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breelandwalker · 8 months

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PODCAST RECS - Debunking and Fact-Checking for Witches & Witchcraft Spaces

A collection of podcast episodes fact-checking, debunking, or just providing some clarity on modern myths, misinformation, and conspiracy theories that are frequent flyers in witchcraft and pagan spaces, both theories mistakenly touted by community members and some of the utter drivel spouted by non-witches that still affects us today. Check out these shows on your favorite podcast app!

(Updates to be made whenever I find new content. There will be some crossover with my Witches In History Podcast Recs post and some of the content will be heavy. Blanket trigger warning for violence, abuse, bigotry, sexism, antisemitism, and mistreatment of women, queer people, and children.)

[Last Updated: Dec 29, 2023]

This post is broken into three basic sections:

Historical Misinformation

Modern Myths and the People Who Create Them

Conspiracy Theories and Moral Panics

List of Cited Podcasts, in alphabetical order

American Hysteria

BS-Free Witchcraft

Dig: A History Podcast

Hex Positive

Historical Blindness

History Uncovered

Occultae Veritatis

Our Curious Past

Ridiculous History

Stuff You Missed In History Class

The History of Witchcraft

Unobscured

You’re Wrong About…

Historical Misinformation

General History of Witchcraft

Historical Blindness - A Rediscovery of Witches, Pt 1 & 2 Oct 13, 2020 & Oct. 27, 2020 A discussion of the early modern witch craze and the myths, misconceptions, and theories about witches spread by academics. Topics of discussion include the works of Margaret Murray and Charles Leland, the founding of Wicca, the emergence of the midwife-witch myth, and folk healers as targets of witchcraft accusations. Sarah Handley-Cousins of “Dig: A History Podcast” supplies guest material for both episodes.

Hex Positive, Ep. 36 - Margaret Effing Murray with Trae Dorn July 1, 2023 Margaret Murray was a celebrated author, historian, folklorist, Egyptologist, archaeologist, anthropologist, first-wave feminist, and the first woman to be appointed to the position of lecturer in archaeology in the UK. So why so we get so annoyed whenever her name is mentioned in conversations about witchcraft? Well, it all has to do with a book Margaret wrote back in 1921...which just so happened to go on to have a profound influence on the roots of the modern witchcraft movement.

Nerd & Tie senpai and host of BS-Free Witchcraft Trae Dorn joins Bree NicGarran in the virtual studio to discuss the thoroughly-discredited witch-cult hypothesis, Murray's various writings and accomplishments, and why modern paganism might not have caught on so strongly without her.

BS-Free Witchcraft, Ep 03: The History of Wicca October 06, 2018 On this episode, Trae digs deep into the history of Wicca, and tries to give the most accurate history of the religion as they can. I mean, yeah, we know this is a general Witchcraft podcast, but Wicca is the most widely practiced form of Witchcraft in the US, UK, Canada and Australia… so how it got started is kind of important for the modern Witchcraft movement. (And trust me, there aren’t any pulled punches here.)

BS-Free Witchcraft, Ep. 28: The Burning Times May 30, 2020 On this installment of the podcast, we tackle probably one of the more controversial topics in the modern witchcraft movement: The Burning Times. What were the actual “Burning Times,” where do we get that phrase from, and what really happened? Also, how has this phrase been used in modern witchcraft? It’s a heavy one, folks.

Dig: A History Podcast - Both Man and Witch: Uncovering the Invisible History of Male Witches Sept 13, 2020 Since at least the 1970s, academic histories of witches and witchcraft have enjoyed a rare level of visibility in popular culture. Feminist, literary, and historical scholarship about witches has shaped popular culture to such a degree that the discipline has become more about unlearning everything we thought we knew about witches. Though historians have continued to investigate and re-interpret witch history, the general public remains fixated on the compelling, feminist narrative of the vulnerable women hanged and burned at the stake for upsetting the patriarchy. While this part of the story can be true, especially in certain contexts, it’s only part of the story, and frankly, not even the most interesting part. Today, we tackle male witches in early modern Eurasia and North America!

Dig: A History Podcast - Doctor, Healer, Midwife, Witch: How the the Women’s Health Movement Created the Myth of the Midwife-Witch Sept 6, 2020 In 1973, two professors active in the women’s health movement wrote a pamphlet for women to read in the consciousness-raising reading groups. The pamphlet, inspired by Our Bodies, Ourselves, looked to history to explain how women had been marginalized in their own healthcare. Women used to be an important part of the medical profession as midwives, they argued — but the midwives were forced out of practice because they were so often considered witches and persecuted by the patriarchy in the form of the Catholic Church. The idea that midwives were regularly accused of witchcraft seemed so obvious that it quickly became taken as fact. There was only one problem: it wasn’t true. In this episode, we follow the convoluted origin story of the myth of the midwife-witch.

Dig: A History Podcast - Cheesecloth, Spiritualism, and State Secrets: Helen Duncan’s Famous Witchcraft Trial July 3, 2022 Helen Duncan was charged under the 1735 Witchcraft Act, but her case was no eighteenth-century sensation: she was arrested, charged, and ultimately imprisoned in 1944. Of course, in 1944, Britain was at war, fighting fascism by day on the continent and hiding in air raid shelters by night at home. The spectacle of a Spiritualist medium on trial for witchcraft seemed out of place. What possessed the Home Secretary to allow this trial to make headlines all across the UK in 1944? That’s what we’re here to find out.

The Conspirators, Ep. 63 - The Last Witch Trial Nov. 26, 2017 England’s official laws regarding the prosecution of witches dates back to the 1600s. Those very same laws would also remain on the books until well into the 20th century. In 1944, a psychic medium named Helen Duncan would gain notoriety by becoming the last woman to be tried under England’s witchcraft laws.

The History of Witchcraft Podcast, hosted by Samuel Hume Witches didn’t exist, and yet thousands of people were executed for the crime of witchcraft. Why? The belief in magic and witchcraft has existed in every recorded human culture; this podcast looks at how people explained the inexplicable, turned random acts of nature into conscious acts of mortal or supernatural beings, and how desperate communities took revenge against the suspected perpetrators.

Unobscured, Season One - The Salem Witch Trials Welcome to Salem, Massachusetts. It’s 1692. And all hell is about to break loose.

Unobscured is a deep-dive history podcast from the labs of How Stuff Works, featuring the writing and narrative talents of Aaron Mahnke, horror novelist and the mind behind Lore and Cabinet of Curiosities.

As with his other series, Mahnke approaches the events in Salem armed with a mountain of research. Interviews with prominent historians add depth and documentation to each episode. And it’s not just the trials you’ll learn about; it’s the stories of the people, places, attitudes, and conflicts that led to the deaths of more than twenty innocent people.

Each week, a new aspect of the story is explored, gradually weaving events and personalities together in chronological order to create a perspective of the trials that is both expansive and intimate. From Bridget Bishop to Cotton Mather, from Andover to Salem Town, Mahkne digs deep to uncover the truth behind the most notorious witch trials in American history.

Think you know the story of Salem? Think again.

