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lokiiied · 6 months

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thinking about loki’s 400 year long stare at mobius when he says, “it’s about who”

and then how he looks at sylvie and says, “i can rewrite the story” and how she has her own story - without romance. how she told him to “write his own story” and how he’s now canonically god of stories/storytelling.

thinking about how if they make lokius canon, marvel’s first major canonically queer character will have “rewritten” the cishet centred narrative that a major audience is expecting and just how powerful that would be.

because, as much as i like the bisexual “confirmation” scene - it was very easy to look over if you’re a homophobic viewer or don’t know what bisexuality is. because they never had either of them say the words, “i am bisexual”. that and how they “dealt” with loki’s genderfluidity.

but a major gay couple?? with the healthiest and most intimate relationship i’ve EVER seen marvel write?? that would not be so easy to ignore. especially when you go back and see that it’s been there the whole time. if you knew what to look for. which, is honestly probably the queer vision in a nutshell. because cishets will be blind to anything if they see a man + woman option. they need “undeniable” proof. marvel knows that & it’s why they’ve gotten away with this. why they’re still “safe” for most of their anti-queer audience.

but just imagine, if loki fixes all this, get his friends back, and shows mobius know how he really feels and basically says “this has been the love story the whole time” THAT will be his legacy. in all the glorious i’m a god and i’ve been bad and i’m good and i’m queer and i have inherent worth just like everybody else and i don’t give a fuck loki fashion. and i hope to gods we get to see that.

that’s the story i want to see.

because if they turn around and give us sylki — (and in doing so say here’s a perfect example of a healthy gay relationship but instead we’re gonna give you a toxic genderbent selfcest romance) regardless of the fact we know they are both queer — that is not what a homophobic audience is going to see. they’re going to be satisfied that they didn’t see two men kissing on their screen and call it another win. and marvel would be continuing to encourage the idea that us queer fans are delusional - despite the clearly intentional writing.

not to mention the exhausting, intrinsically homophobic harassment & clowning lokius shippers have endured would actually not be for nothing if lokius were canon and marvel were to decide btw queer people are real and so are their stories and so is their love.

if the show about the genderfluid bisexual god of stories can’t accomplish that after all this character development then. idk.

#like even if you ship sylki you have to understand this #marvel has one of the largest fanbases in the world #and they have queerbaited to the max with this show #in order to draw a queer audience #so yeah. if they make sylki canon OF COURSE it’s homophobic & sexist #and we have every right to be mad about it #marvel are fucking cowards all they care about is money #anyways #lokius endgame #lol #lokius #loki #loki season 2 #loki spoilers #marvel

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blueeandyellowmakesgreen · 1 year

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at least try harder lmao how was this such a popular idea back then. 2 of them are straight as line and what pisses me off is they completely disregarded the cali gang’s existence while theyre at it, and acting like the former with OMGG THEYRE SO GAYYYY HAHAHAHAH ❤️❤️❤️❤️😭😭😭😭😭 just bc the cast wasnt conventionally attractive .

yes i hate fun. i hate this concept with a burning passion. this is my toxic trait. theyre fucking cowards lmfao

#ok now im done.#sorry #anywayyy #am i really done though dear god i hate it when ga tells us we’re delusional when they ship two white men who talked for 5 minutes max #and one is as straight as a board and their main interaction was about a girl he literally hasfeelings for #be for fucking real #acting like its revolutionary shit and how THATS queerbaiting dear god shut up #literallt the only thing that made the ud squad interesting was he younger kids #i could give less of a shit about them if they didnt have max lucas dustin and erica #and idk maybe it would have been interesting!! but the fact they were SO highlighted #AND THAT OVERSHADOWED BYLER?#THE GAYESY SHIT IN THE SHOW?#FOR NO FUCKING REASON-im done. im done

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youshouldbesad · 2 years

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its so weird going through the stranger things tag on here like half of it is eddie x reader fics and the other half is byler shippers who believe with full confidence that they got queerbaited

#a gay teen having an unrequited crush on his best friend isnt queerbaiting pls be serious 😭#also people genuinely shocked that eddie dies.. did we watch the same show??? it seemed so obvious to me that was gonna happen #anyways wheres my max and lucas content they are all i care about actually #stranger things spoilers

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scarrletmoon · 7 months

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okay i know the Discourse™️ has been going on for way too long at this point, but

i think some people outside of the OFMD fandom don’t actually get why we’re particularly annoying about this show

OFMD is not the first queer show to ever exist. if anything, it's a late entry in decades of queer media. over a year and a half since the first few episodes aired, everyone knows that OFMD is queer. that doesn't make it particularly special

but back in March? this is the trailer that dropped in February of 2022, 2 weeks before the premier. if you're used to seeing queer chemistry in shows that aren't intended to be queer, you might see the hints between Ed and Stede here. but to most people? it's just a silly little pirate comedy. just guys being dudes. the trailer doesn't even hint at the other 2 canonical queer relationships in the show -- the closest it gets suggesting romance is the music and the pink in the poster

so when people watched this show in March 2022, they went into it expecting subtext and nothing else. to them, it was like watching Sherlock or Supernatural or Merlin in the 2010s. if you were in any of those fandoms -- especially Sherlock and Supernatural -- you know what it was like; constant jokes at our expense, being mocked for creating explicit fanwork, made fun of by the creators and within the show itself. if we saw queer subtext, that was our problem. this was a time when you pretended NOT to be in fandom, for fear of ridicule. we kept our fanwork to ourselves, we DID NOT share it with the cast, and we accepted that our favourite ships would probably never be canon. maybe one day, if we were lucky, we'd have a show where the subtext wasn't mockery as much as deliberate foreshadowing -- but that had to be YEARS away

right?

