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nyerusnova · 8 months

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Glad to see that Tim being a giant Dick Grayson fanboy is finally being highlighted again, and sparking more discussion especially on their early relationship! (Please gimme more!!! I love them so much, augh!)

Probably as a result of that surge, there seems to be reciprocal chatter on the topic of how young Tim actually felt towards Jason, too. It's honestly pretty interesting, because it's more nuanced than it appears at first glance.

Which means it's very fun to dissect! ✨

There's a degree of subjectivity to keep in mind, because readers are going to have different interpretations of the same scenes, or will pull from entirely different scenes than one another to form their individual view on this topic. That's just how it is in comic book fandom, for many things! Regardless, in this case... if the scale ranges from the extreme of "Jason was Tim's Robin" to the other extreme of "Tim actually hated Jason [as Robin] or thought he was a loser that got himself killed" — the actual truth is closer to the middle, as is often the case.

At least, in my opinion.

Mainly I want to focus on those relatively early days with this post, to highlight Tim's initial(-ish) feelings towards his heroes, and touch on the point at which they really begin to change. This turned into a very long post, though. Brevity is beyond my skill, so grab snacks and water lol. Transcripts for each image will be posted at the very end under the cut.

So, the two storylines I want to cover are "Rite of Passage," which is rolls into "Identity Crisis." (NOT to be confused with the major crossover event "Identity Crisis™" which came years later, and is where Jack Drake dies.... But it sure is an interesting coincidence that Tim deals with the loss of each parent in two similarly named stories!) These take place before Tim is even Robin, and I'll be considering them as one arc for this post.

Detective Comics vol. 1 #618 (July, 1990) -- Pages 1 & 2

"When Gotham needed him, he was there. When the Batman needed him, he was there. He was a hero."

"One day, I'll be as good as Jason. One day I'll wear the suit."

To start off, we have this opening from "Rite of Passage." Tim is still in training here, mainly helping Bruce with minor stuff from the cave. His parents are off traveling, alive and well as of these next few pages. He's still bright-eyed and full of wonder. An extraordinarily weird but ultimately innocent kid.

So his view on Jason is positive and fairly simple: a hero, and someone to look up to as Robin. Clearly, Tim here doesn't think Jason was deficient in his role, either as a protector of Gotham or as Batman's trusted partner.

Moreover, Tim already held Dick in very high regard because he was amazingly skilled before he became Robin. To Tim, that's not something he'll ever be able to achieve. Meanwhile, Jason wasn't like that. He was a regular kid without crazy acrobatic training since practically birth. Yet he still went on to be a hero—which is obviously motivational for Tim who finds himself in similar shoes.

It's true that Tim only ever knew or thought of Jason as Robin, and idolized him in that regard. But that's kind of all that mattered to him at that point, because he was this kid who was utterly star-struck by his heroes. Even if he's technically aware of their shortcomings as people, it's overshadowed by the hero-worship.

It was kind of the same with Bruce as Batman at first. (Which was still enough for Tim to risk life and limb to help his beloved hero, before Bruce even knew his name.) Dick was the only one Tim had any sort of "personal" relationship with beforehand, so there is an extra level of attachment—and hence why it was the nidus for his obsession with Batman. Yet even then, it wasn't like he actually knew anything about Dick as a person until later. Until then, Tim's ideas of him were all he had, too. With Jason, Tim just didn't get to know him at any point before his return (oof), apart from what he heard over the years secondhand (also oof).

Ultimately, it's the loss of innocence—along with the ricocheting bullet that is the unresolved guilt of those around him—that begins to change Tim's perception. Not just of Jason, but of things in general.

Batman vol. 1 #455 (Oct., 1990) -- Page 13

"I know why they do it now. Why they put on the suits, and the masks, and go out into the night. They're angry, they're full of rage. They want to hit back."

Losing his mother was a major shift for Tim, obviously. This is right after the previous storyline, and Tim's had the worst week or two of his life (so far). His monologue here is a reference to what happened to both Dick and Jason. The unbearable pain of loss, the rage masking the grief underneath. And importantly, that he feels both of them were justified in their anger. (And Bruce too, indirectly.)

