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as-per-jury · 1 year

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I keep seeing plot analyses and character analyses of everyone in Goncharov. What about Ice-Pick Joe's cat Mrs. Claws and how she is very obviously a symbol of Ice-Pick Joe's humanity despite everything he lost in his childhood? Like she's the last of his family.

Yeah sure he killed people, but it was always for a reason. He made sure to explain everytime. Except for that one break-in scene but that was self-explanatory. Plus Mrs. Claws has definitely killed people too and you don't hear anyone say anything about that.

#goncherov #goncharov #gonchrey #gonchorov #andrey denisov #katya goncharov #katya x sofia #katya zamolodchikova #ice pick joe #ice pick joes cats #cats #martin scorsese #scorsese's goncharov #scorsese #1973

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podcastenthusiast · 1 year

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"Stop woobifying Ice Pick Joe! he's killed people" I have some pretty bad news for you about like every other character in Goncharov (1973)

#that scene when he's dying and he tells goncharov to look after his cat?? my heart #leave babygirl alone #goncharov #unreality #ice pick joe #he's complex ok #lmao. all right I'm done.

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valya-dudycz-lupescu · 1 year

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Musings on Ice-Pick Joe

I'm not sure why no one is talking about Ice-Pick Joe's death scene, especially with rumors of the Ice-Pick Joe prequel circulating the internet.

The scene where Ice-Pick Joe walked by Sofia's window on his way to the fateful meeting with Katya, stopping to lean against the light post long enough to see two silhouettes come together. (I can't be the only one who was getting Blue Velvet vibes in that scene?) Why isn't anyone talking about his longing? The voyeurism? His fear of abandonment stemming from childhood trauma...after all, his mother picked him, of all his siblings, to leave at the orphanage! She left him with nothing but those appleseeds that he carried around in his pockets.

I'm absolutely sure that Sofia was the unnamed child in Joe's flashback (Jodie Foster was so good as the scrappy, androgynous best friend. She did have a limp in that scene when they were running from the cemetery. We don't actually know at what age Sofia lost her leg. And Donny Osmond was the perfect young Ice-Pick Joe!)

If you watch closely, she had the same birthmark on her shoulder in that first awkward kiss scene that Sofia had when she and Katya fought that night of her birthday, when she ripped her blouse and threw her glass of champagne at the wall.)

But back to Joe on the empty street, those shadows against the wall like shadow puppets, and the way the clock motif came back at that moment? Such haunting music, reprised again in the film score during Joe's death (I still cry when I hear "The Demise of Ice-Pick Joe". Linking to it here, because I played it on repeat when the movie was over. Brilliant and haunting.)

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Remember how the flashbacks showed us that Ice-Pick Joe was really superstitious and believed that he had inherited his grandmother's gifts? If you watch the way Joe looks at the shadows and then down at his watch, you can see him hesitate before going to the docks. Was he hearing voices?

Most people agree that the shadows on the wall looked like a child, but I'm not sure that Ice-Pick Joe's hesitation to go to the dock was about his own son. I think the shadows looked more like that kiss flashback when he and Sofia were children. The frame and perspective are almost the same angle, as if they are being watched from below.

Either way, he is clearly making the choice to leave the past behind that brings him to his tragic and senseless death.

I would love to know what happened that took that gentle young Joe who loved to sing and turned him into the tortured stoic we meet in Goncharov, the only affection reserved for his cat, Mrs. Claws.

(I can't help but wonder if they meant for her to be an echo of Le Befana, the Italian winter witch-goddess who sometimes gets translated as Mrs. Claus? After all, his mama's last words to him when she kissed him goodbye were, "If you're a very good boy, maybe La Befana will bring you to a new home on Epiphany morning, a warm home full of food and presents." Poor Joe never finds that home.) You know, I think that was the first time I heard about Le Befana, and that was one of the inspirations that led me down the road to my own version of Mother Christmas.

