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wibble-wobbegong · 2 years

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Mike Hostage Theory

i just wanted to make an official post with my view on this theory bc i have a very specific vision

edit: i’ve made a post with some more evidence here! :)

For anyone who doesn’t know, the Mike hostage theory is essentially the idea that Mike will be taken hostage by Vecna in season 5.

Here’s my reasoning for why I think this is a possibility for season 5:

- Mike has managed to ruin all of Vecna’s plans since season 1 and each season he develops a better understanding of the UD and is able to formulate plans that take direct action in preventing Vecna from achieving his goal. a short list that shows this would be:

s1: Mike discovers what the upside down is and relays all the information he’s gathered from El, giving the rest of the cast an understanding of what’s actually happening. Plans to rescue will spring from Mike’s information

s2: Mike is the only one who actually understands what’s happening with Will AND he takes the lead in creating the plan to save Will. Second only to Will, he has the most in depth understanding of how the mind flayer works which he demonstrates in episode 8 where he explains everything he knows to Dustin who then makes the analogy to the mind flayer in DND. He suggests putting Will to sleep, isolating him to try and break him out of the possession, getting the mind flayer out of Will before the gate completely closes, and distracting the demodogs by lighting the graveyard on fire.

s3: After learning about the mind flayer’s return, he comes to the conclusion that the mind flayer won’t die when it’s expelled from someone and that they have to figure out how to actually kill the mind flayer (though they never ended up doing this). After learning about Billy being a potential host, he mentally made a complete plan of how to know whether he was a host or not. He barely had to think about it after they confirmed Billy was acting suspicious, he knew how to test him with the sauna and executed that plan in the same day after coordinating with the rest of the party. Mike is still pretty in touch with how the mind flayer works when interacting with its hosts

s4: Vecna very specifically timed his attacks so they would begin the day Mike left. He was counting on Mike not being able to get involved and it making him more successful, which is what happened. He thought he had Mike completely out of the picture and yet he still managed to get involved with Vecna’s plans when he was finally going to kill El. Mike’s monologue was mostly a failure, but it did boost El’s memories with Max in a way. Either way, Mike still managed to get in the way even with Vecna counting on him being on the opposite side of the country.

This would give Vecna 1 major motive to keep Mike in the UD with him. It allows him to keep an eye on Mike and eliminate the possibility of his interference.

- Mike is incredibly close with vecna’s true target; Will. Vecna needs to bring Will back into the UD again to follow through with whatever plan he’s been trying to follow through with since season 1. Does he want Will to join him? Does he want to turn Will into an asset to the hivemind? Does he want to possess Will himself and obtain his abilities? There’s no way to know for sure, but no matter what he needs to lure Will into a situation where they can talk alone. Vecna and Will are still connected so Vecna is definitely aware that Will’s feelings for Mike are way too strong for Will to not come to rescue him. He’s likely going to use Will’s emotions to his advantage.

- Mike’s perspective needs to be told and having him live through a long-term psychic curse from Vecna would allow us to understand what Mike’s fears really are. I think they could use a situation like this to tell Mike’s perspective of the story in a way that’s reminiscent of how El had an isolated story in season 2.

- Mike has a very strong tendency to isolate himself when he can’t cope with things and there is going to be a lot weighing on him, emotionally, in season 5; Eddie’s death, breaking up with El, Will is in danger again, still believing that his feelings are unreciprocated, and he’s probably gonna be expected to take a leadership role again. Everyone is going to be focused on dealing with the apocalypse during the two year time gap so I could see Mike spending a lot of time alone when he’s not working with the party which gives Vecna an opportunity to kidnap him silently before starting the next phase of his attack.

note: maybe will discovers his powers before the time skip and has to spend a lot of the two year time gap practicing with el, though he hangs out with mike when he can

How I think this could advance multiple plot lines!

Mike’s Personal Arc

I covered this a little bit, but if mike were to go under a long-term psychic connection with vecna, we could watch his point of view for a lot of the major moments in different seasons that we were denied his perspective. It would be an opportunity to finally reveal mike’s genuine feelings, fears, and regrets to the audience in a way that wouldn’t involve other characters discovering this about him. Personally, Mike would finally be able to emotionally advance past a lot of his repression as he’s finally forced to face it head on over and over. He might break down at first, and he should, but the longer he stays there the more he’ll learn to deal with those fears. I’m going to tie this into another plot line, but him being able to walk through his emotions would demonstrate a new emotional maturity he has been lacking due to his relationship with El and his incessant need to be normal. He might learn to hide from these things that are torturing him by going into happy memories, which will force him to accept that he wasn’t happy in his relationship with El and that he is a happier person when he’s with Will and his friends doing the things he loves (I’m sure he’s aware of this to some extent during s4). Vecna won’t be present in his mind (explained later), so Mike will be able to walk through these happy memories safely and reminisce on those moments which will continue to expand his perspective, this time from a positive light.

Will’s Personal Arc

Will is going to have a Hero Arc in season 5, it’s been foreshadowed since season 2. He’s finally escaping his repeated victimization and fighting back, protecting who he loves, and avenging everything that Vecna stole from him. He doesn’t need to be Mike’s heroine to go through this arc, but it would be more impactful for Will to rescue the boy who saved him time and time again, the boy who always protected him, the boy he’s in love with. It’ll add more emotional depth to Will’s story in season 5, not that protecting the others isn’t emotionally strong, but it’ll give him a certain level of empowerment that he couldn’t achieve by saving anyone else. Knowing that he has the strength to do what he’s admired Mike for for so long would be fantastic for his view of himself. If he’s going to fight off Vecna with love, he’ll need to develop some self love too, which can come from finding strength in himself and knowing Mike reciprocates his feelings (Mike makes him feel like he isn’t a mistake, but he feels like a mistake for being gay. When Mike confesses it’ll make Will feel even less like a mistake).

The Mike/Will Role Reversal

There have been tons of hint throughout season 4 that hint at Mike and Will having reversed roles in season 5. For one, Mike has a ton of death tags (ex. being compared directly to romeo, dying in the opening DND game, etc.) that won’t lead to an actual death. When Mike disappears randomly, there might be people who assume he’s dead the same way they did with Will in season 1, but if we know anything about Will it’s that he’d never give up on Mike just like how Mike never gave up on him. This is also going to give them an even deeper understanding of each other as they’ve now both been the searcher and the rescued.

Finding Max

So, I’m going to be assuming two things for this part of the theory.

1. Mike is traveling throughout memories in his own head but those memories are manifesting in Vecna’s mind.

2. Vecna absorbed Max’s consciousness, as he describes being able to absorb his victims, and Max is now able to traverse Vecna’s mind and go back to her own memories as she pleases.

If both of those are true, then Mike may very well run into Max once he starts hiding away in happier memories. To be clear, I don’t want nor think Mike will be the one to free her consciousness: that has to be left up to Lucas and El somehow. Mike could be the one to discover that she is alive and start considering the possibility of bringing her back. When he’s freed, this is information he can give to the party. That ties into his role as an information gatherer and it’ll likely lead to him planning a way to get her back, though it’ll be Lucas and El carrying the beef of that plan.

As for which memory they’d run into each other in, I think it has to be that scene in the gym from season 2. It’s pretty much the only memory between them where they’re both happy and together that’s been shown on screen. It would be a good way to reaffirm their friendship, too, if they’re both visiting that memory. We see Mike shooting her concerned glances when her nose bleeds and she wrote him a letter despite their dynamic being shown as rivals more than friends, so this is a way to expand the depth of their relationship and show that they are friends and they do care about each other in a way that’s yet to be displayed.

Romantic Byler

Can’t talk about Mike in season 5 without factoring byler into it!

As far as how this theory plays into byler edging towards becoming canon, I think this is where the audience would finally be being told that Mike is in love with Will in every aspect except the actual words. This is where “show don’t tell” is gonna take it’s extreme. We’re going to be going on a journey with Mike through memory lane of all the good and the bad, which Will is inevitably a major part of both of those types of memories. We’ll see Mike’s reactions to things, which we aren’t shown throughout the show very often after season 1. There is going to be an undeniable love for Will shown from Mike’s perspective.

Then, with Will being the one to rescue Mike, we’re also going to get Mike realizing Will needs him even when he isn’t providing something for Will. He’s going to understand that Will wants him around. A more emotionally aware Mike + a single Mike + a Mike who feels loved for who he is by Will = a potential confession.

