Found this comment on Reddit. Couldn’t explain it better than this.

“It’s clear from Mist and Fury that the original ships were: Feysand, Nessian, Elucien, and Mor/Azriel. Like it’s so obvious the way she wrote Mor and Azriel; Mor even seems vaguely interested/torn about Az. Looking at interviews, SJM even talks about Elucien as a couple (eg where would they like to travel together, etc).

Flash forward to ACOWAR. For whatever reason (lack of chemistry with Az, wanting more diversity) SJM has Mor say that she prefers women. This time the Az-pining-for-Mor is more desperate/feels like a zero chance of being requited. SJM also introduces Az as a potential love interest for Elain because she loves throwing a wrench. Just because Elucien are mates doesn’t mean they’ll have it easy; SJM’s whole thing is angst. She had to throw in a love triangle to make it uncertain. This is the first couple where mate status is confirmed upon meeting.

But there’s a problem now. If Az and Mor are no longer endgame, who will they end up with? is it not suspicious that the two new characters introduced in SF (Gwyn and Emerie) just HAPPEN to be potentially be good partners for Az and Mor? Like it’s not a coincidence that Emerie looks at Mor and blushes, remarking how pretty she is. It’s not a coincidence that Az and Gwyn have so many interactions in the text. It’s not a coincidence that a “random side character” shows up in a bonus chapter.

When SJM created Gwyn and Emerie, it wasn’t just to give Nesta friends. These characters clearly didn’t exist when she wrote MAF. SJM wanted new characters that would solve her retcon of ending Az/Mor. She wanted to solve the Mor/Az retcon so bad that she created a NEW RETCON of Az going to Sangravah. Like why bother to add that detail if it’s not important.

Also: poor Lucien. His endgame heroine was supposed to be Nesta until SJM realized they would be terrible together and that Nessian had better chemistry. So she gives Elucien the mating bond. Like is she really going to fuck Lucien over TWICE? She loves him as a character and has put him through the wringer. Yes, I agree that SJM can change her mind and maybe is open to mate rejection, but Lucien has already switched love interests from Nesta to Elain! Who else is he going to switch to, considering that Jurian and Vassa are “at each other’s throats?”

Finally, please think about the number of books left. Ignoring novellas (which are probably gonna be fluffy ones like ACOFAS where nothing happens), there are two main books left. Two couples.

Option A:

• ⁠Gwynriel (Valkyrie growth, Illyrian rebellion, exploring Ramiel, Gwyn’s autumn heritage and maybe lightsinger?? powers)

• ⁠Elucien (Helion secret baby, defeating Koschei, freeing Vassa, fixing spring court)

Option B

• ⁠Elriel (mate rejection storyline, potentially some stuff above)

• ⁠?????

Literally WHO is the second book in this equation? Lucien and Vassa?? We barely know Vassa and there’s barely any connection to Night Court. And Lucien’s book is going to be depressing as fuck dealing with mate rejection; does anyone want to read two heavy books of rejection? Jurian and Vassa: again, we barely know them! At least with Tower of Dawn, Chaol had been a main character for a long time with POV. SJM will not do a full-length Emerie/Mor book as much as I would love for one. She’s very cognizant of criticism re: Mor bi rep in the past; she doesn’t want to open a can of worms and be accused of writing bad sapphic rep. If anything, I can see a fluffy Emerie/Mor novella with little angst (or them getting together in the background of other books).

So from a meta structural level, I don’t understand who the second couple will be if Elriel is endgame. Lucien/Vassa is the most plausible answer, but 1) we barely know Vassa, 2) she’s human and Lucien is immortal. So are we going to toss her into the Cauldron to make her immortal? Serious question, and 3) I don’t want TWO books about mate rejection, it’s depressing as hell. I can see one but not two.

But with Gwynriel and Elucien, you have enormous fan and audience interest in ALL FOUR CHARACTERS. They’re directly tied to Night Court and SJM so far has no intention of staying away from the core group.”

SJM: I thought it was obvious??

AKA - No analysis needed. The clues are there. Things are already happening.

Please keep your 80 page PowerPoints and highlighted words from your “8 books of canon” (none of which are actually from ACOTAR, btw) to yourself.

“I thought it was obvious” = no deep dives needed. No extrapolation or analysis necessary. The words are already on the page. You don’t have to work harder than SJM to come up with your own theories (*cough* see HOFAS crazy hype theories vs actual book)

“I thought it was obvious”

The ONLY couple currently mutually attracted to each other is Elriel. They have had moments since ACOMF. ACOSF did not end them, it gave them the setup for the next book. They are set up for the greatest tortured forbidden romance of the series, how can you dispute that? Why would you WANT to dispute that love story? I don’t want ACOSF 2.0 which was all physical and no substance. I want an angsty, slow forbidden romance. I want to fall in love when the characters fall in love. Elriel will give us that.

“I thought it was obvious”

The other ships do NOT exist on the page at the moment. Elucien, I will give credit to because they are still mates so that COULD happen still. But right now, where ACOSF ended, they had barely even seen each other in a year. The only romantic coded interactions have been between Azriel & Elain thus far.

“I thought it was obvious”

Elucien & Gw*riel have not shared any romantic moments. There is no romance between them at this current time in the series. I am not talking about “what could happen” or “what could Sarah be setting up” because she said it was obvious. That means it’s there already. There’s no reason to hypothesize and theorize about ships that don’t currently exist in the book. Because - and say it with me-

“I thought it was obvious”

What is obvious about elucien? Other than the fact that they are mates. That’s it. That’s all they have. Not even a conversation on the page. Not even a shared shy glance or brush of their fingers. It’s the equivalent of an arranged marriage neither of them seems to want. Analyzing 20 sentences about flowers and sunlight, going out of your way to prove feyre is an “unreliable” narrator when she questions the bond (but Cassian, fashion police of Velaris, is a very very reliable narrator)-Why? Is any of that obvious to the casual reader? No.

“I thought it was obvious”

I’m not even going to spend many words talking about Gw*nriel, as I don’t see it as anything more than a crackship. They have like 4 platonic interactions. Friendly. Banter, sure. But not all banter is a clue that people are predestined soulmates. Most people who read their interactions are not going to overanalyze spark and glow and shadow behavior. They shouldn’t have to because - again - none of that is obvious.

“I thought it was obvious”

Shy glances and subtle scenes in the background wasn’t enough for those who claim to be reading experts. So SJM released a bonus chapter where in clear black and white text, you see both Azriel and Elain desperate for each other. This man is willing to BEG on his knees for a taste of her/ the end. Why would you even want him with anyone else after that?

“I thought it was obvious”

All these characters I’ve mentioned have been supporting characters this entire series. Nothing concerning them is going to happen in someone else’s book-but the seeds have been sewn. Any scene with Elain could have been written with Lucien or her sisters instead of Azriel - but it wasn’t.

Ex: when majda says, “if anyone can figure out what’s wrong, it’s a mate”

Lucien is THERE. Feyre is THERE. Nesta is THERE. But who figures it out - not her mate, nor her sisters - Azriel.

Lucien could’ve shown her the garden, feyre could’ve sat with her and listened to Elain’s garden plans till 3am - but no - it was Azriel.

And this man is the only one in the NC I’m convinced that has an actual job and responsibilities. So he is choosing to spend what little free time he has with ELAIN. What’s not clicking, folks?

“I thought it was obvious”

Sarah-we love her-but she is Queen of cliches. Her writing is not some insane thriller level that has you gasping every page turn. She likes threes, she likes happy endings, she likes her male LIs desperate for their female counterparts. The answer to Amarantha’s riddle was LOVE. CC had “through love all is possible”.

You really think she wrote the line “hoped love would trump even a mating bond” and it meant nothing?

SJM doesn’t do anything easy. But she said it was obvious- because it IS.

I have a theory…

Everyone is up and arms about the elriel v. gwynriel debate so if you get easily triggered about those ships pls avert your eyes cause I’m gonna be unapologetically brutal.

I just finished reading CC2 (ik I’m behind) and it opened my eyes to something SJM has been saying since the beginning.

Now, while reading this massive book, I had a continuing foreboding feeling that Hunt was going to be replaced by Ithan as Bryce’s love interest. Bc as we know SJM always switches up the MMC after one book or so, so I was scurred. BUT

I was pleasantly surprised to see that SJM did all in her power to reinforce the idea that these two are endgame, by having Bryce CHOOSE Hunt and vice versa — going against her arranged marriage, the royal lineage requirements, and the added complexity of mates for fae, angels, and wolves

It was refreshing to see Bryce and Hunt come together out of true love as opposed to SJM’s usual trope of “oh they were destined so they have to be together”. Don’t get me wrong, I love her other couples too - but Bryce and Hunt have always been my favs bc of this fact.