Witchcraft Practices

BS-Free Witchcraft, Ep. 43 - “Lilith” Jan. 29, 2022 Host Trae Dorn discusses the ongoing debate over whether or not it’s okay for non-Jewish witches to incorporate Lilith into their practices. Is Lilith closed? Is it cultural appropriation? There’s so much misinformation in New Age and poorly written witchcraft books on Lilith, it’s hard for some witches to get a clear picture. It’s common to run into folks on social media talking about Lilith as a “Goddess,” which she very much isn’t. Let’s dive into the origins of the folklore surrounding this figure, and we’ll let you decide whether or not it’s okay to work with Lilith. But, uh, spoiler – we don’t think you should.

Historical Blindness, Ep. 106 - Lilith, the Phantom Maiden November 22, 2022 Host Nathaniel Lloyd explores the evolution of the figure of Lilith, from Mesopotamian demon, to the first woman created by God, and back to a succubus mother of demons. It’s a tale of syncretism, superstition, forgery, and a dubious interpretation of scriptures.

BS-Free Witchcraft, Ep. 55 - Lucky Girl Syndrome and the Law of Attraction January 28, 2023 Trae takes a look at one of New Age spirituality’s most toxic philosophies - The Law of Attraction. The history of the idea is discussed, where it came from, and how this dangerous combination of prosperity gospel, purity culture, and victim-blaming has come back in a major way to a whole new generation as “Lucky Girl Syndrome.”

Hex Positive, Ep. 19 - The Trouble with Tarot August 1, 2021 Tarot and tarot-reading have been a part of the modern witchcraft movement since the 1960s. But where did these cards and their meanings come from? Are they secretly Ancient Egyptian mystical texts? Do they have their origins among the Romani people? Are they a sacred closed practice that should not be used by outsiders? Nope, nope, and nope.

This month, we delve into the actual history of tarot cards, discover their origins on the gaming tables of Italy and France, meet the people who developed their imagery and symbolism into the deck we know today, and debunk some of the nonsense that’s been going around lately concerning their use. The Witchstorian is putting on her research specs for this one!

Stuff You Missed in History Class - A Brief History of Tarot Cards Oct. 26, 2020 How did a card game gain a reputation for being connected to mysticism? Tarot’s history takes a significant turn in the 18th century, but much of that shift in perception is based on one author’s suppositions and theories.

Hex Positive, Ep. 23 - The Name of the Game November 1, 2021 Bree delves into the history, myths, and urban legends surrounding Ouija boards. Along the way, we’ll uncover their origins in the spiritualist movement, discover the pop culture phenomenon that labeled them portals to hell, and try to separate fact from internet fiction with regard to what these talking boards can actually do.

Our Curious Past, Ep. 20 - The Curious History of the Ouija Board August 18, 2023 Host Peter Laws explores the history of the “talking board,” which was wildly popular in the early 1900s, until something happened that would tarnish its’ reputation for good.

Ridiculous History - Brooms and Witchcraft, Pt. 1 & 2 Oct. 13-15, 2020 Most people are familiar with the stereotypical image of a witch: a haggard, often older individual with a peaked hat, black robes, a demonic familiar and, oddly enough, a penchant for cruising around on broomsticks. But where did that last weirdly specific trop of flying on a broomstick actually come from? Could the stereotype of witches on broomsticks actually be a drug reference? Join Ben, Noel, and Casey as they continue digging through the history and folklore of witchcraft - and how it affected pop culture in the modern day.

Historical Blindness, Ep. 116 - The Key to the Secrets of King Solomon May 02, 2023 Host Nathaniel Lloyd continues his occasional series on the history and mythology of magic. In this installment, he looks at the development of the story that the biblical King Solomon was actually a flying-carpet-riding, magic-ring-wielding wizard and alchemist who bound demons to do his will. The origins and content of the legendary Key of Solomon are also discussed.

Dig: A History Podcast - Plastic Shamans and Spiritual Hucksters: A History of Peddling and Protecting Native American Spirituality July 24, 2022 In the late 20th century, white Americans flocked to New Age spirituality, collecting crystals, hugging trees, and finding their places in the great Medicine Wheel. Many didn’t realize - or didn’t care - that much of this spirituality was based on the spiritual faiths and practices of Native American tribes. Frustrated with what they called “spiritual hucksterism,” members of the American Indian Movement (AIM) began protesting - and have never stopped. Who were these “plastic shamans,” and how did the spiritual services they sold become so popular?

Holidays

Hex Positive, Ep. 28 - The Easter-Ostara Debacle April 1, 2022 Host Bree NicGarran puts on her Witchstorian hat once more to delve into the origins of both Easter and Ostara and to finally answer the age-old question: which came first – the bunny or the egg?

Historical Blindness, Ep. 28 - A Very Historically Blind Christmas Dec. 18, 2018 An exploration of the origins of Christmas traditions, with special guest Brian Earl of the Christmas Past podcast. (There is also some mention of Christmas witches!) Further installments of this series explore additional Christmas traditions and iconography which have been falsely claimed to have pagan origins as well as the myths surrounding the history of Christmas itself. (Eps. 47, 63, 84, & 132 in December of subsequent years)

Modern Myths and the People Who Create Them

Ed and Lorraine Warren

You’re Wrong About…Ed and Lorraine Warren w. Jamie Loftus November 8, 2021 Special Guest Jamie Loftus tells Sarah about Ed and Lorraine Warren (of The Conjuring and Annabelle fame). Topics of interest include Connecticut as a locus of scary happenings, New England uncles, and psychic communication with a tearstained Bigfoot.

Dig: A History Podcast - The Demonologist and the Clairvoyant: Ed and Lorraine Warren, Paranormal Investigation, and Exorcism in the Modern World Oct 3, 2021 In the 1970s, Lorraine and Ed Warren had a spotlight of paranormal obsession shining on them. In the last decade, their work as paranormal investigators–ghost hunters–has been the premise for a blockbuster horror franchise totaling at least seven films so far, and more planned in the near future. So… what the heck? Is this for real? Yes, friends, today we’re talking about demonology, psychic connections to the dead, and the patriarchy. Just a typical day with your historians at Dig.

History Uncovered, Ep. 92 - The Enfield Haunting That Inspired "The Conjuring 2" Oct 25, 2023 The Enfield Haunting began with a bang. Literally. From 1977 to 1979, an unassuming North London home was the site of near-constant paranormal activity, from knocking sounds and moving objects to disembodied voices and the terrifying alleged possession of one young daughter of the Hodgson family. But how much truth was there to these happenings? And since the Warrens got involved briefly and subsequently touted themselves as experts on the case (and made money from talking about it), how much of what we think we know reflects the actual events?

"Paranormal" Literature

You’re Wrong About…Winter Book Club - The Amityville Horror, Pts. 1-3 Dec. 20, 2021 - Feb. 6, 2022 Sarah tells guest host Jamie Loftus about the Amityville Horror, how it’s a Christmas story, and buying murder furniture might not be such a great idea. Further highlights include Jodie the Demon Pig, poor insulation and terrible parenting as evidence of a haunting, lots and lots of sunk cost fallacy, and how the book kind of debunks itself.

You’re Wrong About… - Michelle Remembers, Pt. 1-5 March 26, 2020 - April 30, 2020 Intrepid hosts Sarah and Mike delve into one of the foundational texts of the Satanic Panic - “Michelle Remembers.” A young woman spends a year undergoing hypnosis therapy, which uncovers repressed memories of shocking and horrifying abuse at the hands of a Satanic cult. The book became a foundational text for both mental health professionals and law enforcement attempting to grapple with an alleged nationwide network of insidiously invisible child-abducting cults. The only problem is…none of what Michelle remembered ever actually happened.

