achilles on skyros (medieval illustrations of a trans lesbian love story)

fig. 1) achilles being put in women's clothing to live as a girl "in disguise" at the court of lycomedes, king of skyros

fig. 2) achilles and deidamia, a daughter of lycomedes, fall in love with each other. here they're playing by a stream 💕

fig. 3) achilles being depressed because of their forbidden (queer) love

fig. 4) achilles uprooting a tree, thus accidentally revealing his Manhood™ in front of deidamia and other women

fig. 5) achilles and deidamia embracing each other, still in love 💕

fig. 6) achilles and deidamia in bed 👀 - the end.

the illustrations stem from an illuminated manuscript (alsace, c. 1445) containing konrad von würzburg's "trojanerkrieg", a medieval german retelling of the story of the trojan war.

source: Berlin, Staatsbibliothek, mgf 1, fol. 140v-161v

pose/anatomy practice (question mark?)

+ school drawing bleh

I know you've already drawn Achilles and Phyrrus, but have you drawn Deidamia?

I actually haven’t thought of Deidamia’s design before, but your ask got me intrigued!

Ok so, there is this interesting part of the Achilleid where Zeus and Hera’s relationship is compared to Achilles and Deidamia

When I first heard of it I thought it was funny. Then I read the poem a bit more and I’m a li disturbed and confused.

So tldr Achilles disguised himself as a woman to draft dodge and he stays with Deidamia’s family and falls in love with her, at first it’s cute, Achilles teaches her music while she teaches him weaving and other feminine things. She realizes he’s in love with her but is too shy to reciprocate those feelings. Over time Achilles couldn’t take hiding his manhood anymore and… r*ped Deidamia.

Yeah…

The implication that Hera and Zeus grew up together is pretty interesting, there are multiple sources about both of them escaping their father but not much on them actually growing up together. Hera being shy about having a relationship with her brother is also interesting bc it reminds me of how, in one version of the cuckoo story, Hera brought up Rhea as a reason why she can’t be with him. It’s this whole thing that Hera and Zeus had a secret relationship hidden from their parents.

This also kinda implies a bit of… dubious consent (to put it mildly) in how Zeus got Hera to marry him. Ironically the cuckoo story doesn’t technically imply assault tho I’m surprised this part of the Achilleid isn’t brought up more.

Now this next part is more of a crack theory so don’t take it too seriously.

So you know how Thetis disguised Achilles as a girl to protect him? There is this story that Dionysus was disguised as a girl to avoid Hera’s wrath:

There is also this amusing parallel between Kronos and Hera (screenshot from @deathlessathanasia ):

With both being scared of by the Kouretes.

There are also some sources that state that Kronos spared his daughters and lets Rhea raise them, so what if… (and again this is a crack theory) Rhea disguised Zeus as a girl in order to protect him from Kronos?

dissecting Suits (Mike x Harvey)

OK, what if the whole show is from Harvey's POV?

Consider it (aside from the scenes he obviously would know nothing about). It starts with Jessica running the firm. She (his mentor/adopted mom/weirdly teasing bestie) is powerful & does what she wants (so he emulates her). When she, then Mike, leaves, the show's tone becomes more grim. Suddenly, every other episode ends with Harvey having a sad drink. Louis (as well as Harvey) goes from rebellious & rude to kind & mature as the show continues. Additionally, the women in the firm go from competent & smart to flawed &...just generally making social/occupational mistakes; this isn't Harvey thinking they're stupid because he has healthier platonic relationships with women than with men--it means HE'S REALIZING HE'S IN LOVE WITH MIKE.

This is evident as Mike himself goes from fairly easygoing to naive to self-sacrificing to a decent lawyer. In other words, he emulates Harvey, which earns Mike Harvey's respect. We all see the interactions between the two of them, many of which mimic the traditional heterosexual banter between a male lead & their female love interest. It's made clear through Donna & Scottie that Harvey's attracted to that shit, so once he finally reconciles his past trauma (related to what made him ultimately deny himself a healthy romance), he's able to accept his bisexuality & that he loves Mike Ross. However, at this point, Mike is gone & married, living the kind of life that Harvey always wanted (not in that Mike is rich, but that he feels successful & is in love). So Harvey takes what he can get with Donna, his last decent love interest (he might also do this because he feels guilty about stringing her along for the past 12 years).