Then, imagine my surprise when I see that Bryce and Hunt CHOOSE to be mates. Simply bc the title bf & gf didn’t work for them. THEN, they’re revealed to be true mates, and their love for one another simply forged this unbreakable bond where now they have the same strength (if not stronger) then preordained mates.

Here’s where the ACOTAR ships come in…

Now…i don’t care who mrs Maas decides to put together. I have loved every single couple she has produced so ik I’ll love the next inner circle couple. BUT ik in my heart of hearts and based off of common sense that it’s going to be Elain + Azriel

(Also pls keep in mind that the ACOTAR fae are the ancestors of the CC fae, which means whatever Bryce and Hunt can feel/do/etc, first originated or was discovered in the ACOTAR world) which means this true mates thing that Bryce and Hunt have can have originated with Az & Elain

CC3 takes place after ACOSF, where we all know there are things needing to be addressed. Bryce wakes up on the lawn of the townhouse where Az is and there’s fresh bread & roses in the air…then everyone else arrives later. Meaning Az was at the townhouse by himself…with the bread & roses (Elain).

Some of y’all might think that’s a stretch or irrelevant, but I think it’s fully intentional that SJM put CC3 before the next ACOTAR book. It’s bc everyone in the ACOTAR world up until this point has followed the rules of “be with your mate and love them”, but now Bryce is there as a clear example of having a mate not chosen by some stupid bowl, but by herself and her heart. Which is something I think will strike a chord with Elain and Azriel.

Az has NEVER been chosen, and I don’t think (even if gwyn is his mate or his backup singer or whatever y’all are calling her now) he will be satisfied by someone being thrown to him, forced to love him bc of a bond. He wants them to choose to love him like his dad and Mor didn’t (sry Mor stans but she didn’t, she admitted so herself in ACOWAR)

Rhys (sry cause I also dislike him after ACOSF) is just like Bryce’s bio dad and is trying to place a barrier between the couple in the name of politics and what is usually done, but just like Bryce (I.E. WHY THERE IS A BONUS CHAPTER W HER, AZ, AND NES (THE ONLY 2 (-Rhys) WHO WILL KNOW ABOUT AZ’s FEELINGS)) Az/Elain will choose to divert that standard, motivated by the love Bryce expresses for her chosen mate, Hunt.

Plus, can I mention y’all also acted this way with Cass met Emery at the end of ACOFAS…and thought they were gonna be together before ACOSF came out and now y’all are doing the same to Gwyn. I personally think Gwyn has been traumatized beyond belief by men, and I don’t think what she needs in her life to heal from that is the man that saved her from that trauma. She doesn’t need to be saved or reminded of that time in her life anymore. Like, girl could still not bring herself to leave the house of wind at the end of ACOSF. Idk about y’all but I wouldn’t fall in love with the cop who saved me from that kind of crime, I’d move on and find love for myself.

No matter if you’re a gwynriel stan or not, we can all agree that the kiss at the end of ACOSF cannot be ignored, and this relationship between Az and Elain has been building up for THREE BOOKS. Gwyn has only been here for one. Take it from me my lovely gwynriels, and be prepared for disappointment.

NOW, where does Lucien fit in all of this? I think Lucien takes the same stance as Ithan from CC. Elain doesn’t know the sassy, caring Lucien we know bc the only interactions she’s had with him were when he sold her out to Hybern (mind you: when she was ENGAGED) and when he’s been around her bc he felt this need due to a mating bond. It’s fair that she doesn’t love him, just like it’s fair that Bryce doesn’t love Ithan. Just because there’s a bond, in whatever form, doesn’t mean that entitles another to that female’s love.

Lucien deserves someone who wants to be with him and as a fan of his character, too, I don’t want him stuck with Elain. Especially when she’s made it so clear she doesn’t want him. I think Lucien accepting Elain going with Azriel will lead him back to the Spring Court (cause it’ll still hurt, and he’ll need space) and give y’all that Tamlin redemption arc you’ve been dying for for some reason.

Either way, the answer of who is Az’s mate is a big topic, so I think SJM doing the same thing with him that she did with Bryce and Hunt in CC2 would be so bomb. Plus, she’s always said that the books she writes will be with the female at the forefront, so sry babes, there’s no Azriel book.

So book 5/6 (incl ACOFAS) in the ACOTAR world will be Elriel, then it’ll be Morr/all of the couples, and the novella will probably be Spring Court (i.e., Vaasa/Tamlin/Lucien). Don’t quote me on anything past the next ACOTAR book, I’m just guessing on those

Anyway, that’s how I think it’s going to go but I’m not the author or anything, so take this as you will

Hello everyone, today I'll do something never before seen on the flames and darkness liveblog which is read TWO chapters!! Idk man, i havent been able to read more than one chapter at a time recently because this book suddenly turned into such a slog to get through, although granted that might also just be my mental illness making it more difficult. whatever, i'll be in treatment for that next week

Anyway, today I'll be reading chapter 44 which is the star fall chapter, and chapter 45 which is. a chapter. Knowing this book series nothing of note is gonna happen in that one but that wont stop me from reading it

Chapter 44

Okay, theyre mentioning Feyre not looking so emancipated amymore and it made me remember all the weird weight shit from the start of this book. Like, she was losing weight because she was throwing up all the time and then not eating a lot and everyone was constantly remarking on that and it was unbelievably uncomfortable, but then when Feyre officially joined the night court and everyone immediately stopped talking about it, it almost feels a little manipulative, if that makes sense. Like, this book is ostensibly about Feyres healing journey but the Night Court cannot, under any circumstances, have anything negative associated with it so her trauma basically just disappears so we dont have to see the unpleasant parts of her recovery, she has one (1) nightmare after she starts living there permanently, one (1) moment where she feels too depressed to leave the bed and a few moment where she acts out but then immediately feels bad for it every time

Ughhhhh Feyre is wearing a dress for this which is really frustrating but you guys already know how I feel about that so shant go into that much more detail on this

I swear Im not just saying this to be a hater, Feyres dress sounds so tacky too

yoooooooo is Cassian implying he'd like to wear a tacky ass dress too??

and yet hes just wearing a BLACK TUNIC bro Feyre is literally covered in diamonds from head to toe so she can look like a shooting star or whatever and Cassian doesnt even have the decency to wear a black tunic that glitters or something?? Or hell, maybe even a red tunic to match his siphons, idk, give me SOMETHING im gonna tear my fucking hair out

Feyre is wondering about the IC being her friends and its like, girlie theyre barely even each others friends and youve known each other for maybe half a year to their 500 years

Feyre is describing Azriel hungrily staring at Mor's ass and it reminded me of that one bonus chapter Ive seen discussions about where he's really horny about Elain in a way thats pretty uncomfortable, and a lot of ex-Elriels say that it made them stop liking the idea of the ship because thats when they realized that SJM was just gonna mutilate both of their characters for the sake of smut, but honestly I dont think she would even need to mutilate Az that much

I could not give less of a shit about the Mor/Cassian/Azriel drama but I have to admit its kinda funny reading about Feyre speculating so much about Mor's relationships knowing shes gonna turn out to be interested in women

Mor says that Rhysand was very upset after she had sex with Cassian and beat him up as hard as he could (#incest) but she says he wasnt upset because of her virginity but because of the danger she put herself in by losing it, which is like, first of all that seems like splitting hairs, he was still upset that she lost her virginity even though that was none of his business. And second of all, I think it would actually make sense for him to have the kind of archaic sexist beliefs that would make Mor losing her virginity upsetting to him, considering he was also 17 when that happened just like Mor and Im guessing there wasnt anyone around to teach him feminism. or maybe hes so feminist he came out of the womb believing in womens rights and didnt need to be taught anything

god, the inner circle dynamics are so comically fucked up I have no idea how they can stand being around each other

Again, Im not much of a Feylin girlie but "Your hair looks... clean." >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You look like a women again." (???? whats thag even supposed to mean)

So Rhysand is not wearing a black tunic, but he is wearing wearing a black jacket which is equally disappointing. atleast he has his tits out i guess

Rhysand was gone for 50 years and yet his best friends are not spending any time with him at their first party together since theyve been seperated, thats what i call friendship goals

Yeah, I guess its kinda sad that Rhys missed out on important holiday that meant a lot to him while undr the mountain but you know who else had to do that? Literally everyone that wasnt from the spring court

So he doesnt wanna tell his friends, who are by all accounts doing alright because theyve spent the past few decades trapped in a beautiful idyllic city, about his trauma but hes perfectly fine traumadumping on a twenty year old woman who just started to recover from her own trauma

Maybe Im just in a bad mood but this bullshit where theyre getting covered in star spirits or whatever feels so joyless to me, like its not whimsical or fun to me

