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disabledunitypunk · 7 months

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Image ID: comment reading "lunod 14h ago @smolfrenchtoast my eyeglass prescription is -6.25/-6.50 and I have 4 separate eye-related conditions besides the nearsightedness. I am aware of why people wear glasses. It doesn't make it a mobility aid and it definitely means if you're trying to call it a mobility aid that you should be educated on and participating in blind/VI community and talking about issues pertaining to them."

You don't get to decide that for the entire community. "You need to be educated on participating in blind/VI community"? So far I've read more blind and visually impaired people calling their own glasses mobility aids than I've read sighted people doing so in my entire life.

But more to the point, it was a comment on this post:

The post reads:

"What about high support needs autistic people who use wheelchairs/have severe motor skill issues!"

What about them? Last I checked, you all treat them like shit and talk over them. Last I checked, half of you saying that kind of thing are still on your "autism actually makes me smarter and better than everyone else :)" schtick. In fact, are you normal about any and all stigmatized psychiatric conditions?

"Eyeglasses are mobility aids too, being mildly nearsighted makes you disabled"

Okay, and have you spoken At All about how people using white canes are treated or about genuinely any accessibility issue the blind/VI community faces? Have you talked about Any mobility aids, really?

"Psychiatric conditions are physical disabilities because it affects the brain"

Okay, and do you identify as physically disabled broadly or only when you're trying to be in cripplepunk? Have you aligned yourself with Any of Us beyond semantics arguing on the internet? Have you talked about any disability issues at all that aren't about your specific mental health diagnosis? How have you approached and reconciled the social, political, and legislative differences in how physically disabled people are treated versus mentally ill people?

Otherwise what it sounds like is you using other disabled people as tools and tokens in your arguments and that you don't actually give a shit about any of them.

Ah yes, the old, "you're tokenizing yourself!!1" argument. Because here's the thing: these points are primarily being made by multiply disabled people negatively affected by these things.

Let's take this point by point, shall we?

- What about them? Last I checked, you all treat them like shit and talk over them. Last I checked, half of you saying that kind of thing are still on your "autism actually makes me smarter and better than everyone else :)" schtick. In fact, are you normal about any and all stigmatized psychiatric conditions?

Okay, so platforming severely autistic voices is an ongoing issue in our community, one that a lot of us are working on addressing. Autism/aspie supremacy and ableism does exist on our communities - and is being shut DOWN to the point that even FACEBOOK GROUPS don't allow conditions as stigmatized as NPD and psychotic disorders to be used in their colloquial derogatory form of synonymized with abuse or a lack of ability to exercise autonomy.

Also, the existence of ableism against a subgroup does not mean people cannot bring up other forms of ableism against them. Not to mention this is a fucking spectrum. Quite frankly, the ONLY reason I don't consider my autism, which causes me to have middling to high support needs, a disorder, is because those needs are actively and continuously being met.

I am not severely autistic, but I am SIGNIFICANTLY autistic. I am the autistic person in between the person you're accusing me of tokenizing and the one you're accusing me of being.

-Okay, and have you spoken At All about how people using white canes are treated or about genuinely any accessibility issue the blind/VI community faces? Have you talked about Any mobility aids, really?

First of all, what about the people who aren't 'mildly nearsighted' who are saying this. What about the significantly visually impaired and even legally blind people who are saying this? What's with your assumption that everyone saying this is in fact privileged? You did that with autism too, because apparently none of the high support needs physically disabled autistics you're white knighting for are saying this too. Almost like you're not listening to them, the same thing you accuse us of doing.

What about the people who are talking about all those things? What about the blind/VI people who don't or even CAN'T use canes? What about the people who are simply focusing on a form of exclusion that harms them?

Finally:

-Okay, and do you identify as physically disabled broadly or only when you're trying to be in cripplepunk? Have you aligned yourself with Any of Us beyond semantics arguing on the internet? Have you talked about any disability issues at all that aren't about your specific mental health diagnosis? How have you approached and reconciled the social, political, and legislative differences in how physically disabled people are treated versus mentally ill people?

Yes. Fucking yes. The people screaming for cripplepunk inclusion are by and large ALL physically disabled. Most are physically disabled by primarily physical conditions, and simply have physical symptoms from their psychiatric disabilities as well. Most are screaming about disability issues, from physical accessibility to the struggles with their illnesses and injuries to being physically assaulted by strangers. We talk about legal issues from lack of regulations to archaic and inhumane regulations to "benefits" laws to eugenics movements like MAID. We talk about how we're being exterminated.

We talk about the differences in our treatment, but we also talk about how they're less than most people say they are. We talk about how when mentally ill and invisibly physically disabled people experience the same oppression, it is erased. We talk about the vectors along which neuroableism and corpoableism sometimes operate identically, and you don't like that.

