#this is not an anti-cas post to be clear. or even really anti-destiel? | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 9 months

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*logs in and sees even more anti-destiel posts*

Must be a day ending in Y.

Here's the thing: ship what you want, don't ship, whatever. That's your right. You also can have opinions on said ships or not shipping something. But for the love of God, can we please stop misrepresenting supposed facts and outright lying? Just because you don't want to acknowledge something present in the show? Or because one of you is super obsessed with Jensen while at the same time hating him because he married someone else and didn't come to sweep you off of your feet because you're his supposed soulmate? (which btw, while very weird in general, what does that even have to do with destiel? why are you even weighing in when it's clear that you're only saying what YOU believe while trying to speak for him as if you two are a single unit? It's creepy and makes no sense. Keep your obsession in check, please)

Alright, let's get started:

1) Jensen's actual words:

Firstly, if you're going to quote someone and state their opinion on the matter as FACT, let's not only get the source right but also list it so people can see what the person had to say for themselves so they can not only get the actual facts but come to their own conclusions (critical thinking, remember?). It's literally a link you can put into the post from YouTube, it's not rocket science last I checked.

youtube

29:35 is where it starts

A woman asks when did Jensen know about Cas' "romantic, deep love" for Dean before 15x18. Meaning when he did know bts as an actor.

Jensen's answer: "I don't think Dean ever really knew until the very end there." -- not only does he not answer the question in its original form (and hey, it's a con, it's loud, tons of people there waiting for his answer, he probably wasn't prepared for this question, etc - so I get it, I'm not criticizing him, I'm just stating facts), he responds initially for Dean, not himself.

But in this initial answer, he even acknowledges what the woman just said. "Romantic, deep love" -> "I don't think Dean ever really knew until the very end there." LITERALLY RIGHT THERE - Dean didn't know it until it was said

No matter what comes after this from him, Jared, or even what Jensen has said at cons afterwards, his answer literally confirms what she just said, and that answer is what popped first into his mind.

Then, prepare to have your mind blown antis, he confirms it AGAIN: "In fact, I know he didn't, because I didn't play that." -> he played Dean as not knowing about Cas' "romantic, deep love"

Only then does he start to delve into talking about the term romantic with Jared interrupting. But he confirmed it TWICE with his own words. That doesn't nullify his opinion or his perspective on the relationship, but it does confirm that was the intention of the scene.

And again, the question was about when they knew bts about Cas' "romantic, deep love" for Dean, not what Dean felt, not what type of love Jensen considers it to be (or Jared), not whether romance was meant to be in the show or not. Through his own words, he confirms it. Twice. (watch it again)

2) Types of love:

I can't believe this is even a point some people have tried to make in attempting to invalidate the scene from 15x18 but it's 2023 and here we are.

Philia love is platonic/friendly love. (click on the links - since it was mentioned that Cas only has angelic/heavenly/brotherly love for Dean and Castiel's angel character is loosely based on Christian traditions, I chose the same Christian perspective in these links) Storge love is the love of family or brotherly love.

Agape love is NOT brotherly love. (if you're going to use these terms and claim you're an expert, perhaps learn what they mean first?) Agape love is a God-like love of humans, completely unfathomable.

All of this is easily searchable. Google is your friend.

Now agape is the closest to what Jensen says later in that panel (though it changes to philia mixed with storge in a later con) though he did not use that specific term. However:

The scene was written and performed with romantic intentions from Castiel's side. This is confirmed time and time again.

youtube

And since a lot of anti-Destielers tend to be anti Misha as well (and accuse him of placating, lying, and being downright manipulative when it comes to this topic), here are some other confirmations:

youtube

The script is available online (again, Google is your friend) and you can read it for yourself. Robert Berens, the screenwriter, wrote the script (and it was greenlit by Andrew Dabb, the showrunner, and kept in the episode with the network, Singer, and WB giving it the green light after reviewing it before it aired) with Castiel's confessing his romantic love for Dean. It's right there.

If it's not romantic, then why can't Dean "recriprocate"? Why is he shocked at the "declaration from his best friend"? Why is it Cas' "hidden truth"? If it's just platonic from Cas' side or familial or even a God-like love of a human then why all of these factors mentioned in the script to help guide Jensen and Misha in performing the scene? You know why. And one of these antis is the supposed acting expert in the fandom? Puhlease.

How's that for "script analysis"?

Not to mention, since it's clear these same antis don't know a thing about writing and how it actually works, why was this scene a part of Castiel's arc that connects back to his arc in season 15?

youtube

3:49 - "I know who you love"

Yep, they weren't planning the confession back then, but when the showrunner and the writing team did start planning the end of the character's journey going into season 15, this ties up Castiel's arc neatly and it's perfect foreshadowing. Right down to The Empty's involvement. And they tied it up this way why? To make sense with events that came before it so a visible narrative is present for this character's journey as well as showing his development. (that's literally writing 101 btw)

There's a shit ton more I could throw into this post but I think I've made my point. So the next time antis decide to sit there and scold people who ship/celebrate Destiel and tell them that they don't understand "script analysis" like you do or how dare they twist Castiel's love for Dean into something it's not because you're playing megaphone-turned-into-a-wannabe-parrot for Jensen (aka your point of unhealthy fixation) because Castiel only meant it as an angel, perhaps don't. Or at least look up the facts first before you spout off any of that nonsense. You've had no problem saying Jensen needs to take an acting lesson or two because he's basic and dilutes his characters while also having one note acting, so maybe you should take a writing lesson or two. 🤷‍♂️ Seems fair.

Think whatever you want about Dean and how he regards Castiel's romantic confession, or how Jensen sees it, or whatever you need to tell yourself since it was left ambiguous, but don't you dare sit there and tell people they're wrong for reading Castiel's love the way it was written, performed, and intended to be perceived -> romantic. Or imply that they lack a basic understanding of love, condescend to them to have to explain it to them as if they're idiots, and falsely accuse them of maliciously twisting your fantasy beloved's Jensen's words. Especially when it's very easily proven that the only ones in the wrong here are you, and this is very clearly a "you" issue.

It happened.

It was romantic.

Get over it.

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vaicomcas · 2 years

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My Castiel Manifesto, Intro

I have made some postings of commentary about narratives on Castiel that I have strong (probably unpopular) feelings about. They are called My Castiel Manifesto, Part 1-6. Tags should make it clear the color of these posts. I am still completely flabbergasted at why I even care about all this fictional stuff. But it’s like a compulsion, like something choking me that I have to spit out.

I am new to social media and I am finding it very challenging; specifically, it is very difficult to voice unpopular opinions without appearing like a troll, or disrespectful, or picking a fight.

For example, I do completely understand why people would ship destiel, and how the show did have plenty of substrate to make that realistic; and why it would be important for many people who really see the show that way and feel that way, including the LGBTQA+ community, and I support that completely and sympathize with their anger and disappointment, but I personally don’t like Dean’s treatment of Cas and feel bitter about the “Dean and Cas are so in love” narrative. Yet, it feels strange to voice it, like I am being contrarian or worse, homophobic. Or at least letting petty personal feelings about fiction get in the way of greater social justice. There is also something disturbing about defining yourself with what you disagree with. ( Edited: I wrote this when I was a naive newcomer to the fandom. After some months on Tumblr now I think it is wrong to equate “anti-destiel” with “homophobia” and I no longer support destiel nor the notion that somehow the shipper fans “deserve” to have destiel be canon (not that I care about canon)-- it was a destiel brainwash because when I first started searching for Castiel content online that was the ONLY opinion that I found. I am far more bitter and anti-dean now. I left the original post in to show the effect of brainwashing, how easy it happens, how reasonable it looks on the surface. )

But my feelings just won’t stay quiet and so here it goes, nobody will see it anyway.

Part 1: "You changed me" (not)

Part 2: The Profound Bond is not all there is to Castiel

Part 3: "I do know what blind faith is"

Part 4: Dean is America, Castiel is Immigrant

Part 5: Unrequited Love

Part 6: One Final Question

Additional manifestos:

Point of No Return for Castiel’s Self-worth

Castiel does not need to be fixed

“I won’t debate logic with you”

The machine who didn’t want to be

My Crowstiel awakening

Castiel was systematically punished for his power

Dean’s performance of grief

Castiel’s rebellion and punishment

Castiel’s Courage

Alternate version of Castiel’s confession

Dean Winchester is the true evil God of SPN

Justice for Godstiel

#Castiel deserves better #My Castiel Manifesto #dean critical #anti dean winchester #anti winchesters #spn critical

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sortasirius · 4 years

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what makes you think the writers want deancas? not trying to be an asshole, i'm just genuinely curious as to why you think that. i know berens' episodes are pretty heavy with subtext so i can see why you'd say that he wants it, but i'm not so sure about the rest of the writers/dabb. it seems like meghan isn't a huge fan either, given her "they twisted it so fast" tweet :/ of course she's a very new writer (think she's only writing one ep this season?) but still

OKAY this is a great question, welcome to my dissertation.

I’m going to address the end of your question first. Meghan is actually DeanCas positive, she has been for quite a long time. She actually, a few years back, posted a picture of her reading a literal book about Destiel and captioned it “writing reading” or something like that.

This whole thing just comes out of a boiling over of tensions because of how nasty fandom twitter can be. Like I said here, I think this has just gotten blown out of proportion, they shouldn’t have posted all this randomly disparaging stuff, but also like...can you blame them? The fandom is a lot, we always have been, and they’re probably also under a gag order not to talk about the finale, and are annoyed that people keep asking.

So nah, Meg is not anti Destiel.

To the first part!! So let’s take a look at the show runners since Cas has been around.

Seasons 4 and 5: Kripke

Seasons 6 and 7: Gamble

Seasons 8-11ish: Carver

Seasons 11ish-15: Dabb

So starting with Kripke. Okay, yes, I will be the first to admit that we have some pretty incredible Destiel moments in these seasons, but it’s less directly written into the plot and much more from Misha and Jensen’s uhhhh ~chemistry~. The only times it was directly written into the script was when the episode was handled by someone like Edlund (“On The Head Of A Pin,” “The End,” “My Bloody Valentine”). And you have to remember, if in season 5, there are moments here and there where you’re like huh that’s suspiciously romantic dialogue, remember that Cas took Anna’s place. Anna was supposed to be endgame for Dean, but due to a myriad of issues and Misha’s general greatness, Anna was replaced with Cas.

Onto 6 and 7. Hmmm. Gamble. 6 and 7 are my two least favorite seasons and that’s no secret, and that’s not only due to the plain old weird shit in the overall storyline, but also that homegirl killed off Cas in s7 and then Bobby like four episodes later. (Also it ALWAYS rubbed me the wrong way they couldn’t have Baby in that season lol). We still had some great DeanCas moments, but again, it wasn’t really written into the overall arc (until they had to change the end of season 7 because of tanking ratings and bring Misha back lol, anyone remember the fact that Dean kept Cas’ jacket and would randomly dream of him? Yeah.). But we still had those moments, those distinctly romantic moments, probably the best example in these two seasons is from Edlund again, specifically “The Man Who Would be King,” I wrote a little about that here.

We move onto Carver, who gave us, at this point, the most overt DeanCas season with season 8 (season gr8 is a better name imo), and this is the first time Dean and Cas’ relationship is directly written as an arc of the season. I mean, you have everything in Purgatory, Dean “seeing” Cas everywhere, the fact that he felt so guilty that Cas stayed in Purgatory that he manipulated his own memories to think that he was the one that failed Cas, because he couldn’t comprehend that Cas would want to leave him, and let’s not forget Dean snapping Cas out of Naomi’s hold on him in “Goodbye Stranger.” It was a very obvious shift, not enough to alert the general audience, but more than enough for most of us in fandom.

It’s also important to note that this is when Andrew stopped co writing with Loflin and started writing his own episodes (”Hunter Heroici” anyone?) I like Loflin fine, but Dabb was able to stretch his legs a little bit more once he stopped co-writing, and we also began to see some DeanCas themes in his solo episodes.

In any case, them and their issues being a big part of the seasons continued with Carver, and Berens entered the scene, his first episode (”Heaven Can’t Wait”) is one of my favorites, with human Cas and the fanfiction gap and Dean and Cas just generally being awkward and funny and sweet. This is Bobo’s FIRST episode, remember that. He comes right out of the gate with it.

Also in Season 9, this is when Dean takes the Mark of Cain, and the Cas/Colette mirror is born, so obviously, Dean and Cas are the fabric of the season once again. This is also the season where Metatron says Cas is “in love with humanity,” and then immediately refers to Dean as Humanity so uhhhh yeah.

Onto season 10, Dabb and Berens continue with their greatness (I could write pages on the DeanCas date in “The Things We Left Behind” alone). And then we have one of the best scenes in the entire show in “The Prisoner” where the Cas/Colette mirror continues and Dean, driven by grief and pain and rage and the Mark, still doesn’t kill Cas. He still can’t kill Cas.

Season 11 is important because it takes choice away from both Cas and Dean, and shows us, as the audience, how much losing each other takes out of them. We saw in season 10 how much losing Dean takes from Cas, but what about Cas losing Dean? Dean loses his choice with his connection to Amara this season, and loses even more when Lucifer reveals he’s been possessing Cas, and plays on Dean’s connection to Cas like a mockery. It’s also worth noting that, similarly to season 8, Dean breaks out of the connection with Amara when he’s worried about Cas, and that’s something that even SHE is surprised by.

But then season 12, the beginning to the Renaissance. This is when we get the writer’s that become important for what Dean and Cas are today, and, truly, why I believe they want canon Destiel as much as we do.

