Episode 72 Transcript: Old Man Yaoi
[intro guitar music]
G: Hello, my name is Grey.
C: And my name is Crystal.
G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show several times–
C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.
G: Both Asian. For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 4, Episode 12: “Criss Angel is a Douchebag,” written by Julie Siege, directed by Robert Singer.
C: Oh, I love women! I know I hated women in 4.07, but thanks, Julie Siege.
G: I love this episode.
C: Yeah.
G: I mean [C laughs], okay, I like it the same way I liked last episode, but like, a little bit better.
C: Yeah. Okay, question. Am I the only one who thought for a second there gonna be old man yaoi in Supernatural? [both laughing]
G: No. These three are literally in a polyamorous, gay relationship. They are.
C: Yeah. There's something fruity going on there. Especially between Jay and Charlie. Like, what is going on?
G: [laughing] It literally is so Hannibal-core. Like, he stabs himself so that the other person will die. And then he says, "He gave me a gift, and I just threw it to his face," which is something Hannibal literally tells Will. [both laughing]
C: Oh my god.
G: That was the whole point-
C: When did Hannibal come out?
G: When did Hannibal come out?
C: 2013 to 2015. They fucking stole this. They stole "Criss Angel is a Douchebag." Brian Fuller, answer to Julie Siege.
G: Yeah. [dramatically] "I gave you a gift, and you didn't want it." That was a direct reference to "Criss Angel is a Douchebag." [C laughs] It's- this episode is good. It's funny. I mean, and also like, Ruby is in it for very little, but I actually have some insights into her character that I want to talk about later, when we start talking about the episode. Like, what she does here is super interesting, and- Oh, let's talk about it later. I don't wanna- you know, we should should give the audience what they want all throughout the episode so they keep on listening. Is that how it works? I don't know. I'm a bad podcaster.
C: Sure, probably.
G: Okay, so before we begin, Crystal, what did you know about “CrissAngel is a Douchebag” before you watched it?
C: Literally nothing except that Ruby would be in it at some point.
G: Really? You didn't know about the Chief.
C: Oh! You told me about the Chief. Sorry. Yes, I knew about the Chief because you told me. I didn't know what episode the Chief was gonna be in.
G: I don't remember anything about this episode. Like, absolutely nothing. I knew that Ruby was gonna come because of the "Then" sequence, but prior to that, I just didn't know. I thought it was just gonna be a case episode with nothing happening. But I remember so vividly the title of this episode, and I remember also so vividly that this is where the Chief comes up, which is like the only two things you need from this episode, I guess.
C: It's true.
G: The "Then" sequence is mostly Ruby and Sam, and like, all those stuff. Like, Sam being like, “Oh, she saved me," but also Sam not like being able to kill demons, and Ruby being like, “You need to tone up” and Sam being like, “I'm not going to do that.” And that's where we end at "Then" sequence. We start with a rather lengthy pre-splash screen thing, where basically, there's a guy in a bar. They are at Sioux City. I looked up. Whether this city in Iowa was like, Magic Central. I don't think it is.
C: I don't know anything about Sioux City.
G: I don't really know how to look it up. Because if I look up "Sioux City, Iowa," like, it doesn't say like, "Oh, it's Magician Central." But if I look up "Sioux City, Iowa, magic," it just shows me all the magicians there, and it's like, "No, no, no, that's not what I'm looking for." Do you know anything about Iowa?
C: I think they're just having a conference. I don't know anything about Iowa.
G: Sad.
C: Besides that it is the title of a song by Dar Williams that everyone should listen to.
-
G: We start in Iowa, and you know, we see outside, and there's like a bunch of people doing magic tricks on the street. Whoo! And then we go inside the bar, and there is a guy also doing a magic trick in front of the bartender. And he is old. He is doing card tricks, specifically. And there's a guy just off the side who is in your typical magician garb.
C: Yeah. Party City levels.
G: Yeah. Party City magician garb. And he is heckling this guy, basically. Like, the bartender is not even putting on a- I mean Jay. This guy's name is Jay. - He's not even putting on a show. He's just literally showing tricks to the bartender. And this guy, this asshole is like, “Yeah, why don't you show us another one?” And like, at some point, he fumbles the trick, and Vance, the heckler, is like, “Yeah, you loser." You know. He's so fucking annoying. And then at some point, the bartender goes, "Can you just stop doing that? Leave the old man alone."
C: Which definitely helps him feel better.
G: And then Jay, the old man, was like, "Oh, okay. Guess I'm an old man." He even does this thing where, like, he reveals the trick. Like, the card is in the pocket, and he just keeps going, "Check his pocket! Check his pocket!" He's so unbearable.
We go to a theater, and there is also another young magician. His name is Jeb Dexter. And he is practicing some tricks where - I think it's his grand entrance, and there's just a couple of people in the audience, because this is a practice. And also, heavy metal is playing. I don't think this is heavy metal. I think it's just metal music.
C: I don't know genres very well.
G: I also don't. I don't know why I made that call. [both laugh] But it is metal music, so, you know, and the guy Jeb looks... scene?
C: [laughs] Looks what?
G: He looks like a scene kid. He looks like a scene kid, right?
C: Mm. Well, it's shirtless, leather vest... sort of spiky hair, and [both] eyeliner.
G: Yeah. They're making him out to be a bit of an asshole. Because at some point, he's like, "Cut all this! You're supposed to do this, and you're supposed to do this! Why isn't this happening?" And there are three magicians watching him, and these are the old men yaoi of this episode. [C laughs] So to introduce you to them, it's Vernon, it's Jay, and it's Charlie. And I don't really know how to differentiate them. Basically-
C: Jay's like our main guy. Charlie is his bestie who has definitely explored his body. And Vernon's sorta like, not very nice?
G: He's okay. I feel like he entered the throuple. Like, Charlie and Jay were together first, and then they were like, "Yeah, Vernon."
C: Right. And then they saw Vernon across the bar and liked his vibe.
G: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They're just I'm talking about how this Jeb Dexter guy is kind of an asshole and they're being mean to him because of his like, flashiness. Like, his outfit and his eyeliner. And Charlie is like, [old man voice] “Oh, it used to be about skill-" [both laughing] That's not his voice! [both laughing] Why did I put on that voice?
C: [laughing] Yeah, sure, that's your old man voice. Go for it.
G: He's going, "It used to be about skill." And Jay, who is quite defeated about his career and his life, is like, "God, you guys are pathetic. You're like, bitter and old. We are all bitter and old. We are jokes in this industry. That used to be us, but now it's like, whatever. We're just old. We're dying." And then he just goes, “I'm gonna do the table of death tonight.” And Vernon and Charlie is like, “You almost died when you last did that, don't be crazy.” And Jay is like, “Yeah, who give a shit? I just want to just- If I die, at least I go out with a headline.”
C: Don't do that to your audience, man.
G: Yeah! Like, don't traumatize your audience.
C: Yeah, you're gonna traumatize a good- [laughing] probably five people given that no one goes to your shows. But still!
-
G: We go to a now smaller theater than what Jay - what's his name? Jeb Dexter - was at earlier. This one is just in a restaurant. And Jay is in a tuxedo. He is all dressed up for the show.
C: With a pink satin shirt under it. Fun look.
G: Yeah, magician wear. And he's saying like, "Oh, ladies and gentlemen-" you know, like your typical magician stuff. He lies down on the table of death, and Charlie starts to lock the cuffs. At some point. Charlie goes, "These are tight. Are you sure you can slip out of them?" They start the scene, and they close the curtains in front of the table. So it's all shadow. You're just seeing all shadow.
C: Yeah, which, I mean, I, personally, just would not believe any of it was real if that was the case.
G: Yeah.
C: Like, they could be playing a projection.
G: That's true.
They start burning the thing that will make the blades fall.
C: Yeah, there's like, ten bloody swords hanging from the ceiling or whatever.
G: Why are the swords already bloody? Or are they just red?
C: I don't know. Yeah, they probably just tinted them with red to make them look more menacing.
G: Yeah. Jay is trying to get out, but I don't think it's happening. This scene is so long. But okay, meanwhile, Vance and this girl he was with earlier who’s his assistant are leaving the bar that they were at. We go back to Jay. He's struggling. It's not happening. And then the swords fall, and Jay, on the table - and the silhouette looks like he has been stabbed to death. Everyone in the room is gasping. After a moment of silence, the curtains open. Jay is there, and people are like, “Oh my god! That's so amazing!” Then we go back to Vance, the heckler from earlier. And now he is dead.
C: Yup. With ten stab wounds.
G: There are ten stab wounds on his torso, but like, no anything on his shirt. Like, no tears or anything. Which is fun!
C: It is fun.
G: And that's when we get our splash screen.
-
C: We cut to a bit later, and Jeb from earlier is doing card tricks on the street, and he’s saying that he's channeling demon and angel powers or whatever. Meanwhile, Sam and Dean are passing by, and Dean's like, “What a douchebag!” But Sam says, “Hey, that's Jeb Dexter.” And Dean goes, “I don't even want to know how you know that,” and Sam’s like, “He's famous.” Okay. So I mean, okay, we're agreed that Sam has a bit of a celebrity crush on this guy, right? [G laughs] But is it like a “he's an asshole but I sort of find his charm affecting” sort of crush, or is it like a “I want to make him take my cock so bad so that he could shut the fuck up” kind of crush?
G: I don't think he has a crush on this guy.
C: Ow! Okay, fine.
G: Yeah.
C: He just knows about him. Doesn't give a shit?
G: Yeah.
C: Alright. That's okay.
G: Also, do you think it's mean if I say that this guy kind of reminds me of Pete Wentz? [laughs]
C: No, I don't think it's mean.
G: He has that vibe.
C: I don’t know what Pete Wentz looks like.
