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adz · 2 years

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Historians often talk about art as either setting a precedent or fulfilling the loftiest goals of that precedent - Frescobaldi and Monteverdi may have catalyzed the Baroque period, but Bach and Handel were characteristic of it.

That’s part of why Scorsese’s Goncharov (1973) is so storied in film circles: nearly twenty years before Goodfellas, the quintessential American mob movie, and in the midst of a sequence of spectacular films set in the underbelly of New York City, a barely 30-year-old Scorsese took an ambitious swing at an unfamiliar genre: poliziotteschi, the Italian crime flick.

It would be notable for the effort alone, but what no one expected (and few recognized until years or decades later) was that Scorsese wasn’t merely inspired by the grime and desperation of films like Banditi a Milano and his Italian heritage, he actually sought to reimagine the genre entirely - hence Goncharov’s centerpiece of Moscow rather than Naples, Milan, or Scorsese’s familiar NYC.

Because for Scorsese, the characters of Goncharov and Andrey (played by Italian-American actors De Niro and Pacino) had to be fundamentally alienated from the geography and history of their home. (The shot of the heirloom map burning in Goncharov’s study is no accident.) Why else force the actors into such unfamiliar sets and characters?

The discomfort so clearly expressed by the main pair in the movie was interpreted by critics at the time as professional inexperience, but it’s integral to Scorsese’s message, which is that Goncharov’s repetitive movements toward accepting himself as a criminal & murderer profoundly separate him not just from society, but from his own humanity - and that these choices poison Andrey’s humanity as well.

Thus Goncharov is not really a mob flick, poliziotteschi, or even a morality tale - because morality is shown again and again to be malleable by those in power. But it nonetheless became emblematic of those genres. Scorsese’s Moscow is Rome, is New York City - and Goncharov’s body is Russian, but his soul is in allegiance with no state, no syndicate, and no family.

#goncharov

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twinegardening · 1 year

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Creating Goncharov by albie [IFDB]

Creating Goncharov is a surreal game where you play as a filmmaker creating a pitch for a Goncharov (1973) remake with the help of Al, an indecisive peer. Premise Everyone knows Goncharov. Martin Scorsese's 1973 film is a cult classic, a true masterpiece of cinema. To celebrate its upcoming 50th anniversary, you, an office drone working at a major media corporation, have to create a pitch for a 2023 remake. It's an amazing opportunity that could launch your career. There's just one problem. You haven't seen Goncharov. Unable to turn down your corporate overlords, you and an indecisive colleague throw together a story based solely on information you can quickly find or invent. How will you reimagine the greatest mafia movie ever made and what will you do to turn your ideas into reality?

#interactive fiction #twine gardening #creating goncharov #goncharov game jam #goncharov #albie

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sassydefendorflower · 2 years

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You know what I find interesting about the Goncharov (1973) phenomena? Tumblr had the opportunity to make Goncharov and Mario or Andrey or Sergei explicitly gay - they had the chance to write the next cookie-cutter bland Gay Pairing that fits into the current fandom trends of ship hopping and washed out boring dudes... but they didn’t.

Yes, many people wrote homoerotic subtext for Katya and Sofia and for Goncharov and Andrey, people faked academic queer readings of this masterpiece or wrote about the subversion of toxic masculinity within the film...

But as a collective we decided that all of this would be subtext. We decided that Katya and Goncharov are married, and it might not even be a loveless marriage (the jury’s still out on that one) after all. We decided that it’s a tragedy with Goncharov being betrayed by his wife, and killed by Andrey (which is often read as a sign of love and commitment). We gave a side character the ability to break out of the narrative, Ice Pick Joe the only character who escapes the circle of violence while everyone else falls victim to the narrative - time is a flat circle, after all, and loss of identity and the inevitability of one’s fate are the central themes of this fake movie.

We could have turned it into a gay romcom or a mafia spoof or some flat reimagining of movies from a long time ago.... but we chose to turn it into something that is far rarer and more fun to analyze: a tragic tale of love and betrayal and queerness and the horrors of the cold war and lonliness and death and time.

Our reading of Goncharov (1973) is queer - but the movie itself isn’t.