We are not "aligning with Us" because we ARE us, and that's the whole point we've been making this whole time. As soon as we disagree with you, you strip our entire disabled identity from us. You call us "abled" and even "able-bodied". You accuse us of tokenizing ourselves and not giving a shit about disabled people when we're telling you WE ARE DISABLED PEOPLE AND OUR EXPERIENCES MATTER.

What was the point of this post? Quippy discourse to fulfill your internet superiority complex? Other than visual impairment, are you insane? Do you have stigmatized disabilities like NPD, ASPD, schizophrenia, and DID. Do you actually acknowledge the depth of stigma that exists for "acceptable" mental illnesses such as autism, ADHD, depression, and anxiety, and that the veneer of acceptance only holds up so long as we aren't symptomatic?

Do you identify as physically disabled outside of cripplepunk, or is this all projection? Because even if you are all these things, You're certainly tokenizing the rest of us.

If your point was "hey make sure you're not doing this because it's still harmful and ableist even when fighting for unity, inclusion, and safe spaces for neurodisabled physically disabled people" then you should have said that. A single line about "if you're not doing this, this post isn't about you" would have gone far. An additional line to the effect of "I'd like to think most people involved in the discourse are not doing this, but I've still seen too many" would have gone further.

Because unless you and I have seen completely different discourse, quite frankly, you're making up a strawman.

The people arguing for cripplepunk inclusion are physically disabled mobility users. The people calling glasses mobility aids are referring to their own glasses helping with vision so bad or comorbid with other conditions (such as ones affecting balance) they can't move through the world without them. The ones talking about people physically disabled by their autism who have high support needs are one or both.

I'll point again to the assumption in each point that the people saying this are the privileged ones within each group. "Last I checked, you all treat them like shit and talk over them." Not even an allowance that some of those people are saying this too. A mention of essentially autism supremacists, by their description of the type most of the community can't stand. No acknowledgement that autism is anything other than essentially "a socially awkward savant" or "a severely disabled person".

"mildly nearsighted". Aside from the fact that yes, this does still in fact make you disabled, and that you're allowed to talk about erasure of your own disability and fight back against it and name what category your disability aids fall into, it's literally primarily actual visually impaired and blind people having this conversation. How dare you.

(For reference for those that might not know, visual impairment is a specific term that does not cover visual disabilities that are fully corrected by use of glasses. Not sure if OP considers visual impairment to the point it cannot be fully corrected by glasses "mild" or if they're just erasing everyone in their community who disagrees with them entirely. Considering how they say that glasses are not a mobility aid, period, despite that experience not being universal and blind/VI people who do consider their glasses a mobility aid existing, I suspect the second.)

And finally, there it is. "Do you ALIGN yourself with Us." Not, are you one of us, but do you even consider yourself to be part of OUR group. Do you IDENTIFY AS one of us.

What does that mean? Is it quite literal? Are you saying 'do you consider yourself a physically disabled person in general when you say your neurodivergence physically disables you?' is it less literal, meaning 'are you physically disabled outside of your physically disabled neurodivergence?' Is it 'are you a disabled activist and have you done enough for our liberation to have a voice on our liberation?' None of those options are good.

Why does someone have to talk about other issues to talk about being physically disabled? Is someone with a primarily mobility disability only allowed to talk about it being physically disabling if they address general physical disabilities? What about someone with a chronic illness, whether gastrointestinal, cardiac, autoimmune, vascular, respiratory, limbic, endocrine, renal, multisystemic, other, or multiple of the above? What about someone with a sensory disability that affects their mobility?

Where do you draw the line?

Why do you draw a line?

Why must people do a deep dive into the plight of all disabled people to justify talking about their personal experiences with disability? Is it not enough to acknowledge and allow room for intersectionality - something this post seems to be actively pushing against?

Like, this is not helping. There are actually good, salient points that COULD have been made with some of these arguments, but none of them actually WERE.

It seems a bit like you're making up a guy to get mad at on the internet.

If you're not, perhaps you should make a post about them DOING these harmful things, and not that they also happen to be against mind body dualism (usually due to being materially harmed by it, as it is a key component of legal and medical ableism) and exclusion and gatekeeping in disabled spaces when talking about shared oppression and experiences.

Just a thought.

#mod stars #unitypunk #ableism #sanism #corpoableism #neuroableism #neurodisabilities #exclusionists #gatekeeping #strawman arguments

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hellyeahheroes · 7 months

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FINALLY Getting Politics OUT of Dungeons & Dragons by Tulok the Barbrarian

#thought provoking #politics #strawman arguments #satire #bad faith arguments #rpgs #d&d is inherently political #313/365

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underleveledjosh · 2 years

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"You don't like communism because you must have fallen for Capitalist propaganda" is a strawman at this point. Think of better arguments, commies. Not everyone who disagrees with you had been propagandified. Maybe consider that a lot of people dislike it based off of analysis? Like, people can think for themselves, or are you just assuming that everyone who disagrees with you lacks critical thinking?

