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oceanic-sunsets · 7 months

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Mike around El and his very obvious Not-Crush

I want to start this off with a disclaimer: I interpret Mike as gay, so this analysis and the points I’ll bring up were written with this in mind. Now, let’s begin!

Since my first watch, I always thought it was kind of weird-funny how Mike never showed any kind of shyness towards El, unlike the other boys, who the audience and characters in-universe never think of as having a crush on El.

So they know El is a girl pretty early on, so when she first goes home with Mike and he lends her dry clothes, everyone freaks out when she tries to change right there in front of them. Pretty normal reaction for anyone, especially 12 year old boys! So, even in the middle of their freak out, Mike remains as the most well composed of the boys.

He doesn’t turn around, instead, is quick to stop her, even reaching out towards her arms, and explain she should change in the bathroom, because, well, privacy.

He even guides El towards the bathroom door, and we know that he tries to close it but El stops him. So, he understands, she’s still scared, and again, explains she can keep it mostly closed, leaving a small gap open so she feels safer.

And then Mike goes to talk with Lucas and Dustin, who are still freaking out and talking about how she’s crazy, Lucas remarks “She tried to get naked” and Dustin makes the same hand gesture three times to really drive his point across.

And Mike? remains calm, really, his head is elsewhere, not stuck on the fact that a random, weird girl tried to change her clothes in front of them. Instead, his gears are turning, he’s already coming up with a plan so they can stay out of trouble, so she can be safe, and they can keep looking for Will: El has to stay the night, which Dustin finds insane.

So, I first interpreted these kind of scenes as Mike being the more mature one of the boys. He NEVER goes “but she’s a girl!” the other characters are the ones who keep pointing that out to him. But really, Mike just treats her like a human being (and then he discovers she has superpowers).

And really, it’s funny how fascinating they keep finding this, but not surprising. Again, this is a normal reaction! that’s why I thought Mike was just the logical, more mature one. But that’s not really why: he just never made a distinction or a big fuss to separate THEM, boys, and El, a GIRL, until later on when people kept bringing that up. For Mike, El was just another kid just like them, he shows her his house, his TV, his toys, and has no issue getting close and just treating her like another friend.

There’s another reason that points to the Duffers being aware of what they’re trying to do. It’s subtle if you’re not looking for it, and really, it just flies under most people’s radars, including our own!

So we all know this scene, right?

The first instance of Mike being directly told he has to have a crush on her, because… he is nice to her, and she’s a girl. So, clearly. And then the bullies arrive, call Will homophobic slurs and Mike gets hurt, we know how that one goes. But you know the scene that plays directly before this one?

It’s Nancy. They’re making fun of her/shaming her because she hooked up with Steve, and we know how this plot goes too: the girl is slut-shamed and the boy is praised/admired for “getting” her. Nancy is worried because she left Barb alone and the next thing she knows, her friend is missing too. And she doesn’t feel guilty just because she dismissed Barb, she feels shame, and the kind of comment she’s receiving just adds to the guilt.

And all this? it’s part of heteronormativity too, and all its social standards of what’s expected of people based on their gender and sexuality. Nancy? A slut for hooking up with Steve. Will? probably killed for being gay! The boys? get bullied just as Lucas is hugging Mike, even if it’s part of a joke. Mike? must like El, because he is a boy who is nice to her, and she’s a girl! See where I’m going?

Next scene I’m going to talk about is this one:

And… It’s a great scene, really. But nothing about it is romantic. The boys help El dress up, and Mike even does her makeup and doesn’t mind! and, I’m sorry, but what 12 year old with a crush is NOT nervous to be that close? he’s just 100% concentrated in what he’s doing.

And then El comes out, full makeover, and Mike’s reaction is just very sweet and genuine. Dustin hesitates: “She looks…” and Mike immediately goes “pretty”. Now, some people interpret this scene as Mike finally Realizing El is Actually a Girl. I both agree and disagree.

I agree because that’s how it probably goes for Mike, just now in the sense most people expect. We should keep in mind the previous scenes: Mike is now aware of what other people think/what is expected of him. So he goes “pretty”, and oh, no, she’s a Girl, I can’t say that! they’re going to think I have a crush on her! “...pretty good” saved it:) but wait. That just makes it look even more like a crush! So maybe it is a crush, right? So, I think of this scene as the moment of Mike deciding that yeah, it must be a crush, making now a distinction between “friend” and “girl”.

Other people have mentioned how particular this choice is: why would they have Mike next to El in the mirror? in the same scene where she’s presenting herself as Actually a Girl for the first time, wearing a pink dress, next to Mike, a Boy, who is even wearing blue! I don’t even think this analysis classifies as far-fetched for the same reason I mentioned earlier: the themes of the show are clear since the beginning, and plots like Nancy’s, Will’s, and later on El’s (and Max's) support that. Mike’s, however? it comes across as subtle (because really, it’s not), but it’s always been there, and the way the Wheelers are portrayed as a family confirms that too.

I don’t think he consciously makes the choice to pretend, more like it makes sense for him too, and the future events of the show just keep reinforcing this idea: she’s a girl with superpowers, who saves him and his friends many times, and people keep telling him he likes her! why wouldn’t he like her? And then there’s also survivor’s guilt but uhh… Let’s not go there, that’s another whole analysis.

It’s now time to talk about my least favorite topic: mlvn’s kisses. They have never been portrayed as genuinely romantic to me, even if I did think the snowball one was sweet when I first watched it. But that’s the thing: it’s cute, I guess, but it’s just there like a point you have to mark as done in a checklist. Entirely different to Lucas’ and Max’s scenes: Lucas hesitates when he asks Max to dance, and he’s clearly nervous, exhaling before asking, and their kiss is awkwardly endearing, genuine, and realistic for their age unlike anything in Mike and El’s relationship and… The beginning of s3 is proof of that. It’s almost like they’re kissing to prove a point: El is older now, and Mike is her boyfriend, they kiss like in the soap operas! (for Hopper’s and the audience’s dismay) and for Mike, well, El is his girlfriend, that’s what he’s supposed to do, right? (as he takes her hands off him).

Going back to the snowball, Mike plays the “date” role too perfectly. He does exactly what he should: he tells El she looks beautiful and asks her to dance, again, no hesitance. They dance and he kisses her… You guessed it, no hesitance. You could argue that it’s because it’s not their first thing, but the thing is… That one was a mess. It was out of nowhere, after talking about being family, as if Mike suddenly thought “yeah I think I should do this” and went for it. And… Did El even know what a kiss was?

Anyway, back to s3. They break up and all that, supernatural shit happens and oh! Mike tells a whole room of people that he loves El! how can that not be proof that he at least has a crush? well. Because Mike is not lying, just as he wasn’t lying when he called her pretty. He does love her, wants her to be safe because she’s his friend, and feels responsible for her safety (for many reasons). The thing is… Mike is aware of the Implications of the word.

He is being honest. He’s also confusing his feelings for romantic ones, just like he has since mid-s1. What’s the difference between the “ily” plot in s3 and in s4, then? wouldn’t that just be a repeat of the same?

No. This is a point of debate and I know we have different opinions on “When Did Mike Realize”, but for me, the contrast between this plot in s3 vs s4 is that s3 Mike is unaware, while in S4 he’s IS aware Throughout s3 (and before) he genuinely thinks his feelings are romantic. Until THIS happens

…and suddenly he’s confused, thinking it makes no sense. I choose to interpret it this way because it’s supported by the S3 script, which portrays Mike as confused and wondering what is wrong with him. This would’ve been a great moment to portray Mike as endearingly nervous/shy: they’ve been broken up and it seems like no one had said anything that hinted at a romantic relationship during that time. If Mike had romantic feelings for El, he should’ve been thrilled, but he doesn’t move, doesn’t close his eyes, doesn’t even smile. But it’s not disgust, it’s confusion. He’s starting to question things. To what degree? we do not know.

We can, however, infer from the events of S4 that he knows something.

The airport scene is as sad as it is funny, because this is probably the first instance in the whole show that we see Mike Wheeler acting nervous-shy in the way you would in front of a crush:

(Exhibit A)

(Exhibit B)

ok, Mike, Will didn’t imply otherwise? are you trying to convince him or yourself?

(Exhibit C)

(Exhibit D)

This whole conversation is so insane because everyone is so focused noticing Will’s crush that they miss Mike’s behavior? Mike, who during this conversation hesitates a lot, chooses his words carefully, exhales, you can see him swallow and just. He looks more nervous here than in the entirety of ALL his scenes with El on the show.

I could keep going on about s4, really, because there’s a lot to unpack there. But this is getting too long!

#byler #mike wheeler #will byers #anti mileven #gay mike wheeler #st analysis #stranger things #mike wheeler i know what you are #i spent way too long on this analysis please give it a like/rb if you read it or talk to me about your opinion #always happy to discuss about gay mike wheeler

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ratboydefenselawyer · 2 years

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This is my first and probably last post I will ever make. I’m here to consume the content, not necessarily create it.

I see all of you fighting the good fight for Billy and his story. And I wanted to add my thoughts into the ring.

As someone who works with children and adults from abusive backgrounds EVERY SINGLE DAY. I can tell you that Billy checks every single box for being in his survival state 24/7.

I have had extensive trainings about trauma, how to recognize it and the effects it can have on a person and how they act. Personally I have endured a lot of trauma myself and had to unlearn a lot of unhealthy behaviors and ways of thinking because of it.

With that being said: someone who is in a state of survival constantly is not capable of thinking rationally, the only goal is to…survive.

Billy Hargrove was an abused child. A CHILD. Not just physically, but mentally and emotionally as well. Does this forgive his actions? No. But it explains them. Gives us a deeper insight into the “why?”

Neil hit his son, he insulted him, called him a slur and then reminded him that Max, his younger stepsister’s well-being is in his hands. That’s a lot for a 17 year old to go through. Then he goes to the Byers residence where he’s insulted and lied to. His sister (who’s well-being is in his hands) is alone with 5 boys, one of them is his age? THEN to top it all off, Steve punches him? All that built up rage from what just happened with Neil comes spilling out. Oh and to make matters worse, he gets sedated and Max MIRRORS Neil’s abuse by making him repeat himself. Keep this in mind, while all this is going on Billy has absolutely no idea what is going on. He still doesn’t know what Max is doing with all of these boys in this house.

Moving forward- Billy gets possessed by the mind flayer, he still has no idea what is going on and loses control of his own body. He had to watch as his hands take the lives of many people to feed this creature from his worst nightmares. Then this group of children lock him in a sauna, he is FINALLY able to beg for help and sobs. Even then NOBODY tells him what’s going on, no one really makes an effort to help him. It’s only in the final episode of season 3 that El breaks through to him, she see’s his past, his mom leaving, the abuse. Even standing up to the mind flayer Billy has no idea what he’s up against, he’s still in the dark. All he knows is that it’s him or this child that showed him how to come back to himself. It’s him or Max, and as we already know Max’s well-being is in his hands. Nothing is more terrifying than Neil’s wrath. And in his dying breath he apologizes.

For my fellow Billy Stans- Please never let anyone bully you about what characters you can and can’t like. Your ability to see deeper into the characters and push past the hate is needed in this world. Not just in fiction, but in the real world. If you relate to Billy as I do, from past trauma, I am so sorry. I am so very sorry that you have to fight, explain and rationalize your love for him every time. For whatever reason you stand behind Billy Hargrove, it is valid. And unlike Billy’s story, I hope that yours doesn’t end in tragedy. My inbox is always open for those who need to talk.

