#the not-communication with nancy and even the whole family issues
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After dinner, I want you to pick out your toys for the yard sale. Two boxes' worth.
#mike wheeler#karen wheeler#ted wheeler#stranger things#stedit#strangerthingsedit#st s2#2x01#mikewheeleredit#mine#gif:st#im rewatching some stuff and realized i never giffed this whole scene which i love for multiple reasons#the toys as being mikes childhood taken away#(and later that difference between him and will and their respective views on toys d/nd and growing up)#the not-communication with nancy and even the whole family issues#the first and only mention and mike's reaction of the almost-quarry-jump in s1#and ofc the 'strike 20' whatever it means here as a metaphor and maybe foreshadowing for s5 and nat20? *eye emoji*#plus also mike 'plagiarizing an essay' which relates to everything he did in s4 where he borrowed words from different ppl and moments#byler#<kinda you know.
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Eddie's palms were sweating like crazy. There used to be moments when he was gratetul for this less obvious sign of nervousness, but at times like this it was bloody inconvenient. The chalk dust clung to his fingertips as he worked on his summoning circle under the archmage's watchful eye, an eye that was waiting for a single mistake that would warrant another disqualification. A third one in the last three years.
It was all bullshit as his best friends Nancy and Chrissy had told him. They both were younger and had the same skill. Sure, Nancy's intellect was through the roof and Chrissy studied with a rigid motivation of someone who wanted to leave their stifling family behind, but Eddie wasn't bad at all. Hell, he grasped the intricacies of magic almost naturally and in another world, he would have been praised, supported by all his peers and professors.
Yeah, right. That would be a world where he wasn't a filthy commoner.
Sure, magic didn't choose blood or status or a full set of silver cutlery in one's mouth, but oh did the upper class love to pretend. "We have magic in our bloodline," they lied through their teeth. And so when a kid of a petty thief showed magic potential surpassing the one of their coddled kids, they were aghast. They scoffed at his long unruly hair, at his cheap dark clothes, at the extra shifts his uncle had to take to keep him in the academy. They tried to get rid of him so many times, unfair test questions, discriminatory behavior, bullying...Eddie saw it all and guess what, he didn't care. As his wise uncle told him "they see you as a cockroach, boy. So become one. Show them how persistent you can be, make them wish they let you graduate."
Eddie adored his uncle, if that wasn't clear. That man was hard working and smart. If the world was worth anything, he would have been an alchemist, with his precise mind and nimble hands. But since world was shit and unfair, he was just a helper for one, although a great and kind one, Scott Clarke. Eddie was happy for his uncle, for the companionship he found in Scott, but there was inherent bitterness in him that wouldn't leave.
See, the issue with Eddie was - he had no clear goal, no illuminated path in his future. He wanted to explore magic, see what it had to offer. Where others had a clear destination, like Nancy with her passion for magical channels of communication or Chrissy and her focus on healing magic and diagnostics, Eddie was...untethered. He wanted to do anything and everything and he worried that this would be his downfall this time too. Because that's exactly what the whole summoning ritual hinged on.
Eddie wiped his hands on his pants, earning a disapproving scoff from the archmage. "Magic demands grace and dignity," that's what the asshole always said before elegantly wiping his mouth with a napkin or drying his sweaty brow with a white handkerchief. Eddie wanted to kick him in the shin and see how elegant he looked toppling over.
Just a few more chalk lines, no use in delaying the inevitable. This was the final exam of the senior year, but also a crucial skill that Eddie simply had to master. Because each mage needed a companion from the other side, that was the law. It didn't matter if you summoned a fae, a zephyr, a demon or even a wailing ghost of your grandma who decided to stay in the world beyond instead of moving on, you needed a companion to help with channeling of magic, amplifying it. Some mages kept the same companions for decades, other went through a series of brief companionships to find what they needed.
If Eddie only knew what he needed. That's what he was supposed to do - enter the circle, open a gate to the other world and project his ambitions, his desires. Which were, as usual, all over the place.
"I'm ready," he told the archmage as he stood up and dusted off his hands, creating more white smears on his pants.
The older man just rolled his eyes. He seemed to be in his fifties, with thick hair and just one or two strands of grey. But who knew, magic didn't really make aging normal. "I will believe it when I see it, Mr. Munson. You have yet to surprise me."
Eddie bit back a scorching remark and cracked his fingers, getting ready. He forced on a wide smile and waved at his friends who had, as expected, aced the exam. Nancy was chatting with her companion, a storm elemental (her name was Robin, as he would learn later, and she could speak so fast only Nancy was able to understand). Chrissy stood next to a tall dryad, Barbara, and gave Eddie a thumbs up, beaming at him. "You got this!" she mouthed at him and, with a brief whisper, made Barbara join in a very awkward cheer.
"Okay, here I go," muttered Eddie and entered the circle. His fingertips sparkled as he touched the prepared runes, activating them. He had one brief moment to take it all in, the scowl on the archmage's face, Nancy's quiet and confident smile and Chrissy's radiance, before the runes rose in a circle around him and obscured everything.
He blinked at the swirling colors around him, whispered voices. "Hello?" he called out, hearing the echo of his own voice. "My name is Eddie...um. I mean, Edward Munson and I am searching for a companion."
The voices sounded closer, but not close enough. He hadn't offered anything yet, so he wasn't too discouraged. "Um. I am looking for someone who would like to explore the world of magic with me. The possibilities it has and who is maybe looking to find themselves too..."
His voice trailed off. He sounded silly even to himself, not to mention to the creatures, spirits and demons in the realm. But just as he was about to quickly make up a goal, just to attract someone, he heard whispering in his ear. It sounded both melodic and dissonant, single and split. "You're intriguing. Intriguing enough to consider your offer. Say, Eddie. You seem open to everything, but...is there something that you really, really want? A desire you have? Something a companion could help you accomplish?"
Had Eddie been someone with a milder temperament, he would have explained how he hoped his success would open the door for more people like him, to change how elitist magic was. But he wasn't that, he was Eddie and he didn't feel like starting his first companionship with a lie.
"I want to succeed so much that the archmage will lose all of that fucking powdered hair," he grinned into the swirling void. "I want him to look at me, the first trash commoner mage, and know that despite being way more powerful and influential and whatever else, he couldn't get that scrawny kid to quit, no matter how many times he unfairly failed me. I want to make him feel like he's sucking on a lemon whenever he sees me. I want to become a living proof that he was wrong."
There was laughter in his ears and this time he realized - it wasn't one voice but two. One seductive and feminine, the other amused and slightly bitchy, belonging to a man.
"Well, Eddie," whispered the woman and Eddie shivered from her warm breath.
The man leaned in too, into his other ear. "We can help you with that."
And just like that, the magical void dissolved and two warm hands found their way into his.
Eddie emerged into the great hall to a series of gasps, cheers and curses. Chrissy was jumping up and down on her toes, clapping. Nancy seemed to be stuck between shock and serious amusement. And the archmage...well. That was something else.
But Eddie had manners so instead of reacting to any of them, he turned towads his companions. Two beings at once wasn't exactly common and Eddie had to understand who exactly he invited into his life.
He didn't have to recall much of his lectures on the other world to realize that his companions were demons. And not just any type, no. He gulped as he offered his hand again. "Thank you for answering my call. As I said before, I'm Eddie. Human, obviously."
The female demon was almost as tall as him, but unlike him she was gorgeous. Her thick brown hair fell to her strong shoulders in gentle waves and her amber eyes sparkled with mischief. She had moles and beauty marks all over her beautiful face. "Pleasure to join you, Eddie. Stevie, a succubus." She winked at him and shook his hand. "Obviously," she whispered.
She nudged him to the male demon, eerily similar to her, but where she was seductive he was snarky. Which...was doing equal things to Eddie's insides. Not only. "Steve," he said and squeezed his hand with a deliciously calloused hand. "Not a succubus, obviously, but an incubus. Pleasure indeed."
Eddie felt a bit manic. The wide smile on his face was starting to hurt but he couldn't bring himself to care and when Stevie used her tail to examine the chains on his belt, he wondered if the butterflies in his stomach weren't actually a stomach infection. "Uh...sorry if that's a stupid question, but are you...are you twins?"
