some of you need to learn to be less personally offended by writers saying “canon is just the things that explicitly happen in the show/book/movie”

Can you go a bit more in depth about your post about Sokka in the Burning Rock episode? You said that it was basically his suicide mission, which I agree with. I'd really like to hear more of your thoughts on it.

okay yeah i mean i'm sure i've covered all these points before extensively because i love weaving a tapestry of sokka's fucked up psychological landscape more than anything in the world, but every so often someone will comment on one of my posts and be like "i think you're reaching i think sokka is the paragon of mental health actually" and i'm just like um. did we not all watch the boiling rock. did we just ignore the apotheosis of sokka's entire character arc. like katara's apotheosis in "the southern raiders" is both very overt and impactful and also, arguably, subtler than sokka's, because they don't explicitly spell out the themes every five seconds, but like. if you didn't watch the boiling rock then you cannot understand sokka. and weirdly enough i also believe that zuka shippers are the biggest culprit of this despite this episode being thee zucchini episode because they somehow still have the audacity to characterize sokka as "goofy sunshine who exists to comfort zuko" when like. the entire point is that sokka is legitimately suicidal here and zuko is doing everything in his power to support him thru what is quite literally a mental breakdown. like their relationship is legitimately interesting i don't understand how people have taken that and made it deeply boring.....but i digress.

the boiling rock is quite obviously sokka at his lowest. the worst thing that could ever happen to him – fumbling a mission that was squarely his responsibility, from its conception to its execution, due to not being able to sufficiently compartmentalize his emotions, leading to the mass imprisonment of most of his comrades, including the men of his tribe whom he idolized his entire life and felt immense pressure to live up to, including his father who he is deathly afraid of disappointing (for reasons that have nothing to hakoda being malicious or neglectful in any way, fwiw), and thus being directly implicated in the failure and the harm caused by said failure – happened. sokka is someone who is especially bad at dealing with failure, because a) he is exceptionally talented, and thus has less experience dealing with failure in both minor and major ways, and thus lacks the emotional resilience developed through the process of struggle and growth that normal people (such as, incidentally, zuko) go through and b) to sokka, whose primary desire at all times is to protect and provide for others in any way he possibly can, for someone else to sacrifice themselves for him constitutes a fundamental disruption to the order. there is a perverse wrongness to kya or yue or hakoda or suki making sacrifices on their own volition, because it means that sokka has existentially failed to protect them by martyring himself. like, he somehow feels so guilty about suki being imprisoned that when azula reveals this piece of information to him, it literally distracts him from his own mission. and mind you, there's absolutely no way sokka could have known or been responsible for suki's imprisonment. but he still feels guilty nonetheless. and azula knows that, knows exactly how to twist the knife to make him break, because, well, it's honestly pretty obvious.

sokka obviously cannot retroactively save his mother or his first girlfriend, but he can save his father and his current girlfriend. in "the awakening" aang says he has to restore his honor after the guilt and shame of his failure in ba sing se (aang is also an incurable gifted kid perfectionist, btw, as is azula. posts for another time...) and sokka repeats zuko's line again in this episode, after experiencing the guilt and shame of his failure during the eclipse. the driving motivation of zuko's entire character, feeling like he has failed in some ontological way and must therefore redeem himself or die trying, is reinforced through aang and sokka's respective experiences mirroring that drive. aang goes out in a storm and nearly drowns to redeem himself in some vague, nebulous way, because he isn't thinking rationally. and likewise sokka, who usually always has a plan and always thinks things through, feels that caution and foresight is pointless, because he came up with a genuinely brilliant invasion plan and it didn't work, so clearly there's something wrong with him (just as he always suspected) and no amount of planning even matters, because he's a capital F Failure and always will be. and so he vows to save his father, as he promised him he would when they parted on the day of black sun, or die trying, because if he can't even do that then what is he good for; at least he'll die a martyr, which to him, is basically his ideal situation. because to sokka, dying as a martyr is basically the highest form of fulfilling his purpose (being needed, protecting people) and so if he dies a martyr, then maybe his catastrophic failure (that is entirely his fault and rests squarely on his shoulders btw) can be forgiven. so his plan is basically just to sacrifice himself for his father so that he can die "redeemed." very normal, rational, healthy behavior, i would say.

sidenote, i also see people claim that "the boiling rock" makes sokka look stupid because why wouldn't he take any of the insanely talented benders to a prison in a giant volcano surrounded by a boiling lake, and it's like. sokka literally admits that he's not being rational, that he doesn't think he's going to survive this, that this is not a good idea. it would go against sokka's entire modus operandi if he brought the children who he feels a deep, presiding responsibility to protect on a suicide mission that he's lowkey hoping will fail (because he not so secretly loves courting death. it's like she's the moon or something). he only lets zuko come with him because he doesn't actually care whether zuko lives or dies at this point. sokka has absolutely no faith in zuko whatsoever (and frankly, why would he, zuko has yet to actually prove himself to him. he didn't even kill combustion man; sokka did) so he has no idea that zuko is actually going to be helpful and supportive in a meaningful way. and frankly, if he had known that at the beginning, or even remotely liked zuko as a person, he probably wouldn't have caved so easily when zuko invited himself to join. if he didn't think that zuko was objectively worse than him and basically worthless as a human being, i doubt he would have let himself be so vulnerable with zuko in the first place. meanwhile zuko is eating it up bc he's like "omg he's confiding in me he's letting me help him we're basically besties" because he doesn't actually know sokka well enough to realize that sokka doesn't actually do that shit with people he remotely respects. shit like "my first girlfriend turned into the moon" and "i had a feeling this was going to be a one way trip" are simply not things that sokka would say out loud 98% of the time. the fact that he is admitting something real is not a testament to the trust he places in zuko, but rather the opposite. sokka spilling his guts (you know, for him) to his resident collateral damage, sokka bringing his lovingly crafted space sword on this mission, sokka not even confirming whether or not his father is actually there beforehand – he's simply stopped giving a fuck, he doesn't care whether or not he lives to see another day, because to him, he has nothing left to lose.

but of course, that also isn't true at all. i mean, for one thing, zuko still needs to teach aang firebending, so he does serve a pretty important function to the group, and zuko simply telling him to do hot squats in his absence does not qualify as significant tutelage. but also, even more importantly, sokka is integral to the fabric of the group. when he's gone for a day in "sokka's master" they literally all just shut down and start complaining about how much they miss him (we don't actually see any b-roll of the gaang hanging around the western air temple because the episode is simply too busy for that, so who can say whether the same thing occurs twice). sokka cannot afford to simply die just because his first plan failed, he still has a major responsibility to his friends. fucking idiot. i've said before that sokka has the emotional resilience of like. a pathetic wet newborn kitten caught in the rain. but like, come on man. i mean, as someone who has also suffered from debilitating perfectionist issues and never had to be responsible for a failed military invasion that cost my people their freedom, i do get it, but still. not his best moment. although there is something genuinely admirable about the fact that after he finds suki, he decides that saving suki is enough, and genuinely does want to succeed in his mission going forward. like his love for suki is one of the only things that consistently makes him happy and makes him forget that his greatest dream in life is to be murdered, and that's so beautiful to me.

the entire point of this episode, by the way, is that sokka is wrong. if that isn't obvious. sokka's entire worldview, that he only has value insofar as he exists to provide for others, and if he fails to protect people in any capacity, he has fundamentally failed to uphold the one reason he even exists on this earth, and thus he does not deserve to exist unless he is bearing the weight of everyone's suffering or otherwise proving his worth through sacrificing himself for others, is um. fucking stupid???? and incorrect. and stupid. the thing is, unlike zuko, sokka can't really point to any one person who taught him to see himself this way. he can't just face his father and tell him that his abuse was cruel and wrong, because hakoda is a good father who has never not supported and believed in and encouraged him, done everything in his power to protect him, loved him unconditionally. hakoda has inadvertently damaged sokka's psyche in various ways, of course, but never with any intention to hurt him. like, ozai tried to kill zuko, on multiple occasions. it's a pretty obvious indicator of the primary source of harm in his life. but sokka is equally if not more Unwell, and there's no one single figure he can blame, because his complex lies within a tangled web of what my best friend fanon calls the "massive psychoexistential complex" of the colonized subject. he is being dehumanized not through interpersonal abuse, but through the violent logic of imperialism. sokka's formative traumas inform his psychology as he understands that he only has value insofar as he is protecting the people he loves (namely his sister) from being murdered by imperialists, much like his mother did. and that logic is continually reified through the violence he is being subjected to, until he truly absorbs the belief that his life has no value on its own, that he is genuinely Less than [human] in some fundamental way. which is obviously deeply tragic, but also lowkey kind of comical because he also happens to be the specialest boy in the world, who literally did come up with multiple working escape plans at the world's most secure supermax on the fly, mind you! but whenever anyone tries to point that out, including piandao literally saying "you're the most exceptional and worthy person i've ever met in my life" sokka is just like "um. that is incorrect actually." like NO ONE should depersonalize themselves and feel that their only value lies in their ability to serve and sacrifice themselves for others, but it's especially ironic that sokka literally does not think he has any value as a human being, and yet he is also objectively exceptional. like, do you understand why i adore this character so much. do you.