OFMD was never billed as a queer show, not in the beginning. there was no LGBTQ+ tag on (HBO) Max, it wasn't on anyone's list of upcoming queer shows in 2022, it flew under the radar through most of its first season. this was a show about pirates, and sure, some of them were queer. but not the LEADS. if you think they're romantically involved, that's must be fandom brain poisoning

except the 9th episode aired, and they kissed. and the show said "you're not crazy for thinking they have chemistry because they really do. it's been a romance this whole time". and in the 10th episode, Stede realizes that he's in love

(not mandating you watch this clip if you don't care for the show, but there's something that feels particularly earth shattering about no one saying the word gay but knowing that Stede's realizing he is, that it's completely unambiguous and explicit in a way that only straight romances are usually allowed to be)

this is why people freaked out about this show. no one knew. even the creator, David Jenkins, was surprised when WE were surprised that it was gay for real -- he set out to write a love story, using all the tried and true beats of a rom com. he'd never even heard of the term queerbaiting. he looked at historical Blackbeard and Stede Bonnet and thought "oh, there's something here" and just...wrote that, with very little fanfare, like it was inevitable. like it was obvious. of course Jim and Pam end up together. of course Buttercup and Westley end up together. what kind of disappointing ending would it be if You've Got Mail ended with the main characters just going their separate ways?

so of course Ed and Stede are in love

look, i get it. we're annoying and won't shut the fuck up about this show that seems mediocre at best. i watched the whole thing back in march, thought "huh, that was cool" and was sure that i'd forget about it in a few days

an hour after looking at fanart on twitter, i was lost in the fucking sauce

there's just so much to unpack from a mere 10 episodes. it covers racism, toxic masculinity, gender expression, sexuality, trauma and abuse. and i don't think we should overlook the fact that the non-white characters in this show get to be fully human in a way i haven't seen in my favourite shows in recent memory

additionally, most OFMD are 25 or older. we're not people who've been spoiled by queer rep, who don't get how hard it used to be, how you'd have to grovel for scraps, how shipping and fanfiction was a way to find queer rep where we thought there never would be. we've been here. we're annoying about this show because for a lot of us, it's the first time we've been treated like our queerness isn't an anomaly that needs to be relegated to its own section, that needs to be praised for the bare minimum of acknowledging that we exist. it's not pulling punches to avoid scaring away a straight audience. it just is.

OFMD for me is like when i watched Black Panther for the first time and realized that this is what white people felt all the time. have there been other black superhero movies? of course! does Disney fucking suck? BOY does it. but that was the first time i got to sit in a movie theater and watch a mainstream film that looked at Africa and said "look at how beautiful you are, exactly as you are"

and idk. i think that's really cool

#scarrlet rambles #ofmd #cant wait for all 5 notes on this post #and dont be fucking mean i'm not trying to start shit #anon is off btw if you want to try that #we're going to have a productive conversation or none at all we're adults here #for some reason tumblr didn't save my links and stuff THANKS TUMBLR #anyway the typo version is floating around now i guess 🥲

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celluloidbroomcloset · 3 months

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OK, let’s say it, because we all know is it: Our Flag Means Death was cancelled because it’s gay.

It is a big gay show that eschews queer stereotypes and tropes, that doesn’t indulge in the straight cishet fantasy that being queer means being fundamentally unhappy, that refuses to queerbait or bury your gays, that doesn’t even glance at the idea that it would be better or easier to be straight.

It’s gay. It’s a gay show with a romance between two men as the main plot arc, and minor arcs about other romances. It shows queer people having fun and going on adventures and having complicated, rich lives in a fantasy world usually reserved for straight people. And it’s not a fantasy with hard-bodied twenty-somethings being cute and plastic and untouchable. It is people who look real, who look like folks in the neighborhood, who are middle-aged and BIPOC and disabled and fat and slender and short and tall. And they are gay.

If Max didn’t know how to market it, it’s because OFMD is gay. It��s not a workplace comedy or a buddy show or a pirate adventure that just happens to have queer characters - its queerness is baked into it. It is a critique of toxic masculinity and abuse and straight society, and it is gay. Super fucking gay. Stede Bonnet levels of gay.

They cancelled it because it’s gay and that should indeed worry anyone in any other fandom because the powers that be think that this is disposable, because much worse, much less successful shows where straight and white is the default just stride into another season without a pause.

And if you buy the narrative that this is anything other than real honest to fucking God homophobia, you are about to get hit with some real tough truths in the near future.

#OFMD #our flag means death #got mad again

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serpentarius · 4 months

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been trying to wrap my head around the cancellation of "Our Flag Means Death" and why it hurts so fucking much. lots of folks who are much more eloquent than I have summed it up perfectly, but I still think it’s important I add my voice to the matter.

It really, really sucks that the hurt is being compounded on us every time another queer/minority-led show gets prematurely cancelled. and for a long while, we also had to deal with the many shows that deliberately queerbaited us, which was a shitty and traumatic experience unto its own. And even though we’ve largely surpassed that early-‘00s-flavoured brand of queerbait now, mainstream queer media is still predominantly white-led. With the cancellation of OFMD, we've lost one of the very few intersectional queer shows in the mainstream. Shouldn’t we be beyond asking for crumbs at this point? Shouldn’t we get unabashedly intersectional shows helmed by and starring queer, BIPOC, and trans folks without them being axed for no rhyme or reason?

It’s exhausting at this point, honestly. OFMD has done so well in terms of viewership and engagement and fan response—almost entirely due to word of mouth and little thanks to the Max marketing team, mind you—and even still the show got cancelled? Can they make it make sense????

For me, the thing most akin to this OFMD situation was when Sense8 got cancelled. And yes, the fandom fought, and we eventually DID get a movie that wrapped things up years later! That gives me hope for OFMD, that maybe another network will pick it up, or maybe they’ll be able to make a movie someday. But what makes me sad about cases like Sense8 is knowing that the creators still had to force the narrative around the amount of time they were given. That the corporate overlords who only care about numbers and profit dictated how much time they had to wrap up their story.

And it fucking kills me that DJ only wanted one more season. One more season to complete the vision.

I'm just so mad that queer people are constantly being jerked around and used for profit and then left high and dry. And then we're given excuses like "oh there's no budget" or "oh there's not enough viewership, that's all it is". like, sure, maybe those are contributing factors, but then I look at all the useless garbage shows that have little viewership and high budgets that keep going forever and then I think "hmmmm, the math ain't mathing." It's fucking transparent; the corporations can spew all they want with their rainbow capitalism and talks about diversity, but the evidence is clear, and they can't convince me homophobia/racism/transphobia/etc. is not a factor in these decisions.

