#not as a queer person but as someone who's experienced homophobia because of how he's expressed himself and his appearance and music
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#frank iero#mcr#mcredit#lotms#leathermouth#frankieroedit#userkam#in honor of me deciding to get PANSY! tattooed on my arm sometime this year lmao#i have a lot of thoughts and feelings about how frank fits into the queer community#not as a queer person but as someone who's experienced homophobia because of how he's expressed himself and his appearance and music#and how he's responded to that#cause if you're cis and heterosexual but still don't fit into the cis het gender norms#society shuns and attacks you#especially back then
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this is a take as old as time coming from me i know i know, but. i really do still dislike how offended people get whenever someone calls will soft, weepy, or vulnerable. he is all of those things and there's nothing wrong with that.
he's described as being gentle, soft-spoken, and not like most. he isn't "masculine enough," and so he gets called slurs like f-g, fairy, and queer—homophobia born out of misogyny, because a perceived lack of acceptable masculinity = femininity = gay = bad. he doesn't have a domineering personality. his instinct is to get behind others when there's danger. he doesn't like gross things. he tucks tail and doesn't see his self-defense through all the way, preferring to take it and forgive, even if undeserved. he cries often and openly, both for himself and others. he's a survivor, yes, but he often needs the help and support of others and would not be here, or have that drive to begin with, without them. he's sensitive, artistic, a dreamer, and a romantic.
none of those things cancel out his survivor instinct or his strength. the fact that he's still there, still fighting, and still being true to himself is a shining testament to those traits. not everyone would've been able to come out of what he's experienced thus far with themselves in tact. will is strong because he's soft and he's soft because he's strong. if he weren't a strong person, he would've broken and bent into a jaded, defeated husk of himself, and he hasn't. he's still the same old will at heart, where it matters most.
this knee-jerk "NO HE ISN'T!1!1!" reaction doesn't address the root of the problem, it just reinforces it in a different, less-outright way. will is the softie, the damsel in distress & the harbinger, the lover, the sweet one. there's nothing wrong with that. he faces vitriol in-world for it, and to deny what he is in favor of making him seem "manlier," "harsher," or more "aggressive" just makes it seem like you, on some level, agree that will's softness is a bad thing.
chastising people for calling him soft shouldn't be your tactic. instead, consider asking them why that's such a bad thing to be in their eyes. neither the narrative, nor any of the people in charge of this show, punish will for who he is and urge him to change. it's only the antagonists and their real life counterparts that do.
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James Somerton Sucks For Many Reasons. But Also His Opinion On Heartstopper...
Ok so I was watching Todd in the Shadows' video on fact-checking James Somerton's vids (of course after having watched Hbomberguy's video). And a clip played of James lying (again) about straight white women complaining about a gay show. Except he mentions at the end of the sentence that these supposed people were "exposed to gay content for the first time in their lives via Heartstopper".
19:18 - https://youtu.be/A6_LW1PkmnY?t=1158
Now idk if that was supposed to be a joke or if that reflects any of his actual opinions on it (it's not like he's known for telling the truth anyway now tho)
But I'd just like to say anyway [this ties back into James I swear just bear with me]
I'm 18 years old now and I'm still dealing with issues cause by the homophobia I experienced in high school. And one of the few things that got me through it was when I got the first volume of Hearstopper when I was 16. And that actually was MY first real exposer to properly gay content. ME. Another gay boy. Not a straight woman.
And not only that, but it was the first time that I took in a piece of media and could honestly say "I see myself in this"
It was the first time I felt really seen and felt like I had my issues understood. And even as I've gotten slightly older through the two years, they've still been able to help me.
My friends will know that I've been struggling a lot with certain mental health issues that affect my physical health too. And I only realised how bad my problem really is and how much its been affecting me when I read volumes 3 and 4 and saw Charlie dealing with almost the exact same problem. I had been in such denial about it and worrying that it wasn't even real that I hadn't even considered it. But reading about him suffering from and eventually admitting to his problem and trying to get help made me think about what I had been experiencing. And gave me some perspective as to what exactly was happening in head and to my body.
The reason I'm saying all this is because I'm trying to show that these books about gay teenagers are REALLY good at portraying the experiences of gay teenagers. (At least based on my own personal life, Ik it could be very different for others and that's still valid) and they made me understand that what I had been through and am still dealing with because of that; are not isolated incidents and that I am not alone.
And James... someone who tried to give off the impression that he knows a lot about queer culture. Used it as an example of mindless romance fluff...
Which I think shows:
His lack of understanding of what it is actually like growing up as a gay boy in our current time. (Again, not trying to speak for everyone but it's very accurate to my own life)
And
2. His unwillingness/disinterest to look into what the books actually contain and how readers may respond to it.
[Also I just realised after typing all this that he could have meant the Netflix show, which imo wasn't as good but I think my point still stands?]
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How are you watching Heartstopper and taking in the entire plot whilst bullying the actor who has an undefined sexuality off of their own social media in the same way the story literally shows the bullies behaving. You’re quick to attack someone who’s not even defined. If this wasn’t a celebrity, and was alone, then deleting social media over this bullying could further isolate them, which if someone is queer, we get pushed into isolation enough as it is. It could be dangerous, it could result in much worse things.
God forbid someone might be bisexual as well, because all bisexuals are totally queer baiting fake gays and fake straights (sarcasm).
Someone said on Twitter: “If I was Kit Connor I wouldn't come out either. He's not exactly been welcomed with open arms."
And I absolutely agree, you’re creating an unsafe environment. Did you even watch the series properly? Look at yourselves.
The start and predominant part of the story is literally about a guy being forced out before he was ready and then experiencing bullying, fear and being alone pretty much for the rest of the school year until he met Nick.
It’s swinging to “you have to come out or else we will destroy your life” vibes yet even if he did, he would still very much have to experience homophobia straight away/bullying if he is, because it is still risky to come out in our society, and people can take as long as they want to feel like doing that. He’s comfortable in his sexuality, and that’s all that matters and it’s no one’s business but his but jumping to “faking it” to someone who doesn’t wanna define it, is 100% disgusting. You don’t know anything about what he likes so don’t dish your judgment, bully.
Come out and be attacked by homophobes or don’t come out and be attacked by us (tbh that behaviour in some cases is homophobic bc of the instant denial and bullying surrounding their potential queerness being real despite not even knowing them or anything).
9/10 queer baiting massacres I’ve personally seen have be towards queer people, or those who later come out as queer. Ya think?? Yeah lemme just make out with the same gender for the lols despite knowing it could end my career in this pretty homophobic industry.
Jessie J came out much later because she was told her career would be over if she came out as gay, and was barely “allowed” to come out as bi, many more older celebrities are finally able to come out now as well and have recently too, which shows how much the industry repressed them and how unsafe it still is and has been, to come out as a celebrity.
#kit connor#heartstopper#nick nelson#heartstopper series#heartstopper season 1#queerbaiting#queer celebrities#gay celebs
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Hello fellow bylers, I saw some tags on a Stranger Things post by @biigiiiii making conjecture about being gay in the 80s and I thought, well my dad was a gay teen in the 80s, let me ask him! And it was originally intended to just be sent via messages but then I figured it would be easier to structure as a text post and idk maybe someone else would be interested in hearing his thoughts. All of this is his own personal experience, obviously that is not universal. Hopefully someone finds this interesting or enlightening in some way though.
Gays at Large
What was the general feeling toward LGBTQ people in the 80s?
Homophobia was bad enough that people did not give a second thought to it or how damaging what they were saying was. Between the AIDS epidemic and Raegan administration, homophobia was extremely commonplace and pretty ingrained in Western culture. It was generally more prominent in rural areas than cities — that much has not changed.
The Q Word
How does he feel about the word queer and has his feelings changed at all over the years?
Well, despite rampant homophobia, there had also been a lot of pushing for LGBT advocacy in recent years. The Stonewall Rebellion happened in 1969, which had a significant effect on American society. A year later, in 1970, were the first gay pride marches. For my dad, queer was a word that had already been reclaimed by many, and so therefore meant little to him. In his words, "I'm a queer? A [f slur]? Tell me something I don't know. What, are you going to call me a [hispanic slur] next? 🙄"
Knowing vs Awareness
Was he aware he was gay as a teen? No but yes. As with many who are considered different by society's strandards, there is always an undercurrent of Knowing that you are different. You understand, on some deep level, that you are not fitting the mold that you should be. But that doesn't mean you actively aware and thinking about it. In fact, a lot of people do their best to not think about it and pretend to be "normal."
