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gaoau · 4 months

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smth smth uhhh tsurune character analysis time wsg

i've never done this before in my life and i shouldn't even be doing it cause that's crazy tf BUT hi :blush: i'm Kisaragi Nanao's number one fan and hater simultaneously and i need to talk about it. chances are none of this will make the slightest bit of sense, cause thinking about his brain for more than five minutes usually has me going around in circles like a headless chicken. its been almost a year and i have not been able to stop thinking about him, not even in my most trying times so i might as well do the one thing i'm good at and write each and every single one of my thoughts down so the void can eat them all up. my friends are tired of hearing me talk about this so now its your turn, people in the tsurune but more specifically the Nanao tag on tumblr dot com. i'll try to avoid the Kaito talk as much as i can cause i wanna make this solely about Nanao, but i also understand that a lot of their character development goes hand in hand with one another, so it's sort of inevitable

to be completely honest, i wanted to be a Ryohei girlie so bad, i would've even settled for Seiya. i just knew the moment Nanao pulled up and was presented as the flirty annoying playboy, i wouldn't like him. i said it with my whole chest, firmly believing i would find absolutely no reason anywhere in his character to enjoy him. motherfucker i have never been more wrong in my life. at first glance, it doesn't even look like there's much to talk about, cause he doesn't do a whole lot in the first season. except he does. there's only snippets of depth in his character that exist, but he does not let show in order to watch over everyone around him. his introduction is loud and frivolous, especially with one of his first spoken sentences being about his "hakama beauty."

sure, he's good at kyudo, but he's not particularly excellent nor passionate about the sport. this, however, is not true, which builds up in his character as the first season progresses and eventually overflows in the second season. for a character that, in universe, is shown to be in the spotlight consistently ever since he was a child, he's none of that on the range, because that isn't his place. his position on the range is not as important as it is outside of it; he is the yonteki, he is neither at the beginning nor the middle nor the end, he cannot show off, he cannot be the centre of attention as he tends to be. it's true that he attracts a lot of attention and plays into it naturally, because he enjoys it and extroverts, however unfortunate, do exist, but he knows when to take a step back and when to go all out.

there's something i can't ever seem to quite put my finger on. although he is naturally easy-going and playful, this is only a ramped-up front he uses to watch from the back. it's like he's hiding, like he's staying nonchalant and uncommitted so things wash over him. he's blunt. he's so blunt. he really doesn't sugarcoat things, he just doesn't say them until he needs to. i don't wanna call it manipulation, cause that's got a rather negative connotation, but i do wanna call it manipulation, cause that's what it is. he knows how to manipulate responses and reactions with how easy he reads the people around him, and he uses all of that in a very level-headed way to keep peace, though it's always mainly Kaito. it's as if people are malleable to him. it's in the way he pulls Ryohei into doing that whole charade to get Kaito to like Minato, in how he straight up tells Kaito "yeah, it's cause you're being annoyingly tsundere, we're just giving you a push," or in how he tells Minato "yeah, Kacchan don't like you, but he's working on it."

he knows, he's watching, and he's making sure everyone is being accounted for without meddling too much. he sets things into motion with the right push, but he stays out of it, uninvolved. he keeps going on and on about how he's only doing kyudo with nothing but simple bull-headedness, like it doesn't matter all that much, like he can just shrug things off and let Kaito's impulsive comments not get to him. he plays it off, he plays everything off, leaning into that flighty, frivolous prince charming persona, but at the end of the day, he's the most mature and emotionally intelligent of the bunch.

most of his development is built around connections. whenever Kaito reminds him that he is not taking kyudo seriously, that kyudo is not a game, that kyudo is more than just fun and looking pretty in hakama, Nanao keeps quiet. it's something he knows very well, because none of those are any of the reasons he ever picked up a bow in the first place. he has been watching over Kaito since they were children, going so far as to follow him into kyudo and into the same high-school. however, this is something that Kaito does not recognize for the longest time—not until Nanao actively blows up on him and spells it out for him. Nanao doesn't need for his efforts to be recognized, because he is only doing it to keep peace and read everyone carefully—not only Kaito—to figure out what makes who tick.

he supports his buddies from the back and intervenes only when it's necessary. he aims to please without being self-abandoning; he keeps true to his own self while being a perfect fit for everyone. despite claiming his reasons for shooting are frivolous and superficial, Nanao has an understanding of what sets the people around him off that makes keeping him around necessary, because he shoots for Kaito and now for this team, rather than the target in front of him. he knows, he's so perceptive of it all. there's a scene stuck in my head where Ryohei tries to speak up about the whole Seiya-Nikaido interaction that was bugging him, but he ended up going back on it last minute, and Nanao straight up went "bro, either you commit to it or don't talk."

idk!! call it his big brother instincts, cause that's another thing. things do kinda make a lot more sense when you consider that he is the only one out of everyone in the club (that we know of, cause there's not much about my girls) who is an older sibling. Kaito has two older sisters, Seiya has an older brother, Ryohei has an older sister, and Minato is an only child. Nanao is the only big brother. god i'm losing my fucking mind.

i called him loud and i'll keep calling him loud, but in all honesty Nanao is a lot more silent than he seems. he flirts with his fanclub and attempts it too with the girls in the club, he is quite loud with his "Merha!", he pushes and prods all around with funny comments because, at the end of the day, he is still an entertainer, a mood-maker, and most of all, he's a child. he's still a fifteen-year-old kid that's just dicking around with his friends cause it's not that deep. he's a kid. however, he is consistently reading everyone around him, keeping peace from behind them, working his way around everyone’s quirks and kinks. he's been somewhat forced into this caretaking role, taking comments like "it'd be nice if you and Kaito went to the same school so you can keep him in check" to heart. he too wishes he could be there for his cousin to reel him back in when he steps out of line. and he does, he tries, being the first one to react and try to pull Kaito back before he can bash Minato's face in.

he does things carefully in a way that won't put pressure on anyone other than himself, watching and watching and watching and being so hypersensitive to the smallest of mood changes from anyone. that one little sigh Ryohei gave, to which he immediately went, "what's wrong?" while nobody else batted an eye. when he is the one whose patience finally runs thin, he confronts Kaito about it with truths he has never needed to explain because Kaito would not have been able to digest them properly, and Nanao has always known.

he competes not to win, but to keep up, to stay with his cousin and his team; not approaching a sport with a competitive mindset would be a hindrance to the team, which does not mean he is competitive himself. and he loves kyudo, too, just as much. his expressions and mannerisms are subtle and soft in a way that anyone would miss, but he is happy to see the people that surround him stay on track, with or without his help.

i lose my train of thought every time i start a new sentence cause there's so much i have to say about Nanao. there's a crazy amount of points i go over in my head time and time again. the fact that his hit rate is so consistent, enough to keep up with Kaito and almost with Seiya. how he does not give one flying fuck about Noririn, but he indulges Daigo anyway cause it's fun and it works and he's got nothing to lose by showing a little bit of interest in some guy's idol obsession. how he was watching from the outside, because Kaito never told him what happened with Masaki or why he suddenly wanted to start kyudo, but he was so into it that he was going in all on his own. (i say "never told him" but there's that audio drama where he did, in fact, tell him and the boys.) how kyoani uses him as a sort of bridge between the girlies and the boys just cause he's that much of a social chameleon, i guess. how he's the only other character aside from Minato, the MC mind you, who has not one but TWO features in the character songs album. he's a bridge dawg he's a fit for everyone and anyone. i dunno man i have so many thoughts and zero words to articulate them, but i love this kid. shoutout to this kid, i hope he's having a great day and his lemon teas are always the right temperature. lil bro needs a pat on the back and i wanna be the one to give it to him.

#tsurune #nanao kisaragi #kaito onogi #real talk hes gotta be my favorite character ever cause what the FUCK is up with him #seriously no other character has ever incapacitated me so much as to leave me tongue tied this is ridiculous #im not even sure anything i wrote makes sense but i need to speak this into the void and hope that someone ANYONE will understand #do you get it guys do you i dont think you do you wouldnt understand #tell me why i have seen more kaito stans than nanao ones #which shoutout to kaito hes okay hes just not that interesting to me #ryohei is far more interesting maybe one day ill also talk about how lonely ryohei is and that whole thing with shu #(i dont like shuu)#okay good night

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kaus-quietis · 2 months

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Greetings, Anon! Thank you for your questions. I have to admit, even in the past, I refrained from posting reactions or speculations as BSD chapters release, but you already knew that, so I will indulge you. I'll answer each part of your ask. BSD ch113 thoughts below, manga spoilers ahead.

♠ "What was your raw reaction?" It was not a calm, quiet one, I can tell you that. No, in fact I screamed with excitement as if I was in a Roman amphitheatre and my favourite gladiator just got back up on his feet, out of sheer force of will, grinning and sweaty. My scream was the fastest way I could "verbalize" the fact that I was overjoyed to see him alive again, even if it's in the 15th century, and on top of that he seemed to be some kind of spy monk all chained up and having what seems to be a ridiculous amount of fun getting caught and discussing with Bram. This is all very in-character for him.

♠ "Was that something you expected?" Absolutely not. Yes, yes, I truly did not expect a jump back in time and this infobomb drop, despite the fact that we did get a few hints that Fedya seemed present at past events when all the other character really appeared younger than him (near the end of S4ep3, where on a rooftop Fedya says "It's not V, it's Five" and I am seriously like bruh I give up what I want to say is I need more data to work with, what am I supposed to do with this, rationally speaking?). However, we can't yet extract anything conclusive from this. Is he ageless? A time-traveler? Immortal? Does he revive? When was he born? Was he born at all or created differently somehow? Is he of BSD's world, or an external one (Beast liveaction finale anyone?)? Is this all within the Book and he's just… idk flipping the pages? Anything is possible and I refuse to spend a lot of time working with incomplete data. This is not very follower-friendly (as in, my blog is basically inactive in-between), I know and I apologize, but if after many chapters there will be something worthwile to add to my essay (with what Fukuchi said in ch113 I already have important stuff to add), under those circumstances I will consider writing an update. It's not yet time.

♠ "<Was that> something you felt different for the characterization we all made for Fyodor?" Hmm, I would hesitate to refer to a characterization "we all made" for him (I wish! T o T), because my analysis and blog are but a tiny tiny part of the fandom (I think…? I wonder about my Fedya essay's reach or influence sometimes). But let's say here we refer to one that comes close to what I tried to show in my essay. In that case, I would say that there is nothing to fear here in this chapter, but it's very understandable to have massive trust issues at this point. We went through a miserable, miserable time when the previous ones made the guy who visually memorized a full deck of used cards somehow not notice Chuuya wearing contacts and fake vampire teeth, despite knowing the vampire race since… well, the 15th century! I cannot even begin to describe what I felt reading ch111.5-112, I was beyond repulsed. Lovers of "villain" characters understand the following thing well: in most media, our fav has to lose, he has to die or disappear at some point, with rare exceptions. I, too, know this well, but that was no compelling way to solve BSD's villain threat. I still don't know how BSD will wash away that narrative stain, as I consider it, but then again one of the reasons we love this manga is that it keeps us on the edge of our seats and the most absurd yet fun turns can happen out of the blue. We can reasonably ask ourselves: ok, what is the purpose of showing Fedya's backstory now? If it's for build-up, we can already start grinning like Cheshire cats. What could possibly be next? I'm cautiously optimistic, things look in-character and good to me. Very good, in fact.