Okay so, Ive heard about Rhysand calling Feyre exquisite and it made me cringe just thinking about it, but it looks like theyve translated that to him calling her 'herrlich' which means the exact same thing but it sounds a lot less weird and bad. once again, thank you, Alexandra

Feyre really just said "You regret sexually assaulting me? But why?" huh

Chapter 45:

Okay, thats the end of the chapter but theres two more things that kinda annoyed me that I didnt feel the need to mention as I was reading. 1) Feyre kept going on and on aboht Rhysand being her friend, it felt so insincere, its like sjm say a post online right before she started writing this chapter that was like "in the best relationships, your partner isnt just your partner but also your best friend" and decided to put that sentiment in her book, and 2) I felt like there were so many moments towards the end of that chapter where Feyre is like "oh, ive never felt this way with anyone" and its very obviously alluding to how she didnt love Tamlin as much as she does Rhysand now, and it was just very strange to read, like Tamlin was haunting the narrative even though hes not even dead yet

Uhm. so i got really tired all of a sudden so I took a nap at this point and read some gay vampire fanfic to rejunivate myself and now Im ready for whatever happens in the next chapter

"I was a traitor. [...] Even though I oficially left Tamlin - it was only two months ago, after all. By Fae standards that was probably barely more than a day." Oh yeah, i havent been keeping track of the time thanks for reminding me that this story about immortals is moving at a breakneck pace for no goddamn reason. But also, as an author trying to write a grand long-lasting romance, why would you write this. I know Feysand are gonna get married at the end of book and now when I get to that point Im not gonna be thinking "wowwww such romance" Im gonna be thinking "damn these bozos did the fae equivalent of getting eloped in vegas after knowing each other for barely a week"

Oh, men of all ages are training at this camp? would you say some of them are. child-aged

Feyre is being all "its so cold here, im freezing in my illyrian leathers I cant imagine a child with no clothes surviving here for a single day, much less eight years" (referring to Cassian) and yet she doesnt spare a single thought to all the children who have to be at this camp as well because this is the camp that the batboys grew up in, its not like this is a different kind of camp where they dont train children

God I hate Feyre thinking about how fuckin powerful the batboys are especially because its like, Rhysand is literally their high lord, he already holds so much power over the guys running this camp we dont need a reminder that he could easily crush their minds or that his goons need more syphons to contain the totality of their power or whatever

I get that these guys are like, shitty misogynists or whatever, but I dont think Rhys throwing them out of the house they live in is some #boyboss move hes just being an asshole

Rhysand would never want to lock Feyre in a house for protection, but he does want to decapitate anyone who lays a hand on her which is soooooo much better

Rhysand keeps calling the.... "females" of this camp "girls" which implies one of two things: 1) hes talking about adult women, hes just calling them girls, which is not very feminist of our feminist king, or 2) hes talking about actual girls aka children which. thank god for our feminist king having equal-opportunity child soldiers

Its actually kind of surreal how theyre at the camp where the batboys spent their CHILDhoods and Feyre keeps talking about what it mustve been like for Cassian while the narrative is actively avoiding talking about children being at the camp at this present moment while also not outright stating "there are no kids here at this present moment"

"'[The clipping of the wings is] to ensure the safety of their women, they said.'" this reminds me of something @/kateprincessofbluewhales said in regards to Rhysand forcing illyrian women to train but not doing anything else to advance their rights, which is that the wing clipping mightve started as a way for men to help women dodge the 'draft' that seems to be mandatory for all healthy illyrians. I dont really have anything else to say about that, it just popped into my head and i thought it was interesting

Rhysand is talking about how at some of the camps, women are declared anti-marriage material if they train and how he cant do anything about that and its like, even if these women are not officially declared unmarriable or whatever, the misogynistic men that make up these camps are probably not gonna wanna marry a women who trains, so what difference does that really make

Also, he says the only thing he could do about 'laws' like that is to murder the warlords and take their children/trainees? under his wing and I guess he thinks he would have to do that for every camp that does that but honestly, I think just doing it once or twice would send a powerful enough message to discourage other warlords from being misogynistic. And he wouldnt have to raise all these children all by himself either, Im sure he could get the help of a few non-sexist men or even, gasp, some women. Like those priestesses living in that library Im sure some of the ones that have already recovered from their trauma somewhat wouldnt mind teaching some boys about the harm that misogyny does

Okay so the blood rite is called a Blutritual [blood ritual] in german which is a little confusing because a ritual is a pretty specific thing and I dont think the blood rite is that specific thing but whatever, it sounds cool enough

Ive said this before, I am not a Tamlin girlie, at best I prefer him to Rhysand, and I dont like or trust Rhysand at all, but imagine hearing that tragic story about how their families killed each other, leaving them as the only survivors and being like "I cant believe Tamlin killed Rhysands family!!" especially when its like, the only person Feyre actually knows Tamlin killed is Rhysands dad who sucked ass, its not exactly a great loss

I feel like i had a lot of thoughts about a lot of things in this chapter that I couldnt write down because theyre these abstract half-thoughts, so I think I'll let those marinate until theyre full thoughts and share them with you at some later date

https://www.tumblr.com/freyjas-musings/742671202419605504/im-just-curious-but-why-artists-draw-azs-shadows

https://www.tumblr.com/freyjas-musings/742670976839483392/i-just-cant-deal-with-elriels-anymore-they-want

I agree with these posts! I’ve seen so much fan art of Azriel’s shadows interacting with Elain even thought they skitter away from her and e/riel’s are saying that she will make his shadows go away, but in the beginning of his bonus chapter he talks about how his shadows will always be there with him.

They bring up how his shadows disappear around Mor, and it’s good since he had ( some e/riel’s believe he’s over her🤡) feelings for her, but that happened in ACOMAF when Mor & Azriel were originally supposed to be endgame. They were close with each other and had a deep friendship. His shadows vanishing, at that time since Mor who was his love interest, was probably a good thing and could be looked at differently, however in ACOWAR this obviously changed. Mor has to walk on eggshells with Azriel now. Proof of this is her pov in ACOFAS.

So Azriel’s shadows disappearing around Elain and e/riel’s thinking it’s a good thing because they do that with Mor, who is cautious around him, isn’t actually a good thing in my opinion. But they’ll argue left and right that this is good and that Elain makes his shadows calm, but there’s no canon text that she does make his shadows calm.

However, Azriel’s shadows had calmed, seemed content to watch him interact with Gwyn, which is actually stated by Azriel in his chapter, (and actually appeared to want to stay). They interacted with Gwyn in a positive way. I believe Azriel’s shadows are sentient and an extension of his soul. I think his shadows can sense the mating bond. Not saying that it’s snapped, because I most definitely don’t think it has, but I think it’s in the beginning stages. His shadows sense something is there. Which I think is interesting especially since a few days after Solstice we have that whole scene of Gwyn cutting the ribbon (👀), Azriel’s shadows also dancing again when she asked about a prize, Nesta calling Az the new ribbon, and his interactions with Gwyn pick up. When Gwyn was kidnapped for the Blood Rite (along with Emerie & Nesta) Azriel did react contrary to with e/riel’s say. His shadows AND siphons deepened. There was nothing him or Cassian could do though. Hell, even Rhys couldn’t do anything if they asked him. But both of them trusted in the girls to complete it. They showed their faith and support in them.

I think e/riel’s forget that the bonus chapter took place in the middle of the book, and Az’s interactions with Gwyn pick up after Solstice. Azriel and Elain have not interacted with each other (as far as we’ve seen on page unless it’s happening off page) since Solstice. I don’t think Azriel and Elain are having that secret-forbidden romance (there’s honestly nothing forbidden about it), because SJM writes her romances (and develops) them on paper where the readers can actually read it. Having a romance off page (that isn’t developed) isn’t her writing style. Azriel does say in HOFAS he doesn’t have a mate, but Gwynriel’s are fine with that, because we get to actually see their relationship develop. We get to see them become friends, we get to see them fall in love with each other, we get to see the mating bond snap.