The major theme of the aptly named "Identity Crisis" is to mirror aspects of Dick and Jason and Tim's lives—to show how they converged onto the same tragic road. It's something that Tim notices early in the story, and was frightened by. Now, horrifically, it's become a part of him as well. His parents are gone, and he was entirely helpless to do anything about it. Dick was the same way, Jason was the same way. The cycle is repeated.

In particular, the part about him wanting to go to Haiti for revenge—for his mother—sort of struck me as being an intentional parallel to Jason and Ethiopia. It's a bit of a stretch, especially in isolation, so others may see it differently (e.g. the angry ramblings of a grieving child that does sound like something anyone might say). But it always stuck out to me because of how much Tim is compared directly to Jason in this arc. More on that below.

It's not something I can really give an accurate feel of because it's a lot of subtle things that begin to add up, so I'd encourage folks to read this arc themselves to see what I mean. (Or maybe you'll still disagree which is fine too lol.) Again, many things are in reference to both Dick and Jason in relation to Tim, but it's weighted more on Jason's side.

Batman vol. 1 #455 (Oct., 1990) -- Page 18

"You think my anger will boil over, the way Jason's did. I can assure you, it won't!"

Tim's grief has begun to pull away the veil of idealism that enshrouded his heroes in his mind. It doesn't apply only to Jason, but to the rest of them. Plus add the fact that Tim's keenly aware that he's being managed, even if the adults around him are careful to not outright say certain things. He still knows.

Bruce, Dick, and Alfred are all worried about Tim potentially turning into "another Jason." They (and mainly Bruce) caution Tim to not ignore his emotions, but they're still concerned that he may be overly eager to prove himself in order to cope, and could get hurt or killed as a result. While they aren't wrong for their caution—especially at how unsettlingly similar all the circumstances are—they aren't very subtle about the elephant in the room.

Imagine how that would affect Tim's perception of his predecessor, especially when he's in the midst of a traumatic event he hasn't had time to fully process. The negative association is pretty much inevitable.

Tim's known from day one that he's walking in Jason's shadow, and now it's become inescapable. Tim went from seeing Jason as a goal to reach, to feeling that unless he surpasses him, he wasn't going to be taken seriously by anyone. However, as of this arc, Tim doesn't even fully come to that point yet.

Batman vol. 1 #456 (Nov., 1990) -- Pages 14 & 15

"Drop-outs don't make it. And dead heroes are no use to anyone!"

It's really easy to take away "Tim totally thought Jason got himself killed" as the main thing here, but I think that's missing the forest for the trees.

First some context: Bruce has gone out on a mission to get Scarecrow, and expressly forbade Tim from doing any shenanigans. Meanwhile, Tim is grappling with wanting to prove himself and trying to help Bruce from the cave, all while trying to deal with his emotions. At some point, he falls asleep and ends up having like... exhaustion-grief hallucinations of Dick!Robin and Jason!Robin who confusingly caution yet encourage him. The main theme of this part is facing your fears.

Depending on how you want to interpret the intent of Jason's dialogue here, you could go several ways with it. Ranging from "writer's feelings towards Jason" to "a peek into Tim's mind as his fears manifest as visions of his heroes" or some mixture thereof.

Though Tim argues with Bruce that Batman needs a Robin, we're shown that Tim is understandably scared of joining Batman's "war." He's still not willing to let Bruce go it alone, though, and that's something he feels more strongly than his fear.

Meanwhile, hallucination!Jason's warnings are a lamentation of what happened to him in a way, but it actually exactly describes Tim's current situation even more so. Unlike Jason, Tim is under-trained, under-experienced, doesn't even have a suit of his own yet. But like Jason, he can't sit by and do nothing while someone he cares about is in danger. Tim knows that if he goes out there, he will probably get himself killed, and it will be his own fault. So he's about to disobey Batman's orders, and fly right into danger. If that got Jason killed, then Tim—who is in a way worse position experience-wise—has every chance of ending up the same.

