#there’s some nuance there that they are pretending doesn’t exist
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Seattle public library saying that it’s not their fault anti trans speakers use their meeting rooms for public events…dude we are watching genocide in real time and you’re quibbling over censorship? at at this point you cannot afford to let Known Homophobic/Transphobic Activists use your space and then whine about this behavior meaning you aren’t invited to pride. Give me a fucking break. This is so juvenile.
#oh you want to avoid censoring known hate activists? first of all that means you aren’t a safe space for trans people. period.#second of all choices like that have consequences.#seattle public library#I understand the censorship argument when it’s a book but not when it’s an EVENT designed to push books onto kids and enrich the authors#there’s some nuance there that they are pretending doesn’t exist#one is like…you will log onto twitter and see this same evil content. I’m not wasting my breath. but an event? fuck you#‘read what you like’ well I can’t go to the library to read what I like if you’re allowing people who want me to die to use your space#like? am I going insane?#I’m sure other people have better calmer takes on this but wtf#transphobia tw#sorry
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Going back to this debate
I know Ellle is a multifaceted individual that much is obvious she’s not one dimensional she has many elements to her personality. Additionally, it’s important to remember that even on the spectrum of masculine and feminine, Ellie isn’t completely one or the other. She exists in some sort of grey area between them, embodying both masculine and feminine traits. She’s not defined by one end of the spectrum, but rather by the interplay of these two extremes.
Yet at times the characterisation of Ellie is laced with internalised misogyny. And highlights the way “masc presenting” lesbians are treated in real life tied down to the “man” in the relationship why is Ellie mostly written as the dominant one especially when coupled with fem reader why do we head canon her as a top when it’s literally canon that she’s a switch? Why is there an infinite amount of “ellie taking care of the reader on her period” scenarios outnumber “Reader taking care of Ellie on her period” Ellie written as tall towering over fem reader and not like she’s literally 5’5
The fact is that there’s a heteronormative slant to the way people write her. Like I said almost never written as a switch, but a top. To some extent been portrayed as tall and dominating, never small or vulnerable. And Santa Barbara Ellie is often sexualized even though she is deeply traumatized and emotionally tormented. The problem is that people are viewing her through male-centric lenses, reducing her to an object of desire rather than a fully fleshed out woman with a complex, nuanced personality which includes many dimensions, some of which may be considered feminine.
There is no specific way to be a “masc lesbian” a woman nor feminine and express your femininity. Nor should that separate her from her womanhood/femininity. in a way it’s her way of showing how feminine she is. maybe not stereotypically through outward appearances, but her general identity. she’s a woman who experiences the same struggles that women do, Obviously she doesn’t waver just on the lines of black and white, she’s all rounded. In between. Grey area. The point I’m trying to make is that she’s all and above, you can be both masc and fem. I would add that Ellie's femininity is often overlooked or even belittled by people who only focus on traits that appeal to them. Not her emotional intelligence, her caring nature, her resilience, her dedication to her loved ones. Fuck she’s also a soft heart and a tender soul. These aspects of her are just as important to her character, she is a whole person ffs, exceptionally fleshed out
So fuck
“the hot wife and her hot boyfriend”
Why not
“The hot wife and her hot wife”
“She’s so boyfriend
Uh
“She’s so girlfriend”
Santa Barbara/Seattle is literally at her most vulnerable, disheveled state that girl is literally plagued with trauma, stuck in a limbo of “do I seek vengeance in the name of losing my family and absolutely everything or stay and suffer in silence (at who’s expense?? Hers) Yet we sexualise tf out of her, the most vulnerable pinnacle of existence—glorified and romanticised bc it’s “hot”
this is not a dig at anyone you’re free to write whatever tf you want bro it’s your platform but pls let’s not bs and pretend as of this doesn’t occur
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by settler/coloniser do you mean like, west bank settlers and the like (i mean actively settling or whatever. i hope you understand what im trying to say) or like all descendants of settlers who may no longer have a settler role like idk some guy in jaffa whose grandparents were settlers but he himself is just. a guy and doesn't own property etc etc.
asking bc in the first sense i fully agree with you but i saw too many leftists embrace a practically ethnic definition of coloniser which i find rather disagreeable
ps this is not meant to be like an attack i am curious
First of all this is how I personally view things and I’m Algerian not Palestinian so my definition is not a rule. At the end of the day my opinion, our collective opinions don’t matter in the scale compared to Palestinians’ opinions. I’m still choosing to answer because I don’t think Palestinians should carry that burden alone BUT if a Palestinian read this and think I’m overstepping send me a DM I will delete my post without any arguing.
Now to answer the actual question. All Israelis are settlers excluding the rare Palestinians who have the citizenship but then those are Palestinians not Israelis. Settlers = colonizers = non indigenous people permanently living in a settler colony.
The difference between the settler in the West Bank and the settler in Jaffa is not that it’s them doing the settling or their grandparents. Both live on stolen land that does not belong to them and never will. So both are settlers. The difference is somewhere else. The settler in the West Bank is fucked. He is unredeemable because he is doing the colonizing himself right now. He should leave that’s the only option. Now the guy in Yaffa there’s more nuance to it.
That guy whose grandparents were settlers and therefore stole Palestinian land… he is still living on stolen land even if he is not a land owner even if he didn’t do the stealing himself… he is still benefiting from settler colonialism. He doesn’t get to just wash his hands and pretend he is not involved because his grandparents did it not him.
Is he actively fighting against Israeli colonialism? Is he in favor of giving ALL the land back to indigenous people aka Palestinians with the right of return for the Palestinian refugees and one single Palestinian country where those who fought for its liberation could stay and live with equal rights regardless of religion? If the answer is yes he is still a settler BUT he is a redeemable settler he can get rid of his status of settler by helping get rid of settler colonialism. If the answer is no if he just sits there thinking the status quo is good enough thinking the problem is Netanyahu or any other politician when the real problem is Israel itself because it’s a settler colony, then he is a settler AND he can go fuck himself too.
Living in a settler colony as a non indigenous person means that you cannot be neutral. You cannot just exist. You are either a settler trying to end settler colonialism (and in the process put an end to your status as a settler) or a settler supporting settler colonialism.
The “suitcases carriers” I mentioned. They were still settlers (excluding the mainlanders who helped Algerians in France). They just made the right decision and stood for the liberation of Algeria. That decision led to the end of French settler colonialism which put an end to their settler status. By fighting to end settler colonialism they freed themselves of being settlers. It even allowed those who wanted to stay to do so and stay as Algerians.
Lastly I want to add that a settler colony cannot create people who do not have racist bias against the indigenous people of the land they occupy. So one also needs to actively work to unlearn those bias because even settlers who fight for the liberation of indigenous people have those bias.
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I honestly resent the “adhd and autism are superpowers and only struggle because of capitalism” narrative, and I find it deeply flawed and lacking in nuance to the point of being harmful.
Adhd and autism both exist on a spectrum. They are each their own cluster of traits/symptoms, and those exist in varying degrees based on the individual. Are there aspects to adhd and autism that are advantageous? Absolutely, but we can’t pretend that they exist in an advantageous way in all of us. Some people do have the “right” traits, dialed up to the “right” intensity, and that might allow them to take advantage of their neurodivergence in a way that helps them succeed.
That isn’t to say that they don’t also have struggles due to living in a neurotypical world as an adhd’er or autistic, but they might be able to overcome it. Another person may have all the adhd or autistic traits dialed up to 100, to the point that it’s too debilitating for them to take advantage of any positives that might exist. There are high support needs autistics, for one example, who regardless of whether they had to work to afford to live or not, would still need help with living. Help cooking, cleaning, bathing.
I have “severe” adhd and while I don’t have an official autism diagnosis, I know I am autistic. I never related to the energetic, social, novelty-seeking picture that is painted of people who have adhd. My autistic traits cancel out the “positives” of having adhd, while my adhd traits cancel out the “positives” of being autistic. I’m too burnt out and exhausted all of the time to put forth much mental energy. I freak out when things aren’t predictable. I can’t function if the room is too cold. I can’t eat if my food is too cold, too squishy, too chewy, doesn’t have the right sauce available, doesn’t have the drink I like with that particular food, etc. My interests are very narrow so I don’t have the typical adhd love of variety. Yet I also can’t stay organized or follow a routine. I can’t recall information properly when I need to. I’m not patient. I forget things that just happened 30 seconds ago. I can’t plan to save my life.
This also ignores that some people have no comorbidities or they only have one or two. Some have several to contend with. Some of us have learning disabilities. We aren’t all former gifted kids that just can’t follow traditional structures or sit still in class or at the office. Some of us are legitimately debilitated in all aspects of life. Some of us aren’t just struggling with going to a 9-5…some of us can’t even keep a 9-5 because of our symptoms.
Does capitalism make things significantly harder? Absolutely. But if capitalism were to vanish tomorrow, I still wouldn’t have the executive functioning to keep my space clean, to make myself food, or to stay consistent on my own chosen projects. I would still struggle with arfid. I would still have a delayed circadian rhythm. I would still struggle to make appointments and make phone calls for myself. And I would still struggle to connect with others or make friends with people who might help me with these things.
#actually autistic#actually adhd#mental health#autistic#autism#neurodiverse#adhd#adhd in women#undiagnosed autism#adhd in adults#adult adhd#actuallyadhd#actuallyautistic#executive dysfunction#severe adhd#ableism#actually neurodivergent#autistic burnout#autistic adult
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Rin, identity issues, and the complications of being an isolated, alienated teenager
It feels sort of weird to say but I generally don’t head canon characters as having particular sexualities. Whatever people go for in fics is usually fine with me - gay, lesbian, bi, pan, something more general like queer. As long as it makes sense for the story they’ve built and the character they’ve shaped to fit it, I’m good. Unless you’re ignoring a canon LGBTQ+ sexuality, in which case, yeah, I’ll take issue with that.
But anyway. Rin.
I’ve got my personal ship for him (BonRin my beloved), but regardless of the pairing I see him as bisexual. He’s so open with his infatuation with Shiemi, and okay, sure, fandom likes to ignore the love interest in shounen for the most part because we’ve got gay ships to peddle. But I don’t see the point in that unless it really reads like it’s a front, or a result of a character suppressing themselves for one reason or another. And with Rin, I think it’s pretty clear his affection for Shiemi is sincere. You technically have the in-universe evidence of the demon that brought out his true desires to back that up, but even without it, Rin likes her. It’s complicated because of Yukio and Shiemi’s own inexperience with romance, and yet I never once doubt he really likes her.
That being said… he’s very appreciative of the guys in his life, too. (Peddling my gay ship here) Bon in particular, considering he’s often admiring how cool he thinks Bon is, that his haircut suits him whether it’s the blonde rooster look or the undercut. If you don’t want to see it as romantic interest, that’s your prerogative, but to me Rin comes across as seeing cool and cute as different traits he finds attractive (in Bon and Shiemi respectively).
I also think his bisexuality would fit neatly into his narrative struggles to “pass” throughout the early parts of the series. Rin has grown up as the neighborhood problem child, ostracized for being violent, and eventually he decides he’s fine with just his brother and his father — and the rest of the monastery, presumably — for company. (Except that’s absolutely not true and clearly he’s starved for friendship and support.) People looked at him and saw a monster, even before his demonic heritage made an appearance; why would he bother giving them even more ammunition when it comes to reasons to hate him? So no matter when he figured out his attraction to guys, he’s not going to lean into it, because he also likes girls, right? (Ignoring for a moment that bisexuality is a lot more nuanced than that.)
Rin likes girls, Rin is human — that’s what’s going to get people to like him, or at the very least tolerate him. That he likes guys, that he’s half demon, he can shove that shit down and pretend it doesn’t exist. Lock up any stray thoughts and keep the sword sheathed around anyone who doesn’t already know.
(Excuse me for being amused by Rin wielding his humanity and supposed heterosexuality as a sword and shield.)
The problem, of course, is that he can’t keep up the facade forever. The narrative won’t let him. Rin has to embrace his demonic side, because it’s the only way to move forward and to continue to help his loved ones. And once he’s moved past the issue of his friends being upset over the deception, when they understand he’s still Rin despite what he’d hidden from them, Rin is finally allowed to be himself. He uses his flames, he lets his tail move freely in the open around the Cram School kids. Rin still doesn’t like this side of himself — it’s inextricably tied to every moment of pain and isolation he’s dealt with his entire life, including the death of Father Fujimoto (and, y’know, his mom). But he is moving forward, he’s trying to adapt.
