online queer spaces (aka tik tok) can be so fucking dumb sometimes. like, in real life 20 year old and 40 year old dykes are making out at the bar and it’s fine. trans men and trans masc people will go to lesbian bars and it will be normal and acceptable to see them there. lesbians will fuck trans people (trans masc and femme people) and the world won’t end. someone at the gay bar will be wearing kink gear and no one will bat an eye. dykes will have moustaches and stubble and will be wearing a labrys and people are gonna fuck who they want and not fuck who they don’t want and that’s literally ok. being a part of a community means you will meet people who are different and who don’t fit your strict fucking rules of what is “acceptable” and what isn’t. and i feel badly for people who don’t understand what it’s like to live in a real-life community. let queer people be messy and confusing, no one in the real world cares.

FFXIV Forum

Fuck it, let's try again.

Some time ago I created a forum that didn't stay lively for very long, unfortunately, but I don't want to give up on it as I think forums offer something that no other tool for online community can offer: an actual community that doesn't rely on everyone acting like their own PR/marketing team.

So here it is, in case anyone's interested:

What does it have to offer?

A place to meet artists and roleplayers from the FFXIV fandom, where you won't be assailed by notifications like a Discord server, that's LGBTQ-friendly and won't ask you to post all the time to remain visible (contrary to social media).

What you'll find:

RP sections for your RP threads, easier to manage than on Tumblr, and without the pressure of being seen online on Discord because you wanted to talk to your friends but aren't in the mood for RP

A place to get help to create your character or write an NPC, if you're feeling insecure and want to try your hand at writing/roleplaying

Galleries for your writing, fanarts, screenshots, irl craft, etc. where you don't have to worry about peak hours to be seen

Forums where you can gush about your own characters and get asked questions: no need to have a big following anymore!

A place where you can discuss the lore and share your meta analysis to your heart content

A place to organize your own in-game event and promote it, once again without needing to build a big enough following for it to be noticed!

Yes, there's a NSFW section (that you have to ask to get access to). Forumactif—the host—is not in favor of this, however, so if Etheirys has enough success I might consider hosting it myself (but I'm not rich so we'll start with the free alternative for now and just keep it on the low XD)

And more!

I am taking suggestions to improve it and I'll gladly help you and answer your questions if you're not familiar with forums (or this sort of forums, anyways).

For those who don't know me or find me intimidating to talk to (I know it has happened) I've been leading communities big and small for about 18 years now, and I've always put a big emphasis on fairness, communication and patience.

(Please reblog so more people can see this!)

Alterhumanity in the Family

Our youngest sister has started saying that she's a therian online. She showed us this by commenting that we're in the same Roblox group (an alterhuman one) after she asked to see what groups we were in and it's also written in her bio. We've since talked a little bit about her theriotype.

Now... This is cool and all, we've always wanted someone to relate to in the family. Regardless of if she sticks with the identity or not, it's nice and the things she's said make it seem like she sees her identity as past life based so it seems about as serious as we were when we were that young. It's good for her that she would have someone to relate to growing up as well if she needs it, we weren't fortunate enough to have that.

This brings some extra complications though.

Our family has proven to be anti-alterhuman. At one point, one of our other siblings who is a bit older than the therian one was mocking furries in the living room with everyone around. The father asked what a furry is, and she explained that it is "people who want to be animals" to which we tried to interject and talk about how it's an art and community/fandom thing and not about literally being an animal, but we were ignored. She cut us off and then started talking about her "friend" who "thinks she's a therian" which means "thinks she's part animal", to which our conservative christian father said to "declaw her" and "if she thinks she's an animal, treat her like one and put her in the shelter". I don't even know how they got to those insults immediately, I guess they're the common ones for a reason? But from that, we decided that we wouldn't talk about being a furry let alone being alterhuman around them ever because the fight would be more hassle than anything good that could possibly come of it--they already ignored us once about it, they're likely to brush us off again.

So, yeah. It's an issue. We know what this house is like, and we know the parents have already mocked her for things that as far as they know is just playing pretend. Hell, it could be only playing pretend and nothing more and we'd still see this as an issue.

We're open about alterhumanity elsewhere IRL, just not in our own home due to the cons outweighing the pros, but now we have someone to defend. It's a case of regardless of whether she's playing pretend or not, right now, she is using the label and doesn't deserve to be mocked for it--serious identity or not. So we're at the point where we're mentally preparing ourselves to actually speak up whenever is necessary. We want to support her as best we can with anything at all, really, but this situation in particular hits close to home for us and we don't want her to feel as lonely as we did.

I know she's young and even if the parents end up listening to us, they'll dismiss her based on how young she is. They do it with LGBT+ identities, this will be no better. But we knew when we were that young, and regardless of if she "grows out of it" or not, she deserves respect. We're going to try our best to get it for her, as scary as it is.

listen. my post about being shat on on the internet for advocating for a word to describe the specific ways transphobia and misogyny and queer discomfort with masculinity intersected for me is going around quite a bit more than i thought it would when i first made it to vent so I want to add for anyone who like, comes to see what else i've got going on:

i should have specified that i also didn't get to have that community also because i was isolated offline and the internet was my only option for queer communuty in my 20s, and there was so much infighting happening that it simply wasn't a good place to look for such things. i was intentionally isolated from everyone except my abuser for the first few years, and unintentionally isolated by my disabilities for the last several years. the internet did not reach out and snatch those opportunities away from me, it simply failed to be a replacement for what i couldn't have elsewhere.

