#and s3 lucas was just being a teenage boy | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

mabelmidnight-takeover · 2 years

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they were so explicit with lucas' motives to try to become popular but people still took it and put it against him 🥴🥴

#yeah sure it must be bc he's an awful character #not bc of racism or whatever 🥴#no bc ive seen people saying he's been the worst in every season????#lucas literally didn't do anything but support his friends and have a crush in s1-2???????#he was rightfully suspicious of el in s1 you dont find an unknown girl with mind powers and is immediately okay with it????#and s3 lucas was just being a teenage boy #he never once stop supporting his friends he's always been a good kid and he didn't do anything bad #and s4 lucas was CLEAR on his motives to join the basketball team #lucas always supported the others this was the one time he was asking for the support back #people have a stick so up their asses they don't realize they swap the roles of the core four depending on the season #s1 lucas was suspicious of el mike kept insisting on her in the group #s2 mike was suspicious of max lucas kept insisting on her in the group #s3 will wanted to play dnd lucas and mike had other activities in mind #s4 lucas wanted to focus on basketball mike and dustin had other activities in mind #i cant think of one with dustin but these ones always stood out to me #lucas and mike are always paralleling each other #and yeah mike gets a shit ton of hate for the way he acted on s3 ((which still is bad bc it's most likely due to internalized homophobia #but at least he actually did something bad?? he has my full support bc it should be clear he's going through internal conflict #but to the general audience he acted like and asshole #what did lucas do????#he joined the basketball team to stop the bullying with him AND his friends #the first chance he got he tried to warn dustin jason was after him #and as soon as he could he gave them fake intel and ran away back to his friends #like they were so clear of why lucas was acting this way this season and people still fucking refuse to see #the group has conflicts between them every damn season it doesn't mean that they're less friends it just means they're going through smth #stop pissing me off #stranger things #lucas sinclair

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l393ndjean · 3 months

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What I Need in St5 (That isn't ship related)

I need Will to save El from something. I need Will to not be a damsel in distress and El to not be a superhero. Not for the whole season or anything, but like, he saves her from a demogorgon by thinking outside the box. Will isn't violent and subverting their current roles by making him violent doesn't sit right with me. This would prove that yes, Will does care for El, and vice versa, which some people are still skeptical about fsr.

More of Robin and Nancy being best friends. And, address Nancy's trauma of losing Barb and how that affects her friendship with Robin. I want to see Nancy being protective of Robin, never wanting to let her out of her sight. And I need Robin to remind her that hey, despite it all, they're still young. They're teenagers. I need Robin to remind Nancy that she can still have fun, and that it's not her fault that Barb died. (Also I need them to solve the mystery together, their detective dynamic is so great.)

I need Vickie to befriend Jonathan. I need to know more about her as a person, not just as Robin's crush. If Argyle's not gonna be around this season I need Jonathan to have a friend, who he isn't linked to in a weird way (Steve is his girlfriend's ex and his ex bully and as much as I wanna see them interact and form a friendship, I also need him to befriend Vickie.) Jonathan's character development into making friends with her could also be quite interesting. He's never really interacted with anyone his age other than Nancy. (I love his dynamic with Argyle, but I also really need to see him with a... less high person.)

The party interacting, as a whole. Combining their knowledge to solve problems, arguing over stupid shit and getting to be teenagers for once. I need my nerdy little boys to be together for once, they're always separated. When they're together they're unstoppable.

El interacting with Lucas! Oh my gods, since season one we've scarcely seen them in the same room! I need to see them bonding over their grief, and working together on where Max's consciousness is. I need them to bond over high school and feeling like they have to be someone else to fit in. (We're getting this for sure, but I need this more than oxygen.)

I need Mike to be leading THE PLAN! When Mike leads the plan, they win. S1, they saved Will, S2 they saved Will and closed the gate. Both times Mike was heavily involved in forming the plan. In S3 Mike's Sauna Test worked, it confirmed that Billy was flayed. And his physics moment. But in S4? They lost. Why? Because Mike wasn't involved in the plan!

I have way more but that's enough for one night, lol.

#mike wheeler #will byers #el hopper #el hopper byers #max mayfield #stranger things #st5 hopes #st5 speculation #st5 #stranger things 5 #robin buckley #nancy wheeler #lucas sinclair #dustin henderson #jonathan byers #steve harrington #vickie stranger things #no ships #jean's favourites

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chirpsythismorning · 8 months

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Some of the evidence supporting Mike not being in love with El is brutal. No, but seriously.

In s3, when El's leg is injured, instead of Mike putting his arm around her waist, allowing him to take some of the weight off her injured leg, he puts his arm around her shoulder, basically having the exact opposite affect of taking the weight off of her, instead just adding more weight for her to have to carry.

Now, I’m not coming at Mike here, I’m actually coming at the writers, because this choice here has everything to do with them using this gesture to signal Mike’s lack of feelings for El, even at the expense of realism.

I say this bc any person with common sense, including Finn and everyone around him and Millie filming these shots, would've known it looked unnatural for Mike to be adding more weight onto El as opposed to taking some off of her.

This means that what Mike did here, Finn was directed to do, and therefore it was for a specific reason.

And we know they could have easily made the opposite choice, because they show us Max AND Lucas doing it.

See how putting an arm around El's waist looks so much more natural? Because homegirl is injured and clearly needs help taking weight off her leg to qualm some of the pain she's experiencing there, which is why Max and Lucas are shown here doing it the correct way.

And so, why can't Mike do the same? Why are the writers making a point to show Mike being incapable of simply taking some weight off of El, instead doing the exact opposite?

I don't think it's as deep as Mike not being able to do something intimate, and that's bc, again we see Max and Lucas doing it.

I honestly think what they're trying to convey with this choice here, is that Mike thinks he's helping El, when he is in fact doing the opposite despite his best efforts. The implications of that and how that sort of aligns with their romantic relationship and what it leads to at the end of s3, going into s4, is pretty spot on.

I do think Mike thinks he's doing the right thing by being with El instead of voicing any doubts at the end of s3, because he is under the assumption that she is in love with him. I do think he believes he is indebted to her and that this is the least he can do after everything they've been through together, which has mostly been riddled with romantic pressures and so continuing that instead of disputing it seems like the only option anyways. Not to mention, he does care for her deeply, so it's not hard to imagine that he's a teenage boy confusing deep care for love (he literally tells us this is his problem when he can only say care and not love to El's face... but that's a whole other conversation).

Still, when it's all said and done, Mike's not actually doing El any favors by being with her romantically, if that is not what he truly wants.

Because that's the sad truth about all of this, which is that you would never want someone to be with you just because you want them. If you knew that they truly couldn't have those feelings for you, you'd want to know, right? You don't deserve someone just because you have deep feelings for them. And I think there's so many layers to this idea, bc many people are capable of not giving Byler a chance bc they truly believe Mike could never return Will's feelings. Will also feels this way atp, so though it hurts, he rips the band aid off, because he would never want Mike to be with him just out of pity or something. No one would want that. And so it all really comes down to who Mike truly loves romantically and wants to be with. And the right thing to do, even if it hurts someone, is to be honest, because being with them just bc you think that will make them happy is never going to be enough if you aren't truly feeling it, or worse, feel it for someone else.

