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mrghostrat · 5 months

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"He needed an internet connection so he could download an app to draw with, but the whole point of setting the thing up in London was because he knew Crowley understood all of this a whole lot better than he did."

Okayyyyy I just got violent flashbacks to the s2 finale this is evil 😭😭

But in all seriousness, I LOVED the new bnf au chapter, I mean the kiss??? I audibly gasped, it was soooo good

I was wondering if the witch and the witchfinder are a canon couple in the nice and accurate prophecies? Or are they just a very popular fanon ship? Or is it like good omens, where people saw the romantic subtext in the book and where it was made explicitly canon in the show?

I just think all options would be really interesting, given that Crowley and Aziraphale are both middle-aged queer people and the book came out thirty years ago. So they either would have had some representation back then, or they recognised themselves in the story and even though it wasn't canon, maybe those ideas would later explicitly be confirmed by Agnes Nutter nonetheless? Since all these options have really interesting implications for the way they both interacted with the source material, I'm really curious what your thoughts on the matter are.

Thank you so much for all the beautiful things you create for the fandom, both your fics and your art give me life and I'm so grateful for them ❤

omg you have no idea how excited i am about this question 😭 as i've written BNF, i've been quietly fleshing out more about their fictional fandom, and accidentally gotten reeeeally invested and am dying to talk about it 😭😭

i'm actually tempted to make some fanart of the witch & the witchfinder, using michael and david as facecasts to go full meta thphptftf. in b4 i write it as a fuckin book series for real

buttttt i'll put all my N&A thoughts under a cut so i dont ramble too long on your dashes 💛

The Nice and Accurate Prophecy: Agnes Nutter's book series (turned play, turned film, turned tv series); the fandom in my fic Big Name Feelings

the idea of using Agnes Nutter's "Nice and Accurate" book for the in-fic fandom was taken from @tawnyontumblr's fic New Messages (i just thought that would be a fun fanon consistency to follow), but all the details about the story and characters are me.

N&A takes inspiration from Good Omens (as a story, and as a fandom) but isn't intended to be a direct copy of it. the original paperback series is a few books long, and each adaptation of the books are considered good, accurate, canonical content. the tv show (a HBO series) is the most recent, highest quality, and most popular. The Witcher style, high fantasy quality.

agnes is loudly supportive of the lgbt community just like neil/david/michael are. but i imagine that for the series to be so "marketable" over the last 30 years, there isn't an explicit queer relationship between the witch & finder. there are canon queer side characters but the witch & finder are a little more nuanced.

the witch and the witchfinder aid each other through time, working together to defeat the evils in the story (like Aziraphale and Crowley from GO). there's tension between them, but boundless love, and plenty of flirtation, despite the running "we shouldn't, we're meant to be enemies" theme. they would canonically get together at some point in the story, probably towards the end after they've spent some time dancing around each other.

the thing that makes this vague is: the witch reincarnates through the story, almost doctor who style. they're a trans icon, much like how the GO fandom looks at Crowley and all his gender ambiguity.

when they finally tryst with the witchfinder, they're female. it's by pure happenstance that they're female presenting at that stage of the story, but still widely critiqued over the years. the thing that canonises the mlm relationship is that the witch is said to carry their consciousness through each reincarnation— they're not a new person like The Doctor is when he regenerates.

the start of the book series spends more time on "Crowley and Aziraphale's favourite male reincarnation", while the movie and tv show only briefly montages through some of the witch's faces. the mlm side of the fandom most definitely lost their minds over the brief few minutes of screentime that they got of the male witch, and has absolutely gifsetted it to death.

i've done it like this because so much of (every) fandom has always been seeking out representation and filling gaps where the original content lacks. there's something to be said about the solidarity of queer fans creating more queer content for themselves. except, in the case of N&A, they're getting to work from a source material that is genuinely queer supportive, unlike fandoms like SPN and BBC Sherlock that are fighting against the tide of queerbaiting and buried gays.

it also gives aziraphale and crowley a chance to band together in the next chapter when they talk to a dickhead at the party:

i haven't exactly decided what happens with the witchfinder, like if the story takes place over hundreds of years and he keeps reincarnating as the same lookin dude (like how jack whitehall plays both Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery and Newton Pulsifer) or if it's set over one lifetime and the witch just gets killed and regenerates a lot. i do like the idea of there being some "through the ages" shenanigans, and a canonical "modern day" setting like GO has.

but i gotta be careful bc i genuinely can't stop thinking about this fake story that's barely mentioned in my fan fic or i'll end up writing the damn thing myself

#ask a rat #bnf au #good omens au #ratwips

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frownyalfred · 1 year

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Your borderline fic recaught my interest in being in the batfandom rn! I just keep seeing all those posts criticizing characterizations and lack of accuracy in fanfiction and posts in the fandom at large and it kept stressing me out, I’m here to have fun and play around. Your fics in general are awesome and you’re one of the authors my boyfriend suggested that helped pull me in originally, so it checks you’d make me want to stay around. <3 I hope this was okay to say! Keep up the awesome writing and I hope your day is going good <3

Hi anon! Thank you so much! I'm glad you're sticking around in the fandom, we're happy to have you here <3

Look, I've seen those posts too, and I can't lie -- they stress me out too. I've never claimed to write canon-accurate characters or straight from the comics plotlines. There are some authors who do that, and they're great! There's also a ton who don't, and they're also great.

Fanfiction isn't about being accurate to the canon source material. It's about writing your takes on characters, events, what-if scenarios, etc. This idea of "accuracy" only hamstrings writers, creators, and artists.

If I was being "accurate" to some DC source material, my Bruce would be very different. He would be meaner, and much more likely to hit/abuse his kids.

Do I like writing that? Hell no! And who's saying I have to?

This idea that fanon is somehow "ruining" canon and/or canon fanfiction is ridiculous to me. I keep seeing this kind of comics elitism pop up here and on TikTok, and it drives me nuts.

Fans have always, since the dawn of fanworks, taken characters and put their own spin on them. They've done things to your blorbo you hate, or that your friend hates, or your friend's friend really hates.

There was a comment by one TikTok creator on a similar post who asked people to stop telling her to "let people enjoy things" because she felt that that phrase was harmful to her involvement in and appreciation for the Batfamily/DC fandoms.

Well, I disagree. I think we should absolutely let people enjoy things, above all else.

So yeah. Write the OOC Bruce Wayne fic. Put together a Tumblr post about a chat between the Batfamily members that would probably never happen in canon. Draw Dick Grayson in short shorts with a boob window, which now that I say it, they might actually do in canon, but oh well.

Fanon/Fandom enjoyment of stuff like the Batfamily, Batman, Superbat etc is not somehow magically ruining canon. If your understanding and appreciation for canon can't handle when buttfucker69 on Tumblr woobifies Bruce for a mini a/b/o fic, then you need to challenge your understanding of fandom.

We don't gatekeep here. I certainly never will. And I will keep fighting on this point until I eventually leave this godforsaken hellsite.

