#if anyone argues here in bad faith feel free to use this post as a free block list
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What is your opinion on terf blocklists, where every one on there at the time had clear and intentional radfem beliefs pushing shitty ideas about trans people and easily identifiable as to what exactly they believe via what they say and circulate and who they constantly reblog shitty things about trans people from?
I promise this is a genuine good faith question; I want to understand if the thing I've been taught be others to do with the purported intention of eliminating platforms for terfs to protect ourselves and others is actually helpful or if that also has far reaching consequences I hadn't considered before. I'm trying to think about it but struggling with the idea I got taught to do them/follow them (blocklists) for being to identify correctly and block, not harass. But do the harms of encouraging that approach actually outweigh the benefits and that doesn't change even if the blocklist is for actual bigots?
Again, genuine question. Trying to learn.
I think the problem here is less in how a blocklist is constructed; it's not hard to imagine that a list can be made under strict enough criteria, with enough careful vetting, to contain only Genuinely Bad People- or at least people who would not object to being placed in the category of that list. It's also not hard to come up with categories of people that feel morally reprehensible enough, and unattached from any marginalized identity enough, to be "safe" to target: it would be absurd to argue against a "Nazi blocklist" that contains only self-proclaimed Nazis.
The problem also isn't really in how blocklists are intended to be used; it's pretty fair that someone might want a list of people to block pre-emptively in order to avoid harassment, particularly when that harassment is bigoted. It's not hard to imagine that someone making such a list is doing so with the intent that it only be used for blocking, and that they might even make an effort to say as much in the post. And at that point, is it really their fault if someone goes against their clearly-stated wishes?
The problem is that a blocklist is, by fundamental design, "free research". It's put forth entirely so other people do not have to do their own research, which means the entire premise discourages people from doing that research.
You aren't offering up a list of people that others should go look into and form their own opinion about, you're offering up a list of people you already did the research on so people can copy/paste and be done with it. It would be counterproductive- and frankly silly- to post a blocklist with some "but make sure to double check these yourself!" disclaimer, because like, that's not the point of the list. Nobody is going to do that. Even if they did, they're looking into these people under the assumption that there is something to find; everything is going to look suspicious in a way it never would have without that framing.
The question isn't whether a blocklist can be made with good intentions and due diligence; the question is whether it can be made with ill intent or sloppy execution, whether anyone can tell the difference, how likely they are to actually check, what you're doing with that list, and what impact your choices have.
If I make a list, the message I send is, "you can trust me. I did the research, I did it right, and this is a Good Blocklist. If you trust me, you should trust this list."
If I reblog a blocklist, the message I send is, "I trust this list. I may have even checked it myself. This is a Good Blocklist. If you trust me, you should trust this list."
The majority of the people who follow me probably believe they can trust me to some extent; oftentimes, people just trust that whatever is on their dashboard is trustworthy, because someone they follow put it there. Those are their friends, and their friends are trustworthy!
This should make you nervous. You should not be comfortable with this. People make mistakes all the time, and even if they did do the research (it's so much more likely that they did not, especially if they're not the original creator), someone else's standards of what kind of person "deserves" to be on a list like that are very likely different from your's. Are you going to double check every single name on that list yourself?
Well, if the accusation is bad enough, probably not. Especially if the accusation is something like "Nazi" or "TERF". And if you do start checking, how likely are you to check every single name? If the first 3 or 5 seem to check out, will you bother with the other 50 on the list?
What if OP hid someone in that list who doesn't belong there; someone they just have a personal grudge against? What if OP defines "TERF" to mean "anyone I assume doesn't think trans women are the most oppressed", and after the first 15 actual TERFs, the list is just a bunch of transmascs- many of whom don't even disagree with OP in the first place? What if they define "TERF" to include anyone who has ever been a TERF, and one of the people on that list is a trans person that has been rumored- without any foundation or grain of truth whatsoever- to have once been a TERF?
Will you know? Will you check? Even if someone you trust reblogs it? Even if someone you trust made it?
A blocklist may not have the same kind of obviously punitive intent as a callout post does, but it's a tool from the same toolbox. People think callout posts are about "safety", too. Lots of people also think that about the criminal justice system, about prisons, about the death penalty.
The question is not whether that could be true, or whether there could be a world in which justice is administered correctly with these tools. The question is whether it could fail, and who it hurts when it does.
Who can abuse this system? How easy is it to do so? Who is most likely to be hurt; is it the intended target, or people who are already disempowered by our systems and society?
What is the best way to go about this?
Even done correctly, a blocklist is not the most effective tool here: people can remake their blogs, change urls, and often have sockpuppets ready to go anyway. The list is rendered useless and inert as soon as enough people change their strategies to evade it. A more effective tool is education; teaching people how to recognize a TERF, or TERF ideology, on their own. Teaching them why those ideas are problematic. Encouraging them to block and disengage, and teaching them why engaging is harmful and counterproductive. Talking about de-radicalization, cult recruitment and radicalization tactics, and how to fight this epidemic.
Telling people what to think does not solve the problem, but teaching them how to be critical might.
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There is a Rampant and Vicious Cycle in the Online Left That Needs to Be Addressed
Every leftist needs to understand that not every proclaimed leftist is a safe person or one that is acting in good faith. Many people in this sphere --even if they are minorities themselves-- are Abusers. Let me be clear: they are Abusers REGARDLESS of --NOT because of-- them being a minority. Despite this, many of them have weaponized their standing as a minority in order to get away with their behavior and achieve what they see as some form of power and control over others.
Let me be clear. I am referring to those that:
Manipulate and lie about pressing situations (especially when it's to harm another person or demographic)
Excessively use idpol to either elevate themselves to holier than thou levels ("listen to ___ people but only when it's something I agree with, which just so happens to devolve from constructive change to making others grovel and plead forgiveness endlessly before me") or belittle others (ie their skin color, gender, queerness, disability, neurodivergence, religion, age, etc.) in order to discount their point or not treat them as equal human beings; yes, even if their skin tone is white or if they are men, abuse does not have to be backed up by systemic issues in order to be abusive or at the very least harmful (sidenote: this does not apply to people talking about their experiences as a minority that is otherwise not experienced or understood by others, the issue I'm pointing out is when it's twisted to cover everything not directly tied to their identity and proclaim themselves as the only ones allowed to be the voice of reason, therefore shutting up everyone else and to avoid any constructive criticism or discussion)
Act on rage and at times even trauma to bring forth harmful ideals (ex: truly hating every person of a demographic, wishing for a genocide, making actual death or rape threats towards someone or a group, conversion, etc)(sidenote: I'm not discounting those that have trauma and even have harmful thoughts, just please seek help and understand that it is not healthy nor sustainable to paint or alter reality to be in line with what trauma makes you believe)
Actively try to get others they don't agree with to either permanently leave the internet or commit suicide and even celebrate when either happens
Excessively test others on their "purity" on unachievable standards to the detriment of everyone and Leftism as a whole (purity culture is fueled by christian culture in order to disguise doomerism, accepting defeat when change is not possible, of which is the very thing that will kill leftism)
Infight over weird made up issues (remember how divide and conquer is a war strategy? To split hairs and discount others for non-issues is to do the work of conservatives and nazis for them)
Shut down people or discussions over minor slights such as using an incorrect word/phrasing or any numerous perceived mistakes (example I've seen here: berating a person with schizophrenia (or a trans person or any other minority) for using a derogatory term for themselves when they're talking about how everyone else is speaking over them and not listening), ignoring the hypocrisy or not taking into account any number of mundane causes such as non-native english speakers, generational gaps, being in the process of learning (either recovering from harmful beliefs or simple ignorance), using those terms to prove a point (such as that example I mentioned above), neurodivergence, etc.
Not letting others talk about their experiences of oppression when those experiences don't match theirs, instead opting to call those people bigoted for contrived reasons
A rejection of nuance, intersectionalism, and even reality to better suit their goals (ex: claiming that every trans man benefits from the patriarchy and can never experience misogyny)
Misuse of therapy speak and terminology in order to water down those terms and render them near meaningless so they can weaponize them under the pretense of their original use (ex: gaslighting), or to cut off any need to connect or sympathize with other human beings and instead speak to them like a PR message (refer to this video by Zena and Poppy for reference)
They never speak on true leftist/progressive ideals or positive change, they only engage in destructive discourse or any behavior listed above
Making baseless dangerous accusations towards someone they don't like. Before you go harr harr you're doing that, I'm not calling out any specific person and am merely listing dangerous behaviors I've seen people here act out. What I am referring to are when someone casually calls someone specific a predator (or whatever else) with absolutely zero proof and expecting everyone to believe them no questions asked. This has been shown to ruin people's lives
Any other similar behaviors not included in this list (as well as classic logical fallacies), but what I've mentioned above should paint you a good picture
Every example I've pointed out were REAL EVENTS I've seen from people that proclaim themselves as leftists or even just progressive, and sometimes are even minorities themselves (some even infight against their own communities using the behaviors listed above, often out of internalized bigotry)(an example of a real event that happened here recently were when several people were making rape threats towards a trans man by the username of @a-faggot-with-opinions). To be blunt, I'm pointing out exclusionism in practically every form, asexual discourse, transandrophobia, TERFs/radfems, TEHMs, tankies, "cornbreadtube", nationalists and ethnonationalists, and all else I don't have the terminology for
For many of the people that fall under that bullet list I would hesitate to even refer to them as leftist or progressive, as they never seem to actually show they act on it or even believe in it, only making an appearance in those communities for their own destructive personal gain; hell, often times they have ideals that directly go against what those communities stand for! Examples include TERFs with white supremacist beliefs, transandrophobes that are misogynistic, ethnonationalists that are antisemitic, puritans that are ableist, the list goes on forever. Once you know what to look for, you can see the hidden or overt bigotry behind their false "progressive" statements
No one is infallible
No one is better than everyone else
You are not immune to propaganda
No one is immune from behaving abusively
These people are dangerous, whether they actually qualify as abusers --as I've been referring to them as such for brevity and impact-- or are people that are engaging in hurtful or fully abusive behavior (use this paragraph as a disclaimer, I of course can't know if someone is an abuser in real life unless there is documented evidence of such). Regardless, they are hurting the left and are letting the right win
If you see any of these behaviors either 1) take caution if you're unsure, 2) block them, or 3) if you have the fortitude, call them out. Either way, use your best judgement and think for yourself (or discuss with good faith leftists if you're uncertain). And remember, often times (albeit not always) they are actually fully aware of their disgusting behavior and are choosing to act maliciously, not ignorantly.
Stay safe, log off, do what you can to support your local community and leftism as a whole, don't let these people distract from the real issues at hand.
Have empathy, if you don't have empathy then act in compassion, if you don't or refuse to do either please do not engage in politics. Misanthropy has no place in matters concerning humanity.
And remember: we have to stand together in unity so we can create a better future for all
#politics#leftism#online left#discourse#tw abuse#tw rape mention#tw genocide mention#tw bigotry#racism#transphobia#transandrophobia#purity culture#vent#this goes for several issues I haven't mentioned whether due to a lack of proper wordage or expertise due to not being part of those groups#I'm a non-native english speaker who is autistic be aware of that if I do misphrase something#Poppy and Zena: Wholesome Degenerates is an excellent youtube channel please check them out#if anyone argues here in bad faith feel free to use this post as a free block list#had so much to say but now I can get back to shitposting les go
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The more I try to get involved in the tumblr NPD community, the more obvious it becomes that we have a serious problem. This community is extremely hostile toward endogenic systems. Now, I'm well aware that many of you want this to be the case, and see no problem with it. This post is for you.
If your justification for hating and excluding endogenics is because "science says it's not possible", you're wrong. Here is a list of professionals acknowledging the existence of endogenic and/or nondisordered systems. Here is a list of studies into non-traumagenic causes of plurality. It's true that CDDs have a high correlation with childhood trauma, and I honestly believe that the vast majority of the time trauma is the cause of them. However, correlation does not equal causation, and belief is not the same as fact. I cannot, in good faith, argue that it's impossible for endogenic systems to exist. For one thing, the vast majority of endogenic systems aren't claiming to have a CDD at all. And the ones who do typically blame trauma for the CDD itself, they simply believe that their plurality has a different cause.
If your justification for hating and excluding endogenics is that "they do [insert bad behavior here]", you're a hypocrite. That's the same logic narcissistic abuse believers use against us. It's true that there are some endogenic systems who behave badly, just as it's true that there are some narcissists who behave badly. However, you don't get to brand an entire group as acceptable targets of ostracization and harassment just because some members of that group are awful. It's not okay when they do it to us, and it's not okay for us to turn around and to it to anyone else. Respectability politics will not save us.
I'm not saying that I don't understand why this community is hostile to endogenics, because I do. Both the CDD community and the NPD community have latched onto the explanation of "I'm like this because of trauma and therefore your attacks on me are invalid", so it makes sense that this would morph into hostility toward, and exclusion of, anyone claiming to have the same or a similar experience for any non-trauma reason. It feels like an attack on your own validity, but it isn't. Your brain works the way it does, and people need to accept and accommodate that no matter the cause.
That being said, being understandable doesn't make a behavior acceptable. We will never defeat ableism by throwing people we don't like to the wolves. We will never be able to tear down any system of oppression by casting out anyone who fails to meet an arbitrary standard of validity. There is not any one of us that will be free until every single one of us is free.
That includes endogenic systems. It includes people whose NPD didn't come from trauma. It includes every single mentally ill and neurodivergent person who fails to fit the mold created by a psychiatric system that would sooner grind us under its heel than allow us to have true self-determination and autonomy. Endogenic systems, especially those with NPD, deserve better.
We're shooting ourselves in the foot if we can't do right by them, so get your shit together
#narcissistic soliloquizing#npd safe#actually npd#actually narcissistic#endo safe#i will be blocking liberally so behave yourselves in the notes
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what's neo wicca and what's wrong with it?