In my dad's case, he knew he was different, but he didn't "have time" to think about it that much. There was other things going on in his life that made it easier to put thoughts of his sexuality on the back burner. And yet, despite this suppression, he still was keenly aware of other people's attitudes toward LGBTQ folk, which became a sort of sixth sense.
Hypervigilance is Exhausting
As a survival instinct, my dad was always on the look out for who was "safe" and who wasn't. My dad was not a particular flamboyant person and he was into more "masculine" interests (his career is in HVAC, plumbing, and electric, and his hobbies involve listening to the news and playing the guitar); this made it easier for him to fit in, but he still could not ever truly let his guard down. This became so ingrained that he sometimes wonders if his personality would have ended up different had he been allowed to be himself without fear. Fear is a powerful tool in shaping a young mind, after all. And it's also so very wearying. Eventually, he got to a poijt in his life where he decided to hell with what everyone else thinks and feels and he would be himself shamelessly because there's not enough years in a life to be constantly forcing yourself into a socially acceptable boxm
The Curse of Internalized Homophobia
But...what about internalized homophobia? Yeah, unfortunately, he very much experienced it. And, even more unfortunately, it found its way into his speech, throwing around some homophobic slurs of his own before he came out of the closet. According to him, he has known many a gay man who shared in homophobic language during their closeted/repressed years. I don't think I need to tell anyone how terrible it is the way society can coerce you into being part of your own groups oppression.
Birds of a Feather
Did he know any other gay people though? Again, no but yes. You might have noticed or heard about the concept of gay people flocking together before any of them even know/accept that they're gay. His case is another one for the books. There were definitely a few people he knew were closeted, though he never approached them with the topic, but it wasn't for many years later that he would find out how many people around him were LGBTQ in one way or another.
Funnily enough, he married my mom out of high school, and as it turns out, she's bi and trans. (Trans man, she/her, very complicated history with gender. Also they are divorced but still best friends.)
Stolen Youth and New Hope
So, what is the overall feeling of having been a closeted gay teen in the 80s? Well, like something precious was kept from you. Those experiences that cishet folk got to have, you didn't. So many of the formative experiences many have in their adolescence were not viable for LGBTQ folks—from openly having a partner to just being and presenting how you wanted to. And, like I mentioned before, he was left with a persistent wondering about who he would have been had the world been a better place. (This isn't even something unique to his time either, many LGBTQ folks of all ages feel like this!)
That said, he is still so glad to see the positive changes in the world. He watches things like Heartstopper and is happy that, at the least, he got to live long enough to see that sort of representation on TV. And I think that's lovely. (As a personal aside: fuck you @ everyone who bitched about Heartstopper being "too sanitized", gay people deserve all types of representation on TV. If you don't like a certain kind, move on to something else and let those that do like it enjoy themselves.)
So, yeah, there's all the stuff I talked to my dad about. If you have any further questions for/about him (or my mom perhaps), feel free to shoot me a message!
#stranger things#byler#obvs the target audiences here#his not having time to think too hard abt his sexuality would be so in line with mike i think#bigger fish to fry than an identity crisis lets just shove that to the back of our mind#lgbtq#gay#el dot txt
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does anyone relate to me as a queer muslim?
Just wanted to put a disclaimer that I personally am not acting on it but I did find a way to reconcile my queer identity and religion <3
I grew up mostly thinking I was straight but in my teens I didn't label with heterosexuality anymore. I was never really passionate about queer activism but I recall being uncomfortable with homophobia at masjid and gatherings but I never thought about it too much until may 2022
That is May 27 2022 to be specific, the stranger things release date. Im not going off topic lol I promise. So basically I converted from being a mileven shipper to a byler shipper after watching. This was when my queer religious crisis started. I loved Mike and Wills relationship and I thought it was so beautiful from the way they treat each other. I was reading fanfics, watching edits, reading analysis 24/7. How could it be wrong
I knew that the logic with ''Sinful'' actions is that even though you desire benefits coming from it, and you intend good things to come out of it, the reason why its a sin is because unseen harmful effects come out of it even though that's not what we intend. ''But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.'' I could deal with the fact that queer actions were forbidden cause that meant you don't hate the sinner or the ''Sin'' but only the fact that your action has ''harmful unseen/unknown affect'' that you just have to trust in God that its there and that he would only make harmful things forbidden. For example: Promiscuity is a sinful behavior in islam, and God considers it disgusting because it is harmful, but in Jannah all the harmful effects of your desires are removed, this explains why alcohol and hoor al ayn, music etc exist in Jannah. So can I act on my queer desires in Jannah? I made the horrible mistake of going to cishet people with this question and obviously they said NO. I was so fucking pissed and mad and I felt guilty for being mad because it felt like I was questioning Allah. But mostly I was hurt because God is not who I thought he was and I felt ignored, betrayed, neglected, and I took the queerphobia as my image of God. It just made me even more pissed off when people said '' you will get something better'' why can't I get what i asked for and be treated normally like everyone else with their forbidden desires? After suffering an entire lifetime of homophobia and abstinence, God wants to brush this issue under the rug and ignore it even though it becomes a part of who a person is, where is the justice?? At that point I felt like if I couldn't get queer liberation in the next life for myself I would want it for someone else and I would fight for it. I had mercy in my heart for queer people. So this does not make sense cuz GOD IS THE MOST MERCIFUL, more merciful that any lgbtq+ activist on this earth, so God surely must out mercy me
I went through a religious crisis period for 6 months just constantly soaking up all the queerphobic media online from muslims. I felt sick reading all of it and I felt my heart drop. Why do muslims deny that queerness is not a choice. Why do these scholars have rights to speak on issues they've never experienced. How can a person tell another person how they feel. How can you deny centuries of queer people and why do some muslims make fun of queer people, hate us, think were disgusting etc. I really never felt any righteousness or respect from these people yet they say ''respect not support'' tf? I started getting depressed, failing in school because I took these people and modeled my image of Allah based on them. Why wont I get what I want in this life or the next? So my love was considered ''disgusting'' for no reason.
Then months later, everything changed. I started talking to God everyday and treated him like my therapist and I vented out all the pain of queerphobia. I did scientific research on queerness and found out that is generally innate/unchangeable and internalized homophobia turned into anger towards queerphobic people. I was just crying out to Allah wishing that Queer Love could be honored and respected one day and that slowly, naturally it turned into me making dua to Allah that queer people could act on it in Jannah. I for some reason thought it would be more acceptable to ask for queer relations without the sexual aspect lmfao my puritarian era. So anyways I slowly started making Dua to Allah often and asked all the time for queer liberation in the next life and for people I knew in real life, online, my moots, queer muslims who passed away etc. I turned the anger of queerphobia into calling out to Allah to ask for liberation for the queer ummah. I eventually also asked for the sexual aspects as well lmfao. I remember one day I prayed tahajjud and asked Allah for queer people to be with their lovers in the next life and to be themselves (gender identity) and I asked for a sign. I even talked to Allah about my love for byler lmfao dont judge me ok I was crying my ass off at the van scene where Will confessed to Mike. So anyways the ''Sign'' as I saw one day I was cleaning my room and read a book that said that Allah would never guide a person to make a dua if he didn't want to answer it. I was shook and long story short I learned that God is what you make of him and you must trust God when you make dua to him. Another Sign I saw was that I was a video literally explaining this concept in a tik tok another time after I made tahajjud and asked for the same thing again.
My perception of God has fundamentally changed and I am so grateful. Byler endgame 2024 <3
im just gonna quickly note that this blog *does* support acting on your queer attraction and i, as the mod, have multiple partners. i choose to interpret the stories that supposedly ban queerness otherwise (some of these interpretations are or will be shared in #resources) and that any harm that comes from it can either be mitigated (safe sex practices) or is the result of bigotry
but thank you for sharing your experience anon. genuinely happy that you managed to reconcile both with yourself and Allah :]
and hey, i get what you mean abt the fanfiction part skdfjh ! some of my earliest experiences w queerness were reading queer fics on ao3 and feeling,,, something. something i couldnt quite identify till years later. fics exposed me to queer romance, helped me come to terms with my allosexuality, and even helped me experiment with my gender in a way. i owe a lot to fic writers
#queer muslim experiences#queer muslim#queer#muslim#tw homophobia#homophobia#tw internalized homophobia#internalized homophobia#not queer muslim culture
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Alright, so, exactly one person said that I should do a long post about my thoughts on this scene. And that's literally all I needed. So, here I go, I guess. I'll try to be coherent.
