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what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 9 months

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I'm finishing up my rewatch of season 3 of The Boys before I begin my SPN rewatch (got 2 more episodes left) and watching Jensen's performance as Soldier Boy just absolutely floors me.

It floors me because I've seen antis time and time again claim that Soldier Boy/Ben was essentially Dean in a superhero suit, that Jensen has one note acting, that he watered down the character by refusing to do scenes that made him uncomfortable (especially by one anti blog in particular who claims to be an acting expert, you know the one), and that his acting is very bland.

But in studying his performance because I'm studying the character (for writing purposes), these people couldn't be more wrong. I will admit that the only time I got a semi-Dean vibe from him was during the scene where Soldier Boy tells Butcher about his father. Which doesn't surprise me because Jensen himself said he leaned into the Dean/John dynamic for that scene.

But otherwise, I don't see anywhere where their claims hold any water. I mean, have you actually watched his scenes?

This scene is so important. Annie is getting ready to face off with this guy and even though she knows he's dangerous (after seeing he results of one of his explosions up close and personal), but she has no idea how dangerous, not really. This isn't Dean. This isn't Beau. This is the dangerous side of Solider Boy and had Hughie not intervened, there's a good possibility shit would have gone even more sideways. Especially, with Ben coming off of the confrontation with Countess, her hitting him where it hurts the most (meaning she tapped into one of his biggest insecurities. That explosion wasn't an accident (like NYC or even at Herogasm with the Twins). Ben didn't black out here. That's shown to us by there being no Russian trigger, despite him learning that Countess and his team handed him over back in 1984 and didn't even get paid for it.

I mean, look at this expression right here. His body is moving but his eyes don't. He's getting into position, ready to take out the next threat. Only when Hughie steps in and Annie's eyes dim does he step away, assessing her as not a threat. This is the weapon that is deadly enough to take on Homelander and no matter where you stand on Jensen as an actor, he pulls it off here.

The physicality he utilized in this role speaks volumes. And it's not about Soldier Boy being a Supe or being in a suit or having to look pissed off all the time (minus the few times he's amused). It has to do with how he embodies that character, carries him, and if he pulls it off. Spoiler alert: he did.

This scene exemplifies exactly what I'm talking about. I have watched it countless times and this part of it always sticks out to me every single time. Look at that expression, look at the eyes. Ben is not going all out to sell this belief let's call it to Hughie. He's giving him a look that says "this is the truth and you better believe it or else". He's not smiling for news cameras or doing propaganda or greeting fans of his movies decades prior. He's not selling the Soldier Boy is America's Greatest Hero image here. He's subtly threatening Hughie, and this is where he begins to have an issue with him. Because Ben wants to see himself as the good guy, something Kripke, Jensen, and the cast have talked about in promoting the season. In his own mind, he is the good guy; he's a legend in his own mind so to speak. He's bought the hype about himself. And anyone who doesn't see him that way is an enemy aka a threat.

It doesn't mean he doesn't know he's doing things that aren't right (as we saw in those outtakes of the 'Don't-do-drugs' commercial). He's very self-aware but he justifies it to himself because he's Soldier Boy and almost like Homelander always says, he can do what he wants. Not necessarily that he has a god-mentality that rivals Homelander's but everything is justifiable in his mind because he's a Supe, or more precisely the Supe, and he's protecting his country. And it also keeps that insecurity of being a disappointment at bay that he has from his childhood. It's all layered into his make-up so to speak. So not only is Hughie a threat (not physically obviously but to Ben's image of himself) but is also bordering dangerously close to reminding him of the very thing he hates: a mirror that reminds him that maybe his dad was right about him (not saying he was, I'm saying this is potentially what is running through his mind). So not only does it share a brilliant parallel between Hughie and Annie when it comes to Soldier Boy that eventually plays out beautifully in the Tower Scene in the finale, but it also is sewn into the issue between Hughie and Annie this season in their own relationship.

But the way Jensen plays that scene is phenomenal because if you watch it, you realize if Hughie says one wrong thing, he may be in trouble.

Which is then continued in this scene:

In this scene, Hughie is mentioning there's a lot of people inside Herogasm and here we get Ben's reaction to Hughie saying that. Then he tells Hughie as long as the people stay out of his way they should be fine. But again, watch how he says it, his expression, focus on his tone, his body movement. He clearly is not happy that Hughie says this (it literally is a continuation from the hotel room scene) and again has that subtle threat vibe, even with Butcher standing there (because let's face it, to him, even with temp V, Butcher is no threat). And of course, we all know the slap scene and the punch scene that happens later. Not only does Hughie get switched out for Ryan later on who Butcher ends up protecting from Soldier Boy, but it all plays out beautifully as all of the connections, overt and subtle, unfold throughout the season.

But back to Jensen's performance. There is so much to appreciate in how he fully embodied this character. And that's not saying it through an AA haze of "omg he's so hawt!" or "omg did you see his ass?" That's appreciating the amount of work that he put into this role when the cameras started rolling. He literally became Soldier Boy and he embodied him even outside of the suit.

As an actor, Jensen is very nuanced. He consistently adds in these little things that help make the character even more multi-dimensional than what is written on the page or what is called for int he scene and how it's blocked. This is why there is a certain small group of people on here that repeatedly talk about Jacting Joices, it's not just related to Supernatural or Destiel or Dean. It's about Jensen as an actor, as a performer, and how much he actually pours into these characters he plays. Whether it be the way he moves (or walks), or the expressions he uses, his eyes (yep, he does that too, see above), with his hands, even down to the way he delivers a line. All actors do this in their own way obviously, lean into physicality as well as their performance, but he definitely has his own unique style that I just don't see anyone else replicating. I think there's a reason so many people say no one else could have played Dean the way he could have for example. And if you watch his characters, really watch them, you'll see what he does each and every time. Even smaller characters like Jason from Smallville or Tom from My Bloody Valentine or Alec from Dark Angel. It's all right there on the screen.

So I guess my whole long point is I don't get why antis rip him apart when it comes to this role of Soldier Boy (other than being antis I guess) or say he can't act or that has no idea how to properly analyze his character because he actually did put a ton of work into this specific character (as well as all the others he's done) and you can clearly see it as you watch his scenes in the show. While I wish we could have seen Homelander and Soldier Boy go at it a bit more, and see Soldier Boy truly unleash that Alpha-ness of being the original Supe like had been talked about in promotions and interviews, it doesn't diminish that this character was fascinating and he brought it to life from the script in a way that complemented his own unique style as a performer.

tl;dr Jensen crushed Soldier Boy and Ben (yes, two different characters to embody actually) and I cannot wait to see more of him in any future Boys-related visual story telling, on the show or others.