I want to start off this answer by saying I didn't say anything was wrong with it inherently. I added "NeoWiccans" to that list in my pinned post, because I kept posting things that I do in my practice -- a practice that is and always has been folk magic / folk conjuration in nature -- and would have self-labeling NeoWiccans argue with me in the comments. Of my own post. On my own blog. And frankly, I got sick of it.
I don't think the umbrella of NeoWiccans are bad, when I say "NeoWiccan" or use the royal "they," I am referring specifically to NeoWiccans I've interacted with in the past and what they have done/do.
Now that I've cleared that up, when I (personally) use the word "NeoWiccan" on this blog I'm referring to everything aside from the "traditional Wiccan" branches, i.e. anything that is considered "Wicca" and is not strictly Gardnerian or Alexandrian. While Gardnerian and Alexandrian schools of Wicca have strict rules, protocols, and ways of doing things, NeoWiccans are similar to self-named "eclectic witches" and take from lots of schools of thought to build their practice. And like I said that isn't inherently a bad thing.
If you were looking for a simple answer that's where the simplicity stops. You're free to take the answer "NeoWicca is X, Y, and Z, and there's nothing wrong with it.*" and then you don't have to read the rest of this.
EDITED: For the record, I went and fixed the organization of that bottom part to solve any further miscommunications. Thanks a bunch for the ask, and the opportunity to speak my piece.
(* But if you're interested in the nuance, then stick around.) [cont. under the cut.]
If you're a NeoWiccan practitioner, and you're reading this, please make sure you're reading this in good faith. I am not in any way trying to shit on anyone's beliefs or practices -- or even anyone in particular. If you can read criticism from the outside of your practice and then keep scrolling, feel free to keep reading.
And if you can't. Well. Please don't send me anything too nasty. Remember the Threefold Law applies to Tumblr Asks, too.
(For legal reasons the above was a joke. But seriously don't be mean. Deleting asks takes so much time, and I only have the same 24 hours in a day that you do.)
[cont.] But it's what led to most of what, I -- a folk charmer who has never and will never practice any flavor of Wicca, see from the outside of NeoWiccan practice looking in, as a problem.
Most of my problem lies in the cultural appropriation inherent in the foundation of Wicca itself. But I'm not here to send that slaughtered horse through the meat-grinder. There have been so many more educated, better spoken, and experienced people in occult spaces discussing that particular topic that I would just say typing the words "Wicca" and "cultural appropriation" would keep anyone interested enough in that discussion busy for like a week straight. The bottom line in that are the inherent moral flaws I, personally, see in Wicca. Sure, we can also talk about the good things the Wiccan movements have done for modern witchcraft -- I am absolutely not throwing the baby out with the bath water, but I don't want to talk about that either, because that's also a proverbial horse that's been through the proverbial ringer.
(Disclaimer, the below paragraph is literally just me bitching. If you don't want to read a paragraph of me bitching about my experiences sharing the occult space, then you're free to go. No one was holding you hostage to read this post.)
And the smaller, but still just as important, part of my problem is how -- in my experience interacting with people in occult spaces -- the NeoWiccans I have attracted for no good reason seemed to argue about everything. I don't know if I just bring out the worst in those particular people -- which would suck because historically that has never been the case -- or what. But it's like every NeoWiccan person I've ever interacted with is the angriest and most argumentative person I've ever met. They argue about the history of Wicca (even though it's well-documented), they argue about verbiage used in Tumblr posts on blogs that have nothing to do with Wicca, they argue about how it's spelled "magick," they argue for their right to use white sage or why they're not making a bad decision by using it, they argue about why people don't cast a circle, they argue about the proper use of moon phases -- I could go on and on.
It might just be my praxis as a historically-fueled folk charmer coupled with my big opinions on things, but I got sick of self-identifying NeoWiccan practitioners coming onto my blog and arguing with me. So I added it to that list in my pinned post. It just so happens that shitty things like evangelicals and Neo-Nazis were also on that list before I added NeoWiccans. Nothing personal, just how the cookie crumbled, I guess.
#answered#sorry for the ramble#dont come for me lol#i delete asks sent from the mean part of peoples bodies
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Pinned Post
Who are we? Paradox System. 50-someodd members. Most of them don't bother to front.
Who is the host? You're welcome to call me Dirk, Logan or Lou. I'm also the Core. My co-host is Hal.
What is this blog? If you didn't read our bio (which is fair,) it's a sideblog separate from our main where most of our system posts will be, since I don't think it's a good idea to post about it on main.
Goofy anecdotes, art, and general comments on the plural experience will be posted here. Feel free to ask any of us anything, but no promises on answers from everyone. I (Core) will always answer questions, though. :)
Important shit:
Yes, we do have a high member count. Yes, we are fictive-heavy. We are autistic and split easily, especially when spiraling. We split a lot really close to the beginning of finding out and managing ourselves because I (the core) was incredibly stressed out. It just sort of compounded the more people showed up because it felt out of hand.
No, we are not diagnosed and are not interested in being diagnosed, but we're in dialogue with a professional who has confirmed our experiences align with DID.
This is not a safe place for syscourse. If you send me syscourse, you will be blocked.
Emoji key for posts. They will be in the tags.
Some people use typing quirks. I'll try to make sure there are warnings and translations for screen readers.
If someone says something abhorrent, please put them on blast. Normally, they are kept from doing so, but I'd like to know so I can apologize on their behalf and delete the post.
DNI / Block on sight:
Syscourse blogs
Sysmeds
People who argue in bad faith
Anyone who wants to start shit with me or a community I'm a part of
#did system#plural system#system stuff#system blog#asks open#did community#dms open#dms welcome#did osdd#system host#🧠
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Why? Because!
I replied to a post on twitter about the yearly scare tactics regarding drugs and Halloween. Someone got mad that I accused cops of lying, scaremongering, and planting evidence and wanted to know why they’d do that to millions of children.
I blocked them because it was obvious they were arguing in bad faith, but it made me think about it anyway, so here’s my answer.
Why would cops lie about drugs during Halloween?
* Because it makes them look good. It makes them sound concerned about the safety of children and implies they’re working hard to combat the “drug problem.”
* It demonizes drug addicts and makes them seem as if they’re terrible people who would deliberately prey on kids and are a menace to public safety.
* It gives them another excuse to target Black and minority individuals for drug raids.
* It scares (white) parents into thinking the cops are on their side and looking out for them. White families probably believe that anyway, but the occasional reinforcement is always good for PR.
* It makes people more compliant and less likely to question the dubious information/tactics the cops use.
* It makes you suspicious of your neighbors and less likely to trust them.
Yes, cops will plant evidence. It makes them look good at their job and gets people to believe they’re telling the truth. It also gives them an excuse to make arrests- again, mostly Black and minority individuals and almost always those who are already poor.
The best part for them is that they can pull all this bullshit without actually having to worry about it actually happening. The drugs discussed are EX-PEN-SIVE and aren’t going to be dispensed for free. They sure as fuck aren’t going to be given to little kids, who are notorious for not having bags of money at their disposal.
Also, one of the reasons the cops use to scare folks is also a reason it’s absolute BS: you can’t tell where the drugs came from (aka any of your neighbors could secretly be drug dealers). What’s the point of getting anyone- let alone a little kid- addicted to something if they won’t know where to go to get more? That’s just bad business. LOL!
So yeah. I know most people on here already know all the nuances of ACAB, but writing it down makes me feel better, so there.
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this blog is a safe place
this blog is safe for queers of all kinds: it is safe for gay men and lesbians, for bi and pan people, for aro and ace people, for allosexual aromantics and alloromantic asexuals, for polyamorous people, for trans people and nonbinary people, agender and pangender and genderfluid and others i haven’t heard of, for he/him women and she/her men, for cis people with unconventional gender presentation who are tired of being called ‘eggs’, for two-spirit people, and probably for someone else i haven’t thought of.
this blog is safe for people of all faiths and races and nationalities. it is safe for people white or black, asian, indian, hispanic, the natives peoples of all places, and anyone else i may have missed. for people atheist, christian, jewish, muslim, hindu, buddhist, sikh, for believers of obscure mysticisms and religions most think of as old mythology, and so on.
this blog will never condemn ordinary people for the actions of the governments that have authority over them or the religious institutions that have indoctrinated them. i have no ill will for the collective populaces or the individual people of red states and conservative nations, or common believers of historically destructive christian denominations and the like (i can’t just condemn every catholic now, can i?). some people are kind gears in cruel machines.
this blog is safe for people with neurodivergences and mental illnesses that are stigmatised and demonised even among people familiar with psychiatric ableism (is there a proper term for that?). i don’t know what many of those are but suffice it to say i’m working to scrub words like ‘psychopath’ and ‘narcissist’ from my casual vocabulary.
i will not interact with bigots or exclusionists on this blog in any way. i will never subject my followers to the sight of a debate about the validity of their existence, no matter how well i think i or anyone else can defend them. this blog will not share bad opinions for the sake of mocking them, or attempt to ‘own’ someone trying to make a point that doesn’t deserve consideration to begin with.
if it’s ever necessary, i will attempt to resolve conflicts privately, where they are not seen, such as in DMs. this is civility, not cowardice. anyone trying to get me to argue with them on a public post will be given this warning once, then blocked. (not that anything like that’s ever happened to me, anyway.)
this blog does not confuse doomscrolling for activism; it will not reblog out of guilt. there is a time and place to learn about the horrors of current events and i don’t know when that time is but my silly little blog is not the place.
this blog attempts to tag common triggers and phobias* and gets the obvious ones right sometimes, but i don’t know what i’m doing so always feel free to ask for your triggers to be tagged.
this post will be edited as time goes on, as i learn new things and i remember things i’ve forgotten to mention and i think of better ways to say what i’ve already said. this post takes suggestions. i think everyone who isn’t perfectly privileged is a little bit afraid that someone will claim to be safe and inclusive but then turn around and say “no, but not you,” when it really counts. i never want to be the source of that fear. i want you to know that you (yes, you), are safe here, and what ‘safe’ means when i say it.
*i use “#[trigger] cw” as my standard syntax for these tags
...Gosh, this post needs an update. I'll work on that.
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hello, may I ask who is included in the "usual dni" part of your dni since your rentry doesn't elaborate on that? To be specific, I'm asking about m-spec gays and lesbians, as in my experience dnis have "against good faith identities" and "support good faith identities" equally often. sorry for the trouble!
ughhhhhh, okay, anon. gods, i hate answering asks like this because it makes our anxiety go crazy, but i'm the designated shit starter, so here i am.
some of us are pro m-spec gay and lesbian, and some of us aren't. some of us are neutral. same with people identifying as lesbian while being transmasc, and vice versa. we even argue about neutralshippers sometimes. that's pretty common in systems; we don't always think the same.
our dni is usually dictated by the people we think will bring us a bad rap, or discourse to us, rather than what we all specifically believe.
so, that's why we don't have those specifically on our dni. because we can't agree.
if that bothers anyone, feel free to block us. we don't mind, we know we follow/interact with people who are on both ends.
in terms of interacting with us, we'll usually block if its a big part of what you post about. but people who are chill about discourse topics are okay.
~ mod ibuki
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Alex Exposed Timeline (Long Post Warning
I'm just gonna call it that. That's a good enough title. There has been a recent small influx of people just learning this information. Especially after a recent tag from @bess-turani-marvin (ty for the mention). I did realize that something like this might be helpful for people who missed out on some of the stuff that went down.
This is all off the top of my head, so if I miss anything or misremember something. Feel free to let me know
Under the thing, because I cannot, in good faith, post something this long without one.
TL;DR: Alex Saxon is a bad person and has been for a while. Not everyone wants to believe that, but others have accepted it. It's kind of a mess. A big helping of yikes all around
December 2021 - January 2022: I, Lachesis, downloaded the shinigami eyes filter after it was recommended to me. I was playing around with the random people I saw on social media (checking them out, checking out people they follow, checking random posts, what have you), and Alex Saxon happened to be one of them.
His follow list, simply, was a mess. Many of the typical, bigotted alt-right pipeline starter pack kind of jerks were there. As I was already telling Clotho (the other mod) about how I was playing with the extension, I ended up telling her about what I found with Alex. We made the decision to create this blog and compile the google doc.
At first, we got a few mixed responses. Some people believed this was a weak attempt to "cancel him," others were thankful but disappointed because of the information, and others just ignored us. Fine. Kind of expected.
The next couple of months: Kind of quiet. Occasional hate. Again kind of expected when revealing stuff about some people's favorite actor.
June: So early June is when shit really hit the fan. Apologies for cursing, but that is the most accurate descriptor. Alex liked a tweet from a known homophobe/transphobe that he had been following for quite some time. The tweet was a video from Ricky Gervais' "comedy" special. Specifically, it was just transphobic jokes.
This is that tweet. The red is from the Shinigami Eyes filter, labeling Zuby and Ricky as known transphobes. Additionally, Aja's name is filled with TERF signals. The gender signs and the colors of the three hearts.
Alex forgot that likes are public and that his followers can see them. So when a few concerned former fans of his were on Twitter, they saw this on their timeline. Naturally, the ones who were either trans themselves or allies of the trans community were concerned. They reached out to Alex, expressing disappointment or confusion on why he would like this tweet. Many of them hoped that this was a mistake of some kind.
Instead of answering or reassurance that he has any support of his trans fans, he blocked them. He blocked anyone who called him out on this and said absolutely nothing. The only other thing he did was quietly remove his like from Zuby's tweet.
A lot of people were angry. Understandably. Some because they were upset that he would support a transphobic "joke" in any capacity and others were mad at trans people/allies for being mad at Alex. There was a lot of arguing, and people exposing their true colors.
I ended up being called to Twitter towards the end of the climax after being notified on here about what was happening. Just some of the things I saw
People being openly transphobic, as though Alex liking that tweet gave them the go-ahead to spew hate speech at any trans person they saw.
