse if he wanted to.

G: No, it's not about- I actually like this line, [C: Okay.] and to defend it, I would say it's not about whether you can stop the Apocalypse and whether that's a certain fact or not. It's because you, personally, just have given up. And like, I did appreciate that. Like, "Your bitterness isn't from your family fighting. It's from you and your helplessness, and you have subjected yourself to that helplessness as well." [C: Okay.] I thought it was an interesting thing for Dean to say, is why I like it. Is there a self-introspection thing happening here? I don't think so.

C: I don't think so. I don't think anything regarding Dean and the Apocalypse involved him being too afraid to stand up to his family.

G: Yeah. I would have liked if this line wasn't with Dean. Like, if it was with Sam, I probably would like it better, and it would be more comprehensible for the audience to like, connect to, or whatever. You know what I mean.

C: And yeah, it would close off the "Sam wanted to get Gabriel as an ally," I think, better, too. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, Sam's like, "Well, you could have been. But I can see that you're too afraid, blahblahblah, I'm off." Like, that makes sense to me.

Dean pulls the fire alarm so that the water can put out the fire eventually. [laughs] The transcript says, "The fire goes out; apparently in this world water extinguishes grease fires instead of spreading them." [G laughs] God! You're so real, transcript person.

C: They go outside, and like, Cas follows them outside but then he just stands near the door so they can have a brother moment.

G: They can have a menace-off.

C: Right, yeah, 'cause while Cas is leaving, there's a last shot of, like, him looking at Gabriel and stuff, which is like, the only real bit of like, "Cas and Gabriel do have a special relationship" thing that we get this episode. But hopefully we see them interact more in the future?

G: This is like, probably- Do you think this is in the script? Like, they wrote it in? Or this is Charles Beeson being like, "Uh."

C: I think Charles Beeson, who apparently goes by Chuck, [G: Fun!] ] 'cause that's what Hiro Kanagawa called him- Yeah. Do you think Chuck was named after Charles Beeson at all, or probably not.

G: Chuck Shurley? No.

C: Yeah. No?

G: I'm a hater. I'm so sorry. [C laughs]

C: I think that Chuck Beeson just put it in.

G: I think "Chuck" and "Charles" are such fun names, and everybody should be named Chuck or Charles. Or Charlie, just like that angel told me. [both laugh]

C: Just like Gabriel told you to in your dream. But like, the real Gabriel, not this one. And not the Good Omens one.

G: The Gabriel from Manga Messiah. [both laugh] To everyone who has not listened to RubbishPod, the context of that is when I was like- I'm trans. Surprise.

C: What? [laughs]

G: [laughs] Who would have thunk? But when I changed my name to Grey, shortly afterwards, I had a dream where the angel Gabriel descended upon upon me in my sleep and told me that I should change my name to Charlie, and I didn't, because I believe in autonomy and human choices. [both laughing]

C: Yeah. Better request than like, "Go be pregnant," at least.

G: Literally! Like, maybe I am the Second Coming. [C: Yeah. So true.] But I rejected it, so it's not gonna happen.

C: Oh my god! You saved the world by not changing your name to Charlie. Thank you!

G: [laughs] And I considered it, too. I was like, interviewing my friends like, "Hey, so, what do we think of Charlie as a name?" And everyone was like, "That is so stupid that you're gonna change it from a dream, but good for you." [C laughs]

They go out, and Dean is like, "Ugh, do you think all that was true?" And Sam was like, "Yeah, I think he believes it." And Dean was like, "What do we do now?"

C: I think Sam delivered it more as like a "I think he believes it." I don't think he's that bought into it.

G: He's not saying, "Yeah." Okay, yeah yeah yeah. And Dean goes, "[slight Southern accent] Well, I'll tell you one thing. Right about now, I wish I was back in a TV show." He doesn't say it with that accent, [C laughs] but he should have. [C: Yeah.] And yeah, they go into the car. We don't even see a shot of Cas getting into the car.

C: Yeah. Where is he? I don't think he gets into the car.

G: I think we see a shot- We see a shot of him, like, moving out of the thing- of the building. But that's it. That's the last shot.

C: Yeah, I think he just fucks off. I think that Sam and Dean don't talk to him. I personally would be questioning Cas a lot about Gabriel because, like, he knows him, but they apparently don't give a shit.

G: Well, they're gonna do it in the car.

C: I don't think Cas got in the car!

G: I think he does. I think he does.

C: I don't think he does. He's like, not even in the background shots while they're talking.

G: He is! He is! He goes out of the building, and we see him move towards the car.

C: He's too far- Huh. I don't know.

G: We don't see him open the door.

C: I don't think he got in the car.

G: Oh, sad.

C: Maybe- Once 5.09 opens with Cas sitting in the backseat [G: In the car.], I'll eat my words. Yeah. [G: Exactly.]

G: Well, what did we think about this episode? I thought it was pleasant.

C: It was fine.

G: It was okay. It was fine. And I did enjoy it. And Season 5 has been treating me rather okay. I'm not as egregiously upset about everything, so that's fun. [C: Yeah.] Yeah! Best Line/Worst Line. What is our fucking best line in this episode? You know, I know my worst line, and it's Sam going, "What do you mean?" or whatever he says there. [C laughs] Like, what do you mean "what do you mean"?

C: Yeah, it's fucking stupid.

G: Shut the fuck up, Sam. Sorry, Sam! Nobody should silence Sam ever, because he's already so silenced. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, he should be able to ask all the dumb questions he wants. Best line- I guess when Dean's saying that he's worried about Cas or whatever. Sure. Why not?

G: Yeah. I did like when he goes, "You okay?" which is cute.

C: Yeah. Worst line...

G: I would say I would plant an honorary best line to, "It's him. It's Dr. Sexy." Just because, you know, I do love Dean, and I do love that he's bisexual, so good for him.

C: I support bisexuality in all people except for Misha Collins. So yeah, good for Dean.

G: Thank god, he's straight, yeah.

C: Thank god! What's my worst line?

G: Every single day, I'm so grateful that [C laughs] we didn't have a recording in those few days.

C: No, literally! There was a three day sequence when we would have spent like, half of the BABPod episode being like, "And Misha Collins is bi?" And then we would have put it out, like, after he wasn't. So like- [both laughing]

G: Truly horrific!

C: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess it'd be a fun bit of Supernatural history captured. [G: Yeah.] But yeah.

G: We refused to talk about it for like, episodes after, too. We were like, "Let's just never acknowledge it!" [both laugh]

C: Yeah. I still need a worst line. I don't know, I guess just when the host introduces Nutcracker because I guess that's when the accent begins.

G: I do love- they also say Oishii here, which is- in the Philippines, that's a brand of shrimp chips, and it's fun. I love Oishii. [C: Nice.] "Oishii? Oh, wow!" That's their tagline. [C laughs] They were the sponsor of my high school fair in tenth grade, and [C: It worked!] the ads were crazy at that time. Like, I have all of the fucking promo material memorized. [C: Damn.] Well, anyway. [laughs] What's our stats?

C: Right. The fucking [G: The spreadsheets.]- the writer sins, yes.

G: I would say for misogyny-

C: Misogyny exists. Racism exists. Did homophobia exist? I forgot.

G: Homophobia surprisingly does not exist, so I think-

C: Ever, in the world.

G: Yeah. Thank god.

C: Okay, how much racism and misogyny exists?

G: I would say- I would point at a 1 and 1 in this, although I could be convinced with a 2 and 2.

C: Yeah, I think, yeah. Hm. I feel like I'm leaning more towards a 2 and 2. Though, okay, I think the misogyny- It feels a little bit- Like, they're parodying things, I suppose. [G: Yeah.] So like, it's a little better. But also, like, if you're parodying things and the parody is just that you hired women to stand around in bikinis and then didn't give them lines, like, I don't think it's that good of a parody. [G: Yeah.] So misogyny, I could go 1 or 2. Racism, I think I'm a 2. [G: Okay.] Yeah, 2 and 2 sounds good. [G: Yeah.] And no homophobia, I think. [laughs] Nice.

G: Yeah. Because Sam isn't homophobic. He's just misogynistic! [laughs]

C: Oh yeah, the menopause line. I forgot about that one! [G laughs]

G: Oh, god! Truly a horrific show in those values.

C: Yeah. Last episode we had the like, "Talking about suicide makes you grow a vagina" line. Like, truly, a a set of things to be putting next to each other, yeah.

G: Okay. IMDb. So, I mean, [C: High.] I think I'm not spoiling anyone by saying this is high, for sure. But how high? [C: Yes. Right.] You go first.

C: Right. Okay. "The End" was a 9.1. People- Do people like fun ones more than they like good, serious ones?

G: I think so.

C: I think so also. So I'm just gonna go with a 9.2?

G: Hm! You know what? I'm gonna go for a 9.4.

C: Whoa, okay.

G: Okay. Let's do it!

So the IMDb for Supernatural "Changing Channels" is... 9.6.

C: Holy fuck, that is high. [G: That's high.] This is not that good.

G: It's not that good.

C: I guess if you go in not knowing this is going to be the structure, like, you are chortling and giggling a lot more, I guess. [G: Yeah.] 'Cause it's like, I know that this is the silly TV one.

G: Yeah, I think there's also the aspect of, once you watch it here, and you still haven't- you don't know that they're gonna do "The French Mistake," you don't know that they're gonna do "Fan Fiction," like, you're still a bit more like, "Oh, okay. Cool stuff." They will- If we're rating this by zaniness, they will do surely more zany stuff in the future. But if you're just watching this in 2009, you don't know that, so. And this one is like, "It's appropriate that my guilty pleasure show is like, parodying guilty pleasure shows," which is, okay. Slay! This one just loves the intro sequence.

C: "Given that I always loved the Trickster, I was very happy to find out he is one of the decent angels, the angel Gabriel." What is a decent angel? Like, he wants the world to end.

G: What is a decent angel? I mean, he's an angel with a characterization.

C: Is that what it means?

G: I suppose Zachariah is an indecent angel. [laughs]

C: Sure. People just really like the Trickster as a character. [G: Yeah.] I suppose. I don't know. He's always just been kind of annoying to me, but-

G: Yeah. I mean, it's something new in a slough of what Supernatural is, it's a new concept, a new idea. It's fresh, it's fun. So I get it. I get that people like it for that.

G: Okay, so that's it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 9. Do you know what it is?

C: No. What is it?

G: It's "Real Ghostbusters." Leave us a reading or review wherever you get your podcasts!

C: Is this the Wincest cosplayers one, or is that a different one?

G: It's the convention.

C: So the Wincest cosplayers are there.

G: And so the Wincest ones and the Chuck one. Like, Chuck's here, Becky's here.

C: Oh, and Becky's back, right. This is when the Becky/Chuck love story starts?

G: I suppose so. I don't know.

C: Cool.

G: Crystal's audio got cut off after this, but, I mean, you know where to find us. We're at [email protected] for email, bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com for Tumblr, ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod. We keep our outtakes there. [laughs] We have a really fun one this episode. And yeah! Thank you so much for listening! See you all next week! or next time, or whenever you're listening, I guess. Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 4 days

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sorry I keep sending asks but I love you guys but anyways wanted to say one of the ways bapod influenced me personally is that now whenever I watch or think of media I keep imagining how I’d talk about it if I was on a podcast kind of like yours? It is very fun. Like I keep having brain conversations lmao but also it did help me in many aspects when it comes to media analysis? A lot of things fly over my head that now I pay more attention to

never apologize for sending messages!!! and no i do the same thing too i review many things in my head now. that's exciting that it helps w media analysis! one day when the wanni gotham podcast drops (/j) i will be a top listener

- Crystal :)

#asks

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 5 days

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hiii podcast been bringing me immense joy every morning I just keep laughing because it’s so funny but also wanted to say one of my favorite bits is when either of you say “ we have to edit that out “ but it’s there lmao I love it

HI WANNI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! glad to be bringing you joy on your drive to evil job. and sdfjdlsf i also find that bit v funny bc grey does the editing and i don't find out until transcribing what he does and doesn't delete like the world DOES need to hear this rpf joke so true

- Crystal :)

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 8 days

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You guys saying Cas and Gabriel's responses to family conflict are for Gabriel to just leave and Cas to try to defer to dad made me immediately start to think of them as Sam & Dean mirrors and understand sabriel shippers for the first time

omg soooooooooo true. the differences (the smudges and cracks in the mirror if you will) between them is also so interesting though in that gabriel's reason for leaving is bc he can't stand his brothers fighting + can't stand up to his brothers whereas i feel like for sam the impression i got was can't stand abuse + often stands up for himself but it doesn't get through. god they neeed to meet again in another ring of fire situation where each of them mocks the other one for their Going Off To Do Their Own Thing stints and calls them a coward while also having a mini internal breakdown about stanford (or the week sam quit hunting this season) or about being a trickster. and then they should fuck about it

barely related but this makes me think about how cas loves to draw parallels between god and john but like. god is not there s4 cas is just acting on his perceived orders. the absent winchester parent whose intentions/desires you try to guess and that you worship is maryyy. to me. and her coming back and being a failwoman disappointment (affectionate) coming right on the heels of chuck reveal and god being a failman disappointment (derogatory)... in several years perhaps i will have something to say about that

- Crystal :)

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 8 days

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Episode 90: Sam's Stand-Up Career, OVER!

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural Episode 5.08 - Changing Channels. We talk about: Dean's bisexuality, Sabriel AND Destiel being kinda real, and defending Grey's Anatomy.

Bonus Ko-Fi Episode Outtakes

Redbubble

Transcript

#episode #babpod #spn #supernatural #season 5

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 9 days

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hey! i'm a few episodes behind and this isn't supernatural-related but i heard grey mention the white tiger and wanted to say that i studied it in a class on film adaptations! i definitely enjoyed the book more lol. do you think there's any book/movie that would've been fun to see paid homage to in supernatural? (like stuck in the middle with you)

omg! the white tiger was required reading for us during 8th grade (which i think is unique to my school, have not heard of any other friends who read it in high school english as well) and when the movie came out it was suchhhhhh an event for literally everyone who has ever went to our school because pretty much all of us loved that book so much (i remember watching it like the hour it dropped with some high school friends, and prior to watching everyone made a wishlist of "things in the book i hope they put in the movie")

not to get off tangent but while the movie was i think a pretty okay adaptation, i do feel like the book made it very easy for the movie since it was already very visual and imagery heavy. some of my favorite visuals (the cart of cattle skulls being pulled by a bull!) did not even make it! and yeah some of the ambiguity of the story was lost by actually showing it, but i did not come out too disappointed so i think it was still something.

as per what spn could have paid homage to, i am definitely not enough of a movie watcher to know, and i've not read many american pop culture books to know either. for an homage to work and not be a parody, there needs to be deep love and respect for the original, i believe (as in, stuck in the middle with you was an homage, dr sexy md was a parody) and the overlap between "media supernatural loves and respects" and "media grey loves and respects" may very well only be kurt vonnegut's works. i have been saying that i would have loved an episode where we see how Mr. Cas multidimensional-wavelength-of-celestial-intent tiel experiences time (perhaps how he is unstuck in it?) which could be a slaughterhouse-five thing if one tried hard enough.

what it is fundamentally is that supernatural by itself is and has always been an homage to antigone. TO ME.

would love to hear what you and everyone's thoughts on what spn should have paid homage too as well!

- grey <3

#asks #thank u for the wonderful ask!!!!!#really enjoyed answering this

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 13 days

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Episode 89 Transcript: The Imagery of This Kind of Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen the show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian and hope Dean Winchester dies.

G: Yeah, we are both Asian, and that is super relevant [C laughs], I think, this episode. Well, this week, we will be discussing 5.07, "The Curious Case of Dean Winchester," written by Sera Gamble, story by Sera Gamble and Jenny Klein, directed by Robert Singer.

C: What is Jenny Klein's deal? Is Jenny Klein the cause of this evil? Probably not, 'cause Sera Gamble is the cause of much evil, but, like, did she make it worse?

G: She wrote "Caged Heat," which is a Megstiel episode.

C: That one has a Megstiel kiss, so I think she's fine and she probably has never done anything wrong, probably. That's what I think.

G: I am familiar with all of these episodes! She was in "In With the New, Out with the Old," which I think- It's an episode I remember from Season 7, and then "Torn and Frayed," which I think is the Samandriel episode. She's also part of "Rock and a Hard Place," which is the new- like, where they re-virginize. [both laugh]

C: "Just My Imagination" is well-liked.

G: The Sam episode, yeah. [C: Yeah.] It's so funny that like, when you get to the further on and Supernatural, you'll have, like, one episode in a season that's just the Sam episode. Like, they give him nothing.

C: 'Cause there's not enough Sam episodes in the world, yeah.

G: Well, this is also a Robert Singer episode [C laughs] which is soo true! [laughing] It's soo true! It literally is. Like, Robert Singer, I know who you are, [laughs] and we know each other intimately, and I know him when I see him. Like, there's this one shot where- it's supposed to be funny, so it's fine but like- Dean is climbing up the stairs, and Sam looks at him and then points at the, like, floor level, and then it pans and it zooms to the number 2, and I was like, "Robert Singer is here with us right now." [C laughs] Well, what did you know about this episode before going in?

C: Absolutely nothing. Like, when I encountered pieces of it, it was like, oh, I know this happens in Supernatural somewhere, but I didn't know it was like, this episode. Like, I know about our mutual Ellie being like, the number one Sampatrick warrior, but I didn't know until midway through that Patrick would be here.

G: They kind of slay. [C: They did kind of slay.] Like, Patrick slays as a character.

C: Yeah. He does feel kind of heterosexual, but like, [G: No, he doesn't!] I feel like Sam could change him.

G: He is so gay or European! [C laughs] Like, let's go!

C: Yeah, I think he was just so European that I couldn't see the queerness, but like, I feel like I view him as a guy who's like, heteroflexible, and Sam is his exception or something.

G: Noo. [C: No? No?] That man's bisexual for real. [C: Alright, alright.] I believe it in my heart. I am also- I am number two Sampatrick truther.

C: [laughs] Nice. I'll take number three, then. I think there's very few people. [G laughing]

G: I mean, their dynamic is fun, and Patrick is well, sympathetic, and like, not evil. [C: Yeah.] Even the show acknowledges that.

C: I think if they had encountered each other later on when Sam was further in his witch journey, like, I don't know. Something could've happened.

G: Sam could learn a thing or two, yeah. [C: Yeah.] Sam loves a witch. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. And Irish people.

G: Oh my god, you're right! No, Rowena is Scottish, I think.

C: No, I was talking about Eileen! Do you not care about Eileen?

G: Oh, yeah! Sorry, I was thinking about Rowena, as I am all the time.

C: Yeah, no, you said the witch thing, yeah. Yeah, I think the the Sam/Patrick/Rowena/Eileen and Max Banes polycule will truly conquer the world one day, yeah. [G: Exactly.] Right, I knew that there was going to be a scene, like, in a brothel with Asian sex workers and that Dean would like, lift the blanket of the guy to like, check something [G: Look at his dick.], I guess. Was that what it was?

G: You know, I see people being like, "And Dean is bisexual because he checks this guy out,

which is crazy!

C: Yeah, no, I at first knew that scene just for the the blanket movement thing, and everyone was just being like, "Oh my god, bi Dean Winchester for real," [G: Completely unrelated to bisexuality!] and then at some point, Danica watched this episode, and then she was like, "This episode is so horrible." I did not remember which episode. She just told me about the scene and was like, "This is so horrible." I was like, "Wow. Bi Dean Winchester posting ignores racism once more, I see." [G laughs]

G: Literally! It's always like, bi Dean Winchester posting ignores racism and misogyny. Like, why do we do this? I feel like there's sufficient evidence if you want to look for it.

C: Yeah, you can just find other scenes where Dean Winchester is bisexual and not being misogynistic or racist.

G: Yeah! Yeah! Ah, well.

C: Also, I don't know. I feel like checking someone's dick, like, is not a particularly bi thing to do. It's a very straight man dick measuring contest thing to do.

G: It is, yeah! Like, straight guys love dicks. They do, right? [C laughs] Like, they love to draw it, they love to talk about it, to joke about it.

C: But, you know, whatever. And then obviously, I knew about the little, like, leap in the air that Dean does when he comes down from the apartment building-

G: Ah! He is cute.

C: - 'cause people put that in AMVs all the time. [G: Yeah.] I think those were the bits that I recognized when I came to them, but yeah. I didn't know anything in advance from the title, and I knew very little of the plot.

G: Yeah. I mean, I knew that there was an episode where Sam bluffs so hard and so raw in a poker game, and I knew that there's an episode where Dean gambles away his age. I didn't, for some reason, [laughs] connect the dots that they were the same episode, which is so funny.

C: Poker shows up a good amount in Supernatural.

G: Yeah. I mean, while watching the episode, I was like, "Oh, yeah they're one and the same," but that was like a while watching the episode realization. Prior to it, I just knew that Dean was going to be Benjamin Buttoned or whatever. That's not true. That's not what Benjamin Button is.

C: Yeah, that's not what Benjamin Button is, but they did mention it.

G: Is there a "Then" sequence this episode?

C: I don't think so.

G: Yeah. No "Then" sequence. Nothing prior has ever happened in Supernatural.

C: It's true.

G: Yeah, we start the episode with a woman reading, like, a newspaper or something on her couch. Her husband comes into the house, runs upstairs, doesn't greet her or anything. And she's like, "Haha, not even a hello," whatever whatever. But then we go to the bathroom. The guy is gripping [laughs] the sink, just like in all the movies, and he is looking at the mirror, and in the mirror, he is rapidly aging. Like, there's this one shot where he bends down and he has a full head of hair and he goes below the mirror, then he when he comes back up again, it's bald. Like, his hair- his head is bald, which is pretty fun, if I'm being honest! And yeah, it's just happening. He's just getting old. He stumbles against a glass, like, case and then it smashes, and then the wife, like, hears this, goes upstairs, goes to him, she opens the door of the bathroom, and then she does, like, a horror movie scream. And I was like, it would be so funny if the only reason she's screaming is because her husband is old, but it literally is. [C laughs]

C: I mean, he's also dead.

G: No, I mean, you don't know that. Because the way they say it is "He died of old age." So he could have just been lying down there, and you won't know until you go down and check that he's dead. [C: Sure.] But I guess it's also the aspect of "there's a foreign guy"- not foreign. [C: Yeah, there's a stranger.] There's an outsider in my house.

C: Also, the scream sounds like the word "no," [G: Yeah!] which I think is a very silly thing to scream. [G laughs] Like, were you expecting this? Like, "no" is like, you understand the situation and you don't like it. I don't think she understands the situation yet. But yeah. Yeah. He went to the witch that makes you old. Question. I have no clue how the fuck this age thing works because like, [G: Yeah.] the guy later, in the brothel, he wins his years back so like, he becomes younger. But like, this guy was 25, and, like, he lost, like, what? Like, 70 years or something? Did he want to become a baby?

G: No, he just kept on betting and betting and betting in the hopes that he'll win it back. [C: Okay.] And also, the way it seems is like, you don't go unless the guy tells you that you ought to go, so he can just keep you there on the chair.

C: Like, he was 25 and he was like, "I want to be 15"? Like, what age was he aiming for as a 25-year-old?

G: Oh my god, you're right! You're right! And also, why is he- I just did not connect the dot that he was 25 because he looked 35 or 40.

C: Yeah, but they said at the morgue he was 25, right?

G: Yeah, yeah, he was, yeah.

C: Like, what age was he aiming for? And I think maybe you don't necessarily have to cash them in because the guy who wins 13 years later, I don't see him grow younger-looking, so like, what determines whether your years get cashed in or if you're just adding to your lifespan?

G: I don't know. I think the guy cashed it in, like, it's just- it's not immediate, you know?

C: It's more subtle 'cause it's 13 years, yeah.

G: Like, Bobby takes a while to grow older. I was confused a little bit by the fact that this guy was 25, [laughs] and then he added 25 years, and then he was 50 and died from old age. [C laughs] But no no no, what it was was he just kept adding to the 25. 25 is just the beginning, like, that's the initial.

C: Yeah, and it doesn't have to be, 'cause Sam starts with five.