Anyways, back to OFMD. OFMD made me fall in love with fandom again. I drifted away from fandom for a while in my 20s, and while OFMD wasn't the first fandom that drew me back into the madness, it's certainly the largest. The sheer amount of creativity both within the show and outside of it has blown me away; I've read some of the best fics, seen some of the best art, and witnessed some of the most incredible creativity from people in this fandom.

And let's not forget the role of the show's creators and how they've interacted with us fans. They made us feel seen. And made us feel loved and valid, even when we were being weird and loud and horny. It's so fucking rare to see that. But they understood; understood that the show they made was for us, for any of us who've been marginalized or made to feel Othered or different or stuck in life or unsure of our identities. And they gave us so much love for it.

The story... man. The unique combination of quirky humour and bright visuals and dark, introspective moments, the gorgeous costumes and soft, lovely, unabashed queerness, and veteran actors and new actors all getting to shine, brilliant comedic actors getting to show off their dramatic chops and vice versa. For me, seeing Rhys Darby - an actor I've loved for a long time, but who I never thought I'd see in a leading role - getting to be the romantic lead in a queer role? And seeing acclaimed director/producer/screenwriter/actor Taika Waititi play opposite Rhys, as an indigenous Blackbeard? Fucking incredible. OFMD Edward Teach you will always be famous to me.

Anyways... despite my long ramblings here, I still don’t think I've been able to get to the root of WHY exactly this show has inched its way under my skin and stayed with me in the way it has. Maybe I'll spend years trying to understand it. But I DO know that it's in part to do with seeing both older queers AND a diverse range of queerness onscreen, in a way that I've never seen in media before. I DO know that OFMD has forced me to look inwardly, and allowed me to realize some important things about myself. About my own queerness, my own identity, things I'm still figuring out. I've cherished being able to see myself in Stede, in Ed, and each of the crew members. In Roach’s love for cooking, in Oluwande’s ability to mediate; in Jim’s quick temper, in the way Izzy builds walls to guard his heart. In Buttons’ quirkiness, in Wee John’s sass, in Frenchie’s ability to turn pain into humour; in The Swede’s silliness, in Lucius’ bluntness, in Pete’s soft heart beneath the skepticism. Lastly, OFMD has inspired me. To create, to write, to draw, to devour other peoples' works and worlds while I sit in sheer, overflowing joyousness at their talent.

so yeah. the news of this cancellation is upsetting and hurtful and disappointing. And it's making us cry, and it's making us grieve, and may make us hollow and numb at times because we've lost yet another thing we love so deeply before it was meant to go. It's so much more than "just a TV show". It means more to us than any passive mindless idiotic mind-numbing bullshit - because even though there's a time and a place and a purpose for that type of media, it's the thought-provoking work, the work that creators pour their entire hearts and souls into, that hit us deep in our own souls. The work that changes our lives. The work that has the ability to save lives, as I know OFMD has done for so many.

please know I'm sending immense amounts of love and strength to those of you who are also hurting. we'll get through this, one way or another, and I'll keep up with the hope that we'll get more someday; but in the meantime, I'm holding you tight. ❤️️🫂

#our flag means death #ofmd #my thoughts #ofmd thoughts #sorry for the long rambles I just needed to scream into the void #I feel helpless right now but I also wanna fight #sending love ❤️

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vroomvroomwee · 7 months

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I think OFMD has a much much bigger impact than we realise.

Recently, there's indeed been an increase in diversity, especially with queer characters, in media. But it's always somehow along the lines of pushing a little bit just to test the waters, just enough so that people will think you're progressive, while not daring to anger the Conservative audience. Somehow, dancing on the line between inclusive and not diverging from the norm which creates a sort of compromise if you will, a product that doesn't give either side what it wants.

The people who are searching for themselves in these modern characters are left shallow, are left to settle with the barest minimum, inclusivity that's half-assed and not so much well intentioned as it is a cashgrab to lure you in.

And David Jenkins completely swerved around that. He decided he's not going to play that game of fetch with his fans. No no no. He went all out. No more pretense. No more selfishness and greed. And this next part that I'm going to mention is the point of the post.

David Jenkins cracked his audiences. He disected their brains and figured out their wants and wishes. These past couple decades, ever since franchises like POTC, Harry Potter, and Marvel came out, Hollywood has understood this notion where it believes people want to see quality rather than soul. That it wants to see big explosions and high-tech suits and resolution upped to the max. That might have been the case up to several years ago, but lately, with new audiences coming up, these things have changed.

Now that everything in the real world is continuously and relentlessly going to shit from every direction, with newer generations getting a picture of what's to come and wanting no part in it, losing hope every day, people don't really care about those things anymore. They don't care about how big your budget is or how oscar-worthy your movie is. They care about comfort. They care about safety. They care about love.

And David Jenkins realised that. He realised it much much sooner than some big studios are still failing to do. We all realise the show didn't have much of a budget, hell it doesn't even give a shit about historical accuracy or consistency. But what it did care about were realistic characters. Characters who have different personalities (unlike every new Marvel character lately), who are complex and nuanced, who have different body types, different genders, different nationalities, different races, different sexualities. Everyone is their own person. Everyone has a history and a reason for their actions. And not just that but the WAY David gave a giant fuck you to every queerbait show and movie was impressive and BOLD as fuck. He saw that game of playpretense and decided he didn't want any part in it. Because quite frankly, it's cruel. And by caring about his audiences he managed to take the entire world by storm

Finally, the world might realise what viewers are actually looking for. It's not millions and millions of dollars spent on making the most expensive and grand movie of the year. Its love. It's comfort. This man basically brought a new renaissance to film making. And I cencerely hope studios realise what this means (and also start paying their workers!!)

#ofmd #ourflagmeansdeath #our flag means death #david jenkins

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novalunosiss · 2 years

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It’s almost been 24 hours since vol 2 came out and I’m still super pissed off, so here’s a list of everything wrong in volume 2.