G: He has a little bit of that vibe. Also, this is a spoiler, but later, Charlie reminds me-
C: Okay, I can see it.
G: - of Brian Jordan Alvarez. [laughs]
C: Huh!
G: Like, when he showed up, I was like, “This is Brian Jordan Alvarez.” And I just thought the entire time-
C: Wait, the young one?
G: Yeah, the young one. And the entire time he was young, I was like-
C: Wait, but you would have a different association with young Charlie.
G: Who?
C: He's the actor that plays Lucas in House M.D.!
G: Who the hell is Lucas? The ex-wife's husband?
C: The private investigator-
G: Ohh!
C: The private investigator that House hires to spy on Wilson, and then he and Cuddy end up having a baby together.
G: That's crazy. Does that really happen in the show? [laughing]
C: Yes! Aren’t you the House M.D. fan?
G: Nope. [C laughs] I plead the fifth. I think that's a law in the United States. [laughs]
C: Yeah, I don't think it applies to overseas, but- [laughs] Anyway.
So basically, the rest of Jeb's act is like, he pretends that he gets possessed by a demon, and that helps him figure out what someone's card is. And Dean's like, “Man, this sucks. I can't believe people actually believe this, and, moreover, it's also literally offensive to the demon hunting community [both laughing] to pretend to be possessed by a demon.” Like, bro. Hunter is not an axis of oppression as much as The Winchesters want you to think that.
G: It's so funny to me that he also thinks that "People believe in magic tricks." Like, no!
C: [laughing] No, they don’t!
G: People are impressed by the skill that you exhibit when you do a quote "magic" trick. That's what people are impressed by.
C: Exactly.
G: They don't think it's literally magic. [C laughs] So annoying.
C: God. So, so annoying. Wait, I mentioned that The Winchesters finale, the main villain is someone who wants to kill all humans because she's mad that hunters wasted all their time protecting humans, right?
G: [laughs] Yeah.
C: Yeah. Okay. Dean would be on this woman's side, like, given a few more bad days watching magic tricks.
So the thing that you said about skill is what Sam says. He's like, "Okay, I mean, that was like- that was crap. But like, not all magic is crap. [fake-teary] Like, it takes a lot of skill, Dean." [both laugh] But this when we get the reveal that Sam, when he was 13, used to be into doing magic, which I already knew, because all the Sam bloggers had like, a week where they kept like calling him Sammy Kablammy or Sammy Shazammy or something like that. Were you privy to this?
G: It's an adorable fact.
C: Yes. It's very, very cute. And I know that sometimes, people can just have interests that are unrelated to their various traumas. But [laughing] how do we think this interest is related to Sam's various traumas? [G laughs]
G: I don't know. I mean, he was 13. So it was definitely after he learned that- about like, monsters. You think it's like, a way to rationalize the supernatural? That could be an interpretation, right?
C: Like, it's just like another really skilled trick and there's like a way of learning your way around it, you mean?
G: No more of like, "Yeah, like all- like, those things are like actual magic or so, and we can't control them. But this is like, magic that I can control. And I can learn," you know? Blah blah blah.
C: Aw. Yeah. Yeah, I agree that that is definitely part of it. I also wonder if, like, at this point he was like, "Oh, there's like something wrong with me in terms of like, I can do things or like, I can feel the demon blood doing something. So I want to focus my energy on magic that is good so I don't have to think about the fact that I might be magic in an evil way according to my dad, or whatever." [G laughs]
G: That is so funny. Like, now, I'm thinking about Sam moving that cabinet one time in Season 2 or whatever, and being like, "Oh my god. It's magic!" [both laughing] Which is definitely not what happened. But god, it's funny.
C: I mean, 13-year-olds are stupid.
G: Yeah.
C: I mean, they're not. But some are.
Anyway, so cute. He had a deck of cards and a wand! That's soo cute.
But then Sam brings their focus back to the case at hand. So they go to interview Vance's assistant. She's like, pulling like a really long like silk scarf out of a bag, and then like, a rabbit and shit while they're talking. But basically, they ask if Vance had any enemies, and apparently, yes, basically all the magicians hated him because he would steal their intellectual property.
G: Also, to mention the stuff that she's pulling out, right? Like, the silk scarf, it's kind of funny, because Dean's looking at it the whole time like "When's this gonna end?" and just, it never does. But also, why is there just a rabbit there? And why did she put the rabbit in the bag?
C: Yeah, I'm worried about that rabbit's wellbeing.
G: I'm worried about that rabbit. And it's a very pretty rabbit, too.
C: Yeah, it has like long fur.
G: Long hair, yeah.
C: And then she says that something that she found on Vance's body is the tarot card for the Ten of Swords! And it definitely did not belong to Vance because he hated card tricks. Interesting. Interesting how he had that and then he was stabbed with 10 swords from the ceiling.
So now we're in Jay's hotel room, and we get a scene that is so old man yaoi.
G: [laughing] Yeah.
C: It's- like, I knew that I would have heard about it already if Supernatural canonicized this. But like still, the whole time I was like, "Are they-? Like- Is this-? Am I supposed to be getting hints here? Because I'm definitely getting hints here." [laughing] You now how later, when Jay was like, "He wasn't just my friend." And I was like, "Wait! Are they doing it?" [both laugh] And then he goes, "He was my brother." [both laughing]
G: That is such a Dean Winchester thing to say.
C: That is the Supernatural experience.
G: God, do you remember like, in like- before- I mean, you don't remember, but I watched 15.20 live, and before 15.20 aired, there was like a little like, "Look back on Supernatural" thing. You know how like, in House, they do that, too, right? But like, yeah, they do it for Supernatural. And like, it's so funny being like- when they were talking about Cas, Jensen goes, “Cas is really the third brother of the show.” [both laughing] And, like, first of all, there's a literal third brother-
C: [laughing] - in the show already.
G: [laughing] Second of all, he confessed his love to your character two episodes ago!
C: Yeah. He said that he wanted to fuck you raw.
G: It's so funny!
C: What is the- I'm searching for the specific wording. You know that post from like, October of 2020 that's like, "Misha Collins said that Cas's last words will be really important in this political climate, [G laughs] but the only thing that would be important is if he says, 'Dean Winchester, I want to fuck you so bad and so raw,'" but like, that's not exactly what the post is phrased as. I don't know the specifics. One day I'll find out and I'll reference it more often.
G: [laughing] I love that Misha Collins actually said that. [both laugh] "What Cas will say is so important our political climate."
C: It's the same fucking energy as his like, Instagram post of him being like, "Currently the Supreme Court is taking away all right for all Americans. But you know what? Cas is gay." [both laughing]
G: I mean, he literally is.
C: Like, gay is like, vague enough that I can continue bi Cas truthing without being homophobic, right? Like, I don't- Is there a point where, like- I mean, Misha Collins isn't a writer, also. I think if there was a point where the writers were like, "He is exclusively attracted to men," I'd be like, "Okay, fine." But currently, he's still bi to me.
G: Yeah. I don't think that's like- I don't think when he was like, "I've loved you since I pulled you out of Hell," I don't think he was like, "And only men," [both laugh] you know? [both laughing] He was never like- he never said those words, so. "I love you, and only you, specifically, like, because you're a guy."
C: "You're a man."
G: "And if you were a girl, it's not gonna happen." [C laughs] Like, he never was like that.
C: Yeah, okay, cool. Anyway, we're so off topic.
G: We are.
C: Old man yaoi.
G: Old man yaoi.
C: So Jay is in his hotel room. He's like doing card tricks. He's doing really good. And then someone knocks on the door, and it is Charlie. And Charlie comes in, and he's like, "Are you gonna tell me how you did it?" You know, all this is so funny now that I know the ending. [both laugh] But whatever.
G: Yeah.
C: Jay clearly - he has a pep in his step. He's confident. He's calling himself "one of the great ones," magician-wise And, you know, Charlie is like, "I mean, yesterday, you were sad, old and dying, and now, like, everything's changed. Come on, talk to me." And he says, like- Charlie also says, "I didn't think that you could do it." And then he goes, "You're my friend. My best friend. I just didn't wanna see you get hurt." What is- okay, I, like, friendship is a real thing, but also, they- anyway. [both laugh]
Yeah, so Jay shows him another trick where he's able to pull the ace of spades, clubs, and diamonds out of the middle of the deck flawlessly.
G: Yeah, I actually really like this. Like, the little magic tricks that they do.
C: Yeah.
G: I feel like Julie Siege actually likes magic and was like, "Let me incorporate it into this episode." And I feel like throughout the episode, like, first of all, that little detail that, like, he was practicing pulling out the ace all his life, and now he can do it three easy. It's like, little details like that, I feel- I mean, I don't know anything about magic. So maybe I'm like, terribly off-base. But to me, as someone who doesn't know anything about this, it betrays a little bit of a- like, this is something that the writer actually liked and maybe knew a little bit about, and like, now, it's like-
C: Yeah.
G: So, I don't know. Because you can easily make an episode about magicians and about magic that feels like, they don't feel like people, you know, like, they are defined by their, I don't know, their occupations or whatever. But, like, these characters, they are magicians, but they also do genuinely feel like people with like, actual motivations and stuff. Which I really like.
C: Yeah. Yeah. And when they're talking about the industry, I'm like, "OMG, so true! The industry."
G: Yeah, like, that's what I'm talking about. Like it feels like, real in a way, which is, I think, a big part of why I really enjoyed watching this episode. Because the people felt real. You know how like, Sarah from "Providence" was an art curator, but like, it was like, nothing?
C: Yeah.
G: Like, it was nothing. Like, seeing- They could have easily done something like that with these magicians, right? Like, "Yeah, they're magicians, but it's whatever." But like, having them be so embedded in the industry, and their motivations are run around this theme, it's like, it's nice. It's well-written. It's a well-written episode.
