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llycaons · 1 year

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ig my 'unpopular opinion' (hate that term) is that lwj Should feel bad about how he treated wwx, and I'm glad he does, because that pushes him to grow as a character and make difference choices in the future. he should feel bad that he sided with the passive and corrupt clans instead of trusting wwx and being more proactive in protecting all those people. on the flipside jc's grief and misery surrounding wwx never seems to include regrets about what HE could have done differently, so he doesn't undergo any of that positive character growth, he just blames everyone around him and lashes out and sinks deeper into bitterness and contempt and fury. if he had thought about the consequences of his choices a little more, maybe he could have taken some responsibility for how it all went down too and like. acted differently when wwx returned.

but despite him going on about how family/clan is more important than anything, he doesn't even try to trust wwx, he just assumes the worst of him. and ik he's being manipulated and he's got trauma related to being abandoned, and wwx wasn't the most communicative about what was happening, but clearly he was trying to protect a group of innocent people and a child, so why couldn't jc extend to wwx an iota of good faith and like. back him up since this was clearly so important to him and also there are literal farmers and a toddler being threatened with murder? jc isn't to blame for wen chao or jgy or su she's actions, but he did have a certain amount of power in his role and he seemed determined not to use it. he publicly cut ties with wwx, allowing public sentiment to build against him, and he folded easily to demands that he kill wen ning despite having an actual argument against that. obviously being attached to the burial mounds community is politically disastrous, but lwj was speaking for wwx at the time too so it's not like jc was entirely alone. if he was a great political mind like I've seen people claim he was, he also could have curried favor with jzx through jyl's connection...idk it was important to wwx and I wish jc had been able to stand up for him or at least was capable of critically analyzing his own actions after the fact

#I mean ultimately jgs probably would have tried to fight back because he wanted wwx's power so ig jc was retroactively vindicated #bc even with the lans and jiangs fighting together (dubious) they probably would have lost #but jc still didn't handle it as well as he could have and more importantly he didn't take ANY lessons from it besides #'wwx evil and the cause for all my suffering and mom was right about him'#which considering they grew up together and were so close is such a disappointment #I think claiming jc is a terrible politician based on that mess is unfair bc that was an awful situation to be in #but I can't recall any time he actually did anything with his status besides bend to the demands of larger sect leaders #or rely on wwx or jyl to smooth over situations with other political figures. so he's hardly got anything going for him #(see: the marriage proposal and the time LP got guests)#postcanon he just seems...angry and violent #which doesn't necessarily mean he's a good or strong leader idk why people seem to think it does. we've seen him be harsh to his own people #he does give a good hearing to sisi and bicao but that just entails sitting there and listening to their story #which is like. idk. bare minimum?#look jc wasn't made to be a sect leader and that's fine. its a bs position #but he also didn't undergo any personal growth because he can't face the fact that he might have been wrong and I think that sucks #and since he didn't undergo any personal growth he's this toxic and violent and cruel emotional blackmailer postcanon #which rly fucking sucks for everyone around him including jl!#also where does he get off being mad at lwj and mocking him about wwx's death. lwj didn't do ANYTHING to him jc's just mad that #he survived that one time and he transferred blame about the LP attack onto him and. also lwj tried to save wwx #ofc lwj doesn't like him because of the attempted/actual murder thing #also I don't think lwj respects him at ALL which I get. I don't respect him either #shame bc like you two had a common goal! you could have worked together for it instead of holding each other in contempt!#cql txp

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jayktoralldaylong · 2 years

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Sorting MDZS characters into Hogwarts Houses Part 2.

Lan Qiren - Ravenclaw.

Madam Lan - Gryffindor. Especially since they say Wei Wuxian reminds Wangji of her.

Lan Wangji's dad - Ravenclaw.

Lan Sizhui - Gryffindor or Ravenclaw. I can't decide. Likely Ravenclaw.

Lan Jingyi - Ravenclaw.

Jin Ling - A very angry Hufflepuff.

OuYang Zizhen - Also a Hufflepuff.

Jiang Fengmian - Hufflepuff. He wants to be supportive but he's doing it all wrong.

Madam Yu - Slytherin. Hard core Slytherin.

Jin Zixun - ....... Slytherin.

Qi Su - She's so sweet. Um. Gryffindor. Considering she switched things up with Jin Guangyao really fast. Jin Guangyao clearly has a type.

Jin Guangshan - Sleaziest Slytherin to walk the earth.

Madam Jin - Gryffindor, with horrible taste in men.

Meng Shi - Hufflepuff with even worse taste in men.

Wen Chao - Slytherin.

Wen Rouhan - Slytherin.

Wen Xu - Slytherin.

Sisi - Slytherin.

Wen Zhuliu - Ravenclaw.

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khattikeri · 1 month

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drives me nuts when people treat jin guangyao or wei wuxian like they're socialist revolutionaries like no! they're not!! in fact their respective roles in society and complacency regarding its hierarchies is why ANY of the story even happens to begin with!!!

jin guangyao doesn't hold bitterness just because he was born lower class. he is bitter because others deride him and his prostitute mother in spite of both their intelligence, skills, and efforts to climb the ladder.

why do you think we were shown scenes of other prostitutes in the brothel deriding meng shi for being literate, for "trying" so hard? why do you think we were shown scenes of anxin taunting meng yao and throwing shit at him because he was trying to learn cultivation at his mother's behest?

why do you think jin guangyao arranged for the arson of that brothel, burned to the ground with everyone except sisi inside? that's not the behavior of someone who believes in true equality and the inherent worth of sex workers as human beings!

that's the behavior of someone who thinks he's better than them. the behavior of a man who already came up on top through political games and war crimes, backstabbing and spying for the sake of the "greater good".

i won't rehash his argument to nie mingjue that he didn't have a choice-- he had some choice, but no matter what he does his class will come up and people will always assume the worst and try to hurt him for it, which forces his hand to do whatever will protect him best (hence 'no choice').

jin guangyao did everything he could to secure his own safety and a place among those already higher up. and by that point, he'd won it.

the fact that the temple rebuilt on the brothel site is to guanyin, the goddess of mercy, is even more ironic! the fact that jin guangyao has the goddess's statue carved to look like his own mother is proof that he viewed both her and himself as higher than them. more worthy than them.

of course he cared about the general welfare of others (read: the watchtowers). but consider also that there is no watchtower near yi city, which ended up being one of xue yang's playgrounds. jin guangyao can and will turn a blind eye to certain sufferings if it is convenient to him.

sure, jin guangyao made undeniable contributions to cultivation society and accessibility, but he is not at any point trying to topple existing class structures. his adherence to them is in fact integral to his own downfall in the end.

it brings with it the inevitability of society conveniently ignoring his triumphs and genuine moments of humanity to deride him once more as an evil, disgusting son of a whore once his crimes come to light.

now for wei wuxian. he's the righteous protagonist of the story and he doesn't give a fuck what society thinks, yes, but he wasn't out there trying to cause an uprising so that all the poor servant classes and lower could become cultivators. he wasn't trying to redistribute wealth or insinuate that those who are lower deserve to be viewed as equal to the gentry.