#jensen ackles #jensen ackles appreciation #anti antis #the boys #theboysposts #soldier boy mention #on a completely related note #the boys is awesome #i seriously love this show so much #just more of kripke's brilliance shining through #rewatching and i'm seeing even more parallels throughout season 3 #just so well done #though i could have lived without THAT scene #kripke you sick fuck #if i ever see you in a sushi restaurant i am RUNNING

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scoobydoodean · 4 months

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One thing that bugs me about after school special is that the dude they casted for "teen" Dean is literally a decade older than young Sam. He was closer in age to Jensen than to Colin. Normally I wouldn’t gaf (none of the younger Dean actors ever hit the mark for me so it is what it is), but combined with the episode’s complete lack of empathy for his situation as a parentified child, it feels more insidious. It frames him as way older than he really is, and in a way normalizes his parentification. If they had casted an actual 16 year old, their dynamic would look a lot more honest to what it truly was.

You know I'm don't think I've even fully worked out my frustrations about After School Special yet. I had to stop thinking about it last night because it was 3AM and I had to go to bed (also for more context, see posts I reblogged from Leyla last night jshdbfjhsbdfh).

This episode is just so... messy. It tries to say too many things, it says some absolutely stupid things and some okay things, and in other places, the narrative isn't clear (or maybe Dabb and Loflin are at war with one another on the subject of Dean—who knows). I find some of my frustrations and why I have those frustrations... difficult to explain in words.

That is a good point about the casting of Brock. Mind you—I have nothing against the actor here. I actually have always thought Brock did a great job copying Dean's mannerisms and way of speaking (I assume Jensen worked with him during the episode) and I think he does his best with what he's given and the role he's expected to play. The writing itself isn't his fault, of course.

From a height perspective, they wanted to intentionally contrast Dean with Sam all episode, who's being mocked by Dirk (who's paralleled with Dean and is literally our only window into sympathy toward parentified children which... isn't much at all) for being shorter than him, and I think that's part of why they chose someone much older and taller than Collin Ford.

I also don't think we're necessarily meant to dismiss the knowledge that Sam is much taller than Dean as an adult, but the thing is, if they wanted me to buy into the idea that everyone in After School Special is a bully (except maybe Barry), they did a terrible job. Sam hardly comes off as a bully—all he does is defend himself from someone who used their pain as an excuse to make his and other people's lives miserable (we get better evidence of bully!sam in their previous episode—"Yellow Fever"—actually). Is that what Dabb and/or Loflin think of Dean? That he's made Sam miserable? How? By *looks at notes* not obeying his every whim and following him around like an obedient dog, or perhaps by being dead? Hm. Except Dean doesn't even make Sam miserable in this episode (unless making jokes Sam doesn't find funny counts). Sam even picked the case they're on—Dean doesn't actually really want to go to their old school. Young Dean is reiterating that he'll look out for young Sam the entire episode.

I do think people are right when they say Dean's height (and much older appearance) are meant to reflect how Sam perceived him (After School Special is nearly fully from Sam's POV—Dean is more of a plot device than anything). Young Dean is immediately popular in school. He's handsome and makes the other kids his age laugh from the moment he enters the classroom. He immediately catches the eye of popular girls, and Barry and Sam have an exchange about it.

BARRY That's your brother with Amanda Heckerling? He's cool. YOUNG SAM Yeah. He thinks so.

Sam's paper about their werewolf hunt is, by the teacher's recounting, one where Dean shines the brightest—not Sam. He's the first thing that catches Wyatt's attention. What catches his attention second is John dragging them everywhere. Sam doesn't really factor in at all.

MR. WYATT I'm not flunking you. I'm giving you an "A." Now, aside from the werewolf, is that really how you'd describe your family? YOUNG SAM Yeah. MR. WYATT Well, your brother is quite a character. And your father -- he seems, uh, driven.

This also isn't a bad nugget about Sam, in an episode that comes right after 4.12 which is also to an extent about the desire for fame and attention and the old school versus the new school (where Sam represents the hot, new, popular magic that embraces demonic forces and is pushing out the old ways of doing things). I said 4.13 is also about envy—many of the murders are driven by projections on others. Dirk perceived Sam and Dean as "Jocks... you popular kids... you always thought you were better than everybody else." When that wasn't them at all. I've said that Sam is jealous of Dean (his bravery in combat despite zero powers, in previous seasons—his intelligence and way with people, his title as "the righteous man" while Sam is "the boy with the demon blood"). Dirk was projecting his resentments onto people they didn't apply to as a function of resentment and jealousy from the superiority he himself ultimately perceived them to possess, and that's much more reminiscent of Sam this season (we're about to see him project his insecurities on Dean and become the Big Bad Bully in the next episode—4.14):

OK, fine. You know why I didn't tell you about Ruby, and how we're hunting down Lilith? Because you're too weak to go after her, Dean. You're holding me back. I'm a better hunter than you are. Stronger, smarter. I can take out demons you're too scared to go near. [...] You're too busy sitting around feeling sorry for yourself. Whining about all the souls you tortured in hell. Boo hoo.

For Sam, After School Special isn't a terrible episode. It's just that it almost fully treats Dean as a cartoonish plot device and the neckbeard-type loathing for him almost seeps off the page even with all the nods to performing Dean you could ever want. In After School Special, Dean seems more unlike himself than any episode ever in the history of Supernatural up to this point. I do actually kind of think Dabb took one look at Dean when he came in in season 4 and decided he's a bully because he's popular based on nothing—however much he pretends he's only saying something else... and honestly I don't think he ever really got over it.

#mail #4.13 #dabb #loflin #4.12 #season 4 #pk rewatches spn number ?#sams follower/leader false dichotomy #sams motivations #projecting displaced aggression and scapegoating in spn #sams envy #dabb disk horse #writer disk horse #i wanted so badly to believe i could be saved

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clumsykleptorocketscientist · 19 days

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The Winchester Family: A Rant

Can I just say that Sheriff Jody Mills was more of a mother to Sam and Dean Winchester more than Mary ever was, even after Amara brought her back. Like I guess no hate to Mary...? But like isn't the whole thing about the Winchesters is that family isn't just blood. They developed wayy closer bonds than the ones with Mary, and I know it isn't necessarily her fault, but she wasn't there. Like I dunno, I just wasn't in love with Mary coming back, especially since when she did come back, it seemed like she saw they were grown up and like, didn't care..? Like it felt like she went "oh my job is done these are just two grown dudes that I gave birth to once." Like I know its a weird situation, but as a person who grew up watching Once Upon a Time, where like almost the same thing happened, with Snow, David, and Emma, I can't help but compare their reactions and Mary just didn't stack up.

Snow and David were so ecstatic to see Emma and tried so hard to make up for lost time and parent her as much as they could. They kept trying even as Emma pushed them away saying she was grown and that her and her parents were technically the same age. Throughout the show they found a way to still be her parents while still acknowledging she was grown. It was really beautiful to see, but in comparison Mary did not stack up.