A self-proclaimed "bleeding heart liberal" who tried to play devil's advocate and actually spewed a lot of transphobic rhetoric while defending (but saying she wasn't defending) her favorite white man and telling trans people they were overreacting to a "joke" made at our expense
Some rant about cancel culture that had no point and wasn't actually relevant. Exposing the fact that anyone agreed to it, didn't actually know the difference between "cancel culture" and accountability
People pulling every excuse possible out of thin air. Such as "he was hacked" about a pattern of behavior he has been shown to routinely have over the course of 4/5 years.
People who claimed to be trans allies openly defend transphobic people and their rhetoric, claiming that it was a defense of Alex. Also continued to openly interact with said transphobes from bullet one.
Trans people who no longer felt safe in this fandom
Trans people who no longer felt safe to even watch the show or to ship nace/like Ace as a character
People condemning Alex for his behavior and explaining exactly why it is bad and harmful. Shout out to that one person who reminded me and others in the fandom that Alex once played a trans woman on a TV show, and now is supporting hate speech made against them. Putting profit over progress.
Also trying to explain that in following these people and liking their tweets he is supporting them, their ideas, and giving them a platform to spew their hatred.
Idiots who think that comedians framing bigotry as a joke isn't actually harmful. Calling what we do "Toxic PC bullshit." Failing to understand the difference between punching down and punching up. I've said it before and I'll say it again being a comedian doesn't give someone a free pass to make fun of the issues in marginalized communities
Other idiots who fail to understand that racism, transphobia, and other forms of bigotry aren't just someone wishing death/pain upon the minority they hate and enacting that wish for themselves.
Yes, that is the short version of some of the worst things that I saw. Also more or less, a summary of the things that happened.
We were also accused of causing his girlfriend to break up with him and delete any photo of him on Instagram. I guess they didn't think that we would check because we did and neither of those things is true.
Where we are now: Things are quiet. I think people have more or less chosen their side when it comes to this and stuck to them. I, and a few others, are not letting these issues be forgotten as though they were a typical fandom debate. It's more than that.
Additionally, from what I know, no one on the cast/crew/whatever has spoken up about this behavior. Such as active support of trans lives in a way that specifically is denouncing the hate speech that Alex is supporting. If anyone has done anything without a reference to Alex or his behavior, that's great.
Just for the record, I care more about spreading this information around than I do about getting him fired/replace/killed off. I do support people who do want that because they are valid for having those feelings. I don't have a horse to bet on for this. If any official action from the show is made in regards to this drama, it's their decision. Not mine. Not anyone else's.
Here is another link for the google doc for the people just coming into this situation through this post or others who just feel like looking at it.
TW for transphobia, racism, ableism, eugenics, sexism, antisemitism, and even some islamophobia.
As usual, I do encourage and support those who want to go to Alex's likes or follow list for themselves. There are a few people that are not on the google doc, but fit in with the people on there. I will give you an additional TW for domestic/spousal/child abuse from some of the people on there as well as sexual assault mention
Thank you for reading this far (if you have). Have a safe and wonderful evening
~Lachesis
#Also let me know if you don't wanna be tagged I can just remove it#alex saxon#kennedy mcmann#nancy drew#nancy drew x ace#ace ndcw#nd ace#ace nd#leah lewis#maddison jaizani#tunji kasim#ace nancy drew#nace#nancy drew cw#cw nancy drew#nancy x ace#ndcw#naceedit#I think I got all the most relevant tags#cwnd#ace x nancy#ace cwnd#the supporting people who don't want him around is in regards to Replace Ace#which if that's what they want that's what they want#replace ace#tw transphobia#tw transphobes#tw sexism#tw homophobia#tw antisemitism
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Fates: was the story as bad as people say? a response/debunk (finale part 2: worldbuilding)
Link to original post here.
> **Worldbuilding and history**
> This is something most people agree on, and /u/MaaagicMushies somehwhat recently wrote an excellent summary on why Fates' worldbuilding feels so lackluster.
I don't know what happened to that guy, but his account's been hard-deleted; i couldn't find any of his posts even through Camas. If anyone can summarize what the main points of that post were, i'd appreciate it.
> A lot of the issues with the worldbuilding are widely known. Even if people argue the continent is called Nohr and Hoshido, this is never explicitly stated and the map makes it impossible to tell where the borders for all the countries and territories are.
Irrelevant; Hoshido and Nohr are their own continents with no reason to speculate on what they should name a theoretical united territory when they've been at war with each other for thousands of years, something that would be made painfully obvious by anyone who put any amount of thought into the political climate at the start of Fates and why the full continent doesn't have a given name in or out-of-universe.
Also, explain why there being no well-defined borders are an issue; i could see it as one if it was bad enough that they didn't even bother differentiating Hoshidan territories from Nohrian ones, but they do. What would defined borders for countries whose only important piece of information is whether they've sided with the two superpowers of the world, and if so, which, aid in the worldbuilding?
> Furthermore, logistics and geography are completely ignored so as to not get in the way of the narrative. Example: Saizo and Orochi go from the Plains of Hoshido to Izumo which is far to the south, get ambushed and separated from Takumi and Ryoma *and then* run back to Hoshido all in the time it takes for Corrin to travel from the Plains of Hoshido to Fort Jinya, which is close to the Hoshidan capital.
Prove that Saizo, Orochi and Corrin started their journeys to their respective destinations at the exact same time and location. This entire criticism is based on a bad-faith assumption that Takumi, Ryoma and their retainers didn't have any sort of a head-start on Corrin, which is supported nowhere by the game.
> Takumi also falls down into the Bottomless Canyon while fighting in Izumo...which is far to the east of the Bottomless Canyon.
> Takumi: Yeah. It was insane. We ran into Nohrian troops just outside Izumo and began fighting. Ryoma and I were separated in the early stages of combat, before we had to retreat. We were outnumbered...and pushed to the brink of the Bottomless Canyon.
He literally states that the Vallite soldiers chased him all the way to the Bottomless Canyon; how in the actual fuck did no one correct you on your mistake after months of that post being up for anyone to see?
> I think it's clear the worldbuilding was either never a priority or one of the first victims on the chopping block in order to cut corners on development time. You pass through areas which are never mentioned again and never really play a role in the story at all. The end goal in all routes is effectively to get Corrin from point A to point B, and other countries and locales are mere background scenery on the way there.
Izumo's a kingdom with deep ties to religion and gods, with the best medicine and medics in the entire world, along with doing it's damnedest to stay neutral in the conflict between Hoshido and Nohr. It's ruled over by an archduke. In Birthright, the team heads there in order to follow a lead that might result in them finding out about Takumi and Ryoma's whereabouts, only to run into an ambush by Zola, who was impersonating Izama and used the country's reputation as peace-loving to lull Corrin's army into a false sense of security, and defeat him, along with freeing the real archduke from his captivity. Leo shows up to (pretend to) try and kill Zola for his failure and cowardice but is stopped by Corrin, whom Leo expresses resentment towards for betraying him and the rest of the Nohrian royal family. This sets up Zola's involvement in the story, which culminates in his betraying the team's trust and costing them a chance to end the war early, estabilishes that the Nohrian siblings are upset at Corrin for siding with Hoshido, and the entire chapter only happens because of estabilished details about Izumo and it's culture.
This is just one chapter of one out of three routes, btw; i could go on and on about the importance of the smaller countries in Fates to the story, but that would make an already overly long post even longer. Does that sound like something that's irrelevant to the plot if i can do it without any reaches?
> But why does this matter, you may ask? Well, one of the reasons is simply because it makes it feel as though characters live in a void. If there's no world for the characters to feel rooted in, it affects how we understand them and even what they can talk about with each other.
We understand more than enough about the characters and what they can talk about with each other as is relevant for the story. Your wanting more elaboration is entirely subjective, which i thought was supposed to be a bad thing.
> Let's bring up arguably the two most fleshed out worlds in the series for contrast: Tellius and Fódlan.
Skip. I'm not interested in even more nonsensical comparisons between two games that have fuck-all to do with each other and which are entirely comprised of you sucking off the games you like while misrepresenting and lying about the ones you don't; i had enough of that in the main series.
> The important part I want to highlight is how many different characters interact for many different reasons all because of the unique worldbuilding of Tellius and how it shapes and affects the conflicts that spawn from it. In Fates, there's practically no worldbuilding nor subplots, and because of that, characters have little reason to interact with each other. Most characters are tied together solely through Corrin, with little agency of their own,
I'll spare all of you and myself the tedium of listing all the subplots in Fates, and will instead call bullshit on this idiotic “most characters in Fates are tied to Corrin” point:
Of all the playable characters in Fates that have major ties to Corrin, we have: all the Royal siblings, Silas, Felicia, Jakob, Kaze, Azura, Kana, and (debatably) Flora and Gunter.
Okay, that's 16 characters who have major parts of their characterization defined by their relationship with Corrin, sounds like a pretty big number, right?
And it is, up until you realize there's 69 (heh) playable characters in Fates. 53, roughly 80%, of the playable cast of this game don't give a single fuck about Corrin, at least not more so than they do any other stranger they meet for the first time in one of their supports. I'd place good money that, pound-for-pound, Fates is one of the games in the series with the least amount of characters that give the protag any sort of special treatment.
And then you start thinking more about it, and start wondering as to why the characters with ties to Corrin have such ties, and then you start to realize that it has nothing to do with worldbuilding and everything to do with characterization; Kaze, Ryoma and Hinoka all blame themselves for not trying harder to stop Corrin from being kidnapped and want to atone for that; Silas was best friends with Corrin when they were young and wants to rekindle that friendship; the Nohrian siblings all see Corrin as their own family and hang out with them because of it; Takumi is both jealous of their skills and wants to befriend them, but is too insecure to try, lashing out at them instead in the hopes that they'll grow to dislike him and he doesn't have to risk rejection; Azura is literally their cousin and knows that they're destined to save the world one day, so the answer there is obvious; Sakura mostly just finds them comforting to be around; Felicia, Flora and Gunter practically raised them; and Kana's their child.
Objectively speaking, there's nothing wrong with any of those characters caring about Corrin as much as they do, and even if you subjectively dislike it, that's an issue you're free to blame on characterization, not worldbuilding.
Some irrelevant Three Houses shilling later and we get to this argument:
> The world of Fates, on the other hand, feels like it has barely any sense of history, and what little we know of the past is only spoken of in vague terms and the implications of that history isn't elaborated upon.
> For example, there are the more obvious, smaller things like Corrin and their kidnapping. We have no idea how old all the siblings were at the time or how much time has actually passed, which I think is curious given how it's the very foundation of the plot
The second artbook, Pellucid Crystal, confirms that the kidnapping took place 15 years prior to the start of the game and Hinoka states in her Revelation support with Camilla that she started training to get Corrin back from Nohr when she was 7, which, it's safe to assume, she would have gotten the motivation for as soon as she found out about their being taken by Nohr. Sakura also states in her A support with Corrin that she overheard maids spreading a false rumor that Nohr originally intended to kidnap her but had to settle for Corrin either by mistake or because they couldn't reach her, which, even granting the rumor being a load of bullshit, would still have needed to have some basis on reality for it to have spread, which it wouldn't have if Sakura hadn't even been born when the incident happened.
Takumi gets jealous of male Corrin in the drama CD because he's older than him and, as such, will inherit the throne if Ryoma retires or dies, due to Hoshido's patriarchal line of succession; Sakura is called little sister by Takumi; Hinoka is called big sister multiple times by Corrin, and ditto for Hinoka calling Ryoma big brother.
If we assume that the nicknames are accurate, which is pretty safe to do, along with gathering all the information in the former paragraph, then: Hinoka was 7 years old during the kidnapping, Corrin was between 6 and 3, Takumi was between 5 and 2, and Sakura was between 4 and a few months old. If you also assume that the Nohrian siblings are the same age as the Hoshidan ones (which is kinda baseless aside from the symbolic parallels and Elise being directly stated to be the youngest of them, just like Sakura, but whatever, this is just to estabilish the basic ages of the characters and the Hoshidan ones are the important ones here, which there's plenty of solid evidence to estabilish their ages for), Sakura and Elise are 15 at the youngest and 19 at the oldest, Takumi and Leo are 17 at the youngest and 20 at the oldest, Corrin is 18 at the youngest and 21 at the oldest, Hinoka and Camilla are 22, and Ryoma and Xander's ages are unknown aside from being the eldest siblings and, as such, unquantifiably older than 22.
So much for not knowing the ages of the royal siblings or when Garon killed Sumeragi, eh?
Also, i'd argue that Anankos possessing Garon was the foundation of the plot, if anything; damn-near the entirety of the story is set in motion as a direct result of Anankos gaining Garon as a host, including the kidnapping.
> This could tell us a lot about how much Hinoka and Ryoma remember of Corrin, for one.
What would knowing the exact ages of the characters change about what the audience does or doesn't know about Hinoka and Ryoma's memories of Corrin, exactly?
Besides, they give a decent enough idea of what they remember in the game itself; they say that they would often play together, that Corrin was trusting, didn't like lying, and that they showed good skills at fighting and leadership. I don't know what else about their relationship you wanted to know or why it'd be relevant to the story or characters, but there you go.
> Then there are the less obvious problems this lack of history brings. Valla was destroyed less than a generation ago, and presumably the curse came along with its destruction, yet no one alive knows about it despite the fact that at the very least Valla's royal family visited Hoshido and gave gifts? Doesn't this mean a lot of people would've died to the curse while saying, I don't know, "I sure would like to go to Valla one day" or "remember when Valla's king came to visit?".
The only thing in the game that implies Valla was still in contact with Nohrshido less than a generation ago is a line that only exists in the localization, as i pointed out on part 2 of my Revelation response. In the JP version of Rev's script, Azura only says that “a long time ago” the royal families of Nohrshido and Valla had good relations with each other, with the good-faith assumption being that, by “long time”, Azura meant “a few thousand years”, which would be more than enough time for people in the continents to forget about Valla's existence.