the most critical and non-explicitly stated fact of mo dao zu shi is that wei wuxian has always been resigned to his position in the social hierarchy.

his unreliable narration, especially regarding his own past and thoughts, is so damn important. he doesn't EVER tell the reader directly that people treated him any which way at their leisure because of his parents' differing social classes.

no. instead we are shown how much prestige he is afforded as cangse-sanren's son-- reputation as a talented and charming young cultivator, made head disciple of Yunmeng Jiang-- and how little respect he is given in the same breath, as the son of servant wei changze.

the way he is treated by others is as fickle as the wind. if he obeys and does as told, there is no reward. of course he did that, that was the expectation to start with! if he does anything even slightly inconvenient, there is a punishment. of course he has no manners, what else would you expect from an ungrateful son of a servant?

wei wuxian's righteousness is not a matter of adhering to principles he was explicitly taught, the way nie mingjue values honor or the way jiang cheng always tries to prove himself. wei wuxian does the right thing regardless of what the consequences are to him because his good deeds are always downplayed and his bad deeds are always singled out, no matter who or how many people were doing it with him.

he has faced this double standard since childhood. there are points in the novel where it's clear that this sticks out to wei wuxian, but does he ever fight back against that view of himself? does he EVER, at any point in the story, explain his actions and choices to jianghu society and try to debate or appeal to their sense of reason?

no. because he knows, at his very core, that any explicit deviation from their interests whatsoever will be punished.

slaughtering thousands of people is fine when they want him to do it, and when the alternative is unjust torture, re-education camps, and encroachment upon other sects' lands.

slaughtering thousands of people who are trying to paint him as evil for not going along with their genocidal plans, however, is punished.

wei wuxian knows his acceptance among the higher classes is superficial and unsteady. from the age of 10, when jiang fengmian took him in, he knew subconsciously that he could be kicked out at any time.

he knows that cultivation society doesn't care about war crimes and concentration camps and mistreatment of the remaining wen survivors of the sunshot campaign. but the right thing to do now that they aren't at wartime is to help them, plus they'd punish him either way for it, so he will.

in this regard wei wuxian is more self-aware of his position than jin guangyao. he does care about common people and he does try his best to help them as an individual. even if that ends up with him disabled, arrested, targeted in sieges, or dead.

but is he revolutionary? in the full equality, fight the establishment, rewrite laws, change social structures and people's perceptions of class sense?

no. no. he isn't.

now my knowledge of chinese society and history is fairly limited to my hindu diaspora upbringing and our shared cultural similarities ... but speaking to what i absolutely know us true, adherence to one's social class is expected.

this is rigid. efforts and merits might bring you some level of mobility, but in the end, the circumstances of your birth will always be scrutinized first, and your behavior compared to the stereotypes of where and how you originate.

mdzs is not about revolution, and none of its characters are able to truly change its society. there is no grand "maybe cutsleeves aren't inherently bad" or "i'm sorry for persecuting you and believing hearsay, you were truly a good person all along!" at the finale.

people ignore history and repeat it again with the next batch of ugly gossip and rumors.

wei wuxian, lan wangji, and luo qingyang find peace only by distancing themselves from cultivation society and its opinions.

jin guangyao and wei wuxian both cannot ever escape from others' perception of their origins and actions. regardless of their personal beliefs, they are not revolutionaries.

#keri chats #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #long post #mdzs spoilers #wei wuxian #jin guangyao #mdzs meta #the untamed #cql #i know it's funny or fanon to call them commies but it's so deeply fucking important to me that ppl understand they CANONICALLY are NOT #AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH #this is messy and unedited and rather surface level but again if you read this post i love you lmao #wwx did the right thing in the xuanwu cave by helping mianmian and fighting back against wen chao BUT he was punished for it #through wang lingjiao's visit insisting he be whipped for it + the fall of lotus pier #like if wwx'll be punished either way ofc he'll do the righteous thing. but he is undeniably resigned to the fact that they won't change #wwx doesnt TRY to change THEM. he just does what he wants & believes is right himself #big difference & while jgy is often easy to clear up i still see so many people say that wwx is different and im like. YES but also GOD NO

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lansplaining · 9 months

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Sorry, but I've a question. I was reading meta about how in the untamed wwx is someone who shows great social and diplomatic skills and I don't want to watch the drama (too long) and was wandering if in the drama he is good like that? I don't think in the book he is great as he thinks even if he is trying his best (also they were painting jc as a blunt instrument in their meta - is really like that drama jc? Novel jc knows how to read a room)

i am an unabashed drama fan so i really do think it's worth a watch, but that is not the point

but uh

no.

i think he can seem that way because xiao zhan is a wildly charismatic person who just radiates sweetness and charm, but no, even in the show, wei wuxian has never met a social situation he couldn't make worse. this is in fact so key to wwx's arc, and it's so frustrating that people miss it! when he was young and had a golden core, he could get away with being a little shit because he was talented. and then he could get away with it because people were scared of him! but he never actually had to learn real diplomatic and social skills, and even as mo xuanyo, skates by on a cheeky charm that is very love it or hate it for the people he encounters, with no real ability to course correct if someone finds him grating

as for jiang cheng-- this complete fanon overhaul of jiang cheng's personality and diplomatic skills drives me crazy. in the drama even MORE than in the novel, we see pre-timeskip jiang cheng being extremely deliberate and diplomatic. he is polite, cautious, and respectful. we have multiple scenes of him very carefully standing up to clan leaders who are much more powerful than him and handling it subtly and extremely well-- though admittedly, he doesn't really "win" any of the encounters. yes, he's grumpy to wei wuxian in the cloud recesses arc, but it is so so so clear that is not remotely the way he behaves with other people, especially people who are his elders or superiors.

now, post-timeskip, things are understandably different. he's operating from a position of great power, and has clearly shifted tactics to be a lot more blunt and to assert his authority in a more blunt way. but we have absolutely no reason to think he isn't capable of shifting his tactics as needed, and i think we very much see that in the scene with sisi and bicao, and the delicacy with which he handles both them and that whole situation.

#ask answered

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wangxianficfinder · 9 months

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Fic Finder

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1. Hello, I need help finding a story. I think it's not on AO3 but on Tumblr.

In the story, Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji are engaged since childhood, but LWJ is not thrilled with the idea to the point that he goes to war to escape the wedding. However, WWX goes with him to protect him. In the end, in an attempt to kill Wen Ruohan, LWJ makes a strike that would kill both Wen Ruohan and himself, but WWX jumps in front of the sword and gets seriously injured. I don't remember anything else, except that the last words WWX says are that he wants LWJ to marry for love, to which LWJ replies, "Then you must live."

Please help me find it. Thank you so much.

FOUND? rebuttable presumption masterpost by sarah-yyy

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2. Hello! I’m looking for a fic that was on ao3 where WWX and LWJ were both wolf shifters. I think there was a mating run in the beginning and LWJ ended up rejecting WWX and he fell very ill as a result. They eventually moved past it but they didn’t get together until one day JGS I think it was drugged WWX and he was sent into heat. LWJ ended up protecting him and guarding his door throughout his heat. They did end up together in the end. @bigmeatycl0ws

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3. Hey! Can you help me find this fic?