You are a valid fan even if you don't read the comics. You are a valid creator even if your fic/posts are OOC. Your fanon and fandom experiences are VALID.

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khaire-traveler · 4 months

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This is not an invitation for discourse. I am just stating my personal opinions.

I've been seeing some posts going around lately about myth retellings and wanted to give my opinion on something: I think the helpol community (maybe other polytheistic and pagan communities, too) is honestly too critical and intense about modern retellings (and even some historical ones as well somehow).

I know what it's like coming from that critical point of view. I used to be highly critical of certain retellings and stories that used Greek mythology. They used to deeply bother me, actually, but overtime, I realized that staying mad and fuming about these things I can't change - that will always be created - is really exhausting and even causes me to miss out on some truly interesting stories.

Also, seeing how intense some people can be about retellings has actively discouraged people in the community from writing them. How do I know this? I am one of those people, and I happen to know several others in the same predicament. Some people in the community will rip and tear and claw at retellings as if the retelling murdered everyone they loved. People talk about these retellings as if they're literally destroying the earth itself sometimes - like, seriously, y'all, it's wild.

Once, I saw someone post a short story they wrote - a retelling of a myth that I won't name, as I don't want to give the identity of this person away. This person posted this story with good intentions and was a worshipper of the figures depicted within the story, but still, they got absolutely dragged by larger Tumblr blogs and were torn into and literally chased off of Tumblr. This kind of behavior is not ok for multiple reasons, but the main point I'm trying to make is that we are actively making it harder for people within the community to write retellings. You want retellings from people who actually worship the gods? Then maybe make the community a much less judgmental place because sharing creative works takes a lot of courage as it is. Imagine building up the courage to create and share a retelling just to be ripped into by the very community you are a part of. I'm not saying you can't mention to someone when they've gotten something wrong or have written something potentially problematic, but I am saying that you shouldn't ruthlessly dissect someone's work and rip them a part if they seem to be well-meaning but misinformed (assume the best; not everyone is out to get us; easier said than done, I know). You can give criticism while still being respectful to the original author.

For many of these other authors, however, they likely don't even know that worship of these gods exists in the modern day, and even if they do know, acknowledging it may not be relevant to their story, or even their point. Sure, in a perfect world, these authors would acknowledge our little community and pay homage to actual ancient traditions/culture/etc, but we don't live in a perfect world, and that's ok. It is ok, y'all. Not every author writing a retelling is going to be a literal classics major or historian. Not every author writing a retelling is going to be educated on the actual ancient -or modern - worship of these gods. Not every author writing a retelling is going to pay homage to original source material. Do those things suck sometimes? Yes, absolutely. Do we need to lose our heads over it? No, not really. We can choose to focus on other things - on material and media that we actually enjoy and that do depict things how we'd like them to be depicted.

Now, none of this is to say that there are no problematic retellings or that speaking out on problematic retellings is wrong because hoo, boy, there are quite a lot of those. Some retellings claim to be historically accurate and are, in fact, not; some retellings are written by authors with less than ideal values and ideologies; some retellings are even based entirely on misinformation which can be frustrating to hear about. All of these things are true, but it's also true that not every retelling is out to get us. Not every retelling is trying to attack our small community and the gods we worship. As alarming and offensive as it can feel sometimes, it's important that we take a minute and realize that honestly, authors write stories, and sometimes a story is truly just meant to be a story. It's nothing personal. It feels like we, or our gods, are being attacked, but at the end of the day, we still have our own practices, and we are still allowed to engage with those practices. We are still allowed to worship our gods respectfully, even if others do not. And it is important to acknowledge here that others do not worship our gods. These authors are most likely not worshippers of the Theoi. They most likely do not have relationships with these gods as we do, and unfortunately, they may not have respect for these gods either. It would be ideal if they did, but they just might not, and there's no controlling that.

Honestly, most authors are trying their best. They're trying their best to write an interesting, authentic story that will capture the attention of their intended audience. They want to tell a story based on a mythology that inspired them so deeply, so carnally, that they felt the need to write a whole ass book or create a whole ass game about it. They see stories of tragic heroes, powerful gods, and all those caught in-between, and they think, "This is fucking epic; I'm gonna do something with this." Greek mythology is fucking cool. There's absolutely no denying that, and the fact that so many creators of all kinds continue to create retellings based on the love and passion of a mythology from over 2,000 years ago is pretty damn awesome, actually.

#helpol #hellenic polytheism #hellenic pagan

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seananmcguire · 1 year

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Hi Seanan! I recently threw some more of your creatures into the my DnD5e-ish game I'm running- I homebrewed a Cait Sidhe race, and let my players rescue a colony of Aeslin Mice (redubbed "loremice," so I don't have to figure out what "Aeslin" means when my players ask.) The mice have so far named a God of Smokey Rescue, a God of Deceptive Size, and a God of Ominous Declaration. :)

I realize I could make up whatever rules I want for their specifics, since it's my game and I haven't gotten my players to read your work yet, so they wouldn't notice any inaccuracies. But I think it'd be cool to portray them as accurately as possible to the way you see them.

So! If you're willing, I have a couple questions!

1. Do you know what the rough ratio of Shadow Roads distance to not-Shadow-Roads distance is? I'm homebrewing a spell for the Cait Sidhe Shadow Roads thing, and I'd like to give my Cait Sidhe player some hard numbers to work with when they wanna push the limits of their range.

2. For the same player, can you share what the Shadow Roads look like to a Cait Sidhe? We can assume Tybalt isn't as blind as October is in there, but I can't remember her ever asking him precisely how he navigates.

3. I was gonna remove the Aeslin "God/Priestess" gender distinction for my loremice, because the women at my table would have questions and I wouldn't know how to justify it. I don't expect you'd mind much, but it feels mildly disrespectful to the source material anyway (like, what if I'm just using this as an excuse to remove it, because I dislike this Aeslin habit myself?). So I'm torn. Do you know an explanation I could give my players to make sure they don't mistake the mice as sexist?

3.5. I was also considering a compromise solution to this. I'm considering making all the player characters "Gods" to the mice initially, then having the mice switch to using "Priest(ess)" to refer to PCs who converse most directly with the mice, who make the most effort to force their way past the HAILs and be treated as equals. I'd have them act slightly more casual and less reverent to the Priests and Priestesses, make it easier for them to hold productive conversations with the mice than it is for Gods. I felt this could pay enough homage to your work to alleviate my baseless guilt, while beating the potential sexism allegations. And since I have you here on Tumblr, I wanted to get your input on it- is that uncomfortably far from your vision of Aeslin Worship?

If you can't answer any of these, either because they feel spoilery or because you haven't canonized answers to them in your own head, that's fine! I can figure it out. But you've found time for my Tumblr asks before, so I figure I may as well run it by you.

Maybe I'll add Cu Sidhe as a playable race next... if my players are mature enough to handle how I believe it's pronounced, haha.