We see how Mike's inability to be honest with El at the end of s3, leads to a season of Mike feeling deeply insecure and undeserving of the love El has to offer him, and even though he does try, he always comes up short. Despite Mike putting up this front that they are the perfect couple, the details are telling us something is off. And it gives him away.

Another example that I think is very similar to this loaded gesture from Mike to El in s3, is the scene in s4 when they hug in the airport.

Common sense ppl, picture this: You're reuniting with your long distance girlfriend. Then suddenly, she runs up to you, with her arms wide open, and instead of opening your arms wide to embrace her properly, you take the bouquet of flowers you brought her as a gift, and shove them against your chest just as she approaches to hug you, effectively squishing the present you got for her (a pretty delicate present at that) for no reason other than to... what exactly?

Like?? El isn't even squishing the present Mike, she's trying to hug you, dude! Your gf is trying to hug you properly and you threw the gift you got for her in between you so you could throw in a careful! x3??

Again, this has less to do with Mike's thoughts and reasoning behind this gesture in a literal sense, and more to do with the simple fact that this is a narrative choice! Mike is not a real person! There are real people sitting down and writing this and actors are having to do multiple takes to act it out. What feels natural for a situation is going to be what is often chosen 9 times out of 10, because of realism and wanting the audience to see stuff happening that is believable. That 1 time though, when it's not being done the way it would usually be, is usually because there's a specific reason for it.!

So the question really is, not why is Mike doing this, but why are the writers having Mike do this, and what message are they trying to convey about Mike's feelings based on his behavior, in these moments where he's just not capable of committing to El genuinely, one way or another?

#byler #no but most of the gay subtext is just so like... you really didn't have to do all that?#gay subtext at the expense of realism? check #mike thinks he's helping el by not breaking her heart and just being with her despite feelings for will he can't deny #very reminiscent of mike's 'maybe you thought you were helping but you weren't. you hurt me! what you did sucks!'#i do think it would be epic too see that moment come full circle but with el saying it to mike this time #bc i'm sure el would much rather have her heartbroken finding out that mike is incapable of loving her romantically #than to find out he was with her bc he didn't want to hurt her even at the expense of his own happiness #like no one wants to have someone be with them out of pity or obligation #we want someone to love us truly and deeply and genuinely!#we see how much el struggles in s4 bc of all the hints she's getting from mike that he doesn't genuinely love her #bc that's the most important part of a romantic relationship #it being equal #and it didn't feel that way #sure she's gonna be pissed #but she's gonna be more pissed he wasn't just honest #friends don't lie obvs

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findafight · 8 months

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I think the most insufferable part of the “Steve is the worst” refrain is that even when the change is acknowledged, they constantly make out like he’s on thin ice.

But the funniest part has to be that they write this whilst also having pretty much every new main cast member they add to show take a shine to him;

Billy just wants Steve to pay attention to him (and was bitterly disappointed that Steve was just some dude and not the raging asshole that everyone’s told him about)

Max hates teenage boys, but concludes she has found the one good one

Robin enjoys his company despite herself and becomes soul bonded to him

Eddie ends up being straight (I’m sorry) up *enchanted* by Steve, and we have a whole scene of him trying desperately to communicate this to him - of course Nancy wants you, dude! Who wouldn’t?

I know we’ve joked about Joe’s charisma, but canonically Steve’s must be *otherworldly*. Clearly the only reason Nancy didn’t let him fuck that old man was because the writers needed to make things difficult for them.

The show simultaneously trying to remind us Steve used to be a dick but is actually the most charming lad in all the land and is everybody's favourite most specialest boy. Like they try to make us remember Steve being mean but then it's also telling us he's a silly billy driving his bestie to school without questioning it and not knowing she doesn't even know how to drive. How are we supposed to think he's gonna backslide.

Lmaooo billy being disappointed Steve's not an asshole. It's no fun winning for him if it wasn't actually a competition :(

Max: no teenage boys allowed

Steve and Lucas: *exist*

Max: okay I will make an exception because they seem very nice

Dustin just consistently telling everyone he meets Steve is the coolest most badass person alive. Can you imagine the hero worship Suzie has heard?? (Suzie is also a Steve Stan and she hasn't even MET him)

Robin spends one month in close proximity to Steve and she's like well. Guess he's my best friend now!! And she was probably actively trying to not like him! And yet here we are! She liked him before they got tortured and she was probably so ticked off about how she, too, has fallen platonically for the Harrington charm. Not fair. Embarrassing.

Eddie spends less than a week around Steve and immediately joins his little cheer squad with Robin and Dustin. Like, if they wanted us to know that Steve was a dick to people for no reason in highschool Eddie would've been the person to use to demonstrate that, or the tension between who he was and who he is, but they don't! Eddie just admits he made assumptions about Steve without knowing much about him other than his rich parents and big house and popularity with girls, (saying more about himself than Steve) and then immediately jumps on the Steve bandwagon because now he can't understand why anyone who spent any amount of time with Steve wouldn't like him!

Even Nancy wasn't immune to Steve's charms in S4, and she had previously broken up with him messily! But all it took was a little bit of the town in danger and Steve trying to make sure everyone's on the same page while Looking Good for her to be Gazing Lustfully at him. That's why S2 and S3 had them separate for so long. Too long around him and she'd remember that she does find him cute and funny and brave and also hot.

Reasons Nancy stopped Steve from Fucking That Old Man: 1) writers needed them finding out info to be more of a struggle 2) they also probably didn't want a middle aged supposedly professional man sleeping with one of their teenage characters I guess 3) Nancy would have been wild with jealousy about the whole thing and stancy revival would have been much more obvious earlier, much more Nancy driven, and much funnier.

#steve harrington #stranger things #steve and eddie #steve and max #stobin #stancy #sorry anon but honestly the set up for a little stancy here i couldnt resist #findaanswers #anonasaurus

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angelwithnightmares · 1 year

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60 questions to ask the Duffers if Byler isn’t endgame

Thank you @merth-or-nothin for the help!

1. Why emphasize so much on the strong “Friends don’t lie” in the very first episode of the show, showing Will couldn’t even lie to Mike, only for him to lie to Mike for the first time in the second to last episode of the second to last season?

2. Why did Mike and El such a short build up before getting together? If they were meant to be endgame, why not build them slowly, so the audience could be invested in the development of the relationship?

3. Why were Mike and El separated every single season?

4. Why do Mike and El fight so much when they’re together? They barely have any cute scenes at all when they’re dating.

5. Why did El refer to Mike as "her first boyfriend?"

6. If she was meant to only date (then marry) Mike, why draw attention to the fact that he's the only boy she's dated?

7. What was the purpose of El asking Mike if he'd be like her brother in s1? Why give them a familial association?

8. In season 4, why is it revealed that Will is in love with Mike as Mike's relationship with El is eroding?

9. Why make a point to show the audience Will loves Mike the way he wants to be loved, while El makes him feel like a random nerd?

10. Why have Will in the background of every single Mileven scene (except for their bedroom fight) in the entire S4, making the audience to root for Will?