A Canon divergence where wei ying had a son with lan zhan ( that he didn't know about) and a yuan ,where they grew up with a commoner away from the cultivation world after wwx death? ( they were friends with jin ling tho)

Lan wangji didn't know they survived?

I remember they helped the juniors escape the burial mounds after they were kidnapped. @karinasnowwwx

FOUND? Lost children by EonaSPN (T, 42k, WangXian, Canonical Character Death, Canon-Typical Violence, Time Skips, Post Mpreg, Wangxian child, LWJ doesn't find A-Yuan, Canon Divergence, POV Alternating, Secret Child, A/B/O Dynamics)

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4. hi hi hehe hope you're doing well 🫶i am looking for this fic which is set in space i think and the plot was wwx ship got lost (?) and then when they found it the people(wwx was with the wens) were in a healing pod but one of the pods was empty ... it had a-yuan who is wangxian's biological son and there was a shadow i think that follows ayuanthank you very muc!!!!

FOUND? Per aspera ad astra by Sanguis (E, 17k, wangxian, fantasy au, Implied Mpreg, Science Fiction/Fantasy, Space Opera, Secret Marriage, Kidnapping, Explicit Sex, Sexual Frustration, Dubious Anatomy, Male Lactation)

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5. Btw there's a fic that I forgot the title of. Basically Wei parents survived from the night hunt and seek Lotus Pier for help. They raised Wei baby there and I think Madame Jin, Madame Yu, and Wei mama did sisterhood vows? Wei dad found his siblings one being Sisi and the other being a Nie wife. Yao's mom was rescued from the brothel too and there's a whole chapter about it. I don't remember much but I remember it being so long and oooh Baby Wangji and Wei baby meeting as kids! Thank you!

FOUND? Building a home by R95irth (T, 586k, CSSR/WCZ, JFM/YZY, WangXian, ChengQing, XuanLi, 3zun, BSSR/LY, MS/SS, Canon Divergence, Time Travel Fix-It, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, Angst with a Happy Ending, Horror, Nightmares, Family Fluff, Found Family)

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6. Hi there! I hope you're doing well! I have a fic I'm looking for and it's driving me a bit crazy. Wangxian is the main pairing but what I remember about it the most is that Nie Mingjue basically adopted him? He did live with the Jiangs for a bit I think but there was a big falling out so he was kicked out and since he and Huaisang are friends, NMJ took him in and was very protective of him. I believe the fic was in modern au. I'm sorry I can't provide more info and I hope you can help, thank you!

FOUND? Come Around and Stay by trippednfell (M, 160k, wangxian, modern, slow burn, kid fic, found family, it gets worse before it gets better, PTSD, blood and injury, dissociation, trauma, angst w happy ending, musicals, alternating pov, JC & WWX reconciliation, hurt/comfort, panic attacks) If OP is looking for a fic where WWX was a IT genius and collaborated wit Nie gege's security company then this is the fic :)) / Lwj is a trauma surgeon and wwx is an IT genius who moonlights as a music teacher.

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7. i’m looking for a fic where wei ying hasn’t seen lan zhan in YEARS and lan zhan and his brother are some kind of celebrity (they’re on smth like the great british bake off) and lz gets into an accident which reunites them, and around the end wwx finds out that lsz is a-yuan. i think wwx was a doctor before the separation but i can’t be sure, it was modern au. thank you !!! @willesnelson

FOUND? Lifelong Confidant by saved (E, 42k, WangXian, Modern AU, Fluff and Angst, Past Character Death, Families of Choice, Explicit Sexual Content, Idiots in Love, Misunderstandings, Oblivious WWX, references to past alcoholism/substance abuse, Alcohol) I feel confident it's this one

but this one has some similar vibes: SIMILAR! plant a little happiness (let the roots run deep) by fleurdeliser (E, 47k, WangXian, Modern AU, Car Accidents, Implied/Referenced Alcohol Abuse/Alcoholism, Non-Explicit References to Injuries and Death, References to Addiction, Doctors & Physicians, Falling In Love, soft romance, background 3zun)

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8. Heya! So, I’m trying to find this fic that I forgot to save the link to, but all can clearly I remember is WWX needing to wear a silver mask due to some prophecy or curse and having an arranged marriage with LWJ. WQ might’ve become a concubine at some point and I think that development lead to WWX moving from Gusu to Yiling and the Lans were very much not happy about it.

I’ve looked high and low for it and I’m really worried it got deleted. (if it was, do you know anybody with a copy? Because if I’ve lost another fic to the void I’m gonna cry)

FOUND? imstillthinkingaboutithmm: #8 is a price to pay by wangxianist, its deletez from ao3. I have a copy and if you want it feel free to dm me.

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9. Hi!!! I am looking for a fic I found recently. In it, ayuan is a a child of single parent wei wuxian and damages the car of lan wangji accidently, and so wei wuxain have to pay for the damage. lan wangji says the cost will be in 5 figures and offeres to give wei wuxian a job. so wei wuxian is paid for being a sub to lan wangji. there's a line in the fic which is said by lann wangji that he has a high sex drive. Also, this is a wip fic. Sound familiar to anyone??

FOUND? The Damage You Do by stiricide (E, 94k, wangxian, modern, mob au, Dom/sub, Dark LWJ, Possessive LWJ, Compulsory Heterosexuality, Sex Worker WWX, Sugar Baby WWX, WWX Adopts LSZ, dub con, due to wwx feelings forced into being a sex worker by circumastances, Mobster LWJ, Sounding, Fisting, Object Insertion, Objectification, Sex Toys, Deep Anal Play, Enemas, Praise Kink, degradation kink, Size Kink, Bondage, Orgasm Delay/Denial, Semi-Public Sex, Office Sex, Sensory Deprivation, Consensual Non-Consent, Panic Attacks, Angst with a Happy Ending, warnings/notes on each chapter, bad bdsm etiquette that eventually becomes good etiquette, BDSM, Rough Sex, WWX Has ADHD, Cock Warming, Small Penis, Implied/Referenced Drug Addiction, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Face-Fucking, Blindfolds, Phone Sex, Rimming, Exhibitionism, Rape Fantasy)

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10. Hi! :D

I’m looking for a fic in which wwx thought lwj was in love with one of his siblings, I can’t remember if it was jyl or jc sorry. I can’t remember either of it was modern or canon era but it wasn’t too far from canon (like it wasn’t ABO or Royalty or Fantasy or some other kind of super alternative universe. If it was an AU it might’ve been a college or high school one but I doubt it since I usually don’t read too many AUs) My best bet is it was in the cloud recesses study arc but then again, I read it a long time ago and can’t remember much.

Sorry if it’s too vague, and thank you!

