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bambi-kinos · 11 months

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excerpts from the McLennon server (hamburg part 2)

Thank you everyone for your patience. This is Part Two of the ongoing Hamburg Conversation from the McLennon server. Part One is here: https://www.tumblr.com/bambi-kinos/718114537612656640/excerpts-from-the-mclennon-server

In Part Two of the Hamburg Conversation we discussed the 1960 trip from Paul’s POV and why he abandoned the Beatles to get a job as a coil winder. This goes into Stuart and Klaus and the Exis, plus how Paul reacted to John’s mind games where he pitted his loved ones against each other. Much has been made of John in Hamburg and how it connected to his later patterns but very little discussion of Paul comparatively.

This conversation was much messier as it spanned several days. We used Discord’s “reply” feature liberally. Sometimes you will see disparate time stamps; this is because I decided to pair the replies with the original comments they were replying to for the sake of readability. Please let me know if there are any confusing points where this doesn’t work and I’ll do my best to clarify the conversation.

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Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/07/2023 11:02 PM I am back on my bullshit about Hamburg again. this period is just super fascinating to me because of all the possibilities and the way things happened the way they did

I also want to understand why Paul chose John when the first Hamburg trip really sucked in a lot of ways and it could easily have ended with them going off to do something else.

in the beginning John helped Stuart bully Paul and he ostracized Paul from the group via the Exis (apparently deliberately? I go back and forth on this all the time, because I wouldn't put it past John to do it on purpose... but then again his MO was to get enamored with something new only to eventually drop it and snuggle up to Paul again so John probably didn't see it that way?) But once all of that was over and they were back in Liverpool, John tracked down Paul and he had to do a lot of shitwork to get back into Paul's good graces again.

Paul found a job at his dad's behest but I don't think he would have continued with the Beatles if John hadn't come to fetch him. John did something really smart when he came to fetch Paul from the yard where Paul was working: he brought George. First he had to tell George "yeah I'm back" but then he brought George with him to ask Paul to come back. Smart. Strength in numbers. Shows that he's serious and it doesn't look like he's begging because he brought another band member with him.

but Paul didn't leave that job immediately. It took months for Paul to fully come back to the Beatles. John eventually had to give him an ultimatum. I think after the experience of Stuart and the Exis and the group bullying, I think that those months were John working his way back into Paul's good graces again. And eventually Paul forced John to prove that he still wanted Paul, in a way. Earlier when we talked about this Betty made a really good point that Paul was the one fighting for the music, like John was. Stuart met Astrid and John let him go because he knew Stuart was already choosing Astrid over him so it was better not to fight it. But that period after John came back... that's fascinating. John recuperated for a while by not telling anyone he had come back. Paul got a job (and it sounds like he didn't need a lot of pushing) and I think it was because he might have been preparing to leave the Beatles thing behind completely.

Like I think Paul came back to Liverpool thinking that he and John were not friends anymore. IMO Paul carried the memory of the experience with the Exis around and that he remained distant from them forever.

Funnily enough, Paul has turned out the real black sheep of the whole trip. Everybody hates him and I only feel sorry for him.” — Stuart Sutcliffe in a letter to Rod Murray, late 1960

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/07/2023 11:09 PM I mean look at that. Look at the sheer petty contempt in that quote + the caricature. That's something else man. There's no way Paul doesn't carry the memory of that with him. And I think its present in the Revolver cover as well. Look at how Klaus portrays Paul:

I think Paul looks off to the side because that's all Klaus really gets out of him. We all know what it's like to be treated in a crappy way by friends-of-your-friends and I've said before that I think the first Hamburg trip is where a lot of John and Paul's patterns got solidified. So Paul isn't friends with the Exis, even in 1966, because he remembers who Klaus is and who he hung out with and I think those memories are very painful for him. He holds on to them. Maybe not grudges but he holds onto that pain. (And I mean, that's fair. I still remember my elementary school bully and if she were on fire in front of me I wouldn't even take a whizz on her.)

Klaus only ever saw Paul's profile... if they don't meet your eyes do you really know them? John rarely met Yoko's eyes in public I notice, whereas he was constantly diving into Paul's.... right up until that photo from the Lost Weekend where he's turned as far away from Paul as he can get... So Paul's profile being the thing Klaus drew speaks to the distance between Paul and Klaus... and Paul and the other Beatles. Even among other misfits, Paul doesn't fit in. In a lot of ways Linda was the only one who could accept him for his true self even if there was a lot of nastiness underneath that.

I think the 1966 cover is indicative that Paul held Klaus at a distance, even then. Klaus saw Paul's loneliness in Hamburg and how this made him bitter, apparently doesn't empathize with it very much since he played on HDYS.

If Klaus had tried to make friends with Paul as adults, he would have run full into the Wall. There's no way that Paul McCartney would be friends with someone who drew a caricature of him like that when Paul was friendless and in pain and the only thing he had was music and girls.

And I understand that Hamburg was full of psychosexual drama from 18 and 20 year olds, but I think that its significant because of how Paul got frozen in time due to the fame thing, struggling to grow up, suffering from a kind of Peter Pan syndrome.

So I find it interesting that... Paul got a job after Hamburg. I don't think John would have had to show up with George on Paul's lunch break and essentially beg him to come back if Paul had been gung ho about the Beatles. John had to earn his way back into a friendship with Paul. It took months for Paul to give up the job and join the Beatles fully, John remembers it as a "long trip."

There's another recollection that when John finally gave Paul the ultimatum that Paul bounced into the Cavern -- what if this is Paul being happy that John chose him, that John cared enough to give Paul an ultimatum?

John remembers it as a custody battle between him and Jim where he fought Jim for Paul's attention... but what if Paul saw it as something else entirely?

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/07/2023 11:20 PM Like, Paul got a job after Hamburg. He didn't know that John was back in town. I don't think we know when John told him that he was back. I think Paul got a job because he thought that he and John were not friends anymore after his experiences in Hamburg and the last thing he expected was for John to show up and nag him about coming back. I think Paul was convinced that John would go all in with Stuart and the Exis or that they were a sign that John was done with Paul completely. He didn't understand that John was watching Paul the entire time they were in Hamburg, watching Paul be in the filth with him, taking the pills and dealing with the gangsters and living for the music in a way that Stuart never could.

And from Paul's POV, the long stretch of months between John finding him at the spooling yards to beg Paul to come back, and Paul being given an ultimatum that he needed to choose between his job or the Beatles -- I think that period was Paul waiting to see if John really loved him/was really wanting to be Paul's friend or not.

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 4:56 AM Paul doesnt suffer fools gladly, he called out the Exis on some of their bullshit and they didnt like it. They also took to Stuart and I would imagine it was a case of if your friend doesnt like someone then they dont either. Ive always felt that Klaus didnt like Paul, most of his drawings of him arent very nice, theres an odd one thats ok. That Revolver cover has always irked me with how hes drawn Paul compared to the others. I like your take on it.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:01 AM Do you remember the details on Paul's interactions with the Exis? I don't remember that from Tune In.

That's a really good point about Stu not liking him so the others took the lead from him, oof.

I think Klaus may have (hopefully) chilled out on Paul since then but yeah, I don't think they're really friendly towards each other. Maybe "dislike" is too strong but they only ever had John and Stu in common and, well. Paul never let Klaus in.

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 5:04 AM Ive read of it somewhere but cant remember where! It was just a sentence or two.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:04 AM Probably a Paul bio of which I am reading McCartney Legacy

we'll have to wait for Betty to wake up

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 5:45 AM I wonder, when Stuart left the Beatles, did Klaus hope to take his place on the bass. Paul stepping in would have been another reason to dislike him.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:47 AM That's an interesting idea. No clue but maybe that's an angle....

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 6:16 PM He did. I believe he says it in his memoirs, but also in an interview about the book in 2001. He said he asked John, but it was too late; Paul had already taken up the bass

Even if that had happened, I don’t think Klaus would’ve fit in, them all being from Liverpool and Klaus being German (I’m half-German, I can say that lol)

Plus he came from a very rich (diamond mines etc) background..sure, his family lost everything in the war, but some of the posh attitude was still there. And despite being fascinated by it, he didn’t consider rock n roll “real” music

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:19 PM did not know this about Klaus, huh

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 7:24 PM He talked about his grandfather being this fabulously rich eccentric

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:25 PM huh! i need to check his stuff out then

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 7:31 PM It’s in this German interview

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/im-interview-klaus-voormann-ich-waere-besser-gewesen-als-paul-1.432929

With the provocative headline “I would’ve been better than Paul”

Apple_Scruff — 05/08/2023 5:48 AM Paul playing based has always sounded like a forced thing out of desperation.

I doubt he would have agreed to switch to bass if Klaus was offering.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:51 AM Agree but....he may not have liked it if Klaus offered since he was so pushy about Stuart's playing.

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 6:14 AM He didnt want anyone else muscling in. The group nucleus was set. His guitar was shot, he was filling in on piano, a bit of bass when S couldnt be arsed to show up, what else was he to do when G&J downright refused to take it on. Theyd gone home by then too.

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 7:50 AM unfortunately I can't think of anything like that in what I've read, I'll take a look at Tune In and the other Paul bios I have later We know that Paul is willing to ice people out when he feels they aren't working out for him as friends/collaborators, and after months of doing the most for the group and getting shat on by his songwriting partner and the Exis he was probably thinking "fuck it, I don't need this treatment" and got a job to start separating himself from the group

But John knows by now that Paul is his golden ticket and he has to get Paul back, so once he gets over the self-pity of leaving Hamburg in disgrace and works up the courage to ask Paul to come back, he brings George along to present a united front

The Beatles first show after coming back from Hamburg was on December 27 1960 at Litherland Town Hall, a few weeks after John arrived back in Liverpool

And I'd bet anything that Paul skipping back to rehearsal all smiles was because he felt like he'd gotten one over on Stuart and the Exis, in a "nyah-nyah he chose me over you (blows raspberries and making wanking motion)" kind of way

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 8:46 AM yesss perf

And it all worked out for him when John didn't discipline Paul for punching Stuart even tho he most likely lost

He had a good feeling about John making his choice too....

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:24 AM According to that interview from 2001, Klaus asked John to join and play bass right after Stu left, but John said Paul had already taken up the bass

Of course, in 2001, Klaus was still speculating what would have happened if he became the 5th Beatle and saying he thinks his bass playing would’ve been better for John’s style in later years

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:33 AM That whole interview [Klaus] showed both admiration and, imo, some disdain for Paul (and Paul wrote the foreword for his book, I believe) In that Interview he also vehemently denies anything sexual between John and Stu

It’s a fascinating period. I believe I read John was back in Liverpool anywhere from 10 days to three weeks before contacting George and Paul Which means he couldn’t have been to any of their usual hangouts

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 10:36 AM lol lmao

>better for John's later style >john and stu had nothing sexual going on incredible. so many things wrong

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:01 PM John periodically took time off to recharge, it was one of his quirks/needs.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:45 AM I thinks it’s still a bit of envy…everyone who got close to the Beatles and thinks “what if”

To be fair, he did admit that Paul was instrumental in making the Beatles famous, because “John wasn’t a frontman” and Paul was the only professional of the group

But you can read between the lines that there is disdain there for the Beatles’ early sound and Paul was a “charlatan”….the PR man

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:58 AM It’s interesting that John said the way he felt after he came back after Hamburg was similar to how he felt before Paris 1961…but time he wanted Paul to be there

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:09 PM and Paris 1961 ended up being a two week period of great renewal and joy for John, all because of Paul. No wonder he tried to recreate it with Yoko.

louiselux — 05/08/2023 11:41 AM It’s such a fascinating period! In the breakup Paul must’ve recognised some of John’s behaviour from back then. Dropping Paul and replacing him with someone else who is more arty and special. John may have been being tactical about it back then, maybe playing Paul and Stu against each other, waiting to see where the nexus of power/talent/ambition lay, and therefore his future. Paul wouldn’t have appreciated that at all, like who would? Also John must’ve known the power he had over Paul, and vice versa, in any number of ways inc sexuality, attraction, love, obsession. That cartoon by Klaus is so deeply unkind, coupled with Stu’s letter. You have to wonder what Paul was like with them, and what all of their behaviour was like on the daily.

louiselux — 05/08/2023 11:51 AM But it is so interesting that Paul got a crappy job on the lorries, John ignored them all for weeks, and Stu was never coming back to the band. Because the gig they subsequently did that Christmas at Litherland Town Hall was where they realised how good they were compared to the Liverpool bands, and how vastly exciting the public found them. So back from Hamburg they obviously collectively didn’t know where they were going or what they were doing, or even if they were a band. I wonder just how much persuasion had to go on on John’s part to get back in with Paul. A lot of charming, a lot of fuss and attention, persuading, light grovelling

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:18 PM in Tune In there's a lot of quotes from George about how they felt they had a lot of talent compared to the other bands, even when they were JaPaGe and they didn't actually warrant the confidence. I think for them they were seeking energy, technical ability, and stamina which Hamburg earned them in spades and brought their talent up to their expectations at last.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 11:57 AM Definitely shades of Yoko/John later on…Paul probably hoped/thought that would play out the same way as Stu.

But we also get so many contradictory stories out of Hamburg, like John claiming he and Paul bullied Stu and afterwards felt bad about it John turned away from music after Julia’s death and turned to drink and rage, it also kinda to Stu and art..only Paul’s persistence in pursuing John (for the band, for himself) turned that a bit back around.

I always wonder if at that point, John wasn’t getting from Paul what he really wanted, also there was still the age gap.. Stu was older, maybe came across as more mature and adventurous

Even George, I believe, said with Yoko, John was trying to replicate what he had with Stu.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:20 PM Yeah. its a conundrum about what that means. Did John actually feel bad after bullying Stu or did he only feel bad because then Stu died and he did some self reflecting?

Paul was very instrumental in helping John cope with losing Julia, to be fair. Paul is cited by many outsiders to be the only one who never lost his patience with John even when he was being a public embarrassment or acting violent and cruel. my personal take is that Paul is the one who cleaned John up and made him fit company for Stu and Cynthia and otherwise they would have both run away from John..

louiselux — 05/08/2023 12:01 PM That is completely fascinating to think of Yoko as a Stu replacement.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 12:03 PM Yoko’s comments how John talked about Stu every day and how he was the best friend he ever had…I always thought she did that hurt Paul. And also, Stu died so young, I can believe John put him up on some untouchable pedestal that wouldn’t have survived if Stu had lived

louiselux — 05/08/2023 12:04 PM Agreed. You have to wonder what Lennon/McCartney would have been like with a Sutcliffe in the mix. Maybe not that different, possibly. Because Paul grew in confidence and became endlessly bold and weird

louiselux — 05/08/2023 12:08 PM Yoko likely said a lot of things with the intention of hurting him

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:08 PM A lot of people who were John-oriented have this complaint, that they think Paul was somehow "fake" just because he's good at selling and connects with an audience. IMO it always says a lot more about the complainer's personal issues with Paul rather than it being a legitimate criticism. Klaus doesn't like Paul because Paul cut the Exis down to size and Stuart apparently overtly hated him, then Stuart died and Paul took over the bass position which Klaus apparently asked for himself (‼️) and then Paul had the nerve to go swanning all over the world getting famous for being John's creative partner.... and no matter what Klaus says, he has eyes, he knows how John looked at Paul and what that meant.

It's just another case of someone being bitter because of Paul's success. John used Klaus as a bassman on HDYS the recording that Ringo walked out on but George did not.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:16 PM It being John looking for a potential future, that's an interesting idea. I think at that point John had kind of given up on that since he had been kicked out of art school by that point or was on his way to doing it. Music became his life because it kept his attention and he loved it -- he told a girl he was dating at the Cavern not to screw up her placement at art school the way he did. I don't know if he had high expectations for himself there -- what did John think of his heart? was he actually proud of it?

Paul said that he'd sometimes gang up on Stu with John as well as vice versa so I think it was definitely a case of John pitting them against each other to make them compete for the Best Friend spot. But then when Paul was deported he got a job instead of crawling back to John.... very reminiscent of the break up. Paul would fight for John but once he perceived he lost (Stu, Yoko) then he was perfectly capable of cutting John off. Paul is sensitive to being mistreated.

this is all speculation but I think that first trip was hard for Paul. He was lonely, he wanted John's attention, probably acted out and then got mocked and jeered at for it.