Byler. Queerbait of the fucking century??? I would’ve been significantly less upset if they hadn’t advertised/marketed it so hard during pride month. And making the queer kid the sad gay vessel through which the straight couple thrives is nothing short of homophobic.

The deaths. They advertised this season as being particularly dangerous/full of death, which was a straight up lie. The only people who died were either antagonists or minor background characters, with the exception of Eddie (though it was extremely obvious from the start that he was canon fodder, much like Bob- despite how much I liked Eddie’s character, there was never a doubt in my mind that he wasn’t going to die.)

Max’s “death”. So I know I just did a section on the deaths but this one pissed me off so much I had to give it it’s own seperate section. Max’s “death” was a total copout. Don’t get me wrong, I love her character. But I wish she did die. Having someone die and be brought back to life is such a terrible, cliche, overused trope. It’s too safe of a choice. Where is the danger? I want to actually be scared that the characters I love might not make it out alive. And since when could El bring people back to life? That’s never been explored in the show before, making it completely out of place and confusing when watching the scene. Having Max die would’ve been impactful, and shown to the audience that any of the characters can die, not just new ones, or unimportant background ones. It would’ve raised the stakes! The scene where she “died” was heartbreaking and powerful, but then they negated that by bringing her back to life, rendering the scene pointless. They either should’ve actually genuinely killed her, or not have her “die” at all. Having that “in-between” sort of situation where she technically died, but came back to life (albeit in a coma) was super flaky, and imo, bad writing.

Speaking of bad writing, the time skip! This is genuinely one of the worst things I’ve seen implemented in the show. I generally don’t like time skips anyway, but at least the one at the end of s3 made sense. The main drama of that season was resolved, and they needed to show the Byers moving away. The time skip this season, however, made 0 fucking sense. The drama hadn’t been resolved, it just skipped like half of the climax and the entirety of the falling action, and went straight to the resolution (which wasn’t even a resolution at all). 2 days is a pretty big time skip to implement after skipping half the climax. What happened during those two days??? It was confusing as fuck, and none of the characters actions/behaviour during the “resolution” phase of the story made sense, maybe with the exception of Dustin and Lucas, who were shown to be grieving unlike almost everyone else. You’re telling me that Nancy, Robin and Steve just fought fucking Vecna, almost died, and some of their friends did die (if you count Max) and two days later they’re happily packing up a bunch of old belongings to donate, without a care in the world? And during that scene, there seemed to be little to no concern about Mike’s whereabouts from the entire Wheeler family until he actually showed up. They mentioned they’d been trying to contact them for days, but nothing about their demeanour beforehand implied concern.

The monologue. Need I even say more? It was cheesy, cringey, and made no narrative sense. The reasoning Mike gave for being unable to tell El he loved her was one of the stupidest reasons I’ve seen in media, ever. Where was the “amazing monologue” we were promised by the Duffers? That sure as hell isn’t what I’d call amazing. Finn is a great actor, and he’s done amazing monologues before (*cough cough*, the shed scene) so that isn’t on him, it’s on the shitty script. “I feel like my life first started when I met you in the woods”? Bullshit, and such a cruel thing to say in front of Will, who’s life was literally turned upside down on the exact same day. “I loved you since the moment I saw you”? Love at first sight is a cringey trope. Mike was 12 when he first met Eleven. He probably didn’t even know the meaning of love, especially when you take a look at how dysfunctional his parents marriage is/Nancy, his older sisters relationship at the time was. Also, how can he say he loved her the moment he saw her when he spent most of s1 trying to get rid of her (saying he was going to send her back to pennhurst) and calling her a “weapon”? El could’ve found strength to beat Vecna in something far more significant than a teenage boy telling her he loves her, but noooo.

Will’s painting. I really feel like I don’t have to elaborate on this one. It just fucking sucked. They built it up like it was going to be some really important declaration of love from Will to Mike, only to have it be used to help further Mileven. Also the actual painting was ass, and all the fan theories about it were way better and more meaningful. (Like the idea we all had of the swingset where Mike and Will first met, or even just a painting of the two of them as their D&D characters, but SEPERATE from the rest of the group so it was actually obvious what the painting meant.)

The upside down thing with Henry?? I don’t even know what’s going on there. It was super confusing. Is the mind flayer actually Henry? Did El create the upside down or was it there before? Why did it look like that when Henry first got sent there, but looks like Hawkins now? I know they’ll likely answer these questions next season, but there’s just too many questions and knowing now how shit the duffers are at writing, I doubt they’ll all be answered satisfactorily.

The terrible character development. By that, I mean that there was none. Literally no characters had any development. They were all exactly the same as they were at the start of the season. El is still dependent on Mike/isn’t her own person. Mike is still a fucking asshole who treats his friends like shit. Will is still in the closet and hiding his true feelings from everyone around him. Nancy and Jonathan are still lying to each other. Steve is still pining after Nancy. Robin is still pining after Vickie. I could go on and on.

The Duffers hate minorities + poor people. Will and Robin, the two queer characters, don’t get well rounded love interests like all of the straight characters, and Will in particular is made to suffer constantly. Lucas and Erica, the two black characters, are both physically assaulted. Max and Eddie, the two poorest characters, who are living in a trailer park, fucking die. (from @hellfireds) Oh, also? The Duffers filmed parts of s4 in a fucking Nazi prison, where Jewish people were held against their wills and killed. (from @artmuseumsandoldbooks)

I’m going to keep updating this list as I think of more things that are wrong with vol 2. There’s already so many things I could add if I decided to include the shit wrong with vol 1 as well, but vol 2 was significantly worse so I’m just gonna stick to that. Feel free to suggest anything else I should add to the list

In conclusion, FUCK THE DUFFERS

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777cherry-blossom777 · 2 years

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SPOILERS FOR STRANGER THINGS VOLUME 2

Ok here’s a list of why everyone is saying volume 2 was so much worse than every other part (part 6).

Im putting all the groups in seperate posts so its not too long. Here’s just the overall reasons it sucked.

