#just observations of fandom reactions and behavior
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i was thinking about not saying anything because really i just want peace amongst the lands but as a person who likes torturing herself on bad social media sites i wanna say the situation with the 'movie is better vs show is better' thing isn't as simple as two camps sprouting simultaneously.
if anything, after the movie was premiered in theatres and leaked there was this camp who saw it that very loudly and harshly spread this whole hate campaign on the show, straight up worshipped the movie like it was the best thing since sliced bread, just started hating on the show like they were antis. in all honesty some people talked like they were being PAID. because 'movie is way better than the shitty show!!' was all i could see on twitter for over a month and i didn't watch it so i was like um maybe it really is groundbreaking?
but then the movie officially released and all of a sudden i saw a lot more 'tbh i didn't think it was that great' takes pop up in replies and comments and posts. it was evening out and then i started to see 'just let people enjoy the movie!! stop bullying us for preferring it over the show!' tweets and 'theres two cakes!! can't we just eat!!' type posts. and i genuinely think most people (on tumblr) want to keep the peace and aren't trying to cause harm. but it puts a slightly bitter taste in my mouth because people were straight up harassing thomas astruc over how the movie did everything so good and his show version was so awful lousy and cringefail. and regardless of how he responded or what your opinion is of him ifl people went too far in their 'support' of the movie at the expense of the show. and having this context and knowing how awful people have been could be sort of... eye-opening? i guess?
because its one thing for two camps to suddenly start fighting. its another when one side was poking the bear for no reason whatsoever for AGES only to start victimizing themselves when the opposite happened (and never usually to the same extent)
#text#miraculous ladybug#miraculous awakening#mlbposting#ml fandom salt#ig?#this isnt salt about either the show or the movie#just observations of fandom reactions and behavior#and me wanting to give context to people who RIGHTFULLY dont want to use#certain social media platforms#but oh i am. oh boy do i see things#oh boy do i peruse
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i made the joke earlier about how steddyhands fans tend to like edstede the least of all the pairs, and i just wanted to elaborate bc actually i do have more to say about this
when i first watched the show i didn't really participate in the fandom (so i don't know pre-s2 fandom drama), i was neutral about izzy and i suppose i liked edstede the most simply by default. in general in season 1 i thought their relationship was charming back when the show was still firmly in the realm of a comedy. then s2 happened...
i wouldn't say that s2 ruined edstede for me permanently because i still like them, but i will say that it definitely reshaped how i see their relationship. suddenly their relationship was stagnant, going in circles, and generally starting to feel more like active bad influences on each other. which is wild considering how in s1 the whole crux of it was that stede and ed were actively making each other more authentic people. i will say though that i personally feel the reason edstede fell flat to me in s2 was mostly due to ed's behavior and the way stede overlooks it. ed's behavior in s2 will always be one of my biggest complaints of s2 (the rest of the issues are more technical).
recently i've seen the opinion that edstede are now MORE problematic than edizzy, which i don't exactly agree with. i agree with the sentiment that with all the developments in s2 edstede feels worse, but i think that has more to do with the fact that their relationship issues are far more tangible to the majority of the audience. with edizzy their issues stem from an intense bond forged by a deep codependence that is pushed to extremes. simply put their dynamic is rare. (i want to quickly note that this doesn’t make their relationship better narratively; there’s a space for both in story telling and both are equally valuable.) edstede's issues on the other hand are more grounded, to the point where most people have experienced some level of their conflicts in their life whether that be firsthand or secondhand. so it's not that their problems are worse so much as more people have stronger reactions because they can relate directly. not saying people don't relate to edizzy, it's more about the scale to which people relate.
my famous example is breaking bad (spoilers for a decade-old series) but i think one of the reasons people hate skylar so much more than walt (besides the obvious misogyny) is that they can relate to the anger of being cheated on while it's harder to relate to the feeling of your husband secretly being a drug lord. like sure his thing on paper is ten times worse but audiences usually relate strongly to the things they personally relate to.
edizzy will always be worse on paper (the toe incident alone makes sure of that) but edstede now feels worse is what i'm getting at. and sure i know izzy emotionally matured leaps and bounds in s2 but unfortunately that doesn't fix edizzy. in order for it to actually be a healthy relationship they both need to grow, so yeah they're still firmly in the toxi yuri category.
anyway i actually do like them a whole lot, but they also make me angry on izzy and the crew's behalf. and on a personal level, i just tend to prefer non-canon ships because i feel like i have more wiggle room. that and if they're canon i'm usually satisfied with that canon so i don't find myself hyper-fixating as much. hence why i didn't really get into the fandom after s1, despite liking the show more at that point.
this is just my observation but i think a lot of the reasons people are now drifting from edstede and into the safety of non-canon ships is simply because s2 stripped their relationship of some of their whimsy. a lot of people are angry with ed and stede and are seeking refugee amongst ships that don’t feel like they have to confront the glaring holes in their relationship.
but these are just my musings i don’t speak for anyone but myself.
#ofmd#our flag means death#ofmd s2#ofmd season 2#stede bonnet#edward teach#izzy hands#i’m not tagging any variation of edstede bc i don’t want to put negativity on their pages when they’re just going about their day#even tho i wouldn’t necessarily call this negativity against the ship#but just to be safe#steddyhands#edizzy#txt#long post#ofmd critical
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❝ Despite all the difficulties, I have grown to care about you in a way I never expected to. ❞
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Ꮺ 🗝️ Anon Requested ⨾ OHHMIGOSHSHHHHH HI!! i love your blog so far, and its just so cool!!/srs/gen i was wondering if u could write anything for masky? idk if u do marble hornets but i noticed u write 4 creepypasta!! IF YOU DONT YOU CAN DELETE THIS ASK!!!! if you would like me to be more specific, i was wondering about a male reader who is a proxy..? :3 hi this is the anon that asked for the masky w proxy reader!!! i ws wondering if i could go by 🗝️ anon? SORRY I FORGOT IN THE ASK
Ꮺ Eun Replies ⨾ I love how cheery you are and I appreciate the kind words, I've been trying my best ^^. Ah yes, I do write for Marble Hornets and i was planning on expanding for what fandoms i write in. I did have some errors because of how i wanted Masky to be Canon as much as possible. I apologize if i made him ooc, i barely remember the actual lore. I hope you do enjoy my works.
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Ꮺ Disclaimer — I do not condone this kind of behavior in real life situations. Might be out of character, I apologize it might be random. English is not my main!
Reader & Genre ⨾ MALE!PROXY!reader, can be romantic or platonic.
Words used ⨾ 10,000+ ( 27 headcanons )
Character ⨾ MASKY ( TIMOTHY "TIM" WRIGHT )
Links ⨾ My Navigation and Mandates
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FIRST MEETING —
Masky from marble hornets encountered a new male proxy, he would likely react with extreme suspicion and caution.
Masky would have a very strong protective and possessive attachment to the current male he is bonded to, and would view anyone else as an unwelcome intruder and threat.
Masky's reaction would likely be more reserved and guarded towards the new proxy. He would still feel protective and possessive towards the current proxy, He would likely just observe the new proxy's behavior and attitude, and would attempt to get a read on their intentions before deciding what level of caution and suspicion he should have towards them.
He would likely have a more calm and neutral reaction. He would likely still be somewhat suspicious and cautious of the newcomer, but would not likely view them with much aggression or hostility. Masky would likely act cautiously and reserve judgement until he actually got to know the new proxy, and would not likely act aggressively or violently without reason.
Timothy's backstory has made him very guarded and paranoid, making it natural for him to be suspicious and cautious of other people's intentions. However, he has still developed some affection and fondness for the group, feeling somewhat close to them but still keeping some distance and mistrust towards them.
His initial reaction would be one of suspicion and distrust. He would likely sense there is something special, unique or different about this new male, and would feel wary and unsettled by this fact.
However, the new male's personality and friendly interactions would also likely intrigue Timothy and make him feel somewhat attracted to him. Over time, Timothy's suspicions and mistrust would likely lessen, and he would begin to develop an attachment and fondness for the new male. He would likely begin to feel protective and possessive over the new male as well.
