#ace discourse is so... bad how the fuck does ace discourse get so bad
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Is it just me or is anti-asexual discourse making a comeback right now, except instead of saying "asexual" or "ace," the post describes a "type of person" to be avoided/distrusted/mocked? I know that's vague, but I feel like I've seen a lot of "I hate it when [virgins/people who don't fuck/people who are scared of sex] do/say [insert behavior]" The behavior can be anything. It might be transphobia or homophobia, being kinky or being being disgusted by kinks, being a certain fandom or being anti-fandom.
It's tricky, because sometimes things are just memes, like "the chad ____ vs the virgin _____," and other times it feels like OP is trying to draw a direct line between people who don't have sex and Something Bad. I need to reemphasize how much the "Something Bad" can be anything.
It's kind of a clever way to get people to re-engage with anti-ace discourse. You read a post describing a person who does something you hate (something serious, like transmisogyny; or something mild, like reading fanfiction instead of books) and you go "yeah I hate people who do that" and accept the connection to people who don't have sex without much critical thought.
If the post actually used the word asexual, like "Most asexual people distrust trans women and it's so gross" or "I hate it when people are into [kink] but you just know that they're actually asexual" or "People who hate [fandom] are fucking asexuals," it would probably raise some eyebrows and probably not spread as far, since the heyday of just blatantly hating asexual people on tumblr faded around the mid 2010s.
By replacing "asexual" with a stand-in describer for asexuality and then connecting it to something that lots of people on this site are going to be against, we're just re-inventing the old hallmarks of asexual discourse, like
Asexual people are homophobic/transphobic
Asexual people are oppressive
Asexual people are anti-kink, sex negative
Asexual people are too kinky, abnormally sexual, perverted
Asexual people are all just inherently annoying/bad
Idk if this is really a rising pattern or if I've just had bad luck seeing this lately, but as someone who got taken in by some of those same talking points back in the day only to watch a lot of those blogs transform into terfs overnight, remember that infighting is the easiest way to divide a community, inclusion creates allies, personal descriptors that you don't like or understand don't hurt you, and people pushing lines of logic like this are often trying to yank you into a much darker well of hatred.
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The bemoaning of s@nsan's loss of popularity by shippers fascinates me because iv'e seen a lot of ancient fans stance on it was that sansa's flaw is liking pretty things/people so her lesson should be to marry the hound for humility yet not ONE of them look inside the text that all the men that attack/abuse/molest sansa all find her pretty or are infatuated with pretty women worst abuse them, the double standard of fans against sansa fascinates me as they ignore one of sansa's character traits is to treat people with courtesy,they also ignore every character has been attracted to pretty people even j0n yet not one person says that hes vain for liking val based on her attractiveness, the only person iv'e seen thats been as criticized is d@ny simply for her infatuation in daario and dismissal of quentyn and while we as readers didnt like that she did that she's also a teenager(and doesnt know quentyn) again there's huge double standard for girls and boys in this fandom yet no one saw it
im getting off track but basically s@nsan's loss of popularity shouldn't be such a surprise when there's a whole new generation of readers that might not have the same readings or bias from previous years especially when a lot of it was just misogynistic undertones
Has san/san lost popularity? It’s still heralded as one of the most iconic ships to come out of the game of thrones and late 2000s/ early 2010s in general, isn’t it? And the san/san posts I see have a good number of notes, always around and upwards of 400, which is a hefty number to me. But yes, it has definitely left major pop-culture discourse centres.
I have heard a lot about this “flaw” you are talking about and I consider myself extremely lucky that i didn’t join the fandom earlier. I absolutely cannot imagine being in the fandom from the 90s to 2018 as a Sansa stan, when hating her was the norm. I was just about to bring up this point you mentioned, that all men, who are full grown adults btw, lust after Sansa based on her looks. They consider her pretty and want them all for herself, and all the while she’s a 12 year old.
“Why should I be guilty? My wife wants no part of me, and most especially not the part that seems to want her.”
Tyrion VII, ASOS
“Give your Florian a little kiss now. A kiss for luck.” He swayed toward her. Sansa dodged the wet groping lips, kissed him lightly on an unshaven cheek, and bid him good night. It took all her strength not to weep.”
Sansa IV, ACOK
And these are just two people, with one out of many such instances each, among a hoard of men who think of her like that. A very simple answer to all of this is misogyny, in and out of the universe. Of course the entire san/san fandom has no hive mind, they were apparently the first ones to come up with the qitn Sansa theory while also coming up with the cottage theory, but shipping a 12 year old with a grown man who almost raped her at knifepoint is an open letter invitation for haters to find a settling point for making sansa suffer without actually getting called out for it. It becomes such a perfect cover for actively hating a 12 year old because even the haters realise how insane that actually is.
I think the “flaw rectification” argument was birthed to fuse the thought that yes, sansa did bad things, here’s how we can still enjoy her character while the undercurrent of unfounded hatred runs through the ship while we conveniently never acknowledge it. Obviously new readers came along who had never interacted with the fandom and realised “hey, what the fuck?” and had a different opinion of “that’s a defenceless 12 year old girl who actually did nothing wrong”. I’m sure there were voices who expressed such opinions before but were silenced. Internet is such a friendly place after all.
The “courtesy” thing is so true. She literally has no option but to respond the way she does. One wrong word and she might get beaten or killed. That girl is terrified and only trying to survive. Considering Sansa’s action as anything but survival mechanism is so superficial. This is so analogous to how women today are polite to men while because they’re scared that the men might hurt them/kill them. It’s the same shit, times ten, with Sansa. This also goes for when San/dor catches her during the battle of black water and demands a “song” from her (which is a thinly veiled euphemism for rape), and Sansa sings him a hymn of Mother’s mercy as a way to protect herself.
As for the Dany thing, I just want to say, what exactly is wrong about a teenage girl having a crush? Why is she termed as “lovesick” and “stupid” and “annoying” anytime she shows any interest in a guy? And it’s always the dudebros screaming this the loudest. Obviously, Daario is not a good choice and Dany herself acknowledges that.
“Daario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon queen he loved. If I gave up my crown, he would not want me.”
Daenerys VII, ADWD
I mean, the other shoe will definitely drop with this guy but this the first time we see Dany have a consensual relationship, which I feel is important to her arc - the relationship and the man she has the relationship with. Moreover, she has bigger fish to fry like her governance/dragons/moving towards westeros etc.
And berating her over Quentyn? Wasn’t she supposed to get married the next day to Hizdar? Didn’t she herself say that she’s not sure if Quentyn is the real deal or not? Moreover, she remembers Quaith’s prophecy about the “sun’s son” and double backs (Dany and prophecies are a whole another thing which we can talk about later) and solidifies her decision to go forward with her wedding with Hizdahr.
“Enough,” Daenerys said. “Prince Quentyn has crossed half the world to offer me his gift, I will not have him treated with discourtesy.” She turned to the Dornishmen. “Would that you had come a year ago. I am pledged to wed the noble Hizdahr zo Loraq.”