He expected a scoff or a simple yes, but the look that Stevie and Steve exchanged wasn't clear at all. He wondered if he might have offended them, but Steve ended up throwing his arm around Eddie's shoulders and pulled him close. Yep, definitely a stomach bug because the butterflies were off the charts. "That's a bit complicated. We'll explain in a bit, but now..." The bitchy smirk on Steve's face was everything and as he whispered into Eddie's ear, Eddie couldn't help but snort. This was pure gold.
Standing between his companions and wrapping each arm around their waists, Eddie smiled at the archmage, pale and looking like he was ready to vomit all over his summoning circle.
"So, archmage Harrington," drawled Eddie and Stevie snickered next to him, "have I finally managed to surprise you?"
As Steve and Stevie raised their hands and, in a single voice, said sweetly "hi dad!", Eddie felt like his goal of giving the old pompous fart a heart attack was just within reach.
#steddie#steddie au#steve harrington#stevie harrington#eddie munson#magical au#steddie drabble#nancy wheeler#barb holland#robin buckley#chrissy cunningham#yeaaah I don't have anything in my defense
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The Pause
I am going to introduce you to this dynamic, that I would very much like you to consider: The Pause.
Karen taught Nancy about The Pause when she was ten because she suspected Nancy was going through a hard time at school. The Pause was half a little game, half a trust promise. The rules were simple: The Pause would start when they lifted both feet from the ground. When they did that, Karen explained, time stopped for them to take out of their chests whatever was bugging them, and as long as the game was going on, they could say anything (even swearing!) to feel better, and after The Pause finished (when their feet were on the ground again), whatever they said during that time will not ever be approached again. No judgment, no hard felings. Just release.
Nancy had The Pause present during all her life, because speaking her mind wasn't always easy. She would learn soon enough that speaking up wasn't the hard part; getting heard was.
Anyway, she found herself spreading The Pause. She used it with Mike once or twice. During those moments, Nancy recalled, it was when they got along better. Sad thing they never talked about it later.
Mike had taught The Pause to Lucas, who eventually, taught it to Max in an attempt to talk to her when she was at her worst.
Nancy used it with Steve after their first encounter with the demogorgon, and it was, by far, the one who was most affected by The Pause. She had been at Steve's a few times by then. She knew he didn't have anyone to talk to about his feelings, or what he had gone through, so she taught him The Pause.
That was when Steve fell in love with her.
Then she taught The Pause to Jonathan in Murray's place, and that's when they both learned about their true feelings.
Later on, he would use The Pause with Will, who, a few years later, taught it to El.
Steve taught The Pause to several people, though. The first time he used it, it was before the Snow Ball. He wasn't expecting Claudia mentioning his dad, and everything went downhill from that. They sat in the bed before doing his hair, and they talked about shitty dads, and unrequited crushes with the same girl.
That was the second time Steve fell in love using The Pause.
The next summer, in camp, right before confessing to Suzie, Dustin used The Pause, which gave him strength to do so. Suzie found it cute enough to actually give him his first kiss.
When they first started working in Family Video, Steve learned that maybe Nancy's legacy was the best thing he got from her. He sat on the counter a lazy day and told Robin about The Pause when he saw her weirded than normal, and she obliged and told about her identity issues. She also mentioned that the weirdest thing about that is the fact that she was starting to believe that Steve Harrington was his platonic soulmate, and she was afraid to tell him because he might break her heart if he didn't feel the same.
That was the third time.
Steve taught The Pause once more, to Eddie. They sat on his kitchen countertop, and there was a whole space between them, when Eddie told that he couldn't believe that he actually was ready to die, and he didn't know what to do with that now that he didn't. Eddie told him that he was scared that he'd gave up his place in the world, and now the world wouldn't give his spot back. Eddie told him that he was as afraid to leave as he was to stay in Hawkins, because he was starting to believe that he was falling in love with this hot jackass that was making him using a communication system that implied that they were not going to talk about it anymore in the future.
Steve broke The Pause to walk the space between them and kiss him, because those feelings were not meant to be approached just once in theit life. He needed them to be real, so he could say Steve that he loved him for the rest of his life.
That was the fourth, and the last time he fell in love using The Pause.
Funny thing is, The Pause was now a secret dynamic that everyone in the group knew, but Nancy wasn't aware by that, until The Pause came back to her.
And it came from Robin.
Robin taught Nancy The Pause when they run accidentally into each other a random night in a park, in late 1986. Robin knew something was wrong with her, so she took her to the swings and asked her to lift her feet from the ground. Then, Robin explained Nancy The Pause rules, who listened attentively, not fully believing what was happening. She considered to come clean and tell Robin that she knew about The Pause, that her mom taught her when she was a kid, but she left that unsaid. Instead, Nancy talked about how she felt that her relationship with Jonathan was going nowhere, and she was afraid that they were making each other miserable. She also told Robin about that she might have developed feelings towards another person. Towards a girl. Robin told her that she liked girls, too. Nancy told Robin that she was scared about that part of herself. Robin said that she got it, but it wasn't that scary once you surrounded yourself with the right people.
They held hands there.
That was the first time Nancy fell in love using The Pause.
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I thought I was done being disappointed in stranger things. Falling out of love with a hyperfixation that brought me so much joy already sucked, but the whole Noah Shnapp shit really ruined it for me. I wasn't planning on watching or supporting season 5 anyways, but finding out Argyle won't be in s5 has really stripped away any want still buried deep in my brain man, like I'm not even slightly interested in watching illegally now. (I wasn't planning on it but curiosity is strong sometimes)
Jonathan was my favorite character, and Argyle is SO important for his character. Like putting aside how important Argyle was to the plot of s4, his importance to Jonathan was reason enough for him being there since Jonathan NEEDED him.
Argyle was the ONLY relationship he had that didn't have expectations. He could be free and loose and himself around Argyle. This isn't hate towards Will or Joyce or Nancy because he loves them and the story likes to ignore it but those relationships all come with expectations that the story has hinted at being hard for Jonathan to manage.
He loves his brother and his mom but the role he was forced into so young has really damaged him and how he views himself. The expectation to be a fatherly figure, an authority figure, a protector. I know Jonathan doesn't mind doing it because he loves his family but it's a lot of pressure and if s4 told us anything (again, even if the story likes to gloss over it for some reason) that pressure was too much for him.
And I LOVE Jancy, I love Nancy, but again s4 told us directly that in some way he feels a lot of pressure with her. He feels the need to give up on his dreams in one way or another, because it's either he goes to college with Nancy doing something he doesn't exactly wanna do, or he doesn't and he loses his girlfriend. He fears communication with her because she might get upset, at the end of s4 you can see that while he trusts Nancy and doesn't think anything is going on with Steve because he also trusts Steve, we can't deny the writers might do some lame ass love triangle bullshit this next season which will put even more pressure on Jonathan because now he might lose his girlfriend to his previous bully 🧍♀️
Argyle was SO healthy for Jonathan's character! He helped get Jonathan out of his comfort zone in some ways, in all 4 seasons with Argyle Jonathan was the most free and silly and acted like a teenager! He could just be a teenager with Argyle. He wasn't a supportive big brother or boyfriend or oldest son or any of the stigmatizations from his home town with Argyle, he was just Jonathan. Instead of worrying about taking care of Will, or getting a job to help pay bills or (at the time) fighting monsters, he was playing golf in the middle of a car dump with his best friend, getting high in their pizza van and having fun. I dunno, I just think it's a shame we're taking away his only friend that he isn't dating or related to.
I also fear that the did it for a reason of pushing the love triangle because let's be real if Argyle was there Jancy would just communicate. Argyle wouldn't stand for them dancing around each other and Steve being an issue he'd be like 'talk it out 👏🏼👏🏼'
Again this isn't even MENTIONING how important he is to the plot of s4 in general? Some people say he was just the comic relief and while he definitely played that role, he also is the reason half the main cast are alive?? Without Argyle; will, Mike and Jonathan would be dead! They would have no escape from the government SHOOTING THEIR HOUSE AND TRYING TO KILL THEM. they would have no transportation to find El, they'd have never even found El! They'd never have found a place to make a bathtub so El could save max, they'd never have made it back to Hawkins! He is an important character not just to Jonathan (because while I adore their friendship and this post may make it seem that way) HE IS NOT AN ACCESSORY TO JONATHAN! He was a fun character, a relavent character!