Yes, she is a badass, and, yes, her identity should not solely surround her being the boys' mother, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be a mother at all. It would've been nice to see her figure out a way to strike the balance the Snow and David did, and I never got that vibe. In Supernatural, it seemed the opposite. It was Dean and Sam trying to be her sons and she pushed them away for the same reasons. I'm not saying she was a bad person, or even a bad mother, as it was a really weird situation and I can't necessarily blame her for how she dealt with it. What I AM saying, though, is that her name had no right to be carved onto that table. Point. Blank. Period.

Also, by the way, since I'm complaining, that weird episode with the pearl thing that let John Winchester come back so they could have a family dinner?????? As if that could truly be what Dean desired. Are you fucking kidding me. John sucked, made them both feel like shit, abused them, and yet that was the "family dinner" we got. It's been a while since I watched the show, so Idk a timeline, but screw the timeline for a sec. Across the entire show, a true family dinner would be Dean and Cas with their son Jack, Sam as the Uncle with Eileen, Bobby and Jody as the Dean and Sam's parents (because, unlike Mary, I very much feel like Jody struck that balance even though they weren't her actual sons) and Jody's brigade of wayward sisters trailing behind her, Donna as like the step-mother or aunt (Idk how Donna fits, I just LOVE Donna), and Charlie as Sam and Dean's little sister. Jo, Ellen, and Ash pop in with Rufus as those family members that are close, but you can't quite pinpoint how exactly you're related to them. Bonus: Kevin and Linda Tran come over like friendly neighbors because, even though they have a family of their own, the Trans are definitely close to the Winchesters, though, whether they like it or not. As much as I'd like to add Adam (to make up for him being left in the pit), I have a feeling he wouldn't want to. He seemed like a guy who refused to subscribe to the idea that because they were blood, they were family. (Maybe Sam and Dean should've learned a thing or two).

TL;DR:

Sam and Dean had a much bigger, and better, family then just John and Mary, but it was never really acknowledged fully and in the best way.

#supernatural #mary winchester #sam winchester #dean winchester #jack winchester #castiel #jody mills #claire novak #charlie bradbury #jo harvelle #ellen harvelle #Ash #rufus turner #bobby singer #john winchester #kevin tran #linda tran

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zmediaoutlet · 1 year

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happy wincest wednesday liz!! as a huge full house of wincest fan, i have to wonder about your samdean headcanons in some of those fics. do you think samdean is inevitable, or at least possible, in every version?

happy happy wincest wednesday!! I'm so glad you like the full house thing. (It genuinely gives me a jolt of pride whenever I see anyone else using the term ☺ -- like, aww, there's my horizontal-and-vertical-incest baby, all grown up and--and saving China!)

Anyway -- I am a wincest tragic, so... I really can't conceive of any canon-based universe where Sam and Dean don't end up together, whether in actual-canon gencest, 'weirdcest' as I hear the kids are calling it these days, or actually full-blown brojobs and buttstuff. I mean, that's kind of the whole point of the show, or the show that I watch at least which is The Story of Sam and Dean Winchester. They start off apart, and tangle closer together, first because of destiny and then because of choice. That's always, always going to happen in a canon universe.

The Full House of Wincest is always intended to be as canon-based as possible, given constraints. As much as possible, I try to keep John's characterization more or less consistent with what we see, even given this awful thing he's doing (which can shade more or less awful, but I really try not to write him as a monster bc a) I find that boring, but also b) John Winchester in canon isn't actually a monster, because he's more complicated than that -- let's stick with it being complicated as much as possible). Even if it starts when Dean's really young and even if it's straight-up grooming and even if some bad shit goes down -- well, John started Dean on this crazy hunting life too young and groomed him to be a soldier and bad shit did go down, so sex is just... one more thing. (One thing about that: sometimes the scenarios as presented in a FHoW are actually a whole lot kinder than some of the same moments in canon. At least like this Dean's getting some kind of affection and attention, you know? [Ouch!])

So, if you pair those two paragraphs: yeah, I don't see a single FHoW scenario where Sam and Dean don't end up together. If by smooshing them together as samdean you mean strictly actual-sex incest and not just the emotional incest of canon -- I think there's still a really strong chance that actual-incest happens, even if maybe they don't end up continuing to have sex long-term. One thing about it is that for Dean, a permission structure in his head has already been formed: because John already opened that door, Dean knows it is possible to have sex with a nuclear family member and that that's not... necessarily a bad thing (regardless of extenuating circumstances and consequence). Whether he's able to do that with (or to) Sam is something he has to decide later. If it's a universe where Sam knows (or finds out), I feel like that'd become a bigger obstacle, given Sam's canonically rebellious feelings about John: this is yet another way John has ruined Dean/their family, and he can't be like John, can he? (Oh, honey. The places you'll go.)

The most interesting thing about John/Dean for me (and indeed any external Dean ship -- Benny, Deacon, Gordon, etc) is how it becomes part of Dean's character -> how that reflects on the actual story of the show -> how it becomes part of Sam/Dean. Like, Dean/Benny is fine and fun on its own, but the real magic is how it's part and parcel of the story of mistrust and fear and cheating and longing that's the story of s8. John's the same way -- I don't particularly care about John as a person in himself (though he's fine and interesting); what matters to me about him is the effect he has on his children, and in a John/Dean situation that's turned up to 11. So years later, when Sam finally touches Dean's jaw in a particular way, how does that history inform the way that Dean responds? It's just... the best. What a goddamn show that lets us play with all of that in a way that still, somehow, amazingly, makes the characters actually feel like they're in-character, like it could've just happened in a deleted scene.

#happy wincest wednesday #answers #<3 thanks for liking those stories #they are very fun to write #guess i should also tag to be safe:#the full house of wincest #john/dean #wincest

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hologramcowboy · 2 years

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https://hologramcowboy.tumblr.com/post/699366459770568704/youre-being-unfair-to-jensen-by-talking-his-show

Couple of things here...

"You're being unfair to Jensen by talking his show down like that, do you realize that a bunch of the things you are criticizing here were done 100% on purpose? Yes everything and everyone feels a lot like Dean, duh because this is the John and Mary winchester story as told by Dean"

So you're admitting this is a show made by Jensen for Jensen because he couldn't let go of Dean?? Cool. Also, YOU anon, are being unfair to the actual stars of the show by making it all about Dean/Jensen. They already got sidelined so the EP's could steal the spotlight during promo and now fans like you are doing it while the show is airing as well. You are sidelining the mains (and the poc sidekicks who are already getting done dirty by the show itself) in favor of Jensen/Dean. Do you not see an issue with this???? Oh and people are free to criticize if they want to, Jensen has been in the industry for more than half his life and if he can't handle it by now he's in the wrong line of work.

"Yes the romantic scenes feel way too cheesy like a soap opera, down to the music, and yes, John's infatuation with Mary feels odd and unjustified. But that's the freaking point! They are being forced together by divine intervention! How do you know this entire thing isn't a play put on by the Angels, just to manipulate them into falling in love."