I haven't seen the last episode yet, but I know what will happen. It'll have some happy scene at Harvey & Donna's wedding where Mike (yeah & Rachel) are there. Harvey's happy because the guy he loves who left, came back, if only for a little while. & gods know how bad his abandonment issues are (me too).

Also: Mike is the Patroclus to Harvey's Achilles, Donna's Briseis & Rachel's Deidamia. Just sayin'. (Or fuck, maybe Harvey's Odysseus to Donna's Penelope.)

Another also: that "I've only had this dog for five seconds" is basically Marvey, but change to "I've only had this assistant for 2 days & I'd totally fuck him I mean I'm in love with him I mean I'd do time for him"

Tsoa is not accurate to the Iliad and people need to understand that.

(redacted)

For some stupid reason it makes Thetis and Deidamia antagonists?? Like why

(this one I don't mind as much) it makes Achilles and Patroclus the same age

It retcons the fact that Achilles is actually terrible

Also for some reason it makes it seem like Odysseus and Diomedes are like old when Odysseus was probably like 24 and Diomedes was probably 20 or 21 give or take when they left for troy

Also I will keep saying this but Achilles was attracted to men and women

the song of achilles be like:

ACHILLES: Look at that gorgeous person in the mirror in front of us!

DEIDAMIA: Oh my, thank you achilles.

ACHILLES: Move bitch, i was clearly not talking about you. I told you to look, patroclus! <3

Nala: *to Deidamia* Better watch that big ass mouth of yours, girl!

(Remember that drawing back in May, when you drew Steep, Guard-it Gloria, Deidamia, and Felix the III as children? And those extra drawings involving Steep and Deidamia... You see where this is going, right?)

(yes, yes I do)

Deidamia: Excuse me- who are you and why should I care?

I have not recovered from the fact that Patroclus literally had pity sex with Deidameia. Not only that but afterwards he tried to CUDDLE with her cuz he was just like “yeah she needs this” LIKE WHATSJKAJHDJ

Even I'm feeling bad for Deidameia T-T

Achilles: I have feelings for you.

Deidamia: You do?

Achilles: I feel you are annoying.

Andromache/ Helenus/ Deidamia living their best lives.

From this:

Achilles Come Down: lyric interpretation and comparison to The Song Of Achilles by me :)

DISCLAIMER: So, before i continue i just want to clarify, this is MY interpretation of the lyrics, i feel that the song is not completely sung by Patroclus but by other characters such as Briseis, Thetis, Agamemnon and Achilles himself, so, it's totally fine if you have another interpretation, lemme know :D Also, this song is nowhere based on the book, is just that feel this song fits the novel.

Song: Achilles Come Down by Gang of Youths (2017)

Book: The Song of Achiles by Madeline Miller (2011)

Color code:

-Achilles

-Agamemnon

-Briseis

-Patroclus

-Thetis

This font means my interpretation :) some strophes may have 2 or more characters singing the part, so the part will have 2 or more colors

ACHILLES COME DOWN (2017) by Gang of Youths

Achilles, Achilles, Achilles, come down Won't you get up off, get up off the roof? You're scaring us and all of us, some of us love you Achilles, it's not much but there's proof You crazy-assed cosmonaut, remember your virtue Redemption lies plainly in truth Just humor us, Achilles, Achilles, come down Won't you get up off, get up off the roof?

"just humor us Achilles", talking about his charisma perhaps? Like trying to say that his death shouldn't affect him

Achilles, Achilles, Achilles, come down Won't you get up off, get up off the roof? The self is not so weightless, nor whole and unbroken Remember the pact of our youth Where you go, I'm going, so jump and I'm jumping Since there is no me without you Soldier on, Achilles, Achilles, come down Won't you get up off, get up off the roof?

Loathe the way they light candles in Rome But love the sweet air of the votives Hurt and grieve but don't suffer alone Engage with the pain as a motive

" Loathe the way they light candles in Rome But love the sweet air of the votives" painful to remember Patroclus? Hating that none of those candles aren't lit for Patroclus "Hurt and grieve but don't suffer alone Engage with the pain as a motive" Thetis' desire of Achilles becoming a god, not wanting him to be affected by some insignificant mortal's death

Today, of all days, see How the most dangerous thing is to love How you will heal and you'll rise above

"Today, of all days, see How the most dangerous thing is to love How you will heal and you'll rise above " According to the Iliad (books 19-20) and Miller, Briseis also mourns Patroclus' death, also because she had a crush on him as we previously know