So he paid women to pay attention to him and then he was attractive and treated them decently which made him popular so while John is enjoying Stu's company and hanging out with the Exis, Paul simply hides in women and practices his guitar.

We have seen this before.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:21 PM John wanted an equal and Paul just wasn't it, even if they had chemistry. John didn't take Paul seriously until Hamburg in 1960 when he watched Paul become a man and watched him be furiously independent no matter what slings and arrows he took.

But Stu was patient and was able to meet John on a different field with Art, and John needed that very much. Paul was too young for what he wanted in a very real way.

with a Stuart that lived, I think Paul would have been pushed to make a public declaration to John instead of waffling forever. Stu was Paul's only serious competition.

louiselux — 05/08/2023 1:31 PM I think so too! Something would have had to give, because John could have gone running off to Stu at any moment

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 1:33 PM I do wonder about that scenario. It looked like John had accepted that Stu was off with Astrid. And the Paris honeymoon happened while Stu was still alive. It seems like J and P had cemented and defined their relationship

Now if Stu and Astrid didn’t last and Stu came back to Liverpool at some point…

He may have always been hanging around in the background…or maybe not.

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 2:04 PM John praising Paul's abilities as a bass player in 1980 must have rankled him lol, he said Paul was one of the most innovative bass players in rock

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 2:27 PM addendum: The Beatles with Chas Newby on bass played the Casbah on December 17 1960, we regret the error

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 2:36 PM Good! I hope it rankled

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 3:35 PM Stu had no future in Liverpool and he knew it. His application for a position at the Liverpool art college was rejected and he had a great apprenticeship going with an older German artist who recognized his talent. Stuart had no reason to back to Liverpool except to visit. I also think that Stu found his person in Astrid and their relationship would have worked.

I think the greatest threat to Paul would not be Stu's presence but what he represented in John's life: a peer who had a profound hold on John in an avenue that Paul wasn't confident about competing in. I think Paul would be very worried about John going back to Stu for sure, because he can't help being insecure about their relationship.

I think, to this day even since John is fucking dead, Paul is still worried that he will make John disgusted or bored and that John will leave him again. Irrational? Yeah. True? You bet.

I think a timeline where Stuart lives would force Paul into a corner: either he breaks the relationship or he takes a leap of faith.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 4:01 PM if anything else, this fundamental fear of Paul's would be the driver to any action Paul took regarding John in a timeline where Stuart lives. The deathly fear that Stu will take John away from him, again... Stu didn't have to be present in Liverpool, his specter would hang over everything.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 4:25 PM I can completely see that. And totally agree on Paul’s fears until this day.

I just wonder if Stu would’ve kept this idealised spot… or if he would’ve pissed John off some point like a lot of people did, which led John to cutting him off.

Or, I guess, John could’ve remained loyal to him like he did to many old friends (at least until New York) and maybe got him to do cover or promo art for The Beatles. Can you imagine?!

Stu was so very young; it’s difficult to say what could’ve happened

Misery — 05/08/2023 4:30 PM God and the thing with Paul in Hamburg too is like

Here’s this high strung cash strapped teenager. Now we’re going to take him to a foreign country, get him addicted to amphetamines, and completely abandon him for a “cooler” friend group. Wait, why is he being so annoying?????

Like, the exis loved George, and Pete was just doing his own thing because he was so independent from the rest of the group, meanwhile Paul is all of a sudden entirely friendless for seemingly no reason, and the things that he was doing back in Liverpool are suddenly seen as annoying and stupid, and he’s being ignored left and right.

And obviously the huge caveat for the drama in Hamburg is of course that they were all idiot teens/barely adults, who had suddenly been thrust into a new stressful circumstance, so no wonder they all went insane a little bit.

Like you’ve all said it’s something that time/stu living would change a lot, but that wasn’t meant to be

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 6:24 PM I really feel for Paul during that trip. I think we can kinda guess what he was feeling, but I can’t get a real read on John at the time.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:24 PM Yeah, John is a real enigma here. He was very close mouthed about this period aside from some little things. Presumably because it's too painful with Stuart's death. Or maybe he just didn't care because the whole thing didn't have the same weight for him as it did for Paul... or he was too ashamed to talk about it....

But John not caring seems very unlikely since Hamburg 1960 is where he came out even more insane about Paul.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 7:33 PM It might’ve been the drugs, his sexual explorations, mental health issues..but it is interesting he didn’t really talk about that period… Maybe too painful because it was the real start of them as The Beatles and he really missed it

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:38 PM ouch

this is a big part of it i bet

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 8:04 PM Tune In, written by the king of the Paul haters, pg 374-5

Many Years From Now, pg 64-5

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 8:06 PM the amount of seething contempt for a lonely 18 year old in these paragraphs, astounding

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:26 PM And I don’t think we can 100% trust Stu’s view of things either. That’s maybe how he wanted things to be. I’m not saying Paul didn’t have a rough time, but Stu may have embellished somewhat in that letter (because he also knew how important Paul was to John ultimately)

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 10:54 PM Yeah. It occurs to me (like now, as I'm writing this) that Stuart was probably venting in that letter. I don't think he liked Paul at all but that's a lot of hatefulness in one sentence and I really dislike the idea of John deliberately tolerating someone who overtly despised Paul that much. John was an asshole at times but I struggle to imagine him encouraging that level of antipathy. So hopefully it wasn't quite that bad for Paul.

louiselux — 05/09/2023 3:12 AM Also him thinking that a letter from anyone reveals ‘the stark truth of the matter’ rather than just another pov on a situation. Mehhhh. I didn’t know that about Klaus asking to be the bass player. He seems to be a person who was used to getting what he wanted, being rich and pretty, and is it possible that he resented Paul for taking a place in the Beatles/John’s friendship that he thought should have been his?

louiselux — 05/09/2023 3:26 AM The situation is weird and so opaque. I doubt John ‘hated’ Paul, as Stu put it, because why would he suddenly hate him after being so close? But John might’ve loved being accepted as a part of the new exciting clique and that might’ve trumped everything else for a bit. John was obsessed with having his gang. It feels like a lot of heightened teenage dynamics we’re going on.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:23 AM thinking that the letter holds some objective truth is a classic mistake that Lewisohn makes all the time, because its easier than accepting that there were multiple POVs on what happened. Lewisohn thinks he can flatten everything and that there's an objective "truth" to discover and present (courtesy of him naturally.) It's just dumb no matter what. One of the first things I was taught about historical study was that primary sources are king because multiple POVs proliferate. It was Paul who compared Beatlemania to an earthquake and how different stories sprout from it and they're all true.

I wonder how much Klaus was shitposting or trying to grab attention via headlines with claims like that. I would be very surprised if John gave serious consideration to Klaus joining the band, Paul was already a sure thing and he clearly wasn't going to be happy with anyone else playing bass. I hope Klaus didn't actually think he had a shot, it just makes no sense for Klaus to join the Beatles from any angle.

If he really believed that he had a shot at joining the Beatles and Paul somehow stood in his way.... then uhhhh what the heck lmao

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:34 AM This seems very likely, good insight. Makes me wonder if John staying friends with Paul might have rankled Stu as their rivalry increased? "Don't worry Rod everyone else totally hates him here but I only feel sorry for him."

John liked new experiences and getting swept away with things so its not surprising that he got enamored with the Exis. They were arty, new, and offered a fresh POV for him to see the world. Anyone would be intrigued by such a friends group. The fact that they were happy to be dominated by John and enjoyed Stuart (especially since Stu and Astrid hit it off!) probably makes it inevitable that someone would end up on the outside and that someone was Paul.

1960 John especially would be feeling his adolescent insecurities very hard so he'd naturally want the Exis as under his thumb as he could get them. I wonder if Stuart also enjoyed being controlled that way? I don't actually know how independent he was of John compared to Paul. (Tho no one ever matched Paul in sheer tenaciousness when it came to escaping John's gravity well.)

The pills, alcohol, and sleeplessness would naturally exacerbate all this.

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 10:49 AM Maybe I’m being too judgmental when it comes to Klaus; it’s hard to judge his tone in written form. Maybe he sounded self-deprecating when answering, but I was surprised that 40 years on (at the time), instead of just saying “it’s tantalising to imagine me being part of the Beatles, but nah they were perfect they way they were and I’ve my own life”…he actually still brings up how his bass playing could’ve maybe been better for the band at some point.

To be fair, he also says Beatlemania wouldn’t have happened without Paul (his looks, his professionalism) , and that Klaus himself maybe wouldn’t have had the necessary charisma

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 10:53 AM Totally agree with this. It was a wild few months; them also being away from home for the first time as well (and in a very strange environment). So many outsiders have described the bond they had before Hamburg, how Paul seemed to make John come alive etc; they already had a solid foundation. I don’t think anyone could’ve muscled in there permanently

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 12:29 PM We don't know much about him so its hard not to give him side eye sometimes lol. Ultimately Klaus seems grateful for what the Beatles did for him and how he got to have a place in history thanks to them. I wouldn't necessarily label him negatively since he seems content with his lot and has gotten to make a lot of great art over the years. He likes his niche.

Otoh its still really weird that he's apparently still maintaining a delusion about being a potential Beatle. IMO it once again says more about his relationship with Paul than anything else. Paul is the bedrock of the band and without him, there are no Beatles. Lots of people resent him for this, even other Beatles. I would bet Klaus, like many, is pulled in by John's charisma, values George as a friend, and resents/resented the fact that he couldn't get closer to them because Paul filled that space. "If I was in his place then I could be with George and John all the time and we'd be even better friends. What's so special about Paul's bass playing anyway? I'm just as good." That's the kind of resentment that sticks with you when you have famous friends i guess.

But it also misses the point and the importance of Paul: Paul's bass playing was creative and innovative. He brought new sounds into the band. He also had the energy to get them over their creative humps to deliver material for new records and consistently hit their deadlines. Paul wasn't just "the bassplayer." He was John's everything, the one who delivered results, and the one who made the records work for the Beatles. If Klaus was really as good as he thinks he is then John would have made him a fixture during the solo years. But John didn't do that because Klaus is no match for Paul's ability to consistently deliver results.

I suspect Klaus knows this or he wouldn't admit to Paul's success like that. But its probably very hard to be close to the Beatles because you would naturally want a piece of it.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 12:32 PM

So many outsiders have described the bond they had before Hamburg, how Paul seemed to make John come alive etc; they already had a solid foundation. I don’t think anyone could’ve muscled in there permanently

An extremely vital point and probably the ultimate root of the resentment surrounding Paul during that time (or any other time). No matter what they did or where they took him, John still wanted to return to Paul.

There is something special and unique about Paul that had John loving him deeply and to the exclusion of others. Even back then.

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 2:00 PM I'd just like to add that re: drugs, Paul was wary of the Prellies and usually stuck to one a night, where John was eating them like candy Paul had already shown reticence towards drugs when he refused to partake of chewing the benzedrine cartridges inside nasal sprays back in Liverpool, so that's another aspect of the "Paul's not as cool and worldly as the rest of us" ganging up on him

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 3:04 PM And then that of course carried over to Paul not wanting to try acid at first

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 3:04 PM Yeah... so Paul was often on the outside that way too

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 3:07 PM I wonder if John saw that as Paul keeping a part of himself back; of not totally committing so they could share everything together

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 3:13 PM That's a big part of it. Tune In says John habitually used Prellies to try to get people to talk to him, he used it as a tool to get people to open up. So Paul dragging his heels and only doing it when he felt like it would be infuriating (and enchanting) to John because Paul was refusing to submit to John's direction and control. Paul could skate on the edges of John's gravity well and refused to get closer until he decided to.

It also may be that John was anxious about doing these things without Paul. He wanted Paul to mirror him very early and Paul's refusal to do so fascinated him especially for those moments where Paul did eventually cave and the mirroring turned out fantastic -- it made the victories sweeter. Pete Shotton said John needed a partner in everything he did, even when he was a little kid, so it was a genuine need in him to want someone like Paul.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 3:21 PM Makes me wonder how palpable John's attraction to Paul must have been -- even if he didn't fully realize it in Hamburg yet. I fully believe that there is some watershed moment we don't know about for John realizing how deep his attraction to Paul ran.

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 3:33 PM He said he chose Paul as his partner (in music), but we know it was so much more than that. At some point he realised, ‘this is the one’. If only he’d gotten to write his memoirs…. 😢

BRrraCKets! — 05/09/2023 4:00 PM I wonder if his attraction scared him a little and that’s why he backed right off in that first Hamburg trip.

He had plenty to distract him.

When Paul was deported, John was left behind. He could easily have stayed and pursued something there and kept near Stuart, but he didnt. He went back to Liverpool. Brooded on it for a while, then pursued Paul to get back with him.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:06 PM I never thought of the possibility of him staying behind with Stu but you're right! oh wow

BRrraCKets! — 05/09/2023 4:06 PM I think that’s when he decided Paul was it for him.

He could have looked at picking up his art again, like Stu did, or music in another band. His heart must have decided on music, but music meant Paul.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:12 PM oh my god!!!! :sobface:

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:13 PM And also the trauma of Paul being deported... Klaus has a drawing of Paul and Pete being shoved into a cop car, I wonder if John was there if it happened like that with Paul and Pete being taken off the street

Like for John that's another loss but instead of Paul abandoning him that's someone taking Paul away from him

And so he goes home later that week.... and he stays shut up in his room for days... and when he emerges he gets George and goes straight to Paul.....

BRrraCKets! — 05/09/2023 4:15 PM He can’t do it without Paul.

Hahaha in a roundabout way, Paul made John choose between him and Stu, and Paul won!

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:17 PM After all that mess, John really did have a shot to choose Stuart and do art forever, hang out in Hamburg and never go back. Stuart evaded deportation by living in Astrid's house, John could do the same. But John played a few nights alone and then took all the gear back by himself

and then he chose Paul while he was convalescing in his bedroom....

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 5:10 PM I do think that was definitely part of it… but I don’t think it would’ve been that easy for him to stay had he wanted to… Stu was different because he’d already started establishing himself there outside of the band (and he had Astrid and her family, who couldn’t be expected to take on John as well).

John had no money. I believe he continued playing with other bands only to fulfil contractual obligations (?). And he said he was depressed after Hamburg, thinking this was maybe as far as music could take them… to seedy bars in a red light district. Coming back to Liverpool, I wonder what his thought process and state of relationship with Paul was like.

Now in 1961, when he again faces a crisis regarding continuing with music, he obviously chooses Paul…even without the music. Even though they were making decent-ish money in Liverpool by then, John was fed up and wanted to run away (at least for a bit).

I know people say he didn’t take Cyn to Paris because she was busy with school and unmarried couples didn’t really travel together, but I think it was more than that. He’d decided it was going to be him and Paul… in any potential endeavour, even if it wasn’t a band. That carries on through to their later ideas of writing a play, a musical together; and just always writing together

That said, I don’t think he actually wanted to stay in Hamburg

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 5:59 PM Yeah, John stayed in Hamburg for the contractual stuff. Considering its a port town it would have been easy for him to stay IMO but who knows. I think it does indicate that staying with Stuart didn't cross his mind; if it had and if John had really wanted it, he could have found a way. The fact that he didn't and instinctively went home (to the place where Paul had been forced to go) indicates just how strong Paul's hold on him was, despite John not knowing what he was going to do next.

The depression is just John's pattern I think. He had tall highs and deep lows. John coming back from Hamburg reminds me of reading descriptions of his return home from their tours and how inaccessible he was to Cynthia and Julian because of his profound depression. Hamburg was absolutely similar -- women, booze, pep pills to keep them awake and then it ended traumatically leaving John in a very bleak place. The physical low from coming off all those prellies would be crazy and John was addicted. He may have been going through detox which would destabilize his mental scape. The same thing happened with the tours and the amount of drugs they were doing, particularly the coke, which meant that John crashed after each tour because he stopped inhaling all those drugs.