Ok, well the problem with this is that you are making assumptions based on og spn canon which TW is clearly not following. Yea, the people who actually watched spn know that the angels forced John and Mary together, but at this point I'm not convinced Jensen or Robbie are those people. And we certainly know Danneel didn't watch. Plus why do they push the fact that its a "love story" at every turn if what they mean is "well, its not actually a love story because the angels are going to force them together but we're going to call it that anyways!!" That's not a love story, that lack of consent and free will which is NOT love. But again, this is all based on assumptions that YOU anon aer making. We know how it happened in the original show but TW doesn't seem to care about that so I wouldn't necessarily assume that's going to happen here too.

"just relax and give Jensen a chance."

Ya know what? No. No thanks. I gave him more than enough chances over the past year to listen to fans and course correct. Or hell, even take a modicum of responsibility for the whole debacle. He did neither. When the prequel announcement was made, before prequel-gate happened, the overwhelming response by most fans (including many who are now claiming they love the show simply because they have deluded themselves into thinking its somehow a "gotcha" to Jared) was "what? why? no one wants that!" It was only AFTER it was revealed that Jared was left out that some hellers and AA's got on board purely out of spite. It was a bad idea from the jump and fans were very vocal about that. And not just saying they didn't want it, they were very clear, concise, and detailed about WHY they didn't want it and what the inherent problems were. So it was all out there for the Ackles' & Co to source and see where they could maybe make some changes so the idea would be more accepted by fandom. Instead of doing that they doubled down on their bad idea. So if Jensen doesn't want to give the fans a chance and listen to their feedback (we've seen how he handles that... "hate watch", "if you don't like the prequel were you ever really fans of spn", etc) then I am done giving him chances. He's had wayyyy too may over the years and my goodwill towards him has run out.

Thank you for expressing this beautifully and candidly. I resonate deeply with what you wrote.

#anti the winchesters #anti spn prequel #jensen critical

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permanately-confuzzled · 1 year

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Okay so. This gonna be long. But dean headcanon.

This is a bit of a stretch and not one that I think a lot of people lean towards (either that or I'm just not in a circle that talks about it) but. Dean has autism? Maybe not super obvious signs, and I'm much more familiar with the signs in afab than amab, but it feels REALLY similar to myself.

I realize that cptsd has really similar symptoms as low-support-needs (high functioning??? Someone please tell me what term to use I cant figure out if it's problematic or not) late diagnosed autism, as well as several other neurotypes. But a lot of it feels really familiar, and in some of the distinguishments between cptsd and autism, dean leans toward the autism side.

Anyway, a list in no particular order:

Knows a lot about random topics -- that one case where he knew the guy used the wrong country for a proverb to come from, mentioning vonnegut, possible hyperfocus on weapons and fighting

Seems to have a fairly good musical understanding despite having little to no experience -- you're telling me John taught him how to sing? And he picked up on guitar as quickly as was implied? I think the fuck not

Hyperfocus on a TV show/genre -- Scooby-Doo, dr. Sexy, westerns

Perfectly happy driving for hours on end listening to the same tracks on repeat -- apparently this isn't normal???

Seems to dissociate really easy -- he could be desensitized to violence, and probably is at least a little. But when he's already emotional, or caught by surprise, he's immediately horrified, almost like he's not as careless towards it as normal.

Described as having too many emotions. Very much cannot communicate them. Seems overwhelmed.

Very much likes blankets, hot showers, massage bed -- sensory issues. Also, that could be why he wears flannel and jeans all the time. Yeah, it's practical, but the clothes don't bother his sensory issues.

Also, sensory stuff could be why he's constantly chasing sex. If your constantly feeling everything, why not make the everything be mostly good? People with asd also typically are either on the grey scale of sexuality or hypersexual.

He clearly understands communication, but masking. Also, he's fairly social. The puzzle of human communication may be a hyperfixation of his. Not to mention that a few of the times people say things he isn't expecting he gets flustered and confused.

He seems to see grey points in a very black and white way, and black and white as grey. I don't know how else to describe that.

The thing with asd people typically struggling more than nts to understand things like capitalism bc why WOULDNT you give up some fancies if other people can eat enough -- that's literally why he can't get himself to leave hunting.

Not willing to change the impala or his music.

Had the whole dean cave put together without Sam knowing (I think? Correct me if I imagined this)

Routine. He's impulsive when it's his decision, but if someone else decides, he wants nothing to do with it -- getting up in the morning, I swear there's more but my brain is getting tired

Struggles to make close connections. Very few actual friends (especially compared to sam) and very few actual relationships.

The close friends he has are not nt. Charlie most likely has adhd or asd, cas acts very similar to someone with asd, Sam's at least really traumatized. This is common with nds.

He has different personalities depending on who he's with (masking) -- cas vs Charlie vs Sam vs Donna vs Claire vs Benny... etc

Prone to addiction -- the need for routine and chronic stress from masking makes this true for asd people as well.

I think it was called existential suicidal ideation or something like that? Doesn't want to die necessarily, but doesn't really want to be around but does, but doesn't really care. It doesn't seem like a big deal so he's sorta apathetic to it.

I think there was more, but I cant remember right now. Am I crazy???

Sorry is asd autocorected to sad. And yes I did hyperfocus on this for a week and a half.

#dean #dean winchester #asd #autism #supernatural #headcanon #spn #spn headcanon #suicide mention #potentially triggering #dean has asd

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bibliophileiz · 1 year

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I want to get my Winchesters theory on the record before it probably gets disproved next week or in the finale.

So in a nutshell my theory is that the akrida are a byproduct of postseason 15 jack trying to remake the universes chuck destroyed in the final season. They can bleed through cracks in time bc of weird universe-making rules existing outside of time or something. We know Robbie Thompson's into messing with time and also I miss when doctor who was good. So something-something time's already screwed a little anyway so jack sends back some time traveling angels to just ... Drop little hints to the humans in like hieroglyphics or the dead sea scrolls or whatever about how to deal with these aliens from independence day. His version of the angel/demon/leviathan tablets. That's how you end up with secret supernatural-studying societies like the mol beating back the akrida throughout history even though there is literally no mention of them ever doing that in spn and in fact their whole thing is non-involvement anyway (except during WWII I guess, which is fair). That way there's not supernatural beings DOING THINGS that they haven't already been established doing and the groups that would be into this stuff anyway just have like, another thing to be into, so instead of killing just vampires they're killing vampires AND akrida. But what about when abbadon wipes out the mol Dean asks jack. Jack is like, idk, maybe Rufus can take care of it. And dean's like I know a hunter. And Jack's like no. And dean's like you killed my mom. And Jack's like ok but they can't know who you are. And so Dean goes down to earth on what is supposed to be a temporary trip to tip John off and then hangs around because when has Dean EVER done what an all-powerful supernatural entity told him to do?

Here are some things in the show that don't NOT support this theory

1. Dean's voice over in the pilot makes a point that the akrida aren't just a threat to earth but a threat to "the entire universe". Which is interesting bc dean knows chuck is going to wipe out all the other worlds in the universe in like 50 years, so what's a few decades give or take?