All around, I just think that Mike getting held hostage through a long-standing curse could add a lot to the story. I also wrote this while having not slept in about 2 days, so please feel free to add onto the things I missed :)

#can you tell this is my favorite theory #can you tell #mike hostage theory #mike wheeler #byler #my theories

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queenofthearchipelago · 1 year

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We don't talk enough about the Sauna Test.

Mike literally grabbed a pipe and tried to bash Billy's brain in to protect El, and then it backfired and Billy almost killed Mike, and all Will could do was... stand there.

We forget this because as soon as Mike grabbed the pipe, the camera prioritizes Mike, Billy and El. But Will was there. Lucas was there. Max was there. They watched helplessly as Mike nearly got himself killed trying to save El.

Will has his own memories of Mike being in danger and not being able to do anything about it. Watching Mike be a knight in shining armour and not being able to stop him from putting himself in more danger than he needs to be in.

Dustin has the cliff scene from season 1 but it's Will, Lucas, and Max that saw the sauna test.

#mike wheeler #stranger things #byler #will byers #thoughtsfromthequeen

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aemiron-main · 1 year

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sooo I’m thinking thoughts abt all the sauna scenes in s3. and the implications of the imagery of Mike helping lock a sauna door while a somewhat queercoded, shirtless dude tries to break out when considered in the context of mike’s internalized homophobia + the fact that billy DOES break out, he, much like mike’s sexuality and IH, can’t stay repressed forever. especially since, like I’m gonna talk about in my gay Mike analysis, Mike is the one who holds the sauna door open (despite people yelling at him to shut it) and then looks disgusted with himself.

like I don’t have many firm thoughts on billy & queercoding yet, but he IS a character who’s associated with negative perceptions of queerness (getting called a faggot by his father) & so it would make sense for him to be a character who ties into a representation of mike’s IH, as he’s associated with hateful/negative perceptions do queerness- and specifically, his dad’s line is about billy “staring in the mirror like a faggot”, so the homophobia is narratively linked to self-perception/the mirror, much like how internalized homophobia is linked to self-perception/homophobia towards oneself.

to be clear: im not saying that the billy scene is JUST about mike’s IH because it’s not. but it IS another extra layer imo, just like how many other scenes in ST have multiple meanings/layers. they could’ve written billy to be trapped anywhere else. but they didn’t. they chose the sauna. a setting associated with mike’s ih. I’m also not a billy apologist but I think there’s a difference between discussing him & the imagery surrounding his character vs apologizing for/liking him. and also I’m not saying mike has a crush on billy or anything, I’m saying that billy in certain scenes acts narratively as a representation of internalized homophobia and queerness for Mike.

there’s also something to be said for how mike’s the one who tries to attack billy when Billy’s attacking El, and Mike failing with his attack. smthn smthn Mike is losing the fight against his IH smthn smthn El saves him again (which, I’ve talked a lot abt in other posts abt El ‘saving’ Mike in situations like this and at the quarry and how it ties into the way that mike’s relationship with El ‘saves’ him from homophobia etc in the short term bc ppl think he’s straight but makes things worse in the long term bc he has to repress himself), but it’s only a temporary save, billy isn’t defeated in that scene, just like how El and Mike’s relationship with her can’t permanently save mike from his own IH/from facing homophobia.

#stranger things #byler #mike wheeler #Mike wheeler analysis #gay Mike wheeler #st analysis #mike’s IH #billy hargrove ref #st the sauna #el saving mike

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eightfifteen · 11 months

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Just clearing out my drafts so here's a masterlist of how literally everything happens at eightfifteen.

arcade True Vision - it's not shown in any meaningful way, but as Joyce was picking Will up at 9, it's easy to assume that it could have been 8:15. Especially as they put a lot of focus on Will's True Sight getting activated at 8:15.

The True Sight at the end of 2x01. Not only do they focus on the clock at the Byers' house to show it's 8:15, they ALSO have El say it's 8:15 when Hopper gets home at the exact same time the vision is happening, highlighting the hour and making sure the audience takes note of Eight Fifteen. AND the track 'eight fifteen' is playing.

Halloween - once again, Will had to be back by 9 (just like at the arcade). But more importantly - the camera shows it's 8:04/8:15 when he talks to Mike.

Then in Season 3, everything happens at NINE fifteen - aka Eight Fifteen if you account for daylight savings.

When Mike is with Eleven, the clock shows it's 8:20. When he eventually gets to the movies, they just missed the previews, which usually takes about 15 minutes so if we assume the movie started at 9, the actual movie would start at 9:15, which is when the gate gets opened (power outage) and when Will feels the MF again for the first time.

Then in the woods during castle byers' destruction, they show Jancy entering Mrs. Driscoll's house at 9:15 which is when Driscoll starts going crazy.

At the same time, we see El and Max going to Heather's, except the clock there shows it's around 8:20, even though 'blue meets yellow in the west' happens right before that (aka 9:45)? It's a fancy clock so I think it's possible they might have just forgotten to adjust it to daylight savings, which means it could have been 9:20 - though it's definitely a little late to have dinner.

And that's when Will feels the mindflayer again. Which is nothing, as it's implied it's just B*lly/the mindflayer/Vecna recognising El or something.

Aka that night is a bit of a mess, but we know at least that the UD was most active (aka Driscoll crazy) around 9:15, and that Will either felt the UD because it was 9:15, or because Billy recognised El. But considering that every night this week Will has felt the UD at 9:15, it stands to reason that it is more likely that that's the reason.

BECAUSE the next day, the sauna test happens "around nine". aka Will left "a little after 8". Indicating that by the time they have Billy locked and loaded, and Will feels the MF activate Billy, it is 9:15

THE DAY AFTER THAT, they're in the hospital with Driscoll, and that's when the MF flesh creature is in the hospital and Will feels its presence. During the entire fight between Jon, Nance and that reporter guy, they show like FIVE different clocks and even make sure to move it ahead with every scene. Will only notices the fight towards the end, when the lights start flickering after Nancy killed the guy and it starts shifting into the ooze monster. When Will notices something wrong, it's 8:55. Noteably, he doesn't grab for his neck this time - this time he notices the lights flickering first, meaning it's not his usual MF 9:15 spideysense.

AKA all of season 3, while the gate was continuously open, on top of the regular disturbances Will felt when the mf was close by (like in the field with the rats), he also felt a wave of MF activity every night around 9:15, or they just really wanted to highlight how almost everything happens around 9/9:15.

It's different in s4, because here the main focus becomes 4 o'clock because that's the hour associated with Vecna and his Upside Down. And also, Vecna famously does not adhere to the rules so he can attack anyone at any time because he's making new portals/gates with no connection at all to Will or possibly even Will's UD.

I still haven't found good download links to s4 so i can't scan through it like i can with the earlier seasons, but interestingly

mleven breaks up at 8:15 (in the morning, but still)

#eightfifteengate #eight fifteen #stranger things #analysis #just clearing out drafts

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ur-fav-alien · 2 years

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what really breaks my heart is Max and Billy's relationship post s2, because yeah something obviously changed, but maybe good things changed too. Because why else would Max be so hopefully that the Mind Flayer wasn't possessing Billy unless she cared about him. Because if he was still as much an asshole as everyone says he is, then why would she care? Yeah, I know about truma bonds, but Max had scared the shit out of Billy and told him to stay away from her and her friends, whose the say that Billy didn't contiune to keep up that promise? So why would their truama have anything to do with this? Even then, if you find out your abuser is being possessed with something that might kill them, wouldn't you be happy? Max on the other hand is not happy about Billy potentiality being possessed, she's very worried about him. First evidence is the god damn sauna scene where Billy's bawling his eyes out for Max to believe him and Max is crying right with him and promising him that everything is going to be okay and that they're going to help him. If Max didn't care about him, why would she be crying and telling him that he's going to be okay. And fucking- I know that he's going through something really painful right now but he's so vunrable to her and willing to tell her everything about what's going on with him. And idk the way that he talks to her in this scene just feels so heartbreaking and he keeps calling her Max instead of Maxine and ughhhhh tears man tears. And then during the battle of Starcourt, when Billy is chasing down Mike, El, and Max, Max tries to reason with him and reminds him of who he is and while she's doing this she's fucking crying. LIke UKLASDJF;LKAJSDFKLJASDFJ I can't it breaks my heart. AND THEN HE USES HIS LAST DYING BREATHS TO SAY SORRY TO HER!?!?! FUCCCK

Like yes something obviously changed about their relationship after Max damn near smashed his junk in, but they got closer between seasn 2 and season 3 to the point where Max genuinely cares about her brother and ughhhhh

This post has no point other than me crying about those stupid siblings and how Billy could've had some kind of redemption arc, because it so obvious he can change ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. this is also a fuck you to the duffer brothers because why would Max say Billy didn't deserved to be saved when she literally said she hoped he wasn't possessed. I can't-

#billy hargrove #max mayfield #I can't they make me cry too much #i just want them to be happy jesus christ #they both deserve so much better FUCK #I know that we saw nothing in Max's mind at the end of s4 and i know the duffer brothers said that Max is brain dead but #I hope that Max is imaging herself playing on the beaches of California with her brother and friends #and her brother's boyfr-#this is just so I can promote my fic that I'm writing which is the event that changed Max + Billy's relationship into something less tense #like they still kinda hate each other but not as much #if Billy survived thenn THAT'S when they would finally stop hating each other

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will80sbyers · 1 year

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Interactions of byler + the official couples in Stranger things through the seasons

Byler :

Will tells Mike the truth about the roll being a 7

Mike finds Will outside the arcade and asks if he's ok and puts one arm around him.