This is all very neat, but I started my numbered list before I said that, and can't get out of it!

About 1:10.

The Shadow Roads are absolute blackness even to the Cait Sidhe. They're just a little warmer/it's possible to breathe there, if not comfortably. They navigate by feel, and generally "know" when it's time to exit to the "real world" again.

It's not disrespectful to the source material, honest. The mice who live with the Price family, whether Portland or Penton Hall, are still operating under a foundational commandment that Beth Evans didn't know she was giving, when she told them they couldn't set her above her husband, who they had already declared a god. So the mice aren't sexist, because they barely comprehend human sexual dimorphism: they're just following the orders they were given when they were first adopted by this particular liturgical tradition. A colony that hadn't received that commandment could pick any other set of titles. As a rule, you will have two: one for people who are worshiped but not listened to, and one the other way around.

That works!

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invinciblerodent · 4 months

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and another very small, very minor entry on the list of Things I'm Getting Just a Tiny Little Bit Miffy About Seeing Repeated (Not Angry Just Ever So Slightly Annoyed)TM:

dnd elves do, in fact, mature at the same rate humans do. they're not "like children" or "not considered full adults" until they hit 100- not to anyone other than other, older elves.

like I get where the thought comes from, I fully understand it, I've read many of the source materials myself, I've read Mordenkainen's and see where the misunderstanding comes from, but... to a human, or a tiefling, or anyone else shorter-lived than an elf, a 50-, 60-, 90-year-old elf is just like a 50-, 60-, 90-year-old of their own race would be. they just look much younger than their age, and act in accordance with their personality, which is.... much less tied to someone's age than many may think. (I mean, have you never met a 50-year-old who seems just staggeringly immature? a 20-year-old who is wiser than their years would allow? have you never been to a retail establishment???????)

it's only the other elves who view a younger one as emotionally immature, and that's mainly because they have yet to bury their first generation of friends and loved ones: something a shorter-lived person only has to do once, while elves may very well go through several cycles of that in one lifetime. They have also not yet had their Drawing of the Veil, when they stop being able to access primal memories, memories of their soul's previous lives, but it's mainly the "all my once-powerful and vibrant friends are now frail and dying from old age, and yet here I remain, as young, strong, and beautiful as the day they met me, untouched by the inexorable crawl of time, what is mortality, what is death" thing.

if the people of Faerun in general thought of a 40-year-old elf as immature, as if they were a child, Astarion would have just patently not been an appointed civil administrator and judicial officer (which is what a magistrate is) 200 years ago. like he could have of course been lying when he said that that's what he was, but taking it as the once-truth, nobody would have let someone they see as a child fill such a position of responsibility. It was, however, a perfectly mundane thing for a learned adult man, such as he was, to do. (what he may or may not have done with the power he allegedly had, the kind of person he was, and whether letting him have power was the right move overall, is pretty much completely irrelevant at this juncture. corrupt officials exist regardless of age, just look at the judicial system of any country today.)

an older elf like Halsin, their maturity is not just on a different level, it's measured by a different metric than that of a shorter-lived character.

it's hard to accurately roleplay or grasp something like this with our human minds, none of us have ever spoken to a 300-year-old after all, but.... a 100-year-old elf is not a "young adult", unless you're an elf yourself. If you're a human, they're just... an adult.

#squirrel plays bg3 #at this point “squirrel rants” might be more accurate though #anyway I just read a little thing where the author had Wyll think of the PC as very young #and I thought they were supposed to be like.... 18-23-ish maybe?#nope they were 90 #and I had to stand up and go make myself a cup of coffee so i could stop giggling #oh yes Wyll Ravengard the literal 24 year old thinks Miss Player Character the woman of 90 FUCKING YEARS OF AGE is oh so very young #...... and now I hc that Astarion does tease Iona about her age from time to time #i think he'd enjoy it; especially her giving back as well as she gets without batting an eye #what can i say; elves just do sexy banter different #sometimes hitting on your (65F) immortal boyfriend (240M) just involves asking if he needs a sitdown to rest his creaking knees

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mejcinta · 7 days

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I can see it clearly ... as if it has already happened - like today is but a yesterday.

Alicent is ignored, trying to simp for Rhaenyra, her girlboss goddess. Alicent starts helping Rhaenyra on the DL, working for "Peace". Then King's Landing falls as it is in the book. Then, we get a influence struggle with Alicent and Daemon are both working to influence Rhaenyra on her throne. Rhaenyra chooses Alicent and Daemon fucks off. We introduce Daeron and Daeron is loyal to Aegon, no matter what. And he moves to destroy the Blacks who are fractured. But, you see, he doesn't understand, know we have a girlboss, Lesbian, utopia rising up and Daeron is continuing a war that doesn't need to be fought, because, because ... Don't you see, LOVE WINS!

And the moral of the story is that Westeros could've had a feminist utopia but the bad and evil patriarchy perpetrated by Aegon and Daeron wouldn't let them have it! And Aegon feeds Rhaenyra to Sunfyre and then Alicent poisons him at the end of the series.

I am, about 85% convinced now that this is the story they're telling.

Yeah, these writers and producers are making me very worried about the direction they are taking with Alicent and Rhaenyra. I find no fan fare in discussing them any more as it is contradictory to the source material and totally made up. Why look at them, besides, when there's more book accurate characters like Aegon, Aemond, Daemon and even Baela?

As more time passes, it is becoming clearer that the creative decision they made to have the matriarchs of warring factions 'friends' was a big mistake and that it will inevitably rob the story and several characters of believability.

#hotd critical #rhaenyra vs alicent

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monkey-d-ezekiel · 10 months

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I totally understand why manga readers hate the One Piece anime. like, the anime borderline ruins a lot of the important aspects of the show. I see so many one piece anime watchers who are frustrated with so much stuff in the anime, and like. please try the manga. for your own good. it'll take some effort getting used to, but once you get in the groove you won't be frustrated in that way at all. i promise. Oda has created what is more or less a masterpiece, and here's some ways in which Toei botched it and watered down the experience.

1. Art + Animation

the OP manga has some of the most consistently good art compared to a lot of other series. The shading conveys emotions well, the atmosphere is well built, and Oda makes pretty good usage of the 2D page in conveying 3D movement. The biggest difference is that while the women are still not the most accurately proportioned, there's a lot more emphasis on their facial expressions and overall aura and demeanor.

the anime spoils all this by giving us sloppy character design and lazy animation. since the episodes are still weekly and not seasonal, they have to pump out fast and cheap animation, which makes them overuse still frames, motion blur and overall just not give the source material the effort it deserves. the women in the show have zero detail paid to their facial features, and they all seem to have had their breasts artificially endowed to 3x the size of their head by the ever generous toei animators.

Honestly, the One Piece anime is on par with shows like Dragonball Super when it comes to bad art and animation. Especially post-timeskip.