This scene (and honestly Colin in this episode in general) really hit something deep in me as a queer person. I think it touched on something that I haven't seen a lot of media touch on in that way, but that I and a lot of other queer people have experienced
So, let's get into the scene, specifically Colin's reactions to everything.
I couldn't find gifs for everything I'm talking about, so here's the scene.
At first they're just talking about how cool Zava is and how much they admire him. And everything is fine. Until Richard calls Zava sexy, and Isaac's response is "Sounds a bit gay, bruv". And yeah, he's not saying "I hate gay people". But look at him and how he acts. He says it with a laugh. In a "you're being weird" way. Now, my point here is not to say that Isaac is homophobic. He is however referring to being gay as kinda weird, funny and almost a bit absurd. Y'know, the kind of jokes straight people make when they think there are only other straight people in the room. This is what closeted people live through every day.
I'm actually gonna put some tags from one of my other posts here. Because, yeah, exactly.
#I watched a few cishet reactions to the episode and #the way they Did Not understand the locker room scene #like that wasn't a funny 'joking with the gay guy' moment #that was a moment of 'we are all straight and the joke IS a gay guy' #like Colin is living in that liminal space of #okay maybe they aren't outright homophobic but they sure aren't openly accepting #and any change to that status quo may potentially make things Very Dangerous #so he just Isn't going to challenge that at all (@king-kal)
#stop acting like its all okay #this is exactly what makes it terrifying to come out #and what gaslights people into believing thier pain isn't real #because yes theres more blatant and explicit homophobia out there #but this does real damage too #and its fucking hard to know where youll be safe when the people around you give no indication that theyd accept anyone queer (@not-a-cheese-thief)
#however much they love him there has been absolutely nothing about them in relation to queer people that indicate they’d be #supportive and accepting #you really just never know which is partly why coming out is so terrifying (@theoneandonlypigeon)
Now, let's have a look at Colin. As soon as Issac says that, he has Colin's full attention. He turns his head, his eyes are on Isaac. And he looks kinda scared. Anticipating. He's listening intently.
When you're closeted, and the topic of queerness is mentioned, especially if someone who matters is around, like a friend, you pay attention. You pay attention to what they say, to how they react. To figure out what they think about queer people. What they would think about you if they knew. Would they treat you differently? Would they start to dislike you even? Or would they maybe be supporting?
As a closeted queer person you can never be sure if you're safe. As some of the tags above have pointed out, nobody is saying anything overtly homophobic here, but nobody is saying anything to indicate they would be supportive either. So really Colin doesn't have any more information about how they would react to him coming out than he did before.
Then Richard says "Well I'm gay". And everyone turns around to him and is like "huh?". Except for Colin. Colin doesn't turn around. He actually turns more forward. He tilted his head in Richards direction when he started talking. But when he finished his sentence Colin looked straight ahead. And imma be honest here, I'm not really that good at analysing facial expressions, and this might well be me overanalysing. But the way I'm reading what's going on here is the following. Colin actively faces forward to not seem that interested in Richards possible gayness. his eyes also widen and then tart around for a second. Which to me reads as, like, "wait, what? could there actually be another queer person on the team?".
I'm not gonna get into Richard actually being possibly gay. Here's a post about that, if you're interested. (Not saying that's what I believe necessarily, but I saw the post and felt it necessary to include)
Then, of course "for Zava". And Colin laughs. But holy shit it's such a fake laugh. Like, I'm serious, watch that scene again and pay attention to Colin's laugh. It it so fake.
While they're talking about "men with charisma that transcends orientation", nothing all that interesting happens.
And then, Colin's joke.
Immediately after he finishes his sentence, he looks anticipating again, in a slightly different way. A short moment of "should I not have said that? Could it give them a hint about me?". Then the others start to laugh and Colin smiles along. He's accomplished his mission. He's blending in. He's a chameleon.
#he's part of the team#but his queerness also isolates him#separates him from them#this is my first ever long post so i'm sorry if it sucks or doesn't make sense#i hope it does tho (make sense that is)#and i hope you can't tell that i'm sleep deprived lol#long post#colin hughes#queer#gay#ted lasso#ted lasso spoilers#ted lasso s3#ted lasso season 3
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"Hellfire" is way too relatable to young, queer Christians (or former Christians)
I'll elaborate
Fair warning, I'll be discussing the relationship between queerness (specifically sexuality), religion, and faith, homophobia, internalized homophobia, and misdirected blame.
I'll start this off by saying I was raised in a fairly conservative church from the age of 2 onward. I learned that homosexuality was a horrible sin, but that queer people needed love and support without acceptance. Basically, hate the sin, love the sinner.
And then I figured out I liked girls and proceeded to have a months-long crisis of faith that I couldn't talk to anyone about. "Hellfire" from The Hunchback of Notre Dame was actually a super helpful song in that time because, at its core, it is a song about sexuality and religion coming into conflict. (There's also a solid dose of racism and misogyny in that song, but that's a different post)
Beata Maria
You know I am a righteous man
Of my virtue I am justly proud
As a protestant, I prayed to God instead of Mary, but here, he's talking about the pride he takes in his status within the church. He's ashamed of his feelings, so he's puffing himself up defensively. He may also be trying to show Mary, "Hey, look at all I've done for you! I've done everything you asked! Why are you cursing me with this horrid disease?"
What he doesn't understand is that it's not a disease. He's just experiencing normal, human attraction and panicking because he's been taught that those feelings absolutely cannot co-exist with his position/faith.
Beata Maria
You know I'm so much purer than
The common, vulgar, weak, licentious crowd
Again, beefing himself up here. Also revealing his pridefulness.
Then tell me, Maria
Why I see her dancing there
Why her smold'ring eyes still scorch my soul
I feel her, I see her
The sun caught in her raven hair
Is blazing in me out of all control
Women, dude. Women are gorgeous. Here, he's expressing his frustration at his own inability to control his "bad" feelings. He also seems to be asking Mary why God is punishing him with a temptation he's ill-equipped to handle. (God generally allows Christians to be tempted by such things so that we recognize how much we need Him, for anyone who's curious about the theology there).
Like fire
Hellfire
This fire in my skin
This burning
Desire
Is turning me to sin
Jesus says in Matthew 5 that thinking about sin (lust/adultery in this particular case) is just as bad as committing the sin itself in God's eyes. As I said above, God is probably trying to show Frollo that he's a sinful person just like everyone else, and shouldn't hold himself above everyone else. Unfortunately, Frollo didn't learn that lesson and, well, the rest of the movie happened.
In relation to queerness, since homosexuality is taught to be a sin, thinking about someone of the same sex as you in a romantic light is seen as just as bad as actually dating them. I use the romantic example instead of the attraction example because lust is a sin, but loving and wanting a relationship with someone is not! Young, queer people may have been taught that it is, however, which makes that last line particularly devastating.
It's not my fault
I'm not to blame
It is the g*psy girl
The witch who sent this flame
Now, he's trying to blame the person he's attracted to for his own feelings and absolve himself of blame. Unfortunately, for Christians who are discovering their attraction to fellow men or women, the guilt can be crushing! We're often taught about non-heterosexuality as one of the most taboo of sins! When you find out that you are "one of those heathen, godless gays" a lot of people will do everything in their power to get out from under the blame. Surely, it can't be their own fault! It must be the fault of the person they're attracted to, or that episode of glee they saw, or even God Himself for tempting them!
Obviously, this blame is misplaced. Queerness isn't caused. It just is. And like all of the other diversities God created, it has a place and a purpose.
It's not my fault
If in God's plan
He made the devil so much
Stronger than a man
Mood. Frollo has switched from blaming Esmeralda for his attraction to blaming God. (Also, if this were sung by a woman, that "made the devil so much stronger than a man" line takes on an entirely different meaning)
Protect me, Maria
Don't let the siren cast her spell
Don't let her fire sear my flesh and bone
Here, he's begging for protection and relief. He wants things to go back to the way they were. He wants to be free of the moral conflict instead of walking through it. It's a very relatable sentiment! Finding out that you're The Other your community has warned you about your whole life flips your world on its head!
In order to reconcile your sexuality and your faith, you cannot shy away from the conflict, no matter how painful it is! You have to do your own research. You have to think your own thoughts. You have to question everything you've been taught. But I promise, you will come out better for it.
Destroy Esmeralda
And let her taste the fires of Hell!
