noblessyousforgiacomo
Whose Panties Are Those?!
they/them. Autistic spectrum and selectively mute. I like comics, manga and books :).
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ART! Cassandra Cain vs. Lady Shiva
HELLO EVERYONE! It has been a while since I’ve posted new work. I practically quit at one moment, but I’m back! And my first piece is a companion piece to my LAST Cassandra piece. A few days of work and a lot of hardware issues concerning my tablet and it talking to my computer. But its sorted now. I suppose this is the Jade Canary version of Shiva from Pre-52 Birds of Prey. Whatever, enjoy!
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Happy Birthday Cassandra!!! 24 years in the running 🎊🥳.
cassandra cain by bill sienkiewicz
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They really said, "sorry hun, your not special"
The New Teen Titans #34
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no one:
oliver queen:
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📂| ARROWFAMILY READING GUIDE
Want to start reading about the Arrowfamily but don't know where to begin? Here’s a helping hand to get you started! click the carrd link below for reading guides for every Arrowfam member!
» Where can I find it?
You can find it on here » https://arrowfam.carrd.co
» What does the reading guide contains?
The carrd includes reading guides for ALL Arrowfamily members, to make it easier for new readers I separated the members in three separated categories: "core arrowfamily", "extended arrowfamily" and "elseworlds arrowfamily", the list of characters included in the carrd link (at least for now) are:
⤷ Core Arrowfamily:
• Oliver Queen/Green Arrow
• Roy Harper/Arsenal
• Dinah Lance/Black Canary II
• Connor Hawke/Green Arrow II/Hawke
• Mia Dearden/Speedy II
• Emiko Queen/Red Arrow II
⤷ Extended Arrowfamily:
• Shado
• Eddie Fyers
• Jade Nguyen/Cheshire
• Lian Harper/Cheshire Cat
• Sin Lance
• Cissie King-Jones/Arrowette
• Red Canary
⤷ Other Supporting Cast:
• Master Jansen
• Robert Queen II
• Sandra Hawke
• Dodger
• Galahad II
• Naomi Singh
• Jax
• Henry Fyff
• John Diggle
• George, the Arrow Dog
⤷ Elseworlds Arrowfamily:
• Olivia Queen/Black Canary III
• Artemis Crock/Tigress II
• Connor Lance-Queen/Green Canary
• Laurel Lance-Queen/Black Arrow
» A few notes before you start:
• Please make sure to check the "info" section of the carrd so you can understand better how it works and have a better experience browsing on it.
• Red Canary's identity has not been confirmed yet, Sin being Red Canary is just mere speculation of my part.
• The reading guides will be updated frequently as soon as the character gets a new *important* appearance, small cameos and the like will not be included.
#arrowfam#arrowfamily#reading guide#reading list#recommended reading#oliver queen#green arrow#roy harper#arsenal#red arrow#jade nguyen#chesire#speedy#mia dearden#connor hawke#dinah lance#black canary#this is a great guide y'all omg
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the fab five as a band
ref pic from pinterest
@/qurutoblover123 on ig
#fab five#theres comic art that has them basically like this#dick grayson#nightwing#donna troy#wally west#flash#kid flash#roy harper#speedy#red arrow#garth#aqualad
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from time to time i see posts saying that people act like 80s jay was an angel while he was portrayed to have anger issues even back then, and what i have to say to that is: no. it's plainly not true that jason ever had anything that could amount to be called "anger issues" in his original robin runs. he was shown to get exceptionally angry maybe twice and both of these times took place in really extreme situations. both of these times the anger was rightful and out of care. + nearing the end of his run and closely towards his death, starlin did want to make him more snappy to make him unlikable, but even then it wasn't portrayed as his natural trait; it was a result of the circumstances and his insecurity.
if you think someone getting angry when they meet a murderer of their father or when a woman is raped and killed means that they have "anger issues" then idk what to tell you. or if you think a child being a bit impulsive or irritable at times dictates their whole personality, then i really don't get your standards. especially that otherwise, jay is pretty consistently shown to be sweet, caring and preoccupied with stuff like getting an extra credit at school.