Like... it's about Jason, but it's also about Tim. It's Tim's worst fears made manifest, via the representation of why he is even here in the first place (Jason's death).

That's my theory anyway, but perhaps this is an overly charitable reading of this scene on my end. (Not that I think that makes me wrong lol.) However given that Grant wrote both parts of this arc, and the beginning of which is especially favorable towards Jason, it certainly is something to ponder. I have a lot of thoughts on it I can't expand on here tbh but perhaps that'll be another post.

Anyway, returning to the point of the similarities vs differences between Tim and Jason: since this is the arc that solidified Tim as the next Robin in comic continuity, it makes sense that the writers really pushed the comparisons between the two of them, specifically. (Even though Dick was pretty similar, as going against Batman's orders is the Robin thing to do, it's not his shoes Tim is directly filling.) So making Tim's "debut" story arc mirror Jason's "swansong" is an obvious narrative choice.

To drive home the parallels, I wanted to include this panel from just a few pages prior to the "daydream":

Batman vol. 1 #456 (Nov., 1990) -- Page 9

"The suit is magic."

That so distressingly close to Jason's famous "being Robin gives me magic" line (Batman #385, page 6). Given all the previous context, it's hard for me to just dismiss it as pure coincidence. Even if it is, the point still stands. Tim is shown having the some of the same heartbreakingly naive views as Jason once did, right in front of Jason's memorial, just as he's about to go and run off into the night against orders.

I think that speaks for itself. There's a lot to take away from it, if you so choose. Especially given the context of that specific Jason arc.

Alright, back to the main course:

So in the end, Tim actually goes out in civvies and a ski mask because if he fails, then at least he wouldn't bring shame to Robin's legacy™. When he gets fear gassed saving Batman, it's once again both Dick and Jason that he hallucinates encouraging him to push past his fear. (Shout out to the fact that he's literally more afraid of tarnishing the legacy of Batman & Robin than he is of dying.... I'm sure this will not be a recurring thing for him in the future.)

Tim's ideology is shown to be similar to Jason's, and the actions Tim ultimately takes are similar to Jason's... but the outcome is different. And it really isn't just "Tim succeeded where Jason failed." At least, that's not what I took away from this. Rather, Tim had no reason to succeed any more than he had to fail, just that he did. Luck combined with caution because he knew what happened to his predecessor, and the fact that Batman was there to finish the job all made the difference.

You could say (and I know some will) that it's just classic Jason character assassination and the writers trying to implore readers that this new kid is different we promise pls don't hate us look how much better he is! But in this case, that feels like it undermines the whole point of this story. It doesn't fit with what the characters actually say.

Thus, we return to the question of how Tim felt towards his predecessor. And the answer is different from where we started, because Tim is different. Not that different though. Because even though at this point Tim—like all the adults around him—has probably attributed Jason "going off on his own" being what led to his death, Tim still thought of him as a hero to look up to. It's about Robin, first and foremost, yes. But Tim is fully aware of the people who made that suit mean what it does, because it's all intertwined.

Batman vol. 1 #457 (Dec., 1990) -- Page 20

"I mean--Dick made it into a symbol the whole world knows. Jason gave his life for it."

Even further, Tim thinks of it in terms of Jason having given his life for what he believed in, for the legacy that now falls to Tim. There's a sense of gravitas there. He's afraid of failing both the Robins who came before him.

Ultimately do I think Tim adored and loved Jason on the same level as Dick or something? No. It's not comparable. (Dick was like part of some of Tim's earliest memories and everything! They have a really unique bond ok.) Yet Tim was also far from thinking poorly of Jason so early on. Frankly, it seems that Tim thought of Jason as a noble hero and a cautionary tale. Yes he took risks and sometimes went too far, generally stuff that Tim doesn't want to repeat and all that. At the same time, Tim still saw him as someone whose legacy and memory was worth honoring.

It's complicated, which is why I like it so much—because it feels real. Having conflicting feelings towards someone is... so human. Especially someone you never got to know, yet who plays such an integral role in your life via the shadow of their death. How can you feel anything but complicated towards them?