2. Obviously there's some time travel going on bc dean is hanging around. But it's ANOTHER LEVEL OF TIME TRAVEL to summon the future ghost of someone who is not yet dead, as they do with Henry Winchester.

3. idk how that last one actually supports my theory, it's just super weird and I find it fascinating.

4. The akrida existing are the only thing bringing John, Mary, Carlos, and Lata together, suggesting they may not have all been pals in the original timeline, which means Carlos and Lata don't necessarily die young and tragic like the rest of Mary's friends. This isn't really evidence, just a nice thought and another reason I like my theory.

5. I feel like I had more evidence than this but I can't think of any more

Basically I just think this theory is a good way to make Winchesters take place in another universe without making it ANOTHER UNIVERSE where it's not our John and Mary, the parents of our Sam and Dean. Probably chuck and jack will still have to show up and do some memory erasure of John or something to keep the future timeline from being too messed up though.

#the winchesters #a theory #supernatural #i like this theory bc it means this is still MY mary winchester but also carlos doesn't have to die

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shallowseeker · 2 years

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I think my main takeaway I'd like to keep is this:

There's a lot of merit in being anti-destiny, anti-soulmate, anti-chosen-one, anti-Cupid, anti-mirrors/anti-parallels.

To me, that doesn't necessarily mean we poo-poo on characters labeled "soulmates," like Mary and John. To me, it means, we must be hesitant to believe such a claim in the first place. Because Heaven isn't reliable.

And perhaps, it is us swallowing the "soulmates" line robs Mary and John of choice.

///

Beware the mirrors:

Before we swallow literal snake oil directly sold from The Architects of a Heavenly Matrix (Gabriel, Zachariah, Chuck, etc.), we must first consider that these "mirrors" may be deeply, deeply suspect or even untrue objects of ridicule or manipulation directly imposed by the author.

Not mirrors of truth, then, but funhouse mirrors. We err when we view our precious side plots as black-and-white revelations of truth. Most importantly, mirrors aren't one-to-one recipes for figuring out what characters mean to each other.

///

The very concept of soulmates is Thee Antithesis of Free Will.

As a fandom, we are so willing to believe Mary and John weren’t "in a real relationship" and had no agency.

Why?

Because a Cupid told us so, and we don't think the Cupid had reason to lie, so we believe him.

Yes, they had rocky moments and John for sure had post-death idealization of Mary. John heavily decayed as a character so did Dean, but that doesn’t mean there was no goodness or love to begin with. You can become a bad person.

I think it's a little unfair to assume that they didn’t fight like Hell to choose each other and dodge the machinations. It's also a little unfair to assume that they didn’t choose each other, just because they, like all marriages, weren't perfect or honest with one another. If they had been perfect, don't you think that's actually more suspect?

Oh, but Heaven told you so? Right. Heaven, which feeds you a regular diet of cupids and soulmates and other bullshit. Hmm.

///

Are you Team Free Will?

By the time we finish watching SPN, words that imply destiny should send us running for our goddamn lives. So, how did TFW lose?

SPN feels forever unresolved because:

Dean will dies after placing too much focus on Revenge, the corrupted, unfair past

Cas dies after placing too much stock in Jack’s Destiny, the idealized, inevitable future

Sam’s mistake was probably falling prey to Chuck’s illusion, the corrupt future, and losing Hope

Perhaps, they jointly screwed up when they lost their hero-ness and didn’t trust they they were Enough on their own, without Fortuna's luck.

///

An alternative to mirrors?

Anyway, I sort of see all the mirror stuff as Chuck making fun of his characters or trying to misdirect them, or at worst, trying to tell them who they are instead of letting them discover it for themselves.

I know fandom loves its mirrors, but I like to remind myself that these mirrors can contain false, toxic messages to mold you to take on a role and to perceive things a certain way.

But importantly:

You are not one-dimensional.

You are not one archetype.

You do not have a sole purpose. You do not serve a sole cause.

You are multi-faceted and beautiful.

You can care about many things and people in your life.

You are worthy, even in the throes of the storm, even in the midst of turmoil, and even tangled up in the ugliness of war.

You can make the worst mistake of your life.

You can be an abuser and victim, and that doesn't make you a caricature; it makes you messy and human.

You can doubt who you are and go full-blown existential crisis and lose your way.

But you can start trying to be good anytime and you should always keep trying to fix it. That's hope. That's the whole point.

#spnwin stuff #free will stuff #poughkeepsie warnings #spn themes #spnwin #hope in the whole point #spn mirrors #alt mary #alt jon #spn + unreliable narrators #shal meta #spn angels #tfw + integration

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jtthompson · 2 years

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SVU ranting

Law & order SVU. Problematic. Troubling. Copaganda. They STAY doing illegal things. I know this. WE know this. However let's discuss one of the other reasons why this shit is RANCID. OLIVIA & ELLIOT.

THIS FUCKING MAN- Tells her he's lost everything except for Olivia and the job, they both chose to save one another over catching a baddie and Stabler's all "This can't happen again Liv". So Olivia?? LEAVES. Asks for a transfer. GHOSTS HIM. DESK EMPTY. And he's in his FEELINGS. Then they start pairing him with "loose cannon" partners so he can maybe understand how shitty he HIMSELF is. THE IRONY. RIGHT. UGH.

THEN Olivia is back in SVU. Back as his partner for a coupla episodes before she gets pulled undercover. AND DISSAPEARS AGAIN. No messages. Just OUTIE. Is gone for months. COMES BACK, MEETS STABLER"S NEW PARTNER BECK, says she isn't ready to come back and asks for everyone to NOT tell Elliot that she's back.

The subterfuge. The bs. WHY are they no longer allowed to be around one another? This feels like midseasons of Supernatural when Cas always had a side mission or was perpetually hiding things from Dean. Why are they treating Olivia and Elliot like they are a queer couple!? He's had divorce papers for MULTIPLE SEASONS NOW and pretty sure they are still unsigned. How absolutely shitty to his EX and his 5 effing kids.

Now Beck is here. Her and Stabler have been butting heads as she settles into the squad. Liv stops by, leaves, "don't tell El" - and now Stabler is COMPLIMENTING Beck. AND THEY JUST FUCKING KISSED. WHAT IS GOING ON!?!?!! One night of drinks after MAYBE catching a murderer and suddenly fireworks? Feels like a Sims 3 romance. *Buy drink. Tell joke. Compliment. Compliment. Tell joke. Kiss*

Apparently the sheer masculine testosterone of one Elliot Stabler is too much for any female partners to handle, because they always end up doe eyed over this man who has 0 impulse control and massive anger issues and avoids emotions. This is SEASON 8! OLIVIA HAS BEEN OVERTLY IN LOVE WITH HIM FOR A MIIIIIIIINUTE.

Stabler's WIFE hints at being uncomfortable with their friendship/partnership in SEASON FUCKING ONE. EARLY SEASON ONE, and these are MINIMUM 23 episode seasons. ITS BEEN YEARS. AND NOW THEY WONT ALLOW THEM TO BE IN THE SAME ROOM!?!?!!