this was never the fault of transfems, this was never the fault of other queer people. this was and always will be the fault of people of all stripes being jackasses on the internet. while these experiences Do translate offline, far more often than not other queer people offline do not have the time or energy to spare to be shitstains to other queer people of Any type, because we're all too busy trying to live in whatever way is going to be safest for us.

yeah, ive had shitty experiences with irl transfems. i've had shitty experiences with irl transmascs too. their queerness was not the cause of that, they were just shitty people. everyone does unfortunately have an equal opportunity to be an awful person. had i had the opportunity to be more involved in offline communities, this would not have been such an issue for me personally.

so like. support the people in your community. block people who piss you off online instead of engaging. spend that energy on something useful instead, like being a person who is enjoyable to be around, so that you can build that community for yourself. it's out there. yes your experiences are real and you should be able to talk about them but also you can just block the people who refuse to listen or who deliberately misinterpret you, i promise, because they are never going to be part of your community anyways.

peace

Getting really discouraged and angry about the horribly violent amount of mspec lesbian hate, no matter how many times I make a concise argument I'll have people sending hate and even attacking my own identity

Any advice on how to at least not get so upset when I see it and walk away?

hello! sure!

almost all of that type of rhetoric is online. people are using the anonymity of the internet to say whatever they want. they will be aggressive and target people who are proudly themselves because the internet allows them a cheap way to attack people they don't like with little repercussion

it doesn't make them right, it just makes them aggressive and pushy. it's an ahistorical claim that makes no sense, as bisexual lesbians and gays have always been a part of the queer communities, our movements, our politics and our activism. we've always been here and we're not going away any time soon

i would say just try to remind yourself that you're dealing with bullies and someone you're not going to win with even if you try to argue with them. you're never going to convince them of your side of things because they are more concerned about making you feel bad than they are about having an intelligent discussion. if you respond you're giving them what they want- they just want attention, and to frustrate and distract you from what's actually important to you

you don't have to walk away and instantly love yourself for who you are, but block accordingly, disengage from those arguments the second you see them, don't instantly fly into defending the concept of mspec lesbians, just disengage and later on try to put energy toward positivity if you want to, or distract yourself with something different altogether. it's up to you what you do, if you want to spread positivity and pride, go ahead, but it's also important to distance yourself from discourse and take time to just live as yourself

most people you meet in irl queer spaces don't act like this and don't instantly jump to harassing you for having a complex identity or supporting those who do. it's just the online aspect that makes it easy for bullies to be loud. they are normally very spineless in real life. hope that helps! take care, stay safe

Hi Sara! You are wise and cool and I'd appreciate advice if you have any! I am trying to make friends especially with fellow autistic people in real life but it is very very hard and scary also I don't know how to find people who want friends. Do you have any advice? (Please only answer if you want to!)

Thank you Ghostly!! 🙏 You are so valid - it *is* hard and scary to make irl friends!! (... Online friends too, tbh)

I don't know if I have any helpful advice, but I'll try!

I think what's worked best for me is to meet people in contexts that are related to specific, niche interests. I'm not entirely sure I have any IRL friends anymore who are only autistic, I do have a bunch who are both autistic and have ADHD though. And all of them, I've met through various kinds of special interests.

For example, several people in my TTRPG group are neurodiverse. How did I meet them? I happened to sit next to a guy I'd never spoken to before while at a work lunch, and we got to talking fantasy books (... I don't really remember how), which got us into RPG talk, which eventually led to him asking me by the end of the lunch whether I'd like to join the TTRPG group that he and some of his friends were starting up soon. That was 3,5 years ago, and we're still playing together to this day!

Another, I met through Magic: The Gathering - we were going to the same weekend event (not related to MtG) and I saw him post in a thread about looking for people to play some games with, so I replied to him, and we pretty much clicked right away because it turned out we had lots of other similar interests as well.

A third, I got to know through playing social deception games at yet another event, in which we sort of fell into a banter-y jargon while trying to convince everyone else to vote out the other. (We were both the wild cards in every game, because I had a habit of grinning wildly and looking generally untrustworthy regardless of which role I was given, and he had an absolutely straight face regardless and was really hard to read, so we pretty quickly identified each other as friendly rivals.) Then I figured out he lived in the same city as I did, and my train was cancelled, so I used my Charisma™ to hitch a ride with him and his dad back home :D

... So based on my own experiences, it seems I've mostly met other neurodiverse people through various kinds of games, which is one of my great passions in life! Depending on what your interests are, maybe there are events, groups or such that you could be on the lookout for? Sort of like it usually happens on Tumblr I guess, but IRL it's a bit harder since you have to do more work and research to find those places and communities.

The thing is though, it will always be scary. The first time I went to play with the TTRPG group, I was super scared. I barely said anything during the first hour or so, and even after several sessions, it still took some time each time to get back into it and relax. But I always have a lot of fun while playing, and I know they appreciate having me there, so that makes it easier to relax and not worry so much. It was the same thing with the MtG friend - I rewrote that first message sooo many times, and then had a racing heart by the time I went to meet up with him. The trick for me has been to recognise when it's worth pushing through that discomfort, and try to be accepting of the fact that sometimes it won't work out, but sometimes it will; sometimes it will lead to amazing friendships, but sometimes it will fizzle out or face plant before it could even start. And that's fine.