And isn’t that some great fucking subtext for his bisexuality, too?
#king’s court#blue exorcist#ao no exorcist#okumura rin#rin okumura#bonrin#because I love them#anyway thanks for coming to my ted talk#I probably made more sense in my head than I did writing everything out#but oh well#there’s a similar conversation to be had about yukio and his suppression/obsession that develops#but I am not qualified for that one#also I promised myself when I made this blog that I’d try to be engaged with the fandoms I got into#because the one I’d sunk a lot of time and effort into on my main no long brings me much joy and I miss interacting with people#so. uh. here I am I guess#god this is probably less compelling than my season 2 analysis of bnha seven years after it aired
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i feel like all the theories that exist for why aziraphale went to heaven that basically boil down to “he was out of character so here’s what the plot twist is” really cheapen the story and underestimate the depth of aziraphale’s character and his potential. and also underestimate neil’s talent as an author and writer.
neil doesn’t recycle plot twists. he doesn’t do cheap cop out plot twists. he doesn’t leave out loose threads. everything is so carefully thought out and intentional.
i would be genuinely so put off if he wrote a plot twist of “actually it’s not aziraphale it’s crowley” (body swap 2.0 can go die in a hole i hate it) or “omg woah aziraphale was drugged” (one of these days i will write a meta on why coffee theory can go die in a miles deep PIT OF DESPAIR because i hate it even more)
because neil is a better writer than that. neil can and will do better than that. you might think there’s loose ends hanging out but i don’t think there are.
i remember reading american gods and thinking to myself more than once “this scene feels kind of random why’d he include it?” only for it to be actually very important later on in the book. whatever you think is a loose thread right now is more likely something that connects to whatever neil’s got planned for s3.
and also. aziraphale is a more complex character than either of those theories allow him. i’m sorry but if you think that he needed to be DRUGGED to make the decision he did you have not been paying any attention. everything leading up to this point has shown us that aziraphale believes that heaven can be good if only someone (him) can change it. that smile we saw on his face at the very end of s2ep6? that was the smile of an angel who has plans. who knows he can’t go back now, and is ready to gut this place from the inside out.
and body swap 2.0 doesn’t even compute for me. because like 1) body swap happened it’s not gonna happen a second time. and 2) it logically and logistically makes absolutely no sense that at some point in those last few minutes they agreed to body swap and send crowley to heaven. that would completely defeat the entire point of the conflict that is the Final Fifteen, and it would just make it all the more confusing as to why crowley looks so angry at the end? because if it was body swap and that’s actually aziraphale, aziraphale wouldn’t look that mad?? and he’s not even around anyone else so he has no reason to pretend.
and like i get why on some level these theories are fun to play with. but i just can’t shake the feeling that all these theories are on some level rooted in people thinking aziraphale isn’t a complex character. aziraphale has so much nuance and depth to his character, why do you have to convince yourself he was drugged in order to make a nuanced decision?
#anti coffee theory#also anti body swap 2.0#aziraphale apologist#good omens#aziraphale#good omens 2#aziracrow#good omens meta#gomens meta#gomens 2#the final fifteen#ineffable divorce
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The problem isn’t plurality. The problem is the language around DID from plural communities and even the DID community. People who have DID but are in denial may take much longer to accept the diagnosis and work to better understand themselves because they may not be able to relate to how it’s spoken about in online spaces. Particularly people who do not feel comfortable viewing themselves as multiple identities in one. Although that is the most popular representation in both media and online spaces, more often than not that isn’t actually the lived experience. You just don’t see that representation as much because people with it are much less likely to talk about it due to the shame they have around it. Shame is often a major component of surviving trauma. Shame and dissociation go hand in hand. Nuance and awareness are both so important in these types of conversations. It’s sort of similar to how in the autistic community there’s a major lack of representation from nonverbal autistics, despite them making up at least 25% of the total community. The lack of representation doesn’t mean we can pretend to lack awareness of their existence.
I know you don’t believe you’re causing any harm but I’m sorry to say that you are. Which isn’t to say that no harm isn’t also being done to you. It’s just not such a black and white matter. I’m not speaking on behalf of anti-endos. I agree- it’s stupid to hate on a group of people for how they identify. I’m speaking on behalf of highly traumatized individuals who may be looking for answers and wind up getting lost and more confused.
I’m sorry if my intentions with messaging got lost in translation at all. I have a learning disability that affects my ability to process and organize language.
Thanks for the clarification, and sorry for misunderstanding your earlier post.
So let's address this.
Is this a problem?
A problem with this whole topic is, first, that I think we need to see some statistics.
And preferably recent statistics because I think identity has changed a lot in the last 40 years. Maybe there's a silent majority of people with DID who don't view themselves as multiple identities/people offline and are getting spoken over. But I would want to see evidence of that.
Even if some studies from the 80s or 90s showed that most people with DID didn't view themselves as separate people/identities, the advent of the internet age and ability to find community with others with DID likely impacted the culture around the disorder.
Even if this is the case...
Is this our problem?
End of the day, I'm a tulpa identifying as a tulpa. It seems kind of silly to me to think someone with DID would see me, a tulpa who is also plural, decide that because I'm a plural tulpa and people with DID are plural and they don't relate to me, that they can't have DID.
There are a lot of leaps there and most don't make much sense.
And all while the presentations you say are harmful are just as common in anti-endo spaces. Seriously, look at DID TikTok. Almost all anti-endo, and all presenting the way you say is a problem. And with much larger influence than myself.
So this issue, if it is an issue, isn't because of the inclusive plural community, and would clearly exist without it.
I don't think the plural label has anything to do with it.
Community Comparisons:
One of the main mantras you'll find in the plural community is that if you feel plural, you probably are plural. Every system is valid, no matter how distinct your headmates feel. Terms like "median system" were coined to denote systems who feel in between multiple and singlet, and still fall under the plural umbrella.
Meanwhile, the DID community is rife with fakeclaiming and gatekeeping of anyone who doesn't meet whatever arbitrary criteria armchair psychologists made up. All while, again, exhibiting the same types of traits you point to the plural community for. (And yes, you do say "even the DID community" does that. I just think you're underselling it a bit.)
Hard Truth: There will always be DID systems who won't relate to presentations of DID
DID, while having core traits in the way that there will be other agents or parts that can takeover, and there will be some sort of amnesia (under the DSM) is incredibly diverse in presentation.
Kluft wrote a paper outlining about 20 common presentations of DID he identified back in the 90s.
And it can only be assumed that more presentations have been identified since.
The reality is that not every presentation will be represented. Not everyone will be able to relate to every single person with their disorder. And there are going to be some people with rarer, or at least less popular presentations online or in pop culture, who are going to feel underrepresented.
Personally, I think starting from a place of "if you feel plural, you're plural" is going to benefit far more DID systems than it would harm, giving them space to explore their connections with their headmates regardless of how similar or how distinct those headmates feel.
It doesn't matter if they're people, parts, facets, voices or whatever else they decide to identify them as.
There are a lot of things that we don't relate to the majority of other plurals about. But I think the solution is to normalize being able to identify with something without necessarily having to relate to every experience under the umbrella.
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Edward Did A Ton Of Things Wrong And We Shouldn’t Pretend Otherwise. Not Even As A Joke.
I know it’s fun to joke about Edward Teach doing nothing wrong, but I think it’s been taken far too far. His wrongs are serious and major and deserve closer examination.
He fell for a rich landed gentleman, and only the rich landed gentleman, when Frenchie was right there. Frenchie was displaying bravery and insightfulness while stupid fucking Stede Bonnet was laid up in a fever dream, moaning some other person’s name.
Ed didn’t fall on Frenchie and start kissing him when Frenchie immediately picked up on the fact that the French versions of Stede Bonnet had hurt him.
He’s more enamored of Stede’s incitement of chaos and distress on the French boat than he has any right to be with Frenchie right there. What did Stede do? A little reverse psychology that played on their inadequacies to get the French gentry to play the game. That’s it. All the real work was done because Frenchie knew where to go for the dirt, and thanks to connections Frenchie formed. While it was cool that Stede knew how to get them to play themselves by agreeing to the game, it wasn’t a necessary step as the information could’ve been relayed other ways. Plus, Frenchie pointed out to Stede they weren’t all that fancy, so he probably would’ve known how to get them to set themselves up to, and could’ve give Ed the satisfaction of being the one to entice them into the game and deliver the info.
He continues to be interested in Stede and only Stede, while Frenchie is right fucking there! Had he taken the time to get to know Frenchie, he might’ve realized Frenchie could teach him much of what Stede could, but with more nuance and detail.
In conclusion, Edward did everything wrong where it matters. We shouldn’t gloss over his mistakes and moments of bad judgement. They’re a part of what makes him the person he is. It’s uncomfortable to think about, and I have a hard time coming to grips with it myself, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna just hide from reality and pretend the man has no major shortcomings.
He could be sleeping with Izzy and Frenchie, while Spanish Jackie watches and gives directions and tips and joins in if it so pleases her (and if they’re so lucky), right now. Instead, he’s off somewhere nursing the pain left by a man who says “hi all”. If that ain’t a wrong, then right don’t exist.
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The Char Aznable Problem
Here’s a take for the MS Gundam fans in the audience: Using the Zechs-as-Char analogy will actually hinder you in understanding the finale of Gundam Wing.
I know there are unavoidable reasons for the comparison! Zechs is a deliberate homage, that's not in question. But I’d like to argue that taking Zechs’s actions on their own terms is the only reasonable way to evaluate them. Understanding Char’s Counterattack will certainly make Zechs’s performance more nuanced and recognizable, but expecting him to be the same person with the same copy-pasted goals is to miss the purpose of his character.
Neither of their goals make sense outside of their respective settings and character arcs, in the same way that MS Gundam and Gundam Wing are related thematically but are both telling very different kinds of stories in different ways.
Zechs doesn’t do a heel-turn and become a Char just because the hand of the franchise swooped in and forced him to; he does a heel turn and puts on a Char Costume (…mask?) because he is playing the villain, and the villain he is playing is Char.
Why? Because Char from Char’s Counterattack has no place in the universe of Gundam Wing. Standing up and saying Char Stuff™ in After Colony 195 makes you sound like you got the space madness.
White Fang Milliardo shows up out of nowhere with this new kind of racism he just invented and delivers a treatise about how humans from Space have become biologically superior to humans from Earth within a couple generations... in a setting where Newtypes aren’t a thing. There is no established precedent in AC 195 for declaring that space colonists are a super-evolved utopian master race OTHER than to blatantly manufacture conflict.
And like... ding ding ding, that’s the point.
Char from Char’s Counterattack is a complex, disillusioned, flawed man who is trying to make the earth uninhabitable for complex, flawed reasons that he genuinely plans on carrying out.
Milliardo is a complex, disillusioned, flawed man pretending very hard to want to make the earth uninhabitable because it’s an Ozymandias Gambit intended to galvanize all remaining forces to take part in a war that will ultimately burn through all of their military resources.
Char from Char’s Counterattack exists in a timeline where the earth is a polluted wasteland, and the space colonies are pristine, self-sustaining eutopias with ten billion people living in them.
Gundam Wing is a timeline where the earth is pristine, and the space colonies are oppressed dystopian slums with marginal populations still largely dependent on earth’s resources. Staging the KPG 2.0 in this context would be a death sentence for the colonies as well as the people on earth.
Char believes it’s his destiny to punish the people of earth for their selfishness and their inability to change or allow future generations to evolve. Milliardo believes the only thing he’s good for is to rid the world of people like himself, SO that the future generation has a chance to change for the better.
I’ve found that the more I know about MS Gundam, the deeper an appreciation I have for what Wing chose to adapt and where it diverged; I think that some of Wing’s greatest achievements are born from the moments it purposefully broke from its predecessor, and some of its greatest flaws come from when it chose to adapt things that just don't make sense outside of their original context-- I don't necessarily think that Milliardo pretending to be Char is one of those moments.
On the whole, what Wing feels like to me is a poignant echo of the Universal Century, as if we are seeing the reflections, the shared rhythms, of people and struggles across time and reality. Zechs is like a variation of the Char leitmotif transposed into a new composition.
…And anyway, Zechs isn’t even the Char Clone of Gundam Wing. Zechs AND Treize are the Char Clone of Gundam Wing.