G: Yeah. Ah, Sam! I love Sam Winchester! [C: Yeah, I love Sam Winchester.] You know the the lore, whatever, that, like, Jared Padalecki is actually really good at poker.

C: No, I was not aware of this.

G: Apparently, he- like, that was something I hear a lot when this episode is in discussion, that like, they gave Sam the poker- like, the "Oh, he won poker with the poker guy!" because he is actually good at poker IRL.

C: Well, Sam Winchester is not good at poker IRL. Jared Padalecki is. Those are separate things.

G: Oh, yeah! This is true. So sorry. So very sorry.

C: Yeah. Don't say that about Sam. [G laughs] But yeah.

G: Never compare Sam Winchester to Jared Padalecki.

C: Yeah, those guys just look similar. That's it.

G: Yeah, unfortunate! So Sam and Dean, in a hospital. They're holding up their CDC badges, and the doctor is like, "What? You expect me to believe you're CDC?" And for a while, they're like, "Oh no!" But then the doctor goes, "It's because you guys are early and the CDC never is."

C: Well, Dean says, "New administration. A change you can believe in." which is like, an Obama thing, I suppose, [lauguhs] which I did think was kind of funny. I don't think Dean votes, though.

G: Oh! CDC is a government body?

C: Yeah. The Center for Disease Control.

G: Yeah, but I thought they were like, different. I thought CDC was kind of like a World Health Organization thing, so they're not of the US.

C: No, it's US-specific.

G: I wonder if we have something like that. Do we have a CDC? We do. We have Center for Disease Control and Prevention. [C: Yeah.] Or do we? [laughs]

C: [laughing] You said you did.

G: No, because I am not sure. Oh, so, yeah, we we have Philippine Center for Disease Prevention and Control, so we have a CDC. Wow! I mean, we ought to, obviously, [C: Yeah, everyone should.] but- I know that. No, I just thought it was like, a branch of the WHO! Of the who.

C: No, yeah, the US's control over the world discourse will do that to ya.

G: Yeah. Well, they go into the morgue. The doctor pulls out the corpse of Mr. Xavier, and he's 80 years old! Fun stuff. So he gave away 60 years? 55? Damn. Why? I mean, you're right. It's because- I mean, I'm right! It's because he just kept on betting. But, kind of crazy. Like, at some point, just give up. Like, just accept being a 40 or 50-year-old man.

C: Also, if you won all 55, he would be negative 30 years old. [laughs] Like, I don't think he wants that. He would also be dead!

G: He was just in it for the game. He was like, "I want the thrill." Yeah. Also, like, 80-year-old? I don't think you die of old age at 80 year old. At 80 years.

C: See, I don't know what- is it like, what age you were meant to die, and like, it zooms you forward, and then if it's past that, you die.

G: Well, I feel like 80 years old is not death of old age age. That's just old age age.

C: Yeah, I agree.

G: But whatever. He was born in 1984 he's 25, as you said, and the doctor ran the DNA twice, so it is him.

C: The US life expectancy in 2009 was 78.34, I think.

G: For white men?

C: Just for people.

G: In general.

C: Yeah, so you could die of old age.

G: What is it for white men? I'm sure those are different. [C: Yeah, that's true.] It could be smaller for them.

C: It is lower for men, typically.

G: Yeah, because women live longer.

C: Oh, it was 76.2. Wait, is that US?

G: So he may have died of old age.

C: Yeah, he could have, but also, like, life expectancy also involves dying of things that aren't old age, so.

G: No, yeah how is life expectancy- Is life expectancy the same as average life, like, length?

C: Average lifespan? I think.

G: Because it could just be that less children are dying, if that's the case.

C: Yeah, life expectancy is just average age of death. He could have died of old age indeed.

G: Yeah. Bobby apparently gave them this case, which is interesting that he did lead them there already, but he did. And he's asking if there's anyone else missing in town, etc etc. And he tells Sam and Dean to check it out. And as they're about to hang up, Dean asks, like, "Okay, how are you doing, Bobby?" Dean was like, "Yeah, like, just in general, how are you doing?" And Bobby doesn't like this. He goes, "Oh, you mean my legs. Well I'm weeping in my Haagen-Daaz. Idjit." And then he hangs up. And, I mean, this is like, Bobby is a bit frustrated with everything this episode, so this is a running thing this entire time. He's pissed at Dean, specifically. It is fasc- it is so funny to me because at the end of this episode, Dean and Bobby has a heart-to-heart-

C: And Sam is off getting a gonorrhea shot. [laughs]

G: - and the show makes the point of having Sam leave. [laughing] It is hilarious to me! That's literally their coworker. Like, when Dean was like, "Bobby, we're family"-

C: Okay, Sam says he's off to get a gonorrhea shot, but I think he's spreading an STI to Patrick first [G laughs] through the typical method.

G: Bruh. Well.

C: Sam was too busy having gay sex to give the "don't kill yourself" conversation to Bobby.

G: "Noo, don't kill yourself, Bobby!"

C: Yeah. Oh, and also, I think that after the phone call ends, the shot lingers on Bobby for a second alone in his house, and he just looks kind of dejected. [G: Yeah.] So yeah, it's a precursor to like, he's being all sarcastic and stoic and things, but he's going through it.

G: Yeah. Do we know how many weeks or or maybe months it's been since- 'cause this was in November.

C: Okay, Sam and Dean departed a week- like, for a week. They were apart for a week. They looked for the Colt for three weeks-

G: No, it will show you. This is in November. When was 5.01? So "Lucifer Rising" was in May.

C: "Sympathy for the Devil" was in September, though. Like, we can't do it one-to-one because of like, hiatuses and things.

G: No no no, like, November! The timeline- in the timeline. Not the showing. [C: Oh.] 'Cause this was aired in October, but in the timeline, it's November. So this was in November, and Bobby gets stabbed around May, perhaps June. So it's been a while. It's been a while!

C: Wait, so it's been six months?

G: Yeah, I suppose. And they're waiting for the Apocalypse to start, still.

C: Wait, how has it been six months if he got stabbed on day one of the- of the Apocalypse starting but not starting, and then Sam and Dean were apart for a week, and then were looking for the Colt for three weeks, and then had like, two cases since then. Like, that doesn't that make six months.

G: "Free to Be You and Me" is apparently in August.

C: How long were they apart? 'Cause it was like a week later sort of situation. Are we saying that the- that between 5.01 and 5.02, there was like, 2 months?

G: How is that possible?

C: Okay, 5.02 is in August, but then 5.03 was only a week later, and then they come back together, like, immediately because Sam calls right after the Lucifer dream and then Dean calls back, like, basically the next day after the Zachariah shit.

G: Yeah. And then three weeks. [C: Three weeks until 5.05.] And then I suppose we don't know how long last episode is. [C: Until 5.06.] Yes. Could have been a while. And then we also don't know how long between that and this. So there's that. [C: Okay.] They really will be spending an amount of time in Supernatural that we don't see. So he could have been, like, "Cas, we've talked about this" at any other time than the crane shot. 'Cause, I mean, I'm sure they have talked to Cas in between- in those two months-

C: In between 5.01 and 5.02?

G: No, like, 5.02 and 5.03, because we don't know how- What the fuck is this timeline?

C: No, it's not! It's not! It's not, though, because-

G: Bobby was still in the hospital!

C: 5.03, it was only a week- yeah, it was only a week because they said- Like, they had a one week later thing, and then Sam immediately called Dean, and, like, that happened right before.

G: What is happening?? It seems to me immediate that 5- I mean, I suppose Bobby's recovery would have been quite long in the hospital.

C: Yeah, I guess he would have been in the hospital for a few weeks. Okay, so it has to be a big gap between 5.01 and 5.02? No! No, because- [laughs] no, it doesn't make any sense! None if it makes any sense.

G: This is all a stupid conversation. Whatever. Whatever. Supernatural is so- the timeline is not good enough for me.

C: Sam and Dean are interviewing the wife of one of the missing persons in the city or town. They see a photo of him with a tattoo on his arm. They also learn that he always works a bit late on Tuesdays. So Dean's like, "That's suspicious." So he searches the house and looks inside the pockets of the husband, Cliff's, coat. He sees a receipt for Madame Liu's Golden Palace for $250, and he immediately clocks that this is a brothel. I think I would just think that it's like, a restaurant or a spa or something. I don't know what it is about the name besides Dean Winchester's automatic association-

G: I mean, it's pretty much- I would assume that it's because of the date. And it's like, working late, well he's not. He's somewhere.

C: Yeah, yeah. I guess so. I don't know. I guess when I assume affairs, I assume people are going to expensive restaurants or something. But yeah, I guess it could also be this.

G: I mean, it doesn't seem to be an affair thing. More of just sex work- buying sex work thing.

C: Yeah, yeah, but I guess when I hear "working late," I assume affairs, usually. [G: Yeah.] And I guess, I don't know. I'm like, "Maybe they just have a regular date on Tuesdays."

He Sam go to Madame Liu's Golden Palace.

G: I have a question. [C: Yes.] What is the rate of having an Asian district in the United States for like, towns? Because this doesn't seem like a particularly big town. Or is it? I'm not sure.

C: They said it was a big town because earlier, on the phone with Bobby, they say, "There's like, two missing people but that's normal for a place this size" or with this population.

G: Well, we don't know what the population. Just says couple missing persons, usual for a town this size.

C: Yeah, but that implies that the town is large enough. I don't know what state-

G: What's the difference between a town and a fucking city? Like, the rurality?

C: It's like, a population thing.

G: Well, yeah, I assume.

C: It's like- cities need to have at least 100,000? Or no, what? No.

G: So this is a town, but it's not a small town. It's not a city either.

C: I think different censuses and things have different definitions, 'cause like, this other thing says, like, it has to be under 2,000 to be a town. That can't be- Whatever. I don't know. Sometimes they just say "town."

G: I was just wondering, like, because this it is an Asian district, or whatever it is the place that they're in. Because later, when they're walking outside of the motel it has a lot of signs that are like, in Chinese or whatever script- the Asian scripts that sign is written in. So I was like, what is the commonality of that in the United States? I'm not sure.

C: I mean, there's some cities with well-known Chinatowns.

G: Of course there is, but like, that's why I was asking is this a small town or not. Because I'm assuming if it's a big town, there really would be. Or a big city, there really would be. But what is the-

C: We don't even know what state this is in, so it's hard to say. Oh. What the fuck?

G: It's in Chicago, Illinois.

C: Yeah, okay how do the Wiki people get where an episode takes place when it doesn't say.

G: Well, I don't know.

C: They called Chicago a town? [both laugh] They're crazy.

G: Wait, so we're in Chicago, Illinois? [laughs]

C: If we're in Chicago, yeah, I believe that there's an Asian district there. [G laughs] If we're in Chicago, yeah.

G: Well, wonderful.

C: Why did they say town?? Okay. Wait, but also, where do where did they say it's Chicago at any point in the episode?

G: Well, let's ctrl+F "Chicago."

C: It's nowhere in the transcript.

G: Maybe it's in, like, the script script.

C: Maybe. I think it's- yeah, no questions about an Asian district in Chicago [laughs] given the size of Chicago.

C: They're at Madam Liu's, and they walk in. I mean, it's a brothel. What are the decorations like? It's like, red and pink [G: Red, yeah.] are the colors, and Dean's like, "Well I hope that my dick can get hard when I'm this age," and Sam says, "You will die before you can test whether or not your dick can get so hard when you are old." And then they stop outside of room 44, which, like, they hate this client so much. Like, they want this client to die. [G, laughing: Yeah.] They put him in room 44? Okay, first off, I'm surprised they would make a room 44. Like, I feel like if I was a sex worker here, I would not step foot in there. I'd be like, "What with the rates of violence against sex workers I'm not going inside the fucking death room. Who decided that this was a number?" But like, to put a client in here, they hate his ass. His "blah blah blah, the second girl was for free" that is so not true. They probably just charged you double and said that the second girl was for free to like, get you to pay up, bro. [laughs] They want you to die. They put you in room 44. But yeah, I don't- everyone knows that four is like, an unlucky number in China 'cause it sounds like death? [G: Yeah.] Yeah, okay. I'm still shocked that they would make a room 44. I know that it's just the- I think it was just Sera Gamble being like, "I have a very surface level understanding of Chinese culture, and in an episode where people die, I think that it would be fun to put an unlucky number there." but I feel like if you think about it from, like, the standpoint of people running this business, they would not make a room 44. But yeah, anyway. [laughs] I won't get stuck on this 'cause there's more things coming up.

G: There's hospitals here in the Philippines that do not have a fourth floor, you know? Like, I feel like it's a big deal.

C: Yeah. And yeah, I think that in an industry where there's a high rate of violence against the employees, like, you would not put a room 44. You're not risking that shit.

They break in. There is a guy, and he is young, and he is having sex with two women, and they are both Asian.

G: Yeah, there's like, a part where, like, only one girl is above the sheet, and then the other woman comes out, and Dean is like, "Ooh." Ah! [C: Yeah.] Horrible. And they're both Asian! [laughs] Both Asian!

C: [laughs] Yeah. And they're both Asian. Ugh. [G laughing]

G: I mean, I don't know how we're going to talk about this. We have said everything that needs to be said.

C: Yeah, we said it already in "Tall Tales," I think.

G: Yeah, one of our most watched- one of our most listened to episodes, that one, I think. [C: Yeah.] If you only listen to us because we're both Asian, that is hilarious to me. [both laugh] So like, yeah, okay.

C: Yeah. Yeah. We really do not provide that much- we did a little bit of research for one episode and then we went back to like, doing nothing forever. [both laugh] Yeah. But yeah. I don't know. There isn't much to say that hasn't already been said. Like, he did come to this place specifically because he wanted to sleep with Asian women, and he is a white man and his wife is a white woman, and yeah. I don't know. I wonder what's going on there psychologically. Nothing good. [laughs]

G: Yeah, and Dean is very amused by all this 'cause he also has an Asian fetish!

C: Yep. Yep.

G: I'm- Ugh. Yeah. Well. But yeah, there's like, a zoom-in on the guy's tattoo, which is, I was like, "Robert Singer, I see you."

C: Yeah. So Sam notices this and realizes, "Oh this is like, the guy that we're looking for, even though he's young" and he proves that it's the guy by pulling his ID out of his wallet.

G: "Do you know Mr. Whitlow? Oh, you don't? That's strange, [overlapping] because you're carrying his wallet!"

C: That was Sam practicing his poker skills. That was him thespianing it up.

G: We need to put Sam in the theater! Who would Sam play? Who would Sam play?

C: I don't know. I mean, we already know that he was tree number two in Our Town.

G: He literally should play Don John! We've said this before! [laughs]

C: Oh! I mean, yes. [G: Of course.] But, well, Sam is Don John in Super Ado About Natural. I don't know if him being Don John means he would be best at playing Don John, you know what I mean? [G: This is true.] I feel like he needs to play a role that he's like, having fun in. I feel like if it hits too close to home, he might not be able to get into it.

G: Well, what role would he have fun in?

C: Tree number two in Our Town, [laughs] but-

G: You know, I think he could play Curly. Why not? [C: Huh.] [laughing] I have a very limited repertoire of like, stage stuff that I know.

C: Can Sam sing?

G: Yeah, why not? I think people would be like, "It's so sweet that they're letting him sing on stage [both laughing] even though he's bad at it!"

C: I think- Okay. I think Sam could play Curly in just like, an absolutely ass production of Oklahoma! Yeah, I see it.

G: You know that that scene in When Harry Met Sally where they sing and Harry does that little dance?

C: [laughs] Sam should do it?

G: I think Sam should 100% do it. Like, his practice is singing along to the When Harry Met Sally version of "Surrey with the Fringe on Top."

C: Yeah, so Dean goes over to the bed and he pulls off the the sheets to look at the guy's dick but also to check for a birthmark that his wife said was somewhere, probably on his dick. Cliff asks the two women who were in there with him, "Could you give us some privacy?" and then there's a shot over at the two of them in a mirror, and then Dean winks at them, and I think he should die, probably, is what I think about that.

Also, just in case, like, people haven't listened to the "Tall Tales" episode or, like, just don't remember- 'cause I feel like we keep referring you back there, but like, not everyone's going to do that. I guess- I feel like sometimes, us being very vague about what we hate about scenes [G: Yeah.] where like, an Asian woman is portrayed in sexual light or where like, Dean is attracted to an Asian woman just makes it seem like, we're against people being attracted to Asian individuals or like, against Asian women doing sex work, and, like, that's not the case. I think what it comes down to. I think- Well, first, like, attraction to an Asian individual and like, an Asian fetish are different things, and like, Dean specifically- It's pretty clear that he has an Asian fetish, what with the Busty Asian Beauties subscription and everything. And the issues with Asian fetishes is just that I feel like it goes beyond being attracted to specific features. It's also like-

G: The idea, yeah.

C: - There's an idea of what an Asian woman is in your mind that's built off of, like, the US's contact with Asia which has been very, like, colonial, very war-based.

G: Yeah, it's about the perspective of the exotic, which is what a lot of Asian fetishization is based on. The othering.

C: Yeah like, there's an attraction to- yeah, to othering, to, like, the idea that they wouldn't be very good at English, or like, have timid personalities or things are like, a big part of it. Like, the desire for power over someone that you think comes from, like, them being Asian. And then, I think specifically with Asian women and sex work, like, I feel like it really just comes back to the Page Act for me where, you know, it was like the first law in the US that was like, barring immigration based off of race, and it was specifically to prevent Chinese women from entering the US because a lot of the Chinese women entering the US were, like, coming to do sex work, but, like, also, like, they did not care about that for any other nationality. It was the idea that Chinese women were uniquely immoral, uniquely dishonest, and like, having sex with a Chinese woman would, like, give you diseases [laughs] more than engaging in sex work with any other group of women. And, like, how the idea of Asian women and sex work has just been like, further bolstered by the Korean War and the Vietnam War. And it's just like, when you portray in, like, a TV show, an Asian woman doing sex work, there is that history that you have to contend with. And, like, you have to- in Supernatural, where very few Asian women are characters, very few have speaking roles, very few are portrayed as people, the prevalence of Asian women being sexualized and being associated with sex work is like, a problem. [G: Yeah.] And like, if these women had lines and personalities, like, I think I would let this episode individually pass, mostly. Also if Dean didn't do that fucking wink. But like, it would still be a problem for Supernatural as a whole. But like, because Supernatural as a whole does this, and because the women here don't have any lines, are just here to be naked briefly and for Dean to find hot briefly, like, it's bad for the episode and it's bad for the show. So I guess that that is our "ugh." That is where our "ugh"-ing comes from.

G: Yeah. So and yeah, you know how in 5.04 we were talking about how the ratio of sexualized Asian women in the show and how [C: Yeah.], I don't know, like, a lot of times when they have an Asian woman in the show, it always [C: Is for Dean to find hot.] either falls under a specific stereotype or for Dean to be attracted to in a specifically-because-she's-Asian way. And with Risa, actually, that's not particularly the case. [C: Yeah, that's not part of it, right.] But here, for example, like, it's so obviously the case. [C: Yeah. We're at Madame Liu's, yeah.] And also, because me and Crystal were talking about this episode, like, just by ourselves, prior, we were talking about Lia, and we were talking about how there was an implication of like, a sugar daddy situation with her first scene in the show. But the show went out of their way to portray her as separate from that, you know? And she's a white woman.

C: Yeah, when she shows up again, she's like, "Oh, there's more to me than meets the eye" or whatever [G: Yeah.], and she has an emotional arc.

G: And like, in this episode, she is the one who is given that liberty. I mean, obviously, it's a different situation, but it's the same issue I have with that woman from El Salvador who spoke Spanish in 5.05 where I was like, this is fine if it wasn't so obviously for a punchline. If they have literally any other person in the show who speaks, like, broken English with a Spanish accent or whatever for literally any other role or idea, and it's just part of the show that you have characters who are like this all the time- But because they made it intentionally that it was for this intention and it was, in a way, to make fun of her accent, that makes it offensive. It's about the general lack of diverse set of characters in the show, and then when they do have someone, it's specifically to point at that difference. That's what's frustrating. And yeah, obviously, this one has different layers because Dean is known to have an Asian fetish, but- [C: Sure is.] [laughs] I can't believe Dean is just known to have an Asian fetish! [C laughs] Like, I can just say that, and I'm completely right! Like, that's so- well, whatever.

C: It's horrible. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the way Dean is like, the trashy but lovable everyman character, and it's like, "You know, like, every red-blooded American man just has an Asian fetish" [G: Yeah.] seems to be what they're trying to say with this character. And it's like-

G: I hope not!

C: "Well, I hope that's not true." Ugh. Yeah, so the women leave after Cliff hands money to only one of them, and that's the last we see of them. He says, like, "Please don't tell my wife. She thinks I'm dead, and I just want that to continue." He was just going to stay here? Or I guess he would have left eventually. Whatever. Whatever. Cliff goes like, "Okay, like, the way that this happened, it was a game." [laughs] And Sam says, "Like Xbox?"

G: Just like me for real.

C: [laughs] I love him! I love him. He's so fucking funny.

G: He's like, "Just like Yakuza?" [laughs]

C: Literally. [laughs] Just like Yakuza. And Cliff goes, "What's Xbox?" And then he explains that it was a poker game where, instead of cash, you play for years. What he won was 25 years of his life. There was a guy who was dealing the chips, and he chanted something over them, and then it worked. He's young again. He says that, you know, his health issues have cleared up, and "one of those ladies was here for free!" which implies that he was so hot that one of the employees here just wanted to sleep with him, just of her own volition. [G: Which does happen.] Which, I mean, it's not impossible that's such a thing would happen, but yeah, it is- Yeah, I don't know. I think there is a specific pride and fantasy involved in, like, being so attractive or charming or whatever that, like, it becomes "real" with a sex worker, and I feel like sometimes, that kind of a fantasy can cause one to overstep boundaries in a situation where one is purchasing services, and, I don't know. It's kind of annoying to see it in this episode. The description of the guy who did this, his name is Patrick, he's about 35, he has brown hair and an Irish accent, which is wonderful! [laughs] It was great to hear it this episode.

G: Yeah. He has black hair, and I think it looks beautiful. I think I've never thought of Sam as having brown hair before, but like, put him beside Patrick, and it was like, Sam does have brown hair, and Patrick has dark brown hair. It's pretty nice!

C: Slay. So he moves around from bar to bar, and you don't find him, he finds you. They head out, [G: And Dean turns around.] but Dean lingers in the doorway. He stays there- the shot stays on him for so long, and I'm like, "What horrible thing is about to happen now?" [G laughs] And the horrible thing that happens is that after Sam has headed out- because Dean's like, ashamed to say this in front of him, I think, is he turns around, he tells Cliff, "Oh, and uh, stay classy." And it's like a moment of like, #solidarity [laughs] between Asian fetishists, I believe. And that is terrible. [laughs] So yeah. That's that scene.

G: We go to Sam and Dean. Dean's on the phone with Bobby, and he's relaying, you know, what happened to Bobby, and Bobby is like, "Oh yeah, there's lore regarding this, and like, you know, traveling card player. If you play him and you win, you get years back. And most folks lose." And like, it is fascinating to me that this is just one guy. Like, he's just been around so long. And I also do wonder like, why is he here in, apparently, Chicago, Illinois? I mean, when I first formulated that that question in my head, I was like, [C: In this random town.] "in this small town Americana," and then now it's like, "Well, he was in Chicago, Illinois, so I guess that's fine. Like, that is a big city."

C: Yeah, he listened to the Sufjan Stevens song, and he was like, "I gotta see this."

G: Exactly. Just like me. I don't know. Maybe one day, I'll go to Illinois [laughs] to be like, "Just like Sufjan Stevens!" [C: Exactly.] Yeah, maybe I'll go to Kansas too to be like, "Just like Dean Winchester," but that's super irrelevant. Bobby is asking, "Are they going to go to visit a bar?" Dean's like, "Yeah, we're going to split up." And Bobby's like, "Okay," and he hangs up, but before we leave Bobby, he gets keys [C: His car keys.] and he starts going. So yeah, Bobby is going to the fucking card player.