Oh? Capitalists make propaganda? Wow. I didn't know that. It's almost as if making propaganda is something that literally all belief systems does (very heavy sarcasm).

#political post #discourse #propaganda #communism mention #communism #commies #strawman arguments #mini rant #anti communism #propaganda mention

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jack-of-aces · 3 months

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I know this is nobody’s argument but the idea gripped me and would not leave my head.

#I have an actual argument but this strawman is significantly funnier #walrus #walrus vs fairy

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2-braincells · 18 days

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one complaint abt vaggie's character is that she doesnt have much going on outside of being Charlie's Girlfriend. it could just be bad character writing, but it's also an interesting character trait. she was an angel exterminator, totally devoted to adam, doing whatever he says. once she gets kicked out, shed find something else to channel that devotion to. charlie's the perfect choice. it'd be fun to explore what vaggie would do if charlie left. she could have a whole character arc about finding who she is separate from charlie

#rain's brain #hazbin hotel #vaggie #vaggie hazbin hotel #chaggie #charlie x vaggie #how many tags are there ugh #also vaggie does have personality #maybe this is just a strawman argument wait #eh whatever call it a headcanon then

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viewpointb · 5 months

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listen. harry brewis isn't exempt to criticism. however I think it's very ironic and telling how much people have been missing the very point of his video on plagiarism and turned his name on a new topic to exploit as of late. when i was trying to look up clips of harry's older videos this came up, and the contents were about the creator clearly being disapointed her line of work (drama youtube) was disregarded as sloppy and something with no effort put into it.

while I do understand her hurt, the thumbnail and title is inherently clickbaiting potential viewers, and her point comes off as a nitpick of a segment harry made out of his own frustration with content mills and how much situations on or between content creators can be so throughly exploited for "commentary" when people don't end up saying anything at all. I think that this is a prime example of the things harry deemed important to criticise. someone who clearly had a point to make about harry's video felt the need to make sure they could milk the shit out of it.

#hbomberguy #as a long term fan it actually bothers me how people will think of harry as “the guy who murders people's reputations”#or only judge his character by this one video #because harry doesn't usually do stuff like this or at least not only stuff like this #this format is very familiar to a lot of his videos #even the ones that seem trivial #harry also talks about dangerous right wing ideologies and videogames and series he cares about #and it feels so desingenious to just label him as this big takedown video essayist who's egotistical and full of himself #yes the guy has flaws and mistakes and some of his older work isn't the most polished. don't get me wrong you are free to criticise him #but not while you are making money off something that seems like a nitpick in retrospect or using a strawman argument

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bookwyrminspiration · 7 months

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“But sometimes it feels like you don’t realize that it’s only a matter of time before something you do gets someone killed.” (Stellarlune 425-26)

“she couldn’t believe that Fitz had accused her of trying to get someone killed.” (428)

going to fist fight Sophie’s unreliable strawman narrator ass that’s not what he said at ALL

#kotlc #literally the NEXT scene #my darling dear did you even listen to a word he said??#he said be careful you could get someone killed if you’re too reckless #and she went wow. and can’t believe he thinks I deliberately want people dead #strawman argument #those are SO different

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trans4trans · 2 months

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all this talk from tmes about making it easier for trans women and loving trans women and stuff but the moment a trans woman steps out of line in some way after being harassed for ages everyone drops the act and makes her the villain. idc if she has a kink you don’t like idc if she told people to kill themselves idc what the fuck she did. you cannot post about making it easier for trans women and the next day make it harder for them by engaging in a harassment campaign against one. the amount of trans women that have been harassed off this site is sickening and its heartbreaking to think about the toll its taken on these women to be facing constant harassment in both real life and online spaces. we should all be seriously ashamed of ourselves for not sticking up for them more

#transmisogyny #idk. i am fucking tired i am sick and sad and angry thinking about how my wife got death threats from you people #horrified hearing about the harassment that continues to follow predstrogen on cohost #and still pissed about those strawman arguments from tmes a few weeks ago in response to a trans woman being pedojacketed #sui #rbs turned off because a transmisogynist tme freak whos been stalking a transfem for 5+ years and deadnaming her and harassing her rbed #and its been stalking me recently as well

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explodingsilver · 2 years

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Also when I see people say shit like “you use the Gregorian calendar meaning that you’re culturally Christian and therefore can’t criticize religion in general” I’m like

#original content do not steal #euphoric on main #that example sounds like a stupid strawman but I swear that's always their first argument