C: Yeah, yeah. These are like some of the like, probably best characters who the case happens to that we've seen on Supernatural.
G: Yeah. They're fleshed out as much as they can with one-off characters.
C: Like, "Family Remains," that family was so annoying. Like, they tried to give them a backstory, and it like, just didn't really work. But this works.
G: Yeah, this works. All they needed was old man yaoi, yeah. [C laughs]
C: Right. Because last episode, you said the thing that bothered you about "Family Remains" is that it started as like, there was an uncle in the family, so it was sort of different -
G: Yeah, and then nobody gave a shit about it, yeah.
C: - from the usual nuclear family dynamic, and then, like they killed him and the dog, and then, like no one cared. And this- the relationship structure of this episode is so interesting-
G: Yeah! It's unconventional. Yeah.
C: Yeah. Even if they aren't fucking each other raw, which I think they are, like, it's nice that-
G: There's this family, yeah.
C: - I'm skipping ahead so much. But at the at the end, when Jay's like, “I'm gonna die alone.”
G: You actually feel it!
C: I just bought into the idea that like, yeah, this is his found family structure. He isn't gonna date or like, adopt or do anything. This was like, it for him.
G: They are like, actual people! And they feel like actual people! It's nice.
C: Right. It's nice.
So Jay says that he's gonna do The Executioner tonight. And then Charlie's like, “No, please don't.You're gonna die. Not even Houdini would do The Executioner.” And then, you know, Charlie keeps begging him not to. And then Jay positions Charlie a bit farther away from him and says something about how, “We can't end up like a bunch of old people doing birthdays and bar mitzvahs." Charlie says, “Beats dying!” [both laugh] Which, I guess, is funny now.
G: I mean, okay, I'm gonna bring this up now. I was gonna bring it up towards the end. But I can't stop myself. He was ready to grow old with these two. Which is like- Oh my god! He knew how to be immortal. He knew how to stay young forever. And like, we are to assume- like, didn't like Jay say that that they met when he was like in his 20s? When he was 20?
C: Yeah.
G: So like, at that point, I think Charlie already was immortal in some way.
C: Yeah, yeah, because he worked with PT Barnum, who was active in [both] the 1800s.
G: Yeah, so like, he already- This is literally Destiel. [both laughing] No, it's not. But this is a better love story than Destiel. [C laughs]
But he met this guy. He already was like, “Yeah, like, I could stay this young forever.” And then, like, he just decided like, “No, I'm going to grow old with them.” Which is-
C: Yeah, like, “I'm gonna wait until I'm in my sixties before I do anything about it. And I want to bring them with me.”
G: Yeah. I think actually- I feel a little bit like he only did this to make sure that Jay stays alive. Because he could have made them successful way earlier. But he only really did it because Jay was very obviously suicidal, right?
C: Yeah. Yeah.
G: And like, did he want to grow old and die with these two? Man!
C: I feel like he wanted them to be immortal together forever. But I feel like that is the same amount of like, [both] commitment.
G: Yeah. Damn. I think this guy’s gay or something. [C laughs]
C: Yeah.
So at “beats dying,” Jay says, “Does it?” And then Charlie says, “I would do anything for you. You know that.” [both laugh] [shouted:] What is happening?!
G: I love it.
C: “But I will not watch you die.” Is this not- has Destiel not said something like that, or am I just making it up?
G: No, Cas- I think Cas said that in Season 14 when Dean was gonna toss himself in the ocean.
C: Okay. Well.
G: I don’t know. I'm not sure.
C: Like, my face is red. Like, I’m sweating. Like- [both laughing] I'm going insane!
G: [laughing] What is happening?
C: I just- I don’t know. Love story of all time, perhaps?
G: Perhaps, yeah.
C: Anyway, so. [laughs] Anyway. Charlie makes light of it by saying, “I'll miss that show if you die.” And Jay says, “No, you'll be there. You're always there for me.” [laughing] Normal things to say. And then he says-
G: On one hand, when this was happening, I was like, “Yeah, they're friends.” [both laugh]
C: Which like, yeah.
G: And they are. But they're also lovers. So, good for them.
C: Right. I mean, there are friends that you would think this about and say this to. But like, it’s just a lot of one-after-the-others, and it's not even past midnight, and you aren't even crying or drunk, you know? [laughs]
G: Yeah.
C: So Charlie is told to check his pocket, and he does, and it's the ace of hearts! [G laughs]
G: That guy's gay or something! I've been saying.
C: What?
G: He literally gave him the ace of hearts.
C: No, exactly, exactly, exactly! [G laughs] Like, the spades is the cool one, you know? If you want to just be like, “Oh, here's a cool thing that happened,” you do the spades. The ace of hearts is like, hello?
G: And in his breast pocket! Like, by his heart. [C laughs] It's crazy.
C: No, sorry, we can't- I don't want to start sounding like a fucking TJLCer. [G laughs] I fear that if I go further down this path I'm just gonna sound like a TJLCer. You were not present during the TJLC days -
G: No, I was not. I did not give a shit about Sherlock, yeah.
C: People were making graphics where they were doing meta, and they were like, “phone = heart,” like, breast pocket, because in the first episode Sherlock asks John to get the heart- sorry, to get his phone for him out of his pocket. But yeah. This one, it’s literally the ace of hearts. So we are not insane people. [G laughs]
Anyway, Charlie is like, “Hey, that's pretty good.” And Jay goes. “I can do it, Charlie. I want to do it.” And you know, there's shots of them laughing and smiling together. And something about the camera angles, it's very romantic. It's very romantic.
-
G: Well, now, we enter a theater where Jeb Dexter is going to do an interview. And he's going to be interviewing Jay as kind of a “honoring my elders” kind of way. [both laugh] And Charlie and Vernon are just watching this, which is so funny to me. These three are inseparable.
C: Well, they're part of the same act though, right?
G: Are they?
C: They're his assistants or something. Because Charlie does the rope burning, at least?
G: Well, I think that was like- Jay says earlier, “We can't even afford assistants anymore,” so I think the implication was they're assisting each other in each other’s act.
C: Okay, yeah. They're giving each other a hand, winky face. Got it.
G: Yeah. Dean comes in. Sam and Dean are in fact in this episode. [C laughs] Dean asks Vernon, “Hey are you Vernon Haskell? I'm here to investigate the death of Patrick Vance,” and then he holds up an FBI ID. And as this is happening, Jeb and Jay are starting the interview, and it's Jeb being like, “Yeah, I'm Jeb Dexter. And we're at the International Magicians Convention, where I am going to tip my hat to the people who came before me.” And then he says, “Smoking hot effect last night, Jim,” and Jay goes, “It's Jay. My name is Jay.” And it starts this background noise of Jeb Dexter being like, “We'll just cut it in post. We'll loop it later. I don't know why you're being an asshole,” you know. That's the background. Meanwhile, Dean is talking to Vernon still. Deans asking about the tarot card that they pulled off the Vance body, and he's asking if Vernon is familiar with it because he used to use tarot cards in his act. But Vernon says, “That was a long time ago, it's not happening anymore. But there is someone that sells these kind of stuff over on Bleeker Street.” And Charlie immediately catches on, like, “Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He sells specialty stuff.” And they say, “Oh, Vance pissed him off a year ago, cost him so much money in royalties and stuff.” And they go like, “Yeah, the address is 26 Bleeker,” and then Vernon is doing the talking, and Charlie just goes like, “Yeah, ask for Chief.” [C laughs] And Dean’s like, “Okay,” and then leaves, and Charlie and Vernon just look at each other.
So we go to Bleeker Street, where we see that Dean is knocking at the door. So like somebody greets Dean, and he's like, “Oh, I'm looking for the Chief,” and the guy’s like, “Okay, come in.” And they come in and they enter this basement-looking place, where there's a loud, thumping music that you can hear from the distance. And you look around the place, and it's kind of dark, but there's graffiti everywhere. Dean is left alone there, and the guy’s like, “Yeah, don't touch anything, stay there.” And Dean is just waiting, waiting, waiting when a door opens from the other side of the room.
C: The floor?
G: Is it on the floor?
C: It sorta looked like it was on the floor.
G: It's sorta surface level, and then, like it goes down, so it looks like it's coming up. The light looks like it's coming up.
C: Got it.
G: So a guy comes in, and it's a bulky guy, and he is wearing leather. He's carrying a flogger. And he is like, you know, flogging. Like, he's like playing with the flogger with his hands. And then he- [C laughs]
C: He's slapping it against his hand a few times, yeah.
G: Yeah, yeah. What did I say?
C: [laughing] You said he's playing with the flogger with his hands, which is not incorrect, but sounds sort of like he's jerking the flogger off. [G laughs]
G: Anyway, when he finally stands still and we get a good look at him, he goes, "Ah. You're really gonna get it tonight, big boy." [C laughs] And Dea is like, "There's been a misunderstanding. I think I've been had."
C: "I've been had."
G: And the Chief goes, [overlapping] “Oh, you haven't been had until you've been had by the Chief.” Chief goes, "Oh! Before we get started, what's your safeword?" And Dean does a little face where he looks like he's like, holding back a vomit, which I think is rude. But you know. I mean, I get it. He's in a situation he doesn't want to be in.
C: Yeah. Yeah. So how did Vernon and Charlie know about this?
G: They must go to this place, I guess.
C: Yeah. That is also a conclusion.
G: Which, you know. Like- [laughs] I mean, it's just, I don't know, like, I do genuinely think they were trying to make like these three like, gay.
C: Okay.
G: And this scene is like, my evidence.
C: Huh. Yeah, okay.
G: Because it's like, they know about the, I would assume, underground gay subculture in this area.