Now, for the Antis- I want to say, good for you. You managed to take a broken and deeply complex character and reduce him to a heartless villain in your minds. Think what you want about him, it really doesn’t matter. What does matter is how you act to the people who do relate to Billy. The name calling, the hate, the wild assumptions about real people!! It’s so insane to me. I hope that turning into the bully to make a point was worth it. How other people relate to a character doesn’t affect you in any way at all. Somehow many of you have managed to put people down and make them afraid to express their love for a character. It’s not something to be proud of.

I am not willing to argue with anyone on this, this is just my views and my opinion. Dacre Montgomery stated that he worked hard to humanize Billy Hargrove. Seeing his character be dragged through the mud and continuously be turned into the irredeemable monster by the Duffer Brothers and the fans is just really sad.

Billy Hargrove means a lot to me. For a lot of different reasons. He deserved so much more than he was given. He deserved a chance to redeem himself and to tell his side of the story. He deserved a chance to apologize for everything he did in his survival state. He deserved the chance to finally be happy and be surrounded by people who actually cared for him, who wanted to help him.

Just keep going everyone. ❤️

#billy hargrove #billy #harringrove #billy hargrove deserved better #billy hargrove stan #billy hargrove gifs #billy hargrove is alive

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stevesaxetogrind · 11 months

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Truly those calling it “bad writing” that Robin and Vickie share similarities doesn’t make sense. She’s not been given enough time to be more than just a love interest, but we do have some info about her:

1. Molly Ringwald inspo, giving us shorthand about being kind of a quirky gal. Hat! Visually, she’s similar to Robin, but that’s not a bad thing because literally similar interests draw people together. She is also skirts vs Robin’s trousers. Femme/Soft Butch! You’re telling me Vickie would wear a tie? Lies.

2. Likes goofy jokes, namely Steve’s joke about Muppet Tammy. Which, Robin doesn’t laugh at Steve’s jokes that much- she dismisses them, but it means Vickie has a bit of a jocular sense of humour.

3. Vickie also likes Steve’s brand of movies, not Robin’s- which is pretty fucking funny. Again, this is not making Vickie similar to Robin, but to things shared with Robin’s Platonic Soulmate. Like, bro movies? Stupid lil jokes? I predict Steve and Vickie having a dad joke competition next season & torturing Robin with how corny they are. People like to talk about the similarities to Robin, but not the similarities to Steve! That’s kind of clever drawing Vickie closer to one of Robin’s favourite people, at least superficially.

4. Talks a lot when one on one, but Vickie wasn’t nervous/flustered in the band scene, so we can infer in more crowded spaces she acts differently/subdued - as like she was in the War Zone. This is unlike Robin who does actually ramble in group scenes, like freaking out over the thing in El’s leg, the rabies bit, or generally a lot of Season 4 where she looses her “cool girl” archetype from Season 3 in favour of chaos. Vickie seems more like she would quietly panic, as opposed to Eddie, Argyle, and Steve who all loudly go WHAT THE FUCK. Which is going to be interesting to see as the whole town is now thrown into an open gate downtown Hawkins probably releasing demogorgons every other hour like it’s Pacific Rim up in this bitch.

5. Meaningful look with Robin in the War Zone- not “oh hi band friend!” A scared/caught/dismayed look that she was there. So there is a connection, and she broke up with her boyfriend after that connection. Anything more is speculation, but the way she wasn’t looking at Robin when she gave the “he doesn’t like Fast Times” reason lets the audience draw points and maybe she felt trapped? Like it was just an excuse to pursue a different interest? Obviously because music is playing indicating a romantic relationship. We don’t have much to compare Robin with on this one, but around Keith she still had more confidence and bullshittery trying to convince him to hire Steve when Keith assumed they were a thing.

6. Vickie also doesn’t seem jealous. Robin is jealous. She was livid at Steve for being the object of Tammy’s affections, but Vickie hasn’t seemed to even look twice at Steve- even as Robin looked over at him while she and Vickie had her last scene.

For such a short amount of time in the season, I think that we have a good foundation for similarities and differences to Robin. Also, once again, it’s not a crime to avoid “opposites attract” tropes. Having similarities is good! Like, the amount of couples I know that are essentially the same archetype of queer person is not even close to zero. Especially when it comes to older queer couples who got together in the 80s/90s, they kind of morph into being one granola bar of a human being. Kind of similar with straight people when they genuinely like one another.

I hope they flesh Vickie out, but like, we’ve gotten a similar amount of screen time for Mr Clarke but no one is mad he is “one dimensional” when he is just, some exposition science guy. He’s a stock and standard teacher, has a girlfriend, and kind of goes along with explaining shit without questioning why a lot. But folks love Mr Clarke. Is it because Mr Clarke isn’t getting in the way of your ship?

I never thought I would see the day there were some true blue f/f ship wars, but bruh, Robin’s love life isn’t an A Plot so give the writers some slack. They’re human, not the devil. None of you were gleeks and it shows so fucking much. None of you lived through “angry lesbians on the internet don’t want me dating you”.

Personally I’m looking forward to Robin and Vickie getting together and maybe hopefully kicking monster butt together- or at least, Robin getting a nice little badass moment defending her gal.

#rockie #stranger things #robin buckley #vickie stranger things #robin x vickie #they’re cute!!!#this gets into rant territory I guess #currently grinding an axe #and yet #idk reblog me and let’s talk about it #I’m a multi shipper so I can kind of see all sides to why folks like and dislike shit #please don’t dismiss my points because YOU SHIP THIS YOU DEVIL

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ectonurites · 1 year

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Mike & Superman

So, I want to take a second to discuss the Superman comparison from the van scene in relation to Superman in the comics (specifically his origin, or at least the version of it that Mike as a character would likely be familiar with).

(Stranger Things S4E8)

The general situation I think we're all aware of is that Mike compares El to Superman and since El's his girlfriend (even though they weren't in the best standing the last time they'd talked before this, that's still more or less the situation) he makes an attempt to parallel himself to Lois Lane. Which makes enough sense at first glance—Lois is Clark's primary love interest, this is pretty common knowledge even among people who aren’t terribly invested in Superman lore. But from the way Mike trails off here, it's clear that he feels he doesn't measure up to Lois, he's just some 'random nerd' as he says.

Is that his self-doubt and insecurity talking? Absolutely. But I don’t think he’s wrong about one aspect of it—that he doesn’t fit the role of Lois Lane when we compare El to Superman. He does fit into the story in a different way though!

What I primarily want to talk about is rooted in his specific phrasing when he starts this comparison, "Superman landed on his doorstep." As evident from the bit of the conversation right before this, when he says that he's talking about when The Party found El in the woods, when she'd recently escaped and just 'needed someone'

(Stranger Things S1E1)

And much like El, Superman did once crash land in front of some kind strangers when he entered into a world/society unlike the one he came from and definitely just 'needed someone'...

But Superman landed in front of Ma & Pa Kent, not Lois Lane.

Clark's origin has had many many retellings over the years, but from literally the late 30's this has been a consistent element of the story in basically every iteration—be it comics, movies, cartoons. Considering the time period Stranger Things takes place in, when talking about the comics (and like, we know our characters are comic nerds) I'd consider the Silver Age/Earth-One retelling to be the most relevant (because while Crisis on Infinite Earths did just happen in 1985, the Post-Crisis Superman lore updates weren't getting established until later in 1986 after S4 takes place):

(Superman Vol. 1 #146)

And I mean... 'It would be suspicious to just suddenly have this child we found, so we'll try to have them be discovered somewhere else as if we hadn't been the ones to find them' sure sounds familiar

(Stranger Things S1E2)

But anyways, my point here is that the people who are there for Superman when he’s new to Earth—the people that take care of him and give him a new name—they welcome him into their family:

(Superman Vol. 1 #146)

(Stranger Things S1E2)

(Stranger Things S1E8)

...they're not his love interests. Like, Clark and Lois meet at the Daily Planet when they’re both adults:

(Superman Vol. 1 #146)

They don't meet until after Clark has already spent years growing up on Earth, not when it's all entirely new to him! Lois isn’t his first girlfriend/teenage love interest, Lois is a person he falls for once he is his own fully realized adult person.

Mike doesn’t fit the role of El's Lois not because he's not good enough or any of the reasons his self-doubt might try to make him believe—he isn't El's Lois because that's just the wrong comparison for their situation altogether. When considering El to be Superman, with the way Mike starts this comparison he's (whether on purpose or not) paralleling himself far more closely to Superman's parents—his family—than Superman's love interest.

#stranger things #stranger things analysis #anti mileven #mike wheeler #idk if anyone has pointed this out before but i have not come across it 🤷‍♂️#tho i have seen many many people talk abt the ways mike & el get. family-coded a lot. and this is just another thing to add to tht pile

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shieldofiron · 1 year

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Shovel Talk (Bury Me)

So many people give Billy the shovel talk, it starts to become kind of a game.

Robin is first, deadly serious but very inventive when it comes to her imagined punishments. Henderson’s is by far the most inventive, spanning centuries of his life with pain and suffering that he’s not entirely sure the little guy could mete out. Nancy’s is to the point, simple. Just a reminder that she has guns, like she hasn’t shot at him already. But when he reminds her with a laugh she goes a little pale and apologizes. Jonathan’s is kind of half assed, and he’s the only one who seems to think Harrington isn’t some porcelain doll ready to shatter at any moment. Hoppers is sort of garbled, it’s clear that he doesn’t have a great footing with these things, with emotions and stuff.

Erica and Lucas deliver theirs at the same time, and it’s possibly the only one he’s really scared of, because that little chick is a firecracker. And as Lucas said, he hasn’t missed Billy once, unlike Nancy. Gotta respect that. Max’s is quick, a barely there mention that he better not hurt Steve, but it hurts worse than the others.

And he gets it. They’ve only been together a few weeks, but soon Steve is gonna wake up and realize that if he likes guys he could like better ones. Healthier ones, who are nicer. Calmer. Steve needs someone like Steve, someone warm and loving, who knows how to treat him right. Billy just happened to be around when Steve figured it all out. Billy just happened to be lucky enough to look like he looks.

It’s the only way this thing between them makes any goddamn sense.

The thing is, he also doesn’t see a future where he can really affect Steve like people think. Sure, Steve is affectionate and stuff. He’s happy when Billy does his best, when Billy opens doors for him and calls him to hear about his day. But surely Steve is just like that with everyone he’s dating.

So Billy just shrugs. Tries to let it roll off his back and remember that he knows what this is. That he knows what he is to Steve. Just a very good looking first experiment with guys. All he can do is keep things light. Keep things relaxed and casual. Open Steve’s doors and enjoy the feeling of being held by him, without expecting more.

He doesn’t push his feelings on Steve. He doesn’t say that when he sees how far people will go for Steve it makes him want to grab a shovel and dig and dig until he knocks on the ceiling of the upside down, until his arms feel like rubber.

He doesn’t get too mushy with Steve, or call when he’s had three shovel talks in a day and it hurts so much. When he wishes his boyfriend could just be there for him.

Because he knows what he is.

“Not hurting Steve” is the slowest death ever, like being buried alive. And then Steve will smile, and reach across the seat and take Billy’s hand… and Billy always decides he can die for one more day if it means being close to Steve.

El takes Billy’s hand when she sees him, and he almost expects another shovel talk. But instead she squeezes his hand.

“He’s hurting you,” she says softly.

“N-no,” Billy can feel his chin tremble.

“Yes, he is.”

She closes her eyes and the emotions wash over Billy like a hurricane. The isolation he’s still feeling. The way he’s terrified to spend time with Steve, the way he’s terrified to be himself.

He pulls his hand away, “Too much, Jane. Too much.”

She nods, “Okay. I’ll stop.”

And then they set down and watch Saturday morning cartoons, and she pretends not to notice that he’s crying.

So imagine his surprise when later that day Steve throws open the door to his car while he’s idling at the arcade waiting for Max. Steve is still in his family video vest, looking a little out of breath.