Achilles, Achilles, Achilles, jump now You are absent of cause or excuse So self-indulgent and self-referential No audience could ever want you You crave the applause yet hate the attention Then miss it, your act is a ruse It is empty Achilles, so end it all now It's a pointless resistance for you

"Achilles, Achilles, Achilles, jump now You are absent of cause or excuse So self-indulgent and self-referential No audience could ever want you You crave the applause yet hate the attention Then miss it, your act is a ruse It is empty, Achilles, so end it all now It's a pointless resistance for you" This is what Agamemnon says, but, if you remember when they return to Phthia, Patroclus says as Achilles salutes the Myrmidons, that "he hates the attention, yet he craves it" (of course this isn't how it literally says but you get the idea, if you remember how it literally says, tell me :) )

Achilles, Achilles, just put down the bottle Don't listen to what you've consumed It's chaos, confusion and wholly unworthy Of feeding and it's wholly untrue You may feel no purpose nor a point for existing It's all just conjecture and gloom And there may not be meaning, so find one and seize it Do not waste yourself on this roof

"Do not waste yourself on this roof" i leave it to your interpretation

Hear those bells ring deep in the soul Chiming away for a moment Feel your breath course frankly below And see life as a worthy opponent

"Hear those bells ring deep in the soul Chiming away for a moment" Honestly, i feel like Briseis could say this too, but when speaking of soul, she does not understand Achilles into a deep level such as Patroclus did "Feel your breath course frankly below" Maybe Agamemnon watching him hesitate his decisions "And see life as a worthy opponent" Maybe Thetis still telling him about how she desires for him to become a god, despite her knowing he'll live a short life due to a prophecy

Today, of all days, see How the most dangerous thing is to love How you will heal and you'll rise above Crowned by an overture bold and beyond Ah, it's more courageous to overcome

"Today, of all days, see How the most dangerous thing is to love How you will heal and you'll rise above Crowned by an overture bold and beyond Ah, it's more courageous to overcome" This could also be Patroclus but also sounds as if Briseis is motivating Achilles to keep fighting

You want the acclaim, the mother of mothers (it's not worth it, Achilles) More poignant than fame or the taste of another (don't listen, Achilles) But be real and just jump, you dense motherfucker (you're worth more, Achilles) You will not be more than a rat in the gutter (so much more than a rat) You want my opinion, my opinion you've got (no one asked your opinion) You asked for my counsel, I gave you my thoughts (no one asked for your thoughts) Be done with this now and jump off the roof (be done with this now and get off the roof) Can you hear me, Achilles? I'm talking to you I'm talking to you I'm talking to you I'm talking to you Achilles, come down Achilles, come down

"mother of mothers" he is probably refering to Thetis

"Can you hear me, Achilles? I'm talking to you I'm talking to you I'm talking to you I'm talking to you Achilles, come down Achilles, come down" this part keeps repeating since there's no way Achilles can hear Patroclus

*Notice how they almost say the same thing, Agamemnon saying "jump off" and Patroclus saying "get off", you may have noticed it but i wanted to say highlight it :)

Throw yourself into the unknown With pace and a fury defiant Clothe yourself in beauty untold And see life as a means to a triumph

“Throw yourself into the unknown With pace and a fury defiant Clothe yourself in beauty untold And see life as a means to a triumph" i feel it's Achilles since it is some sort of talk to himself knowing that he won't come back or see the fall of Troy, and that rescuing Helen wasn't HIS real triumph but avenging Patroclus was his goal, which, he succeeded

Today, of all days, see How the most dangerous thing is to love How you will heal and you'll rise above Crowned by an overture bold and beyond Ah, it's more courageous to overcome

"Today, of all days, see How the most dangerous thing is to love How you will heal and you'll rise above Crowned by an overture bold and beyond Ah, it's more courageous to overcome" ok so, this part has a lot and here are my takes:

"How you will heal and you'll rise above" can be Thetis on two options: 1. Achilles ascending to the Olympus

2. Her mixing his ashes with Patroclus' so he could heal and be with he truly loved

"Crowned by an overture bold and beyond Ah, it's more courageous to overcome" Patroclus celebrating Achilles' and fallen Achaeans' victory over troyan soldiers (but let's make this clear, the war HASN'T finish). Patroclus could be crowning Achilles with laurel when both are in the Underworld, the demigod not only being praised by his philtatos but other fallen soldiers too, those who perished in the battlefield and the plague (the ones who had proper prayers and burials before Achilles' and Patroclus' death).