Does anyone know if it's true that the Ice-Pick Joe prequel got permission to use "Hotel California" as its theme song? I wonder if we're going to get the story of his time as an unskilled laborer in the vineyards of Napa in the 60s? I was never clear about how he got to America and then back to Italy with a small fortune and hitman skills? They're saying it's like Better Call Saul meets the Sopranos meets Twin Peaks. I'm here for it, especially if they can get Cole Sprouse to play young Ice-Pick Joe.

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friendofthecrows · 1 year

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Giggling like a schoolgirl thinking about dark haired traumatized hitmen with unconventional ways of expressing emotions attempting to end the cycle of violence through some sort of sacrifice

#ice pick joe #rei suwa #at least one of them was successful and didn’t have to die for it :)#RIP ice pick joe #glad you adopted a cat instead of a daughter she would’ve been a mess #goncharov #buddy daddies #the fact that gonch was first is funny too bc #my brain latched onto Rei as my favorite character in buddy daddies partially bc he reminds me of Ice Pick Joe 💀#PARTIALLY #I need to draw these guys URGENTLY

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melancholyofautvmn · 1 year

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was bored so i made this

#goncharov #goncharov 1973 #katya goncharova #katya goncharov #sofia #sofia goncharov #andrey daddano #ice pick joe #patchka the cat #unreality #tw unreality #cw unreality

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sassydefendorflower · 1 year

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I know Ice Pick Joe ultimately died to save Katya and break free from the circle of abuse, but I can’t help but weep for the cats he adopted throughout the film as a sign for his inner heart.

Like... I know it was part comic relief/much needed levity for a film as dark as Goncharov, but I really felt for Ice Pick Joe and his five adopted cats. Who do they have now? Ice Pick Joe is gone.

#goncharov #ice pick joe #cats #i mean #i dont even think he deserves better #(but he does)#its just... HE HAD CATS #AND YOU LET HIM DIE #not even that he did choose this ending himself can quell my pain #unreality

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its-blorbin-time · 1 year

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so……….. I just watched Goncharov (1973) and NO ONE was gonna tell me that “kittypet” was a Goncharov reference (!???) and patchpelt’s character was created in honor of patchka and hawkfROSTS DEATH IS BLOW FOR BLOW PLAGIARIZED FROM ICE PICK JOE’S?????? my whole life was a lie I need to sit down

#goncharov 1973 #ice pick joe #patchka #martin scorsese #warrior cats #hawkfrost #unreality

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limegreenmonkey · 1 year

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I know I’m late to the party, but I couldn’t not draw Icepick Joe.

#I'm a sucker for John Cazale #and I kind of lost it at 'loving cat owner'#Goncharov 1973 #Goncharov #fanart #Icepick Joe #Ice Pick Joe #Joe Morelli #gonchpost #gonchposting

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did-i-mention-the-shirt · 1 year

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Since you all keep interpreting ice pick joe's character wrong, I'm here to clear a few things up:

HE👏CHOSE👏HIS👏ENDING👏

He went to Italy to live the life his grandparents escaped from. His M'ma and Pa LEFT so Joe could have a good childhood. But he went back.

He. Went. Back.

This is Ice Pick Joe's whole character!!! Everything he has done is influenced by his own inability to admit someone else may be right. He is never able to leave anything alone and he's convinced his way is always the right one. He is so scared of having anyone else control his story he literally dies so no one gets that chance.

Also, I love how as a fandom we've agreed Joe is a cat-person even tho he owns like 20 dogs

#ice pick joe #goncharov analysis #goncharov #matteo jwhj 0715 #goncharov (1973)#ice pick joe is a cat person #tumblr movies #unreality

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violetfaust · 1 year

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I’m disappointed, Joe. Winter has made a lap cat of you.