Or else let her be mine and mine alone
This goes deeper into the "free me from this moral conflict" point. There are really only a few ways that can be done. You can abandon your faith, repress your sexuality, or force the two to get along. Abandoning one's faith is the most common reaction in the queer community because faith, unlike sexuality, is a lifestyle you can choose. However, for a lot of people, their faith is too important to lose.
That only leaves two options. Repressing one's sexuality is usually very damaging to one's mental health. Bottling up all the guilt and shame however, is sometimes easier than doing the research and reevaluating one's worldview.
The "or else let her be mine and mine alone" is Frollo pleading with Mary to give him a way to express his sexuality in a religiously acceptable way. Luckily, that's pretty easy for queer Christians! The Bible gives a lot of tips and expectations for marriages. They are generally framed for hetero couples (because they're the most common), but they apply to homosexual couples as well. You just need to read between the lines.
Paul says in Corinthians 7 that some people should not be married at all (and I think he also implies that he's ace?). That means that ace/aro people and those in queerplatonic relationships are also still in line with the Bible! No conflict there.
Hellfire
Dark fire
Now gypsy, it's your turn
Choose me or
Your pyre
Be mine or you will burn
This is 100% Frollo making Esmeralda responsible for his feelings and not taking accountability for his actions. For the record, that is something you should definitely not do!
God have mercy on her
God have mercy on me
But she will be mine
Or she will burn!
Okay, the first two lines are nice. He's asking for clemency on Esmeralda's behalf for her (imagined) sin of seduction. Then, he asks for clemency for his own (not imagined) sin of lust (but alas, not his pride). The last two lines are a false dichotomy he's created by believing his lust is Esmeralda's fault.
In summary, this song was way too relatable to little 14-year-old me. If you are going through the same thing, don't abandon your faith and don't ignore your feelings. There's a middle ground, I promise. You just need to do your own research and think your own thoughts, as hard as that may be in practice.
Also, be careful who you ask questions to. Remember that your pastors at your conservative church, well-meaning as they may be, have a vested interest in keeping you ignorant of the queer community. Try to find both sides of the story and, if you can do so safely, talk to other queer Christians.
#hellfire#the hunchback of notre dame#claude frollo#lgbtq#gay#lesbian#bisexual#queer#asexual#aromantic#queerplatonic#religion#christianity#faith#homophobia#internalized homophobia#media analysis#lyric analysis#lgbt friendly#christian friendly#mental health
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Ok as someone equally obsessed with the goldfinch, something that has always bothered me is why Boris so casually dismissed their teenage sexual relationship at the bar years later, when he has been known to be overtly more accepting of queerness than Theo. Are we supposed to interpret that as him actually dealing with his own denial and internalized homophobia? Or do you think he just knew Theo would be uncomfortable discussing it because of his obvious internalized homophobia, so he brushed it off to avoid putting Theo in that position? Or both, something else, idk? Let me know your thoughts! That conversation haunts me.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FASCINATING (i'm so sorry that i'm answering this almost a month late)
so i just answered another ask talking about a similar topic (boris' internalized versus externalized homophobia, which you mentioned in your ask), but this is far more specific so i'm gonna focus on what boris is--hope that's okay fsdhjsjfdk.
i think that his flippancy about the sex was less so related to homophobia or theo's discomfort, and moreso about the fact that in all likeliness, boris doesn't care all that much about it. to be honest, i really doubt he thinks about it at all!
boris strikes me as the kind of man who would simply not care to devote any significant amount of time to unimportant matters in his life. he knows who he is, and what he does.
his mother his polish, and his father is ukrainian, and yet he considers himself indonesian. not because he's indonesian by blood or family, but because "Indonesia is the place [he] want[s] to get back to," and therefore that's how he identifies.
does that make complete perfect sense? not personally to me, no--i've lived in one country my whole life, and my lineage is rather clear, so i'm not able to understand how that would feel to him and dictate where he feels he's from. but boris has a complicated relationship with who he is and where he's from--meaning that the lines are messy and not 100% objective.
i think that you can apply a similar line of thought to his sexuality. perhaps he genuinely thinks that him and theo having sex was simply because they needed girls. i'd argue that doesn't negate him being queer.
maybe this doesn't make sense. i suppose i'm trying to say that boris is a very fluid guy, who organizes his identity in ways that are specific to how he grew up, in ways that are complicated and difficult to understand if you've never experienced anything similar. i think that his opinions on his own sexuality would follow similar guidelines.
boris wouldn't consider himself bisexual, or pansexual, or gay or omni or queer or any of the other words that we can apply to him from an onlooker's perspective trying to understand him in terms that make sense to us. boris sees himself in terms of situation and want--and if boris wants to fuck a dude, well. i don't think that he'd think himself any different than anyone else.
so yeah. i think he might fully believe that sleeping with theo was because they needed girls. but i don't think that he bothers to repress his sexuality. i think that his reasoning for sleeping with men and women isn't easily distinguishable as a defined sexuality, it's simply about what he wants and how he feels in the moment.
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I’ve been following your blog for a while now, and it’s really been helping restore my relationship with faith. So firstly I want to say thank you. <3 I also wanted to ask how you learned to deal with adversity so well? I’ve seen other blogs on here that frequently invalidate queer christians and openly say they are not valid. How can one believe in a god that would “make all people in his image” but then turn around and tell his people to hate what he had created?
Welcome, beloved! I'm so glad this can be a good space for you and you're very welcome. My ability to deal with adversity is actually currently being tested because I wrote out a complete response for you and Tumblr did not save my draft!!! And yet we press on. Hopefully this second try from scratch is still helpful/relevant. Please assume any lack of genius is because I used it all up the first time around. :)
I'm honored you think I deal with adversity well—I have a long way to go but I am proud of where I am. Partially I've learned because I had to learn. My greatest wish was to continue being in faith communities as myself, and that sadly inherently puts me in adverse situations. I'm lucky to generally have experienced passive/"well-meaning" homophobia in my daily life rather than active violence or abuse, but it is of course still a hardship. In many ways I am not given a choice—if I live as I am, this is what I will experience. I wish this were not the case, but it is—which means part of fulfilling my journey (existing as I am within my faith) means dealing with adversity, and because of my beliefs, I strive always to deal with it in loving ways.
I know I am connected to generations of Christians experiencing adversity, both from within and outside the church, and, like many of them, I have decided it is worth it to not give up my allegiance. To be clear, I have immense empathy and respect for those who leave the church for these reasons, and I would never shame them or consider them cowardly/weak—for those I know it has been an act of bravery, strength, and self-preservation. I want everyone to be free to make that choice—and I have (sometimes grudgingly) chosen to stay.
I similarly have empathy for those who attempt to repress or choose to hide/keep private their sexuality/gender—this is a very painful experience that I wish no one had to go through, but some are driven to it. There are generations of Christians (and queer people of all religions/cultures) who have experienced this, and it's often a choice between coming out or keeping your family/community/even life. Ultimately, some people do not wish to come out, not or ever. I do encourage people to be honest with themselves and God, and try their best to seek out affirming communities for their own health/well-being and ability to freely serve God, but again, this is a choice we are free to make—and I (joyfully and painfully, in an uncomfortable but safe environment) have chosen to be out.
I've had to learn how to curate my space on the Internet and generally avoid debates with strangers—my current rule when deciding whether to give someone time when they approach me with abuse is to ask, "Would answering this be useful (to me, to them, to those who might read it)?" and "Are they saying anything worth thinking about?" Often, the answer is no. Someone telling me to kill myself does not want to have a conversation, and there's nothing to respond to. But if someone shares a specific opinion, or cites a Bible verse, or criticizes a specific belief, then there's something there that could be useful to address. And then, of course, protecting myself is also relevant. It takes energy for me to write anything, but doubly so when I know the other person isn't approaching the conversation with the same love I attempt to. If I have the energy, and feel like there's something to actually say, sometimes I'll say something.
Whether I'm responding or deleting, I am called to keep moving with prayer and love. I can't let my beliefs go out the window when I get hurt or angry (although that happens to all of us sometimes). And always always I remember that it's never about me. Homophobia comes from ignorance/fear/disgust, and although I am sometimes the one directly addressed, I am not what these people have an issue with. Problems with me living as a Christian generally come from past trauma, ideological issues with certain theologies, or ignorance/disrespect of religion generally, not me existing. Again, I'm the one being addressed, but their (often justified) anger is not about me. I'm not trying to make excuses for people, but I am making the space for my own compassion and their ability to grow, as my religion has taught me. (Obviously this doesn't include instances in which I might be the one who has made a mistake/caused harm; I'm talking about unjust adversity people experience, not consequences of actions.)
