system responsibility

oh, the dreaded discourse. our opinion on this is honestly pretty simple. it depends what was done. if an alter in your system broke up with their partner there is no need to apologize as that is their choice and you can't make them not break up with someone they're dating. if an alter in your system broke up with your partner, then yes you probably should apologize if you do not want to break up with them. this goes for anything, if they did something that was their choice to make and no one was hurt, then you don't have to apologize. if they did something that wasn't their choice to make and did hurt someone then you should apologize and take responsibility. you don't need to feel guilty, you just need to apologize, even if it isn't exactly genuine, just don't be shitty about it.

On the note of system accountability and such, one other thing I wanted to mention is: learning to be responsible for your system actually helps a lot with the whole "we hate each other and they keep doing bad things" part of being a system.

When we started holding ourselves accountable for what another part did, instead of just passing it off as Their Problem, we... actually started helping each other through the problems. Remarkably, when a part is lashing out, it's likely that they need help just like any other fucking person would?

Incredible, I know, but just displaying the ability to say, "It wasn't my fault, it was theirs, but I forgive them enough to help them through this" does wonders for your relationship with your parts.

Ok actually I might actually have something to say on this. I originally wasn't because the idea of system responsibility/accountability seems like such a no brainer to me I couldn't even think of a response to that thread going around right now that wasn't just "lol, no". Like, if we both have the same information on the topic and that's the conclusion you've come to about it then I simply cannot help you.

I also dislike conversations about things being anti-recovery because there's always nuance where you simply cannot definitively say something is or isn't anti recovery in a way that applies to everyone. I have decided, however, that this topic might actually be dangerously anti-recovery for a lot of people and I'm probably just being a pussy not wanting to poke the hornets nest by avoiding it. So here goes.

A huge complication of this, is of course, the dissonance between therapeutic and community settings. The two will never line up, they will never wholly agree with each other, and there will always be conflict. You can never seamlessly take advice from one, and apply it to the other, not least of all because neither the community nor the therapists we see make up a cohesive hive mind. There are different goals, different methods to achieving those goals, and disagreements on what those goals should be.

That being said, let's at least explore these ideas in their correct contexts and see if it can at least expand our perception and understanding of them. You don't need to relate to these scenarios, simply try to see the topic from the hypothetical systems point of view.

Therapeutic Setting

The host of a system presents at a therapists office. She is aware of her alters and has good relations with many of them but struggles to manage her day to day life. She suffers from an intense fear of abandonment and has incredibly low self esteem. There are several alters in her system that she is deeply concerned about that have created conflict in her life. One is sexually promiscuous and has ended relationships by sleeping with people other than her partners, one that harms the body and is hostile towards her including strongly negative critical thoughts, and one that is dedicated to permanently ending friendships and relationships by being extremely cruel and harmful to the people she cares about. She is very scared of these alters and wants nothing to do with them, she resents them for what they have done and is scared of what they might do. Her goal in therapy is to create greater harmony within her system, to have better collaboration with her alters and reduce the amount of internal and external conflict in her life.

The therapeutic approach in this scenario would be to remind the host that the alters she is afraid of are the result of traumatic events, and formed as part of a defence mechanism to protect her younger self, but that these defence mechanisms have likely gotten stuck and may no longer be appropriate to help with the problems they seek to solve. These alters may also feel alienated from the rest of the system, they might feel like they are being unfairly punished for trying to help and resent the host for pushing them away and punishing her back. Therefore, the path to resolving this issue is to accept these alters for who they are and what they're trying to do. To be grateful for the help they provided in the past and how much they must care for her to do what they do. To work on the fear and apprehension, because everyone in the system is part of the same brain and so will know if she doesn't really mean it, so that everyone can be brought closer together and work collaboratively towards common goals. After all, they all share the same brain, the same body, and must live the same life and what affects one will affect the other.

Community Setting

The host of a system enters the online system community. They are not the original host of the system, and do not go by the bodies name. They join system discord servers as well as follow many systems on social media platforms such as TikTok. They feel at home in these spaces as they are very alter centric. They, and the rest of their system are encouraged to share details about themselves, write lengthy bios, and differentiate themselves from each other. This works well for everyone in the system because it provides a freedom of self expression that is absent from their real world life. The alters find it very validating to establish their own identities and be treated as their own individual selves. These feelings are reinforced by sentiments shared in their communities that no one should force them to fuse, that fusion is equivalent to death, and that parts language is dehumanising. The system does not feel the need to seek therapeutic support as they are happy as a system and have heard accounts that made them wary of being invalidated by a therapist.