I don’t think Azriel’s shadows interacting with Gwyn like that is her being evil as e/riel’s love to claim. Didn’t his shadows warn him about Koschei and the Cauldron? Surely they would do the same if Gwyn was evil. He felt a spark in his chest, which is how a mating bond is described and if you look at other mated couples, the bond is described to be a song between the souls. The wording with Gwynriel is so similar to other mates, especially Bryce and Hunt.

i agree! it's common knowledge at this point that e/riels steal from the other ships but then try to act as if they thought of it first when, no honey, 1. there's timestamp proof and 2. no e/riel has ever been that creative or paid enough attention to canon to develop widely fanon accepted things

even if moriel wasn't meant to be a thing (and tbh i've always been iffy on it. even back in the acomaf days i didn't really see it on both ends, and i swear a fan at a signing said sjm was surprised people shipped them but meh that's a topic for another day. maybe lol), sjm made certain to show us the difference in his shadows around these two women and tell us how deeply az values them. how they're his closest friends, how they're an intrinsic part of him, how they're not going anywhere. if once, them vanishing was a good thing, it's clear that's no longer the case. hence why they want the shadows to love elain but i'm sorry, that's just not happening lmfao

in my opinion, love is kind and sure and calm so the fact that az's shadows calm around gwyn is a huge green flag. like az is stressed af all the time! he needs to be able to come home and be at ease, to relax and just be az. without all the fancy and terrifying titles. we got this in his bonus chapter and they're trying to say it doesn't mean anything? really?? bffr

the "you're the new ribbon, az" is such an endgame indicator in my opinion. like nesta is telling us that gwyn has her sights set on az and we know how determined gwyn is. it's over for the bread and roses ship, if it wasn't already lol. the thing is, gwyn is a sexual assault survivor, az would never dream of coming on too strong with her so if anything happens between them, the ball is in her court. and then we have az who is canonically attracted to unavailable women, whether that's a coincidence, or some subconscious thing that ties into his low self worth... i don't know but to me, it fits perfectly together. gwyn will be the one making moves on him, or at least be the one to take that first, big step, and i think that will be huge for az who constantly feels he's not worthy or good enough

regarding the blood rite and the "forbidden" romance, there's nothing of substance there. just e/riels lacking critical thinking skills as always. if rhys couldn't do anything to get the girls out, what the fuck was az supposed to do? and no one is stopping e/riel from seeing each other except az himself so... you know. clearly he doesn't care about seeing her that much

why e/riels love the idea of every major moment of their ship developing off page, i'll never know. if i were an e/riel, i'd be so pissed. the fun of romance novels is seeing the characters come together and fall in love. and sjm knows that too, clearly, she's a romance author for christ's sake lol. she's not going to have these characters fall in love, move in together and get pregnant off page. no way in hell. that's also why they can't understand that gwynriels are perfectly content with that "he wouldn't consider her a friend but..." or whatever line because, like you said, that means we'll get to see them become friends. then lovers. then mates. why wouldn't you want that?

az's shadows know everything, that's why he's such a valuable spy. they tell him things he couldn't otherwise know. that's literally explained in the books. i believe they're sentient too, they tell him to sleep when he needs to so they obviously care for him, if gwyn were a danger to az, they would absolutely warn him. also the gwyn is secretly evil theory is shit because she's in part based off of sjm's irl friends and her villains are pretty two dimensional. so yeah, that's never happening lmao. even if (big if) gwynriel doesn't happen, gwyn is safe, so they just look stupid as hell talking about "evil gingers" or whatever the fuck they say these days.

i think that after so many books, true sjm fans know when she's working her mate bond magic. no matter how much others cry about it, sjm is a fated mates author. don't like it? go find someone else's books to read. it's as simple as that

Elriels saying that shipping Elain with Lucien is not caring about Elain and in the same breath they change everything about her so that she can fit they dark shadow man

Elain in ACOTAR:

Elain in ACOMAF:

Elain in ACOWAR:

Elain in ACOFAS:

If we are supposed to care about what Elain wants, where canon shows us she was happiest, then why do E/riels not ship her getting back with Graysen and living in the human lands?

Sure, she's found friends in the NC but does it seem like she's enjoying those friends more than the ones from when she was human? Does she seem as vibrant and alive in the NC as she was the human lands?

Sure she was entertaining a crush on Az but does it seem like her feelings for him are remotely close to what she felt for Graysen? When she was willing to openly declare in front of everyone how she felt for him, tried to fight for him versus she and Az tiptoeing around one another for a year and with a whispered, "I'm sorry" after he called her a mistake, she walked from Az, returned his necklace and a single tear on page she did not shed? Where we were given no indication that his rejection devastated her?

If E/riels are allowed to ship Elain with Az over Graysen because they acknowledge that Graysen was not the right person for her than Elucien's should be extended that same courtesy when it comes to Elain and Az.

It doesn't matter what she thinks she wants when the author has laid all the groundwork for why what she thinks she wants is not the best thing for her, the thing that will make her happiest long term.

Elain thought she wanted Graysen but the reader could clearly see that a fae hating male was not going to be her endgame.

Just like Elain might think she wants to engage in something with Az (still no clue what her end goal with that was) but many readers can clearly see that a torturer who doesn't encourage or support her growth is not going to be her endgame either.

Instead, Elucien's see her mate who is waiting in the wings, showing nothing but loyalty and respect for her, who longs for only her, who enjoys nature as she does, enjoys being social as she does, who has a similar view on harming others as she does, and realize that when Elain is ready face the things she's running from, HE is who SJM is working towards being her choice.

I'm not sure they seem to understand that characters do not really have the ability to choose for themselves, the author decides what they want for her regardless of how long in her journey it takes her to get there, regardless of who appeared to be her choice before that time.

But when the author tells us that Elain took both she and Lucien by surprise, I think in this case Elain had about as much choice as an imaginary character ever could. Elain made her wants known to SJM and when she mated them in that same book, it's clear that the author listened and went to work CHANGING LUCIEN'S FATHER BECAUSE OF IT so he would have the sunshine in his veins that Elain needs because she clearly did not see her ending up in the Autumn Court.

It is Azriel the author had reject Elain.

It is Azriel who has not thought of Elain beyond his sexual fantasies.

It is Azriel who avoided Elain for a year though she was still struggling, though Elain never asked him to avoid her.

It is Azriel who shows admiration and encouragement for another female.

And it is Lucien who has never rejected her and has all the makings of everything Elain's character could ever when she's brave enough to admit it.

That's the point of a character's journey and what Elucien's want for Elain. A true Elain shipper would be able to see that despite the outward face Elain is presenting to the others she does not shine in the NC the way she once did in the human lands. A true Elain shipper would see that despite Elain thinking she wants to hook up with Az, he is not the one that would truly make her happiest. E/riels can sit there and continue claiming they are the true Elain shippers but we'll see how much they actually like her if she ends up with Lucien.

I find it so funny that every time leaks come out, for the last few books now, there is always something good for elriel, and gwynriels without fail will say that Elriels are lying about Elriel being confirmed and are riling everyone up for nothing because these things don’t mean anything. It’s hilarious because first of all we never took these things as the official confirmation, but second of all, each time is like one of our theories coming true. We have shown time and time again that we understand and can predict SJM plots. Each time is confirming our beliefs in Elriel. It’s shocking that Gwynriels don’t even look at the evidence in the books, they just bury their head in the sand. I’m sure HOFAS won’t make them doubt their ship and they will continue denial. I’m sure they will spin it some how. It’s one thing to do that post-ACOSF when we had no new content. But this book gives us incredible lore about ACOTAR that it is easy to see where SJM is going with Elriel… in terms of bonds. They called Azriel desperate and going crazy when he questioned the Cauldron, and now we see that something evil was done to it. It’s just crazy to me that they probably will refuse again to go where SJM wants our minds to go with this. With any luck this will all be a fever dream in a few months! 🤞

I understand that Gwynriels are very very invested in their ship, but I wish that they'd understand that it's simply not real. I get that they convinced themselves that it's real and absolutely legitimate, but it really just...isnt. I dont know how to say it any other way. Gwynriel exists in their imagination, but it doesn't exist in SJMs.

It would be like me raging as to why Elain isn't ending up with Ruhn! Yeah, *I* personally love the ship, but like, I am rational enough to understand that the chances are kind of slim.

The issue, I think, is that they trust their mouthpieces in the fandom a little too much, and don't address the text critically. They think they'll just look at nifty Power Point Presentations, commissioned art and a few TikToks and that's enough.

I already saw an Elucien arguing about the Cauldron and how it's corruption, which was first mentioned back in ACOMAF!!! (dont even need HOFAS) is 'gone' and it's all good and mate bonds don't come from the Cauldron. Where, again, in ACOWAR, Rhys canonically offers 3 options for where the bonds come from--the Cauldron, the Mother and the Cauldron's Swirling Eddies/The Powers that Be.

And yet, no one contradicted this person or questioned her. Like they just pulled something out of thin air, presented it as 'fact' and that's it. No critical thinking at all.

But whatever. One good thing is that it seems that the shipwars are dying. It's been a long time and it seems that people are no longer blinded by PP presentations. I think they know that Elriel is coming.

You know what I find almost... IDK, sad but funny, I guess--when it comes to the SJM/ACOTAR fandom?

The ship wars.

I remember a time (an age ago and in other fandom circles) where everyone was just "ship and let ship". We all had our faves, our OTPs and even our NOTPS. We all had our PREFERENCES and opinions and like-- that's just normal human nature. What one person likes, another will not, and vice versa.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with such a thing!