You’re Wrong About…. - The Satan Seller, Pt. 1-5 June 28, 2021 - August 9, 2021 Sarah and Mike return to Camp You’re Wrong About for another Satanic Panic story hour. This time, the summer book club explores Mike Warnke’s 1972 “memoir” about joining a demonic cult, rising through the ranks of Satan’s favorite lackeys, his sudden downfall and redemption, and the California hedonism that made him do it. This is followed by a discussion of the Cornerstone Magazine exposé that brought the facts to light and thoroughly discredited Warnke’s story.

American Hysteria, Eps. 64-66 - Chick Tracts, Pts. 1-3 March 20 - April 03, 2023 In his own lifetime, Jack Chick was one of most prolific and widely-read comic artists in history. His company, Chick Tracts, published hundreds of millions of copies of pocket-sized bible comics, filled with lurid illustrations of cackling demons, wicked witches, and sinister cults, all hell-bent on corrupting any hapless mortal they could get their hands on. These tracts were meant to be left where they might be found by a sinner in need of salvation, with a scared-straight morality-play approach to Christianity that contributed in no small part to the period in the late 20th century we now call the Satanic Panic. (There’s also a follow-up two-part episode about one of Chick’s “occult experts,” who claimed to be, among other things, a real-life vampire.)

History Uncovered, Ep. 95 - Roland Doe, The Boy Who Inspired "The Exorcist" November 15, 2023 In 1949, priests performed an exorcism on a boy referred to as "Roland Doe," aka Ronald Hunkeler, in a chilling ordeal that became the real-life inspiration for William Peter Blatty's 1971 book, "The Exorcist," and the movie adaptation released in 1973. But what really happened during this alleged exorcism and was there any proof of the claims of alleged demonic paranormal activity surrounding the events?

You're Wrong About... - The Exorcist (with Marlena Williams) December 27, 2023 Marlena Williams, author of "Night Mother: A Personal and Cultural History of the Exorcist," joins host Sarah Marshall to discuss the little possession movie that changed America forever. Was the set cursed by Satan himself, or plain old 70s misogyny? What makes a country going through a cultural upheaval embrace stories about the Devil? And - the most critical question of all - do Ouija boards really cause possession?

Conspiracy Theories and Moral Panics

Secret Societies and Antisemitism

Historical Blindness, Ep. 14 - Bloody Libel December 12, 2017 An exploration of one of the most destructive myths in history - the blood libel, or the false accusation that Jews of the Middle Ages and beyond ritually murdered Christian children, a lie that host Nathaniel Lloyd traces back to its’ roots in medieval England and the murder of one Young William of Norwich.

Historical Blindness, Eps. 56-57 - The Illuminati Illuminated September 15-29, 2020 A contemplation of the modern conservative conspiracy theory of a “deep state” leads host Nathaniel Lloyd back to the dawn of the modern conspiracy theory, the Enlightenment, when the ultimate conservative conspiracy theory was born as an explanation for the French Revolution: The Illuminati!

Historical Blindness, Eps. 38-40 - Nazi Occultism, Parts 1-3 July 2-30, 2019 An exploration of the dark roots of Nazi occult philosophies, from a neo-paganism preoccupied with the Nordic Pantheon, to a folksy back-to-the-land movement that evolved into a nationalist sentiment, to an ideology of racial supremacy all tied up with contemporary myths and pseudoscience. (The host is careful to note with clarity and vehemence at the start of each episode that this series IN NO WAY approves of, promotes, or supports this ideology and Nazism is roundly condemned at every turn. It’s not an easy listen, but understanding how and why this bigotry continues to be a problem in pagan spaces and how to recognize it is very important.) TL;DR - Fuck Nazis. No tolerance for genocidal fuckwads.

DIG: A History Podcast - Werewolves, Vampires, and the Aryans of Ancient Atlantis: The Occultic Roots of the Nazi Party Oct 17, 2021 Modern movie plotlines which portray Nazi obsessions with occultism might be exaggerated for dramatic effect, but they aren't made up out of wholecloth. The NSDAP, or the National Socialist Worker's Party, was a party ideologically enabled by occultist theories about the Aryan race and vampiric Jews, on old folk tales about secret vigilante courts and nationalist werewolves, and on pseudoscientific ideas about ice moons. In this episode, the hosts explore the occult ideas, racial mythology, and 'supernatural imaginary' that helped to create the Nazi Party.

The Satanic Panic

American Hysteria - Satanic Panic, pt 1 & 2 Dec. 10 2018 - Jan. 07, 2019 This two-part episode covers perhaps the most mystifying moral panic in US history, the 1980s and early 90s ‘Satanic Panic.’ For this episode, Chelsey covers the rise of organized Satanism beginning in the late 60s, as well as the adversarial countercultures of the hippies and the metalheads, and their apparent Satanic crimes that would be hailed as proof of their evil, as well as proof that teens, as well as children, were in serious moral peril. Satan was allegedly hypnotizing the youth with secret messages in backwards rock songs, teaching them occult magic in Saturday morning cartoons, and causing suicides through a popular role-playing games, all while helping religion blur into politics for good.

For part two, Chelsey will cover what came next, a serious investigation into an imagined network of Satanic cults ritually abusing children in daycare centers all over the country. Chelsey will try to understand this shocking decade in history, why it really happened, and the cultural issues it was really about.

BS-Free Witchcraft, Ep 10 - The Satanic Panic April 27, 2019 The Satanic Panic of the 70s, 80s, and 90s shaped the Modern Witchcraft Movement in a lot of unexpected ways. Its effects still ripple through a lot of our sources, so in this installment of the podcast we’re digging into this extremely weird part of American history. It’s a bit of a doozy, after all.

BS-Free Witchcraft - Ep. 32: A New Satanic Panic? February 27, 2021 A couple of years ago, we did an episode on the history of the Satanic Panic of the latter half of the twentieth century, but recent events have led us to ask - could it be happening again? It’s very possible that we are at the start of a new wave of satanic panic, and QAnon is just the latest symptom of a larger problem.

Occultae Veritatis, Case #014: Satanic Panic of Martensville Jan. 28, 2018 Today the hosts cover one of the various Satanic ritual abuse scandals that happened close to them. Is it full of hot air and false allegations? Yes. Yes it is.

Occultae Veritatis, Case #097A & B: Dungeons, Dragons, and the Satanic Panic Dec. 07, 2019 - Dec. 15, 2019 Dungeons & Dragons, introduced in 1974, attracted millions of players, along with accusations by some religious figures that the game fostered demon worship and a belief in witchcraft and magic.

[Last Updated: Dec 29, 2023]

#witchblr #witch community #podcasts #podcast recs #history #satanic panic #fuck the warrens

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paganimagevault · 7 months

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Tomb of An Bei 589 CE. Sogdian tomb.

I couldn't find the translation for the epitaph for this one.