FIRST INTERACTION —
If the two were forced to have a first interaction and to work together, it would likely be quite awkward and tense. Masky would likely be very reserved and guarded, and not be very willing to engage in any type of interactions or small talk. The new male proxy would likely find this interaction quite uncomfortable and awkward, and may feel frustrated and irritated at Masky's non-responsiveness and guardedness. This interaction would likely not go too well, with little communication between the two.
Masky might even try to convince the group to not include the new male proxy in their assignments or tasks, but would find it difficult to justify not having them join the group without revealing his true and possessive feelings towards the group. Overall, Masky would likely be quite distant and aloof towards the new male proxy, refusing to engage in any form of small talk or interaction.
If the new male proxy happens to be talkative, this would likely frustrate and irritate Masky even more than having to interact with a new person already would. Masky would likely feel overwhelmed and irritable at the new proxy's attempts at communication and small talk.
Outside, Masky and the new male proxy would probably mostly avoid each other.
Masky would try to keep to himself and not engage with the male proxy unless absolutely necessary. The male would likely find this attitude quite frustrating, feeling pushed away and ignored. Masky only responding to them with minimal replies and refusing to engage in any type of long conversations. The two would likely keep to themselves and avoid interaction with each other unless they had to work together again.
Masky would not trust the new proxy to watch his back or back him up in case of conflict while on missions or outside of them. He would rather stick to himself and rely solely on his own skills and abilities.
Masky would not be inclined to share his thoughts or feelings with the new proxy, seeing them as someone who he only has to work with and does not want to get close to on a personal level.
Little by little, the two would likely become somewhat used to the presence of each other. The new proxy would likely become used to Masky's aloofness and detached nature, and likely learn how to read his subtle cues and body language. Masky would also be somewhat familiarized with the new proxy's talkative and energetic nature, and would learn to anticipate and prepare mentally for the possibility of such interaction. Despite their one-sided conversations, the two would likely become used to each other's presence, though their conversations would still remain largely one-sided.
Masky would likely react with frustration and irritation to the male proxy acting as if he was just any normal person, despite having such a dangerous job under slenderman.
Masky would feel his own importance and role being diminished and not given the respect it deserves, and would probably be upset that the new proxy does not understand or recognize the challenges they face.
Masky would likely act in a dismissive and detached manner towards the new proxy, feeling frustrated and annoyed at his lack of understanding and respect for their situation.
People would likely feel intrigued and perhaps also a bit suspicious of the dynamic between Masky and the new male proxy. The others would likely notice how close Masky is to the male proxy, and would wonder why he is always right behind him or holding onto him in such a possessive manner.
Some would likely joke and make fun of Masky for seemingly needing to watch over and protect the male proxy, while others would feel slightly unnerved by the intensity of his protectiveness. Either way, their dynamic would likely raise some eyebrows and cause some speculations among people.
Masky would likely treat the male with somewhat indifference and detachment, though he would also be very territorial and protective of him, being constantly by his side and acting as his shield in case anyone tries to come near. Masky would likely only interact with the proxy if it was ABSOLUTELY necessary, and even then, he would keep his interactions short and to the point. He would not like forming any kind of friendship with the new male proxy despite having to work with them. He would see the man as just an associate and nothing more.
If the male proxy becomes comfortable around Masky by small things like sleeping on him and being in close physical proximity with him, Masky would likely feel slightly unsettled and uncomfortable. He would not be used to such closeness and familiarity with anyone outside of the core group, and would likely feel awkward and irritated by the man's actions. He would also not like the feelings of jealousy and possessiveness that the male proxy's closeness and intimacy would cause him to feel.
If others grab the new male's attention, Masky would likely show off his behavior by trying to constantly position himself between the male and others. He would likely make it a point to be as close with the male as possible, and would use his body as a shield to block or push away anyone who tries to approach the new male proxy.
Masky would likely try his best to not show it or act too aggressive about it. He would likely just make passive and casual remarks that would signal his frustration without revealing the full extent of his feelings. Some examples: "Oh, you're so popular" or "Everyone seems to be so interested in you".
Masky would likely find it irritating that the new male is not noticing or appreciating his efforts to shield the new male proxy from others. He'll probably start making slightly angrier and more aggressive remarks at the new male proxy, in an attempt to get them to focus their attention on him instead.
Masky and the new male proxy get closer, Masky's behavior towards the new male proxy would shift slightly. Starting to show a bit more warmth and friendliness towards the male proxy, as he starts to trust him more and feel more confident in their relationship.
Masky would also become more protective of the new male proxy and would be more likely to stand up for him or defend him against others. Masky would likely still be somewhat distant and aloof at times but would overall become more caring and considerate towards him.
Masky would also be very uneasy and distrustful if he catches the new male proxy being too friendly with other proxies or people outside the group.
Masky would feel slightly threatened if the new male proxy became close with other members of the group.
Masky and the new male get closer, Masky's behavior towards the new male proxy would shift slightly. He'll start showing a bit more warmth and friendliness towards the new male proxy, as he starts to trust him more and feel more confident in their relationship.
Masky would also become more protective of the male and would be more likely to stand up for him or defend him against others. He likely still be somewhat distant and aloof at times but would overall become more caring and considerate towards him.
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Ꮺ ⨾ I DO NOT CONSENT TO MY WORK BEING COPIED OR TRANSLATED.
#Eun.writes#Eun.asks#Eun.🗝️#marbel hornets#marble hornets x reader#marble hornets masky#masky x reader#masky x you#masky x male reader#male reader#creepypasta#creepypasta masky#ftm reader#my balls are so scared of fans who might attack me for ooc
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what do you think about how nick and taylor don't like or comment on each other's post especially the ones after the strike when they both tagged each other? taylor reposted the other cast members posts and commented and liked but didn't do the same with Nick and Nick did interact and repost the bottoms cast posts. I'm not being a hater. I just found it odd, someone on twitter was saying how they do it on purpose bc they know some people ship them but idk isn't that weird move especially when you want to hype your movie. I love their dynamic and i feel kinda upset ngl I hope there's no drama recently taylor told a fan and when the fan asked about him and Nick he said they keep in touch often and they're good friends. i hope he was being genuine. idc if they aren't close close but in a weird way I will feel sad if there's drama
I want to believe that you have no ill intentions, but this issue is a real one in all fandom culture, and other people might need to hear this too. I'm gonna be blunt with you:
You're manufacturing drama.
They have not done or said anything that would imply that they don't like each other. In fact, they've established multiple times that they are close friends. The way they behave on social media does not establish or represent what their relationship is like in their real lives.
They could do whatever they wanted on their public accounts that could make people think there's bad blood, and actually be texting each other 24/7 behind the scenes. They could block each other's socials and watch everyone scramble while they just laugh at the chaos.
Speculating about the relationship of two grown, professional men in film industry based on the tiniest amounts of "evidence" is not good behavior.
In case you don't realize it, you are essentially suggesting that, based purely on biased observations and jumping to conclusions, that Nick and Taylor could be lying about being friends.
I find it concerning that your reaction to Taylor saying they keep in touch and are close is to question if he's being "genuine". How does two grown men acting differently than you would expect or want them to suggest that they are not being "genuine"?
If Taylor saying to a fan's face isn't "believable" enough, what do you want them to do? Post screenshots of their text messages with time stamps and dates to prove they talk to each other?
They do not need to "prove" anything to you. They owe you nothing about the details of their personal lives. They are not dolls existing for your entertainment. They are human beings.
This needs to be said and understood more in every fandom, so don't think I've aimed all this directly at you personally, Anon. Again, I want to believe you have no ill intentions, but I want to make it clear how small things like this can be unhealthy for you, for the rest of the fandom, and of course, to the public figures involved.