The Red Comet is an ace pilot simultaneously admired and hated for his abilities and the respect he commands as a soldier. He has the luxury of being chivalrous on the battlefield because no one can compete with him, and because his ultimate goals differ from those of the ruthless organization that holds his reigns. He has the burden of a spotless reputation hiding a dark, secret purpose. He eventually turns coat and becomes Quattro, a mentor figure to the talented pilots who idolize him and walk the same path he does. The complexities of war erode his confidence and understanding of what is right, of what is actually worth fighting for in a world where the grind of battle never stops, and the same points have to be made over, and over, and over again, paid for in the blood of young people– people just like him, who he encouraged to fight, who had bright futures ahead of them– each and every time.
The glorious Neo Zeon leader is a wheeling and dealing homme-fatale who can play the game of politics, who knows how to put on an inspiring show for the adoring masses, all while getting what he wants through deceit, charm, treachery, abuse of his charisma, even his sensuality. He is willing to do anything for what he views as the best future for humanity– particularly for the humans he thinks are worthy of that better future, all while knowing he is not one of the chosen ones. He will always carry a seed of self-loathing and insecurity with him. He knows that the version of him that people idolize is only a mirage, but he is willing to use that mirage to steer the future where he believes it should go, sacrificing whoever he needs to for an end that justifies any means.
Zechs is the ace pilot. Treize is the glorious leader. They’re both variations on theme of Char.
Char’s story takes place over the course of his lifetime, spanning multiple series-- Zechs/Milliardo simply doesn’t have time to be everything Char was in the time frame of Wing. Instead his influence is played by two people, representing different eras of his life, existing simultaneously and in coordinated opposition to each other.
Nobody can really be Char except Char, and Char can't really be substituted for Zechs or Treize within their own universe. Even clones grow up differently when they're raised in different environments.
#gundam wing#milliardo peacecraft#zechs merquise#char aznable#treize khushrenada#gundam wing meta#gundam meta#parsing post#tinyozlion pgw
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f*ck the antidestiels for continuing to smear and use Jensen the way they do. They’re disgusting. and that includes some of his so-called “stans.”
They blamed the destiel lane for certain accusations when they keep smearing him the same way. It’s the same thing.
This is ugly and it just perpetuates the spread. People new to the fandom see the hate and lies from antidestiels and believe it because they don’t know.
There is no excuse for it. None of Jensen’s past foot in mouth justifies it. Plus some people full on have lied about ancient fandom history despite there being video, despite receipts correcting some of those early first impressions.
And always, always, Jensen’s kindness and supportiveness and respectfulness gets erased.
So as much as there’s some destiel shippers who only use him for a ship and make false accusations, the antidestiels are equally guilty up to their necks for their malice.
And criticism of the destiel lane doesn’t look like this—this unhinged hate and smear crusade, this war against destiel shippers and how antidestiels treat Jensen and Misha. There is no excuse for that.
antidestiels deserve to take their share of blame. But they’d rather whine it’s all the “hellers” fault.
Cowardice is why they hide behind Jensen and use him as a false flag of hatred because they don’t have the guts to have their own opinions.
They pretend they’re doing all this to defend his honor and out of “respect” but they don’t respect him or heed the actual full range and nuance of his views and his kindness.
They’re mad Destiel exists, they’re mad it’s part of the show, they’re mad Misha is vocal about it, they’re mad any time Destiel is seen, they’re mad that Destiel shippers won’t bow our heads and whisper “it’s only fanfic,” and they treat Jensen like an object they use for their own hatred instead of treating him like a human being and they treat Misha like’s he’s worthless, like he’s nothing.
So that’s it. I don’t have to tolerate any of them. F*ck all the antidestiels and their endless concern trolling and hatred and their endless excuses and “this is why everyone hates you destiel shippers” oh stfu already Karen, look in the mirror.
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Episode 12 TMP Quick Thoughts
Housekeeping and Prologue
Hello, this is Douglysium and you might not know me as that guy who wrote over 100 pages of analysis on the Eye (which can be read on Tumblr here (https://douglysium.tumblr.com/post/735599414228484097/the-relationships-between-the-dread-powers-the) or Google Docs here (The Relationships Between the Dread Powers: The Eye- Knowledge is Fear and Ignorance is Bliss)) or as that guy who wrote an article on the Extinction (which can be read on Tumblr here(https://douglysium.tumblr.com/post/717929126195003392/what-would-avatars-of-the-extinction-be-like-a) and Google Docs here(What would Avatars of the Extinction be like?: A TMA Speculation)). Suffice to say I might be a bit of a TMA fan. Also, spoilers for TMP up until episode 10. You can read my ramblings on the last episode here (Episode 11 TMP Quick Thoughts).
However, Protocol offers a very unique opportunity and experience for me because I didn’t actually get into TMA until after it was over and I binged all of it. So this is my first time experiencing something even remotely similar to what the original TMA fans probably experienced when waiting for each episode week by week and slowly having to put everything together with the limited information they had. So I decided to throw my hat into the ring since this might be my only chance to do something similar. However, I’m working on some longer form TMA content so I can’t spend as much time on these articles giving a bunch of super detailed thoughts. I will try to keep these short and that inevitably might mean some could have questions about why I think or predict certain things and in those cases I would probably recommend you read at least some of the two articles I mentioned above to get a better idea of where I’m coming from. This also means I won’t be giving you a play-by-play of every single thing that happens in the episode so I encourage you to listen to or read them yourselves and feel free to comment if you feel something is important.
These reviews are probably going to end up focusing mostly on the Entities and their manifestations as they are what I have thought about the most and spent the most time interpreting and there’s been a lot of… interesting theories floating around about how the Entities are manifesting that I want to go over.
Finally, I’m just going to say it right now, spoiler warning for all of The Magnus Archives. I know that Jon and co said one could start with Protocol and be fine, and while that’s probably true, media like this tends to be made in conversation with or take into consideration what came before it in the irl chronology in order to connect them. While I’m sure you could skip The Magnus Archives, I don't really see the point of skipping over it when we are already getting characters from TMA showing up in TMP in Protocol. So to me it’s pretty clear that if we want to understand the full picture of TMP and all the things it is trying to say then we can’t just try to pretend TMA doesn’t exist or scrub it away. Just because you could understand what’s happening without the context in broad strokes doesn’t mean you're getting all the nuances.
These articles are meant to be quick and short so sorry if there’s typos and if I don’t address every possible question or possibility. I don’t want to repeat myself too much in this series outside of the prologue so be sure to skim some of my other articles.
Episode 12 “Getting Off”
I think this episode is definitely one of the more straightforward Protocol episodes we have gotten so far, so hopefully this Quick Thoughts won’t br too long (but knowing me I probably just jinxed it).
We take in the scene through a CCTV in the breakroom of the OIAR at night. The transcripts clarify that Celia is very tired and searching through the cupboards for something and it is quickly made apparent that she is looking for tea and, since the break room has run out, Sam gives Celia a teabag from a secret stash that he apparently has. Sam then asks Celia out on a date and while she is busy at the moment she does show that she is willing to go out with Sam on “Saturday, 6? under the clock at Leicester Square. That work? We’ll go for dinner- well, breakfast- you know what I mean.” Once again, we see that the OIAR jobs appear to be very exhausting and have odd work hours. I also wonder what Celia’s end goal is. Does she genuinely like Sam or does she see him as means to an end. Is Celia here to help Sam and co or is she here to harm them?
As Celia leaves, Alice walks in and proceeds to make fun of Sam for clearly being extremely nervous as he asked out Celia. Alice says “(normal again) You know it’s rude to have absolutely no game? Christ, all these years and you still ask people out like a baby foal learning to tapdance.” A reference to the fact that she and Sam dated at some point, and how Sam probably acted very similarly when trying to ask her out. Sam does point out “Look it worked didn’t it?” which seems like it could be a sort of double meaning. Sam’s nervous approach got Celia to agree to a date but also Alice presumably agreed to go out with him in the past too.
Sam apologizes to Alice for dragging her to the ruins of the Institute only to fund nothing… well nothing Sam and Alice know about since something escaped the Institute. Sam says he’s done with Magnus stuff and Alice responds with “So you’re telling me that if I had a case full of emails with the title “Magnus Institute re: Samama Khalid – Massive Conspiracy” you wouldn’t be tempted?” to which Sam says no before asking “You don’t, though. Do you? That was just, like, a joke. Right?” Alice then says “Come on, for now let’s just focus on getting you as jaded and apathetic as possible.” Considering that Alice does appear to be pretty jaded about listening to the cases and piecing them together this could be related to her point about ignoring the talkers and not getting caught up in thinking too much about what’s happening.
NORRIS starts expositing the next case
“Claim Review: EL-56920
Policy Holder: Soho Jack’s Ltd.
Policy Number: 548651-656
Policy Type: Employers’ Liability
Site Address: Soho Jack’s, 9 Carlisle St, London W1D 3BK
Affected Employee: Ms. Jordan Bennett
Date of Incident: 9 March 2024
Incident Location: On site.
Documentation: Crime Report – Submitted
Medical Practitioner Report – Submitted
Incident Book Entry – Submitted First Aider’s Report – Submitted
Supervisor’s incident Report - Submitted
HSE communications - Submitted
Health-And-Safety policies - Submitted
Employment Contract - Submitted
Claim Valuation: £1,560,000 Assessment
Conclusion: Claim Denied Reason: Fraudulent claim (see incident description and police report)”
This, along with some information Jordan mentions later, means Jordan is suing Soho Jack’s Ltd. They go on to say that their lawyer has advised them to cooperate with Soho Jack’s insurance claim as a show of good faith, even if they’re planning on “suing your asses to kingdom-come.” They start recounting an event that occurred on the company’s property and apologize for their terrible handwriting (which we later learn is probably because Mr. Bonzo bit off one of their hands).
They go over how they started working at Jack’s in the spring of 2021 after they had finished Flair Academy. After struggling to find a job they managed to get an interview and then job at the aforementioned Jack’s. The club seems to have a good reputation as Jordan refers to it as “the Soho Gentleman’s club.” The company’s building “...has dances on the bottom two floors with VIP suites for hire above with a dedicated bouncer keeping them separate. Really, it’s just a quieter box with a private bar, some comfy chairs and the option of private dancers.” Despite this being “THE” Soho Gentleman’s club Jordan says “It’s always booked up with swank dickheads trying to show off, but Stags are the worst: they’re cheap, they’re loud, they drink too much, tip too little and only ever hire one dance for the groom. Plus there’s always some “nice guy” that won’t shut up about exploitation without even bothering to stop staring.”
Jordan begins to explain how the party the specific party that led to them wanting to sue Jack’s. They state that this specific party’s lot was not the worst and were “Just a bunch of heavyset, middle-aged lads with names like Ozzer, or Rozzer or whatever. ” and notes that “The groom was fine, acted embarrassed even though he was obviously keen and they were easily pleased. ”
“They started giving the groom gifts. Same old tat as always, cufflinks, poo gags, all the standard stuff. Then the groom spotted the last one on the table, this cheap yellow and purple kids lunch box. It looked old and shoddy and no one admitted to bringing it but the groom just squealed with glee and carefully opened it before pulling out a bunch old souvenir merch. Pencils, postcards, keyrings, all sorts of crap, all the same yellow and purple and last of all a cracked CD case. When they saw it the whole bunch gave this big laughing cheer.” I have talked about how I think Mr. Bonzo is probably tied to The Stranger if we view him through the lens of Smirke’s 14. I will retread some of those reasons later but right now I want to point out that no one admitted to bringing the Bonzo CD. It could simply be that it’s a prank and someone happened to grab an artifact or something tied to Bonzo, and maybe someone from the OIAR even planted it there, but it could also be connected to the idea of The Stranger and the fear of the unknown because it could be that no one actually knows who got that CD.
We also know that The Stranger is no… stranger to dropping off or delivering strange artifacts in order to feed on the fear of people interacting with unknown /mysterious objects. Breekon and Hope’s delivery service are a good example of this (strangers that show up and drop off never before seen or uncanny objects and artifacts).
“I could see which way the wind was turning and sure enough the bestman came over and asked if he could play it. The cover had this awful comic sans title: “Mr. Bonzo’s On His Way” and I wasn't exactly thrilled by this.” Jordan explains that “Mr. Bonzo was way before my time and from what I had seen online he had always looked pretty messed up. But hey, it was their night, if they wanted to spend it on some cringy nostalgia trip, who was I to say no?” Which could mean that Jordan doesn’t know a lot about Mr. Bonzo, and lack of familiarity with something is one of the things that we know entities like The Stranger love to prey on.