2. Pacing

pacing is always a big issue that anime watchers point out, and at this point bringing up this issue is like beating a dead horse. it's still extremely important though, because the manga is most definitely not this badly paced. 1 chapter worth of content is animated into 1 full length episode. the length of all the impactful scenes is elongated with reaction shots, exclamations of "woah! a very obvious thing is happening in front of us! unbelievable!", as well as stare-offs, wide shots and unnecessary flashbacks that all seem to last for an eternity.

there are 2-5 minute recaps in every episode as well, just in case you lost track of everything that has happened so far in the story you're following with interest. the manga has none of these issues, and the best part is that you can decide your own pace. if something is boring, just read past it quickly. if it's dense or interesting, slow down, take your time and savor it. the emotional impact of scenes is not lost simply because of how often they're repeated/elongated, as often happens in the anime.

In conclusion, the pacing and art quality of the source material is far superior to that of the anime adaptation, and while I do find it very epic when my favorite manga scenes are animated in the show, I don't think it's reasonable for anyone to put themselves through the grueling ordeal of watching the dragged out episodes of this anime simply for those moments/fights.

If you like the anime, that's great, im happy you're following the story of one piece in the way you find most suitable, and i don't wanna demean you at all because these are all just subjective opinions. but if you're an anime watcher who finds themselves to be frustrated with some of the issues in the anime, i think you could give the manga a try. it'll take some getting used to, but you won't have any of the frustrations that will persist as long as this anime is airing.

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theygotlost · 1 year

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ok. here is my attempt to make a coherent post about the watch bbc.

my main reaction, over and over again watching the first episode, is: CHOICES WERE MADE. truly inscrutable choices for which I cannot possibly understand the rationale or thought process. If I was adapting discworld for the screen, it would ever in a million years occur to me to make these choices. some of these choices include, in no particular order:

cut-me-own-throat dibbler is a white woman with dreadlocs who uses a wheelchair. I can NOT make this up.

vetinari is also a woman. .....I have nothing else to say about this.

instead of a dragon sanctuary, sybil runs some kind of femdom petplay sex dungeon for bedraggled old men. including vimes. and this is how they meet. she traps him in her sex dungeon.

she's also skinny and average height. I repeat: sybil ramkin is SHORTER THAN VIMES.

the actor playing vimes does have a very vimey look about him I won't lie, I even like his little fauxhawk hair situation, but his performance is completely baffling. he's always making an over-the-top jim carrey face but doesn't sell it nearly as well as jim carrey so it's just awkward and not funny.

vimes' accent is also completely unplaceable. I swear it's different in every single scene. sometimes american, sometimes irish, sometimes an american doing a bad impression of an irish accent or vice versa. watching @fealtyfaggot (irish)'s face in real time as he tried to calculate this man's accent was entertaining to say the least.

honestly, every actor sounds like the director instructed them to do an irish accent except they're all bad at irish accents so they all sound weird in their own unique way.

goodboy bindle featherstone is a normal-sized, horrible cgi lizard and sybil uses him like a handheld flamethrower.

the series is attempting (and FAILING) to adapt the events of guards! guards! and night watch simultaneously. carcer is killmongerfied into a black man (not raceblind casting as ciarán pointed out to me, they specifically put out a casting call for a black actor) who is justifiably angry at the police system. and he's carcer. so he's still the main antagonist and a crazed serial killer. he's the bad guy.

john keel was also black and vimes is white, so while it doesn't actually happen in the first episode it seems apparent that CARCER will end up being the one to impersonate keel?!

AND carcer was best friends with vimes and they had some kind of ~history~ together where there was some kind of dramatic betrayal and vimes attempted suicide(?). what

I guess dwarves are.... not short? cheery is normal human height.

carrot's tragic backstory where he was thrown down a mineshaft as a baby (I laughed out loud when he said this) and his adoptive dwarf parents sent him to join the watch cause they hate him and are trying to get rid of him.

just...... why the cyberpunk angle? discworld isn't the most traditional, historically accurate medieval fantasy out there and it's not supposed to be, but.... WHY CYBERPUNK?

I almost forgot: colon and nobby are completely absent.

my only question after watching this is WHY. WHY WHY WHY WHY. why is this a discworld adaptation? why did they decide to adapt discworld in this way? there is absolutely no respect or appreciation for the source material or understanding of what makes it good. whoever came up with this does not seem to like discworld very much at all. every single second of these 42 minutes was a slap in the face.

If this was just its own show, not related to discworld in any way, it would still be pretty bad. But I could still see it having a cult following you know? there would for sure be a niche tumblr fandom for it. the best thing I can say about this show is that it would have been good if literally everthing about it was different.

#the watch watch

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spongebob-connoisseur · 11 months

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@bluebellthesponge

Hmm I dunno tbh. I guess he's just easy to caricature. Bug eyes, crooked teeth, short stature, creepy voice. Even describing it probably puts a handful of characters in your mind.

According to the book The Animated Peter Lorre, there's at least 700+ lorre caricatures/impressions in cartoons. Tho he does include igor-type characters and impressions of an impressions but still, that's A LOT. Too bad the author doesn't give an explaination as to WHY Lorre is so parodied.

I know Looney tunes parodied Lorre because he was one of the popular stars of the day, Looney tunes parodies a lot of famous stars from the 40s so it's not really surprising. I also know in the 90s Looney tunes reboots you have a lot of lorre caricatures because the animators were fans of his movies.

I've heard a story about how Lorre stuck up for the animation union at Warner Brothers and got fired for it and that's why he is caricatured so often as a way to honor him. I kinda doubt the story is true because I can't find a source (and Lorre was more likely fired for beefing with Jack Warner) but if the story is true then it's super wholesome.

Something that is official is Charles Addams (the creator of the Addams Family) telling Lorre that he based Gomez Addams off of him. I know people hate on the 2019 Addams family movies for making Gomez ugly but it's comic accurate because he was based off of Lorre (and the governor of new york in the 30s but that's not important)

I've also heard Lorre parodies are possibly an antisemetic caricature because Peter Lorre was Jewish (his birthname is Laszlo Löwenstein and you can guess why he avoided using it) and let's be real, they often give him very unflattering portrayals. He barely played horror yet is the most affiliated with it, and his "creepier" roles sometimes hinged on the fact that he's a foreigner. It's not a good look. I get that he often avoided telling others he's Jewish and apparently a lot of people didn't know but there's still a weird layer of xenophobia to it that I kinds feel like kinda bleeds into some of the caricatures? That's just my opinion. Most Peter parodies are such copies of a copy that they're pretty far from the original source material. Still, it's food for thought. Especially when making your own Peter parody.

As far as I do know Lorre did like the caricatures, keeping some of the drawings fans sent him and even finding it amusing when others tell him how to do an impression of HIMSELF. Some of those saved fan drawings are still online. My favorite is the drawing of him as a turtle <3 Most of the caricatures was because he was pretty famous for the time.