“The sun’s son. A shiver went through her. “Shadows and whispers.” What else had Quaithe said? The pale mare and the sun’s son…”
Daenerys VII, ADWD
Although, the Martells will not understand that Dany didn’t order Quentyn’s death and might antagonise her so that’s a chekov’s gun waiting to go off. Clearly, Quentyn was clearly the first leg of a bigger arc that we’ll likely see in TWOW (consider Quaith’s whole prophecy) and a part of a bigger theme Dany has to fulfill. Her decision to make Quentyn wait was not based on whether she found him ugly or not, it was based on being right in the middle of a political crisis with another volatile variable being added that has the potential to uproot a lot of what she has struggled to maintain (which ultimately does happen). Dany does have a knack of picking the worst option and that does not bode well for her governance/politics but that is not the point here. The point here is how dare a 16 year old doesn’t find a guy attractive and another guy too attractive (which is a part of a bigger theme btw) and sometimes, it’s a thin line between misogyny and valid criticism. Let’s stop flattening female characters into digestible one-dimensional beings, especially when it comes to teenagers. The fact that they have more than one motivation to act a certain way, makes them so much more enjoyable and interesting and honestly, human, like you and me.
Let’s also stop pigeonholing (12 year old) female characters into high-school mean girl clique leader trope who is so shallow and superficial that she needs to be assaulted by an “ugly” middle aged man to come to her senses. Also, that is called projection. The character that we are talking about isn’t like that at all. But whatever 🙄
Sorry I got carried away and got angry, things like these piss me off so bad. Never change, fandom, never change.
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i also am a now terf former transmasc ace discourse blogger. how the exclusionists as we were called justified being anti terf and exclus was that trans people and ssa people were oppressed on the axis of gender/deviating from gender norms, and acearos are not. it really shows how important gender is in all this. hi
fkhgjjgkf i try not 2 call myself a terf anymore bc people get all up in my grill abt it like "well why would u CALL YOURSELF a terf if youre NOT ONE" nd im like i dont know how many more times i can explain to u that that term does not have any sort of solid meaning and if u call someone smthn for long enough they are simply going to say 'fine ok sure i am so what'. that doesnt actually make me a Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist its. thou sayest!!
but anyway yeah ace discourse is suuuuch a gateway lmao i remember the 'inclusionists' always used to say that 'exclusionism' is 'terf rhetoric' and we were all like shut the fuck up those things are not even connected. but they were right lol its that 'words have meanings' 'categories should be defined' shit that gets u.
& ur so right bestie the thing is gender IS ultimately the source of homophobia (and transphobia!!) and the source of all of that is, in the end, misogyny!! we created these roles (sorry, wait. MEN created these roles) for men and women to keep women in line and as u say, gay ppl suffer for that bc theyre roles based around heterosexual pairings nd we can never truly fulfill them. and trans ppl do have a similar issue as gnc people and as people trying to escape the expectations of gender. and once u think abt that how is it not just the obvious next step to realise 'oh shit this is all because the world hates women so fucking bad and gender is an evil farce.'? hi <3
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Okay, let's get something straight (or rather, gay). This goes out to all kpop fans.
If I have to see one more comment or tweet talking about how weird/gross it is for fans to discuss an idol's sexuality, or come after other fans for suggesting an idol might be queer, or act all holier-than-thou and talk about how we shouldn't "assume people's sexuality, I am going to fucking scream.
And before you come at me with wild accusations, let me get this out of the way - in no way do I condone the hypersexualization or objectification of idols. Or anyone for that matter. But discussing someone's possible orientation or seeing something that points to queerness isn't inherently sexual or fetishizing and to equate those two things is disgustingly homophobic on levels I cannot even begin to unpack here. Sexualities of all kinds (gay, straight, bi, ace, pan etc) are all celebrations of humanity and while it is up to every individual how public or private they want to be with their identity, it is not wrong to playfully guess or acknowledge signs of queerness (especially when so often there are explicit signs of queercoding!)
I encounter people's internalized homophobia and heteronormativity everyday both online and in person but the level of cognitive dissonance people have about this subject sometimes in the kpop fandoms I'm in is ASTOUNDING. So here I am writing this post to deconstruct some of shit.
First of all, the "oh, we shouldn't assume their sexuality" bullshit. People assume sexuality all the time. Literally, so much of the kpop industry itself is built on performative heterosexuality. We see in this in how commonly idols are asked about their "ideal type" (usually clearly implying the opposite gender). In how the slightest interactions between idols of different genders leads to dating rumors. In how it's assumed, especially for boy groups, that the fandom is mostly women/girls. In how it's normal for fans to pretend they are in a relationship with their bias. Like, be so for fucking real, kpop fan culture is literally where the word DELULU comes from. So it's okay to assume sexuality with all of this, but it's not okay if someone teases or so much as suggests that an idol might not be straight? The only time assuming sexuality is cast as being wrong is when the sexuality in question is anything but heterosexuality. And coming from a queer person, if you have ever said this, disrespectfully, fuck you.
Because in the process of saying shit like that you are essentially insinuating, intentionally or unintentionally, that not being straight is bad or abnormal. Because why else would you treat the suggestion of someone's queerness as an insult? Why would the idea that an idol is not straight be offensive or demeaning?
Even worse, this bullshit, patronizing, hetero-morality complex shuts down any discourse queer kpop fans want to have about queercoding in the industry. And there is a LOT of that. Korea is conservative, coming out isn't the only way to affirm queerness. And not wanting, not being able to be out and proud does not negate someone's possible queerness, idol or not. So queercoding is often an important form of self expression for some idols and to deny that discourse is denying those very idols you claim to be protecting their right to express themselves, their personhood and humanity.
And the cherry on top of the fucking cake is that of all places to do this, KPOP? An entertainment business model that has literally been built on queerbaiting? As much as I enjoy kpop, as a queer fan, this is one of the less than savory aspects of industry I have to be aware of and contend with. And if you find yourself wondering how kpop queerbaits, think about the concept of "fan service" between members of an idol group. Fan service includes all instances of a group encouraged to perform "skinship" or flirt with each other to amuse the fans. Fan service is literally an euphemistic way of referring to queerbaiting and it is unbelievable how people don't even realize it. It's even more frustrating to see some fans having the audacity to brush things off as "fan service" when fans playfully (emphasis on playfully) engage in shipping. They don't even realize how problematic it is that such "fan service" is used for the viewing pleasure of straight fans and baits queer fans but simultaneously denies queer fans their space and voice and shuts down actual queerness in the industry. If you enjoy fan service (and nothing wrong with that by itself), but also demonize shippers or shut down queer fans discussing queercoding, you are part of the problem. Don't come up trying to say you wish the kpop industry would be a little less severe on idols dating or being queer, because you are part of the reason why the industry is the way it is.
To all my fellow queer fans, be absolutely unapologetic for your jokes or memes or ships or thought-provoking discussions on queerness and queercoding. There is no shame in our joy, we are not wrong or twisted for it. Because we know that we would celebrate our idols for who they are or want to be no matter how they choose to express themselves. Do not let people who would twist it into something perverted or bad, as an excuse for their own homophobia, shame you for the innocent joy of celebrating queerness. Do not let yourself be ashamed of it. As long as you are kind and respectful, love what you love and be queer and proud and happy.
#kpop#k pop#kpop ships#kpop gg#kpop bg#fandom#my writing#spilled thoughts#queer community#queer#kpop fandom#kpop icons#writers on tumblr#girl group#boy group#lgbtq community#queer joy#queer rage#queer love#bts#bts army#mamamoo#moomoo#stray kids#stray kids stays#le sserafim#fearnot#txt#txt moa#dreamcatcher
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My problematic headcanons? Well in that fandom I really don't know what hc count as problematic or not
But I hc Chihiro as both trans and bigender spectrum so I enjoy the discourse surrounding around it because idk it sounds fun.
And yeah, they forget that game is from Japan and their gender norms and identity revolving around gender is different than we have.