It has to be said that, yes, Tim's views—even before Jason's return—change over the years. He becomes more jaded as a person and is surrounded by people who are even more jaded than him... and who often mention Jason as the "failed Robin." It's something that's hung over Tim's head all the damn time. The curse of the Robin mantle.

So it shouldn't come as a surprise that Tim's idea of him becomes more akin to "sounds like a skill issue" as the years go by. All bets are off after Jason's return, and the Titans Tower Incident™. At that point it's firmly "I am better than you, loser" lmao.

And... that's all without getting too into things like authorial intent and general "moods" of different DC writers towards Jason at a given point. Or retcons that played a role in his characterization and how other characters talk about him, depending on what "era" you're reading. That's way beyond the scope of this post though!

TLDR; even though young Tim Drake was obsessed with Dick Grayson as Robin, he still looked up to Jason Todd as well. He didn't think of Jason as a cringefail loser until later. :)

(image dialogue transcripts under cut ↓)

Dialogue Transcript for Image 1 (Detective Comics vol. 1 #618 -- Page 1):

Narration box (Tim): When Gotham needed him, he was there. When the Batman needed him, he was there. He was a hero.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 2 (Detective Comics vol. 1 #618 -- Page 2):

(Scene continued from previous page)

Narration box: But he was nothing special, really. Just a boy, who was taught--trained--brought to his full potential by someone who knew how. Just a boy... like me. I know I can do it. I know I can. One day I'll be as good as Jason. One day I'll wear the suit. One day I'll be a hero.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 3 (Batman vol. 1 #455 -- Page 13):

Tim: I hate him! I hate him! I know why they do it now. Why they put on the suits, and the masks, and go out into the night. They're angry. Full of rage. They want to hit back. They want to fill the hole that's burning inside them.

Bruce: There's more to it than that, son. Much more.

Tim: I know. It's just--I feel--like going to Haiti myself and strangling that creep with my bare hands!

Bruce: The Obeah Man will spend the rest of his life in a prison hospital. He's history. Forget him! But don't fight against your anger. It's natural. Accept it. Live with it. One day it'll be your friend.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 4 (Batman vol. 1 #455 -- Panels from page 18):

Tim: Because you think my mother's death has upset me too much. Well, it did. But I've taken your words to heart. I can cope. You think my anger will boil over, the way Jason's did. I can assure you, it won't. But that doesn't make any difference, does it? Why can't you have a little faith in me?

Dialogue Transcript for Image 5 (Batman vol. 1 #456 -- Page 14):

Narration box (Tim): Blast it! My head's starting to swim. I'm about ready to give up. I almost wish I'd never heard of Batman and Robin!

Vision Dick: Heroes never give up, Tim.

Vision Jason: You know that.

Tim: Dick--! Jason Todd!

Vision Dick: You're training to fight in a war, Tim. It'll last all your life. No matter what, you have to go on fighting.

Vision Jason: Drop-outs don't make it. And dead heroes are no use to anyone! I thought I knew better than Batman. I thought I could run before I could walk. I killed myself, Tim. Because I couldn't wait. Because I couldn't think it through.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 6 (Batman vol. 1 #456 -- Page 15):

(Scene continued from previous page)

Vision Dick: Think, Tim. Concentrate!

Vision Jason: You can do it.

Both: You can do it!

Tim, waking up: What--? Robin...?

Narration box (Tim): I must have been daydreaming. They're right, though. There's a solution to everything. I can find it! So here I go again... Whim. Caprice. Doing something without forethought.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 7 (Batman vol. 1 #456 -- Panel from page 9):

Narration box (Tim): The suit is magic. It gives you power. It hides your weakness. It makes you give it everything you've got. It makes you a hero. If only I could!

Dialogue Transcript for Image 8 (Batman vol. 1 #457 -- Page 20):

Bruce: Are you afraid of it?

Tim: No. It isn't fear. It's more... the suit carries so much history. I mean--Dick made it into a symbol the whole world knows. Jason gave his life for it. Failing them--what they fought so hard to build--that's what worries me!