The most amusing thing about peter parodies is that it's gone on so long that nobody really knows who lorre is, but they can identify his "image" in cartoons. Tim Burton didn't even know Lorre's name when he added Maggot in corpse bride, but he did know the voice and look. That's how it is. (Check out this maggot pin I got recently)

I know for Slappy, Kaz is actually a fan of Peter Lorre and collects his movies, hence why we have Slappy. I remember from Kaz's Facebook where he mentions Slappy saying he never knew just HOW many characters were inspired by lorre. There's also John K (creator of Ren and Stimpy, I know he's terrible) who mentioned on his personal blog that he's a big fan of Lorre which is why Ren from Ren and Stimpy is based off of him. I've notice Ren quotes some Peter Lorre movie quotes, aside from his famous catchphrase "YOU EEEDIOT" of course. (Check out this Ren and Stimpy comic where Ren meets Joel Cairo, a character Peter Lorre played)

I just think it's neat. He shows up everywhere all the time :) I made a joke Thomas The Tank Engine Peter Parody but @thekhaotickrab messaged me saying they found an actual Thomas character with Lorre's voice which is pretty hilarous. Many of these I find amusing because there's no reason for it to exist. Yeah, there's a Peter Parody transformer named Cosmos and he likes scaring people because he's lonely. Yeah, there's several in Scooby Doo for some reason. Yeah he's GOMEZ ADDAMS. He's also a GPS in hotel Transylvania 2. He's also a literal egg with legs in digimon. He's also a lamp.

I heard Lorre's dream was to continue to act forever. He sorta got that wish because he keeps respawning in cartoons forever. I hope this tradition keeps up. Slappy gets a lot of shit but I'm forever grateful to that ugly little fish for introducing me to all of this <3 May the Peter Parody live on forever!

#Bluebellthesponge #Srry i couldn't help but ramble #Peter Lorre #Peter lorre fish #Replies #Slappy laszlo #Slappy Spongebob #Laszlo Spongebob #the spongebob connoisseur

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irelandseyeonmythology · 6 months

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I have been trying to find an answer online but I can't quite find what I'm looking for, if you don't mind can you help provide some insight?

Basically my question is did the medival people of Ireland honest to god believe in pseudo historical texts like the Book of invasions and related traditions. Like they believed in 6 waves of people coming to ireland under Christian cosmology.

Or was this more of a literary tradition for generally understood to be fictional or not quite accurate stories?

So it's been. Months. But if it's any consolation, this DID thoroughly haunt me!

I also cleared it with a colleague of mine who does work on like. Medieval Irish conceptions of history, so it's been vetted by Someone Who Is Not Me, at least the rough outline (I am NOT showing them my Tumblr, god forbid.)

And...for the most part? Yeah. They did. They sometimes argued FIERCELY over little details, like the Tuatha Dé coming in a cloud of mist or whether or not they burned their ships, or whether they were doing it to get away from Lugh. They cited texts that they thought were particularly authoritative, like the Holiest of the Holies, the now-lost Cín Domma Snechtai, they refuted other scribe's suggestions, sometimes very aggressively. I mean, you have scholars into the 20th century believing in this, at least to some extent or another, like Eoin MacNeill in his Phases of Irish History (1919) or T.F. O'Rahilly in his Early Irish History and Mythology (1946). Obviously not in terms of like. The Tuatha Dé as a supernatural race of people, but in the sense of what might best be described as extreme euhemerization, using these medieval texts as a way of trying to unveil a lost Irish pre-history. (It goes without saying this is NOT my approach and not how most of us approach the field, but it was quite common decades ago.)

Geoffrey Keating, in the 17th century, would write his History of Ireland, which used LGE as one of its key pieces of evidence in his attempt to hit back against less than savory accounts by anglophone scholars, of Irish history. "LOOK at our history, LOOK at our glorious past, LOOK at what we can do." It's imminently sympathetic, honestly. (Though Geoffrey shouldn't be taken to be credulous -- he explicitly says that Cath Fínntragha, for example, was not to be taken as a true historical account.) There's a bit, perhaps slightly amusing by modern standards, in his prologue where he says, "Cambrensis [Gerald of Wales], who undertook to give a correct account of everything, appears to have received a medley of fables from some dunce or blind man, for he has said nothing of the conquest of the Tuatha-De-Dananns, who possessed Ireland one hundred and ninety-seven years, during which time nine kings of their nation rules the island."

This is a man who does, firmly, believe in what he's saying and in the veracity of the sources that he has. We also see LGE and the pseudohistorical scheme in general being adopted by Keating's contemporaries, such as Dubhaltach mac Fhirbhisigh (Leabhar na nGenealach) and Roderic O'Flaherty (Ogygia), some of the best scholars of their day and men who...this is my bias speaking, but I trust them. Especially Dubhaltach. I don't have my copy to hand, but the way he speaks about his sources, the way that he's willing to argue with them even as he includes them in his work...I believe him. Or. Let me rephrase that. I believe that HE believed in what he was saying, and I believe in his integrity as a scholar. They're men who absolutely have an angle! But they're men who are using the sources that they have to defend their country from some truly awful slander using the best materials they have at the time, as methodically as possible.

Charles O'Conor, one of the, in my opinion, crucially overlooked scholars of the 18th century, a man who the field owes a massive debt to for his activism and his large collection of manuscripts (some of which, through a story I'll tell sometime if anyone's interested, become the Stowe Collection), was skeptical, saying that Keating's work, "Is a most injudicious Collection; the historical part is degraded by the fabulous, with which it abounds. Keating was one of those laborious Readers, who, in making Extracts, do it without Selection or Discernment; and suchWorks (as the judicious Mac-Firbis observes -- ought never to be published." Personally, while I appreciate boosting Dubhaltach and his work, I think he's too harsh on Keating. It's very easy to judge someone's scholarship when you're living a century ahead of them. He is much more skeptical than Keating, trying to compare native sources up against other contemporary histories of Europe, but he DOES still use LGE as a vital source -- he doesn't discount it or its invasion scheme entirely. He is still very much treating it as a historical document, albeit one that he doesn't fully believe in. (Especially since he's kind of fighting with James MacPherson, of Ossian fame. Because apparently getting into massive public debates with people whose work is enjoying a lot of popularity and that we think involves shoddy research is a time honored tradition in the field.)

But there is a reason why it gets picked up, even into the 20th century, because when you've had your history continually belittled and marginalized, when your language has been driven to the point of near extinction, when you are constantly told that you don't HAVE anything worth being proud of, not compared to the Grand History of England or the classical tradition, that you're a nation of barbarians and beggars...of course you want to believe in it. Of course you want to believe that you can salvage SOMETHING. Especially since these are your ancestors saying it. Your ancestors, reaching across this seemingly insurmountable chasm of time, telling you "look, this is your history." Do I think everyone in medieval Ireland agreed with it? Probably not. There was probably at least one person who was like "well...do we KNOW, though?" In the same way as there were very likely people who thought "King Arthur...did he exist?" Or those oddballs in the modern day who claim the Roman Empire didn't exist. There are always going to be people who are a little skeptical, even of what are the generally accepted truths of a certain time period, but I would say that in general? The trend we see is broad belief, because this is the best historical source that people had for centuries -- they had no reason to strongly doubt it, even if they argued over the details.