I will point out that it is much harder to deal with people like this in person. Writing involves distance and time from the aggressor. I can take a deep breath, wait a few days, choose whether to respond, and reread my words before sending them, thinking about how they might be received. But on the street? In school hallways? There is no distance and no time, and there is sometimes a lack of physical safety as well. This is when I have most often given in to anger, or meeting disgust with disgust. Obviously this has often been self-protection and survival, and I do not fault myself or anyone for not meeting oppression with perfect calm—this is impossible and not a value everyone holds. (That's a whole 'nother discussion!) When possible, though, I do try to do what I do here—if I feel safe, if I have the energy, I'm open, I ask questions. People filled with anger/fear/disgust/ignorance often can't keep it up for long.
Why do people hate, especially when they claim to value love? I don't have definite answers, although I've provided some already. I do know that most of the homophobic people I know are not abusive/violent—they are well-meaning and put-together. They genuinely want what's best for people, and think that guiding people toward repression or conversion therapy or mandated celibacy will guide their life towards God. This is a deeply mistaken perspective, that causes real harm and is full of ignorance, but I do not experience it as hate (although there is a violence present). They think I am not whole as I am, and think that loving me involves fixing me. This is not loving, but it is something I can understand more than outright abuse. It's another kind of adversity, one that sometimes hurts more long-term, partially because I can understand it more—I can't dismiss it. And these people have a hard journey—admitting they're wrong means admitting their whole worldview is broken, but also often includes making this judgment about their family/community, and might mean losing it. Again, I do not seek excuses, but context and space.
In my life, I prove them wrong by living wholly, fully, and openly. I cannot make them see my happiness—we cannot force people to open their eyes. But we can show them light where we can. We cannot save them alone, but they can be saved, and they will be. ("Save" here meaning to fully experience love, not conversion or avoidance of a traditional Hell.) I know my patience and love (the little of it I can sometimes reach) can help people, because people have told me it has, and this an honor and a privilege and an overwhelming stress and a gift from a universe I cannot move. If the way I have chosen saves even one person, it is worth it—and if we include me, then it definitely has, but even if we don't, I have witnessed others' hearts change. Moving and writing and speaking with love will not fix everything, it is not magical, but Love will save all of us—They already have. Love (who is God) is with us, even when we cannot feel it, even when we don't have the energy to comprehend it, even when we are blinded and scared and cannot admit we are wrong.
My beliefs inherently make room for people to change, even when this truth makes me mad, even when I wish I could just give up on people. Christianity, at its best, equips us to take a deep breath and remember what we were made for. As Pentecost arrives, I hold the Spirit close—I've never spoken in tongues or been set on fire (and not to jinx it but I don't really desire to), but I've felt the wind on my face and bird-watched in my backyard and sat around a bonfire with people I love. I have so far to go, and the road rises to meet me.
In summary, TL;DR, don't mean to rant but always do: I learned to deal with adversity because I had to, and with practice, while honoring others, while figuring out a path of love in this weird and confusing life, even as I fail at what I set out to do all the time, God sees what I do in the name of survival, and gives me the strength to keep going. I know anger and fear and disgust and ignorance because they're in everyone; I know what it is to believe something and do things that go against that, because I do it all the time; I know what it is to hang on to things I've been taught even when they're harmful, because I've done that. We can only pray that they do not overtake us as they overtake those who hurt us.
Blessings to you as we move through an inhospitable world (and website). May we do all the good that we can.
Grant, O God, that your holy and life-giving spirit may move every human heart, that the barriers which divide us may crumble, suspicions disappear, and hatreds cease, and that, with our divisions healed, we might live in justice and peace; through your Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. —Lutheran Book of Worship (1978)
<3 Johanna
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Ted lasso ask: Was Isaac avoiding Colin because of internalized homophobia, or bc he was upset he never told him, or was it a bit of both? Did Isaac attack the fan bc he was offended by what he said or to 'defend colin's honor'?
Ted Lasso ask woo!
Personally, I think it's an "All of the above" situation. In one of my previous posts I remember catching a tag arguing that Isaac isn't experiencing internalized homophobia, presumably because he himself is not gay and yeah, that's an understandable push-back considering that a) he's not out in the show and b) I never bothered to explain there my own thoughts on the possibility. The tl;dr of that is, "I think you can make a case for Isaac being queer based on his relationship with Colin, his intense reaction to realizing a teammate is gay, the potentially defensive nature of the anti-gay/'I'm totally straight, bro' jokes he makes - which, remember, Colin himself participated in as a kind of cover, raising the possibility that others are doing the same - and the reminder from Beard that more people in the locker room are queer than the three the audience knows about: Colin, Trent, and Will."
But to keep things simple here, let's just settle on, "Isaac has been homophobic." Whether it's internalized as he grapples with his own sexuality or not, Isaac has exhibited homophobic behavior in the past and, of course, after Colin's outing. It's not "Your conservative uncle spewing slurs and issuing death threats" homophobic, but just because there's a range in how homophobia presents doesn't mean it's not, you know, still homophobia. So that's something Isaac needed to deal with last episode. He's spent years making comments based in homophobia ("It's a little gay, isn't it?") and making assumptions about others presumed straightness (why in the world would Colin want privacy to delete those photos?), so when he's suddenly faced with the fact that someone he cares about is gay... he needs time to process that. Trent hit the nail on the head with his "give him a minute" line because not only do people need time when their worldview suddenly shifts like that, but it's a rare and joyous case where they react to that change solely with open-minded positivity. In Isaac's case, he used avoidance and anger as shields until he could come to terms with that change, significantly with Roy's help.
When Isaac says that he's upset that Colin didn't tell him I don't think he's lying... but I also don't think that's the entire truth. If this was only about Colin's trust in him then Isaac would have led with that from the get-go: seconds after he's taken Colin's phone it's, 'You're gay? Awesome! But man, why didn't you tell me? :( ' That obviously didn't happen. Trust is undoubtedly a part of Isaac's complicated feelings, but I think that only occurred to him after he'd come to terms with Colin being gay in the first place. Isaac had to accept that change in his worldview as well as this change in his perception of Colin and then, once he was in a place of, 'Yeah, yeah, Colin is my friend and teammate, of COURSE I accept him' he's able to go, ]Wait... why didn't he tell me??' and that anger becomes the next shield. By and large, people struggle to admit to their mistakes and they really struggle to admit to something as hurtful as, 'My homophobia was so deeply ingrained that unfortunately there was a moment where I wasn't sure I could get past that.' Once Isaac DOES get past it and it becomes unthinkable to him that he would have ever rejected Colin over something like who he's attracted to... it becomes that much harder to remember/acknowledge that, for an undetermined length of time, Isaac did exactly that. Don't talk to me (ignoring direct peace offerings). Don't touch me (removing his hand from under Colin's in the team pile-up). You're an easy target for my frustrations now that I know how freakish you are (screaming at Colin during the match). Isaac's homophobia was deep enough that it made him incredibly cruel for a time, so when he grows out of that of course he's going to struggle to admit precisely how cruel he was. So he doesn't. Isaac apologizes, but it's still deflected with this not-entirely-accurate justification of, 'I was mad you never told me.' Which doesn't make Isaac a bad person, it just makes him a person, period, with flaws and contradictions and the chance to improve.
All of which I think applies to the attack on the fan. Why does Isaac lash out like that?
Because he's still overcoming all the homophobia he's learned and he sees an accusation of being gay as the ultimate insult to his team
Because he may be struggling with his sexuality himself, so an accusation directed at him is even worse. It's not just that it may touch a nerve, but that anger is the only way to protect himself here: become enraged so that everyone watching - teammates, coaches, fans, the press, the world - knows that you're DEFINITELY not gay. That's unthinkable. That's impossible. That's worthy of an attack because to brush it off would be to implicitly suggest that being gay is okay and that's just one step from admitting that maybe you ARE gay. The fact that Isaac's dialogue is centered around, "What did you call me?" is one of the reasons why I personally read him as closeted/potentially not having questioned his own sexuality yet.
Because it wasn't actually a 'You're gay' accusation but a slur hurled by someone who is (presumably) not a part of the community and therefore has no right to reclaim it.
Because even while he struggles to accept Colin, Isaac still loves Colin so yes, there's that element of defending his honor.
Because his anger is reaching a tipping point and this attack - perfectly tailored to push the very buttons he's trying and failing to ignore - is what causes it to boil over.