There is one alter, however, that likes to get up to mischief and create drama. They often front momentarily to leave inflammatory remarks, don't abide by community guidelines, and keep getting them into trouble. They post to Reddit to ask for advice on how to stop them when they're someone else and they can't control what they do and are told "your alters aren't different people, they're part of you and so it's up to you to work with them to change their behaviour". Well that doesn't sound right. The alter isn't them, that's the whole point of being a system. They decide instead that there's simply nothing they can do about it, that alter has nothing to do with them and controlling their actions would be like trying to control a random person on the street

Now it's completely understandable why two systems from these two settings would come away with completely different perceptions of what being a system is like. Why one would find the other anti-recovery and the other would find the other invalidating. But there is a key commonality between them, and that is both systems are distancing themselves from the alters causing issues, one through fear, and the other through absolvement.

System responsibility in both cases, therefore, is to accept their role in the conflict as an active participant and seek to resolve it. In the therapeutic setting it's to recognise that the hosts fear and resentment, if understandable, is contributing to the furthering of conflict and reactionary behaviour from the alters in question. For the latter system, it's to accept that as individual and different each person within the system is, they still share one body, share one life, use the same phone or computer, and have the same accounts. That they do not get special rights as a system that singlets do not. That if they want access to spaces where they can all be themselves then they all need to agree to abide by the rules or none of them will have access to protect the other members of the community.

Neither of these are nice or enjoyable or easy things to accept, but, and this is the really crucial bit, if you don't take responsibility for your system or your role in an alters behaviour, then you are consenting to the behaviour by your refusal and whether you accept it or not, others will hold you accountable for doing so.

So what's it to be? Do you want your friends and partners to be hurt and lose your access to spaces that you find so affirming? Or do you want to put in the work to build communication, participation, and collaboration with your system so that you can all enjoy your individual lives together?

Hello! I'm new to discovering that I might be part of a system, and I very much enjoy brutal/dark media, but now I am worried of gaining a fictive from an "evil" source, are there any precautions or anything else I should do in order to keep enjoying this? or should I simply stop all contact with that media?

okay, so how we see interest is this:

there is a risk of any media to cause a fictive. Here’s some things to think about:

Are you willing to help them heal if they have trauma from their source?

what would you do if they act like their source?

and finally: Does this media make me happy and is not negatively impacting my mental health? Am I willing to risk the possibility? Even if it is impacting my mental Health, am I okay with risking this possibility?

These things do happen. In our own experience we have a fictive from the book Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (which is where those two characters come from, although in the book it’s about addiction and the duality of a Victorian Gentleman, not a split personality thing, still a lot of bad stuff in it.) because of how much impact that book meant to us as the time. (This is way before we knew we were plural) They formed as a persecutor and that was something we had to deal with and work through.

You cannot change the past, you can only improve for the future.

So yeah, just keep in mind these things. It is okay to have alters from bad sources but if they do something bad, then you and everyone else will have to take responsibility.

also keep in mind, not all introjects (fictives, factives, ect) are like their source, or even like their source.

One last thing is, show them compassion and respect, even if they are bad. Any alter can get better, and be a good person.

System responsibility means gritting your teeth and offering sincere apologies after discovering that the last time we were with my family Alice got triggered to front after a crossed boundary and screamed at my family she didn't understand why we still showed up to family visits and functions.

Fucking why, you cannot say that shit jesus fucking christ. I don't even agree with you! Even if you think that you can't say that around my fucking family omg.

I feel like we should explain some things. Parts language is not completely useless or inaccurate. In some way, you're all alters and that's good. You're a whole and you should work together for the good of your body.

But, if it leads you to dissociate that "You're just a part of me, we're connected and disconnected, we're the same person" and spiraling over and over at that point, that's bad. I've done that before, trying to talk to some fragments.

As a polyfragmented system, and so my alters aren't completely disconnected from one another, many of us are made up of fragments. For example, the main host has several fragments that connect her together, they're all her, even if they're technically different alters, they're all fused/connected together. Trying to decipher via parts language isn't helpful, because they're not individual alters. That's common throughout our entire system.

I wish we didn't have to justify our feelings and opinions on this. Our posts are supposed to be for people like us, people who agree or find hope and positivity and resolution in our posts. It wasn't even the point to completely disregard parts language, it was just saying that it wasn't always helpful. We are not that clear, but we're trying our best. Also, we're not trying to attack anyone with different opinions, we're just making space for our own. (Seriously, make your own post if you're just here to argue.)

So basically, repressing those parts because you feel like there's no control, is not a good idea. It just leads to more dissociation and rejection of them. So I really recommend you allow yourself to be, let them front in a healthy manner. Make a space for them. You need a space for other alters in order to have healthy communication. You can't just expect to have a conversation if you want ultimate control all the time.

Lessen dissociation by enjoying life as you, not shaming yourself because you exist. It's okay to just let it be and ignore all the technical parts of being a system and just be you. It can help, especially if you struggle to make decisions, and feel overwhelmed by the constant "proper/factual" information in the community. Like sure, that's great to learn about this, but it can hinder progress massively. Just log off this site and be yourself once in a while.