“This kind of thing happened often enough that we kept a battered old CD Player in the back that we could patch into the room's speakers, just in case. So, I ducked back there, put it on, turned the volume down as low as I could get away with, and prayed it wasn’t too obnoxious. Immediately the cheering children’s voices blared out the speakers accompanied by bouncy tubas loud enough to drown out the rest of the club’s music. It was awful but I could hear the lads stamping the floor in rhythm and as the kids started singing the men were singing along: “Mr. Bonzo’s on his way, he wants to stay, he wants to play! Mr. Bonzo’s on his way, he wants to stay, he wants to play!” If you want to listen to the song Jordan is referring to it is actually available on Youtube: Mr Bonzo (from 'The Magnus Protocol'). Maybe you can put yourself in the shoes of an annoyed Jordan or ecstatic old man at the club.
Jordan clearly finds the song annoying and after waiting a minute, in order to avoid being a “total killjoy,” they decide to turn off the song before “ Derek came down from the office to “have a word.” I assume Jordan meant Derek would complain about the music. However, when Jordan turns the CD player off it “...just grew louder, rattling the glassware in the bar: “Mr. Bonzo’s on his way, he wants to stay, he wants to play!” I even yanked the cables from the speakers, but it just kept getting louder.” Obviously, something supernatural is going on but Jordan reasonably assumes that the player just broke and begins to reach for their walkie talkie in order to call for some tech support. However, as they do so they are interrupted by a massive crash coming from another part of the room followed by a cheer. Jordan gets ready to reprimand the party goers for whatever mess they might have made but instead sees Mr. Bonzo. “It was hunched in the doorway, a bulbous figure with a purple hat that cast crazed shadows in all directions thanks to the club’s lighting effects. Then it doffed its hat and pushed itself into the room, foam catching on the doorframe with a squeak that set my teeth on edge. Its massive bulbous google-eyes seemed to roam all over the room before settling on the groom and it was almost as if the huge toothy grin grew wider when it saw him.” We know that Gwen delivered a name and address to Bonzo and in the previous episode Lena even tells Gwen “I’m sure you’ve already worked that out. But just in case you haven’t, keep an eye on the case loads over the next few days. It should become abundantly clear.” Implying that this could be the case Lena was alluding to or that the groom (or someone else in the room) is Bonzo’s target (but it’s almost definitely the groom).
Everyone in the room assumes the appearance of Bonzo is some sort of gift or prank and “The rugby boys were tripping over themselves to get in and hug it, laughing and pushing the groom to the front and so I figured at that point it was a prank. Again, none of them took credit for it and there was a moment of genuine hesitation, until one of them yelled out “It's ya lapdance, Baz!” and they all fell about laughing.” Jordan is furious that a coworker named Joey presumably let Bonzo in and the idea that Joey might have bailed on Jordan again by “ducking out for a smoke.” But as Jordan moves forward they notice something- “I began to stride over, readying for the inevitable complaints then hesitated as I saw something far more unnerving than the ugly costume that was capering with the groom in the middle of the group. There was a pair of heavy boots on their side, poking just inside the still open doorway. Joey’s boots, and they weren't moving. Just then the google eyes looked turned to me, and a puffy finger raised cheekily to its mouth.” So Joey was killed by Bonzo and all the while “the men had all started chanting “Bonzo! Bonzo! Bonzo”, stamping their feet and banging the tables in a circle around the pair in the center…” and the music kept getting louder. So loud that it began to sound distorted from the strain the song was putting on the speakers.
Out of all the Entities the Slaughter seems to have a pretty strong connection to music but The Stranger also has a strong precedent for music. For example, The Calliope in TMA is an artifact tied to The Stranger. In MAG 024 (Strange Music) it is mentioned that the instrument has "Be still, for there is strange music" carved into the cover of the keyboard. While The Slaughter’s connection to music is probably due to an association between rhythm and war (think the marching of an army or the phrase “drums of war”) as well as the fear of “violent” music, The Stranger’s connection to music seems to come from the idea of either strange unknown sounds or a song / sound that sounds really uncanny. It is noted by Jordan that Mr. Bonzo’s song grows louder and more distorted overtime which would mean that the song is becoming more and more incomprehensible as it would slowly change into a song with lyrics you couldn’t understand or identify as easily. It could also be that the song sounds uncanny in the sense that it is familiar in some ways but something is off about it.
Jordan tries to call for help on his walkie talkie but can only hear Mr. Bonzo’s theme blaring out of its tiny speaker. Jordan tries to warn everyone and get out but no one can hear him over the music. Bonzo takes the groom and begins to “dance” with him by spinning around faster and faster until Bonzo decides to rip his arms off and even as this act of gorey brutality took place the other party goers present continued to laugh and laugh until Jordan’s scream caused them to realize this wasn’t some sort of prank. Almost everyone begins to yell in terror but some yelled in rage and proceeded to attack Bonzo: “A few of the bigger guys picked up chairs or bottles and began to beat and slash at the thing. It didn’t seem to notice, its bulbous, bloodshot, eyes staying fixed on the groom’s body as it raised it overhead.” Bonzo then proceeds to continue pulverizing the body by smashing it against the ground over and over.
“For a split second, all was still but the music just pounded on, barely recognizable now over the distortion from the smoking speakers as those voices, no longer childlike, still chanted the words “He’s here to stay… He wants to play…”” “Then Mr. Bonzo turned towards us with its head bowed almost reverentially and everybody went silent. Slowly, awfully slowly, it raised its head, titling it coquettishly to one side. Then the seams across its face split revealing its gaping maw filled with even larger, sharper teeth.” Jordan admits that they don’t remember much about what happened after that but “I dream about it most nights. In the dream it digs through all those men to get to me, grabbing fistfuls of them and throwing them to smash against the wall. The strobe fires as its hands plunge into the pile of us and each flash shows a little less flesh between me and it, between me and all those teeth… finally everyone else is gone. I raise my arm to protect myself and it gently but inexorably lifts it into its mouth, smiles and bites… None of us was left whole but I was the luckiest. All I lost was a hand, it wasn’t even my dominant one.” The biting was set up previously in episode 10 when the transcripts mention “Gwen holds out the envelope and Mr Bonzo snatches it into his mouth, audibly chewing it. His teeth are not soft.”
Jordan says that they “told the investigators everything I know, doctors too. I don't know why nobody outside the room heard or saw anything, why the cameras weren't working, why it let me live. But I do know why there weren't any bodies. All I actually want is my hand back so I can tend bar but that isn’t going to happen is it? So I’ll have to settle for the next best thing and sue you for everything I can get, because I don’t know what happened that night but it was in your venue and no one came to help. Not Derek, not another doorman, no one. So yeah, you’d better have one hell of a settlement waiting for me, or I'll see you in court.”
While you could make an argument for themes of Entities like The Desolation, Flesh, Hunt, etc. I’m still going to primarily argue for Bonzo being tied to The Stranger or a similar Entity due to what we see in his previous appearances. For the sake of clarity, if there is any debate about what The Stranger embodies in MAG 200 it is stated “And as they learned to know their friends and kin, so too did they learn to fear the unknown figure, the coming of the stranger” and in MAG 092 (Nothing Beside Remains) Jonah tells Jon “We thrive on ceaseless watching, on knowing too much. What we face is the hidden, the uncanny, and the unknown.” while in MAG 111 (Family Business) Jon says “The Stranger is the unknown. The uncanny.” and Gerard doesn’t correct him.
However, a lot of Mr. Bonzo’s behaviours in previous episodes resembles The Stranger (and The Stranger has violently attacked or killed people in the past). Mr. Bonzo is also described as being a clown. Something we know The Stranger has a precedent for manifesting as, probably due to both the idea of the uncanny valley being achieved with a costume or makeup and the idea of a traveling circus full of strangers you don’t know from out of town in addition to a clown costume acting as a disguise that can obscure whoever is wearing it. Not to mention that Mr. Bonzo is described as a suit, which could very easily connect to an Entity like The Stranger. Firstly, The Stranger tends to have a big emphasis on wearing things like skins and suits. Additionally, Gwen mentions in episode 11 “That… abomination wasn’t a costume. That was skin. It was sagging, it was sweaty!” and we know The Stranger has a tendency for wearing skin, skinning things (such as with taxidermy), etc. as a form of disguise, in order to hide itself, or to metaphorically rob something of their identity.
This also applies to costumes in general since usually wearing costumes or disguises can actually obscure who is wearing them and thus their true identity is unknown. There’s also the fact that costumes themselves can easily fall into the uncanny valley. Ever since Five Nights at Freddy’s became popular there’s been an uptick in horror media focusing on how creepy and uncanny things like animatronic suits can be. Not that Mr. Bonzo is an animatronic but it is a suit. Also, Bonzo apparently has hard teeth and having solid teeth on a suit could look uncanny.
The surprise gift and sudden appearance of Bonzo that others assume is some sort of surprise or prank could also tie into The Stranger and the idea of something mysteriously appearing or not being expected. Bonzo was originally made to prank celebrities. As Nigel explains in episode 10 that his produce ““inviting a famous person on, someone really serious, and we tell them we’re going to have them do a segment with a popular children’s entertainer. Now, obviously these folks won’t have any idea about what kids are actually watching, so we could come up with the most horrendous thing, claim kids loved it and see how long it took for the guest to realize that they were the joke. That they’d been “berried”” and “The problem with a surprise prank is that doing it on Saturday night primetime means pretty soon everyone knows about it, and the guests knew it was coming. A couple even requested it. So the prank part of it sort of died, and he just became an SOS mascot. One of my many tormentors in the dungeon. By the end we’d even retired Mr. Six, and it was all Bonzo.” Once again, a focus on surprise and I think it’s interesting that Bonzo loses his punch the more people know about and understand him. Bonzo is a character that thrived specifically on the guests not knowing who he was and did. So a potential relationship with the unknown again.”
In episode 10 Nigel says to Gwen ““Try not to stare. He doesn’t like it when people stare.” Which could relate to The Stranger. While all the Entities are connected, overlap, and need each other for a ritual bringing them into the world to work, with even seemingly opposing Entities bleeding into each other or having overlapping fears, The Stranger can often have an antagonistic relationship with The Eye and forms of being known. The Stranger tends to thrive off the fear of being unknown so staring at something aligned with The Stranger might make it react negatively. In MAG 092 (Nothing Beside Remains) Jonah tells Jon “We thrive on ceaseless watching, on knowing too much. What we face is the hidden, the uncanny, and the unknown.” In MAG 165 (Revolutions) Not-Sasha says this in regards to The Eye’s Post-Change world “Do you know how it feels? To be – anonymous? And yet known! To have all the sweetest dread I can create tainted by the relentless gaze of that damned Eye. I’ve suffered enough.” So if my theory that Bonzo is tied to something like The Stranger is correct, that could explain a potentially negative reaction to being looked at for too long since aspects of The Stranger often don’t like it when people try to figure out what they are. This could ring extra true if it does turn out that the OIAR is somehow connected to The Eye.
Bonzo’s eating and biting could potentially be linked to The Stranger’s tendency for odd uncanny behavior, like that time Breekon / Hope ate a butterfly. The fact that this monster looks like Bonzo could also be related to the idea of the uncanny, since he would resemble Bonzo but behave and look a bit off. Also, it seems hard to tell if Bonzo is a costume or a monster resembling a costume which makes it harder to know what he is for sure, and The Stranger loves playing up mystery (think how we never know which character is Breekon and which character is Hope from Breekon and Hope in TMA, and Jon describes one of them as “one half of Breekon and Hope”). Also, Bonzo can only say his name which means you never really know what he’s saying or talking about.
Bonzo killing everyone in the room but leaving someone alive is not a completely unheard of idea. The Entities in general often seem to leave witnesses if in doing so more fear is generated and we see creatures like the Not-Them kill and replace people while ensuring that at least one person remembers what the original persona actually looked like even if no one else does. The reason for this is because if the Not-Them’s disguise was perfect and changed every bit of memory and evidence then there wouldn’t be anyone to be afraid of the idea that someone they know has been replaced by a stranger.