GENERAL

1. The fucking two day time skip. Oh please. First of all, that was the most pathetic excuse to not show everyone trying to get out of the upside down and/or grieving Eddie. It was like the duffers could see all the loose ends they left and just decided to make that time skip so if ever anyone asked they can say “oh yeah that was addressed in the two days afterwards”. Second, you’re telling me that I’m only two days, everyone made a miraculous recovery except Max and Dustin??? Where did his limp even come from? Duffers you can’t just give him a limp to show that he’s been in a fight he has to have actually INJURED HIS LEG. No scars or bruises on the teens faces, only Lucas’s black eye, Dustin’s limp, and Max’s everything. Ok so they got Max. But literally everyone else? And they’re not even upset about Max or Eddie??? What???

2. They went on and on about time this and time that and there was literally nothing to do with time. The clock was just to say that four people had to die before times up (great pun but wtf). With all the actors saying this season would be carnage, I was expecting an Avengers Endgame type thing, where El somehow reversed time. But, much like pretty much every other plot point from volume 1, it was completely ignored.

3. Angela? She was just gone? Mike and El never discussed it again? Yet another point from volume 1 they forgot about.

4. Will’s birthday. I still can’t believe they forgot that.

5. How did no one in Hawkins notice the giant glowing red x in the ground from all the murder sites in the earthquake zone??? What?

6. The whole team just let Eddie be called a murderer??? And they just left his body in the upside down and were all fine except Dustin??? Once again, what???

7. Max’s mum not being in the hospital room and her trailer probably being destroyed seeing as it was right next to Eddie’s. Obviously she’s most likely dead, and yet they never addressed that?

8. The relationship between the mind flayer and Vecna was never addressed?

9. The fact that the upside down was frozen in time was never addressed???

10. All the queerbaiting. And using their only queer characters to further straight relationships.

Honestly this whole volume felt like it was made by completely different people with no idea what they’re doing.

#stranger things #stranger things 4 #duffer brothers hate squad #why volume 2 sucked #byler #will byers #robin x vickie #ronance #robin buckley #mike wheeler #eddie munson #steddie #nancy wheeler #vickie stranger things

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daenerysies · 2 months

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“laena/rhaenyra wasn’t even a paragraph why are you so mad that they were scrapped for the show?”

oh i don’t know janice maybe because it being in a historical text written 200 years after the fact by ultra religious MEN who despise women and queerness all together IS noteworthy? ‘more than fond of’ is an allegory used multiple times in the asoiaf main timeline to describe romantic feelings and you’re mad that people read that phrase the way it was intended? not to mention it’s used in conjunction with ‘while the princess misliked her stepmother’ like COME ON at this point you’re being deliberately stupid. i’m sorry they weren’t scissoring each other for 200 pages but in actuality what did you expect? acting like rhaenyra and alicent were so so in love when we were only shown a couple scenes of them getting along max during a six month period. the only way that ship will ever be canon is through the actors. the show leaves crumbs for asshats like you because they know you’ll bend over backwards to defend them. apparently it’s still okay to queerbait in the year of our lord 2k24; along with sidelining a woman of color because diversity was important until it came to fleshing out a black woman and her canon sapphicness.

laena, for the limited time we had her character, was fiery, bold, and adventurous. she claimed the largest and oldest dragon alive at 12! the show choosing to racebend her only to mitigate her affect on the plot is gross! they did it to keep the ‘what if they were in love’ guessing game and gift it to a white woman. a white woman who vehemently HATED rhaenyra. we just wanted the story to have complex and multilayered characters rhaenyra has NO FRIENDS besides the first *two* episodes that is the definition of shitty storytelling. a targaryen princess at the height of her families power the literal protagonist of the dance and you all want her to be a lonely spinster boy mom who’s not like the other girls so bad when she was literally surrounded by women all of whom she cared about dearly. multiple relationships with others helps bring a story to life and would’ve helped tremendously with making the dumb as rocks audience understand rhaenyra’s character and how she was a girls girl in a time where you really couldn’t afford to be one which is why it’s so tragic when she starts turning on them during the dance but nooo the ONLY relationship that matters is a busted up friendship that the writers have in a chokehold for no good reason and fuck everyone else that these women might care about right? fuck rhaenyra fuck laena fuck alicent fuck their kids fuck their GRANDKIDS they’re all just mostly blank slates anyway what impact is their death going to have on the narrative? next to nothing because of these fuckass decisions. let’s just all agree to throw stones at glass houses THAT would be more fulfilling for the show than half of the shit they gave us.

#house of the dragon #hotd critical #rhaenyra targaryen #laena velaryon #laenyra #anti rhaenicent #like where’s her ladies in waiting?#where’s at least a friendship with laena?#gone bc the show deemed all of it unimportant in the face of rhaenicent #character building is IMPORTANT #relationship building is IMPORTANT #world building is IMPORTANT #just like how they’ve continuously screwed over the children too #the heart of the conflict and they have liminal if any personality #how and why are we supposed to care?#i need rhaenicents to take a back seat and stop talking over laenyra #your ship is LESS canon despite all of your pre conceived headcanons #rant post

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swanqueenelmaxshadowhunters · 6 months

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Max's reaction just makes it seem like she was the one who confessed her love for El, not Mike.

I wish I could say this scene is funny, but after everything we've been through with other ships and the relentless queerbait the show runners put us through, like with ouat and swanqueen (or like supercorp in supergirl - not that I ship them but anyway) we're just burned, yk?

Pretty much every time Max looks at El, she has that yearning look on her face. Especially during season 3.

El has too, but less. I think that maybe because she's not used to deal with emotions and is still learning but anyway.

Or like in season 4 when El decides to leave the lab because her friends *Max* are in danger. I mean, she cares about them all, ofc, but she only decided to leave the lab when she learned that Max was in danger.

Owens had told El before, that her friends were in danger, that they were pretty much in the eye of the storm, and yet she accepted to go with him and do all that to get her powers back, but the moment she discovered Max was in danger, she just needed to leave and get to her.

It doesn't matter if she wasn't ready to fight Vecna yet and she could die. El just needed to get to Max. So much that she found a way to get to her even from miles away.

And what gets me is that when El finally finds Max, she asks "Are you real? Did I make you?" Like, of all the things Max could have "made" to save her, it was El.