But at this point they are SO fucking toxic for one another. Their heads EMPTY when together. I legit don't want them to get together anymore. My WHOLE LIFE, watching SVU, watching marathons, heart eyed over Liv+El uwu. But in actuality watching it all??? HATE.

The fact that then Elliot LEAVES SVU and the US suddenly in just a few years is now just fucking hilarious. Olivia set this precedent! Second time not necessarily her choice. First time??? She was working in what appears to be the SAME BUILDING. Cleans out her desk, tells NO ONE, till Elliot visits computer crimes for a case! His EXPRESSION when he walked in and saw her?! LMAOOO. Like 2 episodes later. He basically says he cares too much and she goes "tight. Outie". Now she is BACK IN TOWN and GHOSTING HIM. Damn straight Eliot leaves the fucking country. STAY GONE BRUV. Also HOW DO YOU SPELL HIS NAME OMFG.

Dani Beck? Family life is SO MUCH PAIN. (Her husband was a cop who was shot during a routine pull over. Throws herself into her work to avoid EVERYTHING)

Omfg. Then Ice T as Fin. His family life is so much pain. (Estranged from son who is gay, which is storyline important whenever they need a gay man in the city get info from. Don't even get me started on his ex wife and Ludacris. I had to turn that episode off. Couldn't do it!)

John Munch? Family life is SO MUCH PAIN. (His dad committed suicide when he was 9, his Uncle becomes so depressed he develops temporary dementia???, goes on antidepressants, enters a manic state and pushes a dude in front of a train who MAYBE was gonna get away with some horrible crimes, is institutionalized where he decides to NEVER medicate himself and instead slip back into dementia and not knowing who he is or remembering his nephew.)

#Idk how the fuck you spell that man's name #Christopher Meloni I like a ton #Happy was a wild fucking ride that I thoroughly enjoyed #He's got an amazing ass #But Elliot Stabler can CHOKE #Olivia Benson?? GET REKT #FUCK OFF #I dig Dani though #HATE that she was just inserted to ???? be angery and apparently kiss Stabler #Donkey Kong Meme: ONCE #UGH #HATING IT HERE #Loved it more when it was just them beating the shit out of rapists #Listen when someone does some of the horrific shit that happens in this show?#And we KNOW they done did it?#It's near cathartic when horrible things happen to them!#KARMA #I have a LOT of feelings about this #This fucking SHOW #Just gimme a spin off with Dani - Fin Tutuola - John Munch and Captain Cragen #We get BOTH Casey Novak and Alex Cabot on rotation #Let Stabler and Benson go??? IDK pine away somewhere else

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supertransural · 3 years

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My Bloody Valentine, what the hell

Okay. I know I'm probably not writing a hot take with this one, but I just needed to get all my tangled up thoughts out in the form of coherent strings of words ("coherent" is debatable as you'll probably find out if you read this entire thing).

So here I was, watching a random commentary video, and this scene from 5x14 My Bloody Valentine was included in it:

Now that. That's a bi flag. We know how much care set designers put into the details of the scenes we see. This is an episode centered around love. The cupid here talks about "Love", as in, the broad term. The "all-encompassing" term, if you will. He also says he "loves love", which I personally interpret as "in all its shapes and forms", and I don't believe that interpretation of what the cupid is saying is that far-fetched, after all, he kind of is Love (with a capital L). So what does that scene mean?

Let's find out.

First of all, I just feel like I should mention that I think pansexuality would be a better way to "represent" that sort of sentiment around what Love is, but if I'm not mistaken, the pansexual flag was created after this episode aired, and even if the word "pansexual" has existed for a pretty long time in various studies and areas (usually in psychology, if I understand correctly?), and has been used in LGBTQ+ spaces for a while too, it's still not as "commonly known" in the day-to-day life of cishet people, at least not in the same way that being bi is.

That being said, here's one more little nugget before I do a quick analysis of the scene. The idea of being bi is probably the closest thing that any not-very-informed-but-supportive-ish cishet person could think of if they wanted to relate the concept of "love for the sheer sake of love, having love for anyone, love of the masses" to actual characters and how they're able to love their peers (or more accurately, which peers). It's not so surprising to me that this would be the flag chosen by set designers when trying to pass on the message of "this interaction is about love as a general concept, this cupid is love, this cupid loves everyone, and will bless any couple, and yeah in that scene two out of the three characters (other than the cupid himself) stand in front of that light, no reason haha". It makes sense.

Now, onto the actual substance of this.

First of all, because it's funny, Dean why are you literally staring at this cupid's dick, honestly, what the fuck, Sam is averting his eyes (good call), Cas looks like he's only interested in analyzing the cupid's face (more on that later) and nothing else, why are you staring downwards why why why and why (hello, jacting choices). Second of all, because it's funny too, why do you look slightly flustered, in an oh-god-this-is-not-a-drill-shit-oh-god-fuck-embarrassed way? I mean Sam looks like he's been to hell and back, but not flustered.

It's also specifically interesting to see both Cas and Dean being the ones standing together in front of that light. It happens just a little while before, right here:

They're. Staring at a cupid, whose job it is to bless couples, who's Love incarnate, he hugged these two idiots first before getting to Sam, which means something and I'm not exactly sure what but, if you still have braincells (unlike me) please tell me what you conclude of those facts compiled together.

In this particular scene, I don't think the flag is actually a pointer to specific characters being bi, I think it's more of a broad "yeah these guys love a little different" kind of thing. For example, we see Cas in front of that light a lot.

This is season 5, he's barely starting to understand what emotions are, but he's already faithful to Dean and his cause, he's beginning to get what liking things, what caring means. He doesn't figure it all out until way later (in my personal opinion, that is. And I mean... 15x18 anyone?) no, at that point he's driven by things like want, need, yeah, I'll say it, lust, or simple candid curiosity. But that ties into the idea that right now, in that episode, Cas' understanding of "Love" is very broad. He doesn't understand details yet, the only detail he knows is Dean vs the World, and all he gets about that is "the world matters to Dean, there's probably a reason for that, if I follow him around enough I'll probably discover it, and I trust him enough to lead me there". He's still an angel, fairly through and through. He's curious, though.

Refer back to that previous gif, Cas is watching with acute interest what that cupid is doing. Prior to this scene, he's known the "mission" that cupids uphold for thousands of years, but I doubt he's ever really looked at it with the help of the lens of actual humans (read: Dean). He's interested, this cupid's job is to create love, and that seems to be something inherently tied to what makes his charge... himself. That much he knows. Again, probably not in detail, probably not that precisely, but he's got a sense that this cupid represents something he doesn't know and hasn't felt before, yet something Dean and Sam are accustomed to, and driven by. So yeah, he's curious.

Now here's the thing. We see Dean standing in front of that light, both alone, with the cupid, and with Cas. On several occasions.