11. Why have Will love Mike at all?

12. Why bring Will into Mike and El's relationship? If Mike doesn't feel the same way, it's a waste narratively and it's anticlimactic.

13. Why did Mike change so much between seasons 2-3 without any perticular reason? And no, it wasn’t just puberty. That change made Mike go from being one of the most loved characters to one of the most hated ones.

14. Why frame Mike and Eleven’s relationship in S3 as unserious and unhealthy?

15. Why make everyone go against their relationship and why break them up as early as in the beginning of the second episode of S3?

16. Why empathize so much on El in EP3 and her independence, making us (the audience) feel genuinely happy when she breaks up with Mike and frame the breakup scene with light-hearted humor and comedy?

17. Why make Will and Mike’s first fight scene in the show dark and angsty? And making it a huge contrast to Mike and El’s comedic breakup scene.

18. Why make Max say “he’ll come crawling in no time begging for forgiveness” to El, which was true, but he didn’t come crawling back to El. He went to Will’s house, begging for forgiveness.

19. Why spend SO MUCH time on the Byler scenes and putting so much effort in them so they’ll look intimate? It’s such a contrast to Steve and Dustin’s scenes for example which is almost always comedic.

20. Why have so MANY Byler scenes at all?

21. Why have “tender emotional music” in almost all of the Byler scenes in S4?

22. Why make Will even confess behind El’s name instead of just confess himself and having Mike rejecting him right away? Why drag it out all the way to the very final season?

23. Why spend an entire day filming the van scene if it wasn’t that important anyway? If Will is just ending up getting rejected anyway?

24. Why the whole painting plot?

25. Why so many parallels with Jopper, Jancy and Lumax?

26. Why the very same soundtrack when they became friends again as when Lucas and Max became friends “On the bus”?

27. Why is Finn describing Mike’s story arc for both season 3 and season 4 as “Mike is trying to be a normal teenager”, “Mike is trying to be as normal as possible” and “He’s trying to keep on a normal path” why so much focus on Mike trying to be normal?

28. Why spending two seasons on Mike trying to say the word “love” to his girlfriend? Isn’t that a kinda boring arc for someone who’s just having bad self esteem because of his parents loveless marriage?

29. Why does the whole cast and even the Duffers always so secretive and giddy and smiley every time Byler gets brought up if it’s just another sad tragic unrequited love story?

30. Why having Will say “I’m not gonna fall in love” with such a heartbreaking tone and then end up making him not get the boy he’s in love with and has been since the very beginning?

31. Why put so much effort in the set design to queer code Mike (as in rainbows, shirtless men, monsters with muscles, the word BOY in the bg, multiple closet imagery, even a big sign towards the closet saying “One way” if it meant nothing or was just weird coincidence’s?

32. Why the triple take? What was the point of that?

33. Why filming and editing the last scene of S3 emphasizing that Mike is going to miss Will more than El? (Him looking back at Will’s house, then it cuts to Will, then it cuts back to Mike who walks up to his mom and hugs her with a heartbroken look on his face)

34. Why make El say in the letter “I think there’s someone Will likes, cause he has been acting weird” but all we see in s4 is Mike acting weird?

35. Why make Mike being able to hug everyone except for Will, when he could hug him just perfectly in s3?

36. Why make Mike treat Will differently than his other friends?

37. Why make Mike and Dustin have the same look on their faces as they watch Will and Max dance with other people and then after that Mike looks upset until El shows up?

38. Why is The Duffers so “hushy hushy” about Byler at all? If it was obvious it’s unrequited why not just clear that shit up because they KNOW they’ll get a lot of backlash if it turns out it was a big queer bait all along.

39. Why start to build up and hint at Will’s love for Mike from the very first episode and make it canon in the second to last season?

40. Why so many coded talks which easily could be interpreted differently? Like Karen’s “I want you to know you can talk to me, I don’t want you to feel like you have to hide anything from me”, Ted’s “See what happens?” About Will’s disappearance (as in see what happens if you’re queer? You get abducted, killed etc) and Ted’s “our son with a girl?”

41. Why make Mike NOD in the scene when Will talks about how difficult it can be to open up about something the other person may not like to hear?

42. Why make Will having to remind Mike of the painting and his coded speech before Mike can say it? Why could he only say it the moment El was about to die?

43. Why make it look like Mike doesn’t want to kiss El by removing her hands away from him (3.01) and not reciprocating, not kissing back with eyes wide open looking confused in 3.08? Why frame him like he isn’t interested in girls at all? (Princess Daphne, Phoebe Cates, Max etc.)

44. Why never show us Mike’s pov?

45. Why SO MUCH effort in flashbacks during the entire S4 except for the monologue when El only remembered one single moment with Mike? Why did she had so many with Max but only one with Mike?

46. The ending scene in S4. WHY put them in couples when they could just have made them stand together all of them instead?

47. Why does it look like El isn’t talking to Mike at the end of S4? Why does she look annoyed at first and THEN sad when she finds the bottle under her bed which reminds her of Max?

48. Why SO MUCH yellow and blue coding when it comes to Will and Mike? Even their colors of their clothes are almost always blue and yellow as well.

49. Why make Mike nervous every time Will is close to him in S4 or accidentally touches him?

50. Why make Mike say “we’re friends” to Will twice when both him, Will and the audience clearly knows that already?

51. Why associate the word “crazy” with “love” and then make the “crazy together” scene?

52. Why having Mike saying “it was the best thing I’ve ever done” about meeting Will but then having him say his life didn’t start until he met El?

53. Why did Mike’s words work for Will in S2 (making him being able to communicate) but didn’t for El (not until she looked over at Max)?

54. Why write the lines for Will “We could just play DnD for the rest of our lives” and “Not possible” about him joining another party?

55. Why make Mike look at Will’s lips so much? Why the flirtiness in the bedroom scenes in S4? They could easily have remade those scenes if that wasn’t intentional.

56. Why all the classic romantic interruptions in season 4 which we’ve seen plenty of times in the show between “more than friends”-couples earlier?

57. Why make such a HUGE contrast between El’s reaction to being without Mike and Will being without Mike in S3? (El did a high five with Max while Will cried and destroyed Castle Byers)

58. Why make Mike say “Hawkins isn’t the same without you” to only WILL and not to El? Why does Mike not have any problems opening up to Will but only to El?

59. Why couldn’t Mike say the full reason why he and El had their fight in 4.03?

60. Why have so much hints and clues in the show that Byler is endgame so it’s possible to make 300+ pages slideshows, hours of long videos with proof of Mike being gay, if everything is just unintentional or “made up”?

#byler #anti milkvan #60 questions to ask the duffers #if byler isn’t endgame #byler question’s

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sandinmybed · 1 year

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@cleradinel made a post pointing out s3 mike's tiny baby teenage moustache and i immediately pictured this scenario. had to draw it.

split up version (in case that's easier for anyone to read) and some bonus headcanons under the cut

headcanons first:

yes, i gave mike braces. that was a spontaneous decision but i think s3 mike with braces would've been great. the first one of the party to actually grow facial hair that needs shaving (not just peach fuzz) would be lucas. the one with the best beard when they're older is dustin. mike never manages more than the goatee and moustache area, he's very disgruntled about this. will is able to grow facial hair just fine but the party don't realise this for literally years because he hates not being clean shaven, and because he's got the classic white boy problem of his beard being slightly ginger rather than matching his hair properly. jonathan teaches will how to shave, he also teaches dustin at the same time

i have a lot of male friends lmfao, these are all based on them lol.

individual panels of the comic:

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truessences · 3 months

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Was on Reddit in the Stranger Things subreddit and someone asked who the most intelligent member of the party is. Here was my answer.