"Differently from the other tombs quoted in this paper, Anbei’s tomb was not excavated by archaeologists, but found and looted by the robbers, therefore the archaeological context of this tomb, even the date of this accidental finding are lost. Until now, all we know is that this tomb robbery happened someday between 2006 and 2007. Several stone figurines, a funerary couch and Anbei’s epitaph stone were found in the tomb. Two stone figurines, parts of the base of the couch and the epitaph are now exhibited in the Tang West Market Museum in Xi’an (Fig.20), four panels belonging to the private owners, including two processing and two banqueting scenes, were published, too (Fig.21).

Although owning the typical Sogdian name An, which means his ancestors migrated into China from Bukhara, his homeland was described in a completely different name, the state of Anjuyeni, which was never recorded by any source before. An’s family moved to China during the Northern Wei dynasty, some of his family members once served in the Bureau of Tributaries. For the court, it’s also an usual way to adopt expatriate immigrants to work in the diplomatic system. Anbei’s father, An Zhishi, served as a middle-rank commanding officer among the honour guards of the court.

As a, likely, third generation immigrant, Anbei’s life depicted in the epitaph was very brief, too. Except for the usual eulogies commonly written in every epitaph, two main parts of his experience were emphasized: his mercantile ability and simple bureaucratic career. The one who wrote the text made a metaphor, assimilating Anbei with two famous ancient Chinese merchants, Baigui and Xiangao during the Eastern Zhou Period (approximately between 8th c. - 3rd c. BC); After that, Anbei’s only short official career as a very lower status clerk of the military headquarters of vassal leader Xuchang was recorded, probably happened in 575 AD when he was 20 years old. Soonafter the Northern Qi was replaced by Northern Zhou dynasty in 577 AD, Anbei returned home in Luoyang, the place where he died and was buried in 589 AD at the age of 34.

The motivation for me to list this robbed tomb here, together with the other tombs which have detailed background obtained through scientific archaeological excavation is, however, mainly not for its elaborate funerary couch, but because of his distinctive identity depicted in the epitaph. Prior to the discovery of Anbei’s tomb, the deceased of all five tombs which constituted the most important foundation of the studies of the foreign immigrants in early medieval China, namely the tombs of Lidan, Kangye, Anjia, Shijun and Yuhong, owned high-ranked official positions such as head of a prefecture or Sabao, which may result in a misconception that only aristocrats of the foreign immigrants could be buried with such elaborate funerary furniture. However, Anbei’s tomb provided an additional possibility about the status of the tomb occupant who used the stone funerary furniture. What is expressly shown in the epitaph, during his 34-year-long life, Anbei was just a very ordinary person, without any notable ancestry from homeland, neither held any high-ranked post, nor received anyone as a posthumous reward.

Except for the basic information above, there is also a remarkable narration during the introduction in the beginning of Anbei’s epitaph, which may reflect the collective mindset among most of the foreign immigrants in China and their efforts in social integration, ‘Although he is a foreigner, after a long life in China, there is no difference between him and the Chinese’.

-Yusheng Li, Study of tombs of Hu people in late 6th century northern China

#sogdiana #ancient history #antiquities #art #history #museums #ancient china #chinese #ancient art

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tlatollotl · 10 months

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Do you want to tell us about Western Mexico in Mesoamerica?

It's an older meme I made, but it holds true. I could talk for hours if people let me. Especially if I had a screen to share images, show citations, etc.

But instead I will take this opportunity to address many of the tags in the reblogs asking why West Mexico has been ignored.

There's no definitive answer as to why, but more just a collection of small reasons that has resulted in a different historiography. Other than the Kingdom of Tzintzuntzan, there were not large states for the Spanish to conquer. It was much more fragmented, politically, culturally, and linguistically, than other parts of Mesoamerica.

To add to that, after the Mixton War of 1540, many parts of West Mexico were depopulated as a result of the war, enslaved and sent east, killed as retribution for participating in the war, or fled to other areas of Mesoamerica (such as the mountainous areas to the north of the Chichimeca area of north-central Mexico).

There's also the colonial and historic history of Mexico to consider. Mexico City was the center of New Spain and later the country of Mexico. So the focus was on Central Mexico, as a political center, trading center, and cultural center.

After the revolution about a century ago, Mexico began building its nationalism and part of that hinged on the history of Central Mexico (and also the Maya, who have a long and drawn out conquest history, history of rebellions in the colonial period, and general resistance to anyone that isn't Maya) leaving many areas of Mexico's cultural heritage to languish.

There was also a misconception about West Mexican archaeological potential beginning in the late 19th century. Because there were no large states other than the Kingdom of Tzintzuntzan, it was assumed there had never been states before the Postclassic. So one really tried to look for settlements and surface architecture. Instead, interest in the region stemmed from the ceramic figurines most often looted from shaft and chamber tombs located underground.

Those are some of the big ones that come to mind.

#west mexico #archaeology #mesoamerica

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lotusflowerbreakingthesurface · 1 month

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Let's Talk About PingXie: Part 5

A Summary of Common Misconceptions in the Original Work of Daomu Biji

Source: MuzzledIdealist

Please note that this is a repost with an edited MTL. The original text is written by MuzzledIdealist on Weibo. They said it's okay to repost as long as the source is indicated.

It's not entirely about PingXie though, but the original writer put "PingXie" tag for some reason, so I just follow along.

This post is about some misconceptions in Daomu Biji fandom and whether they're canon or not. Daomu Biji is an old and long series, its story has yet to be completed, there are also many theories that are written by the fans, and those may confuse the people who just joined the fandom. So, this post will explain the following topics:

The timeline of Three Days of Silence.

Zhang Qiling was imprisoned in a sanatorium by Zhang Qishan for 20 years.

Wu Xie and Xie Yuchen were childhood sweethearts, and whether Xie Yuchen said he would marry Wu Xie when he was a child (and vice versa).

Wu Xie owes Xie Yuchen 30 billion and whether the debt has been paid off.

Whether Zhang Qiling ever studied abroad with Hei Xiazi in Germany.

Whether there is something like "wake up and go home" between Li Cu and Wu Xie.

Part 1

Someone asked me when the Three Days of Silence happened, which brought back painful memories of my previous attempts to sort out the timeline related to brother and sister-in-law (PingXie)... I still remember that I spent several nights writing a few pages of word documents, but in the end I found that this is fruitless...

Xu Lei has dug so many holes that he can’t even remember what he has written. There are still many discrepancies between his online serialized version and the physical book version. The most obvious thing is that the front part of the earliest serialized version of Tibetan Sea Flower is very different from the physical book.

According to the (online) serialized version, the first time he (Xiaoge) entered Medog (Motuo) to meet Deren was probably in the late 1970s, and the second time he went to Medog to investigate Dong Can’s whereabouts was probably in the late 1980s. However, in the physical book it was changed to the late 1940s when the first time he (Xiaoge) went to Medog to see Deren, and the second time he went to see Dong Can was in the late 1950s. In the (online) serialized version, Chen Xuehan met a man [they used “哥” here, since Xiaoge is often just called "哥" too, I'm not sure who are they referring to, a man named "Zaji" or Xiaoge] in Jila Temple, but this plot was deleted in the physical version, and even the important character "Zaji" was deleted [see more in Tibetan Sea Flower Ch. 4 (MereBear's Translation)]. Judging from the expression of the two versions, the physical book may have deleted some things, resulting in part of the narrative not being as readable as the (online) serialized version. Looking at the timeline, the time in the (online) serialized version is more consistent with the timeline in the follow-up Unknown Story: Queen of the West’s Ghost Banquet, which states: "(Xiao)ge went to Medog in the late 1970s and left Medog just a few days after Wu Xie was born." [See more in Unknown Story: Queen of the West’s Ghost Banquet Part 2 | Part 3 (MereBear's Translation)]

Therefore, if we speculate according to the (online) serialized version, Three Days of Silence happened in the late 1970s (Zhang Qiling entered Medog for the first time and met Lama Deren, and Wu Xie was born in the same year that Zhang Qiling left Medog). If we speculate according to the physical version, Three Days of Silence happened in the late 1940s (Zhang Qiling entered Medog for the first time and met Lama Deren).