G: So Dean is in a bar. Him and Sam has split up. And Dean, apparently, has a lead, and so he starts asking the bartender about where Patrick is. And at first, the bartender wouldn't tell him, but eventually, he slides a $100 bill, and-

C: 100! [G: Yeah.] That wasn't, like, fake- that wasn't a fake $100. What? He actually gave him $100 cash?

G: Yeah, yeah.

C: Crazy. Inflation is wild! They were giving $20 bills to, like, sneak into morgues before this.

G: Yeah! And Sam scolded him for that, right? Like, he gave $40 and Sam was like, "What the fuck is wrong with you?" [both laugh] No, and the way- the thing Dean does, too, it's like, "Oh, my friend Ben told me," and the guy's like, "I don't know any Ben," and then he slides Benjamin- what the fuck- what the fuck is his first name? [C: Benjamin Franklin.] Yeah, Benjamin Franklin. He slides Benjamin Franklin, the $100 bill. [laughs] It's so corny, but it's super fun. He goes to, I don't know, behind the bar. And also, there's this weird scene where he's already walking, and then there's a voiceover of the bartender going, "Round back. Take the elevator down." [laughs] And, like, you know they added it because they forgot. Like, they were like, "That's so weird!" But like, it's not weird! Just don't put the voiceover!

C: Yeah, like, Dean just was told instructions and he's going. That makes sense to me.

G: And like, when they showed this, I was like, [laughs] "Crystal's gonna going to be so pissed about this fucking stupidass voiceover." As he's walking, Bobby is there, and Dean is shocked that Bobby is here. So Bobby was in Sioux Falls. We're back to Google Maps. Sioux Falls to Chicago. [C laughs] [C: Drive time.] It's all flights. All of them are flights. It's an 8 hour 40 minute drive.

C: Wait. [laughs] How did he get here?

G: [laughs] I have no idea. So it was it morning, and now it's evening?

C: He was definitely in his house.

G: He was definitely in Sioux Falls.

C: We saw him in his house. It's not like he was in Chicago earlier when he discovered the case. I mean, it is night now, but like, it wasn't- Was it that bright earlier today?

G: I mean, it could have been day.

C: I mean, bars are open late. It could be like, past midnight or whatever.

G: This is true, this is true. So it could be very late right now and very early a while ago. [C: Yeah, I believe it.] But yeah, Bobby bet on his years, and he lost, so now he is- [C laughs] There's this one scene where Bobby goes, "I lost!" and then we, like, do zoom-ins, I think, and we see, like, more crow's feet appear on Bobby's face. How old is Bobby right now?

C: Supposed to be? I don't know. I guess I should look up Jim Beaver's-

G: Well, not Jim Beaver. Bobby Singer! He was born in 1950.

C: Well, so was Jim Beaver. [G: Yeah.] Okay, so he's like, 59 now.

G: That's not- is that true?

C: 2009 minus 1950?

G: No no no, I know, but like, is it realistic?

C: I mean, it's Jim Beaver's age. What-?

G: [laughing] You're right, you're right.

C: Jim Beaver was born in the same year, [laughing] so, like, yeah, that is what a 59-year-old looks like. That's how old Jim Beaver was there.

G: [laughing] Because that's literally a 59-year-old. That's crazy. Well, I'm sorry for disrespecting you, Jim Beaver.

C: Okay, this injury happened less than a year ago. [G: Yeah.] Couldn't he have just, like, tried to win one year? Wouldn't that have done it? How-

G: Maybe, again, he kept on trying. Kept on-

C: Okay, sure, alright. That works, I guess. I don't know how poker goes at all, so this makes sense to me, I suppose.

G: Well, you can't have just one year because both of you are going to bet, so it's at least two years.

C: Oh, so both of you put a chip in? Okay.

G: Yeah. I think. I also know nothing about poker.

C: Okay, so like, he could have put, like, one chip in, and Patrick could have put like, 24? I have no idea what poker is or involves. Apparently, chips and cards.

G: No, it could be like, he put in 10 and then the other guy put in 15. So it's not 24-1.

C: He doesn't overdo it on what he puts in because he doesn't want to kill people.

G: This is true. Or is it? Well, maybe he just kept on playing and playing.

C: [laughs] He wanted to kill Dean.

G: He wanted to kill that guy.

C: I mean, no. Dean was the one who decided to play for 50. [G: Yeah.] That wasn't Patrick's urging.

G: Didn't Patrick warn too, like, "Don't do that."? [C: Yeah.] Or that was Sam. He was telling Sam, "That's a suicide mission." [C: Mm-hm.] Agh. Are they in wuv? [laughs]

C: They're in wuv. I think if Sam and Dean hadn't, like, had their talk in 5.05, and, like, Sam was still feeling, like, trodden upon in their partnership, he could have considered going with Patrick and learning a thing or two. I believe in this alternate universe.

G: I am less inclined to believe. [C: No?] But I see the vision.

C: Hm. I think it's like, I think Sam would deliberately lose a lot. I think- Okay, yeah, you're right. He's probably not in a place where he trusts his judgment enough to think that he could, like, mete out justice by taking years from people who won't miss them and giving them to people who would, but-

G: Not that at all. I just think Sam has a lot of prejudice against supernatural beings.

C: - witches at this point? [G: Yeah.] That's true. He has his "You know, for a witch, you're really nice" [laughs] line, so.

G: "You're really niceys!" Yeah.

C: Well, maybe if they'd had sex. [G: Exactly.] Yeah, oh, also, Dean tells Bobby, "Are you kidding me? You played some- some he-witch?" And this is a term that Dean will use a lot during this episode. [G: Yeah!] And, I don't know. Sera Gamble, your mind fascinates me. [laughs] Like, you can just say witch!

G: Yeah, a witch, or, I don't know. A wizard. [C: A warlock?] A warlock, exactly. Also, Bobby has his fair share of gendered comments [C laughs] that are specific misogyny-

C: Misogyny or weird misogyny-transphobia combos. [laughs] Yeah. [G: Yeah.]

G: Well, yeah, so we go to a bar, and yeah, Patrick is there. He's talking to two people. One, like, younger lady and an older man. And he's like, doing like, what Sam says is "armchair psychology" later. Every time I hear the word "armchair psychology" now, I think about that post that's like, "Armchair psychology is such a funny term because that's really where most psychology happens." [laughs] Like, it really is in the armchair, so, I don't know, guys. [C: True.] Yeah, he's doing, like, an analysis of character, blah blah blah. But Dean just like, holds onto him and goes, "Hey, excuse me for a second. Can I borrow you?" And Dean, like, moves his jacket to show his gun, and Patrick sees this and just goes, "Oh! Yeah, of course! Great, good to see you!"

C: He really is gun boy.

G: Yeah. Immediately, when he does that, I'm like, "I love this guy." I love Patrick. I think he's pretty great.

C: Yeah, he's pretty fun. Yeah, I feel like being shown a gun by, like, Dean Winchester really brings out the best in people. Like Chuck in "Monster at the End of This Book." He's also very fun when Dean flashes a gun at him.

G: They go out. They are in the poker table now, and Patrick is like, "Oh, don't worry that you cut me off. I still stole a watch from that guy." And he goes, "Look, I don't know what it is you think I did to your wife or girlfriend, mother or sister [C laughs], but I just want you to know, my feelings were real!" So like, what's the implication here? That he was sleeping around? [C: Yeah.] So true.

C: I mean, I think this is this is where the heteroflexible comes from, I think. [G: Ugh!] He does act pretty straight here, I fear.

G: No, I think it's just he assumes that if it's a guy, it's like, "The boyfriend won't be here. Every single gay guy is non-monogamous." [both laugh] That's not true! [C: That's not true.] That's his perspective, not mine! [C laughs] That's his perspective, not mine! [G laughs]

C: God. No, the things people will say. Like, in the latest Doctor Who episode, like-

G: [laughing] Did they say every gay man is non-monogamous?

C: The Doctor tells- No, like, he tells a cop, like, "Oh, like, your girlfriend's gonna say yes. Like, I can see the ring in your pocket. And I'm assuming that it's a girlfriend and not a boyfriend because 90% of men wouldn't want a diamond for an engagement ring," [laughs] and it's like, [laughing] what is- what are you saying? What is this? [G laughs] Like, I don't know. It's very fun when you decide to be inclusive by being very confusing and odd.

G: [laughs] Well, it's what I'm doing right now, exactly. Just like- I'm just like the Doctor for real. Dean raises his eyebrow at this comment, but he goes, "Well, that ain't my problem, man-witch." [C: Man-witch.] He's really obsessed with this turn of phrase. He-witch, man-witch.

C: Yeah, I don't know. He just feels- I feel like he just feels like something in his world is being challenged by a man being a witch. [G: Yeah.] Like, leave the guy alone, bro!

G: This is queercoding. [laughs] [C: Honestly.] Patrick is being queercoded right now.

C: Yeah, I mean it is the- Yeah, like, you think that Patrick is trans in some direction, or [G: No.] Dean's being like, "Bit gay that you're a man and a witch."

G: No, yeah, he's going, "Are you gay or a witch?" [laughs]

C: Well, 'cause it's established in "Malleus Maleficarum" that Dean like, hates witches more than he hates any other supernatural being, and we don't know why, exactly.

G: Yeah, and he is misogynistic. So having a witch not be a woman, it's like- it's breaking the glass ceiling, I suppose.

C: Yeah, he has to switch from like, "bitch" to "son of a bitch," and it's a big inconvenience for him. It's that kind of situation.

G: No, I do think there is an- I mean, Dean is a fucked up guy. I think there is an aspect of misogyny in his being a witch-hater specifically. [C: Yes.] Like, the way he's like, "Oh, these bitches."--because that is how he thinks of witches--is primarily, I think, a misogyny thing. [C: Yeah.] And so, yeah.

C: I think what he says in "Malleus Maleficarum" is he doesn't like, how, like, messy their spells are, like, with dead rabbits and shit. But like, I don't think that's all of it, bro. [G: Yeah.] Also, like, many monsters that you deal with leave a lot of gore in their wake, so.

G: Yeah. Well, yeah. Dean says that "No, it's my friend. He lost years, and you have to give them back." This whole time, by the way, Dean is being gun boy [C laughs] by having a gun below the table where they're talking. And, like, when he says, "Well unlose him," he cocks the gun so that it makes the cocking sound. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] And Patrick is like, "Well, you can shoot me if you like. I could use a little tickle."

C: [laughing] Yeah, you're right. He's bisexual. I take it back. [G laughs] [G: Literally.] He wants Dean to shoot his load into him!

G: Noo! [C: I-] You know, I am so fickle about the fucking, like, body fluids thing.

C: You really don't like talking about the ejaculation part of sex?

G: Yeah. [laughing] Yeah, exactly.

C: That's why you couldn't stand the exhaust pipes talk either.

G: Exactly! It's fine if he was fucking the exhaust pipe, he just can't come in it! [C laughs] Yeah! Basically, Patrick just goes, like, "Well, if you really want the years back, play me." And then Dean was like, "Okay, let's do it." And Bobby is also here now, and [laughs] yeah. Bobby is like, "Dean, you can't do it!" But Dean, who is pissed at Bobby, still, goes like, "I can do what I want. It's my years."

C: Yeah, which is what Bobby said earlier.

G: Yeah. But here, we find out that the buy-in is 25 years, so that's the initial number of chips, and then yeah, Dean goes, "Make it 50." And Patrick goes, "I like the cut of your jib." Well, you're about to like Sam's cut of his jib more. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] He does a little spell on the chips, and then, yeah, they go, whoosh-whoosh-whoosh, and [C: Real.] yeah, it's years now. And basically, Dean gives away the 25. He cashes out the 25. I have no idea how poker works, so I could be misusing every single turn of phrase right now.

C: Yeah, me neither. Can't help you.

G: So Bobby gets magicked back to being his usual age of 59 years old, so the the 25 years is on him now. And so he has to play the other 25 to get him back to his normal age, and so they play. And, well, guess what? Dean loses. [C: Hell yeah.] Hell yeah! We don't actually see it. We don't- like, the only poker game we actually see in full, pretty much, is Sam's. Like, Sam is the only one we see actually play.

C: Sam was the only one who got to finish. So.

G: Boo!

C: Ha.

G: Sam Winchester enters the motel, and in there, he sees Dean Winchester, who is 50 years older. [laughs] And in this podcast, you are now listening to me and Crystal, who are both respectively two weeks older. I don't know why I said "respectively." We are both two weeks older. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] It's been two weeks since the last part of this podcast!

C: Since our last recording. Like, we did half of it, and then things kept coming up in the middle of our recordings, [G: Exactly.] so yeah, it's been two weeks. I don't remember a single thing about this episode. I think we were mad about it, like, two weeks ago, so [G: Perhaps so.] I guess I should recreate that emotion by remembering that Dean Winchester exists. I haven't had to look at Dean Winchester's face for two weeks because we haven't watched any new episodes in the time in between either, and it's been like, a truly wonderful time. [G laughs] But anyway. [laughs]

G: I've been thinking a lot about Season 11 is what I've been doing, so-

C: Didn't you watch 11.01 on your birthday?

G: No! Because- [C: No?] By the way, my birthday was yesterday, and instead of watching 11.01 like I planned on doing on my birthday, because I'm a loser-

C: Why? What happens in 11.01?

G: I instead went out and [laughs] had a wonderful time with my family and friends, so. [C: Boo!] [C laughing] That was horrible. I should not have done that. [C: Loser behavior.] I should have instead sat down in my room and watched Season 11 by myself.

C: Yeah, that should always be your first priority. What even happens in Season 11? Amara?

G: Yeah, Amara, and, like, Casifer. And "Baby" happens in Season 11.

C: Why did you want to watch Season 11? On your birthday?

G: Because I have many feelings about that season. No, I was just like- It wasn't like I planned it on my birthday. [laughs] I was just like, [C laughs] "Ah, I'm gonna watch Season 11 tomorrow. Oh my god, it's also my birthday!" So. It's a wonderful season. Or is it? I think it made me so miserable when I watch it, which is why I want to watch it again. [C: Okay, great.] Happy birthday! [laughs]

C: Yeah, so Dean's old, and he's not being played by Jensen Ackles in makeup or Jensen Ackles in CGI. He's being played by a completely different person who I don't know the name of.

G: Yeah, do you think he's well-acted here? Who do you think? What are your opinions? What are your thoughts? Tell us about it.

C: Mm... I couldn't tell how much of my "That's not Dean" vibes are like, because of the acting or just because he, like, doesn't look like older Dean. It's hard for me to tell.

G: I think he does look like older Dean. [C: Really?] Yeah, but mostly because you have to suspend your disbelief with old people. Old people look nothing like how you think they look when they were younger, [C: Fair.] and so I would presume young people look nothing like you think they would when they look older, so.

C: Okay, sure, that makes sense to me. [G: Or does it?] I think the acting- he's just- I feel like he says things slower.

G: I think- Here's the thing. [C: Yeah.] Having Dean be an old man, specifically, like, our conception of like, a dirty old man with the flirting with the maid later and everything, like, reveals so much of what makes Dean Winchester, like= What are the things that make him endearing and annoying? Like, if you list them down, you would realize through this episode that a lot of the reason why- well, I and many people think that he's endearing is because he's an attractive young man, and that's probably literally it. [laughs]

C: Wait, what do you find endearing about him?

G: No no no, I mean, like, a lot of the things that Dean does are annoying [C: Yes.], but it is less biting to see because he's just- he's charismatic and young.

C: Really? I think he was less annoying when he was old.

G: No, I mean, just his actions if you transpose them to someone who is less desirable, society-wise, would make you go, "Oh, I see why people don't like this guy." [C: Okay. Well.] So yeah, I'm a shallow person.

C: [overlapping] [laughing] Congratulations on realizing that you're shallow.

G: [laughs] Exactly. No, I just mean, like, even the way the show reacts to it, you know? Like, the flirting with the maid. [C: Yeah.] I think regular Dean, it would be like, "Oh, haha!" But because he's an old guy, it's annoying. But I mean, I understand, too, though, whatever!

C: I don't think it's being portrayed as- Wait. Okay, you think the show is trying to show that Dean is annoying?

G: Or that he's like, you know, that his flirtation is out of place, etc etc.

C: Really? [G: Yeah.] I just saw it as like a "This would normally work, but it doesn't, 'cause he's uggo." I didn't see it as a comment on the appropriateness of the action in any way.

G: Ahh. I don't know.

C: The joke is just that, like, it doesn't work anymore [both] because he's old. Like, that's the extent of what they're trying to say.

G: Yeah, I suppose. I think it's just like, "What does the imagery of this kind of blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah?" [laughs]

C: What? [both laughing]

G: It's so hot! If everyone can hear me fanning myself, like, this sound [air movement sounds], if you can hear that throughout the recording, it's because it's so hot. [laughs]

C: Okay, yeah, you should probably tell us the number of degrees it is in your room, and then everyone can sort of add that as a qualifier to [laughs] how much they'll judge you or not judge you for the things you say today.

G: Celsius... Let's see, "temperature [typing], redacted place that is my city [C laughs], right now." It's probably not even that hot, Celsius-wise. It says it's 31°C, which in Fahrenheit is 88°F. [laughs] And it's 9AM, so it's gonna get hotter.

C: Kind of bad. It's pretty bad. [G: Yeah.] I wouldn't enjoy being in that weather. And your A/C doesn't work.

G: Yeah. Aziraphale and Crowley are not talking, in fact. Why does it say, like, "Real weather" and then "feels like." What's that about?

C: Like, humidity can cause more heat to be trapped in the air, so then, like, it feels hotter than, like, the temperature? I don't know. It's a thing. It's also like, when it's like, windy, it, like, feels like a colder temperature because of wind chill.

G: Yeah. But how would you know that if every temperature feels like something else? [laughs] [C: I don't know.]They should be Jessica in the fucking swimming pool.

C: I think there's some way that- they're they're probably, like, incorporating movement or density of air into this thing. [G: Ugh.] I'm sure there's a scientific method, yeah.

G: Apparently, it feels like 36°C right now, so that's kinda horrible! Whatever. It's so hot.

C: Which- Okay, yeah, let me- Oh my god. That's too high.

G: Yeah, at the morning, too! Like, it's the morning! Everybody shut the fuck up. And if I say "blah blah blah," everybody should forgive me. [both laugh]

C: Just like Aziraphale.

G: Just like Aziraphale. [C laughs] Well, whatever. I don't know. I was just like- 'Cause I always think that Dean is an endearing guy, but- Not always. That's a lie. [C laughs] I think sometimes, Dean is an endearing guy, but a lot of that must come from, like, being like- giving him the benefit of the doubt. And a lot of the benefit of the doubt must surely come from "he is being played by an attractive man."

C: Okay, well, you just said a lot of unrelatable sentences, [G: Exactly.] [laughs] so I don't know how to respond to that.

G: It's why I kept on saying "me and other people"! [C: Yeah.] It's me and other people! It's not you and yourself. [laughs]

C: Well, thank you for sharing your perspective, Grey. [G laughs] This is a safe space. I found him less annoying when he was old because he seems easier to fight off. [G: True.] So I guess tells you you need to know about how I feel.

G: And he does. They do try to be like, "Haha! It's so funny that Dean can't climb the stairs." And Dean is like, very pissy about it, which is like, I don't know. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] And I did think, honestly, when Bobby- when he was like, fighting with Bobby in the graveyard, I thought that was hilarious.

C: It was pretty fun, yeah.

G: I think she said something incredibly insensitive to Bobby. [laughs] And I was like, "That's so true." [C laughs]

C: Okay. I don't remember what this is due to I remember nothing about the episode. We'll find out. [G: Yeah.] Anyway, so Sam sees this old man, who is a stranger to him for now, and freaks out. Like, raises his gun at him. But Sam realizes that this is Dean, which is nice, I guess, that they recognize each other. Or, I guess, just Sam recognizes Dean [laughs] 'cause nothing's happened to Sam. [G laughs] And-

G: Well, Dean's eyesight was bad, so [C: That's true!] he probably is like, "My god! That's what you look like blurry?"

C: Sam says that Dean looks like Emperor Palpatine. I've never watched a single Star War. [G: Yeah.] That's from Star Wars, right?

G: Yeah. He's the one who, for some reason, Palpatine returned. [C: - who somehow returned, yeah.] [laughs] So iconic, yeah.

C: Yeah. Bobby calls him John McCain.

G: Bobby literally- Dean literally is Bobby's favorite, like, I can't believe this.

C: Wait. Who's- Wait, like, why is him calling him John McCain favorite?

G: I don't- Wait, John McCain is a senator, apparently! I thought he was an actor who played somebody-

C: No. No, he's a Republican senator.

G: There's like, a guy named McCain! There's a guy named McCain who's an actor!

C: Um, [laughs] you're not talking about Steve McQueen, are you? [G laughs]

G: I, all this time, thought this was like, a cowboy actor or whatever. So I was like, "Bobby's complimenting Dean." Apparently, he's talking about a Republican senator who I will not make a comment on the appearance off, because I'm not a shallow person, Crystal. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, I mean, doesn't Bobby have a dog named after, like, a different Republican politician? Like, Rumfield or something?

G: We have had this- Yeah, we have commented on it, yeah, I think. [C: Yeah.] This is so- "John McCain. Biography. Vietnam experience. [C laughs] Political" blah blah blah. I don't- Vietnam was a draft, right? So we shouldn't make fun of all Vietnam [laughs] people who fought there. Or should we?

C: People did dodge the draft. I mean-

G: Yeah, Bruce Springsteen dodged the draft!

C: I mean, Trump was under fire for making fun of McCain for being a prisoner of war, so I don't- [G laughs] that's all I really know about his Vietnam experience. Anyway, Dean and Bobby have a bit of an argument about how this is Bobby's fault, but also Dean's fault. And Sam has absolutely no sympathy [laughs] for Dean, like, being 50 years older now, so maybe it's fine that Dean didn't care that Sam's Lucifer's vessel. Maybe they just don't care about each other, [G laughs] fundamentally.

G: Sam literally DGAF. [C: He just thinks it's funny.] I mean, to be fair, he did do that giant bet that he did. Like, he almost blah blah- But you know what? It was fun to realize- because when Sam went in to do the card game, I thought that he-

C: Oh, that it was for real for real. Same.

G: Yeah. And he was doing it for Dean and Bobby, and blah blah blah. But apparently, it was part of the trick, and I was like, "Wow, he's double bluffing not only the guy, but also me!"

C: Yeah, this is true. Yeah. So Sam just thinks it's hilarious that Dean went to the witch that makes you old. [G laughs]

G: Dean is still like, bitter with Bobby about it.

C: Yeah. About just getting them into this situation. Bobby says, "You just don't get it." Dean says, like, "Well, I can relate. Like, you just wanted to, like, not need to be in a wheelchair anymore, I can imagine." [G laughing] And Bobby says, "No, you can't."

G: [laughing] And Dean says-

C: And then Dean goes, "You're right. I've never been paralyzed. But I've been to Hell. [G laughing] And also, there's an archangel there wanting me to drop the soap," which is not-

G: Oh, yeah, this is a line made me miserable when I first watched it. But when he was like, "I've been to Hell," I was like, "My god! That's so funny that he is making- he is bringing this up." [C: Yeah.] You know, Dean Winchester can literally just be like, "Well, I did go to Hell" about literally anything, and he would probably be right. He did go to Hell. [C: Yeah.]

But yeah, the drop the soap line did make me miserable.

C: Yeah, I'm just like- How long are we gonna have drop the soap lines in Supernatural? Like, there's some point when they stop, right?

G: Well, I'm not sure. It's not something that I, well, one, knew the context of for the longest time, so [C: Makes sense.] it's not something I took into consideration.

C: But yeah. He says- it's like, in an earlier season as well. But yeah. [G: Yeah.] Very, yeah, okay. And then he also complains that his junk is rustier than Bobby's, so [laughs] anyway. So Dean's eating a burger, and then he thinks he's having a heart attack, but it's actually acid reflux.

G: Wait. Why did it make you- why were you upset with the line? I was upset with the line because of the, like, you know, Dean's awareness of- Because, like, prior to this, it is very visible to us that like, possession is a metaphor for sex, and so, like, Dean being convinced to say yes to Lucifer. Like, obviously, and the word "consent" is brought up a lot, so blah blah blah. [C: Yeah, that's true.] Is that also- Or you just do not like that it's "drop the soap"?