> There's no way only royals knew about Valla because if the royal family of Valla came to visit that'd likely be a big event involving quite a few regular people, like guards and people organizing the visit (operating under the notion that the Vallite royal family visit was secret for whatever reason; must've been hard carrying that throne without anyone spotting them).
When is it stated that the Vallite royals ever visited Nohrshido? I might be forgetting a line of dialogue somewhere, but i checked for Azura's Valla explanations in both CQ and Rev, and the only thing she says on that topic is that Nohrian and Hoshidan royalty used to visit Valla a long time ago, not the other way around.
Also, the Vallite king could have just dropped off the throne in a secure location, due to getting to choose where in the normal world they end up when traveling to and fro Valla, and sent the Hoshidan king a message telling him where to pick it up; the throne isn't in any way proof of Vallites publically going to the normal world.
> If a world doesn't have a past, it becomes that much more difficult for characters to feel rooted in that world. To borrow a good example from Three Houses, Felix would never work in another Fire Emblem world because his entire character is based around a specific event and how a specific culture replied to it. The same can be said for Soren and his identity as a Branded. This is what it means for a character to be "rooted" in their world. Do all characters need to be like this? No. But the problem is that Fates has practically no character like Felix or Soren.
I'd be very interested to see you argue for it being possible for Azura to work in another Fire Emblem world, given how much her entire character is based around a specific event and how a specific culture replied to it, namely Valla's destruction and Arete's circumstances that came as a result of it.
> The lack of worldbuilding leads to some bizarre moments in the main story proper as well. Leo talks about Nohr's "grand legacy", but all we know of Nohr is that it's a depressing place that spreads misery wherever its armies go.
Already pointed out that Leo never said that, so instead i'll question what would cause Leo to ever think of his own country as depressing or spreading misery; Nohr did what it did because it would have literally starved to death without outside help, meaning that Leo, if anything, would see it's history of conquering other nations as something to be proud of, be it because of the military strategies they employed while doing so or because of the lives they saved by gaining the resources to feed it's citizenry. At worst, Nohr's peasants are starving by the start of the game due to a lack of proper distribution of it's resources, which is something Leo and Xander are stated to solve in their endings, meaning Leo genuinely has nothing to be ashamed of in regards to Nohr, or at least nothing that he doesn't intend to fix.
> Izumo is a neutral country with a "neutrality pact" which other countries can't break, but Xander has never heard of it
Because Zola made that up on the spot; Izumo doesn't even have any sort of army to make good on the thinly-veiled death threat he gave Ryoma and Xander, meaning that the whole “violence in my country is punishable by death” schtick was created solely to try and appeal to the eldest siblings' sense of honor and lull them into a false sense of security. That's not an issue with the worldbuilding.
> and we're never told what insignificant, tiny neutral countries could do to Hoshido and Nohr.
Nothing. Which is why they aren't conquered yet; they can't do ANYTHING. They have little to no army or soldiers to offer to the main kingdoms, are situated in places with no strategic importance, and the only thing any of these tiny countries could have that could possibly make them worth the time, effort and resources to conquer would be Izumo's medicine, which it could very easily use as a deterrent by threatening to destroy it if it's ever attacked by one of the kingdoms; it's literally as simple as there not being any benefit whatsoever for Nohr or Hoshido to conquer the neutral countries.
> Another way the poor worldbuilding affects the narrative is how the maps work more like a series of one-shots rather than a complete, overarching story. There's a staggering lack of planning on the side of the protagonists and the overwhelming majority of maps have the group get caught off guard by a sudden attack.
Firstly, that's a criticism you should be levying towards Fates' plot structure, not it's worldbuilding; these are two completely different aspects of the story that have nothing to do with each other.
Secondly, the protagonists plan ahead as much as they reasonably can; in BR they plan on meeting back up with Ryoma in order to discuss a way to beat Nohr throughout the first half of the story, and when they accomplish that goal, they devise a plan to assasinate Garon, putting an end to the war, doing as well as they can while in a land they have little knowledge of and while being hounded and harrased by Iago, who knows they're there the entire time and is constantly ambushing them due to having the element of surprise; in CQ Corrin plans out almost all of their encounters ahead of time, be it directly due to their knowing the lay of the land ahead of time unlike in BR or indirectly due to their following orders from Garon, who also knows what's coming; in Rev the entire story happens because Corrin plans on convincing people to join his side to stop Anankos, and there isn't much planning they can possibly do when they get to Valla, a land they have no knowledge of, so criticizing them for that would be pretty stupid.
Thirdly, how would their planning things out more have stopped them from being ambushed? Every time they get surprise attacked, it's because of factors they couldn't possibly have known about; unless you're trying to argue that the protagonists should be omniscient, this entire point is nonsensical.
> The problem with this is simple: it removes the protagonist's agency and the world can never be an important "player" in the story.
I already debunked the “the areas you go to are irrelevant to the story” point earlier, so i'll instead ask that you explain what agency is, why it's bad for the protags to not have it, how their reacting to and foiling attempted ambushes aren't massive displays of agency in and of themselves every time they do it, what it means for the world to be a player in a story, and why it's bad for the world not to be that. You can't just go around making these grand, all-encompassing arguments that would require a *lot* of evidence to prove only to simply say it's the case, provide no evidence to support your argument, and expect people to blindly believe you.
> When you constantly move from place to place only to get ambushed, it leaves little to no time for the world to be fleshed out or for the areas they are in/move through to have a deeper purpose than provide the setting for the next battle.
Wouldn't that be an “issue” with the plot itself instead of with the team being ambushed? If you, for whatever ungodly reason, wanted the pacing of the game to get fucked over just so irrelevant lore could be exposited to the player, shouldn't you be criticizing the story for not spending more time in those locations instead of for the team being ambushed? Why do most of the criticisms here have nothing to do with Fates' worldbuilding despite being in the worldbuilding section of the post?
We also learn more than enough about most of the smaller countries, at least as far as it's relevant to the story; explain what more you wanted to know about them and why it'd be in any way important for the audience to know.
> So, now that we've established the worldbuilding is lacking and that it leads to less interesting topics the cast can talk to each other about, and that the timeline is unnecessarily vague,
If by “estabilished” you mean “made points that: are so heavily subjective it's difficult for it to even be a topic of conversation, despite shit-talking and dismissing the very conceot of thematic analysis for the exact same reason; are so vague and ill-defined as to also defy any attempts at discourse without elaboration that's nowhere to be found on this post; and are factually wrong, be it because of lying about what happened in the game or due to your own ignorance on important details of Fates' lore and story”, then yes, you did a bang-up job.
For anyone with more than two functioning brain-cells that isn't also just reading everything here like a mindless drone that's just satisfied to see a game they already hated being criticized, that entire section was nothing more than an incoherent mess of misinformation, vagueness and subjectivity, all shoehorned into the umbrella of “worldbuilding”, despite next to none of them having any correlation to that aspect of Fates whatsoever.
> are we done here? Almost. There's one more thing: what worldbuilding is in Fates is childishly simple or not given any importance.
> The easy example of this is Nohr. We're left to wonder how a barely hospitable land, filled with rebellions, bandits, monsters, and a tyrannical king who doesn't shy away from murdering entire villages of his own people, could possibly conquer anything. Shouldn't this be the very first thing to establish, like in Echoes?
Prove that the land in the Nohrian capital was always infertile; the entire reason Nohr started conquering other territories was because they were running out of food and other important resources, meaning it was capable of sustaining itself long enough to estabilish and develop the country and train an army, which would logically mean that the country was capable of growing food on it's own at the start, prior to something happening that fucked over their earth and forced them to start conquering smaller territories to survive.
If you're not talking about how Nohr was first estabilished and are instead asking how start-of-game Nohr can conquer anything, which is implied by the rest of the paragraph, this is even dumber; take a wild guess at what they're having the conquered territories do for them and where all the food that's being hoarded by the royalty and army, as estabilished by the ending of Conquest, came from, and you'll have your answer.
As for the other points: the bandits aren't stupid enough to try taking on the army and only prey on the peasants and/or rich travelers, which are irrelevant for Nohr's military might or it's ability to conquer territories; the only monsters in Fates are the Faceless and Stoneborn, which are nowhere to be found in Nohr due to being exclusively deployed in Hoshidan territory to harass the opposing country, so this is just false; whether the random peasants at risk of being murdered on a whim like Garon or not is irrelevant to Nohr's ability to conquer territores.
> However, since I like to bring up things that aren't discussed as often, I'll also mention this: Mikoto's legitimacy as queen. A mysterious woman from a hidden country you can't even talk about (that only the royal family knows about? I could have sworn Azura says something about that, but again, that's just silly) gets taken in, with a baby, by King Sumeragi.
A mysterious woman from a hidden country that no one knew of anymore, as implied by JP Azura's dialogue; since that correction has been beaten into the ground already, prove that Mikoto didn't make any sort of a cover story to explain her existence to the people of Hoshido and just left everyone in the country wondering where she came from for the entirety of her stay there, including Sumeragi and the royal siblings.
> Ikona dies soon afterwards, and Sumeragi marries Mikoto, only to die shortly afterwards.
The worst-case scenario for Mikoto is that she arrived at Hoshido with a 6 year old Corrin, Ikona died shortly after Mikoto's arrival, Mikoto was queen consort for a few weeks to a few months, and then Sumeragi died and she took over as queen; the best-case scenario is that she arrived with a days-to-weeks old Corrin, Ikona divorced Sumeragi shortly after giving birth to Sakura, Mikoto was queen consort for a little over four years, and then Sumeragi died.
While i will happily concede that the former sequence of events should cast immense suspicion as to Mikoto's innocence in her rise to the throne, it's also much less likely to be true than the latter interpretation, due to contradicting pieces of information elsewhere in the game and creating glaring issues with any rumors that might arise regarding Mikoto's ascension: Corrin is stated to have been a baby when they were brought to Hoshido and is older than Takumi and Sakura, meaning they must have been less than a year old and, as such, Mikoto would have had to live with Ikona for at least 6 months (if she was already pregnant with Sakura) and at most a year-and-a-half to a little over two years (if Ikona wasn't pregnant with Takumi yet/if she waited a few months between prior to becoming pregnant with Sakura) prior to her death. Why would Mikoto have waited so long to kill Ikona if she wanted a better chance at getting the throne?
In addition, there's nothing confirming that Ikona died before Sumeragi, only that she did so prior to the start of the game; given that she could have either been passed over for the title of queen consort due to favoritism from Sumeragi (if they were his concubines) or have just given the title over to Mikoto due to not wanting to deal with the responsibilities and restrictions of royalty anymore, it's completely baseless to assume that Ikona's death would have cast suspicion on Mikoto when we don’t even know if she died before Mikoto became Queen or if her demise would have benefited Mikoto in any way if she did.
As for Sumeragi, Mikoto lived with him for a minimum of five years, four of those as his main consort; i don't think i need to explain the issue with her taking so long to kill him if she wanted power, especially when he fell blindly in love with her at first sight and would have very quickly appointed her as his successor in case he died prior to Ryoma coming of age to rule.
With all those things put together, i find it extremely unlikely for any rumors of Mikoto setting up Ikona and Sumeragi to die to ever end up as anything more than fringe conspiracy theories, and extremely flimsy and ridiculed ones at that.
> This leaves Mikoto the ruler of Hoshido despite people not knowing where she comes from,
Again, prove that she never gave the people of Hoshido a cover story for her existence.
> despite having brought with her what the population would consider a bastard child,
I'll take this in good faith and assume that you're arguing that Sumeragi just told people that Corrin was born from a fling he had with Mikoto before they married each other, and as such they'd be seen as a bastard child, not that you completely forgot that it's estabilished as early as chapter 4 that nearly everyone in Hoshido believes Corrin to be Sumeragi and Mikoto's child.
Prove that the concept of bastard children exists in Hoshido or that it would include something as semantic as “the king and queen's legitimate child, but since they were born before they married, they shouldn’t have access to the throne or be considered royalty”; the fact that Takumi explicitly states in the drama CD that a male Corrin is second in line for the Hoshidan throne after Ryoma pretty directly proves that the concept of bastards either doesn't exist in Hoshido/exists, but doesn't apply to a situation like Corrin's.
And that's disregarding the very likely possibility that Mikoto and Sumeragi just told everyone Corrin was born after they married; they could have smuggled Corrin into the castle in secret, kept them inside for a couple years while convincing the maids to stay quiet about the situation, then announced that Mikoto had given birth a while ago and that Corrin was their child; there's nothing in the game to imply that she met with Sumeragi in public instead of in secrecy when she agreed to marry him, and/or that anyone from Nohrshido saw her carrying Corrin when she left Valla.
> and despite it possibly looking like she planned this all along.
Again, that'd be a fringe conspiracy theory at best, given what we know of the timeframe for Mikoto's arrival.
> However, as the game shows, she's the ideal queen and people love her. Maybe it's the no-fighting-bubble she can keep up 24/7 on a country-wide scale, or maybe she's just so nice that the Hoshidans don't care who their queen is.
Probably; you’re trying to make those suggestions sound ridiculous, but the barrier and her natural charisma probably did go a long way to helping her gain favor with the populace throughout the years, even if they weren't the main reasons.
> I will say one thing though: this is actually mentioned in-game, but in Kagero's B support with Corrin, and the explanation is given three lines without acknowledging a lot of the details I brought up.
Mostly because that conversation can and very likely will be held when Corrin still doesn't know the full extent of their parentage or of Mikoto's backstory, which would be necessary for an in-depth explanation as to why she'd have had issues as queen and would also be a massive spoiler. Still, i'm glad you finally did some research into Fates lore and supplementary material before making an argument; kudos.
> Given how important Mikoto *should* be not just for the overall narrative but also for the chemistry between all the Hoshidan siblings and Corrin, this shouldn't be easily missable.