FOUND? Orchids in Lotus Pier by Vamillepudding (G, 21k, wangxian, canon divergence, romantic comedy, pining, protective JC, friends to lovers, misunderstandings)

FOUND? ❤️ For Both Of Us (And Time Is But A Paper Moon) by sami (E, 65k, WangXian, Time Travel, Some People Live/Not Everyone Dies, Fix-It, Hurt/Comfort, Healing, Yunmeng Shuangjie, Canon Divergence, Asexual JC, First Time, Getting Together, BAMF JC, BAMF LWJ)

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11. Hello!! I'm looking for an abo fic where o!wwx is married to a!lwj, but it was madam yu trying to get rid of wwx, they didn't have feelings for each other yet. lwj is a bit of a dick to wwx along with the rest of the lan sect (except lxc), wwx is trying to make things work, but later he gives up on having a decent marriage, but then lwj realizes that he's actually amazing and really wants to be his husband please.

There's a scene where lxc helps wwx get an audience with the lan clan elders to defeat the waterborne abyss with his luring talisman, which is where lwj falls hard. I also remember wwx being forbidden from interacting with the younger disciples, and wangxian getting into a big fight over having kids.

I would really appreciate if you could find it, thanks so much for your hard work <3 @vellialavellious

FOUND? Concord by Deastar (T, 41k, WangXian, Arranged Marriage, Gūsū Lán Sect Rules, Depression, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending) Lwj and wwx have an arranged marriage where wwx slowly slips further and further into depression as the lans won't let him do anything or associate with anyone. Angst happy ending though!

FOUND? To Bring You Back Within My Reach by ablaiseofglory (M, 20k, wangxian, WIP, Arranged Marriage, Angst with a Happy Ending, No dubious consent, Adopted Children, Kid Fic, A/B/O Dynamics, omega wwx, Alpha LWJ, Misunderstandings)

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12. looking for a fic that has this scene: lwj drives wwx home with his car. both of them are in... a fraught dynamic? i dont remember the context, but i do remember them not being in the best of relationship (as in, theyre not... getting along well? i dont think they were in a romantic relationship at that time). when the car arrives at wwx's home (i remember the car being parked at a... field (?) so maybe it was an apartment of some sorts?), wwx left the car in anger or disappointment or similarly negative mood, with lwj pretending he doesnt care. after wwx left, lwj cries hard, the hardest he ever cried in his life. then wwx came back to the car because he left his phone, and saw lwj crying, and realized that lwj was only pretending to be okay. iirc their relationship improves after this, but i dont remember if i remember correctly

FOUND! The Flowers Of Autumn by notinamillionyears (E, 65k, WangXian, Loss of Parent(s), Trauma, Modern AU, Mutual Pining, Hurt/Comfort, Angst with a Happy Ending, CEO, Art, Museums, Misunderstandings, Past Relationship(s), Explicit Sexual Content, Masturbation, Anal Sex, Anal Fingering, Hand Jobs, Self-Worth Issues, Oral Sex, Moscow, Loneliness, Anxiety, Poetry, Insomnia, Dom/sub Undertones, Power Dynamics, Light BDSM, discussion of consent, Delusions, Mental Health Issues, Character Study)

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13. hii!!! for fic finders, i’m looking for a short fic that was basically jyl looking at wwx and lwj getting married and her basically becoming jealous that he got the life she wanted. that’s all I remember of it, ty if you can find it!! :D

hii!! i’m the asker from the recent fic finder, #13, and i don’t think that was the fic i was looking for unfortunately!! it was not in a series, really short one-shot- like around 700 words- and it was just jyl thoughts. thanks in advanced!! :)

Not FOUND After the conference by Ilona22 (E, 2k, wangxian, ABO, not JC friendly, intersex omegas, PWP sort of)

FOUND? Jealousy by Marinelifeclub (G, 816, WangXian, No Golden Core Transfer, Dark Jiang Siblings)

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14. Hello can you help me find a fic where Wei ying and lan wangji plays an online game . I don't really remember the name but lan wangji goes by hanguangjun in the game and they are actually in the same college or something like that and lan wangji knows that they play online game together but wei ying don't and yes Lan wangji worked at library and wei ying frequented the library. Thank you @sineofu

FOUND? Duo With You by Nyatci (T, 24k, wangxian, modern, college/university au, Gamers, Casual Gaming, enemies to lovers, Secret Identity, league of legends, Crack but treated very seriously, Implied/Referenced Homophobia, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Comedy, Angst w happy ending, Hurt/Comfort, Abusive Jiāng Family, WIP)

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15. hi. i'm not sure if this the right way to ask. pardon me if i do. i'm searching for a fic where lan zhan is a mob boss and wei ying is his bf. they are childhood friend but wy left when they argued and lz asked wy to go as he wants to protect him. but he went off radar and lz went crazy. they met in a gala that huisang? organize and lz asked wy to come back to him. the last chapter i think wy install a chip in himself so it's easier for lz to find him. it's a gift for lz birthday. thanks!! :) @aishiteru-amie

FOUND? So Full Of Love (Wouldn't Know Where to Start) by witchupbitch (M, 59k, WIP, WangXian, Best Friends, Friends to Lovers, Fluff, Eventual Romance, Eventual Sex, Possessive LWJ, Protective LWJ, Blood and Violence, Idiots in Love, Humor, Mafia AU, Modern AU, Flirting, shameless WWX, Confident WWX, Explicit Language, Mutual Sexual Tension, dark LWJ, Dark WWX, Exhibitionism Sex, Possessive Behavior, Unhealthy Relationships, Twisted and Fluffy Feelings)

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16. I'm looking for a fic I read a while ago that involved WWX somehow getting erased from existence in exchange for a better world with everyone he cares about alive or something similar. What I know is that he meets LWJ again and LWJ falls in love with him and WWX parents are alive and eventually figure out who he is. There's a scene in Cloud Recesses at dinner where Wei Changze asks if LWJ will marry WWX and he says no (probably because of his parents awful marriage) and WWX is heartbroken.

FOUND! This is Elisa's thread fic. Super popular Shrek Au. Hehe

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17. Hi! I'm trying to find a fic in which Lwj dies during his punishment. The discipline handling the whip is thrown out of the sect for having killed Hgj. The disciple feels so guilty for killing Lwj that 13 years later, he uses the body sacrifice array to bring Lwj back. Wwx is alive on this one, and if I remember it right, he created the YillingWei sect. Wwx absolutely hates the Lan sect for killing Lwj.

FOUND? Restart from the End by EmBlu (IcyDeath) (G, 72k, wangxian, major character death, resurrection, role reversal, canon divergence, yiling wei sect au, angst, hurt/comfort, hurt LWJ, angry WWX, WIP)

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18. Hello! I am looking for a fic where Wei Wuxian becomes a god after his death. He is given a heavenly abode that he can shape as he pleases, and he shapes it like the docks at Lotus Pier. Wen Qing’s spirit becomes his secretary, and Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan’s spirits are his advisors. At the end there is a scene where the remaining human cultivators storm into his abode across a long bridge. I think eventually Lan Wangji ascends and they become a matched set of deities. Thank you!