Bruce: I appreciate that, Tim. That costume weighs a whole lot more than any symbol should... and I'd be failing you if I expected you to bear that weight. So... let me know what you think.

Narration box: A mask has a double edged, he said. It hides your own anxiety as it strikes fear into your enemy.

#tim drake #jason todd #dcu #dc comcis #batfamily #meta #I'm so sorry this post got out of hand fr #it was meant to be a quick drabble with some comic panels and instead i just...... kept going #this post is specifically for my one (1) bestie who cares and the like 2 ppl who might be as insane as me about Timmy #idk why I'm like this im just obsessed with Tim's relationship with early Batfam & co lately???#late 80 and early 90s comics my beloveds......#anyway if this gets more than 5 notes i'll be shocked and scared lol #nyerus.txt #text post #long post

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rubra-wav · 2 months

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[ Entry #10 ] What it would be like actually dating Vox hcs

A/N I love Vox, but the reality of it is that he'd be terrible for a lot of reasons and I'm not gonna sugarcoat it in here like at all.

Me when theoretically very complex but ultimately still extremely problematic character: *foaming at mouth*

I love him.. but God I also hate him... but I also love hi-

This is a long one jfc.

Cw: Nsfw - no smut but strong themes, discussion of toxic relationships, manipulation, discussion of emotionally abusive/controlling behaviour, insecure aa toxic cis man behaviour, suggestive at one point

Someone asked me what I thought he'd be like with a yes-man reader so here it is

The worst out of the way first

The thing about Vox is that he's got a fuckton of baggage and bad traits that need desperate management, and they would sure as hell not be being managed by him on his own choice.

As his partner, you would NOT be able to be a pushover or shy away from any kind of confrontation about actions that have upset you because if Vox had a partner like this? He'd become the absolute worst version of himself in your relationship because you would not be calling him out or enforcing boundaries with him.

- He's insecure, and it's in the worst way possible.

And not in the 'aw he just needs to be loved and then he'll be healed' way. I'm talking in the 'toxic, refuses to remedy his own behaviours, becomes very emotionally abusive abt it if you don't pull up your boots and confront him abt it and make sure he actually does shit about it' way.

The fanfic community likes to portray him as a victim in the relationship with Val, and while it's true Val is certainly worse for obvious/overt reasons - He's still not just a victim in that situation. He's also terrible.

Just for reasons that are less overt and are thus overshadowed a lot. Acknowledging that doesn't make the shit Val (at least seemingly thus far. Vox side-stepped the drink being thrown pretty fast and seems accustomed to violent tantrums) does to him any less terrible, it's just the truth he's not a poor defenceless victim in that. (Vox literally goes to try use his mind control power on Val the second he seems like he's gonna damage their image then throws his lowest earners under the bus.)

- In the beginning if you aren't giving him attention at all times, do something that reminds him of Valentino even slightly, or if you do something that he just mildly doesn't like; then he will be passive aggressive or straight up aggressive as absolute fucking hell.

The second he feels slighted even a little bit, he's going to be so pissy.

- And he can't communicate for absolute shit. He thinks you are doing shit on purpose to piss him off or hurt him. This is due to his relationship with Val, but it's not him being a sad sob story kind of thing (not all around at least), he will be awful to you if you allow him to ever be just a victim who can do no wrong.

- He will project all his bs heavily onto you in the beginning with complete self awareness and no thought given to managing his own shit.

If you ask what's wrong when he's acting up he probably would be the type of bitch to go 'nothing's wrong' and will then proceed to ruminate upon it until he ends up exploding about it later on. Or, maybe he'll even do the 'you know what you've done' type of shit.

- He would probably expect you to be a mind reader and when you inevitably aren't aware of wtf is happening because he hates being emotionally vulnerable at all and can't describe what's going on properly for himself, he will be an absolute bitch about it. (Carried here from my other hc that he has a bunch of self-imposed toxic masculinity he needs to deconstruct)

- If you call him out, he will likely try to convince you he's not doing it.