This is the first season with Dabb’s writers: Davy Perez, Meredith Glynn, Steve Yockey, and of course Bobo all come in with their incredible talents and gave us episode after episode of good content. “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets” is probably my favorite, probably the best example of what I’m saying. An episode where Dean is called out by an enemy directly, told to “roll the dice” on Cas’ life. And Dean won’t, it’s not even really a hesitation. And this comes from a character that has known Dean for ten seconds. I also wrote more in depth about this episode here. There are also some.....distinctly domestic details we get this season, specifically in “The Future” (written by Berens and Glynn) with the mixtape. The most tropey of tropes mixtape. Yeah, I’ll just leave that one here.

And then season 12 ends with Cas’ death, but also with the parallel between Sam and Dean with Jess and Cas. Sam literally has to drag Dean away from Cas, just like Dean had to drag Sam out of his burning apartment in the pilot. The episode drives it home in every way that it can: Dean is the one left kneeling by Cas’ body, while Sam goes to find out what is upstairs. Dean is the one who stares at the sky, finally broken. This isn’t a random thing, this is Dean’s whole arc, it’s the entirety of the beginning of 13. Dean’s pain, his anguish, his anger.

Season 13 starts with them burning Cas, with Dean, who has begged God to bring him back, who has split his knuckles punching a door, standing, staring at Cas’ pyre with brokenness on his face.

I mean.....

Anyway, season 13 is where it gets interesting (well, I think all of this is interesting but I’m a writer nerd so). So Cas comes back from the Empty in “Advanced Thanatology” written by Steve Yockey, and then a wombo combo of “Tombstone” by Davy Perez next (”Brokebacknatural” as the PR said at the time). Listen. This is the part that SPN crossed a line that they couldn’t come back from. With Cas being Dean’s “big win,” the fact that Dean and Cas watch movies together, “I told you, he’s an angry sleeper. Like a bear.” Talked about it here.

This is where, in my opinion, the network stepped in, but the damage was already done. They had already established that Cas was Dean’s big win, that Dean’s poor coping was not due to Mary’s disappearance, but solely due to Cas, and that Dean and Cas have more married energy than anyone else. The network had nixed blatant canon at this point, and they writing room had been pushing the boundaries of what the network would allow.

After these episodes, we see a marked drop off of DeanCas heavy scenes. They’re still there, still a part of the fabric of the season, but not as...obvious as it had been in early season 13.

And this continued through season 14, we’re back to scraps of Destiel scenes here and there, but to me it always felt like there was something bubbling under the surface, something distinctly unsaid in the themes of the season, even after the walk back of obvious “Dean and Cas are in love” scenes.

And then we get to season 15, which, y’all know I talk about all the time. What’s important here is that Bobo and Glynn are both executive producers, calling more of the shots than ever before. Additionally, it’s important to note that, though they only co write occasionally, Glynn and Berens refer to each other as “work husband” and “work wife.” Each episode has just turned up the volume, and, not for the first time, but certainly the most obvious, Dean and Cas ARE the season. Sure, they’re trying to beat God, they’re trying to finally find peace, defeat the final big bad, but really? This season has been about Dean, and Dean’s relationship to Cas.

And not only do we have obvious and clear Destiel in nearly every episode, but we have episodes like “Last Call” which canonize bi!Dean (wrote about that here).

And, maybe most importantly so far, we have “The Rupture,” the breakup, and “The Trap,” Dean’s confession (both written by Berens). And here’s the thing. These episodes feel connected, but also feel like they’re missing something. Beren’s last episode is 15x18, “The Truth.” We’ve all spec’ed about what could happen in this episode, and I think *I* know what it’s leading to. But for it to be leading to that, it means that the network has to have approved what we’ve all been waiting for years for.

Who got this change to happen? Who got the network to change their minds? It wasn’t us. It was them. I am fully convinced that Dabb and Berens quite literally put their careers on the line for Dean and Cas. They believe in them, they’ve shown that from the beginning, but the only thing standing in the way was the network, never allowing them to take the final step.

So, to answer your question: I think the writers want canon DeanCas because they’ve already shown us that they do. Take a look at their episodes, at Dabb’s, at Beren’s, at Glynn’s, at Perez’s, at Yockey’s. They’ve been telling us what’s going on with Dean and Cas for years.

Sure, I’m not in their heads, I guess I don’t know for *sure* that this has been their thought process, but if we put it all together, from the marked shift when Dabb fully took over in s12, to the change right after “Tombstone,” to the new shift, the blatantly romantic shift in season 15, what else is there?

I’ve said for a long time that we, the SPN fandom, are beyond lucky to have the writer’s that we do. They’re all going to go on to have prolific careers and we were lucky to get them at the end of our little show. I give them a lot of credit for what we have in the show today.

Just remember, they’ve been telling us in all of s15 who Chuck is. He says he’s the writer, right? But a writer who doesn’t have control of his characters? A writer who wants to do the same ending over and over because it “works”? That doesn’t sound like a writer, it sounds like a network exec.

They’ve been showing us what they want for years, and the way s15 is going? I think they may have convinced the network to let us have it.

#supernatural #destiel #spn #my writing #anyway yeah i love these writers #welcome to my essay lmao #spn writers #anonymous #lilly answers

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luxshine · 3 years

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Cis Straight Guy watching Supernatural UPDATE!

He has finished season 10, and is now starting season 11.

Once again, proving that he IS the one fan the CW desperately wanted? He actually found the ending of season 9 SURPRISING. As in, he wasn't expecting Dean to become a demon -which given how much he insisted SPN was predictable in the first seasons? is quite a laugh.

He also thought Cole was a "really interesting character" which, again, proves he was the demography the CW wanted. To think, he only watched it because I, the demography the CW kept insulting, recommended it to him.

He has a very love-hate relationship with Rowena. On one hand, he finds her incredibly attractive as she is JUST his type. On the other, he hates her because she's a manipulative witch who is only in things for her own benefit. So yeah, love-hate for now.

Wants to yell at the writers for killing every single female character he loves and has declared he will never love a female character in SPN again after Charlie's death who, in his words, should've just left for Oz forever if they wanted her out of the series.

But of course, loved Dark-Charlie.

Called Claire "a mini Dean" and asked if she accidentally called him Dad on the bloopers.

I might send him the "My two dads and uncle Moose" image.

He STILL claims he doesn't ship Destiel, but asked if Cas was jealous of Crowley and his summer of Love with Dean (And well, you saw the image he made in the last update, right?)

Is still angry they killed Death.

Informed me Sam is an idiot who can only do idiot things. I think he's angrier that he gave Rowena the book because that led to Charlie's death, rather than being angry about the Darkness.

because of COURSE he found The Darkness hot. But he thought they shouldn't have revealed she was Amara the baby right away.

Loved Crowley's orgy. In fact, he still is Team Crowley except for the time when he went "soft". When Crowley does that, now he calls him Fergus.

But the funnies thing this update? Well, back in season 2 when the anti-possession tattoos were introduced, and he was still riding high as a Dean fanboy (he is still, even if he rumbles about Amy from time to time), I asked if he'd get one, since he likes tattoos. His reply? "Look, I like the series, but I'm no fangirl. I'd never get a Supernatural tattoo".

Today? He asked me if I could get him a clear image of the Mark of Cain since he's going to tattoo it on his forearm.

Of course, I asked him if I could call him "Supernatural Fangirl"

He laughed, said yes, and of course said that Cain was cool and he shouldn't have died (I absolutely agree).

Oh, he also replied to Misha's facebook post about Castiel's birthday with a "Hi, mishamigo!" which, a bit late to the party as I don't think we've used that since Season 7 but... Well, he IS the CW fan who got here late to the party. Also, I think that officially makes him a minion, no?

He also asked me who was "that kid on the promos" (Talking about Jack in Season 15 promo). I didn't tell him, but man, sometimes is hard to keep him unspoiled as he watches!

#the one fan the cw wanted but got too late to the party #the one fan the cw wanted but was here too late #supernatural #dean winchester #sam winchester #castiel #crowley #Charlie #he ships it #but he denies it

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sinnabonka · 3 years

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Difference of opinions is one thing, but there is no evidence for one of the opinions. There is the voluminous evidence of Dabb wanting the finale which I laid out in the ask. On the other side is a conspiracy theory. I constantly ask myself what more this man has to do for people to realize that the EP/writer/showrunner who celebrates how great the ending was and how Dean always had to die and how he doesn't care about fans' opinions was never on your side. He is not a victim.

I never said he was a victim. I never said he was a good guy. All I say, network’s fault is bigger. It’s systematic. Dabb’s crime is building the arc ending with character’s death, while network’s crime is fucking up royally the legacy of the show and silencing the narrative because of profit (hi, Texan Wanker) and simple homophobia.

Under the cut, death tw.

Yes, Dean was supposed to die. If you go to @/occamshipper and read Min’s meta you’ll see how this made sense (it’s some heavy stuff, I’m not talking about it, it’s 1 am, I don’t have brains for it, go read her posts if you really WANT to understand what Dabb was doing).

I don’t like it, I see a million ways to end Dean’s story / on screen / without him dying (destiel or not), but it made sense narratively. Season fifteen was crafted! It was built! It has a lot, and I can’t stress this enough, A LOT meta levels to it.

I am a storyteller first, only then I’m a heller. That’s the truth. And all the feeling aside, my love toward Dean Winchester aside, his death was not my main problem with the finale.

How it was framed was.

Happiness in death, letting go, giving up? Sam spending his life longing for Dean? Never actually letting go of his pain? Never overcoming loss? Everyone forgetting about Cas? Scenes with any mention of Cas cut? Dean never reflecting on the confession, even if not speaking up, but actually not reflecting like at all? The only mention of it - “that’s not who I am”, c’mon. Dean driving alone around Heaven? Piss-like beer? No one is there to meet him? Blurry wife? No photos of found family? No indication of Sam keeping in touch with Garth or Jody? Nothing?

You can blame one guy, sure. You can also blame the laptop the script was typed on. You can blame the actors even, whatever spins your wheels. But the roots are deeper. The fish rots from the head. You take out Dabb, there will be another showrunner who will probably come up with another bad idea. But you can’t take out c double u. The problem is not in the cog, it’s in the system. It’s all rotten. It’s the system where Misha and Bobo were afraid to pitch Cas confessing his love to Dean. It’s the system that made good writers leave. It’s the system that doesn’t allow Jackles cradle Misha’s face, for fucks sake.

The original script had Dean’s death, true. We know it for sure. But I am positive it was not as stupid, Sam-centered and just painful.

We will never know, that’s true. You have your truth and I have mine. I was taught to pick my battles, and even if Dabb is a bad guy, he’s not a dragon hoarding all the gold and demanding innocent youth to be served on a silver pate to him every Monday.

If I was not clear before, I am not going to continue this conversation. I will turn off the anon option, if I receive another anti spn ask, I swear. My mental state is worth so much more then any “truth” we can discover here, god bles.

I wish you a good night or a good day, depends where you are, anon. And goodbye <3

#spn #fuck the cw #anti cw #death tw #suicide tw #supernatural #dean winchester #castiel #destiel #sinnabonka answers #andrew dabb

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arcticfox007 · 3 years

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It’s frustrating how a lot of anti-Destiel fans think people are pissed about a ship.

No a-holes, we are pissed that Castiel confesses his love, died instantly, and then we never got to see him reunited with Dean in Heaven. We never saw Dean reflect or even truely mourn to loss of his frelling BEST FRIEND who gave his life to save him. It was like no one gave a shit that Castiel was gone, and how awful is that??? It was feeling like the writers threw away one of the most beloved characters on the show like he didn’t even matter. Well maybe it’s just a fictional story, but stories matter, characters matter, and the Angel who rebelled and fell from Heaven all because he loved one man despite feeling as if no one really loved and accepted him - he mattered to us. He was humanity’s Angel on the show and it seemed as if the show just discarded him.

I’ve been rewatching a lot of Castiel episodes and I’m just getting angrier. Here is the being who gives of himself over and over, all the while feeling alone and unloved. I mean Crowley shows more care and affection for Cas in the entire show than anyone else (props to Crowley)! Even if the writers decided Dean was straight and didn’t love Cas the same way it’s been made clear that Dean did care deeply for him so SHOW IT. I don’t need a kiss, I just want a “thank you Cas” and a hug at the reunion. I want someone to show Cas he’s loved (in all fairness Jack does love his Dad but again, we don’t get to see that reunion either - speaking of, they could have showed that reunion, had Jack tell him he’d see Dean again soon... it’d still have been better than a side note).

The obsession with bringing the show back to just the brothers (after unceremoniously killing Dean as well and marrying Sam off to some random person so we know that he never had a love greater than Dean 🙄) basically threw out years of character growth. The supporting cast became the heart of this show and the show continued to act as if everyone was expendable. It was only the fans who kept Castiel alive all these years as the show kept trying to get rid of him, and now they felt they could do it since the show was over.

Hell with them. Castiel deserved better and I’ll continue to believe he found love in the end.

Thanks to all those posting art and fanfic and rocking the charity donations, you guys are the real heroes here.

And please, if you are one of the people really hurting out there please know you are mot alone and you are not unloved.

#castiel #justice for cas #supernatural #spn finale #dean winchester #destiel #fuck cw #fix it please #personal rant

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nileqt87 · 4 years

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Despair For Castiel: A Review

From a series of posts before and after watching:

Before:

As far as I'm concerned, I'm now imagining the Empty having to deal with Gabriel and Balthazar redecorating the Empty into the angel/demon afterlife (probably with a lot of wacky alternate realities and bad porno) with all the free will angels and redemptive demons invited, Cas finding Meg and eventually Jack again for his true happy ending that he can have and Crowley probably trying to install himself as king again. Then when Rowena finally exits as Queen of Hell, she'll join and Crowley will annoyed, but Gabriel will be happy to see her again. LOL.