anyway. the point of this episode isn't that sokka has worth because he's exceptional, either. that's lowkey the point of "sokka's master," but also a) sokka doesn't really internalize it and b) the more important part of the episode lies in how much the gaang just misses his company because they miss their neurotic control freak big brother who makes bad jokes. but even if he couldn't come up with multiple working escape plans on the fly, suki and zuko still stay by his side anyway because they care about him. they are demonstrating that they would risk their safety and possibly even their lives, in the exact way that sokka is always trying to for everyone else, for him. that sokka doesn't need to be the one who always protects everyone else, and that he isn't a failure for letting people who care about him help him and protect him. and sokka has to accept their help, because suki and zuko are simply too stubborn not to force him into letting them support him. they are standing in a literal maximum security prison in the middle of a volcano and they are still choosing to prioritize sokka's mental health and wellbeing, which is honestly crazy, but also exactly what he needs in this moment. suki has known sokka for what, 3 days maximum? yes they're soulmates but like, girl get up. and in zuko's case, "girl get up" is magnified tenfold, because he literally risked his life to go with him to the boiling rock (also largely motivated by the guilt of not being able to stage his own prison break with iroh, but still!) and let himself get imprisoned despite being the fire nation's most wanted criminal, stayed by sokka's side no matter what including getting thrown into a literal torture chamber for him, jumped across a gaping boiling chasm with no guarantee that he'd survive except for the implicit expectation that sokka would catch him on the other side. like zuko is so fucking pussywhipped and sokka didn't even value him as a human being until like halfway through their entire mission. insane.

in conclusion: "the boiling rock" is a beautiful story of the most mentally ill boy on the planet (he took first place ever since jet died rip jet forever in our hearts), and his two ride or die bitches who he met like yesterday, and also his dad, and a casual homophobe named chit sang, all working together to demonstrate to him why killing yourself is a bad idea in most cases, probably. it's also the story of the most insane dyke drama of all time, but that's for another post (of which i have of course made multiple, most recently, here). i said it's the apotheosis of sokka's arc, and by that i mean it's the most overt acknowledgement of what his fundamental issue is, and the first steps one must take in actually resolving it (namely, accepting help and support from your peers and loved ones). do i think that sokka is magically cured after returning from the boiling rock? no, probably not (in fact, because i'm somewhat sick & twisted myself, i like to imagine that once the war ends, he actually gets worse). but he does seem genuinely happier after they return. and maybe that's just bc kyoshi warrior pussy hits different, but like. he was able to rely on others for help (including mai my best friend mai) who supported him unconditionally and prevented him from simply giving up, and that's so incredibly important. that kind of support is always important, to everyone, of course, but as we've established, it's especially important to sokka specifically, at his lowest (quite possibly ever), in this situation. no one has an obligation to risk their life for someone else, but sokka is something who thinks that his purpose is to risk his life for other people (namely katara), and so for people who really have nothing to gain and everything to lose in standing by and promising not to leave without him, to actually show that they support him unconditionally is huge. if sokka has no fans then i am dead and so is suki zuko hakoda toph aang piandao iroh the mechanist etc etc etc. perfect episode <3

Ok, so I’m going to finally post this but here’s alenoah the COMPLETE essay: I’m just gonna be talking abt why these two should’ve been canon and showing you my evidence lol. (This is gonna be long so if you’re willing to read this ily)

First of All:

The aleheather plot did not make sense. This is a good ship, I’m not saying it’s bad. But, the volcano scene kinda made it weird. Imagine your confessing to the “love of your life” but then they make you infertile, kick you down a volcano, and are the reason you’re in a robot suit/ traumatized. (Oh but Heather did what she had to do!) LOOK, I’m not saying she didn’t serve in that scene, I’m saying that the fact he was able to brush it off like it was nothing? It just isn’t realistic. Even if he is MADLY in love with her. But then they sacrifice Noah and don’t do anything with him and his unfinished rivalry with Alejandro??

Also I just want to mention the fact that these two would NOT work out after total drama. According to Marco Grazzini (Alejandro’s voice actor, TDWT):

Which I do agree with 😭 I do think that a relationship with 1 narcissist can work (let’s face it, one person in a relationship is more narcissistic than the other. Or not idk.) But if two people are the narcissists in the relationship, it can eventually lead to a break up. Now, you might be wondering why I’m talking about aleheather (understandable). I just wanted to make it clear that I don’t want the aleheather shippers attacking me and how they just don’t really make sense to me as well. And also I don’t want people saying “BUT ALEHEATHER IS SUP-“ stop. (But wait! Shouldn’t you talk about Nemma then?) I’ll get there dw.

Second of All:

Alejandro and Noah had SO MANY weird interactions. No joke. I know a lot of people like to say they didn’t, but trust me, they did. And here’s some proof:

THIS IS NOT A NORMAL LOOK PEOPLE. Honestly, that look on Noah’s face kind of reminds me of som..oh right that’s the exact way he looks at Emma (AKA HIS CANON GIRLFRIEND) this entire interaction was out of nowhere. (Oh but what about the fact that this scene is probably showing how shady Alejandro is) well, every single time a scene like this happens with any other character, we usually get a confessional of Alejandro trash talking them. But did we get that confessional for this scene? In fact, did Alejandro ever directly talk about Noah? NO. NOT EVEN ONCE. Even during London, Alejandro never said one single thing bad about him.

OK SHORT ONE:

The fact that Alejandro mocked Lindsay with NOAH. Alejandro throughout this show has had a fake persona, but then this little comment kind of proved that Alejandro can be himself around Noah. They’re kind of like the same person after all. (I mean that in a “judgy” sense.)

I also want to point out that every challenge (except for London) and every occasion, these two are always next to each other. ALWAYS. They’re always close, they’re always giving each other looks, and tbh it makes so much sense. These two are really the only “sane” ones on team Chris. (Sami, are you SURE they’re always giving each other weird looks?Like-) Child here’s the lil collection:

London 🇬🇧 ☕️:

London was probably the most scripted episode EVER. The entire plot for Alejandro and Noah was so bad, it came out of nowhere. (But Sami, Noah didn’t trust Alejandro in ep 7! Don’t you remember?) ofc I remember Susie. It’s just, after ep 7, nothing was done. Like Noah hates Alejandro. That’s it. Then he bad mouths him in ep 13, Noah’s voted out. A lot more could’ve been done but the writers kill off Noah so more drama can start. After all, Noah’s just a side character, right?

THIS. LOOK.

This exact look is hurt. Pain. And any other dramatic thing I can think of. This entire scene just shows how much he trusted him. It’s like, when someone you truly care about, who you trust, backstabs you. They TRULY had something. (But Sami-) Before you even say “he was probably acting” lemme just show you something:

Right when Noah was abt to jump out the plane, he had a shocked look on his face, then realizes the cameras are on him, and quickly changes into a smirk. HE. WAS. NOT. ACTING. He was HURT. And the wasted potential for the rivalry they could’ve had also hurts. But of course, since this was 2010, there wasn’t any lgbtq couples allowed on CN at all ☹️.

FINALLY:

As much as I do love this ship I think that these two will never see the light of day. (Scratch that, they’re def never seeing the light of day.) These two are both in canon relationships, one of which I actually love! #multishipper. Nemma honestly doesn’t have any flaws and there’s really no reason to destroy a pretty sweet relationship. However, during TDWT I’d like to argue the fact that if CN wasn’t homophobic at the time and neither was fresh tv, then these two would’ve definitely been something. It was like fresh tv was trying to give us clues lol. And if the TD writers would’ve let Alejandro and Noah have a rivalry, then there would’ve been a lot more evidence of why these two should be canon.

