sylvie: I hate you.

loki, to himself: enemies to lovers, slowburn, angst with happy ending, 300k+ words

simpler times…

“Her name was Sylvie”

“Because we’re the same”

“See? We’re both selfish”

These three quotes have attached themselves to my brain and won’t let go and so I’m gonna chatter about them because I have so many thoughts and look. I am quite aware there is a focus on Sylvie with these. I can’t help it, she’s my favourite, her tragic backstory, insane grin and absolute commitment to her beliefs have captivated me

Okay so first one: “Her name was Sylvie.” Loki, with the very real possibility she’s been killed, holding the line for her. The identity she forged for herself, the escapism and the rebellion and the individuality that’s so important to her, he not only respects, but holds the line for her. You fell for yourself; no, because she isn’t me, she’s Sylvie. He cares for her, he fell for Sylvie, the fierce woman who teases him and challenges him and fights for life with everything she’s got. And he does reach Mobius. Mobius plays it off mockingly during the interrogation “is that with an ie or just an i?” but he remembers it and he uses it. He says to Ravonna, “Why didn’t you let me interrogate Sylvie?” Like it’s so important to have someone who cares, someone in your corner. There’s so much packed into four words

“Because we’re the same.” The flip side of the individuality is the fact that they are variants of each other and that’s such a fascinating and important and beautiful part of the narrative. Sylvie violently establishes her individuality and separateness from the Loki conglomerate at the beginning, but she choses to reassure Loki that he can do it by using their sameness. Like seriously I cannot express how amazing that character development is there. She’s now so much more comfortable in her identity because of him. Because of him, Loki, fresh off the sacred timeline, who was meant to “cause pain and suffering and death” only, he has helped her feel more comfortable in her own skin, by caring and just being himself. That’s awesome. And it’s also romantic as hell. Win win

“See? We’re both selfish.” Painful. Devastating. Beautiful. Harder to pin down why I like it so much because I haven’t had two years to chew on it yet but here we go let’s see. Ok so: it’s an extension of the we’re the same module, and even estranged from him, she’s still willing to accept what he and she share. There’s still care there; it isn’t what they had in season one, but it’s there all the same. She was horrified by the timeslipping and concerned for him, so, she takes him drinking. That’s my hedonistic girl. But the point being that she sees him in pain and is trying to care for him, in her way. So, we get there, conversation, and we get to the other thing that’s fascinating about it: at the time Sylvie owns the “you’re so selfish” when it’s thrown at her like “of course I’m selfish, I want a life, what’s wrong with wanting something?” which is amazing, because I really do love a character who is not only willing to admit to selfishness, but embraces it, owns it, takes pride in it, even. Like fuck yeah that’s my girl. But but but, and here’s the sticker: with this line “See? We’re both selfish.” we see that maybe it did get under her skin, the way that only he can really hurt her like this, precisely because of how much she cares for him, this vulnerability that she has with him, one of the few people who she’s taken down her walls before. But she also can see how low and rough the spot he’s in is right now and she cares about him and wants to help him, so it could be argued she’s using it like she used their sameness to reassure him last season. She says “we’re both selfish” in the same breath that she told him being selfish isn’t bad; so essentially: it’s ok, Loki, it’s okay to want things, we both wants things, it’s normal

So yeah, I’m completely normal about these characters this show and these quotes

I will never forgive Marvel for how they first cowardly played down Loki (and Sylvie’s) queer identities and then retconned and wasted the potential of their romance and I will never trust the MCU again

My former comfort ship now only makes me mad and sad and frustrated

99% sure i've posted this here before but i can't find that post so here you go. appreciate it anew (or just new) pls.

A bit of a rant: on Sylvie

Okay, look, as a preface: I do not hate Sylvie. I feel like I see a lot of hate for the character from a lot of people not Sylkie shippers, and I definitely do not hate her, even if the ship is something I struggle to see.

I actually like Sylvie's character a lot. She has had to struggle and fight and flee for something like a thousand years. I honestly don't begrudge her desire to stay in a quiet universe and just live a life. I want that for her, even.