Also Netflix released one of the videos for stranger things day with this caption!! Like seriously??

We see the signs and we try not to ship bc we know we'll just be burned again but it's there over and over again.

Sorry for my incoherent rumbling.

#elmax #eleven hopper #max mayfield #stranger things #mad max #max x eleven #eleven stranger things #elmax stranger things #elmax supremacy

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eddiezpaghetti · 3 months

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Your perspective on Byler is super interesting, thank you for these posts! I agree that Byler isn't queerbaiting, but what if it's still an accident in the sense that they intended to tell a story of unrequited love from Will's pov (like Steve/Nancy, or Dustin/Max in season 2), and this is what those shots of Will between Mike and El are for, and didn't realize that Mike could be seen by a part of the audience as queer and possibly loving Will back?

Okay, for the most part, I'd just be reiterating the post I already made. So let's narrow this down to something more specific. Why is it not like Steve and Nancy or Max and Dustin?

Let's look at Max and Dustin first. I'll make a post about Steve and Nancy later because this wound up being longer than I meant for it to be.

What first comes to mind with Max and Dustin is the moment it really ended. When Dustin saw Lucas and Max together in the junkyard. If Dustin and Max were similar to Mike and Will, parallel to them, then the moment Dustin saw Lucas and Max together in the junkyard would be the same beat in their stories to the moment Mike and El reunited in the desert.

However, take a look at how they're shot.

This, versus

This.

And, just as important...

This scene.

AND this scene.

As I said in my first post, the reunion scene is shot that way--with Will making direct fucking contact with the camera--because he's supposed to be the one you're paying attention to in that scene. Not El and Mike.

Likewise, you're supposed to be paying attention to Dustin's feelings in the shot where he's watching Lucas and Max, but you'll notice some key differences.

One, Lucas and Max arriving together is shot as significant, as the focus, before it shifts to Dustin's reaction, instead of Dustin's reaction being shoved INTO their arrival. There's an over-the-shoulder shot to show that he (and Steve) have noticed Lucas and Max arriving, but the focus is still on Lucas and Max, reiterating what the audience already knew, that they're blatantly going to be The Couple, as was made pretty clear by their previous scenes, which brings me to the next point.

Their previous scenes. Their previous scenes. Lucas and Max had previous scenes leading up to that moment in the junkyard. THOSE--Lucas filling Max in, showing up at her house, convincing her to sneak out so that he can prove that everything he's been telling her is true and winning her trust, and Max giving him at least that much benefit of the doubt--were the real equivalent to El and Mike reuniting in the desert (isolated from Will). You want the audience to care about a couple? This is what you do. You give them private moments. And I was truly remiss in my first post not to point out that...Jonathan and Argyle were also there. So was fucking Brenner. Why didn't we see them? Why was the scene shot in such a way that you briefly forgot their existence but Will Byers was staring into your soul? You know why.

Getting back on topic, the final piece of the puzzle here is the scene that followed Dustin accepting that Max liked Lucas and not him. Once more, Lucas and Max have a private, tender scene. Emphasis on private. Once more, we get them alone. They talk, get everything they have to say out in the open, and only once the conversation comes to a lull does the story move on.

You know what the equivalent scene would be for Mike and El? Well, you've got one of two options, and neither is great for them.

First, you have Mike in that scene where he makes the glasses and he starts to say something to El but immediately gets interrupted by Argyle throwing pizza on the table, ker-splat.

And second, you have the infamous "I love you" scene. Which they are emphatically not alone in. Famously, Will starts that conversation in the first place, and his face is hovering over Mike's shoulder the whole damn time. (Again, this could have been shot in ways that made us forget he existed for a little while, and the show decided not to do that.) But, I really must impress the importance of this...

EL. AND MIKE. WERE NOT. EVEN. IN. THE SAME SCENE. AT ALL.

They weren't even in the same place! Not consciously, at least! Sometimes the camera would show El on the counter and it'd be, like, the tip of her nose and a little bit of her brow, but that does not count. That's like showing the phone in a phone call. Her body is basically an inanimate object that only allows verbal communication at this point. Then who was phone? EL WAS PHONE.

Okay, outdated memes aside, my point is that this is not how romantic scenes work. There are things missing, things wrong, and things very present in places where they should be absent. And the creators clearly know this because those are the rules they've laid out before and the path they've followed since. Mike and El never had any private, intimate, romantic scenes in season 4, despite having them earlier in the show. This is carving out the trajectory of their relationship moving forward. It is a vector, it has direction and force, and it is going straight toward the bitter end.

So I guess this is mostly about why El and Mike aren't happening than why Will and Mike are. Which is only part of the equation, true enough. To play devil's advocate here, maybe it's possible that the result is that El goes on to be happily single because there's so much more to life than stupid boys, Mike lets go, and Will pines for the rest of his days. Sure, whatever. Possibility, I guess.

One thing, though.

You wanna know who did have private, intimate scenes before and after the desert reunion?

Ya bois Michael Wheeler and William Byers, that's who.

Edit: I meant to say one more thing that I'm just realizing I forgot to mention. Dustin's face while he was watching Max and Lucas was clearly visible while Will's is not. We can see HIM, but not his FACE. This is like placing a wrapped box in the middle of the kitchen table and saying "Do Not Open Until Xmas". We're gonna unwrap that later.

#byler #meta #anon #As I said I'll do Nancy and Steve later.#Not getting to them isn't an 'I'll have to think about it'.#I've had my argument for them in my head from the second I saw this ask over breakfast.#This is more of an 'I need to practice guitar and get some sleep at some point and I don't think I can do that AND go into Part 2 tonight'#Does anyone else have any questions though?