Welp, there you go. There’s my entire essay. If you disagree with something or have anything to add you can comment down below! But keep in mind this took 2.5 hours soo…

https://www.tumblr.com/enbyzutara/745302321089675264/im-sorry-to-break-it-to-you-ka-shippers-but?source=share whats ur opinion on this

***

“Non-consensual”

Aang misjudged the moment and kissed someone he had already kissed twice consensually twice before in a moment where that person really didn’t feel like kissing him. That’s not good, but it’s not the same as him forcing himself on her. You’d think the people that like that a ship that literally only exists because the bad guy tied a girl to a tree and fans then made rape-turned-romance fics about it wouldn’t be so quick to judge the protagonist for a poorly timed kiss between two characters that were flirting constantly (and again, have already had two consensual kisses before). 

“It’s not shown as explicitly wrong to the very young audience”

Katara snaps at him after ir. He is kicking himself for it. The whole tone of the scene is “Aang needs to calm to down and not rush into it, he needs to respect Katara’s decision to take some time to think about whether or not she wants to be his girlfriend officially.” The show couldn’t possibly be more clear. Are we supposed to assume neither Zuko nor Iroh feel guilty over stealing that ostrige-horse from Song, despite the show repeatedly proving they’ve changed as people, just because there’s no scene of them explicitly saying the words “That thing we did was bad”?

“The Kataang endgame is just ‘Hero Gets The Girl’“

They were endgame because there were three seasons of BOTH characters having feelings for each other. It was set up from the first episode. It’s not just because “Well, Aang is the protagonist.” It just made sense. Hell, if anything the show was starting to fall victim to the stupid trope of “Main couple cannot get together for real until the last episode, even the story already reached that point naturally before said episode” - it’s the whole reason why they had to force this conflict of the kiss. They were running out of ideas on how to keep them apart.

“The finale, aka the episode in which they get together, coming right after the Ember Island fiasco is a bad narrative choice”

That I agree with. See? It’s easy to criticize the show/writting/characters without blowing things out of proportion.

Hi Rain, Merry Christmas in arears and happy new year in advance. I have read through a good amount of your blog and i gotta say you are one of the most sensible taekookers i’ve come across. I have read ur takes on taekook and jikook and i can say i see where you and other taekookers are coming from when u say you think taekook are a couple even though i don’t agree because over the years, there’s been alot of stuff that have directly or indirectly debunked taekook as a romantic pair (for me atleast)

I do have a question for you and ur followers. What will be your reaction if u come to find out one day that taekook have always been just friends and nothing more? How would u view Tae as a person if we all come to find out that he was infact dating Jennie? We had the whole accidental instagram follow back in 2021, the leaked pics in 2022 and the Paris walk in 2023. After Tae “accidentally” followed Jennie in 2021, he went on weverse and said instagram is a scary app. This entire solo era, Tae has honestly done and or said things which could imply that he is in a romantic relationship with Jungkook. We had him namedropping Jungkook on almost all his lives, talking about going to eat at Jk’s place, talking about songs Jk recommends to him and sings to him, him posting that ss of himself and Jk shirtless, posting that pic of himself and Bam in Jk’s house and we all know that he most definitely knows about what fans think of him and Jk. He has actually replied to some taekookers on weverse before. Some jikookers think Tae did some of those things to distract from his relationship with Jennie and others think he does those things so he doesn’t lose his fans who are mostly taekookers. Now no one but Tae knows why he does all these ofcourse and you taekookers would not find anything wrong with the things he does because you honestly believe he and Jungkook are in a relationship and most taekookers hate Jimin because they think Jimin has been a very bad friend to tae all these years by doing Fanservice with Jungkook even though he knows it hurts Jk. You also believe that Tae gets hurt sometimes when he watches Jikook interact. So my question to you is, what kind of a person would u think Tae is if it turns out that he was never in a romantic relationship with Jungkook but did and said all these things anyway even though he knew exactly what it looked like? I know that right now u cannot even imagine it because u really believe that taekook is real, but you used to be a Larrie and u mentioned that at some point alot of things just didn’t make sense anymore so u stopped. You have already been through that route where u shipped two pple and later realized that maybe you were wrong all along and read things wrong. What if like Larry you are also reading alot of things wrong with taekook? If it turns out that you are once again wrong, would u respect Tae as a person? Would u honestly hold him accountable for misleading millions of fans with his words and actions or would u find ways to continue making excuses for him? I know that right now you cannot even imagine it but what if Jimin and Jungkook have been the real couple all along? Would u think Tae was a good friend to Jimin all these years? All you tkkrs who hate Jimin because u think he is a bad friend and a homewrecker, if we one day find out that jikook is real, would u redirect ur hate to Tae? Would u blame tae for all the things you blamed Jimin for all these years? What about Jennie? If we someday get concrete proof that tae was dating Jennie, how would u feel about the fact that he sat there and did nothing but fuel his taekook shippers while Jennie got hate every single day because of him? How would u look at him after he sat there and allowed his entire fandom to call that girl names and accuse her of using him for clout even though he was really dating her? Would u think Taehyung is a good person if all these turn out to be true? How would u explain the way he behaved sometimes when jikook interacted? How would u explain him saying all those things about Jungkook?I honestly want you to think about all of these and tell me honestly what you would think of Taehyung.

I know that you and other tkkrs love Tae and you believe that he and Jk are a couple but lets be objective here. Tae started mentioning and focusing on talking about Jungkook alot immediately after those photos with Jennie hit the timeline. Now I’m not saying i know his intentions but let’s look at a few things. After May of 2022, we had Tae mentioning Jk on almost all of his lives and sometimes just mentioning him with no context. In June 2022, he did a live saying he would get his tattoo with Jungkook, and then he proceeded to upload a fake tattoo minutes after Jungkook posted his real tattoo. In November he did a live and said he was going to game with Jungkook. At the airport, he said he was supposed to travel with Jungkook, in January he went live and said Jungkook was there at his place gaming with him and his friends, in February he asked Jk to do an instagram live together, mentioned on live that he was going to do a karaoke Live with Jungkook, also mentioned that he was making plans to enlist with Jungkook, does many lives and mentions Jungkook’s names so many times, talks about a song Jk recommended to him (with sus lyrics), talks about Jk singing to him, talks about going to eat at Jungkook’s place, during his entire promotion, he talks about recording at Jungkook’s place, and didn’t give much context until Jk came and explained and gave better context. So Tae is close to his wooga squad too and other members of bts, but he never felt the need to talk about them as much as he spoke about Jk. So if if turns out that Tae was dating Jennie all along, how would you explain these actions of his?

This is just a hypothetical situation ofcourse but i would really love to hear how u would react and and how you will view tae as a person if it turns out that he was never in a relationship with Jk, actually dated Jennie and Jimin has been the one in a relationship with Jk all along. The truth is, everyone is speculating here and no matter how convinced you think u are of ur ship, there is always a possibility that there are certain parts of the puzzle that u missed so u couldn’t come out with the full picture. Think about this and let me know what you and your anons think. Who knows? Maybe in a not so distant future, so many people will be coming back to this ask when think take a completely different turn from what y’all are expecting.

Hi anon!

Merry Christmas (a bit belated) and a Happy New years in advance to you too!

Alright.. let's get the obvious out of the way: You are a Jkkr and you don't much like Tae. You are a very polite Jkkr, and you have read my blog so thanks for that, now let me talk about the way I love Tae.

Tae is my bias. I love al members very much, all of them have a special place in my heart, but Tae is the one who constantly touches me, who has made me realize things about myself, who makes me stronger (even at 41 years old). I feel close to him, because I feel he and I are the same in some ways.. in ways that matter to me. I have always struggled with feeling different. People just don't easily get me, while I always get other people. I have a difficulty making people understand the way my mind works. And I used to think that was my fault, that I was doing something wrong. I've been on a road to acceptance of my weirdness for a long time, and.. even before I became an Army, I was already doing pretty well. I had accepted my weirdness. What Tae brought me was a freedom to also enjoy my weirdness. When I look at him, I see someone who has had the same issues like me, but who is so wonderfull.. I started thinking... who even cares if someone is slightly different from the rest. It's uniqueness. And uniqueness means that some people might not understand you, but others might find you amazing. So that's what Tae means to me. I love how he's soft and cuddly and caring, but he's also sharp as a knife. Tae cares, he cares so much and everyone around him knows it... so why don't you anon?