C: Yeah. I mean, it literally is underground. It's a basement. And then a basement of a basement.
G: It's literally underground. And also, they don't frequent- they don't live here. You know what I mean?
C: True.
G: They make a point of say, like, these guys are on the road all the time. So I just don't buy the idea that like, "Oh, they know their way around the place." Like, I think this is just- I think they know already their way around this place because it's gay. By virtue of being gay.
C: Yeah, I do think the reasons I'm reluctant to say that it is on purpose is because in the opening scene with Jeb, they keep making fun of him for wearing eyeliner and shaking his ass.
G: Being kind of homophobic, yeah.
C: Yeah. And it just does feel vaguely homophobic. So-
G: But I think, personally, I think that's more of an intergenerational thing than a homophobia thing. You know what I mean?
C: Right, yeah. I get what you mean.
G: Yeah. 'Cause the vibe was more like-
C: I just think if they wanted to make it canon, they would have. Actually, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
G: This was, in fact, in 2009.
C: Yeah, I mean, I guess- Yeah, okay. I guess I just assume that all Supernatural writers are homophobic, so if they meant to do it on purpose, they would have been meaner about it. You know what I mean?
G: I don't know. But yeah.
C: But also, I don't know Julie Siege. Okay, but we're talking about the people who did Destiel not on purpose, you know?
G: Yeah.
C: Like, they didn't mean to do any of that until people started yelling at them so so much.
G: Do you think they- do you think Julie Siege was like, "Yeah, no, nothing's happening here at all."
C: Maybe. Yeah.
G: But you know what? There was something happening here at all, to me. And that's what's important. [C laughs]
C: Yeah. That is what's important.
I mean, with the later reveal that, like Charlie is evil, and trying to tempt them into immortality, maybe something is supposed to be happening here, but it's in the same way that villains are queercoded to like, add a new dimension to their evilness, or whatever. I don't know. I think she intended them to be besties that were not romantic. But something sure is happening.
-
C: We are at the motel room where Sam is staying alone. He's doing some research. Someone knocks at the door. He looks through the little peephole, and then sighs and opens the door all annoyed. And Ruby's here. She looks fantastic as usual. And Ruby is like, “Hey, the entire world is about to end, and you're just here at this magic convention like an idiot.” And she also says, “34 seals have been broken. Like, 34. Over half. And every day, we get closer to the Apocalypse, and someone has to do something. And you are that person. It has to be you.” Sam does not enjoy this situation. He's like, “What do you want me to do? Why are you pressuring me?” all that. And Ruby is like, “Hey. Like, if the seals are being broken, you should go after the one doing the breaking and cut the head off the snake." She says like, "You're the only one who can stop her, Sam, so step up and kill the little bitch." And Sam says something quite interesting. He says, “I'm game. Believe me. It's not the psychic thing I have a problem with.” Which- so like, at this point, he's accepted the Azazel giving him demon blood and psychic powers thing? He's okay with that now?
G: Yeah. And he's just upset about the demon blood.
C: Drinking, right. Because isn't this sort of different from what he told Dean in “Metamorphosis” where he’s like, “There's like this evil inside of me, and like, this is the only way I can make something good out of it.” He doesn't think that there's this evil inside of him anymore. He's okay with the psychic powers.
G: I don't think he thinks there's no evil inside of him anymore. I think that it's not the psychic thing that he has the most problem with, which is a different thing.
C: Alright, yeah, okay. So Ruby is like, "Okay, I know you have a problem with, but it is the only way." Sam refuses again. And then Ruby says, “You know, this would all be so much easier if you just admit to yourself that you like it.”
And I think what this is where like I bring up that in 4.09, we didn't really address the fact that Sam pushed Ruby away after she kissed him, and then she followed him and tried to convince him still, and that's like, not okay. And I feel like this sentence continues to play into the idea of like, this being akin to a sexual assault. Like, do you know what I mean?
G: Yeah.
C: Like the whole like, "You know you like it," is like, a staple sentence of rape culture.
G: Yeah. The whole, like, blurred lines issue from way back centers around this very phrasing.
C: Right. Yeah. And I think that that is deliberate here.
G: What I find most interesting, okay. So after this line, right, Ruby basically realizes that like this specific tactic is not working with Sam right now. So she changes tactic, and she goes, “Sam. Lucifer is gonna rise, and the Apocalypses are gonna start and people are gonna die. So just let me know when you don't want people to die anymore.” And it's so fascinating to me because I think this scene reminds me a lot of what you said that one time where you said that, like, in the past, Ruby was like, "You have to be tougher, Sam. You have to be just like Dean." And then when she realized that that's not working, she was like, “Okay, then I can be the Dean and you can continue being the Sam." Fundamentally, like, Ruby's intentionality of her interactions with Sam is to get him to do her bidding.
C: Yeah.
G: And but this scene fascinates me a lot because it shows you how she really does just throw everything at the wall to see what sticks.
C: No, yeah, exactly.
G: It's like, "Oh, like, I want to get Sam to do this thing, and I'll just do anything to get him to do it, and hope that one of them works." And it's like, in this part, she's like, "Well, I'm gonna pull the whole like, 'Oh, I know you want it, blah blah blah. I know that you actually like it, and you just won't admit it.'" And when it doesn't work she's like, "Well, people are gonna die. [C laughs] Does that work now?" Yeah.
C: Yeah, yeah. It's very interesting. Because, yeah, I feel like we're supposed to consider- I feel like Supernatural considers her like a master of manipulation. But like, I don't think she's actually that good at it. I think that - because, like, she tries for all of Season 3, and it doesn't work.
G: Yeah.
C: And that's probably because, like, she spends too much time in the prologue and doesn't really get to like, "And now you have to use demon powers to do blah blah blah blah blah" part until it's too late. And then, like, this time, she's like, "Okay. Go #2." And I feel like it only works because she found him at his most emotionally vulnerable time in his life.
G: Yeah.
C: Like, I think she heard from the crossroads demon, like, “Sam was just over here, like drunk and suicidal,” and then she was like, “Oh, well, now is my time to shine.”
She uses like his grief about Dean to like, get with him sexually too to be able to manipulate him.
G: When I was editing "Heaven and Hell," and I was listening to myself say that, "Oh, Anna bringing up all of Dean's trauma, and then being like, 'Yeah, let's fuck now.'"
C: Right.
G: Why is it that when Anna did it, I was like, "Oh, yeah, like, this is bad." But like, when Ruby did it, I was like, "Eh, okay." Because, like, the reason why is because when Ruby does it, it's framed as like manipulation, or at least in retrospect, it's framed as manipulation, because we know what she is trying to do. But like, with Anna, it's played incredibly straight-faced. It's like, this is just a normal thing people do.
C: Right.
G: And it's like, I think, that contrast of like framing really does highlight what Ruby is trying to do, which is that this is to take advantage of Sam, and especially that one, it was to take advantage of his grief.
C: Mm-hm. And she expected Dean to never come back right? So like, I feel like it's interesting how she tried to adapt-
G: Is trying to now, yeah.
C:'Cause when he first came back, she was like, “Oh, I can leave for a bit until like things like- because I don't want to drive a rift between the two of you,” and Sam’s like, “No, I'm gonna tell him,” and Ruby's like, “Oh, no, don't do that.” So like, yeah, that's like step number one. But step number two is like, even if Sam tells Dean, that actually works out pretty well for Ruby, because she knows that Dean is going to react negatively, which means that the more Dean knows about Sam and Ruby's relationship, the more that Sam will no longer have Dean in his corner, and only have Ruby. You know what I mean?
G: Yeah.
C: So she's not very good at manipulation, but because Dean is such a fucking asshole, [both laugh] everything she does is gonna work.
G: I was gonna say that when my friends are having difficulty in relationship, I make sure to like, when I'm talking to them about it to not center it around like, "You should be ashamed of yourself!" or whatever.
C: Oh, yeah.
G: Because that will push them further into the bad relationship, because now it's based on shame, you know? Which is like, it is something that is very visible in this in this dynamic, with like Ruby and Sam and Dean.
C: Right.
G: That Dean is pushing the whole like, "Oh, this is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself." And in a way, it is both pushing Sam further into it.
C: Right, yeah. Dean's reaction is never like, "Oh, no, like it seems like she is manipulating her, and I'm like worried about you."
G: "She's manipulating you!"
C: It's just like, "Oh, you fell for it, and now you're besties?"
G: Yeah. "I'm angry at you because you're so stupid and you're so gullible." Yeah.
C: Right and like, he doesn't react in a - I mean, maybe this is what his concern looks like, but like, it's fucked. It's very fucked. And he doesn't offer Sam any compassion about it. It's just like, "Stop being stupid and ruing my life by making me have to see her or whatever the fuck."
G: Yeah
And now they are in an interesting place, because Dean is not as mad at her.
C: That's true. And I don't when he becomes re-mad at her. Probably when he finds out about the blood drinking or something.
I mean, yeah, this also works for Ruby, because Sam's in a spot where he's like, "Oh, like, finally, Dean's like not trying to kill like my girlfriend who's not my girlfriend anymore, so I can't do anything to rock the boat, so I really have to keep the demon blood thing under wraps."
G: Yeah.
C: It always works out really well, despite her not being that good at manipulation. So, wow.
-
C: So as you said, Ruby pulls the, "Okay, you know what? People are gonna die, and it's gonna be your fault. You're gonna cause all them to die. Goodbye." And leaves. And we cut to the theater, where, you know, Sam and Dean meet back up. Neither of them have found anything interesting. Dean does not tell Sam what the situation he encountered was. And, you know, Sam also doesn't tell Dean about the situation he encountered.