They could have done so much with him, imagine how he could have interacted with other characters? Character pair ups that could have been awesome? Steve and Argyle would be SO FUNNY! Argyle and Dustin, Argyle and Lucas bonding over neither being fucking white, Argyle and Robin being a comedy duo, Argyle and fucking Nancy having a conversation as Jonathan best friend and girlfriend respectively, or Argyle finally just meeting the girl he's heard about for a year- i dunno the possibilities are endless and the duffers are lame for not doing ANYTHING with the potential of these characters.
Oh well, I lost respect for Stranger Things a while ago, but a part of me is still passionate about the story being told and it really is a shame for Jonathan's character. But I shouldn't be surprised the writers have always kind of hated Jonathan. Those stonathan moments better be great I guess, I dunno I won't be watching it 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
#argyle stranger things#stranger things thoughts#anti stranger things#support palestine#boycott stranger things#jonathan byers#stranger things season 5
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Jonathan and Joyce
I think one relationship that has been utterly ignored by the show since season one is the one between Jonathan and his mother. I’m struggling to think of a single scene with any kind of heft behind it that they’ve shared since that first season. And that’s a damned shame because there was SO much drama to be mined from what that first season sets up. Instead in the three seasons since, they hardly interact and get defined by their love lives.
I should add before I start that this isn’t a criticism of Joyce. As someone who was raised at times by a single mother, it’s an impossible situation to be in. It’s not her fault. But that doesn’t negate (sadly) the real damage done to her kids, Jonathan in particular.
Season one sets up that Joyce is a hard working single mother that also has had a tough time of it emotionally. In many ways Jonathan is the rock that the Byers family prior to season one is built upon. Joyce, we are told. has “anxiety issues” and Jonathan is seen both trying to help her through those issues “you need to eat” and also to push her through “this is not a good time for you to shut down”. Which is notable since it shows he’s had to deal with this in the past. He’s 15/16 in season one. So on top of all his responsibilities to Will and the house as a whole, he’s seemingly got some emotional caretaker responsibilities to his overwhelmed mother.
In one of those early episodes, Karen Wheeler asks Joyce how Jonathan is doing. And she responds, “he’s ALWAYS been good at taking care of himself”. Which is about as sad a line as any Stranger Things character has uttered. Joyce is all but admitting in this scene that Jonathan has been on his own for a long time, emotionally, and that he’s learned to cope with it. Again, he’s 15/16 in season one It’s also something that, while she believes it, is also wildly untrue. Jonathan is pretty fucking far from okay.
And that’s before we get into the Lonnie of it all. Adding abuse to Jonathan’s parentification is something that makes the situation darker and even more complex. I don’t think it’s a bridge too far to say that Lonnie emotionally abused Joyce, Jonathan and Will. I think that’s pretty much canon. As is his physical abuse of Jonathan. Did he physically abuse Will or Joyce? I’m less certain of that. I can see either way.
But Jonathan was physically abused by Lonnie. Joyce either knew and did nothing about it (which doesn’t really jibe with what we know of Joyce) or she never knew about it. And given she was working all the time and the scene where Lonnie tells Jonathan to keep quiet for Joyce’s sake, this seems like the logical answer. But either way, Jonathan was physically abused by his father and Joyce wasn’t there to protect him from it. Add into it that the show intentionally parallels the Demogorgon/Mind Flayer and Lonnie multiple times and we see over seasons 1 and 2 just how far Joyce is willing to go for Will but seemingly didn’t go for Jonathan when he was a kid. Is that fair to Joyce? Absolutely not. But it’s there.
In season two Joyce is in a relationship with Bob, one of the nicest guys in the show. Jonathan is, as Bob says to Joyce, “a tough nut to crack.” Lonnie has given him major trust issues. Does Joyce talk to Jonathan about it? Nope. And Bob is killed before they can get into it.
At this point, all I can pretty much hope for is one scene where Joyce (and maybe Will) acknowledges what Jonathan sacrificed for his family. And then tells him to live for himself, to follow his dreams. Be that Emerson with Nancy or NYU by himself or even community college in California.
Do I think the show gives us even that? I hope so, but remain skeptical. My guess is that lots of season 5 for Jonathan Byers involves a love triangle that no one really wants.
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I would never actually write this because (a) it’s such a bummer in every direction and (b) I think it would be misunderstood in so many ways, but let’s say:
Both Jonathan and Steve get into actual legal trouble for their worst S1 actions. Crucially, neither gets in trouble for the parts of their actions that were harmful to Nancy; Jonathan gets arrested for trespassing because the Harringtons press charges, and Steve and his friends are arrested for vandalism because the movie theater owner pressed charges. Neither event is particularly desired by Nancy; she is/was angry and hurt at both of them, but it’s clear that the law isn’t really there to help her. Her parents aren’t on board, either (Karen mostly out of concern for Nancy, Ted because the whole thing makes him too uncomfortable).
Because Jonathan is poor and unconnected and doesn’t have people who are informed about the law, he’s railroaded into a plea bargain. Nothing over-the-top or anachronistic; more in the way of juvenile hall. Because Steve is rich with well-connected, educated parents and a star athlete to boot, he gets off scot-free (except that his parents are mad at him because they had to pay off the theater owner so he can’t drive the BMW for a month).
Juvie doesn’t teach Jonathan that his actions were wrong any more than he learned just from seeing any other person’s reactions to the photos, because that’s not the point of the carceral system. It’s just another traumatic experience in the life of an already traumatized teenager. Nobody cares about the underlying issues (either the garden-variety sexist entitlement or the psychological effects of isolation and neglect) so nothing is addressed. His sentence also puts a financial strain on Joyce and Will, but the community tacitly approves because the family is disposable and she’s partly to blame for being a bad mother.
Steve, meanwhile, is confirmed in his belief that he was justified in the graffiti, or at least that it was Nancy’s fault for cheating on him and Tommy’s fault for coming up with the plan. All his better instincts are buried under tacit public approval. At school, he has the best reputation of anyone involved. Tommy is regarded as the heavy, Carol is a spiteful bitch, Nicole is a forgettable wannabe who’s dropped from the gang before the legal troubles are even fully resolved, Jonathan is a delinquent pervert, and Nancy is a slut who got everything that was coming to her (including, retroactively, the photos). But Steve is above it all.
Nancy ends up being villainized more than anyone, because public sympathy is with Steve and Jonathan is absent (plus he didn’t have much of a reputation to lose). Even people who are nominally on her side kind of blame her for being foolish or sleeping with anyone in the first place. Meanwhile, Barb is still missing/dead, and she’s totally alone in dealing with that. I think that ultimately she has to go stay with relatives in another town or go to boarding school.
I don’t think Jonathan ever comes back to Hawkins, either. After his release, he lives with Lonnie and finishes high school in Indianapolis. He figures it’ll be easier for Joyce and Will, while Joyce (who was angry with him, but only up to a point) figures it’ll be easier for him. They never really talk about it, though.
Steve gets a new girlfriend. She knows she’s lucky. She also knows to watch her step.
#discussion of realistic-ish 1980s#legal and social consequences for Jonathan’s and Steve’s worst s1 actions#I disapprove of everything I’m describing#and am bumming myself out majorly#I’m also not sure about the timeline especially as it intersects with the ud stuff
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Thoughts on the Steve-Nancy-Jonathan love triangle of season 4
There are two main problems, in my view, with the way the love triangle is set up. The first is this:
Jonathan should have told Nancy the truth, and he should have done it right off the bat, either at the start of the season or even shortly before it.
The thing is, the root conflict between Jonathan and Nancy makes sense. Nancy wants to go to a different college than Jonathan does, one too far away from his family for him to be able to support them the way he wants to. It makes sense he doesn’t want to follow her to Emerson, and it makes sense he doesn’t want her to follow him to his preferred college by giving up on her own dreams either. But Nancy would understand the weight of this as well—she cares about her education and her future.
If Jonathan tells Nancy his reservations, maybe Nancy’s immediate response is, fine, I’ll come with you instead, but on the strength of both her own and Jonathan’s wish for her to follow her own path in life, I think they could both spend season 4 just… thinking. They have by now spent over half a year in a long distance relationship—are they prepared to continue like this through all those years of college? What about after? Who knows what the situation might look like by then, what new concerns might keep them apart? How much of their lives are they willing to dedicate to uncertainty and distance?