#geoffrey keating #charles o'conor #dubhaltach mac fhirbhisigh #the mythological cycle #lebor gabála érenn #irish mythology

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bitimdrake · 1 year

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Do you have fic recs by any chance? You really seem to have a lot of comics knowledge so I trust that you know what’s accurate to the source material and what’s not :)

you know I've gotten a few asks about this and I never quite manage to answer them, because I'm always convinced that I will somehow end up with a perfect and complete rec list if only I wait to reply just a little longer.

SO I'm gonna try cutting myself off at the head this time, and not giving you a prefect list by any means, but at least giving you an answer:

Here is a collection that I'm slowly forming for fics that really feel like they're actually based off comics. It is currently very small and people are welcome to bookmark to it if they find other very comics-based fics, but it's a start.

And a couple random recs as I scroll through my personal bookmarks:

Redrawing the Lines (11k) is fantastic Batman Reborn era Dick & Tim & Damian fic, and it continues as a series after.

also the second before the other shoe drops (8k) about the same trio. AU where Damian makes a murder attempt in a subtler way--but most important, is not demonized by a narrative that instead gives everyone a fair shake.

will we ever get to the other side? (5k) Dick & Tim in a very specific era where Dick's life is falling apart and filled with trauma, and Tim has just been hit with a huge smack of grief and also trauma, and neither is at their best but they're trying.

Everything by @silverwhittlingknife is ideal Dick & Tim content, and all deeply rooted in comics. I will call out:

The Return (11k), which is Dick's pov of Tim coming back to Gotham after Brucequest

only you will have stars that can laugh (9k) which is sad and loney but also sweet on Christmas

Red Letter Day (42k, wip) in which god Dick is trying his fucking best to hold it together okay. (aka everyone is kind of prickly, Dick is stressed, there's a Mysterious Wednesday of unclear importance, and I love them sm)

@flybynightwing has equally comics-based and also absolutely fascinating and compelling fics. I'll call out:

How Far Love Goes (99k) a case fic that draws in everyone in the bat family, with a tilt towards Dick (although the Steph is also fantastic), and turns into a reflection on Bruce as a parent.

goal-oriented mindset (5k) Catalina's pov, meeting Dick again well after everything went down. Subject may not be for you, but I find it SO interesting and roll it around and around in my head. (And it is of the very very rare selection of actually comics-based fics about that arc.)

It's a Wonderful Earth-218 (7k). A thoroughly depressed Dick goes to a world where he was never born, it's a wonderful life-style.

(And carrying on with various authors again:)

Hate and Love are Two Sides of the Same Coin (5k + 13k sequel) every member of his family is forced to say what they like least about Dick. The fic makes no secret of its thoroughly contrived premise and doesn't particularly care to justify it either, but still comes out with great characterization and relationship reflections.

Mikey Dies At The End (4k), outsider pov centered around Jason as the Red Hood, which is so very confident in its characterization of him and has zero considerations given to fanon and it's an excellent read.

A Meditation on Railroading (24k), a Tim-centric fic that deals heavily with his relationship with his dad. This one is not really canon at all, but it is good, and its version of the relationship is compelling.

Young Justice Visit the Suez Canal (3k) look this one is pure 90s-style Young Justice humor. We're here for a good time.

Aaand I know there are many more good fics, but I have run out of steam and I am trying so so hard to remember that some answer is better than no answer. Though I am very sorry to all my beloved writers & mutuals who have written excellent comics fic.

Anyway final tip is when you find an author who knows what they're talking about, go through all their fics, and then go through all their bookmarks.

#*#ask #anon #*dc #dc #fic recs #also a tip: just exclude 'dick is a bad brother'#ignore anything that says damian is inherently evil and bad #and know that 'bruce wayne is a good parent' is lmao so fanon but you should still enjoy it if you want to

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fractalcloning · 2 months

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As I scream into the void seeking a Narek RPer to play against, I have finally caved and must explain why I want this Romulan loungelizard to be more popular. (It won't happen, but I can dream.)

Reasons I like Narek as a character that nobody but me gives a shit about:

Let me preface this with a fact about me: I know Romulans.

I've RPed as Nero for almost two straight years in a large game. I've basically learned Rihannsu back to front for the endeavor. The person who played my Ayel and I both dumped countless hours into developing grammar and extrapolating cultural rules. We were dedicated to making them as believeable and accurate to canon as possible.

I have the whole timeline of the destruction of Hobus/Romulus down to memory. I know about all the neat little tidbits and trivia from comics and adjacent materials etc, etc.

This is to say: I have read and written quite a lot about Romulans in my time. I am very familiar with how they work and what data is available to draw from when writing them.

We do meet a few rank and file military Romulans from time to time, however. So we know how the general military operates in direct contrast to the Tal'Shiar. Caution and secrecy is sort of baked into their culture, which makes a lot of sense given that they're constantly at war with basically everyone, but they aren't (generally) unreasonable people.

In canon Trek, Romulans are often a little over the top with the sneaky-backstabbing-untrustworthy-nonsense. They're almost comical with how much scheming they do, but most of the Romulans we meet in canon are Tal'Shiar. The Tal'Shiar are known, pretty explicitly for the depth and breadth of their sneaky-backstabbing-untrustworthy-nonsense. It's kind of their whole deal, apart from mnhei'sahe (literally the ruling passion honor).

Narek, however, was a child when Hobus went supernova. He is from the very last generation that had any living memory of Romulus. (Elnor is also from this generation and they are great foils for each other, but that's another essay.) Narek is from a (presumably) respected family of--if not Tal'Shiar then Military--operatives. His aunt held high rank, his sister did as well, and both were inducted into the Zhat Vash, an organization that worked so quietly and efficiently that even the famously paranoid Tal'Shiar thought they were a myth. They orchestrated catastrophes and manipulated Galactic law to their ends, one of their members was the head of Starfleet Security and Narissa was on a personal basis with her.

Their underlying culture is present, but it isn't explored very deeply in any one canon source. Taken collectively, however, it is just as substantial as Klingon Battle-lust or Ferengi Capitalism.

Nero was a break from the norm, not because he was vengeful, but because he was the first non-military Romulan we'd ever really seen. His designs, the tattoos, the crew of his ship with their very un-Romulan loyalty, the way he talked and sought equivalent exchange of lives (mnhei'sahe), was a wealth of Romulan culture that we hadn't ever seen. He was a regular Joe, had a regular non-Military job, trusted and worked with aliens to try and save lives. His failure (not his fault) was something he absorbed and sought to rectify in the Romulan way.