We can only speculate about his thought process post-Hamburg but John repeated patterns, that was his entire thing. I think looking at the Dakota years could tell us a lot, albeit with the caveat that John hadn't done any "splitting" regarding Paul yet. He probably felt bleak, wondering if there was a point in continuing. He knew there was more pain ahead of him if he continued with the Beatles. John knew they were good and probably realized they were better than their peers but maybe he realized that he might have bungled things with Paul. He's watching the wheels.... Then he ran into George on the street iirc and that's when things solidified for him: he needed music and that meant he needed Paul.

So he takes George with him because he needs the support and doesn't want to appear vulnerable in front of someone he probably knows he wasn't kind to. And Paul holds him at arms length for a while but John is persistent and finally tells Paul that he's not going to settle for being half time anymore, Paul needs to commit to him.

When it comes to Paris and such: Paul, for John, represents renewal and possibility. He renewed after Hamburg in 1960 and sought out Paul for it. He renewed in 1961 and they went on their honeymoon in Paris. In 1980, John was preparing to record with Paul and was actively leaving Yoko.

John's mental aesthetic regarding Paul always contained admiration (and sometimes resentment) for Paul's endless energy and his ability to createcreatecreate. That's an energy that John relied on. He used it emotionally as well as musically.

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 7:57 PM and on the flip side we have John unfairly blaming Paul for John's inability to write by accusing Paul of bouncing along and writing like a fiend without thinking about how John was feeling, in the "I was going through murder" period

...and then, much later, John hears "Coming Up" on the radio and something long dormant sparks up inside him

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:33 PM I'm soo late to this conversation but I love it! I wanna add my favourite Hamburg era tidbit that's hidden away in a footnote in Tune In, because I think it's really interesting to compare the aftermath of the 1960 first Hamburg trip with the 1961 Hamburg trip. TL;DR Paris was not the only time John and Paul ran away holidayed together in 1961

we all know John and Paul went to visit Betty and Mike in Caversham in April 1960, but Paul has stated multiple times that they took two trips to visit his cousin, the second one travelling down to Ryde on the Isle of Wight. But when did they take this trip? It's referenced in MYFN but no timeframe is given.

Mark Lewisohn proposes that the only obvious window is July 1961, directly after they arrived home from Hamburg - they had nine days off before they were back onstage in Liverpool on July 13. You'd think they would have spent this time kicking back at home after three months away, catching up w/ family and friends.......... but if that were the case, Lewisohn says, why didn't they attend Ringo's massive 21st birthday bash on July 8th?? All the biggest bands in Liverpool were invited, but the Beatles were conspicuously absent.

so if Lewisohn's hunch is correct and they swanned off to Ryde right after they just dragged their exhausted asses back from Hamburg, the implications of that are 👀 !!! bc that means Paul's behaviour towards John was sooo markedly different compared to the previous trip. Paul resigned himself to a shitty factory job in 1960, John had to win Paul back and prove himself to him, the band's future was in limbo..... but HERE, to me it's like 1961 Paul is staking his claim. By immediately taking John on a quick holiday to Ryde, he's actively preventing another post-Hamburg comedown and securing them some 1-on-1 time to re-cement their partnership

especially considering that Paul's tension with Stuart was arguably at an all-time high in 1961 -- they had their fight near the end of that trip, Dot and Cynthia came to visit but John & Cyn actually spent more time with Astrid & Stuart than with Paul..... I can just so see Paul being like :paulbuthehasagun: oh you like the beach John? you went to the beach with stuart? Come to this picturesque coastal town with me right the fuck now you're gonna love it

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:46 PM Veggie I love this connection. you're brilliant

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 9:47 PM get your man Paul!!

interesting that Paul made the first move here

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:48 PM

feral for this

YES.... after all that fuss in Hamburg they came back and Paul pushed John up against a wall and said "you're coming with me now" and john just went "o-okay"

Paul resigned himself to a shitty factory job in 1960, John had to win Paul back and prove himself to him, the band's future was in limbo..... but HERE, to me it's like 1961 Paul is staking his claim. By immediately taking John on a quick holiday to Ryde, he's actively preventing another post-Hamburg comedown and securing them some 1-on-1 time to re-cement their partnership

yes!!! he learned from 1960, he didn't give John a chance to get down in the dumps! he said "let's go on an adventure John!" and he just took him reminding John that this isn't like last time. in short Paul broke the pattern

I can just so see Paul being like :paulbuthehasagun: oh you like the beach John? you went to the beach with stuart? Come to this picturesque coastal town with me right the fuck now you're gonna love it

the jealousy angle at work here. oh my god

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 9:51 PM as long as they keep moving John can't sink into a funk which may have further implications re: Paul's work ethic

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:51 PM aieeee I'm obsessed w/ it

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:51 PM Veggie you're a genius

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:52 PM john's in a depression? let's do something and distract him from it... 1960? on the rocks, worry and frustration. 1961? "dis mine dis MINE"

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:54 PM while they seemed to make a lot of progress in Hamburg RE: trading up to better and better clubs, it really stood out to me in Tune In that after their 2nd trip they just returned to the same old in Liverpool, again - same circuit of halls and clubs, no one on their level, no upward momentum until Brian in November. So I love how John and Paul dealt with this by repeatedly skipping out on commitments when they got bored and goin on trips together

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:54 PM yeah! they decided it wasn't worth their time so they bolted

and they were right too lmao

they wanted to be together instead of playing the same circuit over and over...

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:56 PM and then Stuart's writing letters like "they quit the band and went to Paris to play together? I don't believe it..."

Paul's like "you'd bETTER BELIEVE IT BUDDY"

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 9:58 PM Wasn’t it said that Ticket to Ride was inspired by Ryde?

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:59 PM yes fs, I think Paul restates this in The Lyrics again too? don't have it in front of me, but yes

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:58 PM Oh I thought we’d shared that quote here already but no it’s legit

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 10:00 PM this is the possessive Paul we need

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 10:10 PM Paul stomps in like "he's my soulmate, get your own!" and whisks John off on a road trip

Apple_Scruff — 05/09/2023 10:11 PM Stuart literally having his own soulmate Astrid the whole time: confused

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 10:44 PM People have to had seen the special connection between them…John wasn’t going on trips to Ryde or Paris or Caversham with just George

louiselux — 05/10/2023 3:25 AM So fascinating and such great detective work! I wonder too if Paul thought he might be detoxing John, or whether they both had that in mind? Sun, sea, fresh air, no amphetamines etc, just wholesome British beer lol.

louiselux — 05/10/2023 7:06 AM There's just something so innocent about Paul taking him on a seaside holiday, compared to what they had just been doing in Hamburg, it's so sweetly unsophisticated.

I've been to Ryde. The whole of the Isle of Wight, where Ryde is the main town, is just off mainland UK and it feels stuck about 30 years in the past, so Ryde in the early 60s might've felt very old fashioned indeed.

#mclennon #hamburg #hamburg days #the beatles #stuart sutcliffe #beatles meta #my meta #john lennon #paul mccartney #mclennon server

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dollanganger-in-the-attic · 1 year

Text

V.C. Andrews Archive Collection

Hey guys! I just got back from visiting the V.C. Andrews archive collection full of super rare vca history! I took a ton of pictures and notes on what I saw- including the original manuscript for Flowers in the Attic back when it was called “Open the Window and Stand in the Sunshine” and the two manuscripts for Petals on the Wind called “Where the Greener Grass Grows” and “Reaching for Roses”! I’ll share my notes and some photos here, but for copyright reasons I’ll be keeping most of the photos in my private VCA discord. So DM me for an invite link if you want to join 😁✨

My notes on the manuscripts below ...

Vca Collection

Notes about the collection:

The collection consists of 12 archival boxes filled with manuscripts, photos, news clippings, letters and more. With the time I had I was only able to look through half of the boxes, I mainly focused on the various Flowers in the Attic and Petals on the Wind manuscripts. I was allowed to take as many pictures as I needed as long as I used the copyright protection sheet you will notice. Obviously for copyright reasons I couldn’t take too many photos of consecutive pages, so forgive me for the page jumps. Here are my findings, enjoy!

Box 1

“Open the Window and Stand in the Sunshine” manuscript

Pages photographed:

1,2,3, 9, 27, 33, 66, 87, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 154, 155, 156, 158, 159, 160, 161, 165, 169, 176, 180, 184, 185, 191, 193 (end)

Notes:

This is a typed manuscript of what eventually became Flowers in the Attic. It had the title “Open the Window and Stand in the Sunshine” by Cleo Virginia Andrews. This manuscript has the same plot but is overall a completely different book. It is in 3rd person perspective mostly following Cathy but also sometimes Chris. It doesn’t feel like Cathy’s story, instead it feels like the 4 children make up one main character.

It is 17 chapters long with no prologue or epilogue. The first chapter is only 9 typed pages. The story begins with Chris Sr. already being dead. Corrine has just received a response from her parents agreeing to take them in. Corrine tells the children immediately about why she was disinherited, being that their father was her half uncle. And she tells the children they will have to stay in an upstairs room, quiet and secret, for several months. At the time the children didnt see it as a big deal.

From what I could tell, Cathy and Chris never committed incest. But there were many scenes where their closeness was questionable. For instance, in chapter 3 Chris gets into the bath with Cathy and holds her. They read the porn magazines together and discuss them.

In chapter 5 Corrine warns the children that the forces in the house might make her behave and think differently than she normally would.

There are many differences in how the children spend their time. They have a TV much earlier in the story and spend a lot of time discussing the shows they watch. They ask for a toaster at one point.

In chapter 9, when Chris explores the house after the Christmas Party, we follow him in 3rd person rather than hear from his perspective later.

At one point Chris has to hide under the bed and hear his mother getting it on with Bart.

There is mention of Cathy keeping many detailed journals of their everyday life.

Chris enjoys dancing with Cathy in the attic they know many different dances.

Chris and Cathy get whipped for sleeping in the same bed but Cathy is not told to cut her hair. In fact the grandma tells her to hold her hair out of the way so the whip wont rip it out.

Cathy still kisses Bart and Chris hears Bart speculating that they're being robbed but Chris does not get mad and he doesn't assault Cathy. I don't even think he brings the kiss up to Cathy.

Chris wishes that they had run away sooner rather than being the one insisting they wait longer and longer. He seems to blame himself often for ever believing in their mother.

They all get sick slowly over time and throw up often. But they blame the sickness on their food being spoiled.

They get a polaroid camera for christmas and take hundreds of pictures to fill the attic.

Cathy doesnt resent her mother much more than chris. They both want to believe in their mom and make promises to her.

When Cory gets very sick, the grandmother seems to worry that their mother brought them sweets. She feels Cory's head for fever and asks them if their milk or meat seemed spoiled. Corrine doesnt seem to care, she asks them not to get seriously sick before christmas and checks her watch. She tells them to wait until the next day to see if he doesnt get better. The grandmother returns with alka seltzer to help cory’s stomach. Once the children have gone to sleep the grandmother returns in the night to check on cory once more. The next morning Cory is better.

Later cory gets sick again and it is agreed that he needs hospital attention. Corrine takes cory to the hospital promising he will get oxygen and penicillin. But still he dies and is claimed to be buried.

We get to follow Chris as he explores the house for the last time before their escape. He gets a gun somehow and finds the grandfather’s room empty.

Chris hears John Amos laughing about the attic mice being poisoned. Chris runs back to the room to convince Cathy that their mother has been poisoning them. Cathy doesn’t want to believe their mother was involved but Chris insists on it and tells her they must escape now. They make it known that the grandfather was dead BEFORE the powdered donuts showed up.

After escaping, Chris gives Cathy the choice to turn mickey’s body in as evidence for Corrine and Olivia’s crimes but Cathy throws it out. Chris seems disappointed that they will go unpunished but Cathy reveals that she left a candle burning near the paper flowers. However she tells Chris if God doesn’t want anyone to die in a house fire then he can blow the candle out through the window she left open.

“Flowers in the Attic” by Adrienne Vale manuscript

Pages photographed:

Cover, 1, 2, 3, 124, 295 (end)

Notes:

I didn’t get a chance to read this one thoroughly, I only flipped through it. It seemed to be very close to the published version of Fita. It is in 1st person and begins with what is now the prologue. Included is the 1st page of a previous draft, where the prologue part is shorter and a bit different. The first chapter begins with Chris sr. dead and quickly describes their grief as Corrine writes to her parents.

An interesting scene is where Cathy experiences german-guilt over the holocaust after seeing (what i presume was a movie, I didnt go back to look) and reveals that their father, Chris sr., fought in WWII. Chris comments that Foxworths only die from accidents. Cathy comments on her and her father both being Aries.

Once again the story ends with Cathy thinking about the candle she left burning in the attic by the paper flowers, and bitterly thinks that the house wont burn down if God blows it out through the open window.

“Julian the Bold” chapter

Pages photographed:

135, 136, 137, 138,

Notes:

And unused chapter from Reaching for Roses, a manuscript for what eventually became Petals on the Wind. (See below for more on Reaching for Roses)

The chapter begins with Cathy outside a drug store being harassed by boys. She feels afraid and alone but Julian comes to her rescue. Lots of homophobic language in this chapter, especially the f word. In the rain Julian fights this group of 5 footballers, elegantly avoiding all their blows and beating their asses. Cathy is just starstruck by him and even says she would die for him in that moment!

Some bystander girls start cheering on the jocks to knife Julian, with more homophobic jeers. Pissed, Cathy kicks the knife from one jocks hand and stands back to back with julian to fight with him. He tells her to run as he holds them off, but a group of guys from their ballet class run to their defense. Julian still throws Cathy to safety so she wont be trampled, and soon the cops arrived sending everyone fleeing into the drug store.

Box 7

“Reaching for Roses” petals on the wind manuscript

Pages photographed:

Cover, 293, 294, 295, 296, 297, 479, 636, 637, 640, 641, 642, 643, 644, 649,

Notes:

A manuscript which later became Petals on the Wind. This seems to be a second completed manuscript after a previous one titled “Where the Greener Grass Grows”. (Read more about that below)

I didn’t get a chance to read through these manuscripts because there were a TON of folders full of completed typed manuscripts, manuscripts written in pen on looseleaf paper, and carbon paper copies. It was overwhelming. But here are some interesting bits I did see.

There are some letters Cathy wrote to Chris and Paul which were unused in the published book.

In the chapter where Cathy confronts Corrine during the Christmas party, Cathy points out that Corrine only started serving the donuts AFTER her father died. Corrine seems unsure what to say but then blames John Amos. She claims John made her do it so he could inherit his own portion of the fortune.

Now here’s the craziest part. Corries has a young man with her named Gary. She claims that this Gary is actually CORY. She says that once Cory was at the hospital, she told Olivia and the kids he had died. But secretly she had taken him to an orphanage where he was later adopted by Bart’s sister. She claims the pneumonia gave Cory amnesia. Cathy doesn’t buy it, she examines and questions Gary but can’t come to a proper conclusion. He’s much taller than Carrie ever got, and he has no cowlick. Bart claims it all makes sense now why Corrine dotes on Gary so much and always had to see him. But Cathy insists that shes just insane and wanted to believe this random orphan was Cory.

Cathy lies and tells Corrine that one of Chris’s chemistry sets had a blood test function, so they know Cory has blood type O negative, which is rare, so if they test Gary’s blood it should confirm if he truly is Cory. Corrine is shaken by this and seems to lose conviction. Then Cathy claims she knows exactly where Cory’s skeleton is in the attic, and Corrine loses it. Chris comes in as Corrine runs off. Bart asks Chris to confirm if Gary is Cory. Chris seems uninterested and doesn’t really care if he is or isn’t Cory. But in the end he says Gary’s hair color is too different from their own, so he’s not convinced.

Gary says he may be Cory, he has no memories of his childhood and sometimes feels that he remembers Corrine at his bedside in the hospital crying. But in the end Gary only cares about his adoptive mother because she’s the only person who has ever claimed him as her own, so he leaves.

Bart tells Cathy that he really had only been with Corrine for her money, but now he wants to be with Cathy.

After the house burns down, Corrine is taken away in a straight jacket and Bart is found dead with Olivia clinging to him. They died from the smoke.