♠ "Or do you think it is later on going add some depth to his character?" Backstories are shown usually for a very clear purpose. We don't know the purpose yet, but if it's done well, then… then my whole essay could be at risk lmao (and I love this sensation). New info could add so much depth to his character, in fact, that his previously observed traits could gain new meanings, or even contradictory ones. Whichever it will be, I think it's pretty safe to bet on "his backstory will be very relevant".

♠ Bonus: even if I enjoy going "full analytical" and enter conference speech mode when asked, I am driven by strong emotions, by which I want to say – I am not immune to assassin/spy monk Fedya chained up like that and having the time of his life again. I missed seeing him entertained like that, and his current …………. visual representation in the.. uh. ..chapter, yeah, well, it's doing things to my Depeche Mode-worshipping heart.

Anyway, to conclude with some facts we know as of now:

a. Fedya and Bram are inside the Bran Castle, close to the Romanian city of Brașov, "deep in the Carpathians" although not built at high altitude itself. It's basically a fortress built between 1377-1388, with several later additions. The BSD representation of it is very accurate to how it looks today. It's near perfect, actually, I applaud.

b. Bram mentions King Matthias, and in this context that can only mean Matthias Corvinus, King of Hungary for 1458-1490. The meeting between Fedya and Bram thus happens some year during his reign, when Transylvania was still part of the Kingdom of Hungary. What is still strange to me is that I can't pinpoint Bram's exact position, as in… were his people independent? Or avoided? I feel like I need to re-read past Bram-related chapters to think about this.

c. Nevermind Bram, the things that Fukuchi says, those are the real goldmine here, but the gold is still… encrypted? I mean: Fedya made the DoA plan (more than confirmed now), and because Fukuchi asked for the condition to keep casualties under 500, Fedya respected that and we got entertained for like half of the whole BSD manga: using coin bombs for terror, for economic/political destabilization, using the vampire infection to avoid further violence, these things. The more you think about it, the more insane it gets. Since Fedya agreed to this condition, it means causing (more) deaths and violence were expendable things to him. (But imagine this: Fukuchi said "I want max. 500 deaths" and Fedya said "Yeah I can do that", now if Fukuchi would've said "I want max. 2 deaths" I really believe Fedya would've still said "Yeah I can do that". What can't he do, especially since murder for murder's sake isn't his goal?). This is in perfect harmony with his "necessary deaths only" approach so far, and much much more. There are far more implications in what Fukuchi said, which I won't type out here now. Gotta keep them and build around them for a future analysis update.

This was a rather long read, but still, I hope this satisfies your curiosities, Anon. *bows dramatically & disappears in a borderline insufferable ENTP way*

#Lav answers #I can't believe I wrote so much #yet still I will keep true to my principle of not over-speculating with insufficient data #a proper essay update would be much more valuable than making separate monthly posts even though in this way I can't contribute to the hype #or despair #or both #but fans of patient analysis will profit .. richly from this #someday!#sigh why is it I can talk about Fedya for hours #why can't I..... ugh.......#Iiiiiiii caaaaan't stooooop lovinggg youuuu #OTL................#man I've chosen the best manga character of all time frfr #also as of ch113 my Philosopher!Fedya fanfic is basically.................canon-friendly to the highest degree and I can't believe it #it happens in like the 1440-1450s and I dont even know how to feel about this reveal skjdfng

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brownsplodge · 1 year

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An over the top and in depth analysis on the rottmnt Family medic candidates, and in what order I’d place them to be in as the most suitable medics(real: Splodge sucks at writing short titles)

I’m not usually one for making hcs outside of the known canon, but there are lots of hcs in rottmnt that i love/absolutely agree with. I’m not sure about this one, i don’t feel there is a fixed medic in the family, but it does make sense ngl.

I’m gonna analyse each family member to tell which ones would be the best to fit the role of medic(or replacement Medic).

Raph: Raph would be very likely to become stressed even if someone skinned a knee slightly, or go over the top if one of his family members were injured(not really a bad thing, but it could make them uncomfortable). He wouldn’t be a great medic, not only because of his obviously larger and therefore more clumsy hands, but also because you have to stay calm, or at least be able to keep a cool head when you treat wounds, especially if they’re bad. Raph is in my opinion probably the worst candidate for a medic in most situations, though he could be good if he stays calm and is careful, as he is very motherly and he would probably be good at looking after someone while helping them.

Leo: Leo is as far as I’m aware the most popular candidate for medic in the fandom, and I do see why. He is smart enough to learn something if he wanted to or felt the need to, and he is the best at manipulating others into thinking he’s calm or laid back even in the worst situations. He’s pretty neat in his own way and would probably be able to make whoever he’s treating be so annoyed they don’t even care about being wounded(/pos/j). He’s likely to do it correctly, unlike his other family members, all more likely to go over the top or not know what to do.

Donnie: Donnie was at first my most logical option, but I realised the flaw in this quite fast. Though he’s very smart and no doubt has excellent knowledge in lots of Things, his interests are mostly in technology(that can be useful in certain medical situations, to be fair), and even though it’s likely he knows in theory how to treat wounds, he easily gets nauseous(as seen, especially in the film, a couple times when he feels sick at seeing certain slimy gooey stuff(unspecified to avoid spoilers). Also, agin like with Raph, he might go over the top, and not just because he cares about his brothers but also because he seems like exactly the kind of guy to be a bit of a hypochondriac.

Mikey: Mikey might be a good medic ngl. At first I thought obviously not, but I realised he might not be that bad. He could probably learn medical knowledge(with a bit of difficulty probably), even if his attention span seems a bit short, and other than knowledge, he might be quite a nice caretaker to have. He’s cheerful so you are likely to feel less stressed, and I bet he has a ton of colourful plasters. If the injuries aren’t very bad, Mikey would be a great medic, and the main reason I’m saying if they’re not bad is because he’s pretty young(to be fair not a lot younger than his brothers, but still young), and learning medical knowledge takes time and a good concentration is definitely a plus(which Mikey doesn’t really have). He’d probably be a pretty bangin’ therapist though.

Splinter: Oof. I’m not sure actually. I know that splinter at least at the beginning is pretty neglectful, but he would definitely try to help his family if they needed it, we all know that. The problems I see are that firstly, similar to Raph, he doesn’t seem to handle stress all that well. And secondly, the boys are likely to injure themselves doing something they weren’t supposed to, so they wouldn’t go to ask him for help.

April: I’m a little surprised that April doesn’t really appear as a medic in any fics/hcs. She would, in my opinion, be a pretty good one. She’s a little impulsive, but that’s mainly when it comes to battle, and she would probably be the smartest if it weren’t for Donnie. As far as I’m aware she doesn’t get nauseous as easily, and she can definitely act fast and smart even in dangerous/stressful situations. She probably won’t go over the top or … under the top I guess, and she’s a great improviser, probably would be able to patch someone up on the spot if needed.

In conclusion, I think that even though Medic Leo isn’t a bad hc, I think medic April makes more sense. The order I would put them in would be:

April

Leo

Donnie

Mikey

And Raph and splinter tied.

I hope you had fun watching me rambling without proof or rewatches and I bid you farewell and good luck on your turtly adventures

#I spent way too much time on this #rottmnt #rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles #analysis #rottmnt analysis #medic leo #medic #medic everyone #teenage mutant ninja turtle headcanons #rise donnie #rise leo #rise splinter #rise mikey #rise raph

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spritehouse · 7 months

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have you ever read the olden compass? or watched the show? If you have (and I would recommend you do) what do you thing the bau’s demons would be (if you haven’t but you still want to answer this you can just look it up) I have a few ideas but I’m not completely sure

I think Morgan’s would be a German Shepard and Reid’s would be an oriental longhair. And I know Gideon would be some sort of bird but I’m not sure about the rest of them

I would love your thoughts on it!

i haven't read/watched it, but i have read fics about it and i love them! a particular favorite of mine is the series "his dark mind" by deejaymill which destroyed me in the best way possible.

i got so invested in the series that a lot of my hcs/ideas come from there, but here are my thoughts:

derek - pitbull(?) i don't know a lot about dogs, but derek's dæmon would absolutely be a dog.

pitbull might be a bit basic, but yk, looks tough and intimidating but actually a softie. i think it fits.

spencer - hare this is absolutely from the series i mentioned before because i love spencer and his hare dæmon sm, but it also fits so well.

alternatively, (and this is 100% me self-projecting) i think a type of cat or crow would fit too—intelligent, talkative, a little skittish, cunning, and loves shiny things :]

emily - cat not just because of sergio, but emily is 100% a cat, probably a black one too. i think a black cat would fit her so well and she and spencer would make great cat dæmon buds

jj - butterfly also from the series. just assume all of these come from there at this point but i digress.

partially because she collected butterflies as a kid, but also bright, charming, and deceptively delicate. or maybe a frog for similar reasons.

tbh, i haven't studied jj's character a lot simply because i'm not very good at writing her

hotch - wolf(?) i think hotch would have a canine dæmon (loyal, protective, smart, etc) but i also don't think he'd have a dog.

(the rest of hotch's explanation talks about child abuse in reference to hotch's implied backstory. the end of this section will be marked with *** if you skip)

anyways idk if this is canon or just from the fics i've read, but i saw somewhere that children who suffer from abuse before their dæmons settle often end up with large predators (or tiny prey). my personal hc for hotch/hotch's father was that he was forced to be strong and masculine, so his dæmon settled on a form that would fulfill those expectations to avoid further trouble.

***

also hotch would look really cool with a grey wolf.

penelope - blue jay penelope would absolutely have a corvid. small and very unscientific infodump: part of the classification for corvids is advanced throat. muscles to make more complex sounds. corvids are also the most intelligent birds researchers have studied to date (im getting my information from wikipedia and my brain so don't quote me on this). add in the blue jay's bright color and you have pg!

elle - fox alternatively: ferret, stout, or weasel

intelligent, cunning, proud, and a little tricky. i don't have an in-depth explanation for this, i just think it fits.

luke - shepard i'm so biased with roxy, but i do think it fits. loyal, intelligent, and protective. i've love to do a huge luke analysis about this but i really have nothing else to say. he's a shepard.

gideon - owl full honesty, i didn't put a lot of thought into this. i was kinda just like "yeah that vibes"

owls are stereotypically old and wise

rossi - hawk again, i really didn't put too much thought into this, just thought it fit the vibes

alex - serval this is self-projection and also not very thoughtful (i am in class as im typing this and maybe should be paying attention but the vibes).

servals are very intelligent felines and love puzzles. i was going to look into a large cat species that's very maternal (though serval mothers do care and hunt for their young alone and are very independent mothers) but again, im in class so this is what we're going with.

i didn't do kate, seaver, matt, or stephen, just because i feel like i dont know them well enough, but here are my unthought-out opinions:

kate: lion/lioness (ik dæmons are usually of the opposite gender of their humans, but i feel like she'd just. Have a Lioness.)

seaver: fox

idk the other two but i'd love to know what you think!

edit: i just realized i forgot to acknowledge your thoughts, i got very excited about my opinions, but i also agree with those! derek's as a german shepard (from my limited knowledge about shepards) makes a lot of sense for the same reason i think luke is and also spencer is such a feline guy idk how to explain it, he just Is.