There's little certainties in shipping. I know I might me wrong about Tae and Jk, but there's other certainties that I do have. I am absolutely certain that Tae and Jk are extremely close, that they love each other even if it's only platonically. I am also very certain that Jm and Tae love each other to pieces. I think fandom has been a thorn in their eyes at times because of the Tkkrs hate Jm and Jkkrs hate Tae issues. I do not think they like serious shipping very much because of it. SO when you aks me, what would I think about Tae if him and Jk are not dating.. I would still think of him the same. My reasons for loving Tae have nothing to do with Tae and Jk. That is just something I noticed, but I do not need Jm to be the bad guy in this story and that is something you have to work on anon.. because you cannot think of Tae kindly wjile also reconciling that with your ship... of which you also cannot be sure. You dislike Tae in favor of a ship that probably isn't real.

If Tae and Jk aren't together I would still think he talked about him that much because they spent so much time together. Tae doesn't talk about Wooga much because when he does a live he is talking to Army. Army knows Jk. Army asks about Jk. When Tae goes live he is constantly reminded of Jk. He talks about him more than other members because they spend more time together.

If Tae and Jennie were real (🥴) I'd think he just went through a toxic relationship that finally ended and was very happy afterwards. It's a weird take to have that he used Jk to hide his relationship with Jennie. Like.. point to the gay to hide a straight one? Maybe they shouldn't have called a pap when they were in Paris then?

I cannot imagine Jkk being real. I mean, to me those two are so much bro-friends I just cannot. There's too much standing in the way for me to think of that as a possibility. Even my hypothetical thoughts end up in me going "nope".

The way Tae behaved at times when Jk and Jm were Jkking is something I would have difficulty explaining if it turns out Tkk isn't real. Because that is odd to me. There's a sadness and an annoyance there that I cannot explain otherwise. I do not feel Tae blames Jm for this, those two are good. If there's feeligns of anger those feelings are for the situation as a whole. Fandom often forgets that members know each other way better than we know them. So Tae knows better what's in Jm and Jk's minds than we do. And that goes the other way around as well. I am convinced that Jm would hate the way you think of Tae, just like Tae would hate the way some Tkkrs think about Jm.

Okay. I’m gonna be a hater.

I’m not against St4ncy because of the association between their first time and Barb dying. If they were good together and she really wanted to be with him, then I wouldn’t be rooting for her survivor’s guilt to keep that from happening.

I’m also not against St4ncy because of the S1 graffiti, per se. From a writing perspective, I think the show over-egged the pudding by making both Jonathan and Steve do such shitty things to Nancy in S1. I believe the creators were mainly trying to make certain things happen plot-wise (there needs to be a photo of the demogorgon, the teen confrontation needs to be immediate and public so Jonathan and Nancy can end up at the police station) and trying to foreshadow Steve’s heel-face turn by making his objections to the photos more reasonable, and they did a clumsy job of it. And I think it’s basically fine for the creators, having realized that this was all too much, to quietly drop it. Such is the nature of multi-season TV. Realistically, it’s wild that Steve and Nancy would get back together a mere month after all of that, but, unless a shipper actually says stuff like “it’s not that bad that he would do that, because he was understandably upset” or “it was just vandalism,” I’m not going to assume that they’re chill with the graffiti.

That being said, the whole “Steve’s feelings were hurt because he thought he was being cheated on and he’s young and it was all Tommy’s fault anyway and he apologized” vs. “Jonathan had no motivations other than intrinsic badness and his youth is not a factor and his apology doesn’t count and his terrible home life is not only not an excuse but a justification for Steve’s tenuously connected shitty actions” thing has soured me on large swathes of Steve fans across the board. I’ve seen too much of the so-called real-life justice system to find this attitude anything other than disturbing. But this isn’t exclusively a St4ncy shipper problem. If anything, they at least usually like Nancy enough not to act like she’s somehow at fault for the photos because she forgave Jonathan later (???) or put her “cheating” on Steve on the same level as the guys’ worst S1 behavior.

My main reasons for disliking the ship (in an exclusive endgame kind of way; I’m cool with Stoncy most of the time and I think they canonically had some good times together) are way more subjective. The first reason is that Jonathan is my favorite and St4ncy shippers invariably don’t like or get him. This is predictable, although not inevitable; Jancy shippers don’t dislike Steve so uniformly, for example. So obviously that’s not gonna work out.

The second reason is that I just don’t find the things people like about their relationship very romantic or desirable. He’s protective of her, but that mainly seems to involve trying to keep her from doing things she believes she has to do or retaliating against others in ways she finds distasteful. There’s not a lot of awareness of her perspective. He wants to be with her “no matter what,” with no consideration for the obstacles, but those obstacles seem to include “what she wants” and “what they are both like as people.” I’d get it more if he was like “I don’t know what the future will bring, but I’d like to give this a chance in the short term” or “listen, I can figure out what to do with my life in Boston as well as anywhere else,” but instead he just does not seem to know her at all or be thinking about what they would do as a couple in the immediate future. After a point, that’s just being in love with the idea of being in love.

Also—and I am not trying to be catty here—I think it’s kind of silly to compare his romantic dreams with Jonathan having reservations due to trauma, poverty, and family obligations. That’s not so much a testament to Steve loving her more as it is an indication that he is relatively unburdened by material concerns. He may be broke, but he’s not dealing with entrenched multi-generational poverty. I’m not saying these things to suggest that Nancy would be wrong to break up with Jonathan—sometimes love isn’t enough—or that Steve is less deserving of love because his life is easier, but I am saying that Steve was kinda born on third base here.

I am not convinced that Steve would do “anything” for Nancy! Nor do I think that he should! That is not a good or sexy dynamic in an equal romantic partnership to me! They should both have other principles and goals of their own! (Also. Is the guy who wouldn’t revise his college essay in S2 really gonna move to Boston for her? I think he’s changed, sure, but not in that particular way.)

THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR TWST BOOK 7 CHAPTER 5

Lilia's love for Meleanor and Revan: Romantic, Platonic, or Familial?

Short answer: ALL of them. ANY of them. A secret third thing. Take your pick!!

Long answer because even though some people have explained it already I haven't felt like anyone has NOT come off as aggressive towards shippers so I thought I could help get the message across?:

So there's been some dispute in the fandom about Lilia romantically loving Meleanor and Revan because Meleanor said that Lilia loves her and Revan, but the actual kanji used by her is a lot less simple than just "love" as explained by @/ventique18 in this post. (which I suggest that you read first before this one so that you understand the true and full picture if you haven't!!)

(here's a few screenshots to sum up what she said though for the sake of this post)

That clears it up, but there's more to this conversation I'd like to point out. As a Briar Throuple shipper I'm making this post to explain or at least shed some light on:

Why people read Meleanor's words as romantic and why they ship Lilia, Meleanor, and Revan

Now, I'm not saying that Lilia having romantic feelings for his friends is the one and only correct view (if you do think that, did you even read the rest of this post?). I'm saying that people viewing it as romantic have a very valid reason and it's not just people shipping because they like to ship when they see the word "love". People shipping Lilia, Meleanor, and Revan are not automatically disregarding any familial and platonic interpretations of their relationship. (or at least not all of them are and I am asking you to not assume.)

Translators are free to mention it if this translation I found is incorrect BUT STILL—

Okay so, if you'll notice, in the conversation between Meleanor and Lilia, after saying that Lilia loves her, she specifically brings up the time he proposed to her 200 years ago. Right after that, she says that Lilia and Revan, her husband, spent more time together than a married couple.

There are a lot of valid arguments that are against these things being proof of Lilia having romantic attraction, like: Lilia and Meleanor were just kids playing house, Lilia and Revan spending a lot of time together is normal because they're besties, and also Lilia himself says that he was just a stupid kid which can imply that it was just an old crush and he doesn't feel the same anymore.

But look at the big picture!! Look at the words Meleanor specifically used!! The kanji used for "love" is indeed for pure, platonic, and familial love, but immediately after saying it Meleanor mentions things specific to romantic love: Proposal. Marriage.

She could have easily used a different example of Lilia's love for him. She could have easily compared Lilia's time spent with Revan with literally anything else, but she didn't!!! She mentioned a marriage proposal from when they were kids. Even if it might not be valid anymore she still mentioned it out of anything else!! And she compared Lilia and Revan to a married couple!!

The words used in this conversation, like the kanji for "love" and the specific romantically-associated words, both point to Lilia's love being either romantic or platonic/familial. The kanji says specifically pure love, but Meleanor's argument and comparison has romantic tone. It's either. It's both. Anything you want it to be. A secret third thing.

That concludes my ramble folks <3 Shippers are not disregarding platonic and familial love, please don't just assume they are. Not to mention, most of the people doing it are DIASOMNIA FANS. THE platonic/familial love enjoyers of the fandom!! Why have I seen people have such bad faith in them? Just because someone says one thing doesn't mean they don't also enjoy another thing!!