C: I just think it's a phrase we need to retire. [laughs] But yeah, you're right that it makes sense in this context, given, like, what they are trying to do with possession and consent. [G: Yeah.] But yeah, anyway, the acid reflux thing starts, like, a thing throughout the episode where Dean experiences being old.

G: Yeah, and being in my body, pretty much. [C: Yeah.] You can have acid reflux at a young age. This is an accepting space for everyone who has acid reflux in their 20s. [laughing]

C: So true. Also, the whole, like, Dean experiencing being old thing is supposed to later be, like, a way that he can relate to Bobby's disability more, right? [G laughs] Like, they're trying to do that?

G: I mean, I'm not sure what they're trying to do.

C: I think, in a later conversation, it is sort of-

G: You think so?

C: Yeah, I guess we could talk about it when that happens. [G: Yeah, yeah.] So they discuss the case, and they think that it's the poker chips themselves that are magic.

G: It's kind of stupid that they think it's the poker chips, I feel like.

C: Yeah, given that they know he's a witch, so it's like, he can just do magic.

G: Yeah, I thought that was so contrived, and, I don't know. I always thought that that was like, a trick that they were doing or whatever. But obviously not. I don't know. It's just- I feel like they should be smarter than this. Like, they've been hunters for so long. Bobby, specifically. And Bobby's smart with this thing, Sam's smart with this thing. Dean, also. I don't know why I excluded him. But yeah. [C laughs] Like, they're hunters, is what I'm saying, and they've had experiences with these things. They should know that it's not the fucking chips. But I suppose they need to lengthen this episode somehow, and also do the things that they do and get Sam to have an STD.

C: So they decided that they are gonna head out to find the chips, and if Dean just takes 50 of them, he'll be young again or whatever. And then [sighs], there's a knock on the door, and there is a maid there, and she is Asian, [G: Hell yeah!] and also pretty, and things. So you, of course, know what is to happen next. Which is, you know, she asks if they're ready for housekeeping, and Dean does, like, a lean on the doorframe thing, and, like, does, like, a flirty smile thing or whatever [G: "Born ready," yeah.] and goes, "Born ready." But due to how he is old, she does not want to fuck him.

G: [laughing] She says, "You're just like my grandfather. He hits on everything that moves, too." Which is, I think, a way to put someone in place. [C: Yes.] Like, I was like, "Well, that's a way to do it."

C: Yeah, sure is. And she also says, "You're adorable!" And Dean goes, "And dangerous!" and he looks very hurt, and the maid just goes, [both] "Aww."

G: Iconic. I mean, the girl, iconic, for what she is, but also, like, the show is terrible. Let's- I mean, but it is always. So that's just how it is.

C: Yeah, I mean, the show is terrible. Yeah, the maid is iconic in that- I don't know. I think that all of the scenes where it's like, a woman rejects Sam or Dean in, like, a sassy way, like, I don't- like, this is like, a scary situation given that, like, you're in the doorway to a motel room.

G: She's about to enter the room.

C: Yeah, like, and you're working so, like, you have to put on, like, some level of politeness or whatever. Like, you do, have to be very strategic about how you deal with customers perving on you, and, like-

G: She's also, like- I think it's also the implication that if it was Dean in his regular age-

C: Yeah, she'd just fuck him.

G: - she'd be like, "Oh my god, I'm into you!" but because he's old, and that's why this is bad. And it's like, well, I don't know. [C: It's just bad in general.] This is like, what I was trying to say earlier, that [laughs] hitting on somebody working is inappropriate. But because Dean is usually in the form of an attractive young man, it's like, "It's fine!" And I think, like, last episode, right, Dean was flirting with a nurse, and I was like, "Flirting doesn't count as harassment." [laughs] [C: Yeah.] But like, I don't know, I think maybe the nurse is different.

C: [laughing] You're saying if he was old in that one, then you wouldn't consider it harassment?

G: No. [laughing] No! [C laughs] No, but like, what I mean is like, the way this show interfaces with it is like, whatever. Although I would still stand my ground that the nursing isn't harassment, because Dean isn't the patient or the- Well, then, that would be different. [C: Yeah, that's also different.] But it's not a service worker in the way that this maid is, so, yeah.

C: Yeah, I understand what you mean. But okay, wait wait wait. You had a main idea. Your main idea was that they're portraying the flirting behavior here as strange, whereas before they would portray it as normal.

G: No, the flirting behavior is normal for Dean Winchester, but the reaction is like- I don't know. I truly have no idea what I'm trying to say.

C: God, I can't believe Dean did that in front of Sam and Bobby. Like, usually, he's like, in a bar, like, several tables away, right?

G: I think this is like, a posturing thing, also.

C: They're in the room they would have had sex in. What? He would have told them to get out? Like, what?

G: I mean, if this is Dean, regular age, I don't think he would have done this. I think he would have, like- But I don't know. But like, the thing is, this is like, posturing that, like, "Yeah, I look old. But, just so you know, I still have it in me!" And then that's like-

C: No, but I think the point is that Dean doesn't remember [G: Forgot.] that because he's old, people are gonna react to him differently. 'Cause he's like, very surprised when she doesn't react to him as he's used to.

G: I don't know. Supernatural. Who wrote this fucking episode?

C: Sera Gamble and Jenny Klein.

G: Sera Gamble, my enemy. Yeah, Jenny Klein, unsure of her enemy status. [C laughs] But yeah, I think maybe they just did not consider it that way. They were just like, "We need to have Dean flirt with someone."

C: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just like, "It's funny that now that he's not hot, people don't wanna fuck him anymore." That's it.

G: Oh! So Sam, Dean, and Bobby are seating in a van, like, Bobby's van. And they're like, spying on the place or whatever. And Patrick comes out of a building. [laughs] This is actually a very fun scene. So he is like, you know, wandering around on the street, and then he's checking his watch, and he goes, "Ah, it's time!" And he crosses the street, when suddenly, this car that is, I think, a fancy sports car or whatnot, hits him, and it, like, [laughs] literally just slams right into him, and he's dead on the floor. And I was surprised when this happened, and so is Sam, Dean, and Bobby. Like, it was pretty funny to see their faces be like, "Huh? What the fuck?" But yeah, the driver comes down and is like, trying to assess the situation, when suddenly, we see that Patrick is in the car. [C: Yeah.] And he's driving away with the fancy car. [C laughs] And when, you know, when Dean, Bobby, and Sam realizes this, Dean goes like, "Well. I mean, I kind of like the guy," which, honestly, we all do kind of like the guy, Dean. You're not special. Especially Sam Winchester. Well, and then Sam and Dean, like, go to a building where Patrick is, and Bobby can't go in because it's inaccessible, the building. The elevator is also out. Sam and Dean have to climb up the stairs. And there's this bit where Dean is climbing up the stairs, and he's like, doing the old man climbing up the stairs thing, and Sam is waiting for him in the landing, and then Sam just looks at him, looks to the side, and points to the number 2 on the wall, that it's the second floor. And there's a zoom, and I was like, "Bobby Singer, I am in you."

C: What?

G: [laughs] No, it's "I'm onto you." [both laugh] Bobby Singer, I'm onto you, and I literally am.

C: Does Robert Singer go by Bobby?

G: His- Wait. [C laughs] Yeah, I suppose he does, because everybody is like, "Bobby is named after Robert Singer."

C: Yeah, no, but like, they could have just changed his- like, Robert Singer might just go by "Robert Singer" in his life, but they took inspiration from him for character names but didn't want to, like, take [G: His name.] the most iteration of it.

G: Okay. Well, Robert Singer, I am onto you. Okay, is that fine? [both laughing]

C: Yeah. Yeah. [G: God.] It's like- it feels like, 97°F, where you are, it's okay.

G: And then, yeah, they end up in a room. They go in, and they end up in a- dial? No, not a dial. A safe with a dial. And Dean is like, "Agh, this is so easy to do," and he starts doing it, but because his eyes are fuzzy and not clear-

C: They couldn't like, get him some glasses?

G: It depends. You can't just get glasses if you have astigmatism, so. If it's just a farsighted/nearsighted thing that you can get glasses immediately at the store. Sam eventually is like, "Dude, just let me fucking do it." And he does. But then, as they're grabbing the chips, Lia, who is the girl from earlier who was talking with the older guy- who is with the older man- comes in.

C: And she is wearing Supernatural's classic black dress for evil women.

G: Yeah! [both laugh] She's wearing her evil woman black dress outfit. And yeah. It is so annoying that they do this. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] Season 11 comes out, Amara is wearing this! [C laughs] Like, what? [C: It's so funny.] To be fair, they do put Amara in Harry Styles suits afterwards, so, good for her. [C: Thank god.] Yeah, she is here, and she is a witch, and as she was like, attacking them with her witchy powers, Patrick comes in and we realize that they're dating and that they're together. Patrick tells Sam and Dean that, like, "You can just get the chips if you want. It don't matter." And he also reveals that he's a 900-year-old witch. Very fun! [C: Yeah. Good for him.] And he says, "If you wanna win them, well, win them the old-fashioned way. Texas Hold 'Em." And I do always find fascinating the episodes where Sam and Dean don't beat or kill or eradicate the monster. It's always interesting when they do it. [laughs] Like in "Bugs" when they just ran away. I mean, "Bugs" had many issues, problems, disorders of its own. But that was the first one, I think, where it's like, [laughs] "We can't solve it. Like, let's just go away." And, I don't know. When else have they done it? Do you have a recollection?

C: I don't remember.

G: I've forgotten, but I'm sure they've done it again. But this one, too. Like, at the end of this episode, Patrick is not dead or stopped from doing what he's doing. [C: Yeah.] He's just- like, you really can't beat him other than Texas Hold 'Em. And I think that is a fascinating thing to do.

C: I mean, they can beat him, though. They knew how to do the spell. [G: They just didn't?] They just gave it up as soon as Dean was, like, safe.

G: Yeah. This is true. You're right. They just DGAF.

C: I thought that they were trying to kill him because they thought that, like, his whole game thing was causing more harm than good or whatever, but no, it was just to save Dean's life. Like, he literally could- He picked up the wineglass with Patrick's DNA on it, but then he turned young, and he just left the wineglass there and, like, left the apartment, and was like, "I don't care anymore." Pretty strange.

G: It's because they're trying to do Patrick/Sam endgame at some point, so they can kill him today. [C laughing]

C: Yeah. Yeah. Sera Gamble was leaving one of her sick fantasies on the shelf for later. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. Sorry that that was said about Sera Gamble.

C: It wasn't even about Sam being bi, it was about something else. And she probably does have sick fantasies. [G laughs]

G: Dean was like, "Okay, fine. Let's play." But Patrick says, "Well, your eyesight is so bad. What number is this card. See? You can't even see it! I'm not a murderer." But he's like, "Sam. How about you, though? Do you wanna play with me, Sam? [C: Yeah! Sam!] Sam, do you wanna play? [C: Sam?] [both] Hey, Sam?" [C laughs] But yeah, Dean was like, "No, don't do it, Sam." because apparently Sam is not that much of a player or whatever. But Patrick is like, "Okay, fine. Do your own thing." And he's like, but before you go, Dean, you are being punished already by your life in and of itself. But, Sam, I need to give you something just for the fun. And then he claps three times and gives Sam the clap, so.

C: And that was gay sex! [G laughs]

G: Well, yeah. Have safe sex, everybody, or whatever.

C: Yeah. [both laughing] So true. God. And he's gonna have genital herpes in "Changing Channels."

G: Literally! That's like, next episode.

C: Season 5 really is the Sam STD, like, season. Good for him.

G: Yeah. So like, we realize that it's the clap, because as they're going down, Sam is like, "Um, I'm so uncomfortable." And he keeps on, like, moving around his thighs and stuff, and Dean is like, "Well. You have the clap, bro."

C: They're going back to the motel. Like, Bobby, has some difficulty getting up a slope. And, right. So Sam is still saying that he wants to try playing the game, but Dean and Bobby both say that, like, "No, you can't, and you're way worse of a player than either of us." Bobby wants to go again because he thinks he understands Patrick psychologically, or whatever, but Sam says, like, "No, you'll die if you lose, Bobby." And then Bobby goes, [G: Yeah.] "So what if I do? What exactly am I living for? The damn Apocalypse? Watching men die bloody while I sit in this chair, can't take a step to help 'em?" which isn't true already, due to how he sent them on cases and things, but, like, whatever. Like, obviously, what he's saying is like, wrong, and just because of, like, his situation, and they do say that later

G: Yeah. I do feel for Bobby because the Apocalypse. I think we've talked about it, like, in his first episode or whatnot that like, that is- that seems to be, like, a big part, or even the most major of his concern. [C: Yeah.] That, like, it's truly the fucking apocalypse. [C: Yeah.] And this is like, an additional big problem on top of that already for him. And it's like, yeah, sorry, Bobby.

C: He says that he's "old" and "broke down." And he says, "I ain't a hunter no more. I'm useless, and if I wasn't such a coward I'd have stuck a gun in my mouth the day I got home from the hospital." And everyone's just quiet, 'cause, I mean, I guess it is hard to come up with a good thing to say in this situation, but at least they get to it by the end of the episode.

G: Yeah. By making Sam leave the room. [laughs]

C: By making Sam leave the room. Sam just says, like, "No, you're not playing again. There has to be another way out of this, and I will find it." When they go back inside the motel, Lia is just [both] there.

G: She's just hanging out!

C: And she gives them a piece of paper that is apparently a powerful reversal spell that's gonna undo all of Patrick's work for everyone he's played who's still alive. She confirms that if the spell goes through, like, both she and Patrick will die. And Bobby's like, "Well, why would you want us to succeed with this?" And she goes, "I have my reasons," and looks meaningfully down at, like, this necklace that she has.

G: It's so corny.

C: It's really fucking corny. There's like, multiple times during the episode where she just looks meaningfully down at her necklace. Like, okay. Like, I think, is it like- Does Sera Gamble think it's like, a hashtag big reveal that it's like, her child's picture [G: Her child dying?] in there, not, like, a love interest or something? Is that what the point is?

G: I don't even know what the fuck they're trying to reveal. I truly have no idea.

C: Yeah, it's just corny as fuck [laughs] is what I think. And I thought it was either a child or a partner, like, of equal probability, so Sera Gamble didn't subvert anything for me. [G laughs]

G: It should have been, like, a picture of Sam and Dean in there. [both laughing] And it's like-C: What? Why?

G: Why? That's a subversion. [C, laughing: Yeah.] Like, maybe she has been watching over Sam and Dean all her witchy life, and she's like, "These are my children, [both laugh] and I shall protect them." And that's a subversion. Who'd have thunk?

C: [laughing] Sure, I mean it would be quite bad, but it would be a subversion.

G: It will be one of the more horrible things done in Supernatural, which is saying truly a lot.

C: Yeah, like, they would have named this one "Jump the Shark." [G laughing]

G: Exactly. What if it was Adam in the locket? [both laugh] Like, what is this?

C: What if? What if. And she says that they have to do it fast because she and Patrick leave town tomorrow, so I guess there's some kind of a distance thing on this. And then she goes- Oh, also, an important, important costume designer thing is that now she's wearing, like, a jacket over her evil woman in Supernatural black dress. So now she's like, a normal, nice woman, because she's not just wearing the evil black dress, and that's [G: Yeah.] what you call ingenious costume design. [laughs] Very subtle way to indicate changes in character.

G: Like, when Sam says you're nice for a witch, it was for no other reason than the fucking jacket.

C: [laughing] Yeah, that she was wearing a jacket over the evil dress. [G: Exactly.]

G: Well, Sam goes to Patrick. Yee! [both laugh] And Patrick is playing a card game with some old man, and I think we are made to believe that he loses on purpose when he folds, [C: Yeah.] except I know absolutely not a fucking thing about poker, so I don't know. Eventually, he's like, "See? You're 13 years up. Like, why don't you just cash it in, call it a day?" And then the guy, Hesh, is very happy about this. It's like, "Oh, thank you!" And he's an old man, so he's probably gonna be what, like, 60 now instead of 73 or something. And yeah, Patrick is like, "See? Hesh is gonna see his granddaughter's Bat Mitzvah. Like, isn't that so wonderful, Sam? See? I'm just a good guy! [C laughs] I'm just a cool, good guy!" [C laughs] And yeah, even-

C: "Sam, do you like me now? Sam, was that hot of me? Do you like me?"

G: Yeah. Specifically, Sam says, "That was nice of you," and he goes, "I'm a nice guy." [laughs] It's probably not even that funny, like, when you watch it, but I think it's absolutely hilarious. [C: Indeed.] But eventually, Sam sits. They play and stuff.

Bobby and Dean are in a graveyard, and they have to look for a jawbone of a murderer. So Dean is shoveling, and he is very tired. He's complaining and complaining and complaining. And he's talking about his elbows and his knees or whatever. Yeah, Bobby's like, "One little grave, and you're so annoying about it," and Dean goes, "Then you do it!" And Bobby goes, "Fine. I'll hop right in." And Dean goes, "Well, at least your legs are numb!" They are pretty funny. I did think this was funny.

C: But this did happen, like, right after, Bobby said he's suicidal over his disability. [G laughs] Like, [laughs] maybe not the time, Dean.

G: [laughs] Maybe they should have reshuffled these fucking scenes, like. [C, laughing: Yeah.] I mean, to me it was like- I don't know. It's like, to bring levity to the situation. And then, because they do address it at the end of the episode. And in a way, it's like, Dean doing his usual comedy to whatever. Although I do think this is a little less like "he's trying to be funny on purpose" and he's just-

C: [laughing] I think he's just mad about his back hurting.

G: Yeah, no, like, because I do- Because you know how, like, throughout this episode, Dean has been, "Oh, well, how are you, Bobby? Like, are you okay, Bobby? How are you doing?" And that, I think, must be irritating for Bobby, who obviously doesn't really want to talk about how he really is. And so, having this instead of, like, Dean not being so careful with Bobby, I think there would be an aspect of it that is satisfying or gratifying, you know? [C: Yeah.] That like, "Dean is not seeing me as, like, some sensitive object that needs to be talked with so much care and consideration." Like, he can just go, "Oh, at least your legs are numb!" [laughs] [C: Yeah.] and it's like, there is an aspect of that that's a normalization of the situation. [C: Yeah, that's true.] I think. That's how I felt about it.

C: Yeah, but I don't think that Dean is thinking of that consciously, though. Like, he seems to just be reacting based off of being annoyed that his back hurts.

G: Well, I suppose so, but I'm sure there was that consideration when writing this, because that- I don't know. Was that not something that you thought of immediately when you were watching this?

C: No, I just think that when Supernatural wants to be funny, they, like, think that they're a different show. [G laughs] Do you know what I mean? [G: Yeah yeah yeah.] Like, they don't seem to, like, consider their jokes, like, part of serious canon, so it's just, like, a separate world for the writers.

G: Mm, okay. Well, it was my first immediate thought upon watching this, that that is what they're trying to do. [C: Yeah.] And it's not- from Dean's perspective, he's not doing it intentionally. I think you're right. It's just that from Bobby's perspective, that lack of intentionality can be, like, a better feeling. Yeah. [C: Yeah, agreed.] Yeah, [laughs] at some point, Bobby, like, diagnoses Dean with sciatica, and he's like, "You'll live. Just keep on fucking digging." And Dean goes, "You know what, Bobby? Killing you is officially on my bucket list." Yeah. They're- What's Sam say? "It's like Grumpy Old Men," and it literally probably is. I've not seen [C: Yeah, whatever that.] that show or movie or book, or whatever cultural thing it is. [both laugh] [C: Exactly.]

C: So Sam's playing his poker game. Patrick's chewing on the toothpick that he's always chewing on. He says, "I like you, Sam." [both laugh] So true! And he does.

G: And he literally does. Patrick/Sam endgame.

C: Yeah. And then he says, "I do," like, foreshadowing what he will say at their wedding in a few years.

G: Yeah. Their four-way wedding between Patrick, Sam, Rowena, and Eileen.

C: Exactly. Yeah, they're gonna legalize it. [G: Yeah.] It happens in the Supernatural universe. [G: Exactly.] And he says, "You're smart, and your heart's clearly in the right place," which he probably also says, as part of their custom vows. And Sam doesn't answer, but we'll work on it. He'll get there. [both laugh] Patrick says that he can tell a lot about people by looking at them. And Sam goes, "Oh my god, are you psychic? [both] Just like me for real! Are we connecting? Is this a date?" But Patrick says, "No, it's just intuition." And I do think it's nice that "smart" and "heart in the right place" are like, [G: His intuition on Sam, yeah.] the two big things about Sam here. Like, aww. Yeah. So they start playing, and Patrick asks if Dean knows that Sam is here, and Sam doesn't answer. He just plays. As they're doing the playing, Patrick is sort of trying to goad him, 'cause he's like, "Oh, I can't believe that, like, they're putting you at the kiddie table when you're cleaning up their mess." The situation is that Sam's playing, like, very carefully. [G: Yeah.] Like, he's only doing, like, 5 chips or whatever at a time.

G: He calls him a calculator player or something.

C: "Like he's playing the percentages," yeah. He's just trying to get Sam to bet bigger or something. They keep playing, and Sam keeps being cautious. And Lia comes in to make out with Patrick, I think, 'cause she's aware that it Sam's like, trying to get some Patrick DNA for the spell, or whatever. And Patrick wants to take a little break from the game.

G: They should have just made out, [laughs] and Sam went out and, like, spit in a bucket or something. [C laughing]

C: Real. So true. Yeah, no, that would be the way, but I don't know. They they weren't ready for it yet.

G: Yeah. It's the real Judas kiss.

C: Exactly. So during the break, Sam goes outside to consult with Dean for a bit, which is our reveal that like, "Oh, he's in on the plan. It wasn't, like, a big miscommunication thing." And that was fun. And yeah. So Dean, Bobby, have every ingredient of the spell, except for "a little he-witch DNA." And Sam hands over the toothpick that Patrick was supposedly chewing. And so he's gonna go back and keep playing the game to distract Patrick as they do all the burning the spell shit or whatever.

G: But, like, yeah. So Dean and Bobby do the spell, and every ingredient, like, flares up into a blue flame except the last one. And they were, like, "Oh, okay, well, that's it, then." But Dean doesn't change back, so RIP. [C: RIP.] So Sam and Patrick, back inside the bar. And Patrick is like, "I have a question. Is that is this what you meant to give your big brother?" And he like, takes out a toothpick of his jacket, I think, or maybe not. I've watched this episode two weeks ago. [both laugh] And yeah, it's like, "Oh, no, it's the wrong one!" But Patrick goes, "Well, the one you gave him never passed my lips, and I don't like cheating, Sam!" [C laughs] And then he- Sam, like, starts gasping for breath as Patrick chokes him out.

C: Yeah, he is! [laughs] No, he's dying for real. Sorry.

G: [laughing] He's dying for real for real. Love has become fake. Yeah, but Lia is like, "No, Patrick! It was me! Let him go!"

C: "And I have a photo of Sam and Dean in my necklace!" [G laughs]

G: Exactly! And yeah, Patrick is like, "Why would you do that?" And Lia opens her locket and reveals that she is secretly Mary Winchester. [both laughing] Yeah. But eventually- No, she just touches, apparently, her silver locket. [C: Yeah. Corny as fuck.] It's so stupid! Remove all the locket stuff, like, keep the lines, remove all the locket stuff, it's probably fine. [C: It still works.] It's probably fine. But it's just so corny like this. But eventually, Patrick is like, "Okay, well, let's keep on fucking playing." Yeah. But Sam and Dean- no. Bobby and Dean, trying to go up to the apartment, and yeah, they ought to get something that the guy has touched. Eventually, Patrick, like, says that he's gonna kill Dean or whatever.

C: Well, just that Dean's gonna die of old age.

G: Sooner than what he ought to? Or, like, he's just supposed to die right now?

C: [laughing] No, I think he was just gonna die of old age. I don't think Patrick sped it up. I think it's just, like, [G: He's 80, and that was it.] that was Dean's lifespan, like, [laughs] yeah.

G: Yeah. But eventually, Sam starts panicking. He's betting everything. All the things. And he looks panicky. He looks, you know, he looks it. But eventually, Patrick is like, "Oh, no, Sam, this is like, really bad that you're doing this, and, like, I don't know, there's poker, and then there's suicide."