It gets easier with time in my experience, but it never gets easy. I've sort of had to accept that I usually don't make a great first impression. It's not that I make a bad impression, I just don't think I make much of an impression at all - I probably seem more shy than I really am, and sometimes my fears make me behave really awkwardly. But after a couple times, as I start to relax and get more comfortable being myself, I think I can make a really really good impression! And I stress a little less about first impressions when I remind myself of that.

Oh, and one more thing: I've personally found that it's a lot easier to meet new people if they are there by themselves. People who already hang out in groups are much harder to approach. Because of this reason, actually, I tend to avoid going to places together with my friends if my aim is to meet new people. It means I won't have the comfort and safety of my friends with me, but it increases the likelihood that I'll approach people I wouldn't have talked to others - or that they will approach me! (The friend I met through social deception games is the opposite, though. He says the comfort of having friends with him makes him more relaxed and confident, which makes it easier for him to meet new people.)

to be fair I think the reason why people think you're anti kink is because you said you find edgeplay morally wrong even when done in private between older adults

(unironically would be super interested to hear your reasoning behind that! I didn't totally agree with your original post but I do think your perspective is interesting and valuable and I'd love to know more about what you think)

Simulating rape, pedophilia, and racism will always be morally grey if not outright wrong. And its not fair bc i outright said in my post I dont always strive to prevent edgeplay even at the dungeon because it happened before I was born itll happen after I die. I dont like people who post about it constantly and publiclly and try and encourage the habit in others. None of this is anti kink. Its just me having standards and expectations for safe kink. Someone privately doing this things is unstoppable, people seeking out young people and vulnerable partners online and irl consistently to fufill the most taboo extreme kinks is dangerous and you should question that and anyone whose telling you its common. Most kink isnt like this.

Other forms of edgeplay are much more acceptable to me but again I would never tolerate the normalization of dangerous and extreme play. Again, anyone minimizing needle play, gun play, blood play, hell even suspension does NOT have your interest at heart. Its not about limiting peoples fun but theres a reason the predators at a kink club are the people who will do anything with you. These are dangerous and high risk activities that people spend lots of time getting safe (as safe as you can be) and prepared for. They dont just do it with anyone. Again, these kids online probably arent actually doing it, but theyre being encouraged to normalize the extreme and have nothing sacred. If they ever participate in irl theyre a liability to themselves and others.

Safe players are people who question why they why wanna particpate in certain kinks. Sexuality isnt an excuse to romantisize the harm of others. Any kink thats simulating something literal to me has the potential to be dangerous to someones morality and those around them. Sexualizing the REAL clothing and activities of children. Sexualizing and fetishizing the REAL abuse of rape victims and black people. It is DANGEROUS. Im never going to advocate for it, make explicit spaces for it, or justify it. Theres people that do these things its hard to ignore and its mever going away but ultimately like I said stark difference between having a public blog creating a community and culture around it, vrs ppl in their private lives being fringe. I admit and reliquish control over that. I just steer clear of it. Im even a CNC player myself- a term which was bastardized online to b code for rape play- I dont engage in rape play. I make sure my scenes frankly cant even at a distance be interpeted that way bc why would I want to draw that link in my mind? I also never advocate for CNC for most players. Its risky and unsafe. Theres riskier types of play in my personal risk profile, but for example having a scene while high, thats edgeplay. Id never normalize or encourage a community around that. Ive done it, and its consensual non consent, because were honoring I could never give true consent while high, so I give it while Im sober the hours before. That is risky play though, what if I green out? What if my high isnt what I expected and I regret my scene the next day? Etc. So yea Im not outright against edgeplay, I just literally like I said, cant always say I always condone extreme kink esp rape play, age play, and race play. Not to b dismissive but its fascinsting to me that in my time coming into BDSM this is somehow a interesring or unqiue viewpoint.

What you get off to is just as much a representation of your values than say knowing its bad to enjoy watching extremely racist television. You guys understand that moral grey area around that but cant understand why using extreme hits of dopamine during sex might normalize these things ? Again it is an abadon and recklessness in the pursuit of pleasure. Individualism to the max. If it feels good surely its okay? Fuck everyone else, it gets you off right?

i love (/sarc) how there's so little safe space for CDD systems.

Tumblr? Syscourse left and right, and if you don't like it? Might as well leave because half the time it's not fucking tagged.

Twitter? I don't know whats it's like on there and I don't even think I want to!

Tiktok? So rabid with fakeclaiming and drama it's genuinely unsafe.

YouTube? Any system who dare to have a channel is someone you can't search up withing a "[channel] fake proof" autofill or pages or videos calling out their every flaw

IRL? HAH good fuckin LUCK.

???

Personal venting below the cut

Tiktok and YouTube are the examples that make us sick to our stomach the hardest. Amnesia makes it hard to assume but I'm pretty sure online system spaces played a huge part in our so called "system reset" (a period of all previously existing alters dissociating themselves and their identities into fuckall until we could accept ourself again). We didn't have any space to exist as a system irl, so what could we find online? Even with the more casual system yt channels, ones that made us feel safe and seen as someone who can just live life, there's a suffocating weight in trying to watch them as everywhere around you is people trying to shove proof in your face of everyone malingering. Truth is, I've hardly ever watched these proof videos because idk it's...clear that most of the time those videos aren't for the community, they're ammunition suppliers.