(something something something bi flag in the background something something something character centered around love something something something the word "dick" something something something what the fuck CW)

We see the cupid standing in front of the light (scroll back up), and we see Cas in front of the light, with the cupid, alone, and with Dean. What about Sam?

...Yeah, no. I replayed that scene several times and I didn't find one instance where we see Sam even remotely lighted by that flag. And when I say remotely, I mean like this:

The light being somewhat noticeable in the background. Even when we see Sam after he moves a bit, like so:

The light is nowhere to be seen. That's after the cupid's left too, so it makes sense the flag wouldn't be relevant anymore: the entity that it represents isn't there to give it meaning anymore. I mean, during that entire scene Sam's a bit (gross understatement, I know) of a background character, but that's simply because he's not the main focus of what the cupid and the flag mean.

Dean though. Dean's a focus alright. No one can ever convince me otherwise, he's bi. That's just a fact at this point. But that's not all the flag and the cupid mean when relating to him here. He's beginning to form a type of bond with Cas, albeit small. He's starting to open up a door that he's never really noticed before: the one that lets people other than blood relatives (or close runner-ups like Bobby) in. And he's facing that head on, like how he's facing the cupid. Both he and Cas do that actually, in their own way. They're looking straight into the eyes of the unknown (Cas literally looks into the eyes of the cupid): for Cas it's this strange foreign thing called emotion, and for Dean it's letting a known emotion be directed at someone new. They're the ones that talk to the cupid, not Sam, because they have things to be curious or apprehensive about, in the context of love (or different love).

They stand in the highlight of that flag, because they're the ones discovering new things (hello, 10x16 speech, yes I'm relating a random scene with a funny light to a speech 5 seasons later, leave me be, I'm insane) and not Sam, who's for one: human, so he already knows what love is, and two: way more in touch with his feelings than his brother. Basically, the concept of Love being something strange, unknown, new, different, scary, worth punching it in the face for, deserving of focused study, take your pick, doesn't really apply to him.

How could I relate this to destiel you ask? Very easily, I say. This, theydies and gentlethems, is a representation of the first step both Cas and Dean take towards each other. A toe in the waters of a frightening and captivating new thing. And again, they face it in a really direct manner.

That is... Right up until the cupid mentions John and Mary. That's when it goes downhill and we understand that whatever Dean and Cas have going on is about to take years of work and a million steps still need to be taken.

Exhibit a:

Look at Cas' face, when the cupid mentions the Big Plan. He starts by studying the cupid (again, curiosity), then looks at Dean, then Dean briefly looks back (perhaps back at Cas but that's debatable), and that's when Cas looks down, embarrassed. I read that as: "Ah yes, as interesting of a concept this cupid is, as fascinating as these two humans' perspective on his mission is, it's still dictated by Heaven, and they're not going to like that. I'm still dictated by Heaven (as I should (???)) and... He's not going to like that. (???)".

Annnnd then Dean punches the cupid in the face, which... Good point, Cas, he indeed doesn't "like that".

So what are those steps highlighted by the ending of that scene? Well, Cas is an angel. Dean is clueless about so many things. He doesn't have faith. Cas isn't exactly free. It's just always about the plan and the mission, whatever comes up in their tumultuous adventures together, it always brings them right back to the core of why there's still such a long way to go: who they are.

All in all, that scene is just. Imagery there, imagery here, reference after reference, big red arrows (yes, I'm using "arrows" in the context of a cupid episode, I fully intend this sentence to have a double meaning) pointing at Dean and at Cas and at them both together. It's not necessarily a direct reference at either of them being bi, although for obvious reasons that's not exactly off the table either, it's sort of a piece of foreshadowing for what's to come, both in that season itself, and the rest of their relationship (here I use "relationship" as a term meaning something like "friendship-that-evolves-into-something-more-later-on").

In short, I'd like to conclude (you can use that as a TL;DR) by quoting my brain when I first saw that flag and connected a couple dots:

"lol bi".

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zmediaoutlet · 1 year

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with the constant vow, do you think john would've been able to cure dean? like if it had happened in stanford era, for instance

...man, that's a ponderer. (happy wincest wednesday -- idk if that's when you sent this but let's just go with it.) um -- do spoilers for the fic matter? Well, there'll be spoilers here, if anyone cares.

Let's just relocate the entire thing to Stanford Era, as you say. 2003, Dean's 24, him and John are still working together but the separation is beginning. Given the two-part nature of the curse and cure, I think...

Yes, John would be able to turn Dean back into a guy. He does care for Dean and love him and his love is... complicated, let's say that, haha. The fact that he would work is telling about the emotional incest of their whole situation. He's entangled with Dean in a way that Bobby, for example, isn't, even if he's not Dean's fuckoff actual soulmate. (One benefit of this scenario: they wouldn't try Bobby as a substitute. I can see John throwing a random stranger at Dean, but not Bobby. One horribly awkward bullet dodged!)

That said, the iterative nature of the curse would continue, much as it did for Sam and Dean, because the second part of it was that Dean had to believe it, and as long as it took him to really lock in to Sam, he never could with John. Not quite, not really, where it counted. We see a deep and true ambivalence about John in Dean, not just when he's older with the benefit of hindsight but all the way back then, as a kid. It comes up over and over: he loves John and also knows, deep, that John doesn't really have his best interests at heart; he knows that John loves him and he knows that John will treat him as a useful tool, to be cared for but discarded if need be. Even in his most devoted moments there's this almost hysterical pleading edge -- like if he just says it loud enough, maybe he can believe it's true. Not the kind of bone-deep certainty that the curse required to lift. He and John would never get to that dawn in the desert in Albuquerque, even with a month's worth of closeness and intimacy in the rearview.

The reason for that is, of course, my pigheadedness about characters' meta roles in the story. God can never reach a true sympathy with Michael or Lucifer. He necessarily has to be external, looking away, his plans always in motion. John always always always has to be most focused on the revenge for Mary or he's not John -- and what's the point, if he's not John?

That leaves us, though, with a fun AU, posited by fic!Sam at some point in one of the latter chapters but here the only option left: John and his two-part child, female most of the time and male when it'll be useful. You can see him fucking Dean into masculinity to be more useful in a fight or to go see a hunter who knows them, and then waiting until the next moonrise for Deanna to appear, who'd be able to do an undercover op or winkle more information out of someone, etc. Maybe John bails for a month or two to work on something and Dean's left alone to meet the equivalent of a Cassie, but it's a guy instead, and when John comes back -- now that's a weird moment, huh? (Dean not able to risk getting too close to that guy, in case he unexpectedly changes, and then... although what a way to break up with someone, lol.) You do then wonder if Dean or John would ever consider going to Sam to see if he could cure it. I wonder if John would think of it and then decide against it. (I wonder if Deanna would show up in Sam's apartment in 2005, stuck as a girl for weeks and weeks because Dad was supposed to call and never did, and look at Sam with his arm around some other girl's neck, and think -- what if--?)