#red white and royal blue#rwrb#rwrb movie#rwrb thoughts#taylor zakhar perez#nicholas galitzine#katz questions
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I know you just escaped the Baki loop but I just wanna know how would the baki characters react to the reader rizzing up the caveman? Like you know that one joke where Baki just looks like he's trying to pull the caveman for his fight? all I want is the reactions from the fighters to this scenario
https://youtube.com/shorts/GNa_cQzWSm0?si=sbadxZtPsQsRKdQU
Oh not at all, I still have a bunch of requests that are Baki related. I'm just spreading them out so to say. Also kind of difficult to switch my brain between fandoms, so I can only write little bits every few days. Hence the slow updates. :')
Is Reader just pulling them moves in plain sight?
Retsu would probably be demanding to know, red faced, what on Earth you think you're doing. T-this behavior is not fit for a fighting arena! Is this your strange way of challenging Pickle?
Jack is just silently observing because let's be honest now, if he were to open his mouth to complain someone would instantly bring up the fact he himself smooched the hell out of Pickle.
Katsumi doesn't mind much, perhaps there's the smallest hint of jealousy because the most romantic interaction he's ever gotten was someone setting his Dojo on fire.
Baki finds it hilarious and will cheer on you from the audience.
And, well, Pickle will absolutely not refuse the attention he's getting. Though you should be careful what you wish for.
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I started watching this year and your tumblr was one of the first places I started looking for content, so basically I got all the sebchal lore and I remember seeing that you disliked charlos and I thought you were too harsh in some asks, because they seem friendly and carlos nice.
Now during the actual season I slowly changed my mind seeing Carlos radios trying to make people think he is faster and wanting to swap, the way he acted on some qualis, his obsession always asking charles time and saying he's doing better (monaco), his interviews and NOW finally with the way his family acted with Charles.
And the fact all of this seems to work with people ? Because it seems people believe everything he says, so now we have people claiming charles points, podiums or whatever are all because ferrari gave him preferential treatment. And claiming that if carlos wasn't "treated as second driver" he would be winning a lot more than charles.
Honestly now I can't even believe a charles fan could still like their "relationship" because their behavior is contributing a lot to the hate charles is getting this season.
I have a belief that is not just coincidental and that they are trying to get in charles head, to make him doubt himself, lose confidence etc
Hello there 👋🏻
Honestly, I tried my best to go into this new "era" at Ferrari with an open mind and just observe this new lineup and their dynamics and then form an opinion based on my feelings and reactions. At one point I even said to one of my friends in this fandom, like, "what if I like Charles/Carlos so much that they eclipse my feelings for Seb/Charles?" I watched the first C2 challenges when they started dropping, and while they seemed quite innocuous, it was already blatantly obvious to me that this was going to be a completely different dynamic to Seb and Charles (understandably, but still.)
I think the first major turning point regarding my perception of Carlos and of their relationship as a whole was Monaco 2021. Carlos never really hid the fact that he blamed Charles's crash for hindering what he thought was a shot at pole (data accessible online proved that if anything, Valtteri was closer to pole than Carlos was on that occasion, but we still kept hearing about how "I could've been on pole" for like 6 months afterwards.) Obviously then on Sunday Charles couldn't start because of the car issue, which was a huge blow for him given that it was his home race, back after a year-long absence due to the pandemic.
Carlos finished on the podium and instead of taking it for what it is he just kept going on about how it's the "least enjoyable podium of his career" (still clinging to the perception that he lost out on pole), and then in 2022 giving an interview in which he stated that drivers will crash deliberately if they feel it gives them an edge, but was coy about what he meant. Still, given his feelings regarding Monaco 2021, it's not that hard to guess what he might've been referring to...
There were a few other points of contention in 2021 but because Ferrari were in the midfield at the time and the world's attention was on the Max vs Lewis title fight, those incidents kind of flew under the radar and most people still had this perception that there's this chill harmonious atmosphere at the team, and most of the cracks only started to publicly show in 2022. Even in the aftermath of Monaco 2022 (why is Monaco always so full of drama fr) I got anons about how I'm exaggerating, hating for no reason, etc. I think the public perception scales took a little while longer to fully tip, but from Silverstone onwards I think things started to shift a bit.
At some point I also stopped bothering with the C2 content because I was just not vibing with what I was seeing tbh. It's like the on-track stuff carried over to the PR content and to me Carlos came across as quite patronizing and envious. 🤷🏻♀️ When Charles drove him around Monaco for a video his biggest gripe was that people on the street are rooting for Charles and supporting him publicly. Like what did you expect, it's his home race, in a country that has a population of like 39,000 😭
I think one of the biggest problems is that Carlos's entire family is involved, and very closely at that, in his career and by extension in Ferrari's internal affairs. It's basically an open secret that they like to engage in a political tug-of-war and plant stories in the media to drive a certain kind of narrative that makes Carlos's optics look more favourable.
I agree that Carlos seems... a little too invested in the optics and statistics vs Charles. Yeah, your teammate is the first person you want to beat, but when you're content to finish 5th or something as long as you're ahead of your teammate then it becomes a bit of an issue. I saw a clip of a recent podcast sit-down thing Carlos did, where one of the questions was like, how do you cope with a mistake and recover from that; he brought up Charles unprompted, comparing Charles's "I am stupid" team radio after a qualy crash (from like 4 years ago) to his own approach and how he doesn't think or say that kind of thing about himself. It's like was this necessary, lol.
#replies#anonymous#shows up 5 days late with starbucks and a lot of Opinions sdkfkg#also everyone talks about charles's 'pretty privilege' but you can't underestimate how carlos is perceived in that regard#he's conventionally attractive & charismatic to many and it's doing wonders for sort of smoothing over all the questionable stuff#discussions and predictions#long post
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to be frank, i am glad the jennie/tae situation is over and you can see the switch in taehyung’s outside perception again. That rumor costed Taehyung a positive solo debut and created a bad narrative around him. I’ve been observing people’s reactions (not just ARMYs but Koreans in general) towards the dating rumors since it started and it only affected him negatively.
J*nnie has always been a polarizing person in the industry more so now than ever. She’s always been involved in controversies either about her partying lifestyle, lazy performances or rude attitude. His involvement w her (real or not) did nothing but paint him in a negative light. they would associate him with her every time she had a controversy. During that p*rn series of hers they would involve T*ehyung about his “girlfriend trashy behavior”, then during her whole recent lazy scandal they would say Taehyung is with someone that doesn’t seem to put energy or passion to their job as opposed to him who’s always been known for his good performance skills. And during GD dr*gs scandal they were trying to involve him and BTS by linking him with Jennie who used to date GD and still hangs out with majority of his friends.
It was terrible for him. It switched the way a lot of people (mostly gp) perceives Taehyung as a person because it put into question his character and is not false that bp is a polarizing group in sk and the majority of armys don’t like bp not just for the fandom being awful to bts but because they in general hold a very terrible image and you can tell there’s not love or passion for the work that they do. just 4 airheads that keep taking ownership of the things bts worked for as a group.
i personally saw so many negative media articles about taehyung during that period in a way i’ve never seen before. He’s always been liked by the media. and now that the break up articles came up, i am starting to see Taehyung trending on naver for good positive things again such as how good he looks with his buzzcut or how great he was at the variety show. that relationship with jennie did nothing but bring him down and i am glad he can finally be free.
Hi anon!
Mmm, I think it's very much a point of perspective (and I don't really follow BP, so I'm not sure if I see this correctly). Army generally does not like BP (or maybe moreso Blinks) much. At least, the loudest voices don't really seem to get allong, because I'm sure there's also many Army who do like BP as well.
So from an Army perspective.. BP is the source of all evil in many cases. From a BP prspective, this would probably be the other way around. It's a competion based rivalry I think.. both fanbases wanting theirs to be the Kpop group that get's to be the biggest. Whether this rivalry also exists between Bp members and BTS members themselves is doubtfull I think.