FOUND? Of Destruction and Rebirth by demoniqt (M, 88k, wangxian, JYL/JZX, major character death, rape/non-con, underage, graphic depictions of violence, canon divergence,Slow Burn, Canonical Character Death, GodWWX, God & Goddesses au, BAMF WWX, Grieving LWJ, Angst, Hurt/Comfort, JC & WWX Reconciliation, Rabbits, Fix-It, Attempted Sexual Assault, Attempted Rape/Non-Con, Blood and Gore, Castration, Lots of it, repeatedly, Punishment, Hell)

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19. I’m looking for a fic, modern AU, where WWX is a Hannah Montana style idol. Only he was at the audition because JYL was supposed to be there but she got sick so he panicked and took her place. So he’s a female idol, & LWJ is starting to feel like WWX has gotten bored of him at school &lowkey panicking. HeTakesSolaceInHisNewFavorite idol (WWX)&dreamsOfGiving‘her’FootRubs He gets to meet ‘her’ only while he does WWX’s skirt gets flipped. WWX uses his real voice to whisper Lan Zhan in his ear. @any-mouse

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20. It's MDZS/The Untamed. It's alternate universe. During the part of Canon where jiang Cheng strangles Wei Wuxian he's found by someone else. It's the one where he ends up with the Wen and they decide to leave the war. They find an abandoned village and take Wei Wuxian with them. I believe he loses his memory of the event and it has some permanent or semi-permanent side-effects to his health?

One of the Wen elders pretends to be a lost Wei relative when they take him back to the Nie compound with A-Yuan due to concerns about the weather/winter and whether they can survive it in their small village? They also deliver a letter or explain what happened to cause his state and that he doesn't remember?

I've found these ones and it's not the one where he ends up at the riverside village or with the Lan early or with the Wen and then declared a traitor by Jiang Cheng. He does end up with the Wen in this one, but no one learns that they’re the Dafan Wen if I remember correctly and he's not declared a traitor. Any help would be appreciated. @saharrashadow

FOUND? Go Hiking With a Blindfold On by Hauntcats (Not rated, 12k, wangxian, JC & WWX, WQ & WWX, time travel fix-it, not JC friendly, no golden core transfer) Apart from happening just prior to the core surgery rather than Lotus Pier's fall, everything else seems present.

~*~

#wangxian #mdzs #wangxian fic finder #wangxian fic search #the untamed #wangxianficfinder #long post

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hamliet · 6 months

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while i was rereading the grandmaster of demonic cultivation again its about the two woman that came to lotus pear sisi and bi cao, there was something its about the reaction the cultivators had about there stories I was thinking what these two woman represent?

Hi! I've written a meta on Sisi before--she's one of the most important minor characters, I think.

I think her pairing with Bicao exists to make the reader ponder their own questions about what righteousness means and what justice is. After all, Sisi is a prostitute who openly admits to sleeping with married men, is coerced into assaulting someone to death, and is physically scarred. On the surface, she seems like someone society will and does indeed condemn.

But Sisi is the bravest, most righteous character in the entire story. She is not ashamed of what society and life have done to her; it's not like she had a choice in any of the above, after all, and while it's convenient to blame her, she had literally not a shred of freedom her entire life. At least not from whenever she entered the brothel, and we know from Jin Guangyao's comments about Meng Shi that the women there weren't there out of their own free will.

And yet, Sisi comes forward knowing people will condemn her purely to get justice for the other prostitutes who were coerced into this and then murdered. They were the ones not even brothels wanted anymore--too old, too sick, too ugly. The ones every last bit of society threw away, and she came to face scorn solely to get justice for them. She directly says this.

In contrast, Bicao came forward for money.

Now, that's not inherently a bad thing. Bicao is a servant. She's part of society, unlike Sisi, but she's not well respected or anything like that. However, Bicao knew about Qin Su's mother being raped by Jin Guangshan, knew about the Jins being siblings, and said nothing--fair enough. There's nothing wrong with wanting to survive. Where we do get into dubious moral territory is when she directly goes to Qin Su and gives her the letter.

Wei Wuxian himself notes that Qin Su had to have immense trust in Bicao to instantly believe its contents. She emphatically states that Bicao would never lie to her.

But Bicao also knew the likely outcome of her revealing this to Qin Su--that it endangered her, that she would probably be suicidal if not in danger from her husband, and Wei Wuxian directly says this as well. Bicao handed the letter to Qin Su for money knowing it would mean her misery, ostracization from society at best, and death at worst.

Bicao's not a blood relative of Qin Su, of course, and there's a tendency to be like "oh, she's a servant, she owed her nothing." To a degree, sure, but also to another degree we're absolutely supposed to compare and contrast Bicao's treatment of Qin Su with Wei Wuxian's treatment of the Jiang family, and with of course Sisi's treatment of her sisters in the brothels (which we know was always the case from how she protected Meng Shi). Wei Wuxian was derided for his disrespect of the family that took him in despite being the son of a servant, yet gave literally everything, even his golden core, to try to help the Jiangs.

We're also supposed to compare and contrast Bicao and Sisi, both of whom reveal information damning the child they once protected. Bicao did it for money and was aware of what she was doing. Sisi did it for justice and, as far as we know, was not aware that Jin Guangyao was Meng Yao.

This itself of course leads to questioning Nie Huaisang's quest for justice and whether his justice is the same flavor as Sisi's. He freed her because she served his purpose, not out of any desire to free her because she is a human being who doesn't deserve to be locked up forever. He paid Bicao to sacrifice Qin Su, who was completely innocent. Yes, he couldn't have known everything that came from his actions but he definitely knew the likely possibilities (again, Wei Wuxian explicitly says this).

These comparisons invite us to question justice and its link to power, to society, to what we owe one another, and to what it means to be righteous. These are good thematic comparisons wherein the point isn't even "Sisi good" and "Bicao bad" (which can be true even while acknowledging that Sisi is framed much more positively) but instead a multilayered approach designed to provoke questions rather than simple answers.

#ask hamliet #mdzs #mdzs meta #sisi #bicao #nie huaisang #jin gaungyao #wei wuxian #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #mo dao zu shi

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rosethornewrites · 23 days

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Fic: and sings the tune without the words, ch. 11

Additional Tags: Epistolary, Food, Music, Secrets, Resentful Energy, Cultivation Sect Politics, Character Death, Politics, Assassination Attempt(s), Attempted Kidnapping, Hostage Situations, Mentioned Wei Changze,

Summary: Nie Mingjue reports again to Lan Xichen about the continued discussion conference.

Notes: See end.

Previous fic in the series: “the thing with feathers”

Chapters: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10

AO3 link

——————

Xichen,

Jiang-zongzhu moves quickly. As soon as Wen Qing was finished with her testimony, he had Yu-furen and a group of seniors travel to Dafan. Her family had been informed, and had packed their belongings, the majority of which will be moved via cart and horse, accompanied by senior Jiang disciples, but A-Die and Lan-xiansheng also sent seniors to help, and the children, elderly, and several pregnant women were evacuated by sword so as to shield them from the perils of travel. Jin Guangshan offered senior disciples as well, but his offer was not accepted given the current situation.

A man was caught in the family area of Lotus Cove, having taken a woman named Sisi hostage as she was delivering the midday meal to us, but she wears a stiletto in her hair and it wound up in the man’s chest. He was dressed in nondescript clothing, but an examination of the body revealed his affiliation with the Jin, so Jin Guangshan is on very thin ice, though he of course denied all knowledge.