(only that it is, because we created Goncharov and as such we are a part of its story)

#goncharov #goncharov meta #ice pick joe #katya goncharova #andrey goncharov #queer #meta analysis #not gonna lie #i like the fact that its not explicitly queer #and i love the fact that its a tragedy

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swamp-world · 2 years

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god i am SO frustrated with all of the shitty one-dimensional lean-in “feminist” takes on Goncharov now that everyone’s finding out about it. like. you can’t just boil it down that easily yk?? Katya is easily the most three-dimensional Scorsese woman, but I don’t think that’s actually because of Scorsese. even Roger Ebert pointed out that it was most likely Jwhj’s writing that allowed Katya (and also Sofia to a lesser extent) to actually be a person and character in her own right!! (i think it was Melissa Park who wrote about how this reflects early elements of Jwhj’s queer journey and life? read her book The Last One Looking for more)

it’s just that I’ve seen a lot of posts about what a #girlboss Katya is for faking her own death and making out with goncharov AND andrey AND sofia (YES they made out you can’t convince me that just because they were in disguise they didn’t both mean that) and don’t get me wrong I love that as much as anyone else but like

you can’t take this out of its context. the whole “and then she faked her death and used her feminine wiles” thing can absolutely be done in a subversive and empowering way, and I’ve seen some fanfics or reimagined endings that have her live and take over the mafia herself, but i personally hate that because like.

the whole thing takes place against the backdrop of the immediate aftermath of the russian revolution and the wars, with how it shows the intergenerational trauma at hand (i could go on for HOURS about the role of the kitchen table, it made me cry when I first saw that scene) and so to try to put 21st century feminist models on top of something that’s immediately engaging with the tensions of what feminism meant in a soviet context at the time (AND an italian context too, I’m thinking about The Catholic School right now, because while the events in that took place two years before Goncharov was released, it provides a good (fictionalized) encapsulation of the social context that inspired Jwhj), through the lens of a mainstream American man, is just flattening it down too much. it’s a miracle that Jwhj got credit for writing this at all, and that their writing actually managed to make it through as intact as it did (and I think in the 1996 remastering we got to see a bit more of what it could have looked like without studio interference, and also without Scorsese being Scorsese) but it’s clear that a lot of their vision for what the film could have been about and could have said was really overshadowed by Scorsese’s own style and goals. it’s no wonder film bros like it, right, but that doesn’t mean we have to give it to them wholeheartedly

BUT that also doesn’t mean we need to girlbossify it so that it can be easily digestible in a single sentence. twitter is dying, let’s stop with the 280 character film analysis takes, especially with something as rich as this.

#goncharov #goncharov (1973)

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fieryphrazes · 2 years

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Posts I shouldn’t make but. I KNOW y’all are not rewriting history to make goncharov a forgotten masterpiece 🙄 it’s literally one of the most influential movies of all time. How are you going to make that argument when Robert Altman literally reimagined the relationship between Goncharev & Andrey and made it the centerpiece of California Split…? And its Oscar campaign single-handedly revived Cybill Shepherd’s career after the Bogdanovich flops. Tell me you don’t know anything about 70s cinema without saying you don’t know anything about 70s cinema 🙄 know your herstory

#i am BEGGING you to watch more than one movie made before the year 2000

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manonamora-if-reviews · 1 year

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Creating Goncharov by Albie

============= Links

Play the game See other reviews of the game See other games by Albie or follow @gamesbyalbie

============= Synopsis

Everyone knows Goncharov. Martin Scorsese's 1973 film is a cult classic, a true masterpiece of cinema. To celebrate its upcoming 50th anniversary, you, an office drone working at a major media corporation, have to create a pitch for a 2023 remake. It's an amazing opportunity that could launch your career. There's just one problem. You haven't seen Goncharov. Unable to turn down your corporate overlords, you and an indecisive colleague throw together a story based solely on information you can quickly find or invent. How will you reimagine the greatest mafia movie ever made and what will you do to turn your ideas into reality?

============= Other Info

Creating Goncharov is a Twine (SugarCube) game, submitted to the Goncharov Game Jam.

Status: Completed Genre: Unreality, Goncharov, Slice-of-Life, Meta

CW: Unreality, Descriptions of smoking, violence, and death.

============= Playthrough

First Played: 9-Dec-2022 Last Played: 25-Jun-2023 Playtime: around 1h Rating: 4 /5 Thoughts: A deep dive into Goncharov lore.

============= Review

Following the Goncharov (1973) meme storm taking over Tumblr during November 2022, Creating Goncharov takes an alternative reality approach where this fake movie existed - though, you do not remember ever seeing it. Set to create a pitch for a remake, the game takes a deep dive into the lore and the many theories regarding this shitpost. More than that, Creating Goncharov is about finding passion in your work and creating relationships.