Megstielers also got robbed hard with all that setup of Cas still pining for Meg for YEARS, the Empty using her image (not Dean!) to taunt him (the Empty clearly saw Meg in Cas' head when it could have taken the form of anyone, including Cas like last time) and a whole dropped plot thread that Cas made a deal with Ruby to break a demon out of the Empty, which only makes sense with the one and only demon he'd actually want to let out of the Empty. That's dangling one 'ship a whole bunch of carrots (like every single Clarence reference for a decade) to rip the rug out from under them.

I suppose I should've seen it coming when the previously on segment for 15x13 was a Pizza Man and the Babysitter retrospective that shoved Cas out of the Pizza Man role beside Babysitter Nurse Meg to shove Dean into Megstiel's sexy times meme. I guess it turned Cas into just Dean's Baby in a Trench Coat (which was an insult about being useless to Dean's cause without powers, which suggests Cas has no worth to him otherwise), since he got infantilized with the removal of the Pizza Man originally being him.

I still haven't watched the episode. The Tumblr crap is that off-putting.

What should've been an epic moment in Cas' story is now tainted by his love of humanity, found family and free will (his real love story is with all of humanity and finding belonging, in spite of always being on the outside looking in on a life he can't have because he's not human) being reduced to horny girls who just want fetish smut with Dean and don't give a fig about canon Cas outside of a toxic, abusive crack!ship. It's always so immature and vapid!

It was immediately clear when I joined the fandom that shockingly few gave a crap about any character but Dean, even refusing to see what he's become in later seasons. Also numerous examples where they admit having not seen the show in a decade or only knowing the show via manipulative .gif sets. Cas and Sam (if they remember him at all) are just props or prizes to be won. They ignore context of familial/platonic relationships. Canon love interests aren't good enough because they're not the big prize of being a main. I also note the deluge of Wincest girls who hate Cas for existing (he's in their way) in the anti-Destiel tag.

I can't say the .gifs are making me want to watch, even though the dialog is vague enough to still fit Cas' actual character for the general audience who isn't glued to social media.

As for Dean's non-reaction, I had similar problems with Jensen's constipated acting back in 15x03 when Cas finally walked away while Dean looked like he couldn't care less, which the writers coincidentally praised Jensen for (holy crap that interview was up his backside) and completely ignored Misha actually giving a good performance in a scene that actually meant something long coming for Cas. I certainly can't say the same about the quality of this scene, which just looks forced on both ends.

I hope I like the episode more than the sounds of it, but my hopes aren't high. This is not how I wanted Cas' final moments on the show to be.

After:

Well, I got up the stomach to watch it tonight. Thankfully, in context, it definitely got blown way out of proportion by what the Hellers turned it into (as usual). Yeah, even when watching while unfortunately not blind to the wackadoodle fandom discourse, it played out better on screen than the .gifs. And frankly, a whole lot less like creepy Care Bear stare nightmare fuel than the few choice screenshots kept showing (yikes). I still wish Sam and Jack had been there, because they're just as much part of what connected Cas to feeling like part of a family (even more so in the later years), but it's not the total monstrosity it was turned into online.

Average viewers who just take canon as is without trying to read into it what they want to be there instead, IMO, will safely interpret it platonically (even if coming after a particularly hellish few years in Dean's personality rot where the whole friendship was beginning to be questionable) more often than not because that's what the canon has said for a dozen years. Again, I repeat that Cas already told the Winchesters he loved them when he thought he was dying.

It's a crime to have Cas' perfect philia (brotherly), storge (parental) and agape-style (sacrificial and unconditional) loves being immaturely twisted into eros in a way that degrades the whole meaning of the character's journey. People telling each other they love one another when it's not sexual should never be mocked into being afraid to do so because of this insidious, willful misinterpretation. If only somebody had told Cas they love him instead of him always being the one with his heart on his sleeve!

This character went from being tortured into a robotic, emotionless, ancient, not-remotely-humanoid being who couldn't relate to the simplest of human needs to being someone deeply in love with humanity and wanting to find belonging amongst it despite knowing it would always end with him watching them all grow old and die after having families and such experiences angels are forbidden from having (another reason why Jack was so important to Cas' story).

The wording is valid for that philia/agape interpretation, given Cas definitely equated Dean (whom Cas watched sacrificing himself for Sam endlessly, including why he had to be raised from perdition in the first place) with a guide role in his learning to understand humanity and proudly-defiant free will before he could love it. It's valid enough to say that Cas wouldn't have broken his programming permanently without being challenged to question everything he'd ever believed and give up his entire angelic belonging. That much of it did begin with Cas just happening to be the angel who succeeded in the Hell rescue.

Obviously, it's also canon that Cas had a long history of not following orders and getting lobotomized by Naomi, but Cas actually understanding humanity and what free will means did happen only after this particular rebellion. I'm very glad at least that was in the speech, but of course, it's being hopelessly ignored.

I stand by my interpretation that what Cas can't have has always been the tragic version of The Little Mermaid where she turns into sea foam in the end. Cas has always looked in on what everyone else takes for granted from the outsider's perspective. There's a part of him that will always be left out, no matter how well he learns to fit in and how much those around him begin to treat him as a real person. Cas never really got to truly belong with humanity, no matter how much he loves and is loved by it. He's also not getting to stay where he wants to be. There's no Pinocchio ending for Cas that turns him into a real Winchester.

Sadly, Dean's constant othering of him and Jack like they're just more monsters to hunt only alienated them more. Jack was someone Cas could relate to as a supernatural being capable of human emotions, which might also have furthered his draw towards Meg. Sam was also someone Cas could relate to as freaks and abominations amongst their own kinds. Sam always had that same struggle, also with his own family. It goes a long way towards explaining why Sam was always so empathetic to Cas and Jack in a way that Dean couldn't be. All three kept conflicting with that black & white humans = good/other = bad mindset that sometimes creeps in with Dean. When Cas was Dean's "best friend" in the early days, he rationalized it by thinking of Cas as being "like" a human ("You used to be human, or at least like one.").

Yet it still remains true that Cas often found himself looking to Dean to teach him about humanity back when he didn't know enough about it to be inconspicuous amongst them. Dean gave him the crash course in both what humanity is willing to do for each other, but also its flaws and failings at the same time.

Perhaps the saddest scenes in the episode were actually Sam watching everyone poof in front of him. Sam has really been forced to watch a lot of death scenes this season all by himself (as with Rowena), but he looked the most broken by Eileen's. Cas is going to be hard on him, because I genuinely think Sam was far closer to him in the end. Sam was the one who actually was trying to reach out to Cas when Dean repeatedly kept him out of the loop. Sam being left out from the final words with Cas or even hearing first-hand about the deal with the Empty just furthers that tragedy. While Dean has been raging at everything in sight, Sam and Cas have both looked broken, sad and tired all season.

#castiel #anti-destiel #dean critical #anti-dean winchester #megstiel #team free will #dean winchester #sam winchester #meg masters #jack kline #eileen leahy #saileen #spn #supernatural #spn 15x18 #spn s15 #s15 #despair

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wendibird · 4 years

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SPN 15X18 Observations

Let me preface this by saying, I apologize ahead of time if I and/or my notes seem a bit cynical. I’ve had a rough week. (I think everyone has.) But for whatever it’s worth, here are my notes, observations and meandering thoughts on tonight’s episode.

Oh, one more thing though. For episodes 19 and 20 (and anything really to do with them) in addition to my usual tags for the episodes and season, I’ll be tagging them with #dontspoilthefinalhunt for any who wish to avoid spoilers for them.

Pre-Episode thoughts:

So, I’ve heard enough rumors already to know that mooooost likely Cas is going to die this episode. And let me be clear, he’s my second favorite character in this show after Sam. But I have trouble feeling strong emotions for something when I go in knowing that I should. But I’m going to try to go into this one with an open mind.

Also, in the past I liked Billy as a character because though she still had some biases, she still seemed mostly neutral, like OG Death had been. And from previews it looks like maybe they’re turning her into an outright villain like they’ve done with God? Yey.

- Where’s Chuck? Did he just bampf off?

- So he’s gonna blow up in the Empty?

- Yep.

- So now Dean cares about him? (Jack)

- Poor Jack. He doesn’t get what’s going on.

- Yey! Jack is back!

- “You’ve snapped me out of worse.” When?

- They’ve prayed to Michael? Yey for not overlooking options! (Not being sarcastic.)

- Charlie!!!! And yey she has a girlfriend! (Are they gonna kill her?)

- Aaaaaaand there she goes.

Commercial thoughts:

So, I get the whole narrative idea of taking a character that everyone assumed was kinda on your side and revealing that they were always working towards their own interests. I get it. And it can be effective. I still don’t like it with Billy.

I’m glad Dean said what he did to Sam. Even if Sam says (and probably thinks) that he doesn’t need to hear the apology, sometimes it needs to be said anyway. And I think saying it all helped Dean a bit too. He needed to know that Sam understood.

I’m glad Jack’s back though!

- Oh Jack. You’re worth more than your death.

- I’m glad Cas is saying this, but sadly, I think the “we” only applies to him and Sam.

- So Jack is powerless when he came back? Did the bomb thing burn out it all out?

*is confused*

- Yey! Eileen! (Please don’t have her just vanish….)

- I’ma cry….

- Oh no……

- “If I let myself go there I’ll lose my mind. I can’t go there right now.”

- Oh Sam. Always trying to push down his feelings because there’s other shit going on.

- Hug!!!!!!!

- Sam’s gonna drive Eileen’s car. Just shoot me now….

Commercial thoughts:

So yeah… Wonder what Billy’s plan is here with this random picking-off of people but not like, all at once. She COULD do it all at once, she has the personel. (The Empty didn’t kill all her reapers.)

I think she’s setting her own kind of trap or something.

Also, I take it Chuck just vanished? They didn’t say anything about it but that seems to be the impression given.

Still pisses me off though that after bringing Eileen back and only half-assing her role they just had her vanish. (At least Rowena’s in charge of hell, so if she wound up down there again, she SHOULD get a better shake than she did the first time.)

- Donna!!!!

- Eileen’s Car…… *cries*

- Sam’s got so much emotional stuff going on this episode. He’s got this grief for Eileen in the background and he’s worried about Jack and trying to help him, and trying to save all these people.

- OUch……. Double ouch. (Were in references to the expressions on Sam’s face when Donna first comforted him about Eileen and then Charlie made her comment about not wanting anyone else to go through what she did.)

- (Yes, I’m worried about Dean and Cas too.)

- Sam’s still their “Chief”.

- That's weird….. Why does his touch kill plants? (Not people at least.)

- Yeah, she (Billy) was waiting.

- Oh dear…..

- So what IS causing this?

- NO! NOT DONNA!

- WTF?!

Commercial thoughts:

So Chuck is doing this? I mean, it makes sense. He’s gotten petty enough. But now what?

Also poor Sam. I mean, he tries so hard to save people. And time after time it just doesn’t work out. It could be seen as part of “Chuck’s Plan” because of how he wants his big story to go. So now I guess he’s just being more direct about it. Sam isn’t allowed to do well unless it’s been authorized by the Narrative. (AKA, him.) When he tries, he just gets shown the error of trying. (But he’s beaten down if he doesn’t try too. Like S8.)

Also still don’t like how Billy’s character has changed.

- She thinks she’s Freddy Kruger?

- Heart attack? His first “death” was supposed to be his heart. (In “Faith”) Wonder if that’s intentional here?

- Oh god… please don’t tell me they’re going to….

Commercial thoughts:

Okay. I don’t ship Destiel. At all. I’m not an anti though, cause I’m firmly a ship-and-let-ship kind of person.

But that scene while very heartfelt just didn’t do anything for me because it felt more than a bit like revisionistic history. However, I will say, congrats to the Destiel fandom. They killed Cas, but that scene was definitely for you all.

They’re killing off so many people though it’s like… this is one of my problems when I’m going into a situation where I’m “supposed” to feel a certain way. It makes me awkward. (Like the Episode “Lebanon”.)

- Gah, poor Sam.

- WTF?! Is Chuck taking everyone in the world?

- FUCK?! THAT’S WHERE THEY’RE LEAVING IT OFF?!?!?!?

Okay, so my hope is now, since they’ve gone THIS far with what Chuck is doing, that unless the ultimate resolution of the story is going to be “everything goes away forever” they’re going to have to leave some way to bring people back.

I’ll be honest, I had trouble connecting emotionally with this episode. But that may not be the episode’s fault. I’ve been working some long hours lately and I just today found out that someone I work with has tested positive for Covid. (I just got tested today.) Plus with all the election stuff still going on, there’s a lot of real-world things on my mind.

Also, as I said, knowing that these are the final episodes, it’s pretty much a given that things are going to ramp up. (And the people involved with the show have been telegraphing the hell out of Cas’ death, so it wasn’t unexpected. And I get it. Some people really do need that time to prepare emotionally and adjust their expectations.) But I still feel like a lot of the things they’re asking/expecting us to care about, they haven’t put the actual effort into the storytelling to make that happen. I love the absolute shit out of Eileen, but for most of this season she’s been written as little more than an accessory to Sam. And just so he can have some “feels” about someone. And then she gets vanished without so much as a last glimpse of her? (And this episode was filmed before everything closed down due to Covid.)