The children saw the body, with the struggle having taken place just outside the area we’re confined to, and the woman was shaken and bruised. I had drawn Baxia, but the man fell before I could act. A-Die is livid with the Jin, especially since A-Sang and I could have been in danger. Jin Guangshan even tried to say this was proof Jiang-zongzhu should turn over the two women and their children as he has demanded, claiming he failed to protect them. Then Jiang-zongzhu revealed the evidence that the assailant was Jin.

So now the discussion conference is even more fraught. Jin-zongzhu hasn’t been ordered to leave Lotus Pier yet, but it seems like he could be if anything further occurs.

On the other hand, the evacuation of the children and elders of Dafan Wen went off without a hitch. Now there’s a popo who stays in the family area with us during the day, who minds the younger children while the older ones are housed in a disciple pavilion. Now that he has his jiejie and the other Wen children around, Wen Ning has calmed down. Jiang Lian is thrilled to have new playmates, as well. Wen Qing has spent much of her time since her testimony resting, and she often has a gaggle of toddlers napping around her.

The idea that the Jiang “take in strays” sounds like someone who does not value a healthy populace, snakes that want to swallow elephants. I admire the Jiang sect in their willingness to look beyond bloodline at the mettle of a person rather than their circumstances. Meng Yao and his mother are two such examples, and no doubt they will do better under the protection of the Jiang clan. His mother’s pupils are street children and former prostitutes learning to read so they may find better lives.

I’m only glad A-Die takes us back to the assigned Nie quarters each evening, and I wonder how Wangji is able to handle as well as he has. Sometimes the children are quite loud, but he simply sits beside Jiang Wuxian and seems unbothered. They’ll just sit next to each other, Wangji reading and Jiang Wuxian talking with A-Sang or one of his siblings or engaged in painting or some other such activity—though your brother always makes sure he is between them and any egress. Sometimes Jiang Wuxian will join them, and Wangji watches or follows. I’ve even seen him roll a ball with a toddler. A-Sang has been vocal about how he was always snubbed in their childhood but now he plays with random babies. He forgets the biting phase, but that was more a game for Wangji than anyone else.

The different Wen faction representatives have stopped demanding Jiang Wuxian be punished, according to the servants, after Wen Qing’s testimony revealed his depravity. Suddenly it has become more likely that he was hurting the boy and whatever curse that was placed on him killed him in the backlash. Of course, that could be a ploy to lower our guards.

Plus the body of one of the representatives who had been insistent that Jiang Wuxian be turned over to the Wen was found in the river, apparently from foul play. The man had been defending Wen Ruohan and denouncing Wen Qing as a liar, in addition to being quite rude to the other Wen factions, so it’s not exactly surprising, but it’s just a relief to no longer hear that some idiot is calling for a kid’s blood.

There are hints that the conference may end soon, rumors that the representative was assassinated and that worse is occurring in Qishan. Hopefully it won’t spill over—Qinghe is too close to Qishan for comfort.

Your brother is fine—happy, in fact, that Jiang-zongzhu has decided Jiang Wuxian will return to the Cloud Recesses with him to winter there for his own safety. I believe Jiang-zongzhu hopes by the time winter is over, Qishan will be too distracted by in-fighting to even think about the boy.

Truly, his attachment to Jiang Wuxian is close, and he is more engaged with people than he has ever been, and I suspect that’s due to their relationship. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if their betrothal leads to a happy marriage—they already seem to move in tandem. It’s odd, but very interesting to watch. A-Sang keeps sighing about yuanfen and love matches, even.

A-Die intends to accompany the Lan, I think to ensure they aren’t attacked. Strength in numbers and all, so I will get to visit you after all.

Do not worry. I will help protect your brother and his betrothed until they are safely home.

Mingjue

—————

Mingjue,

I very much appreciate the continued updates, though the news of the attempt to get into the Lotus Cove family area is concerning—even if it doesn’t seem to have been targeting Jiang Wuxian. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the Wen factions would try for Wen Qing, so I’m glad your father and Shufu sent extra disciples to protect her family as they relocate to Yunmeng.

I hope Mo-guniang and Meng-ayi are holding up well, under the circumstances, and that Meng Yao stays safe. I’m certain he’s quite worried about his mother, but he seemed to really care for his young half-brother, as well. You said in your previous letter that you’d had some good conversations with him, and I hope you’ve had more—he could use friends in other sects, especially given current events. I hope he writes at some point as well, if he’s interested; perhaps I should write to him first so he is more comfortable.

Jiang-zongzhu’s decision to evacuate the children and elderly via sword while the stronger members of the Dafan Wen community handle the more difficult part of the relocation is wise. Honestly, that Jin-zongzhu would offer his disciples for such a mission, after having just been linked to an attempt to get access to the family area by taking a hostage, is shockingly brazen in its arrogance. That sort of treatment of another major sect is reminiscent of Wen Ruohan, and a perceived power vacuum presumably left by Qishan Wen could lead to issues in the future.

While I was at Lotus Pier, I read a treatise in the Jiang library about how the loss of a large clan can lead to a fight among remaining large clans seeking to fill the void and become more powerful, based on the historical downfall of the Xue clan. I don’t recall the title, but if you ask Jiang Wuxian about it, I’m sure he can send a servant to fetch it, as I’m sure you would enjoy reading it. Wei Changze, his birth father, wrote it—apparently he was a historian of sorts. Jiang Wuxian was thrilled when I showed it to him. I didn’t have the opportunity to see if there were more documents by him, but the servants could look and bring them to you, I’m sure.

The death of the Wen representative makes it clear a sort of schism is occurring within the Wen sect and may mean rumors as to the fate of Wen Ruohan’s sons are not so far-fetched. Hopefully, it will not spill over with the defection of Wen Qing, but I have no doubt our elders will have thought of that issue. But it seems more likely that her decision has saved her branch and will prevent her being seen as a threat by anyone who isn’t an ardent Wen Ruohan supporter. I too hope any strife doesn’t spill over into Qinghe, though at least your father has warning and can keep tabs on any of the smaller Nie-affiliated sects.

I am not surprised Wangji is handling the presence of others more easily—Jiang Wuxian’s influence, again. The time in Lotus Pier has in some ways helped him grow accustomed to it so he is not so overwhelmed. I wonder if the quiet of the Cloud Recesses might have similar impacts on other children, if perhaps visits to more bustling places might better prepare them for the world.

I suspect Huaisang has the right of it. Fate brings together those that are a thousand miles apart, and it occurred in this case. Wangji seems to find more satisfaction in life since he became close to Jiang Wuxian. Wangji also believes finding Jiang Wuxian again is yuanfen—he’s quite a bit more of a romantic than I expected. I think Shufu was worried, after Fuqin, but Wangji is his own person.

May your journey be safe and peaceful. I will be happy to see you, and for my brother and Jiang Wuxian to be safe in the Cloud Recesses soon. Hopefully there will be no more complications with the discussion conference.