AAAAAA i hope you understood and liked my interpretation, remember, you can also tell me your interpretation of the lyrics too :) sorry for any grammar mistake.

EDIT: also, if you see some letters, words, phrases in bold or without color, i don’t know what happened🤔im trying to edit it but it won’t let me, so, excuse me for it😓

ancient greek/trojan war reincarnation au

After he'd torn his hair, beat his breast, and screamed his voice hoarse, Akhilleus was done living. He was alive, yes, and he would be until someone killed him, but he was done living. Patroklos, his lifelong love and friend, was dead, taken away from him forever. And it was all his fault. So once he could find the strength to stand, he put on the armor his mother commissioned for him and clawed his way through Hektor's people until the prince, Patroklos's killer, showed himself. He avenged his love. Then he took his anger out on those marked as the enemy until Apollo's poisoned arrow granted him the death he so desperately craved.

Once he reached Elysium, he searched for Patroklos, who embraced him. The man was sad to know that Akhilleus had suffered, but happy to see him again. The two were glad to be together. But Akhilleus missed the land of the living. He told Odysseus as much when the man visited the Underworld for answers on his way home to Ithaca. There was no lyre to play, no sunlight to enjoy, and really nothing to look forward to. But there was the River Lethe, the River of Forgetfulness that could wipe a spirit's memories in preparation for their reincarnation. Patroklos proposed that he and Akhilleus be reborn, for another chance at life. Akhilleus agreed to the plan, but he needed to make sure that he'd see his love again--all of them.

---

September 9th, 2006

"My thanks, Lord Aidoneus. You are most generous," Pogue whispered in Ancient Greek, eyes closed as his body repaired itself and his mind wandered to days past.

"Huh?" Reid and Ty had just come back from the vending machine. With one of their friends off on a suicide mission and the other in a coma, it was hard to simply sit quietly. But what else was there to do, other than take a few minutes to collect their thoughts?

---

Two Years Later

It was a shy kiss, one much softer than the first he'd shared with Jayn months before and the (technically not-first) one he'd gladly accepted from Caleb. But the moment his lips connected with Cassia's, long-forgotten magic sparked in the minds of the four young lovers. Jayn and Caleb regarded each other, first with curiosity, then with surprise, fondness, and a firm hug.

"Patroklos," Deidamia-Jayn murmured, "It's so good to see you again." She pulled back, and Patroklos-Caleb rested his forehead on hers as he smiled.

"What became of your son?" he asked her, and she frowned.

"Little shit gave me to his slave, Helenus. Not that the man wasn't handsome or kind, but--seriously?" She huffed, then looked over at the man who had fathered her child and joined her spirit with his.

Akhilleus-Pogue held Briseis-Cassia close. She was shaking, crying quietly. "You...y-you died, you both did...left me with them," she sobbed, and he didn't know what to say. He'd never been the best at consoling people. And she was right: he and Patroklos were her lovers, not to mention the only men who cared about her in the Achaean army. Once they died, she had nothing, and could do nothing but leave Troy for an unfamiliar man and his unfamiliar home.

"I'm sorry," he whispered, pressing another kiss to her trembling lips. She looked up at him, holding his face in her hands. Somehow, she managed to smile.

"You raided my city and treated me like your queen in Troy. And then you made sure I'd never be alone again. At least you did that much," Briseis-Cassia said, trying to hide her pain and shock. She glanced over at Patroklos-Caleb right when Akhilleus-Pogue did. With a small gesture, she told Akhilleus-Pogue to go on ahead. He let her go and took in the sight of a living, unharmed Patroklos-Caleb, his Patroklos.

"You're an idiot," Akhilleus-Pogue muttered before he yanked his childhood friend into a passionate kiss. It was so strong, Patroklos-Caleb groaned into it, slipping his hand into the shorter boy's hair to keep him close. They snapped and shifted, movements and sounds becoming more erotic and sensual than angry and mournful by the second. Even when they were both hard, they refused to part, so they didn't notice the girls in their own lust until they had all found release.

"What did you do?" Deidamia-Jayn asked Akhilleus-Pogue, once the four of them had all caught their breath, "They told me to go to the Lethe before I could be judged. I thought I fucked up so badly that I had to start all over." They laughed.