Meanwhile, Vernon and Charlie are discussing how Jay is going to do The Executioner. And Vernon's like, "No, you have to stop him. Like, why didn't you try? He's gonna die." And Charlie's like, "No, I tried really hard, but there was something in his eyes." So Sam and Dean show up, talk to them, and Dean’s like, "So. You sent me to The Chief, huh?" And, you know, Charlie and Vernon are both like, "Haha, yeah, we got you." And Dean's like, "I could have you arrested." And they're like, "Oh, no, you can't, because all magicians are grifters and shit. And we could tell that you were not a real FBI agent." [G laughs]
G: You know, instead of being like "hunters are cops," they should have just made hunters like magicians for real. [C laughs]
C: Yeah. Yeah. So Sam and Dean are like, “Ahaha! You've got us! We're actually, um, aspiring magicians?" [G laughs]
G: It was so stupid.
C: "And we came to the convention to learn things" Right. That's so stupid. And that required you to pretend to be FBI agents to ask about a murder? How is that related to being an aspiring magician?
G: I love how they do it pretty much in the same cadence that they talked to the girl who had oh, the big giant teddy bear.
C: Oh, Audrey? Whatever her name was?
G: Yeah. When they were like, “We're teddy bear doctors!” And they were like, "We're aspiring magicians!" [both laugh] It's so stupid.
C: Yeah, yeah. God bless. So they're like, “Oh, we have a new show that we want to do. It's like a brother act with rings and doves and rings.” And you know what? I was waiting for them to make the joke "It's going to be called Supernatural," [G laughs] and they didn't. So good for them.
G: It literally is gonna be called Supernatural.
C: Yeah. So Jay starts doing his act, and it's similar to earlier, where it's cutting between the act and another magician. This time the other magician is Jeb.
G: It's so funny, because, like, with Jay, it's like music, it's like swelling. And like, you know, whatever whatever. Every time it comes to Jeb Dexter, it's just metal music. [laughs]
C: Yeah. The song is called “Douchebag Museum” by Christopher Leonard, so they probably picked it because of the title.
G: Yeah. And it is quite funny because it makes this scene unintentionally funny, I think. And like, every time we cut back to Jeb, he is staring at the mirror doing a mirror face.
C: He's posing.
G: Yeah. You know the face you do in front of a mirror when you're like, "Do I look good?" And you're like, "Oh." That's the face that he's doing the entire time until he is hanged to death.
C: Yeah. Sorry, Jeb.
The trick is that Jay is put in a straitjacket, and then his head is put in a noose, and then in a minute, he has to be able to get out, or he is gonna be hanged to death. And, you know, it's the screen again, so you can only see the silhouettes. While Jeb is posing, there's like a rope that sort of just like, starts forming itself into a noose, and then creeping towards him while he is posing and shit. And then, like, in the last second, Jay hasn't made it out. The noose loops around Jeb's neck and then attaches to the ceiling fan. And then it kills him. And the curtain is pulled aside, and Jay is alive. And Dean's cheering and clapping like, “Oh my god! That was soo cool!” And Sam is just frowning, and he goes, “That was not humanly possible.” Man. Dean's all like, “I can't believe people believe this shit.” And then he's out here believing this shit.
G: He's so real.
C: Yeah. I think it's cute that Sam was the one who figured it out because I think maybe some of his, his 13-year-old magic background helped him know what was possible and what wasn't.
G: Yeah.
-
G: So in a hotel room, Sam and Dean are talking about how Jay was big in the 70s, and he, like, played Radio City Music Hall. And then Dean's like, "What happened to him?" And Sam's like, "Well, what happens to everyone in show biz. He got old."
G: Dean is saying, "Maybe he's using real magic?" They start inferring, maybe the tarot is involved, blah blah blah. And then Dean says, “Man, I hope I die before I get old. Whole thing seems brutal.”
C: Well, good news.
G: Good news, Dean. Sam just asks if he really thinks that, if they really will die before they get old. Dean is like, “Well, we have both done that already.” Sam just pushes through, says “Do you think we're gonna be chasing demons until we're 60?” Dean says, “I think by then, we'll be dead for good. You want to end up like Travis? Or Gordon?” Which is such an odd thing to say, I feel.
C: [laughing] Gordon was not fucking 60! Gordon was like, 30!
G: Yeah, Travis makes sense, because Travis is an old guy.
C: He's probably in his 50s.
G: But like, Gordon was like, their age! Gordon was their age. Sam goes like, “There's Bobby,” and Dean says, “Yeah, Bobby, poster child for growing old gracefully.” And I was like, “Yes!”
C: Don’t be so mean to your elders. What did Bobby do wrong?
G: He literally is. He literally is the poster child for growing old as a hunter gracefully.
C: Like, he’s still doing the work, and he has a nice enough house, and he has friends and a lot of connections, and he helps people out.
G: And also, I understand that they only met Rufus once at this point, it was just Season 2.
C: Right, but I’m surprised that he wasn't mentioned.
G: When we spoke- I love how we're saying “when we spoke to Rufus.” [C laughs] Like, I didn't speak to him. Dean spoke to him.
C: Well, I did.
G: But when Dean spoke to Rufus, that was their conversation, right? About Rufus growing old and retiring, basically, and how Dean is not gonna do that because he's gonna die young or whatever, because his deal is coming up. So you don't have to hunt for the rest of your life. Like Rufus, you literally have a guy who retired. Like, you can actually do that. I don't know. It's just, it's a bit odd
C: It is. It's a bit odd.
G: Anyway, Dean insists that it either ends bloody or sad, and that's just it. Sam goes, “Well, what if we could win? What if we could, you know, just put an end to it all?” And Dean is like, “Uhh, is there something I should know about?” And Dean evades the question, and says that like, “I wish you could just cut the head off the source, you know, cut the head off the snake." And Dean is like, “Yeah, I mean, probably not gonna happen though. Should we go look for Jay?” And then they do.
C: Yeah. I like that Ruby tried the whole “everyone's gonna die” tactic because her thought is like, “Oh, Sam's an altruistic person, this’ll work, or whatever.” But Sam agrees to come back at the end because he just wants a better life for himself, and to not die young, I feel like. And I don't know. That's nice. Sorry, Sam, that you always striving for a better life, which is something that you wanted since you were a child, is what's gonna doom you once more. F. Also, another thing about this scene is that the dialogue is about as corny as most Supernatural dialogue, but, while I was watching it, I was like, “Huh! I don't feel like this is that corny.” And then I realized that the reason is because there's no piano music. [G laughs]
G: God! I completely forgot to mention, I think, in the last three episodes or something, that literally any time anything happens, the music is so in your face, and they just push through with it. And yeah, this scene didn't have sad music. And that is a big reason why it's fine.
C: Right. Yeah, yeah. If in any other episode with any other music track, I would be saying, "It's so corny, it's so corny," after every sentence you said.
-
C: When they go look for Jeb, they see that on his body is the tarot card for the Hanged Man. And then they also notice that, "Hey, the two people who died so far, people who were mean to Jay, so he's probably doing some kind of death transference thing via the cards."
G: I mean, this is also so interesting. Like, not mean to Charlie.
C: Yeah.
G: Mean to Jay specifically. And also specifically, like, there's no even like, "Oh, he just happened to be mean to Jay, but like, you know, like, there's other inciting factors." Like, when he was asked why he chose Vance, he was like, “That guy was disrespecting you!”
C: Yeah.
G: Crazy.
C: Something about the Charlie and Jay relationship is so Samruby, but I guess I'll get into it when the reveal happens.
Sam isn't able to follow Jay properly because he was able to slip him. And then they decide to just go into his hotel room with their guns fucking out, and, you know, shouting like, “Hey! Go up against the wall. We know what you did. We know you put a spell on those tarot cards doing real magic." And Jay is like, “What? There's no such thing as real magic, it's all just illusions and shit.” And Dean's like, “Oh, so Jeb Dexter found dead and hanged was an illusion?” Jay’s like, “Oh, no, what? Something happened to Jeb?” And he just clearly does not know what's going on. He clearly did not do anything. Sam and Dean are whispering to each other, “What do we do?” And it cuts to this old man tied in a chair. For what? They've already established that he didn't do it.
G: And also, it's just to set up wacky hijinks. [C laughs] Like, "Oh, he escapes, and Sam and Dean get caught by the police!"
C: Yeah.
G: Like, bruh. He literally is an escapeologist. Fuck off! [C laughs]
C: Yeah. Yeah. So as you said, the wacky hijinks are that Sam and Dean have their backs turned to Jay and are whispering to each other about how, if it's not him, it's like one of his friends, someone in his corner. And then, when they turn back around, Jay has escaped. So Sam and Dean run out of the room to find him, and then it turns out he was hiding in the closet. Slay. [G laughs]
C: And then, while Sam and Dean are running around, the police show up because Jay called them from the closet, and then he's like, “Go, officers! Arrest them!" Etc.
And then we have a talk between Jay and Charlie, and Jay is like, "They were saying that there was real magic involved in my act, and it actually killed Vance and Jeb back then." And Charlie is like, “Oh, that's ridiculous! No.” And Jay's like, "Well, I mean, my sudden skill is pretty weird, and those deaths were pretty coincidental." And Charlie's like, "Oh, I mean, there was no great loss there." Like, he literally hates them so much for being mean to Jay, like, one time.
Charlie's like, “Stop believing what they said. You're being ridiculous.” And Jay says, “Maybe I shouldn't do the show tonight, then.” And Charlie goes, “Are you kidding me? You have a sold-out house out there, you have to.” Also we find out- when we later see the scene where he's like, doing the show, a sold-out house is like 40 people. [both laugh] Like, god. No wonder he's so depressed. [G laughs]
G: Yeah. More people listen to this podcast-
C: To this fucking podcast than a sold-out show for Jay! [both laugh] Oh, boy.