So Isaac is complicated (because he's a well-written character!) and thus for me it's "All of the above." Personally, I LOVE that the episode's final scene didn't have Isaac suddenly being a Perfect Ally now. Not only is he asking a ton of questions that, while understandable, would make a lot of queer people uncomfortable af, especially given that they highlight Isaac's continuing biases (Colin is a very good friend for giving him the nonjudgmental space to ask all that), but he's also unable to say "I love you." What exactly does that mean? Perhaps that Isaac's residual homophobia won't let him say that to a man, especially a man he now knows is gay. Perhaps that the toxic masculinity he's grown up around - which is intimately tied to the homophobia - won't let him say it as a man, a black man, a man in a position of authority (note that Isaac is not there when the others scream Sam's, "I love you guys so very much!"). Perhaps it means that there is an element of internalized homophobia and Isaac can't say that to any man yet, let alone one he might be attracted to. Perhaps it's, again, all of the above. It's up to interpretation, but the takeaways is that of course Isaac loves Colin - he's eager to ensure Colin knows that in his own way - but the environment he's grown up in and his own personal struggles won't let him say the words yet. That's okay. Colin recognizes that it's okay, just gently pointing out that Isaac can't say it and silently encouraging him to continue working on that, regardless of what reason - or reasons - it's difficult in the first place.
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It's important that Simon feels safe enough with Baz to talk about his sexuality and previous relationship, which was comphet with plenty of issues to process attached to it, and talking to Baz about it helps Simon realize things he wouldn't on his own. It was talking to Baz that Simon realized he wasn't in love, he wasn't attracted, and everything about it felt wrong. He brings the later in CO: how he was always "getting it wrong" but he remained in the relationship because "it wasn't her fault". And this is very interesting to me, because it implies that Simon choosing to break out of comphet made him felt like he was blaming someone else for something that he felt was wrong with him, like a very fucked up, misguided version of "it's not you, it's me".
And this makes me think that even though Simon "never thought he was straight" he never really considered he wasn't either, nor was he ready to. (Chosing to break up also would've meant, at the very least, acknowledging why it would never work, and his lack of feelings. And Simon not feeling shit also meant it was easy for him to go through the motions not processing anything, which is the opposite of when he's with Baz, when he feels all the feelings and it's driven by wanting to be a bigger person, a better person for him. And speaking of Baz...)
When he first kisses Baz, he goes "look at me, I'm kissing a boy!! A guy! A dude! A male specimen, if you will," highlighting how he didn't really consider his sexuality. Simon is also afraid of looking gay (also in the kiss scene, he worries about being seeing, and then relaxes when he realizes they're alone in the woods) because he's afraid of judgment. He's afraid of experiencing homophobia (who wouldn't?). And that doesn't come out of nowhere: the survival instinct to automatically check over your shoulder to see if you're being seen? That's learned. That's something you do when you're afraid of being caught doing something wrong, or something that you know will have bad consequences for you if others see you. It means that even when Simon was not thinking about his own sexuality, he has already learned to fear homophobia, likely by experience. And this brings up a very real possibility that @ionlydrinkhotwater has pointed out: that Simon could possibly have religious trauma (homophobia in the airport, where Simon double checks to see if his dragon parts are hidden, it's linked to a lady wearing a cross. He himself wears a cross to repeal Baz, the anti-vampire=anti-gay cross if you willl, that Baz literally breaks and throws away to kiss him silly). That trauma could've easily happened in his time spend in care.
But there weren't reasons to think he could've felt safe and comfortable enough in the WoM in that sense either. The mage is clearly homophobic, and by extension, that contributes in making the school an hetero hell specifically for Simon, who was especially under his control (even outside of the whole "traditional roles the characters are meant to break away from", but also specifically because of the war: Baz being "the son of the enemy" definitely made everything worst).
Simon was caught in comphet in Watford (and he's initially afraid the person that was caught in it with him wouldn't accept him if he told her he's into Baz, he pictures her going "what would the mage say?"). Baz wasn't out and proud in there either (his own paternal figure is also homophobic), and he was hiding his vampirism (tied to his queerness). Funnily enough, the first time Simon experiences his own queerness tied to monsterhood (growing wings) he gets sucked outside of the school (and is forced to face the manifestation of his hunger for love). Simon and Baz never really act on their feelings until they're outside of Watford (in fact, they never met outside of it until they're on good terms either). The leavers ball was the only time they were gay together in the school (Simon had his tail out). (Penny's rommate did have a gf tho, didn't she? Good for the sapphics!)
Simon being ok at being openly gay at ikea is a huge step for him. Also notable in awtwb is how Baz, who noticed Simon's apprehension, also notes how Simon seems to get off at public displays of affection, and you know what? Good for him! It means that he's ready to say fuck you to his previous fears, because being with Baz makes him happy, and he's feeling comfortable and confident enough to act on his attraction to him. (Also important: Lady Ruth being fully accepting of Simon and Baz, even before she knows he's part of her family. It means Simon finally has somewhere outside of his own flat where he knows he doesn't have to hide his affection to his gay partner)
#local tumblr queer user abuses the word comphet in a long ass post once again#nobody is reading this word vomit but i shall post it regardless#snowbaz#simon snow#baz pitch#baz x simon#simon snow trilogy#baz grimm pitch#awtwb#carry on
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Supporting a racist isn't as progressive as you think.
⚠⚠⚠⚠BIG BIG BIG DISCLAIMER
DO NOT HARARSS THE USER MENTIONED.
IF YOU HARASS THE ACCOUNT MENTIONED I WILL NOT HESITATE TO PUBLICALLY SHAME YOU.
THAT ISN'T A JOKE, THERE IS NO ROOM FOR MORE FUCKING BULLYING ON THIS SITE. THIS POST IS NOT HATEFUL BUT A CALLOUT AND CRITQUE OF A POPULAR USER.
So I decided I wanted to start my tumblr presence with a bang.
Or at least in the fact that IK at least someone will get big mad over this, but I simply don't care.
Here's some background before this post continues about the subjects of this post:
A popular blog on here that has gotten on my nerves a few times with how blatantly performative she is, girlgerard, who I will refer to as GG.(she/him)
(hello from your search mentions, I don't come in peace)
And the subject she talks about, Lyn-z Way, bass 'player' of the racist band MSI, and wife of girlgerard's fave, Gerard Way. (Lynz-she/her, Gerard- he/they)
So with that background, you might be asking, 'yo! how do these people connect at all?'
That is very valid to ask.
Girlgerard is a person who stans Gerard way so much that if he were criticism or critique. Therefore as someone who stans G Way he stands Lyn-z, and even defended Lyn-z. (Plus made a weird comment about their relationship)
First as a brief mention about Lyn-z, it is public knowledge in the MCR space, that she is apart of the Band MSI, who's lead singer says the N-word in multiple songs, and is an alleged pedophile. Lyn-z has also race faked very publicly, on twitter.
So with that being said, you can tell why people dislike Lyn-z, she's pretty much an all around POS.
Instead of recognizing his fave's wife is a bad person, while still liking Gerard, GG has weaponized Lyn-z's queerness and womanhood to excuse, or at the very least diminish, Lyn-z's racism.
Saying that people attack her because they're misoginistic, and listing reasons in this photo below (alt text in image description)
Yes, I know that is a lot to cover, but I will break it down, and why I disagree with her, in simple chunks.
1. From what I've seen and experienced on twitter, most people do not like her because she is racist/race faked. I remember once instance where someone made a very uncouth joke about harming Lyn-z, which was also very sexist, and people that called out her before went after, reported and called them out immediately.
2. A nit pick, GG did not have to mention he was Indian in the first post for the anons sending vile messages to her part to have an impact.
3. No one gives a shit that you want Gerard to be happy. People do give a shit that you have defended a literal racist. And yk, maybe the mentioning of ethnicity plays an unintended ironic role. It makes no sense you defend her.
4. Being weirdly sexual. I get it you were being sarcastic about the pegging line, but there is a trend about these oddly sexual jokes that I will bring up later in the post.
5. Lyn-z has said mentioned was a fan of a transphobic, antisemitic, and racist drag queen, Sharon Needles, a few times, it is valid for people to call her a transphobe, or a terf, with how white girl feminist she is, because of that. A specific instance of her supporting this drag queen was a photo she posted on twitter in 2012.
6.A queer person can be homophobic. Queer people might have a lot of internalized homophobia, or even might be homophobic themselves. We see this a lot in the queer community, as an example, with how bisexuals are treated, and queer people who have been brainwashed by homophobic rhetoric. Do I think Lyn-z is homophobic? Most probably she is not. She toured with a queer man for years and has claimed to be bisexual herself, but I do see how someone can see her as homophobic without that context.