Is she being a huge dick to Loki every time they interact this season? Yes. She refuses to listen to him (though he isn't being entirely straight with her either, to be fair), and she continually belittles his own choices and refuses to take responsibility for her own. She blames him and the TVA for the destruction of timelines, even though Dox's crew was, at the time, acting as a rogue element, and the issues that the timelines and TVA are currently facing are entirely her fault.

Again, I totally understand why she didn't listen to Loki at the end of season 1. It makes sense that she wouldn't want trust anything that He Who Remains had to say, and it makes sense that she wouldn't trust Loki at all. She barely knows him, and she's been alone her entire life. She doesn't really remember her life before the TVA ruined it. She has no friends, no allies. So yes, it was foolish of her to not stop and think for like ten seconds, but killing He Who Remains had been her ultimate goal for centuries. Of course she was going to do it.

HOWEVER. Because she killed He Who Remains, the multiverse is in danger. And just because I understand her inability to accept responsibility for her actions, does not mean I condone it. The lady is incredibly emotionally stunted. Of course she doesn't know how to take responsibility. She's been blaming other people for her problems her entire life (and most of that was 100% justified). To stop doing so now, when she hasn't had a chance to learn, would be bad writing.

I am all for a good character arc and a redemption story. Loki's himself has been...a little rushed. And they haven't touched on the trauma that was his time Before New York at all since that like, thirty seconds in season 1. Sure, he mentions NY a little flippantly here in season 2, but we all know that was just a way to get Mobius to talk. Point is, they have set Sylvie up for a good character arc, and kind of fast tracked Loki's without actually talking about some of the things I'm most interested in, but...eh, whatever. I can rant about that another time.

What I don't understand though, is Sylkie shippers. Like...number one, are we watching the same show? Season 1 seemed to have some unrequited pining going on, on Loki's side, especially before Loki and Mobius made up, but Sylvie has never shown any interest in Loki beyond that of a tentative ally. And really, there's no reason she should. When would Sylvie have had time, ever in her life, to think of romance beyond, possibly, an errant daydream? And this season, it really seems like she can hardly stand him.

Every time they interact, she lashes out, she tries to hurt him. She has told him, unequivocally, to leave her alone, multiple times. She listened to him say that he feared being alone most of all, and then she left him (I assume she has a tab at that bar, otherwise who the hell paid for those shots, and also, I've never met a bartender who would hear 'two bourbons' and just pour shots immediately, if it isn't a common order for that patron, but that's yet another rant for another day).

Like, she just seems to be going out of her way to be cruel, to drag him down, to blame him for everything, and to paint him as the bad guy. Sure, he wants to have his friends back, and maybe that IS selfish, but he ALSO wants to save the TVA because he believes that will save the multiverse, and that isn't, but she knows that once she pokes any holes in the story he's concocted for himself, he's only going to dwell on the bad side. Which he does. Her goal, I assume, is to get him out of her hair and leave her alone. She doesn't want to be involved with all this TVA stuff anymore. And...yeah, fair enough, except that the multiverse is actively disintegrating. Which is at least...oh, 45% her fault. (I'll grant that most of the fault lies on the heads of the old TVA, He Who Remains and Ravonna. And maybe like 3% Loki's fault. Everyone can take somewhat a share of the blame, but she really was trying to do the most. And she is the only one of our 'heroes' who hasn't taken any responsibility for the problems now facing the multiverse).

Look, I have shipped Loki with almost every single character he has had screen time with, if the story is well written enough for it to make sense. I've even read a Sylkie story that I actually managed to really get behind. (It took place before season 2, the premise being that in their fight at the Citadel, there was an accident and they ended up in Westview during the events of Wandavision, and were paired as a husband/wife duo for the show. It made sense, and there was enough of a build of their relationship that I was like...yeah, sure).

The writers of this show have NOT done their due diligence to make Sylkie make sense. In season 1, I could see that he might have a thing for her. But I never saw that being reciprocated.

Sylvie needs friends, she needs to learn how to trust, she needs stability, and she needs to figure out who she is as a person when she isn't on the run. She does NOT need a romance. A romance at this stage would be incredibly bad for her, really, if we give a shit about a fictional character's mental health.

I like Sylvie as a character. I think her arc has been interesting, but she is definitely still in the middle of it, and it is nowhere near resolved. I can't see a single instance in the show where she showed a romantic interest in Loki. (And...what, she kissed him? That was only to get him distracted enough to kick him out a time door so she could kill He Who Remains).