Pairing Tae and Jennie for this was basically the ultimate attention grab... can we actually think of a pairing that would have more of an impact (Kpop wise)? Did they hope for Tae's image to rub of on Jennie? Did that blow up in their faces a bit? Do they see this as a succesfull stunt right now? I do feel it's possible the stunt was pulled before it actually was supposed to. After Paris things got chaotic real fast... and there was definitely more hate than positivity going around. Talking about the amount of attention they got, I'd say they deem it succesfull.. the quality of attention was not that great, but I think that was of lesser concern. Tae is wonderfull, so the possible damage that has been done to his image will be mended in no time.
I am very glad there was an actual visible ending right before his enlistment. This gives a certain level of peace for fandom and I think for Tae personally it must've been some sort of relieve. Jennie wont be blamed for cheating while he's away. And when Tae returns.. all of this will be long gone.
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There’s been a recurring tread in Fandom Discouse(TM) or Fanwank for those who tell it like it is. And it revolves around Redemption Arcs.
These type of stories have been the most controversial on various levels for good reasons. It often comes down to how we may identify with or project onto the character in question and the discomfort it may bring.
Specifically in regards to characters that may hit too close to home. Characters who are very much perpetrators of conflict and violence rather than victims. They hurt others for their gain be they sociopathic or just apathetic to what they wrought.
Many have dealt with these precise people in their lives and will thus have very strong words to say when a character of similar attributes appears to be turning themselves around. There will be some deliberation over how “earned” it felt on a narrative level but either way, they are on a better path in life.
For these aforementioned fans among others, it’s a difficult pill to swallow… if not one they nearly choke on. In their eyes, this character is barely even human but a monster in every sense of the word. They’ve hurt characters they love. They’ve either enjoyed it or brushed it off in indifference.
Where does Chloe factor into this? Well… it fascinates me that we got a circle of fandom that advocates for a character, a female character no less, and their could’ve-been development from Mandy but crossing way more lines.
She’s the inciting incidents for nearly every Akuma in Season 1 and is almost intentional about it. While Season 2 would humanize her and show a likely source of her behavior, I have seen more characters get shit for far less and they would rarely mean the things they say or do when in a mood.
There’s also the, um, gender thing. It have especially been my and others observations that a female character is likely to have a borderline hate campaign against them for either exhibiting a trait that male characters will get a pass for or just… making a mistake.
My Adventures With Superman subverted the very long standing secret identity dynamic Clark had with Lois Lane by having the aspiring journalist put the pieces together fast.
Her reaction to Clark not being straight with her was hardly terribly welcoming, especially given her father being deceptive with her. The Fandom’s reaction was extra less welcoming and overlooked her possible complexes over liars in favor of her behavior.
So… why is Chloe somehow exempt? There are likely multiple factor but I think there's a large one that's gone underexamined.
Obviously there's the feeling of being cheated out of a redemption storyline that Season 2 seemed to kick start. Yet it's not like Season 3 just had her be mean again out of the blue. Chloe is still very much a brat even if Despair Bear, Zombizou and her Queen Bee trilogy had her take a good look at herself.
Old habits die hard. Hawk Moth just took the time in Season 3 to gradually give said habits a clean bill of health.
My observations of Fandom Culture at large leads me to feel like Chloe's case is about less what did happen and was undone but more like what seemed to be happening but didn't. Fandom loves the hypothetical. The theories, the speculation. A lot of it is very personalized even when fans come together to pitch their own takes.
As such, there's a personal investment factor in these malleable concepts that's distinct from engaging in the hardwared canon. It's a sandbox where the material you're working with can be molded into what suits you. Canon can be too often, "Here it is: take it or leave it." Fanon is more accomadating to those who might want to change things.
Bare in mind, I'm not trying to advocate for one or the other here. Fanon depends on canon, warts and all, and a Fandom can't flourish without it period. But sometimes we mistake Fanon for what should happen and ignore the innate placeholder status they have. Thus Canon is seen as an intrusion when, well, it's just the show itself.
Another reason may be because for all the grouching about redemption arcs, we've... rarely seen such backslide let alone one that sticks considerably. We've had our Majin Vegetas and Book 2 Finale!Zukos but rarely have we (outside of specific circumstances and specific mediums) had a redemption arc reverse course.
As such, many seem keen to ignore how organic the journey from Queen Bee to Miracle Queen really was. Her insistence of joining the fray with Ladybug, her tendency to shoot her mouth with a sharp tongue to boot returning more like in Stormy Weather 2, making a Bee Signal of all things.
The ground work was laid for Queen Wasp's return and the soil was beyond fertile. Thus her villain arc for Season 4 and 5 involves tripling down on her banal evil from brainstorming Marinette's fall, getting evilized intentionally and keeping Sabrina from sleeping (boy howdy, was Chloe lucky she didn't go to her dad, A police officer :P).
Now... nobody needs to like this or stop disliking what they dislike. It just would be nice if considering other perspectives and looking beyond one's expectations was encouraged.
#redemption#redemption arcs#chloe bourgeois#miraculous ladybug#miraculoustalesofladybugandcatnoir#miraculous lb#miraculous meta#mlb#mlb fandom#fanon#canon#meta analysis#fandom analysis#queen bee#vesperia#miracle queen#queen mayor#penalteam#antibug
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Pls ignore if this bothers you but how do you know if self shipping is healthy or not? I have always used it to cope but I also get told by people that it's unhealthy to want to love characters since they're fictional. I've always admired you and how dedicated you are to the characters you love, you don't act like anything holds you back, and I wish I could do that. I envy you sometimes. I've printed your art, I hope you don't mind. It brings me comfort when I feel down on myself like this.
Hey babe, first off, it's all good. I'm never bothered by kind and well-intentioned asks such as this ❤
I'll answer your ask in reverse; I don't mind that you've printed my art, in fact I am very very very flattered!!!! Most of my artwork is really made just for myself (hence the self insert, haha) I'm assuming you're printing my old fanart or perhaps even my current Ken pieces - or even if you are printing my self insert for whatever reason that may be, I still think that's flattering. I have a love/hate relationship with my work, and I fell out of the habit of drawing for almost a year and I didn't pick it back up again until a little over a month ago, so I am glad you have an appreciation for the things that I create. This helps me feel motivated to create more! And I'm happy that I can be a part of your life in some small way.
As for your envy, I think that's unnecessary. You can be just as dedicated as me, possibly even more so, because I've actually had some really fucked up shit holding me back from self shipping for almost a year now (long story) and I am just now starting to dip my toes back into it, and I am still afraid, I am still unlearning the instilled reaction to fear the very characters that used to comfort me. It will take me a long time and it hurts so, so, so badly every single day. But even before I had That Fear holding me back, there was still nothing to envy about me. Something you aren't noticing within yourself is possibly the very thing you observe in me, someone you don't know. I gently ask, rhetorically, what is it about myself and my connection to characters that you value so highly? And what stops you from cultivating that within yourself? It must be already inside of you for you to value it. You are someone who is just as worthy of love as I am, after all!
To answer your actual question... no, I do not feel as if anyone having interest in fictional characters is unhealthy, to an extent. Are you preventing yourself from engaging with other things, such as going outside, cooking, cleaning, taking care of yourself physically and emotionally? Are you possessive of these characters to the point that it leads to destructive behavior, to yourself or others? Do you imagine these characters to genuinely treat you with kindness, or do you use them as a weapon to heighten your insecurities (telling yourself repeatedly that they wouldn't love you or find you attractive, writing them to be violent towards you or uncharacteristically aggressive as a way of punishing yourself or feeding negative thoughts about yourself, etc)? If the answer is no to all of these, then I don't see any issues.
I have always felt that self shipping, or really even just enjoying a character without the additional step to self ship, is always worthwhile to me because I find the exploration of my relationships with these characters to be invigorating, whether it's me genuinely writing myself to be IN a relationship with them or if it's me simply interacting with their source material and not even diving deeper into the world or placing myself inside of it. Sharing artwork also gives a sense of community even if I don't actively engage with fandom/the self ship community, having this blog and answering asks and connecting with friends over shared joy of characters is a healthy thing. I've made some meaningful friendships online and almost all of them are because I've bonded with others about favorite characters. Some ppl may find it unhealthy if they're actively choosing to be malicious. I can promise you most people see "this person has a crush on a fictional character" as kind of standard since the early 2000s lol. And online ppl especially aren't seeing all of you, so why should their opinion of you rly matter in the first place? Let's say, for example... my blog... if someone went through every single one of my posts (and there's 30,000+ posts, I believe) they'd still only see the smallest fraction of myself as a person and their judgement of me would be completely invalid - and tbh nobody among us would ever seem "healthy" if they're only viewing a single aspect of ourselves anyways. Nobody else except ppl within my physical social circle see my day to day life. This blog is literally just a blip of myself.