I mean, his reaction STILL tore me up, because Jared is that damn good at conveying those emotions. But once again, like LAST time they killed her off, it was amongst so much other shit that there’s barely time for him to even feel it. In fact, he even said that he couldn’t because of what else was going on. And by the end of the episode pretty much everyone else in the world is Thanos-snapped too?

And I get it, this episode is clearly not about her. It’s about the whole situation. It just still feels like a disservice to the character.

And speaking of disservices to characters…

So, about what Cas said in his speech/confession to Dean. The revisionistic retelling of history has been strong this season, but that was especially bad. We know from past episodes that Cas has ALWAYS had “a crack in his chassis” and always had sympathy and love for humanity. We know that he cares about a lot of people, and has put a lot of effort into becoming a better being. (Just a few episodes ago he talked about how he truly found his purpose when he became a father. And he also had talked about finding his true family.) But no. Apparently all of that character development was just because of Dean. What bothers me isn’t that he told Dean “I love you.” What bothers me is that it truly feels like Cas’ entire character was reduced to one half of a ship.

Okay, and what also bothers me is that Sam was literally an afterthought in all of that. When for most of these years, Sam has been the one who’s been the most supportive and understanding of Cas. Sam is the one who lately has had the closer connection with him. But naw. He ain’t important, except as an extension of Dean.

And I get they were trying to throw some fanservice to that corner of the fandom, especially since Cas was slated to die 3 episodes before the end. But they could have done it better. I’ve read fanfic that handled Destiel in a more believable way. (I was reading for the Saileen content as they’re often put in as a sister-ship and it can be hard to find fic of them without it.) And technically this wasn’t even requited. Dean looked more shocked than anything, though I admit that's up to interpretation. But someone in one of the discord servers I'm in posted a picture of that part of the script for this episode and it outright said in the directorial notes that Cas said what he did knowing that Dean didn't/couldn't return his affection the same way. So, there is that.

There were other aspects of the episode I also had thoughts on, like, wtf is up with Jack not having his usual powers but wilting plantlife? Some extension of the bomb-thing? Is he radioactive now to anything with “Celestial energy”? But wouldn’t that have made him give Cas problems too? Or is this supposed to be indicating something else? Amara did that too before she started turning lighter, back in Season 11. Is he somehow turning into the Darkness? Or did he come back from the Empty partially possessed by Lucifer? Gah. I don’t even know. I’m just throwing ideas at a dart board now. *LOL*

And at this point, wtf CAN they even do against Chuck? I really don’t know. I’m hoping the next episodes are better, but I know 19 was written by Buckleming and they don’t have the best track record. True, a few of their episodes I’ve actually enjoyed. But sometimes they fall short on writing the Brothers Winchester.

Anyway, I think I’ve probably rambled enough for now.

#spn 15x18 spoilers #spn season 15 spoilers #episode review #my thoughts #some salt #sam winchester #dean winchester #castiel #jack kline #eileen leahy #donna hanscum #au bobby singer #au charlie bradbury #billy/death #meg!empty #character death

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coplins · 3 years

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(1/3) Thanks for responding. I totally see the queerbaiting/kill your gays criticism - it's clear from Misha's comments after the fact that he really thought he was doing something supportive and didn't get how it was the opposite. I wasn't upset with ignoring Eileen because that whole plot was so badly written, and I didn't mind blurry wife because that was a story they'd never have time to tell, so leaving it to be your choice of wife/co-parent (Jared's words) worked for me.

(2/3) I don't see Dean's lack of reciprocation as a problem because Jensen and the showrunners have continuously said that is not their intent in writing/acting that character, so anything folks read into it is subtext. Again, Misha thought it would be better rep than it was. It was a bad call. John isn't canonically a child abuser, just a lousy parent. Both Dean and Sam have done so many crappy things as well that honestly, they shouldn't be there by that metric either. 3/4) But I don't think the finale (awkwardly written as it was) cancels out their character development at all. They are different people - back at the starting point, but not the men they were when they started. Dean is emotionally open; he's dropped acting tough and can talk about his emotions. He can be alone and be okay. Sam is no longer afraid of his blood or turning into John; he can be a good dad. I wish we'd seen Jack and Cas, or heard them at least wish them well, even just a prayer. (4/4) But even though that was crappy to leave out, I don't think it negates the show or the characters. 19 added Cas and Jack's names to the table, and I can be happy with that as the final episode. I was prepared to pretend it didn't exist before it even aired. I AM really glad you're anti-harassment. The shit that even folks like Kripke have been getting on their pages has made me so sad. Dabb posted something about baboons and folks even thought it was about them, not his new show! (Also, sorry to dump like a huge text thing in your inbox. It's totally fine that we disagree on things. I've just seen so many crazy things like people blaming Jared and saying the episode was an ad for Walker and to boycott Walker - a ton of Jared hate in general, really. Or saying Jensen "Destiel Isn't Real" Ackles is secretly a heller who's been viciously silenced by the powers that be for years. And now Misha's getting dogpiled for trying to interact and understand how he fucked up.)

It's fine, Nonnie. :)

Okay, so, just to make one thing clear. If you enjoyed the finale, then I think it's great. For everyone who didn't get their joy sucked out of them, that's awesome! I got to see the Wincest side of my Tumblr dash go apeshit from happiness and I'm happy for them. I've since had to unfollow some of those blogs when they turned bitter and hateful towards those of us who didn't like the ending. I curate my Tumblr (internet in general) experience to avoid seeing hate thrown at ships, actors, characters, fans, or people in general. I unfollow people if they post too much toxic stuff no matter if they're Destiel shippers, angel fans, or whatever part of fandom they're in.

I try not to reblog too much angry/bitter crap either. There are a lot of posts on my dash that I wholeheartedly agree with but don't belong on my blog. And I've written my share of wank and rants over the years but seldom hit post because I don't want to ruin someone else's positivity. When I do hit post I tag it "spn wank" so it can be avoided. If I need to angry-rant I do so in chat. Sometimes I mess up. There are undoubtedly some less than nice posts in the Buckleming wank category on my blog.

Generally speaking, my M.O. is disengaging and/or vote with my wallet. I will never condone cyberbullying. No matter how famous the person, or how nasty they are, harassment isn't okay. Actions have consequences and I try to think of what they are before I act. If I vent hurtful opinions about an actor, it'll be kept in chat, with someone who understands that particular frustration. (Not related to the current situation.)

When it comes to canon, it doesn't matter what showrunners or actors tell us about how it's meant to be interpreted or how they meant to act it. Canon is what's shown on screen, period. As curious as I am about what the actors have to say about things, it isn't important regarding canon at all. I'll stan my boys no matter what their characters get up to on-screen. <3

Yeah, I've seen the theories and the dogpiling. Luckily, I've avoided seeing the Jared hate but I knew it would be there because the internet is a cesspool of people lashing out aimlessly or misdirecting their anger. Even IF they wrote the finale in a way that they thought would put a spotlight on Jared's upcoming series, HE was nowhere near a position of power to make that decision and should be left out of it. I just figured, if it was true that that's what they thought, then the Wincest bunch was their target audience for the new show. *shrug*

Interesting to hear your take on the finale. If I follow people who have your take, they're not vocal about it, or I'm simply missing it because I don't stalk Tumblr. All it takes for me to stop scrolling and go back to my writing is 3 unknown anime posts in a row or one reader-insert fic and I'm nope-ing the hell out of here. X)

I'm not going to argue against any of your points. It's great that you saw it that way. Fuck, I wish I did too.

I kinda feel like I need to address the child abuse comment I made, though. Some separate neglect and abuse like those aren't the same, some only count physical abuse, others include verbal abuse. Too many of my loved ones (both close friends and family) have experienced all three of those categories and the one who was left alone to care for her little sister as a child, definitely has a lot of mental scarring from it, so I'm counting neglect as abuse. That said, I fucking love John Winchester. So it might be Jeffrey Dean Morgan's charisma, so sue me. But John canonically neglected the hell out of his sons. We got proof of that even in this season when John drops his son off for days in a town where kids have gone missing recently. So, yeah... But, on the other hand, of course both he and Mary should end up in Heaven. Like, that wasn't even a question.

I think my strong reaction against it was how every part of the found family the Winchesters had gathered over the years was erased from the narrative as soon as Dean died. The only one who is shown as important is Bobby, a found-family member that initially was connected with John, not someone the brothers had found and connected with on their own. Bobby is also the only non-Winchester in the photos Sam has over his bed when he's dying. I don't know, man, "Everyone's here," simply doesn't do it for me.

"Family ends with blood" like the finale implied, only works if the greatest monsters in life haven't been family members, and my best friends (twins) growing up, just like my mother, were abused, mentally, physically, and sexually, by parents. I've seen the aftermath of those hellfires, how long it takes to assemble the fractures of your being and become, if not whole, at least functional and happy. For them, it was the friends they made along the way, those who loved them when they couldn't, who really mattered.

And that was one thing I really loved about SPN (and still do). Team Free Will. Wayward Sisters. All the people that they met along the way and connected with. I've loved to see Sam and Dean develop their bond by taking it from unhealthy, destructive co-dependency to step by step with several setbacks become their own individuals with lives outside of each other, yet still having the strong bond full of brotherly feels where the love they had for each other was rooted in respect for each other's differences and not who they "were supposed to be for each other". And unlike you, I can't see anything but regression in how the finale played out.

Okay, I gotta stop talking now. ^^ I have one scene my betas told me I need to rewrite in my next chapter, and another chapter half done, and I'm itching to post so I need to get on with it.

I hope I didn't put too much of a dampener on your enjoyment of the finale. My opinions don't matter. We all come from different life experiences and therefore find different things compelling and important. I don't begrudge anyone their happiness. <3

*Hugs*

#anonymous #spn finale #supernatural

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bad-wolfies · 4 years

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I entered anti-Destiel tag, so you don’t have to

Here are some posts that made me chuckle for different reasons.

(Please do not tag anti-destiel or w/e they are entitled to have their space and not ship it with us)

1. Let’s start with some good old made up content about our values and beliefs, shall we?

I’m sure some singular people might feel this way, but I never even once saw any mention of this in Destiel tag. If anything it was about how awful this would be, and believe me I am here in this tag... a lot.

2. I find this funny, cuz let’s be fair... facts!

This is exactly what some of the Destiel scenes are IF taken out of context of the whole show.

I actually really think Jensen did amazing job with the micro expressions in their scene, and I think there was no homophobic or disgusted vibe coming from him or Dean. That said, I think it’s a hilarious meme, and Arthurs expression is precious.

I mean... You’re lying if you watched the trailer for 15x19 and didn’t think it was super random. I already laughed watching the trailer, so thanks for this post.

Again, I’m totally tired of hearing people say Dean or Jensen are homophobic. Even if writers decide to end with Dean not being canonically bi (or w/e you as viewer are aiming for) or turning Cas down, it does not make Dean homophobic, but it’s quite a funny heckle, let’s be real. The pic is perfect.

Haha! True story, tho considering it’s from gag reel wouldn’t it be more fitting as a “whatever people call Jared/Misha ship if it even exists”? It’s a sweet scene tho, I’m loving it for existing.

3. Being a bit more serious though

Well, I don’t know about you, but in all seriousness that person makes a fair point about the Jack thing. I can see where they’re coming from and at the same time I can see other parts which still align with the scene we got. I would like to think that if it was a bit of a slip up from writers, the full on scene is more valid than a singular statement, but that’s just my position on it.

Can’t disagree, can I? At the same time, it’s not really standardized for a couple to fight Satan and God and one apocalypse after another and having to bury your partner multiple times, right? I might not know, I didn’t do much of that “dating” thing in my past. Not to mention, abuse comes from traumas and insecurities, and though it’s not an excuse for being abusive, we are talking about broken characters who have yet to have their character development, which I believe will be at it’s peak in the last seconds of their time on the show.

Disclaimer: If that’s not clear from the post, I’m a Destiel shipper, I just like to hear different opinions, especially the respectfully stated one, and give them honest and fair thought based on my beliefs. Hope nothing I said was offensive to anyone.

LIKE AND SHARE IF YOU WANT MORE OF THIS <3

#supernatural #destiel #deancas #merthur #merlin #cas #cass #15x18 #15x19 #dean x castiel #dean #dean winchester #spn #Jensen Ackles #Jensen #Misha Collins #misha #lgbtq+#canon #ship #castiel

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backdraft-bimbo · 3 years

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s15 review (ish)

Just messily throwing my thoughts out here. I got some pros, and I got some cons. It’s not all negative fyi, and before I dive into this I’m gonna rate s15 like a 6.5/10 overall.

For starters: the usage of Carry On My Wayward Son in 15x20 completely screws the show’s morals in the end. “There’ll be peace when you are done”? Oh let me tell you, the stone-cold irony.

That song is about hope. Supernatural, of all shows, chose a song revolving around the concept that one day, the suffering will end, and there will be a light at the end of the tunnel–peace.

Dean thought he might have a chance at peace when Chuck got demoted, he hoped Sam could live on with a clear grief-free mind, and he wanted to have Castiel in the end. He thought, and we all thought so too, but the show writers decided, nah, tragic shock factor overrules seasons of character development and the entire fandom loudly demanding a happy ending for these characters we’ve adored for years. The writers brushed aside the discomfort and disapproval of the stars of Supernatural themselves as well. And I’m curious as to why. Why is the dynamic of the actors and fans so starkly different from those who had a say in writing 15x20? (The actors and fandom are more in tune with each other, while the writers have become detached and unaware of their own storytelling.) But that’s for another time, and I digress.