And Jay finally confesses that the Table of Death thing was like, intended as like, he was trying to kill himself. It was a suicide attempt that he just managed to get out of alive, but he has no clue how.
And Charlie does not really give this its proper weight. He just goes like, "But you did make it out alive!" And then he says, like, "You know, back in your day you were the best I ever saw. And now you got it back. It doesn't matter how. Just seeing you like this again, it makes me feel young." And, you know, one more, like "You gotta do the show. Don't throw away this gift."
G: Now that I think about it like, it's so funny that he decided that the next victim is gonna be him. [both laughing]
C: Yeah. Yeah, that was really funny of him.
G: It's like, "Yeah, let's traumatize this guy to hell and back, baby!"
C: I mean, I think the reasoning is "He'll be so happy to see me again that it'll make him more likely to say yes to the immortality thing."
G: Yeah yeah yeah.
C: Which is very like, you know, "If his brother won't be dragged to Hell by hellhounds, I can at least engineer something like it." [G laughs]
G: Yeah.
C: So, you know, the Table of Death is happening again. And, you know, same thing as before. Spikes go down. It looks like he gets hit. But then he's okay. And then there's screams from backstage, and Charlie is dead, in quotes-
G: Whoo!
C: With those ten stab wounds in him. Woot woot.
-
G: Yeah. We are back at the hotel lobby where Sam and Dean were caught earlier. And Sam and Dean are like, “Yeah, thank you for bailing us out or dropping the charges, or whatever." Can- even if you drop the charges, does that mean they're just free to go?
C: I guess, because, like, it's only like his word against theirs, right? It's not like anyone else has evidence that they did anything.
G: Ah, I guess so.
C: So he could've just been like, "Whoopsie. They were just like doing a fun little prank on me because I'm like famous, and they wanted to meet me. I don't care enough to send them to jail about that. Bring them back," or whatever.
G: Sam and Dean go to a bar where they start talking, and they really hammer home the backstory. Jay was like this kid who like, I thikn the implication was he gambled for money and then was cheating at cards, which does remind me of one of Caravaggio's paintings. It's basically, like- I forgot the title of the painting. I think it's like The Magicians or something.
C: Oh.
G: But it's basically like, basically these two- I think it's like, card trick or something. And it's these two guys pulling card tricks against this rich aristocrat that they're playing with. And like, the reason why that was powerful or whatever is that, "Yeah, these two guys who are like pulling the wool over this rich person's eye is like, taking money from him, stealing money from him, or whatever whatever. But even if that guy goes home with an empty pocket that day, he's gonna go home to a beautiful house, to servants, to money that these two cannot even begin to fathom." So it's kind of like, a- I don't know. Like, "Let poor people steal shit!" [both laugh] kind of painting, I guess.
C: Nice.
G: Which I agree with.
Anyway, he was, in fact, that guy from the Caravaggio painting, and Charlie taught him tricks of the trade, I guess, quite literally. Tricks of the magic tricks trade. And then that's kind of how they started. Like, Charlie was mentoring him. And then they just started being buddies who were successful magicians, and then old and faded. And he says, “He was more than my friend. [C laughs] He was my brother.” Love that.
C: God! I- the one second between those two sentences, when I was like, “Holy shit,” was one of the most joyous of my life, and then it was gone. It was gone from me forever.
G: Jay's saying, "I should have listened to you guys." Sam and Dean go, "But you didn't do it. It's okay." And he is deadset on revenge.
Sam starts inquiring whether Vernon might be the guy. Jay's like, “No! Like, we're family, you know?” And Sam was like, "Yeah, Charlie and Vernon were your family, Jay." And Dean comes in and goes, “But now Charlie's gone.” Which is like, I don't know. It's so fucking corny to me. But.
C: Yeah.
G: Jay clarifies that Vernon would never do that. And then Dean says, "See. The thing about real magic is it's a whole lot like crack. People do surprising things once they get a taste of it." And the camera is so obviously pointing at Sam. And it's like, "Ohh. [C mumbling along] Start of the whole demon blood drinking is a drug" thing.
Anyway, Jay's like, "Okay. But this needs to be true, because Vernon's all I got left." Sad!
So Sam and Dean go to Vernon's room and just look for shit. Like, we start there, and, like, Jay, calls Vernon to be like, "Come to the theater with me." And Sam and Dean enter. And Sam’s like, “Wow, this play is like, so full of magic stuff.” And, you know, they start exploring the room.
We're back at the theater. And Vernon comes in. and he's saying, "Jay! The headliner gig is yours in this convention."
C: Very weird reaction after your mutual best friend died.
G: Yeah. Quite weird, quite odd. Vernon's like- Jay turns around, and he's looking so forlorn, and goes, "A day ago, if you told me I can be standing at this stage. But no, I can't do it, Vernon." And Vernon's like, "What are you talking about?" And it was like, it is very obvious what he is talking about. It is so obvious. There is nothing more obvious than what he is talking about. But Jay's like, "Yeah-"
C: For someone who didn't kill Charlie, he is being very suspicious.
G: Yeah. And Jay just says, "Charlie's gone!" And Vernon is doing the thing where it's like, "This is what he would have wanted. This is your shot. Our shot." Which is, you know, like, sends alarm bells ringing in Jay's head. And Jay is like Charlie is dead, and Vernon's like, "He was my friend, too, you know." Jay starts accusing him at this point, like, "Oh, is that how you treat a friend? You kill him, for what? So we could be back on top." First of all, it is odd to me that, like, "You kill him so that I could be back on top." Like, I don't think Vernon and Jay have that kind of- Vernon is the third in this relationship. [C laughs] Slaycation.
C: Yeah. Yeah. The whole "He was my friend, too" thing feels very much like how, whenever Cas dies, they only focus on Dean's grief. [G laughs] Like, Sam's just supposed to be fine with it.
G: Slay.
C: Slay.
G: Yeah, Vernon's like, "Dude, you're scaring me. What are you talking about?" And Jay keeps on berating him. And suddenly, somebody shows up. And he's like, "Wouldn't be so hard on him, Jay." He didn't do it.
C: Gasp.
G: And then we go to Vernon's hotel room again, and Dean is just looking through a bunch of posters. Then he sees a poster of someone with a birthmark by their eyebrow.
C: Which Charlie has.
G: And he's like, "Does this look like someone we know? Charlie has that birthmark." And I remember thinking while watching this episode, "I love that birthmark on him." Like, you know, having a birthmark on your face, I'm sure that, like, does things to you even if it's like, not even an unflattering birthmark like it's on this guy. I'm glad he became an actor, even if he has a birthmark. [laughing] Turns out, it's probably a fake birthmark.
C: Perhaps. Sad.
G: Sad! Anyway, we go back to the theater, and it is, in fact, Charlie, but now as a 28-year-old or something.
C: And he's played by Lucas from House M.D. even though you didn't notice.
G: Charlie is like, "Wow! It feels good to be young." And Jay is like, "What the hell! How old are you?" And he says, like, "Technically, I'm 28. But I've been around for so long. I was with Barnum. He gave me everything. He gave me the grimoire." Which we see a lot of later. I don't know if it's the grimoire. Or maybe it's a grimoire.
C: I think it's just a grimoire.
G: But like, what we see with Rowena later, it's like, it's real shit. I think it's like, made of human skin or something. And he said, like, "Yeah, I thought it was a scam, but then the spells worked. And then at the end, there's a spell for immortality. And I started using it." And he pulls out like, a deck of tarot cards, and he tells them, "Don't touch it. You don't even know what it will do." And Jay says, "You killed Vance. You killed Jeb Dexter." And Charlie says, like, "You think this is a parlor game? You were being humiliated by those punks! You wouldn't even defend yourself!"
C: And also, specifically, he says that this is a different spell than the immortality spell. Like, he pulled this out specifically just to help Jay with his career and also kill those guys.
G: Yeah. And he reveals to Vernon that like, "This is a gift that I gave to you. You wanted to kill yourself. I saved your life." And he says, like, "I was there for you. Like I've always been. Like I'll always be. Come with me, both of you. We're gonna have a blast. None of the aches and pains, like, all the know-how," blah blah blah. And they just refuse.
C: Well, Vernon's considering it.
G: I think so. Jay says no, but Charlie says like, “I've never had friends like the two of you before."
C: Agh!
G: "I've never offered this to anyone before. So let me do this for you.”
C: Yeah.
G: And Jay says, "Well, what's the price tag? Someone has to die?" And like, "This isn't right, Charlie. Like, what you're doing is not right."
C: And then Charlie says that like, “I don't want to come back alone to start all over alone." Which, agh! Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
G: Vernon kind of gets this. He goes like, "We can be young again." Charlie is saying, "The three of us together, vital and alive, forever." Crazy.
C: Yeah.
G: Crazy.
C: Yeah.
G: Dean comes in and says Shi-Long Lang's iconic line! [both laugh]
C: "Not so fast!"
G: [dramatically] "Not so fast!" [both laughing] I love that.
C: Yeah, but speaking of the Samruby of it all like, I feel like-
G: Wait. I have a question. How did Dean figure out that- What was the poster that he saw?
C: The poster was like, an old poster, from like, the 1900s. Like, early 1900s or something.
G: Ah, okay.
C: So he was like, “Charlie is old, but he's not that old.” [laughs] So he must be some kind of an immortal.
Speaking of the Samruby of at all, this feels so, like “Lucifer Rising." First off, the him killing those people because they were making fun of Jay is very like, [Mick Jagger voice] "Not funnay." [both laugh]
G: Not funnay!