C: Because he went all in.

G: Yeah, he put all his chips in. And then, eventually, it's revealed- Oh, by the way, Dean's dying, like, in a corner. [laughs]

C: Yeah, on the floor. This ain't about him.

G: [laughing] This is not about him. This is about Sam and Patrick. [C: Yes.] But yeah, eventually, Patrick is like, "Well, Sam, I'm sorry you lost. Here are my cards." And Sam breathes a sigh, and both Patrick and Lia are like, "It's because he lost! He's breathing a sigh of grief or whatever!" And Sam looks over at Lia and he goes, "You're crying." And, "For witch, you're so nice. It's actually kind of creepy. It's okay." And then he looks of Patrick, who is now, like, collecting the chips, and he's like, "Ah, you lost Sam." He goes, "It was a great hand. Just not as great as-" [C: Yeah!] And then he puts down his four fours. No idea what the fuck that means. But yeah, it's wonderful, I suppose. [C laughs] And he won. This is so stupid. We know nothing about poker. [C laughs] This is like later, when we know nothing about billiards. And I'm just gonna be like, "And Dean won, I suppose!" Patrick is like, "Wow, that's awfully great game that you did. Like, going out of your head. Very method!" And he goes, "Well, there's more to you than meets the eye." But Sam doesn't interact with that. He should have just like, "Yeah, of course there's more to me. Do you want to know, Patrick?"

C: Yeah. [laughs] "Do you wanna see the rest?" But yeah.

G: He DGAF. But he will in the future. Or will he not? They don't interact after this ever again.

C: Yeah, [laughs] Patrick doesn't come back.

G: Eventually, Bobby- who, oh, by the way, like, Bobby has been hearing all this time that, like, [laughs] Dean is dying on the phone, and then it goes quiet. And Bobby's like, "Dean! Dean! You're dead, Dean! [C laughs] Oh my god, Dean's dead!" But then, somebody comes out of the place, and it's Dean, and he's 30 again. He does the little jump that he does in every AMV where he's happy.

C: Yeah. And, as we mentioned before, when Dean was in the apartment, he had found a wineglass that Patrick's mouth had supposedly touched, but he's not carrying it when he comes down because they didn't want to do the spell to, like, help anybody else. They just wanted to do it to save Dean, and that's it.

G: Yeah. It's fine.

C: I think that is- I think they purposely show us, like, the guy, like, who won 13 years earlier, 'cause it's like, "Oh, no, if they reverse the spell, then he's gonna die!" So it's like, I guess it is the case that most of the people who lost have already died, so most of the people the spell would reverse would be, like, people who turned younger. So I'm not saying that they should have killed Patrick, but I they don't really interface with the fact that, like-

G: He's probably gonna kill people in the future.

C: Yeah. They should have had a discussion about first, like, the future people that be killed by Patrick's game, and also, if they decided not to kill him, then, they should have been like, "Most of the people who he made old, like, died already, and we don't want to hurt, like, that guy from earlier," and etc etc. So yeah, strange. Strange behavior. [G: Yeah.] And oh, last thing. Sam asks Patrick to cash all of the chips in for Dean.

G: Yeah. How's that-?

C: Couldn't he split them up? Bobby got injured, like, less than a year ago. Like, Dean can be, like, 28 or whatever. Or 30? How old is Dean?

G: He couldn't be 31 instead of 30.

C: Yeah, he could be 31. I feel like if you hear that Bobby's in this much distress, then, like, you can at least be like, "Can you hold for a second? I'm gonna ask Bobby if he wants this year." Whatever. I guess you can't split them up, or just the idea of Dean being 31 is just so horrible. Who knows?

G: Yeah. I mean, also, like, they are waiting for Bobby to- For Cr-oh-ley to show up. For Cr-ow-ley [C: Cr-ow-ley] to show up and have Bobby's legs be fixed by Crowley. I don't know. Like, perhaps they had that in mind, and they were like, "Okay, but how are we going to show that Bobby is experiencing emotional turmoil?" And they thought of this, and they didn't think of it further than that. [C: Yeah.] But they really could have just given Bobby the fucking year.

G: Patrick and Lia have a scene where- It's so out of the blue. It feels so odd. Does anybody else feel this way? I'm not sure.

C: Yeah. I don't know. I feel like Lia is just like, an OC that, like, Sera Gamble or Jenny Klein got, like, overly attached to, even though she just doesn't have much going on.

G: Yeah. She has one thing going on, and it's treated like a giant reveal. And it's like. well.

C: Yeah, I was like, "I don't get it."

G: Yeah, but what it is is like, Patrick and Lia are like, in love, I think. But Lia is having doubts about this whole immortality thing because- and she opens her locket, and it's a picture of a kid and a very old woman. And she says, "When I buried my daughter, she looked like this." And it's, you know, it's distressing for her, I suppose.

C: Why couldn't she have given her some years?

G: No idea. Like, teach her how to play poker. Like, come on. [C laughs] She goes, "When I buried my daughter, she looked like this!" And points at the old lady. And she goes, "It's not natural." So true! Maybe it's even supernatural. [C: Supernatural, yeah.] And yeah, Patrick is like, "You knew when you decided to come with me what you were going into." And, "This is what you wanted. You're still young. You're so beautiful. You have me." [both laughing] Truly a series of traits and characteristics to point to a person. [C: Yeah.] But yeah. Lia says, "I miss my family. Sorry!" And, I don't know. What is the context of this? Like, if she dies, she gets to be with her family? Obviously not.

C: In Hell? [laughs] Like, what's up? I think it's just that she misses them too much to go on without them or whatevs.

G: Yeah, I guess so.

C: Do witches go to Purgatory, or like-

G: No idea. I think they go to Hell. [C: Auto?] 'Cause Rowena goes to Hell, and like, I think the concept of a witch is that they sell their souls for powers or something. [C: Right.] And Rowena goes to Hell- Or they worship the devil or whatever. So Rowena goes to Hell and becomes the queen of that thing, so. [C: True.] Patrick goes, "[dramatically] I thought you loved me!" But not like that. Not like that. [C laughs] He just says, "I thought you loved me." And Lia goes, "I do. It's just that I thought I was cut out for this, but I'm not." And Patrick's like, "I can't do this without you!" And yeah, Lia says, "Well, you were doing it before me."

C: "It's okay. You can still kill people, Patrick! [laughs] You can kill people without me!"

G: Yeah, exactly. But yeah, they both go all in or whatever, and Lia loses. And she grows old very, very fast.

C: It's horrible CGI. [laughs] It looks like shit.

G: Yeah. And Patrick is emo. And that's it. That's the end of their story, both of them.

C: Yeah, I guess she and Rowena can meet up and be, like, [G: This is true.] opposite ends of the witch career woman spectrum. So there's that in her future.

C: So back at the motel room, Sam's being happy about his victory, his real poker victory. And then he needs to head out to get a booster shot for his gonorrhea. [G: Yeah.] And now that Bobby is alone with the the person he loves as a son, and not as a co-worker, [both laugh] they can talk. And-

G: You know, that started out as a joke, but it's becoming more and more real every time.

C: No, like, it is real. It's real. [G: It's true.] Dean says that he's sorry about calling Bobby an idiot. And okay, this is where I think they're like, trying to say that Dean experiencing being old has made him understand Bobby's situation more, where he says, like, "I get it. Getting old ain't a bachelor party, and dealing with the crap you gotta deal with." And, like, "If I was in your shoes," and Bobby goes, "You'd never stop complaining," and it's because Dean was in his shoes and never stopped complaining. I mean, I think that is fine just 'cause like, you do, like, become disabled as you get older. That is just part of it. And like, the things that Dean was dealing with are like, part of the disability spectrum. It's not the same as being paralyzed, and I think it's kind of done, like, sloppily, but like, I am fine with the general idea of that. And then he tells Bobby that he's not useless, and Bobby just tries to ignore this. And then Dean gives him a speech that, I think, works for the characters, like, who they are, so I guess that is fine. Like, that is the point of the speeches, for the characters. He starts with, "You don't stop being a soldier 'cause you got wounded in battle." So true. Being disabled is okay because our troops are disabled! [both laughing] [G: My god.] [laughing] I mean, that is the logic that he is working off of. Which, yeah, I think, again, makes sense for Bobby, but it's just not- I don't think is is the place that, like, disability justice should [G, laughing: Yeah.] come off of. But yeah.

G: For Bobby, perhaps it does make sense, yeah.

C: For Bobby, yeah, it is a direct response to like, "I'm not a hunter anymore," [G: Yeah.] and they consider hunting the same as being a soldier. [G: [Scottish accent] A soldier!] And Dean also considers torturing people in Hell the same as being a soldier. [laughs]

He says that "No matter what shape you're in, your family. Me and Sam, we don't have much left. I can't do this without you, so don't you dare think about checking out. I don't want to hear that again." Okay, I don't think helpful in a general circumstance. [G: Yeah.] For Bobby, probably.

G: Yeah. I think the "I don't wanna hear that again" is a bit too much. [C: Yeah.] But all the other stuff, I think- I don't know. There is this idea that I've been hearing, it's not a good form to tell someone who's suicidal that, like, "If you kill yourself, I'm gonna be hurt!" [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] because that's like, guilting them. And it's like, well, I think it works! [C: Sometimes.] So, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure for some people-

C: Yeah, it's a personalized thing.

G: Yeah, it's just one of those ideas that, like, it sounds good on paper that, like, "Oh, you shouldn't further guilt people who already feel bad," but like, I think there is a huge spectrum and a huge path towards recovery, and, like, maybe in the future, when the person is less of a suicide risk, that would be, like, an appropriate mindset to have that, like, oh, it should be the person- it should be removed from other people needing them, the worth of a person and the value of their life. But I think in, like, you know, when it's this straightforward that, like, Bobby thinks he's useless [C: Yeah.], and that's why he's suicidal, it's like, well, he is useful. And the way I can communicate that - like, in Dean's perspective - is to say that he's useful to Sam and Dean. [C: Yeah, emotionally.] And it's like, yeah, it works.

C: Yeah, I think it does make sense as a response to-

G: To what he said earlier, yeah.

C: Yeah. But "I don't wanna hear that again" is like, well, so if he feels like this again, [G: "Shut the fuck up, Bobby."] he should keep that to himself, and, like, not reach out? Okay.

G: But yeah, Bobby is like, "Okay!" He doesn't say that.

C: Yeah, he goes, "Okay." And then he goes, "Are we done feeling our feelings? 'Cause I'd like to get out of this room before we both start growing lady parts." Okay. [laughs]

G: Wow. Okay, misogynist.

C: Yeah. Okay, misogynist. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. What a line. It's so much. It's a lot. And I guess the point is that it's a lot in response to how uncomfortable he is. Like, it's like, "I gotta be extra misogynistic to feel normal again." But like, I just- I don't think it's very helpful to do like a "Don't kill yourself because you feel useless because of your disability, but like, also talking about your feelings, is like, a woman thing to do." Like, especially because people watching-

G: Especially because of the "I don't want to hear that again." [C: Yeah, yeah.] And it's like, well. Hm.

C: It's like a double whammy of, like, "Being suicidal and talking about it makes you weak!" And yeah, like, there are people who are watching this who probably related to Bobby in like, an earlier scene. [G: Of course.] And I feel like you've gotta be more sensitive about that audience during this scene. So yeah. Well. Oh, well, Sera Gamble.

G: Yeah. And then the final scene of this episode [laughs]- So Dean is like, "Let's go." And then Dean, like, starts heading out, and he's about to get a burger or whatever, and then he's like, "Nah. Not gonna get the burger." And Bobby's like, "Oh, really?" And Dean's like, "Yeah." [laughs] And then that's it! It is a pretty funny ending in that I'm like, "Why? Why is this the end of this episode? Okay, sure. Let's go."

C: Yeah, yeah. Are they- Wait, Sam went to the clinic. Where are they going? Didn't Sam take the car.

G: No, Sam took a walk, and now they're-

C: Oh, Sam took a walk? Well, probably, Patrick picked him up in his sports car [G: Exactly.] and then Sam got his booster shot so that they could have sex in the backseat after.

G: Wonderful. [C: Wonderful.] Well, what do we think about this episode? I completely forgot what I said that I thought this episode was like.

C: [laughing] I don't remember. It's been two weeks.

G: I think it's fine, is what I think.

C: Yeah. It's whatever.

G: But mostly, I think it's been so long that all strong feelings have dissipated. [C: Are fireproof, yeah.] Yeah, it's funny. It's fine. It's not funny sometimes. It's fine. Patrick was a fun character.

C: I mean, there was the Asian thing. [G: Oh yeah.] Patrick was fun.

G: Patrick was fun, so that was fun. Yeah. I don't know. What's the next bit?

C: Best Line/Worst Line?

G: Well, what is the best line of this goddamn episode?

C: Um. [laughs] "I like you, Sam." No, I think it's the- it's another Sampatrick one. What does he say? "We could make a player of you yet."?

G: Yeah, like, "Maybe some time," and Sam goes, "Oh, I have time."

C: "Nice bluff. If we had time, I could make a real player out of you." and Sam goes, "I've got time." [G: Yeah.] Like, so true. If Dean wasn't about to start dying right then, like, they could have gotten somewhere.

G: I have no idea what my best line is, but my worst line is all the he-witch lines. [C: Yeah.] It was like- [laughing] It's more mind-boggling than anything. Like, what? Well.

C: I don't know. It's such a weird, like, defensiveness. Like, "I need to defend, like, the castle of manhood by, like, being like, 'It's so weird that there's a witch who's a man. He's not a regular witch. He's a he-witch. And that makes him icky!" Like, what is this? Yeah, I guess my worst line is Bobby's "Let's get out of this room before we both start growing lady hearts." for obvious reasons.

G: Should we spread those sheets?

C: Yas.

G: Yas, even.

C: So okay, misogyny exists.

G: Fundamentally, yeah. I think this could be-

C: Yeah. There's the intersection of misogyny and racism for the sex workers and the maid. And then, I don't- [laughs] Lia's just really corny, but I think she's not that much- Yeah.

G: I would say it's a 2-2 for misogyny and racism. Do you think?

C: There's also the he-witch and the lady hearts on top of-

G: Yeah, let's bump it to 3?

C: I'd say there's a 3 in the misogyny thing, yeah.

G: How about the homophobia?

C: The he-witch stuff does feel homophobic as well.

G: I think it really leans more into misogyny because they don't make gay jokes about Patrick, only we do that, so.

C: That's true. And it's not jokes. I'm being serious! [both laugh]

G: Yeah! We're being so for real right now. So yeah.

C: So no homophobia?

G: No, I don't think so.

C: Okay. Alright, alright.

G: Okay, IMDb. What is our MDb?

C: I think on the lower end?

G: On the lower. Well, you're the one who's supposed to guess first.

C: Yeah, I have to guess first. Um, 8.2.

G: 8.2. Really? I'm gonna go for 8.5 [C: Okay.] because I think this is- like, not the most beloved. But I don't think people hate it. [C: Okay.] G: Okay, let's see. Oh! It's an 8.7.

C: Oh, that's high. What?

G: Higher than I thought, also.

C: Yeah. God, I'm doing so bad this season. [laughs]

G: Yeah, it's because you won last season, and this is my revenge.

C: Yeah, yeah. Indeed it is.

G: Yeah. Everybody is saying it's like, insightful, fun.

C: Insightful how?

G: "Nice villain." This one says "nice villain." Yeah, it is. "The one thing I hate in this episode was the makeup. Seeing young people going rapidly into old age with this horrible, less-believable makeup was a pity. But I enjoyed the show anyway." [C: Yeah.] Well, the thing I hated the most was the misogyny and racism, so I don't know about that, buddy. [C laughs] This one says it's their all time favorite Supernatural episode. No, "it's one of," sorry.

C: What year was this?

G: 2010. So yeah, at this point they had a few. This one says, "I give this show a 10 out of 10. A royal flush!" which is probably really fun if you know anything about poker. Oh, this one doesn't! [C: Oh, thank god!] "For the first time in 89 episodes [C: For the first time? For the first time!] Supernatural has let me down. I found both the story line and the directing faulty." Robert Singer callout! [C: Robert Singer!] "It had nothing of either the quirk or the drama-"

C: It didn't have quirk? It had plenty of quirk. It has a bit too much quirk.

G: Yeah. "They were trying too hard to make it funny and did not succeed, being left, at times, with scenes out of place(the jumping in front of the cars-" Why is that out of place?- "spell cast on Sam-" That was gay sex! [C laughs]- "the digging of the body-" That was funny!

C: That was for the murderer's bones for the spell!

G: Yeah! This one says "it was like jumping from one scene to another-" The only time I felt that was with the last scene with Lia, but that was pretty much it, so. "I was left with the impression that Jensen Ackles might have told the script writers that he needs to take a personal day and they had to woop up, at a moment's notice, a teleplay for an episode without him, and they just didn't have time to polish it."

C: Pretty funny. Well, maybe so. Who knows?

G: This is so-! "One thing I am sure of: if I can watch the previous episodes time and again, this is the one exception that will remain at one viewing only."

C: [laughing] Like, all of them? [G: This is 2009, so prior.] Like, all- Like, racist truck is like, wonderful?

G: This is a fascinating look into a psyche of a person. Like, imagine watching that episode where Dean calls Sam gay for knowing fairy tales [C laughing] that was so useless. That episode was so pointless. [C: It was pretty bad.] And being like, "I would rather watch that a hundred times than watch this episode the second time." Well, what else? It's like they don't even care about Bobby and his development as a character! I don't, but like, it's like you don't either. [both laughing]

Well, that's it. For this episode of B-B-B-Busty Asian Beauties. [both laugh] Next episode, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 8: "Changing Channels." [C: Oh, for real?] Leave us a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, Cas is gonna show up and he's gonna look like a pretty boy, I think.

C: He's gonna have tape over his mouth.

G: You know, I watched that episode more recently than I've watched a lot of the future episodes of Supernatural, and it is fascinating how little Cas, like, is in there,. Like, he's in there. But he talks not. He doesn't say anything, he's just blinking. He just shows up-

C: Yeah, he's just, "Dean! Something's going on!"

G: "Mm! Hi, Dean! OMG!" Yeah.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbub- Bleh. Check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 15 days

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you and me we'd be a big conversation.....

#mentioned #as mentioned in the outtakes of episode 89!#i (grey) loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this amvvvvvvvvvv #loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 15 days

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Episode 89: The Imagery of This Kind of Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural Episode 5.07 - The Curious Case of Dean Winchester. We talk about: gun boy, figuring out Bobby's age, and letting Sam sing on stage even though he is so bad at it.

Bonus Ko-Fi Episode Outtakes

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#episode #babpod #supernatural #spn #season 5

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 25 days

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Hello everyone! Episode will not be up this Friday :(( We will be back next week with Ep. 89! See you all 🫶🫶

-Grey <3

#Marry we cannot show it (podcast) in time #and we HAVE tried #its because jesus died and then came back to life #and my (catholic) schedule was completely torn asunder. sorry!

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 29 days

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Episode 88: Does Sam Winchester Have Anything to Say to the People of the United States (and the Philippines)?

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural Episode 5.06 - I Believe The Children Are Our Future. We talk about: the physical manifestation of Dean Winchester, deciding once and for all if Professor X and Magneto are in love, and missing Jack!

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#episode #babpod #supernatural #spn #season 5

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Episode 88 Transcript: Does Sam Winchester Have Anything to Say to the People of the United States (and the Philippines)?

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many, many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 6: "I Believe the Children Are Our Future," written by Daniel Loflin and Andrew Dabb, directed by Charles Beeson. Loflin/Dabb!

C: Yeah. Well, soon, they will do a terrible thing to us. [laughs]

G: When soon?

C: When's "Hammer of the Gods"?

G: Oh my god, you're right! It is- they are “Hammer of the Gods.” [C laughs]

C: Yeah, I mean, that is what I primarily think of them as.

G: They will do two episodes first before they do "Hammer of the Gods."

C: Okay. Alright. I'll work up to hating them, then. [G: Yeah.] We finally get a proper Sam mirror episode. It's been so long!

G: Literally. What if there was a mirror held up in front of San Winchester? [C: What if?] And it's so fun! You know what? I solemnly- I will say this. I'll put this on the record. This is a good Supernatural episode. [C: Mm.] Do you agree? Disagree? What are your thoughts?

C: Yeah. I think I generally liked it, but I think that some of the stuff they said wasn't making any sense, like, especially at the end.

G: Well, that's why I said it's a good Supernatural episode. [C laughs] Like, it's not a good- I think it could be a good episode, but I'm not going to make that stance. Like, I'm not gonna die on that hill. But I am gonna die on the hill of it being a good Supernatural episode. Like, it has all the makings of Supernatural. It's not, like, trying something new or different. It's just Supernatural as what it does, and it does a good job of it! I think it's a fine- it's a wonderful Supernatural episode!

C: He didn't even leave a note with his birth mom. Where did she go after that?

G: I have no idea. It is crazy that she was a person, and then turns-

C: Yeah, and then she gets possessed, and then she's just passed out in a chair for the rest of the episode.

G: She was a person, and her backstory is about how traumatizing it was to be possessed, and then at the end of the episode, she gets possessed, and then she is treated like every other person that was a vessel in Supernatural that isn't a main character. [C: Yup.] And it's like, well, mm.

C: Yeah, literally, it's like, "It was so terrible to be used only for my body, and I'm still dealing with the repercussions of that," and then at the end, they just treat her like a body as well. [G: Yeah.] Good job, writers.

G: And, like, they didn't even think about taking her to Bobby's as well or giving her a damn amulet? [C: Tattoo?] Yeah, I don't know. Giving her Bobby's hat? Like, you haven't thought of this?

C: [laughs] Exactly. Also- yeah, whatever, we'll get into it later. The conversation on the car made no sense. [laughs]

G: I completely zoned out in that part because I was like, "What the fuck are they talking about?"

C: "What the fuck are you talking about?" [laughs]

G: But okay. [laughs] "I wish Dad didn't tell us things when we were kids." What?? Okay.

C: "I wish, instead, he lied about how jacking off makes hair grow on your palms." [laughs] Like, no, you don't!

G: Well, first, what did you know about this episode before going in ?

C: Just so that this is gonna be with an Antichrist kid named Jesse, and Cas wants to kill him, [G: Feminist!] and then he just turns Cas into an action figure, [G: Also feminist.] and then Dean will ask if he can bring him back 'cause Cas is like, his friend.

G: "It's my buddy Cas." Yeah.

C: Yeah, "He's kind of a buddy of mine."

G: Ah, lovely! I think I've said this before, but this is another one of those episodes where Cas is in it, but also, like, not really.

C: Yeah. They do action figure him.

G: Like, he is in it. Yeah, they put him in the bank vault by turning him into an action figure. [C: Exactly.] And like, he is relevant, but also like, what I mean is in future seasons when he becomes more of a "there's a plot A/plot B happening in this episode, and he's plot B" kind of situation, or sometimes even plot A. And in the future, I would say, [laughs] I'm premonitioning that I would say that, "Oh, I miss when Cas was just like, in an episode that's just like, his role is just bullshit. He's just in there." [C: Uh-huh.] And because it adds to the vibe of the show that they just have this buddy that like, shows up sometimes, and it's no big deal. I mean, it is a big- you know what I mean, right? Like, it's no big deal to the show. Instead of like, every time he shows up, it has to be because of a big plot reason or a big character reason. And it makes the show feel smaller, makes the word feel smaller, because every time he's here, it has to be a big deal by the episode. And now it's like, "He's here. It's not that big of a deal." And that's wonderful to me! [laughs]

C: Uh-huh. Happy for you.

G: I would admit, though, for a substantial amount of time before he shows up- I mean, I knew he was gonna be here- I was just thinking, "When's Cas gonna show up? When's Cas gonna be here?" So I don't know. It's a double-edged sword.

G: Well, we start with the "Then" sequence that was so ominous. I was half-scared that Sam and Dean are gonna have a big fight again because it starts with "You chose a demon over your own brother!" [C laughs] and I was like, "I thought we were past this! I thought we were past this." We are. We are. In the episode, it's not, like, brought up. It's just- I don't even know why.