Box 9

“Where the Greener Grass Grows” petals on the wind manuscript

Pages photographed:

Page 1 looseleaf, 101, 336 carbon, 337 carbon, 342 carbon, 343 carbon, 344 carbon, 345 carbon, 346 carbon (end 1), 484, 485, 486 (end 2)

Notes:

This was an earlier manuscript for what eventually became Petals on the Wind. I suspect this was the very first manuscript, which came before “Reaching for Roses” (see above).

This one was difficult to piece together since it was split into several folders and collected through loose leaf paper written in pen, typed pages from several iterations of the corrected manuscripts, and carbon paper copies. There is no typed version of the first chapter, and among the several folders the pages are not always in numeric order. Some pages have multiple copies in both typed and carbon paper copied form, and many pages are missing altogether. It was difficult to read so I wasn’t able to record much. But here are some of the interesting findings.

This manuscript is in 3rd person much like the original Fita manuscript. I wonder if she always writes her first drafts in 3rd person?

We get to see Cathy and Chris described through a stranger’s eyes (paul). He describes Chris as a “young god” lmao

In this version there are police and detectives. There is a court trial where John Amos is arrested for everything. Bart played a role in his arrest, and is actually a senator at this point. Corrine is dead, actually murdered (by john amos?), and her name was cleared. Cathy even wishes for her mother’s forgiveness as it seems Corrine actually hadnt been the one trying to kill them. Bart also suggests that they go visit Olivia, he tells Cathy that the grandmother has changed and is lonely now.

Corrine left a will which divides her fortune 4 ways.

Carrie had a baby but Carrie still died, and now that baby is in Cathy’s care. Chris has a wife named Sarah.

Cathy and Paul are married much earlier. Paul has a 16 year old son with a woman named Leona, and Cathy wants the boy to live with herself and Paul. His first wife and son scotty are dead.

(Ending version 1)

A woman named Nora Kowles harassed Cathy outside the courthouse, claiming she knows about Cathy and Chris’s relationship. Chris rushes to defend Cathy but a truck hurls toward them. He pushes Cathy away and is hit by the car instead. Cathy is bleeding profusely from between her legs, she is pregnant and worries about her baby. Chris crawls over to her and asks her to say what hes always been dying to hear, and he dies in her lap. Cathy asks Bart to see that Paul gets her share of money and then she dies hugging chris on the pavement.

Paul is left to care for Carries baby until Alex (Carrie's husband) arrives to take her. He also is looking after Chris’s widow, Sarah, who never got to tell Chris she was pregnant.

Paul reads the journals Cathy kept from their time in Foxworth Hall and plans to open a free school for unfortunate children as Cathy had wished to do.

Now, as I said, there are multiple iterations of corrections to this manuscript, all bundled together. So here is the corrected ending for Where the Greener Grass Grows:

(Ending version 2)

After Chris defends Cathy from Nora’s insults, Paul warns them in time about the truck. It swerves away and both Cathy and Chris are safe. Cathy tells Paul that she chooses to stay with him instead of Bart. Paul accepts her unborn child, fathered by Bart, as his own. Chris interrupts to tell them Nora was killed by the truck, which no one is sad about. Chris and Cathy feel hopeful that the Foxworth curse has finally been lifted from them.

Jory wasn’t mentioned in either ending so I don’t think his character existed. I’m not sure if Cathy ever married Julian since she mentions how his love for her was always one sided, and she loved Paul.

“A Writer's Way to Profit from Memories” article written by VC Andrews

Pages photographed:

1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 (end)

Notes:

There were a few pages that overlapped, suggesting there were at least two drafts of this article. The last few pages seem to be printed with sentences mistakenly spliced in, so it may be confusing to read.

VCA writes that Fita is not at all an autobiography, the only similarities she has to the story is the way Cathy responds to trauma.

She explains that even as an adult, with mature rationalizations, she never forgot how it felt to experience the world and events as a child. Through this understanding of child-like perception she hoped to one day be an understanding mother.

She explains that she uses her own memories, and the memories of others to write her stories- only she exaggerates and embellishes them. She imagines what the worst possible scenario could have been in a situation she had experienced, and follows that path.

For instance, she compares Audrina’s experience in My Sweet Audrina to an experience of her own, which could have had a similar outcome if VCA had been as unlucky as Audrina.

#flowers in the attic #v.c. andrews #vc andrews #petals on the wind #dollanganger #virginia andrews #cathy dollanganger

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dannysilas · 10 months

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Ok so I lumped this on the discord earlier but there was barely any grammar and most of it was just repetitive rambling. I decided to rewrite it for myself but also because I didn't wanna let that paragraph of autismsplaining go unheard. So yeah. Enjoy.

•••

In the comics it's Homelander that rapes Starlight, not The Deep. (It was also A-Train and Black Noir, but for the sake of this post we'll forget that.)

As we all know, The Deep alone assaulted Starlight in the show, and there are a few reasons I'm guessing they changed it. The main one is that if it were Homelander, it'd reveal that he's a bad guy too early on. In the first episode he's made out to be this perfect hero, maybe even the "one good supe", and then he lasers the Mayor of Baltimore's plane in half at the end and it all goes downhill from there. Although it would make Starlight's side of the story worse/more interesting with her inability to speak out and the realization of how far Vought is willing to go to keep profits, I can understand why this just wouldn't work.

So they changed it to The Deep. I could be reading too far into this, but I'm guessing it was him specifically because in the comics he seems (or seemed, since I'm still just past Herogasm) to not really have a storyline or even personality of his own. I can only remember him even talking once or twice. Other than Black Noir until that god awful plot twist, I'm pretty sure he's the only member of The Seven who you never get to learn anything about. They could've turned him into the real "one good supe" bar Starlight. They could've given him the Jack from Jupiter treatment and replace him with an original character. I guess they didn't wanna do the latter twice, which is fair. So to make him both a more significant character and more believable villain, this is what we were given.

Yet even with Homelander and The Deep's switched dynamics (probably not the right word), they still wanted to include the whole Ryan plot. For this reason, and I'm guessing this reason only, Homelander too was written as a rapist.

What I always found strange about this is that Homelander showed no signs of that sort of behaviour before or since Becca. I know they kind of needed him to be "that guy" so they could include Ryan in a comic-accurate way. Like, what's more realistic, Homelander settling down with a nice happy family or him gaining the female validation he craves by force? But still, that part of him is always jarring to remember.

I feel like this could've been done a lot more effectively if they delved deeper into his relationship with Stillwell. The reason people so often forget that she groomed him - or don't realise it at all - is because it's just never discussed. It's implied, mentioned in passing out of the show's context, but never actually spoken about. So often I see their relationship reduced to "haha mommy kink breast milk needy good boy." And to be fair, that's basically how it's portrayed in the show. I just wish that it wasn't. Anyway, I'll probably do a whole post about that in the future. I'm getting off topic.

What I'm actually trying to say here is that they probably almost gave The Deep a child instead. It would've made sense, including that aspect of the comics but changing things up again like usual, giving the child to "the" rapist character instead of creating a second one just for the sake of it. Again, I understand why they didn't go with this.

I mean, he wasn't a main antagonist in season one. And not once has he been considered a supervillain. It's more obvious as the show progresses that he's basically just comic relief (another thing I'm a little pissed about but I digress). And since his powers make him more of a glorified human than an actual supe, it would be harder to make his offspring a significant plot device. Ryan is a threat. A ticking time bomb. I'm very excited to see what they do with him in season four. But Kevin Junior? I mean, what would there even be to worry about besides toxic masculinity and an inherited case of body dysmorphia? The only thing this hypothetical kid would be good for is a redemption arc, and it's becoming increasingly clear that the show either doesn't want that for The Deep, or is saving it for the milisecond before his gruesome death.

If this was the original idea, I understand why it was kicked. If it wasn't, it's still kind of a missed opportunity. I really think it was an unusual choice to have Homelander rape Becca. Then again, there's the whole controversy over whether he actually did, but I'm not gonna get involved.

#the deep #kevin moskowitz #homelander #starlight #annie january #ryan butcher #becca butcher #the boys

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rosedhall · 7 months

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can you go on a rant about how much you love Rose and debunk every single argument made against her in excruciating detail? Please? 🥺🥺🥺

Ohhh yes yes I can do this, because I am very normal about Rose Hall (lying)! I think I've probably seen the entire range of arguments of people who don't like Rose. Which, I feel the need to clarify, you're welcome to not like a character. I know Rose has a slightly derisive personality, she can be biting or aloof towards the player, she's stubborn and defensive, purposefully ignorant at times (girl why do you have beef with that 10 y/o) - which is probably not everyone's thing.

But I usually do have gripes with people who lie, misconstrue, blame, invent reasons not to like her or to paint her as irrational or 'bad' (or god forbid, abusive, cough I see you dead discord) because it all basically boils down to thinly veiled, "fandom misogyny" if you know the ilk. Which is twice as bad as normal, because her situation involves a lot of abuse that she gets criticised for not preventing or leaving correctly. Random aside, I feel strongly that if Rose was a male character, she would be viewed much more favourably, people love cold but protective paternal figures, with a soft spot for their child - this doesn't seem to extend to mothers.

OK, my screed / semi structural rambling under the cut:

Hugo & his abuse.

I don't see a ton of criticism in regards to Rose and Hugo's relationship on her part, at least in comparison to situations revolving around Jimmy. I assume because it's probably a bit too close to obvious victim blaming to do that. But I did occasionally come across the sentiment that she should've left earlier or when he first began abusing her, a thought that I assume arises from people who don't know much about how abusive relationships develop or are maintained et cetera.

Initial point: Hugo is Rose's boss! They meet after he hires her to be an assistant, and so from the very beginning she is his subordinate. He's famous - he has his own television show! He has enough money to afford a hotel! He controls her income by virtue of being the one who pays her.

After their relationship develops, and she presumably moves into the hotel, he explicitly begins to control her money ("Do not buy anything without my permission, I will not allow you to ruin my life"), therefore limiting what she can do while increasing his control over her. When stuck in the same property as your abuser, who is also your only source of income because he's your boss, it's very hard to make an escape without a strong support network, which we don't know if Rose had.

Additionally, abuse is incremental, Rose herself notes that prior to them being married that he was not abusive, or at least considerably less so. Which suggests that Hugo, plus the spirit-demon-whatever possessing him, managed to be covert enough early into their relationship.. before she finally was legally entrapped. And once in, as written above, it's pretty difficult to get out.

Divorce laws in the 1970s were also fairly shit still, the '69 reform act didn't go into effect until '71 and even then that required a couple to be separated 5 years (if only one wants the divorce) before they were legally separated. Meaning Hugo would still have easy access to Jim or Rose regardless of if she physically left or filed for divorce before then. Hugo having dual income, working with kids, owning property, being famous and so forth would absolutely put him at a legal advantage. Plus he's not above physically or verbally intimidating Rose (implied through the 301 sighting) to keep her from acting, the abuse whittles you down.

Having Jimmy.

During discussion with Maya, Rose states that "there was only one thing I could give [Hugo]", which suggests a sense of obligation and little in the way of eagerness in regards to giving birth to Jimmy. This seems to suggest that she's having Hugo's baby because he (or whatever possessing him) wants that and it's safer to keep him happy, rather than because she's keen to do so.

Hence why she seemed to have hoped that a baby would 'fix' things, a sentiment that current day Rose is acutely aware was a daft idea "I thought", etc. Oh wow character with shifting perspective, scandal.

Being too slow in killing Hugo.

Rose killing Hugo only after 2 years of Jimmy's life also gets her some shit, which I don't think is honestly warranted because she ammended it relatively quickly. In the game she does actually blame herself, which I suppose is why people go 'yeah exactly' in response to her "I should've done it sooner. I let him abuse Jimmy for too long".

I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that maybe it's normal and human for someone to be hesitant to commit a murder, especially murdering someone they once loved. Tim Follin does tend to write his characters as relatively grounded, at least in terms of their personalities, it's not as though murder is treated flippantly within the game, in fact the conceit of the story is based on the deaths of the hotel ghosts, who are granted a lot of weight or emotion. (Hugo will not be missed though).

Mayhaps, the murder was an act of desperation by an abuse victim, who had to do it as a last resort to prevent the death of her toddler. And less so a girlboss moment.

Not listening to Harvey or Bose.

I like this one (I'm being smarmy), because in order for it to make sense as a detrimental action on Rose's behalf, you have to completely disregard any or all mistakes that either Bose or Harvey make. Which .. idk. seems hypocritical, if you're holding everyone to these standards I reckon that the fellows are just as much at fault.

Bose and Harvey both believe that Jimmy is a very volatile, mentally ill boy which.. I mean they're not wrong, can't judge their perception. How do they go about remedying this, making their case? Bose gets off to a strong start until he falls victim to a horrific prank on Jimmy's part, upon which all procedure goes out the window (understandable on a character level, makes for better writing for a character to make a mistake funnily) and he chases Jimmy throughout his home without telling Rose nor Harvey (Rose knows in retrospect and laments wishing she could have stopped it and Harvey has no knowledge of it at all) with a 'prescription only medication' used to treat ALCOHOL WITHDRAWAL OR SEIZURES. This is just actual medical malpractice.

Then after Jimmy's successive accusations (one of which Rose sides with Bose on) he continues to behave impulsively and strangely (216), until he spite-hangs himself in the basement. Frankly, I don't blame Rose for taking what he says with a grain of salt, and not listening to the advice of a man who she believes molested her son.

Harvey. Harvey is Harvey idk if anyone actually needs me to make a bullet point list of all the actions he does that are stupid. But shorthand, he wrecks all of Jimmy's belongings, he locks him in a basement presumably without food for the night, then blames him for a fire that isn't actually confirmed to be Jim's fault (bc if you ask Rose you get some variation in response, since all the ghosts are different people with different perspectives, and she believes the fire was caused by faulty wiring - which it absolutely could have been because I doubt that the spirit possessing Jimmy would WANT to kill its host as a teenager before the opportunity to be passed down even arose). And Harvey wraps this stunt up nicely by chasing Jim with a loaded handgun.

Yeah man, I can see why she didn't listen to him, he's a berk - violent and aggressive. She absolutely should have seen some of what Jim did in retaliation as bad, but she has blind spots for a reason and Harvey doesn't help himself. She trusted Harvey to parent Jimmy and he became erratic and dangerous, as a victim of spousal abuse, who witnessed prior child abuse I can't blame Rose for having more distrust of the adult man with a gun than her previously abused son.

Additionally! The whole thing is futile! Jimmy's problem isn't his mental illness, it's that he's possessed! Neither Harvey nor Bose ever so much as consider this avenue and Rose only works it out after they're both dead - nothing she (or they) could have done in this era would have fixed the problem. Listening to the psychiatrist would not have helped the fact that Jimmy has a demon inside of him, in fact letting this man continually get his way in poorly planned medical malpractice would probably have exacerbated the issue. Speaking of..

Reporting Bose.

Boo, hiss, going to the appropriate authorities this time? Not killing instead? How dare you, monstrous woman! I also feel that people often gloss over the fact that Rose was the one to contact Bose in the first place, she's not ignorant to Jimmy's mental problems, as she's sometimes presented to be.

Anyway, I don't entirely understand what people expected of Rose here, her son was claiming to have been physically assaulted, then sexually assaulted after she chose to believe Bose the first time. She literally sided with Bose initially, after Jim claimed Boee beat him. She listened to him, she chose his narrative over her son's. Then Bose went rogue and did the weird shit in 216 alone.. with Jimmy, instead of asking absolutely anyone to sit in with him. I like Bose, he has a nice demeanour and seems gormlessly authentic, but sometimes he behaves in incredibly suspicious ways, that man does himself no favours.

Her son, after she trusted Bose over him, comes back after being with Bose alone, claiming to have been molested. Of course she reports it to the authorities, what did you want her to do? Ignore her child when he cried rape? If your child, who's psychiatrist had already committed medical malpractice, been accused of assault and acted thoroughly bizarre, claimed they were being sexually assaulted would you just ignore them? Obviously not, it's daft! (If she had, and Jimmy was a genuine victim, she absolutely would've got shit for NOT believing him, it's lose-lose for her.)

She went to the correct authorities to let them do their job, it is not on her to investigate all aspects of the claim personally, it's the police's.