Maybe you decide "YouTube feels too detattched from the community, maybe something like tiktok would be more engaging." Bitch the only difference is that you feel more personally involved and people aren't always going game theory on their fakeclaiming. Instead there's weekly drama, "system red flag lists", a restraining fear of being posted to hateful cringe sites for literally anything, and AGAIN hurt and hate everywhere you fucking turn!

And I know maybe I should just "touch grass and interact with REAL systems if I want community so badly", but please enlighten me as to how I, a minor-bodied undiagnosed system, am supposed to effectively achieve that. Not to say it's impossible to have irl system friends, but I have none currently and no way to actively seek them out. I shouldn't be denied community for the crime of wanting it.

And I fear that this post will be met with someone telling me I'm too young for online system spaces. First off, you don't know my exact age, you honestly in the grand scheme of things don't know anything about me. Secondly, I do have a good understanding of online safety as far as I can tell. Thirdly, you think I don't think about that? In fucking system spaces you think I don't carefully evaluate my participation and inclusion and stuff? I'm practically forced to if I want to keep my wits about me! Fourthly, as I just fucking said, I shouldn't be denied community for the crime of wanting it.

For those who want to finally open up about their plurality to their own friends and families for multiple reasons, but don't know how to do it or know who is safe opening up to, heres the guide for you coming from my experience!

For irl people

Skim the person's attitude/personality. make sure there are green flags such as: - they're open + always accept new things, and respect it - they're not prone to judging or doubting you - they're the person you genuinely feel comfy with - overall just a decent person who isn't toxic okay

Start the topic slowly. - choose one of your headmate as a representative, someone who is good with communicating and handling the situation - plan how you want to say it to ensure staying on track of what needs to be said - express how you feel to give the person a context of the situation and your overall concern about them to take it seriously - choose a good timing then say the thing you've planned and cross your fingers, you can start with something like "i thought i just had a bad memory but __ ". It's a rare chance they are educated or know the surface level in this topic (and they might even say some media depicted of plurality), so be patient since the people i've told never gets it until days or week, and to process things - if it's successful make sure you give them some articles to read because it will help them a bunch instead of you explaining from 0

Introducing your life as plurality to them. - if you live or meet them often, they will sometimes ask which person is currently out (they'll be able to memorize all the gentle hints of who is who after a long time), you can try planning ways how to let them know who is out with something obvious that you couldn't do when masking, for each person - take it slow, people usually see nothing is different as first impression but it will be when you slowly introduce your people one by one and had some conversations - i always thank them for understanding and trying to accommodate us, we also need to appreciate the huge effort you know, this is also a good time to clear up some misunderstandings about views of plurality if they have any

Profit!

For online people

Choose the right person - make sure its a person who trusts you and you trust them too - the same with the rest parts from above for flagging

Planning how to do it - you can use video call, or normal call, or do it by text - ask when its a good time to talk about something important - and all other parts from the other number 2, but done online

Introducing your life as plurality to them, but online - set up a discord server with pk/tupperbox for you and them to talk at, but we use this way since its easier - or if you don't want that you can keep your anonymity or use initials at the end of messages - you can introduce who is who by flashcards accompanied by drawing or photo reference (or picrew) but its not necessary - talking on texts means its easier for the person to misunderstand things, please talk as clear as possibles - they might be curious so be prepared for questions if they're interested in this

Also profit!!

- j

so here’s what’s been going on:

a couple days ago on July 2nd, TGC, again, retweeted fanart featuring whitewashed characters, this time white skykids. now, I’m not on Twitter much anymore, but I was that day. I was among others who commented how offensive it was for TGC to be promoting artwork that utilized this racist practice. 

at first came the usual opposition, I gave my piece, then the convo died down. thought that was the end of it. by the next day, it picked up again with an incredibly mean-spirited tone — insults, bad faith takes, attempts to shame my friends and I. it was pretty disgusting.

eventually another Twitter user reached out to me and shared a Reddit link. someone had reposted a few of our tweets without censoring our usernames to r/skychildrenoflight (an unofficial subreddit not affiliated with TGC) with full intent to mock and deride us. that post currently sits on the subreddit with over 250 upvotes and over 200 comments, the vast majority of which are so stupid, asinine, and unsurprisingly racist. it explains how the discussion picked up again — the thread had been brigaded, my friends and I were being harassed.

I’m not here to talk about why this is an instance of whitewashing and why it is bad — I have already done that, though it’s overdue for me to make a more comprehensive, eloquent write-up.

Sky is a wonderful game. I love Sky, I love the world, I have invested so much creative energy into it. I love playing music on the game. I have multiple fics in the works. I used to engage with lorechat in Skycord on the regular, enjoying sharing my thoughts and discussing theories with others there. I am always fascinated by the artwork the community produces, even started trying to draw myself. the fanart TGC retweeted the other day isn’t even that bad compositionally — the artist is incredibly talented — the problem is the whitewashing that is all too common here.