We saw in season 3 that their relationship, while rooted in love and respect, is hardly some perfect cloudless fantasy life. Now, building on this, let’s ask the next question: how much are they willing to sacrifice to keep it?
This would give Nancy something real to think through over the course of the season about her relationship with Jonathan and what she’s willing to give up for it. It’s something that requires looking within herself and drawing a conclusion—rather than just being left in the dark to be kind of annoyed and unsure of where she stands with him. As for Jonathan, it avoids making him the cause of the problem, and gives one of the few things he’s got going on this season more weight than a simple lack-of-communication plot.
The likeliest reasons I can think of as to why the showrunners didn’t go this path to begin with would be either 1) because they didn’t think the “separate colleges” problem would be big enough to matter if Jonathan actually said anything about it, in which case Jonathan just looks stupid, or 2) because if this is what breaks Nancy and Jonathan apart, then it wasn’t really an issue of incompatibility between them but just life getting in the way, which could in turn make an endgame Nancy/Steve pairing feel like just a consolation prize to Nancy when she couldn’t be with the guy she really wanted.
I can understand the second one, but I don’t agree with it. People aren’t made for one specific other person; they find someone out of many possible someones and then build a life with them.
Nancy chose Jonathan over Steve once before, that’s true—but they are all three different people now, particularly Steve, and isn’t that the whole thing making her reconsider her relationship with him to begin with? I don’t think you need to demonstrate that Nancy and Jonathan could never have worked out under any circumstances in order to allow Nancy to have an equally worthy, or better, relationship with Steve.
This is not to say that Jonathan and Nancy can’t come out of this still together; in fact, I think this version of events will make an eventual reconciliation all the stronger. If, at the end of the day, they find that yes, they are willing to do what it takes to stay together, whether that means giving up on their individual plans for the future or accepting years of staying in a long-distance relationship or something other than that again, it would feel like their relationship has survived a real trial-by-fire and come out stronger for it. It would, when all is said and done at the end of the final season, give the season 4 strain in their relationship purpose, as it would lead to a real affirmation of the strength of their commitment to one another. But as it stands in canon—assuming Nancy and Jonathan remain together in the end, won’t this little detour of theirs feel kind of weird? What does it provide their relationship that their disagreement in season 3 did not?
In season 4 as it is, Nancy lacks agency, and Jonathan is unreliable. The whole situation feels insubstantial, made up as an excuse for more relationship drama. But it didn’t need to be that way.
There is real weight to Jonathan’s dilemma. Instead of making this another flimsy story about lack of communication breaking a relationship apart—just take the issue at hand seriously.
The second main problem is that Steve and Nancy should have spent the season becoming friends more than anything.
The thing about Steve and Nancy’s dynamic is that it has always been defined by romance. We meet them when they’re already pretty much together, and it’s clear there was no real “just friends” period before that point—just a steadily building flirtation. When they break up in season 2, that also marks the end of their interactions altogether, except for a line or two taking place in a larger group dynamic at the end of season 3. Then season 4 puts them together again and they immediately return to flirting.
The problem here is that their relationship lacks a real sense of foundation. What lies beneath the romance, the dating aspect? I don’t know. I’m not sure they do either. In their time together, they have always adhered to it—and Nancy in particular spent season 2 seeming to be mostly going through the motions of it more than anything. What do they look like together without the societal framework of a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship to fall back on?
Additionally, Nancy and Steve have some real unresolved issues to work through. The show seems to have mostly decided the problem was just that Steve had a lot of growing left to do back when they were dating and leaves it at that, but the reality of their time together and how it impacted both of them could easily be delved into more deeply than that. Talking about it—offering each their perspectives, both what they thought then and how those thoughts have changed by now—would be a compelling way to show the two characters feeling their way back to something like solid ground with one another after so long adrift.
This—hashing out what went wrong in their old relationship—would be happening simultaneously as Nancy is contemplating her current one with Jonathan, pushing her to consider the two in relation to one another. Any hints of Nancy and Steve’s relationship blossoming back up come near the end of the season, when they’ve had time to settle back into being on good terms with each other, and it feels like something they unearth or build anew rather than them just kind of picking back up where they left off.
This also has the benefit of giving them more to do—more of a chance to grow, or to show how they’ve grown—than either of them really had this season otherwise.
Steve holds no speech about how it has “always been you”; he truly moved on in season 3, like he said, even if season 4 sees old feelings coming back to him. They might still talk about whether they might have made it as a couple as the people they are now, and this may or may not take the form of a confession. Eddie doesn’t make any claims about unambiguous signs of true love on Nancy’s part. Possibly nothing is ever stated explicitly—to avoid forcing the issue to come to a point, instead allowing them to potentially sink back into friendship at the end of the day—but there is a sense that an old door, or perhaps just a window, has been reopened.
Narratively, this will strengthen any potential endgame Nancy/Steve relationship, because it will give their difficulties in season 2 and time apart in season 3 greater impact. Their breakup mattered, and it defines their relationship even now, as they struggle to work through it. Their time apart mattered, and it changed how they feel about one another and the places from which they approach each other. It will also narratively strengthen an endgame where they don’t end up together, because their friendship will remain regardless now that it’s no longer dependent upon romance to exist; no matter what happens in the end, an important relationship was repaired and remains repaired, so the time spent developing it won’t feel wasted even if no romance ultimately comes of it.
Comparing canon—what are we left with if Nancy and Steve don’t end up together? What would be the point of it all? Steve-and-Nancy live and die by their romance, and so does the strength of their season 4 screentime together.
In this new version of the story, things don’t look too dissimilar to canon by the end of the season. Like before, Nancy has come to view Steve in a new light. Like before, Jonathan and Nancy still haven’t worked out their problems. Like before, all their relationships face an uncertain future. The destination remains the same; it’s only that the path there has been slightly altered.
#Stranger Things#Nancy Wheeler#Jonathan Byers#Steve Harrington#Stranger Things analysis#To be clear I really didn’t need the love triangle coming back#I’m hoping they do something clever with it next season but even just conceptually I’m not really a fan#However since they did write it back in I wish they’d at least not gone about it the way they did#So in this post I’m not actually arguing for my ideal version of the story but rather trying to work within the general framework of canon#To create something with hopefully a bit more weight to it regardless of how things turn out in the end#Anyway feel free to disagree#If you liked the canon version I’m happy for you!
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Ok, so I finally got myself to actually watch season 4 of Nancy Drew and like, How was that supposed to be a satisfactory ending? It was terrible on so so many levels. Like I hate to be a hater but the character destruction was so complete. My poor characters were absolutely butchered this season.
Nancy: is losing her whole family again and stuck with the sins of the Hudsons eternally. She is going to chase down sin eaters? Why is that a good ending for her? Her whole thing was about staying in Horeshoe Bay and growing where she was planted.
Bess: She lost her home over and over and to have her home actually burnt down before her eyes is horrific. She has been completely abandoned by all she loves. Her abandonment issues will
George: A high stress job of a lawyer? I come from a family of lawyers I can tell you how terrible that is and how little time is for family. I hated how the girls were pushed to the side and left once again in the hands of their mother.
Ace: Honestly him doing Pre-Med is the only thing that makes some sense given his season 3 finale and the course of season 4.
Nick: Oh Nick. What have they done to you? Just up and moving again. What happened to your dream of helping the kids? Building a community? Advocating for real change in your society.
I love Jade's character but I miss Ned/George so so much. The fact that they dragged out Nace until the very end and don't even give them a satisfying ending is awful. The only endgame relationship I approve of is Addy & Bess but they got like 0 screen time all season.
TLDR: So... yeah, there is going to be a season re-write in the future. Post of what I liked in season 4 coming soon. Evie Out ✌️
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I HATE how Stranger Things season 4 made the conflict between Nancy and Jonathan dishonesty and a love triangle and not a continuation of their more complex conversation/argument in season 3 that was just settled with a simple sorry from Jonathan and nothing from Nancy since she got a pep-talk from her mom instead.