#criminal minds #criminal minds hcs #spencer reid #luke alvez #jennifer jareau #emily prentiss #jason gideon #elle greenaway #aaron hotchner #derek morgan #david rossi #alex blake #penelope garcia #lex answers #lex hcs #lex rambles

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mybg3notebook · 9 months

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I know you have not uploaded in several years and might not even see this, but I wanted to say thank you SO much for your amazing explorations of Gale. He is a very complex and often misunderstood character and I think your meta posts on him hit the mark perfectly. If the spark arises I hope you will return after the full release :) Thank you again for all your wonderful posts! Have a nice day!

Hello!

Thank you very much. I am still around, it's simply work and other games have got my attention, and after playing EA so many times, I am already burnt out to the bones. I am also deeply disappointed with Larian's latest changes.

Hopefully, after release, I will continue with more analysis if the game is worthy of that. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how well these analysis of Gale will hold with the apparent rewrite of his character. If the new description of him ends up being true and it's not a terrible lie to the player, since nothing of that was shown or hinted in EA, these analysis will fall apart. In fact, if he ends up being another boring, overused, cliche wizard who wants power because he wants to be the biggest wizard of Toril :rolling eyes:.... I may lose any interest in him. All what made him interesting and a bit "original" within the context of Forgotten Realms has been erased completely with that new description.

I'm also disappointed with Larian in general, because it's obvious their two fave chars are forced through the player's throat like Liara was in Bioware's case. You don't care about them? It doesn't matter, they will always take priority in conversation and scenes, they will be key in showing another side of the main plot (as it was Fane in DOS2) and the rest of the companions become secondary or forgettable.

And Karlach's final face is a horror. It's a variation of Shadowheart's face, a barby-Karlach, because clearly Larian feeds bro gamers who want yet another doll-faced woman. I find annoying that nobody complained for this change: her first potential face (not the placeholder), with half face burnt and scarred, hard eyes, and a longer and pronounced nose, was the face of a warrior who went to hell and back... now you have the baby-doll face, Red!Shadowheart, almost, lol. It's a bit unsettling. It reminds me when Larian made their big-boobs lizard women in DOS1.

At least they did what I thought it was a must: to truly write Wyll, because that char was inconsistent, lacked of depth in comparison with the rest of the other companions, and was, basically, a future Beast (dos2) in BG3. That's why I didn't even bother to write a general overall analysis of his character. I suspected he had to be written at some point because it's was a cardboard character in there, just there to be your black char token. You know, the black char we add to a game so we look "progressive" but still has bad development as a char or it's simply shallow when compared with the depth of the other chars. Pretty much like Larian does with their lgbt representation too.

Larian's lgbt representation also bothers me. It is mostly hidden in books and lines of text in this world (yes, yes, Astarion is the only char shown and written lgbt openly, but the rest of the world has no lgbt integrated chars, or the few two couples we saw in EA are unhealthy and horrible-the gnome lesbian-or absolutely hidden in one single line that, if you miss it, you can confuse them as brothers -the husband gnomes-). We can have a long discussion about how Larian does playersexual characters that are not any representation of lgbt, because they are not written like bi but hetero, and their "bisexuality" only appears when you romance them (and this was done in DOS2 too, with barely a line or two hidden in Lohse's origin to show some potential, little bi inclination). It's so strong how they write their characters as hetero, that even in several parts of the romances of DOS2 you have descriptions where it shows that the default was clearly "man tall and woman smaller", even when in DOS2 world that may not apply to some hetero couples (elves and lizards). But all this discussion about playersexuality is a long one I'm not even sure the fandom can have at this point. I wish to be wrong and see more lgbt characters naturally integrated to the world, and not reduced to short stories in books or to whom you romance with your Tav. But I doubt it. Larian follows the masses. And Masses care nothing about this. Thank you for the ask, and have a nice day too!

#bg3 early access - answers

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ratcandy · 3 months

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hi hello hi!! i just finished bingereading cogr and i hope you don't mind if i yell into your inbox about your fic lol

SO FIRST OF ALL. i never expected i would get so attached to zote. but now i am! i will never get the neglect achievement after reading this. but i can't even be mad it's so good

i have to say that it's a really, REALLY good example of how to add depth to a normally unlikable character! like by the end zote is still at least a bit of a bastard, but after knowing how horribly literally everything in his life has gone you can't help but feel bad for him and hope things start looking up.

plus, it provides an explanation for why he's Like That. genuinely if he got therapy to work through his multitude of issues he'd probably be, like, 10x nicer about everything.

also while i did read the tags, i can't say i expected it to be THAT dark, mostly because i was thinking "it's a fic about zote being a nosk it can't be THAT bad." but nope! this man is suicidally depressed and by the end he's barely even trying to hide it. i don't mind though, it's DELICIOUS angst

OH and the format of the fic, where it's presented as zote talking to Someone Else, is absolutely GENIUS for this fic. genuinely this choice makes the fic so much better. i mean ok to start off i normally hate first-person pov in fanfiction but this sort of format i like. HOWEVER that's not my main point here

this structure lets zote's personality really shine through. if it wasn't filtered like this, first of all everything would be revealed way too quickly but also the writing would lose all of its character and emotion. plus the tangents and mid-sentences corrections, the way he corrects and interrupts himself...it's all BECAUSE of how this fic is framed. i just...aaah!! i don't know how to FULLY express how much i love the way cogr is framed. just know that i think it was a perfect choice on every possible level

OH I JUST REMEMBERED!! it makes the ending possible, and holy shit the ending. it's SUCH a gutpunch to realize he's all alone, talking to nobody, and then he just...keeps on talking. i am still reeling from it as i type this ask. bravo i think this is one of the best endings to a fic i've seen, especially for a sad ending

other things i've noticed!! first of all, there is excellent use of zote's unreliable narrating for foreshadowing, as well as wonderful callbacks and parallels!! i don't remember everything 100% since i was admittedly reading pretty quickly but from what i DO remember, i'm pretty sure i could go through cogr and find a TON of good stuff like this.

one thing i noticed in particular, the way he based himself off of vessels...DELICIOUS parallels there. i don't remember everything like i said but i'm pretty sure zote says some stuff about how it was dangerous to express emotions in the nosk den? stuff like that makes the way zote chose to disguise himself as a vessel just...augh. perfection 10/10

i also LIVE for your nosk lore and worldbuilding. i don't have much to say about this i just really like worldbuilding and this is quality

i also decided to read the trivia doc and first of all. the yikes ending would have been...i want to say cruel but honestly i'm more inclined to say tragic? although cogr is already a tragedy...ooh that would be interesting analysis, although i don't really have fully formed thoughts on it yet

ON A LIGHTER NOTE, the au in the trivia doc with zote AND two siblings?? it's one of the only ways that this whole mess could go happily (although that's to be expected of a hollow knight thing tbh), and i am rotating it in my mind.

ANYWAY that's all i have to say!! or well it isn't but it's all i can think of and actually communicate understandably lol. anyway cogr is a 10/10 fic and i will be thinking about it for the rest of my life

I'M SO NORMAL ABOUT THIS ASK <-- SHE'S LYING SHE MIMED PUNCHING A WALL AND YELLED OUT LOUD "YEEEAAAAHHHH!!!!" WHILE SHE READ

I am deVOURING this I . HOUGH. Big long ask about my big long fic I must consume it so vigorously. my TTEEETH are ripping INTO THIS

OK !! 1: GOOD That you're attached to Zote now!!!!! I love hearing that I've dragged people into Hell unimaginable!!!! Fuck yeaH!!!

AND 2: hhoughHHHhhgouh ;s;;;;; hhhhg;sh. This ask is so nice I am smiling so much and giggling and kicking my feet. also the hdgKJH "It can't be THAT dark!" hdgkJH YEAH. IT. Tends to blindside people from what I've heard!!!!!!

Hhoguhhh ;;; I wish I could respond in a more cohesive manner but I am jus. Gushing . Thank youuu thank you so much I'm so normal about getting complimented

ALSO YOU DRAWING THE PARALLEL BETWEEN HIS DIGUISE BEING A VESSEL .... I kid you not I Out Loud just went YES!!! and started clapping and hooting and hollering because i"m so normal especially when my Funny Symbolism gets noticed dhKSHDGKLHG

AS for whether CoGR counts as an honest Tragedy ... obviously I would DEVOUR any analysis on it BUT From My perspective. I go with a Maaaybe ? Since tragedies are like. The downfall is brought about by the protagonist's own actions. And like. Yes! But also ? but also Sort of! I'm not sure!!!!!!

AND SIBLINGS AU YES!!!!!! That one has been developed a bit more since that trivia doc thing!!!!! I'll tag the siblings au tag in the. Tags, an u can go through what we had for it!!!!! It is indeed the only happy version of the story (with some inevitable angst still sprinkled in of course) but!! YEA!! Bronze (Zote's brother) and Silva (Zote's sister) are my beloveds for all time

OK I'm normal now. I'm so normal.Yep. Thumbsup emoji THANK YOU SO much for this ask I .will be returning to it frequently I'm sure. just so I can go EEE and flail my arms around and rip my teeth into it <33333333

#siblings au #<- for Looking if u so desire ......#but AA. YEA!!!! I'm so normal when receiving giant compliments yep I'm soooo normal.#i need a tag for. things like this. so i can go back and eat all of it readily.........#we shall See.#THANK YOU AGAIN!!!!!!!! SORRY FOR RAMBLING AND YELLING SO MUCH I'M SO NORMAL.#clamtalk #cogr

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sweetobseesion · 2 years

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WHY THE AUDIENCE FAILED TO UNDERSTAND HAE SOO: PART 1

*If u do not agree with my views on Hae Soo and think that she’s undeserving or not well written character , I hope you can still read this post .This is a post that is meant to analyse Hae Soo and defend her. I’m writing this based on my personal observations after seeing so much hatred and vicious name-calling against her character, so it will be a bit emotionally charged.

In part one, I will analyse the audience expectations for her character with a detailed look into the circumstances and her position in the drama to give better insight into her choices.And in part two, I might delve into analaysing her as a character

Out of every single post I’ve ever read written about Moonlovers, from the absolutely cynical to the intense emotional ones, they all seem to have one thing in common: A disdain and displeasure towards Hae Soo for seemingly not living up to their expectations: being weak, too kind, not cunning enough, being undeserving of the male leads and not “loving” or “understanding" of the male leads. I suppose the above-mentioned reasons are enough to hint to explain why I’m writing this post. Thee are so many expectations that she has been placed with that she cannot satisfy all of them, at least without breaking character consistency.

To understand where these expectations come from I think people need to look deeper into the stories and media we consume. I think if when examined, it will become apparent that most stories are set up around this epic battle that the leads are supposed to win. I believe by seeing stories like this through and through audiences easily root whoever they think are likely to come out on the winning side. The other supplementary characters are always decided if they are “good” or “bad” if they are on the heroes’ side. But the thing is, the whole story of the hero and journey to success is always skewed towards his perspective, and since he’s the winner he’s always painted as the good person. He's painted to be too good to the point that they sometimes lack flaws. The plot sometimes is designed to let them get away with anything and they always have the best lines, best timing, best entrance etc..just to get the audience to root for them.

In regards to moon lovers, in the beginning, it was touted as a show that this was a show about the fight for the throne where one would emerge the winner: The one who has it all. And Hae Soo a modern woman from the twenty-first century gets thrown into it, without a choice or resolution.

The reason I’m bringing that up is that there’s little true analysis and efforts to understand her perspective underneath and I find that it contributes to more misunderstandings of her character.