Quite nsfwish but I hc Taka as a top leaning switch yeah this is not even a problematic hc but when I see people tear eachother down for simple hc, I like to include that too
And I believe Gonta would identify as X gender if they have the knowleadge about it (x gender is ig an umbrella for genderqueer identities in Japan)
And I like the hc Gundam have skin picking disorder and his bandages comes from it, well i believe he would do that because of the way he can't healthily manage his emotions when he was a bit isolated one. Or maybe a harmful stimming behaviour, idk really know
(idk what pronouns you prefer for Chi, so I just used my own HC of she/her for this.)
Honestly, Chihiro has such a complex about others looking down on her for being weak, you could argue that any gender makes sense with canon because she simply hasn't thought about it enough.
Also, in the context of a killing game, physical strength means nothing if you have the sense to carry around a weapon. Even if you weigh a hundred pounds soaking wet, nobody will fuck with you if they know you've got a knife. Also, they won't attack anyone they percive as crazy, like Syo or Nagito.
My take about the chapter is that none of the tropes involved were transphobic (the existence of GNC characters isn't transphobic), but comments made by the characters were really squicky and not to my tastes. Since I can't play the game in original Japanese, I'm hoping Sakura's "this girl is actually a boy!" is a mistranslation. I also feel like the fact Kyoko does the same thing to Hifumi that she does with Chihiro makes it less bad.
In a perfect world, I'd also like "maybe we should still treat Chihiro how they were currently presenting, since we don't know if they wanted to live life as male after the secrets were released and might be training as self-defense" but since lives were on the line it makes sense they weren't thinking.
(context: I'm ace and will read smut, but won't read PWP works. It needs to be attached to dead dove or a longfic for me to get invested. Also porn with feelings best tag)
I headcanon all of my faves as tops simply to avoid the weird characterization that comes with them being bottoms. Its like if people took what kind of bunk bed you preferred and based your entire perceived personality based off it and as someone who has a normal bed, I just don't get it.
Yeah, Gonta in canon is so performative about masculinity, in a way that I don't think came solely from them being in the woods. I feel like in their mind, Gonta conflates fitting gender roles with approval from their family, which can't be healthy long term. Also, in Gonta's mind gentleman is "someone that can help others perfectly, even if they don't want to be helped" and if that isn't met they're failing. Even if his version of Masculinity isn't obviously toxic, its still Toxic for Gonta specifically.
Yeah, Gundam probably has a host of unhealthy coping mechanisms. It makes sense for his character, since its revealed he'll hide in the nurse's office to avoid having to be in loud physical situations. I like to belive that Sonia and/or Mikan help him move past them.
#ask tag#listen talking about Gonta is I think I'm playing 4d chess while everyone else is having a blast playing checkers#crowtalks
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I posted 7,601 times in 2022
That's 780 more posts than 2021!
581 posts created (8%)
7,020 posts reblogged (92%)
Blogs I reblogged the most:
inkstaindusk
ace-in-the-quiver
doodlebeeberry
asavt
I tagged 7,549 of my posts in 2022
Only 1% of my posts had no tags
#mod trix - 707 posts
#reblog for l8ter - 552 posts
#loz - 517 posts
#lol - 440 posts
#cookie run - 437 posts
#pokemon - 359 posts
#link - 285 posts
#yup - 217 posts
#zephyr - 178 posts
#cookie run kingdom - 166 posts
Longest Tag: 139 characters
#as long as they respect skintones acting like a black person cant have big eyes or tiny noses is wwell gross! especially in a stylized styl
My Top Posts in 2022:
#5
The current discourse revolving around Affogato Cookie is literally just Aloe Cookie but genderbent.
YUP i said it in my reply to anon its not about HIM specifically its a FANDOM WIDE ISSUE the fact this keeps happening is the issue. as one of the only fandoms w/ MULTIPLE CANON nonbinary and gnc cookies we cant keep forcing gender roles on cookies then acting a fool when they dint align w/ our assumptions this kind of thing is what makes pll not want to explore their genders because then they'll feel like there something else to them like they have to be gay or nonbianry. like i get u guys want to express thise hcs but the problem is i NEVER see ppl say cookies like cheesecake or chocolate bonbon are nonbinary or trans women no its always sour belt or aloe. why does Affogato HAVE to be a trans man or nonbinary but not dark cacao...? think about why u guys chose the LITTERAL man in a dress for ur trans hcs but not the strong heroic kingdom leader. thats fucked up. and trans men can hc whayever the FUCK they want i dont care but cis ppl and other trans ppl are ALSO buying into it and being upset he wasn't a she/her or they/them. thats when i get the issue. because this shit never spreads in the fandom unless a cookie is gnc and yall wanted them to be the opposite gender or nonbinary. if u make trans hcs even subconsciously because u dont like the assigned gender of a character thats. fucked. up.
this is coming from a bitch w/ a mostly trans and nonbinary friend group who loves dresses, skirts, and leggings im very much fem irl but i do not use she/her online. anyone coming across this in the tags pls stop assuming if someone disagrees w/ u they r automatically an enemy to ur cause lmao just tell me if u disagree and we can have a talk about it
36 notes - Posted February 25, 2022
#4
btw if u think kumiho is a slut/whore genuinely i hate u so much if u think its ok to insult her like that i want u hunted for sport
38 notes - Posted February 5, 2022
#3
if ur harassing ppl over info that came in a brand new update ur a bad person i dont care if canonly or heavily implied the dragons r all related the devs JUST dropped this info and ships like Ananas x Pitaya have been around for years. let ppl hae time to see the new info and change their stances on stuff yall r too fucking rude and stupid to understand that sometimes ppl dont play updates or dont have all the info before u run ur mouths istg
46 notes - Posted July 14, 2022
#2
FELLAS IS IT GAY TO-
60 notes - Posted October 5, 2022
My #1 post of 2022
dear cookie run mutuals! i just got a reply on my post about how Cream Unicorn canonly did kidnap children(not even mentioning modifying 2 adults body w/out their consent) that was condescending and also woobifed cream unicorn cookie. once again fandom ppl assume when i point out the flaws of my favs it means im being malicious and misunderstand canon as if im an idiot newbie who doesnt understand what motivation is so i obviously make posts w/ouit understand that no bc ur fav was sad/lonely they get to do whatever they want
u know what that means?
war. this means war.
im gonna start Cream Unicorn cookie is a bit fucked up propaganda now. join me in my cause of being petty bc someone didnt bother to read my tags on my post for the millionth time!
Cream Unicorn cookie is a faerie who IS fucked up that DOESNT mean they r evil but it does mean they lack general human morales and will do things like *checks notes* kidnap children and keep them bc they r lonely bc they do not understand other ppl may like *check notes* not want to be trapped in a fantasy world forever! wow! look at that a valid interpretation of a character based off canon facts that doesn't woobify my fav or ignore their actions. ik its crazy to see it!
if u wish to see more of this join me in the cause!
63 notes - Posted July 28, 2022
Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →
#tumblr2022#year in review#my 2022 tumblr year in review#your tumblr year in review#so glad it doesnt count dleted psots bc i would kms if that meme i psoted that blew up was there
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90% of this discourse is because a lot of y'all don't have actual real life experience with the LGBTQ community or much in general. So of course the TERF originating backlash against queer/ace/trans/polysex communities looks attractive due to those communities becoming more accepted/visible and that chaps your assholes. You just think you can compartmentalize it away from TERFs and general reactionaries. I beg of you, get some fucking air. Go to a pride event that's not hypothetical. Real and not imagined.