Season 3 spends so much time emphasizing how this small town is dying due to the mall coming in. We’re shown shops closed down and people protesting out in front of the mayors office after losing their jobs. All of Joyce and Hoppers earlier scenes together show us the store she works at is struggling to get by, the sale signs and discount pricing just to get people to come into the store. It’s emphasized again that the Byers/Joyce are struggling later when Hopper reveals Joyce is going to sell the house. It’s implied she’s doing that to escape the history they’ve experienced there (should’ve been a thought after season 1 happened...), but it can also be implied through these other elements that if her store closes down too she’ll be out of work, how will she support her family with no job?
That’s where elements of Jonathan’s story through the season picks up. Because he lands that newspaper internship along with Nancy, taking pictures for the paper. He’s mostly shown in the developing room, alone and just doing his own thing until Nancy comes in and tells him to come along.
Jonathan got a lot of flack from this season because the older men who work at this place are assholes, they’re sexist and awful and look down on Nancy ‘cause she’s a woman and an intern, not a reporter. She hates it but also not enough to quit because she wants to prove herself, and even after she’s told to let it go she doesn’t care even if it leads to getting fired because she’ll just move on to the next thing. She states all this to Jonathan who wants to support Nancy (hence why he goes with her every time) but is also cautious because he doesn’t want to get fired, losing his job while in the background his mom’s work is crumbling would be hard for their family (Jonathan wanting to help out financially is how season 1 started...)
Their entire argument boiled down to the fact that Nancy didn’t feel fully supported or trusted in her intuition that ended up being correct, while Jonathan felt Nancy didn’t consider him in regards to losing work, and therefore money, and how that effects both of them differently. Because Nancy ended up right it was Jonathan who apologized and the matter was over by the end of the season, but Nancy went on to have a whole conversation with her mom where she literally starts it with “maybe he has a point” because he DID have a point. But at no point in the rest of the series do we see them even talk about that argument from either side. But it was actually one worth diving into more?
Because fundamentally that’s at the heart of the issue for Jonathan at the start of season 4. No idea what happened to Jonathan’s dream to go to NYU but based on what we’re give Jonathan and Nancy originally wanted to go to the same school, but it’s the school Nancy wanted to go to, but Jonathan ended up applying for other options, specifically the local CC. Why the local CC? For starters it keeps him close to his family, and secondly community college is cheaper. Do we even think for a second the Byers have any savings for Jonathan to go to college? Do we think he worked long enough at any of his past jobs to earn enough for college? Do we think Joyce makes enough money currently to afford to help him go to college? I think the answer to all of these questions is no. At this point he’d have to get a scholarship to even attend. Did he get one to the college him and Nancy applied to? To any other college? We don’t have that information.
I think the only thinking that was skewed was this idea that if he told her this truth, that he can’t or doesn’t want to attend the school she chose, she would want to attend CC with him and “throw away her dreams” but since they haven’t even talked he doesn’t know what she actually would choose to do. It’s obvious long distance is hard, hell that’s true for real life couples, but college is only 4 years, it’s a matter of whether or not they would make it work, or make different choices. They don’t necessarily have to go to the same school, it’s just better for their relationship, and they don’t necessarily have to break up if they choose different schools, they just have to be willing to work out the details of communication and making time for the other when they can.
But it really boils down to two major things;
1: Jonathan is always going to prioritize his family, the last thing he wants is to abandon his mom and brother (and now sister too) and be a fuck up like his dad. Thanks childhood trauma! And
2. Finances/money/class. The Byers are poor, hell they’re still poor even in s4, Owens gave them that house to protect El, all of the money Hopper had was for El that was put into savings, Joyce went from a single mom of 2 to a single mom of 3! El literally wears clothes she gets from Joyce and Will, and we’ve seen that Joyce even wears clothes Jonathan has worn, so basically they’re a family of hand-me-downs. That has been showcased through all 4 seasons. We see Jonathan needs rides from Argyle ‘cause his car broke down and they couldn’t afford to get it fixed, etc.
These are things Nancy just does not, nor can she truly understand because her family and financial upbringing and circumstances are much better. Her family is so well off her mom has been a stay-at-home mother their entire lives, they live in a two-story house, their family of 5 is well taken care of.
But that’s where I get the most annoyed because she COULD if they just let these two characters TALK to one another about literally anything for the last 2 fucking seasons. But the Duffers refuse, and by the time they might talk in season 5 it’ll be too damn late because the series is over. Robbing them of what could have been an actually interesting display of how two characters in love overcome these types of conflicts based on aspects of each of them that aren’t bad or wrong, just different. Nancy’s not bad because she’s from a wealthier more stable family just as Jonathan isn’t for being poor and from a less stable family. Nancy isn’t wrong for being ambitious, just like Jonathan isn’t wrong to want to support his family. Nancy shouldn’t have to put up with sexist bullshit or be held back, just like Jonathan shouldn’t be disrespected or devalued for prioritizing money when living through poverty.
But no, we got a season of a love triangle instead :) very good, wonderful writing :) just *chef’s kiss*
#Sab's random shit#talking about ST#I just have so much to say about them#I thought after a few weeks I'd stop talking about Stranger Things but now it's my hyperfixation of the month#I just have no idea how season 4 could be so bad for their story#especially for the Byers#like the season was terrible for them#Jonathan Byers#Nancy Wheeler#Jancy#Stranger Things#text heavy
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More Jancy/Stancy and M*leven/Byler parallels and how they relate to conformity:
Stancy and M*leven represent conformity. Steve and Nancy are both from upper middle class families. She's a good student and he's popular. On paper they are the perfect couple. They are always associated with the Wheeler parents - the people who get married and have some kids in the suburbs. The people who got married because they were supposed to not because they love each other. Which is a life Nancy has already expressed she doesn't want.
Mike and El also follow this path. Both represent the relationships everyone expects. The superhero girlfriend who needs to be educated about the world has a nerdy boyfriend. They too are expected to get married and have some kids in the suburbs and live out the Wheeler family life.
Both are superficial relationships that don't have a whole lot of depth and understanding between the characters, like the Wheeler parents. There is always an emotional disconnect between Steve and Nancy (with regard to Barb but Steve still does this to Nancy. After Henry shows Nancy the vision and she's telling the group, Steve says "he was just trying to scare you" which is honestly so condescending. Like obviously he was doing that, but that doesn't mean her fears aren't valid or that there isn't a problem to solve. It's dismissive, not supportive.)
There is also an emotional disconnect with Mike and El (with regard to every goddamn thing because these two don't know how to have a conversation). Steve dismisses Nancy's feelings in the same way Mike dismisses El's feelings (calling her ridiculous). And honestly El dismisses Mikes right back when he tries to talk to her about how he was bullied, which is difficult for him. She shuts it down and says it's not the same. There is no emotional support here from either of them. Nancy also has not been shown to be emotionally supportive of Steve at any point.
On the flip side there is Jonathan and Nancy who represent the relationship both characters want, not the one they are supposed to want. They are both from different socioeconomic statuses. This was a big deal in the 80s, so much so that there is an entire John Hughes movie (Pretty in Pink) where Molly Ringwald's character (who is poor) has to hide her relationship with her rich boyfriend because everyone in school will bully them. And the rich boyfriend is all insecure about it and doesn't want to be seen with her. Nancy obviously isn't insecure about being seen with Jonathan but she doesn't understand his point of view in season 3 when they fight about how he couldn't afford to complain about his job. It's part of what leads to him lying to her about college applications - because he doesn't think she can understand.
The thing about this is that all they have to do is have a conversation about this topic for them to both reach a better understanding of each other. They've done this before both in seasons 1 and 2. I think it will happen considering Jonathans entire character arch from the past two seasons remains unaddressed. Nancy and Jonathans relationship was built on emotional understanding and support they just aren't communicating very well right now. It's the unconventional relationship because Jonathan is the weird quiet kid and weird quiet kids don't get the cool rich girlfriend. (This is different than the nerdy boy getting a superhero girlfriend - Jonathan isn't nerdy and Nancy isn't a superhero.)
Mike and Will also are the unconventional relationship obviously because they are gay. It's the relationship they want even though they are being told they shouldn't. The nerdy boy is going to get the superhero boyfriend. They just also aren't communicating very well right now. This relationship was also built on emotional bonds and mutual support. Interestingly, Mike and Will don't seem to have the same disconnect when it comes to money that their siblings have. Their main issue stems from insecurities around their identities which leads to their miscommunication issues this season.