Looking at the timeline of the original story, it's even more confusing. The archaeological team was switched, Xie Jiu(ye)'s plan happened to be destroyed by Panma and others. The plots of the two archaeological expeditions at the Zhang Family's Ancient Building and the two groups of people in Xisha and Heavenly Palace on the Clouds are somewhat confusing. In addition, the key nodes of the timeline involve three versions of narratives by Zhang Qiling, Wu Sanxing, and Chen Wenjin, plus Wu Xie’s speculation in the summary chapter, which makes the timeline even more messy. Even if the physical book comes with a timeline of major events, the description is unclear.

Also, "it", the core that controls everything, involved some unspeakable things in the original serialized version (don't ask about this). In order to avoid this problem in subsequent publications, XL added some random things to Zhang Qishan, which caused great contradictions and divisions in the character and positioning of Zhang Qishan.

As soon as the operation is completed, the imagination and rumors come... Regarding the statement that "Zhang Qiling was imprisoned in a sanatorium by Zhang Qishan for 20 years", I have seen it many times, but the fact is that (Xiao)ge was seriously injured and lost his memory in the largest grave robbery in history in 1965. However, after this incident, a group of people headed by Wu Laogou and Huo Xiangu have been supporting and protecting him. The book states that (Xiao)ge entered a sanatorium at some point later, and was indeed transferred out of the sanatorium in 1985. But the book never mentioned who Zhang Qishan imprisoned, nor did it mention the specific time when he (Xiaoge) entered the sanatorium, but what is certain is that he still appeared in Medog in 1977, so "Zhang Qishan imprisoned people" and "20 years" are both pure imagination......

Part 2

Then there are many other rumors. Here are some common ones and clarifications.

1. Are Wu Xie and Xie Yuchen childhood sweethearts?

False. Wu Xie lived in Hangzhou most of the time when he was a child. Only during the Chinese New Year would he go back to his hometown in Changsha with adults to pay New Year greetings. Only then would he have the opportunity to play with children such as Xie Yuchen and Huo Xiuxiu, who are also juniors. Wu Xie went back to his hometown no more than five times, so he met these juniors no more than five times in total.

“When I was a child, I paid New Year's greetings. I remember that we kids often played together, but Wu Xie, you are not so gregarious, you are introverted, and you are from out of town, so you may not be familiar with me, so you don't remember me.” —Xie Yuchen’s original words in the main story. [See more in Daomu Biji Vol. 7 Ch. 31 (MereBear's Translation) | Ch. 26 (Chinese Version)]

“We came to our ancestral village not to reminisce about the past and celebrate the New Year. In fact, from the time I was born to now, I have never returned to my hometown more than once.” —Wu Xie's narration in the New Year chapter that follows the main story. [See more in Daomu Biji Extra Chinese New Year Special : Ch. 1.1 (MereBear's Translation) | Ch. 1 (Chinese Version)

2. When Xie Yuchen was a child, he said he wanted to marry Wu Xie? (And vice versa)

False. It was Huo Xiuxiu who said she wanted to marry Wu Xie, and at that time they were just children under 10 years old, it's a kid's joke.

"Yes, you even forgot about me.” Huo Xiuxiu said from the side, “You can’t even tell who’s real and who’s fake. You’re worse than this Fatty. It’s so upsetting. I even wanted to marry you when I was a child.” —Huo Xiuxiu's original words in the main story. [See more in Daomu Biji Vol. 7 Ch. 31 (MereBear's Translation) | Ch. 26 (Chinese Version)]

Part 3

3. Wu Xie owes Xie Yuchen 30 billion?

False. The fact is that Iron Triangle made a big fuss at the Crescent Hotel and robbed the Ghost Seal. The reason why they were not held accountable was because Mrs. Huo came forward and asked the Huo family to guarantee them. The reason why the Huo family was willing to provide a guarantee was because they wanted Iron Triangle to join in the operation to capture the Lama. So Wu Xie did owe money, but what he owed was the money from the Crescent Hotel's auction of the Ghost Seal, and this debt was guaranteed by the Huo family. Later, people from the Crescent Hotel came to collect the debt, so they asked Xie Yuchen to find Wu Xie and the others to ask for money.

“This son and I are going grave robbing soon.” Granny Huo patted the pattern and said, “I need your help. If you promise, I’ll make sure you don’t have to worry about Crescent Hotel. And there are other big benefits.” —Daomu Biji Vol. 7 Ch. 31 (MereBear's Translation)

“If I leave Beijing, our two families may fight and give a third party a chance. Beijing’s circle is so chaotic that when you made a scene before, Liuli Sun looked to us for an explanation. And the people at the Crescent Hotel are even more troublesome.” Xiao Hua said. “Your asses haven’t been wiped clean. When the Huos are in turmoil, the debts must be repaid together.” —Daomu Biji Vol. 8 Ch. 4 (MereBear's Translation)

「Xiao Hua looked at our feet and then at our walls. Fatty had put up some hanging paintings, but I didn’t know where he had found them. “Actually, people from Crescent Hotel came to ask me to pass on a message to you,” he said.

I looked at Fatty—I hadn’t heard that name for a long time—and said, “You can tell them that I haven’t been in the business recently. They don’t need to be concerned with me.”

“They’re here to collect the debt,” Xiao Hua said. “Do you still remember that you took something from Crescent Hotel without paying? I was your guarantor at that time and now I’ve come to collect.”」

—Daomu Biji Extra: Some of Wu Xie’s Thoughts (MereBear's Translation)

By the way, where did the 30 billion come from:

30 billion is not cash or an exact number, but the valuation of antiques stored in banks around the world by the Xie family. To put forward these antiques, we need a "special one" that can change the graphics according to the time accurately to the second, and correspond to the corresponding database system of those banks. The seal that “cannot be copied” was once hung around Huo Xiuxiu’s neck in Sand Sea, but was later torn off and thrown into the sewer. "As the water washes away, the seal is poured into the depths of the sewer. After 3 months, when the power of the backup battery is exhausted, the seal will stop changing. The wealth valued at nearly 30 billion will become dead and sealed forever in the bank". In short, this 30 billion has nothing to do with Wu Xie's debt.

4. Wu Xie owes this money and has not paid it back?

False. It had been paid off long ago, and Xiao Hua even mistakenly thought that the things that Fatty put in Wu Xie's house to pay the bills were Wu Xie's property and moved them away, so Wu Xie was so poor during Restart period...

「I thought Fatty had some more valuable things, but he said that all of the good things had been moved to Rain Village. On that stormy night, all those things had been regarded as mine and Xiao Hua took them away to settle the accounts (1). Fatty seemed to have a lifetime of bad luck just for knowing me. He went from getting accidental injuries to losing his whole fortune.