#dickhorse#ace discourse is so... bad how the fuck does ace discourse get so bad#anti ace discourse#ace discussion#ace discourse
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exclusionists seriously think they can just put aces somewhere In Between gay and straight and let us exist happily there by ourselves as if there are,,, Any safe or supportive spaces from bigots for ppl who are ‘’’’’~in between~’’’’’’,,,, like hsfjsd bu ddy,,,,,,,,, tthat doesnt actually exist,, ,,,,,,, ,,,, there Is no in between for homophobes,,,,,, if your sexual orientation isnt like theirs then ur gay and unfortuntely theyre the ones with real power so for the love of God get your head out of your ass and accept that the world is Not how u want it to be on ur su critical blog smh it doesnt matter to them what your nuanced ideas of sexual orientations are ppl dont like aces bc we’re different ppl dont like nbs bc we’re different nobody hates pan ace genderfluid demiboys specifically for being that identity (except yall for some, fuckin reason,) THEY HATE US BC THEY DONT CONSIDER US STRAIGHT OR CIS..... AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT THIS LEADS TO US NOT BEING TREATED AS STRAIGHT OR CIS BY THE MAJORITY,,,, ITS LEGIT NOT A HARD CONCEPT,
#ace discourse#ace disk horse#asexual#asexuality#boost ace voices#neg// //#and honest to god i am s o o o go dda mn tired of hearing that bullshit argument about l iek..#'well thats not that bad' i DIDNT... A S K YOU BECKY I#IM TELLING YOU#ITS BAD!#ID LIKE TO NOT EXPERIENCE THIS PLEASE#OR AT THE VERY LEAST ID ENJOY IT GREATLY IF YOU PUT IN THE EFFORT OF CARING#like ffs you arent the majority and as much as that sucks you cant just Warp the world into what you Want it to be#as a nb pan ace i dont want homophobia or transphobia in any shape or form to exist#but it sure still fuckin does and its really just the baseline of being a decent person to Accept that so that i can fight it#instead of leavin ppl to fend for themselves after ignoring literally every word that comes out of their mouth#and deciding for Myself how bad it is despite viewing literally every other group of human beings in the fucking World#as deserving of enough respect to at least be allowed to share their experiences with prejudice#but not aces we dont get 'treated like human beings' privileges bc the crignngengnegnengengneng
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ok this is not at you but i need to get this out because i almost posted it to my own blog. cuz im pissed lmao /lh
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people have such an obsession with creating the “good” teams and “bad” teams in this community, not realizing that it can just cause further oppression, suffering, and less social acceptance for people.
i used to run a blog for alloaro discussion, since i formerly identified that way. i remember when people said alloarophobia couldn’t exist, because you can’t be oppressed for being allo. sure, alloaros are oppressed, but only for being aro. it’s not a special microlabel because being allo is a privilege.
maybe that’s why i don’t buy into the current debate on terms like “transandrophobia.” because it’s recycled. it’s not new, it’s not a “hot take,” it’s bigotry taken to its furthest point under a new form of discourse, because it always evolves. does “androphobia” exist? on it’s own, no. but like alloarophobia, it does exist under certain circumstances, due to being in another group.
allos aren’t oppressed as a group, but gay allos are for expressing their sexuality in a way society doesn’t approve of, for being openly sexual with people of the same gender, for being allo in a way that amatonormantivity didn’t account for. alloaros are, for being okay with sexuality without romance, for being okay with FWBs, for not wanting the nuclear family, all while still being comfortable in their non-normative sexuality, and so on, so forth.
men aren’t oppressed as a group, but trans men are for not being seen as real men, for being forced into specific roles, for not having reproductive rights, for invisibility. men of color are, for how they’re painted as aggressive and violent, for how they’re often targets of unjustified attacks and even deaths for this very stereotype. mlm are, intersex men are, gender nonconforming men are.
when are people going to realize that this isn’t anything new, and they’re just being transphobic? i keep seeing it in terms of both gender and attraction. people think these jokes about how being a guy or liking guys is gross, when people literally die for being attracted to men, or for fighting to be considered one in a society that wants them to fade into obscurity. you aren’t being revolutionary, you aren’t lifting up whoever the fuck you think you are, you’re just causing more suffering for a group that frankly, has suffered fucking enough.
if you pick apart labels that describe oppression based off of whether the components exist on their own, you’re not an ally for any of us.
tell me what two magical components make up biphobia that “justify” the word existing. or aphobia, or even homophobia. is it okay for the term “alloarophobia” to exist even though “allophobia” doesn’t? if you’re in this community, there’s a 99% chance you’d say yes. because “allophobia” becomes possible under certain circumstances, such as being aro. kinda weird right? clearly, the axis doesn’t exist, because the two components on its own typically don’t. (sarcasm)
but that’s not really what the problem is, is it. this semantics over language, over whether the term is accurate based off of the etymology… that’s not the issue. the issue is, some people just don’t want to admit how deeply transphobic they are, and how willing they’d be to let huge chunks of us suffer and die because we don’t fit their perfect categorization of what “counts” or “deserves” to exist.
to some people, this shit is just a game and not lived experience. it’s internet discourse. because to them, it matters more than the lives and genuine safety of real queer people. it’s nice to know how many people in the queer community would turn on a dime and not stand for their fellow community members based off of it.
i’m honestly willing to bet a huge portion of these people would be the same ones who helped me get recloseted as an ace person because “aphobia can’t exist,” the same ones who called us “bihets” and based us off of our “privilege” instead of recognizing biphobia as a term. the day people realize that this is recycled bigotry and not some revolutionary OwnTM that you think it is will be the day we can finally move forward as a community instead of bickering and squabbling in the gutter.
these people are not just against transmasc allyship, but queer allyship as a whole, until they get over this shit. end of discussion.
anon this is the best description of this i think i've ever seen. you're so right. thank you thank you thank you.
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Noooooo you can't hate RT's token group of POC consisting of White guy with Japanese surname, angry Black woman 1 and 2, Asian quiet monk stereotype 2 electric boogaloo and DogTM. They are totally developed and well-rounded characters and not caricatures. You are racist if you hate them. :( /j
The writing with the Ace Ops and Harriet is so fucking weird, because they expect us to care about Harriet crying over Clover or whatever but at the same time spent the last two volumes shitting on him and telling us how much of bad bootlicker he is or whatever. RT wants us to hate Clover and James but love Harriet even though all of her actions have been because of her loyalty to them. It doesn't work. I'm supposed to care about that bitch? I don't.
I'm not touching the race stuff with a 10 ft poll because I'm not getting involved in that discourse but it makes me mad knowing that mkek somehow put more energy into badly fleshing out Harriet (and the rest of the ace ops) than they did in giving Weiss and Whitley anything resembling complex emotions in their subplot. after. Four. Volumes.
And it's a clear double standard where ironwoods disabilities (PTSD and physical) were used to demonize him to the point where he was no longer the character his fans even knew him as while Harriet gets off scott free- from doing exactly what we condemn ironwood for (a complete casual disregard for human life) - because of grief for a character we're not even supposed to like. Like seriously?
Ironwood losing his arm and getting this black grimm looking prosthetic is blantently him "losing his humanity" and is now irredeemable but Harriet also tries to murder a whole city of people and it's a whoopsie daisy oopsie!! She won't try to commit mass murder again now, she's learned how to properly express her emotions through friendship 🥺
Lmao why does a 14 year old (male) abuse victim have to do more in the narrative to be given the benefit of the doubt by the other characters and the audience than an unhinged (female) cop who was LITERALLY 2 inches away from actually murdering people. The only reason the bomb wasn't dropped was because of sheer. Freaking. Luck.