Thank you for your protection,

Xichen

—————

Nie Mingjue uses a chengyu: “A man's greed is like a snake that wants to swallow an elephant.” Lan Xichen uses one: “Fate brings together those that are a thousand miles apart” and alludes to another: “With love, water is enough; without love, food doesn't satisfy.” At the end of his letter, he uses another: “journey safe and peaceful,” a quote from a Ming dynasty poet, Fan Yiyi.

#the untamed #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #wei wuxian #lan zhan #wei ying #lan wangji #lan xichen #nie mingjue #my fanfiction #mdzs fanfiction #mdzs fic #mdzs fanfic #cql fanfic #cql fic #cql fanfiction #untamed fanfic #untamed fic #untamed fanfiction

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poorlittleyaoyao · 6 months

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As a cql stan who readily admits to the show's flaws I'm feeling slightly outraged that cql fans are on here every day fighting for our lives to defend our favorite adaptation dumbest choices while the donghua put NAILS in qin su's head without a peep from anyone. Making JGY kill Sisi is honestly WAY fouler than all of the CQL villain upgrades combined! At least Su She in the bushes with the flute is much more reasonable and smaller scale than country wide watchtower arrays!! At least cql!wwx is a generally lovely person when having the culpability taken from him. donghua!wwx stood there and watched as wen ning weaponized jiang cheng's biggest fears and insecurities against him and didnt say a PEEP, and than ran off to go get dicked down without even checking on jin ling.

My toxic trait is that I love CQL the very most and cannot be swayed from this. Does it write itself into some weird-ass corners with its censorship-mandated changes and avoid uncomfortable, complex questions? For sure! Is it a hot mess at times, and would be even moreso without the novel lore to augment the gaps? Yes! Did Guanyin Temple need to be four episodes given that there wasn’t even a fierce corpse? Absolutely not!

But you see… I watched the show in its entirety (while also working fulltime and rehearsing a play) and it grabbed me by the brainstem and did not let go. The novel, meanwhile, largely bored and/or annoyed me (during a vacation where I had nothing else going on whatsoever) and I have zero desire to read more of it.

AND THEN THERE’S THE DONGHUA, which is evidently the Netflix Persuasion of MDZS media, and the best I can figure is that not enough people watched it to discourse about it, because I cannot beLIEVE that I’ve seen gifs of that 10-second Xiyao flashback montage circulated a billion times and NARY A MENTION OF THE TRANSMUTATION CIRCLE WATCHTOWER PROJECT.

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admirableadmiranda · 1 year

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I tried to look through your Tumblr to see if you'd answer this but couldn't find it. I wanted to inquire if BFF WWX & NHS are purely fanon? I know they are friendly during the study arc but was it, 'write to me, we can't lose touch' friendly or 'we see each other every day' classmates friendly.

Either way, I do think they would have been friends if the war didn't happen but I think it would have been secret. Mostly because I think Madam Yu and JC wouldn't like him being chummy with his betters.

Also, did he actually manipulate MXY into sacrificing himself or was MXY just tired and saw it as a way out and a middle finger to his tormenters?

Thanks for your thoughts. I hope you are doing well 😊💞

Hi. Thanks for your patience once again.

Sadly, it was the latter. They were buddies for the extent of the study group and after that in the book, they are never mentioned to communicate again till Wei Wuxian returns from the dead, and even then it's pretty clear that it was a more distant relationship. Wei Wuxian knew him well when they were teenagers, but any actual relationship is all in the past. (Much of this likely comes from CQL where they are actual friends and connect several times in scenes that simply do not exist in the book and people then adding it into their novel based stuff)

It is possible that they could have been friends in a non-war world, depending on how much effort Nie Huaisang was able to put into it. As you say, Madam Yu and Jiang Cheng probably would have not been all that open to the idea, no matter what sort of connection it is, as Jiang Cheng easily gets jealous of anyone who can pull Wei Wuxian's attention from Lotus Pier and Madam Yu is Madam Yu. But Wei Wuxian does require some input from the other side too. As funny as it may be to joke about him doing all the work to make friends, the truth of things is that he needs reciprocation to keep making those overtures. Even he and Lan Wangji struggle till he starts getting something back. If Nie Huaisang isn't putting forth his own effort, it will still fizzle and die.

So I don't really go in for sad boy Mo Xuanyu theory at all, I think that most of Nie Huaisang's influence in this situation would have been when and who. But what we get out of the mess of scribbled notes and the fact that he memorized this ritual back in Jinlintai before he was sent home is that he was a young man who was deeply embittered by the situation he was in and chose to strike back at his abusers even worse. He may have been sweet, but the fact that he memorized a sacrifice and revenge spell points to him having a dark streak even then.

Nie Huaisang's mastery and manipulations are in part finding those who are angry enough or good enough to do the work for him. He takes a very off hand approach to Jin Guangyao's downfall up until the end, letting others who he may not be able to handle or anticipate (Sisi, Bicao, Wei Wuxian himself as well as Lan Wangji taking a much more active approach in the matter) spin his web tighter till Jin Guangyao is already trapped and doomed. While no doubt Mo Xuanyu sacrificing himself to bring Wei Wuxian back into the game is a part of his plan, the amount of personal manipulation needed to bring someone who wouldn't already have had those wishes around to his point of view is a lot more than he's put into anyone else involved. It just doesn't fit with my understanding of the characters and schemes that he would do that. After all, their timing was in sync. That suggests a mutual plan to me.

#mdzs #nie huaisang #wei wuxian #mo xuanyu #asks

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joys-of-everyday · 9 months

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MXTX's women part 2

Let's do ✨discourse™✨part 2

This is a follow up to this post where the only conclusions I came to were vibes based... mainly because my opinions here are generally vibes based (except svsss - I am pretty firm on my view of svsss, but that's a separate post). I think there are strong arguments either way, and tbh I have nothing against vibes based conclusions, but for fun, I'm going to take a position and argue for it.

disclaimer: 1) this post is not my opinion. 2) nonetheless, this post is entirely unironic. I think these are compelling arguments.

Position 1: MDZS and TGCF are sexist.

To recap, I posed (dramatically, in bold face) that the most important question to ask are: What is the intent? How is that intent received? This can be summed up as: What is the message you take away?

Obviously, you can fight me here, but I'll expand. Firstly, the question doesn't fundamentally come down to what the work contains, even though this is important. Every statement on the lines of 'x is sexist because it contains y' has a counterexample. Is the Handmaid's Tale sexist because it contains men in power and women treated as objects? Well op, this is a dumb example, you might say, and you would be right. The message of the Handmaid's Tale is clearly different from, say, MDZS and everything it contains is a support of that message - that a woman's reproductive freedom is her right. And I would go, ah ha, yes. Intent. (You can still disagree with me lol. This came out of a conversation literally a week ago.)

But also note, the author's actual intent is secondary. It's a useful framing to understand what the message is, but due to e.g. unconscious bias, or internalised sexism, the message gained by the reader/audience can be entirely independent of the intent of the author. For example, (one of my all time favourite c-dramas) the Secret of the Three Kingdoms I think is trying to be empowering for women, has lots of cool female characters, but the ultimate message can be summarised as 'men plough, women weave'... which is :/

Another subtlety to point out is that trends and popular tropes/archetypes tell a very different story when looked at overall. 'Woman in the refrigerator' and 'bury your gays' isn't a problem about individual works (although it often is mixed into other problems), but it's prevalence and dominance spreads harmful messages. A work which is great on it's own can actually be contributing to a wider problem, thus making it a problem.