Still though, translators helping to explain the wording correctly is still very much appreciated, but it doesn't disregard romantic views nonetheless nor does shipping disregard platonic and familial ones.

Although, I do understand why some people are a bit frustrated seeing as romance IS more prevalent in media and is often wrongly seen as "higher" than other forms of love, which is a valid frustration, but it still frustrated me a bit how I've seen some people be so quick to be aggressive to shippers.

How's v name dropping jk any different than jk name dropping jimin? If I look at it from a non shipping pov.

I believe this to be a very fair question.

You asked me not to talk like a shipper so I will try not to bring up the fact that Jimin is his boyfriend so JK can talk about him as much as he wants 😳

Okay anon. When JK goes live, it's clearly with purpose. His lives are what, a minimum of 1 hour? He comes in, talks about himself a bit. Flirts with Army, laughs, answers a few questions then ends up singing at some point. When he mentions Jimin it's again, with purpose. He's talking about his music, he's reacting to his songs or his shows. He's not saying "Jimin" just for the sake of it. He actually has a reason for doing so. It's with context. And alot of it.

JK is not name dropping Jimin. He's talking about Jimin.

And most importantly he does other things too. I think that's the major difference here. Oh and he talks about other members too!

When we come to V, this man did a 2 minute live. He came live for 2 minutes! I mean, it's basically the norm now. We expect it atp. But 2 minutes? I guess to each their own but damn. I don't recall what the last live was about but 2 minutes is not even enough to tell us what he had for breakfast and if or not he slept okay.

When V comes online his fans are expecting to spend time with him, get updates on him, what he's been up to. U know? I remember V once came live, talked about how he was with JK unprompted, and then dipped. He didn't even care to clarify it was during an online game, thus leaving tkkrs causing a ruckus over JK being at V's. Which there is nothing wrong with JK being at V's, but I have an issue with V always telling Taekook stories halfway. He never gives the whole picture. It's a bad habit. And I know he knows that because he doesn't do it when JK is around.

That's suspicious.

And then anon, V doesn't mention other members. V doesn't do anything else. So yeah, V, name drops JK. He does. He doesn't talk about JK. He name drops. His lives as short as they may be, he still manages to say the word "Jungkookah." And its gonna be a single sentence. Almost like as long as the name has been said, there doesn't need to be more. U get?

I am personally immune to his behaviour, but I see why it looks shady to others. He has 5 other members he could talk about. Yet he doesn't. Not even to mention their name, once. Jin is a video game geek. Do u really want to tell me he doesn't play online games with V? V hangs out with Jimin and Jhope too so JK is clearly not the only one he's seeing but why is he the only one he mentions? 🤔

I won't pretend to know his reasons. I won't even speculate because I don't care. But I can admit it's... strange. It's just strange, anon. Maybe if it had purpose, it would make sense. But as it stands, it doesn't. It just doesn't. I'm sorry.

I am doing my research in media and sub cultures and bts fandom is such an intriguing cesspool of phenomenon. I was talking to a peer about some of these narratives surrounding JM and how they often paint him as evil etc, they raised a good point. Narratives can’t be wiped clean. Stories can be proven wrong. But narratives are more than that. If someone buys into a narrative, proving it isn’t wrong kinda becomes their motive. For instance if person A believes JM is a bad friend to Taehyung and is distracting the youngest with his sexual super powers (typing that out made me gag), ensuring that this narrative is real and true is their goal. The moment you refute it, they go into denial. They double down. Facts don’t matter. Real footage doesn’t matter. What any of the three do and say don’t matter. If it did, flat earthers won’t exist. Climate deniers won’t exist.

PJMs have to start driving narratives from the front, especially using YouTube shorts, Instagram and TikTok about JM, about how HYBE treats him and how he’s a better human than most of the crew. You can’t play fair to fight disinformation. You need narratives that would override it all, that’s rooted in sentiments.

Idk if this is relevant at all to anyone, but please shout for Jimin from every corner and call out everything because this fandom actively works against him.

These are all very good points, but pjms have been doing what you described for ages. Even when I was an army, I observed that one of the main actions solos in general would do is proving how their bias was mistreated and wronged in some shape or form. (Even if it was nonsensical, which in most cases it was) In recent times where the sabotage is still at its peak for Jimin I’ve seen countless threads and vids detailing how hybe fucked him over, or correcting misinfo from shippers. It doesn’t change anything because like you said they’re set in their beliefs and just have unadulterated hatred for Jimin.

There was an anon I had a while back that had suggested that pjms needed to start making positive vids about jimin. Like showing off his personality and talents and I’d more agree with doing that because that’s more likely to bring in new fans or ward off any bad vibes for the fresher ones. I think constantly surrounding the stanning experience of jimin in negativity can turn out to be draining if all anyone on the outside sees is him being dogged on and mistreated. The best thing I’d say is to drown it out with info on him and for people to see how amazing he truly is, cause I’ve seen it work in the past.

howdy i've never done anything like this before but i am nothing if not a snowjanus shipper so here's my offering for day 1 of snowjanus week tehe (wrote this in like 30 mins so it's not my best rip)

no warnings or anything, word count 621

sticky fingers (snowjanus week day 1)

coriolanus snow does not do messy.

so when sejanus plinth showed up that fateful school day—with his bag of gumdrops in hand and his sticky fingers—coriolanus tried to steer clear. as if it wasn’t bad enough that he was district, he had to be dirty too. how many times had his grubby hands been in that bag? and after the boy shoveled a handful of the gumdrops into his mouth just to reach for more, coriolanus knew he’d never go near the things.

unfortunately, it was as if coriolanus was a magnet for the kid, who was velcroed to his side before he knew it. he became the boys unofficial guide to the new school, so sejanus and his sticky fingers followed coryo around like a puppy for the entire day. coryo did his best to be as cordial as possible; not bullying like the rest of the students, but not being overly friendly. and every single time sejanus held out his bag of gumdrops for coryo to freely take from, he vehemently refused despite the growling in his stomach.

it was the dullest day imaginable, of course, giving sejanus many free moments to poke and prod coriolanus about his life. the district boy clung to any answer coryo would give, hanging on his every word, sharing anecdotes about his own life as well.

this is what i get for being nice, coriolanus thought as the boy tried to offer him candy again for the millionth time. when he, again, politely declined, sejanus looked sad but said nothing else.

when the school day finally ended, coriolanus seemed to have shaken the curly haired kid at one point or another and was decidedly glad that he could walk home in peace. that was until he walked out the front doors and saw a group of boys surrounding sejanus, laughing at him. coryo groaned internally—keep walking, it’s none of your business—but he looked up at just the wrong time. he made eye contact with sejanus now, who’d been shoved to the ground and was blubbering, making the bullies laugh even harder. ugh.

coriolanus changed course, heading straight for the group.

“hey, just leave him be,” he heard himself say, putting his body in between sejanus and the group of boys. “he didn’t do anything to you.”

there were a few snickers—oh coryo’s got himself a little boyfriend!—but after enough time they grew bored of coriolanus blocking their access to sejanus and filtered out, with vague threats of being back to mess with the boy again tomorrow. coryo turned to sejanus and, after coming to peace with the idea in his mind, reached out a hand to help him up.

sejanus’ sticky hand gripped his, and he pulled the boy up to his feet. he even bent over to pick up the fallen bag of candy that was somehow even stickier than sejanus’ hands. the whole affair had coriolanus wanting nothing more than to run to the bathroom and wash his hands, but instead he walked sejanus home. it didn’t even seem to faze him that, during the walk, sejanus’ hand snuck back into his and stayed there until they arrived at their destination.

“thank you for being so nice to me today,” sejanus muttered when they’d finally reached his front door. he shifted awkwardly and offered up the bag of gumdrops. “you can keep ‘em.” something about the boy looked so earnest, so vastly different from anything coryo had ever seen, that he found himself accepting the bag and reaching in to take a few. as he walked home with his candy and his sticky fingers, he’d come to find the idea of sejanus’ mess…tolerable.

I think what bothered me about Maiko was how half assed it actually was, and how it had wayyy too little scenes to be considered good or well written AT ALL. User @sokkastyles made a lot of good points concerning how badly written Maiko was, and how it did Mai’s character dirty. But what makes it so funny to me is how much lack of scenes there are for it to be good- let me explain:

We never get Mai’s reaction to Zuko’s banishment. None at all. It’s almost like the writers didn’t even plan this and only mashed them together due to them being single. We see her smirk at the thought of seeing him yes, but there’s no concern over Zuko literally being thrown in prison or possibly killed. I’m not saying Mai’s a bad person but…wouldn’t you worry about your partner? Or couldn’t the writers show her reaction to Zuko literally being burned and humiliated?