I'm convinced 95% of v8 was just a massive psychological study on how much writers can get away with through the sheer power of parasocial relationships and a fandom already primed to digest all the bullshit fed to them.
I really do hope they do better in v9 with a smaller already established cast because my god none of these new characters make me feel anything other than contempt. At least they did the HH right? Robyn was pretty present but the rest of them were fine characters while not hogging so much time to themselves.
But they'll probably introduce 10 more new characters in vacuo who am I kidding
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I am truly sorry to bring discourse into your ask box in the year 2020 but Im really worried about the trend of ace validation posts to say that its ok, lots of aces have sex with their partners for their partners' pleasure even if they don't enjoy it. Seeing so many if those posts circulated anong the youngest community members recently is scary to me. We really have to be careful about telling young lgbt+ kids that its normal to have sex you aren't 100% comfortable with and enjoying.
Yeah, honestly I don’t know how to combat that sort of rhetoric outside of saying “Sex (inside of a supposedly loving relationship, not in the contexts of sex work where things obviously change) should never be a chore, it should be something both partners (or all three, four, whatever) want. If your partner wants to have sex with you knowing you are not enthusiastic about it and do not want to partake on your own, you deserve a better partner.”
This rhetoric exists outside the ace community. Women and LGBT people in particular are constantly pressured to have sex they don’t want, with people they aren’t attracted to. Laws existed for decades saying you can’t rape someone you are married to. Why do we know it’s wrong when we frame it as misogyny or homophobia but not in ace/”allo” relationships?
This problem even exists outside of relationships with ace partners. Partners with mismatched libidos have to deal with this too.
And I need to reiterate... a partner that is okay with repeatedly having sex with a partner who does not want to have sex and is “only doing it to please them” is a bad partner.
Like, put this into a hypothetical, if partner a rolled over in bed to partner b and was like “Hey, wanna fuck” and partner b was like “No, I’m not in the mood,” partner a is kinda a fucking asshole if they keep insisting on sex until partner b changes their mind. “Come on, do it for me” is a fucking dick move whether explicitly or implicitly said.
We need to have honest conversations about the fact that mismatched libidos, attitudes around sex, kinks, or attraction levels are healthy reasons to break up. I feel like a lot of people have this fear they’ll never find someone they ACTUALLY mesh with, so it’s easier to promote beliefs that you can settle into a relationship where one partner is either perpetually having sex they don’t want OR the other partner must just settle for a dead bedroom.
Sexual needs are a fine reason to break up, it’s not petty. If someone needs sexual intimacy to truly feel close to their partner and reasonably expects it with a mutually enthusiastic partner, the relationship just won’t work if sexual needs don’t match.
Which isn’t to say that you must be horny or up to sex every time your partner is, just that there should be a reasonable amount of times where you’re both up/not up to it. There should be a good amount of overlap where everyone comes away satisfied.
IF you are having sex you do not want “to please your partner,” you are not coming away satisfied or with your own sense of agency and self.
In these contexts, you need to analyze if you GENUINELY want sex. If you want sex outside of pleasing your partner and for your own satisfaction, congrats that’s sexual attraction and you need to start owning that rather than being ashamed of your own sexual desires. If you aren’t wanting sex and your partner keeps expecting it, break the fuck up and find someone with similar needs as you.
There are non-ace people with low libidos who have no interest in sex. There are other aces. But going into a relationship where your needs/desires will NEVER match up is just setting it up to fail and for someone to get hurt.
Pretending romantic partners should constantly have sex they don’t want to please a partner just reaffirms rape culture and misogyny and veers dangerously close to conversion therapy rhetoric that tells gay people they can and should have sex without attraction to form closer romantic bonds with genders they aren’t attracted to in forced/closeted marriages.
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Like every one of my mutuals is like don’t hate ace people and I think they’re lgbt (contextually) and all, but I joke about how they’re unfuckable/ugly, I think headcanoning characters as ace is bad if x, and children shouldn’t be thinking about asexuality because it’s inherently sexual, and they aren’t AS oppressed as other lgbts, and every ace hc is cringe, and you shouldn’t bully ace people because of ace discourse but are throwing fits that Connor is ace it’s so fucking stupid we’re friends but I’m this close to blocking everyone I honestly hate them when they’re like this 😭 like why does everyone think they have a free pass to say the most hateful things to ace people for the crime of being ace and then saying acephobia isn’t real like you you’re being acephobic right now
No no literally it’s just so weird and insidious 😭 like literally be normal imagine saying half of this stuff towards anyone else like. Ace kids exist I knew I was ace when I was 12 😭 I promise you ace hcs aren’t hurting anyone 😭 like if ace content made you mislabel yourself that’s kinda on you?? Like. Don’t blame the community because you simply were wrong. And yeah the Connor thing no fr some of my mutuals refuse to be normal about it and ace people and it’s like?? Literally do you not get how fucking stupid you look and how uncomfortable you’re making me
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Actually helpful advice for the kids on this hellsite
Once again tired of "don't make a carrd or tell people your triggers" posts going around literally telling kids it's Dangerous to set boundaries. So here's what I've learned in my teen years on how to stay safe in the hellscape that's the internet.
Identity
You don't have to link all your social media together but you can if you want to. Don't give out something that is more private (like discord account, Skype or zoom account, facebook, Snapchat etc.) publicly or to people who aren't familiar with yet though.
Use a nickname rather than your real name or birth name, an account and name change may unfortunately be necessary so if you want to keep a name safe or use it irl then don't attach it to public social media. This can be fun though! Go apeshit coming up with different aliases and names! Call yourself lizard if you want to!
The only thing you absolutely need to put somewhere on your account (or carrd) is that you're a minor. You don't have to give the exact age but I promise this is important because even if there's plenty of context clues that you're a minor if you don't indicate this somewhere clear and adults start treating you like shit you need to be able to point out that they're knowingly doing this to a minor. That has saved me from gross bullshit a lot. Yes, people should default to treating people who's ages they don't know as a minor to play it safe but the majority of people assume everyone is the same age as them so you need to make it clear you're not an adult.
Pronouns don't make you identifiable and anyone who acts like putting your pronouns in your bio is unsafe is probably transphobic lmao. You don't have to if you don't want to (and don't mind people not using/knowing your pronouns) but it's safe to put them there most of the time. (The only exception I can think of is if you're closeted and your parents may find your account but in that case you should probably stay closeted online to unless you feel safe/know they aren't likely to find your account.)
You don't have to list every privilege you have and you probably shouldn't but if you're white you probably should indicate this somewhere. This is to hold yourself accountable because yes even teenagers can be racist and underaged people of color also deserve to feel safe. If you're nonwhite and don't feel safe doing so you don't have to list your race or ethnicity.
If you're part of a system/plural or questioning you do NOT have to say your systems origins, if you have DID/OSDD, or list your headmates/alters. The system community has a lot of people in it (and singlets adjacent to parts of the community due to bullshit discourse groups welcoming them) who will target underaged systems to fakeclaim them or harass them etc. I suggest having everyone use aliases/nicknames on a system account and you only tell your origin to people you feel comfortable around and safe with. Your safety and privacy is more important than your trendy system carrd goals I promise!
You shouldn't really just list any disorders you have but it really does no harm to put marginalized identities you're proud of on a carrd or in your bio. You might get a shitty anon or two but I promise people aren't going to dox you if you say you're autistic on your carrd or something.