I have never been in a fandom where a disgustingly racist practice, among others, was so accepted. I have never been in a fandom that harbored bigots who were so hateful towards the kinds of people Sky normalized, that they were playing as and interacted with. this community frequently proclaims itself as welcoming, diverse, and wholesome, but those words are hollow when many perpetuate bigotry then attack those who call it out, saying “it doesn’t exist here” and “you’re making shit up to get mad at” and “your ancestors would be ashamed of you.”

on that last one, I should mention that the commentary got disgustingly personal. I stated that I was Black in the Twitter thread, which many latched on to. they said I was entitled, never faced real racism, was a child, was pulling the race card, was “the real racist,” was why Black people are not taken seriously in discourse.

I shouldn’t have to mention that I have faced racism irl, including violence, including followed by a police officer on campus in the dark that could have ended poorly. I shouldn’t have to mention the racist harassment I have faced both online and offline. I play Sky and engage with its community because the game gave me the idea that I could escape the world that hated me for one where I felt seen and welcomed. if someone was being hateful, adding more to pile of bigotry I have to fucking live with, I thought I would have the backing of the community to support me when I fought back. I was wrong.

what happened over the last couple of days exposed me to some of the worst the Sky community has to offer and it didn’t even surprise me.

it is well documented how people of color like myself are mistreated in white-dominated spaces. our discomfort is viciously denied as false or exaggerated. we are told to suck it up because fandom is supposed to be enjoyed, an escape, “don’t bring politics in here.” except fandom perpetuates the same problems we are trying to escape from. we are not given a damn break.

It's been very interesting reading your responses to all the questions about that Japanese article. You speak really well and I've enjoyed reading your POV. I find the whole discourse kind of wild because I've been in fandom for 16+ years. I'm a multishipper and I've always had a 'ship and let live' kind of view to things. There are absolutely things I'm not comfortable with reading/seeing, but the back button and block function are wonderful tools. Plus with fanfiction having such multitudinous tagging options available it's easy to avoid things I don't like.

To me something enjoyed in a fictional space has little correlation to things enjoyed in IRL spaces, but I do have understanding for peoples' reservation when encountering certain topics and being unsure how the creator stands on those topics in a non-fictional space. I try very hard to see the best in people and assume people are good until proven otherwise [and yes this has bitten me in the ass before, but I will continue on].

I'm not quite sure where I was going with this, but yes, I wanted to say thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic. I've recently returned to Tumblr after a brief stint on Twitter and it's nice to see people talking openly and calmly about things C:

Thank you! As strange as it might be to say, I'm glad the initial anon sparked the discussion at all, because this is the kind of stuff that will gnaw at me pretty often. I've been around in fandoms for over 20 years and enjoy the community aspect, part of that experience has always been in discussing what we enjoy, don't enjoy, enthusiasms, takeaways, and the thrill in the variance of opinion it all has. I love when I have a difference in opinion with somebody in fandom because I want them to have that opportunity to talk about their headcanons. It's enthusiasm! I love creating and being part of collective enthusiasm! Pretty sure that's a shared sentiment by just about anybody.

But then I see the way fandom communities have become increasingly more hostile over time, especially to differences in opinion, and I have to wonder why that is. I've got some good guesses, but then I would have to write a book.

In the event people who haven't left yet are getting sick of this talk, I'm gonna put it under a read more lmao

One thing I've seen go nearly extinct in many areas of fandom has been the concept of agreeing AND disagreeing, both at the same time, with something. I haven't really paid any words to what I disagreed about with the initial article, mostly because I was already saying so much about all that other stuff lol, but like I didn't agree with everything that was said. I had questions of my own.

Overall, I thought it was a good critical look at how I should really just say "I hate pedophiles and other types of sexual abuse" in my tumblr about page, instead of using non-words like proship or anti. I hadn't ever considered how unhelpful it might be, to overseas fandom especially, using hyperniche american slang about something so important to convey.

An outside perspective looking in on my country in a way I could never replicate, afforded me the ability to think about how we can't be compared to Japanese fandom, the artist can take the perspective of a pro shipper to mean someone who's sensible (ship and let live, as you put it) because Japan has entirely different social norms to America. I can't agree with their take on that, but I agree with their take on that at the same time. I would love to know more about the history of japanese online fandom so I could compare and contrast it with my knowledge of american online fandom. I wonder what their biggest problems are with other fans, what their "toxic fan traits" are, if any.

It also got me to think about terms like "block and ignore" or "ship and let live", and how those are sentiments I agree with in core concept, but disagree with at face value. Maybe they've become too vague, like proship and anti. Maybe it's time to change the dialogue to say we should understand that when people fetishize children, the focus is entirely on the age of those characters, how actual predators won't age characters up or talk about aged up versions of characters if their interest in those characters is the fact they're canonically underaged; or establishing that if you as a minor are having issues with seeing something dangerous, when blocking and ignoring is not enough for you as a minor to feel safe, making fandom mentors aware of the dialogue you want to have can help us set a precedent.