- He'll become increasingly more self-aware of his behaviour you are aware of and will just be even worse because he hates that you could see something about him he doesn't want you to see.

Basically, he feels embarrassed as fuck about it, and cannot apologise because that's humiliating as all hell to him, so instead of turning inwards and dealing with his crap he then proceeds to consciously project shit onto you even when he knows he's in the wrong.

He'd rather argue the wrong point and behaviour than admit he's capable of making mistakes.

He will probably also try to hypnotise you into forgetting anything he thinks is undesirable you know about him too.

- You will need to actually teach him real consequences for his actions, but also need to be assuring him that you aren't going to do shit like Val would have or leave him for someone else and shit like that simultaneously.

He needs to essentially be taught consequences, boundaries, healthy relationship behaviour, etc. From absolute scratch. I would literally pay for this cunts therapy atp istg.

- And this is gonna be an absolute fucking nightmare because again, he doesn't want to admit that he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing and that he's in the wrong. All that interferes with his image he wants to put out at all times in your relationship with him.

He's got masks on masks. Even one for your relationship. The second that cracks in any regard, he's gonna be rushing to compensate for that, and if that doesn't work, he's gonna be pissed and most likely end up pushing that onto you.

- Speaking of image. I mentioned this in a fic, but he'd most likely be extremely controlling over your freedom to disclose your relationship, too. If he thought you would look poor as a partner for his reputation (ie. Low status, bad reputation), he'd most likely never want to publicly reveal your relationship no matter how much he loves you - he'd likely hide this completely behind you having privacy but if you say you want people to know anyway he's going to slowly become more and more overtly pissy about it.

And, if you are openly known to be in a relationship, he will be wanting to control your own image as well.

If you step one foot out of line of what he deems perfect, good lord he will be an absolute nightmare.

- Also mentioned in another post, but he would absolutely also watch you through cameras you don't know are there. Same as what he's seen doing with Val.

- He's got practically zero qualms in the beginning of your relationship with violating your privacy or boundaries if he thinks he'll get away with it/that you won't find out about it. This also likely goes for things like checking your texts, calls, and search history without permission.

- The possibility that he'd try to interfere with your personal relationships if he thought they would try drag you away from him or if they take up a lot of your attention is also pretty present.

He's an incredibly jealous person (as seen by him seeming jealous of Angel with Val of all people), so the second he sees you giving someone else positive attention? He's gonna be fucking furious.

- Again, you could not be a pushover in your relationship with him because he'd be absolutely awful. You'd have to basically be reality checking him every three seconds - it's NOT for the faint of heart and even if you're incredibly patient you will probably be going insane from it at points.

Implying you can actually get him to change tho he would become a lot better - he's gonna be fighting you on practically everything because the second he feels out of control of a situation or himself he's gonna be freaking out.

He will probably be straight up terrified if it seems like you are making him 'change', even if it's for the better and will ultimately ALSO benefit him too.

The SECOND he feels out of control of a situation in any way, he will be terrible.

- Also, if you manage to push him on the path to behaviour management this cunt will be looking smug and proud of himself as all hell the second he even slightly does what you ask and will be a bitch if you don't rain down praise on him for it. 💀

- He's so positive attention motivated it's actually pathetic lmao

With that out of the way - the slightly better/good other stuff

- Vox works fucking nightmare hours with his position in hell, and he hates not being able to be around you much so he's almost always trying to make it up to you.

- He'll be on calls with you or texting you most hours of the day (even when he probably should not be) because he's honestly clingy as hell.

If you don't like having a million notifications from someone blowing up your phone with random shit then you are not going to like being apart from him because he is chronically on his phone.

- Another thing is the gifts.

If you want a sugar daddy aa boyfriend? This is the man for you because my God will he shower you with the most expensive gifts you have ever received. New phones, cars, jewellery, clothes, so on so on.