I think that if these storylines are written well (and I think they will be since they have been up until now) this could provide the GA with a good narrative on conformity and how it's dangerous to push relationships on people. Up until now, I can't think of any media (at least not mainstream) that is trying to push the audience into thinking that our usual societal norms need to be questioned. It will be interesting to see if people end up understanding this. I strongly suspect that a portion of the fandom (the homophobes and Steve worshippers) will not and will be pissed. But it could make a positive impact on the GA that isn't like that.
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For the otp ask thing I’m having you do all of them for steddie cause I’m doing that for you for 5e gay ppl ship you gave me
1. Who most initiates PDA?
At first, I thought Eddie, but I'm leaning more towards Steve. Eddie, while a naturally touchy person, would definitely need to take some time to get used to the casual physical affection among the party, let alone the pda that comes with a relationship. Steve would take a bit as well, cause of the whole gay thing, and they wouldn't do pda TOO much, cause they're in Hawkins Indiana in the 80s, but Steve would definitely initiate more pda because of his dating history. When they can and when they're comfortable, they're both pretty touchy.
2. Any sleep habits either had to get used to?
Well for one, they both have nightmares out the wazoo. Eddie also just,,,doesn't have a sleep schedule. Sometimes he sleeps, sometimes he doesn't, sometimes he stays up and sleeps late, yadda yadda yadda. It kind of annoys Steve, but he gets used to it eventually.
3. Jealousy issues?
I'm not 100% sure, but I really don't think so. I think Eddie might be jealous of Steve's past flings, but it passes quickly.
4. What’s a Night Out for them?
Neither of them are huge night out fans, considering the fact that the town hates Eddie, but I think once they move out of Hawkins, Eddie manages to convince Steve to go out to gay bars/clubs every once in a while.
5. What’s an evening in for them?
Definitely forcing one another to watch movies that they like. I like to think that their date nights are made up of each of them picking a movie to rent and then watching it together.
6. Double Date? Thoughts? Who?
Nancy and Robin, probably. It turns to Robin and Steve doing their thing, and once they get to know each other, Nancy and Eddie hanging out. They get along better than you'd think.
7. Do they want (have) kids?
Steve does, obviously. It takes some healing and talking, but eventually, Eddie does too. They've got their hands full until the rest of the crew graduates though.
8. Have an AU thought?
Eddie as a tattoo artist and Steve as a florist because I'm a basic bitch.
9. If they got engaged… who proposed?
They can't really get married because it's the 80's, and that really bums Steve out, so Eddie proposes and they have a little ceremony in the Byers' back yard or something.
10. How do they deal with the other’s family?
Eddie has murderous intent. Wayne and Steve watch basketball together. Wayne love Steve.
11. What is their love language?
Eddie's are gift giving and words of affirmation, Steve's are acts of service and physical touch.
12. How Are there communication skills?
In the beginning? BAD. Like, BAD. They hide their nightmares and trauma from one another, and it just builds up until it bursts like a dam. After that, they try their best to communicate better. It's a skill. They try.
13. A little personal… but… Hot and Steamy or Soft and Tender?
I'm not answering this one.
14. How did they first meet?
To me, they met in kindergarten and were friends, but went to different elementary schools and lost touch, forgetting they had met by the time canon happens. I like to think that they rediscover old yearbooks/pictures and see them both.
15. Why do they like each other?
Eddie likes Steve because he is capable of change. In his life, he's met a lot of people who dislike him just because of how he looks/sounds/acts, and Steve used to be one of them. But then he changed and grew and took in new information, which Eddie admires a lot. Steve likes Eddie because he is so steady(steddie ha) in his identity. Eddie knows who he is and is willing to defend it. He's spent so much of his time trying to fit in and be reasonable to others that he really admires Eddie, who can stand by who he is.
16. Who cooks most?
They both cook a lot. Steve learned a lot from being left alone in his house to fend for himself, and Eddie has the skill of making delicious food out of basically nothing down to an art. I think Steve likes cooking more, though.
17. Morning rituals?
Steve almost always wakes up first, and he makes coffee for the both of them. He thinks Eddie uses an ungodly amount of sugar, but he adds it anyways.
18. Evening rituals?
Neither of them sleep much, so they tend to stay up together in bed, reading, drawing, listening to movies/music, etc.
19. How are they at parties or gatherings?
With the show gang, they tend to sit together with the other kids their age (Nancy, Robin, Jonathan, etc.). But at parties with people they meet after they move away, Eddie finds his stride. Steve still tends to sit in corners, nursing a drink and talking to people here and there, but Eddie loves parties, where his personality helps him entertain people like he loves.
20. Most cuddly?
They're both touchy, but I think Eddie is touchy in a very clingy way. He's always hanging off of the people he loves, including Steve.
21. Movie Night?
It's a common date night that they show each other movies that they like. Steve has an incredibly varied movie taste from working at the video store, and Eddie has always been obsessed with sci-fi and fantasy.
22. Who is the photo bug?
I like to think that Steve takes up photography after the whole ordeal as a way of expression. He'll take pictures of anything, but Eddie is his favorite subject.
23. How well do they know each other’s favorite foods?
Steve had a physical list of everyone's favourite foods written down in a notebook with recipes attached. Eddie knows Steve's favourite food, and will make it randomly for no reason.
24. What do their texts look like?
In a modern au, I don't think that Steve would like texting a lot, but he'd be the one to make plans, so he'd have to. Eddie texts about anything and everything, just whatever he thinks of to ramble about.
25. Parenting style?
They both had shitty parents, so they have some bad habits to unlearn, but they're good parents. A bit overbearing, but good.
26. If they have kids, who named them? What would they name them?
They adopt a daughter and name her after Eddie's mom.
27. Who brings home an illegal pet?
Eddie. Do I even need to explain?
28. Who takes the longest getting ready to leave?
They're both chronically late to things that aren't super important, but Steve's hair takes a very long time.
29. Who said I Love You, first?
Steve did. He said it before he meant to while hanging up on a call. They avoided each other for almost a day before their respective best friends got them to talk to each other.
30. When did they realize they liked each other?
Eddie realizes that he maybe likes Steve more than is normal right before he makes his sacrifice (that he does NOT die during, thank you very much). Steve takes longer, realises when he thinks Eddie might be dead. He has a crisis about it.
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could you talk some more about why you think s3 and 4 are some of the worst written tw
Hoo boy there's a lot. Off the top of my head:
Bottom line their biggest problem is they completely overstuffed the show with way too many characters and locations. This is a basic problem that feeds into so many other problems like the pacing being thrown off (remember how smoothly they cut between different plotlines in s1?) and several characters (mainly Jonathan, Mike, Will) being completely sidelined.
In s3 they focused more on memes (Scoops Troop, Alexei etc) than anything else.
In s1 character moments and character development drove the whole season. Now the character moments we get is only crumbs. As for character development, Steve from s3 and on has been reduced to nothing but a walking meme, Jonathan is completely sidelined, Nancy gets some badass moments but they screw her over by tying her up in the mindnumbingly dumb love triangle writing. If they make Stancy happen in s5 they'll have completely walked back any and all character development for three characters.
Further, especially in s3 think several characters acted very out of character. Like some of the stuff Nancy said to Jonathan when they fought in the car came off as very OOC to me (the Oliver Twist dig etc). Dustin is nothing like the sweet smart boy in s1 who kept the peace and cared more about the party all being friends than anything. But most of all, I hated Hopper in s3, how mean and cruel he was to Mike, Joyce, El. Go back and watch s1, he's so much softer. Also ridiculous that he doesn't flat out believe Joyce right away in s3 after s1-2, esp since he comes around to believing Joyce easier than you think in s1. Also his letter voiceover end of s3 that was supposed to be emotional was just trash.
They can't write relationships for shit. Once a ship is canon all the writers can think to do is "let's have them fight and break up!" which is so cheap and dumb.
The spoopy Russians in s3 and that whole plot was so lame, over the top and bad. It was completely unbelievable (yes it's a show where monsters are real but that doesn't mean the human stuff doesn't have to make sense. The realistic human storylines in s1 was what made the monster stuff work so well against it), incomprehensible and just *so* hokey.
They had a full on Coke commercial in an s3 scene. Yes product placement has been part of the show since s1 but the New Coke scene was another level, completely shameless.