C: We're so past this that they're working as a team so hard that they refuse to split up, which I think is like, [laughs] a large issue during a lot of the episode.

G: Why? Why do you think so? They split up in the hospital. Sam went to a different floor, and Dean went to a different floor! [C laughs] That's splitting up.

C: I feel like one of them should have stayed with Jesse, [G: That's true.] and one of them so should have stayed with his mom or something. I feel like that would have solved most problems.

G: No, yeah, you're right. But they did split up! Don't peddle lies in this podcast.

C: Different floors of the hospital, I don't think counts. [G laughs] Split up as in different buildings, at the very least.

G: Well, okay, alright. But the ominous tone doesn't really continue into the episode. Actually, a substantial amount of the episode was light. Was like, trying to be funny. Yeah. So there was, I suppose, like, some idea that this could be- like, they bring up the trickster, blah blah blah. But you know it's not gonna be, like, that, because it's not in the "Then" sequence. [laughs]

C: They bring it up 'cause "Changing Channels" is coming, like, up so soon, they want to remind people about Gabriel, right?

G: You're right. When is "Changing Channels"? When do we change our channels?

C: I think it might be like, literally next.

G: Oh, it's 5.08. So it's near.

C: Okay, so in 2.

G: It's near, it's near. You're right, actually! That's true. "Then" sequence ends with Sam and Dean reconciling. Wow! "[dramatically] We're gonna go down fighting. We're just gonna grab onto whatever it's in front of us," and it's like, this could be from any episode. [C laughs] [C: It could be.] This could be literally from any fucking episode, but alright.

C: They say this constantly. Also, you didn't beat up this child, so I think you were lying?

G: I think Sam was lying.

C: Yeah, something to think about.

G: I think Sam is of the perspective that they're the good guys and they don't kill children because of that. [C laughing] But like, he also said that they would just grab onto whatever's in front of us, so.

C: Yeah, and then kick its ass. Soo yeah. Interesting, Sam. Interesting.

G: Yeah. Bit hypocritical from Sam Winchester.

C: What do you have to say to the people of the USAmerica about this?

G: And the Philippines, even.

C: And the Philippines. I guess nothing, 'cause it's not on Netflix for you guys.

G: Yeah! Can you- why? Put Supernatural on Netflix.

C: It's so that he wouldn't have to be liable for his lies to the people of the Philippines. [G laughs]

G: This is the real reason, the only reason. But it would be awfully convenient, and maybe we would even get it a Tagalog dub, on Netflix! so I don't have to hound whoever has ever worked in TV5 for the fucking Tagalog dub. Again, if you know any way that I can access that fucking dub, I want it very much. Thank you.

The episode starts. We've got, like, a young lady. She's going to be revealed to be babysitting in a while. Or, I don't know. Is it called babysitting if it's not a baby?

C: Yeah, it's still called babysitting.

G: Okay. This is like, really popular in the US. [C: Yeah.] Did you ever get one? Is that like, something for you?

C: No, I never got one.

G: Okay, it's like, a specific demographic. [laughs]

C: I always had a parent- Well, I think it's just like, how many of your parents work, what hours they work, [G: Ah.] how much money they make so they can get a babysitter. And then, I don't know. I think sometimes people will get a babysitter when they want to go on like, dates with their partner or something, and so they're leaving the kids alone at night? [G: Yeah.] It's also if your parents don't have friends that they can leave you with, I suppose. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Like, you just go to your aunt's house, or you go to your neighbor's house for the afternoon or whatever. She's babysitting, and she is, you know, she's brushing her hair while sitting in front of this television, very close to the TV, and she's watching and watching. And she is wearing a typical Supernatural outfit and in a typical Supernatural house with typical Supernatural lighting. And all I could think of was like, can you believe that she's not, like, "I'm in a Supernatural episode!" that it looks like this. Like, girl, be fucking for real right now. [C laughs] I can't believe people on television don't realize that they're on television! Like, bro, you're literally in Supernatural! Also, isn't it so odd that they just never change fashion styles in this show? [laughs] I mean, is it odd, or that's just how it is?

C: True. It's been a few years.

G: It's been a few years, and it will continue to be a few more years, and the look of the outfits will never change.

C: Really? No one changes their outfits? Wow!

G: No, I don't think so.

C: Maybe the costume department just bought like, things in bulk in, like, 2005, [both laugh] and they're just slowly working through it.

G: For real. Eventually, she hears, like, some rustling, some bustling, and she realizes that, oh, something's happening. She goes to the closet. She opens the closet door, and there's a kid there. And he's like- he has stuff in his head.

C: He's wearing one of those hats that's like, half of an arrow on each side, so it looks like it went through your head.

G: And he has a quote "bloody" face. And I didn't realize that this was a trick at first, so I was like, [C: Oh, I don't think you're supposed to.] yeah, I was like, "What an interesting turn of events that this girl is a serial killer!" [both laugh] 'Cause she opens it, and she's like, "Ugh, come on!" I was like, "Oh my god! She killed this kid! Wonderful!" [C: Yeah.] But no, she did not kill this kid.

C: No, she's gonna die instead. It's very sad.

G: Yeah. Very sad. [laughs] The child should have died? Is that what you're saying, Crystal? The child should have died?

C: Babysitters are often teens as well. I don't know how old she is. [G: This is true. Or is it?] She could be a child who died.

G: Why are you making a child watch over your child? And pay them to-

C: That's just how it is.

G: Just let them be by themselves, just like Jesse later. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, I mean, Jesse is a pretty good kid. Like, he may have caused many problems, but that wasn't on him.

G: [laughs] It literally isn't. But yeah, she tells the kid to go to bed, and then the kid is like, "Well, before I go to bed, can I touch your boob?" [C: Boo.] Or something like that. And I'm like, "Ugh. Annoying. But also, this kid will be traumatized to hell and back later, so."

C: Yeah, no, it's just an annoying thing to put in because I feel like the hot babysitter is, like, such a trope. [G: Overplayed trope.] Yeah, and it's overplayed. And I hope that it hasn't led to more babysitters getting sexually harassed, but it probably has if like, you're a young kid who doesn't know shit, and you're watching TV, and there's more hot babysitter tropes in front of you all the time. [G: Yeah.] So yeah, it's annoying for that reason.

G: He goes out, she stays downstairs, she continues brushing her hair. She sees something outside. She looks out the window. It's, you know, like, it's a whole thing. And then, when the family shows up, well, the mom and dad, she's like, on the couch, and she's sleeping, and the TV is all buzzy. And the dad is like, "Okay, don't wake up. I'm just going to get her home, or whatever."

C: Which implies that she can't drive, right? So she probably is a teen.

G: What is the driving age? Is it also 21?

C: 16.

G: What the fuck? Wait, so your drinking age is-

C: Some people get their licenses- Yeah, the drinking age is 21. Driving age is 16. And you're right. You can probably kill a lot more people by driving than by drinking.

G: Well, at least you're not gonna be drunk driving.

C: [laughs] That's true. Yeah, I guess the point is for you to get a few years of getting good at driving, so that when some people inevitably drunk drive, they'll be, like, better at it. [laughs]

G: Yeah, except you and I are never gonna- [laughs] you and I are never gonna drive ever, probably. Do you have a driver's license? You do-

C: I have a driver's license.

G: That's crazy! That is so against my perspective of you as a person! [C laughing]

The dad tries to wake her up. She's not waking. When he moves her head over, he feels it's wet, and so he puts his hand under the lamp. It's bloody! He turns her over fully, and her entire side of her head is clawed open. Wonderful, honestly! [C laughs] Like, it looks like it has sloughed off, and I think the visual effect is very nice.

C: [laughs] He ruins it by shouting, "Francine!" I think it's crazy that people are named Francine. Good for them.

G: Hey, Francine is a fine name!

C: Yeah, I think it's just from, like, a different decade in the US, but this woman is from a different-

G: It's not! I have many friends- I know many people my age named Fran-

C: I said US!

G: Okay, fine.

C: We are in the morgue, and Sam and Dean are being FBI agents. My god, does the transcript usually say "Dean and Sam" instead of "Sam and Dean"? Like, I saw that, and I was like, "Something's wrong with this." Has this been like, a pattern?

G: I think it depends. I'm not particularly sure, although the technical, correct way to do it is "Dean and Sam" because of the order of letters.

C: Wait, like, you're usually supposed to list it in alphabetical order?

G: I mean, I usually do, yeah. Well, when it's names, like, when it's two names like this-

C: Well, you said "technically correct." Like, what's the technicality?

G: I don't know. I don't know! Don't ask me those kinds of questions! [both laughing]

C: [laughing] But you just said! Okay.

G: Yeah, they do Led Zep names this episode, and you know what? [C: What?] I think it's better when I don't recognize the names. I think it's so annoying when I do. I'm like, "Shut the fuck up!" [laughs] [C: Real.] You think you're so clever, Robert Plant? Like, shut the fuck up, Sam.

C: "We're Agents Will and Wood."

G: [laughs] Yeah, exactly.

C: They're asking to see Amber, the babysitter's, body because apparently, something clawed through her skull. Apparently, the autopsy report that he emailed out this morning- [laughs] Sam said they had no bars so they didn't get it [G laughs] [G: No bars.]- is that they found one of her acrylic nails, which I did notice, they're very beautiful during the opening sequence - they found one of them lodged inside of her temporal lobe, [G: Truly a shame.] which means that she literally scratched her brains out, and this is something that is apparently technically possible. The doctor drops a little ableist line about, "Oh, like, the reason she did it was OCD or PCP, but it all spells crazy." Did they think this was like, funny?

G: I don't know, or, like, the doctor is like-

C: Is it that the doctor's an asshole? What are they trying to establish here?

G: Well, because we're supposed to think the doctor is stupid for saying this because we know that's not true, [C: Right.] I think.

C: So yeah. Alright. Okay. Well, I'm still looking with reproach. [G: Yeah.] And he says that it's probably like, something like a phantom itch where you just can't stop scratching. And then, yeah, that's the end of that scene. But Sam and Dean [laughs] both sort of scratch themselves a little because they are now finding itchiness within themselves.

G: I would say also that the director- like, the way this episode is directed, I quite like. There's one scene that is viciously bad [laughs]- I'll point it out later.

C: I think there's multiple scenes that have Robert Singer-worthy zooms or cuts. [G laughs]

G: But in general, I quite really like the way the episode is directed. Like, the way they pull out the body, and then the shots of Sam and Dean’s face, the shot of the hand missing the nail. Like, all of it does look quite cinematic, I believe. And it's like, one of those- this is one of those episodes where, like, in my head, again, when I think of, like, Supernatural aesthetics, I'm like, "Oh, that's one." Which is like- 'cause usually, those are Season 1 episodes when I think of it, right? Like, if you think of Supernatural aesthetic, you're thinking of Season 1, so this one- I don't know. It doesn't look like Season 1, but it has a vibe to it that I like. It's nice. I like this episode. Sometimes, I like episodes. Who'd have thunk? Well, I mean, everybody, because apparently I've liked [laughs] every single episode of Season 5 so far, so.

C: Yeah, you have.

G: So we go to the house that she was in when she died, and I was like, "Well, that's interesting [laughs] that they're interviewing these people and not other people." Like, I don't know

C: What people?

G: Like, her parents, I feel like that would be- But it's because they are suspecting the place, not the general- before. Or are they?

C: Yeah, I think if that you're thinking about ghosts and shit, then you assume [G: You are suspecting-] it's place-based.

G: Yeah. They're interviewing the family of the house she was in, and Sam prefaces the question with, "This may seem odd," which is- why did they not just do this every single time? Like, "Hey, we're going to be asking odd questions, but stick with us." I feel like that is going to make people more willing to be like, "Well, that's an odd question. Let me answer it," than fucking, "Um, so, does it smell weird in here?"

C: Sometimes it makes you like- prefacing it with "Uh, this might be weird" makes you, like, realize that things are weird faster, though? Like, maybe in the past, they were hoping that people would just answer questions without thinking about it much.

G: Yeah, okay. I just cannot stop thinking about the people that like, Sam and Dean interview as FBI agents, and they think that the FBI is on their case, but they're not. [C laughs] And like, for some people, that would be an incredibly devastating blow, I think.

C: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they really don't circle back. Like, this kid is going to spend the rest of his life thinking that he killed his babysitter.

G: Yeah, 'cause she's dead, so she hasn't been restored.

C: Yeah, she's the only one who wasn't, like, brought back by Jesse.

G: Well, there was the guy who got electrocuted.

C: Oh, yeah. Two people. That kid and that retiree are both going through it.

G: And the ham. [C laughs]

C: And the ham! Jesse brings it back as a pig.

G: Yeah, exactly. Sam asks about cold spots or, like, strange smells, blah blah blah. Meanwhile, Dean is separated from Sam! [C laughs] and is like, walking around the house, looking at stuff.

C: In the open floor plan, so there's not even a door between them, yes. [G laughs]

G: Well, and Dean sees the kid, and he goes towards him and asks him about stuff, and he tries to connect. And I do find this interesting because, you know, usually, when they have kids, they do have Dean try to connect with the kid. I feel like earlier seasons, it was easier for him to do so. As he grows older, I think it becomes more difficult to the point of, when he's older, he's being made fun of kids more than [C: Good.] connecting with them.

C: I mean, also, like, he's an FBI agent here, right? [G: Yeah.] Like, in the past, he wasn't pretending to be an FBI agent when he was interviewing kids. Like, that puts up barriers between your ability to connect.

G: So what he does here is talks to the kid. He tries to connect with being like, "Oh, yeah, I had a babysitter. Not good."

C: Named Miss Chancy, which is also- it's an interesting name. I just feel like Francine and Miss Chancy are both, like, I don't know who came up with these names. [G: Yeah.] Someone's having like, a weird British face.

G: [laughs] Francine is not British. Francine- "Francine." How do you say it in a British accent so I can visualize? Frahncine.

C: I don't know.

G: See? It doesn't work.

C: I mean, Clara is Clahra in British. Like, they can- you can fuck with the vowels. [G: Francine.] Francine is French, though, so the British would not want it.

G: This is true, so see, it's not British. No one's having a British phase.

C: Yeah, fine. They're having a Europe [both] phase.

G: Dean asks if he saw anything strange that night, and the kid keeps on denying, keeps on denying. And Dean does something that is so threatening, which is he puts his hand on this kid's shoulder and goes, "I happen to know you're lying. Either you tell the truth, or I'm going to have to take you downtown," like, to the precinct is the implication, which is like crazy! [C: Bro.] I mean, the fact that he was like, "I'm gonna try to connect with this kid!" Doesn't work. "I'm going to fucking arrest you." [laughs] that is like, okay!

C: Yeah. I mean, this episode is the one where Dean completely fails at connecting to kids. 'Cause, like, the kid of the day is a Sam mirror, and he doesn't understand that. [G: Yeah.] So it's just a precursor to that.

G: There is something to me about how Sam, when he saw Jesse making-

C: Yeah, he went, "You are my mirror. I am your mirror. Let us hold hands."

G: No, when he saw Jesse making soup, he goes, "I used to make lunch or dinner for myself all the time." [C: Dinner.] 'Cause me, physical manifestation of Dean Winchester, as we have established, [C laughs] my first immediate thought was, "Oh, Dean used to make that for him and Sam." [C: No.] So I think, perhaps, that would also be Dean's like, reaction. But vs Sam-

C: I'm sure that Sam also made his own dinner.

G: No, no, no, no versus Sam- like, I'm sure it happened. But in terms of conceptualization of the past, like, it is fascinating to me that for Dean, which- this is something I completely made up in my head, so maybe it's not even true, but I think it is - [C: Yeah, we don't know what he's thinking.] he probably conceives it as him and Sam- him making something for Sam. Versus Sam, who conceives it as, like, by himself. "I'm making dinner for myself."

C: As in like, he didn't share with Dean? [laughs]

G: No, no, no. He probably remembers the stuff when it was just him more. And like, it's about the prevalent memory in your head of your childhood. And I was like, "That's interesting that Sam said that, and therefore betrays a prevalence of memory in his head." [C: Yeah.] Like, it's not about what actually happened, because again, I'm sure both things did happen. It's more of like, "What do you remember?" But that's for fucking later. Here, they go out, and Dean relays to Sam that the kid put itching powder on the hairbrush of the babysitter. [C: Yeah.] So that's crazy!

C: Why?

G: That's crazy.

C: I don't know. Kids just do things, I guess.

G: Yeah. Well, Dean did put that whoopee cushion.

C: A whoopee cushion is just like, an embarrassment thing. Itching powder is meant to cause you physical distress.

G: Yeah, this is true. This is true. That is one of the, I think, worst things you can do as a prank to someone. Like, in in terms of the general prank items that you can do. That's like, up there as like- because it lasts for a long time in theory. And if you have sensitive skin, it can do real, long damage for you. But whatever. This kid is going to be- again, this kid's kind of a dick, but [laughs] is also gonna be traumatized for the rest of his life, so.

G: They get a call, and they go to a hospital where a guy got electrocuted. [laughs] Because there's like, a retiree, like, an old man who they talk to. And he says he was joking around, he was feeling goofysilly, and he shook this guy's hand with a, like- What is this? Like, a little electric buzzer or something?

C: It's called a joy buzzer, it says, yeah.

G: Yeah. But what is it? It's supposed to give you a little shock, right?

C: Yeah, but there's no actual electricity. It just, like, moves around a lot, so, like, it feels like vibrations from a shock.

G: Oh. Why is it called joy buzzer?

C: 'Cause it causes you joy to buzz somebody. [laughs] That does sound like a vibrator, though.

G: Yeah, well, it does. And Sam and Dean are curious as to how this is. There's this scene where Dean puts on goggles, puts on gloves, puts on- like,makes a show of putting on safety gear, and then he holds the joy buzzer and then presses it into a piece of ham.

C: Sam also puts on the goggles and the safety gear!

G: [laughs] No! Does he really? [C laughs] That is so funny! They're cooking ham. They're cooking. He electrocutes this fucking ham, and it goes from completely uncooked- or, I don't know. Can a ham be completely uncooked? Don't you smoke that shit? How does ham work?

C: It is cured in some way. I don't know.

G: 'Cause ham can just be the cut, also, like, I think. Or is it specifically-

C: Well, there's cooked ham, and there's uncooked ham. [G laughs] So you're probably thinking about the cooked ham.

G: Yeah, well, it's an uncooked ham, and now it's cooked! Now they have a cooked ham. And Dean is like, "Wow, this thing doesn't even have batteries. It's not even supposed to do anything." And they're like, "Are we looking at cursed objects? What are we looking at? Is there a witch?" And throughout all this, Dean has pulled out a knife and is [laughs] eating the ham. And they make a point of it throughout the rest of this episode where he keeps on eating the ham, and the and Sam being like, "Eugh, Dean. Why are you eating the ham still?" Those two items don't come from the same place, like, they were not produced in the same place, but they come from the same store.

C: They're at this prank store. They're browsing. Dean picks up a whoopee cushion, which will come back later. They're under the impression that the owner is a powerful witch, so they question him. Dean buys the whoopee cushion, and it becomes clear that the owner is upset that kids don't really buy things here because they just care about "iPhones and those kissing vampire movies." Last episode, there was also like the "Millennials don't care about wax museums, but I'm gonna get them in through Paris Hilton," right? [G laughs] Like, sort of a streak of "kids these days on they damn phones."

G: Yeah. And are they being for real?

C: What?

G: Like, what is the show intending for this to be- again, like, same question you asked with the doctor earlier. Like, is this supposed to be like, "Haha! That's so true." or "Haha! That's so stupid."

C: I think it's like, "That's so true, but prank stores and wax museums are loser behavior." [G laughs] So it's funny that this person's complaining about it because of course an iPhone is better than a wax museum.

G: Yeah, and also kissing vampire movies.

C: Sam and Dan are sort of egging him on, like, "Oh, aren't you mad about that?" He's like, "Yeah, yeah! I am!" "Don't you hate them?" "Yeah, I do!" And then Dean goes, "So you're taking revenge with this!" and then he electrocutes a rubber chicken.

G: God. That place is gonna smell like fucking plastic forever.

C: Yeah. When a revenge brother meets a not revenge brother, this is the inevitable conclusion. But the chicken is a melted puddle. It's pretty nasty. And the guy, the owner, he's screaming. He's jumping back. He's like, "Oh my god, what the fuck!" So then, Sam is like, "Yeah, no, I don't think this guy is a witch," and Dean goes, "Sorry!" and then they go, with the whole rubber chicken still melted on the counter.

C: Now we are in a girl's bedroom. I don't think this child actress is very good, but she is a child actress, so I get it. She's just lost a tooth, and her dad is putting it under the pillow and telling her about the Tooth Fairy. And she goes, like, "So some freak is gonna come in my room while I'm sleeping and take my tooth? Sounds scary. No thank you."

G: She's so real for that.

C: After he falls asleep, she goes into his room and then hides her tooth under his pillow. Later in the night, somebody comes into the bedroom. It is the Tooth Fairy represented as like, a man with a beard wearing a pink tutu and sparkly wings. And he's being all menacing, and he has a pair of pliers, and he starts pulling out the dad's teeth. I have two questions about the Tooth Fairy. Okay, 'cause these are, like, what Jesse's parents told him, right? So like-

G: Yeah. So they were like, "Don't expect a coin because-"

C: Yeah, "The Tooth Fairy only wants alive teeth!" [laughs] Like, why would they say that? I don't know. These parents, like, we don't meet them, and, like, something is deeply wrong with them as people [laughs] based off of what happens this episode.

G: No, yeah. We don't ever meet them. And like, I don't know. It is fascinating, again, to me that like- I was gonna bring it up earlier. We don't meet the babysitter's parents. We meet the family that's already there for casting reasons, I suppose. And here, too, like, we never meet the parents, again, I think, for casting reasons.

C: I mean, we see them asleep in the bed. They had to cast somebody for it.

G: Yeah. But speaking lines are lot more expensive than somebody standing there or lying down there, I suppose.

C: But yeah, I don't know. It's confusing. And also, I don't know why the Tooth Fairy is portrayed like this, like, physically. 'Cause like, I think when we got to the part of the episode where like, Jesse's- I was watching this with Danica also. When we got to the part of the episode where Jesse was like, "Oh, that's what my parents said, like, the Tooth Fairy looks like."

G: Like, why did your parents say that?

C: Danica was like, "Oh, he's about to say something so homophobic," [laughs] but then they move on. [G: Yeah.] But like, I wonder if that was what the point was.

G: Oh, because fairy is a slur?

C: Yeah, like, if the dad was like, "Oh, fucking fairies" or something, you know, like- 'Cause typically, the Tooth Fairy is portrayed as a woman.

G: It could be like- Yeah, it could be like, if the dad's homophobic and calls gay people "fairies," that he just associates it-

C: Yeah, it's like, a guy with a beard, and he's like, "Oh, so that's what the Tooth Fairy looks like." Also, I don't know why I said "dad." Moms can be homophobic, too. #Equality.

G: [laughs] #Equality and feminism.

C: Yeah, I just feel like I've only heard "fairy" used by like, men. Like, I feel like- but like, yeah. Women can use slurs too. #Feminism.

G: I've only heard "fairy" used by Dean Winchester. [laughs]

C: Exactly!

G: Yeah. Guy's guy, that guy.

C: Yeah, yeah. I think, given that, like, Supernatural, the show, thinks that the sentence "fight the fairies" would immediately make you think of homophobia, like, maybe they were trying to go for something like that there, but they just didn't follow through entirely.

G: Well, thank god.

C: Because Jesse still has to love his parents or whatever.

G: Jesse still has to love his parents, and also, we're supposed to think he's like, a niceys kid with just misconceptions.

C: I don't think he's not niceys- Like, you could have misconceptions because your dad keeps saying "fairies." You don't have to be homophobic yourself.

G: Yeah, and also, it's not like, a homophobic-

C: Why did I say "dad" again? Your parent. [G laughing]

G: We are exposing our prejudices. Is that how you pronounce it? Prejudices. Prejudices? Whatever. We're exposing that here in this podcast episode.