But what the ACOTAR fandom reminds me so much of is the OUAT fandom when it comes to ships. And damn, that was a nasty time. A horrible time (a lot like what SJM's books bring out in people today on the internet).

Because it became about attacking people, hating on people, thinking one side was dumb or delusional or stupid and it was just downright HATEFUL. The whole "us versus them" mentality was sickening and, while that, too, is part of human nature (sadly), at the end of the day, it all boiled down to one thing:

It was all FICTION, and some people were outright hating on/insulting REAL PEOPLE over such things.

The ACOTAR fandom gives me major flashbacks to that OUAT time. Just saying.

So here's the basic thing I've learned after time in many different fandoms, after many different ships and faves and whatnot:

Stay in your lane. Ship and let ship. Canon will be whatever it is (it might be "your" ship and it might be "their" ship, who knows; that's the AUTHOR'S/WRITERS' decision), but you know what the fucking beautiful thing about fandom is--

WE CAN DO (AND SHIP) WHATEVER AND WHOMEVER THE HELL WE WANT.

I'm gonna use OUAT since that canon is over, whereas ACOTAR is still-ongoing for an example. Canon-wise? Captain Swan (Killian/Emma) ended up together, happily ever after.

Did that mean those who shipped Swan Queen were wrong? That they couldn't participate in fandom? That they were somehow stupid or whatever other insult one side hurled at the other?

Fuck no. Swan Queen fans got from the story what they wanted, and there is nothing at all wrong with them continuing stories and art and whatnot with those characters and ships. Same for Captain Swan. The beauty of fandom is that shared ENJOYMENT of a source material and the potential to "what if" our way anywhere and everywhere.

Personally, I feel there's more story telling potential in an Elriel story than an Elucien story, but you know what? If SJM writes the book and it turns out Elucien, I have absolute faith in her that she will make the story work. That it will be written in a way for me to see it better (I mean, c'mon, lots of opinions changed on Nesta herself after ACOSF so let's be honest... it's bound to do the same with Elain in her book.)

But also-- whichever way it turns out (Elucien, Elriel, whatever), that is one version of the canon story. You want to ship the hell out of the other version? Fucking go for it!

Quit insulting each other for what one person likes/enjoys and just-- enjoy your stuff.

Gwynriel vs Elriel

Alright so I’ve been reluctant to post this bc some of y’all are wildin when it comes to defending your chosen ship. But I digress.

As an avid SJM reader, as we all are, I think one thing we can agree on is how f-ing good this woman is at hiding foreshadowing and choosing her words carefully to lead you away or toward certain plot lines

From my observations the only reason I feel personally (not saying it’s true or otherwise) that Elriel is less likely to be cannon is because of how obvious it is. Like azriel even stated in the bonus chapter (in a rather bratty way I may add) how can two of his brothers get two of the sisters and he not get the third? I don’t think SJM would have stated it so blatantly if it was… you know… gunna happen. I get the symmetry of it. But if it really was to be the case… why say it like that…

Also back to SJM and her sneaky ways of writing - and this wasn’t even all that sneaky I just don’t see a lot of people mentioning it and when they do they only mention one side of it - is these lil excerpts here

Elain and Azriel:

Gwyn and Azriel:

Do you see it?

Azriels shadows are literally repelled by Elain and just the sound of her breath whereas they reached for gwyns.

I don’t think Elriel is endgame sorry to say (mainly because a lot of y’all are v passionate about it and I’m afraid I might get cursed for saying it) I do think sjm worded it this way for a reason as she does many things. I couldn’t stop thinking about this comparison for aaaages BECAUSE it was such a distinct contrast.

I do wanna say the fact that both Elain and Gwyn were in the chapter with such contrasting interactions makes it clear they’ll both have a big part to play in his book. What parts those will be is only knows to the author herself. Unfortunately I do think that yes, it will be another mate story and since we know his mate is not Elain… yeah. And I knooooowwww so many of you don’t want that, which is probably whyyyy you want Elriel to be together so badly bc it’d be a chosen love story, but… mate stories are literally all sjm writes. Even crescent city Bryce and hunt call each other mates like- (but will be get a curve ball now that Bryce is you know where and sjm is also notorious for switching up the love interests? A much better debate imo)

"SJM wrote the Elriel interaction in the BC to show the end of Elriel. She only did it because maybe she had to explain away the feelings and shy glances and moments Elriel had together to pave the way for Elucien. The bonus chapter ended Elriel and set up for Gwynriel"

So you agree? You can acknowledge there was definitely something brewing between Elriel despite everything the antis do to claim Elriel is nonexistent in the books following ACOMAF..?

Interesting. Okay.

Given this knowledge that there has been something between Elriel occurring for the last few books... your argument now is that SJM had to write them "breaking up" and "ending their feelings" ... in a bonus chapter most of the world did not have access to?

By this logic, don't you think the people who open the next ACOTAR book are going to be confused then, to read a story between Azriel & <insert redhead of choice here> or Elain suddenly giving Lucien a chance after ignoring him for a year and a half?

The fact is, SJM wrote the build up for Elriel in the actual books she published. She wrote a tension filled secret moment between them in a bonus chapter nobody really has access to. Most people don't even know it exists. But yet, they would not be surprised to discover Elriel getting together in the next book because they've been built up in the actual series itself, not just one bonus chapter.

Do you really think - the casual reader is going to read ACOTAR, read all those scenes where Elain and Lucien avoid each other, read all those little moments between Elriel, read 5 books about the Archeron sisters and their bat boys, and be so excited to read the next ACOTAR book, and be completely unsurprised with all that foreshadowing when they open the book and it's:

Not about the third and final sister?

It's not even about her mate, who once upon a time, was a main character but now barely is on the page?

It's a book about Azriel, the third bat boy, and his love story with... one of the priestesses he trained? Nesta's friend?

Yeah. Okay. That makes sense.

And if that book is about Gwynriel... then the next book has to be the third sister? Unless SJM decides the series isn't about the sisters or women or choice. But by default, the last book has to be about Elain, at least. And if Azriel, her love interest is already taken now.... that just leaves accepting the bond with Lucien as a last resort. Or being alone.

Wow. What a great love story 😍 MATES BY DEFAULT 🤩🤩

Anyways, carry on lil ship war. We shall wait and see I suppose.

Is society moving backwards? The way I see fandoms behave is so off putting

It does feel that way when reading about how Gwyn's SA history doesn't excuse her predatory behavior towards Azriel. When I call out the person, they insist they didn't mean it negatively.

ACOSAF, released in 2018, shows Lucien giving Elain space, and Azriel and Elain growing closer. ACOSF develops the triangle, with SJM barely giving Elriel moments but reminding us that Elucien still exists, renewing my hope. The blasted Az BC complicates matters, featuring Gwyn prominently and Az's feelings for Elain, albeit framed as purely sexual with resentment toward her bond. The lack of new info for five years keeps us relying on the existing narrative.

Half the time, it’s just pinpointing why engage in content someone doesn’t agree with?

Therapy has taught me two things: if I can let it go, let it go. If I can't, is it worth my time to engage with someone who won't agree with me? If I choose to, I express it solely to avoid dwelling on it, understanding that my goal is not to change your mind but to clear mine.

Honestly, I struggle with this, particularly in the beginning, which is why I've revived my Tumblr.

I genuinely appreciate reading differing opinions; healthy discussions help me reconsider different perspectives, expanding my world. However, I prefer seeking them when I'm in the right frame of mind to receive them. If you're in my inbox seeking to change my mind, be prepared that I won't. Personally, it took a bonus chapter for me to even acknowledge Elriel.

And that’s lowkey worse because all I see are red flags for both Elain and Azriel.

Here's hoping the new ACOTAR book is announced in around six months, and a detailed blurb about the featured couple is provided, allowing readers to adjust their expectations accordingly.

However, the Bryceriels has taught me that people will believe what they want, and sometimes they think they know better than the actual author.

Cut because now I’m just venting to vent

I enjoy revisiting passages and discovering new Elucien parallels or details that discredit an Elriel endgame. A point against Elriel is still a point towards Elucien for me. Sometimes I worry about coming off as a hater, but I prefer pulling examples from the actual books rather than labeling fans of a certain ship as misogynists, illiterate, lacking reading comprehension, or delusional. We've all read the same books, and I just don't see Elriel the same way they do.

Even though I'm the one providing quotes that Elucien's bond snapped, emphasizing that Lucien and Tamlin weren't involved in their kidnapping, clarifying that Azriel didn't lunge for Elain, and pointing out that Azriel did care when Gwyn was taken, it's frustrating to encounter absurd nitpicking. Responses like "the thread is on the lower rib and that doesn't feel like where it should be," "they were still involved with Hybern," "that's because of the ash arrow," "Emerie is there too," and "Madja overheard them talking about it, that's how she knew Lucien is Elain's fake mate" make it challenging to have constructive discussions.