Why would knowing the exact details of her rule as queen and whether she struggled to gain the people's love at first due to her being an outsider be of any relevance to Fates' narrative, especially given that she stops being important to the story when she dies, which happens very early on in the plot?
Also, what importance should she have had for the chemistry between Corrin and the Hoshidan siblings, exactly? Corrin remembers next to nothing about Mikoto and wouldn't be able to meaningfully connect with any of them on that topic.
> To make a comparison with a similar question of status in Path of Radiance, Sanaki says Ike has to be knighted in order to be able to lead the troops, as his mercenary background would negatively impact the troops and raise eyebrows elsewhere. It's an important distinction that this is brought up in the main plot.
It's brought up because it's in the middle of happening instead of having happened two decades prior to the start of the game; even assuming that Mikoto's cover story didn't include her being born as a Hoshidan (unlikely), she became one as soon as she married Sumeragi.
Also, explain the important distinction between a piece of relevant worldbuilding being brought up in the main plot (Ike can't lead the troops due to his mercenary background unless he's knighted, which he doesn't want to be, stopping him from leading the troops and affecting the plot in an important way) and a piece of irrelevant worldbuilding being brought up in easily-accessible support conversations (Mikoto had a rough time when she first started out as queen but gained her people's love with time, something completely superfluous to the plot of Fates given that she had clearly surpassed whatever stigmas people might have had of her by the time the story starts).
I'm curious, though; if Tellius had started on a game where Ike was a former mercenary leading the troops, it was stated that you need to be a knight to lead the troops, and they never spelled out that Ike was knighted in order to lead the troops, would you be levying the same criticism against those games? Are you consistently against inferrences, or do you only do that for things you dislike?
Tune in next time for the grand finale to this epic saga, with sexism, mycastles, deeprealms, supports, and much more!
#fire emblem fates#fire emblem#corrin fire emblem#reddit#story analysis#ryoma fire emblem#xander fire emblem#worldbuilding
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major vent post incoming. if you dislike rwby negativity then do not click read more. Just my opinions, feel free to disagree- its just therapeutic for me to write it out.
Perhaps this is a hot take but I wish it had taken longer for whitley to accept weiss back. I wish he hasn't hugged her back, not until later. At least have weiss earn that. I really dislike how all it took was whitley proving to weiss that he wasn't a bad person, but not the other way around. I know Whitley didn't do it for her, but it was the act in and of itself that weiss needed. Whitley proved himself to weiss that he wasn't like their father, but what did Weiss do to prove *directly* to whitley that he could trust her not to hurt him again? In fact, everything she did up until the Schnug (tm) point only would make it worse (and I'm sorry I don't accept the writers saying she was "standing up to whitley" truly they can fuck off with their abuser logic bs. I really shouldn't expect anything from them but I'm still disappointed).
But instead, weiss gets everything she wants while never acknowledging whitley's valid anger towards her. Hell, whitley never acknowledged his own issues with weiss in a constructive way. It was solely between willow (his abuser) and weiss (the person he's mad at). They don't talk about their problems, whitley's anger is just hugged away because weiss realizes that he's a good person. And it just really funny when Weiss says "I didn't forget about you" when you realize that whitley wasn't even in on it. He never knew that willow asked her weiss not to forget him. Because. They. Never. Talked. About. It.
Take willow's "you left him here alone with us" line out of v7, and what would have changed? Would Weiss have *not* tried to argue with may that you shouldn't leave you family to die? Would weiss have not saved saved whitley from being mauled to death? Would she have continued to be mad even after he called klein? How did that line at all affect weiss in a direct way? I'm not talking about some obscure asspull from one line she says. Because what weiss says to anyone who isn't whitley doesn matter more than what she should have said to him.
I just don't like it, I'm sorry. Weiss and winter get so many great scenes together to develop their relationship, but we can't even get Weiss to acknowledge she hurt Whitley and to be held to it in any meaningful way. I'm not asking that Weiss flog herself, but my god the bare minimum acknowledgement is required to whitley himself. Not willow. Not her friends. To whitley. Because he is the one she hurt. They can't even have a conversation.
And it's because Whitley just isn't allowed to be angry. He isn't allowed to be upset at his sisters because when he is it's brushed aside as him being a "mini Jacques" and "upholding what the schnee name used to mean" by the fandom and the writers themselves. We can't let Weiss look bad! One good line isn't enough to flesh out a character's issues, especially when it's not built on top of later in any meaningful way and resolved in a completely one-sided way. (Which reminds me why I am so not excited for whatever they have in store for winter and whitley. I dont have any faith anymore. Not really).
And while I'm on this, "trust is risk"... No, just no Weiss. You don't get to say that. Not as it relates to Whitley. Not when she never risked a single thing in ""trusting"" Whitley because she never did until he came to her first. Whitley was the one who took a risk. Weiss did everything she could to make Whitley feel even more alone and scared. It was Whitley who came forward and did something good for her friend, making him vulnerable on front of everyone, on the risk that Weiss might just abandon him anyways again. It was Whitley who decided trust is risk, not both of them. Weiss doesn't get to be a part of that like she risked anything by her actions. Everything surrounding weiss and whitley is just so unintentionally manipulative, I don't know how anyone edited that script and greenlit it.
*sigh*
And I really don't want to be told to "wait for it". I've waited for it since v4. And what I've gotten thus far has shown me that it's not of good quality and thats all I'm really going to get.
And some will try to argue that it's too much to expect from Weiss. As if her being a good person and not a the smug bastardization of the character I love is 'too much'. "She shouldn't apologize!" Because apparently being a mean little sibling is somehow more of a grevious sin than being abandoned and never given a second thought by your family.
And don't even get me fucking started on willow. No, her "even I'm above drinking in the dark" joke wasn't funny. Not when she had been criminally neglecting whitley. Not when she left him completely alone during an apocalypse, never once checking him on his emotional or physical well-being. Not when the lights going out is somehow more important to her than being there for her son. And they just don't... Acknowledge it. It's insane to me that whitley just continually gets treated like crap by his entire family and it's swept under the rug because they just don't let him die that one time. And also because theyre woman and sad :(
Seriously, if I was whitley I would go completely no-contact with willow, weiss and winter the first moment I get. Jesus. Especially after v8.
And I don't want every excuse to be made for winter in v9 or V10 or whatever the fuck. I don't want whitley to have to prove himself to her. I don't want her abandonment of whitley to just be excused and made light of. Because she really doesn't care about him and it shows! I don't want him to be winter's little emotional support sibling so she can feel better about herself because she lost weiss and realized that she can somehow make up for it by finally giving a fuck about her little brother. I want there to be tension between the two of them. I want them to hurt each other. I just don't want it to be completely one sided. I want them to have something between them that is unique to their relationship, not making weiss into a martyr and browbeating both of them with it.
But idk why I'm even worked up about this, because at this point I'm pretty sure I won't even be watching v9. Not because I'm dropping RWBY (I'll still be active on this blog and I will know what's going through rwby mutuals), but frankly I just don't care about the protags. V8 was just. Bad. Now that I look back at it. I find that I'm just completely uninterested in half the things I'm supposed to care about. Ruby emotional breakdown? Maybe. Bmblb? Absolutely not. Jaune manpain? Neo?? No. Its fine if you like those things, I don't want to alienate anyone or say that the thing they look forward to is Bad, that's just my opinion.
I like vacuo. I want to learn more about that kingdom. I want to learn about professor Theodore, I want to learn about the socioeconomic state of that kingdom. I want to learn about their 'royal family', I want to see the tensions between the atlesian refugees and vacuoans. I want to see how the refugees are going to settle. Thats what I look forward too. I don't know if I have high hopes, but as you can tell I'm really out of excuses.
I don't even look forward too any more schnee moments, thats how much I'm broken by this show lmao. If they couldn't write racism in a sensitive way why the fuck did they think they could handle abuse?
Sorry I just needed to get this off my chest. It's just very therapeutic for me. Feel free to finish this and think I'm an idiot who's wrong about everything if that's how you feel- I just needed to vent.
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@sparklyaxolotlstudent wrote:
Sorry but no.
I agree with everything in here except for this bit... which is the main point, but still...
“The very idea that the class does something wrong in ‘Chameleon’ is salt.“
Nope, sorry but nope.
Yes, it’s not their fault they believe Lila’s lies.
Yes, it’s totally in character to be benevolent to someone that they believe was disabled and needed the accomodation
But that’s also the only point were they willingly (but not maliciously, one hope) fucked up.
Lila needs to be at the front because of her tinnitus. Ok, that’s the info they had, that’s what they needed to accomodate.
There are four seats at the front, meaning that Chloe, Sabrina, Nino or Adrien were the only ones that actually needed to switch places.
And what happened?
It’s ambiguos, it might not even had been Lila’s idea to begin with, but everyone decide to switch seats to be with their best friends/boyfriend/girlfriend!
And send Marinette to the back.
Which was also not necessary by any means.
“Oh Marinette I’m sorry you have to be on your own, but you’re going to sit behind Nino and me and in front o X and Y”
Nope
“Oh yeah, you weren’t here, but we decided to switch seats so you’re vanquished to the back row. Sucks to be you amirite?”
Anyone is free to think whatever they want about the seat, some people have argued that the seat is meaningless, that Marinette was overdramatic, etc, etc. Bullshit. She wasn’t made a part of the seating decision, she wasn’t even given a heads up about the seating decision.
Again, you(general you) might think whatever you want, but this was enough to upset Marinette almost to the point of akumatization
“Oh, she should have speak up that she disagreed”
She tried, and the class almost lynched her. She dares to question this, the others glare at her with such hate you could think she just murdered their grandmas.
So yeah, if anything, the class changing the whole seating arrangment without everyone agreeing to it (It’s heavily implied that Adrien was also not aware. Chloe and Sabrina could go either way, but it’s not like she would care) IS something they did wrong and SHOULD apologize. (And no, Alya’s “ You didn't think I'd let my BFF sit all by herself, did you? “ is not an apology)
It’s not salt to point out narrative flaws.
I'm sorry, but what you wrote is literally salt. You're using the exact same arguments salters have been using for years now and it doesn't matter how many times you repackage them the rest of us are still not convinced. In fact, you're so stereotypical, you're even using the cliche salter opener "sorry but no" and replacing actual arguments with nothing more than “nope”. Because your arguments are literally "well, I personally disagree so you're wrong."
Even though we've seen this dance a million times, I'll repeat the counter steps.
1) Your use of hyperbole creates a bad faith argument. The class at no point “almost lynched” Marinette. Stop making things up. You’re trying to argue your point, not make a rant post.
2) You're holding everyone not named Marinette to a completely unreasonable standard of behavior. Fictional characters are flawed as people because otherwise it would be harder to keep stakes up for an engaging story. If the non malicious intentions of the class shouldn't be taken into account and they should be forced to apologise to Marinette, Marinette should be forced to apologise to Lila because she was literally bullying Lila in that episode by your own unreasonable standards of people always having to be perfect and always having to take other people's potential hurt feelings into account.
Or do only Marinette's feelings count? In your view they probably do, because you're such a stereotypical salter.
3) The story not going exactly like you want it to is not a "narrative flaw". That's you having expectations and treating anything that doesn't hit those expectations as bad and wrong is entitled. Then again, salters tend to be entitled so I guess you're playing true to type.
You're free to project and salt and whatever and not even just for self-therapy reasons but because you like it, but don't come at me telling me that's an actual analysis of the show. I have a degree in this stuff and your biases are obvious no matter how much you repeat the same salt discourse that's been around since 'Chameleon' aired.
You get a 0% for this assignment for misrepresenting the purpose of this exercise, and for presenting somebody else’s work as your own.
#ml fandom salt#dats chats#this is literally what I meant when I said salters mimic each other#I thought this was a parody account with how accurate the 'salter stereotype' was#ml salt#since I actually showed the salter's arguments in full in the spirit of presenting the opinion I'm countering
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i would low key love to hear your tangent about the differences there are between how VM and TM9 react with the world
ah, the perfect excuse for me to put off my 30 page reading, thank you :3
(i’m also going to preface this by saying most of this is stuff i’ve picked from other people’s various metas and i absolutely do not remember who those authors might be so i apologize jsdlkfsd)
....
but uh ... basically i feel like vox machina and the nein have a completely opposite standard for how they interact with the people the consider to be their “inner circle” vs. everyone who doesn’t qualify as that.
vm is a group of individuals who, overall, had one cruel person that slighted them but didn’t really destroy their faith in humanity. (their faith in themselves is a whole different horse. that ones .... woof. looking at you percy scanlan tary keyleth.) Percy had the briarwoods, Grog had Kevdak, the twins and tary had their father. so, the way that they interact with just random people that they meet is - with exceptions of course - amicable, or at the very least, respectably polite.
they’re the saviours of emon, the freers of whitestone. they have festivals held in their honor. they have kid fans and random farmers knocking on their doorstep for aid because they’ve heard tales of the kindness. sure, vex can be a hassle when she’s haggling down a price, and keyleth tends to poke buttons in way that gets her arrested a fair amount of the time, but at the end of the day they’re the people’s heroes, and they’re happy to be that!
their inner circle, however, is much more closely guarded. they have a few chosen allies (gilmore, allura, kima, kash and zahra, cassandra) and that’s it. They’re hesitant with anyone else trying to creep into their personal fold. Hell, it took beating up tary and him breaking down sobbing for them to even consider liking him. they’ve been burned by raishan and clarota and hotis, by individuals they let in and who then stabbed them in the back. they’ll do almost any favor for a stranger who asks, but they’ll be damned if they trust anyone to actually join their midst. vox machina is vox machina is vox machina and that’s incredibly hard to change.
the nein, on the other hand, are fundamentally a group of rejects. some of them have specific people they can point a finger at and say “i hate you”, but those problems stem from a greater societal rejection. beau has daddy issues, but she also felt rejected by the entire cobalt soul until dairon found her. caleb has trent’s fucked up shit, but he also has this constant pressure of having failed his entire country, not to mention the faceless hate piled up on him from living homeless for a year. jester’s whole deal is that she had to hide from LITERALLY ALL OF SOCIETY for her entire childhood because she wasn’t supposed to exist.
and so, the nein are shitheads to society right back. they’re mean to random barkeeps, they trash their inns and don’t say sorry, they mock most NPCs behind their back (or sometimes right to their face. @ marius). Every favor asked of them comes with a ton of deliberation and arguing about whether its bait or not (ie bowlgate, the giants in the mine outside rosohna, essiks “favors”).
but, on the flip side, they’re willing to tug just about anyone into their ranks. if society already hates them by default, what’s there to lose if they get close to someone? nothing, there’s only more love to be found! so it’s adopting random bird girls on the road, its sending cupcakes to a hag that cursed your friend, its sending messages to everyone you’ve ever met just to check in, it’s making someone sit in the hot tub with you and share trauma and then when you find out he started a war you say “we get it bro” and kiss him on the forehead. it’s “welcome to the mighty nein”.
and it’s also very interesting, i think, to talk about the ways in which the party interacts with themselves. vox machina was a family, undoubtedly, as is the nein now. but vox machina ... had a lack of desperation to their attachment. i mean for one, they took a full year off from adventuring together and scattered cross continent. even if the nein gets down time like they did, i expect they’ll just trail each other around like lemmings. (its kind of what they’ve been doing from hiatus until now with the eiselcross arc starting).
but vox machina just ... went. and scanlan walked away from the party and (after the heat of the moment), they agreed to just let him be. and pike would spend weeks on quests for sarenrae without much of a complaint. even at the end - and this will be a controversial take, i know - but they let vax go pretty easily. (sure, mechanically they were wiped from fighting, but besides tears the only attempt to defy trq was from percy, which even he gave up on with minimal struggle because vax said to stop it). that’s not to say they don’t miss each other when they’re gone! of course they do!!! but they trust each other to go off into the world, because the world as whole is a place they trust.