Mike and Will talk about Max being invited to halloween.

Mike finds Will after his vision and asks if he's ok deciding to bring him home after.

Will confides in Mike about his visions of the Upside Down, Mike comforts Will and confides in him about missing El, feeling grief for her loss and feeling crazy because sometimes he thinks he hears her or sees her... Will agrees that he too feels crazy sometimes and they say they will go crazy together, they understand and support each other through difficulties.

Will confides in Mike in the corridor at school about Dart being from the Upside Down.

Mike tries to call Will because he's worried.

Mike goes to Will's house to help.

Mike and Will talk about what Will is feeling with his visions of the upside down and Mike tries to comfort him by telling him he's like a superspy and touches his hand to make him understand he's there for him.

Mike and Will sleep in the same room and when Will wakes up from a vision nightmare Mike asks him if he's ok.

Mike and Will are together when Will starts having the seizure in the field.

Mike stays with Will at the hospital.

Mike asks Will if he's ok, Will is possessed and tells him a lie to trap the soldiers.

Mike makes the monologue for Will in the shed talking about the first time they met and how it was the best thing he ever did to choose to become his friend.

Mike asks Will if he's okay at the cinema, they are sitting together like a couple.

Mike and Will have the fight in the rain and Mike goes to find Will after to apologize immediately.

Mike understands immediately what Will wants to tell him about the mindflayer being activated in the sauna and saves Max.

Mike and Will talk about Will being on another d&d group and he says it's not possible and they smile to each other.

Mike and Will hug when Will is leaving.

Mike acts awkward with Will at the airport and avoids hugging him, he also asks him about the painting like he didn't know about it when we know El wrote about it in the letter saying Will must have a crush for someone because he's acting weird. Mike looks jealous and like he's trying to pretend he does not care.

Will tells Mike that El lied to him.

Will and Mike fight at rink o mania and have a tense moment. '' we're friends! we're friends!''

Will is ranting about the situation and his own worries to Mike and sees that he's worried. He approaches him and they have a heart to heart about Mike being worried for El because they had a fight that he thinks it's a fight they can't solve and then they talk about how Will is not sure that he trusts Owens and how Mike is the one that saved him and they have to save Hawkins again. They share a smile together before being interrupted by Jonathan. The closet is open in front of them lol

Will and Mike act as a team asking the soldiers to order pizza.

Will and Mike share another heart to heart, Mike apologizes to Will for how he acted and tells Will he feels like he lost him and he wants to be a team, friends, best friends again... they smile to each other and share a moment that gets interrupted by cars approaching plus Jonathan. Closet open behind them.

Mike and Will look at each other in the desert.

Byler has another heart to heart sitting on top of a car, Mike talks about being worried for El and about how he didn't know what to say to her when they fought, Will comforts him and tells him how sometimes it's difficult to open up with the people we care about because what if they don't like the truth, they look at each other and share a moment before getting interrupted again by Argyle.

Byler acts as a team when they go to Suzie.

Mike and Will have another heart to heart, Mike confides his insecurities to Will and Will gives him the painting and a speech that makes him feel secure about himself again.

Dustin says Mike was always calling the Byers...

Will prompts Mike to make the monologue for El.

Will and Mike have another heart to heart in the cabin where Will confides in Mike and Mike in Will and Mike reassures Will by touching his shoulder and telling him they are going to kill Vecna. They get interrupted by cars.

Mike and Will stay close to each other on the hill.

Stancy:

Steve and Nancy talk about meeting again to study. They make out in the bathroom.

They make out in Nancy's room and Nancy gets angry at Steve saying she's not ''like the other girls'' he sees. He tries to make her laugh and compliments her and they keep studying.

Steve and Nancy have sex in Steve's room while Barb is being killed. They held hands.

The scene of Steve and Nancy continues while Barb is being killed, Nancy wakes up near Steve feeling guilty and leaves.

Steve and Nancy talk about if Steve told anyone about what they did, Steve tells Nancy she's being paranoid and that he had a good time. They make out again.

Steve and Nancy talk in that corridor outside near the field about how Nancy went at Steve's, she's worried about Barb missing, he's worried about his dad giving him a hard time because of the party, she goes away angry.

Steve goes to Nancy's to apologize to her about how he acted. He clearly say sorry and asks about Barb, Nancy lies to him about her plans of meeting with Jon... He asks her to go to watch a movie tonight and pretend everything is normal... Nancy lies to him, saying she can't because she has to be there for Mike because Will is dead. Nancy kisses Steve goodbye.

Steve and Nancy fight because Steve let his friend write that she's a slut on the cinema and he thinks she was cheating on him with Jonathan. Nancy slaps Steve.

Steve and Nancy are back together and they sit on the couch.

Steve and Nancy talk in the car about Steve's essay and he talks about how he will end up working for his father and how maybe that's not bad because he could be around for her next year and take care of her because he loves her. Nancy replies she loves him too, looking unsure. They kiss.

Steve and Nancy kiss at school.

Steve and Nancy go to Barb's parents to have dinner and Nancy leave to go cry in the bathroom.

Steve and Nancy talk in the library at school about Barb and how Steve wants to just pretend to be stupid teenagers. They hug.

Steve and Nancy have a HUGE fight in the bathroom at the party where she calls him bullshit and says she's not in love with him and he leaves her alone because he's angry.

Steve and Nancy talk in the corridor outside of the field about their fight and Nancy can't say to Steve that she loves him, Steve says he thinks Nancy is bullshit.

Steve and Nancy talk about what happened and Steve tells her to leave with Jonathan and that he's ok with them being over basically.

Nancy takes care of Steve's injuries in the upside down and they have a bit of tension.They fall over each other with the earthquake.

Steve and Nancy talk in the camper they stole and Steve talks about his dream to her, they share a nice moment and smile to each other.

Steve and Nancy talk in the woods in the upside down and he confesses his feelings for her, she does not respond. They get interrupted by Robin.

Jopper:

Joyce and Hopper talk about Will missing.

Hopper tells Joyce about losing his daughter and she asks him to believe her that she talked with Will.

Hopper goes to Joyce to tell her Will is alive and he believes her.

Joyce and Hopper talk about Brenner and the labs and Will missing.

Joyce and Hopper leave together to find El's mother.

Hopper and Joyce leave from El's mother house and he tells Joyce they are going to find Will and Jim talks about how they have a chance to find him and how he would give everything to have another one to see his daughter again.

Joyce tells Hopper she's going with him because Will is her son.

Hopper calms Joyce down from her panic attack.

Joyce and Hop talk when leaving Owens's office about how Will is doing and Hop asks about Bob to Joyce.

Joyce and Hop talk about Will having his episodes and share an intimate moment and heart to heart and talk about how they feel like everything is different now and maybe things will not go back to how they were before.

Hopper helps Joyce understand what is going on with Will before leaving because he understands what he is drawing.

Joyce finds Hop in the tunnel under Hawkins and saves him. They hug.

Hopper stays near Joyce when she is in shock for Bob's death in her room.

Joyce and Hop have a heart to heart sitting on a car outside of the school during the snowball. They hug.

Hopper goes to Joyce to talk about how he doesn't like that El is dating Mike, they talk and have an heart to heart... about heart to hearts lol Joyce tries to help him by writing something for him.

Hopper and Joyce have another heart to heart talking about Mike and El, Joyce touches Hopper's hand to comfort him. Hop asks her out but she's not ready to date. Hop watches her from a distance, clearly in love with her. They get interrupted.

Hopper goes to Joyce again to celebrate because Mike did not come to the house in the morning, he asks Joyce on a date pretending it's not really a date but a dinner between friends even if they both know it's a date lol and she accepts.