I have no idea how many conversations it's going to take for fandom to get to a point where we start being more analytical, but one of these days it would be nice if we could stop painting the flags unanimously red.

the online DID community is very toxic. its honestly anti healing. it hinders healing. the online DID community is all about whining about how bad DID is for you and never seeing the bright side of having alters. if we do that, we're called cringe and accused of faking. they just focus on "im dissociating so badly idk my name!" and all the other bad parts of having DID. they are so stuck on sharing every single symptom they have, and im just trying to find systems i relate to. i dont wanna hear "im so disoriented, i feel like im in a dream, i switch with blackouts like every day" when thats not even how many DID systems experience DID- greyouts happen way more often. and not everyone with DID is disoriented by dissociation every second nor do they dissociate every second. the symptom exaggeration is all anyone will see in the online DID community especially on r/DID. when i first found out i could have DID, during the diagnostic process, we joined r/DID and it caused us damage. we felt like we werent valid and self harmed so much, we couldnt wear shorts without the scars being visible for nearly two years. i thought i wasnt valid but i wanted to be, and id exaggerate symptoms the same way most of the online DID community does. i had to leave those toxic spaces to learn that people with DID dont always dissociate every living moment theyre awake, dont always dissociate severely to the point its disorienting most of the time, dont always have blackout amnesia between every switch, dont always notice signs they have it. where did i learn the information about DID that saved my life? therapists and psychologists who worked with real DID patients, and from some systems- some DID systems who were pro recovery and some endogenic systems. the online DID community has this view that you have to suffer 24/7 and hate your alters to be valid, and when i gained knowledge and was free of that group, i felt more valid and could work on healing. i fused alters more than i split them, i was able to start making an accurate timeline of what i remember, i had more memories come back and was able to process them safely. this isnt a callout on a whole community, its just a personal experience, all i see is negativity in the online DID community and that hindered our healing. some DID systems online have helped us, but its mostly been therapists and psychologists. moral of the story: dont trust everything you see online. social media doesnt accurately show how the world works. especially when it comes to mental health. a lot of people use social media to seek attention, exaggerate their real disorders for attention, or vent their frustrations when they cant safely do it irl. most of the stuff in the online DID community, including syscourse, is all influenced by emotion not by logic, so its not 100% real. its okay to not be involved in the online community for your mental disorder. its okay to take breaks from it when it gets too much to deal with. do whats right for you.

on the topic of hetalia outside of the actual show/manga, can you attest to feeling ostracized for liking it? i’ve liked it for well over a decade, and any attempts to bring it up with friends and i just get laughed at or told it’s problematic. i have actually never known anyone who has liked it either, and i really wish i did because i feel like it’d be so much more fun with others. but now it’s just this super cringe/shameful/problematic thing. well, it’s kind of always been thought of that way, and i’m not forgetting how some of the very early content was a bit tasteless, but the vast majority of hetalia is pretty tame.

i’m so glad for the fandom but i feel like i never hear about it outside of that. sorry this turned into a bit of a vent, but i feel so weird that i have to hide my interest in it so i’m not ridiculed for a lighthearted comic. i think a lot of other early 2010s fandoms get the same treatment ofc, it reminds people of their embarassing teen years. but i am too old to want to give a shit anymore lol.

are we just hiding in plain sight everywhere? kinda funny to think about

Yes, definitely. As a premise, I think I am in a bit of a weird position where I don't feel super at ease in manga/anime communities in the first place because it's actually very, very rare for me to like one. So I feel kinda like an imposter, haha. As a kid, I loved the anime they would air on TV and I especially loved the art styles, which is why I started to try and imitate them when I drew (I have drawings I made at 5-6 where some rudimental anime features were already visible, most notably inspired by the Pokémon anime). I am very easy to drop any anime or manga I try, so it really requires for all the stars and planets to align for me to actually stick to one and obsess over it :'D

For this reason, I don't really have any friend irl who shares this interest with me, and my 'nerd online presence' only rarely breaks out of the 'fandom enclosures' I live in. Though, especially in the past, I did venture more often out of my circles and had confrontations with, well, the average anime/manga fan.

I remember back when I first got into Hetalia, I saw this video some jerk took at a Con where he'd go around asking cosplayers/fans questions related to the anime/manga they liked to see if they were 'good fans' or not. I felt like the Hetalia cosplayers they found were treated the worst. First of all, they were asked history questions which is a bit tricky and unfair in the first place, because it's like going up to a Dragonball fan and ask him about Wu Cheng'en's Journey To The West rather than about Dragonball's actual content. The interviewers also had this lowkey sexist aura to them like those girls, being girls, had to prove themselves smart enough despite being basically 'hopeless fujoshis' (you know, in the original offensive and sexist meaning of 'rotten girls'). Even in the comments, those poor girls were definitely made fun of and criticized more than anyone else in the video, and it was clear as the sun that the reason was the underlying sexism that permeates the mind of many cishet male anime/manga fans when it comes to shows that have an important chunk of female audience, treating us as shallow and stupid for shipping characters or thirsting over a male character (yet they do at least twice as bad with the average big tittied dere). This was, I think 2011 or 2012, and sure those Hetalia cosplayers not answering correctly a very easy history question didn't make them look good but fuck, they were there to have a good time with their friends, they weren't at school and I can only imagine the anxiety they felt at being questioned about their history knowledge simply for deciding to go around at a con with a fake curl on their wig and wearing a cheap mockup military uniform.