My main point here, and one of my biggest bones to pick with the finale is the unnecessary death. Tragic endings only work well if done right.

If death has a legitimate purpose in the story, by all means, utilize it. If it’s only there to make the audience turn their heads in shock, maybe reconsider. Death can be used in a variety of ways: to stir up empathy, bring an arc full-circle, a catalyst for another character’s arc, consideration of morality, et cetera, et cetera. But it should never be a last minute decision. It should at least have been foreshadowed if Dean was going to die, like in the earlier seasons when he made the deal for Sam’s life. As tragic as his death was then, we understood why it was done, instead of with the finale which left us wondering why the Hell would they do that? with a nasty taste in our mouths.

Let me throw out an example of a well-written tragedy: Merlin. Even though (spoiler alert) one of the main characters died at the end, it was not to send the message that death is the superior of all storytelling, which is what Supernatural would have us believe in the finale. Merlin does it well because the entire show essentially builds up to the tragic death/destiny of King Arthur via ominous foreshadowing, but it redeems his character along the way to show that death is not the “ultimate redeemer.” Merlin has a theme of inescapable destiny (i.e. Arthur’s death), and yet by the end of the show you still love the characters and plot because they hold meaning. That’s one of the reasons its fandom is still so active–it ended tragically, but there is hope in the end, hope that Arthur will one day return to Merlin when the need for him is greatest.

Supernatural, Voltron, and GOT all used death immaturely, especially in their last seasons. All because of bad storytelling and misuse of tragedy. There wasn’t peace in Dean’s horrifically anti-climatic death, which means there wasn’t peace for Sam, even though he made a family later on. He grieved his big brother for his entire life (or our two minutes of poorly put together montage feat. pop cover of Kansas) until he made it to Heaven after Dean’s five minute joyride in the Impala. So the message the CW is really sending out here is, “there’ll be peace when you are done, but only after you die.” Honestly, what a joke. It seems more like laziness which led to the finale; laziness regarding plot and characters and everything that made us like the show initially.

It felt more like a punch in the face to the fans/actors rather than a thank you. And maybe the CW intended it to be that way. Maybe they just got sick of people’s critiques and decided to go out with a sadistic smile and a big ol’ middle finger.

For us, peace is only attainable when the show is over, because the writers aren’t in control anymore. They can’t make anymore colossal mistakes.

On the other hand, Supernatural used tragedy right as well in s15. The reason Castiel’s death in 15x18 had less controversy than Sam and Dean’s deaths in 15x20 is because Castiel had a long, drawn-out build up with his Empty deal. It loomed over the plot of all the following seasons. We all knew it was going to come back, that Cas was going to be taken one way or another.

When the Empty got Cas, I wasn’t left with resentful questions or dissatisfaction. He went out with a bang–tears, a beautiful monologue, and I love you. I’m gonna trash the finale the rest of my life, but I will never hold back the respect I have for Cas’ s15 character arc (and Misha’s acting!). Brushing aside his impact in the finale of the show was a very bad move, but we’ve got canon queer Castiel, and essentially Destiel as well, and having that, I feel satisfaction probably equal to the distaste I have for the finale. So they kind of cancel each other out for me, personally (now that I’ve had a chance to reflect on the show as a whole and take a breather).

With COVID, it just astounds me how much time the CW had to think this over and settle on something so poorly written and inconsistent with the rest of s15. Kripke himself chose that ending, said it was right for the characters, which should really just make all our jaws drop, because that only solidifies the fact that the amount of care the fandom and actors put into these characters is tremendous in superiority to the actual show creators. It really makes me want to know now: How much of Supernatural’s genius was a mistake?

How many details were unintentional, and how many scenes were made deeper simply by accident? Was it us, with our essays and theories and blogs dedicated to unravelling the secrets of the show, who made it more beautiful in the end? Because I guarantee, if I hadn’t read posts about Supernatural having deeper meanings early on, I probably wouldn’t have watched it. I wouldn’t have seen all the parallels between characters, and I couldn’t have pieced together the unintended puzzle that is Supernatural.

Supernatural would have been way less enjoyable without the fans giving it so much meaning, and of course, without the actors’ performances. While they were done dirty in the finale, I’ve gotten to the point where I can still love the stars and their roles in the story in the long run. And whether you loved or hated the finale, it’s fun to just scream about stuff with people who are equally as invested in something as I am.

So, I guess... thanks, Supernatural. But I will be dividing my thanks out to the folks who deserve it most: the fandom, the actors, and only specific writers who remain in my graces.

#rant #supernatural #mine #review #s15 #15x20 #castiel #dean winchester #sam winchester

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orionsangel86 · 4 years

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I'm tired of this discussion about Saileen or Samwena. Why can't be both? I recognize the potential that Sam and Rowena had for a romantic relationship, they really seemed to be going in that direction, and as Rowena said, they'd grown fond of each other. But I also recognize the potential that Sam and Eileen have for a romantic relationship, for reasons that we all saw at s11, s12 and s15. What do you think?

Hi there!

Is this discussion still ongoing? Since I have blocked it all out to be honest and refuse to engage in drama on the topic. But since you asked I will give you my thoughts on the whole Saileen/Samwena thing.

First of all I like your thinking! Why not both indeed! I don’t care for shipping wars but here’s the way I see things. I have never been a “death of the author” kind of person. My whole process for writing meta is what I think the writers and creators of the show are intending to convey when they tell the story that we see. In season 11, Eileen was introduced as a clear love interest for Sam. She has always been portrayed this way even after her untimely death (which I still believe only happened because they didn’t have any other close characters to the brothers at the time to kill off whose actors they could get last minute and whose death would be equally shocking - I know it’s just speculation but it’s my belief). I wrote a long post here about my love for Saileen and how it has been portrayed in the show. I am firmly still a Saileen shipper because it was just perfect from the start, but also I only ever “ship” things that I see within the show as being planted purposely by the creators. I ship Saileen because Saileen has always been a thing ya know? It’s not imaginary and never has been.

However, following Eileen’s death in Season 12, Sam and Rowena’s relationship has been heavily developed on. They bonded over their shared Lucifer trauma, their experiences with fear and their interest in magic. The relationship between them is complex and very much an enemies to friends (to something more?) set up. Sam is canonically Rowena’s protege and now her heir. The mutual respect they hold for each other is clearly noticeable and their destinies tied by fate through Billie’s death books could arguably be considered romantic. Basically, Sam and Rowena as a love story is certainly a dramatic and interesting one that ticks a lot of boxes for a lot of people. I do believe that for a time, the writers flirted with the idea of them as a romantic pairing and that there was clear authorial intent to code their relationship in a romantic way. Especially in seasons 13 and 14. Whilst I never “shipped” Samwena, I guess I saw it the way I see Drowley. I believed that it was being intentionally written with romantic undertones. I was all for it as a romantic pairing, have never been against it, but it didn’t feel me with “feels” either I guess. I love both Sam and Rowena individually, and whether the story took them in a romantic direction or not wouldn’t have bothered me. Had Eileen never come back, I would have squee’d and enjoyed it with the rest of you, even if I wasn’t super invested ya know?

I think a lot of people saw their relationship as romantic after the Billie death book reveal. It was a nice idea that Rowena’s “death” at Sam’s hands might be a metaphorical death where she would choose to give up her immortality for him. (It’s also an idea generally adored by Destiel shippers so it’s not surprising that this was something people got excited about).

Unfortunately this idea didn’t pan out and Sam literally had to kill Rowena. I am one of the people who really loved her death scene, because it felt like a true redemption and moment of empowerment for Rowena. I know that there are people who will disagree with me on that and that is absolutely fine. I guess for me, Rowena making that ultimate sacrifice just felt right for her character journey at that point because true redemption was something she still needed. Rowena was always previously an anti-hero character. She had still done a lot of bad and hadn’t really repented or redeemed herself for the bad she had done in the earlier seasons. She was still generally motivated by selfish desires and still pretty much made decisions for herself, though like Crowley, her respect and care for the Winchesters conflicted with her own selfish motivations and in the later seasons she chose to help them even at risk to herself, which put her well on her way to redemption of course. But this death was her actual redemption. Her true sacrifice, purely selfless deed, in order to not only save the Winchesters, but also the world.

Therefore I see her rise to power again as Queen of Hell as a reward for her sacrifice and redemption. I never believed that 15x03 was the last we’d see of her (too much womb and maternal imagery there). I believe that Queen of Hell is a satisfactory end point for her, having reached her full potential and freeing herself of all the former oppression and bindings that she faced. She is now one of the most powerful beings in the universe along with Chuck, Amara, Billie, the Empty, Eve, and Jack. It’s a position that makes sense for a character who has always desired unlimited power.

I also think that Rowena will continue to be a big player in the story. This definitely isn’t the last we’ve seen of her in terms of fighting the final boss battle, but her position as Queen of Hell I do think will remain a fixed position from here. Though if it isn’t, and the writers have something else wonderful in store for her, I will also be happy with that too.

Given that canonically Sam and Eileen desire and want each other, and are only being separated by Chuck (and look, I’m not gonna get real deep into it, but I felt that 15x09 did go far to stress that whilst Chuck set up the reunion because he wanted “romance” in his story, the feelings, the connection, and everything else between Sam and Eileen is 100% real. Sam textually states that it’s real after all (in a nice and also emotionally destroying mirror to Cas saying the same thing to Dean in 15x02 by the way - Forever a Destiel shipper here :P)) it is logical that Sam and Eileen will reunite and rekindle their romance at some point in a coming episode. I am of the belief that Saileen is probably our endgame here. I don’t think that they would have gone to the trouble to bring Eileen back in the final season, make her a love interest for Sam, only to either kill her off, kill him off, or separate them again and not have them be endgame.

But I could be totally wrong. Could Sam and Rowena still reunite and start a new love connection? Sure it’s possible. Rowena is coming back as well I would put money on it. We don’t know how the show plans to end after all. Who knows, maybe Sam will also sacrifice himself and go to hell and that whole Boy!King dropped story arc from season 3 will finally get picked up again! Sam and Rowena as Queen and consort of Hell could be quite an amusing and somewhat fitting end for them! The two characters who suffered most at Lucifer’s hands taking over and ruling Hell as a big fuck you to their tormentor is certainly poetic.

Maybe Supernatural will go super progressive and send Eileen to Hell too. Maybe the Queen will find herself in a loving polyamorous threesome for the rest of eternity?

Wouldn’t it actually be really fun if Supernatural ends with Castiel choosing humanity, and saying goodbye to his son Jack, who takes over the rule of Heaven, and at the same time Dean chooses to stay on Earth, and says goodbye to his brother (aka son) Sam, who takes over the rule of Hell as consort to the Queen in his new polyamorous relationship with both the Queen and his girlfriend? Dean and Cas live out a happy human life knowing they are the proud parents of the new rulers of Heaven and Hell?!?

Lol. Look I’m just trying to find a compromise here that all Samwena and Saileen shippers can agree on and if there is one thing we can all generally agree on it’s that Dean and Cas need to stay together whatever happens and fuck it out on the map table. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I’m joking of course. (or am I?!?)

So yeah. I follow people who are passionate Samwena shippers, and I follow people who are passionate Saileen shippers. I consider them all people who I care about and respect. I just want everyone to get along and if a polyamorous love threesome in Hell is how we go about that then I am totally down for that. :D

I haven’t got beef with anyone regardless of who they ship with who unless they plan to start harassing people for holding a different opinion, but I’ve already blocked all those people anyway. It makes for a much easier life. Trust me. :P

#saileen #samwena #destiel #sam x eileen #sam x rowena #sam winchester #rowena #eileen leahy #season 15 #spn speculation #spn meta #witch queen of hell #shipping wars #my thoughts #asks #anon #Anonymous

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destieltropecollection · 5 years

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Destiel Trope Collection 2019 Day 21: Hurt/Comfort (and Whump)

Lie To Me | @castielslostwings Rating: Explicit Word Count: 27476 Main Tags and Warnings: Alternate season 14, canon divergent at s13e23 “let the good times roll”, angst with a happy ending, Michael!Dean, fix-it, pining, temporary MCD, human castiel, casturbation, top Cas/bottom Dean, Sam & Cas brother moments, alcohol as a coping mechanism, Chuck Ex Machina, hurt/comfort, Castiel whump, Dean whump Summary: Castiel and Sam's plan to expel Michael from Dean's body backfires in a big way, leaving them with an unexpectedly human archangel and the horrifying possibility that Dean's soul is gone forever. Can they bring Dean home from wherever he's gone? What will become of a human Michael trapped in Dean's body? How will Castiel survive losing the love of his life, just when things were starting to fall together?

Worlds Away | @hefellfordean Rating: Mature Word Count: 4240 Main Tags and Warnings: Multiple Universes, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergent, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Interdimensional Travel, Getting Together, Angst with a Happy Ending Summary: "In all the infinite, incalculable number of worlds, you don’t love me. But what’s worse, is that I didn’t need to ask to know that I love you in any world, unconditionally – and unrequited.”, Cas says, pulling away from Dean. Castiel is sent to a place between worlds, with infinite doorways through which he must travel to return home. All of the worlds he visits have something in common: Dean doesn't love him. His world is the same - or is it?

Angel Whisperer | @noiproksa Rating: General Word Count: 2767 Main Tags and Warnings: Hurt Castiel, Concussions Summary: Taking care of a concussed angel is a lot harder than anticipated. Dean might be out of his depth, but that doesn’t mean he won’t do everything he can to make his angel feel better. (Intended as gen, but can be read as Destiel pre-slash.)