Harvey hadn't found the scrapbook at this point and it's implied..if you actually ask Rose about these things, that she doesn't even remember being shown it, just that Harvey claimed Jimmy had made a scrapbook.

All Harvey does in way of convincing Rose (that we explicitly see) is call her son a liar, says he lies about everything, before demeaning and stropping after her - Harvey, if you pay attention to the actions he actually does rather than the retrospective stuff he tells Maya, is a stubborn, reactive git, god love him. Even Bose, who has similar thoughts on Jimmy - though much milder, is aware that Harvey has anger issues and straight up calls much of his behaviour following his own death wrong. ("Violence doesn't solve anything", he's a real philosopher).

Believing Jimmy when he said killing Harvey was self defence.

Keeping this one short because it's obvious. Harvey was an adult man, who had been spiralling for a while, armed with a loaded gun, chasing a teenage boy around the hotel. Most people, including the police in the story, would assume the child armed with a letter opener was not the aggressor in the situation.

Regardless of Harvey's comment on just threatening Jimmy to scare him out of the hotel, he evidently hadn't informed anyone of this genius play of his, including Rose.. who believed he went mad. For obvious reasons. He was being mental. Even he admits he was seeing red and not thinking right.

Not getting Jimmy mental help as an adult.

Jimmy is an adult, he can advocate and get mental health help for himself, frankly. He's possessed so lord knows how effective it would have been but you get my drift. I don't know, of the top of my head, how GPs worked in the 90s and 00s, but I'm going to assume they have similar rules to now - wherein if you're over 16, you're responsible for your own appointments and medical care.

Also... perhaps there's understandable reasons for the two people, who's last psychiatrist committed medical malpractice and (according to Jimmy himself) molestation, to have some reservations about employing another.

Additional!

Rosemary Dolores Hall nee Jones is a fictional character, her mistakes or missteps are necessary to her being interesting to learn about and talk to, because if she had metatextual vision strong enough to evade any actions that seemed right to her but were actually detrimental she would not be interesting and the story wouldn't have progressed. It's unfair and pretty telling that, for most of her detractors, Bose, Harvey and Jimmy are all allowed to make similar mistakes and they're treated as intriguing character beats (they are!) but Rose does it and gets shit for the fact.

Conclusion - GB I hate fandom. I love you Rose. explodes, night

#this is 2k words so i can't flesh out the loving rose attribute as much im very sorry i hope the entire blog suffices #txt #asks #rose #rant #hey next time someone send me an adon question that's phrased like it came out of a gc se or alevel literature paper #in at dead of night how does tim follin convey the themes of tragedy through use of the ghosts and their interactions with jimmy.#how is individual perspective established between characters. you understand my drift #hey im never having the argument again now here's my masterpost #addendum shes not an enabler either she aims to get him help with bose. let's harvey parent the way he wants. stops jim and recognises when #he deteriorates as an adult. so on

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docholligay · 6 months

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Ep 9: The descent

Hello! This is about up to Episode 9 of Yellowjackets, and ONLY episode 9 of Yellowjackets. I have not seen beyond the ninth episode, at all, and know NOTHING about this show. Please do not spoil it for me. Things that are spoilery in nature, for me, include: saying things like “Just wait!!” confirming or denying anything I put forward, outside information about the cast interviews or creator statements, leading questions like “Do you think “blank moment” means anything?” etc. Remember that Y’ALL HAVE SEEN THE SHOW AND I HAVE NOT. This informs the way you talk about things relating to the show. Just be really careful is all I’m asking. Also: If there is LITERALLY any stance I could take on this show or character that would make you upset, please just fucking block the tag

If you WOULD like to discuss the show and my takes on it, the Discord is right here! I don’t go there, so it’s a great place to get every emotion out.

Please thank @sailorsunspot and @moonlight-frittata for backing this odd way of doing a liveblog, and remember my tip jar is always open

Man, this is such an evocative part of the episode, and I almost feel unequal to the task of saying something about it.

I love that there is no real blame to be had for this. Misty had the mushrooms, of course, but it was never her intention to drug everyone in camp. She was absolutely going to drug coach Ben, so I guess there’s that, but it wasn’t her fault, and nor is it the fault of the cook, who had no idea that they were those kind of mushrooms, only thinking that it would be a delightful addition to the stew.

The reason for this is because the show doesn’t want us making this into an event with a wrong doer, it wants to use this to talk about the girls and the way the show is heading.

There’s a definite quasi-Roman bent to the whole thing here with Travis. Travis, the boy who has seen them in every aspect here. Seen them in their nakedness, in who they are when they are separated from society, and I think it’s not for nothing that we shift from this sort of sexual sharing of Travis, this erotic consumption, the way he becomes community property, to a very literal calling him the stag Diana and the hunt thing going on, where they pursue him like hunting hounds.

THIS is the whole reason it was so careful earlier to tell us that they were in fact still very much human because it needs us to know that this is coming out of something that already exists in the girls. Nothing has been lost here, just enhanced, and these girls are hungry and they are predators, and it is speaking to the wildness of women, that terrifying truth that so few people can live with.

The whole of Lottie’s “Something’s coming” thing is of course the wildness and how it moves to control and own and kill through the girls, but also, I would argue that it can’t bring out something that’s not in them. It would be easy to say. “Oh this was all because of the evil whatever in the woods” but I think this was always inside of them. THey are soccer players, and they hunt in packs, and I think this spoke a lot to that level of power in the group, maybe that’s even why this whatever in the woods thing that I certainly hope the show has plans for took them in the first place. Violence isn’t a part of doing shrooms, really. What it did was allowed them to see themselves as part of this wilderness, this forest, that cries out for blood.

Important social shift for this moment with Jackie being told she doens’t matter, the one-time leader of them, the domesticated one more than all of them, the one who cannot adapt to

The wild and so will be slain by it. And of course it’s Lottie who says this, and of course it’s Lottie who calls for Travis’ death, because Lottie is going to be their leader now, their spiritual guide, a girl who lost her light in the darkness and does not understand that she herself is no lighthouse but a bonfire.

But it was Shauna who was ready to make the cut. Shauna who was willing to kill, and maybe it’s always been her.

#Doc watches Yellowjackets #Yellowjackets S1 E9

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mydaroga · 11 months

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A few words about the Meta the Beatles (18+) discord server, in case you were curious but weren’t sure if it’s for you!

I started it (with help, and always open to suggestion) because I wanted there to be a place to have discussions about Beatles topics that didn’t get bogged down in the poor mechanics and cloudy manners of Tumblr: it’s hard to have ongoing discussions, and most people I talk to seem to be unsure if it’s even allowed, half the time. I’ve avoided saying too much here earlier, because I wanted to make sure I had it set up and it was running and stuff, but I also created it so there would be a place you don’t have to already be part of a group to join. It’s open to everyone, and the only reason it’s been difficult to get in (if it has) is because 1) people didn’t know about it and 2) I was being relatively quiet about it until, like I said, I had it set up and it was working.

It’s open to everyone, like I said, but it’s possibly not for everyone, just on the basis of different people fandoming in different ways. This is supposed to be a place you can do the things you can’t do on tumblr, like, have conversations and debate and (gasp!) disagree and still have a nice day.

The way it’s set up now is: we have scheduled book, film, and record discussions that overlap depending on how much time it takes. Generally it’s one record a week, one movie every two weeks or so, and books vary with length. Right now we’re reading Doggett’s You Never Give Me Your Money, watching the George Harrison documentary, and listening to the White Album. But I’m sure the records will come around again. Then there are other channels for various non-schedule Beatles discussion. It tends to be more on the historical/musical/discussion side of things rather than fanworks, though lots of us are creators and there is fic and vid discussion. I’d say it’s lighter on photos and shipping and that sort of thing, not that those aren’t allowed (everything’s allowed) it’s just that, I think, it’s filling a gap that Tumblr wasn’t, and Tumblr has shipping pretty well cornered.

It’s pretty small though, with a handful of active members, and discussion is quality but not constant. So if you’re looking for a low key but thoughtful experience, this might do the trick!

And if anyone reading this feels left out, I am sorry. I did try to reach out to everyone in my circle in posts and PMs and I’m sure things got missed, but it wasn’t intentional.

#questions? comments? concerns?#meta the beatles #beatles discord #kris talks a lot

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emptyperspectiv · 2 years

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I kinda want to share thus post to Twitter eventually, but I just wanna vent for a second if that's cool. Please totally feel free to over look this post, you have no obligation to stick around and read this. No gags, no gimics at all. Genuinely, I'm okay with this not getting any attention.

There's a couple things I've been weirdly fixated on, well a few tbh it's more than 2 things. Just yesterday, our of the blue I rembered something thay happened when I flew out for my friends wedding in 2019. When I thought parts of my life were at what I considered a peak. It wasn't but looking back on that time, in ways I'm glad I don't speak to some of these people any more, and don't really have much regret about those decisions. What really stood out the most was the fact that a group of women who got together to celebrate a mutual friend getting hitched, and the night we spent before just talking.

I actually had my sexual experiences completely invalidated, and in a way it was really humiliating. We had been discussing kinks and some of the sexual experiences we've had were. There was I wanna say one gal in particular who really went out of her way to completely make me feel small by what she said. I felt like I was told that I wasn't bisexual enough for not having a 3 way, and for not fucking friends so therefore my experiences didn't matter. And the night continued that way, I completely shut down and I'm sure no one noticed or cared. This isn't some type of oh pitty me comment, but I'm sad that I tried wining validation from someone who I don't care about, and in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter. I am valid with the things I have experienced, and I don't need to prove it by bragging about being in a 3 way with a friend. Also funny considering she convinced said married friend she was bisexual, when she wasn't and once again I was invalidated when asked my opinion and my story. She was fed up with her husband and made a biphobic joke that she she just date women knowing I'm bi. I also welcomed any venting and trauma dumping as a therapist friend until I realized that it wasn't healthy for me or our friendship to be her personal therapist. Once I made it clear I was no longer going to be a personal therapist for martial issues because working was already stressful, things came to a stop all at once. There was nothing left to be said. That's also not a good friend, at least to me and not people I want to be around. I am not here to be made small so someone else can feel better about themselves. You can tear down someone else and make homophobic remarks to someone else, while pretending not to be. I don't have the energy to really care anymore.

Which actually brought me to something that was brought up in a discord server I'm in where someone's been asking daily questions, that I've loved. They asked about seeing 5 years in the future vs going back to a specific day in the past. I chose the future over the past. As much as I would love to go back and indulge in those good days, at least rhe ones that were good, I don't think I could. Not only would it being up a lot of past trauma and feel like a massive leap backwards, but I wanna know that what I'm working towards is worth all the stress I'm feeling now. Plus, going back to the past and having the ability to change things with foresight, as tempting as it is I wouldn't change anything. I know, I know it's kinda fucked up given some of what I've shared here. I've been put in a lot of not ideal situations, more than I'd like to admit but it's helped me be the person I am now. Trust me, there's a lot of my past self I don't like. For example the past me who didn't realize thag I was actually unkind to friends, who hurt people because I was hurt, who quite literally was a piece of shit to people because of what was going on in my own life. But I learned and grew from it. Just like with what I mentioned earlier.

Lastly, I've been thinking a lot about some of the dreams I've had. They've been pretty weird but also have made me think about things I do like about myself, which is hard for me to talk about because I'm overly hard on myself and don't really realize it until I say it out loud or type it. For example, I feel like I'm really empathetic but being so empathetic has caused my emotions to get the better of me in some cases (like work). I also feel that I don't work hard enough, and when I take time off work or call out sick that I'm being a burden to my job or that someone else needs the time more than I do, besides what would I do other than sit around in the house. So because I feel that I don't work hard enough, I burn myself out to get the smallest crumb of validation that I'm doing well and that my work is proud of me for being so passionate when what I am doing is for validation.

It's weird small things, but yeah. Anywaus. This was nice to just vent since I don't really vent to anyone because I would feel like a burden and an annoyance. But thus feels good. Thanks for just letting me have a space to vent.

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iszoffxi · 2 years

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Hello Everyone!!!

My name is Neutered I have been a NA player since 2004 and have been playing the game almost every single day since. I am not the type of person who jumps to the front of the line to get all the best gear or even speak up in my group to get something I want. I am nothing more then a calm,peaceful and cooperative player. I most certainly have seen my fair share of Link shells that do not treat people fairly but those are in the OLD DAYS RIGHT??? Sadly...I Was SO WRONG...

I left Phoenix due to my group being 100% gone and I felt lonely so I made that jump a lot of people make and moved to Asura.. Least to say it was such a nightmare for me I lasted only a few weeks before I wanted to find a new home with players who have different core values. So I came to Carbuncle since I had seen some decent posts from there on here fig. I would try it.. I was there for a couple weeks before looking for a group and I found one which was named DivineWind and the person who invited me was Kukiki.

During my time there, I was pretty quite trying to get a feel for how friendly some people are and how I can find a way to fit in. I really wanted to do events with them earlier but I always felt like they were only looking for certain people in there link shell to know of events and gatherings. I finally had some time off and decided to do my 1st run with them doing Dynamis D Bastok. I do not want to get into details of who was there etc.. But a few things really stood out to me.. Iszo who is the Link Shell leader there at least he leads events from what I see, was speaking to everyone in the group on Discord and Chat like they were just a bunch of children who did not know what they had to do when in fact it was more about what HE WANTED THEM TO DO even if it was not explained. Some of the people there are as Sweet as pie like Sea*** and Kya*** and even my friend Sonic***! However Iszo was talking down to everyone in group and belittling them along the way, it was minor but def right there!! When asked to some people how they deal with being spoken to like that there response is he is a good leader in sense but very poor with communication and aggression issues.

It started during the last 15mins, after me mentioning over and over I needed a heal or direction on when I can fight did they realize that Sonic*** (SAM) was there ONLY DD and they would be in trouble. This was upsetting me through the run because I mentioned that I was there, I had a red AG and Kukiki the other leader knew I was completed with my weapon as we discussed it during me getting a link shell there. Sonic*** (SAM) was too far away and with 15min they had to fight Galka NM in Bastok to get points for there weapons, so 5 people in discord mentioned my name and that I would have to be only DD for rest of run. A few moments later they got Sonic*** up and starting buffing up, they left me in the 3rd' party with a AFK person and a COR (mule) that only gave me 1 set of rolls during 1st wave, they then added a 2nd cor once they buffed 1st party and started fight without even remembering who I was and that I was there.. I felt like ...empty...they hyped me up but they were only hype about fighting boss and how there run was messed up.. I waved/cheered/sighed and its like I was just not there... They failed poorly at fighting boss due to being able to work together to see who is in there group, the outcome could have been entirely different but instead here I am explaining myself to show how poorly this group as at communicating with each other.

After We zoned out, Iszo continued to say in Discord how mad he was and that he doesn't understand why we only had one DD, when I was clearly there... He stated he did not know I was DD.. He also then said well you prob do not even have good gear anyways.. which was a insult because my gear is decent and I was able to fight boss with 0 buffs but it wasn't impact-full. Iszo continued to belittle me at that point after I mentioned how upset I was that I was left out, he then said "Who the F are you".. I was taken back.. how can a group look up to someone who treats a new member like that..He continued to argue with me and everyone in Link-shell realized they messed up but yet Iszo would not admit his fault and became stubborn and hurtful to me. Then he said the big one... "You can go F yourself"...:( He tried to get other members to get me to give in to the petty ways the group operates with him and accept this is the way things are sometimes.. Yes sometimes for you..because you have to deal with this on a day to day basis and I do not, I left the group but Iszo continued to try to mitigate the damage done when it already done and a person is impacted and he just often said things to try to make him not look so bad..Iszo said those things, and sadly Iszo has no earned right to ask for them back or deserve a opportunity to apologize for his actions.

There is not much more I have to say about this Foul Mouthed Child Iszo, he will get his own..His reputation around him is very poor as others have told me over the last few days and I am sharing my experience with everyone who wishes to hear. I wish the best for the people around him to find hope and see what is really going on.