When people see behavior that is unlike their own, it's easy for them to assign negative labels to it. Behaving "outside of the norm" is already considered negative by default in this world we live in. It sucks! And there are certainly some ppl who don't self ship who probably take one look at my blog and make a quick judgement about it, possibly thinking I might not have a grip on reality or something. But most people don't make that immediate assumption unless if they're just looking to be hateful, and even if it this was everyone's reaction (it's not, I promise you people are way less judgmental about self shipping than you think), it shouldn't stop you from letting yourself have fun. I love drawing characters holding my hand! I love imagining them standing next to me when I'm doing something that I'm nervous about, like I hate working with fire/intense heat so I hate using the oven but I have to do it if I want to bake myself a cake, and nobody else is gonna do it for me, so I imagine someone who bakes/cooks often like Prince Gumball or Deckard Wizard standing next to me and smiling warmly and telling me he's rly proud of me for taking something out of the oven, even if I'm shaky while doing it. I love wearing bracelets and earrings and rings and necklaces and imagining that my F/Os gave these trinkets to me, or that I'd give these trinkets to them. I love baking and decorating little cakes and treating myself to little gifts for my anniversaries, and I have so many opportunities to celebrate loving myself because I have so, so, so many F/Os who love me. We breathe life into these characters when we create these stories with them, we manifest them in our own way and we all do it differently because none of us are exactly the same. It's like we all leave our own unique one-of-a-king fingerprint on a character...
...and isn't that beautiful? Isn't that a feeling you should celebrate? Why hold yourself back? People will always dislike what you do, people will always judge you regardless of what you do. You can paint a picture of a butterfly, post it, and most people will enjoy it, but there are some people who would want you dead for it, people who have nothing but violence in their hearts. People will hate you for no reason other than the fact that they can, regardless of what you're doing. It's an unfortunate part of life, but also a bit freeing to know that since it'll happen regardless, is there really anything stopping you from doing what brings you joy, besides your own fear of what people think of you? People who you'll never meet, people who do not hold any value to you whatsoever?
Anyway, the only way I see self shipping as unhealthy is if it is negatively impacting your life, then in that case something would definitely need to change. I'd listen to your own mind/feelings rather than taking my word for it, because ofc I don't know how you're self shipping -- you say that people are telling you it's unhealthy "because they're fictional", if that's the only reason, well... that's not unhealthy. That's the point of self shipping... they're fictional sdflkjsdf they are literally called Fictional Others. Anyone who assumes you aren't in your right mind because you want to imagine yourself or an OC holding hands with a canon character, well... it says a lot more about them as a person than it says about you, I can promise you that.
If your worries circle more around how you're perceived, ask yourself, how badly do you want to break free of that? Is constricting yourself worth it? My tone is gentle here, is it really genuinely worth it to hold yourself back? I think the most freeing thing I've ever done was go all out with my self shipping. I'm drawing it, writing it, I'm making animatics to love songs, I'm buying voice clips from voice actors asking for them to have the character say "I love you" and then I'm recording myself saying "I love you too" and shoving those audio clips into a video and storyboarding me and that character to that audio and playing it back and adding romantic music and sound effects and god it's so freeing. It's so freeing. Fitting yourself to a perceived "normalcy" is not worth it for me. Ask yourself if it's worth it, for you. Again, a gentle, genuine, soft-toned rhetorical question: is your mood improved when you're fitting yourself in a box rather than freely expressing yourself? Because ultimately, self shipping is for you. Just you.
You can also always start small, if this is something you really want to do. You don't have to make a blog full of self ship tags and art and writing and screenshots and gushing. You don't have to go big. You can take baby steps, if you want. Have a sketchbook dedicated to doodles of you and your F/O (and if you don't usually draw... do it anyway. Make stick figures. Drawing feels good.) Write little blurbs of you and your F/O doing something nice together, however big or small. Write 5 sentences in a notebook where you're holding hands and walking down a sidewalk and they stop to pick a flower for you just to see you smile. Do this for yourself.
I wish good things for you anon, I hope you don't mind i rambled a bit there but self shipping is something I'm very passionate about and it saddened me to read how you "feel down on yourself" as you phrased it. I'm glad my art can bring you some comfort, I hope it continues to do so. Thank you for reaching out to me ❤
#anonymous#asks#if your fear of how others perceive you is the only thing stopping you#then by all means. overcome it. whats that quote? 'im scared' 'then do it scared'#i would give ANYTHING to self ship with starscream and bumblebee and 50 billion other robots again#ANYTHING#i lost such a vital part of my own heart. due to something i cannot control#but fearing what others think of you IS something you can unlearn and control#it takes time! it wont be overnight! but i believe in you!!! and you can do it!!!#anon. you see something in me that you already have within yourself!! its there!!!#you have your own burning star in your heart and its bright and shining!!!#now take it out of its lantern!!! let it go nova!!!
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IMHO the shipping wars will continue as usual, no matter what happens on screen next season. Why? Because some people just can't accept that other people genuinely like a different ship and lash out using the usual arguments - accusations of self-inserting into the female character, liking incest, misogyny, etc. - things which are bound to get reactions from the opposite side and keep the conflict going.
If anything, things have gotten a little bit worse since you "left", at least with Helaemond vs others, like most of the new Helaegon shippers have turned out to be just antis who've joined their Alysmond friends into constantly bashing them. It's also a bit funny considering that, in the beginning, most of the first Helaegons were also Helaemonds, but since then, the ship has been taken over by antis, which made it unpalatable, at least for me. I think though that you did receive some complaints about this new wave of Helaegon shippers just before you closed off your inbox for anons, if I remember correctly.
Other than that, I guess there have been some Daemyra vs Alysmond conflicts, at least on Twitter from what I've seen, which involved the former piling on the latter simply because they disliked some theory or interpretation on the text. This is obviously unhinged behavior, but I still support the Daemyras doing this considering that Alysmonds and other green antis have done the exact thing, or worse actually, to fellow greens like Helaemonds so it's a bit hypocritical for them to complain when team black stans give them a taste of their own medicine. Sorry, this got a bit too long lmao, I guess you can take it as an update of how things stand when in comes to the shipping wars.
Hey there, anon, thanks for this very comprehensive recap on the state of the fandom. That's, um, a lot. 😅 I don't know what to say about the helaegon v helaemond thing - for me that is just beyond, bc I also remember people used to ship both with absolutely no issue a couple of months back. I, for one, also ship both + helaegond, so I really don't have any desire to engage with any of that, wow. 🤖
And that is the same advice I would give to anyone else - just stop bothering with the antis and do your own thing. As a general observation, I think that people get sucked into bickering way too often instead of just talking about the things they enjoy & making content for that. I get that, on some level, everyone feels the need to defend themselves when they encounter hate and nasty attitudes, so some level of that is perfectly understandable, but I don't think it's really worth it to let it take up the majority of your fandom experience. As someone who's literally been through hell & back these past months, I can promise you, it's not that serious. ☠️
There is something happening in fandoms of all kinds with the breakdown in communication and just general social norms and manners, where, upon encountering even a slightly different take from their own, people will start losing their shit and engaging in petty fights. They're just some ships, lol. None of these people are real! You can imagine scenarios in which even crackships can make sense. Fans are forming parasocial relationships with fictional characters nowadays - I've lost count of how many "MY Aemond would never do that" I used to see. Girl, what? I mean, it's fine as a joke, but then again you see them getting really belligerent with others, so you really have to question how much of it is truly horsing around and how much is just unhealthy investment and compensation for something else.