Joyce forgets about her date with Hop because of UD stuff is happening, Hop leaves the restaurant angry.

Joyce goes to Hop to tell him about what she suspects and they fight because he's angry about the date and also jealous about her spending time with Mr. Clarke. Jim still follows her to help after.

Jim and Joyce have a heart to heart in the labs and Hopper tells her that she's not the only one going crazy, he feels the same and it's important to him that she feels safe.

Jim and Joyce get back to Jim's home after he gets hit by russian terminator and they talk about finding out what the hell is happening.

Jim and Joyce go to the mayor to get answers and work as a team.

Hop and Joyce bicker while they are in the woods.

Joyce and Hop fight at Murray's house and Murray gives them half of the talk about lovers quarrels.

Joyce and Hop bicker at Murray's home before she calls the government again.

Joyce and Hop keep bickering in the car and Murray gives them the talk again telling them to just sleep together already lmao

Joyce and Hop talk at the fair when they are looking for the kids

Joyce and Hop held hands intentionally in that game that rotates idk how it's called sorry

Jopper talk and have a heart to heat and Hop talk about them being a good team in the russian base before deciding to go on another date together.

Joyce saves Hopper and they hug in russia.

Joyce and Jim have another heart to heart where they tell each other they thought they lost the other one... they smile to each other and talk about the kids.

Joyce and Hopper have another heart to heart when they are changing in the church and they smile to each other and kiss!!! they get interrupted

Jopper kiss again.

Jopper hold hands on the hill.

Jancy:

Nancy talks to Jonathan about how she's sorry for Will missing.

Nancy and Jon watch each other in the distance when he's in the corridor and she's at lunch.

Nancy goes to talk to Jonathan about the pictures and Barb missing.

Jonathan and Nancy take the gun from Lonnie and talk about Barb and Will missing and the demogorgon.

Nancy and Jon have heart to heart talking about their parents.

Jonathan and Nancy fight in the woods about Nancy acting different because she's dating Steve.

Jonathan saves Nancy from the Upside Down and they go to her home. They hug.

Jonathan sleeps in Nancy's room and keeps her company because they are scared and don't want to be alone.

Jon and Nancy talk about the demogorgon and held hands for the first time because they get scared by the door. Interruption trope.

Nancy and Jon go to the store to buy stuff to kill the demogorgon.

Nancy tends to Jon's bruises after the fight he has with Steve. Jon asks her if she's okay and she says ''everything is fine''

Jon and Nancy at the school talk about going to trap the demogorgon.

Nancy and Jon prepare the trap to kill the demogorgon and get the matching scars.

Jon and Nancy have an intimate moment when she's bandaging his hand. They held hands purposefully and Jon looks like he wants to kiss her until they get interrupted by Steve.

Nancy gives the present to Jon and kisses him on the cheek.

Nancy tries to convince Jon to come to the party before they get interrupted by Steve.

Jonathan brings Nancy home and takes care of her when she's drunk.

Jonathan and Nancy talk sitting on the car about how Nancy is feeling for Steve and about their grief for things being so different now.

Jon and Nancy go to her room to start the plan to avenge Barb and call Barb's mother on the phone

Jon and Nancy leave together to go to the park for their plan.

Jon and Nancy leave to go to Murray.

Jon and Nancy are at the hotel and they talk about their scars and what happened between them, Nancy gets offended that he says that she waited only a month for him.

Nancy and Jon get the talk from Murray lol ''we're friends! Friends!'' trope

Nancy and Jon meet to talk before going to bed. Go inside again then go back again and finally KISS!!! And then go inside the room to have sex.

Nancy and Jon smile to each other at the ball.

Nancy and Jonathan are in a relationship and they wake up late and go to work together. They talk in the car and Jon tries to calm down Nancy. It's only implied they kissed.

Jon and Nancy bicker a bit because Nancy wants to follow the story but Jon is worried about his job.

Jon and Nancy talk about going to follow the story again and bicker about it almost fighting but then Jon goes with her anyway.

Jon and Nancy have a BIG fight, they both have good points but they are not understanding the other in that moment. Nancy goes home crying.

Nancy calls Jon and tells him what is happening and ask if Will is safe.

Nancy and Jon apologize to each other about what they said in their fight.

Nancy and Jon save each other's life at the hospital.

Jancy talks in the supermarket about the plan to kill the monster.

Jancy talk about their future and how it's going to be okay and they held hands and kiss and hug.

Jancy talk about all the reasons they love the other one talking about personal things about their character. It's true love, bitch!

Jonathan and Nancy meet again and they hug each other and talk to each other about what happened.

Nancy and Jonathan talk to each other again and Jon apologizes for not being there but keeps lying about college

Jancy hold hands on the hill.

Mileven:

Mike says he will leave the door open for El.

Mike asks El's name.

El tells Mike she's in danger from bad people.

Mike and El play at home until she sees a picture of Will and Mike asks if she knows where he is.

Mike and El have fun at Mike's home when he skips school.

Mike comforts El after she hides in the closet.

Mike gives El his watch.

Mike and El have a heart to heart talking about Mike being bullied.

Mike and El fight because Mike is angry that she lied about Will being alive.

Mike is still angry with El and he tells her she hurt him, she finds a way to make him hear Will through the radio.

Mike does El's make up.

Mike tells El she's pretty.

Mike and El talk in the woods when El asks Mike to go back.

Mike and El fight after El hurts Lucas without meaning to.

El saves Mike and they hug and Mike tells her she's not a monster.

Mike and El talk in the bathroom, he tells her she's pretty and they have a heart to heart about El being back, they almost kiss and get the interruption trope from Dustin barging in the room.

Mike and El talk and Mike kisses her.

Mike and El held hands while running away from Brenner.

Mike and El talk about going to the snowball while she's on a table and held hands.

Mike tries to call El on the radio.

Mike tries to call El again on the radio on halloween and thinks he sense her presence before giving up. El watches him from the void.

El and Mike meet again and talk about her being gone, they hug.

El and Mike amost kiss but get the interruption trope again from Hopper.

Mike and El meet at the snowball, they talk, he says to her that she's beautiful and they dance together and kiss.

Mike and El are making out in her room and joke around a bit only to get interrupted by Hopper.

Mike and El talk on the radio when he's going to the cinema.

Mike and El are affectionate at Dustin's house.

Mike and El leave their friends to go back to make out at home. They hold hands.

Mike and El make out at home before getting interrupted again by Hopper.

Mike and El talk on the phone and Mike lies to her.

Mike and El fight and El dumps Mike's ass because he keeps lying to her, Mike doesn't follow her.

Mike tries to make up with El and make her laugh with the dummy and says ''You're the most important thing to me in the world.'' but she tells him that maybe Hop was right, Mike still does not apologize for lying to her, she says she spied on him and he gets annoyed by that saying it's against the rules and she says she makes her own rules.

Mike fights Billy to save El and El saves Mike and all the others after.

Lucas promts Mike to talk to El, they have a brief talk where he tells her he likes her new style and they share m&ms and smile to each other.

Mike is against El using her powers because he's worried about her safety, they have a heart to heart about it where El asks him to trust her and he does after Max sends him a look and he says to El to be careful. They hold hands.

Mike hugs El after Billy attacks her in her vision.

Mike and El talk in the supermarket, he apologizes for being jealous of Max and wanting her all to himself and tries to tell her he loves her by saying '' it makes you crazy'' but she doesn't understand what he means... before they get interrupted by Dustin.

Mike and El talk about seeing each other again and El kisses Mike telling him she loves him too. Mike does not respond and seems shocked.

They hug goodbye.

El writes a letter full of lies to Mike.

Mike and El meet at the airport, they kiss and hug once and Mike brings her flowers, they are putting up an act, El is disappointed that Mike wrote ''from Mike'' in the card on the bouquet of flowers.

Mike and El held hands and make small talk on the booth at rink o mania but Will is there lol

Mike and El have a HUGE fight, Mike is initially trying to connect with her but he doesn't get her pain and they both invalidate the feelings of the other one and Mike calls her ridiculous because she think he does not love her anymore because he can't say it to her and he can't even write it. Mike tells her she's the most important person to him and she's a superhero but she says she's not.

El gets arrested and Mike says he's going to fix the situation but she doesn't look at him, she's leaving him behind.

El sends the note ''From El'' to Mike basically breaking up with him.

Mike and El meet again in the desert, they hug and touch foreheads, Will is between them visually

Mike and El talk a bit and joke around in the pizza place and say they missed each other, Mike tries to say something but he seems unsure, they get interrupted by argyle. They held hands.