I personally wouldn't list any special interests that are particularly recognizable (popular media should be ok but more niche stuff may not be) or publicly share a kin list just because you never know if you'll want to switch up your identity online to feel safe and the more things are clearly tied to your current nickname and handle the harder it will be to do this. However if you feel safe doing so it's not the end of the world. Just be careful about it and don't feel pressured to give more info than you're comfortable giving.
You do NOT need to tell people your trauma in order to tell them your triggers. If you need something tagged with a tw you really should indicate this somewhere so people know to tag it (unless you intend to send every you're mutuals with an anon with what to tag which is also an option but may be difficult) but you shouldn't tell them your trauma or medical history to justify it. Your boundaries aren't up for debate and you have nothing to prove. You should only talk about your trauma if you feel safe doing so (and even then please don't give identifiable details like.names of people involved or specifics as that can cause serious problems.)
Boundaries & etiquette
DNIs are good! BYFs are good! Anyone who tells you that they're not good or useful is absolutely trying to disrespect your and other people's boundaries. You can and should make a DNI and list the people you don't want to interact with. (Generally it's better to say groups rather than specific people or names because it's easier to again not be recognized if you need to change accounts/aliases but you can do this if you have strong reasoning and absolutely have to to feel safe.)
DNIs (and also.trigger lists) don't have to all be bad things! You can put fandoms that make you uncomfortable, things that trigger you but aren't bad inherently, etc. on these lists. They're about helping you feel safe not having the hottest takes or being the most morally correct.
Some people you should put in your DNIs as a minor are proshippers/anti-antis and MAPs. Both of these groups have been proven time and time again to groom minors online so the earlier you get away from them the better.
Once you have your DNI please do be aggressive in reinforcing it! Block people who break your DNI, tell people who complain about your DNI to fuck off! Do not tolerate people trying to debate the boundaries You have set this is your corner of the internet to feel safe! They can go somewhere else! Being blocked by a kid on the internet is not the emotional blow abusers act like it is. You're not mean for having boundaries please internalize this and stand up for yourself!
If other people have a DNI you need to check that before following them this is for both your own safety and theirs. If you're unsure what something on someone's DNI means ask around to find out before following just in case.
Do NOT get involved in discourse! This doesn't mean you can't ever take part in or boost serious things. Discussing/calling out bigotry (racism, ableism, transphobia, etc.) isn't discourse. Sometimes callout posts for legitimately harmful people is necessary so that's not automatically bad. But I'm taking about the shit that's #discourse. Stay out of ace discourse. Stay away from syscourse. Don't debate with terfs or transmeds or shitty people. I know it seems like it'd be cathartic to win debates with shitty people, I know there's people who will try to bait you into the latest argument over which lgbt+ identities can say what slurs or whatever the fuck the pointless bad faith argument is, and I know you want to prove that your marginalized identity doesn't make you a bad person like bigots say it does. But as someone who's mental health was absolutely destroyed by discourse as a teen it's not worth it. By all means discuss issues as they arise, broaden your perspectives and horizons, etc. but don't engage knowingly in discourse it will save you so much trouble in the long run.
Try to avoid talking to adults 1x1 if you can avoid it! It's okay to dm with an adult you feel safe talking to sometimes and while it's certainly okay not to interact with adults at all if you don't feel.comfortable it's generally okay to do so. But if an adult is going out of their way to consistently talk to you in private needlessly that can be a red flag. If an adult tries to insinuate that they're the only adult around you can trust that's DEFINITELY a red flag. Basically talk to people in places you can easily involve others if needs be. If someone sends you a dm that makes you uncomfortable screenshot it in case you need to show someone etc.
Don't discuss NSFW things with adults, in spaces adults have easy access to (for example a discord server open to all ages), or even with other underaged people who haven't indicated they're comfortable with it. There's nothing inherently wrong with being aware of nsfw stuff or experiencing sexual attraction as a teenager but it's very important that you don't put yourself in situations that may be unsafe for you or others. Most good discord servers have rules against this for this exact reason. Now, to make it abundantly clear, if you did or do ever say something nsfw and an adult takes advantage of this or responds in a way that makes you uncomfortable this is NOT your fault! The responsibility falls on adults to act appropriately but it's still a good idea to keep youeself out of harms way.
That's basically it on a general level. Once again, posts telling you not to make DNIs or carrds or trigger lists (all used to set clear boundaries) are very suspect and either grossly misunderstand how these things work or are intentionally demonizing them in order to have more opportunity it excuse to do harm. Setting clear boundaries is good. Doing things that help you feel safe and respected is good. Just don't go and get involved in discourse or give out personal information or anything.
#online safety#internet safety#DNIs#carrd#actuallyautistic#actuallyplural#long post#grooming tw#ask to tag
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I know this is old discourse but in light of destiel becoming canon, what are your thoughts on neil gaiman not allowing Crowley and Aziraphale to be gay lovers? He said that they're angels, not men, so is that supposed to imply that they're not gay simply cuz they're non-binary (so they're asexual)? I just wanna know if they'e in love or not lol. I ship them so much.
yeah okay this is gonna have to be tagged neil discourse because thinking about this over a year later i’m still mad huh
so like. i know very well what he said at the time. he was basically like, and i’m paraphrasing but that’s because i simply do not care enough to give a direct quote but on twitter he was like ‘oh well angels don’t UNDERSTAND human concepts like GENDER and SEXUAL ATTRACTION so NO they’re NOT GAY’ and then someone was like ‘but they’re in love right?’ and he was like ‘of course.’ right? everyone agrees that’s what happened right after the show aired? and like, okay, i’m not going to begrudge people seeing this as representative of themselves if they’re nb and/or ace, that’s cool and fine, and you do you. i find it interesting that i saw a ton more criticism about it on here than on twitter, but that’s probably just more indicative of who i’m following and how much i’m on here than anything else. anyway.
let’s break this bullshit down and explain piece by piece why i think neil’s quote unquote representation in gomens is a hot garbage fire and why it kind of rubbed me the wrong way from the moment i saw it.
1. he posted it on twitter. he wrote the script and could have like, you know, put it into the show, if them being In Love was like, actually part of the story. he had the ability to do that. gomens was already going to piss off right wing groups because of how it treats religion, this wasn’t something i legitimately think amazon/the beeb would have just said ‘no’ to if neil was serious about it. mean, maybe that’s a bit far into conspiracy territory, but i truly believe if they really wanted to make azcrow canon the one person who could have managed getting a scene would have been the author/showrunner. and because he didn’t if you’re a casual viewer who’s not fucking following his goddamned twitter seeing gay representation is now a rorschach test
‘they don’t adhere to human ways of thinking about gender and sexuality’ MANY THOUGHTS HERE but let’s start with
2. i think hallie originally said this and neil i know you wrote the book but like. did you read the book neil. because i thought one of the main points of it was that aziraphale and crowley had effectively ‘gone native’ and saw themselves more like humans than like celestial beings. and they’d been on earth for all of human history. it’s a bad take i’m sorry i know he literally wrote it but like really. really.