#and not just aemond lol people get really defensive with a whole host of characters like it's their own family members you're talking about#ask#anon#shipping wars#i don't really remember getting asks abt helaegon v helaemond before i closed off anon#but then again my brain is mush atm#anyway it's the dumbest fucking ship war i've ever heard of
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Why alvaluca shippers (most of the time) don't like other Alva ships: An explanation
So I'll start this off with the statement that I do ship alvaluca and other Alva ships, so that we're all on the same ground with this. This is coming from a point of someone who has observed this situation for almost a year from the pov of a player and around half a year from a pov of active fandom participant. These are just my observations and you are free to add your own by reblogging this post. I would love to hear other opinions on this!
Another thing before we start, this is a strictly anti-harrasment space. I love a good discussion, but the moment any sort of harassment is started, that's where you get blocked. Be civil and don't go harass people who like any of the ships vauged or mentioned in this post.
To start this of, let's look at the situation: alvaluca is the current hot ship to hate in the idv fandom. It's the ship everyone will always try to argue about, even go to the lengths of making up lies to justify their hatered for the said ship (the infamous 'Alva knew Luca as a baby' lie). This already puts most shippers in a very defense position, somewhat isolated from the main fandom unless they also like some other ships a lot.
Now, compared to Luca who has been out for a lot longer than Alva as a playable character, we know Luca already has an assortment of ships to choose from. Be it with a woman or a man, there's a number of characters you can pair him up with. When Alva came out, this made him one of the few hunters that has a connection to a survivor prior to the games (the only other that we know of for now being Emma and Leo). So, as every modern fandom does, people attach the 'family' sticker to them, no matter how much that does not make sense with their backstories that we have for now.
So, we have a ship hated by the fandom and people putting 'family' label on them.
What could possibly go wrong when someone decides to like an Alva ship with another character? (sarcasm)
This is, unfortunately, how current fandom climate works. People will always look at characters, decide to call the ship 'problematic' and their first reaction to that is to make a ship with one of them that's a 'healthy' ship, whatever that means.
With Luca, this isn't that much of a problem since he has been in the game for longer, as I mentioned just now. But with Alva, it's a different story.
So let's start by looking at the first ship people latched on, Halva.
Starting this section with a very simple thing: most people who like this ship hate alvaluca. The ship is inherently a reactionary one, the one that says 'this is the good Alva ship!' Now, we can go into the story on how mischaracterised Alva is in this ship, how most people lach into pre-accident Alva even though that's not the Alva we have right now and how the ship itself often falls into the nuclear family type of a ship that people use and make them Luca's dads, but that not why we are here. I could make a whole post about it though. In a short summary, Alva gets heavily mischaracterised here, and there are a lot of issues on how people try to portray it. I will even go as far as saying that most people maybe don't even like the ship because they truly do but because it's the 'better' ship and the 'healthy' one, even though that's not even remotely close to the truth.
Now, there are people who like both ships. This explanation also requireds a lot of explaining that goes into character dissection, but we don't have time for that. But some people do like both. Not the majority though.
The behavior of halva shippers usually leaves alvaluca shippers to hate the said ship. Even if in reality it might even be their cup of tea and they would enjoy it, having shippers constantly hate on them and send them death threats, one would not want to be associated with such people.
But what about other ships? It makes sense for people to hate halva, but why would they hate other Alva ships?
Well, pretty much the same reason.
Any Alva ship that doesn't involve Luca is a 'safe' and 'good' ship, or how some people like to say 'healthy' ship. Personally, the concept of 'healthy' ships on fiction is dumb to me. If I like something that's considered problematic, I will still like it because it's just that, fiction. But, in a fandom that has a lot of children, sometimes ones that are getting exposed to fandom for the first time... well that's a recipe for a disaster.
So, a person whose sick of their ship being hated on so much, now sees the 'alternative, better' ship, their first reaction might not be 'this ship seems interesting' but will rather be 'great, another "better and healthier" ship for people to use to shit on mine 😒'
It is inherently a defensive stance, more often than not. After being the target for harassment, any other ship with Alva is now seen as the 'better' option for people to have instead of liking alvaluca. It is a very sad thing to see, especially as someone who likes multiple ships and does consider himself a multishipper. The fandom climate has taken a strong ship towards harassment instead of just ignoring things and it's very sad to see people flat out avoid ship with a character they like because of it.
However,
this doesn't mean that every person's reaction to the ship like that is from the right place. I do think it's fine to critique the way people might react to something, especially with a way they react to it.
I have seen people use things like 'Alva would hate (insert another character) if the met in canon' , 'this is just a safe vanilla ship it has no flavor' or even worse, 'it doesn't make sense'
let's start with the first one
Alva would hate (insert another character) if the met in canon
We don't know that. So far, our information on Alva is limited, only having Luca's birthday letters, Ann's character day letters, their trailers and his deductions. I doubt we'll get that much from his character day letter too, since it is the first one. We don't fully know his stance on a lot of things. Saying blanket statements like these is kinda dumb. And honestly, even if that was true, nothing is stopping people from shipping them. Enemies to lovers is a thing.
this is just a safe vanilla ship it has no flavor
This is a trap I see a lot of people who mostly like problematic ships fall into. I say this because I also sometimes fall into this mindset. So what if it's a vanilla ship? Some people like that! Hell, I like that even if most of my stuff is very questionable! You can take my vanilla cute ships out of my cold dead hands. So what if people like Alva and Burke or Alva and Joseph? let people have their old man yaoi!
This also goes with the fact that people are often expected to either only like problematic ships or only non-problematic ones. It's something really weird I've noticed, especially since 2020 and onwards when it comes to fandom spaces. Like, you can enjoy both! You don't have to pick sides! Sometimes you want to enjoy different things and that's fine!
it doesn't make sense
Let's get one thing clear: 98% of idv ships don't make sense. Hell, the most popular ones haven't even met in canon! Saying it doesn't make sense makes you sound like an anime dudebro, for the lack of a better world. I get that we have a problem with people being shitty to the alvaluca shippers, but that doesn't mean we get to also be shitty, even if it comes from a place of self defense in this case. Don't go that low please.
Now back on track
This seems to only happen with his ships with other hunters, oddly enough. While the stigma of hunter/survivor ships does seem to be gone for the most part, people still seem to stay away from ships like those to a certain degree. These seem to mostly go under radar in Alva's case, usually unbothered by this situation.
Conclusion:
The negative gut reaction by alvaluca shippers is caused by extensive harassment, therefore any ship with Alva is considered bad as anything not alvaluca is 'good' in the eyes of the larger fandom scale. This does not mean that the reaction is something that should happen, but it has become a product of the current fandom climate. The only way to change this is pushing out the harassment that is very rampant, but this takes time, and considering idv's fandom is full of mostly younger people, this is an issue that might not get resolved easily, as sad as it is to say it out loud.
I hope this was able to clear things up at least to a certain degree! Again, I would love to see anything added to this as long as it's civil!
Have a good day everyone!
#idv#identity v#fandom#fandom discussion#not really discourse but rather explanation#keep it civil please
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KIMCHAY FIC IDEA - post-finale & reconciliation
My fav headcanon is Chay being a really good and popular writer in the WIK fandom. We know he canonically is pretty good at writing, at least where it comes to songs, so why not fics as well?
Kim gathers from one of their conversations that Chay used to write fics - Chay never actually tells him that, it's just a vague comment that slips out, but Kim becomes obsessed with finding out his account.
Insert Kim researching what's the site Chay is most likely to have posted the fics. AO3 seems like a pretty good start, and it's easier to do research on there due to the filter, so he starts going through the WIK tags on AO3 but nothing jumps out to him as an indication of having been written by Chay, so he makes a fake Twitter profile he uses to spy on his stans in the fic side of fandom (I love fics exploring kimchay interacting or at least observing WIK stans' behavior when they think they're not being watched lol - if I were famous, I'd definitely snoop around).