Spoilers ahead. It is recommended to play the game first. The review is based on my understanding/reading of the story.

At the beginning, all is dull and irritating. The path to your place of work is slippery from the snow, your desk is in a cubicle nowhere close to natural light, and you expect today to be as boring as every other day you've had so far. 'Tis the life of an office drone. Except...

...you find an interesting proposition from your boss in your inbox - one you cannot refuse* - you are tasked to create a pitch for a remake of Goncharov and 1973 totally real and acclaimed movie, coined as the 'best mafia movie ever created'. Which is great, since you've been trying to get that kind of opportunity. But... you cannot for the life of you remember ever watching that movie. * hahaha like in mafia movies

You are also forced to work with Al*, a co-worker you look down on - even though they are your superior - because you don't believe they deserve their job. Through exchanges with Al, it is not really clear whether they have seen that movie either, or whether they are competent at all (would they take your idea as pass it as theirs?). Still, they have readied some bare bone documentation to help you start. *the author self-insert - do they believe the criticism/jabs they wrote about Al B? I hope not...

There is little time and not much to go on, but you still push through and ready a pitch for your boss by the meeting time. And...

...you fail. But, this was expected, considering your lack of knowledge about the original piece and of concrete information about the plot, themes, or scenes even. As if, you were meant to fail... who gives a remake of a well-loved movie to a newbie...

At this point, you can end... or, if you believe in this remake and your ideas, push through and proclaim you will make the movie by yourself if that's what it requires!

This is where strange things start to happen...

You go to work the next day, and things feel more... vibrant? The air is not as stale, the office is brighter, you even notice other people during your commute. More than that... your computer boots to the same day as before, showing the same unread email as when the game first started.

In some weird Grounghog Day scenario, you are given a second chance at putting your pitch together, retaining (partly) not only your previous found knowledge about the movie but also the (now-edited) documents Al had sent you the day/loop before. Speaking of Al, they are in this loop more forth coming with their view on the project, their knowledge of the movie, and their friendliness toward you.

While the first loop focused on the general overview, discussing the themes, or (re-)naming the characters, this loop gets into the nit and gritty of the plot. You and Al spend hours ironing out some details about the sequence of events and highlighting potential strong points. There is a lot there you can edit, and show off your creative liberties (with cycle links).

But again, this is not enough to sway the investors. You have not gone deep enough. You're still missing something important: you have not pitched the scenes!

And this is where the final loop comes in.

Yet again, the descriptions about your environment changes once more, and you notice how beautiful it is. It is also then that you notice the building's receptionist (and even remember her name and exchange some words!). The people in your mail box also change from jokey puns to actual names - they are not just nameless cogs but actual full human beings.

The exchanges between Al and you are also more developed and much more friendly. You even seem more passionate about the project than you ever were before! Even as you wait for your boss's email at the end of the day, you have the option to do something outside of work, even grow your relationship with Al.

Obviously, this time around, the pitch is a success (on my run at least, it is possible to fail a third time apparently). The movie is made, and wins tons of awards, setting you for a fulfilling career path.

With over 50 thousand words, the game covers most if not all of the "lore" created during this meme craze. In the many edits you can make, it manages to essentially give an overview of what had been discussed on Tumblr about this fake movie*. Depending on your choices, you may see quite a lot of change in variation down the line (inserting Marting Scorceses as your name for example). *with the plot document in the second loop especially, it felt a bit like those Archive documents the community created to keep track of all the lore.

The attention to details is both a major part of the gameplay, enabling you to "win" the game, and of the prose, through the subtle change in the environment/your behaviour outside of work. This is also a major point of the "movie", as recurrent details embodying time, religion, and change, were put in the forefront of the Goncharov discourse.

The change in tone in the interactions between Al and the player throughout the game feel believable, as you become acquainted with them and find a shared passion in the "movie". The exchanges of emails in the third loop is particularly lovely, and the scenes with them while waiting for that final email is quite sweet. Albie has a great command of their writing style in that area.