The saddest thing, though, is that way too many girls also used to (probably still do) shit on it based on the fact that it has a predominantly male cast and homoerotic undertones (this kind of girl also tends to shit on BL as a genre and stuff a-la-Free! simply for being aimed at a female audience, and on the other hand they seem to only engage in series full of objectified girls. I don't understand them, it feels like internalized mysogyny or pick-me-girl mentality to me). I will show here (translated) some lines from a couple Italian negative reviews Hetalia got. These are all likely from 2009~2012 because I have looked at that page a lot since the beginning and those reviews were already there:

[Male User] [...] What's the point of making yaoi-worthy protagonists if the audience of this show will clearly be male? It's about world wars metaphors and nationalism, come on! I highly doubt the female audience for this thing is wide. [Female User] [...] You'll wonder: how come such a thing got so many fans? The answer is easy: fanservice! The sole goal of Hetalia is to create thousands of cheapish bishounen ready to be piled up and bred in the perverted fantasies of yaoi-thirsty fangirlies! That's the point. It's 50-something male characters with endless fanfiction-worthy distasteful ships, created merely to make money. [...] Do you get it, the reason behind this success is the minds of thousands mentally ill little girls who love YAOI and fantasize about it. [...]

When I initially switched fandom from Pokémon to Hetalia, I remember trying to talk about it to some online friends I had but some of them started treating me with a bit of a raised eyebrow and prejudice because I liked it. I think I also had some stranger invalidate my opinion a couple times because they recognized my Hetalia pfp and treated me like a shallow stupid fangirl whose opinon is garbage. Aaand I also remember there being some ant*-Hetalia circles where they made fun of or even actively harassed Hetalia fans online. And the reason was almost always linked to 'rotten girl' mentality, not for stuff anywhere close to what purity police and "new-gen ant*s" do today.

I absolutely get your feelings, I feel the same, I too wish I didn't feel so anxious and scared at the idea of saying that I like Hetalia, but even when I cross path irl with an anime/manga fan, I am too scared of them turning out to be one of those people to feel safe saying that Hetalia is basically the only anime/manga I love. If I ever found a Hetalia fan out in the wild I would surely reach out to them first though, haha :') (no I'm joking I still have social anxiety but I would definitely try).

Truth is, the world is still full of Hetalia fans but as you said, we tend to hide in plain sight because we're worried of crossing path with some jerk who will shame us for it for whether the classic mysogynistic reasons or the new reasons ant*s came up with.

Thanks for replying back to my message~ I do prefer private massages a bit more to start though I'm not opposed to sharing with people and collaborating things ⭐

Just to give perspective, I'm okay face to face in person with people but online I get a bit (sometimes a lotta bit) nervous, partly cause the delay time between messages can give my head time to tear apart words and color things in shades of worries.

The other issue, I have exactly 0 Puzzleshipping friends and I've not been an active part of a group for a fandom by myself ether which adds pressure, especially with those who's work I admire and really wish I could connect with. Sometimes I feel like I'm outside of group dynamics and get really self conscious but I don't want to cause someone to feel like they -have- to do something.

I used to just hang around a close friend and follow them though whatever they were into but that was years ago and I also went through some life changes. Now I'd like to be part of a community that aligns with my interests and not just stuck in my corner hoping for "some day". I came back to my very first ship here and have been delighted to see how it's evolved~ ❤️💜✨ but I also have still been in that corner, despite trying to comment. It might just me me tho, I've always been by myself in fandoms : /

It's a different kind of feeling to be inside of and participate rather than be impersonally idling and spectating as I have before. You can get sad and disheartened when you repeatedly try and feel like you can't reach ppl and yet see how easily others seem to do it. It can feel like there's something wrong with you even though you know ppl are different and things take time, but that want grows hungry when care catches and latches and can eat you instead.

I just wanted someone to understand the page that I'm on, to know why I might be awkward or missing somethings and need a gentle hand til I grow in those flight feathers, NEEDS EXP PLZ HELP LVL UP 🐦 I want to contribute worthwhile things to whether it's conversing or finally popping out art so I'll keep working attit and I appreciate you being here 🤍🌿

I hope I can give encouragement to you too~ we all need a little kindness and connection, you can come to me too if you need things🌿 You mentioned experiencing a bout of loneliness, I wouldn't mind listening, I like knowing what's going on and we have our rain and shine 🤍🤍 I'm gonna quietly hit up your inbox unless you want to communicate another way = )

I know people use discord, I've seen it but I've never been invited to use it soooo, idk entirely what to do there, you'd have to baby me on that (and I won't always be this long =P)

But thanks again for taking time with me 🌌

We can talk privately friend, that's not an issue ^.^ Feel free to slide into my dms any time!

I understand how you feel, online can be harder than irl because you don't have visual confirmation that the person is free to talk right that second, tone can be lost through just text and timezones, man, timezones. I'm in the UK, so I'm currently on GMT and at the time of responding it's 10:35am. I get you, I have friends in America who are five hours behind me, friends in Europe an hour ahead and a friend in Australia who's just plain living in the future. So finding time to talk can be hard, but we make it work ^^

I think the most important thing is to just keep those time differences in mind, and once you get to know someone better you'll likely realise patterns in when they're around, when they respond faster and when they might be sleeping. It's all a learning experience ^^

I can introduce you to a puzzleshipping server on discord full of lovely people if you like. It's a big server, I won't lie sometimes I get overwhelmed by how big it is, but you can sit quietly in there and just see what people are saying or you can be more active, there's no obligation either way. I know that sometimes we all just need someone to take us to those places where likeminded people are, and just hold our hand a little. We'll sort it in dms <3

My friend, I understand exactly how you feel and you're very much not alone. You're doing something amazing talking about how you feel because that shit is hard. So fucking hard, but look at you, doing it anyway. I've tried to interact with other people, sometimes those interactions just don't go the way I'd like. I've been ignored, talked over and made to feel like I don't belong and believe me when I say that we're not the only ones. It's easy to let those interactions prevent you from trying again, but you're trying again right now and I hope that this time it'll be different for you.