#answers #the constant vow #ig i should include that other answer in the tag too #it's a super fun au tho anon #like man. what another great way to force them into:#the full house of wincest #bc i can see it as john really never wanting to fuck dean #but the enmeshment is unavoidable #and who else loves dean? no one #so what else are they supposed to do?#... :D :D :D

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shallowrambles · 1 year

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I'm so bothered by the fetishization of twins and triplets, actually. If I could erase anything, it'd be the flippant references to this. :(

To be clear, I'm not pro-purity culture. I just- this one stings and I have to literally curate my experience so hard because of it

I can't stand when it's used as "code" for "queer experience" either because it's just positioning queer as "unnatural / evil," and that bothers the heck outta me when they're equated. Inappropriate boundary crossing, grooming, and abuse =/= insta-queer. It's like HMMM. The way ppl stan the crowley hookup when it's a shows canon incest kink interest squicks the fuck outta me and like...the whole Demon!Dean is a study in disinhibition! Disinhibition was shown as very evil / shameful / uncomfortable experience for Dean, like, the entirety of season 10...Sam even tries to comfort him about it. But because Crowley-Dean supports those sides of Dean ppl want in their ships, they overlook that aspect of it.

There's also the American-ness of howling at the moon and total "I do what I WANT" as being a good thing, when it's clearly shown as...not. There's gotta be balance, man.

Reduced inhibition is OFTEN used as circumvention of consent, as Dean recounts in his John-and-the-bar story. And disinhibitions are ofc not always a reflection of true self. I'm thinking of a neuro unit, where an injured TBI survivor hits on his granddaughter. Is that his "true personality?" Of course not! It's a loss of free will, judgment, and choice due to the injury and/or disinhibition.

And this is a show about free will, after all.

Drinking and drugging tend to ‘loosen you up’ by reducing inhibitions. But they remove your judgment and CHOICE about things, too. That's not necessarily free will. Reduced inhibitions can be enjoyable, but they can also create risks and dangers. Our inhibitions serve to keep us acting within an acceptable threshold; reducing these inhibitions can push you past the threshold.

Drug addiction is sometimes potrayed as "freeing" but ofc that isn't the complete story. Even so, the show doesn't agree that the punishment fits the crime. Like Crowley, Randy is complex, and he has real feelings and emotions for his relationships!

I feel like the Claire episode puts this in full display:

///

10x09

DEAN: All right, so I get there. I sneak in, and it is nuts. I mean, people are drinking and they’re smoking and they’re—they’re snorting whatever. There’s a five-hundred pound guy on stage with a Mohawk just screaming. And, uh, my mind is blown. I don’t even know what to do. Then this girls walks up and she says “Hey, why don’t you come over and sit down with me and my friends at our table?” All right!

SAM: Yeah, and they get him drunk. First time.

DEAN: But not fun drunk. I’m not quite sure what was in that stuff, but the room starts to spin, and I feel like I’m going to puke … forever. And right about that time, I hear him. “Dean Winchester!”

[Cas looks confused, but Sam just smiles.]

DEAN: My old man. I don’t know how, but he found me. And now I’m really freaking out, because he’s just standing there, not saying anything. I look around, and everybody else is freaking out, too. In fact, nobody’s even looking him in the eye. And finally, this one guy with, like, a safety pin through his nose and a—a “Kill Everything” tattoo looks up and he says, “Sorry, sir.”

---

[Claire is sitting on a bed by herself when she hears footsteps. The door opens, and Salinger is standing there. He motions for his men to leave, and he turns to Claire.]

SALINGER: Hi. [He finishes off his beer, then turns and locks the door.] It’s Claire, right?

[She won’t look at him, until he’s standing in front of her. He reaches down, taking hold of her chin, making her look up at him.]

You really are a pretty one, you know that?

[She lifts her leg, kneeing him in the groin. She runs to the door and tries to unlock it, but Salinger is right behind her, grabbing her as she screams.]

[One of Salinger’s men opens the front door to find Cas, Sam, and Dean standing there. Cas lifts a hand, and the man goes flying backwards.

CASTIEL:

Where’s the girl?

[They hear screaming come from upstairs. In the room, Claire is screaming, trying to fight Salinger off. He’s trying to hold her down, and the door flies open. Castiel is standing there, and Salinger turns to look at him, giving Claire enough of an opening to kick Salinger in the face and get up. She kicks him, over and over again.]

CASTIEL: Claire. Claire!

[Castiel grabs her arm, and she finally stops kicking. Cas leads her from the room. They walk downstairs, and Claire moves away from Cas.]

[Claire climbs into the back seat of the Impala, and Castiel sits beside her. Claire smiles.]

CASTIEL: Are you okay?

CLAIRE: Yeah.

[She moves over, laying her head on Castiel’s chest, wrapping her arms around him. Cas hugs her back. Sam climbs in the front seat and glances back. He turns his head back towards the house as he hears shouting, then leaves the car as fast as he can.]

///

10x10

(Scene changes to Castiel pacing in the bunker library.)

CASTIEL: She barely speaks to me.

(Sam comes into view, sitting.)

CASTIEL: She’s like a wounded animal, just watching me.

SAM: Look, Cas, you know what? You really tried to do the right thing that night. You did. This guy Claire was hanging out with, Randy, all he did was use her.

CASTIEL: Well, she thought he was kind. And for that, she loved him. Shows how little kindness there was in her life. You know, whatever Randy did, he didn’t deserve –

SAM: No, yeah, I know, I know. I hear you. Dean has had to kill before. We both have. But that was –

DEAN: That was what?

(Sam rises, surprised. Dean walks in from the war room.)

SAM: Dean.

DEAN: That was a massacre. That’s what it was. (Dean looks from Sam to Cas.)

DEAN: There was a time I was a hunter, not a stone-cold killer?

(Cas and Sam look troubled.)

DEAN: You can say it. You’re not wrong. I crossed the line. Guys, this thing’s gotta go.

(Dean looks down at the Mark of Cain on his arm.)

///

And 10x22

MR. McKINLEY: By suggesting my daughter was a slut?

DEAN: I'll admit that thought crossed my mind. Then I came here, and I smelled the deceit and the beatings and the shame that pervade this home.

MR. McKINLEY: You shut your face right now.

DEAN: And you know what? I don't blame Rose anymore. No wonder she put on that skank outfit and went out there looking for validation, right into the arms of the monster that killed her. (Dean looks at Mr. McKinley and in a very calm voice says) Joe, who did this?

#tw incest #ah the villainous incest trope #i'm so TIRED sometimes #like it's incest it's literally the fetishization of incest #usually it's written off as NOT COUNTING when it's women #and it's lifted up as heroic proof of queerness when it's men and i #I LIKE difficult topics #but demon dean is not portrayed positively #there's a balance between inhibitions and disinhibitions #like when your grandad gets a front lobe injury and comes on to you #that's not indicative that he secretly wants you it's JUST disinhibition which taken too far can BE THE REMOVAL of free will

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