At one point he finds out that there's this queer male author who was really loved by WIK stans but he suddenly stopped updating fics around the time everything went to shit and that's how Kim finds Chay's AO3 and then feels guilty because he realizes that with his curiosity he just violated Chay's privacy again so he's mentally restraining himself from reading the fics (THERE ARE SO MANY THOUGH, HE'S SO CURIOUS) and at the same time he's trying to find the right moment to confess to Chay.
Meanwhile, you have Chay being fully aware of Kim snooping around to find his account: dropping the hint about him writing fics was his way of torturing Kim because he knows how his boyfriend is hella curious, and also, they haven't gone... all the way yet, Kim being hesitant because of reasons he's not telling Chay because he hasn't become a pro at that communication thing overnight, and Chay knew that his virginity might've been one of the reasons of Kim's hesitancy because Kim still viewed Chay as this pure delicate flower to cherish and protect.
So Chay had to find a way to make Kim understand how much he wants Kim without bringing up the conversation himself (it's always Chay initiating important steps in their relationship damn it! He needed Kim to start opening his mouth for once), so he sent Kim on this chase and enjoyed watching Kim become all cat-focused on the pray in his research and then squirming when he had to find a way to tell Chay about it, thinking Chay wasn't aware.
Eventually, Kim confesses, Chay has a good laugh at seeing Kim being squirmy, Kim is confused at Chay being nonchalant about it, Chay explains that at this point, Kim already knows Chay was infatuated with WIK back then after seeing his WIK shrine and still asking Chay to write him a love song
"you know? That I saw that?"
"I mean, it was a reasonable conclusion to reach after I found out that you were spying on me. I was able to connect some dots, considering some of the red flags I chose to ignore. It was that time you told me you'd stay behind at home while I went to buy the noodles, wasn't it? I'm not upset about it, now, even though I was pretty embarrassed when I realized it."
and then he gives Kim blanket permission to read his fics, if he's curious and comfortable doing it because
"Most of them are about you anyway, so if anything, you have a right to read whatever you want, especially if it's inspired by you"
an unsuspecting Kim having no idea what he was getting himself into.
That's how Kim's brain gets melted by surprisingly well-written, wild, creative, and horny af smut involving his public persona. Of course, I'd enjoy reading about his reactions to certain fics, perhaps some passages from fics being directly quoted.
Imagine Kim being both hot and bothered, and also pleasantly surprised by the creativity of some of the fics AND the length of many of them. You just know someone as determined and emotionally self-aware, but introverted, as Chay would have IDEAS and would therefore be serving variety, both of the "Canon Compliant" type and the AUs, some fics being WIK/Reader or WIK/other celebs, some being WIK centric introspection (it's shocking how well Chay unknowingly read into him beyond his persona at some points, but perhaps it shouldn't be, as Chay has demonstrated many times that he can pick up on a lot of stuff, just chooses to ignore what doesn't serve to him in that moment); some fics are long af, with a compelling plot (his boyfriend should seriously consider writing a novel), others being fluffy oneshots at first and then smutty ones later on when Chay's hormones fully hit, and you can see Chay's writing improving exponentially between when he started, like 2 years prior, and the last fics.
And all the while, Kim picks up on all these fantasies, noticing which fics were Chay exploring wild shit just because it's fiction and fiction is a safe haven of exploration (or a way to indirectly vent about what was going on in his life - those were the fics where Chay went towards exploring darker themes), and which fics show patterns of Chay's genuine preferences - and boy, does Kim learn a lot from that, like how horny his boyfriend could be and which of Kim's traits he used to obsess over the most (various physical traits aside, like hands and collarbones and lips, Kim's heart softens each time Chay takes his time describing how beautiful WIK's smile and laugh are or how the person being with WIK loved being embraced by him and hearing his quiet comforting voice rumbling in his chest, all things he encounters often in Chay's writing, even the most pwp of fics, during the after-care).
After Kim manages to emerge out of the rabbit hole (it took him a while, there was a lot of material, okay?), after a few weeks of unresolved sexual tension and him becoming aware of another of Chay's many sides, they finally properly talk about intimacy, about their experiences or lack thereof
(Is Kim as experienced as people assume he is or is he a virgin, actually? - I like both takes tbh. We know he's canonically not experienced in feelings and intimacy, but on the sexual side, it can be either. To me, he can either have slept around a lot, no strings attached, or not have had sex at all/just never went all the way, because he's paranoid about leaving himself vulnerable in any way)
They openly talk about their boundaries, and then? They start exploring.
Sometimes inspired by some of Chay's fic scenarios that Kim was particularly captivated by.
Okay, so who is gonna write this kimchay long-fic for me? Who's gonna be my savior? You'd have my lifetime devotion, promise.
(the only request is please, if you do end up writing something inspired by this, don't refer to Kim as mafia prince or any of that mafia-romanticizing crap. The dude tried to get away from that world exactly because he knows it's fucked up and he himself could go on a dark path if he stuck around. It's not an aesthetic for him or for anybody in the show really, it's a life of criminality and violence he was born into, and the show doesn't romanticize it either even while exploring relationships within that world. Porsche wanted nothing do to with all that at first and he wanted his brother to stay away from it after he himself was forced to be part of it due to the circumstances - you think that's the sign of someone who views the mafia as an aesthetic? as something cool and suave? There's a difference between treating romance within a dark context and romanticizing said dark context, which some people in the fandom do.)
PSA: I have no time to look up typos and English isn't my first language so bear that in mind when reading this whole post lol.
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Anon mentioned this to teaveetamer, but I'll say it here as well: the problem with Edelstans is that they lack "integrity". Integrity is the idea that whatever rules of morality or behavior we believe in, they must apply "just as strongly" to ourselves and those we admire as they apply to our enemies and those we hate. To make an analogy, if we get angry when "the opposing team cheats", we must also get angry when OUR team cheats. But Edelstans have no "rules of morality where Our Team Loses."
I do think that describing these groups as "teams" that all follow the same rules internally is already misleading. As it is I've been largely staying out of these recent back-and-forths because I don't believe my contributions would be helpful. I'm pretty well known for laughing off trolls; even when they're calling me a groomer or a necrophile or whatever else I can hardly be bothered to be insulted or to even care beyond a brief bit of humor at their expense sometimes. That's just not the sort of energy that would be very welcome for people who do feel hurt or insulted or unsafe in fandom because of trolling and harassment. Incidentally, this also doubles as an illustration about my point about us not all having the same reaction even if we happen to share some fandom opinions.
More to your point though, I have seen instances on their Discord of attempting to combat certain bad actors...typically not for the best reasons, but at least that's something. There's also been some pretty heated arguments from within their own group that don't seem to have resolved well at all - some of which have been remarked on by others here, in cases where Edelstans will turn their own logic on one another as soon as there's a drastic enough disagreement. (This is, coincidentally, also a commonly observed phenomenon among anti groups in various fandoms.) Some hypocrisy is to be expected, as in all in-group, out-group scenarios, because so long as it can be rationalized it won't register as hypocrisy except to those on the outside. I prefer though not to try diagnosing a bunch of strangers - many of whom have never even spoken to me - especially since they don't like or care about me in the slightest, and so I'll leave it at that.
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Hi!
For all the NS/SN fics thing, I completely agree with you. I think the problem is that some people don’t actually understand how sex works. Your personality doesn’t influence your sexual preferences… Or even your apparence. So claiming thing like "Sasuke/Naruto is clearly a bottom because he is more feminine" or "Naruto/Sasuke is much more possessive than the other, it’s a top behavior" doesn’t make any sens.
Personally, I’d said I prefer NS, simply because I’ve found more of bad written, anti Sasuke SN fanfictions than good written ones. I don’t like the way either either Sasuke or Naruto are portrayed in most of SN fanfictions I’ve read. Sasuke is a just a cold, perverted bastard and Naruto is a crying little cutie pie. It made me uncomfortable, because in some SN fics, I had the feelings that Sasuke was an adult and that Naruto was a child.