I sighed, pinched my brows, and realized that I had to make some money.」

—Restart Ch. 126 (MereBear's Translation)

Later, Xu Lei also replied in the WeChat comment area that the money owed by Wu Xie had been paid off:

「Selected comment: Wu Xie still owes Xiao Hua the Ghost Seal money and hasn’t paid it back yet. How dare he borrow it again?

Xu Lei: It’s done.」

An additional point here is that the Huo family should use their own family credit as a guarantee for the Iron Triangle, and the amount of debt is huge. The Huo family should provide personal insurance rather than property insurance. PICC (People's Insurance Company of China) is divided into general guarantee and joint liability guarantee. Usually fools will choose general guarantee, let alone a smart person like Mrs. Huo, because under this guarantee method, the guarantor enjoys the right of first-suit defense. In layman's terms, the creditor must first apply to enforce the debtor's own property. Only when the debtor runs away and has no money or his own property is not enough to pay off the entire debt, can the creditor require the guarantor to assume the guarantee liability. This means that Crescent Hotel can only ask Wu Xie to pay back the money first. Unless Wu Xie has no money to pay back, he can go to the Huo family. Therefore, Wu Xie went bankrupt and paid off his debts, and the Huo family did not have to pay at all.

Part 4

5. Zhang Qiling and Hei Xiazi studied in Germany together?

False. First of all, it is never mentioned in the book that I have been to Germany. This rumor may have developed from "Zhang Qiling understands German". So, can I speak German?

When (Xiao)ge went to investigate Dong Can's whereabouts, he found a German corpse and a notebook in the snowy mountains. In the notebook, there were things about the ultimate recorded by the Germans. Later, Wu Xie found a note left by the Germans in the jacket draped over (Xiao)ge's statue. From these details, it seems to be inferred that I understand German. However, the Germans have been involved in matters related to the archaeological inversion for a long time, and they have also used each other with the Zhang family. When Wu Xie entered Medog, he also met many Germans and brought his own translator, so it was not difficult to find a German or even a German translator in Medog. It is not ruled out that he does not need to be very proficient in German to communicate with Germans.

Moreover, he is a person who is extremely talented in languages. When he went to investigate Dong Can, he could not understand the conversation of the Tibetan porter and could not understand the word "ultimate" written in Tibetan in his notebook. But later he learned it after staying in Medog for a while, so it is entirely possible that he learned basic German through communicating with Germans in Medog. Does language learning have to be achieved by going abroad? What's more, he didn't even have an ID card at the time, so how could he go to Germany......

Later, Xu Lei even said that (Xiao)ge didn't know German well:

「Xu Lei’s new book live broadcast in October last year (2022)

Host: A friend asked if Xiaoge can speak Northeastern dialect?

Xu Lei: Then he can definitely speak it. Xiaoge can also speak English.

Host: Does he speak German, too?

Xu Lei: Ah? (Shocked, why didn’t I know about this?)

Host: A friend said below that Xiaoge can also speak German, so you are writing a book for Sanshu (NPSS), but Xiaoge doesn't speak German.

Xu Lei: (Laughing awkwardly) Yeah, yeah.

Host: (Laughing awkwardly) If you have a mouth, you can speak.

Xu Lei: Well... that's possible, maybe a little bit, but it's that kind of... uh... then I can say that I can do it a little bit.

Host: Xiaoge can also speak zongzi language.

Xu Lei: Yes, actually it is called insect language, which simulates the sound of insects to test whether there are very dangerous insects in the corpse.」

6. Did Li Cu say "Wake up, we're going home" to Wu Xie in Sand Sea? [IIrc it should be the other way around but it has the same point though]

False. The only time this sentence appears in the entire Daomu Biji series is in Daomu Biji Vol. 8, when Wu Xie and Pangzi went to the Zhang family's Ancient Building to save Xiaoge. When Wu Xie saw the ancient building and saw his brother dying, he thought he was dead. He instantly felt that the world had collapsed, his body felt despair one step ahead of his consciousness, and he patted (Xiao)ge's face in a state of despair and said, "Wake up, go home."

So how did the rumor come to be that Li Cu also said such things to Wu Xie? Since I haven't watched any movies and TV series related to Daomu Biji, I searched for a long time and found out that this is the plot of the Sha Hai (Tomb of the Sea) web series, which was rumored to be the original content, and coupled with the spread of the yx (marketing) account, it became a rumor that everyone said. Personally, I hope that the book and the drama can be separated, at least not to spread unfounded rumors as the content of the original work (the novel).

My thought:

It was posted in December 2023, so I think it's still relevant. I don't know if anyone would be interested in this matter but I think it's pretty interesting, so I couldn't help but repost it here (⁠^⁠～⁠^⁠;⁠)⁠ゞ

Thanks for reading! (⁠◍⁠•⁠ᴗ⁠•⁠◍⁠)⁠✧⁠*⁠。

#daomu biji #dmbj #pingxie #盗墓笔记 #瓶邪 #not fic recs #dmbj meta #meta recs #let's talk about pingxie

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kafkasapartment · 2 months

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Historians initially viewed ancient Kush with bias, exemplified by Harvard Egyptologist George Reisner, who deemed Kerma an Egyptian outpost. Later, excavations uncovered that Kerma was an indigenous kingdom predating 3000 B.C., challenging earlier misconceptions and revealing its significant influence, rivaling Egypt.

#histoire #history #egypt #africa #historia #geography #geology #legends

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ochipi · 2 years

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Debunking archaeology stereotypes #1

Myth: we do dinosaurs.

Reality: no we don’t. And there’s actually a pretty good reason for it. There are plenty of people who study animal remains in archaeology. It’s called archeozoölogy. Why is that not biology? Because the animals are studied as part of human interactions on living beings as we see them in a buried context. Everything revolves around human actions from the past with soil being the medium in which we read them.

Living dinosaurs have never ever been in contact with humans so there is no archaeological search methodology that can be applied. Digging techniques are for sure very similar, but that’s about it.

When in a 1000 years archaeologists dig a natural history museum which used to house dinosaurs than yes, that will count as archaeology because there has been human intervention on the fossils. But pure in situ fossils are researched by people who are not called archaeologists but paleontologists.

Also: dinosaurs have not been around all of prehistory. So where do we draw the line for “human interaction”? For simplicity, we use radiocarbon dating, also called C14 dating. It’s measuring the half life of carbon elements which are present in every single biological specimen. And although humanoids existed for as long back as about 300.000 years, C14 can date a maximum of about 60.000 years back. Conveniently that’s also around the same time our ancestors started leaving artifacts behind that we can find nowadays.