Jordan mentions “I don't know why nobody outside the room heard or saw anything, why the cameras weren't working, why it let me live. But I do know why there weren't any bodies.” which emphasizes his confusion about what’s happening. While confusion is often tied to The Spiral, in this case it stems from a bunch of unknown factors and variables, like why there were no other witnesses and why the cameras weren’t working.” As far as there being no witnesses and the cameras failing to work, the Entities are known for usually being on the downlow and not common knowledge but Entities like The Stranger tend to thrive off the fear of mystery and have a precedent for things like mysterious disappearances or hiding people / things. The Calliope I mentioned earlier mysteriously disappeared from the Institute’s archives at some point in TMA and in MAG 092 (Nothing Beside Remains) Jonah tells Jon “We thrive on ceaseless watching, on knowing too much. What we face is the hidden, the uncanny, and the unknown.” Jonah specifically mentions that The Stranger has a connection to “the hidden” among other things. In MAG 102 (Nesting Instinct) Jonah even says that The Stranger essentially hid Jon from him when saying “I was doing everything in my power to locate you. Everyone was working on finding the ritual site.” and “[Irritated] I am sorry, John, that my powers have not yet reached the level of omniscience.” Jordan does say that they know why there weren’t any bodies which implies that Mr. Bonzo probably ate them.
Jordan having trouble remembering exactly what happened actually does have a precedent with The Stranger since the Entity does have connections to memory loss or a loss of identity. In MAG 165 (Revolutions) we see Not-Sasha watch over a Domain that takes the form of a merry-go-round with people fighting over faces. People with no faces must fight over the faces of others to rip them off and regain some sense of identity. When they lose their face it is said “And soon enough they will forget they ever even had one, rest assured; it’s best to step the dance and keep your face secured as much as you are able. Just. Keep. Running.” Jon and co also face memory loss when they interrupt The Stranger’ ritual in TMA and forget who they are and what they are doing for a period of time.
Some other Entities this statement parallels are that of The Slaughter (with sudden brutal and gory violence), The Flesh (via bodily disfigurement by way of losing a hand, Bonzo being described as releasing “some vile mixture of putrid water, rotten foam and rancid meat.” when cut at some point, and Bonzo biting into people), The End (a lot of people brutally die), The Corruption (from the aforementioned vile mixture pouring out of Bonzo), and even The Eye (with the strange and horrifying dreams Jordan is forced to relive over and over resembling how people who give Jon live statements are forced to relive said moments in the form of nightmares over and over). Like always, I have to at least touch on the fact that The Eye doesn’t seem to just be the fear of being watched but also being a witness to something you don’t want to see. Jon can force people to recount and relive terrible moments, Jonah can force information into the heads of people like Melanie and Martin, and in MAG 200 The Eye is stated to have been born from the fear of one’s own eyes showing them too much.
All this being said, I still think the OIAR is somehow connected to The Eye. There’s the cases being like statements but also the fact that they supply sensitive information (such as names and locations) to things like Mr. Bonzo. People like Jonah could almost always know one’s location thanks to their Eye powers and The Eye is connected to the fear of someone / something knowing too much about you (such as knowing where and who you are). I wonder why Bonzo was sent to kill this particular groom when he was just partying? Did the groom know something or overstep some line or was the groom just some sort of offering to appease Mr. Bonzo? How was this person’s name and address obtained? Was it just mundane tracking or something closer to Jonah’s clairvoyance? Nigel acted like he was doing the OIAR a favor so right now it seems like this was a target decided by the OIAR and not necessarily Nigel. Unless you want to argue that the “favor” is aiding in keeping Bonzo pacified, under wraps, or something potentially more mutually beneficial. I wonder if Jordan’s dreams are somehow connected to being directly involved in a case or facing an External of the OIAR? It could also simply be that Jordan is traumatized.
We cut to Gwen and the transcripts say she “is sat at her desk, stunned by what she has just heard.” and she only says “Jesus Christ…” I wonder if this is because the case is unusually brutal or gorey when compared to most others or if she realized there’s a connection between the letter she delivered and what happens in this case. Considering what Lena said it's very possible that some of the cases the OIAR gets are connected to the activity of their own Externals (such as Mr. Bonzo).
ALICE CONT.
“Gwen? Hello?”
GWEN
“(dazed) What?”
Getting sucked into a statement like this and statements having a negative impact on one’s mental state are both things we have seen in TMA. Jon had a hard time stopping once he started a statement and at one point Jon expresses worry that Martin was listening to a bunch of statements for Peter Lukas and his plan in regards to The Extinction. Although, it could be that Gwen is merely shocked.
Gwen explains that she met one of the Externals but Alice seems to think Gwen is just referring to some annoying assholes as opposed to any supernatural monsters that takes the form of beloved childhood characters.
Gwen seems to finally wonder the question that I’ve been wondering for a while now:
GWEN
“What do you think we’re actually doing, here at the O.I.A.R.?”
ALICE
“Apart from mortgaging our mental health for a wage packet?”
GWEN
“We’ve both been here long enough to know this place. We’re not doing good. We’re not just sifting random data. There’s something wrong here.”
ALICE
“What are you getting at?”
GWEN
“You never wonder what the point is? Who benefits from all this awfulness?”
ALICE
“I don’t wonder. I know.”
GWEN
(sitting up) “What? Really?”
ALICE
“(portentous) Oh yeah. I’ve known for a while. What we’re doing here, it’s all part of a grand plan to satisfy one of the most unspeakable evils known to mankind... “
Gwen’s on the edge of her seat.
ALICE
“(almost a whisper) …the UK government.”
In TMA the point of the Institute sifting through statements and stuff was twofold. Firstly, to feed The Eye but also to set up the lynchpin for The Eye’s ritual with the position of the Archivist. I wonder if something similar is going on here but I can’t say since while you could argue that being an Externals Liaison is like the Archivist and shares the role as being a “living chronicle of fear” (especially since Lena remarked that Gwen should show fear via screaming because Externals tend to like that) Gwen had to blackmail her way into that position. I have no idea who was the Externals Liaison before her or if there are other Liaisons, if there even was one(s) before / with Gwen at all. Also, unlike the Institute, the OIAR is explicitly connected to the government and is meant to respond to things (not just watch). So it’s very likely that the OIAR has a role that is different from just “The Mass Ritual / Institute 2.0.” They could still be gathering fear related to the statements and being observed like the Institute in TMA though. However, even the Institute still wanted the Archival staff to do a good job following up statements and stuff. Jon tries to reorganize the Archives after Gertrude purposefully left them disorganized and Tim corrects Jon about some errors he made when reading some statements. The OIAR doesn’t really seem to care how well or poorly their workers categorize the cases and I don’t know if anyone checks.
Alice’s joke about the greatest evil known to mankind being the UK government feels like foreshadowing considering that the OIAR, and by extension all the Externals like Bonzo, are connected to the government.
Alice’s comment “Apart from mortgaging our mental health for a wage packet?” references how stressful this job seems to be.
Conclusion
Yeah, idk. This was a very simple episode overall and it mostly just seemed like it was following up Lena’s point about paying attention to the caseload.
Okay, hold on, before I end this I figured I should actually try to look at the voices in the computer system a bit more closely, since quite frankly, like with the alchemy symbols, I’ve admittedly been neglecting them and not focusing on them as much as I should have. This is because I actually couldn’t tell if there was any kind of correlation between the voices and the kinds of cases they read but a video by Maddie’s Maxis called “This Channel's First Video - The Magnus Protocol Analysis and Theories” (which you can view here This Channel's First Video - The Magnus Protocol Analysis and Theories) hypothesizes that there is actually a correlation. As we all know two of the computer voices sound like Martin and Jon and Maddie argues that the kinds of statements the voices read correspond to something that had to do with the character. For example, in theory NORRIS (Martin’s voice) tends to have statements relating to self-loathing and loneliness. I don’t know what they are feeding Maddie but Maddie is potentially cooking here. So I decided to glance over at some of the statements and see if there are any patterns.
I’m going to start with the theme that seems the most concrete in my opinion. The cases that NORRIS (Martin’s voice) reads seem to often be tied to themes of isolation, losing loved ones, or feeling abandoned. I should make it clear that while I know Martin in TMA is connected to The Lonely I am not saying all the cases NORRIS reads are connected to The Lonely. The mere presence of feeling alone or isolated doesn’t automatically make a statement Lonely related in the same way someone dying, getting attacked, or something taking place at night or in darkness automatically means End, Slaughter, or Dark respectively. Also, it’s important to remember that every Entity, even seemingly opposing ones, have overlap, shared fears, commonalities, etc..
But let’s look at the cases to see if this pattern is really there. The case NORRIS covers in episode 1 involves the Anglerfish, or something resembling it, killing and replacing their romantic partner. Harriet even says “And that voice I have loved for twenty years answered: “Some of him.”” So loss of a loved one.
In episode 3 NORRIS covers a case in which Dr. Samuel seems to feel immense guilt and sorrow about the death of Maddie. Once again, the loss of a close loved one.
In episode 8 NORRIS goes over a report Terrance submits about the effects of brutal liminalism. While no one dies or is replaced in the actual events of the case, Terrance does mention “originally took my role as a night janitor at Forton following a protracted divorce which cost me the majority of my friendships.” So while their partner isn’t dead they did lose a loved one, and if you read my thoughts on that episode you know that I actually think the case has a lot of similarities with The Lonely. The fog, the vaguely familiar but impossible to understand gibberish, people with repeating features, being isolated in a dark void, etc.. Even if you disagree that it’s The Lonely there is still a connection to themes of losing someone close and being alone.
If there was an episode to disprove this theory it would probably be episode 12 since it’s just Bonzo murdering a room full of people. Jordan does say “I don't know why nobody outside the room heard or saw anything” and earlier in the case they mention that they believed their coworker by the name of Joey the doorman might have ditched him again but this definitely feels a bit more like a stretch. Jordan does seem to blame the establishment for what happened and this is because from the perspective of Jordan no one came to help despite how obvious and loud the commotion was. Which could maybe tie into the idea of being abandoned or left alone but this is definitely pushin it and it’s clear that our understanding of what kinds of cases each voice reads might expand as the series goes on.
Maddie argues that CHESTER (Jonathon’s voice) seems to usually cover cases related directly to the Magnus Institute. Which is generally true, CHESTER covers the cases of RedCanary spelunking in the Institute’s ruins in episode 1, and the gambling dice being submitted to the Institute in episode 9 for example. But CHESTER also covers the case about Tom wanting to watch Voyeur in episode 5, the case regarding Hilltop Center in episode 7, Gordon’s encounter with the tattoos and Ink5 during construction in episode 11. It’s very possible that these are just related to the Institute in ways we don’t understand yet, for example some of the characters that appear could be members of the Institute or something, but in my opinion this definitely throws a wrench into some things.
CHESTER seems to have a stronger case for a theme of curiosity and a desire to know in general as opposed to just the Magnus Institute. RedCanary investigates the archives out of curiosity, Tom really wants to see the Voyeur movie for their blog, the narrator explains that they experimented with the gambling dice to figure out how they worked, and Gordon keeps talking about how they “just need to see it. I need to know what’s in the water.” As I’ve mentioned previously, The Eye also has a major emphasis on a desire to know and understand something even if it comes at the cost of yourself and / or other people. Hilltop Center still seems like a bit of an outlier here but while Dianne isn’t spelunking through ruins or anything she does mention that she was looking for people to help her work at the center. Which, while a bit of a stretch, could fit with a theme of curiosity or desire to know in the case of Chester. Or at least the idea of something being searched for as a theme at least.
If you wanted to argue that CHESTER actually related to things being looked for you could say that the case about the gambling dice revolves around the narrator giving the Institute artifacts, and they even say “So yeah, I tell you all about them, how I got them, all that crap and you just… You take them away, right? You accept them? Good. I think. I’m pretty sure that’s how it works. It’s how it worked for me, at least. Put them in whatever vault you like, bury them, drop them in the ocean, for all I care. All that matters is that they’re yours now.” So you could say that the Institute was looking for artifacts. You could also argue that the narrator was looking for people to roll the dice, looking for good luck, or started making their way towards Gary when they found him.
AUGUSTUS has a voice I am not familiar with (and we will get to the popular theory in a moment). I can only recall AUGUSTUS voicing one case, I might be forgetting one or something, so I don’t have a lot to go on. AUGUSTUS could be covering really old statements, as Sam notes the one in episode 4 is from the 18th century, or statements revolving around others climbing their way to their top and doing whatever it takes to do so. It’s kind of unclear until I can see some more AUGUSTUS statements.