If there's a need to prompt people to reread the series with a focus on specific clues, it suggests that those details weren't initially apparent or obvious from the beginning.

I love your posts about Elain but we ship her with different guy. I think Az do not only lusts for her but it's a redflg that he gave the necklace to another woman something I doubt Lucien would do. Plus, Az and Elain gives a vibe that they are just friends or siblings. I'm not forcing you to like my ship I just think it's being hypocritical of you to stan her but ship her with a lustful guy and who doesn't trust her.

Also, I'd like to say that Az giving the necklace to Gwyn is a foreshadowing of them being endgame.

This is just my opinion and observation. I don't need any fight so if you're going to answer please be respectful. That's all

Ok, streeeetch. I promised before I would never answer anon from other side again, but well.

Okay anon, well, first thank you for liking my posts about Elain. And I really don't care if we ship her with different guy as long as we both know Elain's worth and capabilities.

Second, okay, honestly this is so exhausting. Like idk how many Elriels already explained this one but do you understand what you said "lusting over Elain" and then them being "friends or siblings". I'm gonna explain these two opposite claims tho, (but pls next time try to stick with one claim to debunk Elriel and not always contradicting your own claim)

"Azriel only lust for Elain" first, the guy didn't look at Elain for the very first time and wanted to have her right there and then. No, their relationship gradually moves from friends to lovers (tho not exactly lovers atm). Here's a canon build up between these two. And I'd like you to also read this line from the Bonus Chapter:

So he slept only when his body gave out, and even then only for a few hours.

This is not a guy who only "lusts" after Elain. The man cannot sleep and only when his body gave out, he's clearly suffering. In pain. And it's so obvious why. He said it to Rhysand:

“What if the Cauldron was wrong?”

He cannot sleep, knowing that the girl he loves is mated to another male. If this still sounds only lusts for you, let me clear that Azriel can have any woman he want. He can fuck any woman he want, but no, he wants Elain because he feels more than lust.

And if it's still not enough for you, after smelling Elain's arousal I don't think Az would wait for Elain's permission for him to kiss her if he only feels lust:

Offer and permission. He nearly groaned with relief and need as he lowered his head toward hers.

Not only that, you all always fail to see the build up between them before this sexual tension. Like Azriel offering a smile of comfort, Azriel saving Elain, Azriel showing Elan the garden, Azriel carrying her, Azriel sprawled in the chaise with Elain, Azriel throwing his head laughing at Elain's gesture, Azriel being protective of her in a very normal and rational way and so on and on. They formed a good friendship before this happened :

Until his palm lay flat against her neck. It had never gone this far. They’d exchanged looks, the occasional brush of their fingers, but never this. Never blatant, unrestricted touching. Wrong—it was so wrong. He didn’t care.

So tell me, if this is not a good build up.

Next, "he doesn't trust her" please also remember this scene where Az gave her the TT, if it's not trust then idk. And, again and again, idk what y'all guys are reading but this is a romance fantasy series, and sjm loves her MMC to be protective not in a toxic way, no. Az was afraid of what will happen to Elain because HE CARES. He cares for her. And any man who cares for his girl would never want to expose his girl willingly to darkness.

Next, Elain and Az gives a "just friends/siblings" vibe HAHA, sure. If that's what you wanted to believe. But I dont think this is how friends or siblings act:

Her arousal drifted up to him, and his eyes nearly rolled back in his head at the sweet scent. He’d beg on his knees for a chance to taste it. But Azriel just stroked her neck again.

And all the times Feyre noticed how good they would be together and Nesta seeing the charged glance between them.

Next, "Az giving the necklace to another woman is a redflag." But what's redflag for me is giving a woman a secondhand gift. Lmao. At least, Az bought the necklace thinking of Elain.

And then, the damn necklace "given" to Gwyn, I tried my best to keep quiet at this never ending argument about this thing but

He found Elain’s necklace amid the pile. He pocketed it. //

That necklace, was always meant for Elain. Azriel bought that necklace for Elain, thinking of Elain and even calling it Elain's necklace. Gwyn is a second choice. The necklace is a secondhand gift for her. So I'm sorry if I prefer a guy who will first think of my girl stan while buying a gift than shipping a girl with a guy who gives her a secondhand gift.

“Look, I . . .” Az searched for the words, his voice becoming quiet. “If there’s another priestess here who might appreciate it, give it to them. But I’m not taking that necklace with me when I leave.”

See here, the guy is desperate to get rid of that necklace. Because it reminds him of his pain, and y'all really here thinking the secondhand gift is a sweet gesture. Imagine, do you think Az could look at Gwyn wearing the necklace he bought for another girl? Wouldn't it remind him of his pain? If Az look at the necklace he'd not be reminded of Gwyn, he'd be reminded of him and Elain's almost kiss and what happened after.

The necklace debate and saying it's showing Gw*n and Az as endgame is, forgive my word, dumb. How are y'all fighting tooth and nails with every Elriel over a necklace that wasn't first meant for Gw/n?

If we are gonna talk about foreshadowing, then I'm afraid Elriel won at that one. Sjm, as an author, would never waste four books of build up only to switch her couples because y'all are being too loud about a necklace that not only meant for Elain but also symbolizes her.

Lastly, I hope my answer is respectful enough for you anon.

Why do people take the few interactions of Az & Gw*n and make it romantic or say that it hints their so called relationship, but completely deny THE OBVIOUS romantic coded scenes of Elriel? Those scenes where he goes basically to death FOR HER, the way she only opens up to him, their smiles and time spent together, the unusual ENERGY there is between them? That’s also mentioned by Feyre and not only. Even in ACOSF we have PLENTY of signs, but yeah, focus on the nonexistent ones bc y’all just want it SO BAD for Elain to not be with Az. That desperate you are!!LIKE WHY ON EARTH? Y’all just wrote EVERY SINGLE PARAGRAPH where Az’s & Gw*n’s name appear “together” and called it a day. Called it a “build up to their relationship”. Said it’s “so obvious they’re endgame”. No cuz I, ships aside & as someone that analyzes texts A LOT, I truly feel offended?! What books are y’all even reading? 😭😭😭😭 And how can y’all turn some simple interactions into some romantic sh!t that’s not?! It’s like saying that Feyre and Az have romantic feeling for each other bc they smile at eo or protect eo (Az more ofc). It’s plain… dumb? Like I’m sorry. 😂😂😂 What’s funny is that y’all don’t see (or pretend to not see maybe lol) the possible red flags & that whole light singer theory that actually makes sense. Now, that’s where you can say it’s hinted, cuz it happens TWO times; with different people. Guess who. 😂

No cuz as an Elriel girlie I have NO PEACE. On every single platform I’m bullied and I have things thrown at me that don’t even make sense. About this whole ship war. Read the f*cking books a billion times more and realize that YOU KNOW that Elriel is endgame, it’s just that the hatred for Elain is SO huge that y’all have to find any single reason to pair Az with someone else. And if I’m allowed, I’d go soo much more into detail about this whole Elain hatred movement, and say it as it is: Y’ALL HAVE INTERNALIZED MISOGYNY! On a scale that I can’t even pronounce it. And don’t say it’s not that, bc I SEE how y’all keep degrading her character bc she’s girly, feminine, sweet, kind, minds her business etc. Yall say she’s boring, but funny enough, she’s kinda just like Az, only that we know a little more about him. But yeah, she’s “boring” and “plain”, but he’s “mysterious” and “hot”. THE HYPOCRISY. I love them both to death, but y’all are HYPOCRITES and pick sides with d!ck having usually, and ONLY like women that have traits THAT MEN USUALLY HAVE. Explains why y’all complain all day and all night that Elain is not some warrior, doesn’t get all excited for fighting with swords or BEING A B!TCH! Cuz yeah, I also saw how much y’all like the mean asf characters. Makes me question a lot about y’all! 👀 It’s pretty telling for me what kind of people y’all are if you hate on a kind and feminine woman that minds her business. Like what on earth did she do so bad? Besides the things with Feyre, that even Feyre understood lmao, she’s a saint in comparison with the other characters. But she’s still the most hated in the fandom bc of misogyny and y’all can’t change my mind. I’ll repeat myself: ✨It’s ok to love ONLY b!tchy characters that are mean for whatever reason that fight left and right and have these traits that MEN usually have, but it’s OUTRAGEOUS to even LIKE someone that is FEMININE in every single way, that doesn’t put a sword in her hand and that is not a warrior 24/7✨This is how y’all sound. I guess y’all hate yourselves (aka women) so much that it results into this. SAAAAD. Y’all even invalidate Elain for killing the king of hybern, just like Nesta did and everyone around her. (El) SJM is teaching y’all a lesson through these books bc y’all put Elain down EVERY SINGLE SECOND OF YALLS PATHETIC LIVES. It’s in the books, if y’all wanna look. But it’s subtle asf, and it’s only for the ones that can interpret a book. Not for many of you I guess. 💀😂 Oh, and btw, SJM, the author herself said that out of all the characters Elain would be her best friend. She’s just that character that a normal human being would love to be around. Bc she’s chill, sweet and kind. She just brings so much peace around her. That’s the vibes. But ik, even with this y’all would disagree. 😂😂😂😂😂🙄 Bruh.