(the one exception to this might be vex, who fought every one of these situations adamantly, but that’s a whole separate essay about her issues stemming from an innate sense of ‘failed family’ that she’s desperate to not repeat, and less about a mistrust of everyone until proven otherwise)
the nein on the other hand. hoo boy. they’ve been hot glued to each other’s hips since day one. So many quotes (many from beau, which could be worked into my previous vex essay, as they’re very much cross-campaign foils. getting sidetracked again) are about their inability to separate. “You don’t get to choose who cares about you”; “No one goes”; “If one of us is gone for more than 7 days assume we’re dead and have a funeral”; “Do we have co-dependecy issues?” Jester’s cool personal vacation to her god’s get together turned into a party with everyone because why would she go anywhere without the nein? Veth’s time with Luc and/or Yeza is constantly overrun with the rest of the nein dropping in for fun. Even small things like shopping trips are so much more “oh well if you’re going then i’ll go” snowballs than they ever were with vm.
Also, ashley’s absences had to be much more forceful than in c1. Post episode 11, the only time yasha left the group (rather than someone else piloting her) of her own free will was when she ran in grief from molly’s grave. And yes, there’s something to be said about “oh they were on a boat for a long time she had nowhere to go” but if Matt can justify astral projection pike, i feel like he could justify ‘the stormlord teleports yasha away for a bit’ and he chose not to.
Because!!!!!!!!! of the dynamic that the nein has!!!!!!!! Because of this idea that the world is bad and cold and full of hate and in here in our little hut (soon to be mansion??????) it’s safe and good and full of love and no one can leave because then you’d be going somewhere much more dangerous and we can’t have that, now can we?
.....
well uh. that’s a lot of words. i hope they made some sense??? and were at all what you were expecting???? thank u for sending the ask tho this was very fun to write!!
tldr: vox machina is a group of people who were betrayed by one bad figure, so they trust the world and are wary of the individual; whereas the nein is a group of people who were failed by the world at large so they welcome the loner and fear the pack.
#critical role#vox machina#the mighty nein#critical role meta#hey the actual essay bit turned out be 1200 words On The Nose
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Have to apologize, I keep referencing you in my posts! Just been on a Luke/Jedi defense train and you always have some of the bests posts presented or reblogged in one location I keep needing to point people in your direction to try and understand what is going on.
Keep up the amazing work! I love your page and all that you provide!
That is nothing to apologize for, I'm honored! 💕 And here's my general blanket statement of permission for you and anyone else who wants it: If you want to point people in my direction for resources or whatever, feel free!
If you want to use my meta or resources on another platform (whether in a discussion or as a new post), as long as there's credit (for work that's mine, not, like, collecting other people's meta in a single tag) or a link in a reasonable place and it's not to just bad faith argue with it/trying to angrily tear into it, feel free as well! If you want to ask me ahead of time, that is super sweet and I'll probably metaphorically smooch up on you, but if you're shy and hate talking to new people, you don't have to and I'm fine with it!
(I mean, feel free to not use me, too! I'm just a single person yelling on the internet about Star Wars, there are lots of people who do that, as well as it's perfectly doable to find your own citations or word your own arguments. 😂)
Anyway, I'm glad that I could help, if nothing else, I'm really good at reblogging the incredible things this fandom puts together, just nobody ask me to make a masterlist or anything because I would definitely cry at just the thought. ;)
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Boyfriend!Nagito analysis
Mod Mikan is bored with her head empty with nothing but Nagito (as always). I wanted to do a Nagito misconception post thingy, but I was like “Nahhhh~....” So I’ll just do a Boyfriend!Nagito analysis (which is also kinda a rant thingy, cause I was in the mood to rant a bit) :)
This isn’t even me simping, if Nagito was just a neutral character to me, I still think he’d be like this as a significant other
I will use the “Five languages of Love” as my basis for this analysis:
To summarize, the five love languages are loving words, physical affection, gifts, time spent together, and lending a helping hand. Here is why I personally believe Nagito would be fluent in all five of these acts. But first, some basic information about Nagito and his views on love:
I get it. Nagito never had anyone that loved him, or anyone that he would love. No one was there to comfort him when he was going through so many hardships in his life, which made him develop a ‘cheerful, laid-back’ persona he can hide his true emotions behind. He thinks his problems are ‘too worthless’ for people to care about. He tells Hajime during his final FTE that his one true desire in life is to be loved. If you somehow managed to break that wall he puts between himself and others, and earn a place in his life as someone he can love, BAM! He would be the most devoted and faithful partner. He would try so hard to keep that one person that makes him feel like a real human being and like he’s worth expressing his real feelings. Even if it meant doing an ample amount of research, reading books, watching videos, anything for his love! Nagito is aware that people doesn’t like him and he believes he doesn’t deserve for his yearning for love to become a reality. But again, if you are successful in breaking that wall and convince him that you truly and deeply love him, he would do everything--and I mean A N Y T H I N G--in his power to make sure that you are aware he loves and cherishes you everyday
Now let’s move onto Nagito and the love languages
Words of affirmation: This one is probably a given, but Nagito speaks very highly of the other ultimates and puts them on a pedestal. His way of praises and affectionate words may come off as intense and strong, but in his heart, he truly cares and love his classmates. He doesn’t spend much time with most of them, yes, but keep in mind that his man doesn’t have a most experience with social interactions and is afraid of scaring them off. It’s also canon that he keeps his distance from people he likes because he just wants to protect them from his luck hurting them. The only people he actually got to spend time and get to know was Hajime, Chiaki and occasionally Kazuichi. Nagito genuinely respects and appreciates the Ultimates. Yes, he confuses the ‘hope they embody’ with pure, platonic love, but it comes to show that he really does care for them. Everything he does is never for himself, rather for this classmates. While some people may argue that “He doesn’t really care for them as people, he just likes what they can offer due to their talent” I get some people that may think like this. If you haven’t watched the anime, I can kinda understand where you are coming from with this depiction. But you have to understand that Nagito believes he’s going absolute good for their ‘hope to shine brighter’. His actions aren’t purely to be a dick, he does this for them!
Nagito’s obsession with hope is twisted, but not his definition of hope. Hope literally means a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen. Synonyms include ambition, aspiration and dream. This means that Nagito will do anything for his classmates “Dreams to shine brighter”, telling them that he will do anything for them to achieve their goals. Why would someone that secretly doesn’t give two shits about his classmates go to the ends of the earths just for his classmates? I know, I know. His actions aren’t the best. They are harmful and dangerous--but he means well and his heart is in a good place. I will speak more of this in acts of service, but I will stick with his words of affirmation right now
Praises and compliments always leaves Nagito’s mouth, at least before chapter 4. He goes on about the Ultimates being ‘symbols of hope’ and will even talk bad about himself to make them feel better. While this isn’t the best way to show you love someone, is it wrong that he, in fact, does praise and compliments the Ultimates. He verbally shows his love and admiration through praise, and even compliments some of them as people. He calls Mahiru “High-spirited” Chiaki “Pretty perceptive” on their character relationship chart, hell! He even compliments Hajime on being ‘smart’ even when he found out he was talentless! Yes, people will argue and say he was being sarcastic, but just read his wiki page and it will say “He says that he genuinely and sincerely means everything he says”
After all, he did get the lying despair disease in chapter 3, which was the opposite of his usually personality
Physical Touch: Nagito is touch-starved af. He probably wasn’t close to his parents growing up and most likely received some sort of mental and emotional abuse as well. Mixed with his luck and non-existent self esteem, it would be no surprise if his parents blamed him for a lot of bad things that happened and easily pin it on ‘his luck’. He says that he was the closest to the family dog, which implies that he was assumably treated on the same level as the dog. If Nagito had a SO, it wouldn’t be just anyone. It would be someone that he already has a deep emotionally connection with. Someone who can he can human around, and not just hide behind a smile. As soon as he can call someone his significant other, he would latch onto them like a koala. He would most definitely enjoy cuddles, hand-holding, and wrapping his arm around them. He never had anyone to lean on or cry with, so he would be very hesitant displaying physical affection at first. It’s so new to him, but then again, you didn’t just accept his feelings for nothing! Nagito is no fool--he knows that you aren’t a liar when you say that you aren’t going to leave him. He’s also pretty observant, so if he sees you frowning or pouting because he backed out on holding/cuddling you, he’d would continue with the halted affection. He just doesn’t think he deserves it. He would ask his SO with E V E R Y T H I N G that involved physical touch, even if it was just hand-holding or hugging. Get prepared to be bombarded with questions starting with “Is it okay if I (insert physical affection) with you?”. But it’s only because he wants to do it, but thinks he doesn’t deserve to “taint someone as hopeful as you with his disgusting touch”. Keep in mind the reason why he asks over and over again is because he really wants to do it. Over time in the relationship, or even if you initiated some of it, Nagito would feel like he actually deserved the love and would never take any direct contact of admiration for granted. He’d smile and, if he was feeling unusually bold that day, would even start the kiss/hug (but would feel SUPER embarrassed and ashamed later)
Baby steps, everyone. Baby steps
Receiving gifts: This use to be something the majority of the fandom missed about Nagito, but now, I’m sure that everyone knows about this--Nagito is loaded. He has more money than the average person spends in their life, and can pull many more winning lottery tickets whenever he wants. This is certainly a given in the fandom, and something I do agree with in the fandom. Since Nagito’s low self-confidence and his severe inferiority complex would make him constantly believe he doesn’t deserve you, yet he doesn’t want to lose the one thing that he can be himself with. He loves you and he knows it’s selfish, but he wants to be with you forever. It would be no secret that he would use his money 99.9% of the time on you. Nagito has no desire to hold onto the money or to spend it on someone that doesn’t deserve it (himself). When you become the one person that he loves and values more than hope itself, you become that thing that he can spoil and spend his wealth on. After all, someone as hopeful as you deserves only the best! Praises wouldn’t just be the only thing that would spill outta him. Almost everyday, he would surprise you with gifts to the point where it wouldn’t be a surprise anymore. Nagito is also very keen and attentive, so whatever present he’ll get you, you will obviously love it. The way your eyes light up and smile when you see something you love. Or when your face twitches and you bite your lip, seeing something you hate: You wouldn’t even have to say anything for Nagito to notice. He’s just standing next to you, smiling--and planning on what to get you next
If he can get you everything you wanted.....you wouldn’t leave him....right?
Quality Time: It’s canon that Nagito has been alone for the as long as he can remember. Not only does his lack of social interactions and being out of touch with even his own emotions prove this, but he was basically free to do whatever he wished since he had no family left after his parents passed. He had no friends, no acquaintances, and everyone still avoids him due to his creepiness. Even when he is trying to make friends, everyone still tends to dislike him, making him feel like no one loves him. Just imagine you’ve been all alone, not even one person has stuck by your side for several years
Now you have someone that claims they love you. Someone that assures and tells you that they will never leave you. Someone that is there to lift your self-confidence back on your feet and will always be there to reassure and praise you whenever you are feeling down about yourself
You never had anyone like this before. What is this feeling exactly?
I do admit--Nagito would be really awkward at first. But time is key! I wholeheartedly believe that Nagito will eventually sink into the touch and affection that his SO provides for him. You are his whole world--the hope light of his life. I would even add that since his SO would already have an emotional bond with him, even prior to dating, they would be the ones that would ‘keep him sane’ and guide him in the right direction. Nagito would have already spent a huge chunk of his time with them, showing his more vulnerable side and true emotions towards them. He would absolutely enjoy their company and time, making him forget all about his once lonely life without them. Without you, he can never go back to the miserable once he once had even though he thinks he deserves it. He knows it’s selfish, but hey! Can a guy, even like him, be selfish once in a while
I actually have this headcanon that he’s very clingy and so emotionally dependent on you, that he asks his SO to move in with him at such an early age, even when they are in high school. Hey, it must get pretty boring in such a spacious, empty manor like his parents’ old one. Why dread coming home to the lonely, boring life he had without you, when he can look forward to seeing his angel of hope again?!