If you as a brown person think you should not be defending her, don't defend her. Racism halts any exception.
7.It doesn't matter that people do not know Lyn-z, if she has affected them negatively. Lyn-z has done a lot for people to dislike her, defended a pedo, supported racist and antisemitic bands and people, be a performative feminist, a performative anti-racist, race fake, and more. It is not misogynistic to dislike her for those reasons, even if they don't know her. I promise none of that correlates to her womanhood, except for her using her white woman tears to defend herself on twitter.
8.There is nothing vitriol about valid critique and distain of her behavior.
9.There was and is genuine discussion and intent for discussion about racial dynamics, assuming you didn't just put that phrase in there to sound smart. People call her out because of how she uses her whiteness, and even womanhood, to appropriate other cultures and defend her racism in MSI.
(By the womanhood example I mean her saying things on twitter, I'm paraphrasing with this, like 'what would I do if my daughter google searches her mother and sees all these horrible things about her', which she was referring to call outs about Jimmy and MSI, not misogyny.)
It seems GG views Lyn-z not as a person to be judged on her own merits, but to be judged on his bias of Gerard. She brings joy to Gerard, so she can't be critiqued, because Gerard can't be critiqued. Some strong cognitive dissonance is going on here. Although she has mentioned she isn't the biggest fan of Lyn-z, he fangirls over photos, and defends her Lyn-z because Gerard is in the equation.
Not only fangirling, but defending. Again only because he views her as an asset to Gerard.
There is a lot of things wrong with this post. A lot. Once again I will break it down into manageable chunks.
1.First of all, what's with this 'kys anons' thing? Seems hypocritical...
2.Gerard is GNC, but has never mentioned being trans. It seems from a lot of GG's posts that she uses a lot of gender essentialism to support the fact that he views Gerard as a trans-femme. Using the fact Gerard wore skirts to call him a Girl in various ways, just feels demeaning to Gerard's explicit statements that he does not want to be assumed about. Gerard might not fit gender norms, but that doesn't mean he identifies with the trans label.
GNC ≠ Trans
3.The use of dyke. Calling a couple dykes just because you think they are a lesbian couple is extremely homophobic. Calling someone a slur in general is extremely hateful, and this is situation seems like fetishization of trans lesbians. I had mentioned before that I feel some of GG's posts feel sexual in an off kilter way, this is one of them. Referring to the couple as just terms like femme4femme without the couple being lesbian in any remote way feels like she's searching up a porn category.
I know GG backtracked on some posts, idk if this one in general, saying it's all just a joke, but calling someone a slur and misgendering them is simply not funny.
(plus GG to this day refers to Gerard, (and sometimes Ray) as a woman, uses she/her, calls her girl, etc. The 'its just a joke' statement was just to save his ass from people getting mad she misgendered and sexualized them. It's never just a joke.)
So why write all this?
Girlgerard has made a few posts recently focused on helping out poc, but only using the most basic ways of helping people out, in the short term. And barely addressing the actual racism that change our racist system that keeps poc in poverty. Instead of promoting things that will cause long term change on top of the short term.
It's very hypocritical that he want's to help other poc out but supports a racist, and has called other minorities, that suffer from this system, slurs.
In conclusion, girlgerard's support of Lyn-z shows how he actively will excuse Racist, Homophobic, and antisemitic people if her fave loves that person.
ONCE AGAIN THIS ISN'T AN INVITATION TO HARASS GIRLGERARD⚠⚠⚠
#gerard way#girlgerard#tw msi#tw d slur#no way lynz way#tw homophobia mention#tw antisemitism mention#tw racism mention#tw suibaiting#tw sexualization mention#tw suicide threats mention#if i get random anons telling me to kms istg i wont be surprised its happened to other ppl calling gg out#msi is racist therefore lynz is#get out of your echochamber
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Dude what is up with the person in ur replies. “Trans men don’t face transmisogyny but they do face transmisogyny” like???
The need to completely separate the experiences of trans women vs trans men, or even worse, reinvent the binary of “good gender vs bad gender” just hurts trans men, trans women, and the rest of us.
Always always in these conversations, a trans person (not even always or most often a trans woman) comes in with the hot take that anything that trans men face that isn’t “minor” transphobia, is just “misdirected” violence actually meant for trans women.
Trans men can’t ever be victims because they’re men, trans women and other trans folks can’t ever be laterally aggressive, because it’s Man vs The Oppressed.
These talks always are so hypocritical.
Trans men, apparently, are all supremely deeply privileged with male privilege in every aspect of their lives from the moment that they ID as men, and if they fail to recognize and atone for their Male Oppressor Status, then they are simply oppressing everyone more with their privilege. I definitely know what a privilege is.
There is common enough belief that the only misogyny trans men face is misogyny directed by the patriarchy at cis men. “Boys can’t cry”, male victims of SA, toxic masculinity, that sort of thing. When in reality, every single trans man who doesn’t pass for cis in 100% of scenarios is going to experience the usual levels of misogyny society puts on women also.
Apparently if you don’t pass it’s your fault, and you actually bring it upon yourself so you can be a victim, I have such good and healthy views about oppression.
At absolute best case, some trans men who pass as cis in all scenarios and can be stealth, and all their paperwork backs up the assertion they are cis…those men still have to fear being found out, because the moment they are, their privilege is gone. They are not cis, and will not be treated as cis.
The majority of trans men are not the above scenario. Even more complicated, is even if you are all of the above, if you are god forbid Black or something, the axis of your privilege changes anyway. A cis-passing Black trans man is not going to experience the same privileges navigating society as a cis-passing white trans man.
Trans men experience misogyny. They experience transphobia in ways trans women don’t. A big area for this is reproductive healthcare. You can be as cis-passing as you want, but sometimes the better you pass, the worse it is to navigate “women’s health” spaces. Trans men also experience antimasculism, a topic many lesbians and trans men have written about for decades.
And none of these things are “misdirected.” A cis guy with a faggy lisp getting jumped isn’t experiencing “misdirected homophobia” if he maintains he’s straight as a pole. He was attacked because he was perceived as gay. If someone thinks you are a woman and treats you with misogyny, that’s just misogyny babes. If someone thinks you are a woman but wrong that is misogyny plus antimasculism or queerphobia or transphobia and no one outside of that scenario is the “actual target.” The target is the target.
On the flip side, while it is somehow open season on The Men, there is suuuuch heavy pushback about discussing the male privilege of trans women. I’m sure even that phrase alone is making people’s skin crawl. “How dare you? How can you say she has privilege? If she’s treated like a man she’s being misgendered and so the other aspects of her identity—“ Yes. Do you understand now? Privilege is not a mark of being The Oppressor when it’s aspects of privilege trans men experience when they pass any more than the aspects of privilege trans women face when they don’t. Privilege is conditional, and if the conditions are not met, you lose it. Transfemmes have written about this for decades, notably in the transfeminist manifesto.
Trans men who “fail” to be cis passing, who are open about their transness, who are visibly queer, do not hold the same power as cis men. Trans women may have benefited financially from being perceived as men for a long time before they came out. Maybe people listen to their Man voice more in meetings. Maybe they grew up being able to walk home at night safely. The tradeoff is always societal perceptions versus reality. Trans women aren’t bad for having had whatever privileges were available to them, trans men aren’t bad for moving into spaces of privilege. Both are at the mercy of society as much as the other, albeit in different ways.
The radfem juices keep flowing so bad on this website, that encourage the idea that essentially trans men are traitors for joining the Bad Gender while trans women are forgiven for their past Oppressor identity since they have now joined the Good Gender. That is until trans women side with or support trans men, then they’re traitors also.
This simplistic and yet incredibly harmful perception hurts everyone. And so many people’s transition journey revolves around repulsion towards “men.” Many trans women distance themselves from anything aligning them to maleness to the point that solidarity with gnc men is not an option because these two groups are “not at all the same how dare you.” A whole little clique formed on this website a decade ago of trans women who just aggressively hate trans men, and the remnants of it are still clinging to life. Many trans women grapple with attraction to men and struggle to separate out chasers from the rest, because of course the only way for a man to like a trans woman is if he’s being disrespectful about it. Many trans women are locked into a losing battle against all the features she has to hide to not be a “man in a dress.” And god forbid you’re a trans women who doesn’t change those things or LIKES those things. Your beard, your deep voice, your masculinity…those are making it harder for “real” trans women to make it in this world.