Whatever, I wrote so much and I don’t feel BAD AT ALL. Some things have to be said Ffs. Y’all are getting too brave for hating a genuine kind woman that likes to bake and plant flowers. 💀💀💀💀💀💀

Don’t even @ me or anything bc I know I’m right with everything I wrote here. And I have every right to also speak about this whole thing since many, MANY of you wished death to me, or told me I deserve to be R word just like my fave deserves. Aka Elain. Y’all are despicable people that don’t deserve sh!t and I hope karma gets y’all. 🌸🌸 The flower princess & the 👩‍🍳 of velaris says that we need to k!ll people with kindness. I think she’s a fan of Selena Gomez. 😂😂😂😂🌸✨ BYEEEEE.

Do not harp on me until you read the whole thing: I am team Elucien to be clear

About the Elriel vs. Elucien ship war:

In the beginning, I thought “Hey maybe Az and Elain could be good together”, but then SJM said that Elain and Lucien were mates. After being introduced to that I was like “I can see that happening and I can see that they would complement each other nicely, although I can still see Elriel, if SJM decides screw it, I don’t care if Lucien is her mate, I want her to be with Az” I could see both situations. But as the story went on, I was seeing more of a healthy best friend dynamic between her and Az and I was like “This is good, I like this better.”

And then the Az bonus chapter in ACOSF happened

I want Elain and Lucien's relationship to work out. I just can't stand behind the Az and Elain ship because of what I read in the Az chapter in A Court of Silver Flames. When Rhysand had caught Az and Elain in the hallway and gave Az a stern talking to. It slipped out that Az feels entitled to Elain, and a relationship built out of that isn't a healthy one. That bonus Chapter just pissed me off. Just because the other two sisters are with the other two brothers, doesn't mean that Az and Elain should be together. That's the cliche of the mating bond relationship, entitlement. Except Lucien isn't forcing himself on Elain, just as Rhys and Cass didn't force themselves on the other two sisters either. That entitlement is the main reason why I completely abandoned the Elriel idea and just jumped fully onto the Elucien bandwagon. Lucien's better for her in many ways and I believe that he can help her grow like Rhys helped Feyre grow, same can be said for Nesta and Cassian's relationship they help each other grow.

I believe that a healthy relationship is where the two people are constantly helping each other reach their full potential. That encouragement and support to grow being extended to both parties, I believe is very important. I think Lucien is a great guy, who has made some mistakes (just like everyone else) and deserves to be happy and be given the chance to change. Rhys would have the best reason to be mad at Lucien being that Feyre is his mate, yet he's giving Lucien the chance to change.

With all due respect, I’m not the one who needs to get a life. There is a large amount of gwynriel fan art - especially of that scene where Azriel rescues Gwyn. However, there has only been one creator who has depicted Azriel as shirtless. And, of all the countless (!) gwynriel shippers, only a select few people have made comments calling the scene ‘passionate’ (keeping in mind that for many, English isn’t their first language…)

And, even if you do have an issue with how this particular scene is being portrayed by some people in the fandom - why can’t we simply have a conversation about it? Especially given that the people elriels are ganging up on (who are real life people - not fictional!), could very well be SA survivors themselves. But instead, and as always, the default mode for elriels is aggression and hostility. I actually used to ship elriel myself, but couldn’t stomach being part of a community that is full of so much hatred.

You are also incorrect in saying that the comparison I made is like “apples and pears.” Literally just google search ‘Feyre and Rhys Under the Mountain’ to see COUNTLESS art pieces of Feyre dancing over Rhys’s body, or any other scene from the first book (which was incredibly traumatic for Feyre, and something that Rhys himself acknowledges was awful) but is instead made to look like this super sexy scene between the two of them. I’ve seen art of Rhys twisting Feyre’s broken arm as he winks, or art of Rhys drugging Feyre, and kissing her as tears fall down her face in disgust. Yet, I don’t hear the same outcry. As far as I can tell, gwynriels aren’t producing art of Gwyn being assaulted… yet there’s a myriad of art pieces of Feyre being assaulted (which is then also romanticised! By other elriels too!)

As for your point about Gwyn (potentially) being a morally gray character - sure, no one’s denying that. Anything is possible in SJM books. But, the lightsinger theory, by extension, suggests that Gwyn is lying about her past. It’s also in poor taste to suggest that the character who has endured extreme sexual violence is ‘luring’ Azriel as a means to get between him and another girl. If elriels care so much about how Gwyn’s SA is portrayed (to the extent that they’ll go after gwynriels who don’t paint it in a way they deem appropriate), then why doesn’t that apply to your theories as well? Or even how you all talk about Gwyn online…?

Do you care (or even listen) when gwynriels and other people in the fandom have spoken out about how so much of the discourse elriels engage in is actively harmful to SA survivors (and spreads a really gross and incorrect rhetoric?) Or, is it just another chance to dog pile on, and demean people in the fandom who just so happen to have a different shipping preference to you…?

let's go bit by bit again shall we...

TW: SA

With all due respect, I’m not the one who needs to get a life.

you are the one who is sending me anon defending the romanticizing of Gwyn's SA...so yeah. get a life.

There is a large amount of gwynriel fan art - especially of that scene where Azriel rescues Gwyn. However, there has only been one creator who has depicted Azriel as shirtless. And, of all the countless (!) gwynriel shippers, only a select few people have made comments calling the scene ‘passionate’ (keeping in mind that for many, English isn’t their first language…)

so you accept that you guys use that scene to show "gwynriel"? the scene that didn't happen in the book but you are altering the scene to show gwynriel? Did I get that right?

there is so many of that scene where azriel is naked. I see them daily. Like come on... don't lie. He is shirtless in nearly 90% of them.

and english being their or any ones second language doesn't give them the right to be careless about their language. English is my second language and I use Google translate when I don't know a meaning of the word or to check if I'm correct about the meaning and use it correctly. So get out of here with that mindset. they can use Google translate like me or any other translator. that is not an excuse to use that word or doesn't give them any right to be so careless. and passionate is not a hard word to know like...it is a word I learned early on when I started learning english so...

Especially given that the people elriels are ganging up on (who are real life people - not fictional!), could very well be SA survivors themselves. But instead, and as always, the default mode for elriels is aggression and hostility. I actually used to ship elriel myself, but couldn’t stomach being part of a community that is full of so much hatred.

the fact that when elriels speak up about a fanart being triggering for SA survivors beeing seen as ganging up on a real person is...just weird.

And there is this stigma that when a person is from a country or from an ethnicity or have some type of trauma that doesn't mean whatever they do or say about that situation is right. When other people who is from that country or ethnicity or have that trauma as well say that thing is wrong or triggering it should be listened not get their comments deleted or get blocked. and this case that artist is deleting comments and blocking people who is spoken about that art being triggering or any other situation closer to this.

and I don't see elriels as hostile sure there is bad apples in every fandom but where is your standart against gwynriels who bullied artists out of the fandom or bullied people to closing their accounts or people who got ban from gwynriels reporting their fanarts? Why are we not talking about that? if there is 3 elriel bad apples there is 100 of gwynriels bullying elriels left and right. but bc of their numbers they are more heard bc they are louder. when we raise our voice about something, we are shown as "ganging up on the artist or whatever".

You are also incorrect in saying that the comparison I made is like “apples and pears.” Literally just google search ‘Feyre and Rhys Under the Mountain’ to see COUNTLESS art pieces of Feyre dancing over Rhys’s body, or any other scene from the first book (which was incredibly traumatic for Feyre, and something that Rhys himself acknowledges was awful) but is instead made to look like this super sexy scene between the two of them.

I googled. only saw one. other fanarts are with either the twins nuala and cerridwen or Feyre as alone. and those other fanarts with feyre sitting on rhys' lab is from acomaf lol. Get that right.

and if there is anything else I have never seen them.

I’ve seen art of Rhys twisting Feyre’s broken arm as he winks, or art of Rhys drugging Feyre, and kissing her as tears fall down her face in disgust. Yet, I don’t hear the same outcry.As far as I can tell, gwynriels aren’t producing art of Gwyn being assaulted… yet there’s a myriad of art pieces of Feyre being assaulted (which is then also romanticised! By other elriels too!)

I didn't see it. and if you did why are you not talking about it in your blog? coming to me using this to defend romanticizing gwyn's sa...LIKE ???????