So what exactly is Divinewind.. A Link-Shell? A bunch of Gamers?.. Nah its just a horribly run group of leaders that will accept anyone into the group and use them in anyway possible for the leaders own progression and they will use you in every-way they can, without you being a real part of it :(

Thank You All for Listening if you made it this far!!Happy Gaming!

Sincerely,

xNeutered

PS: Yes I still plan to keep playing for now, maybe somewhere else. Thanks for asking :)

Thank you for sharing your story. I’m sorry that you are yet another person that Iszo has driven away with his terrible behavior, and I’m glad that you’re not giving up on the game!

#iszo #ffxi #final fantasy xi

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cyelatm · 3 years

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Hi everyone. I've spent the past few months struggling to decide if this is even worthwhile to say, and after a lot of thought I've come to the conclusion that I need to talk about this, both for my own peace of mind and because it's the truth, and telling the truth is the right thing to do. At the end of last year, as a result of massive public pressure as well as manipulative behavior from my ex, I confessed to abuse that I did not enact on my former partner, who did guest comics for cyelatm while I recovered from burnout. I was accused of offering to split my Patreon earnings with her, then suddenly and without warning withdrawing that source of income. We never discussed or agreed to sharing the Patreon money, and this was never a source of income my ex was dependent on. I'm including screenshots of some discord conversations to provide more context for our collaboration.

We were already romantically involved when my ex partner offered to help out with my daily comics, and she expressed understanding that splitting my Patreon income between the two of us wasn't feasible for me because I was already making very little. She reaffirmed this understanding when I asked to take the comic over full time again. Here is a tumblr ask she responded to shortly after the collaboration ended where she describes the situation exactly as I understood it to be, right up until her callout.

My ex implied that I exploited her sexually because I controlled her housing situation and could kick her out at any time. This is also untrue. My ex had legal protection under our lease, which I made sure she was on. We both contributed to monthly living expenses, and as I mentioned earlier, I made very little money from cyelatm and had no financial power to exert over her. I was making about as much as the average McDonald's cashier. We continued the exact same relationship we had established before and during our creative collaboration. If my ex had become less comfortable with our relationship after the collaboration ended, this was never discussed. She then accused me of kicking her out of the apartment without warning. This isn't true. I tried, as amicably as possible, to end our relationship, which had been steadily worsening since we had originally moved in together. I wanted to remain friends and offered to keep living together. My ex declined. This was followed by an episode of verbal abuse that caused me to leave the apartment shortly after. I never once returned to the apartment. She lived there until the lease ran out in April - here are her very own tweets detailing her move & even elaborating that she wasn't even being kicked out.

It has taken me a long time to process, but throughout most of our relationship, my ex would undermine and devalue me on a regular basis. She treated me like an annoyance whenever I was in common areas of the apartment, got into stormy, unpredictable moods and would suicide bait me which we'd discussed multiple times is a huge trigger for me. I had been worn down over several months, so her claims that the dissolution of our relationship had been all my fault and that I'm a horrible disgusting person were claims I readily took the blame for. I deeply regret doing this. I should have stood up for myself and told the truth as soon as all of this was put out there, but I didn't have the perspective or emotional fortitude to do that at the time. I was afforded no time to think about what I was being accused of or how to respond as immediate explanations and apologies were demanded of me. After several months of reflection, as well as conversations I've had with people who were similarly mistreated by my ex, I feel that I have a better grasp on what happened here. I still have no interest in becoming a "public figure”, and for my own health I'm committed to limiting my emotional investment in the internet. I am still striving to be a better, healthier person than I was before. However, I cannot sit on this information any longer as it's causing me a lot of inner turmoil and I don't think I can move on without talking about it. If you've read all of this, thank you.

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phoenixyfriend · 3 years

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Time-Traveled Clones Give Anakin a Mental Breakdown

So @purronronner suggested the below on discord:

mental time travel au but it’s only clones (definitely Cody and/or Rex, possibly others)

Which we obviously all took and just... ran with. Contributors include Purrs, @the-lunar-system, and @atagotiak.

Initial brainstorming was just us trying to figure out how many clones did the mental travel, from when, etc. - Ended up deciding on 'significantly post-O66' and 'some but not all' - Mostly it's the angle that the only people who have an idea of what’s coming are the ones who aren’t even seen as people by most. THey have very little leverage to work with but they’ve gotta do something.

(I personally like the idea that Boba travels because Jango has to deal with the fact that His Baby Boy is suddenly much more adult and serious and also telling him that the whole Kamino thing is going to Destroy Everything Including Mandalore, And Revenge Against The Jedi Won't Be Worth It, but that idea got scrapped because he's got too much influence via dad.)

Rex and the clones that died when Rex & Ahsoka were escaping 66. Because Rex would probably be very regretful he couldn’t save them. The others would probably be understanding of the situation and even worse some of them would be thankful that he stopped them. - Strategic mass desertion via faked KIA reports as medics smuggle people out to investigate what's trying to kill the Jedi through the clones - Also they can manage a lot by doing surgeries and reprogramming Med droids and stuff. At the very least Palpatine can’t manage such a sudden and decisive victory without subverting the clones. The political angle is probably still a complicated mess but he can’t just snap his fingers and do a genocide, y’know? - IMO at least Fives is definitely on the list of time-travelers.

The Krell Situation is, uh... handled. Quickly. - Sometimes friendly fire just happens, you know? Accidents.

Mass Distrust of Anakin Skywalker - He knows they don't like him but has no idea why. - On the one hand, they loved them some TCW Anakin. On the other hand, look where that takes him...

Anakin keeps feeling like the clones are mourning him while he's standing right there. More than the other Jedi, even! All the Jedi feel vague grief from some of the clones, usually in a way that makes no sense, but the vibe they have around Anakin is a mindfuck. - Some of them want to get away and fast, some of them want to figure out how to fix him, none of them are at all happy with this.

He does one of those somewhat concerning TCW things where Imperial March plays faintly in the background, and while in the first timeline the clones would write it off as him being a little bit angrier than most Jedi (and he never takes it out on them, y’know?), this time they’re reacting… poorly. - They're scared of him this time. - And lbr the clones... while they’re largely good, moral people, have less rigid ethical rules than the Jedi and are more used to thinking of things in terms of us-vs-them as well as the Jedi-know-best conditioning, so they probably wrote off a lot the first time around (and now blame themselves, just a little, for Vader).

They, uh, they maybe get a bit twitchy... and the specific fear a few of "Vader's Fist" feel is so similar to the fear Anakin sensed around slaves in Gardulla's that he starts having flashbacks. - Anakin at one point spirals so deep into a flashback that he mutters something about how "she" is going to eat him and nobody can figure out who the fuck he's talking about, because nobody knows about Gardulla, possibly not even Obi-Wan, since that was TODDLER Anakin and while Watto may have come up, Obi-Wan probably didn't even think Anakin would have remembered toddler-age stuff, so Gardulla was never really discussed. - All anyone knows is that Anakin is fine with Ahsoka, so it's not her, but she's the only person on board using she/her pronouns so far since none of the clones are socially transitioning yet. - (Apparently Gardulla just ate her slaves sometimes? And Anakin had to live with the knowledge that that was a possibility for him? Until he was three? Fucked up, bro.) - (I'm just really invested in AUs where Anakin's 'not going evil' path kicks off in part with a breakdown where he can't keep himself in denial about the slavery element of the clones anymore.)

"They're scared of me." "Sir--" "They're scared the way we all were at Gardulla's what did I do?"

This would be pretty soon after Return to Tatooine, and Tatooine Three: Electric Boogaloo so Anakin is like... peak slave trauma rn anyway.

Anakin has a breakdown much earlier than in canon, and in precisely the opposite direction, loudly and blatantly enough that the Temple has to ground him for a bit, and even Palpatine can't get that overturned until the medics say so. - Also one of the key points: Anakin doesn’t resent it in the same way. - It’s uh. Less. The “The Jedi are afraid of my power (and Palpatine says that’s why I can’t just do what I want)” and more “the clones are afraid of my power (arguably with good reason)”

people above you fearing (+ limiting) you: hits right in the slave trauma people under you fearing you: still slave trauma but flipped all the way around

This is just back to back: - Mom died because you couldn't save her, on Slave Planet - You slaughtered an entire tribe of Tuskens, including the children, and have been putting a lot of effort into convincing yourself you're not a monster - You got chained up and threatened with public execution via Consumed by Big Thing (and are abruptly reminded of toddlerhood, where you were at risk of being Consumed by Gardulla, a Big Thing) - Clone army, basically slaves, can't think about that too hard or you'll freak out - (Secret marriage, which is stressful but not hitting the slave trauma button.) - You had to save a baby Hutt -- You had to help a slaver Hutt -- ON SLAVE PLANET AGAIN -- WHILE THE HUTT IS THREATENING TO KILL YOU - (Someone just GAVE YOU A CHILD, which is stressful but not hitting the slave trauma button.) - Half the clones treat you like a more impuslive Obi-Wan, and half of them are... scared and wary and you don't know what to do about that - You did something kinda fucked up and now half the slaves clones are fine and the other half feel like they're waiting for you to kill them in your anger - Fuck - Fuck

#time travel #anakin skywalker #the clone wars #clones #star wars #Ahsoka Tano #slavery mention #Gardulla #Obi Wan Kenobi #Captain Rex #Fives #Phoenix Posts

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skyeet-the-writer · 4 years

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The Love Among Us

Chapter 1-- I’d Never Snitch On Daddy

so i haven’t seen many corpse husband x reader stories on here, so i decided to upload one myself. i’ve been watching jacksepticeye’s among us videos and when i heard corpse talk for the first time, i was like, “hol up” and now i’ve been obsessed with him. also, go stream his music on spotify, it’s amazing. enjoy! x.

corpse husband x female!reader

summary: while playing among us, y/n watches corpse kill felix in o2. when his body is reported, however, she doesn’t tell who killed him.

word count: ~3.6k

warnings: swearing, mentions of death (not real death), mentions of murder (not real murder)

EDIT: before i wrote this and after i published it, i did not know that corpse did not like to be referred to as “daddy”. had i known this, i would have not even thought of posting this. and since i know now, i won’t refer to him as such in the future. thank you. (10/19/2020)

EDIT 2: this is the first part to my corpse x reader series. i will be adding chapters as we go!

next>

4 rounds before the incident

“I was in coms with PJ!” Sean exclaims.

“He is doing the liar voice!” Felix shouts with a laugh.

“I’m not,” Sean tries to say, but everyone talks over him and the voting time ends. Everyone left alive, though it was only four people, had all voted for him and he yells at them as he gets ejected.

stinky was not the imposter

2 imposters remain

The round ends and everyone unmutes themselves.

“Lizzie, you saw Felix kill me and you did nothing!” Roomie yells as soon as the round ends and the imposters are revealed.

“Yeah, because I was the other imposter.”

“Oh. Okay, well that makes sense.”

Everyone laughs and Ken starts the round again.

“Wait, can I invite y/n to play? She’s doing her twenty-four-hour stream and she just finished playing Monopoly with Mark, Bob, and Wade,” says Lizzie, looking down at her phone as they all appear back in the waiting room.

“Yes,” Corpse blurts out and there are a few laughs and chuckles.

“You were quick to answer, Corpse,” Sean teases.

“Shut up,” Corpse mumbles and there are even more laughs.

Lizzie smiles and taps into her phone. “I’m gonna invite her.”

“I can’t believe that you actually made that deal, y/n,” Wade is telling you after ending the second round of Monopoly that you’ve played with them.

You smile and cross your legs on your chair. “Look, I was going bankrupt and it seemed good at the time. Besides, Mark was going to win anyway, he owned half of the board.” Your phone buzzes beside you on your desk and you pick it up. “Lizzie texted me.” There’s a sound effect that plays in your headset and you look up at your screen and smile. “Thanks to _lorieplays _for donating a hundred dollars, that means a lot. Thank you so much.”

“Do you want to play another round?” Marks asks.

You shake your head, reading the text from your friend in England. “No, I don’t want to lose to you again.” You laugh. “Nah, Lizzie wants me to play Among Us with her and a few others. It was fun playing with you guys.”

“It was even though you took all of my money,” Bob snaps.

You laugh. “Yeah, yeah. See you guys later.”

“Bye,” says Mark.

“See y--” Wade begins but you cut him off when you disconnect from the call.

“Oops.” You put a hand over your mouth and laugh. “Sorry, Wade. Okay.” You straighten up and glance over everything, making sure it’s all working properly. “I have to pee and I think my roommate ordered pizza, so we’ll be back after this short break. Enjoy this live feed of my pet rats.” You giggle and switch the stream over to a view of your two rats in their cage where you have a camera set up. You take your headset off and head out of your recording room.

Every two months, you have a twenty-four-hour livestream where you play games with your friends from all around the world. Despite being only twenty-five, your Youtube channel had grown exponentially in the past three years and you’ve had the chance to meet lots of other Youtubers like Markiplier, PewDiePie, and your close friend, LDShadowLady.

Currently, you’re on hour twenty of twenty-four and you’re beginning to feel the effects of not sleeping for a whole day. You had been drinking coffee and energy drinks for the past four hours and that seemed to perk you up for two hours max. But your roommate had ordered pizza and that would hopefully wake you up.

After going to the bathroom and grabbing an entire box of pizza, you return to your recording room and sit down. You put your headset back on and eat a slice of pizza before switching the views back to you. “And we’re back. I hope you guys enjoyed my rats because I don’t. They keep me up at night.”

You read a comment while loading up Among Us and laugh. “No, they’re not dead. They’re sleeping. They do that a lot when they’re not fighting.”

When you finally get into the game and entire the code, you spawn in. You also quickly join the Discord chat and wince when nearly ten voices hit you at once.

“y/n!” exclaims Lizzie and the other voices die down for a moment before rising to greet you.

You wince again but laugh. “Jesus, you guys are loud. Hey, Lizzie.” You move your character to the customize tab and go to try and switch your color. But then you frown and realize that you’re stuck with being dark blue. “Damn, I wanted to be white.”

“Do you want to switch?” Corpse asks.

Your eyes widen you your stomach flips. You hadn’t noticed Corpse was in this game. Immediately, your chat became flooded with keyboard smashing and lots of “omg my shipp” and “y/n rlly said ‘anna oop-’”

“Uh, yeah, if you don’t mind,” you manage to stutter out and take a bite of pizza as Corpse’s player comes over and the white option becomes available. You select it and also select the goggles in the hats menu.

“How’s your stream going?” asks Sean.

You shrug. “Pretty good. I’m super tired, though. I literally almost fell asleep while playing Monopoly with Mark, Wade, and Bob.”

“You went to college, right?” You’re pretty sure that’s Roomie.

“Yep,” you affirm with a nod even though they can’t see you. “You’d think that those all-nighters writing papers and studying for finals would make me able to do this.”

There’s a laugh in the group and the round starts.

3 rounds before the incident

You scratch your eyebrow and sigh in relief when you’re the crewmate. You mute yourself and slide up in your chair.

“I like being the crewmate,” you say, heading towards admin as a habit. “It’s a lot less stressful than being imposter.”

After doing your tasks in admin and fueling the engines, you stumble across a dead body in the lower engine and a vent closing.

“Oh,” you say, and press the report button. You unmute yourself and begin with, “So I saw a vent close but I didn’t see who went in.”

“Who died?” asks Lizzie.

“Felix,” says Sean.

You smirk. “It’s always yellow that dies first.”

“Where was the body?” Ken asks.

“Lower engine,” you reply.

“I was in medbay with Corpse doing the scan so it wasn’t him,” PJ says and Corpse makes a noise of confirmation.

This makes your cheeks heat up and you smack a hand over your mouth. Your chat explodes again but you decide to ignore it.

“And I was doing wires in cafeteria,” Lizzie says.

“Sean, where were you?”

“I was in reactor doing the simon says thing,” he answers.

You sigh. “I hate that one. What about you, Ken?”

“I was with Roomie in electrical doing the power thing. You know, the one where you have to divert it somewhere else.”

“So do we skip then?” asks Lizzie.

“No one is super sus, so I’m going to skip,” you answer.

When no one is ejected, you mute yourself again. “I dunno why, but Sean seems pretty sus. Because I didn’t see him on the way down from upper engine. But I guess he could have gotten there in time.” You shrug and run over to the trash chute in the cafeteria. “RIP to Felix, though.”