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gnomewithalaptop · 1 month

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"Everyone is expected to be in a relationship that's amawhatever" newsflash but when society expects people to fall in love, get married, have kids they are not lumping gay and trans people in there lol, cishetero society doesn't want LGBTQ people to get married much less have sex and have kids, cishetero society doesn't even want LGBTQ people alive AT ALL lol, you think gay and trans people that experience romantic and sexual attraction have some sort of privilege over people who don't because of "amatonormativity"? Lmao gay and trans people get killed for having sex still and in some places in the world people get killed for it LEGALLY

Normal people: hey man how's it going

#anyway. uh. strawman argument.#ace discourse #asks #lmao also why send this on anon man we both know who you are

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lareinadelplata · 10 months

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i love when yanquis say they use "american" to refer to themselves cause "that's how english works, mexico is technically united mexican states but we don't call them unitedians" Buddy. Friend. that's how spanish works as well, do you think "estadounidense" makes sense linguistically to us? we're Forced to call you by that dumb ass name because when you created your country you chose to name it after the entire continent and now if we use the linguistically "correct" demonym then we don't get to use it for ourselves even though we're just as american as you are. come on now. like i feel like if one of your states decided to name itself ''State of America" you'd end up calling the people from there "statians" even though that doesnt make a lot of sense because it would lead itself to confusion otherwise, dont you agree? anyways.

#''just call yourself south/central/latin american'' i do! cause i am! and im also american!#btw i swear im not strawmanning ive seen this argument so many times are you Daft #Latinoamérica y el español

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astrabear · 9 months

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A writer friend of mine posted this on Facebook:

A FB friend made a post asking if writers have any sort of ethical or moral responsibility regarding our writing. Most of the answers were about our only responsibility being to the "truth" of the story and characters, or the like. The following was my response. ---------- I guess I'll be the voice of dissent. As writers, we *absolutely* have a responsibility to the culture and times we live in--or rather, to the people who share them with us. Any piece of fiction longer than a short story (and many short stories as well) has a socio-political message. It may be minor, and it may well be unintentional, but it's there. It's there in the decisions we make about what characters to spotlight, and how we portray them. It's there in the attitudes we don't even mean to express. It's there in our choice of what struggles to showcase, and why characters on different sides of the issue make the choices they do. You can choose to craft your message deliberately, or not. But it will be there. It is our responsibility to be aware of what we're saying, and if what we're saying is harmful to people, to choose to say something else. If (to choose some random examples) your survivalist ammosexual turns out to be right, and his way of self-centered violence is the correct way forward? You're saying something that speaks to issues our society is facing right now. If your villain is Black or trans, and your heroes are all white or cis? That's a message. In a world of true equality, it might not be, but in this world? In a world of persecution and hate crimes and laws of deliberate oppression across multiple states? It's absolutely saying something. And what it's saying is harmful. It literally contributes, however small your audience may be, to a greater harmful attitude and world view. As a writer, you own that. And as writers, I believe we have an ethical and moral responsibility not to make things worse, if we can't make them better. And if doing harm is the only way you can be "true to the story"? Then you damn well tell a different story. As humans, our obligation is to our fellow humans, the marginalized most of all. Being a writer or an artist doesn't change that; it only changes how we go about it.

Me again. Now, this author writes novels and screenplays (Ari Marmell, he writes mostly fantasy with some sci-fi/horror, many of them have audiobook versions, some have been translated into other languages, see if your library carries anything but don't pirate minor authors who barely make enough to get by please) but this is the crux of the conflict I see in fanfic discourse.

And I don't know if it's possible to have constructive discussion between people who agree with these underlying principles (that everything communicates a political viewpoint, that what you put out into the world becomes part of a larger system of beliefs and values, that you are responsible for the effects of your work) and people who disagree with them.

#fanfic #fanfic discourse #i know this is a futile request #but please no strawman arguments #no one is saying that you're not allowed to write certain things #or that certain characters and topics are off-limits #or that people who disagree are bad and evil #ari marmell

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timegears-moved · 11 months

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not rbing the post that prompted this but holy shit the proud self-identified fags and dykes and queers on this site who are like "respect people's trauma anything can be a trigger uwu" but throw the biggest hissy fit when someone has slur-related trauma is insane. i can't believe i have to see people who just want to existed without being sent into a panic attack be compared to cishets that wanna sanitize our culture or worse: t*rfs (i've seen trans women get compared to t*rfs just for having a shred of human decency regarding slur usage and it just goes to show none of you actually care about trans women and just see t*rfs as the lgbt boogeyman). it's genuinely so immature and it's just another thing to add to the list of "tumblr users want to be high school bullies so bad" but framing it in a faux progressive way this time. grow the fuck up and learn to be nice to one another.

#bwark #coming from a self-identified dyke this shit is honest to god embarrassing #also literally nobody is saying you can't identify with those words. you're making up a fake strawman argument #it's possible to have both!!!! i'm literally doing it!!!!! it's not hard #f slur #d slur #q slur

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