I think Mike is the smartest of the kids, Dustin has an overall knowledge base of nerdy stuff but I feel like Mike, also has that but tends to think quick on his feet, is creative, brave, observant(sometimes) and strategic. A lot of big plans have happened because of him spearheading them.

S1- everything he did for El and being able to explain to everyone about the upside down after learning about parallel worlds from his teacher

S2- causing a diversion for El and Hopper to get in and close the gate. True sight and that Will was a spy.

S3- being the only one really who was trying to keep El from over doing it and also immediately coming to El’s aid in the sauna sequence. Plus that was also his plan.

S4- figuring out the pen and thinking to go see Suzie.

I also might be biased as he’s my fave and I think people are way too hard on him but I think my examples help lol.

I’ve always felt like they all had their specialties anyway or what I think they’d be good in and a lot of it overlaps obviously.

AND THEN, I talked about how he is also extremely self-sacrificing and some extra stuff because as always, I feel like people are way too hard on him.

Exactly! He’s also so self sacrificing! People say he hasn’t been the same since S1 and I agree in a sense but not about his character but that’s really on the writers.

S1- telling Brenner that he’d have to kill him (us) to get El. Willing to throw himself off the cliff for Dustin, trying to stand up to the bullies for Will.

S2- running to the soldiers to tell them it’s a trap when he could have easily died. The plan to go into the tunnels which led to him getting attacked lol.

S3- trying to fight Mind Flayed possessed Billy TWICE. Because Billy on his own is scary but a possessed one?? Come on now lol. People really say they hate S3 Mike and I will never understand why lol. My boy was so brave. The other stuff is because of Hopper and I’ll forever die on that hill.

S4- he didn’t get as much to do in terms of forward action but immediately running out to El in the desert when there’s no way he could have known that it was safe for him to do so.

He very much clearly is the leader and the heart of the group. I feel like people say otherwise just because they don’t like him and outside of “oh he’s just a boring character” I don’t personally think he’s done anything to be unlikable, I feel like there are reasons for a lot of his moody (outside of teenager) behavior. He doesn’t get any slack from the fandom and at times his own friends (Max and Will at times and even Lucas). He’s the only one who didn’t get the chance to really talk about his feelings UNTIL S4.

And then someone responded that he was being a jackass in S3, which is why a lot of fans seemed to dislike him and I'm like no, sorry that doesn't make sense to me. Hopper is literally an adult and threatened Mike at least 3 times in their conversation. Like you don't *have* to like anyone but I feel like the reasons that are given for Mike specifically don't make sense to me. As I said in the post, everyone has their moments of being assholes but Mike is the ONLY one who doesn't get a pass. I feel like Lucas was treated pretty badly in S1 but that's gone down thank goodness but Mike still gets shit and to me it's unfounded.

Like don't piss me off lol

#stranger things #mike wheeler #mike wheeler defense squad #stranger things 4 #stranger things season 5 #stranger things 5 #mileven

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thestrangestthing89 · 4 months

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Here is the thing about all of the "this fandom is racist/misogynistic/ableist etc. claims that people keep making simply because the cast said things they didn't agree with.... A lot of it, NOT ALL OF IT but a lot of it, is coming from people who are constantly picking fights with people on here over EVERYTHING. I'm not suggesting that there aren't legitimate claims of those things in this fandom. There are. Fandoms are known for not being the most welcoming of places. They are a large group of people with different backgrounds and they aren't all going to agree and get along. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but some people get hostile about it and cross a line. And I know members of the cast have brought up serious problems they have had with the fandom (Caleb dealt with horrible racist comments that he has spoken about in the past, for example). People should be able to talk about these things. But I'm speaking from my own experience here, what I have witnessed in this fandom is people being constantly attacked every time they post anything at all, and it's coming from the faux progressives that think they are helping and calling out injustice when they aren't and it happens constantly. I have seen people screaming that people are ableist if they suggest that El shouldn't have a boyfriend because she is traumatized. When really they are just understanding her story and recognizing that that is not a relationship she needs right now. I have seen people get accused of ableism for suggesting El wasn't the main character as well. And also get accused of misogyny for this too. None of these terms apply to these situations. People just simply don't like the idea of those story lines and are trying to be morally superior about it. El not being the main character isn't misogynistic. A girl doesn't always have to be the main character. And her entire character arc has been about her learning to reclaim her childhood and stop trying to be "normal" and get a boyfriend like everyone else. That's the story. People acknowledging this aren't ableist or misogynistic and neither are the writers. There is nothing offensive about telling this kind of story. I have seen people trying to talk about Lucas's character arc and they get similar backlash. I have seen people mention that Lucas has been playing his Ranger role (the boys are always their D&D characters) and that's why he's helping Mike in S3. The Ranger is better at tactical things than the Paladin. It's his role within the story. But people want to insist it's racist (it's more complicated than this). Lucas is also playing basketball in S4 because it falls into the conformity theme of the series - he chose to play something that his mostly white town would be more comfortable with him doing. He wants people to like him. The show often plays into stereotypes with characters intentionally to make a point. But no one is allowed to mention or acknowledge any of this because the faux activists will scream at you until you stop caring enough to post.

So while there are people who are legitimately horrible, there are a lot of people who have been trying to have these conversations for a while but can't because hysterical teenagers curse you off the second you add any nuance to a conversation. This isn't helpful to any of the causes they claim to care about. All it does is stop people from being able to look at the show critically. A thing you are supposed to do because it is a show that is meant to be analyzed. There are a lot of people simply not understanding what they are watching or that this show is making a point about society and as a result, they are going to write the characters going through experiences that are uncomfortable and unpleasant to watch sometimes. They aren't doing it to be funny or because they are oblivious - I don't believe they are. There is a lot of evidence to the contrary. But they can't shout people down the second someone says something that goes against claims of discrimination. Sometimes those claims aren't correct. And if people actually want to fix a problem they need to learn how to have a conversation about those things without flipping the fuck out at everyone. They aren't helping anyone by behaving that way. They do the opposite in fact. Because they are screaming that every damn thing is racism/misogyny/ableism etc when not everything is and it makes it so much harder for anyone to actually talk about any of these things because they are worried they are going to get screamed at by teenagers who clearly have no first hand experience with any of these things. But have taken it upon themselves to be The Social Justice Warriors of the fandom when no one asked them to be and they are clearly not qualified to do so. And also - none of these social justice warriors give a fuck about all the anti-Semitism in the fandom because most of it is coming from them. But they've made a lot of people very uncomfortable. It's clear they don't actually care about people being mistreated. Because, for the most part, they are the ones doing it (not always, but a lot of the time). They need to learn to have difficult conversations without cursing people off. And when a group of marginalized people is saying "hey your language is making Jewish people uncomfortable in the fandom" the response should not have ever been "fuck around, find out". Those people aren't anti-violence. They aren't anti-discrimination. They never have been. They have always been the people in the fandom who make everyone not want to post here. And it's not because they telling us all hard truths we need to face. It's because they are bigots. And they hide behind marginalized groups and use them to justify spreading hate.