After doing the trash there, you head down to storage, running into Corpse doing the wires in there. You wait there to clear him and once you do, you run a few circles around him to get his attention and he follows you over to the trash in storage and watches you do that. After that, the two of you head over to electric together and do wires there.

Suddenly, there’s a body reported and you unmute yourself.

“Sean just killed Lizzie in front of me!” exclaims PJ.

“PJ killed Lizzie,” Sean retorts, flipping the blame. “I watched it, he didn’t realize I was there and murdered her.”

“I watched PJ do the scan in medbay, he’s cleared,” Corpse says and you find yourself smiling for no reason. “Sean, you killed Lizzie.”

“I knew he was sus,” you say, grabbing another piece of pizza. You look at the box and your eyes widen. Had you really already eaten half of it?

“Wait wait, how am I sus?” Sean asks.

You take a moment to swallow. “Because when I was doing fuel earlier, I was running down from upper engine and didn’t see you in reactor. Sure, maybe you could have gotten there earlier, but it was super weird.”

The discussion time ends and PJ immediately goes to vote for Sean as well as you, Corpse, and everyone else still alive. Sean ends up getting ejected.

stinky was an imposter

1 imposter remains

“You’re such a detective, y/n,” Sean says when he gets ejected.

You laugh. “I just play this game too much.” You then mute yourself and smile. “I am a genius.”

You end up finishing your tasks quickly after that and then stand in the cafeteria and eat another piece of pizza and read some of the chat.

“’ What am I going to do after this?’ I don’t know. I might play some Minecraft. Should I have a poll on Twitter? I’m stuck between public Among Us games, Minecraft, and taking random quizzes on Buzzfeed.” You smile and hear another sound effect and something pops up on the screen. “Thank you to coochie man for donating a hundred dollars, that means a lot.” You laugh at their name. “I love your name, by the way.”

There’s some rattling in the cage behind you and you turn around to see one of your rats drinking water. You turn back to the chat and read another comment. “’ Do you have a crush on Corpse?’” You blush and smile, biting your lip. “I mean, his voice is hot. I’ve never met him since he lives in San Diego and I live in h/t, but yeah, I guess I do. I’ve been listening to his music for the past few days and it’s really good, you guys should go check it out.”

You look up and unmute yourself when a body is reported. “Who died?” you ask. “I wasn’t paying attention.”

“Are you already done with your tasks, y/n?” Corpse asks.

God, even the way he says your name is making you blush. “Yeah, I get them done quick.”

“She does that,” says Lizzie, “She always gets her tasks done quick.”

“Ken is dead by the way,” says Roomie and your snort, smacking a hand over your mouth. “I found him in the hallway by navigation. Where was everyone else?”

“I was in cafeteria doing nothing,” you say, leaning back in your chair and spinning around just a little. “I think I saw PJ downloading while I was in there, but I wasn’t paying attention.”

“Yeah, I was downloading,” says Ken.

After more discussion, Corpse points out that Jaiden had been following him and it looked like she had been faking tasks.

“No I haven’t,” she says.

“That sounds like something the imposter would say,” you hum with a smirk. “That’s pretty sus, Jaiden.”

Everyone else agrees and you all end up voting Jaiden out.

jaiden was the imposter

0 imposters remain

You cheer as the round ends and a blue victory screen pops up for the crewmates. “Good game, guys,” you say and play again, waiting for the host.

1 round before the incident

“Oh my god, I’m imposter again?” you groan and sigh when you spawn back in. “I was just imposter, I don’t want to be it again. I’m so bad at it,”

After another short round of you and Felix losing to the crewmates, you all agreed to play two more rounds before Sean had to leave. So you move your character to admin where PJ is and fake the card swipe before moving over to the admin security thing where you could see who was around where. Luckily, no one appeared to be near admin, so you quickly kill PJ and escape through the vent and come out through medbay.

“Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god,” you whisper over and over, running down to storage. “That was clean.” You fake getting fuel and go back up to the upper engine.

When PJ’s body is reported, you see that your fellow imposter, Sean, had reported it. You stay silent for most of the round and only say that you were in the fuel area when it was reported.

“Yeah, I saw her run past electrical earlier,” Corpse says. You blush and glance at your exploding chat and shake your head.

After everyone skips the round, you mute yourself once more and head towards navigation. “I hate this.” You drag the last syllable and watch Lizzie enter the room. You wait a moment before walking towards her and killing her, jumping into one of the vents. You let out a sigh and flex your fingers. “I’m so stressed.” You exit out of the vent into shields and your heart stops when you see someone else in there but you realize that it’s the other imposter, Sean, and you relax.

You run past him and go to the trash compartments and pretend to unload those. And that’s how the rest of the round goes. You kill someone, someone reports it and you vote someone off. Eventually, you and Sean do a double kill and end up winning the round.

You unmute yourself.

“Let’s go!” Sean exclaims and you smile.

“I can’t believe you killed me, y/n!” shouts Lizzie. “I thought we were friends.”

You laugh. “There are no friends in this game. I’m not loyal to anyone in this game. You could be my best friend and I would fucking murder you.”

“That’s cold,” says Roomie as everyone else spawns back in.

“Yeah,” you nod.

“Wait, PJ disconnected,” says Sean, and you all end up waiting for him to rejoin.

In that time, you look at your chat and say, “Hey, do you guys have any questions for who I’m playing with. I’m asking you, chat.”

“I swear if someone asks about my hands, I’m leaving,” Corpse says and everyone laughs.

You laugh louder when you read a comment and read it aloud, “_Ironlady _says that you should be a hand model, Corpse.”

“Okay, I’m leaving,” you hear Corpse say over everyone laughing.

“No, stay!” you exclaim, trying not to laugh. “C’mon, don’t leave.”

He sighs deeply and your brain goes fuzzy. “Fine. I’ll stay for you.”

You beam and your tummy turns. You ignore the whistles and remarks from everyone else and stand beside Corpse. You suddenly wish that the little bean characters could hold hands.

When PJ joins the server again, Ken starts the round and you cross your fingers, hoping to get crewmate.

0 rounds before the incident

You mute yourself and sigh when you’re a crewmate. “Thank god.” You let out a breath and go over to admin with everyone else. You swipe your card and go to the cafeteria to do some wires there.

The game turns out to be rather uneventful. A few people die and two people are voted off before the game gets truly interesting. And that happens when you walk in on Corpse and Felix.

“I’ve had this song stuck in my head for days,” you’re saying, walking from electrical over to O2. “And I can’t get it out of my head. Maybe singing it will help.” You hum the first part. “Don't go in there, you'll become one. Freaky creatures, monster party. Eyes of yellow, scales and feathers, tails in tethers. Turn the lights off. Bend the nightmare, you control it. Artful dodger, easy does it. Shut the closet, get under the covers. Snakes and lovers. Turn the lights off.” You do a little dance for a moment and continue hum the song, glancing at the chat as you go towards O2 after doing wires in storage.

“Like, I know the song, it’s just been stuck in my head,” you explain. “And it kind of annoys me--”

But you stop as you enter O2 and watch Corpse murder Felix. Neither one of you move and you don’t know what to do. “Uhhh.”

Then, without thinking, you turn straight around and make your way away from the scene of the murder. “I didn’t see anything!” you shout to no one. “I suddenly can’t see who murdered Felix.” You smack a hand over your mouth and stand in the middle of a hallway. “Oh my god, what do I do? I don’t want to snitch on Corpse, he’s hot.” You scratch the back of your neck and shrug, continuing on to reactor. “I didn’t see anything.”

You’re in the middle of doing the simon says in reactor when Felix’s body is reported. You unmute yourself and fidget with the sleeve of your hoodie. You know exactly who killed Felix.

“--was in O2,” says Jaiden and you focus back into the conversation. “And I didn’t see anyone around.”

“I saw you heading that way, y/n, but I know it wasn’t you because I saw you do the trash in storage.”

You look at the screen when Sean talks to you and you chew your lip. “I know who killed Felix.”

“Who?” asks almost everyone at the same time.

You close your eyes and swallow. It’s just a game, why are you taking this so seriously? Suddenly, a song lyric pops into your head and your stomach flips. You imagine yourself saying it and no one knows who you mean except for him.

You open your eyes. “I’d never snitch on daddy.”

There’s a laugh in the chat and you blush fiercely, your livestream chat blowing up once again.

“I think we know who it is, then,” says Sean, laughing.

“Yeah,” agrees Lizzie and your eyes widen.

“Wait, what?” you ask, watching everyone vote almost as soon as the discussion time ends. “Wait, hang on, who--”

“We know who you’re talking about, y/n,” PJ tells you.

You vote for yourself and your brain goes blank as you see that everyone voted for Corpse. He even voted for himself. They knew. They all _knew _about your feelings for Corpse.

The round ends with Corpse being voted out and the crewmates win. There’s some talking, but you stay on the victory screen. You’re trying to decide if your mad or embarrassed or both.

“I didn’t know you’d say that, y/n,” Corpse says, effectively breaking you out of your trance. “I thought you were gonna snitch on me.”

“You heard her,” teases Lizzie and you can tell she’s grinning. “She’d never snitch on you, Corpse.”

He laughs and you feel something in a certain place. “Oh my god, I’m gonna die of embarrassment.” You put your face in your hands, listening to your friends tease you in the chat. You suddenly want to jump out your window and run into traffic.

“Don’t die,” comes Corpse’s voice through the onslaught of teasing. “I’ll be sad.”

“Fuck!” you shout and slam your hand on your desk, shaking your equipment and scaring your rats. “I’m so sorry, Corpse, that was really weird, I--”

“Stop.” He interrupts you and the chat goes silent and you look up at the screen even though you can’t see him. “It’s okay. It was funny.”

Your eyes widen and then narrow. Funny? He thought what you said was funny? How could he think it was funny?

But then he speaks again and he sounds oddly flustered. “Uh, I gotta go. Um, it was fun playing with you guys. Bye, y/n.”

“Bye Cor--” but then he disconnects and you’re left talking to no one. “--pse.”

There’s a long moment of silence until Felix breaks it. “I can’t believe you just watched me die and didn’t do anything about it.”

There are some laughs and you smile faintly, rejoining the game. “Yeah, uh, sorry about that.”

“Are you okay, y/n?” asks Lizzie.

You blush and swallow. “I don’t know. God, I’m so weird.” You run a hand through your hair and adjust your headphones

“No, you’re not,” Roomie assures you. “He has a crush on you, too.”

Your eyes widen and you scoot up in your chair. “He does?”

“I mean, he called you pretty once during a game and said that he watches your videos a lot, so maybe.”

You groan and sink in your chair. “I’m gonna go, I need to run into traffic now.”

A few people laugh or chuckle and Lizzie asks you if you’re actually going to leave.

“Yeah,” you tell her. “But not to run into traffic. I’m going to go play Minecraft to soothe myself.”

“Aw.” You can practically hear her frown. “Okay. Bye, y/n.”

“Good luck with your stream,” Ken tells you.

You grin. “Okay, thanks, bye.”

When you exit the game and leave the chat, you scream. You actually scream and it’s loud. Your roommate even knocks on your door, asking if you’re okay.

You look at them and nod. “Yeah, totally fine. Probably about to have a mental breakdown, but I’m fine.”

“Okay,” they say and lean on the doorframe. “But I’m not cutting bangs for you again.”

You laugh and nod. “Yeah, okay, fine.” They leave and you turn back to your stream, feeling like you’re about to cry. Corpse knows you have a crush on him. And it seems like he has one on you as well, but now you’re embarrassed because you called him ‘daddy’ on stream.

You rub your eyes. “Well, now I know what’ll be streaming on Twitter tonight,” you tell the chat.

#corpse_husband #corpse husband #x reader #female reader #corpse husband x reader #corpse_husband x reader #jacksepticeye #among us #ldshadowlady #pewdiepie #fanfic

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robininthelabyrinth · 3 years

Text

Polyphonic

Chapter 3 ao3 (alt: tumblr pt 1, pt 2)

Lan Qiren wanted to speak to Wei Wuxian about everything they needed to do, but it would have to wait: the moment they arrived, they were immediately swept up into the political mess that Jin Zixun’s ill-fated ambush had caused.

Jin Guangshan was there in the blink of an eye, despite normally taking his time in seeing anyone, and Lan Qiren didn’t like the way he started making excuses for his nephew’s behavior from the very start. It was to a certain degree understandable, as everyone would first incline towards defending their family, but the haste with which Jin Guangshan sought to sweep it all under the rug was disconcerting, and Lan Qiren thought it was almost suggestive of some level of premeditation. Even more distasteful, however, was how he sought to twist the entire event into being yet another reason Wei Wuxian ought to surrender the Stygian Tiger Seal to the Jin sect: for his own good, of course, in order to avoid being made into a target on account of the disdain of the cultivation world –

“Sect Leader Jin, your words are in poor taste,” Lan Qiren said sharply.

He could hear Jiang Cheng, who ought to be defending Wei Wuxian and was trying his stuttering best to do so, starting to waver; the boy had a pleasant rippling melody by nature, forced into a fierce allegro by his parents’ endless disputes and his later tragedies, and the weak foundation meant that he was too easily buffeted by uncertainty and doubt, as Jin Guangshan undoubtedly knew.

“Let us not speak in abstraction,” he continued. “It was your sect, your nephew, who launched this particular ambush. You ought to be making a formal apology to Wei Wuxian and thinking of reparations to repair the injury to your sect’s reputation, not acting like a thief complaining to the magistrate that his victim failed to hand over his property quickly enough to prevent violence!”

Jin Guangshan’s eyes narrowed in irritation, though he fought to keep the expression off his face as if it could disguise the swell of bitter rotten music that accompanied him wherever he went. “Teacher Lan,” he said, striving for composed and charming but mostly coming off as stiff and wooden. “Come now, I must be misunderstanding you. Surely you are not accusing me of being a thief.”

Historically, as Jin Guangshan well knew, this was when Lan Qiren backed down, mindful of his position as interim sect leader – his sect granted him much of the responsibility but not the full measure of power that typically accorded with the title, and he was conscious, always, that his role was to ensure there was something preserved for his nephews to inherit.

Perhaps Jin Guangshan had forgotten that Lan Qiren was no longer interim sect leader.

“I am describing the facts as I see them,” he said icily, straightening his back and levelling his best teacher’s glare, refined by years of troublesome students. “And they are this: by the agreement of the cultivation world and through his own powers, Wei Wuxian was inviolate and unbothered as long as he remained in the Burial Mounds. Despite this, he willingly chose to emerge in response to an invitation issued by your sect, only to be attacked by your sect – and when he comes to you for justice, rather than grant it to him, you suggest that he hand over his most prized possession to prevent any similar attacks in the future. Unfamiliarity may require me to consult my sect’s texts to be sure, Sect Leader Jin, but only to determine if I should be calling it extortion, blackmail, or outright thievery!”

“Teacher Lan!” one of the smaller sect leaders gasped, even as Jin Guangshan went utterly florid with rage. “You’re not suggesting that Jin-gongzi was involved in the ambush!”

Lan Qiren had been Jin Zixuan’s teacher and knew him well – he had been a shy, introverted boy whose awkwardness came off as aloofness, and would never have done anything like this. Even less so would Lan Qiren suspect such a thing of the man who had been steadied by war and responsibility into an adult with a firm moral foundation.

“No,” he said, and met Jin Guangshan’s eyes directly. “I believe Jin-gongzi’s invitation to have been wholly sincere.”

For a moment, Lan Qiren thought Jin Guangshan was actually going to strike him, his aura lashing out violently like a clash of cymbals, discordant and biting, and he braced himself, but in the last moment etiquette prevailed and Jin Guangshan refrained, although his fists were clenched so tightly that his veins stood out from the backs of his hands.

That was when Wei Wuxian opened his mouth.

Lan Qiren silenced him with the muting spell before he could get out a single syllable.

Jiang Cheng sent him a thankful glance and cleared his throat. “This is a serious matter,” he said. “It requires a full investigation; we won’t be able to solve it all talking now. Both Wei Wuxian and Teacher Lan have traveled a long way – I have no doubt that they need some time to rest and refresh themselves.”