Where was the build up besides ONE literal flashback that the majority of people I know forgot about??? Literally, that kiss in episode 1 of Book 3 was out of NOWHERE- it felt like the writers needed to give him a love interest so they had Mai kiss him out of desperation. 😭 But even then with that flashback it was nowhere near convincing that Zuko loved her since childhood or something. And even for Mai it was honestly….eh. It’s a cute childhood crush thing where she may find hm attractive, yes. However how is this supposed to convince me it’s long term like they want me to believe? Plus, we literally see Zuko dislike it when Azula and Ty Lee tease them about being together. There’s no implications of him deep down liking Mai or anything in that flashback. Just him getting angry at it in fact.

Where tf were the scenes of Zuko worrying for Mai after the Boiling Rock? This one I can maybe understand due to maybe not enough runtime but…Wouldn’t you worry for someone you love if they’re going to be imprisoned and possibly punished heavily by your crazy sister??? He knows what Azula is capable of along with the Boiling Rock prison in general. So why didn’t we get any scenes of him worrying for her? If the writers wanted to really convince me on their relationship they could’ve at least give me a scene of him either freeing her or worrying for her afterwards LMAO. “Erm maybe offscreen” yeah, keyword: MAYBE.

Mai never confronted the Fire Nation was wrong. Literally, when did she confront the Fire Nation was wrong? Y’all expect me to believe she’s right for him when she didn’t even see that the Fire Nation was wrong? That’s like if a feminist were to date a man who didn’t support women’s rights- it’s just….blegh. And you wouldn’t support that relationship. Literally, where did she confront Ozai was wrong? She only saved Zuko because she “loved” him. But how are they supposed to be compatible due to those opposing ideals? Seems boring and really lazy ass writing that doesn’t confront those points lmao. “She probably realized it in the room when Zuko told her” he only said “that’s not how I see it” when she told him he was betraying his country. We don’t see a scene where Mai suddenly realizes the Fire Nation is bad. “Maybe offscreen” yeah, MAYBE. And that sort of proves my point Maiko is badly written and doesn’t have enough scenes to support it or make it good.

I can go more into depth on how multiple parts of the writing were flawed whether it be the characters or just the ship in general. However I won’t make this too long and will stop here. Overall, I feel Maiko could’ve had WAY more scenes to sell it to me or be better written. It’s not just the toxic moments that annoy me, but also the lack of scenes and writing. While I do agree it had potential, elements such as bad writing, too little time, etc made it badly written and half assed to me. And I hope Maiko shippers can respect my opinions and thoughts.

So many things have been written already, but since I can't stop thinking about it, I need to write some stuff down. Or as @twig-tea would say #typed so that I can stop thinking it.

We could talk all day long about what the show intended to say or not, what the show intended to portray and what message was actually all of it about.

But, as with most things, we will never know for sure. And you know what? It doesn't matter.

Because when you make anything for others to watch, as soon as the product leaves your hands, you give up any control you have over how it is perceived. That's, more often than not, the hardest part in creating anything. You lose all control over the thing, and all you can do is hope that what you wanted to do, was what people wanted to see, and what you wanted to say, was what people heard.

Sometimes these two things don't match up.

So, I won't speculate any more about what Jojo and co. wanted to say with this, or what they wanted the take away to be.

I'm fan of Jojo. Not in the way of, everything he's done was perfect, but I adore Gay Ok, I completely enjoyed 3wbf and warp effect surprised me weekly in a good way. I was happy. I was content. And maybe that set my expectations too high, because my biggest feeling about ofts finale is disappointment.

Before anything else, I fully admit by biases influenced my viewing of some things, but that is unavoidable.

I started this show relating a bit too much to some of the characters and that made it hard for me in the beginning. Specially when you have people talk about this characters in such a way that, at times, legitimately made me feel bad about myself. So basically I had to create a barrier. And look at this show in a more critical way. I still felt emotionally connected to the chars, but in a different way. And with that critical view came a whole set of new problems.

Whatever the direction the show was heading in the beginning, got completely lost somewhere in the middle. And I'm strictly talking about the writing now. The show lost all coherence in character development and any type of episodic theme went out the window.

I’ll start just referencing the frame works. (very well documented by @slayerkitty) They started as some sort of commentary that we could point to and say, that’s what they’re trying to say about this, that's the lesson this week. That got abandoned.

As I’ve written before, when the show started and we were introduced to the characters, we were led to believe that Boston, Ray, Mew and Cheum were the mains and where going to have equal weight throughout the show. That disappeared when Cheum did. It turns out it wasn’t that way after all. And as we started to see couples forming, or at least coupling happening, we knew who the mains were again. Because we got some (Top not included) of their backstories and povs.

The fear crept in here, that, because it’s gmmtv, we were heading to shipper land and all was but an illusion. But still the in p’jojo we trust was strong so we collectively, said to ourselves – It can’t be that. This is the messy show, with the messy gays, this is Jojo! And at least for me, that’s where it all began to fall apart. Genuine character growth got substituted for easy conflict, depth of character got substituted by fluffy couple moments that seemed out of place. [That is also why the beginning of Top/Mew was so divisive for so many people. Because, it could be cute in any other show, but it couldn’t be here. Because once again - This is the messy show, with the messy gays, this is Jojo! ] We got no accountability for most actions, no genuine character growth for most characters and in the end, nothing feels earned. And personally, it pisses me of when chars don’t get what they deserve, and worst, somehow end up on top, or thinking they are on top, or are morally superior.

But, even if that didn’t make me angry, it’s lazy writing. It’s conflict for conflict sake, it’s new storylines/characters that bring excitement but no follow through. it’s trauma as the easiest way to give a character depth (which I hate with a passion), it’s moral lessons that have absolutely no place here (This is the messy show, with the messy gays, this is Jojo! ) and worst of all it’s wasted potential. I might write more about this later, or on rewatch, but for today this is what I needed to type.

"Lizzie wouldn't leave Tommy alone" debate part: 1?

(This may or may not be multiple parts depending on what I want to say. This hasn't been grammar or spell-checked either I was just typing away and hit post.) I don't understand the narrative that Lizzie for lack of a better word forced herself on Tommy. Implying Tommy wanted nothing to do with her and she backed him into a corner. To get it out of the way, while I am a Tommy and Lizzie shipper I have no delusions about the nature of their relationship, I don't find it romantic and I don't think they were necessarily destined to be together or anything like that. That's one of the reasons I liked them, they were something that happened only because a lot of other bad things happened.

But to get back on topic, I never understood this narrative because it was always Tommy getting involved with Lizzie to me and not the other way around. There's once scene (the one in season 4 with May) that you could say she did, yet, I found it a little understandable. I also think a lot of debates are unfair simply because so much of Tommy and Lizzie happens offscreen to the point either side could just make an assumption and say it's true.

1.) Tommy finds a reason, reasonable or not to involve himself in her romantic relationships and always ends up sleeping with her after they end.

Lizzie haters, love to shout that he had reasons for doing what he did and HE DID! He was valid, I'm not saying he was doing it out of jealously or love but the point is, he would get involved in her relationships and they always ended. Her very brief relationship with John, he didn't actually do anything along the lines of actually trying to break them up. He tested Lizzie, she failed and told John who we assume ultimately ended the relationship with Lizzie himself. The next point is why I even started writing this post is because someone said he essentially wanted Lizzie to kick rocks after this but she didn't 'go away'. If he wanted her to go away he would not be paying her to have scheduled sexual encounters at his office, and the likelihood is that he sought her out not the other way around. (An assumption: It's assumed he sought her out after Polly says he needs to essentially get over Grace.) Then in what seems to be an act of kindness, he hires her as his secretary, if he didn't want her around, I doubt he would hire her to personally work for him. Again, I'm not saying these are acts of lust or love but these acts are proving Lizzie wasn't forcing her way back into his life. It happens again after Angel, this is the only time she's directly told not to see someone specifically. Tommy thought he was shady and she got a peaky order to leave Angel alone. I have a problem with this for one main reason only is because it ultimately just seemed like power move from the blinders because there were other options. We're told Lizzie now held an important role in the company and there was the option of just taking that role back and giving her the option to pick, Angel or her role in the blinders. Tommy or any of them could've just sat her down and asked if she really loved Angel and if she loved him enough to leave her role in the company but they didn't she was just given a direct order. Why, because ultimately they knew she was loyal in my opinion. Which is another reason I think it was just a power move, because unless they thought she would get soft or let Angel in on shit he wasn't supposed to know I don't understand why they were so dicky about this. Unless it was a just do as the blinders say and don't try to get closer to us by dating one of our own. But after all that shit happens Tommy starts sleeping with Lizzie again. How it starts is offscreen and how Lizzie tells it is they basically fuck in his office when he wants to. We don't know exactly how it starts in terms of who initiated it since it's 50/50 but simply due to their history it's more likely that it was Tommy rather than Lizzie. In the end though, it's kind of irrelevant who started it, the point is Tommy has agreed to it. It was something he wanted, not forced into doing. If Tommy wanted nothing to do with Lizzie in any type of romantic sense he would not be initiating sex with her while also kind of getting rid of her other options.