I only saw one fanart of Rhys' holding Feyre's arm and it was done way before I joined the fandom. What do you want me to do about that? Go talk about a fanart that was done years ago when I didn't have any clue who sjm was?

and the issue is not about gwyn's assult being show...it is Gwyn's trauma is being used as a way to get a point for gwynriel. Literally this is what I'm trying to explain but you don't get it and trying to justify it to me by using Feysand fanarts that I can't seem to find.

As for your point about Gwyn (potentially) being a morally gray character - sure, no one’s denying that. Anything is possible in SJM books. But, the lightsinger theory, by extension, suggests that Gwyn is lying about her past. It’s also in poor taste to suggest that the character who has endured extreme sexual violence is ‘luring’ Azriel as a means to get between him and another girl. If elriels care so much about how Gwyn’s SA is portrayed (to the extent that they’ll go after gwynriels who don’t paint it in a way they deem appropriate), then why doesn’t that apply to your theories as well? Or even how you all talk about Gwyn online…?

lying about her past? lmfao. Lightsinger theory doesn't say or show that. I don't get it. WHAT? I'm confused. It is a theory to explain why she is glowing when she sings or shadows singing in answer to her breath like nesta's power did. that's all about it. where did you get that for real?

maybe it isn't to get between the girl and the guy but there is an another reason. literally you guys made yourselves believe that gwyn is a love interest for azriel and when we theorise she could be a lightsinger you are saying we are making gwyn be in between azriel and elain. lol no. That's not it at all. it is just that we are theorising why this girl glows when she signs and all those singing reference in the bonus. I can literally give two shits about gwyn coming in between azriel and elain.

Do you care (or even listen) when gwynriels and other people in the fandom have spoken out about how so much of the discourse elriels engage in is actively harmful to SA survivors (and spreads a really gross and incorrect rhetoric?) Or, is it just another chance to dog pile on, and demean people in the fandom who just so happen to have a different shipping preference to you…?

do you mean when we said Gwyn might not be ready bc she hasn't shown anything about being ready and at the end of the book went back to library which is the place she went in the first place bc of her trauma and Gwynriels started assuming about her being ready and drew her in extreme sexual positions(I'm talking bdsm and all) and other SA survivors also talked about how we shouldn't assume she is ready and then we were made villains bc gwynriels twisted our words to "elriels say gwyn can't have sex bc she is SA" if you are talking about that...READ THIS AGAIN. I explained. you are not the one who is dog pile on for shipping another "couple"...we are.

Okay. Bye now.

This is a weird question but do you really genuinely believe there's no possibility of an elriel book? And if sjm writes them well you'll enjoy reading it ? I don't ship gwynriel or Elriel. Gorgeous Elucien fan arts are what brought me into this fandom and I started the series solely to read their love story. But with all the elriel "confirmations" I can't help but think that elriel is a possibility so I'm trying to mentally prepare myself.

You are so right, there is nothing quite like Elucien fanart in this ACOTAR world and if E/riel were to happen then we lose the beautiful aesthetic of Elucien and gain, once again, another golden-brown haired femaled (often pictured with the dagger she returned without looking back) with a batboy who has Illyrian tattoos.

Would I still read an E/riel book? I would because I really do like Elain's character and I'd like to read her journey regardless of things not turning out the way I had hoped but I'd be devastated over the lost potential of Elucien. SJM has gone out of her way to show us how complimentary they would be together, how Lucien is the only male love interest who has treated her with respect so far, she even painted the picture in our heads of where they'd go on vacation (back before she thought she'd be writing the spin-offs and was more open with what their journey entailed), so it would be difficult to act like those things never mattered.

I never like to say something with absolute conviction as I feel it's inviting karma to say, "well let me just show you how many ways you can be wrong" (😂) but I do feel very strongly that E/riel is not happening. For me the debate is "will Elucien or Gwynriel get the next book" with me leaning in favor of Elucien and E/riel as a possibility makes up a very small percentage of my thoughts.

People are going crazy over her recent interviews. That a journalist writing "Elain and Az" in her article has E/riels claiming that it's SJMs version of a soft launch getting us used to the idea of E/riel. Or even some Gwynriels claiming that because she said she wanted to explore Az more in the future, he's definitely getting the next book though to me it seems she's talking about a later book because she was already drafting the next ACOTAR in September (so wouldn't she have already explored his character?).

But what seems to be her pattern is whenever she has a potential love triangle (ish) situation, she goes quiet.

In TOG, she waited to release an Aelin / Rowan Bonus until after a specific book because she felt the bonus would be too obvious a hint about them ending up together as mates and some still held out hope for Chaol / Celaena and believed Rowan lost his mate.

We have the interview below that shows she kept the possibility of Feysand a secret until after the release of ACOMAF.

She also talks about the things she put in book 3 that she was looking forward to seeing her readers excited over because, once again, it was only her, her editor and a couple of critique partners who knew "all these secrets".

She was giddy to talk about the end of CC2 because it was a secret she had kept for a very long time and told no one about.

So knowing that she does like her secrets, shouldn't the fact that Elain and / or Az are being mentioned in interviews be something that makes others nervous considering Lucien's name is almost never mentioned?

It could just as easily means he's not her focus right now but could it not also mean that she's trying to draw focus away from him so the next book being announced is a surprise?

E/riels and some Gwynriels will claim Lucien is irrelevant, that SF was centered around either E/riel or Az but Tamlin was mentioned in ACOTAR 731 times with Rhys mentioned 232 times yet Feyre ended up with Rhys in the next book. Chaol wasn't even in Empire of Storms yet he got the book after and ended up with Yrene who had never been mentioned by name prior to that.

All this talk about buildup, relevancy to the book that preceeded the new release because of name mentions or how often SJM speaks about someone in interviews as proof of something but those arguments are flimsy because we've seen her do this type of stuff before and she still turned around and surprised the reader.

The Elucien bond was introduced in book 2 and it is not just Elain's bond, it's Lucien's too especially when for him, it's been an even bigger deal because his first love was killed and he spent centuries believing she was his mate. That's an enormously angst-y setup which is the exact sort of a thing an author would want to explore versus the one where Az can't admit to being over Mor while lusting after Elain but not envisioning a future with her while also being jealous of Lucien who has only helped them and somehow turning that into a believable romance.

SJM did not create Lucien in the likeness of Jamie Fraser who she was obsessed with, mate him to Elain who she said shares her energy, only to have them never explore their mating bond which is the most sacred thing to the fae and as of SF, we see that Elain is beginning to embrace some of her fae self.

Elain fighting her pull to Lucien by ignoring him is no different than Nesta fighting her pull to Cassian by pushing him away in the novella but it's clear their story is still waiting to be told.

I find it difficult to believe that SJM had Lucien chased out of his home in book 3, finding a group of friends in the human lands in the novella while the reader knows he's heir to Day and have been waiting for that big reveal, only to then have him showing frustration with his living situation in SF but plans on having him remain in the human lands and the defunct Spring Court for yet another book (which they need as a strong ally) while Az gets his HEA with Elain.

Where Elain and Az spend the next book building up the "Dusk Court" (because that's still a thing going around) when the "Dusk Court" had nothing to do Spring, Tamlin, Koschei, Vassa or Beron as we left off in SF.

Everyone keeps claiming Az and / or Elain are needed to move the plot forward but honestly, Lucien is the one needed to truly move the plot forward and Elain by his side makes the most sense because they as a team have the powers and the connections to make something happen.

Elain is the only one who had visions of the box Koschei hides. She is the one who had visions of Vassa and the other girls trapped at the lake.

Lucien is the only one with real ties (and not just "I spy on you to gather information" ties) to Beron, Spring, the humans (which involves the treaty) and even Koschei considering he was at the lake when Papa Archeron negotiated with him and he is living with the female Koschei is now preparing to call back. He is the "son" of the man with his sights set on the lands of Spring. He is the one who is friends with Tamlin and performed in the Rite last and the NC needs Spring as an ally as well as their army. He is the one who is friends with the humans who are leading an ungoverned land and it is the human lands that Vallahan has their sights set on. "The Queen of Vallahan even asked me what the point of a peace treaty would be when another war, this time against the humans, might redraw the territory lines far below the wall."

Az and Elain would keep the plot in the Night Court outside of him possibly spying elsewhere and didn't we already see him doing that in SF? With Eris also providing them Intel? What is more spying going to do when we already know what Koschei and Berons goals are and the goal is to now stop them.

To me, the only person that is currently in a position to make a real difference at this point is Lucien and the love interest that makes the most sense to help him do these things is Elain.

Lucien has been made an underdog by the IC and I think the fandom has adopted that mentality (they've done the same with Elain).

And it makes me wonder if they are not about to be the best kept secret of all if SJM announces an Elucien book as the next one.