i said it before, but for me, jason's kindness is the core of his story. in his robin days, his anger comes from this place: it's a reaction to injustice and other people hurting. he never was on a truly temperamental side, not like dick. actually, let's compare him to dick quickly: dick got into vigilantism for revenge. as a kid. dick is also often shown to be more neurotic, and it seems to me like he's channeling this energy into commitment to justice. i think for jason it's the other way around: he first got into vigilantism out of sense of duty, and only when failing to protect people or directly confronted with a source of personal trauma he became angry. and i guess that's still healthy. if you don't sometimes get angry, are you paying attention?
but jason's anger post-resurrection? that's a tragedy on its own. i think it can be framed as an almost pathological reaction for him. wherever it comes from, fear or disillusionment with the world, trauma or lazarus pit– i think it's foreign to him, and that he doesn't really know what to do with it. making this kind of anger productive isn't easy, because it doesn't go away. i think it's eating him alive, and that he can barely recognise himself. he probably flinches at his own violence.
so anyway, angry jason? that's jason pushed to the extreme. jason at his rock bottom. and also jason who cares so much that he can't reconcile with how cruel the world is. i think viewing it this way rather than assuming it's his natural trait makes him a much more human and interesting character.
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Sometimes I feel frustrated seeing fans boil down Cassandra to JUST her "no one dies" mentality. Yes, Cass embodies it in a way that's even more obsessive than Bruce, but I feel like what most people leave out of posts (especially ones where they talk about how much she would hate Jason) is her compassion. Cass sees herself as every murderer she comes across. Almost her entire life, she spends trying to atone for one murder she committed as an 8 year old and to do that she stops murders from happening, but she also has a deep rooted belief that the people who commit these crimes are capable of changing who they are. Or, in the very least, understand why what they do/done is 'wrong'.
I read posts about how she would hate Jason and while I agree in some ways, I feel like there's something missing. What's missing is that why wouldn't Cass understand how Jason came to be the way he is? Someone who felt abandoned by their father's choice in allowing a murderer to run free—one who certainly isn't changing anytime soon. What's stopping Cass from knowing Jason's feelings in a way most other characters can't see because they haven't experienced it in a way that both Cass and Jason have?
Obviously this doesn't mean she is giving up on her moral code, I don't get why fandom thinks character foils can't interact together without losing some integral part of themself—the beauty of fiction is being able to create scenarios where that is possible. If you truly believe its impossible, I honestly think you might just have a really closed mindset or negate character growth as bad characterization.
Maybe its because no depiction of Cass is beaten by Batgirl 2000 and maybe because Jason's characterization is a spinning pendulum of nonsense half the time, but reducing either character to just their morality on killing alone is tasteless. People (and fictional characters by extension) are so much more complex than that.
#I might get some comments asking 'why Jason' and why not Damian or Dick or anyone else in the Batfam#and honestly? Because Jason and Cass are narrative foils I just find a story with them in it infinitely interesting#nevermind Jason's kinda shoddy parentage and believing Lady Shiva was his mother#she said no but obviously since the early 2000s this has been retconned#I'm in 3 AM brain mode so might come back to edit this#jason todd#batgirl#cassandra cain#red hood#black bat#cass cain#orphan
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What do you mean the latest villain in Nightwing’s solo was in the audience the night Dick’s parents died? Is there anyone in the DC’s universe that was NOT at this show?
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The thing about Bruce, Cass, and Jason is that they're all coming at these moral questions from different povs with their own traumas and making it into a debate about who's /right/, when one of the best parts of fiction is being able to explore ideas and stories without the weight of Real Morality, is so reductive and cruel to theircharacters. Like with Cass you can have stories about redemption and choosing to do better and how no one, not even you, is too far gone to stop. To save. To do better. With Bruce you can have how grief changes us, how a scared child can build the family he was robbed of one brick at a time, can devote his being to make sure no child is ever left with no one coming to save them again. And with Jason you can have the righteous fury of silenced victims, of killing abusers of power, of coming back from trauma furious and unforgiving and promising there will never be another you.
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I might be wrong but I figured you'd be the person to ask: Someone in a Discord server I'm in was talking about the "popular fanon idea of Cass learning ASL and sometimes preferring it to speech." And I... don't think this is fanon? Doesn't she canonically know ASL? I know she learned English and (I believe) Mandarin but I'm almost positive there are also lots of canon instances of her signing.
Okay so I'm going to split this ask into two questions:
Does Cass know American Sign Language (ASL), canonically?