There’s also some obvious character associations with this theory. Martin, someone connected to The Lonely, has statements reflecting some kind of isolation or abandonment, Jon, the Archivist with a strong tie to The Eye and someone who was strung along while trying to solve Jonah’s plan and learn the truth about the Entities, has statements involving extreme curiosity or people looking for things, and Jonah, someone who is really old and ruthless (so ruthless that they made the world a fear hellscape in an attempt to avoid death), has had a statement taking place in the 18th century involving someone giving a blood sacrifice to play violin super well.
There’s a popular theory going around that the three voices in the computers are actually Jonathon, Martin, and Jonah, and this definitely seems like one of the more credible theories floating around the community to a degree. AUGUSTUS’ unfamiliar voice could be the voice of Jonah’s original body. Jon, Martin, and Jonah were all in the panopticon when the Change ended which could be the event that got them tied to the computers. It could also have to do with being the pupil of the Eye somehow. Jonah and Jon were both the Eye’s pupil at some point and Jon got his position by killing Jonah to take his spot. It’s possible something weird happened like Martin was about to become the Eye’s pupil after removing Jon from the position, giving them this common link, but I can’t say for sure.
Maddie also points out another big thing to remember in the video. I have mentioned that Annabelle seems generally right about what happens to the Entities’ various Monsters and Avatars after the Entities get pulled into the next universe. Monsters, like potentially the Anglerfish, presumably get sucked into the new universe since they are part of the Entities. Other people may or may not get sucked into the universe depending on how attached they were to the Entity. It’s also possible that they will always just be left behind. However, Annabelle also mentions that it’s possible the Entities will take the aspects of a person that are connected to or are a part of the Entity. So, it’s possible that the parts of Jon, Martin, and Jonah in the computer are not them in their entirety but merely specific aspects of their personality or being. It could literally just be their voices taken by one or more Entities for all we know.
We also know that some Entities, like The End, seem capable of making copies or “memories” of people after / when they die. In MAG 154 (Bloody Mary) Eric states “I know that I’m not really Eric; I’m just a memory someone wrote down. It hurts, most of the time. I don’t like it.” So one could argue that the voices in the computers are not the fully sentient original versions of Jon, Martin, and Jonah but “memories” or copies created by one or more Entities. This could also explain why the third voice might be Jonah even though Jonah potentially died before the Entities jumped universes. This voice could simply be The Eye’s metaphorical recollection of Jonah or Jonah wasn’t completely dead when the Entities switched universes. This also means that the voices in the computers could be more malicious than we first assume if there’s a chance they are in actuality not Jon, Martin, and Jonah or are in truth aspects of The Eye or bits of their personalities trying to achieve a specific goal.
As I’ve mentioned previously, the cases the voices read out don’t seem to be completely random. The second Sam is about to give up his search for the Magnus Institute CHESTER spits out a case that is perfect for reigniting his curiosity with the addition of a new clue, and when Celia takes the job the first case she gets is about Hilltop Center (which could relate to Celia’s questions about multiversal and time travel). I still can’t say if the CHESTER or any other of the computers are trying to help Sam or use him for more nefarious purposes.
I’m not super confident about this being the patterns the computers follow at the moment because frankly there isn’t a lot of cases to go off of, and I need to see more AUGUSTUS. It’s also possible that the cases are more variable or context dependant. What the voices read could depend on the person at the computer, for example: it’s possible CHESTER reads a bunch of cases connected to the Institute because that’s what Sam was most interested in. There are also some cases we don’t have enough context behind yet, for example the mysterious figure in the Hilltop Road case could be connected to something like the Institute in some way, or that some of the voices focus on certain Externals Liaisons, people, etc..
If you want another TMAGP theory video to watch here’s one by Pinkelotje: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX51EHLy7BQ&ab_channel=pinkelotje.
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The Dissection of Hazbin Hotel, Episode One: part 1
Hazbin Hotel is finally coming out and I want to talk about it!
Seems unreal, doesn’t it!? After four years it’s here, and it’s one of the biggest train wrecks I've ever seen with my own two eyes!
Like many people, I used to be a fan. I got into Hazbin at the end of 2021, and stayed with it until mid-2023, when I woke up to the series’ flaws and saw how horrible Vivziepop was as a person. But for that time, Hazbin gave me something to look forward to during a dark time in my life. I was excited for it. I liked the idea it would be a complex, dark, and nuanced look into some dark topics. I was convinced Angel’s trauma would be handled with care, because Addict handled it with care. I was convinced Hazbin would be a show that said “no one is beyond becoming a better person if they just make the decision to try, no matter how much bad they’ve done.” Being set in Hell, where the UNIVERSE ITSELF has given up on the souls damned there (the furthest extreme you can possibly get to), was a good way to exaggerate this conflict.
Spoilers: It wasn’t that! Apparently it was never meant to be that in the first place!
Vivziepop threw out the original premise that everyone loved in favor of a Heaven war! She ripped off the “Rose Quartz = Pink Diamond” reveal with Rosie-Lilith-Eve. By extension, they de-clawed Alastor by making him Rosie’s pawn. (I loved Alastor. I wanted to see more of his deranged self; I wanted to see what he would do when he was proven wrong when redemption was possible.)
When I watched Episode One, I started writing my thoughts down. Then I tripped and wrote 13,000 words.
So I’m gonna post them here as a review! It’s long, so I’m going to break it into four parts.
I can be very forgiving of flawed projects, but in regards to Hazbin, I’m petty. No nitpick is too small. I will compare it to the pilot (because it’s in that Viv-canon-limbo where you need to have seen it but she pretends it’s not canon), and I’ll have tangents and rewrite ideas.
The story-crafting for this show is one of the more important elements to me, so I give a lot of attention to that.
And there will be SPOILERS, including all leaks! So just be careful if you don’t want spoilers or leaks!
Let’s go!
Part 1: //
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:
--Hazbin Hotel opens with a huge exposition dump about the supposed creation of Hell.
And IMMEDIATELY, we’ve run into a problem.
Sometimes, stories will open with lore dumps like this. They can be useful in giving the audience important knowledge, or setting the stage for the world. However, this lore dump provides us with neither of those things.
Even for people who aren’t religious (me), the story of Eden is really well known (even just the pop culture version of it.) That means you don’t need to tell us the creation story at this moment-- What we NEED right now is to understand what this version of Hell is like.
What info do we need in order to understand the setting of Hell that Charlie lives in?
Important stuff like this: Hell functions like a big city with laws, and isn’t like the pop-culture fire and brimstone image we might have; dead sinners manifest with new bodies and are exclusively in the Pride Ring, which makes them the property of Lucifer, and they’re immortal unless killed by angels; angels come down once a year to erase them to keep them from becoming too numerous. Emphasize that it’s like a shitty country, with shitty jobs and leaders, Lucifer at the tippy-top. Emphasize the Sinners’ fear of the annual exterminations -- emphasize that Charlie feels helpless but wants to save them.
Your job as a storyteller is to tell us what we need to know, when we need to know it.
Right now, we don’t need to know why Hell was created – we need to know how Hell WORKS in the present. That’s your goal, to bring us into the world.
The only necessary information this narration gives us is that “exterminations exist." Everything else about the deeper lore can be shown to us later, after we’ve had some time to get to know the world.
(Have this be a fairytale Charlie tells during an emotional, quiet moment; or in a flashback, Lilith tells this to a baby Charlie. Or it can be a musical number Lilith or Lucifer sings for her, trying to make themselves look better than they actually were.)
--“Angels are beings made of pure light who worshipped good and shielded all from evil.” WE’RE FIVE SECONDS INTO THIS AND ALREADY WE HAVE A HUGE THING TO UNPACK. Buckle up.
So Hazbin's lore goes like this: the Angels already exist, and they worship a vague figure of “Good” (who isn’t God), and defend people from “Evil” (who isn’t the devil, because Lucifer hasn’t rebelled yet.) Since Lucifer hasn’t rebelled yet, evil really shouldn’t exist yet. Where is this evil coming from?
(I have a bad feeling it’s Roo -- the Root of Evil, that character Viv drew years ago and said is a looming presence in the distance. Is Roo some kind of “eldritch abomination”, who existed before the angels? Sadly, I think that’s very likely, at this point.)
Either way: Good and Evil are forces that already existed at the start of creation, before Adam and Eve and everything else, and Lucifer and the Fallen Angels had nothing to do with it. Which just doesn’t mesh, if you’re going to have a Christian base for the lore.
Also: It says the angels defend people from Evil. But who are the angels defending? They explicitly show that humanity hasn’t been created at this point, because we see the birth of Adam in a few moments; so who the heck needed defending during this period of time!?
…
Alright, to get this out of the way: Hazbin Hotel won’t use God as a character, apparently because they don’t want to offend anyone, or so I heard. It’s something to debate; was this a good idea on their part, or is it cowardice? For me, I personally feel like it’s the latter. The show has already taken many other incredibly sacred figures and stories, and jumbled them up and tweaked them for the show’s awful lore -- and Viv has never cared about offending anyone before so why would she care now -- which is why it feels spineless to me, for them to NOT go all the way and just use the Capital G himself. Plenty of other stories have used the Christian God as a character just fine.
If they’re worried about doing it tactfully, the solution is to just… NOT write God as an asshole? Maybe try for some genuine sincerity in the writing for once? Make him the single character in the cast who is never played for a joke, and whose personality has no stupid quirks. Have him be very distant, maybe even locked in Heaven’s Palace, that way you don’t have to show him more than a handful of times, but the audience will know he exists; and use his limited screentime to make him display wisdom and warmth.
Maybe he acts like a distant observer of the Universe, and he clearly knows something we don’t; he tut-tuts at the bad things, but “This, You See, is how it Must Be. And by the end of the show he’s right because everything works out for the good. Or... something.
My point is, they already used all this other sacred stuff from the bible, they might as well go all the way. (Viv certainly didn’t have a problem using Lilith or vodou symbols, did she?)
--Lucifer was a dreamer who was deemed dangerous to the order of Heaven. Then he fell in love with Lilith for her fierce independence and they wanted to share free will with humanity.
This story. This rewriting of the usual biblical tale to make Lucifer sympathetic.
It just doesn’t work.
It also ties back to their refusal to use God as a character. The character of God was an INTEGRAL piece of this mythological story, and God and Lucifer were inseparably intertwined figures in it. Lucifer’s entire rebellion and “Pride” sin was against God. You could say... Lucifer has major fucking "Daddy Issues." (That's a phrase Alastor will say later!) To take away his Daddy Issues is just so lame.
Even worse, this story is trying to paint Lucifer as a misunderstood artist who cared about creation. (He's so different from the actual mythological figure, it makes you wonder what the point of even using these figures as characters is.)
…There are two possibilities.
Possibility One: I wonder if this is a “sanitized” version of the story that Lucifer tells Charlie to make himself look better. (This feels very much like one of those “history lessons” that a fantasy world will introduce to the characters early on, only for that history lesson to be shown as a lie later on.) But if that’s the case, it’s WEIRD for Hazbin Hotel to do that with the story of the Garden of Eden?? Everyone/most everyone in the audience will already know the gist of how the Eden story goes, so they'll know this retelling isn’t right -- so what, are we expected to wait for Charlie to gormlessly stumble into the truth, ~as a twist~ that GASP D:> her father INTENTIONALLY fucked humanity over!?!?!? HE DID IT ON PURPOSE AND ALL THE SUFFERING OF HELL WAS HIS GOAL!?!?!? DAD HOW COULD YOU. That’ll be a shitty twist. The audience already knows this, so it’ll just be pounding our heads into the wall waiting for Charlie to get there.
(And also, it’s very suspicious they don’t actually SAY what Lucifer’s “ideas and dreams” were for creation. So that could be a lie by omission that he uses for his fairytale. In reality, he might have had awful, shitty, malicious ideas, which Heaven stopped him from doing, and Lucifer’s been a big baby about it ever since.)
Possibility two: This is legitimately the retelling of the Eden story in the Hazbin Universe. Which just suuuuuuucks! If Lucifer was a kind, caring individual, why would he let his Hell Kingdom become a total SHITHOLE of suffering? Wouldn’t he be a kind ruler? Wouldn’t he try to run the ship better?