Anti-Cuddle Curse | @noiproksa Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 5155 Main Tags and Warnings: Hurt Castiel, Cuddling & Snuggling, Witch Curses, Hurt/Comfort Summary: When a witch curses Team Free Will, Dean realizes how much being able to touch Cas really means to him. (Intended as gen, but can be read as Destiel pre-slash.)

Touch Deprived | @noiproksa Rating: General Word Count: 4132 Main Tags and Warnings: Hurt Castiel, Angel Healing, Hurt/Comfort Summary: Confused by all the human rules for personal space and touching, Cas has to come up with excuses in order to be able to touch Dean and Sam. Or is it the other way around? (Intended as gen, but can be read as Destiel pre-slash.)

longing for grapefruit | @reallyelegantsharkfish Rating: Explicit Word Count: 1686 Main Tags and Warnings: Friends to Lovers, Recreational Drug Use, Marijuana, Oral Sex, Mental Health Issues, Hurt/Comfort, Shotgunning, Demisexual Castiel Summary: Dean lights up and takes the first hit, but instead of exhaling, he leans over towards Cas. It’s not a proper kiss, breathing in Dean’s air, but it’s intimate, and they take turns sharing hits in between kisses. Cas is flying. Cas can feel everything, Cas is out of his body. “Baby,” Dean says, soft in between them. “Let me make you feel good.”

Green Corners | @rustling-pages Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 72533 Main Tags and Warnings: Elemental Magic AU, (Threat of) Main Character Death, (Past) Child Death, Friends to Lovers, Slow Burn Summary: After the death of his son, there is nothing left for Dean other than his garden market. His days are tough, the nights are tougher, but at least there's a reason to get up in the morning. And with the new boom on do-it-yourself garden magic, his business is going okay. Amidst the passing of time, there is only one thing that distracts him from functioning like a normal human being: Diagonally across the street, in the display window of that traditional Herb and Potion shop, plants are dying in masses. Storming in to confront the owner goes differently than he imagined, though. Castiel Novak may be the kind of guy who wears old-fashioned mage robes and keeps his shop in sweltering heat, but he's also a talented herbalist, the kindest soul Dean has ever met, and utterly beautiful. Not that Dean is ready for anything other than friendship. (Not that Cas doesn’t get sick a bit too often.)

The Bone Eater (WIP) | @rachelhaimowitz Rating: Explicit Word Count: 111259 Main Tags and Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence, Rape/Non-Con, Castiel/Dean Winchester, Dean Winchester/Original Male Character(s), Castiel/Original Male Character(s), Hurt/Comfort, Prisoner Dean, Monsters, Dean Whump, Season/Series 09, Set somewhere between Bad Boys and Holy Terror, Size Kink, Non-Consensual Bondage, Violent Sex, Manhandling, Torture, Castiel Whump, Forced Orgasm, Prisoner Castiel, Possessive Behavior Summary: When Dean wakes in a strange prison cell, he quickly realizes he's become another victim of the mystery monster he and Sam have been hunting: a creature who sucks the marrow right out of people's bones. There are years--sometimes decades--between the killings, and no connection between them but men who were big, strong, and healthy when they disappeared. Dean learns right up close and personal why the monster picks who he picks. Unfortunately, stuck behind bars, consistently outmatched, and growing weaker by the day, he's having a tough time putting that information to good use. But Cas can't hear his prayers anymore (and doesn't owe him shit anyway, the way he left the guy), and Zeke might or might not have his ears on (and might or might not let Sam do anything about it even if he did), and Dean ain't no damsel in distress besides. He's gonna get out of there no matter what it takes, and he's damn well gonna make sure this monster never hurts anyone again--especially not the guy he finally finds the courage to admit he loves.

Fighting My Way Back | @deans-jiggly-pudding Rating: Explicit Word Count: 81740 Main Tags and Warnings: Graphic depictions of violence, major character death, canon compliant up to S13, Slow Burn, PTSD Summary: Sam, Cas, and Mary are trying and failing to break Dean out of Michael’s stronghold. Jack is exploring his potential while slowly recovering his power. He has the ability to create, but until his grace is at full strength, his creation must be made out of something already existing. Our favorite nephilim has a plan to use his newfound power to snap Dean out of Michael's control, but what will become of Dean after the ejection? And can Team Free Will 2.0 stop Michael before he destroys the world?

don't leave me | @breathingdestiel Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 1016 Main Tags and Warnings: au, established relationship, angst with a happy ending Summary: Dean is a mess after Cas leaves him. And it's all his fault.

Angeleech | @noiproksa Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 14457 Main Tags and Warnings: hurt/comfort, hurt castiel, case fic, platonic cuddling, sharing a bed, team free will Summary: It was supposed to be an easy hunt, but then everything goes sideways. Dean and Sam have to take care of an injured Cas and find out what is going on with the angel before it is too late.

Keeper of the Garden | @pherryt Rating: Mature Word Count: 5672 Main Tags and Warnings: Perceived MCD but not really, Season 13 Finale Coda, possessed!dean, Michael!Dean, Hurt/Comfort, Saving Dean, Recovering Dean, Angst, Hope, Hopeful Ending, Caretakers Sam and Cas (but mostly Cas), Gardening Dean, Canon, until next season starts anyway, broken!dean, Crazy!Dean, Hurt!Cas, Confessions Summary: Michael backed out of their deal and now Dean's stuck, trapped in his own mind with a crazy Archangel who keeps showing him Cas's death over and over again, keeps making Dean kill Cas over and over again... till he really does and Dean snaps... Finally free of Michael but not of his own sins, Dean is slow to recover from the possession, and is convinced Cas is dead at his own hands. Dean has done a lot of things, both good and bad, but there's nothing that will ever make up for that.

Any Other Day (WIP) | @peanutbutterjelly-pie Rating: Mature Word Count: 21679 Main Tags and Warnings: Canon Compliant, Hurt/Comfort, Angst with a Happy Ending, Friends to Lovers Summary: Victor just wants to finally enjoy his weekend. But when weird reports of a man in a trench coat having been arrested for murder in some small town in Colorado are coming in and the names of the Winchester brothers are all of a sudden mentioned for the very first time in almost a decade inside the FBI building, Victor needs to kiss his free time goodbye. So instead of spending his days on the couch, eating all the takeout he can find and watching crappy movies, he all at once sees himself confronted with an unstable angel, incapable of controlling his powers, a hunter missing from the scene, nowhere to be found, and the other one worried out of his mind about his family. Yeah, that's not the quiet weekend Victor had been hoping for. At all.

You are my home | @DesiraeLovesDestiel Rating: Explicit Word Count: 4774 Main Tags and Warnings: canon verse, bunker fic, post season 11, Castiel whump, love confessions, profound bond, smut, angst Summary: “Cas? Hey buddy, wake up.” Castiel blinked his eyes open slowly, looking up at Dean owlishly before jolting up, nearly clipping Dean’s jaw on the way. “Hey, hey,” Dean said, concern lacing his tone. “You okay, man?” Castiel cleared his throat. “Yes. My apologies, Dean.” “S’okay. You wanna tell me why you’re sleeping in Baby?” Things have settled down since rescuing Sam. Mary is bonding with her sons, and Castiel is nearly back to full capacity, just needing a little sleep here and there. When Dean discovers Cas' unusual resting spot, what starts as a series confessions leads to the emotional healing they both needed.

If This Is To End In Fire | @reaperlove77 Rating: Explicit Word Count: 16279 Main Tags and Warnings: Alternate Universe, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Dean Winchester Whump, Supernatural Elements, Smut, Anal Sex, Temporary Character Death, Happy Ending, Past Abuse, John Winchester's A+ Parenting, Dean-Centric, Haunted Houses, Domestic Violence (not Dean/Cas), BAMF Castiel, Panic Attacks, Minor Eileen Leahy/Sam Winchester, Slurs, Bottom Dean, Top Castiel, Gothic Elements Summary: Dean Winchester doesn't trust easy, not after everything he's been through. When he finds a new home and a new job in Kelvin's Point, he's almost ready to believe he also found happiness for the first time in his life. But what does he really know about this Castiel and is their love enough to keep the ghosts from the past away for good?

When Angels Cry | @sweetdaydreamsblog Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 1068 Main Tags and Warnings: Graphic Depictions of Violence, Major Character Death, Mentions of Suicide, Happy Ending, Hurt Dean Winchester, Emotionally Hurt Castiel Summary: Castiel remembers the events that transpired during Dean's last night on Earth, as well as what happened after.

Eyes Shut | @galaxystiel Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 1493 Main Tags and Warnings: AU, Human!Castiel, alcoholism, drunk driving, supernatural elements, angst with a happy ending Summary: Dean learns a lesson about the dangers of drink-driving, and in the process learns a few things about his future.

And I swear | @notfunnydean Rating: Explicit Word Count: 4413 Main Tags and Warnings: abusive relationship, Dean dates Arthur Ketch at first, hurt!Dean, break up between Arthur and Dean, first time, first kiss, bottom!Dean, top!Cas, crying Dean, Cas saves Dean Summary: Dean knows that Arthur is treating him badly, but he had worse in his life and besides, it’s not like the person he really loves wants him back.

I'm a sucker for you | @notfunnydean Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 3148 Main Tags and Warnings: Drunk!Dean, hurt!Cas Summary: Dean knows he and Castiel are a good team, but he only talks about his feelings for Castiel when he’s drunk and doesn’t remember their kisses in the morning. Someday Castiel has enough.

Event Horizon | @cas-lost-grace Rating: Mature Word Count: 6442 Main Tags and Warnings: Suicidal Thoughts, Suicidal Dean, Depression, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder - PTSD, Past Character Death, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Fluff and Angst,Texting, Sharing a Bed, Happy Ending, Veteran Dean, Doctor Dean, Writer Castiel Summary: Castiel couldn't have helped his sister. That's why being offered a chance to help somebody else dealing with suicidal thoughts he took it without hesitation. When he gets the first text from someone who needs his help, nothing goes as he expected.

Finding You, in Pieces of Me | @lunastories Rating: Mature Word Count: 21263 Main Tags and Warnings: Trueform Castiel, Angst with a happy ending, Post Sam's fall into the pit Summary: Dean is jaded after the loss of his brother and left with little to no hope in humanity. Castiel decides to show the world and humanity from his perspective so that Dean can regain the spark that he’s lost. They visit seven locations that have significance to Castiel. From the Cave of Crystals inhabited by an ancient eel spirit, to the Atacama Desert haunted by a heartbroken woman, Dean goes through a journey of self discovery. Slowly, Dean falls for Castiel and the world the angel sees.

Love me to Death | @lunastories Rating: Mature Word Count: 9219 Main Tags and Warnings: Death!Dean, Temporary Character Death, Reincarnation, Angst, Self harm Summary: There once was a man who feared Death. He feared him so much he tried to seek immortality, but his efforts were in vain. Eventually, he learned to love Death and everything he represented. This is the story of a mortal and a god and their love for one another.

Mixtapes (WIP) | silverstar2419 (Wattpad) Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 8407 Main Tags and Warnings: Depression, dealing with depression, mentions of attempted suicide Summary: Two years ago Dean tried to kill himself but Bobby stepped in and saved his life. Now he deals with his unwanted life the same he used to, strippers and beer. What happens when he finds out the person he loves as more than a friend (or brother for that matter) has the same feelings? Let's find out.

What We Ache For | @almaasi Rating: Explicit Word Count: 93115 Main Tags and Warnings: Alternate Universe - Prostitution, Sex Work, Hurt/Comfort, Romance, Fluff, Consent, Sex Worker Castiel, Demisexual Castiel, Police Officer Dean, Affectionate Dean, Dean bottoms for the first time, Making Love, Cuddling and Snuggling, Injury Recovery, Temporary Amnesia, Supportive Sam, Castiel loves dogs, Domestic Fluff Summary: Working as a prostitute (that’s ‘sex worker’ to the decent folks), Castiel has heard more than his fair share of odd requests. When he’s paid to spend a night with Dean Winchester (handsome, dork of all dorks, has a nice car... secretly a cop), the last thing Castiel expects to hear are the words “I wanna make love.” That's the one thing he’s never done before – so Dean is going to show him how to do it. But then, barely a month after that night is over, Castiel finds himself in a difficult situation, and Dean is mistakenly summoned to help. They begin to share again: Dean’s apartment, the spare bed, their deepest secrets. Over time, with the support of Dean’s brother Sam, a mystery dog, and lots of cuddles, kisses, comfort, and tea, maybe Cas can finally be loved the way he deserves.

Lost Night | @almaasi Rating: General Word Count: 2608 Main Tags and Warnings: Canon Universe, Fluff, Hurt/Comfort, Brief Angst, Pre-Slash, Best Friends, Holding Hands, Dreams, Dreamwalking, Lucid Dreaming, Angel Castiel, Sad Dean, Mutual Pining Summary: Dean is so afraid of losing his best friend that he dreams Cas is floating away. His longing is great enough that the real-life Castiel is summoned, dreamwalking into Dean's subconscious – and, as The Beatles once said: "the minute you let him under your skin... then you begin to make it better..."

Unconditional | @almaasi Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 2676 Main Tags and Warnings: Hurt/Comfort, Romance, Fluff and Angst, Love Confessions, First Kiss, Unconditional Love, Human Castiel, Injured Castiel, Caring Dean, Abused Dean, John Winchester's A+ Parenting, Abusive John Winchester Summary: Over the years, Dean's learned a lot about himself, and the way he loves those around him. Now Cas is back from the dead, and he came back human - and hurt. As Dean soothes Cas' wounds in the front seat of the Impala, an ache in his heart drives him to find words to explain.