"It was Caleb's idea--"

"You said you didn't like being dead."

"I didn't! But I didn't want to live without you, either," Akhilleus-Pogue pleaded, "Any of you." Deidamia-Jayn squeezed his hand and leaned into him, the way she usually did when either he or she got upset. He kissed the top of her head. "I saw Hermes going by, so I asked him to ask Hades for an audience. I dunno if Hades would've agreed if Persephone wasn't there...He said we'd have to wait, but he'd let us live again, just once. But we wouldn't remember each other until we kissed."

"Good thing Cass wore her sexy lip gloss for you." The four laughed.

@in--somnium

TSOA rant

I think it is time i bring up my change of tags If you don’t know or haven’t noticed I have changed most tags on my Iliad and “TSOA” posts tags to Anti-madeline miller, there are multiple reasons for this for one re-reading Tsoa her blatant fetishism of gay men is clear and she misuses the mythology and each characters original characterization, But i’m getting ahead of myself.  I’m going to start with Patroclus because he is a protagonist in this, which I admit isn’t a bad idea in itself but she changes so much about him that is hard to recognize but let's start with his age, while we don’t know his exact age we do know that he is older than Achilles because he was a squire, role model, and counsel to him, But she changes this which I admit makes sense when trying to appeal to a modern audience but in doing that you strip him of any solo characterization and authority, He goes from an angry boy to a generally calm man who can make good decisions which really makes his choice to go into battle in disguise really impactful. But she changes that and therefore changes his original personality. Speaking of personality she does something bluntly homophobic which is the feminization of Patroclus’s character, Patroclus goes from a very good warrior, strategist and medic to only a medic in her “Retelling” it is very reminiscent of the “Warrior husband and Healer wife” trope as pointed out by @booklover42 on my "Tsoa isn't accurate" Post; fun fact; most death counts either end with Patroclus having a higher or same body count as Achilles and It is never hidden that he is a fighter.

Speaking of Achilles. Achilles is probably the worst in this. A Lot of his personality, relationships, and actions are retconned which is weird for someone like madeline miller who claims to care about the mythology and accuracy of her “retellings” to do. The first thing I really hate is his relationship with Thetis, his mother. Her overall characterization is horrible, in the iliad she is a caring mother who might be slightly overbearing but she isn’t nearly as bad as she is in this. Her interactions with Patroclus automatically turns the reader against her even after finding out she was forced into marriage.

AND SPEAKING OF MARRIAGE. I will say this over and over and over again. Achilles was sexually attracted to women and men (or at least patroclus). You have no idea how angry I get when I see posts talking about how Achilles was gay. Because 2 things 1. No he wasn’t, he was just Greek literally no one would care about him having a male lover (expect maybe Peleus even then it would be more about the heir aspect of yk having a wife) the only point anyone has a thing to say about his relationship with Patroclus in a negative light is in  that one Shakespearean play where they just complain that they are having too much sex and aren’t doing anything. And Actually saying he was gay is weird because they didn’t have a word for it (Well actually that's kind of a lie they had pederasty, eromenos, and Kinaidos but uh) and 2. He had a wife and at least 1 sex slave of which I will get into later. But on to the marriage thing, His marriage to Deidamia wasn’t her sexually assaulting him or really even forced by thetis like it's implied (actually in one account its said that Achilles sexually assaulted her) but like no, in most versions they just started a intimate relationship while he was in disguise and eventually got married and then he left for war. She wasn’t a big character in the Iliad but she was nowhere near as antagonistic and Madeline miller describes her as. Another fun fact actually Neoptolemus was never taken by thetis?, I don’t know where Madeline got that from but it was in none of the sources I read. But Deidamia actually begged and tried to convince Neoptolemus not to go to war just like Thetis did with Achilles. And Actually let me get to the sex slave  Briseis, someone everyone loves in tsoa but her original character is nice, like actually she doesn’t have a lot of screen time but she is a good character, she was someone of decent standing reduced to a sex slave and a prisoner of war and a thing to be passed off and taken away at a king's wish not to mention she was promised that she would be married but achilles died before they had the chance and when his son arrived and wanted her she would rather try to run away and die in the process then be handed off to him. She is an amazing character and she is a good representation of what war looked like for the people taken captive but in tsoa she is made to be a pity character only used to make the main characters look like good men. I have nothing else to say at least right now anyway I may add to this later but yeah