“Tell me what I did wrong,” Steve gasps.

“Uh, hello to you too,” Billy presses his sunglasses up his nose.

“What did I do wrong?”

“Nothing? What are you talking about?”

“I got a call from El,” Steve frowns, his bangs flopping down his brow, “Like five minutes ago telling me I could find you here to fix this.”

Billy groans, “Sorry. You didn’t do anything. She’s just worrying-“

“Worrying about what?”

“Nothing,” Billy shrugs, “Its fine.”

“What’s fine?”

“Everything.”

“Listen, man,” Steve sucks in a breath. “When a teenage telepath calls telling you to fix stuff with your boyfriend, you listen. What’s wrong?”

Billy snatches his sunglasses off and rubs his eyes, “Look she’s just… I’ve… fuck.”

“Baby,” Steve glances around furtively and must decide that it’s worth it to take Billy’s hand.

“I’ve just… your friends really care about you,” He spits out at last.

“What?”

“And maybe they’re right. Maybe we’re just dragging this out, and we should just… cut our losses,” Billy shakes his head. Because that’s exactly what he doesn’t want. But he would do it, for Steve. He would do just about anything. He’s the only person who can hurt Billy in quite this way. Steve hurts him, that’s how much Billy is in love with him.

“Stop, wait. I don’t understand.”

“They don’t want me to hurt you. Which is just… like the funniest fucking thing,” Billy looks at Steve square in his eyes, even though it fucking hurts, “They don’t know how impossible that is. Like… you don’t even care enough about me to be hurt.”

Steve looks struck, “What the fuck? What?”

Billy shrugs, snorting a little to try to calm the prickling in his eyes, and the tightening in his throat.

“Why would you say that to me? Say that I don’t care… that’s not true, Billy.”

“It’s fine,” Billy shakes his head no, and hates himself. “I know what this is. They just don’t get it.”

“And what is this?”

“An experiment,” Billy shrugs, staring hard at the arcade sign and cursing Max for being late again.

“I’m an experiment to you?”

Billy feels the anger trigger hot in his chest, “No. I’m the experiment. And when you’re done with me, and you find someone who is actually worth all this trouble from your friends, it’ll be over. You know. Someone you could love back.”

Steve is quiet, and when Billy looks over, his eyes are wide.

At just that moment, when all Steve has to do is pull the trigger and leave Billy like he’s supposed to, Max raps on the window.

Steve squeezes Billy’s hand, not moving. “Meet me when I get done with work at nine? Right here, meet me right here.”

“Okay,” Billy says, though he’s not sure why Steve can’t just do it right now.

“Okay,” Steve’s brow furrows, “I’ll be waiting for you.”

Like Billy wouldn’t be counting the minutes.

And then Harrington let’s go, and flashes Billy a strange look before swapping with Max.

“What’s wrong with you?” She frowns at him.

“Oh, you know,” Billy sniffs, “Same old everything.”

“What did Steve want?”

Billy sniffs again, “I’m trying to get him to break up with me.”

“Why the hell would you want to do that?” Max curls her lip up at him.

“I don’t,” Bill reverses and peels out of the lot.

Max just stares at him, which he pretends not to notice as he starts the well worn route back to Susan’s trailer.

“Did he do something?” Max startles him with the vehemence in her voice.

“Nothing but be too good for me, right? I mean that’s what you’ve been saying,” Billy grips the wheel.

“What I’ve been saying?”

And Billy’s just so tired. He’s so tired, and he wants to go to the woods and dig until all he can think about is sweat and dirt. And then he wants to lay down and sleep for a hundred years.

But instead he drowns out whatever Max says next with the music, and when they get home, he ignores Susan’s prodding about lunch and seals himself in his room.

He tries to be late to see Steve, but, embarrassingly, he ends up being early, waiting outside the arcade and video store like some kind of creep.

Finally, Steve exits, waving goodbye to Robin who shoots a warning look over to Billy in Susan’s idling sedan.

“I’ll be out of your hair soon, Buckley.” He whispers, just as Steve gets in next to him.

“Hey.”

“Hi,” Billy whispers.

“So… you love me.”

It’s like a punch to the gut. Billy’s stomach plummets through the mantle of the earth and down to the lava below.

“Fuck you,” He gasps.

“Am I wrong? You said you thought I would leave you for someone I could love back,” Steve doesn’t seem disturbed by Billy’s outburst in the slightest.

“This is by far the worst fucking way to break up with someone-“

“Well good, because I’m not breaking up with you.”

This knocks his stomach around more, though his heart, stupid thing that it was, started rising with dumb hope.

“Robin told me that you guys had a… conversation,” Steve nods, “And apparently she head from Nancy that… well. I had to do some detective work. But the point is, I’m guessing they kinda freaked you out?”

Billy frowned.

“And… I mean I can’t be totally mad at them, Billy. Because I told Robin how in love with you I was before we even dated,” Steve bit his lower lip, “I thought it would be too early to say. But since you said it first… it doesn’t feel so bad.”

“I didn’t,” Billy protests.

“You kinda did, though,” Steve takes Billy’s hand, “You love me.”

Billy tries to take a deep breath through his seized lungs. Like he had a choice. Like he hasn’t been lost for the guy from the moment he saw him across the parking lot, across a crowded party, across a court. It’s a dream now that they’re here, next to each other.

“I’m sorry that they scared you,” Steve brushes the scars on Billy’s palm, like he’s reading the lines for a moment, and then knits their fingers together. “They just know how hurt I can get when I loved someone… who didn’t love me back. No one can really hurt me, not like you can.”

Billy swallows.

“But…” Steve has the softest eyes in the universe, dark and depthless as the sea at night, “You wouldn’t. Right?”

It’s kind of a shovel talk. Billy doesn’t care. Only Steve can bury him this deep.

“No,” Billy gasps, “I wouldn’t. I mean I would try… never to do that.”

Steve leans in, face pink in the light of the arcade sign, “Will you say it? For me?”

“I love you,” Billy gasps.

“I love you too,” Steve smiles, “I love you so much, Billy.”

That night in bed, his spine still tingling, Steve throws him for a loop again.

“Will’s shovel talk was the scariest,” Steve sighs, “Don’t you agree?I mean El is scary and so is Max, don’t get me wrong-“

“Will?”

“Yeah, Will,” Steve shivers, “He told me he’s been to the upside down so he’s not afraid of prison.”

Billy shakes his head a little, “Will didn’t give me one.”

“Oh. What about Mike? His was pretty good. Not that scary but I thought it was really cute,” Steve leans up on his elbows.

“Wheeler?”

“Yeah. He said there’s only so many cool guys in town and I was not one of them,” Steve smirked, “I think he has a little crush on you.”

“First of all, ew,” Billy wrinkled his nose, “Mike didn’t give me one either.”

In the end they make a game of it. They each had a few different, but in the end it evened out.

Jonathan was way less lax when he spoke to Steve, it turned out. Max had threatened to go nuclear.

Billy had people who cared for him. That part wasn't a game, but it was very nice. And he had Steve, so he didn't need to bury himself, after all.

Also on AO3.

#harringrove #harringrove fic #shovel talk #harringrove fanfic #harringrove drabbles #steve x billy #billy x steve

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truessences · 2 months

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Was on Reddit in the Stranger Things subreddit and someone asked who the most intelligent member of the party is. Here was my answer.

I think Mike is the smartest of the kids, Dustin has an overall knowledge base of nerdy stuff but I feel like Mike, also has that but tends to think quick on his feet, is creative, brave, observant(sometimes) and strategic. A lot of big plans have happened because of him spearheading them.

S1- everything he did for El and being able to explain to everyone about the upside down after learning about parallel worlds from his teacher

S2- causing a diversion for El and Hopper to get in and close the gate. True sight and that Will was a spy.

S3- being the only one really who was trying to keep El from over doing it and also immediately coming to El’s aid in the sauna sequence. Plus that was also his plan.

S4- figuring out the pen and thinking to go see Suzie.

I also might be biased as he’s my fave and I think people are way too hard on him but I think my examples help lol.

I’ve always felt like they all had their specialties anyway or what I think they’d be good in and a lot of it overlaps obviously.

AND THEN, I talked about how he is also extremely self-sacrificing and some extra stuff because as always, I feel like people are way too hard on him.

Exactly! He’s also so self sacrificing! People say he hasn’t been the same since S1 and I agree in a sense but not about his character but that’s really on the writers.

S1- telling Brenner that he’d have to kill him (us) to get El. Willing to throw himself off the cliff for Dustin, trying to stand up to the bullies for Will.

S2- running to the soldiers to tell them it’s a trap when he could have easily died. The plan to go into the tunnels which led to him getting attacked lol.

S3- trying to fight Mind Flayed possessed Billy TWICE. Because Billy on his own is scary but a possessed one?? Come on now lol. People really say they hate S3 Mike and I will never understand why lol. My boy was so brave. The other stuff is because of Hopper and I’ll forever die on that hill.

S4- he didn’t get as much to do in terms of forward action but immediately running out to El in the desert when there’s no way he could have known that it was safe for him to do so.

He very much clearly is the leader and the heart of the group. I feel like people say otherwise just because they don’t like him and outside of “oh he’s just a boring character” I don’t personally think he’s done anything to be unlikable, I feel like there are reasons for a lot of his moody (outside of teenager) behavior. He doesn’t get any slack from the fandom and at times his own friends (Max and Will at times and even Lucas). He’s the only one who didn’t get the chance to really talk about his feelings UNTIL S4.

And then someone responded that he was being a jackass in S3, which is why a lot of fans seemed to dislike him and I'm like no, sorry that doesn't make sense to me. Hopper is literally an adult and threatened Mike at least 3 times in their conversation. Like you don't *have* to like anyone but I feel like the reasons that are given for Mike specifically don't make sense to me. As I said in the post, everyone has their moments of being assholes but Mike is the ONLY one who doesn't get a pass. I feel like Lucas was treated pretty badly in S1 but that's gone down thank goodness but Mike still gets shit and to me it's unfounded.

Like don't piss me off lol

#stranger things #mike wheeler #mike wheeler defense squad #stranger things 4 #stranger things season 5 #stranger things 5 #mileven

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kennahjune · 5 months

Text

Reread The Outsiders

Greaser!Eddie, Will, El, Dustin, and Jonathan and Soc!Steve, Mike, Max, Lucas and Nancy.

Steve and Jonathan having their fight at the beginning just like in the show and it knocks some sense into Steve as per usual.

Steve actually going out of his way to apologize to Jonathan on his own later that same night and having the door be answered by little Will. Will getting Jonathan and Jonathan and Steve stepping out on the porch to talk in private where Steve apologizes and actually admits that he fucked up.

But then Jonathan doesn’t fully forgive him (cause Steve said some pretty nasty things) and says something along the lines of “let everyone know just how sorry you are and maybe we’ll talk.” idk— but Steve then goes out of his way to apologize to both Nancy and Jonathan in the middle of the high school hallway and admits in front of everyone how much of a douche he was and how he wants to be better.

Eddie seeing this all happen and not knowing what the fuck is going on.

Rich Boy Harrington actually saying sorry? Admitting defeat? He calls bullshit. So he goes out of his way to watch Steve everyday after that— convinced it’s all an elaborate prank on poor Byers. But no. Steve is genuinely changing for the better.

And Eddie doesn’t believe that until Will and Dustin— some of Eddie’s favorite middle school sheep— are caught in the middle of a brawl with asshole socs Troy and James and the first people to help them are Steve, Mike and Lucas.

Mike and Lucas are just walking around. It’s like 10pm and really neither of them should be out right now but Ted was getting pushy and Mike needed some space. Space that included Lucas.