#and for the record #it's not racist to say Jewish people should get to exist #that is not working against the idea that Palestinians get to exist too #it's not either/or

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muppetbyers · 1 year

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will being “good at hiding”, the ud being a mirror of hawkins so he was Right There but also not. how he likely only survived so long because he was good at running and hiding from the demogorgon, and of course everyone was looking for him but if he didn’t try to reach out and communicate with joyce then he maybe wouldn’t have made it out at all. how at first he tried to defend himself but it was futile, maybe he couldn't have even done it anyways. the clone of his body that joyce immediately knew wasn't will.

will coming back wrong and feeling like a freak and being targeted at school, the scene of him walking down the hallway while everyone looks at him. he only opens up to mike at first and singles him out as not making him feel like "even more of a freak". he hides things from joyce until he cant because it all goes so wrong. how he tries to run and hide from it but its when he tries to fight back and stand his ground that it gets him. literally being possessed, his entire self being taken over, "what happens when he cant remember anything? when there's nothing else there? what happens when my boy is gone", and how joyce, jonathan and mike can bring him back just enough for him to help save them, even if saving them could kill him. and how none of them let that happen and they force the mf out to get will back.

in s3 when he's there but basically invisible, like a twisted parallel of s1. he's right there but having to still try to be noticed, and this time it ends with him destroying castle byers. the same castle byers that he hid in in the ud before the demogorgon found him, and which the memory of building with jonathan helped bring him back. castle byers with its 'all friends welcome' sign but joyce needed a password to be let in. how he has a 'no trespassing' sign on his bedroom door.

and just everything about dnd and "you shouldn't like things just because people tell you to" and how he doesn't conform to mike and lucas's 'normal teenage boy' shtick and how he tries to be his normal, but its just different to what they're doing. he destroys castle byers in part because he feels too seen, "what did you think that we were gonna sit around in the basement all day and play games for the rest of our lives" and yet he says yes, to mikes face. he gives away his dnd set but promises its not possible to join another party, and he doesn't.

he dances with a girl at the snowball bc he doesn't know what to do and mike is there pushing him to. in lenora he does a presentation on alan turing in front of, presumably, his whole class.

in s4 how his outfits just make him merge into the settings, almost camouflaged. how he doesn't reach out to mike despite wanting to stay in contact with him because he cant risk being too seen, because he doesn't want to lose their friendship. "sometimes its hard to say how you really feel", and then giving mike the painting under the guise of it being from el, masking feelings that are only his with el's name, trying so hard to express his own feelings but at the same time divorcing himself from them. jonathan immediately clocking it and for probably the first time ever, someone is truly seeing him and telling him directly that they love him no matter what. because they know, they know and its okay. how "hakwins isn't the same without him" and "god we need will" and his friends have his drawings on their walls and and and.

just. how hiding is the most integral part of wills arc and how everything is linked back to him hiding. and how sometimes its necessary to survive but that doesn't make it hurt less. and how he has so much courage and he's so true to himself but tries so hard to be both seen and not seen, because fuck man its complicated being who he is. and just. how other people's love for him keeps bringing him back, can bring him out of hiding. yeah. idk.

#me when themes and repeated motifs and and #just. WILL AND HIDING!!!! MY GOD!!!#also they are more contained arcs in s1 and 2 bc of How the show was back then and in s3 it wasn't resolved the same way bc s4 and 5 were #already greenlit probably but Also how that just ties in w his coming of age and how things are just more complex for him than they were #when he was a little smaller. even in the face of the supernatural. idk. i love it #dont actually know what this is i just think his arc is my favourite thing ever and i WILL just talk about it bimonthly for no reason at al #i loveeeee will byers can u tell #long ass post my god im sorry #if there are mistakes in this post no there aren't and if im wrong no im not. if u read this no u didnt #this was done by memory in a very frenzied moment please ignore it i just need to talk about will rn. causal wednesday for me atp.#mine

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byersfanclub · 1 year

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ships aren’t the only things people care about in shows but I think that ppl lately highly underestimate just how important romance is in a story whether you personally care for a romance plot line or not. people like romance whether they realize it or not. it can be as simple as waiting for a character to finally pop the question to another character (proposing) that’s been hinted at, it can be the “ugh, finally” when two characters kiss in a season finale and a whole other array of examples I could use. people may not be into shipping culture the way we are, but ppl are rooting for romances subtly, without even realizing it. people like romance. it keeps you on edge, you want to see the outcome.

which is exactly why I think people have a hard time liking M1lev3n. It’s pretty much “established” from the beginning. There’s no build up to their relationship, there’s nothing really special about them, their romance story is as cliche as it can get and also a play on a super sexist trope within sci-fi “born sexy yesterday” but much more PG since they’re kids. you can’t deny it. mike and el are forced together, mike is a loser nerd that no girls like and (quote by Lucas Sinclair) el is the first girl who isn’t grossed out by him. she doesn’t know anything about the world, she grew up in a lab her entire life up until that point. she barely speaks, she doesn’t know what “friend” means, she doesn’t understand privacy and all the sudden a boy is being sprung in front of her and she doesn’t even UNDERSTAND what romance is and that she could even like/love another person— and he kisses her.

suddenly she vanishes and is yet to be seen for months and they’re suddenly reunited.

there’s no development between them. el only knows what she knows from reruns of old tv shows she watches which are highly dramatizied. again. this is all el can gather about romantic relationship. her and mike do not show any development or maturity in their relationship. all they do is kiss in s3 and suddenly they're broken up for most of the season and for months after the events of s3 end before the byers move away and suddenly she wants to tell mike she loves him back???

at this point, in my opinion, el is hyper fixating on mike since hopper “died”. she needs someone to fall back on, someone that took care of her and she feels (at least somewhat) comfort and safe with. but as we see in s4, mike doesn’t seem to be able to even give her that. I don’t think el loves mike and I don't think mike loves el romantically. they never have. they don’t know what the fuck they're doing. el wants to be a normal teenage girl and mike wants to be a normal teenage boy.

but that isn’t what stranger things is about.

M1lev3n being endgame directly goes against stranger things message. it’s forced conformity.

which brings me back to my point.

this is why the general audience of stranger things doesn’t care about m1lev3n the way m1lev3ns do. they aren’t hardcore shippers, they’re casual, and mike and el give off nothing to be excited about, because el’s storyline was never about romance, it’s about found family.

but who’s storyline was directly tied to romance in s3? Will. “I’m not gonna fall in love.” immediately set Will up to have a romance storyline. The beginning of s4 “I think there is someone he likes” set will up to have a crush. The painting scene directly set will up to HAVE to eventually confess his feelings for mike because mike is inevitably going to find out the truth (if he doesnt already know). will at some point is going to confronted about his love for mike whether you like it or not which is why so many ppl became attracted to byler as a ship after watching s4. with will being confirmed gay and in love with mike, it sets the stage for a newly blooming romance and so much context, subtext in earlier seasons to go back and watch with a new lens. the duffers know what they’re doing, and byler being endgame in s5 means byler has been intentional since the beginning. they have been writing the show, the dialogue, setting the scenes and lighting and set design to directly link back to byler falling in love with each other.