C: This guy is still alive, but he's in the hospital, so Sam and Dean go interview him. Sam's doing his job, whereas Dean is being the most annoying guy you'll ever meet. He's flirting with a nurse, and like, he goes like, "I appreciate that, Nurse..." and then the transcript says that he reads her name tag. He does not just read her name tag. It is clipped, like,at her waist, and he picks it up, [G: Grabs it, yeah.] and like, pulls it towards him. Like, if anyone tried to do that, I would kill them, probably.

G: Yeah, but this person seems to be liking it.

C: Yeah. So maybe Dean's just picking up on signals or whatever.

G: Yeah. I mean, we've had this discussion wayyy back when we were still doing the per person Sam and Dean misogyny accounts. [C laughs] Can you believe that such a time has existed? What what an era in that point! Like, one time, we gave Sam 5 points, [C: Yeah.] and apparently, Samgirls were really mad at that. [C: Yeah.] So that's wonderful. [C: Wonderful!] My point here is we said, way back then, that flirting doesn't count. Well, it depends on the flirting.

C: Yeah, I don't think flirting counts, but yeah, I don't know. I just think that any flirting move that involves like [G: The office.] someone's name card at their waist, like, outside the door of like, a hospital room while they're working should just be toned down. But yeah.

G: Well, at least he doesn't try to hit her up again, just jacks off about it.

C: God. Why did they put that in? [G laughs]

G: What do you mean? Like, what do you mean? Is it a distasteful joke?

C: No, but it's like, 'cause it just doesn't really have a point to it. [G: Yeah.] It's not like later, they ask the kid, "And what did your parents tell you about jacking off?" [G laughs] 'Cause like, that wouldn't be appropriate. But, like, they did-

G: Yeah, it's for the comedy, it's for the LOLs. There's no nothing to, honestly.

C: Also, like, he didn't know when Sam was gonna get back. Do it in the bathroom, at least. I guess we don't know that he didn't do it in the bathroom [G: Well, we don't know.] but like, yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

G: Jacking off is fine! is my hot take. [both laugh] Even if it gives you hair on your palms.

C: I mean, it is fine. It's just an odd thing to put in for no reason.

G: It is an odd thing. [laughs] I'm just going to agree with everything you say and also disagree.

C: So after the flirting's over, he rejoins Sam. What Sam found out was that the Tooth Fairy that got this guy was 5'10, 350 pounds, had wings and a pink tutu, and got in without triggering any alarms. And it left 32 quarters underneath his pillow, one for each tooth. Slay! [G: That's pretty fun. That's pretty fun.] That's like, $8. And Dean says that he found out that there's some kids in the hospital with stomach ulcers from mixing pop rocks and coke, and then another guy's face "froze that way." And the way was like, a very silly face. Dean seems worried [overlapping] that it's gonna stick for him as well, yeah. Sam just doesn't really know how to put these together, and then Dean says that when he was a kid, he thought that sea monkeys were real. "I like, fully believed all the ads that they were like, basically people and shit." And Dean says, you know, like, maybe, like, the connection is that everything that's happened is a lie that kids believe. And Sam says, "Okay, so like, it's coming true. Whoever's doing this reshapes reality. Like, they have the power of a god, or a trickster," 'cause you know, he's on that Sabriel brain. [G, laughing: Yeah. So true. "Or maybe it's a kid. Who knows?"

G: We're back at the motel, and Sam is entering it with like, he's done research, whatever. See? They separated. [laughs] [C: Mm.] I'm going to be so annoying for the rest of this episode regarding that. Dean is eating a sandwich, again with the ham. And yeah, Sam was like, "Dude, really? Still with the ham?" And Dean goes, "We don't have a fridge!" At what point are we going to talk about that? We promised to talk about Sam's vegetarian situation.

C: He's not vegetarian yet.

G: Yeah. When it happens, when it happens, we promised to talk about it. With Dean, have we talked about it? Like, his relationship with food.

C: Yeah, we talked about it.

G: Okay, I mean, it's just, your typical talking point. [laughs] It's because there are stuff here in the podcast that-

G: I know it's a popular talking point in the fandom [C: Thing that people in the fandom talk about, but yeah.], but it does make me feel like, "Oh, well, let's just acknowledge it that that's something that happens, but let's not get into it, because all that's been said and done has been said and done." Although, do we have listeners that are not like, particularly in the fandom?

C: I'm sure we do.

G: Are you sure?

C: Yeah, some people came over from RubbishPod.

G: Yeah, if you if you are here and you're not in the fandom, why? and thank you. And if you're here from RubbishPod, hwy? [both] And thank you. [C: Yeah.] So Sam relays what he has found, which is that he put the incidents on a map, and they form a circle. And in the center of that circle is like, a house with a field. Why did he have to go out to do this?

C: Sam? [G: Yeah.] Well, he needed to get, like, a physical map of the town.

G: This is true. You're right! He could've just Google Maps-

C: I don't know if they had Google Maps yet.

G: Dean, as you said earlier, goes, "We're in the circle, aren't we? Because..." and then he raises his hand, and there's hair all over his palm because he jacked off!

G: They go to the farmhouse. There is truly godawful CGI in this scene. [C: Where?] Like, it looks so bad. The Impala, like, pulls up in front of a house, and the way it's shot is like, the house is so obviously- so obviously green screen. [C: Oh!] Did you not notice? It stuck out to me so bad. [C: No, I didn't.] And I was baffled, mortified, all the other adjectives about it.

C: I think I was still reeling from the the Dean masturbation joke. I was, you know, I was so emotionally distressed I didn't notice anything else. [laughs]

G: It is funny to me, because the whole time that they were walking towards it, I was just thinking, "How are they gonna cut away from this? How the fuck are they gonna cut away from this truly godawful scene?" And they did! Wonderful. Good for them. Yeah, they try to open the house, and Sam, like, picks the lock, but the door opens, and it's a little boy. Like, 9 years old is what they said, right?

C: How old is he supposed to be? Oh, is that what they said?

G: I think maybe 8 or something as such.

C: Who's telling their kids that jerking off makes hair grow on your palms when that kid is 8?

G: Oh, sorry. I watched a play earlier today, and the kid from that one was 8 years old. [laughs] This kid, I'm not sure. Probably 11. Probably older.

C: The conversation with Julia might say how long ago- Okay, he was born in 1998, the kid was, and this is too [both] 2009, so 11.

G: 11. Yeah. Just like-

C: Oh my god, just like Adam! [G: Just like Adam.] From Good Omens. I mean, there's a lot of, I think, Good Omens borrowing in this episode.

G: Oh, really? Can you name them?

C: No, I don't remember. [G laughs] I just remember having that thought.

G: So sad. You always need to bring your evidence. It's BABPod recordings. This is trial by fire.

C: That's true. It is.

G: He's a very- like, there is not an ounce of this kid that is not [laughs] aware of what's happening in his surroundings. Like, he's very like, "Okay, can I help you?" And Sam and Dean are like, "Hey, so what's your name?" And he's like, "Who wants to know? Can I see your ID?" And yeah. He's vigilant, is the term, about these things. [C: Yeah.] Which makes me wonder why. Like, is it, like, a social service thing? 'Cause he's obviously left alone a lot.

C: Yeah, probably. He shouldn't be left alone that much, so it's to prevent Child Protective Services from taking him away. Yeah, probably his parents trained him to do that.

G: And Dean even goes, at some point, like, "Come on, you can trust us. We're the authorities." Very threatening. Yeah, they eventually go in. The kid is boiling some soup. And Sam goes, "What's that?" [laughs] And Jesse realizes, just like us, that this is a stupid as fuck question, and he goes, "It's soup." [both laugh] But he says, "It's called soup," [C laughs] which is even funnier. Yeah. And he says, "You heat it up, and then you eat it." And Sam's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, I used to make my own dinner too, when I was a kid." Oh, he's mirroring! He said, "I'll be your mirror." Jesse says, "Well, I'm not a kid," which, you know, Sam is immediately like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know, I know." But he introduces himself as Robert. [laughs] Very fun.

C: I'm surprised that Sam got Robert Plant. Wouldn't Dean want that one?

G: Well, Robert Plant is the main vocalist, so probably Dean would want that. But Jimmy Page is, I would say, has a better- to me, he's a cooler guy to me. [laughs] [C: Okay.] So, I don't know. [laughing] And I am the physical manifestation of Dean Winchester.

C: Yeah. Or this is part of the "We have to work as a team." Dean's like, "[dramatically] You know what, Sam? This time, you can be Robert Plant!" It's nice that Sam has decided to mirror it up here. Like, he seems almost caught in the nostalgia sauce when like, Jesse reminds him that he's not a kid. [G: Yeah.] It's been a while since he's thought about his childhood, I feel like, just because the present moment is so intense.

G: The last time- Well, I mean he did think about his childhood in '21. 4.21. [C: Mm. This is true.] That's the reason, I think.

C: Eh, been a bit, but yeah.

G: Okay. Well, when has Dean thought about his childhood? Have we considered?

C: Who cares? [both laugh]

G: I care. I GAF. The thing is, Sam, I think, likes to think about his childhood, and Dean does not. [C: Does he?] It's probably complicated and often painful, but he does do it often, and we see him do it often. And it is- I cannot imagine a situation where Dean would, in his head- Like, I mean, I understand that like, it's not like Sam was choosing to do what was happening in 4.21, like, he wasn't choosing who to talk to, who will manifest as him and talk to him. But like, the fact that for him, it was a kid. Like, I cannot imagine any situation where Dean would- that Supernatural will that have that happen to Dean Winchester. Do you understand what I mean? Yeah.

C: Yeah, I mean, it's 'cause Sam as a kid had hopes and dreams, so there's something there.

G: Yeah. Versus Dean, that like- I think those hopes and dreams, no matter how much, you know, broken dreams, are they bad or are they something else, just like Bruce Springsteen -it's still something to look back on. Versus Dean, that I think has less of that as a child, and perhaps had a very miserable childhood, and even more so because he didn't have aspirations such as that. And so doesn't look back on it, like, a lot, though. A lot of the looking back that Dean does is like, he was already a pretty hefty teenager. [laughs] Hefty is such a funny word!

C: Hefty? What do you mean by hefty?

G: Like, he was already a grown teenager.

C: He's old, yeah, in "After School Special."

G: Because like, for me, teenagers are like, I feel like 13 to 15 is like, young- or like, 13-14 is young teenager, and maybe 15-18 is, like, older teenager. And he was already an older teenager in "Bad Boys," which is like, the big Dean Winchester's childhood episode, and he was already one also in-

C: [laughing] Played by a 25-year-old.

G: Played by a 25-year-old high school special. "After School Special." And, I mean, the shtriga episode, he was a kid there, but that's not a good flashback. Like, that wasn't him looking back with fondness to something or whatever. It was being reminded to him because of a case that, like, I think- in no situation would he rather remember it, you know? So yeah, I think those differences in how Sam and Dean viewed their childhood are interesting to me, and also it's so fun to me that I still remember the shtriga episode so well because of the "God, did John like leave them for bait?" thing. Yeah. [laughing] I don't recall literally any other monster on Supernatural, I think. Except for that one.

While Sam is looking- while Sam is connecting and mirroring, Dean is looking at like, the pictures on the fridge, and he, again, he sees the man with the wings and the tutu, and he's like, "Did you draw this?" And Jesse says, "It's the Tooth Fairy!" And Dean is like, "Oh, okay, so this is what you think the Tooth Fairy looks like, huh?"

C: Oh, wait, he says his dad told him about the Tooth Fairy, and that's probably why I kept saying "dad." [laughs] I'm not misogynistic.

G: [laughs] You are practicing equality.

C: Yeah.

G: Dean, is like, "Huh, okay." And Jesse goes, "What? Didn't your dad tell you about the Tooth Fairy?"

And Dean is like, “Ha! My dad told me different stories,” which comes up later in a big way. In a way that [C: Yeah.] I don't understand at all. [C: Not at all.] But alright. They start doing this thing where Dean would ask something that happened to those people, and Jesse would say what happened, so like, “Oh, what happens when you mix pop rocks and coke?” “Oh, you go to the hospital.” “Itching powder?” “You scratch your brains out!” and then Dean shows the thing, the joy vibrator. Was it the joy-

C: [laughs] The joy buzzer?

G: [laughs] The joy buzzer. And Jesse’s like, “Oh, you shouldn't do that. It can electrocute you,” and Dean says, “No, actually it can't. It's just a toy. It's harmless. It doesn't have batteries, it can’t shock you, see?” And then he [C: Literally insane.] buzzes Sam, and Sam was, of course, shocked by this.

C: In terms of his emotions. [G: Yeah.] But not physically.

G: [laughs] Not physically. And Dean is like, “See? I told you!”

C: In fact, the point is that he wasn’t shocked physically.

G: He wasn't physically shocked, but he had the shock, emotionally, of his life.

C: Of his life, yeah. And Dean presses it right to his chest, too. [G: Yeah, like, dude.] Bro, maybe do a finger, Sam can lose a finger if you're wrong. [G: Do a finger test for real.] You would murder him. I’m sure there’s a- do it to the fucking soup or something. But yeah, whatever.

G: Yeah. And yeah, as they're heading out, Sam is like, “Dude. What the hell?” Guess again. Dean’s like, “Well, I mean, I was right, though,” and he was.

C: Yeah. It’s fine when Sam does this, so I think for the sake of equality I need to be fine that Dean did this.

G: Yeah. #feminism.

C: [laughs] No, absolutely not. But yeah.

G: We need to stop joking about feminism. [laughs]

C: Yeah, it is a thing that we actually care about for real.

G: Yeah. Yeah, so they discuss, “Oh, everything he believes comes true, so what are they supposed to do?” “We're out of our depth,” blah blah blah. They need to investigate some more.

C: I just can't believe they figured out what was going on, and they just left instead of sitting the kid down and then being like, “Can you give us a list of everything your parents told you? And we'll tell you the truth.” Currently, they just corrected him on one thing. The next person to mix pop rocks and Coke is gonna die.

C: Anyway, in the motel, Sam comes in. He's been looking through records. He was adopted, and there's no listed father. But his biological mother is named Julia Wright, and she lives on the other side of the state. So they go there, and her house is kind of rundown. There's a No Trespassing sign, and when they ring the doorbell, the woman, Julia, does not open the door. She just tells them to go away. When they say that they’re FBI, she tells them to put their badges in the slot in the door first. [G: Yeah.] So yeah, clearly, very scared about something. And then when she finally opens the door, they say they have some questions about her son.

G: When she opens her door, there's so many locks to it, you hear she's unlocking everything, and it's like, click, click, click, click, click, click, which was a fun thing to- it's fun, the way they showcase it.

C: She denies having a son. But Sam says some more details about Jesse, and she's like, “Yeah, okay, what's up?” And Sam asks, “We were just wondering. Was it a normal pregnancy? Was there anything weird?” And she immediately starts running away from them and freaking out, and they follow her inside. And she starts throwing salt at them, but nothing happens, and she goes, “You're not demons?” And Dean says, “How do you know about demons?” So we get the backstory, and it's- I'm very sorry to this woman that this happened. She was possessed by a demon when she was younger, I guess 11 years ago, 12 years ago, and during that time, she was aware of everything that happened as the demon murdered people. Sam's quick to reassure her, like, “That wasn't you,” but it was still a terrible time for her. During that time, she picked up some information about demons. She knew that salt would hurt them, all that. It was in her head for 9 months, so she was possessed during the whole pregnancy and the whole birth. It was just a horrible time. But the demon was really happy to use her body to give birth to a child, but for a brief second, she was able to take control and poured a bunch of road salt down her throat, and it caused the demon to leave. And it left her with this baby that she sort of wanted to kill, but she didn't. She put him up for adoption. And Dean asks, “Who’s the father?” And she says, “I was a virgin,” which I guess means that there was no other physical human body involved in Jesse's creation, like [G: Yeah. It's the demon.] the demon was just able to do something. Yeah. I don't know, they show flashbacks of the pregnancy, too. So it's very- I don't know. You see her scream. It's all very disturbing, I suppose. She asks after Jesse, “Is he human,” and Dean goes, like, “His name is Jesse. He lives in Alliance, Nebraska, and he’s a good kid.” And then Sam and Dean just leave without telling her about anti-possession tattoos. [G: Literally!] They could have drawn one on her with a marker. That would have saved the whole situation, I think. Or devil's traps, or anything like that. Especially later, when Cas tells them like, “Oh, the demons are gonna be after this kid,” someone should have called her and told her something.

C: Danica and I often talk about how, like, if some hunters, if their only job was instead just to like, graffiti-tag places with, like, devil's traps and like, try to get anti-possession tattoos trending on TikTok, like, that would probably do way better than literally anything Sam and Dean do solo.

C: Dean says that they need help, and when they return to the motel, Cas is there! [G: Ah!] They called him.

G: He's so cute, too! He's so cute. He's extra cute this episode.

C: Yeah, it's to make up for the fact that all he does is be an asshole.

G: He tries to kill a kid, yeah.

C: [laughing] I was just thinking about him blaming Sam for the apocalypse, but you're right. He also tried to kill a kid. [laughs]

G: It is so funny, like, the entire time he was talking to Sam, I was like, "Rich for the guy who let Sam out."

C: Yeah, who opened the door! Like, come on. I mean, this is just the whole like, "Oh my god, Dean, you made me lose all my powers, 'cause you made me help you!" [laughs] Like, this is just him blaming everybody else for choices that he made and wanted to make. Though he didn't want to make the Sam choice to let him out of the room. [G: Yeah.] Cas says that "It's lucky that you found the boy 'cause we have to kill him." And Dean's like, "Cas." And Cas says that, you know, this child who's half demon and half human, is way more powerful than either. "You know him as the Antichrist." And then, you know, he sits down on the whoopee cushion, and it's just not particularly funny, but Dean goes like, "Who put that there?" [G laughs]

G: And Cas goes, "That was not me."

C: Okay, so you think this is funny.

G: Well, I think it's- I think they're cute. Like, the three of them. It's Team Free Will! Oh my god! It's Team Free Will.

C: It's true. It is Team Free Will.

G: And Cas tries to kill a kid. #TeamFreeWill!

C: Does try to kill a kid.He used his free will to try to kill a kid. Good for him. [both laugh] Wasn't this the scene where like, fucking Misha Collins was like, "I don't think this is, like, befitting of the dignity of an angel. [G laughs] I don't wanna do it."

G: Is that true?

C: Did I make that up? Maybe I made it up.

G: I don't think that's true. Maybe you thought it. Maybe [laughing] you're the physical manifestation of Misha Collins.

C: No, don't you dare say that! [G laughs] Jesse is not, like, Lucifer's son. He's just demon spawn, but also one of the devil's greatest weapons in the war against Heaven. And the demons are looking for him. Oh, this is the part. Dean says they lost him "because," and Cas says, "Because of the child's power, it hides him from both angels and demons. For now." And Dean says, "So, he's got like, a forcefield around him," and no! Dean, suspicion slides off him like whatever it is water slides off of. Know your lines better, bro! Soon, he's gonna get more powerful and more powerful until the demons notice him and "Lucifer twists him to his purpose. And then, with a word, he will destroy the host of Heaven." Cas goes, "We cannot allow that to happen." I thought we didn't really like the angels that much. Or at least Dean doesn't. But I guess Cas is an angel.

G: Because the angels here is Michael. So if it's Michael vs Lucifer-

C: Then vote third party! [laughs] But yeah, what's up?

G: If Lucifer is superpowered, then he could just easily defeat Michael. [C: Yeah, that's true.] Which means the Apocalypse would start earlier or whatever. I'm not sure the logic of this.

C: Yeah, I'm not certain. And then [laughs] Sam says the funniest line in the entire episode, like, I had to pause because I was laughing too hard. He goes, "Wait," and he stands up, and he goes, [both] "We're the good guys. We don't just... kill children." [both laugh]

G: Iconic!

C: Ha! Hahaha! Hahaha! Incredibly funny behavior. "We're the good guys" is such a funny- I just cannot imagine a scenario where I would say, "We're the good guys," or think "We're the good guys." It's just- whatever. You could just say, like, "I'm against killing children." You don't have to be like, "It's against my image as a good guy to kill a child." [laughs] Yeah, "I don't want to get canceled on Twitter over killing a child!" And Cas turns to him with a glare. He says, "A year ago, you would have done whatever it took to win this war." like, drinking demon blood, personally, not even doing anything to anyone else about it, is equivalent to killing an 11-year-old! And the thing is like, Sam was like, "I think Dean was right. I'm gonna turn back," like, the moment that he had to drink blood out of, like, a conscious, like, adult woman. Like, he would not have killed a child a year ago. Yeah. But Sam apparently is like, "This is a correct-"

G: Fair comparison, yeah.

C: 'Cause he just goes, "Things change." And, you know, tension is crackling non-sexually, sadly, and Dean sort of steps forward-

G: You think this is nonsexual tension? I was like, "When are they gonna hatefuck?"

C: You think it's sexual? Maybe it is. Maybe it is.

G: Maybe that's what makes them good in bed. [laughs]

C: Maybe it is! So Dean steps forward, and he sort of puts himself between them, and he puts a hand on Sam's arm, which I guess is, like, a nice sort of like- I can't tell if it's like a- I think it is probably a "I'm on Sam's side here" sort of gesture. So that's helpful. That's a that's a good turn of events. And he says, like, "We're not going to kill him. But we can't leave him here, either, so we'll take him to Bobby's. He'll know what to do." Can't they call Bobby and ask him what to do-

G: Right now? Literally.

C: - if Bobby will know what to do? And Cas goes, "You'll kidnap him?" which, like, literally. Like, literally. Good point.

G: He's like, "I can accept murder during children, but I draw the line at kidnapping them." [laughs] [C: Exactly.] And he literally does! He explains his reasoning too.

C: Yeah, he does. Good for him. Oh, Cas! In like, less than 10 years, you're gonna be such a good dad to the Antichrist Part 2.

G: Yeah, that is something that I thought about a lot this episode. Like, Jack. Like, this is the precursor to Jack. This is before Jack.

C: I miss Jack. I look forward to meeting them.

G: I do. I do miss Jack.

C: Cas, who has previously been using he/him pronouns mostly for Jesse, like, switches to [G: It, yeah.] it/its like, so fast, which I guess is just, you know, him trying to [G: Dehumanize.] convince them and also convince himself, yeah. He goes, "What's going on this time is what happens when this thing is happy. You cannot imagine what it will do when it's angry." And then he goes back to "him" where he goes like, "How will you hold him? With a thought, he could be halfway around the world." Foreshadowing! Dean starts with "So we-" but then Sam interrupts, and he goes, "So we tell him the truth. [G: Agh!] You say Jesse is destined to go dark side. Fine." Yeah. "So if we lay it all out for him: what he is, the Apocalypse, everything, he might make the right choice." Oh, Sam! Sam!

G: The thing about Sam is he thinks this is what happened with him, and he made the wrong choice. [C: Yeah.] But like, not everything was laid out for him!

C: Yeah, exactly. Like, he was not given the information. He was given false information on purpose from like, Cas [G: Yeah.] as well as, like, Ruby, and the rest of the angels.

G: And he was on the lookout, and he still got tricked.

C: Aw, Sam! It's a nice moment. But then, see, the thing is like, right, like, we said the point of it is that Sam says "We give him all the information" because the point is that Sam wasn't given all the information, but then Cas does the false equivalency thing again, and they don't seem to question it. At no point do they, like, actually make the connection that I thought they were trying to make, which is that Sam was not given all the information. [laughs] It's confusing. I don't know what they're going for, exactly.

G: Yeah. Well, Cas is being a hater is what they're going for.

C: Cas being a hater. Cas goes, "You didn't." Which, again, not the same situation at all. And he goes, "And I can't take that chance."

G: It is fun!

C: And then Cas immediately disappears.

G: It is fun that Cas doesn't have any pretenses about mirrors. Like, he knows exactly what Sam is doing here, and he's just like, "You're projecting." And he does it- you know, like, he does it- We've talked about how he always brings up John when he's talking to Dean, and he's talking about, like, God because he's like, "And that's the mirror in this situation!" Like, he loves to connect the dots, and he loves to be explicit about it. Good for him.

C: Yeah. Yeah. He'd be great at making parallels gifsets on Tumblr.

G: Literally! He should make AMVs. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. Cas can drop by. I'll show him how to use Vegas Pro 14.