Of course, with your parents’ permission and all, but I feel like Nagito’s SO’s parents would love him!
Even if you aren’t that clingy or into PDA, Nagito will totally respect your boundaries and comfort. He prioritizes your needs before his own and will absolutely back off if you start to feel the slightest discomfort. You probably don’t even have to say anything, just one quick look at your face would do the trick. Nagito can read you like a fucking novel
Acts of Service: It’s no secret that Nagito would go to the ends of the earths and do literally anything for his classmates. I mean, he built a bomb just so his classmates would get out of taking a test. Just imagine what he would do for his SO! No, I’m talking about killing anyone. He never kills anyone in the killing game, so I don’t think he would kill anyone for the sake of his SO. That’s probably one of the very, V E R Y few things he cannot do for his lover. But anything else, even something drastic as closing their school because of a test that was stressing them out or buying them a ‘private island in the middle of the Persian Gulf’ cause they wanted to spend winter break somewhere warm wouldn’t be a problem for him. Nagito doesn’t want his beloved hope to feel the despair he did, and he would do everything and anything in his, insane amount of, power to make sure that hope never runs out. Even if his methods are a bit...extreme, he does this because he loves you! Everything he does is solely for the ones he loves, never for himself
Idk, maybe it’s just because I like crazy people, but I do think Nagito would literally do whatever he can think of for his SO
I said this before in my Nagito ‘unpopular opinion post’ but I’ll say it again: I see a lot of people headcanon Nagito as someone that would unintentionally and intentionally push his lover’s boundaries and limits to see them “overcome despair with hope” but I honestly wouldn’t see him doing that to his lover, at least not as much or extremely. If he would, he wouldn’t take it to the next level like he did in the killing game. Cause in Island Mode, even though he was waiting for despair to happen, he didn’t purposely inflict it. He rather wanted to spend time and have fun with Hajime. Also, I feel like his SO’s safety is his number one priority, since his luck could hurt them at any time. He would be extremely cautious if he wanted to cause ‘despair’ for their hope to ‘overcome’ it
I find many people exaggerating just how many ‘bad things’ Nagito did in the game. Yes, he does manipulate his classmate in killing him, but please exclude trial one if that is your only example! And exclude chapter 4 and 5, cause let’s face it: Learning that your idols, the ones who called ‘symbols of hope’ where actually apart of the worst terrorist group to walk this earth will make you even more batshit crazy
Nagito has been more helpful than even some of his classmates. He was the last one in chapter 2 to investigate, but at least he was more of use than Kazuichi! Nagito’s so smart and intelligent. He would plan everything out and make sure that the end result is all for his lover and nothing would get in the way of having their message heard, not his own wishes! This actually made me rethink about that famous bomb episode in the anime, and I know many people will argue that Nagito didn’t even think about the people that were in the building. But...what if he did?
The ‘bad luck’ would be that the building would get destroyed. But the ‘good luck’ would be that no one would get hurt. Nagito probably relied on his luck to make sure no person got damaged, just the building. Yes, IT WAS STILL WRONG! But think twice before saying “Yeah, Yeah, Nagito is smart”--No. He’s fucking intelligent. He does more planning that you will ever know, and that is what makes me believe that he will do anything, even going to extremes, to fulfill his SO’s wishes. In fact, with time, I think his SO would guide his actions on the right path and make sure that he would carry out his intentions with the best actions to follow through with it. Nagito would be more calm and tamed with his SO, and wouldn’t have to rush into anything reckless or impulsive
Even in Island Mode, Nagito was more at peace without the killing game’s toxic and stressful atmosphere. Hell, he was even waiting for despair to come, but he never purposely caused it! Which is why I write in a non-despair AU. Cause I really can’t make Nagito ‘purposely’ cause despair, because while I was replaying the game, I thought to myself “Wow....the fandom needs to chill” cause he was actually one of the most helpful characters. Without him, most trials wouldn’t even have been solved!
When I was first playing DRV2, I thought he was the ‘Kirigiri’ of the trials, not the antagonist! I know people would say “But he knew who was the blackened and didn’t even say anything” guys.......
Byakuya and Kyoko also knew in the first game, but left it up to Makoto’s ass to figure it out (I saw this meme on reddit, but Tumblr isn’t letting me link it)
So there you go! I hope you lovelies enjoyed :)
#Mod Mikan's thoughts of the day#Mod Mikan speaks!#nagito komeada misconceptions#Mod Mikan rants#This should be a series#Mod Mikan analysis
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You mentioned rewriting that one analysis post on Tommy’s revival stream and I’d really look forward to it! I never got to read the full og post and that’s the only place I saw these takes. Especially the one about the afterlife being too depressing. It’s not even just about Tommy, the implication that even if every character is safe and happy by the end, this is their inevitable fate is messed up. It’s not “a neat subversion” it’s just depressing and doesn’t add anything.
Hey, anon!
I sorta decided to not rewrite it? I feel a bit differently about the essay in the end, although I still believe in most of my points. I’m also just not nearly as passionate about it as I was when I wrote it (I finished it in a single sitting, which was... interesting.) However, yes, the afterlife stuff still bothers me just the same, as well as the odd changes to Wilbur’s characterization... post mortem.
But—just for you, anon—here’s the entire meta-analysis essay anyway, with some minor edits to the stuff I don’t agree with anymore!
My Many Narrative Issues with Tommyinnit’s Revival Stream
I want to preface this by saying that I dearly love the Dream SMP and understand it isn’t exactly comparable to other mediums like TV and film. With this being the case, most criticism against it is generally in bad faith or strange in foundation. Complaining about streamers for bad acting is the best example that comes to mind.
These aren’t professional actors. Most have never acted in this sort of setting, or even at all. Quite a few have admitted to never roleplaying before. Which is why it’s warranted to praise Tommy, Dream, Wilbur, Ranboo, and others when they deliver stellar performances. The same applies to criticism of music choice, dialogue delivery, focus, tone, etc.
However, one such category I cannot overlook is in regards to its writing. The writing of a story is its entire foundation. It encompasses many things—conflict choice, character development, themes, and morals. The author creates the blueprints for the architect, who then expresses the story with light, sound, color, pacing, and music. It is in its execution that we see if this connection is made or broken.
The reason I find poor writing mostly inexcusable is because it is one of the most available skills to practice and perfect. I don’t mean to say that it’s easy, I mean to say it is something anyone can attempt to cultivate. Whether they do it well or not depends on their methods and experience. If anyone can self-publish a novel and be criticized online for its quality—and even compared to the works of Mark Twain—then I find critiquing the writing of the Dream SMP to be perfectly reasonable.
However, since the Dream SMP script is a set of loose bullet points, tearing apart dialogue and scene continuity—which is nearly all improv—is rather useless. It doesn’t exactly have a clear focus as the plot plays out. The characters talk in circles until they hit the story beat required, and then they move onto the next. Thus, when criticizing it, one should generally critique grand events and narrative-specific shifts, more so than small-scale character interactions.
Which brings me to my main point: The broad narrative choices taken in Tommyinnit’s most recent livestream, ‘Am I dead?’ may lead to disastrous writing pitfalls in the future.
I’ll be outlining each of my issues below, in hopes of creating a better understanding as to why I feel this way.
This might become quite lengthy, so please bear with me for a bit.
Tommy’s relationship to Wilbur has flipped. This change is jarring and seems out of character.
Tommy and Wilbur’s friendship is rather complicated. While Wilbur does care for Tommy immensely, especially during the L’Manburg Revolution and the Election Arc, his mental spiral during exile put a massive strain on their relationship as a whole. Wilbur brushed off Tommy’s feelings and wants, while clinging to him and pushing everyone else away. He was simultaneously distant and suffocating.
Tommy, on the other hand, has an unclear view of his mentor. Since the beginning, and even long after Wilbur’s death, Tommy held him in especially high regard. He saw him as a brother-figure and a wise leader. He followed what he said and did everything he could to impress him. Yet, Wilbur still hurt him while the two were together in exile.
When speaking of him, Tommy tends to flip infrequently between remembering Wilbur the way he was before his mental decline and thinking of him as a monster. Both of these images conflict with each other, but they weren’t nearly as extreme as what Tommy described Wilbur as when he was revived from death. The fear Tommy displays to Wilbur is beyond intense—it feels as if the audience may have missed a month’s worth of character development.
This can make sense, especially since it was stated that he’d spent what felt like two months in the void. However, this shift is still deeply at odds with Tommy’s previous impressions of Wilbur, which is both disheartening and confusing. The fact that Tommy would agree to stay with Dream—his abuser and murderer—over his past mentor is simply head-reeling. It paints a very different picture of Wilbur’s character, somewhat conforming to the fandom’s ableist impression of him—the idea that Wilbur is insane and irredeemable, and always will be.
It also ignores Dream being the driving factor in Wilbur’s downfall, as well as the double-bind deal with Dream which required him to push the button, no matter the outcome. Others have pointed out that Tommy may be lying to get Dream to bring Wilbur back, and there’s compelling evidence for that. For one, Tommy and Wilbur’s conversation seemed uncomfortable, but it was certainly nothing like Tommy implied. (Unless this fear comes from something Wilbur said off-screen.)
Tommy also begged Dream to not bring him back multiple times over, which he should know would make Dream even more tempted to, simply because he likes seeing Tommy in pain. Tommy is also a known unreliable narrator. He may be making Wilbur out to be worse than he is by accident (even still, I’d argue this is a bit of a stretch.)
However, there are some issues with this theory. Tommy offered himself as payment to Dream if he chose to let Wilbur rest. This is a deal Tommy knows Dream is extremely unlikely to refuse. Tommy is what Dream has coveted all this time. If Tommy genuinely wanted Wilbur back, he would not offer this. This sort of compromise is Tommy’s greatest nightmare—something he would only do in response to his friends being threatened or his home being destroyed.
To add, Tommy is not great at lying. Unless he was taught by Wilbur for those two months* in the afterlife, there’s no chance Tommy would be this good at it. Thirdly, Tommy is terrible under pressure. He uses humor to cope. When he can’t, he cries and shouts and spills his heart out. While cornered, Tommy will tell the truth about anything, especially if Dream casually debates killing him again, just for fun.
For now, it’s too early to tell how the relationship shift will play out. In the grand scheme of things, this issue is rather minor.
Season three’s writing is needlessly bleak. The portrayal of the afterlife is a nightmare. There is no rest, not even in death.
I adore the Dream SMP storyline in its entirety. I believe the first season is fantastic, and while the second season has some narrative clarity issues, I enjoyed it just as much. Although, I would argue season one had a more concrete understanding of its Hope-Conflict balance.
To briefly explain, the Hope in stories are its ‘highs’ and good moments. These appear when a character the audience is rooting for is narratively rewarded. They happen during character building in the text—it’s the downtime and peace that allows for connection and relatability. It’s a moment for the viewer to breathe easy.
The other half is Conflict, an obstacle in the story that gets in the way of the main characters’ goals, beliefs, and motives. These are the ‘lows.’ They give the narrative focus and weight. They make the highs feel even higher. They establish consequences and force the characters in the story to change in order to adapt and overcome them.
I bring up the Hope-Conflict balance because a traditional hero’s journey would have an appropriate amount of both. Their highs and lows are generally equalized, as the name suggests. However, this balance has been awkwardly skewed in the latter half of season two and in the current plot of season three. To clarify, it is perfectly reasonable, and even common, for some stories to tip the scale more to one side.
But a common mistake for amateur writers is to create their stories as either hopelessly dark to cause the audience continuous distress for the sake of distress, or to keep everything entirely conflict-free for most of the plot. What do these both have in common? They each make the story boring and predictable.
Season three has taken this concept and thrown a monstrously heavy weight onto the Conflict side and flipped the scale so hard it has crashed through the ceiling. The viewers are hardly given time to find any joy in Tommy’s character, as he’s thrown into yet another abusive situation, just barely after his first narrative reward. The world is painted as relentlessly violent and traumatic.
Every person Tommy meets is morally grey, unhinged, or out to hurt him. Everything most of the characters love is taken from them by those in positions of power. Ranboo cannot even grieve properly because it scars his face. Puffy, Sam, Ranboo, and Tubbo all blame themselves for what happened to Tommy.
The audience watches lore stream after lore stream with the same depressing tone (with the exception of Tubbo’s, but I assume that’s unintentional.) Tommy is revived after being brutally beaten to death by his abuser, surrounded by all of his greatest fears. The afterlife is revealed to be akin to inescapable torture. It’s a colorless void that wraps the individual like fabric.
Time moves thirty times slower within. There’s nothing—nothing but the voices of others who’ve passed on before him. Dying in a world already devoid of happiness takes the characters to a place worse than hell. When a narrative delivers unfair suffering to the entire cast without a moment of joy to speak of, the story will feel simultaneously overwhelming and pointless.
Why watch characters suffer when there’s no light at the end of the tunnel? What happiness could they strive for when we know they’ll never get to keep it? How can I be satisfied with a good ending, if I know that an afterlife too terrible to name is what awaits them, truly, at the end of their story? Death isn’t even a white void that offers rest—it is eternal torment.
Obviously, it isn’t a good message to send by making the afterlife seem like a quiet, perfect place or an escape from pain. But making it an unspeakable anguish which awaits, assumedly, every character who will die in the future? I deeply hope Tommy was only being an extremely unreliable narrator.
More likely, I hope the place Tommy was taken to was a Limbo of sorts, not an end-all-be-all destination for everyone.
The degree of Tommy’s narrative punishment continues to escalate, to an almost absurd degree.
Tommy is one of the most tragic characters to exist in the storyline. He was sent into war at a young age and experienced two traumatic events during it. He was exiled by the newly elected leader and witnessed his mentor Wilbur spiral and break down with paranoia. Tubbo is executed publicly in front of him. When expressing rightful anger at the person who murdered him, he’s beaten nearly to death and never receives an apology.