Could Cass learn ASL?
The answer to #1 is no, Cass doesn't canonically know ASL to my knowledge (caveat: this does not, apparently, apply to the Young Justice cartoon universe; Cassandra Wu-San does appear to know some form of legitimate sign language). Canon!Cass, on the other hand, knows some basic signs and does use them, but it's more charades, 'loud gesturing,' and basic hand signals than it is ASL. The reasons Cass knowing ASL is such a popular fanon misperception are rather complex, but it largely comes down to two things: misunderstanding how ASL works and misunderstanding what Cass's disability actually is.
ASL isn't just some fancy hand gestures that translate one-to-one into spoken English; that would be "baby sign" or spell signing at best. ASL is a language, with all of the complex grammar, vocabulary, syntax, and sentence structure that implies. It takes years of learning and immersion to understand, learn, and utilize properly, just like any other language. Treating it as anything else is a form of ableism.
Someone like Cass who has difficulty processing language is going to have just as much trouble learning ASL as she would English, Mandarin, or any other language, because her problem isn't that she just "doesn't know English." Cass's disability is not that she can't read or communicate verbally: it's that her brain is literally built different because of how Cain raised her, and that affects how she processes language (and thus how she communicates with other people):
"David Cain…had some unusal ideas about combat. He experimented with infants. Trained them in isolation and deprived them of human speech. The goal was to adapt the language center of the brain to interpret physical movement as a language. She can…read you. Your body. That's why she understands what you're saying when she doesn't know the words. It's why in combat, she knows what you're going to do before you do it." -Batgirl (2000) #1
"The language centers of your brain are all over both hemispheres. Not centralized like with most people. When you try to read or write, your brain doesn't know how to keep it cohesive. But the good news is--you can learn. It's just a matter of figuring out how." -Batgirl #67
It's actually specified somewhere (I don't have the panel on hand, unfortunately) that she doesn't know sign language; Cain wanted her to read natural body language and nuance, not artificial hand gestures. Cass's primary "language" (and thus form of communication) until her brain was semi-rewired was body language.
But body language isn't actually a language; it's a form of non-verbal communication that functions through the (largely subconscious) 'reading' of both conscious and unconscious physical movement. Cass's childhood and training simply elevated that ability to ridiculous heights:
"A special ability to predict my opponent's moves. That doesn't begin to describe it. Time...ran together. The future...blending...into the moment. A blink of an eye...the knife thrust that follows...both one. It was like...like I could predict my opponent's moves. Okay, that does describe it. But it doesn't do it justice. All this knowledge. No substitute for knowing." -Batgirl (2000) #7
We see explicitly how this ability plays out on several occasions throughout her Batgirl run and the Detective Comics Rebirth run, and it's pretty clear she's reading subconscious feelings, thoughts, and movement, not language:
Cass absolutely communicates via hand gestures before and after Batgirl #4, but it's not any form of cohesive language, much less ASL. It's effectively advanced charades mixed with some universal non-verbal gestures:
"You don't speak any language, do you? Except violence." -Detective Comics (1937) #734
"Is he giving you any trouble?" *Cass flaps her hand to indicate the guy is a blabbermouth* "Got you. He talks too much." -Batman: Family (2002) #7
*Cass gestures to Jason's heart, Tim's mind, and Dick's voice to indicate she understands how they work as a team*-Batman and Robin Eternal (2015) #3
People learning a English as a second language already have an understanding of how language works, but Cass doesn’t have that foundation. Her primary language isn't sign language, it's body reading. Thus, she struggles to speak, read, and write in English not because it's a different language than she's used to communicating with but because it's the first actual language she's ever learned. Fanon largely projects ASL fluency onto Cass because they fundamentally don't understand how her abilities work (and thus don't understand how her disability works either).
Does Cass have the ability to learn ASL? Absolutely! Would ASL be a really cool way of depicting Cass communicating with other people and an interesting way to showcase language learning difficulties and communication disabilities in the visual medium that is comics? Absolutely! I would actually be genuinely thrilled if canon and the fandom actually worked with what a physical, visual-based language like ASL might mean for Cass's ability to communicate given her childhood training. But as it stands, "Cass knowing ASL" is a well-meaning but misguided fanon attempt to showcase inclusivity while being...well, frankly kind of offensive.