G: I'll show him how to use Inshot. [both laugh]

G: So we go to Julia. She's just about to enter her house. Like, she has unlocked the doors and stuff, when suddenly, the mailman is in front of her. And she got surprised a bit. But this is obviously a guy she trusts, so she's like, "Oh, sorry I'm having a jittery day and all that." And the mailman is like, "Oh, yeah, that'll happen if you talk to the Winchesters," and it's like, "Ooh, this is a demon." And it is. And the mailman is saying like, "We've been watching you. You gave away the kid. We don't know where the kid was. But now we do, because the Winchesters told you blah blah blah. So now let's go to your kid." And then the demon possesses her. And oh, by the way, it's made explicit that this is the demon that was possessing her before.

C: Yeah. Yeah. It's quite bad. Like, they they do do a lot of the sexual assault imagery in the form of the possession, like, you know, he calls her "sweetheart," and he possesses her by bringing their mouths really, really close, so that the demon smoke can go into her mouth. It- yeah. Very sorry that this happened to her. [G: Yeah.] And again, I think it's fine that they did this. I think it's like, an interesting concept, and I think it makes sense to connect it to sexual assault. It's just that the fact that after this happens, like, she never gets to be conscious and speaking again. Like, that is the issue.

G: Yeah, like, I think it's interesting. Really. I really do. But-

C: I think it's a good plot. It's just that-

G: They don't follow through.

C: - they discard her immediately. Like, the narrative does.

G: Yeah. I feel like that is something this episode highly lacks. Like, I feel like a lot of stuff just don't have any good conclusion. [C: Yeah.] Like, Jesse is a good concept. Julia, good concept. Like, pretty much every- like, the case is a good concept. It's just all the followthroughs are like, "Okay, where are we now?" Cas. Cas doesn't even have like a, "Now I realize" portion. He's just like, "Okay, that's it. He's in Australia."

C: [laughs] 'Cause he didn't realize. He was like, "There's nothing we can do about it. I'd still kill that kid if I could!"

G: Yeah, he's like, "Ugh, dammit! I wanted to kill that kid so bad!" That was his realization.

C: Exactly.

G: Now we are at Jesse's house, and his parents are here now, but they're upstairs, asleep, and he's downstairs getting a fucking cup of water. And as he's walking out, [laughs] Cas appears, and he has his hand tucked away behind him. [both laugh] [C: So funny.] And I was like, "That's so cute! That's so cute." And then we-

C: Oh, you didn't know it was 'cause there was a knife?

G: And then we go have a shot of his back, and it's because he's holding a knife, and I was like, "Slay! Good for you, Castiel." [C: Good for him.] So he's like, "Oh, don't worry. Don't be afraid. I won't hurt you." Liar! Or maybe- Also, this is Ruby's knife.

C: Yes, yes, 'cause the kid is half demon.

G: So he stole it- [C: Yeah, he stole it.] Earlier, we see it on Dean, and the reason why I say this is because this was before they entered Jesse's house the first time. 'Cause it was just- the shot was just their bodies, right? So like, they're walking and walking, and somebody pulls aside his jacket, and you see the knife slung around his waist, and I was like, "Oh, that's so cool! Sam's carrying the knife, Sam's carrying the knife!" And then we pan up, and it's not Sam, it's Dean, and I was like, "Oh, okay. [C: Aw!] That's so sad." [laughs] But it also does mean that Cas stole it from Dean specifically, which is pretty funny to me. [C: Mm.] Well, he should have stolen it from Sam. [C: Should have.] Just another thing that he will never tell Sam about forever and ever. [both laugh] Yeah, maybe this is why Sam and Cas were never endgame. This is just not something they can get past.

C: The knife stealing that didn't happen?

G: No, you know what? The knife stealing that did not happen. They can never get past it. But also, like, [laughs] letting Sam out of that fucking room. [C: Yeah. That's fair.] It was the first betrayal.

Jesse calls for his mom and dad, but Cas is like, "Well, they're sleeping, and they won't be waking up anytime soon." [both laughing] God! To be fair- [laughing]

C: I love this guy.

G: To be fair, Cas looks apologetic, and he does say, "I'm sorry." He says, "I'm so [both] sowwy!" Sowwy! And then he raises his knife, and then, just as he is about to stab, Sam and Dean enter. And they ask, "Okay, is there a guy here with a trenchcoat?" And Jesse just points down, and there's a guy in a trenchcoat that's an action figure! [C: Fuck yeah.] And it's like, they really stylize this to hell and back. Like, the trenchcoat is so fluffy.

C: It's billowing, yeah. The face doesn't really look like Cas, though.

G: Yeah, I'll accept it. It's cute.

C: God bless.

C: Okay, so they're chatting now. Jesse asks Dean, "Was he-" like, Cas- "Was he your friend?" And Dean goes [G, laughing: And Dean denies it.], "No! No!"

G: [laughing] Just like Jesus. Denied like Jesus for fucking real.

C: Jesse goes like, "How did I do that?" And Dean starts off- like, Dean's strategy is just lying his entire ass off. And I think in certain situations, it would work. But because this is the Sam mirror episode, where it's like, you do have to tell this kid the truth, it doesn't eventually work out. [G: Yeah.] But at the beginning, Jesse seems kind of taken in by this story, where Dean says that he's a superhero-

G: Just like the X-Men.

C: "And Sam and I work for a secret government agency, so we're gonna take you to a hidden base in South Dakota, where you'll be trained to fight evil." Just like the X-men.

G: And also, he even says, "Bobby is in a wheelchair."

C: Bobby's in a wheelchair just like- Dr. X?

G: Yeah. That's the reference, right? [C: Yeah.] Or is it Magneto? I know nothing about the X-men.

C: I don't know. I think Danica said it was Dr. X or something. I'm gonna look it up.

G: Well, aren't they gay and dating?

C: Who?

G: Magneto and Dr. X. Yes or no. Let's answer this once and for all.

C: Oh, this is so horrible. I looked up "Dr. X images," and it's just porn. [both laughing] I fully should have foreseen this. Oh, okay.

G: It's Professor X!

C: Yeah, he's in a wheelchair. Professor X. I see.

G: Professor X x Magneto. Let's look it up. Are they in love?

C: I feel like we would know.

G: No, I'm pretty sure they're gay.

C: Like, for real?

G: Yeah. Oh, they're like, old besties. [laughs]

C: So, basically the same thing.

G: Yeah, they're old friends, just like, When Harry Met Sally.

C: Harry and Sally.

G: Yeah, okay, they're gay. We have decided once and for all. [C laughs] Congratulations to all Magneto x Professor X shippers.

C: And Dean says, "You'll be a hero. You'll save lives. You'll get the girl. Sounds like fun, right?" Dean Winchester-

G: Will say anything.

C: - What do you think that people want? I mean, maybe Jesse does want to get the girl, but I would not assume that that was a high priority for this 11-year-old who lives alone and all we know about him is that he thinks that itching powder will make you scratch your brains out. Yeah, Jesse, you know, again, seems to be taken in by this, but then suddenly, the demon who's possessing Julia, his birth mother, comes in.

G: Smashes open the door.

C: Flings Dean against the wall, yeah, flings Sam against the wall, says, "They're lying to you." and also tells Sam that like, under orders, it can't hurt him, but hurting Dean is encouraged. Slay. And Jesse yells, "Leave him alone!" The demon starts talking to him, saying that he has his father's eyes. Untrue. They're not completely black. [laughs] I don't know what you're talking about. The demon says, "I'm your mother." and "You're half human, half one of us." And Dean, who has completely given up the superhero gig, goes, "She means demons, Jesse!" The demon starts saying that the people who are Jesse's parents lied to him, and also probably don't love him because they leave him alone all day.

G: I mean, [laughs] they really do leave him alone all day.

C: Yeah, I wish- If we just had seen more interactions, I feel like we'd get a better handle on what kind of a parent-child relationship this is, and that would make more sense for Jesse's emotional journey, but we do not. [G: Yeah.] Alas. The demon says like, you know, "They lied about the Tooth Fairy and how your toys could hurt you and a bunch of other things. Everyone has lied to you, including Sam and Dean. They're not FBI agents, and you're not a superhero. Meanwhile you're powerful, and you can do anything you want. Everyone else treated you like a child, and they didn't trust you. But like, aren't you angry about that?"And Jesse causes, like, the fire in the fireplace to flare up, and the house is shaking. The demon says that Jesse should come with them and just start over in a world without lies. Which- isn't that something Jack does? [C: Yes.] Doesn't he make it so that no one can lie?

G: Exactly, yeah. [C: Yeah, yeah, I remember I read that.] He makes that a reality.

C: Yeah, so this really is the precursor to Jack.

G: God, and it's gonna be Season 13! It's gonna be so long!

C: So far in the future. The whole time, Dean's been yelling, like, "Hey, don't listen to her! Don't listen to her." And, you know, it's not working. But then, finally, Sam speaks, 'cause, again this is his mirror, and he goes, "She's right. We lied to you. But I'll tell you the truth. I just want to- tell-" [G laughs] And he's like, starting to get strangled by the demon. [G: Yeah.] But Jesse goes, [both] "Stop it. I want to hear what he has to say." Sam stands up, and he's very lovely. He apologizes for lying, he introduces himself properly. He says, "We hunt monsters," and then the demon just says, "Except when you are the monster, right, Sammy?" Completely unnecessary. Also, Dean did hunt him, honestly.

G: Yeah, what should be said here was, "Yeah. And that's why you're looking for this kid."

C: Yeah, like, "So you're gonna- So that's why you're gonna kill Jesse! Jesse, don't listen to him! He's gonna kill you!" Like, that's the obvious thing to say.

G: But they DGAF about that. I don't know. Some of the- again, some of the conclusions of this episode are mind-boggling.

C: Very strange, I agree. But Sam ignores the demon, and he says, "And that woman right there, her name is Julia, and she's your mother. But the thing inside of her is a demon." And, you know, the demon's still like, "He's not telling the truth. Don't listen to him." but Jesse forces the demon to sit down. And then Sam explains that there's a war between angels and demons, and Jesse is a part of it, and Jesse goes, "I'm just a kid."

G: Aw.

C: Aw. Were there times when you were a kid that you thought the sentence, "I'm just a kid," though? I feel like it's something that adults put on kids.

G: Yeah. Yes.

C: You have thought the sentence, "I'm just a kid?"

G: I think mostly when people say "That's just a kid" about other kids. And I'm like, "Well, me too!" So I don't know if this is an appropriate thing to think for Jesse, but it it seems to be something that has been on his head, like, being a kid and all that [C: Yeah, that's true.] because it was brought up earlier.

C: 'Cause, yeah, earlier, there was the whole like, "I'm not a kid" when Sam calls him a kid, and then the demon recently was like, "Everyone treated you like a kid." So yeah, I guess he has been chewing on that for a while, and he has landed on, "I am just a kid." Sam says, "You can go with her if you want. I can't stop you. No one can. But if you do, millions of people will die." And yeah, this is him just giving him the information and hoping that he'll make the right choice. It's nice. If this was an adult, they would have killed him by now, [G: Definitely.] but like, it is good to have different standards for adults and kids, I think. I just think that their standards for adults should be a little laxer as well. Jesse goes, "She said I was half-demon. Is that true?" And Supernatural, which cannot drop its biological determinism [laughs] for a single second, goes, "Yes, but you're half-human, too." Demons are also human. Like, they literally- [G: Yeah.] if we're gonna play on Supernatural's playing ground, demons were also human. I don't- whatever. It's fine. And also, obviously, just the biological determinism in general is dumb as fuck. Like, the only thing that the demon, like, "genetics" or whatever gave him was powers. It doesn't mean that you're an asshole automatically. [G: Yeah.] All of this was, like, created through trauma. He tells Jesse, like, "You can do the right thing, and you've got choices. But if you make the wrong ones, it will haunt you for the rest of your life." And Jesse goes, "You're trying to mirror me, aren't you?" [G, laughing: Yes. For real!] He goes, "Why are you telling me this?" And Sam says, "Yes, I'm trying to mirror you." 'cause he says, "Because I have to believe someone can make the right choice, even if I couldn't." You know what? Good for him. [G laughs] If him doing this is, like, helpful to Jesse, then there we go. [G: There we go!] Good for him. And Jesse thinks for a second, and then he demands that the demon possessing his birth mother gets out of her, and it does. And then Jesse is just standing there, and Dean goes like, "How'd you do that?" Jesse said, "I just did it." Dean goes, "Kid, you're awesome." He should have said, "Little boy? [both] Little boy?" [laughs] And yeah, Julia is passed out for the rest of the episode, as I've complained about multiple times, but I'll complain about it again. [G: Yeah.] What the fuck?

G: Yeah. Like, all we get from her is like, Jesse asking, "Is she gonna be all right?" And Dean being like, "Eventually." Which, like, let her speak for herself! [C: Yeah.] Give her a fucking tattoo!

C: Yeah. For real. Also, when Jesse leaves, is she gonna wake up in the house and the parents are gonna wake up with a note on Jesse's bed saying, like, "I left. Sorry." and there's this woman they've never met before- they're gonna think-

G: Maybe Castiel magicked her.

C: Yeah, maybe. I hope so. 'Cause they're gonna think that she killed him or some shit [G: Yeah.] when they find out how that its birth mother. They'll be like, "You kidnapped him, or you came back here to like, kill him or do something to him," and, like, she's gonna be miserable.

G: Dean is now holding [laughs] the Cas action figure. And yeah, he goes, to Jesse, “Well, the truth is, he's kind of a buddy of mine. Is there any way you could turn him back?” And Jesse just goes, “He tried to kill me.” And Dean [C: Like, for real.] goes, “Right. Well, he's a good guy. He was confused.” [both laughing] He literally says “He's just a little guy! He's a little guy!”

C: It’s his birthday, he’s just a little birthday boy!

G: Yeah, maybe this is Dean’s blorbo from his action figures set. What's that? "Well, I forgive him because he has anxiety and his dick is 10 inches long." So true. [C: Yeah, "and throbbing, and I want him to fuck me." Yeah.] Yeah. But only after Season 5. [laughs]

C: What's- Oh, yeah, because that's when Jimmy dies, yeah.

G: [laughs] Yeah, And then Dean finally gives up when Jesse says nothing. And he’s like, “Okay, well, it's been a long night. We'll talk about it next time.” [laughs] [C: Good.] It’s so funny! That is a buddy of his. Jesse asks, “What do we do now?” And Sam and Dean are saying, like, “We will get you somewhere safe.” Dean says, “You'll be handy in a fight, kid.” And Jesse goes, “What if I don't want to fight?” And Sam says, “Well, you're so powerful, and you're more powerful than anything we've ever seen. That makes you-” And Jesse goes, “I'm gonna really push the Sam mirroring this episode,” [C laughing] and he goes, “A freak?” And Sam’s like, “Well, to some people, but not to us. See, we're kind of freaks ourselves.” And then we see a shot of-

C: Don’t you dare- Dean cannot reclaim! [G laughs] Dean cannot reclaim. You do not get to give Dean the honorary freak card. Dean is not a freak. He would not self-identify as a freak, [G laughing] and he doesn't deserve to have the title "freak," given how he treats people that he views as freaks, and how he treated you when he viewed you as a freak. [G: Literally.] Wrong! Sam's allowed to be a freak, Dean is not. He is not part of this shit. Get him out of here.

G: Jesse is finally realizing the gravity of the situation, that he'll have to leave his family behind. And he says, “I don't want to,” but Sam says, “You’re gonna be putting them in danger, so.” And Dean mentions John, and he says, “Our dad, he would take us with him wherever he went, and he's dead now. A demon killed him.” What is [laughs] the throughline here?

C: 'Cause Jesse wants to take his parents with him?

G: I know, but the way this analogy is happening [C: Oh yeah, what’s the logic?] like, what is the logic behind it?

C: Yeah, 'cause Sam and Dean are the parents in this situation, [G: Yeah.] the people who are being brought along. So it's like, “Jesse, you'll die if you bring your parents with you”? What is this? [G: Yeah, but whatever.] Yeah, I think it's just being with your family and a group like that leaves any of you vulnerable, or whatever.

G: Yeah. But Jesse asks, “What should I do?” And Sam says, “We can't tell you. It's your choice. It's not fair. I know.” Jesse goes, “Well, I'm going to say goodbye to my parents.” So he goes.

C: Yeah. And not to Julia, not once.

G: He looks at his parents’ bed, and then he goes to his room, and then [laughs] he goes to fucking Australia. [both laughing]

C: He said, “I want to be Chase from House sooo bad.”

G: He literally said, “I'm gonna be Jesse Spencer.” Maybe this is Jesse Spencer's origin story!

C: Yeah, I would believe that Jesse's parents are- what? Like, far-right politicians? [G: Yeah.] Given all the bullshit they've been spouting at him, yeah.

G: Yeah, Sam is like, “Oh, he's been there so long. Let's go check on him.” [C: Yeah. Maybe he’s fireproof.] [both laugh] And they do. They enter the room, and the kid is gone, and Cas, who is now back to being not an action figure, goes, “He's gone.” Cas says he doesn't know where he is, he just vanished, and he put everyone in town who was still alive back together. And they notice this sign- I mean, they notice the note on the bed, which says, “I have to leave to keep my parents safe. Sowwy.” [laughs] And Cas says, “Well, we can't find him anymore, because he doesn't want to be found, so therefore we can’t.” They're driving out now, and Sam and Dean are having a conversation where Dean asks- [C: Which is just a worse version of the 1.18 conversation.] Yeah, I don't even know- Yeah. But Dean goes, “You think Jesse’s gonna be okay?” And Sam’s like, “Well, I hope so.” And Dean says, “We destroyed that kid's life by telling him the truth.”

C: Like, no, the lying was actually what caused all the problems. And also, you didn’t tell him the truth for most of it, it was the demon.

G: No, you know what this is a parallel to? It was telling Sam the truth about having monsters.

C: Yeah, which is also what 1.18 was sort of about.

G: Yeah. So, I don't know. Like, I see the throughline now that I think about it. Here's the conclusion Dean gets, 'cause Sam says, “We didn't have a choice, Dean,” and Dean says, “Yeah, but I'm starting to see why parents lie to their kids. You want them to believe that the worst thing out there is mixing pop rocks and coke, protect them from the real evil. [C: That doesn’t make any sense as a sentence.] You want them going to bed feeling safe. If that means lying to them, so be it. The more I think about it, the more I wish that Dad had lied to us.” And Sam goes, “Yeah, me, too.” And I don't know. It's just- is this the conclusion to the episode? It's very-

C: We need to know more about his parents- about Jesse’s parents, to know anything. It's good to say that, to lie about that shit? It's not, though! It literally caused people to die. And we have no proof that it's "hiding him from the real evil" or whatever.

G: Yeah, like, maybe he also knows about werewolves. Who fucking knows? [C: Yeah.] But the thing here- This is a fine conversation to have, in this episode even. [C: For this episode? Really?] But for the last scene of the episode? [C: Yeah.] This could be a conversation they maybe have-

C: This is an episode about telling the truth, and how lying caused the problems.

G: This could be something that's in the middle of the episode, you know, [C: Yes.] as they're processing it, they have this conversation, and it could be meaningful. It's just because it's at the very end. [C: Right.] It has no music. [C: So this is the takeaway.] It has no music. It continues on to the credits, no music, and it's like, they're trying to do something here, and it just doesn't work [C: It does not.] because this is not the place or time in the episode anymore to be having this discussion. [C: Right.] So, yeah.

G: Well, what did we think about this episode?

C: I think it was pretty good. [G: I think it was good.] It just didn't wrap things up very nicely. [G: Very niceys, yeah.] It failed at all that.

G: Failed at that. But otherwise, I think it's a fun episode. Or at least it was characteristic of what makes Supernatural enjoyable to watch on an episode-to-episode basis. Well, Best Line/Worst Line.

C: The line where Sam says, “So we tell him the truth," and all of that, and yeah, "If we lay it all out for him, he might make the right choice.” It's nice. Oh, Sam.

G: Well, I would put that also, but because you already put it, I'll just say, I like the "buddy of mine." “He's kind of a buddy of mine.” [C: That’s cute, yeah.] I think it's cute. I think it is cute. The worst line, I think the “Eventually.” When Jesse asked, “Is she gonna be okay?” and Dean says, “Eventually.” I hated that.

C: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I think it is supposed to be a thing where Dean automatically wanted to say “Sure, yes.” But then he's like, “I'm gonna tell the truth and say 'eventually' instead,” but it's like, this should not be about how Dean deciding to tell the truth to Jesse. This is about Julia! but it's not, 'cause Daniel Loflin and Andrew Dabb just hate women so much. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, I agree with that one. That is my main issue with the eppysode.

G: Okay, well, what's our spreadsheets? Spread those sheets.

C: I feel like dropping the ball on Julia deserves like, a point. Like, not that many 'cause I don't think it's intrinsic. It's just the-

G: I think it's 2. I think it's intermingling with- between intrinsic and not. [C: Yeah, yeah.] Racism is 0. [C: Yes.] And homophobia, how would you like to read this?

C: The Tooth Fairy, I think, counts as a mix of transmisogyny and homophobia. I think if we had more clarity on exactly what was up, we would be able to better classify it.

G: Yeah. I think this kind of falls under my “Just because they have a character who is queer or presents as queer doesn't make it homophobic,” but I think I can safely say that this is supposed to be a funny thing.

C: I think we’re supposed to think that this character is so scary and weird [G: Yeah.] And it adds to the scariness and weirdness [G: Because it's weird, yeah.] because it’s a man wearing a tutu. A 1 makes sense. Great.

G: So how about our IMDb? Or IMDb guesses?

C: I need to not do such a bad job this time. This is a case of- “Fallen Idols” was low, but partly because I hated Paris Hilton. I think it's pretty good, and I feel like the concept would be interesting to people, but they might also find the Sam mirror stuff irritating because a lot of people don't like Sam right now. So I'm gonna put it below “Free to be You and Me.”

G: People do? I thought it was just me!

C: Okay, maybe just that one person.

G: [laughing] It was just me and that one IMDb reviewer.

C: Yeah. So okay, I'm gonna go 0.1 below “Free to be You and Me.” I'm gonna go with an 8.4.

G: I'm also actually going to go with an 8.4. But should I change it for some variety?

C: No, we can do the same thing as long as [G: Okay.] as long as you were thinking it beforehand. Yeah, it doesn't do anything for our competition, though.

G: Yeah, I'm still winning, I think.

C: Oh, definitely, I think.

G: Okay, let's see. Ha! It's an 8.5. We're both near.

C: Okay, okay. So I benchmarked it alright. That's good to know.

G: Yeah, people wish they revisited the concept later.

C: Yeah, 'cause it seems like Jesse could come back, they could run into him again.

G: Yeah, we never see Jesse again after all these years.

C: Or if there were more Antichrists created or something? Yeah.

G: Yeah. This one says that “the conversations with the kid were boring and a little cringey.” We have a Sam mirror hater in the house.

C: Yeah, they don't understand.

G: This one doesn't have many reviews.

C: Yeah. Yeah, no one’s saying shit.

G: To be fair, prior to this we had “Fallen Idols,” and prior to this we had “The End,” and prior to this we had “Free to be You and Me,” so you understand that those ones are going to be review-heavy, and this one probably isn’t.

C: This one says that “Cas is obviously confused, as Dean puts it. He is alone now, with no orders to guide him, and he must figure out how to manage on his own. But he's stumbling along the way” is how they characterize his decision to kill that kid. [G: Yeah.] I think Cas just really just did want to kill that kid. [laughs] I don't know if he was stumbling. I think he’s just a guy who wants to kill that kid.

G: Perhaps. I think Cas may just want to kill a kid. Any kid, really.

C: Yeah. Oh, and they're congratulating the actress for Julia for doing a really good job playing both the demon and Julia. That's true. I didn't even think about it as they're the same actors. They were very good.

G: There are performances that are very good on Supernatural in terms of possession, where I'm just like, “Oh, that's just a different actor.” [C: Yeah.] It's literally not. But this is one of them. Yeah, it was really good.

C: Yeah, no, that was good.

G: Yeah, so I think that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 7: "The Curious Case of Dean Winchester." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

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