Mike makes his monologue for El and they held hands.

El leans on Mike in the hospital, but avoids him at the cabin and looks at him weird.

Boyce:

Bob and Joyce make out in the closet of the store and talk about having a movie nights with the kids.

Bob and Joyce dance together and Bob says to her that they could leave Hawkins together and how ''wine makes him crazy'' ... Joyce says she can't move because they are not a normal family.

Bob and Joyce talk about Will being bullied on the videotape and Bob says her strenght of character is what he loves about her and confides in her about his struggles when he was young. She kisses him.

Bob and Joyce talk on the phone about how to use the video thing.

Bob goes to Joyce bringing games for Will, she tells him now it's not a good moment and is about to make him leave before asking Bob for help with understanding what the drawings mean to find Hop.

Bob talks to Joyce asking her to open up to him but she keeps lying, Bob understands where Hop is.

Joyce finally tells Bob the truth about everything and they talk in the hospital.

Joyce and Bob hug before he leaves to save them in the labs when the demodogs are attacking.

Joyce watches when Bob dies and is heartbroken.

Joyce remembers about a movie night she had with Bob the year before, they were hugging on the couch.

Lumax:

Max and Lucas meet at school.

Max and Lucas talk about Will at school and why they call him zombie boy.

Lucas and Max have a fight outside of school because Max feels like they are leaving her out of the group.

Lucas decides to tell Max all the truth about the Upside Down and she touches his hand on purpose telling him to not follow her outside because she wants to protect him from Billy.

Lucas goes to Max to bring her proof about what he told her and they leave together.

Lucas and Max have a heart to heart over the bus and she talks about her family

Max and Lucas held hands because they are scared.

Lucas talk with Dustin about Max and says the ''she's not my girlfriend'' line and Dustin tells him he felt the electricity between them.

Max and Lucas are alone in the corridor and talk about what is going to happen if they don't succeed.

Max and Lucas dance together at the ball and kiss!!!

Max is helping Lucas after Dustin blinds him and they joke around.

Lucas drinks all the water and Max and him bicker a bit.

Max and Lucas joke around on the hill and then go away holding hands.

Lucas and Max joke around and have fun at the hospital.

Lucas and Max joke around together making fun of Dustin and are close together when Will and El are leaving

Lucas and Max look at each other from a distance in the corridor.

Lucas and Max broke up and he tries to invite Max to his basketball game and tries to talk to her about how she's feeling and acting and they have a small fight, she refuses to go to the game.

Lucas and Max talk at the cemetery and Lucas tries to make Max open up to him. Lucas tells her he wants her to talk to him directly not with a letter. She leaves and doesn't open up here.

Max and Lucas hug after Max was attacked by Vecna

Max and Lucas have a heart to heart in the woods about how Lucas was thinking about patrick and about how he didn't see Max's pain before but now he does.He apologizes to her.

Lucas goes to talk to Max in the back of the camper, they have a heart to heart and smile to each other and shake hands.

Lucas and Max have another heart to heart in vecna's home and Lucas puts one hand on Max's shoulder telling her they are going to kill Vecna.

Lucas and Max talk about their date to the cinema in Vecna's home.

Lucas stays with Max at the hospital.

Rockie:

Robin and Vickie talk at the game and joke with each other

Robin looks at Vickie in the store and Vickie looks at her when she leaves because she's heartbroken that Vickie has a boyfriend... when they show vickie and Dan, her boyfriend, Robin is between them visually

Robin and Vickie have a heart to heart while they are working together as a team to make the sandwitches, Vickie has broken up with her boyfriend and they understand each other about talking a lot and fast. They are flirting and paralleling Byler like it's crazyyyy

#byler

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himynameis4 · 1 year

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Max Mayfield as the Instigator of Flickergate.

Imma be so fr with you, i am not at all familiar with flickergate. But if someone in the stranger things crew is gonna be outside of time/traveling through time to send messages, communicating via dreams, etc… i think it makes sense for it to be max.

@givehimthemedicine ‘s big analysis had a really good argument for the process of “being vecna’d” basically unlocking psychic powers (ie venca traumatizing his victims w bad memories to make them emotional the way he had El use her bad memories to unlock HER powers, and then using that power overload to open gates, killing victims in the process)

So… if max has just had a power overload… and she’s in a coma & el can’t find her consciousness… max accidentally sending her own consciousness back in time w her newly-unlocked powers could work.

I kinda love the idea of max mayfield travelling throughout the years, messing with the lights & futilely trying to spare her friends some pain/save billy etc. Max being the one to try and stop Will from leaving Mike’s house by messing with the lights that night? Maybe Max messes with the lights during the sauna test with Billy to try and warn them earlier? And Max mentioned in canon that the lights in her trailer flickered—what if she was trying to warn herself?

🤷 idk enough on flickergate to rlly speak on this lol, but i rlly like the concept. what does everybody else think?

#max mayfield #max mayfield has powers #stranger things #stranger things theory #flickergate #kinda #time travel #idk what else to tag lol

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mike-el · 2 years

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hi ally! first of all, thanks for being such a ray of sunshine for the mileven community! ❤️ i wanna ask what your expectations are for s5 mileven and how do you think the duffers will write them for their last final season? :)

Hi cutie!! Thank you so much 🥺 I’m so happy to be here and celebrate the ship I’ve loved for six years!!

As for predictions, I’ve seen a lot of intriguing theories! One that I believe really has some merit is that mike specifically will be put in danger in the final battle and el will need to rescue him. For the love interest of a superhero, mike has made it through the show relatively unscathed (physically, anyways), and we haven’t seen this situation before - aside from briefly in the sauna test and generally in the season finales, when el is saving everyone. I could totally see the duffers utilizing this superhero must save love interest trope, especially since they’ve already acknowledged the Superman/Lois Lane dynamic in season 4. It would be a kind of nod to that aspect of their relationship.

From a pessimistic lens, I don’t see mileven having a huge spotlight in the final season. This is mostly because the general audience seems to have lost interest in them, and the narrative of stranger things has expanded quite a bit over the last four seasons to encapsulate a lot of different arcs and stories that all have to fit and have screen time in the final season. There are lots of loose story threads to tie up. So realistically I don’t see them having a major arc next season. I hope so much that I am wrong tho!

That being said, there is still plenty of story left to explore for those 2, and if it were up to me (a woman with taste), they would return as a central focus of the narrative. I would love to see the final season really dive into the idea that mike and eleven were fated to meet; Mike saying “ it wasn’t fate, it wasn’t destiny , it was just simple dumb luck” in 4x08 is the first time the series has verbally acknowledged the soulmate aspect of their relationship, and then further confirmed it with Mike loving El from the moment he saw her. I mean this show is about supernatural forces so I don’t know why it would be all that far fetched to include love and destiny as one of those supernatural forces. Also, ST is hammy as hell, and that’s why we love it, so I feel the show should really just lean into it, go all the way and really explore that soulmatism in the final season. Especially since the core 4 dynamic is supposed to return in the final season, so to end where we began is the perfect opportunity to emphasize the soulmate story, which has been rooted in this narrarive since the start, and which we see play out across all four seasons (in large part thanks to Finn and Millie’s incredible acting skills). Come on duffers, finish out strong!

Whatever happens, I believe mike and el will end the series together. I don’t see a mileven wedding as some have predicted (including apparently Millie lol), but I can’t see them going separate ways. Not after everything that has happened, not after “I knew right then and there in that moment I loved you and I have loved you every day since”, not after “mike is a part of eleven, eleven is a part of mike, they are one.” As the story has been told thus far, it would be a narrative mistake not to do so. I know I am biased but also I am right 😊

#mileven #mike x el #asks #I share a thought #thx again for ur ask! I’m typing all this out on mobile hopefully it makes sense lol #OTP: and every day since

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millhavenn · 11 months

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Reddit repost 2—Stranger Things subreddit.

There was a post about them yesterday, but it got locked because people decided to make it about a ship war rather than an appreciation of how great their friendship is.

Really looking forward to seeing them actually work together in season 5, because both should have pretty major roles hopefully. Will understands Vecna like no one else does, and I think that’s going to be key to beating him. And with both Mike’s girlfriend and best friend being important to the fight, there’s no way that Mike can’t be involved.

Hoping we can get a scene with Will being honest with Mike about how he feels, because his character deserves it. There’s a zero percent chance that Mike would be anything other than accepting of him, and Noah Schnapp would no doubt crush the scene, like he did with the van scene in season 4.