Goncharov (1973), dir. Martin Scorsese

#goncharov (1973)#goncharov 1973 #ice pick joe #joseph 'ice pick joe' morelli #patchka #john cazale #unreality #almost done gonchposting #but i said this to my cat yesterday and then thought #wait.#hold on.#i can just hear mario saying that to ipj #op #commit to the bit

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araiz-zaria · 1 year

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A brief moment of respite, a fleeting moment of tenderness

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(a movie still sketch from Goncharov (1973))

#many ppl skipped over this brief scene smh 🙄#ice pick joe #joseph morelli #goncharov 1973 #goncharov #dolce the cat #unreality #drawing #original art #manga #illustration #pen and ink #fountain pen #drawing pen #cats #traditional art #fan art #sort of

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valya-dudycz-lupescu · 1 year

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A Little Goncharov for Thanksgiving

I learned about Goncharov the way I learn about most memes and pop culture, from my teenagers. In the days leading up to Thanksgiving, we had a group chat spring up on Discord that included two family friends who were going to be joining us for the holiday from out of town. One of the topics of conversation turned to Goncharov, the imaginary film around which an active Tumblr fan community had sprung up, as if it had been a real, little-known cult classic from 1973 made by Martin Scorsese.

It became a fun creative exercise—in the middle of the day, one of the kids would send a question about Goncharov: “What do you think about the relationship between Katya and Sofia?” or “What did you make of the clock tower imagery?” or “Goncharov… iphone or android guy?” To which someone else would playfully answer.

This same kind of thing was happening on a massive scale on Tumblr, where artists created movie posters and promotional materials, composers posted songs and soundtracks, people posted deleted scenes and script fragments. There are reviews and academic papers, fictitious Wikipedia and IMDb listings, and A LOT of fan art.

Lynda Carter posted a photo on her Tumblr with Henry Winkler that she captioned, “Me and ‘The Fonz’ at the premiere of Goncharov (1973) at Grauman’s Chinese Theatre.”

Discussions popped up about the characters and who would play them in the reboot. Posts were shared hundreds, then thousands of times. A Goncharov (1973) Lore Google Doc and Discord server were created to help keep the content organized.

Our family’s fan-favorite character was Ice-Pick Joe, so I wrote “Musings on Ice-Pick Joe” in between chopping veggies for stuffing and waiting for the sweet potatoes to roast, complete with some AI-generated art. That was four days ago, and the post has been liked and shared more than I anticipated, and I keep thinking about why that is.

Conversations around Goncharov have continued, and I find myself wondering what it is about this moment in time and this type of activity that continues to capture so many people’s imagination and engagement?

Tumblr is a hub for public fandom culture and community in a way that the other social media platforms are not. It’s where you can find discourse and fanfiction/fanart for almost anything.

Still, this is a little different and on a much larger scale. At a time when people are looking for Twitter alternatives, with the stress and joy of holidays approaching, what is drawing so many people in?

We talked about this over Thanksgiving: the way Goncharov allowed people low-stakes permission to create, to play to their particular strengths, to connect with other people, to escape reality for a moment, to build a new community. We talked about the shortcomings and challenges we saw: power dynamics, issues of race, etc.

It’s an evolving experiment, and as such, it has been shaped by the many variables involved and course-corrected each time someone notices a gap or opportunity: What would a musical look like? What if some of the actors had gone on Sesame Street or the Muppet Show? What if Gonzo played Goncharov and Miss Piggy played Katya? What would the remake look like set in 1980s NYC? What recipes might be created for the Goncharov cookbook? (I remember how much fun we had making the Forking Good cookbook.) There really is no end to what people can come up with. I’m waiting to see if Goncharov gets a Tom Gauld comic or a mention on Saturday Night Live.

It seems relevant that role-playing games, both online and tabletop, have recently increased in popularity. Dungeons and Dragons was the cornerstone of Stranger Things, and 50,000 people attended Gen Con (tabletop game convention) in 2022. It’s not my world, although I’ve watched the joy my kids take in it. My energy goes into writing, but I can absolutely appreciate the fun of playing together.

As a writer, I walk around with worlds in my head, but I don’t get to share them until they get published. Something like Goncharov, which was not an intellectual property “owned” by anyone, gives people permission to imagine and play.

I think it speaks to a need we have an human beings to experience connection, joy, wonder, and hope. We've always had those needs. People have been gathering around fires or tables, telling stories, for thousands of years.