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kocch · 2 years

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when I say that Will being canonically gay in stranger things is the biggest proof we need for byler it’s not simply because we know he is gay and that’s it - there is context that comes from being in fandoms for something like 12 yrs or more.

first of all, I’ve started watching ST because of people talking about will and byler on twitter (in july), as a person who barely knew anything about it (I didn’t even know mike and el were a couple, so I was super surprised they decided to make it romantic in s1 when I didn’t really feel like it would happen).

i was a sherlock fan who shipped sherlock/john. i’ve shipped non-canon couples for a long time (fandom spaces are queer spaces a lot of times). i know what it feels like to read things from a text that could imply things - a text that could be queercoded, depending on interpretation. i know what it feels like to have fun with fanon and ship things that are potentially there, but not textually canon (like steddie or ronance, imo). it’s fun and it’s mostly harmless, until the writers decide to use it as queerbait to make their fandom stay with them for a long time because they’re rooting for their queer ship (i think supernatural is the worst example of this, as they confirmed the one-sided love and then killed the queer character and sent him to hell LMAOOO). those are milking the fandoms, knowing the strongest core of a fandom is the hardcore ones (many queers) and not the casual public.

i’m a big fan of hannibal, yuuri!! on ice and she-ra, three shows that are mostly queercoded until they aren’t (and they confirm the queer ship to be canon). i swear, people CAN tell. you can see when there is a creator and writer and team who truly wants to tell a queer story/relationship, even when they can’t show it openly (like hannibal or yoi). as a person of the community myself, i’ve been able to tell it was canon. it’s different from fans just shipping things, or queerbaiting, there is care and intention and writing and parallels and romantic framing and so many things that make you see that it is there.

(now, for byler i hope it’s different. every straight couple in ST has at least one kiss and i think byler HAS to have at least one (dramatic, passionate, show-stopping) kiss because it would be totally unfair if they don’t. they have to be totally and utterly canon)

what is different about byler and stranger things, compared to sherlock or other shows for the straights?

it’s will being canonically gay. bbc sherlock would never do that. bbc sherlock would mock feelings. he would laugh about love. he would probably be even a bit homophobic, just for the sake of it.

and it’s not just will being canonically gay, it’s his love for mike being canon. i’m sure other people have said it, but will’s love for mike is NOT JUST A CRUSH. it’s not ridiculed. sure, it’s used to forward a straight ship (that is sinking), but the story is not finished yet and i want to believe that byler is endgame and the writing in s4 was meant to 1) leave things uncomplete and unseattled between mike and will, between lies and non-confessed feelings; and will being in the middle of a relationship that is sinking. 2) mike responding to will’s feelings of love and to no one else, not even el begging for him to say he loves her. 3) making EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHERS feel sorry for will. cry for will. pity will. root for will. root for GAY WILL. (people who think he is straight and he loves el don’t count, those are morons)

will’s love for mike is LOVE in capital letters. it is not a crush. it’s never treated as something to laugh about, or something like a one-sided crush like Dustin’s crush for Max or Steve’s crush for Robin, those feelings are clearly more superficial and you can see that they’re not gonna happen from miles away. will’s love is A LOVE THAT MOVES MOUNTAINS. it’s totally romantic. deeply rooted. it’s like those loves you can see between jancy or lumax or even more jopper in s4, a love that saves one another, that makes people do crazy things, a love that is inherently part of the character, that makes them FEEL and DO and LIVE and you can’t imagine them not being in love with that person.

these writers know how to write that type of love. each canon ship they made (even s1/2 milkvan in some ways), i’ve loved it. they know what they’re doing, how to make it feel like it’s true love even without writing grand love confessions or making them kiss every other episode. it’s in THE NARRATIVE, the things the characters do and say and imply.

and even more, about byler... something i wrote in a fic i’ll never finish but imo it’s the biggest point we can take away from will’s love and confession in s4. WILL SEES MIKE. will sees mike for who he is and loves him anyways. he sees the best and worst in him and still loves him and knows him and grounds him to reality and tells Mike how he could be the best version of himself, pushing him to fight for it (you are the heart). will’s love is ancient and deep, it’s a love that we don’t even know when it started, it’s always been there, it’s always been part of will (and part of mike, because it IS MUTUAL). it’s like breathing. like the sun every morning, it’s just there. it’s not going away. it’s not even a choice, at this point, there is an helplessness in the love will feels - it’s too big and too much for him he would love to run away from it, but still he can’t deny his heart.

and that’s why i think byler is endgame. because will is canonically gay, and he is in love, and no one is making fun of him for that. his love for mike is serious, profound, romantic, genuine. it makes you cry and root for him. it’s LOVE. the strongest of forces. and every byler scene is made with care. it’s never taken lightly, not even their fights, they always matter. there is no mocking in there. no sneer. it’s treated genuinely. almost like the creators are telling you: “look here, look at them, it matters. it matters to them and it should matter to you. there is something serious brewing here, and it is romantic love”

#byler #personal #mike wheeler #hello i'm a romantic #idk if i already expressed these things in other posts or tags bc i cant remember what i say in here and i waht i simply think and it's bee #two months of me thinking about them so i'm sure these idea have evolved with time and i'm still digesting them fjhrfijrh #but yeah. YEAH.#will byers #i just think will's love for mike is neat and mike's love for will is even more neat #this is probably me thinking and digesting 200 analysis posts i've read in weeks but also AHHH I NEED TO SCREAM #irbgrig9tu #me pretending to be media literate as a queer kid who has consumed and fantasized about queer ship for 2/3 of their lives #no but for real i finished watching st s4 and i felt: wow. this is differnet. this has the potential to be groundbreaking and the duffers #could become icons in mainstream media just for making them happen. wow will is canonically gay in a show that is THAT BIG? in a bro-media?#it's a bro-coded genre and they're gay??? ?WILL IS GAY??? WHAT IS GOING ON #i was a confused queer for a whole two days #My st talks

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unknowmiau · 13 days

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Reasons why I think byler will not be endgame

Mainly because of the hate that Noah is receiving, I don't think Netflix will risk losing audiences. Besides, I don't know which couple is more popular: Mileven or Byler.

They have not given us anything regarding the couple, we already saw the leaked photos of Mike with El. I know that if it's real they can't reveal the big 'plot twist' but until when do you think the Byler fandom will maintain the hype? Don't get me wrong, byler is my roman empire and I will continue shipping them even if they don't become canon 😢 we need something to prove it's not just queerbaiting.