C: - And then killing that demon in the 4.09 flashback. And like, I don't know. This is so like, he genuinely thinks that both of them will be like happy about this and want to take the deal. I really like the idea of like, people who haven't really felt love before, like, feeling it for the first time, but because they're also #evil, like, the ways that they express it betray how much they really don't know the person that they purport to love. And the whole like, dark gift, blah blah blah, shit here feels very like Ruby's “I'm giving you these powers and we're gonna rule Hell together, and won't that be so great? What do you mean you're upset?” And Jay uses the whole, “You used me" terminology as well, so.
G: While you were saying that, I felt the need to clarify that when Hannibal tells Will [C laughs] that “I gave you a gift, but you didn't want it,” Will replies, “Didn't I?”
C: Oh.
G: Yeah, it's crazy.
Anyway, Sam and Dean enter, and they're saying, [dramatic] “No, not so fast! [C laughs] You're not gonna be immortal!” And then Charlie just starts choking him, like, hanging him. I don't know, stuff happens.
C: Yeah. Sam gets put on the table.
G: Sam gets put on the table. And suddenly, Charlie gets stabbed in the stomach, and he is bleeding out. And what happened was Jay stabbed himself. Like, he pickpocketed a bunch of cards, the tarot cards from Charlie, and then left one that's, I don't know, someone's getting stabbed or whatever. Then he stabbed himself.
C: It was The Magician.
G: Oh, really?
C: Yeah.
G: He stabbed himself so the injury transfers to Charlie, and Charlie is like, “You picked these strangers over me?”
C: Oh my god.
G: And then dies. And Sam and Dean are fine. Hell yeah.
C: And it's so delicious because I feel like Jay would only have the skill to do that because of the spell that Charlie put on him. Because we see later he can barely shuffle a deck of cards. Like, evil contains the seeds of its own destruction, but the evil seeds are because of love, etc etc.
G: Wow! Poetic. [C laughs]
-
C: We cut to a bar where Jay is hanging out, and he's trying to shuffle a deck of cards, and he’s not doing well. Poor guy. Sam and Dean come in, and they're trying to do a nice thing, where they're like, “Hey, we wanted to thank you for saving our lives yesterday.” And Jay says, “Who give a shit.” But specifically he's very upset because he killed his best friend yesterday, and Vernon left, doesn't want to speak to him ever again because he killed Charlie. And Dean says some dumb shit about how like, “You know Charlie was never going to give up what he was doing. So you did the right thing.” And you know, Jay, thankfully, is not having it. I'm really glad that we have an episode where the people that they quote unquote “saved”, but like not really, are miserable and not grateful, you know?
G: Yeah.
C: Because it’s so annoying to have people week after week be horribly traumatized and have that trauma never manifest itself as anger at Sam and Dean. So yeah, Jay says, “Are you sure about that?” in response to Dean saying that, which I think makes sense, because Charlie said this was the first time he had friends like them. Like, this is his go #1 at love and shit. He's not gonna be very good at it, but maybe later, he will be. He says, “Charlie was like my brother, and now he's dead because I did the right thing. He offered me a gift, and I just threw it back in his face. So now I have to spend the rest of my life old and alone. What's so right about that?” It's soo good.
G: And this was so interesting to me, because, while it was happening, I was thinking to myself, "Every time they do something like this in Supernatural, it always goes round about to like what is happening with Sam and Dean." You know how when Anna was like [C laughing], "I was on the road with a father who wouldn't even respond." And it's like, "No, you weren't. You're not on the road. That's like, you're only saying that because it's the Sam and Dean show." This one, the whole time it was happening, I was thinking, “Oh, how are they gonna circle back to this with Sam or Dean? Or like, what's the relation or whatever?" But it's not as direct.
C: Yeah.
G: Like, whatever conclusion Sam gets from this, it's not direct in that way. And that makes it feel like this is actually something Jay is experiencing as a person, as like a character, like devoid of Sam and Dean, you know? He is just - this is just what he's feeling. And like, he does not exist in service of furthering Sam and Dean's journey, or whatever. I like that.
C: Yeah.
I do find it annoying, the brother language, though. Because, like, we've already talked about Supernatural and the nuclear family. And I feel like the only reason that they consider this an acceptable model for a relationship is because they say that they're like brothers. And so that's like Sam and Dean's family structure. So then they're like, “Okay, well, that's okay, then.” But like, I feel like, if they were like, "This is queerplatonic or romantic," they would not allow it to happen. So, sad!
Also, like, during this whole scene, like, yeah, Sam is coming to a realization of his own, but it's not direct. Because he looks very emotional and teary at all this. I do think there's like, a way to look at this as a direct thing. As like, the gift like being like Ruby's demon blood thing, and the powers that Sam is going to get from them. But I feel like that's not really what Sam is thinking.
G: It's not.
C: So that's interesting. Though I think maybe just the general idea of like, "You should redefine what you think the right thing is" is something that sticks with him?
G: Yeah. But it's not like one is to one, you know?
C: Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
And then Jay decides to leave, and he leaves his card deck on the table, and the bartender's like “Hey, Jay, your cards,” and he says, “Throw them away.” And, you know, everyone's very miserable. Dean says that he's gonna get a beer, and Sam says, “I'm gonna take a walk.” And we go to the last scene. It's dark. There's an alleyway with the car parked in front of it. We're all very serious and emotional, and then suddenly, there's this one car that like- did you notice that one car that just fucking bounces?
G: Yeah. It looks exactly like the Impala.
C: It looks like the Impala, and it looks like the tire pressure is insane [G laughs] because it is like, bouncing down the road.
G: Yeah.
C: Which really undercuts the tension of everything. [G laughs] But, you know, after that car passes by, Sam walks in. He opens the door to the car, and it's Ruby's car, and I wish I was one of the people who knew what car models were, so that I could say something about her choice of car, but I can't.
And he goes in the door and he tells her, “Okay. I'm in." And Ruby asks, "What changed your mind?" And I feel like I would expect more sarcasm from her, but this is a moment where it seems like she just genuinely does want to know. And I'm sure part of why she wants to know is like, for manipulation purposes, to put in her Sam file. I also think she's just curious because she is familiar with him in a way, as a person, and somewhat fond of him. Like, every time I say, like, “They're in love for real,” what I mean is this is not real, but there are moments of real affection that I see come through in their relationship, and those things make me soo insane, and I feel like this is one of the moments.
G: Yeah.
C: And then he says, “I don't want to be doing this when I'm an old man.” Which doesn't make any sense because if you're not doing this, you'll die.
G: I have no idea.
C: Like, [laughs] what do you mean?
G: I love this because it's like, you know, I think I love this episode, because it's like, it is not about Sam and Dean.
C: Yeah.
G: All the Sam and Dean scenes kind of don't make sense. I think Julie Siege just wanted to write about all these other people, and Sam and Dean just happen to be there. Like, even-
C: I feel like these are OCs she's developed for a while, but she's like, "Well, they can't carry a whole thing on their own. Let's put them into Supernatural."
G: Yeah. And what's especially funny to me is, usually Sam and Dean save people in a way, right? They do absolutely no saving in this episode. They show up, and Jay saves them.
C: They make Jay aware of the situation, maybe.
G: Yeah. Jay saves them. So like, okay.
C: Yeah.
G: So I think that could be it for our post-episode synopsis. But do you have anything more?
C: No. Old man yaoi.
G: Old man yaoi.
-
G: Okay. Best Line/Worst Line.
C: Huh.
G: What's your best line?
C: I really liked "So now I have to spend the rest of my life old and alone." It's very like, "Oh. I believe that. And you're right. Like, these people are it for you." Very emotionally affecting.
G: Yeah. I actually- I don't know. I liked the "He offered me a gift, and I just threw it back in his face."
C: [laughs] For Hannibal reasons?
G: For Hannibal reasons, yeah!
C: Slay.
G: What's the worst line?
C: Uh...
G: Every time Sam and Dean spoke to each other, I'm like, "Girl." [C laughing] I don't know. I guess I don't like the whole like, "You want to end up like Travis? Or Gordon?" God.
C: Oh, yeah, that was fucking annoying.
G: And then Dean being like-
C: So mean to Bobby!
G: "Oh, yeah, Bobby. Poster child for growing old gracefully." Like, fuck off!
C: He's literally fine!
G: He's fine, you asshole.
C: He's nice.
G: He's normal! [both laugh]
What's your best and worst? Well, what's your worst, I guess?
C: I can't think of any besides yours. I mean, I guess it was not nice of them to make fun of Jeb's eyeliner.
G: Yeah, I guess.
C: But mostly I agree with what you said. I just want to see if there's anything else, and there isn't.
G: Yeah. How about our spreadsheet?
C: Spread those sheets.
G: This one, I think, is interesting. We don't have racism. We don't have misogyny.
C: Well, because there's no women in it-
G: Or people of color, yeah.
C: Well, there's Ruby, but there's no Dean and Ruby in it. That's the fun part.
G: Homophobia.
C: I think- Okay, there's the Chief, and there's the eyeliner.
G: Yeah.
C: And I think the Chief thing is homophobic in that, like, they could have sent him to like a dominatrix or something, right?
G: Yeah.
C: But like, they were like, "It'll be extra funny if it's a leather daddy." So that's something.
G: I don't know. Like, I hesitate to so call it homophobia.
C: Really. Okay.
G: I mean, if this was in any other show, I would've been like, "I don't think it's homophobic."
C: That's true. But it's in Supernatural. [G laughs]
G: Yeah.
C: I mean, it is in Supernatural, though.
G: It is. Yeah, exactly.
C: And it is in 2009, which I think- sometimes like I forget how the era means that things that I just find like fine and normal would be homophobia. Like, that poor, dead, gay intern. That stuff was homophobic when it was written because of the parts of it that were supposed to be funny. So I think there's something there.
Also, we gave "Wishful Thinking" [G laughing] a 1 just for Dean calling Amaretto "a girl drink."
G: [laughs] I mean, we can give this a 2.