2.) Even when he could service a prostitute he went out of his way to have sex with Lizzie.

First episode of season 4 it seemed their little affair had stopped and Tommy was servicing prostitutes instead. Showing us, that they were always an option and having sex with Lizzie was not the only choice he had especially when she stopped prostituting. That's another point I have but won't dedicate an entire section to, he gives Lizzie the means to stop prostituting and tells her no exceptions just to end up having sex with her himself multiple times. Essentially giving us the idea "no exceptions unless it's me" who isn't leaving who alone again? Back to the point, same season, he takes Lizzie out unexpectedly to have sex where he used to meet with Greta. He could've found a prostitute if he really wanted one, yet, he chose to seek out Lizzie. Again, beating a dead horse here, this isn't to prove 'oh he was falling in love' but that he wanted these interactions to happen, that it's not like Lizzie trapped him and made sure he'd pick her over anyone else. This scene is especially important because it's where she got pregnant. In an interaction he sought out, I'm emphasizing this because it's not uncommon for people to say she baby trapped him. She could've baby trapped him in all of their encounters before, she had plenty of time to do it. We can also address the infamous May and Lizzie dick sizing contest here now. I don't think it was as deep as some people make it out to be, she was just jealous, I think it starts and ends there. She didn't actually sabotage anything, because if I recall correctly later May and Tommy could've had their encounter if they wanted to. Nothing is ever explicitly explained to us, but I personally believe there was some rightful frustration going on, "what the fuck are we doing Tommy?" From her POV their "relationship" has always been on his time and by his rules and this was the one time pre-marriage that she seemed to try and 'get in the way'. It's also highly chalked up to pregnancy hormones because in those same scenes we find out that she's pregnant.

3.) He's Thomas Shelby......

That's another big point that it boils down to me, is that he's Thomas Shelby. There were many times he could've been firm with her or instilled fear into her but he never did. He could've been firmer about the baby situation, he could've told her to get the fuck out when he was talking to May. He could've treated her even shittier than he already did, especially pre-marriage. There was a lot he had the power to do to make Lizzie go away if that was what he truly wanted. He at the very least, clearly, didn't mind having her around.

I'm open to other's thoughts, it just seemed like the whole "Lizzie trapped him" or "Lizzie wouldn't leave him alone" was a popular opinion when if you really got down to it, it seemed like he wouldn't leave her alone, even if he was just being a friend. He wasn't doing anything to remove her from his life he was actually doing things to keep her in it.

So, sokkastyles makes this post about people who criticize Zuko for “I’ll save you from the pirates” act like he didn’t changed and if his redemption arc was non-existent or something. Which is somewhat valid, some people act like Zuko didn’t change and he did grow as person for the most part.

I pointed out “Most people don't pretend Zuko never changed. 'Cause he did. It's just annoying when people romanticize Zuko tying Katara to a tree and stuff when it isn't romantic. It's like romanizing Aang kissing Katara in EIP, it isn't romantic, he kissed her without consent”.

Then sokkastyles said this:

no, it is not like that. A cartoon villain tying the hero to a tree is not like kissing someone without their consent. People romanticizing it is fine, actually. What's not fine is for you to compare what in canon is a nonsexual act to Aang violating Katara's consent, and then tell zutara shippers they are

"annoying" for doing something you don't like that's totally harmless. Go away. You are annoying.

Then after some brief discourse they blocked me and posted this https://www.tumblr.com/sokkastyles/747582627682336768/tying-someone-to-a-tree-is-just-as-bad-as-kissing?source=share

Maybe, just maybe I’m overreacting, but grabbing someone by the hand and tying them up is pretty serious offense that could happen, and is just as bad if not worse than kissing someone briefly without consent. But that’s just me, what do you think?

It really is comparing apples to oranges - but not in the way that idiot assumes.

The Ember Island kiss was "non-consensual" in the sense of "Aang didn't verbally ask to kiss her first" (which is common and normal to some degree no matter how much zutarians lie that "Well, EVERYONE asks first", especially considering they had consensually kissed twice before) but not in the sense of "Katara very explicitly rejected his advances and Aang FORCED himself on her."

She asked for time to think, he jumped the gun, she got mad, he realized it was a bad move and felt awful.

Meanwhile, the zutara tree scene is literally Zuko holding Katara hostage, taunting and threatening her. It's not sexual, but it is hostile - and zutara as a ship only exists because of people MAKING that scene sexual and writting fics of Zuko full on raping Katara. THAT is the base of the zutara ship, no matter how much they deny it. The pirate scene, in zutara fanon, has always been "What if Zuko raped Katara and that made her like him?" That has been the consistent fanon zutara spin on that scene.

Now, zutara fans would tell you "But it's fine to do something like that as long as you know it'd be abhorrent in real life. Fictional characters are not people that are truly able to consent to literally anything, good or bad, that happens to them in a story" - and let me be clear here, they're right. Katara and Zuko are not real. The victim, the criminal and the crime itself aren't real. Claiming "liking zutara is supporting rape" because of those fics would be like saying liking Avatar is the same as supporting the use of child soldiers in a war, or that the writers commited real child abuse against a fictional 13-year-old when they created Zuko's backstory.

But, of course, they can't just end it at the reasonable part. Them enjoying non-con subtext/fanon for their ship is fine because it's not real - but one poorly timed kiss means Aang is the devil and that anyone that likes Kataang is a raging misogynist and RAPE apologist, even though zutarians are the ones constantly going for rape for THEIR ship.

You see why no one takes these people seriously?

I was a bit worried about hearing Zack Tyler Eisen on the podcast because I read someone quote him on saying "it's all in your head buddy" about Zutara, which??? Doesn't sound great, and after how rude Bryke were I grew to be wary of Kataang shippers on the podcast, even though Janet does a great job or keeping them in check as much as possible and Dante is fantastic at easing the tension... I just don't like being condescended to like that, y'know?

But he was actually a great guest imo! He had a lot of unique experiences from the show by virtue of his age at the time, and in general sounds like a cool guy! I kinda thought he may have left acting after like having a bad experience on ATLA or something, but he sounds like he just really found a love for cinematography which is cool and good to hear! Like, he seems to still love engaging with the show every once in a while, and like, good for him!

Anyway this "all in your head" thing does seem to be like? Much more in jest than it may seem when reading it, he was kinda just messing around with Dante, and while I STILL disagree with him because Kataang is gross... He was much more chill about it than I thought, can't really blame him for preferring Kataang when he IS Aang lol

I am... Unhappy because when looking at future episodes to check out the guests I can look forward to (some real bangers, btw!) I saw that him and one of the Bryke duo are on Crossroads of Destiny which. Is kind of infuriating that there are two Kataangers on a Zutara episode, but honestly I'm? Kinda less mad about it than I was after listening to his episode, I feel like he might actually have some interesting things to say there since he said he liked the Guru Pathik stuff so! I guess I'll wait and see how I feel about it after reaching it lol. They better acknowledge that it's a Zutara episode though or istg...