#archaeology #field archaeologist #meme #archaeology meme #history #history meme #paleontology #paleontology meme #indiana jones #dinosaurs #misconceptions #archaeology misconceptions #archaeology problems #stereotypes #archaeology stereotypes #debunking #debunking stereotypes #radiocarbon

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hmshermitcraft · 3 months

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started typing this before the theme changed but checked the main page and it had changed. oh well teacher AU impskizz + impixl

impulse is a gold allay, skizz is a blue allay, pixl is a dragon

impulse teaches redstone, skizz teaches music, pixl teaches archaeology

allays are so rare that impulse and skizz have resigned themselves to also teaching people about allay culture and biology because it keeps coming up and there's so many weird misconceptions floating around the internet that researching it is often very hard

impulse and skizz have been together for a while now, trying to get by and also teach, which is kind of difficult given allays needing to eat some amethyst and ongoing amethyst shortages and price gouging and neither of them being paid very well. still, they have wild hopes to live somewhere nicer and maybe have a few kids someday

so, of course, when pixlriffs starts asking impulse and skizz about allay romance culture etc they both just assume this is More Random Questions. he seems to forget it some time afterwards too despite how much he seems to enjoy chatting with the two of them. dragons traditionally give gifts to friends, and the ones pixlriffs are giving impulse and skizz overlap a LOT with traditional allay courting gifts! especially the amethyst which impulse REALLY HOPES pixlriffs is remembering will be eaten because he is definitely splitting that with skizz. its especially awkward because both impulse and skizz genuinely like pixlriffs and don't want to make things any more awkward by asking him to stop.

meanwhile pixlriffs is DELIGHTED that impulse is accepting all his gifts and enjoying his company! he's making this mingling draconic and allay courting standards thing so well!

one day when pixl is digging out a bit more space for his house - dragons burrow, he's got a sort of hillside hobbithome deal and he wants it to be big enough for impulse and skizz and any other family they have or want - he finds an amethyst geode. one of the ones with endlessly regrowing crystals. just, there, by his house.

clearly he should stay up until 4am making an amethyst and chocolate vase to announce this to impulse with.

(once the Misunderstanding is sorted out, the relationship goes well)

It's... Really endearing once Impulse learns what Pix did. A lot of people ask him and Skizz about allay biology or culture, but none of them actually do anything with it. None of them but Pix, evidently, who took the time to blend it with his own culture to create something unique. Impulse knew the man was committed to his studies, but he didn't realise that kind of energy could be committed to him.

They have some negotiations about their relationship. Pix understands Impulse and Skizz are a package deal, even if Pix and Skizz don't dare. Pix even prepared for that, making sure the pair will have their own spaces as well as shared ones! He understands they won't want to move in immediately, but it's there for them when they want it.

As for who gets Impulse when, they're adults. They can share him. Besides, most of the time his marking and lesson plans will win (Impulse protests this with a laugh, jokingly shoving Skizz.)

#trafficshipping #empiresshipping #hermitshipping #ask #impulse tag #skizz tag #pix tag #skizzpulse #impixl #mod 🎀#weekly theme: teacher au

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rock-swag-tournament · 9 months

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Rock Swag Tournament Round 1: Igneous Rocks Part 12

So many of your here may know of obsidian. I haven't a clue why.

For those of you unfamiliar, obsidian is a form of volcanic glass, but it is not the only one! Tachylite is obsidian's much less well-known sibling.

Now, I'm going to go against everything I talked about in earlier posts, because while obsidian is black (or sometimes a reddish-brown) it is FELSIC! That babey has very few of those dark mafic minerals, but the little bit of iron and magnesium combined with the quick cooling (and therefore lack of individual crystals) gives obsidian this dark color.

Tachylite on the other hand is mafic! It, like obsidian is a volcanic glass that cools very quickly and lacks mineral grains, but it does contain all those dark mafic minerals at the top of Bowen's Reaction Series.

Also, I wanted to take the time to correct a small misconception in that post about obsidian weaponry. And I'm not here to spoil the fun, don't worry. I do adore that post and it makes me laugh whenever I see it. This is instead, a bit of an archaeology lesson. More under the cut.

While the geologist in question argues that an obsidian knife would make a poor weapon because it volcanic glass, I am here to say that obsidian was actually frequently used for weaponry and tools (and that ended up being a very good thing for archaeologists)!

Now, I will admit that these obsidian artifacts are often on a smaller scale: things like arrowheads and small blades and not long knives. One form of weaponry, the macuahuitl, was made by embedding small obsidian blades into a club!

The reason obsidian is actually an effective weapon is because it is easy to work with and very sharp. While it is certainly more prone to breakage than metal when banged against hard objects, it makes for an extremely sharp and effective blade when used for slicing, rather than to cause blunt force trauma. In fact, a freshly broken piece of obsidian can be sharper than a steel blade. So it certainly isn't out of the question to make an use an obsidian knife. You just might have to be a bit more careful when swinging it around near hard surfaces.

I should also note that these artifacts were made through a process called knapping, wherein someone strategically chips away at a piece of material (often flint, obsidian, or some other material that has conchoidal fracture, or fractures in a way that shows concentric lines similar to growth lines on a shell) to form a shaped tool, weapon, blade, etc.

Here's an obsidian arrowhead. It has been shaped to have notches where it could be affixed to the shaft of an arrow, a pointed tip, and sharp, thin edges that would cut through the hide of the creature being hunted.

So, obsidian was used for tools and weapons that necessitated slicing more than banging. And an obsidian sword probably wouldn't be very effective. If you bang it against the stone battlement by accident, it'll break. And I could believe that the force needed to stab someone clean through with a sword would cause an obsidian blade to break. I haven't tested this theory. But when used as a small cutting blade affixed to something like a club or an arrow, its pretty effective! If they weren't effective, people wouldn't have used them so much throughout history.

And that brings me to why obsidian artifacts are so important for archaeology! Volcanoes have their own unique geochemical signatures, which means we can trace pieces of obsidian back to the volcano from which it erupted.

This is incredibly helpful for archaeologists who want to learn about things like trade and travel between ancient peoples. If you find an obsidian arrowhead a thousand miles from the volcano from which that obsidian came, you know that a person had to travel a thousand miles to move that piece of obsidian. Volcanic rocks don't really move a thousand miles from their source without a little human intervention. A real person at some point in time had to help that rock out! It's endlessly fascinating, that least to me.

Anyway, if this rant proves anything, it is that I, too, would be prone to getting hit by a baseball bat while I rant about obsidian blades in a somewhat more archaeologically-informed way!

#rock swag tournament round 1 #rock swag tournament igneous rocks

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ceo-draiochta · 7 months

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A review of:

The Origins of Ireland's Holy Wells by Celeste Ray

Celeste Ray, a professor of anthropology for the University of the South, USA wrote this book after extensive research, both desk and foot into Irelands Holy Wells. I would honestly recommend anyone with any interest in Irish religious practices, culture, paganism, or mythology to pick it up. An amazing book. I'll be giving my thoughts and what I liked and didn't like about it here.

What I liked:

A very well researched book that shows the authors dedication not just to anthropology but to the living practices she is documenting

The passion of the author is clear and they Mince no words when discussing other researchers and their work, pointing out the flaws, misconceptions and biases (some of which were wild I can't believe some of these people are taken as authorities on the subject when their conclusion was that wells are a toilet metaphor?)

Uses a wider pre roman European context for the evidence. As we are so often reminded, to treat Ireland as some how separate from Western Europe is ridiculous and is a disservice to the interconnection of the people of old.

The reframing of this idea, which is normally used as a strong force against nativist views into a supportive one was quite interesting.

Examines roman writings in a very balanced way that acknowledges the inherent propaganda but does not dismiss it outright.