The Never Ending Story musical number broke the Geneva Convention and should be investigated and prosecuted as a crime against humanity.
In s3 they give so much screentime to Billy and give his racist abusive ass a sort of redemption by the end.
In s4 they waste soooooo much screentime on the incredibly one note Jason the jock character while the likes of Mike, Will, Jonathan don't get anytime at all. They're not even in ep 7 and spend the climactic fight watching from the sidelines.
The Byers move makes no sense.
They completely don't give a shit about the Byers family anymore when for me and many other viewers they were the emotional heart of s1. It all started and ended with them. In s3 Jonathan and Will are in the same plot line for a bunch of time but we don't get any Byers bros stuff even then, and at the end of the season we don't even get a family hug, Joyce just hugs Will even though Jonathan is there too (and the Duffers told Winona there "was no time" for her to hug both her sons...) In s4 Joyce abandons her kids to go off on her Hopper rescue mission. We get the Jonathan and Will talk and hug which was great (and completely shocking to all of us that they allowed for that) and a family hug at the end but like... please let Jonathan and Joyce talk at some point?
Nancy and Mike spent a lot of time in s3 in the same plot too but we didn't get any sibling bonding between them.
They straight up just abandoned Will's arc halfway through s3. In s4 they repeat the "Jancy has communication issues" which was their arc in s3, negating that s3 arc. And they refuse to complete the arc in s4 to drag the dead love triangle into s5.
The meat monster in s3 was a super lame monster and s4 revealing the big bad as Vecna aka edgelord 3000 I'm not a fan of.
The cgi looks so bad. Vecna being tossed into the UD/whatever that place is in s4e7 takes the cake.
Them retconning so much of s1 in s4 is trash writing.
The s4 scene of El being bullied at the roller rink was really bad, like completely over the top and hokey.
Overall I'm not a fan of the direction they've taken the overarching plot in, with the spoopy Russian, Vecna etc.
Them repeating the same seasonal structure year after year is so boring. Separate cold open. Checking in on all the characters going about their lives. Supernatural stuff slowly starting to happen. Everyone being split up into different plot lines. Plot lines converging towards the end. El fights the monster of the season. Aftermath epilogue. Rinse and repeat.
The human threat of the US government makes no sense anymore. Owens and his super loyal agent men being some sort of good guys for no motivation, the spoopy Russians being set up as more evil than the Good Americans, together with the Bad Americans now being some army branch it's all just... what happened to s1?
They make cheap, dumb and so easily avoided mistakes like forgetting Will's birthday, having the cops interrogating El (a minor) without a guardian present etc yes these may seem like small things but there's so many small little mistakes like these.
They don't have a script supervisor, the Duffers openly admit they don't watch the previous seasons. Which explains a lot of why later seasons don't make sense with earlier ones.
Basically I just think it's like a completely different show compared to s1, and the writing is the main cause of it. Go back and watch s1 and see how the plot develops organically, character driven, at such a nice pace, Will and Barb going missing and El being found setting everything off and then it's all driven by the characters growing and developing and they cut between all the plot lines perfectly before they all dovetail nicely at the end. Compare it to s3 and s4 and it's just like night and day.
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How to put my thoughts together...
The first thing I will say which we saw in the opening scene and then later after the call when Maya was trying to send an apology text, is that although Maya and Carina are still not on the same page, Maya doesn't nor does she want to take her anger out on Carina and is trying to get them back to good...you know except the one thing Carina says will do that.
I also agree with you and your other Anon that Station 19 has too many side projects to give 100% to any of them; jack of all trades, master of none so to speak. I wonder if the reappearance of Diane is because Vic wants to transition (like Diane did) to a firefighter therapist especially since...I mean is she okay health wise or is that something the show was like meh, we told this story long enough and dropped it?
Maya falling was not unexpected to me but I hate how the when it is convenient for the show, they ALL leave on the call and no one will be around to find her. Shouldn't someone have stayed behind and be on desk duty? It's obvious they're gonna have Jack save the day. Like he goes back to the station because he forgot something and sees they're out on a call, sees Maya's turnout on the floor, hears the treadmill going and goes upstairs to check and finds Maya. And when Maya does get better, they'd probably ask Jack for his sperm to try again for a baby because he saved Maya's life. I mean the show IS that predictable.
Onto Greys...that I sat through thinking Carina would be in more than 30 seconds or that they would bring Maya in once I saw ALL the station 19 cast in the credits.
Was it really a big deal when Lucas told the interns he was a Shepherd, no. Is he really a Shepherd, no. And by that I mean that name doesn't make him a surgical prodigy since I suspect his mom is Nancy who is an OB-GYN (which is probably why he knew Addison best) and the rest of the family are just doctors not all surgeons. Like when Meredith showed up and said she was a Grey or when everyone found out Jackson was THE Avery but no being Lucas Adams doesn't make you anything special.
Shit or get off the pot with Link and Jo, this is ridiculous now. You broke up Link and Amelia for nothing. And why are Winston and Maggie at odds, their fighting makes zero sense and is causing drama where there doesn't need to be. And all the interns hooking up with each other except for Mika and they won't bring back Helm who would be the perfect match for her.
And lastly, I just find it amusing that Harry Shum Jr. who started as just a back-up dancer on Glee with almost no lines has pretty much the biggest TV career of all the Glee alums.
I agree, Maya is definitely trying to process things in her own way and trying her best to navigate things with Carina at the same time but it's obviously difficult because it's not the way Carina wants her to and Maya is doing it on her own terms. The communication is still off so that's why they're still stuck in this mess that they're in.
Yes, they have too many characters that don't really have a specific purpose but I do like how they had Vic discover hers in this recent episode. But there are still characters that are kinda just there...like Jack and even Ben lately and Travis' whole mayor thing that just take up time with stuff that isn't necessary. I don't know how they're going to bring Diane back into it. I would be shocked if it's specifically for Maya even though I'm sure she's going to have to do a full recovery physically and emotionally before heading back to work but I'm sure Jack will have to get therapy too if he's now thinking of returning to work after working with the fire camp girls so who knows. It does seem like Vic's health issues were either dropped or are magically fixed now.
Yes it's frustrating how they always do things like that to fit the plot line/story they're trying to tell. I'm almost positive it will be Jack though because like you said they are going to make it a point to have Maya forgive him in the long run but I really hope they don't do the whole sperm thing again, that would be ridiculous and so stupid if they didn't learn their lesson the first time. I'm still hoping Carina is pregnant anyway and we won't have to worry about that.
I was super disappointed with Carina's appearance on Grey's...like that's really all they had her do? They really just don't know how to utilize her and it's so sad because they used to be able to so well. I don't get what changed. Once I saw that Danielle's name wasn't listed in the guest star credits I knew they weren't going to continue it and it was going to be a let down. All the "crossovers" between the two shows are now.
Yeah Lucas is getting a little annoying with the whole Shepherd thing. It feels like they may be doing a slow burn type thing with Jo and Link but who knows. I'm glad they dropped the idea of him with Jules but I still don't get why they messed up Amelia and Link. They clearly aren't invested in Amelia and Kai because Kai just comes and goes whenever they please. Maggie and Winston are so forgettable and the angst isn't even believable because I feel like they're just there half the time and you don't even realize. It came out of nowhere this fighting between them. Ugh I know! Is Helm gone for good or what? She forever deserves better.
Haha I know right? Good for him though because Mike Chang was so underrated and he was so underused! And now look at him.
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Hi byler family!
I've just finished watching st4 vol.2 so that means that I've officially finished the whole season 4 and I'd love to share with you some thoughts I have... like both byler and general thoughts and ideas
Warning ⚠️ ⚠️ spoilers ahead
I'll start with my overall impressions :
St4 made me a bit disappointed... not only about byler stuff but in general... I don't know what did I expect, but I really do feel disappointed
Eddie💔 that's so heartbreaking that newly introduced and truly good character died in the same season that he was introduced 😢 however, his death was spectacular and in his style... I feel like he deserved way better
I'm happy Hop and Joyce are back and safe... but what happened to MURRAY, ENZO and MURRAY? I can only assume that they are still alive and minding their own businesses rn..