A convenient way to stop anyone from starting a fight, and implicitly excusing Lan Qiren’s rudeness as a mere symptom of exhaustion, resolving the whole thing without losing any more face for anyone. The Jiang sect’s boy was picking up this whole politics business quite well, the poor child.

“I concur,” Jin Guangshan said, recovering a little of his poise. “There are rooms ready for you both.”

Lan Qiren inclined his head as well. “An excellent idea,” he said, and then, because he could now, added, “We can discuss reparations for the ambush later.”

“And what about the curse?” Jin Zixun hissed, clearly done with holding his tongue the way everyone had been so obviously instructing him with their eyes. “Am I to simply suffer while that criminal walks free and unharmed?”

“When I said there would be an investigation, I meant it!” Jiang Cheng snapped. “I doubt your curse is so advanced that it can’t wait another day, and if it is, then you should have brought it up earlier!”

“Why you –“

“Sect Leader Jiang has spoken,” Jin Zixuan interrupted, his voice hard. “Zixun, don’t forget that you must also answer to me as to what you did to my guest in my name without my permission. I think it might benefit you to ‘rest and refresh’ as well. One of the servants can take you to see a doctor.”

Jin Guangshan seemed on the verge of objecting, but Jin Zixuan seemed not to get the hint, already turning his face away.

“In the meantime,” he said, saluting politely, “Sect Leader Jiang, Wei-gongzi, would you come with me? A-Li is waiting to see you both.”

Lan Qiren allowed himself to be whisked off in a different direction to settle down, which in all honesty he did need to do. He hadn’t flown such a distance in years, had been in better health when he’d done so, and he had been tired even before all this excitement; some rest would do wonders for him, even if it did make him feel a bit like he’d become a doddering old man or an invalid. Before he could settle down, though, he heard a sound approaching – a little uneven, sometimes too fast, sometimes too slow – and despite the fact that Jin Guangyao had never been anything but polite to him, he felt his back tense up at the reminder of why he was here in the first place.

“Honored teacher,” Jin Guangyao said, smiling and saluting deeply – more than he should, really, given that Lan Qiren was neither a sect leader nor had ever been his teacher. “Welcome to Jinlin Tower. I regret that your arrival was marred by such unpleasantness, and hope that the remainder of your visit is calmer.”

It’s not Jin Guangyao’s fault that Lan Xichen likes him, Lan Qiren reminded himself. Your suspicions, and your family’s terrible luck at love, are your own burdens to bear. They should not be put onto others.

He nodded to Jin Guangyao.

“It would be good to see a peaceable resolution to today’s events,” he said neutrally. “I appreciate that you have come to check on me personally. It is truly going above and beyond the call of duty.”

“Your nephew is my sworn brother, Teacher Lan. How could I fail to honor you as my elder?” Jin Guangyao said smoothly. “Let me know if there’s anything we can do to make you more comfortable.”

“A bath before dinner would be nice. Has my nephew arrived yet?” Lan Qiren privately hoped that he hadn’t, and was relieved when Jin Guangyao shook his head, confirming it. “Let me know when he does.”

“Of course,” Jin Guangyao said, and saluted again. “I’ll inform the servants; a bath will be made ready for you by afternoon.”

The moment Jin Guangyao left the room, Lan Qiren traced the pattern along the hem of his robes that shook off the dust of the road, returning them to being as clean and pristine as always – not a long-term solution to laundry, but very effective in the short-run, and one that he’d only refrained from doing earlier in order to drive home the point regarding how he had also been victimized by Jin Zixun’s ambush.

It was a profound relief to be clean again.

Once he could no longer hear Jin Guangyao’s familiar chords, he relaxed, which unfortunately these days meant coughing. He rubbed his chest when he was done, sighing, and settled down with his guqin to start playing a little, hoping to ease his nerves. Lan Xichen would be on his way already, he knew, and would probably move even faster once he got word regarding Lan Qiren’s presence. He’d made rather a lot of trouble for his nephew…

The door slammed open, and only years of experience with troublesome children, along with the warning echo of a song free and clear, full of shining righteousness, allowed Lan Qiren to remain unmoved by the cacophonous crash.

“So I have questions,” Wei Wuxian said. “Many, many questions, and I’m going to want answers to…uh, are you all right?”

Lan Qiren ignored Wei Wuxian’s rush, finishing the stanza he was playing and letting his hands still over the guqin. “Sit, and I will answer your questions to the best of my ability.”

Wei Wuxian closed the door behind him and put up a talisman for privacy, like the ones they used to use during the war, before coming to sit across the table from Lan Qiren. He was frowning. “Honored Teacher Lan, your lips are red,” he said cautiously. “Were you coughing up blood just now?”

“An old injury from the war,” Lan Qiren said, unable to resist recalling the memory of Wen Xu’s wild smirk as he’d deliberately smashed his ribs into pieces, grinding his palm against Lan Qiren’s chest to force the broken pieces to pierce his lungs. Nie Mingjue had executed Wen Xu only a few months later, a matter that had greatly eased his nightmares…truly Lan Qiren had to get to the bottom of this mystery as soon as possible; once Lan Xichen’s name was cleared, he could focus on trying to devise a solution to cleanse Nie Mingjue of the spiritual poison. “It can be aggravated by excess choler. Do not concern yourself about it.”

Wei Wuxian looked like he was concerning himself about it. “But you nearly –” Lan Qiren glared until he dropped the volume of his voice significantly. “You nearly got into a fight with dozens of cultivators back at the Qiongqi Path on my behalf! Wouldn’t that have aggravated it even worse than just getting angry?”

“Much worse,” Lan Qiren agreed peaceably. “My talents in battle are not especially notable, although better with the guqin than the sword. Regardless, the effort expended would almost certainly result in a severe backlash later.”

Wei Wuxian gaped at him. “Then why did you do it?”

“Was there an alternative?”

Wei Wuxian’s mouth opened and closed a few more times.

“How are your shijie and shizi?” Lan Qiren asked when it appeared that Wei Wuxian was not going to force any words out of his mouth any time soon. He folded his hands together in an appropriate manner – he, at least, knew his etiquette, and would continue to model it in the hope that Wei Wuxian might one day catch a hint. “Well, I trust?”

“Uh, yeah, they’re great. Jin Ling is perfect, shijie is wonderful, the peacock doesn’t deserve either of them, though he’s gotten better, I guess,” Wei Wuxian said, then shook his head as if to clear it. “And I wouldn’t have been able to see either of them if not for you.”

Personally, Lan Qiren didn’t think one Jin Zixun and any number of his friends would actually be able to stop Wei Wuxian, preplanned ambush or no, so he just hummed noncommittally. “You said you had questions?”

“Yeah, and now I have even more,” Wei Wuxian grumbled, but he seemed to settle down a little. “Let’s start with the fact that you said you needed help on a musical issue, but that it is also somehow an attempted murder. What’s that about?”

Lan Qiren grimaced. “Serve tea,” he instructed Wei Wuxian, and waited until he was midway through the process – and thus not staring straight at Lan Qiren – to start talking. “I have reason to believe that Nie Mingjue has been poisoned with spiritual poison.”

Wei Wuxian nearly spilled the tea, but managed to stop himself in time. “Chifeng-zun? Impossible!” Then he frowned. “I’d heard his temper was getting far worse, of late. Just mentions of it in passing…you think it’s because of that?”

“It may be. The Nie sect is prone to encountering qi deviations; a spiritual poison, especially one that specifically targets choleric feelings such as irritation and rage, would be particularly insidious when aimed against them. Should he die, everyone might be inclined to assume that the cause was hereditary rather than external.”

“A perfect murder. What type of poison?” Wei Wuxian’s eyebrows went up. “Wait – you think – musical poison?”

“My sect is renowned for using musical cultivation as healing techniques,” Lan Qiren pointed out, not sure why it seemed to come as such a shock to Wei Wuxian. “Antidotes grow alongside poisons, and all that can heal can also hurt – anyway, isn’t what you do a type of musical cultivation as well?”

“Good point,” Wei Wuxian said ruefully. “All right, that makes sense. That definitely seems like a real problem…but why do you need my help?”

“My health is poor, and I do not know what such an investigation will require,” Lan Qiren said. “And I cannot ask anyone in my sect to assist me.”

“Why not?”

“Because the primary suspect,” Lan Qiren said heavily, “is Xichen.”

Wei Wuxian stared.

“I’m sorry,” he said after a few long moments of blank gawping. “Please forgive me, honored teacher, but I think I misheard you. Are you saying that you think Zewu-jun is poisoning Chifeng-zun?”

“I hope dearly that he is not, of course,” Lan Qiren said. “In fact, part of the reason for my desire to investigate privately is to assist in clearing him of suspicion –”

“No, no, hold on, don’t move on just yet,” Wei Wuxian said, holding up his hands. “You think Zewu-jun – Lan Xichen! – might be capable of poisoning his sworn brother and, as far as I know, best friend? Your nephew?”

“Yes.”

“You really think he’s capable of something like that?”

“I have done my best to raise him to be the sort of man who would not be,” Lan Qiren said, and thought suddenly of his own brother – their father had treasured him, cared for him, valued him above all else. Would he have ever imagined that he would do what he had done and end up living out his life in seclusion, only to die pointlessly at the hands of the Wen sect? “And yet, who’s to say?”

“Uh, me? All the cultivation world? It’s Zewu-jun! He’s one of the most upright people I’ve ever met! You might as well suspect Lan Zhan – you don’t, do you?”

“No,” Lan Qiren said. He appreciated the righteous crescendo in Wei Wuxian’s voice, particularly when Lan Wangji was mentioned – unfortunate as it might be to find that Lan Wangji’s seemingly hopeless affection might actually be requited, since it remained a terrible idea – but it was a little inconvenient at the moment. “But equally I cannot burden him with the duty to suspect his brother. It would only hurt him.”

Wei Wuxian quieted down at that. “I can see that,” he said, grimacing. “But…why would you suspect Zewu-jun?”

“The evidence is – suggestive.” Lan Qiren shook his head. “To be clear, while I will of course value the truth above all else, I am not looking for evidence of Lan Xichen’s guilt. I am hoping to exculpate him.”

Wei Wuxian leaned forward, now frowning in earnest. “All right,” he said. “I still don’t really believe it, but other people might, and that’s bad enough. Even unfounded rumors can make for real trouble. Tell me what you know about it.”

“My nephew has been helping Nie Mingjue to ease the symptoms of his familial tendency towards qi deviations by playing him one of the strongest and most secret Lan sect healing songs,” Lan Qiren explained. “The spiritual poison I have observed in Nie Mingjue’s body is precisely a variation on that healing song – only instead of the pure version, which is designed to calm and heal disrupted qi, it is intermixed with another song that deliberately encourages spiritual turmoil.”

“All right. I suppose playing for Chifeng-zun gives Zewu-jun opportunity, but that doesn’t mean he’s the only one who could’ve applied the poison song.”

“The Song of Turmoil is a rare import, hidden away in one of sect’s forbidden books. Only very few people have access to that part of our collection.”

Wei Wuxian arched his eyebrows. “And yet you can immediately recognize it?”

“I enjoy studying obscure musical texts as an aid in composition,” Lan Qiren said, mild censure in his voice. “Would you dare claim you do not do the same?”

“…fine, fine, good point.” Wei Wuxian waved his hand. “Okay, fine…still, I’m not convinced. Even if the only source of the song is the Lan sect’s library, there was a lot of chaos these past few years. Someone else could have picked it up, couldn’t they?”

“It’s possible,” Lan Qiren admitted. “Unfortunately, the tune had the same starts and stops that are characteristic of Xichen’s playing.”

As a musical cultivator, even Wei Wuxian had to concede that the unique quirks of playing style were difficult, although not impossible, to replicate, and moreover that one would have to wonder why anyone else would bother doing so, especially in a spiritual poison they presumably hoped would go entirely undetected. He rubbed his forehead, clearly thinking it over. “So, wait, are you saying you heard this musical poison getting played? Were you affected by it? Why didn’t you interrupt in order to stop it or to find out who was responsible?”

Lan Qiren shook his head. “I did not hear the playing, only the effects.”

Wei Wuxian frowned. “I don’t understand. If you didn’t hear it get played, how do you know that the playing had Zewu-jun’s idiosyncratic characteristics?”

“I’m very familiar with how Xichen plays. How would I not notice it? Even if I only heard it intermixed with Nie Mingjue’s own base tone, the sound is distinctive enough to recognize.”

Wei Wuxian was staring at him, looking blank again. A moment later his brow furrowed as if he’d just had a thought that seemed strange to him. He said, “Honored teacher, a question. When I said I wasn’t the one who cast the curse on Jin Zixun, you said that the person who cast it played the guqin, not the flute. I’d been wondering…how did you know that?”

“The curse has the sound of a breaking guqin string, which does not accord with Jin Zixun’s own music,” Lan Qiren explained. “The person who cast it was moderately powerful and very well-trained, although this represents an overreach on their part. I think it is likely that they incurred a backlash due to the casting –”

“You just heard it?” Wei Wuxian interrupted. It was rather rude, but Lan Qiren supposed he’d signed up for that. “You just looked at him and heard the curse that had been placed on him?”

Lan Qiren nodded.

“You can hear what people’s spiritual energy sounds like?” Wei Wuxian was growing pale.

“Not spiritual energy directly,” Lan Qiren said, a little puzzled by what seemed like an outsized reaction. Not only was Wei Wuxian’s face pale, his fists clenched, but his song, normally so free and clear, had become suppressed, tense, tightly strung. “More in the nature of the sound of a person’s spirit itself. Your Ghost General, for instance; he has a very gentle melody, very soft, but the underlying base is harsh, jagged, thick with resentment, less playing than dying – he needs to learn to marry those two parts of his spirit together, or else he’ll have trouble finding peace. That’s why I offered to take him as a student.”

“What about me?” Wei Wuxian asked. He was almost vibrating with the need to know. “What about my music? Has it – changed?”

“It’s gotten a little more sober, which is not uncommon with tragedy,” Lan Qiren said, and felt as though he were on the edge of some terrible revelation. “But no, fundamentally you remain the same person you always were.”

Wei Wuxian exhaled, hard. A trill of relief.

“Something happened that made you think it would change,” Lan Qiren deduced, reaching up to stroke his beard thoughtfully. He watched as Wei Wuxian’s eyes flickered one way, then another. “Wei Wuxian.”

Wei Wuxian looked at him.

“Are you unwilling to return to orthodox cultivation – or unable?”

There was a world of difference between the two: one was arrogance, relentless and unrestrained, looking down at the truths the cultivators of the world and their ancestors had worked so hard to unearth, the other merely a depressing practicality – who wouldn’t choose to cultivate something if the alternative was nothing at all?

And yet…how could it be?

And why would Wei Wuxian be so terrified of letting others discover it?

“That’s none of your business,” Wei Wuxian said, teeth set in a bitter smile that was more of a grimace than anything else. “I agreed to help you, Honored Teacher, but my business is my own.”

“But –”

“Another question,” Wei Wuxian said. “Different subject: I know you don’t lie, and earlier you said…what you said. So tell me, what Lan sect girl has her heart so set on me that you decided to come tell me in person that I wasn’t allowed marry her?”

Lan Qiren blinked. “I only meant to advise you that it was a poor match for you both; it was not meant as an insult to you,” he objected, a little offended. “If you and Wangji insist, I will not stand in your way.”

He shook his head and sighed a little, regretful; he would not pursue the matter Wei Wuxian was hiding any further. He wanted to help, curiosity itching at him, but Wei Wuxian was right – it was none of his business.

“As long as your reliance on demonic cultivation does not impede your assistance in my investigation, I will not bring it up again,” he concluded. “How do you propose we begin?”

“…Lan Zhan?”

Lan Qiren frowned. “I already explained to you why I do not wish to involve Wangji, and that I do not suspect him. Why would we start with him?”

“Not for the investigation,” Wei Wuxian exclaimed, his face bright red. “About the – marriage!”

#mdzs #lan qiren #wei wuxian #jin guangshan #jin zixuan #jin guangyao #my fic #my fics #polyphonic

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