There were a few icks that made me tick a bit:

While the inclusion of a Martin Scorcese timeline (if you enter your name as MS) garners some fun responses and variation, it felt a bit out of place when other characters behave in the same way they would if the player has chosen any other name. It was funny that Mr. Scorcese failed the pitch, but the joke becomes a bit stale past the first loop. [In the same vein, no one questioned me when I chose the same name as existing characters/employees]

Some formatting of the text made it sometimes hard to follow along. The fake shared GoogleDoc you edit in the second loop reloads multiple times but doesn't indicate clearly where you last left off (maybe a small translucent horizontal bar?). The email exchanges between Al B and the MC in the third loop could have distinguished better the bits between a description of a scene/dialogues and the emailers just discussing it (indentation, italics, change of font...). I didn't particularly liked the browser errors (a screen popup would have been a bit nicer and easier to close) or the lack of contrast when a popup was on screen (a slightly shaded overlay would have helped separate the elements).

The lack of discussion of the day restarting felt a bit like a missed opportunity. It might not have needed much, just the player getting a bit of anxiety or questioning their sanity from reliving the same day. Even if it can be brushed off because the player can have a do-over on their pitch, the fact that the player doesn't even flinch at the emails they receive is strange*. It could be interesting to have the player fail forever and only manage to break the loop if they give up on 'creating Goncharov (2023)' or it turns out their "win" was just a dream... *there is just the words "Déjà vu" at the end of the second loop...

With the edits of the second loop being so extensive (building on the smaller edits of the first one), the gameplay of the final loop felt lacking. You essentially read through threads of emails between yourself and Al, discussing the scenes, but you have no choice in how they are described (they do have some variation depending on previous edits). I think it would have been nice (maybe for a future update?) if Al or the MC disagreed on some points (e.g: plot points contradict each other) and the MC had to make some choices. There is a bit of an unbalance in player input in the current version.

While time is of the essence, having to scramble to create a pitch in a few hours, the game doesn't "punish" you for taking all the time in the world (e.g. discussing every scene, even though Al presses you to wrap up).

Considering this game was made in less than 3 weeks (during finals!), includes this complexity in story, the high word count, a custom UI, and interactive elements further than simple choice lists, Creating Goncharov is very impressive. It is clear the author has put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into this project.

From essentially using every fan theory out there about the fake-movie, to creating full scenes based on fan-edit posts on Tumblr, using the motifs (the clock, the apple, etc...) reblogged by hundreds of users, or including music created for the meme, Ablie has done their research and dove deep into the lore of the meme. They seemed to have spared no (effort) expense in creating... Creating Goncharov.

Bravo!

#Creating Goncharov #Albie #interactive fiction #complete #review #2022 #goncharov #unreality #slice of life #meta #twine game

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cassiopeianscribe · 2 years

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Goncharov is literally tumblr commedia dell'arte

Ok, here we go.

Goncharov is a very special occurrence because it is not only an example of spontaneous collective storytelling, it is also a storytelling without story at its core. Most myths fairytales etc. are passed down as stories. There are some missing details and you can change the stories if you want, but it has storyline at its core. What makes each telling unique is characterization, accents on certain details, themes.

In a way, Goncharov is complete opposite. It doesn't have a story, but it has characters with vague characteristics (sometimes too vague), it has setting, it has themes (mafia, loss, gay sex etc.), it has some ideas about what we can use to tell a story (clock symbolism, apple symbolism).

And it's great, it provides us with a loose framework in which we can tell stories that are both unique and easy to understand to everyone who knows some basic details. And I think that it is very much the same thing that made commedia dell'arte popular. It has some stock characters with defined basic characteristics (but you can add as much details as you want), some themes that you can rely on and some performance tricks that you can use, but ultimately it's your story. I can say that I am writing Katya/Sofia fanfic and you will picture it tge same way you would picture Harlequin/Pierrot College AU fic - you kind of guess what will be the main characters be like and maybe tone, but nothing about their exact characteristics, their past and their future, what are relationships between them. But you will immediately understand it the moment you read the story.

There are some other examples of collective reimagining of characters devoid of their exact story - Arthurian cycle is the closest, it kind of has a list of key events, but I can also just write a story about Galahad saving some random lady and it will count as a legit Arthurian story even if nothing is said about Grail or Mordred's betrayal or whatever. And unlike stories with public domain characters, Goncharov doesn't have a single source that defines them, they just crystallized from chaos of tumblerinas' collective consciousness.

(btw, I am using examples only from western culture just because I don't know enough about other, but I know that Chinese culture has somewhat similar relationship to its literary canon, so it is not something uniquely European)

#goncharov #unreality #why am i doing this i have exams

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