I feel sorry for Dr Owens... he was such a nice guy in my opinion;(
While whole season 3 was loaded with retro vibes and retro stuff I completely didn't feel the same vibes with s4... I know that the circumstances and action and basically everything was different but it is really seen that st4 is much more focused on action than background
The way Vecna kills people is really terrifying and horror like
I feel sorry for Robin because of her crush... after all, in the final scene they talk and something starts to sparkle between them... but still, my heart broke apart when I saw that girl kissing another boy
I hoped for Steddie and Ronance in my deepest dreams and I feel kinda disappointed rn hahah But we still have such wonderful stuff like fanarts and fanfics and the most important- our imagination!
I felt very confused about Stancy but I'm glad that Jancy is ultimately back- I feel kind of sorry for Steve.. but this whole thing with Nancy was really necessary for him to grow up I think
Suzie storyline was funny, you can't tell it wasn't! It was really minor element of the whole story but it was really cool to see Suzie again!
To be honest... I wasn't that much surprised with the ending of volume 1... I expected that Vecna is 001 as I've read about it here, on tumblr, even before the first s4 trailer was released so yeah... I also expected that this blonde assistant was 001 so it wasn't unexpected for me!
We can't trust the Duffers cause they say different things and do different things... to be honest, they irritate me a bit hahah
The issue with Will's birthday is still unsolved... I mean the Duffers like said that they forgot about it but it seems really improbable and without any sense to me that they put a date description on the video.. and also the fact that Will's birthday are the only one certain and official birthday!
That whole issue with the upside down creation is much more interesting to me now! Yeah, El opened the gate two times. However, she didn't create the Upside down- she only opened the gate.. so how was the Upside down created then?
Another veery interesting topic is the Will's connection with Henry and the whole Upside down.. I'd love to read some more updated theories about it!
And the most confusing for me was the ending of the whole season 4 and the issue with Max... is she still alive if the gate was opened at the end of s4? Also that scene where El tried to find her and communicate with her in the void but didn't manage to... I have sort of a feeling that this was just a trial of an artificial sustaining of the Hawkins peace and calm... bringing Max back and her being stuck in a coma was temporary just to let people escape from Hawkins and then again she dies and the gate is being opened again as we can see in the last scene of s4..
I'll make some comments about s4 byler in the another post... see you soon!
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Stranger Things 4 thoughts (SPOILERS)
ALRIGHT! Now that I've finally finished the new season of Stranger Things (my family didn't want to cooperate at all) and I've had some time to process everything, I want to share my thoughts.
I have to be honest, I didn't enjoy it as much as I had hoped. Sure there were a lot of exciting moments (like seeing papa alive), but some things felt.. forced? Or they didn't give much attention to them.
What I loved about season 3 was how great the Duffer Brothers were to have four-three different storylines AND making it work perfectly. None of the groups felt overlooked or overdone, it was the perfect balance between the characters, their emotions and their goasl and it was awesome to see how everything connects and how all the groups together can work with one another at the end. I haven't felt that with this season yet.
I guess that the groups maybe will meet up in the upside down, at least that's what I hope for tbh, but I haven't seen some build up for anything. Maybe they're saving the most important things for the last two episodes, idk.
Now let's talk about the groups. Imma start with everyone's favourite couple, Hopper and Joyce and of course our karate kid, Murray. Their plot was by far my favourite. It was so interesting to see Hopper in Russia, his hope slowly fading away, but then gaining it immediately back the moment his eyes landed on Joyce. Plus, her and Murray were so funny and so chaotic, I love them.
Now for Jonathan, Will, Mike and Argyle. I wanted to see more. It didn't feel like much, but I did enjoy their moments together. Argyle is super funny and Jonathan is adorable when he is high. Mike is well Mike and Will needs to accept himself and talk to Mike about his crush on him (also about them forgetting his birthday, yikes). I like how they kind of point out Mike's lost feelings for Eleven, idk if we will have an actual chance with Mike and Will, but I don't believe that mileven is going to last much longer. That or Mike has commitment issues, since he can't write I love you, because he did say it in season 3.
(Also, Suzie's house is a nuthouse.)
I guess it rans in the Wheeler family, because the Wheeler's this season have been confusing af. Nancy what is happening? Why is there unwanted tension between you and Steve. Why is everyone around them pushing the two together? We had a whole plot point about how Nancy and Jonathan are best for eachother and how much they cared for one another in season 3 despite their arguement and now what? We just going to throw all that away? I cannot tell you how excited I was to see those two combine forces together as friends, but they had to ruin that for us with shit that doesn't even make sense. Nancy deserves so much more than making her character fight between two boys.
What I got from this whole plot was that Nancy started seeing Steve in another light, because she's scared that Jonathan might be pulling away from her. Sure, writers have her be worried about that, but the answer here is communication, not cheating. Steve better make her remember the reason why they broke up, if they don't I'll hate everyone.
Moving on. Dustin is awesome as always. I love Lucas. We need more of Erica. Max has SERVED this season. Eddie is hilarious. Robin was nice (in some points a little annoying but I still love her). Steve is the love of my life (that scene with the bats had me on the floor). These new bullies annoy the living crap out of me. Plus, Eleven needs to have some peace for longer than a year for the love of god!
I'm not really sure how I feel about vecna.. yeah he's terrifying, but this humane approach to the upside down makes me fear that they will pull a riverdale and I'd hate to see that happening with one of my favourite series.
Overall I both liked and disliked this season for many and different reason, but I still have hope for the last two episodes. Sorry if this is too long, but thank you if you beared with my thoughts till the end!
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☕ Steve's home life
heyyy so i'm gonna be annoying and link a previous ask i answered about steve's dad before getting into this just bc i don't want to rephrase it all dmfjdjxm.
the gist of it is that i think there's a wide range of possible interpretations of what steve's home life is like, and i'm personally guilty of just kinda flip-flopping between many of them depending on which interpretation best fits my current fic/idea/whatever. that said, i do think it's fair to say that steve comes from a rather emotionally distant family and doesn't really feel understood or supported at home.
we're told a few things about his parents: his dad has money, his dad cheats, his mom is "super well respected," his dad is an asshole, a douchebag, etc. but beyond that, we also get to see the sort of child they raised, and steve is... not the most well-adjusted.
if any character in stranger things is desperate for love, acknowledgement, and validation, it's steve (also dustin but this ain't about him and we know for a fact that his mommy loves him very much). he stakes his entire self-worth and identity on the validation he recieves from his peers as "king steve" and later on nancy's love. he admits to robin that he essentially lived for the kinds of shallow validation that his friends, parents, and society told him were valuable. he doesn't know who he is or what he's good for outside of that, always chasing some new way to prove his worth (as king steve, as the great boyfriend, as the good babysitter). he worries about how his parents will react to weed and beer, but not about how they'll react to him being missing for days at a time and his face being beaten to a bloody pulp. the whole "steve's parents are always out of town" thing is fanon, but they still don't seem to play much of a role in his life even when they are in town. he only really talks about his father in relation to being punished. he only ever mentions his mother when robin asks about the reference he listed.
i personally get the impression that steve's parents probably conflate their wealth and the lifestyle they're able to give steve with their loving him, and they believe that steve is obligated to achieve that same socioeconomic status as a sort of reward to them for raising him. i think steve was raised in an environment where he only really received love (from his father at least idk about his mom) when he behaved exactly as desired, and he... isn't the best at that. i don't think steve's dad is very kind to him at all, honestly. steve is a very loving guy, and i don't think he would speak about his dad the way he does if his dad was just a run-of-the-mill parent trying to discipline him yknow?? it seems that steve's dad didn't just want steve to work, he intended for steve's scoops job to function as a humiliation tactic to punish steve for not getting into school, which is a terrible fucking way to respond to your kid experiencing something that's already demoralizing as hell. his dad seemingly accuses him of being on drugs on a regular basis. i don't know about steve's mom, but i feel like she's probably the kind of person that's more active in the community than she is with her own kid. i have a few different headcanons for what she's like but they're all mostly just my own invention so that's irrelevant skcjdjxn Anyway steve knows all about their marital issues and they have separate bedrooms, which makes me think they probably fight in front of him.
so basically... that's it idk skcjdjxnc i think steve has a kinda shitty home life and his parents take a very disciplinarian approach to everything instead of actually talking with him and trying to help him out
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