I was originally SO mad when I found out about the Crossroads of Destiny guests being anti-Zutara that I typed out a huge rage post which I obviously shelved because it was completely out of proportion and written when I was barely coherent because I was extremely sleepy, it was all kinda funny tbh I was near on delirious writing it but tbf not all of my points there were completely wrong so? This post and a possible follow up in the future will exist in its stead lol

Also!! I do kinda just wanna throw this out there: I hate Aang and Bryke, but I have never had any issue with Zack for voicing him- he did a remarkable job voicing Aang! It's just unfortunate what Bryke did to his character development, and it's interesting to me that he seems to like the Guru Pathik stuff but? If anything I'm actually really interested in his pov, probably much more than I am in hearing Bryke's extremely biased one (they lied SO much over the years about the development process, wtf!! They've proven to be so unreliable, and alongside their shit takes I truly despise hearing them talk on the podcast lol)

Your Grom Factory post is so right!! I felt like the last parts of it felt off but I didn't know why until I read your analysis. I wanted to like the ending and Ayzee's character so bad because Milan and Ayzee looked so cute together (even if they weren't all that interesting) but Ayzee's final depressing thoughts just ruined it for me :(

I also agree with A Little Hint of Blue being boring. I'm a Vinira shipper so I may be biased but they feel so bland in the comic. I know it's supposed to expand Skara's character but she also just comes off as annoying to me, and it's weird because she kinda reminds me of Anne (her dynamic with Boscha reminds me of Sashanne) but I like Anne and I don't care for Skara. Also the musical scene was cringe, I'm sorry, might be because it's in a comic but still. I did like how the comic kinda expanded on healing and bard magic, the fight was cool even though I think it was ooc for Viney to fall for Skara's trick by the end of it.

So like I said before, I don't want to harp too much on Mark's work without a point. Honestly, if you want to talk about Mark's work with me, my DMs are open, I've talked about him a fair bit on my Discord (in fact, it was voicing that I wasn't certain about posting the blog on Discord that got one of my followers to reassure me I wasn't just being an ass and shouldn't worry so much that led to it being posted) or you can even just ask me non-anonymously and I'll answer in private. I'm not trying to start anything.

With that said, you actually bring up a really good and interesting point in regards to Skara's character that has been digging at me for a WHILE and is useful as a more condensed version of the issues with both Hunter and Amity's arcs who share a lot of issues and I will bring up throughout this as well. A Hint of Blue is indeed meant to expand her character by saying she's a generally and genuinely good person but she has to put on a performance for others. That she is stuck between the person who she is deep down and who society wants her to be. This is effectively the same trick the show does for both Hunter and Amity so A: it is literally nothing new and B: it suffers from similar issues while its specific methodology is a NIGHTMARE to portray well. Worse yet, both of these issues render Skara's character somehow less than the blank canvas it already was.

See, and this is the big part of why I decided to respond, Skara's trick is to show someone with a pure survival response in this regard. She hasn't internalized ANYTHING that people push upon her by what her actions have shown. This means it is all an act rather than these outside forces having had a deeper personal impact. Hunter and Amity, again, suffer similar issues but they at least pay some lip service to the idea that they're not just twin personalities. There is some overlap. For Amity, it's when she is still somewhat cold after breaking the everlasting oath in Covention as even when shown kindness, she still keeps some of that distance. Or heck, just her entire first appearance honestly. For Hunter, it's the constant reinforcement of needing to please Belos. Moments that show that even when the external pressure isn't actively there, it is weighing on their mind, much like how Zuko clearly always had something stressing him out, even when all was quiet. It's part of why how easily Amity throws off her shackles, and how Hunter doesn't actually refute the morality he's clearly been taught, make their arcs and characters weaker because it implies that these pressures never actually got in.

And unfortunately for Mark, he can't seem to decide which version he has and canon supports neither option. In the very first page of the comic, Mark emphasizes A: how long Skara has been being a bully. Not just a bully but enjoying it as even her first act of monstrosity, kicking a sand castle down, is greeted with a smile while she is still very small. This implies some part of her is just cruel. But that's being actively contrasted by B: having her immediately willing to break the bitch code Boscha has in place by apologizing to Viney without any real hesitancy until Boscha speaks up, implying her instincts are to be nice. Mind you, in that first comic she does need to be pushed to destroy the sandcastle... But not to claim be wronged. She first, before the prompting, claims the playground as hers. She's not pushed to be pushy but to stand up for herself and claim what is hers. Not actually inherently unhealthy so long as you aren't a bitch about it honestly which, yes she was being.

And this sort of incongrueny gets better and worse as the story goes on, let alone with the framing of it. After all, the story is trying to frame it as her being a naturally good person who only acts up due to Boscha. This is why Viney, for no reason, is so anti-Boscha. She is meant to be the second world that Skara is being pulled between. When written REALLY POORLY, this is how you get Skara stating Boscha isn't that bad and actually cares in her own way one comic and then literally two comics later, Boscha destroys Skara's chance at romance while mimicking Dio (I know it's Jojos in general but like... Why Jojos there at all?). It's superficial to put it extremely mildly.

As a note, this would actually be the heart of the sort of stuff I would talk about, characters making choices because they fit the tropes of the story, if I decided to talk about the Hallmarks (pun intended) of boring romances. Forced character writing with zero motivation or real flavor is the normal core to that problem.

And well... When your motivations as a character are "I inherently have a heart of gold!" versus "I am the puppet of the most evil fourteen year old on my continent"... You get a really boring lamp that keeps getting passed around. It's meant to expand on Skara's personality but instead it reduces it to NOTHING. Or, it's that her personality is ENTIRELY dependent on whoever she is around and the nice version is the version that Viney gets because she believes Viney will kick her ass otherwise as that is actually the reason the first apology comes out. Or appears to with how worried Skara immediately becomes while Viney rolls up her sleeves.

And since you brought it up and they're PERFECT FOR THIS, let's contrast this with Sasha and Anne. They actually are this sort of dynamic after all. Sasha forces Anne to do things outside of her comfort zone through using their friendship and this is bad for Anne but Anne does it because what Sasha gives her is fun, it's exciting and it's from someone who at least claims to genuinely care about her. Even at her meanest, Sasha is wanting to spend time and make Anne's life better. It's part of why her character is so great. Skara gets lip service in the first comic about liking being on the top of the food chain but all her actions are independent and even the final panel goes out of its way to show Boscha leaving Skara behind, showing the actual gulf in their relationship. It's lip service that Skara will spend literally the ENTIRE rest of the comic saying she hates. She doesn't actually ever act like she ever gets anything out of this.

Then we have the second world pulling Anne: The Plantars. Suddenly, she is shown that you can be loved and cared for by other people without having to do morally dubious things... And she chaffs at it because it does mean more complicated relationships. Hop Pop and her don't understand each other. Polly isn't the gal pal she wants even though she is a gal and a pal. Even Sprig still chafes at her her habits and the like while Sasha may have more cleverly gotten to stop anything she didn't like. This is part of why Anne isn't all that great to the Plantars early on. She doesn't want the work that goes into a real relationship. She'd rather be subservient and have it be simple. It's only through seeing just how much better these people are, and how it feels to have her own autonomy, that she breaks her chains and discards Sasha, at least for a while until they're both in healthier places. As a note, THIS is why S1 of Amphibia is the way it is because this shit takes TIME, let alone while also using an entire town to reinforce these lessons.

Skara meanwhile just... likes the other world. That's really it. She just gravitates towards being nice and real connections, just like Hunter and just like Amity. As always is stated: We're TOLD that she likes being on top but why? It's never even elaborated on with words, let alone shown to us but also yes, this would have extended the arcs overall to show this. Like I said, Amphibia spends a lot of time on groundwork for a reason. Arguably more than it needed to but it still needed a large amount of time to make the payoff and journey as satisfying as it is.. Even TOH understood this with Amity as they pretend for a little longer than a single line that she has reasons to want to be on top until she just drops it all once no one is looking. -_- This attempt to make it less blatant though is part of why Amity dominates a THIRD of the entire series.

And honestly, between this and the enemies to lovers trope from the base show (and actually this too I guess if Viney didn't seem to have some deep seated hate for Boscha that we just haven't been told about yet) I really am getting tired of people seeming to think romance really is a simplistic genre. In fanworks, you get a lot of quick romances, yes, but that's fine. They're normally not trying to claim to be doing an arc or the like with it. They're just bringing two characters they like together. However, romance is an entire GENRE for a reason. You can tell whole stories just around a romance with no other elements because just two people interacting and figuring out deepening feelings is one of the most complex elements for a writer to figure out, regardless of which complex emotion you're choosing. If you don't actually figure that out though, romance tends to be the genre where characters show their narrative purpose fastest. Where you feel the hand of the author forcing the characters together the most. It's why the romantic subplot is such a despised narrative trope. It's why Amity descending into being a love interest is so sharp because capital L LU- LOVE is all she's about now.

And that is the case here too. Skara is all about Viney... Because this is a romance. That is a not deep character, that is a sexy lamp that happens to sing.

======+++++======

I didn't even hint to giving the two moments to bond and have real chemistry instead of just lecturing at each other. *screams* GEE, the romance writer has opinions on romance!? Never would have guessed. I won't even say I'm perfect at it, I'm definitely still improving myself, but it is technically my genre, even back when I was writing harem erotica.

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

A Twitter you can follow too

And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.