Mostly in Silence | @almaasi Rating: General Word Count: 4216 Main Tags and Warnings: Hurt/Comfort, Fluff, Romance, Depression, Executive Dysfunction, Mental Health Issues, Self Care, Fallen Angel Castiel, Human Castiel, Castiel in the Bunker, Depressed Castiel, Sick Castiel, Caring Dean, Stargazing, Stars, Holding Hands, First Kiss, Poetic, No Spoilers, Always Keep Fighting, You are not alone Summary: Dean returns home to the bunker, only to find Castiel is lost in a deep depression. Taking their cues from the night sky (perhaps holding hands, perhaps sharing their first kiss), Dean helps Castiel rediscover a small but shining sense of hope.

Delirium and Doctor Sexy | @almaasi Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 9388 Main Tags and Warnings: Crack, Comfort, Fluff, Pre-Slash, Doctor Sexy M.D., Hunt Gone Wrong, Dean Hallucinates, Age Regression/De-Aging (mentally only), Bisexual Dean, Closeted Dean, Innocent Dean, Character Analysis, Dean Projects His Insecurities, Dean in Panties, Magic Made Them Do It, Sexual References, No Sex, Unresolved Romantic Tension Summary: Dean got hit by a wave of magical gas while protecting Sam, and now he's curled up in a motel bed, watching comfort TV on his laptop and hallucinating. Cas hangs around to look after him. But Dean thinks the friendly angel at his bedside is actually his favourite fictional beefcake, Dr. Sexy, M.D.. With all inhibitions on standby, Dean might admit a few things about himself he never dared to tell anyone before.

Dean, 2 pm | @sternchencas Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 1464 Main Tags and Warnings: suicidal thoughts, emotional hurt/comfort Summary: Cas is done with his life. He's ready to end it all. The only thing that might be able to change his mind is one little note in his calendar that says 'Dean, 2 pm'.

Patch Me Up | @babybluecas Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 1426 Main Tags and Warnings: canon universe, fallen!Cas, minor injury Summary: When Dean gets injured on a hunt, it's Cas's turn to take care of him.

Oh Death, Bring Him Back | @envydean Rating: Teen & Up Word Count: 3984 Main Tags and Warnings: Modern AU, accountant!Cas, mechanic!Dean, hurt!Dean, Temporary Character Death, two-sided unrequited love, Pining, Major Character Injury, Angst with a Happy Ending, Angst, Fluff, First Kiss, Supernatural but Dean and Cas don't know about it, So much begging Summary: Dean is badly hurt after a bar fight and Castiel goes to see him only to find out that the news isn't good. However, supernatural forces are on their side. Castiel follows the doctor quickly, barely a pace behind him. It's as bad as he feared. What if he doesn't get the chance to tell Dean that he loves him. Even if Dean doesn't love him back. The room is reminiscent of a war zone. Several people are crowded around Dean's body. There's blood everywhere, machines going haywire and doctors barking orders. Castiel is frozen to the spot.

Don't Let Go | @envydean Rating: Mature Word Count: 28578 Main Tags and Warnings: EMT!Castiel, mechanic!Dean, alcoholic!Dean, Alcoholism, Car Accidents ,Hospitals, Recovery, PTSD, Descriptions of Injury, Angst with a Happy Ending, Angst, Trying to fall in love Summary: Dean Winchester’s life is a mess. Ever since his father’s death, a downward spiral has seen his occasional beer become something of a crutch. Then, a revelation has him going to see his brother in California—except he doesn’t make it and ends up in a nasty accident, destroying the Impala. Air rescue paramedic, Castiel, and his partner Benny are the ones to pull him out of the wreck and that’s just the start of it. He forms a tentative friendship with Dean and manages to convince him he needs help and that he can be there for Dean. It should have been all uphill from there—because getting sober is easy, right?—except it isn’t and their relationship is thrown into turmoil at the wrong time. Slowly, they learn to accept each other once again.

Like Sands Through The Hourglass | BiP (AO3) Rating: General Word Count: 1643 Main Tags and Warnings: illness Summary: It's always Florida, and it's always witches.

Battle of Mind and Body | @light-in-my-darkness Rating: Explicit Word Count: 164466 Main Tags and Warnings: Hurt/Comfort, Angst, Sexual Content, PTSD, Whump, Slow Build, Additional Warnings in Notes Summary: A confession. A car accident. A coma. The results of which lead Castiel and Dean on a destructive path. Their family and friends fight to alter that path, but without knowing the truth of that fateful night, they fear their efforts will fail. Determined to box up the pain and humiliation, Castiel falls into depression and self-harm. In the aftermath of that night, Dean confronts his own demons. Both the angel and the hunter struggle to repair the broken pieces of themselves. As they try, will the dark nature of their world stay at bay long enough for them to heal or will it shatter any progress they made?

Taker of Souls | jscribbles (AO3) Rating: Explicit Word Count: 128664 Main Tags and Warnings: temporary major character death, Minor Character Death, Pining, Slow Burn, non-con, dub-con, Blood, Gore, Body mutilation, Self Harm, zombie-type characters, Hallucinations, Nightmares, horror-imagery, shameless use of horror movie tropes, offensive language/insults, spoilers for The Witch ,the boys cry, Sickness, Sweat ,Mud, Possession, canon-calibre discussions of religion, the evil dead 2013 Crossover, Inspired By, Smut, minor prescription drug use, Vomiting, Summary: The angels have fallen. Castiel is human, Sam is recovering from the trials, and Dean doesn’t want to expose them to the world as it’s crumbling outside the bunker doors. To pass time in their solitude, Dean discovers a hidden room in the bunker full of dangerous magical artifacts and accidentally exposes his friends and family to an ancient horror. If Castiel thought adjusting to humanity was already a terror in itself, he experiences a world of pain when the ancient spirit Dean released chooses him as a vessel to fulfill its evil prophecy. Castiel begins to change as voices call out to him in the night and take the form of the one righteous man he desires, temptation drawing him to complete a ritual that will allow one of Hell’s most feared ancient entities to occupy his vessel. Before Sam, Dean, Kevin and Crowley know what is happening, they are thrown into a lockdown, unable to escape the bunker as the cruel, twisted monster inside of Castiel prowls the hallways, hunting them, thirsty for their blood, hungry for their souls.

#destiel #destiel trope collection #writersofdestiel #deancasfanficnet #destielwritersnet #tropes #hurt comfort #hurt/comfort #whump #2019

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tinkdw · 6 years

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hi tink ^_^ was wondering if you think both endgame human!cas and endgame angel!cas are both valid interpretations? im genuinely interested as I can't see the whole human!cas being a thing, and I'm open to learn more if you think that's what is actually going to happen. idk his experience as a human was miserable, i feel like maybe im missing something?? :0 u dont have to answer this if u dont want, as it may cause wank. ty

Hi!

Here’s my “overall” Cas meta from a while ago, nothing’s changed and a few other meta writers added to it so it’s a good view I think as to the whole concept:

https://tinkdw.tumblr.com/post/165781313412/why-do-you-think-cas-should-becomechoose-to-be

It’s a really crappy topic for divisiveness, in my experience the people who have, relatively, as much as possible, objectively analysed the author intent in the show have come to a pretty solid conclusion within the meta community that Human!Cas appears to be endgame based not on his experience as a human but the outcome, his overall arc since season 4 and the Chekhovs gun style flamingly blatant reminders throughout the show such as the repeated asking him if he wouldn’t rather be human, his choosing to be an Angel to go into battle powerful enough to save the people he loves and putting what he wants to one side and his clearly not wanting to be a soldier anymore.

It’s kind of like saying endgame Dean is for him to be emancipated and being able to openly watch Oprah and Disney etc even though on the surface he says he doesn’t like that stuff. Because the pretty obvious sublimation is there.

With Cas the sublimation isn’t quite as clear but it’s really all there. Yes he suffered as a human but he literally came out of it and said he missed it, while previous to being human he was curious and wanted to try human things (eg kissing meg) and afterwards we’ve seen him actively choosing to act more human, smiting less and fist fighting instead, acting more human, I mean the big one for me was when Dean asked him “and you’re okay with that?!” When he told him he got grace back to be able to fight and he just totally brushed it off saying he needed it to fight:

https://tinkdw.tumblr.com/post/171244776157/kanayaks-tinkdw-cas-i-got-my-grace-back-i

He later takes more grace which he had been previously rejecting but only to save Dean and then took his own grace back when again it’s needed for a fight whilst telling us the quote that the craziest thing a man can do is die.

He’s literally saying he’s killing himself / his wants for the greater good.

He needs grace for the fight and to be a good useful soldier and to save his family but does he want it?

Want v Need.

One of the biggest themes of the show.

Cas needs his grace to be useful when times are hard but is that what he wants?

In my opinion the show has repeatedly emphasised that it isn’t. I also think it’s clear he doesn’t want to be a soldier anymore and these things go hand in hand.

Others may use canon to say they think it is. Both interpretations are totally valid as long as they are based on canon and actually analysing the canon in a consistent manner.

The issue I have is certain people cherry picking and projecting their stories into it and claiming it’s an overall Cas’ arc since inception meta. That’s just not how meta writing works.

You can absolutely write that stuff but you can’t claim it’s objective and fully inclusive of canon and logical when it is just picking parts that fit your own desire for the character. Like, I didn’t want Lucifer to be centre stage in s13 but I didn’t just ignore it when it was.

Cherry picking things ie the one time Cas said “I just wanna be an Angel” when he was depressed, distraught at Dean’s death and wanted to stop feeling things as proof it’s what he really wants isn’t what I’d call meta writing of the whole story. That’s like saying Sam really wants to be a hunter and tag along beside his brother in the impala on the road for the rest of his life because he was a depressed, vengeful mess after Jess’ death and said ok let’s go. Is it really what Sam wants for himself and the rest of his life though? No way! That’s been clear too.

Even worse when some people claim to be bullied or triggered by other view points. Someone even screenshotted a few sentences I wrote that if you took away the top and bottom sentence looked like I was making no sense and anti Cas (me anti Cas. Lmao) but in the context obviously made sense and decided to create a wank storm about it because they didn’t like human cas meta and wanted to make me look bad. People need to grow up. This isn’t a meta discussion about interpretation it’s being a dick and being unable to contemplate another interpretation.

It makes a discussion totally impossible which moots the entire point of blogging on tumblr in the first place.

Absolutely all interpretations are valid, it’s just a case of how you pitch your interpretation. If you want to state your interpretation of a character absolutely go for it! I used to be all up for Angel!Cas meta until a few utter assholes decided to be personal and ridiculous about it. Now I don’t touch it with a barge pole. Same as M*gstiel.

But that doesn’t invalidate anyone’s good, thought out, canon analysing endgame Angel!Cas meta.

For example my own interpretation of the siren episode is different to many other meta writers, we can discuss it and have polite and great conversations without getting triggered / defensive because we aim to discuss author intent, our own interpretations and do so in a civil manner. There’s one meta writer in particular I’ve had altercations with in the past over some differences of opinion on speculative things and ways of writing meta but who I get on well with, admire and like talking to because we are adults and literally get over it.

There’s also a few people who unfortunately though I agree meta wise about things on the show have been so nasty irl to myself and others that I’ve cut them off completely.

Interpretations are interpretations until they are canon, I’m lucky that most of mine have become so or are clearly on their way but I can also be wrong ie I thought Asmodeus would be more important to character exposition than he was, life moves on. I also didn’t realise quite what it would mean that he would be a Bucklemming own concept and not really used by anyone else, I thought perhaps he’d be used by others by the wasn’t, now I have that knowledge in my pocket meta on anything that sets up for Bucklemming use is kinda meh don’t bother analysing it much it’s probably not hugely important to the overall story being told by the showrunner, ie Nick.

All interpretations are valid is very true. Eg. I can interpret Cas’ story as a metaphor for a queer kid (and in particular trans) coming from a conservative family and emancipating themselves and someone else can interpret it as an immigrants story.

If the show starts changing this then I will change my meta, because my meta is an analysis of what the show is doing, not what I want. For example I never wanted Dean to be queer representation, I was totally heteronormative and would have been totally cool with him ending up alone or with a woman, it’s the show that made me want something different for him through consistent and repeated canon blatant hints at something else. Same as Cas, I was totally ready in season 4 to just like him as a cool character and for him to bog off back to Heaven after being useful but he was captivating as an ally and it grew from there. For ages I would totally have put to one side the hints at a romantic part of his story and loved for him to become the third brother, it’s the show that made me see more between him and Dean, I never would have imagined that myself, I was a boring heterormative adult more interested in the individual characters’ stories than shipping, I thought shipping was just maritime transferral of goods before I was like wtf and googled Destiel after 10x05 cos I’d finally found a name for what I’d been seeing evolve for 6 years.

Sam goes for Cas’ own individual arc and what he wants. I never had a clue what I wanted from him until the show told me what I should want by repeating something clearly over 10 years. If they suddenly change any part of the story then they change it (and I’ll be annoyed they changed something so entrenched but I’m not going to bitch @ tptb for it or whatever, it’s their choice, they’re the creator and once it’s changed I’ll meta that) but so far it’s been the same, clear story to me for 10 years.

An interpretation is an interpretation but it’s when you start, as I do and some others do, saying you believe this one is the authors intention that you have to be more careful about backing it up with canon and logic and not getting #triggered when someone disagrees.

If you’re going to pitch it as what you believe the author intent is then you have to leave your personal projections at the door and work solely based on the canon, the production, what the author may have said outside of canon etc. It has nothing to do with your own wants for the character or show.