C: Okay, yeah, that seems correct. Yeah. Okay. 0, 0, 2. We did it.
G: Well. I would say this is probably a mid-8s episode.
C: For the IMDbs?
G: 8.4 is my guess. Yeah, we are in, in fact, the IMDb.
C: Yeah, I really liked it, but I don't know how other people are gonna feel about it. Because a lot of people hate when episodes don't focus on Sam and Dean.
G: Sam and Dean, yeah.
C: So... but it was compelling! I was compelled. I don't know whether to go above or below you. I'm gonna go above just because it's what my heart says, even though I know I'm wrong. So an 8.5.
G: Okay, let's see.
Bro, it's a 7.9.
C: What are they- what? For what? Why? What do they hate about it so much?
Wasn't- okay, "Family Remains" was a 7.9 too, which, that one at least makes sense. But what do they dislike about it?
G: They think the Chief thing is queerbait with Dean.
C: Huh. Wait, that's why, it's rated low?
G: No, this is actually a 10 over 10. But-
C: Oh. If you wanted to, you could read his, like, "I think I'm gonna throw up" thing as "I think I hauve Covid" horny thing thing if you wanted?
G: Yeah.
C: People like to cut that scene so it goes straight from the guy showing up to Dean swallowing to make it seem more like an arousal response, so I can see why some people would think that. But, I don't know. It's just clearly just them having a laugh.
Okay, thank god. cubsandculture calls it "One of the very best episodes. A tragicomedy to its core," and it says that it's "one of the most overtly homosexual and/or homoerotic episodes in the entire series with the bond between Jay and Charlie." [G laughs] Yeah, they say it almost plays out like a Hays' Code era gay villain, which I think is correct.
G: That's the review that I quoted.
C: Oh, yeah, no, it does say that it's queerbaiting with Dean to have the Chief. I mean, maybe like, like with an established pattern, you could like, put it in as one of the things. But yeah.
This one references Rufus and Dean's conversation, which, yeah, correct. It is important to think about.
G: Yeah. It is something you think about!
C: This one ends with - it starts with talking about the episode, and then it ends with, "This is why I stopped watching at Season 9. It gets depressing the longer it goes because it's just the sheer time these two guys have spent in this miserable situation." So real. [G laughs]
G: I mean, so do we.
C: Yeah. yeah.
None of these really explain why they don't like the episode.
G: Yeah. But I think what happens is when fewer people rate an episode, it is most of the time rated lower.
C: Right. Because only people with very strong opinions either way would comment.
G: Yeah. Like, for example, "Heaven and Hell" was an 8.8, right? And 5.6k people rated it. This one has 4.6k ratings, and it's rated lower.
C: I see.
G: I mean, recently, I've been rewatching Kim's Convenience, and I looked up the IMDb for that, and it is shockingly low. And I'm like, "Oh, it's because less people watch it."
G: There's a review praising Barry Bostwick, right? So I went to his to his IMDb page, and literally the first thing in his description is "tall," and then in open-close parentheses, "(6'4")." [laughing
C: Wow, just like Jared Padalecki.
G: I love that! He is literally tall (6'4").
G: Okay, I think that's it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 4, Episode 13: "After School Special"!
C: Oh! Okay.
G: Yeah! Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.
C: Follow us on social media!
G: We're gonna see the jacket! We're gonna see the leather jacket! It's gonna be on teenage Dean!
C: Aw. That's nice. And we get to see- is this the one where Sam-
G: Is in high school, yeah.
C: - and his English teacher talk? Yeah. What a sweet kid.
G: I guess middle school.
C: Well. Follow us on social media. We are on twitter at twitter.com/BeautiesPodcast and on Tumblr actually at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.
G: Yeah. If you have any feedback, comments, or inquiries, you can email us at
[email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!
[guitar music]
-
[beep]
G: She said, "I have sensitive hearing. Don't laugh so loud!"
C: Aww. She's just like your cat from 4.11 or 4.10.
G: Yeah. You know what? That cat has not stopped biting me. I think maybe he just hates me.
C: Huh! Maybe.
G: But he loves to be on my bed. This is the issue. He would go to my bed, and I'd be like, "Hi! You're in my bed!" And then he just starts biting me? [C laughs] It's a lovely experience
C: Does he enjoy being in your bed when you're not there?
G: No. He only goes to my bad when I'm in there.
C: Like, he only goes there to bite you. [G laughs]
G: Well, I like to think that he goes there because he loves me, and he wants to cuddle. But I think he also wants to bite me.
C: Uh-huh. I mean, maybe this is just like a cute aggression response.
G: Oh yeah!
C: Like, maybe he loves you so much that he can't handle it.
G: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's not that bad.
C: Anyway.
G: It's chewtoy era for me.
C: Yeah.
G: Anyway...
-
[beep]
G: You know, I watch Rhett & Link, and they often say that when they were in grade school or something, they were made to memorize every county in North Carolina. So like, they were very familiar with the North Carolina counties. Like, they could name like all hundred of them or something because they were trained to do that from a young age. Did you ever experience that? [laughs] Whichever state you're from, whatever. [C laughs] Do you have counties in- in the whatever state you're from? [laughing] I don't know what-
C: There are counties in the whatever state I'm from, but I did not memorize them. I feel like I could probably list a decent amount of them because of a research project that I did at school. But probably not all of them.
G: Oh, yeah. I mean, I do remember that one time that a writer went to your school and asked you where you live, and you couldn't say, [C laughs] and she was like, "You should figure it out. You do live here, right?" [laughing]
C: She was- yeah. She was like, "Oh, did you just move here?" And I was like, "... No." And she was like, "Maybe you should look at a map sometime." [G laughing] And I was like, “Oh my god, I can't believe I was humiliated by Victoria Chang, author of Barbie Chang and also like, The Boss, which was the poetry book we were reading at hers." But yeah.
G: Yeah. Wonderful.
C: And then she signed my copy of The Boss with like, “Glad I got to help you get oriented” or something. Like, shut up, Victoria!
G: That's sweet, though. I feel like that's a more memorable experience than if she just went, "Hi! Sign. Bye!" you know?
C: I would rather have a neutral-
G: Now you are mortified for life! [laughing]
C: Yeah. Exactly. And it's so terrible because I was already discussing with my English teacher how I wanted her to fuck me so bad before this. [G laughs] Anyway.
G: Yeah. Crystal has a very normal reaction to people with authority.
C: [laughing] Shut up!
G: The podcasters need not know that. The podcast listeners need not know that.
C: Yeah, yeah.
G: But now they do!
C: I'm the authority in the podcast listener's mind. [G laughing]
G: Well. God, we are all over this episode. Well.
-
[beep]
C: Wait, you did not recognize him? At all?
G: Not at all. Not at all.
C: Lucas is like, not too minor of a minor character.
G: Yeah, no idea who it is.
C: You don't re- you don't remember House hiring a private investigator?
G: No. You know who I remember? The mouse?
C: Who?
G: Steve McQueen.
C: Oh my god, Steve McQueen! Wasn't Steve a rat?
G: Look. [laughs] I'm not a zoology major. [C laughs]
C: Yeah, it's a rat. He's a rat. Anyway.
G: Yeah. Love him.
C: Young Charlie does not look like BJA due to he is Lucas from House M.D., but perhaps with the absence of that.
G: I can't believe I watched House watch a rat Steve McQueen and still was like, "Yeah, that was a reference to the Cars movies." [both laugh] I mean, I just assumed that Steve McQueen, Dean Winchester-
C: I mean, he likes monster trucks. Is the Cars movies really that far from that?
G: Exactly! He loves a monster trucks show, so, you know.
C: Yeah.
-
[beep]
G: I want to fucking tell you about Hannibal. Can I? I'll just do it
C: Yeah.
G: We've been recording for so long anyway. Who give a shit?
C: Who give a shit? Okay. Tell me about Hannibal.
G: 'Cause the thing is, throughout that season, Will was playing- was double-bluffing or whatever. It's like, he's on the FBI's side, but the way he's doing it, he is befriending Hannibal. Like, he's doing what Hannibal wants him to do. But then, as it goes on further, it becomes blurrier and blurrier which side he's actually betraying. And he was supposed to- and at the end of it, when he realizes that the FBI are probably gonna kill Hannibal or whatever, and they're supposed to run away together, 'cause that's the thing. They're supposed to run away together that night. And then, like, Will was thinking, "I wouldn't run away" or "We wouldn't run away together. I'm just gonna let the FBI kill him" or whatever. And then he realizes, like, "Oh, I can't do that." So he calls Hannibal and goes, "Run."
C: Uh-huh.
G: And the way Hannibal interpreted that was, like, demeaning. Like, he's taunting him or whatever. He didn't understand that Will wanted to run away with him or wanted to save him or whatever.
C: Ohh.
G: He thought that Will was- Will betrayed him, basically. And so him being like, [dramatic] "I gave you a gift! But you didn't want it!" Will was like, "No, I did, though. But you still gutted me and left me on the floor to bleed out, so. And also killed our-"
C: Daughter?
G: "- adopted daughter." Crazy, crazy show.
C: Yeah.
G: And next season, he tells someone, like, Will, "I wanted to run away with him that night, and in a way, I still want to do it." Like, bruh! At this point? [C laughs] But I support it.
C: Yeah. Yeah.
G: Hannibal's crazy. It's a crazy show. [C laughs] God, we need to watch it together! But I know you don't like- don't want to.
C: Well.
G: But we should. But we should. But you won't.
C: But I won't.
G: Maybe we can do a thing where I watch it and then I tell you about it, a la when you told me beat for beat everything that happens in-
C: The first episode of Interview with the Vampire. And then the rest of the episodes [laughs], so yes.
G: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
2 notes
·
View notes