Will and Dustin are stumbling down the street, Will holding Dustin up after he got the worst of the hits. Will himself is sporting a nice black eye but he’s standing on his own— unlike Dustin.

Mike and Lucas are on them in a minute, both very worried and concerned for their wellbeing and health. Just as Mike is saying “fuck whatever Ted says you’re both coming home with me” Steve pulls up in the Beemer and they all get in.

When Steve asks if they have anyone they can call for Dustin (Steve already called Joyce and Jonathan) he insists on Eddie because his mom is asleep and doesn’t need to be woken up. She works an early shift in the morning.

Steve calls Eddie, seeing no problem with it as long as the kid is safe and happy and taken care of.

Eddie cannot believe that Dustin and Will got into a fight and honestly thinks it was Steve for a moment until Steve calms him down. Eddie and Steve chat, exchange numbers, and in no time Dustin is loaded in the van with Eddie and they’re off to the trailer park.

Joyce and Jonathan stop by as well, pick up Will and chat with Steve about what had happened. This is when Mike, Dustin, Will and Lucas form The Party.

They all exchange numbers yada yada.

The next day at school Jonathan and Nancy are both shocked to hear that Steve got into a fight with Mason Walsh and Rory Dante. Go figure; Steve had confronted them on how Troy and James had treated Dustin and Will the night before and they both were going on about how they deserved it. Throwing slurs left and right.

And well. Steve didn’t take that too kindly.

Needless to say, Steve’s parents are called and this is the moment that Jonathan and Nancy find out just who Richard Harrington is and why Steve used to be the way he was.

It’s also the moment that Hopper finally steps in and arrests Richard for child abuse and assault and all the good shit. But then his mom disowned him and Steve is suddenly on the streets. So Hopper also takes him in.

Which is where Steve meets El.

And idk where I was going with this but 60s Stranger Things AU with Greaser!Eddie x Soc!Steve :)

(With a side of Byler, Lumax (or Henclair and Elmax idk)

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prismuffin · 1 year

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What would happen if Dick Grayson, Wally West, Tim Drake, Kon-el(Conner) Kent, and anyone you want to add (separately) playing spin the bottle and it landing on their guy crush (Reader leans towards being a Top/Dominant)?

HAHAHSHASHASJ YALL ARE KILLING ME WITH THESE GUY CRUSH ASKS!! Also I got your other message anon so 7 minutes in heaven it is! Anyways, I think that-

Dick would immediately smile when the bottle landed on you, the cheers of his friends and other random people at this party didn't matter anymore. You both waisted no time clambering into the cramped closet, the darkness surrounding the both of you as the door closed. Suddenly the reality of the situation would hit him. He's in a dark closet with his guy crush. He could scream, and he probably would've if you didn't start talking. "We don't have to, but would you mind if I...?" You trailed off before realizing he couldn't see you, so instead you grabbed his face so that he'd get the message. Heart beating, he nodded with an affirming hum. Letting you take the lead, he closed his eyes and waited for you to lean in, a slight gasp escaping his mouth as your lips hit his. It felt unreal but he was so here for it. He didn't mind being almost manhandled in the confined space either, and when your seven minutes was up he was so bummed but there were definitely signaling looks exchanged throughout the rest of the night.

Wally would be similar to Dick in the sense of feeling super excited when the bottle landed on you. He’d be more flustered about it but he’s still got a huge smile on his face as you lead him into the closet. Even though you’re his guy crush he has no clue if you like him back or not so he’s not really expecting to do much because he can’t bring himself to try in fear of rejection. So he’s super shocked when you take initiative, asking for consent before even trying anything with him. He doesn’t wanna come across as eager to kiss you but you can tell he’s excited, even without looking. Cherishes those seven minutes. He sees why the game is named seven minutes in heaven after this experience honestly. Is flustered and can’t stop smiling for the rest of the night. Also can’t look you in the eye without giggling like a mad man.

Tim would be the most nervous out of everyone. Was probably dragged to the party by his brothers and was not expecting to be in this situation. Still, he played the game anyways, mostly because you were too and part of him hoped the world would be kinda enough to pair you both up and it was! His face would explode in red as the whistles and cheers echoed from the party attendees. When you both got in the closet you could tell he was a nervous wreck. "Sorry if this is making you uncomfortable." You apologized and his heart soared, you were so respectful it's part of the reason he likes you so much. He told you that it was fine and that he was just a bit nervous. When you asked if he wanted to do anything he hesitantly said he wouldn't mind. You took the lead since you could tell he was nervous. He appreciated that you took things a bit slow with him and at the end of the seven minutes he was a bit happier that he came to the party after all.

Conner wasn't expecting to see you at this party, let alone be paired up with you for seven minutes in heaven. he tried to keep calm but the reality of the situation really only hit once the door to the closet was closed. He was silent for a while, not being sure of what to do exactly, he could act on his crush and potentially ruin this friendship or he could not act on it and keep what he's already got. Though it seems you made that decision for him. "You're not- this isn't making you uncomfortable is it?" You said and his eyes snapped to you. Unlike the others, his powers could allow him to see you clearly, your eyes didn't meet his as they searched the darkness. He told you he was just fine and actually explained his internal dilemma to you. You decided to take the lead and reach out until you found his face. Despite his nerves he let you lean in and take control of the situation. He had a small smile on his face as he sat next to you for the rest of the night. He'd get kind of mad if you got picked again.

———

Directory

#dc universe x male reader #dc x male reader #dick grayson x male reader #wally west x male reader #tim drake x male reader #conner kent x male reader #x male reader #male reader #prismuffin #young justice x male reader #young justice x reader #young justice imagine #dc universe #dc fanfiction #dc universe x reader #dc x reader #prisask

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carigm · 1 year

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Today Millie had a fan panel in which she answered that her ideal ending would be Mike and El getting married and Will being happy and confessing to Mike (lol) and ofc the Stranger Things fandom kicked up the old Byler vs Mlvn war once again, regardless of the fact she doesn’t write the show. But I want to break down some points here about things I’ve been noticing today, but also for a while and that I think need to be discussed. Keep reading if you want.

I’ve seen a lot of hostility towards Byler and Bylers on Twitter lately, saying we’re delusional and don’t know what we’re talking about. This always seems to be the go to argument even tho it’s all in the narrative. Today it got really bad after Millie’s comments and even people that were merely disagreeing with her opinions got called everything from delusional to misogynistic.

IF the Duffers suddenly decided to ignore everything they’ve carefully crafted and put into their narrative that doesn’t make anyone delusional, it just makes them terrible writers. Who would be doing a great disservice to all three characters involved in the love triangle.

There’s been an insurgence (on Twitter) of so called “Will stans” who seem to be completely fine with the idea of mlvn being endgame because “Will can just get another boyfriend” Not only is this insulting to what the writers have already established for Will’s character but it’s also a defense and endorsement of the worst kind of lazy/bad writing that could graze our screens.

The Duffers CHOSE to tie Will’s character arc to Mike’s and El’s.

How do you expect them to undo that and create a well fleshed out character that’s deserving of Will, in 8 episodes that we know are not just gonna be dedicated to Will’s supposed love interest, because there’s a shit ton of stuff to resolve?

If this was the route the Duffers were going for, they could’ve clearly given Will a love interest last season (like with Robin) or two seasons ago (like with Dustin) And yet somehow, people think it would be totally okay for Will to get the most meaningless romance of all time as the writers ignore the same story they’ve created.

Another point I’ve been seeing a lot from these people is “Mike won’t come out. Let it go. He’s just a very unlikable character” What does that say about the quality of the writing and content you’re willing to consume then? You’re okay with characters being poorly written? And please someone explain to me how Mike’s actions, especially in S4, make any sense unless he likes Will.

The more people try to simplify this story the more plot holes and inconsistencies it creates.

The funny thing is that a lot of these “Will stans” used to be Bylers themselves but are so deathly afraid it won’t be endgame that they’ve started to use the same rhetoric mlvns use every day to justify what would be atrocious writing.

And this next thing might be controversial but I think it needs to be said.

So many people on Twitter have hit those who disagree with Millie’s opinion today with “y’all are misinterpreting Millie’s words” and let me tell you, no one has. She’s been saying the same stuff for forever and quite frankly she’s never had a coherent thought about Will. Which is fine, at the end of the day that’s not the character she plays. However, I haven’t forgotten how last year (at another panel) she was asked about Byler and said it was just a reflection of Finn and Noah’s friendship and that was what people were seeing…

Whatever the fuck that means, I guess.

Again, I’m not taking her answer today too seriously cause truth be told she’s been saying some version of this since she was around twelve, and has even at times said she was joking about it. If a wedding were actually happening she wouldn’t be able to say it cause I’d literally be a spoiler, even if she doesn’t have the scripts yet or doesn’t know I’m sure there’s things that would be off limits for any actor to say at this point.

But this defense squad that formed today begging for us to not misconstrue her words because “she really cares about Will’s character” is laughable.

Her answers regarding the topic of the love triangle have been anything but nuanced. If she doesn’t want to get into it or address it, that’s fine. It’s her choice.

But of course, mlvn stans are gonna take her answers seriously, as well as those who are now “Will stans” who basically ship mlvn too.

And to me there’s a fundamental flaw regarding the ship wars in this fandom, which these people don’t seem to grasp. At this point, it isn’t so much about “which ship is better” but “which outcome isn’t violently homophobic”

That’s it.

I don’t care how much you ship mlvn, this is the undisputed truth here.

But when your lead actors act like it’s not a big deal, it’s no surprise the fandom doesn’t give a shit.

I can only hope the Duffers were smart enough to see reason and were able to write the only outcome that won’t set television back around 10 years or so.

And hopefully one day, when S5 is out, we can get a more in depth and honest conversation with the actors about all of this.

As for me, I’m gonna lay low and not give much of a fuck until we start getting those Reddit leaks, which were very much accurate for last season. I’ll take a peak at those, and depending on what they look like, I’ll stay around or dip completely.

If you read all of this, thank you.

#byler #byler theory #byler is real

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mirrorballhughes · 6 months

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i miss you im sorry: luke hughes x adelaide hunter

in between by gracie abrams

but make it about luke and el!! this is just gonna be short little excerpts about the childhood friends x lovers :) ( who then become strangers… back to friends then back to lovers.) but we are not discussing that rn :p

these excerpts correspond with the lyrics in the song obviously which is probably obvious but yolo. i hope you guys enjoy :)

“I just can't come between 'em,

they got their own thing.

luke and adelaide’s relationship is very special. the pair are the only people who understand each other. they have unmatched chemistry, their mothers have always sensed the duo would end up together. no one could ever get in the couples way. (someone/things do/did..)

I wish he'd stop pretendin', he won't let his phone ring,

For more than a couple seconds, oh, I think maybe two.

as sooon as the pair got phones luke and adelaide were always texting and face-timing. jack would make jokes about how quickly his younger brother would answer, not even letting his phone get to a second ring. that became lukes thing, always answering el as fast as he could because who knows what could be happening to the blonde girl. (one day el stops calling, and even if she would call he wouldn’t let it get to a second ring.)

Two hearts just fallin' in and out of

love for somethin' new.

adelaide knew she liked luke in 5th grade. it took luke til 6th grade to realize he liked el, only because quinn was picking on him for it and told him how noticeable it was from the 4th grade. the pair knew it was love the summer before junior year. they couldn’t have fallen out of love right? (to them it seemed like it, to everyone else they knew love was still floating around.) they did fall out of with plenty others though, they just wanted something new, someone to get their minds off each other.

I wish that you could see 'em,

their faces lighten up.

whenever adelaide sees luke, her eyes sparkle and everything just stops. no one else gets ade’s eyes that sparkly. whenever luke sees el, nothing else feels right. he feels comfort and home when he looks at her. their faces both lighten up, seeking that warm comfort homely feeling they get from each other. but the two dont notice that at all, even with everyone saying something they just dont realize it.