The show it's not about love, They are going to focus more on the final conflict of defeating Vecna and wake up Max.

and finally the most important: the three water falls 😂😂😂

#byler endgame #stranger things #byler #will byers #mike wheeler

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blatterpussbunnyfromhell · 7 months

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Did Silver kill Flint?

I keep seeing cold ass takes in the Black Sails side of tumblr that make my blood boil.

Look, I got into Black Sails in 2017, three weeks after the finale aired. Back then, there seemed to be an understanding that the "Silver killed Flint" interpretation was just a fringe theory from straight people made uncomfortable by the queer lead getting a happy ending. Personally, it was my first encounter with the phrase "unbury your gays" (having learnt "bury your gays" a year earlier with The 100). It seemed to be generally accepted that Flint lived, and that this was the whole point.

Now, it would appear that a shift has happened in the fandom, where the idea of Silver killing Flint is no longer treated as a theory by straight weirdos but as a canon, onscreen event, and these posts come from queer fans. It seems to come from younger fans who were about 12 or 13 in 2017. It's so mindboggling to me.

The arguments for this Silver-Killed-Flint thing is usually the same two: birds flying away and Silver's men turning around in the forest, as in reaction to a noise, which is interpreted as a gunshot.

Like, I'm just elaborating on a rant I sent to my friends earlier today here but, if Silver killed Flint, then :

Why would we be shown an entire sequence with one of Silver's henchmen looking for Thomas where he is?

If Thomas and Flint are dead, why aren't we shown their deaths? It's an actual rule in cinema that a character whose death isn't shown on screen isn't dead, a rule that the show does follow (we see Billy's funeral but not his corpse). Besides, Black Sails doesn't shy away from showing death on screen, even for main characters. Then, why not show how Thomas died instead of telling us? Why not show us Silver shooting Flint? The writers trust their viewers to understand the pattern, and understand that the reason we do not see their deaths is because they aren't dead.

Why would Silver bring up Thomas to Flint if he'd planned on killing him? Or if, as I've also seen it said, it was just a lie he made on the spot for Madi ?

And talking about Madi, I've seen A LOT of people saying she would never forgive Silver. And to that I genuinely have to ask, have you seen their last appearence in the show? I dont mean their argument in the cabin, I mean the scene where Silver sits on top of a hill and turns around to find Madi waiting for him on the path. I mean the scene where he walks towards her and she waits for him. So, my question here, if she wasn't gonna forgive Silver, why is she waiting for him on that hill? Nevermind the fact that Treasure Island's Long John Silver is in a relationship with a Black woman (I've seen posts saying that could be Max, and really wtf??), what is the point of showing us this scene if she's not gonna forgive him? Why not stop their arc at the cabin where she sends him away?

At the time when Black Sails' finale aired, Supernatural was still queerbaiting its audience, and Sherlock ended in a fucking shitshow. People were throwing fits over Bill Potts, Doctor Who's first ever onscreen lesbian companion because she was a lesbian with a masculine name. A year before that, The 100, a very popular tv show at the time, had just killed it's only lesbian character and faced so much uproar and backlash for it. (That was my entry into the LGBT+ community, by the way : the first character to make me think I might actually like women getting killed on screen two scenes after having had sex with the female lead). Sense8's two-hour long finale and Love, Simon wouldn't air for another year.

So yeah, if you weren't into queer media back in 2017 (and omg I sound like such an old twat), I don't think you can understand just how important that ending, with Flint being reunited with the love of his life after so much pain and loss, was.

If your interpretation of Black Sails is that the events of Treasure Island happened the way the book tells you, then I'm sorry to tell you this but you completely missed the point of the show.

#black sails #black sails meta #long post #silverflint #long john silver #james flint #thomas hamilton #james mcgraw #captain flint #ok to rb

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celluloidbroomcloset · 4 months

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OK. I wrote some of this in a vent to @sparklywaistcoat, but I'm gonna say it here.

I'm less sad about there not being a Season 3 and feel more just tearful anger that once again studios and streamers truly don't give a fuck about art or what it means to people or to culture. It’s corporations who just want to reproduce the same boring shit for the same boring people and even when they have something that’s popular and loved, they just can’t see past their own very narrow worldview. I really did think that the second season was going to get chucked once HBO Max restructured and WB merged with Discovery. I was shocked that it ever got released.

There’s such a wonderful scope of art in this world, but streamers won’t give it the space it needs to breathe. So when you get something like OFMD or Reservation Dogs or Good Omens, it’s so hopeful and yet you just sit there in heartbreak, hoping it doesn’t go away, or that it can at least play out as the people who make it want it to. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't, but we have to remember that even when it doesn't, it still means something.

Now, Hollywood has always been like this, but it’s still very hard to see art being treated so callously. It’s like when the Code came in and you look back and see all these lovely things, truly groundbreaking stuff, that got cut off at the knees because of the fucking mainstream conservatives who thought they knew what was best, and the Hollywood studios that went right along with them to keep selling their product.

But the studio system, and the Code, broke, and it is breaking again. We’re in line for a major bursting of cinematic art as creators escape from franchises and the mainstream, a la American Independent cinema. It is already happening. The new studio system, built on streamers and franchises, of which WB and HBOMax is a part, is collapsing. OFMD is a big sign of that—an openly queer, incredibly diverse TV show that kept pushing and pushing through eighteen episodes, that rejected queerbaiting, that rejected convention, and that built itself on being a gay pirate rom-com and was exactly that.

Queer media has done more than broken through. It has embedded itself in the culture in a way that it never did in the past. It's out from the underground without assimilation. OFMD is not the only part of that, but it is a part of it. And that's something that HBOMax, Zaslav, Hollywood, the studio system, the entire straight, cis, white, conservative, conventional mainstream world can absolutely never take away or push back into the closet. They will try, though, and they will lose. They already lost.

So, yeah, I'm angry and I'm sad, and they fucked Calypso's birthday. But we can chuck a fiddle at their heads to protect the people we love, and it isn't going to destroy our souls.

Our spirit will last throughout their entire fucking empire.

#ofmd #our flag means death #just my thoughts #queer media #queer cinema #stede bonnet #edward teach #izzy hands #the crew of the revenge #gif

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