Schlatt dies right in front of Tommy, after his initial refusal to hurt the ex-president. His brother-figure and mentor is killed in assisted suicide on the same day his nation is blown up. His best friend exiles him from his home for the second time. He routinely self-sacrifices to protect his country and those who live there. His most treasured possessions were taken from him and he was called selfish for trying to retrieve them (although his methods were self-destructive and volatile.)
He was pushed to the brink of suicide after being relentlessly abused and isolated in his exile. He was horrified when he thought he was responsible for drowning Fundy. After making an objectively good decision to stand by his old friends and change for the better, his country was obliterated by the man he once idolized, his father-figure, and his abuser.
He was left scattered and without purpose for many days. Then he fights against Dream and loses, while also reliving his trauma. He watches Tubbo almost die at the hands of someone he once thought was his friend. He doesn’t tell a single person about what happened to him in exile. The day he tries to sever his connection to Dream and heal, he’s trapped with him for a week, surrounded by everything that terrifies him.
He threatens to kill himself, speaking about his own life as if it were an object—something to hold over Dream’s head. He blames himself for everything bad that’s ever happened to L’Manburg and his friends—internalizing a mentality as a scapegoat for everyone around him. He is forced into the role of ‘hero’ despite the title being unfair and distressing to him.
As if that weren’t enough, he’s then beaten to death by his abuser and spends what feels like two months in an afterlife that is worse than hell. When he returns, his senses are excessively heightened. Dream can cause him excruciating pain, just by pinching him. He can send Tommy into an instant panic attack, just by raising his voice.
The punishment Tommy’s character receives is a thousand times worse than everyone he has ever met, or ever will meet. And it shows no signs of stopping, as Dream now has control over Tommy’s very mortality. Tommy now fears the slightest damage and feels as if he’s losing his best friend all over again. He is also forced into a position where he has to kill Dream out of necessity, to protect everyone he cares about.
Characters need fitting punishments in relation to their actions. Not always, but in order to be satisfying? Yes, they do. It is preferred that a main character deal with unfair situations and difficult conflicts, but this is borderline torture p*rn. Putting Tommy in these distressing and abusive situations on repeat and punishing him for doing objectively moral or healthy things is exhausting to watch.
To quickly add, I find the general insinuation of Tommy going to hell distasteful, especially considering the contents of his storyline. I know this may be hard to believe, but Tommy is one of the most moral characters in the plot, besides Puffy and Ghostbur. He’s also the only character, followed by Ranboo, to recognize that they can be wrong and make mistakes. He changed himself in order to heal and be a better person. He was in the process of paying people back for the things he’d stolen.
He’s learned to be hard-working and less violent through the guidance of Sam. He has apologized to everyone he’s ever hurt (with the exception of Jack Manifold, because that man is allergic to communication.) He puts himself in harm's way to protect others. He doesn’t set out to purposely hurt anyone. He goes out of his way to make connections with people and maintain them, even if others don’t reciprocate.
He’s hopelessly optimistic, despite his outwardly bitter façade. He loved so much and put meaning into the smallest things. The thought that a person like him—a suicide and abuse survivor—would go to hell after being beaten to death by the man who took everything from him; it makes me sick to my stomach.
The only thing more morbid than Tommy’s afterlife being different than everyone else’s, is the concept that everyone will end up in this same eternal torture, no matter what they do. Take your pick: Tommy is sentenced to anguish until the end of time for no reason, or everyone will receive the same disturbing ending, regardless of their actions.
The narrative weight of Ranboo’s character is potentially out the window.
For the past few months, I’ve watched all of Ranboo’s lore streams faithfully, curious to see what role he would play in the future. His ‘hallucinations’ of Dream seemed to be sowing the seeds for a plot that has Ranboo taking the fall for every single insidious thing Dream has done. It would also be a tragic parallel to Tommy’s trial.
Ranboo being convinced he was the one who blew up the community house, when Dream himself admitted to doing it, was one of the bigger indicators for me. This is just one of many other unexplained occurrences. Dream seemed to be making an effort to trigger and control Ranboo, especially after Sapnap’s prison visit. It appeared, from the way he went about this, that Dream had some grand use for Ranboo as part of his plan to be freed from Pandora’s Vault.
However, after Tommy’s stream, the way Dream explains himself makes it seem like there was no plan besides seeing if the book worked on people. And if he didn’t after all, then what was Ranboo for? Was Ranboo unimportant? Was Ranboo just some weirdo who happened to phase out when seeing smiley faces and imagined conversations that may or may not have happened?
I bring this up more as a worry, and much less so as an active problem in the narrative. They haven’t actually thrown Ranboo to the way-side or written themselves into a corner yet. In future streams, this could very easily be explained away or developed as more information is revealed.
Only time will tell.
The potential for Wilbur’s future development and importance to the plot is unfeasible.
I feel as if I am the only person on earth who doesn’t want Wilbur Soot or Schlatt revived. There are many reasons for this, but one of them is not a dislike for these characters. I especially adore Wilbur, as he’s one of my all-time favorites. I don’t want either of them resurrected because their stories have already been told. They each had a fitting conclusion that ended their involvement perfectly.
Bringing Wilbur back would especially cheapen the impact of the War of the 16th. It’s the end of a man who was brought to the absolute edge and out of desperation, shame, and self-hatred, he destroyed himself alongside his creation. Bringing him back would leave the climax of the previous story hollow. My biggest issue, however, is that a lack of story importance would likely follow his return.
The only real impact I’d like to see is through a healing arc with Tommy, an apology to Fundy, or a confrontation with Phil/Niki. But that’s really all the potential I can realistically see. While I don’t doubt Wilbur as an agent of chaos, able to create plot out of thin air; what is he going to do now? His country is gone, his friends and family are scattered about, and his mission from the 16th is already accomplished.
What is a well-educated, charismatic politician supposed to do in a world already broken and without nations? Read poetry to himself and cry evilly? However, this is working off the assumption that Wilbur would be returning as his old self.
If Wilbur is resurrected as a ‘villain’ of sorts, then what? He’s not good at fighting in the slightest. He would have no materials. There are no real allies he can make, other than the arctic group. On top of that, there are already more than enough villains to last a lifetime.
We don’t need any more, I promise. Quackity seems to already be shaping up as another antagonist, alongside Sam’s slip into darker and darker shades of moral ambiguity. We also have Philza and Techno, which are already overkill. But then we have Dream who, despite being in a prison, has the ability of selective revival. This is mercilessly overpowered, especially if he makes many allies. The dude could just bring his dead friends back so they can keep fighting forever.
Then there’s Jack Manifold and the Crimson followers; Antfrost, Bad, and Punz. That’s not even including characters who are refusing to get involved. How are Tommy, Tubbo, and Puffy expected to do literally anything to fight back?
Dream’s experiment on Tommy implies he had no backup plan to begin with. This makes his character seem both short-sighted and foolish.
When Tommy woke up after being brought back to life, Dream sounded surprised that the revival worked at all. This instantly shatters the perception that Dream was highly intelligent and thought ahead. With just a few lines of dialogue, it’s implied that Dream killed Tommy, unsure of if the resurrection would even be possible on humans.
Which, to risk something that important, seems unbelievably stupid. Dream needs Tommy, from his perspective. Tommy is his ‘toy,’ the one who makes everything fun. If he lost him and couldn’t get him back, what then? Oh well, everything Dream was doing was all for nothing, I guess.
Why not attempt this experiment on literally anyone else first? Like Sapnap or Bad or, hell, even Ranboo. I suppose it could be that, as soon as Dream got the book, he experimented with it after the 16th. This appears to be insinuated with Friend and Hendry’s revival, although this is uncertain. But even then, he was still unsure of the book’s effect on a human being.
Also, this means, hypothetically, Dream’s entire plan of escape hinged on the experiment working, to begin with, and also on bringing back Wilbur if it somehow did. I find this even more ridiculous. Why Wilbur? That man couldn’t find his way out of a paper bag, let alone get through the traps in Pandora’s Vault. Even if he is intelligent after years* in the afterlife, that’s also a strange assumption.
How do people learn things in the void? Where do they even get this knowledge? I’d honestly argue Techno is a far more competent choice than Wilbur. And even if Dream did bring him back and tell him he owed him his life, what’s to stop Wilbur from just killing him permanently? Or killing himself, continuously?
No way would Wilbur want to be controlled by anyone, ever. The dude would sooner fuck off into the mountains and become a nomad than help a neon green bodysuit cosplay as Light Yagami.
Dream’s discussion about Sam implies that he wasn't playing any part in Dream’s plan, making Sam appear entirely incompetent and neglectful of Tommy.
Dream talked about Sam in a way that seems detached and unaffiliated. He also mentioned him being broken up about Tommy’s fate and not being aware he’s still alive. Dream not being partnered with, or not using Sam in his plan leaves many plot holes. I’ll go through each one. The initial incident was an explosion, coming from the roof of Pandora’s Vault. This did not affect the Redstone mechanism for the doors or dispensers.
Meaning, Sam could’ve had Tommy leave the way that was expected for visitors after he investigated and found no issues. This likely couldn’t have been done in less than a day, but it would be better than an entire week. If Tommy was required to stay for longer, due to protocol, he could’ve gotten Tommy out and then placed him in one of the minor cells for the remainder of the time.
Also, no one else lost a canon life for leaving via the splash potion of harming and returning outside the maximum-security cell; why would Tommy? To add, Sam being uninvolved means that the explosion could have only been caused by Ranboo or Foolish. That, or it was placed long before and timed for the moment Tommy entered the main cell. (I’m going to ignore how ludicrous it is that someone would know the exact time Tommy would’ve entered the room with Dream.)
If Ranboo was the person behind the detonation, this implies he was necessary for Dream to kill Tommy to test the book. But that makes it even stranger. If this was Dream’s goal all along, why not kill Tommy the instant he was trapped with him? It makes no sense for him to wait so long.
Sam is also directly at fault for not letting Tommy out, even after the week was up. There was no reason not to. He already knew there were no issues with the prison at that point. Although, to be fair to Sam, his character may have been paranoid and checking everything more than necessary, just in case. But this still isn’t a good excuse for him ignoring protocol in this one instance, and yet, not in any of the others.
All of these plot holes or inconsistencies would be removed if it was revealed that Dream was blackmailing Sam in some way, or Sam had been working with him since the get-go. That Sam was the person who set off the explosion in the first place to trap Tommy inside. It would also explain Sam’s refusal to let Tommy out and by keeping him in there for longer than necessary.
This can also coexist with Sam’s attachment and care for Tommy. He probably wasn’t told about Dream’s plan to test the book and genuinely believed Dream wouldn’t hurt him. On top of that, Dream is known to be a pathological liar, so his statements about Ranboo and Sam could be entire fabrications.
Who knows?
The Book of Revival invalidates death entirely. The narrative now lacks both tension and consequence.
Another way the Dream SMP differs from other storytelling media is in the way it goes about its character deaths. In a TV show, for example, there will be characters who die just because, or when it’s important to the plot. However, it seems as if the Dream SMP is hesitant to commit to killing its characters. And there are many reasons for that.
The most important one being, killing someone’s character excludes them from the story and some of their livelihoods depend on them regularly streaming on the server. There is also the issue of the cast becoming extremely sparse if characters keep dying. Typically, in stories, when you kill a character, you should introduce another.
This keeps the cast from dwindling as the storyline goes on. This means the writers would have to find new streamers to join, who will develop their own characters and relationships with the plot’s continued momentum. This can be stressful and daunting to those who may be newly added in the future.
Keeping this in mind, the Book of Revival is annoying from a writer’s perspective. When death is no longer an issue for a story hinged on its characters’ mortality, then what do you have as a consequence anymore? We’ve explored every kind under the sun; from abuse, to betrayal, to loss, to destruction.
In stories, traditionally, death is a finality. It’s a conclusion. Whether it’s good or not depends on the character’s actions, its build-up, and the event’s execution. Without this lingering sense of danger, tension evaporates from the story.
Why should I care if Tommy loses in a fight to someone, if he’ll just come back a day later? Why should I care about what happened to Wilbur, if he just returns as if nothing happened? The answer is simple: I won’t. I will no longer care if Tubbo or Ranboo or Sam die in the story, because the idea of revival even being a possible outcome leaves me unenthused and uncaring.
The Dream SMP likes to flirt with death. It teases the demise of its main characters many, many times. More so Tommy’s than anyone else’s. Wilbur’s failed resurrection, which had unforeseen and unfortunate outcomes, is now strange in comparison to Tommy’s, which happened without a hitch.
To be fair, we actually don’t see how many attempts it took. But here’s the problem; Dream could do it without the book being physically present. He’s trapped in a prison with nothing on him, meaning he doesn’t need any materials either. It’s also implied he could do this as many times as he feels, for anyone he wants. This would be exceedingly overpowered, if not for one thing—Dream himself is mortal (at least, I fucking hope he’s mortal.)
If someone kills him one last time, that knowledge is gone forever. And I’m glad they’ve established at least some way for Tommy to win. Because at this point, I was losing faith.
There is also the bare minimum establishment that Dream can refuse to bring back those he doesn’t care for. He can also use it as a shield, holding this power over other people. If Dream is gone, death is permanent. But isn’t that how death is supposed to be, anyway?
What a bleak premise—the afterlife is pure eternal torture while life is cheapened by a lack of consequences.
Conclusion
All this to say, I am cautiously optimistic for the future. I hope dearly that every single one of these can be disproven or developed in the coming livestreams. Obviously, there’s not enough information to really determine what the end result will be, or how everything will fall into place.
Every time I have theorized about the story, it has done something completely different and pleasantly surprised me. I want this trend to continue.
Surprise me again—I’ll be here to see where it goes.
#answered asks#long post#tommyinnit#dream smp meta#dream smp#dsmp#dsmp analysis#this is slightly outdated still but whatever#hope this was helpful anon#tw abuse#tw suicide
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