And it’s a horrible decision to woobify him in general. You’re seriously going to de-claw THE DEVIL? You’re gonna rip out his teeth and make him soggy!? You’re gonna make the King Of Evil, The Father of All Lies, LUCIFER, EMBODIMENT OF PRIDE, a wet meow-meow sadboy who did nothing wrong?? COME ON!! What makes Lucifer an interesting character IS THAT HE MADE THE CHOICE to fuck everything up on purpose! He’s interesting BECAUSE of how he, to this day, wants to ruin the Earth to stick it to God! You can’t just take that away from him!
It’s incredible that these two possibilities are on opposite ends of the spectrum, but both are unsalvageable. There is NO winning with this backstory. They fucked up.
--Ah wait there it is. The apple is the same color as the Vague Evil’s eye from above.
Yep….
Man, making Eve the twist villain of the story (before or after Roo shows up? Is Roo inside of Eve controlling her? It doesn’t matter). You couldn’t write a worst twist.
I ask you: Why is it Eve, and not Adam who is the secret twist villain? Or, why isn’t it Adam+Eve TOGETHER who are the twist villains?
If this were the only instance of female characters being demonized, I wouldn’t think anything of it -- but there is a clear pattern across all of Viv’s writing. Viv is a known misogynist, and this feels like an extension of her misogyny. Of course the twist villain is female. Of course Roo The Secret Eldritch Abomination is female. The male characters get sympathy, or stuff handed to them. Lucifer is a good lad who did nothing wrong! Alastor isn’t evil, he was hired to protect the Hotel and is a father figure to Charlie! ADAM got to go to Heaven and Eve didn’t!
I have absolutely no doubt that the blame will be put on Eve, and Adam will be given a pass because Eve tricked him to eat the fruit of knowledge, or something.
--Yep, this thing is animated like a Root. It’s totally Roo.
--Eyes… just like Roo’s root tongue. Yep.
--Heaven only allowed Lucifer to see the bad of humanity, never the good.
They really ARE trying to woobify him, aren’t they? At this point, the only way they could salvage any of this is by making this a sanitized bedtime story (which again wouldn’t work in itself.)
This is the fucking DEVIL we’re talking about.
He is the King of Hell, and therefore, he is the ruler of the Princes of Sin, the Ars Goetia, and the legions of Hell that are trying to corrupt the Earth! We see in Helluva Boss that demons do actually go to make Earth worse. If Lucifer is King and didn’t want this to happen, he has the power to stop at.
Plus: there are portals to go to Earth, and magic to watch the Earth as seen on Helluva Boss. So Lucifer has every means to look at the Earth any way he wants, and could see the good the Earth has to offer…… and it's because he’s the one bringing evil to the Earth in the first place in order to destroy good (technically to fight against God, but God ain't here, so "Good" it is.) That’s still Hell’s MO in this world. We’ve seen this on Helluva Boss, which is canon to this universe. And you cannot convince me that the King of Hell was “oblivious to it” or "the other royal demons have their own power and Lucy can't stop them" or some excuse like that, as if the Princes of Sin and the Ars Goetia are doing it secretly under Lucifer’s nose and Lucifer doesn’t know it’s going on. You cannot convince me of this.
Plus even then -- if Lucifer were still a sadboy who WANTS to see the good of the Earth (even if all he sees is the bad), that means… in theory, he has a “good heart”. So why isn’t he a kinder King?
Because this is either a fake fairytale or Viv is a bad writer who doesn’t think anything through. (It’s both.)
--Lucifer lost his spark, huh? What does that actually mean? Does it mean his title as King is only symbolic and he doesn’t do any ruling? (This can’t be right – we see later in the episode Lucifer still has some authority over various things, like meeting with Adam but foisting that responsibility on Charlie.) Does losing his spark just mean he gave up trying to be good, and now just revels in evil?
And, as the embodiment of Pride, shouldn’t Lucifer of all people be the most stubborn, unshakable person in existence? Instead of losing his SPARK, he should just grow jaded and bitter but still have that fire to prove he's better than everyone. He’s the King of Hell for a reason.
(And if Lilith thrives, why isn’t she the ruling Queen of Hell?)
--So Lilith uses her powers to Empower Demons…
This wording is VERY suspicious, and once again, feels like a sanitized bedtime story for Charlie.
What does empowering demons actually MEAN? Huh? It sounds very good in this fairytale, but look at the evidence presented to us. We see what Hell is like (...eventually.) It’s a shithole where everyone is suffering and constantly beating and killing each other. For all we know, her “empowering demons” actually means she encourages everyone’s worst behavior, gives sinners powers and weapons that they can use against each other, and is the reason why Hell is so awful.
…Oh god, if LILITH is the cause of Hell being bad, and Lucifer is a Good Boy who sits back and doesn’t do anything, then it’s another female character being written to fuck everything up!
(We don’t know when Eve takes Lilith’s spot, but I don’t think it’s quite at this point in history. So Eve doesn’t get the blame here just yet. Hopefully?)
--Overpopulation was always a bad motivation for Hazbin Hotel. I thought that even when I was a fan. Because: if Hell is a finite space where you can run out of room… then so is Heaven? If you start redeeming sinners for the sake of giving Hell more room… theeeeeen eventually HEAVEN is going to get overpopulated and run out of room. What then?
Hell also has other Rings the sinners are not allowed to go to. Are we going to mention the other Rings’ existence at any point? Will the idea of opening the other Rings up to sinners even be presented as an option at any point?
How much of Hazbin’s lore is going to be locked in Helluva Boss, unable to be shown in the series proper? Will the Princes of Sins, the Hellborn demons, the Ars Goetia ever make an appearance, or are they not allowed to? Will Charlie ever have to deal with the fact there is an entire slave caste in Hell, the Hellhounds? Is she going to free the Hellhounds? Imps are also oppressed, will the show ever explicitly TALK about that? Will the worldbuilding show us how imps, hellhounds, and Sinners intermingle in Pentagram City?
CAN HELLBORN DEMONS BE REDEEMED AND GO TO HEAVEN?
So many questions. And knowing Viv’s style, I highly doubt we’ll ever get any answers.
--So Charlie inherited her mother’s dream. But they completely neglected to mention what Lilith’s dream actually was. Do they mean she wants Charlie to “empowering sinners,” in general? Or did Lilith, specifically, want the exterminations to end?
They use such vague words, when this is one moment they should just give us a clear answer. This whole backstory was a mistake and a waste of time, but if you are going to use it to set up Charlie inheriting something from Lilith, you have to make it clear what she’s inheriting.
And also, while it’s not ENTIRELY a Chosen One scenario, in the pilot we got the sense that Charlie was the one who made the choice to try and help sinners, on her own. Now though, Charlie was GIVEN this dream by someone else, because she can’t have agency. It would be one thing if Lilith just taught Charlie to feel compassion (that would be fine, parents teach their kids morals all the time), but Charlie still came to the redemption conclusion on her own – it’s another for her to be said to have “inherited this from Lilith” or is carrying on Lilith’s legacy.
.................
With the opening monologue over, the only thing we know is that the lore is very messy. It has a Christian basis, but it's been fucked up so badly that it makes you wonder what the point even is.
Good and Evil are living eldritch forces that existed before creation and have nothing to do with God, Lucifer, or anything else like that.
There is no God, (who is the ENTIRE CENTRAL POINT for the biblical-inspired stuff in Hazbin); instead a whole Council of Elder Angels rules the universe.
Roo has no basis in anything.
I think in some tellings, Lucifer was the first Angel? Even if not, he was one of the highest. So Lucifer should be one of the ruling angels. They have to severely weaken him as a figure in order to make him under the control of the other angels. (After all, in Christian mythology, it's God who made Lucifer fall. Another way his absence fucks the story.)
And my final takeaway from combing over this lore is: why didn't Viv just make her own fantasy world? Everything in this show is only passingly similar to the stuff it's based on. If you're gonna take these aspects from religions and fuck with them so much, just make your own fantasy world where you can do whatever you want.
That was only the opening monologue. This is gonna be a long ride guys!
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These translations may not always capture the exact nuances or tone of the original text. Please support Cybird by buying their stories. Expect grammatical errors.
Crawling slowly on the ground, the man reached out his hand towards the roses, his eyes filled with determination.
(What should I do? Is there any food around?)
(Ah...)
I searched the pockets of my skirt and somehow found a wrapped cookie.
(Is it because it's a dream?)
Emma: "If you want, you can have this cookie."
Unhesitatingly offering it to him, the man's eyes changed color, and he stood up, accepting the cookie as if he were receiving a gift.
???: "Thank you for your generosity."
(His attitude changed!)
???: "I haven't had a chance to eat recently, so even if it's a dream, this still makes me happy."
Emma: "That must have been tough."
While maintaining an otherworldly atmosphere, the man took a big bite of the cookie. However, in the next moment, his perfectly sculpted face contorted.
???: "Too sweet!"
Emma: "Huh? Really?"
Curious, I also tried eating one cookie, but its taste was normal.
I tilted my head in confusion, and the man frowned, placing his hand on his chin.
???: "I see. For you, this level of sweetness is pretty normal."
Emma: "Yes. I often eat sweets."
???: "No, that's not it. I mean, an overwhelming sweetness has blended into your daily life."
???: "You're in love, aren't you?"
Emma: "You can tell?"
???: "Yes. The sweetness of the dream world proves that you love and care for someone."
???: "May God bless this pitiful girl."
Emma: "Pitiful?"
???: "It's even more pitiful that you're unaware of it."
Emma: "Who are you anyway?"
???: "You don't know me? Well then, you must be a girl from another country."
???: "Are you from Rhodolite? The land of roses? It's the number one country I'd like to visit someday."
Emma: "T-Thank you very much."
(I wonder which country this guy is from. He looks like a noble, but how come he was hungry?)
(But wait, this is a dream. Does this guy even exist?)
???: "But if you're not a citizen of my country..."
???: "Ah geez, I didn't need to pretend. I did something unnecessary."
(His attitude changed again!)
Azel: "I'm Azel. Even though you'll probably only remember me in this dream, not having a name can be inconvenient."
Emma: "I'm Emma."
Azel: "Well then, Emma. Even though it's a dream, I'll give you some advice as thanks for saving my life."
Azel: "I think you should throw that thing away."
Azel pointed to the jeweled rose protected by a glass dome.
Azel: "Generally, a rose is a symbol of love."
Azel: "To turn it into an everlasting rose means you must have known a deeply profound love."
Azel: "But love is a curse that can drive people mad. The stronger it is, the more it becomes a poison that consumes you."
Emma: "A curse? That's not true."
Azel: "How can you be so sure?"
Emma: “Because I’m happy every day.”
Azel: “Heh, I see.”
(He said it so flatly.)
Azel: “Even though you’re happy now, it doesn’t guarantee it will continue forever.”
Azel: “Just a slight misstep can turn love into a curse and transform you into a beast.”
Azel: “As a fortune-teller, I’ve witnessed many kinds of love.”
Azel: “Love is something beautiful and something to be admired. Many people believe that, but...”
He reached out to a nearby rose and grasped the thorns.
It pierced his skin, and blood oozed out despite being in the dream world.
Azel: “This is what happens when you grasp it recklessly. You get wounded.”
Azel: “Jealousy, possessiveness, fear, madness一love is not made up of only beautiful emotions.”
Emma: “.........”
Azel: “By the way, I hate blood.”
Emma: “Handkerchief! I have one with me.”
I pulled out a handkerchief I usually carried in my pocket and handed it to him.
Azel: “Thank you.”
Emma: “You’re welcome.”
Emma: “I still don’t think love is a curse.”
(I know it’s not always about beautiful emotions, but...)
Emma: “I believe it’s something precious, something we should cherish and hold dear for the rest of our lives.”
It’s the true Love I have finally found.
In the past, the previous Belle and the King had fallen to the depths due to their love, but "we" will never let love turn us into beasts.
Azel: "I see. I have no intention of engaging in pointless arguments with you."
Azel shrugged his shoulders while wiping his hands with the handkerchief.
Azel: "If you insist that much, then stick to your beliefs and see it through."
Azel: "The curse is already on you, so it's too late anyway."
As the news of the previous King's passing was widely reported, a new King was chosen in Rhodolite.
With the new King leading the way, the grand palace, meticulously built with the essence of art, was filled with an oppressively tense atmosphere.
Gilbert: "Good afternoon, people of Rhodolite. Thank you for the warm welcome."
Leon: ".........."
Chevalier: ".........."