Their past is cold and empty, they know it’s been enough.

Of waitin' on somebody, someone who doesn’t care.

the pair both have/had many fair shares of unhealthy relationships and heartbreak. they both made each other realize how those people were never good for them. luke and el both needed to understand their worth and that they they are deserving of someone better. which was each other, they were made for each other and everyone else knew that except them.

But he knows her name, she

knows he’ll always be there.

this really isn’t abour luke knowing adelaide’s name. he truly knows her. luke always took his time to understand adelaide. el had felt unloveable, but luke had changed that. the youngest hughes brother always ALWAYS listened to el. he never made up assumptions or showed that he didnt care about her unlike her past relationships. luke was the only person ade cared about. he truly cared about her. luke understood her well being, and didnt use her for her body, unlike past people.

He laughs at her eyes, at her smile,

at the glasses on her face.

luke just finds the whole girl beautiful. he cant help but laugh when he notices the little things el does. she only does them because of him. the blonde used to wear glasses when she was younger, luke would pick on her in a joking manner. he never ever wanted to make el upset ever. (he ends up doing so. but she ends up hurting him as well. a win win?)

She loves how he talks late at night,

when there's no one else to say

el is insecure and luke offers her the assurance and words of affirmation she needs to be at peace with herself. el doesn’t feel like she has anyone to depend on, to support her in times of need. but realizing it now, she does. luke is her safe haven.

How she's beautiful and funny and

smart like nothin' he's ever seen

luke has never met a girl like adelaide. she’s always just so bubbly and doesnt need to pretend to be something she’s not. the curly haired boy always thought she was the most beautiful girl ever. her personality was perfect, and she was way beyond smart even if she never showed it to anyone else.

He's good to her and she wants

it more than everything in- between

adelaide didnt want no one else, she only wanted luke hughes. ade just wanted everything in- between, not wanting to make those same decisions, like her past unhealthy relationships that have ended in heartbreak and trauma. el has a desire for someone who is good to her. it took some time but she finally accepted of a purer love, rather than her previous toxic relationship cycles. and she realized luke is really good to her and hes the only thing keeping her a float.

She toes the line between 'em,

he says he’s new at this

ade follows the basics of a relationship, being as though she was new at this not using to having a soft relationship. luke was very understanding about this and always took his time with the girl. both of them were very understanding about each other.

There's holy ground beneath them,

and sparks fly when they kiss

two taylor songs!!!

Holy Ground, from luke’s pov, he sees it about a whirl wind relationship that is full of memories. which he adores. he loves how much the pair works. the two still care about one another. Sparks Fly, from adelaide’s pov, is about the first stages of having a crush on luke. also the first time the two kissed, they both felt these very strong sparks. which always come out when they kiss. they seem to have never gone away. the two songs could also reflect on how the couple treated each other.

He hates it when she's crying,

he hates when she's away

luke hates hearing the girl cry. he remembers one time at the lake house, adelaide cried on her birthday because her parents werent gonna be there. the blonde cried so much that day, luke did everything to keep her happy. he never wanted to be the reason adelaide hunter was crying. (he had made her cry. one few many times…) he also hates being away from the girl. they would always spend hours in each others dorms, working on homework or just watching movies. mainly enjoying each other’s company. (it was hard to leave UMich because he just wanted el there with him everywhere.) luke wouldn’t admit he was clingy towards el, but his friends would constantly remind him how he was, also the boy knew he was.

Even at their worst, they

know they'll still be okay

el and luke never fought. the couple always communicated how they felt or if they were going through anything. (one day that just stops and they both start fights just because of stress.) even if they would fight, the pair would know they would be okay. nothing could ever get in the way. el got frustrated with luke at points yes, vice versa but they both loved each other so much to let any fights through. (they end up having a big fight and break up…)

if you guys wanna see any of these scenarios lmk! even the (crossed out ones!!) i want to write ade and luke more soo whatever you guys wanna see pls just let me know!! i hope you guys are enjoying this :)

#luke hughes #new jersey devils #luke hughes imagine #adelaide hunter #i miss you im sorry fanfic #luke hughes x oc #luke hughes oneshot #luke hughes blurb #luke hughes fanfic #luke x adelaide #luke hughes fic #luke hughes x reader #nj devils #umich hockey #ethan edwards #jack hughes #quinn hughes #joss writes

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dinitride-art · 1 year

Text

Something that I noticed- while looking at Mike’s scenes in season four that have significant emotional confrontation- is how a few specific lines of dialogue interacts with a specific shot. In two separate places.

“I mean, you’ve seen it. I’ve been bullied my entire life. I mean, I know what it’s like.”

“No. You don’t.”

“Okay. What don’t I understand?”

“I am different. I do not belong.”

“You mean, in Lenora?”

“Anywhere.”

“It’s just... she’s so different from other people and... when you’re... when you’re different sometimes... you feel like. A mistake.”

“But you make her feel like she’s not a mistake at all- like she’s better for being different. And that’s what what gives her the courage to fight on.”

Both Will and El feel alienated from everyone around them. And neither of them believe that Mike is like them.

But they can’t see him. He’s blurred out in the background. This shot is unlike any of the other shots in these scenes. They’re OTS shots, but the point of them is to see the character who’s perspective we’re in. And to show us that this character, isn’t seeing the person beside them.

El can’t see that Mike feels the same way that she does- different. And that’s when their scene falls to pieces. That’s why Mike can’t tell her he loves her- why he can’t even write it. Because he is different.

But El can’t see it.

Will can’t see that Mike feels the same as he does either. He loves Mike. And Mike makes him feel like he’s better for it. But he can’t see Mike when he says that he feels like a mistake. He doesn’t see him when he says that he’s different.

Will and El can’t see that Mike is different. That he’s been bullied his entire life for it. That he feels like a mistake too.

“She was born special. And maybe I was one of the first people to realize that... and one days she’s gonna realize that I’m just some random nerd that got lucky that Superman landed on his doorstep. I mean, at least Lois Lane is an ace reporter for the Daily Planet right, but...”

A realization is not a good thing. Mike realized that El was always special, and that he’s not. And if he’s actually talking about Will here- it’s the same thing. He feels lesser than someone he cares about. And he thinks that person is going to realize that he’s not good enough. Because Mike feels inferior. Which really, isn’t all that different from feeling like a mistake.

At least Lois Lane is- At least Lois Lane has something that makes her something. Mike’s saying that he has nothing. Nothing that makes him worth something. He’s not an ace reporter. Actually, that’s Nancy.

Mike is different. He does not belong. He feels like a mistake.

And Will and El don’t see him.

#byler #mike wheeler #eleven hopper #will byers #van scene #i mean its two for two #the ots blurred mike shot #and talking about being different and looking away during it #and they both turn to him after with a powerful line

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destinygoldenstar · 10 months

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Is Screen Time An Issue For A Character?

That’s a tough one.

I see quite a few arguments about some shows I’ve watched that ‘oh, this character is bad because they have too much screen time’. Or ‘I wish this character had more screen time to be interesting.’

Basically, too much screen time is now a valid critique to describe why a character is bad or doesn’t work for you. And to that I say…

Uh… no?

I’ll give some examples where I see this critique, but for now I want to state a case of examples where I expected to see this critique online, but didn’t, and I wondered why.

SPOILERS BELOW FOR THE SPIDERVERSE SEQUEL:

The main character of the Spiderverse movies is Miles Morales. Clear as day if you see ANY promotional concept art. The movies nail that home and give you a solid POV character among the Multiverse chaos.

The sequel begins with an over twenty minute backstory sequence involving Gwen Stacy, a side character in the first movie.

(Fun fact: When me and my dad went to see it in theaters together, he said that backstory was over twenty minutes long and that he thought they could've trimmed it down. Animated-phobia gives you weird opinions. He didn't watch Arcane with me and thought nothing of it because 'it was an animated show'. Not kidding.) (Both of my parents are like this, sadly.)

Now, in the context of the movie, it makes sense to include this to understand the full POV of her character going forward. As she is pretty vital to the story.

I tried imagining a version of the movie where we DIDN'T get this intro, went straight to Miles, and we just had to put the pieces together involving Gwen and her actions. And I don't think the movie would've worked nearly as well.

This brings me to another point involving Gwen Stacy in this movie: She's kind of become a protagonist as well, next to Miles.

Is this screen time theft? Under the screen time critique, it probably would seem that way.

And yet nobody I've seen complains. If anything, this solidified her as one of the best movie adaptations of Gwen Stacy out there. In my opinion.

Unlike the first movie, this one is not driven by the narrative of the main character, but rather multiple.

This is not uncommon. And it's an even bigger case with Arcane.

Yeah, this show is phenomenal everyone who says so is right Jinx is an icon Vi is my cartoon crush next to Petra I was crying so hard at the ending and for that alone this show deserves every ounce of praise it gets and I'm kind of an Arcane stan-

*Inhales*

I think I just have a thing for dystopian stories where characters walk through hell.

(Yes I consider TD a dystopian setting, that'd be a nice hot take to tackle one day.)

The Hunger Games is my favorite dystopian setting that I've seen, just because it's very memorable and inspiring. But Arcane is objectively the best dystopian story out there. If I fade out of my Total Drama obsession, this show might be my next target.

Cupcakes. El fin.

I could stop there, but lets talk about why we're here.

Arcane does not focus on the two main characters only as the driving force of its narrative.

Advertisement tell you that our main characters are the two growing war machines who go around calling each other sisters, Vi and Powder (Jinx. Idk how mad people get for which name I use for her. Sorry if I offend you). In fact, there's evidence to back that up. Other than they're the people with dyed hair, that's instant main character. They're the first characters we meet in the entire show. They're the characters with the final scene that closes off the season. EVERY ending to an act is with them. They're the main characters. Boom.

But wait. Nearly TWO THIRDS of this show doesn't even focus on them!

We have all the Piltover characters we keep switching back to. Jayce, Viktor, Mel, Caitlyn for Act 2 pretty much, Silco kind of becomes his own protagonist in Act 3. Really, the only people who remain consistent side characters are Ekko, and the two boys that get blown to pieces by Powder. And... some other people I'm forgetting the names of. (Sorry, I only had two watch throughs of this show so far and I know nothing about League other than the sisters become enemies.)

Now, why?

Why is this the case? I'm not saying characters other than our mains don't get fleshed out at all, but to the point where they're basically major enough to carry their own show? That SOUNDS like a detriment to the story if anything, especially how unfocused it kind of all gets until the end where everyone's in the same room.

Had Vi or Jinx interact with these characters, their fleshing out makes sense, and you definitely see that with characters like Caitlyn and Silco, who kind of need them to function.

But the Piltover gang? Jinx doesn't meet them at all, neither of the sisters meet Viktor, and Vi does meet Jayce, but in Episode 8 of 9.

Why does nobody complain about this? If anything, these guys are stealing screen time.

Well, it turns out, this is all done in Arcane's benefit, rather than fault. We are all the protagonist of our own story, and there are multiple POVs regarding the world.

It's basically if Hunger Games was third person instead of first, and we actually got a chance to flesh out the other rebels/children.

Me personally, and I know I'm not the only one out there, but the sisters were the most interesting thing about the show, and other characters that talk to them were how they caught my attention. That in no way means I don't care for anyone though, and it's COMPLETELY a PERSONAL thing.

So whenever we DO focus on the sisters and their story, not only do we get these other POVS on the scene that could clash with our view of them, but it makes it so that EVERY. SCENE. MATTERS.

No scene is wasted in fleshing out the sister's story. Everything has a purpose and drives it all to one heartbreaking simulation. There's no wasted space, there's no lack of attention to a certain detail, darn it, it's just right.