Back to my point about stories making you root for winners or those who “ potentially” seem like they have it under control, who’d win. They’re relatable and easy to root for, and do not require deep thoughts on in-depth analysis on why they make the choices they make. It’s easy entertainment.

But moon lovers is not easy entertainment. It’s a show that requires you to take a step back and look at the circumstances of each and every minor character, to fully understand the motive of their actions, as it easily spells it out like most kdramas do.

So, when one takes a step back, lets go of their anger, and takes a look at her circumstances, they realise that her actions actually make a lot of sense. Hae Soo or Ha Jin is a modern woman stuck in the tenth century and she is out there, without her consent. A lot of people call her dumb and ditzy for her antics when she first arrives in Goryeo.

But the thing is, in the case of transmigration, no Modern person will adapt to it as easily , because let’s face it, any Modern person that transmigrates back in history will have trouble adapting into those times, and they will make mistakes and they will have a hard time adapting.

No matter how smart they are, they will not appear as smart or reasonable to the people of that era, because to them their ideas wouldn’t make sense.

. This is why when Hae Soo makes mistakes by the count, it’s not unnatural or “dumb”, it’s the most realistic reaction anyone who got transported to an era thousands of years back will have. Her making mistakes is natural and is a very realistic depiction.

She tries to adjust by observing and make her time in Goryeo worthwhile by developing authentic human relationships and finding a hobby that she can develop. Which is fair enough and not a bad strategy for trying to fit in. Since the beginning she has trouble fitting in because she hasn’t grasped the social sanctions of that time, we find that she treats the experience with a sense of curiosity and fascination, which also in my opinion is quite accurate for a person who’s travelled back in time. People get frustrated yes, but the thing is for one to adjust to its surroundings they should get comfortable with it.

She takes in her Cousin’s advice and tries to fit in, finds a hobby and tries to adapt her passion for cosmetics in Goryeo society. She never intends to hurt her cousin in any way but she finds herself getting attracted to Wook because he seems kind, safe and trustworthy. She doesn’t have anyone to depend on and he seems very dependable and eager to help her settle in. Wook is very attracted to her because she seems very different from the women around him and she is very carefree and cheerful, which excites him and intrigues him.

Many people blame Hae Soo for hurting Myung Hee, but the thing is unlike Soo, Wook actually understands the social sanctions of his time and knows about his wife’s feelings very well. He knows how it affects him and he proceeds with it anyway. And he does know how dangerous it is for Hae Soo. While Hae Soo doesn’t know how dangerous it is for her reputation, she only avoids it to not hurt her cousin. The people around Hae Soo rarely give her good advice on how to deal with life in Goryeo and more focus ed on what she can offer and how she can cheer them up or play with them. Only Myung Hee cares about her as a person and for her safety.

The Princes that care for her do try to help her, but what they all do create more problems for her. They are happy to be entertained by her and play with her, but when it comes to helping her they are powerless. In some cases, where they do try to help, it always ends up backfiring and they end up digging up their own grave and in those cases, Hae Soo ends up taking the bullet for both herself and the princes. This is very clearly demonstrated when she was to be married off to the king. The princes try to help her but end up angering the king and she has to cut off her wrist to save both herself and the princes.

Notice how the King immediately forgets his anger at the princes and all the focus shifts to Hae Soo, who’s being blamed for the whole ordeal. And what’s worse is that is SHE IS WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE. This is a very important element of her character and I believe it is basically the reason why she was bought to Goryeo. So that she could be easily used and exploited. Whoever or whatever it was that brought her here, brought her here so that she could be used to influence and made to take responsibility that she is not responsible for. It/They know that Hae Soo is not the type to seek vengeance or develop greed at any given moment. A slight tug at her guilty conscience and she stops herself from doing anything she set out to do. And this sets up her circumstances and explains her actions throughout the show.

Unlike her Chinese Counterpart Ruoxi, Hae Soo is not allowed complete control of the scene and she is not given the privilege of being involved in politics and certain luxuries that Ruoxi was given. In the Cdrama, people listened to Ruoxi and took her input on many things and right from the beginning, many characters willingly gave her agency that its clear the plot is set up for her to shine. Her character is technically written to give her spotlight in many scenes and she easily fits into the “Strong female lead”. But Hae Soo on the other hand is shut down the moment she enters the Palace. Everyone from the King, Court Lady Oh to Yeonhwa is keen on reminding her to “Know her place” and focus on being a servant and to stay away from the Princes.

People expect her to change, to become the woman that can survive the throne politics and model herself around it so that she could become “queen” material and live happily with Wang So. But the thing is, to see why she never became ‘queen”, instead of solely judging her and hating her, one needs to look at her circumstance, her personality and the situations she was put in to get the full idea.

From the beginning, her life in the Palace was fraught with disasters. The only thing is unlike Wang So, she did not get all gloomy or complain about her hard her life is. Since she always is so positive, people often overlook the struggles she went through. All she wanted was a peaceful life, different from the life she’s led before and she wants to do it her own way, with independence and freedom.

The thing is the audience love to criticise her for not ‘having ambition’ but the thing is she cannot have ambition like the Royals do, precisely because, at the end of the day, she is not a Royal. She cannot openly scheme and show greed because if she did, her position will only become much worse. She will only be in even more danger if she vies for the throne while being close to the Princes while at the position of a servant. Besides, this is not a drama that is set in modern times where she can be all arrogant and sassy as she likes. If she were to act arrogant around people like Yeonhwa and Queen Yoo , then she is just giving them a reason to punish her as she lives in a time where I can be executed for offending a royal.

The entire drama goes on to Prove that the game of thrones is very much a royal game where only the Royals involved in the schemes tend to gain something.Every other servant (Chaeryung, lady that Yeonhwa bribed ) or clan member (Eun's family ) stand to lose everything by being affiliated with them and gain very little.

Bottom line is , when it comes to the choosing of a Queen, individual attributes do not matter as much as the birth status of a person (as in clan backing)which constitutes the main criteria for Queen selection because it guarantees troops and staus during emergency and power in court. It’s not just eliminating enemies at hand and taking the throne for herself. Because even if she were to become evil and eliminate Yeonhwa and Yo, she still wouldn’t be qualified to be Queen because she lost the backing of her clan when she refused Taejo and doesn’t have any other clan backing her up.

The only way she would have a fair chance at politics and become “queen material” is if she had agreed to marry Taejo and pulled a Wu Zetian, marrying his sons after his death. But then it would be a completely different drama, not to mention, it would totally distort Goryeo history.

It’s very clear that Hae Soo is put in a very dangerous and suffocating position and she has to fight for the little freedom that she can afford. Add complicated relationships and trauma on top of that, and the list is complete. The People around Hae Soo want her to play various different roles that suit them.

Besides, I highly doubt a romance of what would basically be an illicit affair between stepmom and stepson would be digestible because that's what it would be had she married Taejo.

Hae Soo& The people around her

In the show majority of the decisions she makes and the circumstances she ends up with can be directly linked to the people she cares about. As mentioned above, given her character, she always ends up taking the bullet for both herself and the princes, but her relationship with the princes is the sole reason why she gets bullied and framed.

Because of her relationship with the princes, all the forces in the palace manoeuvre against her starting from King Taejo, who deliberately kept trying to separate her from the princes. Queen Yoo, who kept trying to extort information from her, Wang Yo who used her and people like Yeonhwa, who saw her as a threat from the get-go.

But the relationship she has with each prince influences her and affects her differently.

The Princes are still very keen on maintaining a relationship that they used to have, while people like Queen Yoo are keen on using her as bait and extorting information from her, precisely due to her relationship with the Princes. While being close with the Princes does earn her some favours, it also puts her in danger and she easily becomes the target of bullying by her fellow Court Ladies.

Willingly ,she tries to help everyone and live for others. She thinks as long as she is kind, the world too will be kind to her. But inside the Palace, where everyone is out to get each other, her kindness makes her out to be the scapegoat more than anything else.

But to top that, her closeness with each prince makes her more vulnerable and stressed because each prince have their own expectations for and the role they wished her to fill. Eun, Baek Ah and Jung wanted her to play a friend, Wook wanted her to be a lover, So wanted her to be a confidante and the crown prince wanted her to cure him. And she had to balance all of it besides being a court lady.

So, to stay closer to them should she have been more ruthless? The answer is more complicated than it seems, but I think there’s more it than what appears and I think to look into why Hae Soo cannot say no to them and be ruthless, we need to look into her social standing.

Ha Soo's Position as a court lady

Like I've mentioned before, Hae Soo's chances of becoming Queen are affected by her being demoted to court lady and all it took to become a queen in those times, is to be the daughter of an influential family. It doesn't matter if she's cunning, beautiful or dumb, if her family is powerful, she can marry into the Royal family. But now that she's a court lady, she cannot marry into them and for worse, she is now their servant. What’s way Worse is, she's a servant who has powerful enemies and lovers who can not help her in any way.

If she were to scheme, like the others suggest, she has to be very alone in it because her Princes can not help her. Remember how they reacted when she was kneeling? Even Wang So can only do so much because even he has to remain in good graces with the king. She was and still is spied upon by many people, all of whom were eagerly watching her every move so it will not be easy for her to simply plot and frame someone. Because at the end of the day, to plot or scheme, you must have a powerful family and a title to back you up.

Notice that all the great schemers in the series are powerful, with a powerful family or person to support and protect them. And it’s important to take into context that Queen Yoo, Yeonhwa, Wook are all people of power, who have nothing but endless free time to sip tea, sit at the library and devote it all to their schemes.And if caught, they will never be properly punished because “reputation of the royal family”. At worse, they'll face an exile.

But Soo gets framed and she is tortured before people can confirm her part in the crime. And though there's little evidence, she is still sent to be executed.

But other than the precarious position she is in, unlike the royals she doesn't have time in her hands, because again, she is a court lady. And as a court lady, she is to fulfil tasks and duties every day and tend to the demands of those living in the palace.

The audience seems to have an extreme expectation of her but I don't blame them. After all, it's hard for them to grasp the reality of the situation because it isn't spelt out. But at the end of the day, there's only so much she can do. No one can balance the duties of being a court lady, fill the expectations of being the most devoted passionate lover while remaining an ingenious schemer who plots to end her enemies. No one has the energy, time or thinking ability to do so.

Queen Yoo and Yeonhwa can scheme so well because they have nothing but time to devote themselves to it. They live a pampered life where their every need is catered to by servants. Hence, they can dedicate all their time and energy to scheming effortlessly.

But Hae Soo already has a lot going on her plate than any other character on the show. She is a modern person stuck in medieval times, a court lady stuck between multiple princes, a court lady caught in schemes of people above her, stuck helplessly in love with people she cannot be with. Yeah, it's safe to say what she's essentially playing here is a losing game. It's a game she cannot win, nor is it a game that allows her to make any moves. Because unlike what most viewers, including myself, assumed in the beginning, things would not have changed if she became more "ruthless".

Hae Soo's position in the game of thrones

As mentioned above, her position in the game of thrones cannot be through an official position. She cannot scheme and bribe servants easily like the royals do, because, at the end of the day, she herself is a servant. From the position of a servant, she can only influence others and give her words and advice. The closest she can ever get to being a member of the Royal family is if she settles into being one of the many women of the King. She cannot become queen and she does not have the power to be a major player in schemes.