Gilbert: "Ahaha! Don't be so wary. I didn't come here today to cause trouble, you know?"
Suddenly, without warning, the royal family of Obsidian, the land of ore and military that posed the greatest threat to the continent and had ruled over many countries, visited the royal court.
For a nation that had long rejected diplomacy, their casual arrival on Rhodolite was unusual.
Gilbert: "Anyway, your clothes have changed since the last time I saw you. A change of mood, perhaps?"
Leon: "As you know, our country is going through a period of change."
Leon: "We've made a fresh start, so we had everyone fitted with diplomatic attire."
Gilbert: "Ahaha, I see. By the way, I also got new clothes for diplomatic purposes. How do I look?"
Chevalier: "Stop this nonsense already."
Gilbert: "I was trying to ease the tension."
Chevalier: "If you visited our country for anything other than an evil purpose, I can guess what it is."
Chevalier: "Eyepatch, you’ve also heard about that story, huh?"
Gilbert: "Bingo."
Leon: "Even the skilled Obsidian, known for their espionage abilities, was taken by surprise?"
Gilbert: "Yeah, it's terrible, right? My friend was involved with the alliance, but they wouldn't tell me anything."
Gilbert, smiling cheerfully, approached the wall and looked at the map of the continent.
Gilbert: “As you all know, recently, the three nations of Tanzanite, Achroite, and Kogyoku formed an alliance.”
Gilbert: "Those countries are major powers on the continent, alongside advanced nations like Obsidian, Benitoite, and Jade."
Gilbert: "Oh, by the way, I'm not saying that your country is inferior, okay?"
Gilbert: "It's just that Rhodolite is smaller in scale."
Gilbert: "While your civilization may be on par with the advanced nations, it doesn't have the same reputation throughout the continent."
Leon: "Thanks for your flimsy concern. So, what are your thoughts on this alliance?"
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I think saying that Valentino is being woobified is not…the correct word. Vox, and the way a lot of the fandom downplays his villainy into something more palatable for them by making him a victim and then overemphasizing that victimhood while downplaying his antagonism, is being woobified. On the other hand what’s happening to Valentino is not that.
Both the show (and large parts of the fandom as a result) aren’t downplaying Valentino’s villainy and status as a rapist to make people feel sorry for him so that they’re more comfortable with liking his character. The way Valentino is presented as by the narrative is as this complete fucking moron with anger issues who has zero tact or impulse control; the audience is supposed to point and laugh at Val any time he is not directly (and I do mean ‘directly’) interacting with Angel Dust, which in turn lessens his negative impact without technically just straight up erasing it or pretending it doesn’t exist, and makes him more comfortable to handle and for people to like (or even to dismiss and to hate in some cases).
That phenomenon is not him being turned into a woobie though, that’s him being infantilized; it’s infantilization. No amount of adding layers and nuance to a character (especially if those layers are properly tackled) is going to lessen the impact of a villains’ negative influence on a narrative like making the audience laugh at them more often than they grow apprehensive of them will, and that’s exactly what the show did.
IE: Depict the idea that Valentino is a joke and (outside of his interactions with Angel) he’s practically harmless.
How I see it the show is simultaneously asking the audience ‘how bad could he really be, he’s such an idiot?’ and then showing us exactly how bad Valentino could be and expecting us to just go back to laughing at him right afterwards now that the threat is not immediately in our faces anymore. EDIT: There’s also an implication - that parts of the fandom run with and the writers could maybe be actively showcasing - that Valentino is an undercover mastermind who’s actually smart, but the show itself doesn’t give enough hints at his “childishness” being an act he puts on for me to regard it as more than fans expanding upon the specs of Valentino’s character that they’ve been given to marry the two facets of his identity together and as more headcanon than canon.
With balance this doesn’t have to be an inherently bad thing, but I don’t feel that the show has that balance. Trying to soften the blow a depiction of a fictional rapist will likely have on an audience is not a horrible idea, but something about the way HH goes about it just doesn’t work for me and I cannot for the life of me directly articulate why. I feel the show just often misses the mark when it comes to deciding what about Val and the shit he does should be emphasized for comedic affect, what should be shown to the audience with relative neutrality, and when they should seriously emphasize him being a villain and a abuser/rapist.
From how I see it, Valentino needed more neutral scenes than he did comedic; for further understanding of my thought process his tantrum in “Radio Killed The Video Star” (s1ep2) is comedic (except for when he riles Vox up before the show goes right back to playing up Val’s anger for laughs), his inclusion and actions during the Vees’ meeting scene in s1ep2 is neutral (there’s subtle comedic elements to what he’s saying/doing but the audience isn’t meant to actively be laughing out loud or anything), and the scenes where he’s directly attacking angel (his meaner texts/voice messages to Angel, the dressing room scene in “Masquerade”, his appearances in “Poison”[♪], & when Val threatens then slaps Angel in “Welcom To Heaven”) are meant to showcase his menace without buffers. Less overtly comedic scenes would’ve just balanced him better I think, so there’s not this weird dichotomy of moments where Vox treats Valentino not like a non-threat but like a child having to be weighed against moments where Angel Dust is regarding Valentino like the Overlord is his personal boogieman who’s actually a threat to be taken seriously.
In general though, while some people do play up Valentino’s stupidity and incompetence in a bid to actively neutralize, undermine, or ignore his more violent tendencies for their own purposes (EDIT: sometimes for comedic value, sometimes to make him more palatable or more fun to play around with), the infantilization and further “dumbing down” of his character in fandom seems to mostly stem from an almost incessant need to make him as undesirable as possible even for a villain. It’s a phenomenon that I don’t really have a full explanation for, but for me it reads as a way to “diss” Valentino and the theoretical rapist that exists in many people’s heads that he represents. This isn’t a disavowing of that or anything either, it’s just something I’ve noticed that I don’t really have a name for but still find interesting.
I do think Valentino’s “dumbing down” in fandom has its drawbacks — making a character with such a medium level of influence like Valentino so stupid and impulsive he doesn’t even hide his crimes retroactively makes all the other characters around him seem uncharacteristically weaker for falling for him when he’s not even trying to hide how bad he is or how abusive he’d be, incompetent for not defeating him when he gets in their way even though some of these characters are both more powerful than him & not being manipulated by him, and uncaring since the characters he’s victimizing have someone who claims to care about them (or who’d at least have a vetted interest in the victim’s safety) that knows how bad Valentino is but just chooses not to do anything regardless as a result — but I’m pretty sure I understand where the desire comes from in general even if I personally don’t love it, so whatever.
Brought to you by me misconstruing the term “uwuify” with “woobify” so…..yeah. This post technically spawned from nothing but I did not want to put it to waste so here y’all go. This is kind of ordered wonky too, but fuck it.
#valentino#hazbin hotel#Valentino’s wasted potential as a villain™️#hazbin hotel valentino#hazbin valentino#hazbin hotel opinion#hazbin hotel thoughts#i speak bitches *mwah*#me•
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The account posting leaks (the Nettles one specifically) seems biased towards House of the Dragon being the “everything is about Rhaenicent/poor Alicent just wants everything to be okay🥺🥺🥺” show, and it’s making me uneasy because they’re clearly ecstatic about the direction they’ve been told it’s going. The leaks themselves may or may not be true; after enduring Game of Thrones leaks for years, it’s hard to work out which are credible and which are some random fan’s shipping goggles-induced fantasy being passed off as legit - but after the terrible storyline for season 8 of Thrones turning out to be very real, I’m extremely nervous.
I should be happy about all of this. I have steadfastly shipped Rhaenicent since 2022, I have loved and defended Alicent tirelessly and enjoyed the more sympathetic portrayal, but now I’m starting to get pissed off.
“Alicent has sacrificed everything and needs to leave her kids behind” seems to be the popular Rhaenicent shipper mindset. I’m sorry, but if she needs to leave her kids behind because they’re too dedicated to the war machine and all-out destruction, then she needs to leave Rhaenyra behind as well. At the end of S1, Rhaenyra’s mindset shifted to that of a furious bereaved mother who wanted revenge. Did the writers just forget? Will Rhaenyra spend the entire season crying, bemoaning her evil husband and pretending she wasn’t imagining herself strangling Alicent and her kids with her bare hands in 1.10? Okay then.
It’s also a fact that Alicent actively contributed to the way her children turned out and I don’t appreciate the erasure of abusive parenting on her part. Otto is a terrible father who gave her the fear but that doesn’t mean the way she went about it was right. She raised her children on paranoia and instilled the us vs them mentality into them and even if she was trying to protect them, her tactics damaged them, and being physically aggressive with Aegon to get her point across seems to have been a frequent occurrence. Being forced to marry a much older man and have his children is an incredibly shitty hand to be dealt, but these kids did not ask to exist - it’s like their very birth is being held against them, not just their bad behaviour as adults. Not to mention her innocent grandchildren (born from a marriage forced on her son and daughter), one of whom is brutally murdered this season, by the way. But uwu childhood friends to enemies to lovers time?
It’s entirely possible the show can manage the nuance of this situation just fine and get it across well that Alicent’s feelings about wanting to be free of duty and retreat back to simpler times with Rhaenyra are perfectly valid without writing off Alicent’s children as cartoon villains who just keep upsetting their poor long-suffering mommy, but honestly? I don’t think the writers can do it.
And why the fuck does it have to be Alicent giving everything up for Rhaenyra anyway? If Rhaenyra’s storyline going forward is how she needs the throne so bad because destiny or whatever, then that makes the pining one-sided, which I suppose sits well with a good number of Rhaenicent shippers who are basically Team Black stans under a guise. It’s like Game of Thrones again when, depending on which of the three main female characters (Daenerys, Sansa and Arya) the person stanned, every other character around them had to bend to their will in order to give them the most ass-kissing storyline imaginable. Hard pass.
There’s also the weird clashing themes going on. The show has all the subtlety of a mallet upside the head when it tells us Rhaenyra’s claim to the throne is just and right, but it’s also trying to tackle the senselessness of the war being fought for it, which just doesn’t gel with trying to argue that one monarch has more of a right to rule over another.
Get your shit together, writers.
And fandom needs to learn that not every ship has to be canon in the most obvious sense of the word. I liked Rhaenicent just fine when it was a “what could have been” type of situation - I don’t want it if it means the integrity of the rest of the story is going to be compromised.
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i think that greg was always meant to remain a somewhat callous and opportunistic, but ultimately insipid figure within the narrative - just because it contrasts so beautifully and effectively with the nuanced hell-funnel of psychological damage that is present in the siblings.
& the dynamic between tom and greg was always interesting and fun to watch for sure. in s3 we got to see new facets to tom as a character and thus his relationships became a more prominent factor. so of course greg became more intriguing as a character within that context. a lot of this probably also has to do with the actors’ performances and chemistry (no fucking roses for n*c braun though) - i reckon it made people project a lot of depth onto greg that i don’t believe was necessarily there at all.
this last season - with its shortened time frame, new narrative structure and deserved focus on the sibling - doesn’t really provide enough opportunity for greg to be sketched out more clearly. choices had to be made by the writers in regards to character exploration and i think that, ultimately, greg was an easy “sacrifice” to make.
i could, of course, be completely wrong in this. hell, the last four episodes might zone in on him for some strange reason, but just going off of my general opinions on the character, this is what i think might’ve happened. would love to know your thoughts on this:)
honestly.... here's the problem with greg. the gregtastrophe. if you wrote down all of greg's biographical details on a piece of paper, you would have the skeleton of what could have been fleshed out into an interesting character. like, it's there. but pretty early in the show, the writers decided they were not interested in doing that. and honestly, it's not like this show lacks for psychological depth in its main cast, so really, who cares? the issue is that greg for some fucking reason (comic relief) has always had way more screentime than his half-baked writing needs or deserves. like, shit or get off the pot, you know?
anyway, i agree with your gregnosis: we are not gonna get anything more interesting from him in the last four episodes. obviously his relationship with tom depends on tom's overall happiness, place in the company, and relationship with shiv, so i won't pretend to be able to predict where that's going. but like, greg exists for tom to objectify and chuck water bottles at. he is simply not written with enough care to be interesting beyond that. truly i am sorry to all those whose high gregspectations were dashed upon the rocks of four seasons of sitcom-calibre writing :'(
#i did feel sympathy for him when he had psychosomatic sand mites and no one cared that he was uncomfortable in his body#that was my greg highlight honestly
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