Nero was super interesting both for how much detail he cast on Romulan culture, and in how he slotted into the Prime Timeline. Nero was a guy desperately clinging to hope, to the last vestiges of his civilian life, but he was cut free by the destruction of Romulus and set adrift. The only anchor he had in the AOS timeline was his honor and the driving need to balance the scales and restore it.

Narek, however privledge his family was, was a washout. He was a failure. We know he wasn't Zhat Vash, and whether he was even Tal'Shiar is up for some serious speculation. He doesn't act like military officers, and only seems to be play-acting as a Tal'Shiar, miming his sister when it suits him.

Narek may have had authority on the Artifact, but it was probably by dint of Oh granting it. We never get any clarification whatsoever about his rank or dayjob, just that he is fully devoted to helping the Zhat Vash. He is analytical, prepared, but he is not good at thinking on his feet and clearly does his planning off screen. He's meticulous but not especially skilled at hiding or regulating his emotional state. He is far less aggressive and stalwart than just about every other Romulan we've seen...except for Nero.

He was literally a placeholder sent to keep tabs on Soji. He didn't even arrive until Narissa had failed to capture Dahj. That Narek managed to get close to Soji, that he discovered her dreams and correctly surmised what they are, was more luck than skill. Before his assessments the Zhat Vash knew that Dahj (and Soji) could be activated out of their cover, but they assumed that they could capture them. They probably assumed they could torture the data out of them, if not dissect them and rip out a harddrive.

Narek found an easy way to get right to the information they needed. His attachment to Romulan culture is his puzzlebox--Before Nero we had never met a Romulan civilian and before Narek we have never met a cultural Romulan who plays with a toy, we had never seen a child's toy like that. Of course, the puzzlebox (Tan Zhekran) was a mechanism to illustrate his thought process, to make the differences between Narissa and him very apparent, but it was also something from his childhood (presumably). It's a weirdly personal affect for a Romulan and he fidgets with it almost constantly. It's a tell, something he shouldn't have, and it makes him accessible on an emotional level.

Narek is a civilian.

He's a civilian in a family of spies and operatives, raised alongside his sister on the same stories, with the same care. There's no way a Zhat Vash didn't have a family home on Romulus. While Elnor is a nice example of the new generation of Romulans, Narek is one of the last examples of what is used to mean to be a Romulan. He saw Romulus and escaped with all his surviving family when it as it was destroyed. Narek was raised on Romulan tradition (private names for family), Romulan stories about the end of the world, and he is haunted by them because he knows they're true, they're real. His sister and aunt have seen it, seen the message that drives people mad, about Ganmadan. His living relatives have dedicated their lives to preventing it and, even if he isn't actually Zhat Vash, he does the same.

Narek is a failure, by his culture's standards, by his family's standards, but he is also the only one of them who lives in the end.

He's a civilian who is trying, desperately, to avert another Romulan apocalypse. He has already lived through one and somehow this next one is even worse. Like Nero he sees the writing on the wall--but instead of doubling down on the traditional sneaky spy shit, he tries something new--unlike Nero, it works! He makes headway where nobody else could.

Unfortunately, it's kinda fucked up, but he then gives up everything in the pursuit of this goal. (Which to him, seems like a noble one.) Narek gives up who he is (by playing at being Tal Shiar), his safety (he has no idea what Soji is capable of or what might set her off, they only have records of Dahj killing a dozen agents before being blown up), and eventually resigns himself to killing the woman he's fallen in love with (the baseline requirement for giving out his real name). He does it all for the greater good, to save people and he doesn't seem to make much of a distinction between Romulan and other organic lives. He has his little plans, tracking La Sirena in a single cloaked ship, hiding his presence to tail them, firing on them despite being wholly outmatched, allying with Sutra however temporarily, trying to sway Soji again, turning to Rios, Raffi, and Elnor for help--he's willing to do anything because he's terrified that everything is about to end and it will be him who failed to prevent it.

The very last shot we see of him, after his plan to detonate the transmitter fails completely, is him on the ground being dragged away by the Coppelius androids. He doesn't posture or threaten, doesn't say ominous shit like the other Romulans we're used to--He begs. He claws at the ground, trying to stay, and he begs. He pleads with Soji, calls her his love, tries that last ditch hail mary because it's all he can do. He fails his task and she's the last person he can reach out to and, in the end, despite the very real threat to her life, Planet, and Picard, Soji smashes the transmitter. The apocalypse is averted.

Narek failed but he also succeeded. His aunt is dead, Oh has been outed as a traitor, and his sister is killed by Seven of Nine. In a cut scene, apparently, Narek was supposed to be arrested by Starfleet. So he's facing (at the very least) retribution from the androids and the ExBorg. Starfleet is very likely to arrest and interrogate him, if not imprison him indefinitely since he has ties to the Zhat Vash and, subsequently, will be on the hook to explain the Utopia Planetia disaster. Soji hates him, for good reason, and his homeworld is long gone. Narek has nothing...but the world was saved.

Narek is singular because he's all about needing and interacting with other people, he has no real authority, nobody he commands. He's a civilian (insofar as any Romulan can be) and is a soft, emotional boy who hangs on to his childhood toys. He's driven in equal parts by fear and a deep sense of failure, like everyone else in the show, and he takes the steps that seem right and necessary to him (also like everyone else on the show).

Narek was a great contrast against Elnor in every possible way--from his evasiveness to his fear of death--and he was a great foil for Soji. On Coppelius, Soji's terror clouds her judgment and she very nearly does terrible things to protect herself. Her actions, her opinions, her hesitation were all driven by fear. The ends seemed to justify the means. She reflects Narek's state for the whole show. Season 1 is about finding safety and meaning.

Narek is afraid for the whole duration of the show and his choices all reflect that same desperate need to find permanent safety, to live. Soji exists on the peripheral of that with the Ex-Borg, and as a synthetic, and then she falls headlong into it after his betrayal. Narek regrets trying to kill her and the symbolism of his losing that box, of him trying to kill her in a room that is so very culturally Romulan, right after telling her his name, makes it very clear that killing her is killing some piece of himself. But the ends justify the means. He can and will give up everything to save the world.

And his last line in the show is desperately pleading with the woman he loves as he's dragged away.

Then we never see him again or get anything resembling closure for Soji or Narek.

Which I will be big mad about forever, because they didn't even get the bare minimum acknowledgement and closure of "moving on and living life is paramount because it is finite and beautiful ". Nope. Nothing. I'm furious forever.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. I hope if Star Trek Legacy happens we get Narek as a sort of...side character creeper informant ala Garak. I also hope we get Soji on Seven's Enterprise because I love her.

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8o--o8-deactivated20220523 · 6 months

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Something that I genuinely find fascinating about opla from like a creative standpoint is how, if you look the decisions the writers made it becomes clear that they just want to adapt one piece into real life?