Many trans men avoid aspects of transition they want because they feel like they are betraying women by doing it, or will be MORE of an oppressor. T makes you a violent evil balding misogynist, of course. Many straight trans men wrestle with the idea that their attraction to women is predatory because they are a Man and Man means predatory always—it’s inherent, not an action or choice. Many gay trans men are ashamed of their attraction to men because ooh this is Double misogyny somehow.
It’s so fucking bad and we have to push back on this kind of divisive behavior. Trans men talking about their issues doesn’t hurt anyone or often even have anything to do with other trans people. Oppression olympics, gender essentialism, lateral aggression, it’s got to fucking go.
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have you ever considered that vecna can, and probably will, target them both and the rest of the entire crew? why do you ship byler if you don't think there are signs mike is queer? if you hate mike so much you're so angry at people theorising about a compelling story that involves him, just say so
Nowhere did I suggest I hate Mike. I hate the way people have been characterizing him lately and basically give him the same story as Will. This is something that's been bothering me for months and I only said something because I thought I finally found someone who understood where I was coming from. It's so invalidating to Will's character and disingenuous to Mike's to make their stories basically exactly the same.
Saying Mike's aware of his sexuality, realized his feelings for Will between s3 and s4, struggles with wondering if Will will accept him is WILL'S STORY. And I'm getting so sick of seeing it every single time I browse my tl.
It feels like everyone's so caught up in Mike liking Will they lose sight of everything else about him. Mike's struggles are so different from Will's, and that's a good thing. I wouldn't want them to be the same. I want them to be queer in their own way and have their own thoughts/feeling about their sexuality. I don't want Mike's story to be Will's and I can't understand why everyone else seems like they do.
Mike went his whole life fully believing he was straight. And I don't see any solid evidence proving otherwise. Mike's struggle is coming to accept that he isn't who he thought he was. He's been avoiding and fighting his feelings for a long time now. His story is about how fighting who you are will only make you unhappy, and even though it's an incredibly scary thing to do, accepting your true feelings will ultimately make you happier.
Mike and Will's stories are different because they have different morals. While Mike's is more focused on self-acceptance after being in denial, Will's leans more toward self-love after being abused for his whole life. Will has to fight how much he's internalized everything people have said about him. Will has already had to face the people who hate him for who he is. Mike hasn't experienced homophobic bullying. He doesn't have nearly the same level of internalized homophobia as Will.
And that's what irks me the most is when people will try and say Mike's story revolves around internalized homophobia and that Vecna is going to target him despite the fact there's no clear foreshadowing and no apparent reason for Vecna to do so. I feel like I'm always just seeing the same stuff and no one is branching off to say "hey, maybe Mike won't be targeted and will instead have a more detailed and personal arc about him coming to accept himself and his feelings" instead of "Vecna's gonna torment him with Will" which is literally exactly what they've been foreshadowing will happen to Will.
Making their stories the same just makes it feel like there's a "certain way" to be queer when that's just not true. I want Mike's story to be very different from Will's. I want Mike and Will to have unique struggles. I want two different stories being told to represent how there is no one way to be queer.
Why is that so hard for people to understand?
#this theory in particular rubs me the wrong way#ive been ignoring it for ages now#i feel like it undermines the point of how every character has thier own struggles that makes them different#even robin and vickes stories are quite different#but every time people talk about s5 mike it always feels like theyre unintentionally making him be like will#it feels like people are losing sight of who mike is in favor of seeing the story they want to see#and im tired of everyone acting like mike definitely knows he gay when there is zero obvious signs of that#if the ga cant pick up on it it has an insanely low chance of happening#st is an extremely predictable show#ily st writers but its true#bi mike wheeler#gay mike wheeler#will byers#byler
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I’ve been scrolling on the byler tag and like I don’t understand something.
why is it delusional for Mike and Will to have similar internalized homophobia or similar queer stories. Straight characters literally have similar and/or the same stories.
And besides it’ll never be the same experiences between them.
While Will had Lonnie and the bullies making him feel like being queer is wrong, he was also surrounded by Joyce and Jonathan who made him feel like being different is good. I mean his speech in the van to Mike, saying that Mike makes him feel like being different is a good thing and that it makes him fight on. so yes, Will has internalized homophobia but it’s the 80s, im sure even Robin has it too. Like it was basically shamed if you were queer, who wouldn’t have internalized homophobia.
Mike had his dad and the bullies too making him feel like being queer will get you killed or that it’s a bad thing. Except he didn’t have a older sibling to tell him that it’s okay to be different because Nancy was going through something similar with how she thought she had to act a certain way. And his mom, though she told him in s1 that he can tell her anything and had a queer coded scene, she hasn’t since after. So he’s gonna have some internalized homophobia no matter what. But unlike Will he doesn’t have the side that tells him it’s okay and even better being different. So he conforms to the society norms and hides that part of himself, and even to himself he hides it. But in s4 he has Eddie. Someone had pointed out this so credits to them, that Eddie made Mike feel like being different, liking D&D and not conforming to the norms is cool. I mean Eddie’s speech about how “forced conformity is what’s killing the kids” probably wasn’t the first time he brought it up. And we even see it in Mike’s clothes. He finding out who he is and not hiding so much from it.
All to say is, everyone is allowed to think what they want about a character. What I don’t like seeing is people saying it’s delusional to think that Mike and Will are on similar queer storylines.
Why is it delusional??
They aren’t the same story anyways. They definitely would parallel each other but it’s different. parallel doesn’t mean exactly exactly the same. it’s just similar.
seriously. we need to stop throwing around the words crazy delusional or even weird, because like at the end of the day we all agree that Mike is queer. and that Byler is endgame.
we keep saying we all can have our own opinions and then see posts that call eachother delusional or weird. Like stop.
we’re not even fighting about different things. It’s like we’re yelling at eachother but we agree on things.
Oh anon, you and me both, I completely agree
I’ve seen people get really defensive about any other characters mirroring Will’s story, which I think I understand where they’re coming from when they say stuff like “he’s the only one with X trauma so don’t take it from him,” but also—a lot of queer people grow up with similar experiences? And he’s not the only queer character we have anymore. Their stores all parallel each other, even if they are wildly different.
Will is gay, in love with his best friend, a young teenager figuring himself out, has experienced homophobia onscreen, and has found one or more outlets for negative feelings as a result of his queerness.
In addition to, all under 18:
Robin, a lesbian, who likes someone from band she’s been shown to be very friendly with, and has shown expectation of homophobia onscreen—and has verbally expressed fear over being outed to the wrong person. Steve has narratively and thematically been built to be her queer support by s4: he’s not going through the same problems as she is, but he loves her unconditionally and supports her for who she is.
Vickie, heavily implied to be bisexual or somewhere under that umbrella, whose boyfriend was someone she wanted to go to a weapons store of all places with, and who now likes Robin now, a girl from band she’s been shown to be very friendly with and interested in getting along with. Her experiences with homophobia are more subtle, but we see her really jittery when it’s hinted she could be queer. I say that counts. Her queer support comes most obviously in the pb&j talk with Robin at the end of s4, though she seems well-adjusted enough to reasonably have more, honestly.
And, Mike—surprise!—follows the pattern, too. I personally think it makes the most narrative sense with the queercoding established if he was gay, but bi Mike and other interpretations are valid and cool, too. We agree he’s in love with his best friend, of course, and from the very first season, we saw Troy and his squad targeting most of their taunts about Will being a “fairy” etc. at Mike, and anti-gay propaganda being spread avidly around him. His queer support, like you said, despite the few others who’ve offered, was definitely Eddie. S4 was the first time we’ve seen Mike openly embracing his true self, and his one episode in Hawkins carried queer Mike being happy for most of the show. Of course, Will would’ve probably loved to have been support for Mike, but he has no clue Mike is queer, obviously.
So, yeah, that’s a long-winded way to say I agree lol. Straight cis allosexual people even go through a lot of the same experiences during adolescence, so why would it be any different for queer people? Hell, honestly, with the way the show’s going, I wouldn’t be surprised if we got queer Henry Creel in flashbacks, too.
I really appreciate the ask!! You’ve clearly thought about this and brought some really interesting points to the table, so cheers for that lol. I don’t know why there’s so much division about queer experiences needing to be totally different for them to be unique, but hopefully people will come around soon. Frustration is normal, but it always ends eventually, in good situations.
I don’t know how much I answered your question, exactly, but hope this was at least entertaining anon lmao 💜
#ask#queer experience#stranger things parallels#will is will and every other queer character is themselves but their uniqueness doesn’t mean they haven’t shared experiences <3
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