The van scene was one of my top 3 favourite scenes this season, because whilst heartbreaking, it perfectly displayed how strong their friendship is. The way Will was able to know how Mike was hurting, put his own feelings aside to recognise how important El was to Mike, and capture how important Mike was to both El and himself was beautiful. He knew how much it hurt him to see Mike in love with El, but he helped his best friend anyway. Unrequited love is hard, but Will powers through it.

Edit: Ok I didn’t plan on writing this much, it kinda just happened.

Yeah I was in that posts comment section. It is part of the reason why I made this. I wanted to see what exactly caused people to react in such a negative way.

I still don’t know what caused it. But this post is doing incredibly well, and I am glad. It is a very small step to bringing back some sort of calm to this community! Lol

I agree with everything you said. I am hoping and praying that a coming out scene is written into the script for season 5. After everything he has gone through, Will deserves the relief, comfort, and safety that comes with sharing your true identity to the people that will love you unconditionally.

A Mike + Will duo/partnership in season 5 would be AMAZING. I need to see them fucking up a bunch of demo(gorgon/bat/dog)s side-by-side. The two of them saving the world together (or helping to) would be a beautiful way to bring their storylines to a close—they both get their revenge on those that had caused them, and the people they love, pain.

It does not matter if it is platonic or romantic—the final blow should be theirs and I will die on this hill !!

I think the negative reactions come as a result of any perceived implication that their relationship is romantic; as whilst majority of fans are relatively positive towards their friendship, the common consensus around here is that it’s just that, a friendship. And whilst I personally agree with that judgement, the constant desire to turn any mention of their friendship into a ship war is tiring.

Seeing Mike get his hands dirty to defend El and Will from some monsters would be a sight to behold, and it’d be cool to see Mike confront Vecna similar to when he tried to take on Billy in the sauna in season 3.

In regards to the “final blow”, I’m about 99% sure this will still technically go to Eleven. But I don’t think it’ll be as simple as El holding out her hand and screaming whilst everyone cheers her on. There’ll be multiple layers to the fight, which is where the rest of the kids, and the adults will come into it.

That is really sad to me, but yoy are right. Hopefully that mob (sort of) mindset changes. I feel that I would be able to have many lovely discussions (such as this one) with users here if implications of romance were not taken so personal.

And the above applies to both sides.

For anybody wondering, my post is not alluding to a specific dynamic in regards to Mike and Will. Users have been lovely thus far of sharing their own interpretation of their dynamic in a mature, and quite beautiful, way. It makes me happy, and I hope it stays this way, even if for a little longer.

Is that wishful thinking?

Yes!! I say Mike Wheeler should be given a chainsaw in season 5. Nancy/Will teaching him how to shoot a gun would be great, as well. There is a lot of potential in season 5, if they choose to go the apocalyptic route, really.

Oh yeah, definitely. I am sure a bunch of powerless teenagers would not stand a chance against powerful entities, such as Vecna and the Mind Flayer, on their own.

That was a joke on my part, but it would be funny if Will just, like, walks up while Vecna is at his weakest, and hits him on the head with a random chair. Imagine going through all of that evil planning, nearly winning in your attempt to control the world, only to die by a random gay kid. I would cry

You definitely do see a similar mindset with other aspects of show. Whenever there’s a post celebrating Mike and El’s love for each other, you’ll usually find someone going out of their way to tell everyone how “fake” or “toxic” they are together. Like I get that Reddit is a platform for sharing opinions, but sometimes I wonder would it not be easier to just downvote and keep scrolling, rather than offering a factually incorrect assessment? Same thing here for when people suggest Mike has been a bad friend to Will.

Maybe just a healthy dose of optimism.

Honestly as long as we get a decent scene with Will standing up to Vecna, I’ll be happy. The poor kid has spent the past two seasons in the back seat.

TLDR: I agree with you big time, and that should be a mindset everybody has!

It most definitely would be.

I feel that there are people who do want to have proper discussions with others of differing opinions, hence why they do not downvote and move on, but it has become clear that it is not something which is possible in the subreddit. Regardless of your preference towards Mikes relationship with Eleven, or Mikes relationship with Will, you are going to receive an immature response. It is best to ignore.

There is a minority in this situation that does deserve more support than what they are currently being given, however, this does not make them innocent—I would know. I have started and partook in many arguments myself, and now that I look back on them, it was stupid of me to replicate the way I was mistreated onto other people.

Everybody in this subreddit needs to learn how to have a proper discussion before ever considering confronting another individual about their opinion. No one is ever right, and if that cannot be accepted, it takes a simple downvote and scroll to continue with the day.

Mileven, Byler, it is not as big of a deal as people here make it out to be—enjoy your ships in peace, and let others enjoy their ships in peace, too!

#byler #stranger things #anti mileven

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stranger-chichka · 1 year

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Hi, sorry i'm back again 😅, but i said that thing about s1e6 so it got me curious again about the other episodes that make 7 on each season and

S2e5 - the we won't let him scene

S3e4 - it's the sauna test, so it's both the 'the most important thing in the world' and the 'boys only'

S4e3 - it's the M*leven fight

Is it weird that i'm sensing pattern???

There are so many similar patterns in these episodes, here are just a few I could remember.

s1ep6 “The Monster”:

Nancy and Jonathan are back from the UD, spending the night at Wheelers, making a plan for how to save Will & Barb;

Jonathan to Nancy: “It can’t get us in here”;

Hopper tells Joyce about the lab and they visit El's mother;

"Sometimes your total obliviousness just blows my mind";

Florence to Nancy: “Only love makes you that crazy and that’s damn stupid”;

Lucas goes to look for Will on his own;

The bullies make Mike jump off the cliff where Will’s fake body was found, but El saves Mike and calls herself “a monster” while we’re shown how she has opened the gate;

s2ep5 “Dig Dug”:

Mike calls Will “a superspy”, spends the night at Byers and later in the episode they save Hopper because of his ability to see what “the shadow monster” see = with the help of Bob Newby the Superhero;

Will to Mike: “What if he spies back?” and Mike’s answer is: “We won’t let him”;

El visits her mother and Terry shows her what Brenner did to her in the lab;

Dustin goes looking for Dart on his own but meets Steve on his way ("We have bigger problems than your love life");

Nancy & Jonathan go to Murray to tell him everything about the lab and the UD while Lucas tells Max;

Murray's speech about people and how they don't want to look behind the curtain;

s3ep4 “The Sauna Test”:

Hopper & Joyce spend the night at Hop's cabin after him being knocked out by the commie during their visit to the lab;

Will tells the party about the Mind Flayer aka Shadow Monster and they decide to check if Billy is the new host;

Dustin is separated from the party again;

Mike's "Did you spy on me? That's totally against the rules!" to what El answers "I make my own rules";

Karen's speech to Nancy about people and how she should not listen to them and finish what she'd started;

s4ep3 “The Monster and the Superhero”:

Joyce & Hopper go to Alaska to save Hopper;

The fight between Mike & El in which she calls herself a monster again, but Mike says she's a superhero: "You've seen it, I've been bullied my entire life" -> reference to s1;

The party is separated;

El's having flashbacks from the lab, and is taken by Owens to Brenner to get her powers back;

Nancy & Robin don't believe what the newspapers say about the massacre at Creels;

#stranger things #stranger things parallels

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strangertheory · 2 years

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A lot of people here are talking about mike dying this season by sacrificing himself! do you think is true?

Mmmmm.

You probably don't want to hear my thoughts and ideas on this. If you're looking for reassurance, pretend I didn't reply to your Ask and don't read any more of this answer.

...

One of my tiny "what if?" theories (that I don't really discuss on my blog very often, since I try to keep things more positive and hopeful here for everyone) is that perhaps there's... a Mike that already died... so to speak.

El saves Mike when he jumps from the quarry in season 1. Mike mentions that El saved him. El appears to use her superhuman powers to save Mike from Billy in the sauna in season 3, too. Mike seems to get himself into a lot of perilous situations that El has thus far protected him from.

And now in season 4 part 1, Dr. Brenner mentioned the story of the French woman who has blocked out memory of the death of her lover because she was so distraught by it.

It's not an especially concrete theory and I don't consider it to be as likely as many other ideas that I've discussed here on my blog, but it's an idea I've been considering for a little while. I would like to push this idea aside and ignore it, but it keeps returning whenever I sit thinking about certain things for too long.