But besides that, I have to emphasise the fact she is someone who's already been framed multiple times before with spies around the corner, watching her every move. She has been a target and she still is a target under the eyes of many and is still being closely watched. So if she were to continue to stay in the palace or resort to scheming and come up with ideas and plots to destroy others what it means is, she has far fewer chances to get away with it than others. And if she were to be caught she would be subjected to far harsher punishments than the others, because she doesn't have the power or privilege to allow her to get away with it. She has far better chances of getting caught than getting away with it, and in the most realistic scenario she would just end up supplying her enemies with what they'd been hoping from her all this time: a legit reason to punish her and kick her out of the palace.

So for her , the question of what can she do is really a question of what is allowed to do with little power and freedom she is afforded. She doesn't have the power or privilege, nor does she have the freedom to pursue her own selfish desires out of her own free will like the others in the drama. Though moonlovers is a love story and drama of political intrigue, it doesn't forget the class and unequal social structure of it times and all the characters in the show either benefit from it or are affected by it. While Queen Yoo and Yeonhwa benefit from this unequal, patriarchal system that allows them to get away with it while avoiding suspicion, Soo and Court lady Oh live a life where they keep getting crushed under it. The affection they receive from the King makes them a target of the Palace women and servants alike, while affecting their reputation and making them an easy target of many. They cannot scheme when they barely have any power to protect themselves.

So the best they could do is stay relatively calm, grounded and safe while they stick to their convictions and choices. And that's exactly what Soo does, she stays calm and grounded while sticking to her convictions and choices. She never pressures anyone to doing anything and she never compromises herself in any situation. She only ever comes close to scheming and supporting someone when it comes to So, and she does it out of love.

Hae Soo the empathetic mediator

Out of everything Hae Soo has been through, being the mediator between the princes influenced her life and position the most. It was definitely a decision she made on her own accord, but it was definitely the reason she was bought all the way from the future to this place to meditate and serve as the catalyst for the things that are about to happen.

Her empathy sets her apart from the rest of the characters. Many complain about her lack of a backbone to pursue her own selfish desires, but in my opinion, I think the position she was placed in and her instinct to help and assist others contributed to the very illness that ate her sense of self and her health away. Unlike what most others think, it's not that she lacks an indomitable spirit or a sense of judgement and practicality, it's just that position she was placed on consumed her and destroyed the fiery and free spirit that she once possessed. That is why in the later parts of the drama she appears to be weak, unresponsive and almost characterless.

The weight of her position and the constant unrelenting demands it took coupled with the guilt and trauma and the blame that was always placed on her put her in a state of emotional numbness and withdrawal. I've seen people use this state of her being to cite or argue about how useless or weak she is as a character. The thing is, this is basically a trauma response to everything she's experienced in the palace. From the heartbreak, loss, bullying, torture to the constant pressure she has to face living every day in the palace, it's clear that it has taken a toll on her, causing her to burn out and break down. The weight of the burdens she has to carry is boundless, as since she is the mediator, she also has to carry the emotional burdens of others she cares about, causing her to pent up frustration to the point it becomes a life-threatening illness.

This is what Court lady Oh meant when she asked Soo if she could survive between two princes. Because being a mediator is essentially being the rope that is used in a tug of war between the princes, and she can never properly pick a side or a stance without facing the pull or force from the other side. When she picks So's side, Wook and Jung accuse her of favouritism, when she picks Jung and Wook's side So accuses her of, you guessed it, favouritism. But when she refuses to pick a side, she gets accused of not picking a side. It's pretty clear that whatever she does or chooses, she will always face consequences. For her, there are very few benefits to reap and little to gain. At the end of the day, no one can truly understand the pressure and precarious position she is in because they only see her from the outside. Her struggle is more psychological and internal. Unfortunately, this affects the relationships she has with the princes, most notably with So and Wook, as both of them perceive her mediator status as an act of betrayal.

Hae Soo the victim of royal greed and hypocricy

As I mentioned before, Hae Soo was brought her to accomplish something that people in Goryeo could not achieve. I mentioned how she's been bought here to be exploited and used. The thing is, as a modern soul involved in medieval court politics, her end was always destined to be tragic. There's a scene in ep 18 Jimong says this.

What he's essentially saying is this : Your selfishness will be the cost of everything that follows because of it.

So basically, according to Jimong, Hae Soo cannot afford to be selfish.

But the thing is, she is never acknowledged for her selfless efforts either and has nothing to gain from that too. So, she cannot be selfish but will gain nothing if she sacrifices herself for a bigger purpose.So at the end of the day, her choice is between what has the least tragic outcomes.

Based on what I've said above, from her position as a court lady to her role as a mediator, it is clear that she will never have the benefits and the privileges that other characters in the show might have most because, at the end of the day, she is a fish out of water. No one asks Yeonhwa, Yo or even So to be less selfish and "give up on things. Instead, they are encouraged to pursue their selfish interests.

But people will also never acknowledge her efforts or empathise with her struggle because doing so hurts their pride and exposes their mistreatment towards her. The people I'm referring to are of course the royals, who are keen to blame her and accuse her as the reason of everything that has happened in the palace. In both cases, both Jimong and the Royals hold her to a moral standard that they don't hold themselves to. Yeonhwa easily accuses her of warning her brother and betraying him while she literally did the same thing in a calculated manner while being fully self-aware and choosing that path. Yo willingly schemed, belittled and killed his brothers but blamed her for fixing Wang So's scar. They clearly made their own choices but they refuse to face the consequences for it. And each time it's always Hae Soo that is forced to bear the brunt of it.

And whenever she does something worthwhile it's always treated with envy and suspicion. Primarily, because the fact that a court lady is moving the palace is a threat to the social hierarchy in itself. But the fact that her mere presence and involvement in things forces them to grapple with the truth and the consequences they refuse to face is enough of a threat. So of course, they resort to blaming and lashing out at her because it's the easier thing to do.

And hence, as long as she lives in the Palace, she will fall victim to the double standards placed on her, while being constantly asked to give up things and do the maximum for the people who constantly abuse her. She will always live a life where she falls victim to the greed and hypocrisy of the royal family.

Even if she chose a more selfish and scheming life, besides being held accountable and poweless, she will probably be held to harsher standards than the others and will be blamed and punished.

This is why I think it's better for her to be selfless because while she gains nothing, she at least has a clean record. And her enemies don't have much ammunition left.

Going back to the discussion of "why the audience failed to understand her", I will say that this is not an attack or criticism against anyone of a different opinion. It's certainly a bit emotionally charged and is the result of my exasperation with the amount hate her character gets on the internet.

The thing is, her character is complex but she is not difficult to understand.To understand her character you just need to try to see things from her perspective, but as I was skimming and reading through way too many pages and blog posts dedicated to Hae Soo on the internet, I found that there were many who designated her character to be too "weak" or too "dumb" without even giving her the benefit of the doubt. The reason for titiling this post on how the "audience failed to understand her" is to analyse why many still refuse to give her the benefit of the doubt.

As I've mentioned above, most of the stories we see on screen is geared around rooting for the character who succeeds or "wins".

In those stories, there’s usually an objective and an obstacle, and the plot revolves around how the leads overcome them and “win”. They are usually given traits that are positive and make them “likable”.Especially if it’s a female character, there’s always a love line involved, which leads them to be put under the microscope and be judged for both the love line and the way they overcome the obstacles, thus having a double standard of judgement and perfection imposed on them. The bottom line is, a female character is only considered to be a “strong female lead” if she wins against the odds and achieves both love and power.

There’s this underlying expectation that asks them to play this role of a feminine, supportive lover in love and this practical, hard-headed ruthless pursuer of goals/ambition together all at once.And if the character ends up losing one of those or both, she’s quickly labelled a damsel in distress or a “weak character”.It’s like to be a “strong female lead” you have to win on both counts.But the thing is, this specific requirement , besides narrowing down the possibilities of exploring more complex characterisation, also makes it impossible for these characters to be vulnerable or flawed. Because their “strength” is linked their ability to achieve and remain undefeated.

And this pursuit of extreme perfection on both counts turns into this sort of trope and cliche and it leads to the audience having a bunch of expectations and fixed idealisms of how a “strong woman” should be, which is essentially the opposite of “weakness”. But the thing is, the concept of strength and weakness is quite abstract to begin with, and there's different strengths and weaknesses and there are different definitions and different measures of it.

But the truth is , years of commercialisation of this strong female lead trope has also led to the strong female persona becoming a trope. Usually a "strong female lead" without much substance is simply written to win and overcome a certain obstacle. She is usually "not like other girls" and is not into the typical feminine stuff, she is headstrong and brave , and is smart enough to save herself and throw in a smart punchline here and there.Besides, she very likely checks all the boxes that is considered attractive and "interesting" ,be it being funny or ambitious. What she doesn't have however is any noticeable character flaw or depth and contradictions that you would find in a real person. And though this is apparent , people find it easy to root for her because she ends up winning in the end.

The problem with these expectations, it sets a precedent in stone. Both for how characters behave in the story and how female characters are viewed in general. There's this expectation for female characters to fit into either of these two dichotomies: Either the '"strong female lead" or the naive "girl next door/damsel in distress".

This is why when characters like Hae Soo, people are so divided and she ends up being so misunderstood, with a pile of hate along her way. Hae Soo at her core is a complex individual who fits both into the definition of a strong female lead and the damsel in distress.Sure,she may not be your typical determined ,smart mouthed and organised who's effortlessly intelligent and always wins but at she's not the pliable, uncharacteristic predictable female lead who's purely a reactive figure dependent on other characters and circumstances to drive the plot and save her either.

In essence, she is a complex character with noticeable flaws, that technically posses traits of both "damsel in distress" and " strong female lead" as she's written to be real person than to fit into a wish fulfilling trope.Years of commercialisation and creating "girl boss" characters has sort of given more legitimacy to these strong female characters and have led to the assumption that these characters are infact, the true blueprint for more strong female characters to come.

However, it should be noted that this glorification of the unbeatable women is grounded in trivializing femininity and feminine traits and internalized misogyny. It focuses on simply defeating everything and becoming "stronger" , which has often allowed writers to simply write off any traumatic incident ,(be it muder, childhood trauma or most famously,sexual assault) the character goes through as some sort of initiation process they go through in order to become “stronger”.

If I were to give the audience the benefit of the doubt, there certainly should've been more than twenty episodes to explore the nuance of every character they want.

However, when it comes to analysing characters , it is also essential to take their circumstances into context. A lot of hate towards Hae Soo or other female characters in popular culture always is the result of people attempting to either put female characters into boxes or judge them based on their actions rather attempting to understand their position and perspective.

I'm not sure if its the result of internalized misogyny or the commonality of cliches and tropes in popular culture (or both) but what i've noticed is people love to put female charecters into boxes and then they hate\judge them for it.

And besides being written to fit into boxes, she is almost always written to be likable and wish fulfilling within the limits of that said trope. A good girl must be good but not too boring, a bad girl must be interesting but not crazy and smart girl must be smart but not too smart than the other characters in the show. And they must always have a love interest that they prove that they are always capable of being a loving partner. In case they dont have such a love interest, they will very likely be a side character.Without much change, for quite long, female characters on screen have always been judged and narrowly defined by their romantic pursuits and the “type” of female character they are written to be.