I'll end this off with byler being almost at 400k followers on Tumblr, being the most viewed ship in st on TikTok, the third most popular ship on ao3 and constantly trending on twt.

M1lev3n can barely beat out bower x luigi.

fin.

#byler

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deanismysavior · 2 years

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Ik everyone talks about this in different fonts, but your ask about mike and nancy and how he feels comfortable opening up to will really struck me because wow, broski literally NEVER opens up to his girlfriend. Like we knew this already, but it really does go beyond him not having dramatic heart to hearts with El on top of vans. He really doesn’t talk to El about ANYTHING other than things related to the fight against the UD. And I think that directly connects to him putting her on a pedestal. Beyond his sexuality, beyond the debate of whether he loves will or el, why are my chemical romances completely chill with a bf/gf who don’t open up about anything. That should concern them, but it never does . Like literally, when you contrast with Lumax, who are vulnerable with each other ATT, it’s startling. How do melvin shippers not see that? Because that goes beyond the Byler debate into the core emptiness of their relationship which is a fact.

Yeah, let's talk about Mike and El for a second, because I think there's more to unpack here.

We really see so many empathy misses between the two of them, and I kind of think a lot more of those in later seasons come/start from El shutting down Mike's feelings than the other way around. I mean, Mike sets the precedent here with blaming El a lot in season 1, and we definitely still see his issues with deflection and blame shifting, but we do see Mike TRY to understand what's going on with El, and I'm not so sure we see El doing the same for Mike, though to give El the benefit of the doubt here, I also don't think it's ever been demonstrated to her that she should be making space for Mike in this way.

Let's take a look:

First we have this scene here where Mike is trying to relate to El and show her around. He's excitedly showing off all of his toys to her, and El just really could not be bothered. She gets up to scope out the rest of the room and kind of leaves Mike alone with his toys. Now obviously, this is a small thing, but I think it's an interesting way to set up their dynamic: Mike is trying to be attentive with El and make sure she's experiencing everything (making her breakfast, showing her the Lazy Boy, showing her his toy collection), and El is sort of dismissive with him. Clearly, she's also not been brought up traditionally, so I can give her a pass on these behaviors, but as for establishing a relationship between Mike and El, it's kind of already pointing toward the fact that they're not on the same page and don't really share the same interests.

We see basically the same thing happen here in the s3 opening makeout scene where Mike breaks their kiss to rock out to Never Surrender and El covers Mike's mouth and tells him to stop singing. He says, "What, you don't like it?" And it's played off as this kind of comedic moment, but we get the sense here again that El kind of stifles a bit of Mike's goofiness and playfulness, so much of what makes him him, to just go back to making out. It doesn't read to me here like she's all that interested in spending QUALITY time with Mike, she's moreso interested in engaging in teenage behavior with him, gossiping and making out.

But let's take a step back for a second and look at their initial kiss scene here because I think this also highlights how much they are not on the same page at any point in their relationship. In this first scene we get between them that really establishes them as a romantic relationship, Mike is telling El that she can come live with him and his family, that his parents will be like her parents, and his sister will be like her sister, and El asks if that means that Mike will be like her brother, and he says, No, that's different. Here, Mike is being pushed into creating this romantic bond between he and El because Lucas and Dustin frame his attentiveness to her in this way, and likewise, El is pushed into framing this as a romantic bond and not a familial bond by Mike. While Mike is confusing platonic feelings for romantic feelings, El is confusing familial feelings for romantic feelings.

And we see this displayed so apparently in El's entire arc during season 2. She leaves Hawkins to try to establish for herself what her relation to the world is, and she goes out in search of family, first to her Mom, and then to Kali, her sister. Both her aunt and Kali offer her places to stay and offer her a place in their family, but El returns to Hawkins, and says she's going "Home" because that's where her family is, not just Hopper, but Mike and the rest of the party too. El views these relationships as being like family and like home to her.

And this sets up so well why Mike and El's relationship in season 3 feels so off to the both of them. They believe that their bond has to be romantic because of how much expectation and waiting was built between them, but we again see them not being on the same page.

Now we already talked about the beginning makeout, so I won't go over that again, but I do want to key into a few of the points in their dynamic. While we've talked about how El and Will are constantly confused and interchanged in the story with Mike, Mike and Hopper are consistently also confused and interchanged in the story for El. Mike kind of plays, in a weird way, a 3rd father figure role to El in places.

Now we know that Hopper has always been overprotective of El and has firm rules set in place for her, but we also see this behavior show up with Mike in season 3. He's concerned about having lost El, and he kind of steps in by trying to have control over how she uses her powers. He thinks the others are trying to exploit her, so while his intentions are well-meaning here, El doesn't need this kind of overprotection from Mike because she already has it from Hopper, and her whole arc in season 3 is about her discovering herself outside of being defined by her relationships with others.

So when we get to season 4, and we see that Mike has created more distance in their relationship while El is sort of clinging onto it and fully investing into Mike, I think similarly to how Mike threw himself into El in s3 after being afraid he lost her in s2, El does the same thing with Mike because she thinks she lost Hopper, and so Mike becomes really her main support system. While of course she loves the Byers and Will, Jonathan, and Joyce step in to become family for her, they are not as familiar to her as Mike is, and Mike is the only person besides Hopper who has really been there for El since the beginning. She leans so heavily onto Mike and displaces a lot of her insecurities about losing her powers, losing her home, and losing her Dad into Mike's inability to say "I love you" because what El really wants and needs in season 4 is a sense of stability that she doesn't have.

So when Mike finally tries to address the problem after he finds out El has been lying to him and that she's been being bullied, he's trying to understand why she hasn't been talking to him, and instead of really talking through it, they both put the blame back on each other. El blames Mike for viewing her as a monster and for not saying I love you, and Mike deflects by saying "you know how I feel about you," making the insecurity her problem instead of something that they work through together as a couple. El can't understand why Mike can't tell her he loves her, but Mike also can't understand why El needs so badly to hear it. And so the only reassurances he gives her are about her powers because that's all she's really defined herself by for so long. He views El's hyperindependence and her need to do everything on her own as a strength in her and not as the result of insecurity and instability that it is.

El and Mike care about each other a lot, but they don't relate to one another. They don't understand one another, and they're constantly never on the same page about their relationship or what one needs from the other. That's what makes it so clear that the monologue didn't solve anything. Because neither one of them was actually hearing the other throughout the entirety of their relationship.