And being yourself isn't simple or easy, especially if you're many rats stacked up in a trench coat. Allow yourself to experience a degree of dissociation and enjoy being a different person, or letting other people front. It's going to have to be that way, if you're a system. Don't reject other alters or "parts" of you, if you truly want to work together or to integrate, then you need to accept that they exist, and not as people you can remove or ignore. It feels really good being ourselves, it feels really good to speak our minds. Please remember that. It's a good thing.

Also, whatever you do, don't punish your alters for doing things that you as an alter, regrets. You need to respect each other's feelings and opinions, and come to a civil conclusion or compromise. We usually vote on things and take it case by case. Or what priorities matter most. Attacking yourself for past decisions is silly. Attacking each other for past decisions is silly. It's okay to forgive yourself and let it go. And it's okay to discuss and ask why they did that. Being a system isn't perfect and that's okay.

Just be kind, patient and gentle, even if you see each other as just parts. You don't blame your arm for spasming out, if you tried to do something taxing. So why the hell do we blame alters who made "bad" decisions? Learn to forgive yourself and forgive other alters. You're going to have to learn to give yourself a break. And letting alters be themselves, creating a space for them, is important.

Stop being obsessively controlling over other alters. It's not helpful. You should lift each other up, not tear each other down.

shen qingqiu and the mystery of why people fear his cutest disciple

Sorry babe but if me saying I use "any and all" pronouns stresses you out, that's honestly a you problem. It's not my job to pick a "true" or "most preferred" pronoun for you to call me by when my preference is, in fact, use everything chaotically and change it up often.

If you want to ask for clarification on how I'd like various pronouns used, that's fine. But saying to my face "ah I always get stressed about any pronouns - what do I call you"? Just rude tbh. I told you my preference, figure it out. It/they/he/she/xe/zir/fae/rat/bitch/ass/motherfucker I don't care, it's not my problem.

yum! redstone!

Any au that has Jason willingly working for the government even if it’s as a social worker has automatically kinda lost me because we’re talking about someone who distrusts the system so much that as a child he chose the streets over going into custody of social services. Jason’s lack of faith in institutions continues into adulthood (but also through his original Robin tenure low key), one of the most substantial differences between his and Bruce’s philosophy is the fact that Bruce puts his faith in the law and the criminal justice system while Jason decidedly does not in the slightest

what if we had a cringe school au where moshang is that one couple that breaks up and gets back together every week

Apex predator, my ass. I’m going to pet the dog 🐻🐻‍❄️🐼

perhaps now is a good time for some responsible bear programming to remind everyone that as cute and cuddly as they may seem, bears are lethal apex predators and should absolutely be treated accordingly if ever encountered.

DO

NOT

PET

two silly guys <33

System accountability/responsibility doesn't mean you have to be nice and respectful to everyone. You don't have to be a polite person when taking responsibility.

Like if you all decide to punch someone, you all decided to do it, it's not gonna be blamed on one alter, y'all took a vote.

Anyone else saying otherwise is untrustworthy as shit. Like who's gonna say you have to be nice, when systems are made to survive?

Systems aren't palatable. Systems aren't sweet. Systems aren't friendly all the time. Suck my nut.

I clicked on that wikipedia link you posted for H. fleischmanni and was surprised to see that the section talking about the frog’s natural predators was titled “enemies” instead of “predators.” The word “enemies,” at least to me, seems strange in this context because it seems to anthropomorphize the frogs, which as far as I’m aware is something zoologists try to avoid doing with animals. Is there a scientific reason for “enemies” to be used here, as opposed to “predators”?

Regrettably, a huge number of problems of this kind have been built into Wikipedia by the Wikipedia Education Foundation-supported courses. Students carry out an 'assignment' that involves a dramatic expansion to a given wikipedia page based on any literature they can find. That revised page is then subjected to 'peer review' by their classmates. But because they are unfamiliar with (1) the literature, (2) the contents of other wikipedia pages, and (3) how wikipedia actually works, the resulting pages are often full of misinformation, redundancies, and weird formulations.

You have accurately identified one such idiosyncrasy. 'Enemies' was a very common formulation for 'predators' in the 1800s and early 1900s, but we have largely left it behind, for precisely the reason you say, and hence it sounds jarring to our ears. In this case it is a minor problem (you should have seen how the Paroedura masobe page looked before I cleaned it up), but irksome nonetheless.

svsss is, in general, a very funny series but i think the absolute funniest part is that luo binghe - a certified sex god in the original novel with a harem in the hundreds - is canonically so bad at sex that when the original version shows up and tries to blend in shen qingqiu knows something's up with him bc he is too good at kissing