(As for why she would theoretically "know" Mandarin, it's a product of the incredibly racist and ableist writing that defined the "Evil Cass Era." This culminated in DC putting her on a bus and shipping her off to Hong Kong because "Asian girl knows Asian languages, right? Brilliant! Send her off!" while ignoring literally everything about Cass ever. She's never actually shown speaking Mandarin, Cantonese, or any other dialect of Chinese on-panel, but we can reasonably infer she probably picked up SOME level of comprehension while living there.)
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THE NEW AND IMPROVED CASSANDRA CAIN READING GUIDE
Cassandra Cain is the daughter of assassins David Cain and Sandra Wu-San (better known as Lady Shiva), and was raised by Cain. She is an expert hand-to-hand combatant, and able to read body language to the point of interpreting complex thoughts, but learning to communicate better through speech and text. She has operated as a vigilante under the names of Batgirl, Kasumi, Black Bat, and Orphan, and is currently sharing the title of Batgirl with Stephanie Brown and Barbara Gordon.
Basic Reading
Batgirl (2000)
Batman: Gates of Gotham (2011)
Detective Comics (2016) #934-987
Batman and the Outsiders (2019)
Batgirls (2021)
Cassandra's major appearances are listed in chronological order (mostly) under the cut. My favorites are bolded.
No Man's Land
All issues collected in Batman: No Man's Land (2011) vol. 2-4. I recommend reading the entire event.
Batman (1940) #567 [first appearance]
Detective Comics (1937) #734
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #120 [Cassandra takes up Batgirl mantle]
Azrael: Agent of the Bat #56-57
Batman (1940) #569
The Batman Chronicles #18
Azrael: Agent of the Bat #60-61
Robin (1993) #73
As Batgirl
Issues that are part of events may be confusing out of context.
Batman: Gotham Knights #2, 5
Batman: Gotham City Secret Files and Origins [first story]
Batgirl (2000) #1-2
Young Justice (1998) #21
Batgirl (2000) #3-11, 12 [Officer Down start]
Birds of Prey (1999) #27
Catwoman (1993) #90 [Officer Down end]
Batgirl (2000) Annual #1, #13-19
Harley Quinn (2000) #10
Robin (1993) #88 [first meeting with Stephanie Brown]
Batgirl (2000) #20, 21 [Joker: Last Laugh start]
Joker: Last Laugh #3
Supergirl (1996) #63 [transphobia cw, Joker: Last Laugh end]
DC First: Batgirl/Joker
Batgirl (2000) #22-23, 24 [Bruce Wayne: Murderer? / Fugitive start]
Robin (1993) #98
Batgirl (2000) #25-29
Batman (1940) #605 [Bruce Wayne: Murderer? / Fugitive end]
Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins
Batgirl (2000) #30-32
Batman: Gotham Knights #33, 35
Batgirl (2000) #33-38
Batman: Family #7
Detective Comics (1937) #782 [backup], 790
Nightwing (1996) #81
Superboy (1994) #85 [first meeting with Kon-El/Conner Kent]
Batgirl (2000) #39-44
Batman: Gotham Knights #42, 45-46, 48-49
Robin (1993) #119
Batgirl (2000) #45-47
Superman/Batman #5
Batgirl (2000) #48-50
Birds of Prey (1999) #61, 63
Batgirl (2000) #51-53
Solo #10 [third story]
Detective Comics (1937) #796 [backup]
Robin (1993) #127-128
Batgirl (2000) #54
War Games
All issues collected in Batman: War Games (2015). I don't recommend reading the entire event.
Detective Comics (1937) #797
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #182
Nightwing (1996) #96
Batgirl (2000) #55
Batman (1940) #631
Batgirl (2000) #56
Nightwing (1996) #98
Batgirl (2000) #57
Batgirl in Bludhaven
Robin (1993) #132 [Fresh Blood start]
Batgirl (2000) #58
Robin (1993) #133
Batgirl (2000) #59 [Fresh Blood end]
Batman Allies: Secret Files and Origins 2005 [third story]
Batgirl (2000) #60-73
With the League of Assassins and Deathstroke
I don't recommend reading anything in this section except Batgirl (2008) #6.