#cw character death #stranger things theories

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beth-march · 2 years

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Hottest take: I don’t even think Mike is that crazy about Will platonically let alone romantically

This is controversial, anon! You’re going to get me in trouble. But, yes, if I’m really honest, I agree with you. All of the party are good, wonderful friends, and Mike goes hard for all of his friends, both because he’s a good friend and because he has a fierce moral conduct, but I don’t think that Will takes precedence above the others as some people like to make out. I’ve always thought of that line about befriending Will being the best thing Mike ever did as a reference to the fact that their kindergarten friendship was the beginning of the party. And I know that Mike just said something about Hawkins not being the same without Will in ST4 but, I don’t know, in my opinion it came off as a little disingenuous, like Mike felt guilty for not keeping in better touch with Will and guilty for how things had gone with El and wanted to do some damage control, to gain a friend in all the unexpected calamity.

Also… Mike never talks to Will about anything other than what they’ve been through and El. We see him wanting to save him and protect him - the same way he jumped off a cliff for Dustin in S1, was flailing around trying to save Lucas from Billy in the S2 finale, and was calling out in warning and trying to save Max from flayed Billy in the sauna in S3 - but we never see him wanting to hang out with him, seeking out his company. They didn’t keep in touch on the phone or in letters after Will moved. So, yes, honestly, I agree with you.

#not tagging this! please dni if you disagree #belle answers asks

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general-kj · 3 years

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Are you really so sure of Byler’s endgame? I’m asking this sincerely, not maliciously.

It’s just… I’ve seen this before in multiple fandoms. People read deeper and deeper into the “subtext” that just actually isn’t really there, when it’s all said and done. These ultra subtle clues that the creators are theoretically leaving just… don’t make a lot of sense. TV isn’t that subtle. The Duffers aren’t that deep.

They literally had Mike say he loves Eleven, in front of everyone. Pretty bold for this type of drama. He tried to tell her directly in the grocery store. And Eleven said I love you… and then kissed him. It’s romantic love.

I guess I just worry about people’s disappointment because while it’s fine to ship Byler, I think it’s likely going to remain a crack ship.

Hmm I cant tell whether you are actually being sincere or not because I've seen people acting like this before to try and get rid of my hope but I'm going to answer like your being sincere. I'm not a theorist so I'm not going to explain this as eloquently as others but I'm going to give it my best shot.

I'm not going to deny the fact that queer baits have been a problem in media for a very long time. But I've never been invested in those ships nearly as much as Byler because there is just something different about it. The duffers are very supportive of the LGBT community so I sincerely doubt they would do a queer bait. If anything Mileven is a straight bait, the duffers already done it once with Stobin, why cant they do it again?

This is actually a very deep show, if you've seen Kaypieces theories on things like the DID system you would know this. There is so much going on behind every action. There has to be a first time for everything and this is it. As soon as you look behind the surface level Mileven its all Byler. You could call it coincidence if we had only a few proofs but we have literally hundreds.

Lets talk about specifics now for a bit. In s3 I believe Mike uses El as a beard, he may not be aware he's doing it but he is. Mileven start of the season by kissing to cant fight this feeling anymore which is about someone falling for their friend, El wasn't his friend as they jumped into romance too quickly. Hes only known her properly for a few months and in those few months all they have done is make out. How can you fall in love with someone if you never talk to them? Its also awfully suspicious how he removes her hands from his shoulders when she tries to touch him whilst they kissing.

Throughout s3 Mike seems to be annoyed at her, there is a large compilation of pictures of Mike pulling weird expressions at her. If that's what love is I don't want it. When the mileven breakup happened Mike again seemed more annoyed than upset and the whole scene was framed as a joke whilst the garage sequence with Will was easily the most heart breaking scene of the season. Mike didn't chase after El but he did chase after Will.

I don't think El loves Mike either. She liked the idea of him she formed whilst sitting alone in Hops cabin watching soap operas but she doesn't like the real him. She gets annoyed when Mike starts singing and shows no interest in any of his hobbies. The only interest she shows in him is the fact that he's male and was kind to her. Within minutes of breaking up with Mike she was thinking of new boyfriends. She showed more interest in the karate kid than she did in Mike. At the end of s3 she went back to Mike because she needed the stability of a relationship after losing her father figure not because she actually loved him.

At the end of s3 Mileven kissed after presumably being separated for 3 months. Mike was taken completely by surprise because he had accepted it was over as the only reason he said what he did in the cabin because he was trying to win the argument he was having and just spat it out. Mike made no effort to kiss back and kept his eyes open the entire time, they even kissed in front of a open closet whilst Wills stuffed toy was in the background for goodness sakes. Meanwhile the scene with Will was arguably more romantic with Mike worrying about Will finding another party and at the end of the season I believe Mike makes his full realisation that he's in love with Will when he cries in his mothers arms.

Mike and Will were giving each other heart eyes from the first scene of s1, they might not of realised at the time they were doing it but they were. Mike constantly considered El a weapon he could use to find Will throughout s1 and only got the idea to kiss her because Lucas kept suggesting it. In s2 he stopped calling El the second Will needed help again and he was calling El out of guilt, he made no attempt to search for her like he had Will even when he thought he saw her. The crazy together scene is iconic and I don't think I even need to go into how much of a I love you scene that is. Then there's the best thing I've ever done and the you said yes scene which sounds an awful lot like a marriage proposal.

So in conclusion, both El and Mike are using each other in different ways whilst Mike is in love with Will. There is so much more I can talk about but I will save it for now. There are so many instances that have no hetero explanation like Mike and Wills reaction to the lingerie store and the sauna compared to Lucas's. The only things Milevens can come up with in return is that they kissed and said I love you. If you think that equals love god help you. Mileven is a toxic relationship and I'm glad the duffers aren't romanticising toxic relationships like other tv shows have in the past.

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #byler is endgame #ask

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kaypeace21 · 4 years

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So you're saying that the Duffers did a "bad season" on purpose? I'm all for theories, but why on earth would they do that??

No , that’s not what I’m saying! I’m saying just like how they made fun of mileven in s2 (they did so even more in s3). They showed all the romantic relationships that aren’t going to be endgame as dysfunctional . And they gave the fans “everything they wanted” (by showing how bad their ideas are- ie ships , evil russians, el is the ‘chosen one’ who is over reliant on Mike) while still forwarding the narrative . Aka mileven is bad and inhibits the growth of Mike and el .So let’s show how it’s bad for el by reversing all her character development from s2 .Aka El saying “friends don’t lie”-to lying to her friends to suck face with Mike (and have Lucas even call her out saying “they’re lying”). And have El who tried to escape the cabin all of s2 to see her friends - willing stay isolated in the cabin to be with mike (and ignore all her friends for 6 months). Let’s also have mike go from team leader to inhibiting their plans and fighting with the team - except when Mileven was fighting and mike made the sauna plan. And have Mike pretend not to like d&d until the end when talking with Will and when mileven is broken up. Let’s have Mike also never apologize for lying , and compare him to controlling Hopper who says people are “corrupting her” , while the gals (max and Joyce) say both don’t respect El’s ability to make “decisions”. And just compare mileven to Hopper/El like we did in s2.And compare mileven to stancy in multiple ways- like calling both relationships “bullshit”. And have El spy on Mike when they’re broken up and never apologize for it (like how the song they danced to in s2 “every breath you take’ is about a stalking ex gf). Etc.

Let’s reference “never ending story” as a reference of El being an alter and the “false chosen one” like the child hero atreyu in the movie. “Atreyu (who was deemed the ‘chosen one) is knocked into the sea of possibilities. There he wakes on the shore of abandoned ruins. There Gmork (The Mindflayer) reveals himself, having been lying in wait. And then latches his jaws onto Atreyu’s leg.” Aka just like El- who by the way didn’t save any of the 30 + people cause they all relied on her to be the chosen one. Instead of actually relying on team work- like prior seasons. She lost her powers and the team had to save her in the end.

The Empress in the story later tells Atreyu, that despite being told he was the chosen one (he never was). And that it was always Bastian (Will) who was the chosen one -that could save them, all along! “Bastian (Will) is a shy-outcast (with a bowel cut) raised by a single parent, and teased by bullies from school. The book Bastian starts to read, describes the fantasy world of Fantasia which is slowly being devoured by a malevolent force called “The Nothing (the upside down- the Duffers originally called it ‘the nether’).And the empress says Atreyu’s (El’s) story, and “others” (the rest of the st cast) are following Bastian’s (Will’s) story all along, making them all part of his neverending story. Aka like how Will’s d&d campaign foreshadows all of s3. The Empress tells Bastian that he has the power to save them using his imagination since he created everything in the first place .*Bastian even temporarily goes evil after he loses his memories (just like Will).