Today, the hearth may be a computer or a phone, but the desire is not that different. My November began with the publication of Mother Christmas, my graphic novel, the secret origin of the Santa Claus story which is rooted in the ancient Muses, whose gifts inspire humanity. One of the questions my story attempts to answer is: Where does inspiration come from?

If we look at Goncharov we can see that inspiration comes from so many places. So much is possible when people given themselves permission to play, to shrug off the inner critics and outer trolls, and to imagine for a moment a different world that they have a part in creating. That is such a powerful and compelling idea.

Stories remind us that we are not alone, that we share struggles, and that we can overcome obstacles. There are so many challenges in the world right now.

Maybe Goncharov is a lens through which people are seeing themselves and each other, reminding us how much fun it is to make-believe and how powerful it can be to have a shared image of the world.

The first step in creation is imagining. Exercising that muscle, allowing ourselves to play and tell stories and make art is a worthwhile one, and I think it's one that we need to survive. The Goncharov phenomenon gives me hope, because if we can have this many people put their energy into creating a whole world around Goncharov, just imagine what else is possible?

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okay-the-great · 1 year

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okay but how is noone talking about katyas cat jumping to its usual spot on the couch in her garderobe at the end of the movie like the symbolism that maybe she actually faked her death there is insane it was underrated

#katya x sofia #katya deserved better #katya goncharov #katya goncharova #ice pick joe #andrey #andrey goncharov #goncharov #goncharov 1973 #goncharov posting #unreality #gonchposting #katyas cat

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paradee-real · 1 year

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Why does no one talk about how good foreshadowing the shot of the cat walking down the street is in Goncharov???? The cat exists for a REASON, think about why it’s outside the cathedral, the same place where Ice Pick Joe gets killed, and cats are often associated with death!

Also, Goncharov’s disinterest with the cat compared to the other characters around him symbolises his growing disinterest with his wife, K(C)atya

#goncharov #goncharov spoilers #katya #cat #ice pick joe

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mcrunchybones · 1 year

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i’m about to blorbify a lobotomized assassin whose weapon is an ice pick bc he enjoys the symbolic revenge who has an ADOPTED CAT. FROM A MOVIE THAT DOESNT EVEN EXIST.

#HES SO SKRUNKLY #SO PERFECT #SUCH A POOR LITTLE MEOW MEOW #AND HE HAS A POOR LITTLE MEOW MEOW #BUT HE DOESNT EXIST #GNGNFNNGNDNGKD #ice pick joe #goncharov #goncharov 1973 #patchka the cat #joseph morelli

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gae-ta · 1 year

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okay so... i think i really need to vent a bit about my new favorite character Ice pick Joe before my heart implodes or something

like did you all know there was a cut flash back scene to how he got his ice pick that almost changes the entire symbolism of his signature weapon?

or perhaps not changes the meaning but rather adds a secondary meaning to it

the cut scene consists of young Ice pick Joe learning to ice skate with his father (who is implied to be a heavily alcoholic man but during the scene he is sober) and the ice pick is given to him by his father in case the ice would break under him so he could get himself back out

and then ofc the ice breaks later when he’s out ice skating on his own but thanks to the ice pick his father gave to him he’s able to get out and back home to safety & then when he’s bed sick with fever he holds onto it like a teddy

that’s why he’s so attached to his ice pick, it’s a reminder of his (rare) good memories with his father AND it’s a tool he can use to get himself out of trouble

like just ffff..... i get that they cut this for time constraint reasons but fuck

the fucking ice pick...

it was a gift from his father, a gift which saved his life, a tangible memory of when his father was sober and had his son’s best intentions in mind

i just--

it’s fucking genius level symbolism guys

the ice pick is a symbol of something meant to save lives but through the cycle of violence inherited by his father it turned into a murder weapon which lead him to his death

like i just.... i just needed to share this okay?

#goncharov #Ice pick Joe #i know it's stupid but i just love the man #he's just so nuanced and complex and if things had just been slightly different #that's what hurts the most #Ice pick Joe is best character imo #he deserves the world #and little Patchka as well #brb writing a cat sanctuary& coffee shop AU about Ice pick Joe

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