It also means when someone has valid canon supported arguments to the contrary you can have a really interesting discussion and I love that.

#meta writing #meta discussions #meta #what gets problematic is when ppl cant see past their interpretation or attribute it to the author based on nothing concrete and wildly #speculate or bash other interpretations based on actual analysis of canon #i know i look like im aggressive but 99.99% of the time im hitting back at #ppl being dicks #because no #ill scroll by to a point but start tagging tptb on twitter or using main tags here for unfounded wank #or screenshotting my meta to take it out of context to start your own wank #is just bullshit behaviour and i have zero tolerance for it #human!cas

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thedogsled · 6 years

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Hi anonymous gencest person in my inbox! First of all, I wanted to reply to you thoroughly, I just happened to not be online at the time that you sent your first message, and as a result it’s taken a little time to write this reply. You seem to be really hurt by this, but the tone of your message is understanding and kind, and you deserve to be spoken to with the same respect that you did in your messages to me. I’ve put your message under the cut to protect you a little bit (I hope that you find it).

For the folks on my dash, please don’t think this is me jumping back into it. Mostly that’s because, as you mentioned in your message, I feel like everything has gotten very out of hand. The tone of the original conversation changed underneath me, because while my issues were only with tagging, I feel like some people perceived it to be something else. I’d like to clear that up. Ad hominem attacks are always unnecessary, and they derail reasonable conversation. I also think that a lot of this jumped off the back of already raised tensions and preconceptions, and the divisions in fandom are wholly responsible for that. So that’s mostly why I haven’t mentioned it on my blog since the scuffle happened, and why I’m happier putting the rest of this under a cut. I don’t agree with what this turned into (kink shaming, and making genfic people into some sort of commodity to be shot across the battlefield like human cannons), and it’s left a bad taste in my mouth how the whole thing was handled, much as it seems to have done with anonymous.

This post is about that.

Anonymous said:The gencest wank is reaching new levels. Now people on twitter are claiming that participants "support child abuse" (which child?) and are "grooming" other people. There is disagreeing with the ambiguity the term gencest imply and there is straight up calling content creators who just want to write on their favorite characters predators. Now I feel even worse about writing Winchester Gen fic and I'm not even a participant! Are yall even going to care about that?

Anonymous said:(same g*ncest wank anon) Look, nevermind. I dont really expect anything. I was hurt by both sides when I'm at a low point and just wanted to write some S&D gen fic to cheer me up. I came to vent but it wasn't called for. I'm sorry. Have a nice day.

I’m going to start right back at the beginning. This wank started on Twitter, and it’s still continuing over there. I think a lot of the reason why things are never let go of on Twitter is because the format has a toppling effect. With things only loosely dated, and Twitter sending you notifications for things you might have been interested in, it tends to keep fires burning a lot longer. The viciousness of the conversations is one of the reasons why I’m not a very big presence of Twitter myself, not to mention block and let block isn’t considered to be a social default. People just engage with material no matter the consequences, forgetting that other people on the internet are living breathing emoting human beings.

Part of it, too, is Supernatural fandom’s divisions in general. If you look just at the wank that crossed my dash just in the last week - one week! - there’s the gencest wank, wank from old meta writers about new meta writers, wank at people who wish Cas had been in this episode, wank about Danneel--it never ends. And instead of those wanks being considered as separate incidents, they instead build one on top of another, so people come into conversations with a lot of baggage, which they aim at each other in quickfire succession.

It’s not okay. That’s part of the reason why I try and avoid engaging in ‘antis do this, antis do that’ drama, fandom dividing into sides etc. because it’s draining, it’s tiring, and it stops you from doing things you want to be doing. Trust me, I know all about the pain of just wanting to write/draw/reblog so and so, and feeling like you can’t because the fandom is a trash heap. Other multishippers feel the same way, like they can’t reblog content from certain bloggers because it’s only going to cause drama. I haven’t written or drawn anything but Destiel (apart from that one Sabriel fic for the RB last year) since I started this blog, despite being a multishipper at heart myself, because I don’t feel like that content is welcome or will be engaged with.

This fandom cultivates that kind of unwelcomeness, in my opinion, to almost everyone in it. It also prevents people from blogging on their own blog, because again people feel they need to seek out and engage with content (even untagged content) that they disagree with, or they’re not interested with, instead of just blocking it. I like talking about ships, and I like discussing how problematic some of them are. I like discussing dark fic. I like discussing tagging practices, and how to keep people safe from being triggered in a fandom which is full of people carrying their traumas with them. While I like engaging with the dark potential of characters, I do my best not to do so at the expense or harm of others. All of those things lead to conflict, and conflict I avoid so much I don’t end up using my blog as I want to. For example, just last year I got involved in a Megstiel conversation which ended in people saying rude things about me and wearing it as a badge of honor that I blocked them. I like Megstiel. I have RPed it and I like the potential the two characters have with each other. It’s not my OTP, and I’m not a relentless wave of positivity about it, but that’s okay. That’s my opinion, and not an opinion I should have to defend, and it’s okay to block people rather than argue needlessly and spread ill feeling around even more.

Staying out of other people’s opinions didn’t happen, this time. Blocking didn’t happen (the gencest mod did use her block later on, which I wholly support, when I was still following the drama, but the block wasn’t respected. When people log out to get around blocks, it isn’t respectful, and it’s part of what fans the drama higher). Not to mention all this drama came in at peak level because all this fandom is is Us Vs. Them until everyone is in a frenzied final battle situation during every incident. Sometimes the drama is being exacerbated and misrepresented, and there are absolutely trolls trying to stir the other thing to being much worse than it is “for fun”. Fandomwank and the anon comms on Dreamwidth (formerly LJ) and to a certain extent Reddit, love making Tumblr and Twitter fans go at each other, and even if we’re pretty shitty with each other already, that’s being driven and exacerbated constantly by forces unseen.

(Note: People may accuse me of making this up, I suppose, but we’re a powderkeg and people love to start fires. The fake Cas stan on Twitter from this summer is a GREAT example of this, they had Misha’s name in their URL and dropped shit on the writers and cast for a long time just to make people froth at the mouth “How could they say that to Jared” etc. I think people really underestimate how much rubberneckers love drama, and if there isn’t any they will happily start it. That said, a fair amount of drama starts organically, and I’ll concede as much, but if you think cackling supervillains are crazytalk let me introduce you to MS Scribe...)

Rambling about drama aside, because I’m quite passionate about how stupid this fandom gets, I want to get back to your ask. I haven’t touched your actual comments yet, and that does a disservice to them because this drama has genuinely hurt you. Fandom should know that. Their words hurt real people. The bickering hurts real people. It drives people away. It drives people I know away, and it’s hurting this anon as well. It’s like anon says: are we going to care about that? Because we should. We should be making this fandom a better place. We should be mending bridges, not distancing people and telling them their pain doesn’t matter. It matters. At least it matters to me. I want you to know that, anon.

That it matters, that’s why I got so passionate about the tagging issue. We should care for everyone’s comfort in this fandom, and that matters to me too. We shouldn’t shout names at each other. And maybe if people hadn’t been at a default level of at each other’s throats, we could have had a conversation about this. I honestly believe the gencest mod came at this from a reasonable position originally, with no ill intent. I may not have made that clear in my previous posts, but I was determined to give them the benefit of the doubt. I don’t think their definition was even that wrong, given that they weren’t trying to redefine the brodependency, imo. My issues only came from a need for fandom itself to invoke the terms Wincest and incest where necessary to protect the people who seek protection from those terms, who are harmed by it, and blacklist it. So that their blacklists work, and continue to protect them. That’s okay, I think, to ask for that, not at the exclusion of the gencest tag, but alongside it where it’s necessary. Incest isn’t what the exchange is about, as I understand it, but obviously the inclusion of ‘wincest’ in the portmanteau does make the real intent cloudy, and excludes people who might otherwise have been interested in it. You mentioned in your ask that the term was ambiguous, and that was my only issue with it, not whatever it’s gotten turned into, especially if that negativity is explicitly anti-Wincest. If the mod wants to use a term that invokes incest for her non romantic gen fest, then that’s the mod’s prerogative. Re. tagging, I think it matters, but tagging is different to the challenge. I’ve tried to be clear on the difference I feel about it since the beginning.

I think that when you are inside the bubble of a ship, it becomes difficult to see the issues with that ship. Let’s take it outside of the fandom and look at Buffy, for example. The fair and honest truth is that Spuffy is an abusive ship. It was literally abusive, then framed as love, Joss Whedon’s gross projection of being able to creepily stalk women and do whatever he wants to them because ~love~ and the woman will ultimately forgive him for being a ruthless monster and they’ll get together. (coughMarvelcough). It’s my OTP for Buffy, but it is what it is. In SPN fandom, Wincest has a similar problem, because it’s been around right since the beginning of the show, and there’s some people I feel who have forgotten that it’s an incest ship, you know, and forget that other people don’t say “It’s just incest” in real life. Only on the internet. (The response to poor Jason Fisher’s defense of Superwiki from the GA made that disconnect really clear to me. The GA literally have no idea why this show would defend incest, because how we speak about incest within fandom is wholly different to how it’s discussed in the real world.)

That said, boy oh boy. I’m about to open a whole other can of worms here.

Wincest folks get constantly attacked. Like I said, it’s an incest ship, and between the GA and people who are triggered by it and purity culture, you’ve got these people who just wanna write their ship and they’re constantly on the toe of everyone’s boot getting a right kicking. I’m not going to argue about the moral rights and wrongs of writing incest, because it’s none of anyone’s business. Writing incest isn’t a gateway drug to performing it any more than if you write stories about murder that’s what you’re setting up to do next yourself. No matter why someone writes it, generally speaking that’s between them and their catharsis. People get uppity about other people’s ships and kinks when they should stay in their own lanes, really.

Tagging is the key to that. Acknowledging your ship has issues and then making sure you tag those issues responsibly. That’s important. It protects us. It protects me when I write darkfic. It protects people who write darkfic because they’re survivors, and helps people to deal with those things when it’s tagged properly, when it’s given the name of what it is, rather than sanitized. That’s my issue with gencest as a tag (not as a fest), because it felt like sanitized incest. You need to call that what it is. You need to identify it. Your older brother climbing into bed with you naked and without permission isn’t gen. To some people within the ship, the identification of it is half the battle. When we tag considerately, we are being kind to people we don’t know, as well as protecting ourselves. Tags make fandom better and safer.

With the way things have unrolled, it’s made it so engaging in either fest seems like picking sides. That’s not okay. That’s not just this battle; this is just another casualty of the whole ship war, something which has sucked the fun out of many things people enjoy doing, and driven many many people out of fandom. I’m sorry that this one hit when you were already feeling so low, not least because we all deserve to have nice things. Fandom is supposed to be the place to go to when life is shitty, to give you fun and relief. It’s not meant to feel like getting sent back to the trenches. Not for anyone.

We need to mend our bridges. We need to keep making our content, and stop seeing it as ride or die. We need to keep our nasty opinions to our own blogs and stop calling each other names when we don’t agree. We need to stop seeing blocking as unreasonable behavior and not proper curation. We need to stop raiding ship tags for wank, or dumping our crap on other ship’s tags in the first place. We need to give more people the benefit of the doubt, and engage on conversational levels about out fandom and our ships. We need to call out issues from within our own fandom, so when drama is getting splashed around we need to say “hey, they have a bit of a point, here, maybe we can talk reasonably about it”. We need to stop shadowboxing with an enemy we think is the boogeyman, when in reality we’re punching real people in the face. We need to tag proactively, and kindly, and keep our fandom corners clean so that when people come to visit we can say “hey, we take our tagging really seriously, you can’t call us out on it.” That’s the fandom I want to be a part of.

Most of all we need to be kind to each other. Be better. For this anon and for everyone else who’s ever been hurt by fandom. Enough shittiness is enough.

To anon. I’m sorry you’re hurting. It fucking sucks, and I’m so sorry things got driven to the point they have now. I’m sorry you got stuck in the middle of it. That said, I want you to write. I want to read your content. Shippy or not, I love the relationship that Sam and Dean have, and seeing all parts of it, fluffy and dark and codependent and cute and playful and snarky. I love G rated fic as much as I love dark NC-17 fic, and I don’t care for people who gen shame, like fic isn’t interesting if it doesn’t have sex in it. Screw that noise. I hope you write. I want you to write. As part of a challenge or not. I hope you will. Everyone I’ve spoken to about this tells me they want more gen S&D content.

You, and anyone else, are welcome to send me any content you want, any time you like. I don’t reblog NC-17 content that isn’t under a cut, or content that attacks other fans, but you can send me any ship, anytime - anyone who loves any ship in this crazy fandom, regardless of what circle of affiliation you usually sit with - and I’ll share your content. With the right tags, of course! We don’t have to be this dysfunctional with each other. We can cooperate and coexist.

To anon: write it. Write it just for you. Write it to make yourself feel better, and write it to stick it in the eye of everyone who’s made you feel bad about it. When you feel powerless, doing it anyway is the power that you have, and you don’t need anyone to give it to you; it’s yours entirely.

I’m sorry this took me so long to post back to you. As you can see I wrote a little more than I initially expected to, and it took a while. If it makes you feel even a little bit better to read it, then it was worth it.

Thanks so much for your ask, for your patience, and for your respect. I hope next time you want to drop me an ask, it’s in happier times.

#dogsled replies #wank for ts #incest mention for ts #this is a multiship blog #ship and let ship #purity culture can eat my whole entire ass #but tagging is important

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