If this season ends with Sylkie endgame, I will have honestly lost faith in Marvel's ability to write a good story entirely. If they want the two of them to be together, they have to write them together. They have to actually be a team, not just constantly bickering (or in this season, Loki begging for her help and her telling him to stuff it). She only comes to help because her own universe gets shredded, not because she wanted to help Loki or save the other universes. She would not be good for him, at least not right now. That relationship would be hella toxic. Has she ever done anything for him? Just for him, not because he was useful to her in some way?

Look, TL;DR, I like Sylvie as a character and I want to see her grow and thrive, but Sylkie makes no sense and if they go that route this season it is bad writing. MCU has always been bad at romance and character development, but this would take the cake.

me having a good time, looking at sylki stuff: :)

the comments being filled with sylki hate:

Loki: *kills his biological father then tries to blow up an entire planet with all its inhabitants because he is suffering and desperately needd his father's approval*

Marvel fandom/Loki Stans: ohhh my poor baby 🥺💚🥺💚 he is such a complex character!!!!!! he did nothing wrong!!!!! he is just a poor sad boy!!!! 🥺🥺🥺🥺💚💚💚💚💚 with a lot of deep pain 💚🥺💚🥺💚 we can't treat him like a villain!!!! he's an angel 💚🥺💚🥺💚🥺💚🥺💚 we can understand him! 💚💚💚💚💚💚 I so want to hug them 💚🥺💚🥺💚🥺 love u Loki 🐍💚🐍💚🐍💚 my baby 🥺💚🥺💚🥺💚

Sylvie: *kill the man who destroyed her timeline with her world and all those she loved inside when she was a child, and forced her to flee all her life, to live from childhood in the traumatic places that are the apocalypses, alone, loving no one and being loved by no one, after devoting her whole life to this plan and sincerely thinking of making the right choice and helping people*

Marvel fandom/Loki Stans: what a bitch!!!!!🤬🤬🤬🤬 she's horrible and selfish and unbearable and always pissed off!!! 🤬🤬🤬 she could have grown up and moved on!!!!! 🤬🤬 looks like a child!!!! she only thinks of herself 😡😡😡😡 I hate her !!!! worst character in the MCU!!!!!

(yep this is mysoginy and nothing else lol)

It's pretty crazy that the anti Lokius tag is actually just as full of anti Sylki ! Like... I will never understand why the Sylki relationship is so hated. Not loving is one thing. But hated with justification for bullshit that is not in the series seems legion... (I want to say that most Sylki do not hate the Lokius relationship, most love it, but simply for what it is, namely a friendship relationship, the first true friendship that Loki shares)

SOPH HOW ARE YOU ALLOWED TO BE SO PRETTY

loki: if a beautiful person disagrees with me i will immediately change my views. i have no principles.

sylvie: well maybe you should have principles.

loki: you're right, maybe i should.

sylvie: good.

sylvie: wait,—

person making edits of sylvie and loki fighting to the ten minute version of all too well: you are going straight to Valhalla

You know I think the final scene with Sylvie is really interesting because I’ve seen quite a few people being all “wtf? why is she so chill and carefree? Loki just sacrificed himself! did she love him at all?” and it’s just so interesting. Bc like, yeah, I can see how it looks that way on the surface. But then, none of these are surface characters. Yes, she looks happy. But it’s also weird being here without him. She’ll miss him. Of course she’ll miss him. Maybe she’ll even find a way to visit him. But it’s also true that he sacrificed himself, sacrificed himself to save them all, and part of that, is for her. He couldn’t kill her; instead he won her a universe in which she’s safe and free. And she repays his sacrifice by making the most of being safe and free! That feels more fitting than her being miserable, to me. She’ll miss him, because of course she will, he had a big impact on her life, and sacrificed himself, but all of space time is hers! The bird that flies free after being released from a cage is not ungrateful. Just free. Just enjoying being free. “Where’ll you go?” Heck if she knows! Loki won the sky, and the sky is hers

for the bingo thing sylvie

thank you for the ask! Sylvie my beloved 💚

Sylvie haters: I’m not a misogynist!!!!!!!!! Also Sylvie haters: Women aren’t people :)