They don't want to change it, go in their own direction or "improve" it, they just want to do it irl

When you look at interviews with the showrunners and such, literally every single time they talk about shit they cut, they talk about it like "oh yeah we really wanted to do that but didn't have the budget"

I genuinely believe that any change they made to the source material was just because they didn't have infinite money or they wanted to make it work as a big budget streaming show

I think the most insane example of this is the fact that there are only like 4 note worthy LA only characters : The short marine Nami knocks out at the beginning of the show, the Fishman waiter at Baratie, the guy who offers Nami passage on his ship at Baratie and the bartender who tells Koby and Helmeppo where the strawhats went

That's the caliber of original characters were dealing with, you forgot most of them existed

And usually when you have big budget live action adaptations like this you usually invent some important original characters for the sake of making things smoother or change an already existing character so much that they're essentially an original character, again so you have an easier time doing your own thing/adapting it

They really do not want to do their own thing in the slightest if they don't have to

Sure you can point at the Garp stuff but from the interviews with the showrunners they talk about how big budget streaming shows need b plots like that, again they saw this change as a necessity to make it work as a big budget streaming show and not an indulgence

Literally every single character is almost entirely in character with their original Manga counterparts(with some deviations, the strawhats are less morally grey and Luffy listens to the backstories)

All of them fucking look 100% like the characters and those were originally made to look like stupid cartoon characters

And here's the thing, you can make an adaptation that "doesn't respect" its source material, wants to go in its own direction etc. And have it still be good, being accurate does not equate quality

It's just insane that they took this approach where they're very accurate, literally just want to translate the original story into a new medium, nothing else, with a work that is inherently not made for a live action medium

And I can't stop thinking about how nuts that is, the one piece live action adaptation, in the current adaptation landscape we live in, is the one that tries it's hardest to be accurate to its source material in almost every single way

#one piece #one piece live action #Opla #When I talk about other adaptations I mean American produced ones #Like live action comic book movies or fantasy shows like wheel of time #I would have posted this a while ago but I wanted to ease on opla posts until the strikes were over

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canpandaspvp · 4 months

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KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE SBI FIC THING IM REALLY INTERESTED!! I've always wanted to study that side of the fandom under a microscope but it's scary.

buddy that place is WILDDDD. ok so things you need to know abt sbi side

1. they're damn good writers

2. i don't think they know how to write fanfiction

3. in another universe they create some very well known, published authors

because essentially everything they write is so fucking detached the second it enters an au. with dnf and the general dt side of things, there are differences. sure often times it's a bit more identifiable as fanfiction but that's not a BAD thing. it literally just means people know how to write fanfiction which is what they were intending to do anyways so like hooray

with sbi, i've read SEVERAL (as in i can go into my bookmarks right now and count out at least 10) fics that have just changed and deviated so far from the original source material that it's hard to even understand what they're talking about. in that regard, 100% dnfers get caught out before sbiers, but that's only in the circumstance that they get published at all. sbiers are really creative -- TOO creative, obviously to the point of creation ocs with names and descriptions that often times only vaguely resemble phil, tommy, wilbur, and techno -- which gives them the upper hand publication wise.

that leads into dark sbi which, let it be known, i have NEVER EVER liked. i personally thought it was harsh and unenjoyable but also goddamn did they make some good stories. obviously i read them bc even though i hated the vampires and the kidnapping and shit, it was good. the upper hand of writing fanfiction is that shit is more fast paced and attention grabbing, due to the lack of exposition and shit. so sbiers likely get published first, get discovered on booktube (not booktok cause they only read romance that's packed with tropes to the point of dysfunction), and they at least semi-spread from there until someone is who can't handle any difficult topics in fiction gets upset. but that's a different kind of controversy entirely

sbiers are good authors but they're stuck in this weird limbo of "it's not fanfiction it's just inspired original content" which sort of creates a new genre entirely. they pull some good fanfiction elements into its own realm entirely and it's really frustrating when you want to read fanfiction of something but if you're looking for something fast paced and good to read that aligns with the weird fanon universe they've created, they're your subfandom.

a lot of fics also appeal to personal issues that people are able to project onto easily (i speak from experience) so, while dnf is typically shorter, more accurate, and lighthearted, sbi has dynamics that people often crave in their real life and more people that they can insert themselves into. um that sounds weird but ykwim

they also have The AU's which dnf has but it's just not to the extent that sbi has it. the trifecta:

1. superhero aus

2. royalty aus

3. foster care aus

ran that tag for a good 2 years minimum. those are the sort of Peter Parker Goes On A Field Trip To Stark Industries type of aus where you have a good baseline that people get attached to, so you can sort of rewrite the same story different enough that people feel like they're reading smth new each time. and it works!! if people were to publish an sbi fic (which would likely fall into one of those 3 categories), it'd be realllyyyyyy recognizable just bc it was such a staple in the community. ifl im missing some other big categories but those are just the aus that i remembered off the top of my head that showed up a fuckton

don't get me wrong, i ❤️ dnf fanfiction and you def could publish it if you tried hard enough, but those authors do shit right. the characterization is so niche and specific, the dynamics are so unique, and often times, there just isn't enough in one fic to build and create a story. so much of dnf fanfiction relies on the fact that you already know those two, you know who they are, how they behave, their stakes regarding each other, etc etc. with sbi, the authors end up essentially writing their own stories so much so that they have to tell the story like it's a novel rather than fanfiction. it's very interesting imo esp bc fanon tommy for example is so extremely, incomprehensibly different from c!tommy or cc!tommy, with only enough hits of similarity to keep you hooked into the story with the illusion that you're actually reading the same character, when more often then not, it's like 1/4 tommy, 1/4 fandom misinterpretation interpretation, 1/4 author projection, and 1/4 recycled oc. again, speaking from experience.

also, sbi authors are pretty cocky about their writing, and it's really noticeable when they write a fic with the intention of changing the names and couple minor details to submit to an editing company for a few rounds of revision before they publish their nyt bestseller a few years down the line. they didn't need to leave the fandom to abandon their shit. lorehead analysts have a decent grasp of their content (but i'm biased), but lorehead writers?? different monster entirely. the second dsmp stands for something like "delicious small mtown pforsuperherovillanvigilanteshenanigans" then you know they're too far gone. they're attached to THEIR characters, not the dsmp's; if it means sacrificing the original source material for real life recognition, they'd do it in a heartbeat. i don't blame them but the point still stands.

this is all over the place i'm so sorry idek if i said anything you wanted to know but

tl;dr sbi fanfiction sort of became its own medium between fanfiction and original work so they're more likely to get published, but they fall into the same dynamics in the same type of universes that would easily get them figured out. dnf writers just seem to mind their damn business more. anyway, most dnf writers that left the fandom seem to want to completely forget that they ever did That. usually they just orphan/delete and move on cause they're embarrassed.

sorry again i'm so not good at explaining my thoughts but i did NOT spend 2 1/2 years reading sbi fanfiction 24/7 for nothing. i need to put my experience to use somehow so thanks for letting me do that 😭😭😭

#at least i'm not gonna do another separate essay rant in the notes like i usually do #💀#🍓.ask

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