MDZS: Women as accessory

It's not that difficult to argue that MDZS has an exceptional cast of women. I have no intention of arguing that MDZS's women aren't well developed, because enough people have come up with compelling counterarguments and they aren't hard to find. I think MDZS's portrayal of sexism is both exceptionally nuanced and not something you see much of. I love the way MDZS uses and breaks down tropes. I would argue (have argued) that the way MXTX puts sexism into her works is (at least partly) very much deliberate, and not with the intent of being sexist.

But remember, death of the author: author's original intentions don't matter in the face of what can be read from the text.

Notable in MDZS is 1) the lack of female characters who aren't defined by their relation to a major male character 2) women in the refrigerator.

1) Jiang Yanli is Wei Wuxian's older sister. Yu Ziyuan is Wei Wuxian's adopted mother. Wang Lingjiao is Wen Chao's girlfriend. Madam Jin, Meng Shi, Qin Su. Now, there are notable exceptions. Wen Qing is Wen Ning's sister, but her character is substantial even without that. Luo Qingyang (mianmian). Sisi (arguably). But there are overwhelmingly more male characters, and perhaps more importantly, hardly any male characters defined by their relation to a female character. There are a few. Madam Mo and her husband. Jin Zixuan as Jiang Yanli's husband (arguably). This isn't an exhaustive list but you get the idea.

2) Well, firstly, most of them die. Yu Ziyuan ends up in an unhappy marriage and dies as her sect burns down. Jiang Yanli loses a husband and then sacrifices herself for her brother. Wang Lingjiao gets offed by Wei Wuxian. Qin Su is killed by her husband. Mo Xuanyu's mother and Madam Jin just die of 'heartbreak' for what? Plot convenience? More egregiously, all of these deaths are there to either a) plot reasons or b) to add to the development of a male character. This is precisely the 'women in the refrigerator' trope, but multiplied a million times.

The only female character who got her happy ending was Mianmian... who lives a simple life with her family in the middle of nowhere. And it's great that in being brave and pursuing the right thing, she found happiness for herself, but this being the only example is um...

Well, the message feels suspiciously like women exist only for men. Men are the protagonists of their stories. Women are accessories. Sounds pretty sus. Maybe this is all due to the sexism of the world, but the message is then that the only way for women to succeed is to leave the system altogether, which is a nuanced thing but not true and somewhat unhelpful as a message.

Now, arguably, MXTX is leaning into tropes in order to be critical of them. Her female characters are full of tropes, and subversions of tropes - they could act as a critique of female characters in BL (in the way the female characters in SVSSS are critique of female characters in harem). There are a few pointers to this - Mianmian standing up to sexism, or the depth and nuance of Yu Ziyuan finding power+influence through her marriage of Jiang Fengmian. But the point stands is that isn't the message most people take away, because of the way MDZS is framed. MDZS just works as a xianxia action/romance. It isn't a parody (or at least, you don't need to read it as one to follow it). It isn't explicitly critical of how the women end up, nor is the narrative centered around the experiences of women. It is very easy to take away the surface level messages, which I think many people end up doing.

Whatever MXTX intended to say with her female characters, arguably MDZS already adds to an existing problem in how media portrays women. Media plays a huge role in how we see ourselves and other people, and unideal representation of women can lead to unconscious biases and stereotypes which are harmful. This being the case, one could argue that any media that fails to either fix the issue or address the issue sufficiently is problematic. On this vein, MDZS falls short.

TGCF: women as secondary

While TGCF improves on the front of women in power doing well, and more explicitly calling out the sexism of the world, it fails at a different front: the lack of women within the core plot.

The structure of TGCF is very different to MDZS, in that it contains a lot of what I would call 'side quests'. This is not a bad thing (this is sort of the whole point of things like (old) Star Trek or Doctor Who). But the core story of TGCF is (arguably) 1) Xie Lian's two ascensions and in between 2) Meeting Hua Cheng at various points 3) Tonglu mountain. And within this core story, there isn't a single female character necessary for the plot.

Ling Wen, Xuan Ji, Banyue, Shi Qingxuan, Yushi Huang... are all exceptional female (and non-binary) characters in their own right, but the story doesn't require them. They could be swapped out quite easily with other characters, unlike e.g. main pair, Feng Xin, Mu Qing, Jun Wu... (Note this isn't about how often they appear, or how developed they are. Lang Ying (the old one) doesn't appear a lot, but is essential to the plot.) (Yushi Huang and Ling Wen are kind of required, but equally for like... quest and item giving purposes which is not really the same.)

It's almost like there is no female person in Xie Lian's life who is essential to his personhood. And the message might inadvertently be that women are part of side quests - they aren't necessary.

This is, in part, a Xie Lian problem. The narration is tied closely to Xie Lian's pov (but isn't third person limited, interestingly), and we get delights like this:

Aside from the fact that Xuan Ji went mad whenever she ran into Pei Ming, she was otherwise much more detail-oriented and cautious than Qi Rong - she was a woman, after all.

(btw, be exceptionally suspicious of statements like 'women are more detail-oriented and cautious'. They are often wrong, or with heavy caveats.)

This is not on it's own a bad thing - e.g. compare with Shen Qingqiu's narration in SVSSS. But it is arguably a bad thing if you pair it with the fact that Xie Lian is 1) presented as much more likable than Shen Qingqiu 2) is not as obviously bias. He comes across as a trustable character, and so we are less likely to question his biases... so we run into the same problem as in MDZS: we aren't led to question the surface level messages, so the message we take away is an unhelpful one.

I feel like the way around this is (somewhat paradoxically) to reintroduce female characters whose lives (from narrator pov) revolve around the protagonist. (e.g. get in an Jiang Yanli) (The 800 year time skip means they either need to 1) become gods, 2) become ghosts 3) die, all of which have their own potential problems but that's for the author to figure out :p) Making Xie Lian less sexist would be slightly unrealistic but not at all out of character. Having Xie Lian's biases explicitly called out and this be a big thing is another way to go. Or both.

To conclude

Both points fall down to something along these lines: although both MDZS and TGCF make attempts at commentary on the struggles of women, because this narrative is not at the forefront of the story they inadvertently give across only half the message, which is worse than no message at all. 'There are tropes within the genre which treat women badly and this is bad' becomes 'women are like what these tropes say they are like'. 'Women aren't given opportunities so end up worse off' becomes 'women end up worse off'.

Maybe something in between MDZS to TGCF would be an improvement, but also, if the focus on male characters meant these narratives were difficult to execute within a reasonable word count, it might have been better to just skip sexism altogether. (sci fi is usually where this is attempted seriously, but fantasy definitely has scope for imagining better societies.) (This is all much easier said than done btw. Part of a fan's job is to stand on the sidelines and complain, right? 😂)

#mxtx #mxtx meta #mdzs #tgcf

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