(I mean, I guess I would've liked to see what they went through in that time skip, like how Jinx was raised by Silco and processed her new identity, or better yet how tf Vi survived prison when it's heavily implied she beat people to a pulp and got solitary multiple times. But I think Season 2 is gonna cover it.)

Seriously, imagine a version of this show real quick.

Imagine a version of the show that took the Hunger Games approach, and used first person POV on one of the two sisters, doesn't matter which one, they'd both work. Cut out scenes not involving that sister. The other characters that appear revolve around scenes they're in with that sister.

Would that work nearly as well?

I don't think so.

Now First Person POV isn't necessarily a bad thing. Danganronpa is first person. Minecraft Story Mode is first person. Those are probably not great examples, but it can work. (TDDRI, a fic of mine, is first person, and I had to work around that to flesh out everyone else. It can work.)

This show is very hot topic and weirdly paced than what I'm used to. So take everything with a grain of salt as I am nowhere near an expert with this show. The show's story doesn't even get started until Episode 4, as the first three episodes are all flashback to explain where our characters are and why they're motivated to do what they do.

Again, I tried imagining a version of this show where we DIDN'T get those first three episodes, we started with Episode 4, and we just had to ASSUME all the backstory involving the sisters and the titular arcane and put the pieces together through Vi's words and Jinx's hallucinations. I don't think we would have been nearly as invested.

So with these two examples, WHY does nobody complain about screen time involving a character?

Is it because they're just really good pieces of media? Or is there a reason for this?

After all, Spiderverse and Arcane fall under the category of an 'ensemble cast'. A cast of characters in a story where there is no titular main character to drive the narrative, and everyone does instead. It's like if Harry Potter was 'Hogwarts' instead, or some title like that.

But lets take a look at some examples of ensemble casts where there's been a complaint of some sort with screen time:

Total Drama and RWBY.

Now I only like one of these two shows, so I'm gonna put that aside for now.

Total Drama. It has an ensemble cast. The show is about teenagers suffering-I mean competing for a prize, eliminating each other bit by bit as it goes along. Naturally with that setup, early boots are left to dry. But that doesn't stop people from complaining.

Ezekiel gets the most flack for too little screen time, and major fanboys say he should've had more focus. Personally I don't get that based on what role he's deigned to play. Caleb is a more recent example. I thought he was gonna have a bigger role and character than he ended up having, and him being a first boot gag makes even less sense than Zeke. Dawn is a fan favorite who isn't even in that many episodes. Axel is a ripoff of Shawn because of her lack of screen time. Scary Girl is... Scary Girl, who I don't see the fuss about her little screen time as she's comic relief, but the complaint is there. There is SO MUCH bashing about Noah's lack of screen time it is not even funny. So much so that he's sharing screen time with another person.

And who is to blame for this: Well, the characters who make it really far into the game, or course! How dare they steal screen time away from these guys!

I feel like Ripper is the most recent example of this. His character arc was about him breaking a world record. He broke it. It's Episode 5. Now he can leave the show, right-

Nope. He's around till Episode 8. Out of 13. And even then, in Episode 13, he's Millie's partner, which means screen time.

It sounds unjustified because it is. I'm not the biggest Ripper hater, but I definitely see the complaints. (Ripper and Damien swapping places are the only part of the elimination order I would change. Everything else is pretty spot on.)

We already have MK as a pre-merge antagonist and Julia as a post merge antagonist, we don't need this rando bully character as well as it adds nothing. Maybe Ripper would've been better liked if he wasn't a bully and just some morally average comic relief guy, but also... probably not.

But he's not the only fart based character in this show that gets complaints about screen time. Here's where I talk about the first gen.

For what I have seen, the ones with the biggest screen time complaints are Owen, Duncan, and Beth. I don't count Heather cause it's on purpose. I count Sierra because it's a personal gripe I have.

Owen was the original winner of TDI, came back on the show in the second season for a mole subplot nobody likes, and merged season three. He and Noah also got a spinoff.

Beth was the finalist of TDA.

And everyone hates it, including myself.

Then there's Duncan. Easily the character the show focuses on the most. Season 1? 4th place. Season 2? Winner. Season 3? Gone half the season so he's only in 8 episodes not counting what he didn't compete in, but he scored 5th overall. Season 5? Weakest performance, but he still merged. That's 8th place by the way.

By far, THIS is the character in this show that gets the MOST horrendous flack for his screen time. And from what I've learned, if you think this, you probably hate Duncan as a character.

Like, I haven't watched Winx, but I saw videos on YouTube that made fun of Bloom for getting too much screen time.

Somebody do those but with Duncan! I'm not a Duncan hater, but I would like to get a laugh!

So it'd just be easy to say the writers played favorites, it was an issue, and be done with it, right?

Except no.

My GF watched World Tour just recently. (And she was mixed on it.) Her comments regarding Duncan and Gwen were that she wished they had more interactions to sell them (she was routing AGAINST Duncney, basically) and it didn't help that Duncan was gone half the season. She said that it would've helped all the characters involved if he stayed to flesh that out.

To that I went: "Huh. That's interesting how you take no issue with this character's screen time."

But why though? She's not a stan of him, she's a casual viewer, so that can't be it.

And that's when it hit me.

Beth and Sierra. These two make it through an entire season each. And we both collectively hate them as characters. And we hate seeing them on screen.

That's because it's what the characters DO with their screen time.

See what I'm talking about:

Season 1: Duncan is an established character that develops relationships and friendships and learns to open up to people outside of his comfort bad boy zone.

Trent spends 16 episodes sitting still and looking pretty with a guitar. (Okay that's probably not a great example, and I don't hate Trent, but you kinda get it)

Season 2: Duncan is dealing with revenge on Harold for his spoiled relationship with Courtney where he gets abused by her, fights to hold his own, and dumps her.

Beth spends the entire season talking about a fake boyfriend and cheating on it.

Season 3: Duncan, again, is only competing in 8 episodes out of 26, but what does he do? He establishes a new relationship with Gwen, gets her cancelled, forms a friendship with Alejandro, and gets played.

Sierra is there the entire season sexually harassing Cody and passing it off as quirky. We hate to see it. (Seriously, you guys think the love triangle is worse than this? My GF and I agreed we would rather watch the love triangle ten times again, over Sierra being on screen at all.)

What's the difference here? STORY.

Certain characters have story to follow, that NEEDS that screen time to work. Ironically, the plotline of Duncan's that comes across the least genuine, is the season where he's on screen the least. (Not counting All Stars, but they're kind of equal in episodes Duncan's in.)

Again, imagine if we never had that backstory sequence of Gwen Stacy. Yes it eats up screen time, but without it? She would come across as an ingenuine traitor who supposedly ditched her dad for some cool spider society. We NEEDED that sequence.

Duncan is always doing something when the screen is focused on him.

The reason Beth and Sierra don't work despite having all the screen time in the world is that they do NOTHING with the screen time they get. Nothing of value at least. We could've learned a lot about their origins, Beth's underdog status, or Sierra's fanclub, flesh them out as dynamic characters to route for, with different sides of them that slip through time to time that gets the audience thinking.

Nope. Sexual harassment makes up for all of that. (I question why I put up with this show sometimes.)

That would be the case and that's the answer, just do something with your screen time and you're free to have as much as you want.

Except there's ANOTHER key to the puzzle here.

Duncan is in the top 4 of the TD cast for a reason.

He's a main character.

Something Jaune Arc is not.

Hello nemesis my old friend.

Look, I respect people who like RWBY. People can feel any way they want to about a show. Opinions are valid.

If you think Arcane is the worst show ever made, that's valid.

If you think Velma is the best show ever made, that's valid.

It's all VALID.

With that said I think this show is an absolute trainwreck when it comes to writing characters.

Now hold on before you say I hate everything about it, I don't. This show does have SOME merits to it. The music is stellar and I actually listen to the soundtrack from time to time. For a limited budget animation, it's impressive. The choreo is neat. I want these weapons. I actually like quite a few of the side characters. Keep in mind I said side.

But what I look for in a good show is a compelling story and interesting characters to follow.

Something this show just does not have in my opinion.

I keep saying I'll do an analysis post on why Team RWBY are awful protagonists, but I've been busy and my plate has not emptied. But one of my main points regarding them is screen time.

Keep in mind, I've only seen fully up to Season 8. I've only seen clips of Season 9, so whatever I say about 9 may not be accurate.

Team RWBY are the main characters of the show, and yet they have not done a single main character thing throughout EIGHT SEASONS. It's kind of incredible.

If I didn't know the name of the show but saw a clip, I'd assume the main character was Jaune, or Oscar, more on them later.

What have these girls contributed in the battle of Salem's forces?

Season 1: Blake helped stop a robbery. Not even all four of them, just Blake. (So did Sun and Penny.)

Season 2: They broke into the White Fang's secret operation and busted a train into the city to fight off some Grim, in time for Team CFVY to wipe them out. (Those characters appear TWICE in the ENTIRE show, this is the first time. Just to speak my point.)

Season 3: Yang got framed for assault which helped the bad guys. Ruby watched Pyyra die and she blasted an eyeball off Cinder.

Season 4: UH...

Season 5: They housed Oscar, they met Raven, and they took place in the battle of Haven where Yang got the relic. (So did Oscar, JNR, Qrow)

Season 6: They took the relic to Atlas. (So did Oscar, JNR, Qrow)

Season 7: They lied to the general about vital information that could've helped them get one on Salem, and doomed all of Atlas.

Season 8: They caused the death of a kingdom and fell through a hole.

Season 9: UH... (That's not me not knowing what happened in 9, they just climbed out of the hole, basically, as the season has nothing to do with Salem's forces.)

Now, because the main characters are not involved with the main plot very much, does that make them bad?

No. There ARE ways to utilize them outside of driving the external plot.

Some stories are Character vs Self, Internal Conflict. The basis of this show's story is that these kids who grew up to be military soldiers are learning that their lives and the world is not a fairy tale, and they're not the good guys. That SOUNDS like the show is all about internal conflict, right?

Well it's not.

I mean, they DO realize this and make a morally questionable choice with consequences they regret.

In Season SEVEN.

And even THEN, they're treated by gods themselves like they've done nothing wrong!

If you ask me, it should have happened a LONG time ago.

What internal conflicts do these girls have?

Ruby is a naive prodigy who wants to be a huntress and live out a fairy tale reality. And she lives out that dream. Then Pyyra dies and she loses that home. And then she's back to fairy tale land, just doing more crimes and hating authority. And I GUESS she learned a lesson in 9...? I just saw her as depressed.

Weiss is an heiress of a rich company trying to overthrow rule of her father, who hates her. She hates Faunus. She learns not to hate Faunus. And she gains a lot of powers.

Blake is part of a civil rights movement with Faunus and she likes assaulting her own kind and burning their homes. She also has an abusive boyfriend and kills him with a girlfriend by her side.

Yang lost her mommy and wants to find her. She loses her arm. She finds her mommy but doesn't give a s**t because plot. She also gets a girlfriend.

That's like Vi and Jinx's reunion, only they didn't care about seeing each other again after years, they just pointed fists and guns at each other and said, "Where's the arcane?! Where's Silco?! I'm not here for you, I have a police GF now!" "I'm not here for you, I just wanted an easy route to blast Piltover to pieces! Mwahaha!"

See where I'm going with that?

Internal conflict is a key to making characters screen time worth while.

But lets face it, Team RWBY not having very well established internal/relevance to the external conflict is not the full reason why this is a problem with their screen time.

It's their lack thereof.

Three quarters of every season, they're just sitting at some random place that's not even pretty to look at, and the SIDE CHARACTERS do all the plot relevant stuff.

See why I like the side characters better?

Lets look at that chart again:

Season 1: Sun and Penny stopped that robbery.