Also, a lot of hate towards Hae Soo also comes from the widely popular notion that she wasn’t a “good enough” partner to Wang So and blaming her for literally everything that happened in the game of thrones even though many characters are far more corrupt and complicit in the tragic outcomes of the power struggle. I believe this is because , besides not being the ideal romantic partner that stays together with the man she loves , she is also not the female character that the audience can vicariously live through to experience and express their love towards their favourite male lead. Sometimes when people like a male character too much , they put their expectations on the female characters to give them a romantic fantasy which involves her reacting to the male lead character exactly the way they would react. This is why many people complain about “not being able to understand her”.

Personally, this is why I find a character like Hae Soo to be so refreshing and likeable. To be contradictory, rather than a female character who is perfect, I quite like the idea of female character who is flawed and vulnerable. A female character who is not solely defined by an agenda or relationship, but has both of those and is complex , flawed , vulnerable and authentic is more definitive of well written , fully fleshed out character who makes her own choices, with or without regards to popular opinion.

Rather than a character who is behind her times , I think she is ahead. A lot of the hate besides internalised misogyny , biased expectations and the constant categorisation of female characters comes from the fact that she is not written to be wish-fulfilling character. A major expectation that contributes to the skewed /biased writing of female characters is the wish fulfilment attached to their likability/worth.

People expect female characters to fulfill atleast one of their wishes, be it winning or romance. A female character (like Hae Soo) who doesn’t win or achieve a happy ending is instantly casted of as worthless or “bad writing “. To them she is not a capable heroine simply because she is not worth rooting for.

This however begs the question that while she may not worth rooting for , is she however , worth the sympathy ? The reason I’ve written this tediously long post examining the circumstances that stopped her from getting what she deserved and analysing the various reasons that led to the audience hating on her hard is that when looking at many posts commenting on her character is that a lot of them fixated on hating on her without giving even the slightest benefit of the doubt. Not many posts that were critical of her tried to understand her character or circumstances and that is the thing that got me thinking .

I guess in a way it's a question of why character likability and their sympathetic outlook go hand in hand, especially for a female character, in order to gain sympathy they must be liked. Unlikable female characters are often targets for misogyny and vitriol , and it's that since they're unlikable, they can't be sympathized with.

But the thing is , unlikablity isn't limited to a particular definition. A character can be branded as unlikable under various circumstances. And sometimes it can be just that they don't act or react and make a choice that's not fan favourite, be it in romance or winning. Especially if that choice is self destructive, then it has a less chance of being forgiven,most notably in female characters. At the end of the day ,It's absolute truth that self destructive male characters will easily be forgiven more than female characters.Especially put in a romantic context with a fan favourite male lead .

This in my mind , poses as a dilemma because while I've heard people say it's up to the writer to properly flesh out a character, I think it's very likely that tropes and prejudices that we've been socialised into internalizing do influence the interpretation of characters and cause a widely different interpretations than intended.Sometimes, it can prevent us from empathising and reaching a full understanding of the character and their circumstances . So I guess the dilemma/or question that I have is , should it be to the writers or the audience to challenge this perception?

Personally I think it’s a two way street and we can’t leave it all to the writers to keep challenging the concept of a character because especially in kdramas and television, audience wish fulfillment plays a huge role as they are often taken into consideration. Even When Moonlovers was airing , many scenes were edited and scenes of Hae Soo were cut to accommodate more scenes of other characters and lead actors. So the truth is , what audience expect or react often influences the way a script is written.

And hence I think it’s possible that the reason Why many characters resemble a trope is because of the favourable reactions towards it . So when a character like Hae Soo, who isn’t written to achieve a fan favourite outcome or has self preservation as her top priority enters, people either struggle to understand her or hate her for not acting or achieving what they want or expect from her. She is new and is like a puzzle they don’t want to solve .

However , we should consider and be open to the fact that sometimes , stories aren’t meant to achieve a grand or happy ending and characters aren’t for the audience to cheer over . Sometimes we need something challenging and questionable or heartbreaking. And in stories like that, rather than rooting for the character or outcome, I think it’s better to understand , empathise and reflect on the story or characters involved. I think that’s the point of it. I always thought moonlovers was one of the stories , with the point of it being not who wins everything or gets what they wanted but rather an exploration of how people make choices and deal with them. How they reflect on it and make decisions that affect others and really, question the point of it all, from power to life.

So the point of understanding the drama is to understand the characters, not hate them or sympathise with them in a level where they seem to do no wrong. Doing this will make this drama seem more confusing and characters hard to understand because this drama unlike others is not designed to live up to expectations.

Sometimes when people say they want a character to develop, they want them to change completely and act in a way that eases their expectations. But with Hae Soo, as so many people hated on her / blamed her from the get go , I don’t see people instantly liking her character even if she changes to fill their expectations because they already hold grievances against her for not acting the way they wanted or “loving Wang So” as much “she should”. The only way to love and understand her character is to love her the way she is .

People pick sides and paint one character as good who’s so innocent and is only capable of doing the right thing / being the voice of reason while the other side is painted as evil / dumb and undeserving of the male lead and thus deserves everything bad happening to them .This at the end of the day is damaging because, especially in a relationship, no one is a saint and no one is truly a winner . Even if they leave the partner and find someone else, the personal issues that they have not fixed will crop up again .And a show like moon lovers can never be fully understood or gotten over if u don’t understand each characters struggle and view it like like it’s a good guy/ bad guy story where people win or get the “karma” they deserve.

In conclusion, I think we need to give characters the benefit of the doubt before we judge them so callously . Because sometimes such judgements can create misconceptions about the character and the story. Years of watching the same tropes play out in media have allowed us to hold certain expectations for characters and when they don't meet that expectations , it triggers a popular outcry.Especially in female characters, because for long they always have been written for wish fulfilling purposes. Most think they way treat or perceive fictional characters is harmless but the thing is, these perceptions mirror what's common in society. If we are comfortable harassing characters for failing to live up to our notions, then it means we still have a long way to go to when it comes to overcoming our own pre conceived notions in real life.And as long as we stick to the same tropes over and over and expect the same happy ending , the stories we consume will remain the same and to open up the venues for more different stories and drama, we should open our mind to the possibility that things aren’t always meant to progress the way we expect it to.

#kdrama #hae soo #mlshr #iu #moon lovers #wang so #scarlet heart ryeo #moonlovers:scarlet heart ryeo #haesoodeservedbetter #scarletheartryeo #Scarlet heart ryeo sixth anniversary #Had this in my drafts for long #just my honest take #so underrated #moon lovers scarlet heart ryeo #lee jieun

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x-authorship-x · 1 year

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Sooo, if we're talking about Shisui pairings, would you be willing to talk about Shisui/Tobirama? You've got two fics on it, so clearly there's something about it that appeals to you, and I'd love to hear about it! I know in your Eye of the Beholder fic you have a little bit of Tobirama foaming at the mouth trying to figure out how Shisui out sped him and then being exasperated at how he fucked up his body to keep fighting (and being startled at how friendly and chatty Shisui was?), which is a great dynamic. So you've already got me hooked on it, I'd just like to hear your more in depth analysis/reasoning/ideas if you have any 😁

Hey, Anon!

So, I've just come from answering another ask wondering about my Shisui/Tobirama, so I absolutely CAN talk about Tobirama!

Far from considering Shisui as interchangeable with Kagami in this pairing, I think they work really well for a bunch of reasons!

Let's look at the context 😌

Shisui: (at risk of sounding like a broken record)

Genius, in a hands-on and not braggy way (he's not mad scientist like Tobirama but he's not a Genius of Hard Work like Gai either, it's all about the subtle cleverness and the perfection of the simple into the inescapable)

Skilled, he is THE fastest Shinobi of all time

Resourceful, he literally was like "Undetectable Unbreakable Reality Eyes OR Speed lane?? NO QUESTION" and yeeted his Mangekyou off to one side lol

Loyal, he has no hint of the illusive 'Curse of Hatred' even if he is unfortunately afflicted with 'Melodramatic Uchiha Bitch' (why, why, why the cliffffff)

Shisui is, despite what I just said, hard to fluster and he has social skills (so many Tobirama ships are Uchiha flailing in his direction whilst he's trying to be productive 🤣) as well as professionalism and A Life™ (hence why, in New Leaf, I think Kagami& Shisui's bloodline is most likely through Hikaku)

Shisui loves peace more than his clan, he loves konoha more than his clan, but he will defend his people even if they hate him for it

He fucks around with space, time, reality, and jutsu

He will do anything for those he considers important (even abstract constructs like Peace and Konoha) and he's amazing with kids, he is that parenting meme where he's carrying Sasuke out of the ocean by his foot and laughing whilst simultaneously cuddling shy Itachi in a blanket 🤭

Tobirama:

He's a genius mad scientist, his goals outweigh the ethnics (did anyone try the zombie resurrection? I thought the zombie resurrection was lovely) as well as coming up with, presumably, most of the techniques in the Not-So-Forbidden-Scroll Naruto stole

He's emotional (impatience and disgust are emotions, Tobirama ffs) and he feels deeply (why work through grief when you can try to cheat death?) and he was able to devote himself so much to Hashirama's dream as well as sacrifice himself for his beloved students, one of whom was Uchiha Kagami

His Hokage tenure is a pretty divisive topic in this fandom but you can't tell me that Hashirama was writing laws and planning sewage systems 🥴 Tobirama was practical AND detail-oriented, a good leader and a good planner

He loves children, if he just wanted to instruct people then he'd do lectures and rewrite all the handbooks but he takes on personal and young kids to nurture them, and he might be younger but he's more of the older brother to Hashirama as well as Kawarama and Itama, the only people to actually be older siblings to him are Touka and Mito

He's adaptable, he didn't believe in peace because he didn't trust that it wouldn't be a trap and wipe out his clan. Tobirama was fixated on the continued survival of his clan, even though he knew it was a pointless cycle of death and destruction, but he was able to flip to building and maintaining the village, something many others couldn't do. Tobirama, who had been the face of Senju viciousness all his life, was able to become the Nidaime and bolster peace and unity...

He might craft insane new Jutsu but nothing beats the stunning simplicity of water manipulation

Tobirama is quiet and thoughtful but, whilst he is more concerned with his own work etc, he isn't callous or oblivious, he's too well trained for that, and his bluntness is reassuring because lying is a different skill and purpose

So, together... ✨

Shisui is fast enough, physically and mentally, to keep up with Tobirama as well as make Tobirama have to chase him a good amount of the time... Whereas Tobirama is resourceful and determined enough to follow Shisui through any trial as equals, something unprecedented for either of them. Shisui can be quiet and easygoing and calm, which suits Tobirama well, and Tobirama can also be argumentative and nosey to match Shisui's inquisitive nature!

Skills wise, I love that the mind-bogglingly simple perfection of Shisui's Shunshin is enough to have Tobirama wringing himself in knots over undervaluing the smallest movements and uses of chakra, once he finishes being pissed he will be enamoured. Shisui, in turn, is from a world where jutsu creation has kinda died! The Uzumaki are wiped out, the Uchiha have regressed into their compound, the geniuses like Minato are dead... You just have Kakashi, nicking techniques left and right, and bloodlines growing more and more extinct because of the Bloody Mist etc etc etc... So not only is the Warring Clans Era filled with long-dead legends but it also has Tobirama, the OG Big Name in invention, who does what no one Shisui had ever met before could do.