#milkvan #mike wheeler #el hopper #stranger things #st #byler #byler endgame #byler nation #ask #stranger things character analysis #character analysis #stranger things analysis

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demadogs · 2 years

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Okay so I just read a post about how Mike only really talks about el relating to her superpowers and how their relationship is more like him admiring her and looking up to her and I've always said this. Literally he thinks she's awesome obviously but I think that's it, the reason he's dating her and kissing her is because he's a teenage boy in the 80s, its supposed to be a normal thing to have girlfriends and kiss them so that's what he's doing. Tbh I think the writers are trying to make us see this, & showing us that what byler has is genuine love. He's always been close to will, always cherished the moment they met, loved him for who he is (he doesn't have powers) so they are the perfect example for actual love not just admiration.

i agree. i think originally mike genuinely confused his friendship and protectiveness for el as romantic interest, especially with lucas and nancy asking or implying that he likes her, and he just thought “oh i guess i do like her” because like you said, he did what he thought was normal. i think he still thought that he liked her in that way all throughout season two. it would be easy for him to believe that because he wasnt with el almost the entire time. he only liked the idea of it but we dont see much of him liking her until the end. i also think its interesting that they originally werent gonna kiss at the snowball but millie convinced them they should.

then in season 3 i think he started to get a little confused and the kissing all the time was actually pretty genius writing, as weird as it was. they both were doing what they thought was normal. el, because she was still barely a part of normal society and apart from tv she watched during s2, she never had any exposure to what love is supposed to be like. and mike because he was still in the “i have a girlfriend i have to kiss her” mindset, and not “i have a girlfriend and i want to kiss her but i also love doing anything else with her”.

and now season 4 like you said, theyre really showing what love actually is. just the way mike talks to him during that “i feel like i lost you” scene? thats love baby!! have we ever had a scene with el that showed that much love from mike just through the way he talks and his body language?

if s5 starts with mike and will as an established couple, id love for them to open with a complete contrast to how mlvn opened in s3. instead of just mindlessly making out i want them to just be cuddling on a couch and watching some nerdy movie and talking over it and laughing and giving a kiss on the cheek and just completely enjoying each others company and being happier than ever.

#only four days until i lose my fucking shit #stranger things #byler #eden answers

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florencewellch · 10 months

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🔥 + Stranger Things (bc I've fought you about Taylor opinions enough lmao)

Ohhh boy... here we go

I don't really get this "St/ncy was done dirty in S2" sentiment that's been going on, if you look at their relationship in S1, there isn't really much holding them together other than physical attraction and kinda liking each other.

I don't ship Steve x Eddie, but I don't get why most Bylers feel the need to talk about it and the shippers 24/7 to show that's they're "the bad made up" fanon ship while Byler is the "good" ship that has a shot of being canon.

Mike apologism has gone too far. Like yes, he's a teenager, he's gonna make mistakes, but people acting like Will and El are just as responsible or more responsible than Mike for their respective conflicts are going too far to the point where it feels like they're trying absolve him of any responsibility at all. Like yes, Will could've called and been more patient in S3 when he was having relationship issues and El shouldn't have spied on him in S3 and lied to him in S4, but Mike's actions are still worse.

MadWheeler friendship is kinda overstated by the fandom, Lucas and El are still Max's favorites not Mike.

Also seeing Mike stans hating on Nancy. That's your fave's sister 💀 and they can be equally shitty at their worst moments sksksk

Bylers need to stop this whole "every relationship hints at Byler being canon" thing going on. Parallels are fine, but thinking every relationship in the show is just there to hint at another ship (even ships from other shows like Heartstopper, IANOWT, Young Royals etc) is a yikes...

Gay Mike Truthers who bs their way out of the biphobia allegations with "this is like a literature class, one interpretation of Mike's sexuality is more valid than the other" need to realize that this is just a silly sci-fi show full of inconsistencies, watch other TV shows and go outside.

And this is kinda what I have rn

#asks #liv 💞

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dgalerab · 1 year

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alright here's my thoughts on how you'd fix stranger things (starting at s3 bc my stance was always that i could deal with how s3 did s2 dirty if it was building up to something properly in s4 and haha. hahaha. hahahaha. ahahahahahaahaha.)

mostly in vague terms of character arcs bc i'm still niggling at the idea of writing some screenplays for alternate episodes as a writing exercise

max vs mike: honestly the max/mike as foils aspect was GALAXY BRAINED and UNDERUTILIZED but it should have been mike's hypervigilance vs max's rebellion. *me dry heaving with the urge to not go on a rant about how the duffer bros see anyone with a gf as Normal and this blinds them to the traumatic elements that--*

mike should have been, honestly, on the same side as hopper. like, he's an angsty pre-teen so he won't ADMIT that he's on hopper's side but i think his friction with the party should have been that he's constantly overthinking where el can go without being noticed. you could still have the hormonal teens aspect with some grumpiness vs hopper but i think the overall aspect should have been that mike and hopper are very similarly overly protective

meanwhile max is going through it at home with extremely overbearing patriarchal figures. setting up for her grief arc in season 3, we really should have seen how billy is being abused, how he hands it down to max (by being biting with her from a safe distance since she laid down the law) and how she then struggles not to hand that down to lucas (also she should have had another moment where she again threatens billy away from lucas, showcasing the fact that she's as protective as mike is, despite her quarreling with lucas). so coming off this oppressive environment, she pushes to get el into freedom, being a little bit reckless, bc honestly who's gonna know? wound up with teenage overconfidence for taking on billy + a little bit of a self harm undertone because of her frustration with herself for inadvertent curtness with lucas bc of her struggles at home

the nancy/jonathan subplot is pretty good, but honestly? i think both of their sides should have been legitimized. keep and possibly even amplify all the moments with karen and nancy and the very serious fact that nancy is the victim of misogyny, but also give the byers more money troubles!! give jonathan and joyce moments where they're struggling financially! give joyce struggling to find work bc everything is shutting down because of the mall!! *slams fists on tables* lean into the horror of the mall!! the mall devours!!! the mall is the flesh monster, devouring all!!!!

ANYWAY

shut the absolute fuck up with making hopper unlikable so he can be redeemed by *checks notes* being tortured in a russian prison. fucking christian-ass hellsinner nonsense. give me hopper floundering trying to give joyce a sense of safety. taking her seriously but not knowing how to help. knowing she's thinking of moving away for money and trauma reasons. being scared to ask her to stay. being scared to offer to protect her. and honestly, i think he should have moved to cali with them, purely bc joyce felt safer that way and that's part of his redemption arc is just to trust her

make will less uwu babey boy. boy's been possessed. let him be fucking sloppy and mean. have him fighting not (entirely) against his friends to keep his lost childhood, but also himself. give him a crushes he doesn't want to have. make him be a dick about lucas and mike trying to get el back after the breakup. make mike be a dick back bc will started getting personal. FUCKING INCLUDE LUCAS IN THE ARGUMENT BRO

speaking of lucas has such an underdeveloped character arc in season 3 you'd have to invent it from scratch and tbh i'm still fucking noodling on this one. i feel like it'd have to contrast max and mike's different takes on overprotection. honestly, i feel like lucas' entire thing is the competition for hero with mike in s1, which would be an interesting arc - like, honestly, it would be fun if lucas was getting REALLY into tactics and it's part of the reason he hard commits to fixing mike and el's relationship but he's also weird about d&d now. it would make an interesting shift from the whole "sorry will lol we have GIRLFRIENDS now so we don't have TIME for interests, that's how PUBERTY works bc what 13-14 yos are really known for is being really normal about their interests and only being into girls). like maybe they've been straying from d&d bc mike's overvigilance is leaking into his dming and lucas' tactical special interests are leaking into his rp and dustin's over it and will wants them to just play d&d NORMALLY bc he doesn't want to face that he's not normal anymore and never will be again and this is deeply intertwined with the horror of puberty and queerness and trauma