Season 2: Team CFVY stopped the Grim invasion.

Season 3: Pyyra's story and downward spiral to her death.

Season 4: Nora and Ren the season.

Season 5: Oscar. The tribe.

Season 6: Oscar again as he's responsible for the exposition involved in that season.

Season 7: Ironwood's descent into insanity AND Penny's descent into accidental heroism.

Season 8: Both those characters die. Everyone dies.

Season 9: ...okay, good point, there was no one else.

Okay so maybe Season 9 gets a pass, but the others? Can you really put Team RWBY in a plot summary?

And that's just external conflict talking, let's talk the MAIN CHARACTER with the INTERNAL conflicts throughout the ENTIRE show.

Jaune Arc.

A SIDE character, voiced by one of the writers, has some of the most plotlines to follow due to his internal struggle and conflict in this new war throughout the entire show.

He has something to do in MOST of the seasons of this show. Not unlike Duncan. The only time I think he didn't have anything going on was Season 7.

In the very first season, Jaune has an entire character arc surrounding him trying to find his inner strength with a one off bully character as an antagonist. That sounds fine, so what's the issue?

This character arc takes up FOUR episodes out of 16. A WHOLE QUARTER OF THE SEASON.

"Well, maybe those episodes cut away to other people at some points-"

No. They don't. It's all Jaune in all these episodes.

Season two is less so Jaune focused, but he has a little subplot surrounding letting go of his feelings for Weiss and finding another girl who would gladly take him. I guess it's priority respect because Neptune was into Weiss at the time? But those two wound up never being a thing, so...

The whole time I thought Weiss was just asexual, but then 9 came in to screw that idea.

Season three focuses on Pyyra, Jaune's love interest, and therefore he's vital to her story and her thought process, so much so that the big angst moment in the season is with him and their death kiss.

Season four and five are focused on Jaune's thirst for revenge on Cinder, a member of Salem's forces, for killing Pyyra. He learns about Salem's forces along the way, makes his own opinion about all this lore, and decides to help out due to his personal necessity.

Wow. He has an internal conflict going on, AND he's active with the external conflict. HMM...

Season six is him letting go of his grief after his moral failure from the Battle of Haven nearly getting Weiss killed. And also he pins Oscar to the wall because why not. It's brief but it's also a full on character arc.

Season eight, he kills Penny, a girl he has never interacted with before this point, and he's a grieving mess. So much so that season nine also includes Jaune dealing with MULTIPLE grieving instances and personal failures.

Everyone else got a seasonal break from the story, and yet Jaune could not.

Now, is this a screen time issue?

Yes.

But NOT for the reasons you might think.

Let's go off of Duncan again, a character with a major status in the show's story and conflict from day one. He was designed that way.

Jaune was not designed that way. BUT I don't actually hate his story for the screen time he gets. In fact, he's probably one of the most interesting characters in the show because there's so much time dedicated to his struggle and his story.

The elephant in the room isn't because Jaune has a story.

It's because the main characters don't have a story.

Again, Arcane, that show focuses on a LOT of characters that aren't Vi and Jinx. You could argue Jayce is the Jaune in their universe. But why does it work? Because there is NOT a neglect of characterization of the leads.

In RWBY, there's a serious neglect issue.

And it's not just Jaune. There are other side characters who've been stealing time away from the leads.

Oscar, ever since he debuted Season 4, has been devoted to screen time stealing, and stealing the main character status with a Chosen One narrative and a pretty offensive way of portraying Multiple Personality Disorder. He's the one with the chosen one story, he's the one who interacts with the bad guys, he's toe to toe with Ironwood, he's the one related to Salem, and he does all of it with the personality of a hollow pine tree.

I mean I guess he also has a crush on Ruby, but... I don't want to get into that.

Hell, CINDER, an ANTAGONIST of the show, has more conflict and screen time than the leads. And she's one of my least favorite characters in the entire show, isn't that sweet?!

On top of that, she's a VILLAIN. We shouldn't be routing for her!

Then there's the rest of JNPR. Nora and Ren have a season focused on them, that being season 4. Pyyra is the same case with season 3. Pyyra dies in that season, so she's obviously not getting screen time any further. But Ren and Nora are alive, AND they have a subplot in the Atlas arc. Having a subplot isn't a problem, it just becomes jarring when the main characters don't have an arc and they do.

Penny gets revived and dies in the Atlas arc. That's also a thing.

The fix here should be really simple! Swap roles! Have the side characters sit in the houses with their little arcs, and have Team RWBY on the fields reacting to everything. It wouldn't excuse their lack of inner struggle, but at least they'd be involved with the plot.

There are many ways you could fix this. Like Oscar's role of being related to Salem. Ruby's mom is dead, but like, what if her mom was Salem and was taken out in war and revived/corrupted into this monster figure? That'd be an interesting narrative.

And RWBY is not the only show, the previous season of Pretty Cure, Delicious Party, ALSO has this issue. And arguably they did it worse because I don't even care for the side characters there either. I'd be repeating myself with criticism there:

Yui, the supposed main character, has no character trait other than be a glutton and a stand in for her grandmother, the other Cures are also irrelevant to the plot and just spend their time eating. The boys of this magical girl show are the focus and have all the wishy washy plotlines, and none of them are even that interesting.

I will give RWBY this over Delicious Party to prove I can see its merits:

At least they only have ONE forth wall narration and do know boundaries to that stuff, as opposed to Delicious Party that thinks their viewers are IDIOTS, and needs a narrator to explain EVERYTHING. CONSTANTLY.

(What a new low for that franchise, am I right? At least we have Hirogaru Sky.)

So what have we learned here?

To answer the question: Is Screen Time An Issue For A Character?

No. It's not that simple.

It's what the character DOES with that screen time that matters. And their role in the story that warrants this screen time.

They need to have all the details of their story laid out for you to care about them.

They need every scene involving their story to matter.

They need to have a plotline that justifies the screen time, small role or big role.

They need to be involved with the main story if they are a major character.

They need an internal conflict to keep the time on them engaging.

They need to be doing something.

If they are a minor character, additional screen time is not a bad thing.

A minor character with a lot of screen time could be there to advance the world building, they could be heavily connected to major character, relationship or otherwise.

But the minor characters don't become favorites and neglect focus on the people the story is revolving around.

First Person POV is a difficult storytelling technique when it comes to screen time, but it's not a bad tool. It can be used as a certain perspective for every character involved if done properly.

And just... screen time alone isn't a valid criticism in my opinion. It's WAY more complicated than that.

What's your opinion? Reblog your thoughts, I'm very curious, especially with media with this issue I did not cover.

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doriandrifting · 8 months

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I don't understand why Gay Mike truthers are called biphobic. It's not that we don't want Mike to be bi or for there to be more bi rep on shows. There just isn't any evidence Mike is bi, and a lot to suggest that he's gay.

Me either. I feel like it’s gotten better lately-ish. Like a year ago it felt like I had to make a disclaimer that I was bi everytime I tried to justify why I think Mike is gay lmao I’m not hating if you think Mike is bi, I just don’t think a lot of things line up with that and I’m tired of the biphobic accusations against people who point it out!! (not talking about every bi Mike truther just to be clear, just the ones who sling weird accusations)

One example I’ve talked about is how a lot of the the bi Mike proof is undone when we look at S2 and see the parallel narrative they created for Dustin and Dart:

Then we’ve got things like “Our son with a girl?”, “She doesn’t even look like a girl!”, “With different hair, do you think [El] could’ve been Lonnie’s boy?”, “I’ve got an idea—boys only, “one way” (as opposed to the common expression “going both ways”), “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” (which is weird IMO bc it implies some sort of bisexual supremacy if Mike isn’t gay—like atleast I can still like girls unlike you!!—which could obviously happen irl but doesn’t make sense narratively, like underlying the surface level meaning of Will struggling with the girls being added to the party—namely El—it’s also about Mike’s projection of his own insecurity onto Will, and we know that because Mike brings up the idea of never getting girlfriends in the next breath), and the fact that during his “love” confession Mike could not actually pin point a moment where at the very least he realized that he had a crush on El—instead he quite literally just lied about being in love with her the moment he met her (which some bisexual truthers have tried to deny was a lie, but it’s quite literally canon that Mike was going to send El to Pennhurst the next morning sooo??), and basically none of it makes sense to me as bisexual coding. To me, it makes sense in the context of viewers rewatching the show and being able to be like “omg haha boys only!! we should’ve known he was gay!!”

#didn’t mean to rant like this HSJSMSKS #but yeah I couldn’t agree more anon #gay mike wheeler

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aemiron-main · 4 months

Text

What Are You, Henry Creel? Detect Thoughts and Reading Minds and Doppelgangers and TFS: Is TFS "Henry" A Doppelganger?

So, I already talked in this post and this post and this post about Doppelgangers in ST, and now, I want to talk about them re: TFS Henry.

TFS Henry, the guy who keeps having to be reminded what his name is and that he’s “normal”:

TFS Henry, the guy who isn't Henry:

I’m wondering if the real Henry Creel went into that cave in Nevada and something else came out.

Let’s get into it.

So, it’s interesting to me that TFS Henry seemingly has the ability to read minds- in a way that’s extremely similar to Detect Thoughts from DND:

And it’s interesting because that isn’t something that we see Henry doing in the show/outside of TFS.

Sure, during his 1979 speech, 001 talks about “reaching into minds”:

But a.) we don’t ever see 1959 Henry actually doing that in-show, on screen. Especially not with what I talked about in this post re: the rabbit and how it’s unlikely he was reaching into the rabbit’s mind + how he was likely trying to free the rabbit from the snare.

And b.) the 001 that’s giving the monologue during the massacre having those mind reading powers doesn’t negate what I’m saying in this analysis at all, and instead actually works perfectly because considering the multiple 001s during the 1979 massacre and the parallels between the 1979 massacre and the Russian escaped Demodog and Demogorgon attack where the shadow "went into them,", I won’t be surprised if one of the 001s during the massacre was a shapeshifter/Doppelganger.

And y'know what else is interesting about TFS Henry's mind reading abilities? Y’know who else has the ability to read minds?

DND Doppelgangers do- they use Detect Thoughts on their victims and can read minds in the same way that TFS “Henry” does:

And so, I’m wondering if the real Henry Creel was replaced by a Doppelganger in the cave in Nevada (and also if that 001 that talks about reaching into peoples’ minds was also a Doppelganger).

And speaking of that cave in Nevada, it’s interesting that Brenner says they found the spyglass “in the cave, lying next to the body.”

But he doesn’t say what body/whose body. Just the body.

And, on the surface, we assume it was the scientist’s body because prior to this line, Brenner mentioned finding the scientist’s remains near the cave system with no trace of what he was carrying:

But that’s never stated during that “next to the body” line, they left the identity of the body ambiguous on purpose.

And not only that, what's even more damning re: these being two different bodies is that Brenner says that the scientist's remains were found NEAR the cave system, whereas he says that this body with the spyglass was found IN the caves:

And is it just me, or does anyone else find it weird that Brenner says that the scientist escaped?

That wording reminds me a lot of the ST Russia arc re: the Demogorgon escape, also reminds me of Henward and El trying to escape the lab in 1979 (staring at the idea of one of those Henwards being a Doppelganger) and I wonder if that “scientist” was actually some sort of Doppelganger creature shapeshifted into a scientist (which would be how it managed to escape/get past guards), and if the body in the caves was Henry’s body, with his spyglass next to it. Or, if the scientist was carrying some sort of creature/the shadow particles/if the shadow particles themselves are tied into all of the shapeshifter/Doppelganger stuff. And if the Doppelganger creature escaped, killed the scientist, and left, entering the caves and later attacking Henry/taking his form.