Also, in the case where Shisui spills the beans about the future, the two of them will be the perfect dream team to make Konoha and, frankly, the whole system far better than the first time around. Tobirama knows how things develope, what Jutsu he's made in the future, and can tailor his processes so much more efficiently. Shisui, with Tobirama (and, therefore, Hashirama) can safeguard in a similar way. They basically align so nicely, both technically and ideologically, that a platonic or professional partnership is also very much ideal.

Romantically, Shisui and Tobirama have the balance to be very fulfilling for each other. They are well suited in energy and their innovative mentalities, they are both hardened killers with tenderness/softness reserved for younger generations/the future, and they are both ridiculously beautiful lol.

Shisui and Tobirama are also self destructive in similar ways, Shisui in that he will hurt himself (rip his fucking eye out 🤦) in the heat of the moment whilst Tobirama won't care if Hashirama hates him so long as he successfully protects him (like killing Izuna, which must've hurt Hashirama's dreams for peace but Tobirama would see as a worthwhile price to take out a huge threat). Together... Tobirama would like 'a plan that damages you??? Not a viable plan, idiot!' and Shisui would be like 'sacrifice your reputation etc to protect those you love? I would never fall of it!' and they'd live happily ever after 🤭

Also...

The Nidaime was one of the sources of Uchiha resentment in the village, he gave them the Police Force which caused problems, and he taught Shisui's would-be murderer, Danzo

Shisui, to match, is an Uchiha who is literally Tobirama's worst nightmare 🤣 a Mangekyou that is undetectable, unbreakable, and he wouldn't even know it was impacting him, regardless of his chakra control or how good of a sensor he is

So it's funny and ironic too 🤣

Hope you enjoyed this rant, Anon, have a great day/night ✨

#torship #torship talks #ask #anon #shisui #tobirama #shisui/tobirama

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decepti-thots · 7 months

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re: meta again. first, thank you for the long answer! you have a lot of interesting points, e.g. how fandom spaces influence how you interact with media: my first fandom space was restricted to teenagers who mostly knew nothing about media analysis (and it was also animanga haha), and then I moved onto tumblr, where - in my memory - most users were slightly older teenagers but still didn't know much about media analysis. there probably was meta somewhere (apparently on LJ?), but I didn't see (or notice?) a lot of it. which possibly also was because I changed fandoms a lot more quickly, and I feel like many others did, too. there's a book fandom where five years ago, the general sentiment about an antagonist was 'well fuck him' and now people write extensive posts on why he did what and what that means for the story and why it mirrors the protagonists arc etc, which maybe means that sometimes fandoms need time to get past the initial excitement of new things to give more attention/time to meta?

I very much agree that tumblr makes interactions/discussions harder. especially re: reblogs - its so easy for someone to disagree with you in a reblog and some of their followers to take that as a hint to hate on you - I've seen this happen mostly related to "shipping the wrong things", but why wouldn't it happen for drawing the "wrong" conclusions in a meta post? I feel like the general tumblr user is older than they were 10 years ago so maybe I should hope that they've grown up as well and are more reasonable about this to be fair

what I also noticed regarding the book fandom and TF is that TF fans - depending on your specific bubble probably - seem to be more aware that writing meta is a thing, because they're more likely to call it that.

re: elitism - it's important to me that the things I was referring to can feel elitist, not that they are, if the distiction makes sense? maybe it also wasn't the best/fairest choice of words, sorry. the sentiment isn't meant towards e.g. the people complaining about headcanons that have become accepted in the fandom but have zero relation to canon. its more frustration that theres seemingly infinite canon material and you can't really join any conversation without interacting with a good chunk of it, while (seemingly) everyone else has already done that already.

and finally, wonder if part of who writes meta and who doesn't is fandom "socialization"; there seem to be a few people for whom it appears easy to express their thoughts online, and then a much larger amount of lurkers who don't, and I've never really figured out the cause.

god tumblr does really let me put as much text as I want here, I'm a bit sorry for the long message. If you have any further thoughts I'd be happy to hear them but no pressure

First of all: no apologies for the long message! I love it, I will put my thoughts under a cut for everyone's dashes but we LOVE an in depth fandom meta-meta discussion in this household. I started this blog to RAMBLE and rambling is WELCOME my friend.

You make an EXCELLENT point about how longevity can influence fandoms here, anon. Especially for fandoms where there isn't a constant drip-feed of NEW canon, I absolutely think fandoms living on and people going back and re-engaging the source material to look for new ways to engage it can gradually make meta a larger part of the fannish space sometimes. (To give my own book fandom example, I was on the periphery of book!Good Omens fandom back in the day, and the amount of time people had spent with just that one single book meant that more and more discussion of the ways you could read and work with that one book meant there was some very in-depth meta going on there.) (…as you can imagine, the last few years have been a hell of a wild time for me with the show fandom becoming the Hot New Major Fandom, LMAOOOO.)

There's definitely also something there about the old "if someone I follow clowns on a person, my (para)social relationship with them means I feel like I'm doing a social faux-pas by not choosing a side" you mention here too. Tumblr really makes visible the idea of social networks in a way I have to admit I overall find uhhh. Kind of not great. "If I follow someone who follows someone my mutual hates, do I need to perform my support of someone here", that kind of thing. (Answer: no, that is some Panopticon shit, bring in the Foucault. I am only half joking.) Even over an objectively inane Transformers headcanon take, it's the social mechanism more than the content that brings in the pressure I think. Again. Web 2.0 wants everything pushed at everyone all the time to encourage More Interaction, and reducing any sense of wider social circles being removed from you personally is a part of that I think. It's all equal on The Endless Timeline, innit.

I see what you mean about the "feels like" distinction on elitism, anon, now you lay that out- that makes sense. I do think TF fandom is sometimes a bit of a minefield in terms of like, even within certain subdivisions of canon there's so MUCH stuff (and the fandom has, IMO, a bad habit of not bothering to decide what is more or less "useful" in conversations; sometimes tertiary material is… you know. Tertiary. LOOKING AT ALIGNED FANDOM). I think those of us who are sometimes a bit more "canon completionist" do need to approach these things in terms of like- take IDW1 fandom. If someone posts meta about MTMTE based on just material from MTMTE, approaching that in good faith and not going "well it's in continuity with phase one, and THIS phase one comic says [xyz]", but instead seeing it as a perspective that takes that one text as a complete thing in itself? (And maybe considering how that perspective and how it differs from one which looks at the whoooole canon is interesting, rather than deficient, in its differences of opinion.) There are folks who get very snotty about people doing that in a way that is, at the very least, unproductive. (And the folks bringing in their Extensive Lore Knowledge TM by whining stuff from other continuities contradicts a take on a different continuity are just uhhh. Annoying. Those people can just Stop, Please, lmao.) I think understanding that different approaches to what "canon" even is can be interesting rather than something to be "corrected" might go some way to making it feel less… intimidating? Alienating? For folks working with what they like.

As for the confidence in sharing opinions thing… I can only speak for myself but uh. If I have a personal flaw it is unwarranted overconfidence, not insecurity, haha. Let me put it that way. I do think that cultivating a confidence in the idea "I have my own personal tastes, and those tastes are idiosyncratic and do not need to be compared to other peoples' taste, and they are Valid TM" is a skill to be honed and one I think is worth honing, and I think may be a big thing here from my anecdotal observations. I find that many people in fandom don't have a lot of confidence in the idea that you can express not just an argument for "objective" (lol) "quality" but a sense of personal taste? (This is not unique to fandom, at all, but I think fandom has a lot of it, if that makes sense.) Especially because often the things fandom centres around lack cultural prestige. It's why an appeal to being Real Literature TM is the go-to argument for why fanfiction is "acceptable". I think a similar thing can be true of opinions; to let go of the urge to have everyone agree with you 100% of the time and to be "proven" right, you have to feel confident enough to sit in subjectivity and be like. My opinions may be subjective, but that's fine. And you do have to cultivate that! But I think that's where the "I can express an opinion and not feel destroyed if someone flat out rejects it and I can't even disprove their argument" trick kinda lies, maybe. And maybe meta is easier if you've already internalized that, so the possibility people will be like "nope" is less scary?

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hawkogurl · 5 months

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I am bad at specifics (as you can see) so do you have anything about Peter mutation I think in the movie most of it was a dream sequence, but I was wondering if you had any thoughts on it as well as Peter and Harry fighting when Peter had Venom I think Peter was lying on the same couch he placed Normans body on. Finally the Picture of all three of them skating.

Just got off work so pardon my exhaustion

In order

1-the spider bite and transformation for Peter is a fairly obvious symbol for adulthood and coming of age. I think choosing Tobey Maguire, a fairly baby faced actor, was smart here, because they got to utilize the dichotomy of having Peter look very young and nonthreatening and for lack of a better word “innocent” to have him seem more on the, for back of a better wording, earlier side of the child to adult coming of age arc. Whereas post bite, he’s physically stronger and visibly more muscular, something that can often be used to symbolize a character maturing in a lot of media that shows younger male characters aging.

Whats more, on the note of the spider bite as coming of age, it’s the catalyst for a significant amount of emotional development. After that point, through enduring extremely severe consequences for what seem like small mistakes (Uncle Ben), Peter is forced to mature very rapidly. As a result he becomes more empathetic, kinder, and iconically more responsible. As a result of the bite, Peter goes through the experiences that shape him into an adult over the course of the trilogy. A more basic analysis but I think it gets the point across especially for a topic I haven’t really thought about in depth.

But a little known fact about this plotline is how much more explicitly it’s executed in that one script with Leonardo DiCaprio as Peter. (This script is AWFUL by the way. It’s so bad.) In that, Peter has some wild ass dreams right after the spider bite and uh. Wakes up with some ~white sticky stuff~ attaching him to his sheets! That’s right baby, we got a wet dream metaphor for no fucking reason.

2-the scene in the movie did not have Peter laying on the lounge Norman’s body has been placed on, that was an alternate scene that was filmed and used in the directors cut. Wish they’d used it though! I personally find this one fascinating because I think it’s a good example of how symbioted up Peter just immediately slid into wanting to hurt Peter. I think it’s a pretty interesting way to show the symbiote intensifying some vindictiveness that’s present in Peter’s character once you peel the layers away, especially novelization Peter.

Like… in the novels this is the line.

Telling Harry he’s unloveable is a bit above what he said in the movies. It’s awful and sadistic and I love it and think it should have been in them. I think that comment about Norman in particular is wonderful because it rings true. I know that Raimi Norman has been sort of aggressively woobified and stripped of responsibility for being a classist misogynistic child abuser by our post no way home world, but he’s a bastard and I could probably write thousands of words explaining how Harry being unable to process and accept that Norman was a neglectful and abusive father contributes to why he’s so insistent on pursuing revenge even once he knows Norman was a maniacal mass murderer who nearly murdered both himself and MJ.

Another thing that I find interesting here is like… it’s remarkably easy to argue Peter was absolutely trying to cause Harry physical harm, perhaps to the degree of actually just trying to kill him. He threw a fucking bomb at Harry for crying out loud! This ends up giving me this odd impressions that, especially with him recovering from third degree burns across half his body in about 72 hours, Harry is extremely durable. Human crash test dummy. Makes more sense that Harry seemed to get a concussion from a head injury that should have snapped his neck earlier in the third movie once you take this into account.

Also there’s a crucifixion shot in this scene which I think is wonderful. Harry the hanged man tarot card real.

My absolute favorite part of this scene is an instance of the classic raimi trilogy trope: Harry trying to pretend like he’s attracted to women always makes him act like a goddamn space alien.