i like the scoops troop dynamic but i think they shouldn't have been so disconnected from the party. i think there should have been this chaos with mike and max's war of the different flavors of the same person and lucas' Operation Get My Bf and Gf to Agree campaign and meanwhile dustin is like "so anyway there's a russian base underground" and they're like "DUSTING THERE'S NOT A RUSSIAN BASE UNDER THE MALL"

i don't care about alexei get rid of him

honestly i don't care if this is my get babygirl steve a boyfriend agenda, i think eddie should have been introduced in s3 as a direct foil to billy and a queer puberty parallel for will. i'm too winded from my other thoughts to elaborate but i'm right

karen should have divorced ted. instead of being like "what am i doing nearly fucking a teenager i have a family" she should have been like "what am i doing nearly fucking a teenager i gotta GET OUT OF THIS FUCKING MARRIAGE"

anyway tbc i need a breather before i deal with season 4

#words of ain #st

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will80sbyers · 1 year

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You're so right about us having to remember they're 14!! That post hit so hard because it got me thinking and back at 14 I didn't even know I wasn't straight 🤦🏻 nowadays in my 20s I identify as most definitely and clearly bisexual and can recall so many girls I had smaller crushes on as a kid that I didn't process because I didn't think that hard about it back then, and the train of thought that went "I want to kiss her. wait what? A girl???? I want to kiss a girl???" Only hit when I was 17. It was my best friend too.. it was such a confusing journey trying to figure out if I'm losing my mind or if I like girls the same as boys despite never considering it before, I didn't even know how lesbian sex worked. It only makes sense if the gang are confused because they're teens 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻 tl;dr thank you for reminding me what it's like to be a queer teenager /gen

no exactly like, I don't think most of them have any idea of how they feel exactly because it is super confusing going through puberty, and imagine how confusing it must be when you live in the 80s in the USA during the Aids crisis without the internet, without clear and good sexual education... like... it is confusing for kids right now at 14 I can't imagine how it would be for them

I think the one that is more mature (because he has a great family that makes him talk about his feelings + has lived through traumatic shit that made him grow up faster) and knows his own feelings very well is Will right now, followed by Lucas, Dustin and Max... then El and Mike!

El has grown up a lot in season 4 but if you notice at the start of the season she is acting her age in the end, when she pretends to be in the perfect relationship and all and lies to Mike, in s3 they were playing at relationships and now they are growing up and understanding feelings more and more in a better way...

I wouldn't blame El for confusing her feelings as love or Mike etc and being generally confused about what they feel and not knowing their sexuality

like personally I didn't even know what bisexuality was until high school and then after I found out everyone was talking about it as something that wasn't real and it was just something people did for attention so I just ignored every feeling I got about girls instead of thinking about it...

and this post wasn't even about Mike tbh it was in general because all of the kids are constantly shamed online for what they do in the show like they should be making all the right decisions all the time or be more adult etc etc... like they are 14/15 year old they don't have to know ANYTHING at this age, they can know stuff and are very smart kids but they are still kids, they still act petty and put their own ego before sometimes, they follow peer pressure and stuff like this so people especially older people have to stop just casting moral judgement on them imo

they are all sweethearts trying their best for what they are living and all the horrors they experienced!

#the party #byler #mike wheeler #will byers #ask #el hopper byers #stranger things

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stranger-rants · 2 years

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This may have been talked about to death—too new to fandom discourse—but I have this theory that the idea for billy’s character stemmed from (valid) criticism/debate that stranger things s1 was too unrealistic/idealized re: its depictions of racism (specifically the lack thereof), and so the duffs got all defensive and were like nay, we SHALL address racism! We shall have a new HUMAN villain who shall embody ALL racism. Racism, thy name is billy hargrove. But then the scene they wrote was apparently so poorly conceived that the actors refused to utter the lines. And so they revised it to strongly IMPLIED racism, thy name is billy hargrove. And then once again one of the actors pushed back and was like but from whence does this toxicity emerge?? And they were like FINE. Strongly implied racism nurtured by an abusive bigoted parent, thy name is billy hargove. And then subsets of fandom either latched onto the original shallowly conceived version of billy or the more nuanced but still pretty botched version of billy. The former have been loudly vilifying him with all the overly simplistic rancor the duffs hoped to evoke so that they could check off the lil racism box on their storytelling to-do list. And the latter have been tirelessly working to weave the knotted strands of potential and the many many details and clues that surely were intentional but maybe were just indigestion into something compelling and pretty amazing. But the rancor was louder, and also they hadn’t actually planned anything for him beyond racism thy name is billy hargrove, and so they dropped anything to do with that for s3, gave billy a demonic lobotomy in the opening, and washed their hands of him in the finale. (…Sorry for the flippant tone—racism is obv something I wish they’d explored with even a modicum of competence. But I also find the depths of their incompetence just… comical?? In that way where you gotta either laugh or scream)

So, this is really interesting because when Stranger Things first aired there was quite a bit of discourse around the lack of racial diversity in the show especially as The Get Down was also airing on Netflix at the same time. On top of that, there was a lot of criticism within fandom on how they handled Lucas’ character who was reasonably distrustful of their protagonist, Eleven. Who knows if that had any influence over their writing going into season 2.

We do know The Duffers wanted a “human antagonist” and that they wanted to “explore interracial relationships” with Lucas and Max. However, they didn’t plan this out very well because to them 80s racism is a movie aesthetic and not a complex issue of it’s own. Sure, they can create a racist bully character but what’s their overall purpose to the narrative if the narrative does not in any way tackle racism as a systemic issue in Hawkins, Indiana.

We’re supposed to believe this abused teenager from California with no real investment in his sister’s life is so concerned about his sister dating a boy who is black, but casually ignore the implications of a boy being black in a predominantly white, conservative, Reagan-voting town that quickly morphed into a lynch mob that evokes systemic racism in America. They’d rather scapegoat another teenage bully than put effort into exploring racism with any authenticity and that’s on them… not Dacre or the character he portrayed.

I think fans of color have every right to be upset by what Billy said and did. At the same time, when fandom as a whole hang on The Duffer’s interpretation of Billy as The Racist and define him entirely based on an early version of him that we never saw on screen (thank goodness) I have to ask… why? Why would anyone want Billy to say racial slurs towards Lucas for their one-note racism plot point they were never going to explore beyond the shock value of hearing the N-word in a mainstream supernatural show.

…and all of this being said, Lucas is still pushed aside in favor of everyone else. His interest in basketball marks him a traitor among his friends who had no intention of supporting him at his games. He still narratively spent most of season 4 in enemy territory. Hell, Jason almost did kill him and people spend a lot of time excusing him because his girlfriend died and blaming Lucas for acting suspicious as if those two things haven’t historically been used to form lynch mobs to hunt down and kill black boys who were in the wrong place.

It’s all really clumsy handling of racism is what it is.

#asks #fuck the duffers

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