And like I mentioned in my DID theory post- the cartoonish Russians are one of many constructs of Will’s mind that came to life. Why they’re so over the top. And while discussing the mf they alluded to the darker story of trauma that connects back to Will & Lonnie - like Jon checking Lonnie’s trunk for Will/ the mf throwing people in trunks, “bad screams vs good screams”,“stay still it’ll all be over soon”, the tub parallels. Having the d&d story Will wrote connect to the whole plot of s3 . And also connecting the Russians , hopper, and kali/el, to the mf. And I also explained why the mf pretended to ignore Will in s3.

The st production workers , in a netflix podcast criticized Erica’s pro capitalism comments saying they were (”like a sociopathic veep character”). At the s4 video store they have a poster of “the coco cola boy’ ( an anti corporate/ anti coke film). Specifically about coke affecting small town businesses - and the film also being an allegory of American imperialism . And we see how (on the 4th of July) the mall affected small business in s3- and the mall (aka big business) which was controlled by the ‘villains’/corrupt mayor were burned to the ground at the end of the season.

In s2 , Max criticized the s1 story while talking to Lucas- in a very meta way (saying about s1/lucas’ story. “ I really liked it. I mean, I had a few issues. I just felt it was a little derivative in parts. I just wish it had a little more originality, that’s all.” So lucas has a similar scene but for s3.Lucas says “new coke” (which was hated by pretty much everyone at the time of its release) is better than the original coke and the whole cast disagrees with him . In April 1985, Coca-Cola decided to change its recipe, abandoning what we now know as Coca-Cola Classic for a new flavor that was not well-received. Known as “new coke”(shown all over s3). Aka- the new upbeat setting of s3 which also takes place in 1985 (who’s plot , ships, and characterization appeared shallow on the surface). It’s a meta commentary of what they were expecting people would say about s3 , which also takes place in 1985 . (Aka s1-2 are better than s3, on the surface). If you take everything at face value and don’t look behind the surface you will not like s3 as much (examples being)- the pro corporatism/ pro America stuff when the US gov used to be villains,or if you don’t realize how/why the chemical plots of the Russians/mf connect , or if you actually know what a healthy relationship looks like and saw the dysfunction of all the couples, or simply noticed the ‘plot holes’ of El being the ‘chosen one ‘ -the mf being was supposedly after since s1 , creates. Aka mf chased and posessed Will at school, when El was also at the school at the same time as Will/mf. But the mf ignored her at school, and instead the whole year he stalked Will . And he even said he wanted to kill everyone but Will last season -to supposedly wanting to kill everyone including Will. So when Lucas disagrees (saying the NEW coke/the NEW season is better than the original ) the whole cast glares at him in disbelief , saying “What?!”And Mike argues with Lucas saying he’s “insane” . And El (the ‘chosen one’ of that season) angrily cuts their argument short. They even say coke vs new-coke is “the same concept” as comparing the original ‘The thing’ movie (s1-2) with it’s remake ( s3/NEW season).Right before El says to stop fighting about it.

Duffers gave the fans what they wanted on the surface all under the guise of pro America corporatism on the 4th of July (and hid the real stuff behind the surface) all while getting money from coke while dissing it. And criticizing pro-americana capitalism. Even s3 being advertised as the “summer of love” is a diss cause ‘summer loves’ are flings that don’t last after the summer (aka after s3) . I talked about all the evidence of why certain pairings (jopper, jancy, mileven, and lumax) are probably not endgame here. But, just looking at coke. Karen drinks newcoke while looking at billy. Mike drinks newcoke when complaining about el. max/el spun a newcoke bottle while spying on their then exes . Jopper drank new coke together. El being experimented on has been associated with coke since s1. Steve in s1 even puts coke on his black eye when talking about Nancy. And we know s3 compared mileven to stancy constantly. Lucas drank new coke and said it was awesome even when historically almost everyone in the 80s hated the new formula. The pairings advertised in the official “romantic” new-coke commercial were lumax, mileven, Karen/billy, and Steve/ some random girl named Tracy. And prior to season 3, Coke was always given a negative context, mostly being associated with the inhuman experimenting on El . (El in s1 has a ptsd flashback after seeing a coke beach -summer esque-commercial and then thinking of the time Brenner forced her to crush the coke can.) And they showed that s1 flashback in s3 , when El tries crushing a new-coke-can she found in the “trash” , and realizes unlike s1 she can’t anymore).

#stranger things #stranger things meta

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mikewhecler · 4 years

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no offense but i kinda hate the narrative that mike was being controlling...almost for the sake of being controlling i guess? like i don’t really think he’s a controlling person, or that he was being controlling in season three. i think he understands in a way that no one else there can, that el is a sacrificial person. she believes that everything that happened (will’s abduction, the mind flayer, etc etc) is her fault, and she wants to make it right. she believes she’s the monster. so she will do anything to put a stop to it all -- whether that means disappearing into oblivion, closing the gate, or searching for and fighting billy.

and don’t get me wrong! she has every right to make sacrifices. it’s her body, her powers, her life at stake. but she shouldn’t be the only one making sacrifices and solving problems, and other characters shouldn’t be solely relying on her to fix everything! she talked down billy with nothing but her words, something max probably could’ve done (and tried to do!) if she knew what to say like el did.

but the thing is -- mike was right. it’s not like he doesn’t trust her powers, like i’ve seen people say (he came up with the sauna test, a plan that relied on el’s powers!), but there is a limit. and yes, el understands her limits, no one said she didn’t! but i think she just doesn’t care. she is such a loving, sacrificial, selfless person that she’ll do whatever she can to save everyone, no matter the cost. mike understands that in a way that max and nancy can’t, simply because they don’t know her like he does! he knew her in season one, was there at the quarry and the school, and has spent every day for six months with her. his priority, at the end of the day, is keeping el safe. he can’t lose her. he never says she can’t use her powers -- he has no problem with it when she’s slamming doors, making toys move, even using them to stop billy in the sauna. but it gets to be a problem when it starts to look like 1983 again -- everyone is just sitting and watching her fix everything, and that ends with him losing her.

and also? even if we ignore the whole argument about her powers, mike proves over and over again that he wants to keep el safe. that’s it. he saves her in the sauna, in the cabin, holds her hand and holds her up throughout the mall, lunges at billy to protect her, you can even hear him saying “i’m just trying to protect el” while nancy is calling around asking about rats in 3x06! his issue isn’t with the use of her powers, or the fact that he doesn’t trust them -- no, it’s with the fact that everyone else is abusing her selfless nature and her powers. you know who else abused her powers with no regard for her safety or her limits, power-wise or principle-wise? brenner and kali.

and i’m not comparing max and nancy to brenner and kali -- not at all. max is a victim of abuse and would never treat someone like that. i understand. but at the same time, el’s leg was torn open with blood gushing down, and she still got up and subdued the mind flayer at the cabin! and not twenty minutes later, max and nancy are once again saying that they have to depend on her for help. lucas couldn’t have distracted the russians by - i dunno - making a balloon pop with his slingshot, providing an escape route for the scoops troop? that could’ve worked! but who did they go right to -- el. and later, when they’re trying to move the car, el volunteers to move it (though she just had a makeshift surgery preformed on her maybe a half hour earlier), and who’s the only one to protest? mike! and when el can’t do it, they’re forced to come up with another solution, proving they didn’t even need to try to use el’s powers in the first place!

and i don’t even get why there’s an argument, because at the end of the day, he was literally right. you can argue about his principle, or you can disagree about how he talked to max, or whatever, but el lost her powers from using them too much. he lost her. he told everyone that she was going to get hurt, and no one listened! and it frustrates me that he’s being played off as some kind of bad, controlling boyfriend when he was just simply worried about her. he was worried for her safety, just like he was in season one, and two, and now three. i don’t understand why, after the season came out, there was all of a sudden this narrative and opinion that mike was controlling, when that’s just always how he’s been. he’s always out for everyone’s safety, whether it’s el’s, or dustin’s, or will’s. mike is a selfless person who cares about his friends, but when el is the one he cares about, it seems like that’s the issue with a lot of fans.

tl;dr: mike wasn’t controlling, he was just right. he trusts el’s powers, and he trusts and cares about el, but she shouldn’t be the only one who has to carry the burden of the upside down and all of its consequences, and to me it seems like he’s the only one that understands that.

#asdfghjkl this is so out of pocket #but this has literally been on my mind since the season came out #mike wheeler #mileven #stranger things #this is so all over the place #i'm so sorry

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