3. look i’m nb and i’d love some nb rep. but that was not nb rep. those were two cis male actors playing (largely) male presenting characters with absolutely no in-text indications that they aren’t cis. there’s one (a few? god it’s been a minute since i watched the show) character referred to by singular ‘they’ and it’s not aziraphale or crowley. and like, look, i get that in real life there’s nb people who don’t go by gender neutral pronouns and that’s cool and fine because that’s what those people feel inside. but, like, this isn’t real life, it’s a tv show, and referring to male presenting characters as he/him and then occasionally putting them in feminine clothing isn’t representation because people who aren’t looking for that kind of representation aren’t going to see it, they’re going to see a joke about a man in a dress
4. and i’m not ace so i can’t speak on that, but i do remember at the time ace people being like ‘that....was not ace rep’ so like, make of that what you will. again, i’m not going to tell you you can’t see them as nb and/or ace, but like, i’m just asking you, was that really representation? like, was it? in your heart like, would you have been happy with that representation if neil didn’t tell you it was representation? because if you’re just starved for content, that’s FINE, you’re ALLOWED, all i’m asking you is to not praise the creator for doing fuck all.
5. ‘of course [they’re in love]’ again where??? where??? where is it neil. where is it in the actual text of the show. like there’s in text evidence that they love each other platonically and there’s lots of jokes made by other characters but like. i hate to say that but that’s it. i don’t know why this off the cusp response still makes my blood boil but boy does it
6. i don’t want to go looking for it because i’ve done that like six times but there’s a post on neil’s tumblr from before the show dropped about how there would be moments that people who ship it would be happy with but it wouldn’t become canon. you can look it up i swear he said that in like....december of 2018ish? something like that. which, again, is fine on its own, but combined with the fact that after he was like ‘lmao that’s what i was going for’......not my favorite look
what i’m saying is like, if he wanted to create an actual queer narrative he could have but he just like, chose not to and then when he realized he could have people watching his show just because they’re thirsty for representation that isn’t there i think he went ‘oh i’ll jk rowling this’ i don’t KNOW that that’s what happened but, like, that’s what it looks like to me.
i used to regularly refer to the “representation” in gomens as nu-queerbaiting, which i still like as a term, because to me it’s the person in charge (not the actors, usually, unless they have some say in the writing process) going, oh no they’re totally in love with each other totally trust me :) and then like, they’re not, not really, not to the people who like, watch the show but don’t fucking follow the author on twitter. and that’s. i’m sorry, that’s not canon to me.
and, to be honest, how this is presented honestly makes me more angry than if it was just maybe in-universe wink wink nudge nudge, because i’m USED to queerbaiting and i know that like, almost nothing ever ever ever comes of it and i get it and i like having fun anyways, so i deal. and like, i was a book fan before the show came out. the book was written in the late 80s, and i knew that it wasn’t going to be anywhere near as gay as the fandom has made that work for thirty goddamned years, and i was fine with that. like, going into it, i joked, but it was fine because it was a relatively faithful adaption of a book i like. i wasn’t looking for gay representation, even though i ship aziraphale and crowley.
but like, there was this wave of people who came looking for representation, and the show is so vague on that concept that they saw it, but it’s like. it’s not actually really there. there’s no one saying ‘yes they’re really irl in love.’ there’s two male-presenting characters who COULD be in love, if you choose to view it like that, but maybe aren’t. and like, that’s FINE, on it’s own, but i hate that someone in a position of power said ‘no you’re right lmao’ even though he didn’t do shit. it was made in 2019. queer representation should be better than that. i’m not patting neil on the back for doing literally nothing.
so like, tldr: yeah the rep is bad in my opinion!!! it’s not good!!!! i don’t like how neil handled it and it’s gross!!!! i hope this answers your question!!!!
anyway that being said azcrow is such a good ship anyway, so like, why does it matter if they’re canon? ship em anyways no one can stop me from doing it even though how it was handled by the actual creator is a garbage fire when you look at it for more than like, thirty seconds. like......why must a ship be ‘canon’? is it not enough to read a book and see two celestial beings, in love with humanity?
#neil if you're searching your name again and see this no you didn't#neil discourse#go#go tv#nonny mouse#inquiries
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I've never been one to overly police fandom but I will say that I'm actually begging you guys to be considerate of the fact that queer people get nothing we look like the majority sometimes but a lot of it is fetishism of mlm, trans women, internalized misogyny, and misogyny. wlw don't get 1/4 the attention mlm get and aphobia. Ace characters? Canonically sex disinterested ace characters? Too bad you're fucking because someone finds you hot. I know it doesn't seem like that, but it is.
Also, I know how much of fandom is based on projection so a lot of folks are writing for themselves, but please understand this, you need to be considerate of the people who Yelena is actually for as a canon queer character.
I see a lot of debates about "If you can make everyone gay why does sexuality matter?" it is different.
Fandom has always had a and issue with how it treats queer people when we are sitting right here and I am not asking you to drop and erase every single piece of fan content you've made that erases a character's queerness. I am only asking you to be compassionate.
Gonna do one of those stupid apple comparisons. (Sorry)
Personally, I'm trans, gay, and demiromantic. I have maybe 10 apples to live off of and some of them rotted, not even remotely editable either because they're too old for most people born after my generation to eat.(as in queers under 25 might have no idea who they are) or because they're predatory or bad representation.
Also, like none of them are aspec.
Cis het people? They, each individual, not as a group, have hundreds of thousand ache orchards. (I wont get into race/ethnicity, religion, and disabled/abled here but that makes it even more complicated and I don't think I should be the person to make a post about race)
If I personally took 300 apples from you it would not hurt your apple population at all. There would be 0 change in your apple consumption you wouldn't even notice they were gone. Though straight people love to act like they're losing something and the world is over and "evil queer pandering" when they're faves become queer ... it doesn't actually hurt you, you're just kinda being babies.
Also a lot of my gay apples came with women who hated me, who thought it was strange or gross that I was an actual gay man because how dare a gay man exist outside of their little sexy sinful day dreams? How dare I love men?
So sometimes, understandably when we see our stuff being taken and added to the majority it can fucking hurt, our apples are only in the double digits, if that, and some of them are rotted through.
I'm not specifically in the fandom Yelena is from. I don't know a ton about her but when you absolutely flood fandom with content that erases her queerness that hurts the queer people in your spaces, who are actually working hard at building your spaces too.
So I'm just saying, be mindful be considerate have an ounce of compassion before you completely flood Yelena's tag to no return with stuff that would hurt the people that she's for and make them feel alienated and like they don't matter.
One of my friends fandoms has a queer character who's always shipped outside of their boundaries you finally see a queer character in the sea of nothing and their tag is only full of them with their orientation erased?
I've had women in fandom say in their own wrods that they love certain queer ships but always genderbend one because they think queer folks are gross or strange.
That shit hurts. It's just another reminder that we don't belong in fandom, there isn't actually a place for us despite a lot of the content being about us.
I don't want any "but ace people can date" discourse on this post I'm just saying be mindful. I also don't wanna hear from people(not even queer ones) whining that fiction isn't reality. That's not what this is about and I am not attacking anyone I am not saying "never write these things"/"Never post these things" I'm just saying to have some thought and consideration. That's all this post is.
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My love has left tumblr once again.
As many of you may know, the account under the name MDZADR, has left tumblr. They felt unsafe in their fandom, and as such have deleted their tumblr and AO3 account due to the bad memories linked to them.
As a part of their departure, they have asked me to post something in their name, as follows.
If you want more details about how I came to this realization, continue to read. If not, here is your summary:
TL;DR: For the safety and health of this fandom, I wanted to spread the word that Mooping-10 is filled with people who absolutely cannot be trusted, creating a very hazardous environment for the zadr community, and MelodyoftheVoid is connected to all of those people, living a double life amongst those of us that don’t “ship zadr correctly.” She has plenty of friends her inner circle knows nothing about, and nobody on either side knows who she really is.