Robin (1993) #148-151, 161-162
Supergirl (2005) #14
World War III #2
Teen Titans (2003) #43-46
Batman and the Outsiders (2007)
Batgirl (2008) [recap of this era. Bruce adopts Cassandra]
As Black Bat
Battle for the Cowl: The Network
Batgirl (2009) #1 [Cassandra gives Batgirl mantle to Stephanie]
Red Robin #17
Batman Incorporated (2011) #6
Red Robin #25
Batman: Gates of Gotham
As Orphan
The New 52 reboot changed Cassandra’s origins, personality, and relationships with other characters. Rebirth was a soft reboot that kept New 52 canon but brought back elements from the previous continuity.
Batman and Robin Eternal #1-9, 11-14, 17-26 [New 52]
Detective Comics (2016) #934-940 [Rebirth]
Batman (2016) #7 [Night of the Monster Men start]
Nightwing (2016) #5
Detective Comics (2016) #941
Batman (2016) #8
Nightwing (2016) #6
Detective Comics (2016) #942 [Night of the Monster Men end], 943-962
Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #15
Detective Comics (2016) #963-964
Batgirl and the Birds of Prey #15-17
Detective Comics (2016) #965-981, 983-987
Batman and the Outsiders (2019)
DC: The Doomed and the Damned [seventh story]
Batman: The Joker War Zone [second story]
Batman (2016) #104
Return of Batgirl
The Infinite Frontier reboot considers all past continuities canon.
Infinite Frontier #0
Batman Secret Files: The Signal
Batman: Urban Legends #3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 14
The Joker (2021) #3-4, 7, 11-12, 15
Detective Comics (2016) #1038 [backup], 1049, 1052, 1057
Batman (2016) #112 [main], 115-116 [backups]
Nightwing (2016) #85-86
Batman (2016) #117 [backup]
Batgirls #1-6
Task Force Z #8
DC Pride: Tim Drake Special
Robin (2021) #15
Detective Comics (2016) #1061
Batgirls #7
Catwoman (2018) #45
Batgirls #8- [ongoing]
Batman One Bad Day: Two-Face
Other Appearances
Ghost/Batgirl [Dark Horse Comics crossover]
Batman: Outlaws #2
Batman: City of Light [not recommended]
Justice League Elite [as Kasumi]
Wonder Woman (2006) #600 [second story]
Batgirl (2016) #50 [third story]
DC Festival of Heroes [first story]
Truth & Justice #6 [#16-18 digital first]
Alternate Universes
Tiny Titans #33, 39, 43, 45
Batgirl: Futures End
Convergence: Batgirl
Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey (2020)
DCeased: Unkillables / Dead Planet #5 / War of the Undead Gods
Shadow of the Batgirl [YA graphic novel]
Dark Knights: Death Metal Robin King [backup]
Future State: The Next Batman #2, 4 [second stories]
Batman: Wayne Family Adventures [webtoon]
DC vs. Vampires
Thanks for reading! If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Last updated: November 18, 2022
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theres a lot of words but stick with me here
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kyle is such a fun character because he’s so positive and friendly and good 99% of the time, and then the other 1%, he’s just a straight up sadistic manic
like he’s an artist. he’s a hopeless romantic. he’s become a god multiple times and never let it go to his head. he uses his ring to make bouquets of roses for his loved ones more than anything else. and also he’s tortured and killed multiple people and never shown an ounce of remorse about it. the range ❤️
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art prompts could you do a dick and jay hug
i love them in your style 💕
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Dick: Being the oldest is hard 'cause you have to balance siding with your parent and siding with your siblings at the same time.
Dick: Like once Damian complained about Bruce for an hour after an argument. The usual stuff, 'Father doesn't understand me', 'Father doesn't appreciate me'.
Dick: And on one hand I'm like 'I get you kiddo, he's a total jerk'.
Dick: But on the other hand I'm thinking about the time Bruce drunkenly confessed that he leaves the pterodactyl dino nuggets in the box cause they're Damian's favorite but they're Bruce's favorite too.
#dick grayson#nightwing#dc nightwing#damian wayne#robin#dc robin#bruce wayne#batman#dc shitpost#dc headcanon#not accurate to Bruces real favorite dinosaur but Im too lazy to cross reference comics right now#just replace pterodactyl with the actual answer my comic sleuths#Bruce does that thing dads do with groceries#he sees his kids like eating something so he buys excessive amounts of it that no one can realistically eat
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