Which, speaking of the spyglass, if TFS “Henry” is actually a Doppelganger, why does he seem to have an emotional connection to the spyglass? Shouldn’t that emotional connection be based on memories? Memories supposedly only Henry would have?

Well, like I talked about in this post, and like Stav talked about in this post, DND Greater Doppelgangers gain all of their victims’ memories, the victim’s personality, and the victim’s mannerisms by consuming/killing them. So, the Doppelganger would not only have all of Henry’s memories of the spyglass, but would also demonstrate the expected emotional response that Henry would have- they literally consume EVERYTHING about their victims, it’s what makes Doppelgangers so formidable in DND, because they’re extremely difficult to differentiate from the original unless you have True Sight.

And also, it wasn’t uncommon for Doppelgangers to get “lost” in the person they were shapeshifted into, and basically forget that they aren’t actually that person/that they’re a Doppelganger, and also sometimes even forget who they're imitating/who they are in general:

And also, going back to Brenner talking the way Henry reacts to this info/seizes almost reminds me of The Guest (which is on the S4 board):

And in The Guest, this blonde haired, blue-eyed guy shows up to the Peterson family’s home, claiming to be a friend named David Collins who served in the military alongside their now-dead son, Caleb:

And there’s even a picture of him on the mantle, in the military, with Caleb, his exact face right beside Caleb:

However, the family- specifically the daughter, Anna, becomes suspicious of David, and realizes that he isn’t who he claims he is. Which, that reminds me of Alice telling "Henry" that he's Not Henry, especially since Anna in The Guest has blonde hair and has Alice In Wonderland parallels during The Guest (especially near the end):

And how did Anna find out that "David" wasn't David Collins? Well, she overheard him on the phone talking to a plastic surgeon, and found out that“David” had been getting surgeries to hide his identity, and to make himself look like the real David Collins, having stolen David’s identity- hence how he was in the photo with Caleb- the man in the photo was the real David Collins, whereas the man that showed up on the Petersons’ doorstep was impersonating David Collins.

This has HUGE shapeshifter/Doppelganger vibes, it’s literally what DND Doppelgangers would be like if they didn’t have access to their shapeshifting magic, and if they were unable to consume the minds of their victims to gain their personalities/memories/mannerisms (and hell, only Greater Doppelgangers can do that, Lesser Doppelgangers still have to learn the mannerisms etc manually, by observing the victim & sometimes keeping them captive).

And once “David’s” identity is compromised/once it’s revealed that he’s Not David (which is another huge similarity to TFS Henry- they never tell us what “David’s” real name is, just that he’s Not David, just like how they don’t tell us who or what TFS Henry actually is, just that he’s Not Henry), “David” becomes violent, and he becomes violent because he was the victim of a mind control experiment done by the US government where the subject would become violent when their identity was compromised, and would kill anyone who was aware of their compromised identity:

Which, this reminds me a lot of how Doppelgangers tend to become violent once their true nature is revealed.

And also, “David” almost becomes a replacement for the dead brother/son, Caleb, in addition to also replacing the real David, as “David” bonds with Caleb’s siblings and parents much like how Caleb did before he died- much like how “Henry” in TFS is not only pretending to be Henry, but is also still filling Henry’s role in his relationship with Virginia/in TFS, it’s like if “David” had come home and pretended to be Caleb instead, it’s like they combined Caleb and David from The Guest to create TFS Henry and Real Henry vs Fake Henry.

And so, going back to that Brenner and Henry spyglass scene/the “next to the body” spyglass scene, “Henry’s” reaction to Brenner talking about the body is very interesting in the context of The Guest & “David” being programmed to kill when his identity is compromised & how Brenner seems to possibly know that “Henry” is a shapeshifter/killed the real Henry- but wait, how is that true if “Henry” doesn’t kill during that Brenner scene?

Well, they put those electrodes on “Henry’s” head and zapped the hell out of him, it seems. Which may have been enough to override that killing instinct/any sort of “programming”.

Like, that doesn’t seem like a regular seizure- he’s upright for a large portion of it, jerking and holding onto the spyglass very similarly to somebody that’s being electrocuted:

Also, the idea of Brenner knowing that “Henry” isn’t the real Henry would tie into what Brenner says about how “Henry” can never lead a normal life:

Because deep, deep down, a Doppelganger would know that they aren’t actually that person, even if they forget sometimes/even if they end up truly believing that they are that person, they never truly will be.

Also, the use of the word “crawl” from Brenner during this same scene is interesting- because what creature do we know that crawls around in ST?

Oh, right. The extremely DND Doppelganger coded ST “Demogorgon”:

Not to mention that they repeatedly make a point of showing "Demogorgons" crawling during TFS, both on the screens when Henry starts twitching, and as shadows on the side of the theatre wall thing during the play/when theyre crawling around when the Eldridge crashes.

And now, moving away from The Guest, there’s also what Patty says to Henry- instead of asking “who are you, Henry Creel?” she instead asks “what are you, Henry Creel?”

Which, that’s an interesting word choice rather than asking “who” Henry is or even just asking “what’s wrong with you?”- it almost seems like Patty has realized that “Henry” isn’t human, that he’s something else.

There’s also the matter of the tentacle-spider-leg-things that grow out of Henry’s back in the attic:

Which, first of all, how the hell did that even happen? Since when does Henry have the ability to randomly grow these appendages out of his body? Especially since Virginia saw it happen, so it doesn't seem to have just been a vision/Henry hallucinating.

And second of all, those appendages REALLY remind me of the tentacles from The Thing, and specifically the 2011 version (which is interesting considering the discussion in S3 about Carpenter's The Thing vs the original The Thing (the 1951 version called The Thing From Another World)):

I wonder if the reason why a.) Henry was physically able to grow those appendages in the first place and b.) why they resemble The Thing so strongly (keeping in mind that The Thing was a shapeshifter that mimicked people), is because he’s actually a Doppelganger/shapeshifter, with his body able to shift however he wants/grow appendages like those ones that come out of his back.

Especially since Greater Doppelgangers can create new forms for themselves without needing to copy them from someone else, even though they stilll would very often copy them from others.

And also, if we bring time travel into it/even just bring seeing the future into it, it doesn’t Have to be time travel, and when we look at DND lore, and how Greater Doppelgangers can consume and memorize up to 3 appearances/personalities at once, allowing them to swap between them, part of me wonders if TFS “Henry” had seen into the future, and had seen Vecna/somehow consumed Vecna in one of the timelines, and if those weird tentacle appendages coming out of his back were the start of him shifting into Vecna:

But that’s more speculation than anything, and I’m not 100% firm on it, and like I said, Greater Doppelgangers can create new forms for themselves.

This would all also tie to what I talked about in this post re: Brenner somehow being Henry/puppeting Henry. If Brenner is a doppelganger/shapeshifter, then that explains how he can "be Henry"/look like Henry without actually being Henry.

Also, TFS Henry being a Doppelganger may also explain TFS Henry and Brenner Sr’s weird blood type, because like I talked about in this post, we have the weird blood from The Thing vs Doppelganger Virginia’s weird blood from the night of the murders.

Which makes me wonder if Brenner Sr ever came back at all- after all, isn’t it a little weird that it’s never explained how he managed to survive and come back?

But if he was replaced by a Doppelganger/grey ST “Demogorgon” from the yellow UD… and if that same Doppelganger later escaped and replaced Henry…

Maybe that’s part of why Brenner Jr wants to make contact with Dimension X/open a gate to it so badly- maybe he thinks his father is still out there.

And also, this brings us to Brenner Sr’s deathbed scene- where apparently he told Brenner Jr that he briefly ended up in another dimension:

Which, sure, it’s still definitely plausible that that was Brenner Sr & that he was just telling his son the truth of what happened on his deathbed.

But also, isn’t it a little odd to barely survive and barely escape a horrifying alternate dimension and then tell your son about it, leading him to spend his entire life trying to get that very dimension? Trying to open a gate to it?

It almost feels like a trap.

Because if you were a shapeshifting creature blending in with humanity, and if you wanted fellow shapeshifters to take over humanity/blend in with them etc etc, wouldnt you want to open a gate to the dimension you came from/where the rest of the shapeshifters are? And if you couldn't open that gate yourself, wouldn't you want to get somebody (such as Brenner Jr) to figure out how to do so?

Especially since Doppelgangers can read minds- so it would’ve known all about Brenner Jr and how driven he is/determined he is/how likely he would be to try and open a gate to Dimension X if his “father” mentioned it on his deathbed.

Plus, look at the wording Brenner later uses about the cave:

“You changed. Like my papa.”

Changed- as in shapeshifted, perhaps

Long story short, I think there might be some other variables involved other than just “Henry was entirely replaced by something in the cave,” but I also won’t be surprised if him being entirely replaced was the case.

There’s also something extremely weird about how 7 year old Henry has that super dark hair vs TFS and in-show Henry’s lighter hair. It’s almost like we never saw that 7 year old Henry again.

But yeah, there’s SOMETHING weird going on here. It makes me wonder if this is a timeline where Henry died/was replaced in the cave, versus Henry still being alive in other timelines.

Especially since the vibe of TFS “Henry” talking about how Henry’s “right here” to Alice reminds me of 001 talking about how the lab kids are “in here” to El (is the real Henry still inside the Doppelganger's mind, the same way the lab kids are?):

Which would align with TFS “Henry” absorbing/consuming the real Henry versus 001 absorbing/consuming the lab kids, especially if both TFS “Henry” and that version of 001 that talks about absorbing the lab kids are both Doppelgangers, possibly even the same Doppelganger.

I also wonder if all of this ties into a.) the NINA simulation vibes that TFS has and b.) Brenner wanting to recreate Henry/001:

Because part of me does wonder if a large portion of this is a simulation but the subject of said simulation is a Doppelganger, and Brenner is trying to force the Doppelganger to shift into Henry/convince it that it’s Henry.

But why would Brenner put a Doppelganger through something like NINA? Why not just let it absorb Henry’s memories naturally/by consuming Henry?

Well, because that would kill Henry. That would kill the original source, and Brenner doesn’t want that, especially not when there’s a chance that his attempts at recreation could fail.

But remember- Doppelgangers dont need to kill a person to take on their appearance, they only need to kill to be able to automatically absorb the subject’s memories and personality.

So, if Brenner got the Doppelganger to physically shift into Henry’s form, without killing Henry (therefore technically making itself identical to Henry), and then put him through NINA, he could basically have another Henry.

But why would Brenner want the Doppelganger to have Henry’s memories/experiences? Or at least believe that he’s Henry and have memories/experiences that are fake/altered?

Well, because of the role that emotions and memories play in powers & activating powers & the strength of powers.

If Brenner managed to get a Doppelganger to completely replicate Henry genetically, that Doppelganger could very well have powers/have the potential to have powers.

However, it may not be able to tap into those powers if it’s still a “blank slate”/has no emotions to fuel those powers.

Hence why he would need to put it through a simulation and make it believe that it’s Henry/put some of Henry's memories into its brain (see: spyglass memories from when Henry was 7, that we conveniently have video footage of, just like the video footage used during NINA), make it form emotional connections/feel emotions, which Greater Doppelgangers in DND are 1000% capable of- even though Standard Doppelgangers are typically more animalistic (although definitely not entirely animals/still intelligent), Greater Doppelgangers are just as smart and capable of emotions as humans are.

Just like how Brenner put El through NINA to bring her powers back/give them a spark:

He may have needed to do the same for the Doppelganger- he may have needed to give its powers a spark.

I also wonder if this ties to Soteria- if Soteria prevents the Doppelganger from shapeshifting/inhibits its abilities, forcing it to stay in Henry’s form.

Anyway! Lots to think about.

#stranger things #the first shadow #henry creel #st vs dnd

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