Full story below.
I’m sorry I didn’t say goodbye. Nobody did anything to me today, but this just wasn’t worth it.
My AO3 and tumblr are both gone. I didn’t say goodbye because I didn’t want to look like an attention seeker.
Here’s the thing. I wasn’t going to name drop, but you guys need to know the truth. I’m instructing my boyfriend (hi y’all) to turn asks off for his own safety after this because this is going to be a nightmare, but... allow me to tell you the full story. I’ll try to break up the text so it’s less difficult to read, but this is important. I’m sorry to air discourse so publicly, but please... I need you to listen to me.
I’ll start from the beginning, without being vague anymore about who “she” is. I request that you please read the whole thing and not skip parts of it. The whole story matters.
I finally returned to the fandom about two months or so ago. As I’ve mentioned, I don’t do well in my thoughts while left alone too long, so I posted saying I would stop messaging people I knew because I didn’t want to bother them. There were only two people I was talking to at the time, but one of them is famous so I didn’t want to message her directly saying that. Doing so would have put her in a position of feeling obligated to say “you’re not bothering me” rather than just simply being able to sigh with relief from no longer being contacted.
But the first person to contact me was the famous person, and she asked if I was okay, and told me she liked talking to me.
God, I actually cried.
But, that’s just her. Melodyofthevoid is the type of person to talk to people in the fandom, totally unaware of her demigod status. She comments on stories, interacts on posts, messages first... a pillar of kindness, so it seemed.
But let the story continue.
Over time, we were talking more often.
Mostly sending memes (cause everyone I knew, myself included, aren’t exactly great at holding conversations. No shade. Memes are a love language). I was still in the hero worship stage of our relationship, so my view of her was that that was perfect.
Now, let me bridge a connection with a new story idea I got around December 28th or so, and my thinking she was perfect.
I had recently finished watching Madoka and questioned “If I had magical powers, what would they be?” It then turned into its own story idea, basing creators’ powers around the strengths and weaknesses in creations. I actually realized “oh fuck. My stuff is incoherent. My friends’ works aren’t too different...”
Thus spawned the name “Incoherent” for the project.
What does that have to do with this? Well, here’s the thing that really fucked everything up quickly.
This was not on purpose, because originally the project (which I had told nobody of yet at the time) was all about improving your works, making platonic friends, dressing our personas in cute outfits, and writing fun magic.
While listening to music and thinking of the story one day, my brain accidentally shipped my persona with hers, and I couldn’t unsee it. And I’m lousy at keeping my own secrets (other’s are different) so she found out on probably day one or two about my weird crush because of an ask meme of all things.
She didn’t try to put me off any, which was another problem for future things to come, and so I decided that since Incoherent was finally making me feel alive again and feeling the euphoric feelings of love wouldn’t hurt anything (I figured they’d mellow out on their own eventually because that’s how infatuation works) since they helped fuel my inspiration, and then we would just continue from friends to better friends one day and this part of our lives would be over.
Besides, the forbidden is attractive somehow, and makes stories more entertaining. She’s aro/ace, so I had no chance anyway. Someone safe to crush on, in her own way.
This isn’t a story of a love betrayal however. There was no such thing. But it’s important to the story because Incoherent is where my mistakes were made, and hers brought to light.
By this time, I had a handful of people I was talking to, and I created a discord server for the project. Only my boyfriend (hi!) and I were in it at the time. I was not-so-subtly asking my friends what they’d look like if they were a magical person, what their names would be... I thought I would have had to lure Melody in to make her want to join us, but I managed to get her in very easily. Everyone was happy and excited! It was a no obligation, no time limit thing for us to enjoy, a little sandbox to play around in.
Sure there were plans to make it bigger and I was working on art to the best of my ability, but it was gonna be a fun thing mostly. No pressure on anyone.
And how things started becoming a problem was that the rest of us posted publicly about the project and interacted with each other’s posts relating to the story, but she had started to interact publicly less and less with our things, and everyone noticed it.
It wasn’t because we were greedy and wanted the popular girl to reblog our things. It’s because we had a feeling she was ashamed of being seen publicly with us. The reason we were worried before then and started making that connection was because I mentioned I was going to ask another user if they were interested in joining Incoherent. Melody was the only one that seemed uncomfortable, and I messaged her asking about it. We agreed I wouldn’t invite that person but I knew things were off about it.
That person is like me. How long until Melody didn’t want to talk to me anymore? A few days ago, the other shoe finally dropped. A member of our little group and I were talking and (let’s call them Friend for simplicity. They asked to not be name dropped here) Friend was worried they had made Melody upset by tagging her in a meme picture they drew of her persona, and the two had agreed that Friend remove the tag. This spawned an anxiety-filled conversation where Friend and I expressed our concerns about Melody not interacting with the project, or us.
So since I wanted reassurance that that wasn’t the case, I messaged Melody with my concerns. I told her I had the feeling she was ashamed of being seen in public with us because of her friends, and she didn’t refute me. She simply told me to go get some rest. I messaged back with “I’m right.”
I deleted Discord off my phone for hours and nearly deleted my Tumblr, AO3, and the server after my boyfriend helped pass messages between us. Melody confessed that was the case because her friends expressed discomfort with my works, and she was playing both sides.
Her words, not mine.
Melody told me she would be withdrawing from the Incoherent project because it wasn’t fair to us if her heart wasn’t in it.
She didn’t stand up on my behalf when they said things about me. Her friends are the type who talk behind creators’ backs for shipping zadr “incorrectly.” Worse than antis because they actually participate in the “pro-shipping” side of the fandom. I broke that day and messaged her at 3 am.
We finally spoke at 3pm. We both missed each other. I tried to understand more. I wanted it to be more like a conversation rather than an interrogation. It was only one-sided however, and she never opened up further. And I made some mistakes and poor choices of words, and we ended up parting ways permanently right there.
I nearly deleted everything, but much like a coma patient attached to many machines on a hospital bed, my blog was kept alive a little longer by people sending kind words in droves. I was briefly fuelled by spite, wishing to watch the world burn by making everyone on the "correct" side of the fandom upset by posting the worst, most vile content this fandom has ever seen.
I was also welcomed with open arms by a very kind server with fellow degenerates, all of them screaming and crying and partying when they managed to get me in their server. It was so heartwarming...
But as I spoke to others about my situation, I realized something. A disturbing pattern.
People telling me horror stories about how Mooping-10 was cult-like. How the people running it were antis. I was even told once that they have a secondary server where they go to have their talks and do their work, likely the place where the real bashing is held.
The server itself has rules against such behavior, but I suppose it's different when they do it.
One person (and this is the most unnerving part for me, personally) told me Melody actually set off alarm bells in their head without having even done anything yet, and the most disturbing part of the story was that one of the moderators was afraid and upset because they got Covid, and received basically no moral support at all. Only getting told "spoiler that. Sorry you got Covid".
I was horrified. That server has 100 people in it. How many of them are the same? They act like popular kids in school who picked up an unpopular main character and then bash others, and the main character joined in because they don't want to be left behind by their new "friends".
To put it short, back to my point:
TL;DR: I simply only wanted to spread the word that: Mooping-10 is filled with people who absolutely cannot be trusted, creating a very hazardous environment for the zadr community, and Melodyofthevoid is connected to all of those people, living a double life amongst those of us that don't "ship zadr correctly". She has plenty of friends her inner circle knows nothing about, and nobody on either side knows who she really is.
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