It's bad if you don't like consumerism and want to keep devices even if newer ones come out because the second something new comes out he's getting it for you - even before it becomes publicly available to the rest of hell, it's in your hands. He wants the best stuff and only the best stuff for you. How would that make him look if his partner didn't have all the best stuff? To you and also others

- Also, the second you mention you actually want or need something? It's there right in front of you. Bro has personal delivery drones, and it will be there in under 15 minutes delivered to you or someone's getting shot.

- I've seen a few people imply gift giving is his primary love language, and it's certainly up there, but I personally think that it's more likely acts of service.

This man never does anything for anyone unless it's to keep things from being annoying to him, self gain, or damaging his image. So for him to do things for you that he knows you want from him even if he doesnt particularly want to? He is well and truly in love with you, and that would be how he'd let you know that even if he isn't self-aware of it, lmao.

He doesn't like being told to do things, but he's really good at picking up on what people want usually (unless he's being delulu) so if he notices something or you mention stuff off-hand? He'll try to do it/get it/whatever it is for you.

Material things are just material things. He's rich, it doesn't mean that much to drop thousands for him. Him actually doing things for you, though? Even if it doesn't benefit him at all? That's something else entirely.

Will be annoying asf if you don't thank him enough for it, though. Ie. "Well, you're welcome then." While pouting at you.

- As for spending time with him:

I believe he constantly wants to be alone with you and only with you when he actually has time to do so, so he only wants dates to be one-on-ond most of the time.

There aren't exactly limits upon that, though, like at all.

He's absolutely rich and has ridiculous privileges so you could be on comfy home dates where you two just stay in and cuddle after eating dinner, or seeing concerts/watching movies/etc exclusively where they are not available to just anyone, or something fucking ridiculous like eating a fancy dinner at a custom designed restaurant just for dates under a goddamn aquarium (very likely ngl)

The second he gets to show off his power, he's gonna do it with a smug grin.

- He's also extremely big on physical touch but would never admit it. I already go over this in another entry, but he's gonna have a hand on you at all times (hand on your waist, hip or shoulder, purposely brushing against you more then he logically has to be, etc)

Brief mentions of sexual stuff here

I feel like he'd love someone big on physical touch - both in a sexual way but also especially in a non-sexual way.

He's not used to getting someone cuddling him or holding his hands or literally just touching him at all without some underlying ulterior motive, so he'd probably just melt into your touch.

Also I'll link the post bc there's further takes on this in it but they are ✨️sus✨️

- He would be extremely protective of you- this can absolutely become one of the blue sections really easily- but if you're in a relationship he's gonna be constantly concerned about your safety and whether you are at risk.

I mean, you're in hell. Just about anyone could turn out to be some maniac (ironic he would think that 🤨)

Anyways, point is, you'd be safe from any other maniacs. He would give you the best security and protection probably in hell.

Another thing is that he's gonna be super paranoid at all times about whether you're safe or not. Which would probably get honestly annoying rather than endearing at a point. 💀

- Even though he's really against revealing his more vulnerable parts and what he doesn't think are desirable of himself, he's absolutely craving emotional security with someone.

So when you get him passed that? He's gonna be so goddamn clingy - even more then before lmao.

Ending note

He's an absolute nightmare who's high maintenance asf and could become extremely abusive emotionally, but he really also needs to be romanced properly for that to actually get better by a partner who won't take his bs and knows how to take him down a peg and put him in his place when he's being awful.

And definitely therapy.

The fact that I think all this and know how much an awful person he is and still love him this much as a character has gotta indicate some sort of insanity/j

[ Masterlist ]

#hes really really problematic and just gross for a lot of reasons and i dont see a lot of people really acknowledging that in a lot of stuf #which kinda??? me because i feel like to properly love his character you need to actually acknowledge hes a piece of shit who you would -#avoid like the plague irl.#hes my little chatterbox fr tho <3 #and i dont say that with the intent of dismissing what an asshole he is #he needs the worlds biggest humbling and reality check and power check on EARTH man #ive been writing this forever and im kinda scared i havent been able to portray my thoughts properly but if i dont post this it will prob-#never be posted with my perfectionism 💀#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel vox #vox headcanons #vox #vox x reader #hazbin hotel vox x reader

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