In regards to your other ask- Loneliness can be felt whether you're surrounded by people or not. You could have 100 friends and still feel lonely. You could get 1000's of likes on a post and still feel lonely. Loneliness is not exclusive to any particular set of circumstances, so you're not being ungrateful, you're being honest in how you feel and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I'll wait for your message <3 <3

really appreciated in tags of a post abt autism you talked about lower functioning people. wish there was more discussion wrt that end too.

i was diagnosed w autism at like 5 but my mom refused to let the school know, which honestly? a good thing. special ed was absolutely trash here, all my friends were in those classes looking at the same books for four years straight and not even allowed to try to leave home at 18.

my cousin was diagnosed w autism at 3, spoke her first words at age 9, and will never be allowed to live independently. and if i talk abt things she and i have in common it seems to make both sides uncomfortable, the people who talk about being high functioning and the people who think only of nonverbal children when autism comes up.

i don't have a point to what I'm saying i just keep talking sorry but she's always seemed so much like me and it messes w me how some people we know act like shes more like a pet than a person. but if i bring her up w other high functioning people theyre changing the subject or getting defensive abt being autistic enough. so im just not allowed to think about her and i in the same boat it feels like

I don't have much to add here really, except to say...yeah.

I've met people with asd diagnoses across the spectrum...and I've known a few people IRL who at the time had asperger's diagnoses (that's now a defunct label, it's all considered autism since dsm 5). but I feel like, at least offline, I've met far more autistic people with a more severe presentation- some nonverbal, some with significant intellectual disability, and plenty who will always require care and aids. these people are just not represented at all in online autism discourse, it's like they don't have a voice or don't exist.

I don't know if this translates perfectly, but I know from a good friend of mine who's an active disability rights activist that there is a significant like...almost hierarchical issue within the disabled community, where the less significantly disabled tend to dominate the conversation, and those who are more disabled and require a lot more help, assistance, and support tend to get shut out. part of this may be a function of literally not being able to access even supposedly disability friendly spaces, and part of it is probably ableism. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing is happening within the autism community too. That said, I'm not autistic myself, so...my knowledge is limited.

I wasn't really going to post on this because I feel like every time I try to speak up it just ends in in-fighting, but then I thought about how much this sentiment makes ME feel othered in my own spaces so. I know I'm not the only one.

There's a post going around with thousands of notes talking about how top/bottom dynamics are not personality traits, and the tone implies that only like... clueless fandom/online people think that.

And I'm just blown away because it makes me think: Have y'all ever installed grindr on your phone or gone to an irl gay meet up? Do you spend time with meatspace gays??

The idea that top/bottom is a personality trait is yes, an overstating of something but what it comes down to is that historically people have used their presentation to communicate things to other gay people without words. Why is that? Because the more we would talk about these things, the more likely someone would snitch, we'd get snatched up or reported to police or what have you.

And who gets hurt by the "BUT THESE ARE STEREOTYPES" the most? Same people as always. The femmes. Suddenly, what has been our signal to other gays, NOT TO PEOPLE OUTSIDE of the community necessarily fuck them-- is considered a bad stereotype assigned to like, fangirls writing fanfic badly, haha, look at those poor sad misinformed girls. Shut up lmao

The fact of the matter is, that top/bottom/vers -- whatever term you identify with, is often exactly that. A personal identifier that you want other people IN YOUR COMMUNITY to be able to pick up on. This is why we have shit like the hanky code. I'm not sitting here telling you that every man who likes to perform drag or is just gender-non-conforming is a bottom. But many, and I mean MANY do use that as a way to signal it. For every 'bad stereotype' you point at, there are a thousand gay men who are just like that stereotype. No matter how much you personally do not like it. Get your no fats no femmes shit out of my face lol.

Every time you try to 'educate' people as if the norm in the IRL meatspace gay community is supposedly 'vers' as some neutral default, you open the door for more intense policing of gender non conforming men even if that is not your intention. This issue is not something that you can paint with a wide brush. Your personal experience is NOT my personal experience. Maybe you happen to have come up in a gay community where vers was a neutral default. However that is not even close to the common experience out there in the world for gay folk.

I need to go on to say that even in gay communities where this is the norm, we deal with grindr profiles that regularly include "No femmes, no fats, no Asians" etc. and-- maybe you're saying "this is proof my neutral defalt vers thing is better/right" well. Okay maybe yeah on paper! But that doesn't change that gays who are not terminally online are not. some neutral state of vers by default.

Tl;dr: hard immutable top/bottom preferences that inform a person's gender presentation, manner of speech, mode of dress etc. Are. Very common. In fact, in my lived experience in gay bars and gay spaces IRL away from the internet, I'd say they're the norm. Calling femme gay men who speak with a lisp bad stereotypes harms all gay men.

Stop saying I'm a 'bad stereotype' because someone shipped your preferred pairing in a way that wasn't ~~subversive~~ enough for you. You preferring the tall masculine dude in lingerie getting topped by the twink is not progressive. It's your preference. You liking it doesn't make it somehow better. Y'all need the word heteronormative taken away from you too. A gay couple cannot be heteronormative. That's not what the word was coined for. Stop acting like your preference is somehow morally prescriptive and stop acting like that's some kind of activism. End of.