3-So we don’t really know a ton about this photo. It’s likely this was taken between sm1 and sm2, especially based on the state of Harry’s hair color and texture. However, one thing that destroys me here is that the cracked glass when Harry picks it up is dividing Harry and Peter. Originally, the scene with the butler isn’t in here and Harry only found the photo and that’s what motivated him to go help. I wish they’d kept it in there. It’s more powerful if it’s motivated internally. Also, see prior comments on why Harry clung to revenge so deeply. Harry would have been making the choice to defend the people who truly loved him with his life instead of mindlessly pursuing revenge he didn’t want because he thought it would make his abuser happy. Also would have been better because it would nail home the idea that Harry wasn’t an evil or malicious person, he was just like, hurting and severely mentally ill and probably actively experiencing psychosis for most of that from the looks of it. Using the butler sucked.

#harryposting #harry osborn #raimiverse #raimi trilogy #spider man #peter parker #spiderman

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psychewritesbs · 1 year

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Hola capaa~~ argentina y entusiasta de Clamp, JJK y Sonny Boy sos todo❣️❣️

I absolutely love all your psych analysis!! I was wondering if you’d like to write a little about Gojo’s relationship with Megumi, like what he views him as. I know there’s a lot of discourse about whether megumi views him as a father/brother/uncle/mentor/guardián but I’d like to read about Gojo’s probable view.

Saludos de CABA❤️

Hola hola! Mucho gusto ♥!

Dear CABAnon... I just need you to know that your ask is an amazing question that required so much fun and multilayered brainrot.

So thank you for the ask and thank you so much for your kind comments. I will write in English in case anyone else wants to read this word vomit but will say hello in Español at the end of this post.

I'm also so glad you're a CLAMP enthusiast too because I'm going to drop clamptastic moments to illustrate points. My heart rejoices in knowing you'll get it.

So without further ado...

Gojo + Megumi. Let's brainrot...

Also... I may or may not have written a whole analysis post only to realize that I wasn't necessarily answering your question so I ended up deleting most of what I had written.

Hence the delay...

Ok procrastination, attention deficit disorder, and my overall slow temperament might have had something to do with it too. So thank you as well for your patience! 😂

ANY-WAYS!

I've written about my thoughts on this relationship from Megumi's perspective in the past, but I feel like my thoughts could use some more nuance given everything we've seen of this dynamic as of late.

What I'll start by saying is that Gojo isn't a character I spend a lot of time brain rotting about, so I may only scratch the surface of my interpretation of him, or perhaps even mischaracterize him a bit *gasp*.

That to say that in order to answer your question, we kind of have to peel back the layers of this dynamic.

So let's start by taking an in-depth look at Gojo:

Gojo Satoru is human af

Ok so... names have meaning in JJK, right?

So given how popular he is in the JJK-fandom, I am assuming it is common knowledge that his name, and the kanji in his name, alludes to an enlightened being.

In other words, Gojo is a bodhisattva--an enlightened being who is able to enter Nirvana but delays doing so out of compassion for others and their suffering.

But here's the thing...

“One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.”

Carl Jung

What is interesting about Gojo is that, despite his exalted spiritual status as the personification of a bodhisattva, he is actually VERY human.

For one, in relational dynamic to others he keeps others at a safe distance. Like that's literally part of how his Cursed Technique manifests, which is a beautiful example of how Cursed Technique can be a metaphor for the sense of self.

Second, Gojo CARES SO MUCH AND SO DEEPLY, it is actually shown how his emotional entanglements are one of his main weaknesses.

Now, for context, consider that emotional entanglements are a form of self-related attachment and that, in very simple terms, the goal of enlightenment is to transcend attachments that might hold the sense of self back from Nirvana.

Third, Gojo is a direct product of the society he is a part of since he does carry the burden of The Strongest / The Chosen One.

It's almost like Gojo's clown externalized persona is an attempt to add some much needed comic relief to the self-definition others have given him. An attempt to lessen the heavy burden of what it means for others to think of him and define him as The Strongest.

Now, what does strength/power mean in JJK? Overwhelming sense of self which is the byproduct of self-knowledge.

So I headcanon that it is precisely because he knows he is The Strongest, that, true to his character archetype as a bodhisattva, Gojo seeks to alleviate the suffering of others. Thus, his actions in an attempt to alleviate suffering are the result of his nature.

And here's the fun twist: Gojo seeks to do so through "power".

Now let's add Megumi to the mix.

Issai shujo to tomo ni

To answer your question, in addition to understanding Gojo's nature as a compassionate being driven by his attachment to others, we have to consider his actions and motivations.

Gojo bringing Megumi under his wing is an interesting rabbit hole for many reasons.

So let's start with the idea behind the theme issai shujo to tomo ni (“together with all sentient beings”—regardless of what hell one might fall into).

Consider that "it’s not enough for a bodhisattva of the Mahayana to just uphold the precepts. There are times when you have to break them, too. It’s just that when you do, you have to do so with the resolve of also being willing to accept whatever consequences might follow" (source).

To put it in JJK-words, how is Gojo abusing his position of power to further his own agenda?

Basically, it's a major red flag in terms of how Gojo might initially see Megumi as a means to pushing his own agenda for seeking power in order to fulfill his function as bodhisattva.

It's just that Gojo, as the adult in the dynamic, consciously and willingly manipulated Megumi into something that was beneficial for the both of them.

In other words, this is a red flag because Gojo, the adult, acted like a child and gave Megumi, the child, an adult choice.

This might loosely remind you of this fantastic meme and the context behind it:

(Source: noa-ciharu's fantastic talent for shitposting).

I just wanted to use the meme because it's about someone taking advantage of someone else's lack of psychological maturity.

As a side note, this also made me realize just how much JJK is exploring the idea that people's vulnerabilities get exploited by those who are in positions of power.

The thing is that Gojo could have just as easily ignored Megumi or reported him to the authorities. But he didn't do that, did he?

Instead he took Megumi under his wing and groomed him to become a tool that could help him change the Jujutsu-scheme of things. You could look at this and think "that's awful!" and you can also look at this and think "yes, it's shady, AND Gojo was also looking to help Megumi maximize his highest destiny and potential." More on this in a bit.

This is relevant because it says a lot about Gojo's "humanity" and the lengths he will go to for the sake of his goal and desire to alleviate the suffering of others.

Again, Gojo gave Megumi a choice Megumi should not have had to make. I have a 9 year old nephew, so I'm all for giving children choices so that they can develop their own sense of self. But the choices have to be age appropriate.

In other words, the adult in the room, Gojo, anticipated and used Megumi's innocence and love for Tsumiki as leverage to manipulate a specific response from Megumi that would benefit the both of them.

Which brings us to the next layer...

Noblesse Oblige

I think that because I come from a last name De los Reyes, I LOVE and deeply resonate with this term.

It's so...

"With great power comes great responsibility."

Voltaire

This is where the rabbit hole gets fun because, were it not for Toji's last words to Gojo, Megumi and Gojo might have never crossed paths.

And is there anything more clamptastic than the idea that inevitable emotional entanglements are the result of fate bringing people together?

The question this brings up for me is... even though Toji gave Gojo the choice (here we have choice as a theme again) to do as he pleased, can we consider this to be a curse that Toji put on Gojo seeing as these were his last words to him?

So the fact that Gojo chose to follow through with Toji's last words is the stuff of tragedy given we've already seen that Gojo's weakness are his emotional entanglement to others. And now that Sukuna has taken over Megumi's body... well... should we brace for tragedy?

But I digress...

The point of this layer is to introduce the idea that perhaps Gojo is someone who fosters strength / power in others through self-knowledge, both for the sake of his own agenda, and also because of the idea behind noblesse oblige--with great power comes great responsibility.

In other words, consider Megumi's theme in the sense that it would have been a complete waste of the talent he was born with, the prized family jewel worthy of one chosen by fate, to be squandered away in a lifetime spent fighting bullies.

Did Gojo see Megumi's worth only in terms of his family's name and his Cursed Technique? I think initially that might have been the case.

There's definitively something to be said about how Jujutsu society as a whole is a microcosm for the toxic Capitalist zeitgeist that permeates our world where our worth is measured against what we can do rather than for the mere fact that we are alive.

But... that's the thing, even if Gojo, as a product of his environment who is ironically seeking to upturn the very system that gave him the power that he has... Gojo is still Gojo, and Gojo is human af.

And for someone who is as enlightened as he is...

To blind himself to this truth about himself, to keep others at a safe distance in an attempt to lessen those emotional entanglements... well, it is kind of tragic, isn't it?

My precious student

I could have literally written this section only and called it a day but like... where's the fun in not word vomitting?

I have to say that I am loving how Gege is starting to tie loose ends. Promises he made early on in the manga are starting to unfold before our eyes.

For Gojo, the Hidden Inventory arc sets the stage for seeing just how much Gojo cares and the lengths that he will go through to alleviate the suffering of others because of how deeply compassionate he is.

So there is no doubt in my mind that Gojo CARES for Megumi deeply and holds Megumi in high regard both intellectually and emotionally.

Like... even if the way he recruited Megumi can be considered shady, I personally think it's in Gojo's nature to care deeply.

As a result I personally like the idea that Gojo came to care for, know and understand Megumi deeply. I should probably open a thesaurus to find a synonym for deeply, I've used that word like 5 times already.

I also think that Gojo sees in Megumi a mirror of himself given their fate has been somewhat defined by their respective Cursed Techniques. There's actually a lot of parallels in their behavior if you look closely.

Now, one of the biggest questions in fandom has been what life was like growing up in the Fushiguro household and what it was like to grow up under Gojo's tutelage.

So I love that Gege has finally given us a sneak peek at that dynamic because it sheds light into the answer to your question.

To me the panels above might show how Gojo approached fostering Megumi's talent. I could be wrong, but I get major "let's go for a walk so I can teach you something" vibes.

And like... I can't imagine how Gojo could have possibly avoided getting attached to Megumi if he basically saw him grow up. Whether he was around every day or came and went is the stuff of head canons.

But I definitively think there's a lot of love between these two characters and that Gojo sees Megumi not just as a student whose power he needs to foster through self-knowledge, but also as a protégé that was entrusted to him.

Now... given emotional entanglement is one of Gojo's major weaknesses, it makes me wonder what Gege is going to do once he lets Gojo out of the prison realm.

It makes me wonder what lengths Gojo will go through to alleviate Megumi's suffering.

Spanglish alert!

Merci a ma chérie (@justafrenchlondoner) for being a sounding board to help me answer this loaded question. We both loved the brainrot that ensued because of it.

Finalmente...

EAAAAA! Mucho gusto CABAnon!

Así es! Soy entusiasta de clamp, JJK, y Sonny Boy! Me encanta q t gusten a ti tb! The trifecta of perfection if you ask me. Lo único differente es q soy Mexicana pero al fin de cuenta, esa diferencia importa poco :)

Espero halla podido contestar tu pregunta... jeje... con eso d q me fui por una tangente q ni al caso me tardé un poco mas de lo esperado pero la vdd disfruté mucho contestando tu pregunta.

Espero escuchar de ti y tus pensamientos al respecto d nuevo!

Saludos desde mi pedacito en el Desierto de Chihuahua, victoria la psicoloca.

#ask the mental gymnastics anime girl #god I love jujutsu kaisen #1 out of 3 asks answered #2 more to go!

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