There's a whole section of people including academics who seems desperate for a roman invasion of ireland, despite there being basically no evidence of it. Like people are fully making things up to try and force one, the author gives these people a sound dismissal in their restating of the evidence of raiding and trade over large-scale roman conquest. (Genuine question can someone explain why people are so mad for Romans in ireland?)

I thus learned more about pre roman Western European practices and archeology than I ever really had the desire to. I am now much more educated on the subject.

The framing of sites as important locations adopted and readopted based on shifting circumstances of the time rather than a "secret unbroken line" which is much more realistic.

The explanation of Holy Wells as archaeologically challenging sites was well explained.

Using etymology in the connection of wells to supernatural beings. Love etymology so this was amazing

The use of early irish literature to support existing claims. Which I know claiming that there are pagan elements in the literature basically gets you spat and jeered at but nevertheless is really compelling.

While this blog has been thoroughly against the lumping together of celtic cultures, this book makes a great case as to when it is appropriate to use the term celtic and that the rush to replace this term has very much resulted in the baby being thrown out with the bath water.

Actually engages with living culture and treats folklore and living sources/practices as evidence to be considered rather than "silly little irish peasants" but also does not take every tale as completely accurate literal history.

Plenty of examples and pictures of well in practice today.

Supports a general pre Christian, pre roman use of wells and springs as sacred sites but also acknowledges the influence of both (especially Christian) on the practice.

Acknowledges the diverse origins of holy wells, from one's that have have votive offerings since the bronze age to ones that were made sacred in the modern age.

Does not buy into any sort of "Christians are thieves" narrative.

Honestly this seems like the definitive book on irish holy wells.

What I didn't like:

While I loved the book there was definitely things I took issue with.

The assertive nature of the tone was entertaining, it did sort of feel like the author was this close to calling other researchers "fucking idiots", though humanities papers seem to have a much more aggressive tone than I am used to from my field of study.

The author makes many an interesting and compelling hypothesis in the book, but they are just that. These theories are then presented as the fact of the matter when really they are no more or less substantiated than the other theories.

Could have done without some of the "identity politics" on the celtic question section. Like I get that's a huge part of this authors work but I didn't feel it was all necessary to include.

Some of the mythological comparisons seem like a little bit of a stretch Low-key.

Either way this is a fantastic work and I urge everyone even remotely interested to buy it, it's a little pricey but well worth it. It can be purchased online on Google books(link). Now obviously this is all from my lay perspective, if anyone with actual qualifications wants to correct or argue feel free. This is just my perspective.

#irish mythology #celtic mythology #irish paganism #gaelic paganism #holy wells #celtic Christianity #ireland #resources #review #mine #anthropology #irish catholic #magic #féile #lúnasa #holy well

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thorraborinn · 1 year

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Hey, do you know of any paper or something examining the Baldr myth critically besides Anatoly Liberman's paper? Also, what do you think about Dr. Crawford's Loki misconceptions video or his collab video with ReligionForBreakfast?. I know you said in one of your posts that the question to whether or not Loki was worshiped historically has not been argued successfully either way, so that's why I'm asking if you've seen it since in one of them and others he says Loki wasn't worshiped bc no place names. Sorry if this is too hard of an ask. I decided to ask you since you're the only person who I know won't make up bullshit/give moral reasons to questions about Loki historically/mythically.

A lot of scholars have written about the myth, though not necessarily in the granular detail or from the same angle that Liberman did. I think that more has been written about Loki which touches on the Baldr myth than works which are specifically about the Baldr myth. Here are some that come to mind, and they all have references to others.

John Lindow has written a lot about it, including a book, Murder and Vengeance among the Gods: Baldr in Scandinavian Mythology (which I haven't read). His article "The Tears of the Gods: A Note on the Death of Baldr in Scandinavian Mythology" can be read for free on JSTOR, which is valuable if for no other reason than his very quick rapid-fire summary of the main threads in the history of research up to that point, which also constitutes a good reading list for exactly this question. Lindow also contributed the "Baldr" chapter to Brepols' The Pre-Christian Religions of the North series (which I have also not read).

Jens Peter Schjødt mentions it throughout his book Initiation Between Worlds: Structure and Symbolism in Pre-Christian Scandinavian Religion. He's mostly concerned with looking at the relationship between the world of the living and the world of the dead, so those are the aspects of the myth he focuses on. Schjødt has more experience writing about Loki than about Baldr, but of course you can't write about one without the other.

Kevin Wanner, best known for writing Snorri Sturluson and the Edda: The Conversion of Cultural Capital in Medieval Scandinavia, wrote an article called "Cunning Intelligence in Norse Myth: Loki, Óðinn, and the Limits of Sovereignty," which is mostly about the relationship between Óðinn and Loki (including the Baldr story), and the relationship of the pair to human people, especially poets. It takes a little while to get to the point, but I think it's worth it.

Though it hardly even mentions Baldr, one of the most influential recent works on Loki is "Loki, the Vätte, and the Ash Lad: A Study Combining Old Scandinavian and Late Material” by Eldar Heide. I'm going to bring this up again soon.

Anyway, to the second part of the question, I'd rather get kicked in the solar plexus by a mule than watch a YouTube video so I'm not going to comment on what Crawford says there specifically, but the "Loki doesn't have any place-names" argument is old and usually comes in two varieties. If Crawford came up with a third, then I apologize for the oversight, but I imagine it's one of these:

(the good one): We know from the sagas that naming places for gods was a common way to show devotion, and from archaeology that many places named for gods were important ritual centers; furthermore places named for gods tend to concentrate near centers of social and political power. Therefore, if we're able to demonstrate that place-name evidence was passed down reliably from medieval or earlier times, it can be one of the strongest indicators available to us of cultic activity directed toward specific named gods and its presence allows us to make much more confident statements about worship than we can make in their absence. While this is inherently limited, because it necessarily privileges the beliefs of the people who had the social position to declare names of places and to direct the construction of ritual sites, it's one of the best pieces of evidence available to us.

(the bad one): oh yeah, no, if they don't have any places named for them they weren't worshiped. Yeah, they definitely would have named a place after him and it definitely would have been unchanged until modern times. No, there were no other forms of devotion, just naming stuff.

I don't recognize the statement "the evidence does not permit us to say that there was a cult of Loki" as equivalent to saying "we can say definitively that there was not a cult of Loki."

Moreover, I think it's a failure of imagination to think that all devotion would take the same form. I don't imagine that Loki's idol was ever on the highest platform in a major ritual site like Thor's was at Uppsala but that's also not a useful standard, and it seems to me that it's the standard that the place-name argument holds him to. If we look at the Baltic peoples for comparison, they had very different forms of worship for different gods, so the absence of evidence for worship of Žemyna in a context appropriate for the worship of Perkūnas does not mean that Žemyna was not worshiped.

Anyway these days everyone seems to be on the "Loki was just a regular house spirit for many generations before being assimilated into the gods" bandwagon, one that I have disagreements with, but one which is compatible with "Loki was worshiped but not in a way that would result in place-names." Liberman made a case for Loki being a very, very ancient god; and Riccardo Ginevra's etymology of Sígyn requires that Loki's wife already be thousands of years old by the Viking age. There's lots and lots and lots of ways to argue in favor of him having been worshiped, all of which require modification of the word "worship" from the one the place-name-arguers use, so that eventually everyone is talking past each other. At the end of the day, "We don't know" is the actual answer to most of our questions.

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