But I can say the same with NS characterization. In some fanfictions, Naruto is just a dumb sunshine and Sasuke is just a blushing tsundere. And, even it’s a part of their personality… They’re so much more than that. I still like NS fanfictions more, because the majority of them treat Sasuke like an actual human and not like a monster. And I’ve seen sooooo much SN fonctions bashing Sasuke and praising Naruto. I’ve seen much less NS fanfictions bashing Naruto, on the other hand… I mean, most of the people in the Naruto fandom like Naruto’s character, so…
But of course, I don’t want to generalize anything! It’s just what I’ve observed.
Have a good day 💕
Hmm... Makes Sense and you're totally right.
Again, My whole gripe about that discourse and especially my annoyance towards that one side (you know which one, right??) is that CRINGEWORTHY HYPOCRISY & BASELESS SELF-ENTITLEMENT & TOXIC BULLYING...
You could actually question me like, "Hmmm... You said you don't care about fanfiction portrayals of N and S and yet why you get annoyed over this discourse... You could simply ignore them."
Well, I was doing that for the entire time and if I am being honest I was more oblivious to it and never wanted to involve myself in it. And I would've stayed that way had that not muddy the canon portrayals and write-ups.
Last year around March, I was a total newb to this Fandom. At that time, I was simply following tumblr blogs and there were some posts about fanfictions, which I never quite understood what it meant. I simply scrolled them down and moved on.
Even after I started to write Asks, I was thoroughly oblivious about it. For example, Look at this Asker's ask... [Link].... That post was from September 2021... You could see that I have no idea as to what the Asker was asking about. All I know was they were talking about some random fanfiction portrayal and I responded with Canon basis. The Asker was saying Sasuke is Asexual... I said, Canon and Kishimoto's posters says otherwise.
And a month later in October 2021, I got this another one... [Link]... And my first reaction was like, "...WTF... Noooo". Back then I didn't know which faction of SNS this ask came from. I simply answered it with canon basis. But somehow, that ask negatively stayed in my mind... forever.
And then I came across a string of very irritating posts which portrayed Sasuke as this Vulnerable, Insecure, Aloof, Non Obsessive, Non Possessive, Goal Oriented guy whom Naruto forced him into submission for Sasuke's own good... Naruto was the one who chased Sasuke (romantically and for his sexual desire)... But all of a sudden Naruto rejected Sasuke's non-verbal confession, broke his poor little uwu heart and became a scumbag.
This above portrayal proves Sasuke was forced to fall in Love with Naruto because Naruto chased him....
And when I came across these posts... I kept on reminded of that ask which stayed in my mind negatively..... Then I realized "Wait a minute!!! These portrayals of Sasuke are alllllllll from a certain faction of SNS fandom and it's all horribly wrong.. Why is that???". And when I digged deep, I felt that they are making Sasuke into a version of some vulnerable and difficult woman who needs constant reassurance.
Basically NS bottomline is like a girl (Yeah, Sasuke's shipping self inserts are majorly girls, that's why I used the word Girl) saying, "I have mental issues... I have goals... I need space... Can you tolerate me??? Can you deal with me??? Can you care for me??? Can you devote yourself for me???"
See... It's all about me me me me... Just like how Sakura makes it all about herself in SS. There's literally no care about Naruto and his character.
That's when I understood... "These guys are fucking cringe worthy and annoyingly hypocritic... Is this what this 'Division of Fandom' all about??? These guys hide under the In-Canon BS but clearly carry a stupid agenda and blame the other side for OOC portrayal when in reality they are also doing the same thing."
They accuse the other side for multi-shipping Naruto... Which is fair... Even I am not a fan of it... But they also make Sasuke into a cum-dumpster by shipping him with Kakashi, Itachi, Orochimaru, Jugo and every other guys with stick.
If Hypocrisy and Cringeness is one side... Then Intentionally Bullying, Name calling, Stalking and Openly hating Naruto but still shipping SNS is the another side. Of course, I have 4 different ugly discourse tumblr links that happened at 4 different periods of time to prove it... which I don't want to attach it here. But you are welcome to Direct Message me and I will be glad to send you those links to see it for yourself.
Yes, Sasuke hate is real... But that was actually before 4 or 5 years ago though. Now... Naruto hate is the reality... And I am clearly seeing it from that one side (most of the times).
That's why I am being very vocal about it... My annoyance doesn't stems from the Portrayal of N and S in any of the sides. Truly. My annoyance stems from "How are you any different?? Why are you bullying?? Are you any better? And why do you bring Fan fiction portrayal into Canon?? Why do you hate Naruto and ship him with your self-insert character Sasuke??"
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people in this fandom tend to have a knee jerk reaction whenever there's discussions of neg like 😭 we're lowkey just discussing the observable difference in their public relationship. just bc the world isn't ending doesn't mean y'all have to act like it's sunshine and rainbows, there's an in between
Ifl it CAN get weird but just pointing some stuff about two celebrities is normal human behavior
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Ask on Army-Multi Behaviours and K-pop Fan Archetypes Related to ARMYs and BTS (Repost)
Anonymous: Bpp, I don't understand people who call themselves fans but instinctively reach for the least charitable interpretation when something comes up about their supposed faves. They remind me of one American friend who thinks it's a personality trait to complain all the time. Even about the most harmless things. And my Republican step-grandma who only comments on anything to criticize it. I wonder what their state of mind is like on a normal day, because their first reaction every single time is negative. And it's not just 'unpopular opinions' but just weirdly glossing over easy, accessible, and plausible realities that would explain something before coming here to complain, again. Does it strike you as weird when you see things like this?
It's weird to choose to remain in a space you cannot stop criticizing, a space you refuse to see anything good about, and a space you make no effort to partake in positively. It's not even critical inquiry because half their takes are uninformed. Their 'hot takes' are entertaining to read but at the same time they seem so sad. I mean who does that? The person I saw doing that this afternoon stans another kpop group and doesn't put nearly the same scrutiny as she puts on BTS and armys on her real favorite group that she comments on only to talk about shipping and it's like, don't they see it's obvious what they are?
**
Hi Anon,
You’re going to have to give me more to work with because I don’t traffic in indirects. But in any case, I guess welcome to the world and seeing how some people do things. As I’ve said in another post, if you’re a critical person, k-pop is the perfect genre for you cause you’ll never run out of things to be critical about, and you’ll always have a willing audience to affirm your gripes. No other genre elevates the opinions of random fans like k-pop lmao. I’m not American but even where I live I know people who like being contrarian. I don’t mind it because multiple perspectives are usually a good thing, so long as everyone gets their say and all aspects are considered fairly. This doesn’t happen often on the internet because nobody changes their minds here, but it’s typically a good sign to see people civilly conveying they think.
For example, I like that people are able to point out they find it excessive when fans freak out about COVID announcements because it’s true some behaviors border on irrational (even if you’re upset about it what good does crying all day do?), and I like it when other people can explain why they’re legitimately as worried as they feel. It’s called conversation. Or as close as one can get to that on Tumblr.
The rest of what you described just sounds like a regular k-poppie or multi as relates to BTS. It’s not about whether they listen to more than one artist. In fact, usually these sorts of people don’t really listen to music that much at all. It’s that they have a group they actually stan that’s not BTS, and usually use BTS and/or ARMYs as the crutch to comment on all they find wrong with k-pop, of which the group they actually stan of course has it’s own examples of. In my experience, those other groups/fandoms even have it worse than BTS or ARMYs, but again, in k-pop, nobody is actually concerned about the underlying issues. It’s about the subject. Normally I’d say BTS is the most prominent social phenomenon right now so of course everyone and their momma will be talking about them in every context, but this is a pattern I’ve observed with k-pop stans even before BTS became really famous. Like being hypercritical of BTS / ARMYs is the most consistent feature of a k-pop stan and it’s been like this for as long as I can remember loool.
It’s just what it is and I’m so used to it I hardly even notice it these days. I suggest you get used to it too because this is one thing that will definitely not change.
Originally posted: March 29th, 2022 9:32am
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