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lordystrange · 10 months

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So let me get this straight (pun intended)

In season 1 Mike meets El in the woods. We’ve been shown other people mistaking her as a boy first, but there’s no way Mike did that. He took her home because it was love at first sight, not because he’s a caring human being and she was alone in the dark woods wearing nothing but a t-shirt in the rain.

Then he makes a plan to get his mother to deal with this in the morning. To send her back to the Pennhurst (which we now know to be a mental hospital), because it was love at first sight?

But then when he finds out she has these cool powers, he realizes she could help finding Will and he decides to keep her. Because it was love at first sight?

Then they have a few moments of understanding and a few moments of lying and fighting and it affects everyone in the party and Lucas makes the marriage comment and then the comment about Mike only liking El because she isn’t repulsed by him like most girls are. But only the marriage comment counts because it was love at first sight?

And then a few days after meeting her, right after discussing how Nancy could be El’s new sister and El asking if Mike would like her brother, Mike decides that’s the right moment to kiss her. Because it was love at first sight? And then she disappears.

Then in season 2 we see El calling for Mike in the UD. A situation parallelled to other ships like Jancy and Lumax and Byler, but unlike with those ships, the other one is not there for her. El finds her own way out with no Mike around. Because it was love at first sight?

And we saw in s1 how Mike only heard someone breathing through the radio, and even though he just saw Will’s dead body, he believed it was him and kept looking for him. But in s2 we see how Mike actually briefly sees El for a couple times and he tells Will about it, but he still doesn’t go looking for her. Even though we see him holding on to hope that she’s alive, calling for her on the radio, he doesn’t go looking for her. Because it was love at first sight?

And they are separated for almost entire season and they finally meet, Mike spends like two seconds with her and then starts raging at Hopper. Because this was not about him feeling guilty about El’s self sacrifice but instead about him being in love with her. Because it was love at first sight?

And then in season 3 they have suddenly been together like 6 months. And we didn’t get to see their journey because why would we wanna see the main couple’s first moments in a serious romantic relationship. Because it was love at first sight?

And they have been written to be this annoying couple who only make out and ignore their friends all the time. And they they have stupid, comedic fights and a break-up. And we’ve told how in these situations the boy soon comes crawling back begging for forgiveness and we do see that happening but not to El. And we also see how El doesn’t know what she likes and how Max teaches her that there’s more to life than stupid boys. Why? Because it was love at first sight?

And then shit goes down and then we have a 3 months long time skip and then suddenly El says ily to Mike and kisses him and he doesn’t kiss back but now they are back together. With no build-up to it. Because it was love at first sight?

And in season 4 we learn that Mike hasn’t been able to even write ily back to El. We learn that El wants to pretend like she’s popular to Mike because she’s insicure, and Mike tries to pretend like he’s not a nerd to El because he’s insicure. And there are fights between Mike and El because of Mike and El’s relationship AND between Mike and Will because of Mike and El’s relationship. And we keep seeing scenes with this love triangle and Mike and El’s relationship not working because they don’t understand each other. Because it was love at first sight?

And they get separated again but instead of showing us them doing some growing together or at least towards one another, we see El growing independent and Mike growing apart. Until they meet again with no kiss and clearly still not on the same page. And soon shit goes down again and we need Mike to say ily to El because that’s the only way this girl could have strength to save her bestie. Because it was love at first sight?

And then we see the monologue that’s disappointingly vague and the ilys aren’t working and Mike is pushed to do it by Will and he uses same words as Will and Eddie and he tells her it was love at first sight and we are supposed to believe him. And it doesn’t save the world, not even Max, but we are still supposed to believe him. Why?

Is this really supposed to be the main ship? The groundbreaking love story? Something unique and never-been-done-before? (Can’t argue with that tho…)

I don’t understand why people love them. Why do people love them?

Mileven shippers often say that Byler shippers only ship Byler because it’s a gay ship…

I wonder where that argument comes from. Is it possibly rooted in them only shipping Mileven because it is a straight ship?

#byler #anti milkvan #anti mileven #stranger things #stranger things ships #milkvan analysis #milkvan slander #byler tumblr #byler is endgame #byler endgame

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bylertruther · 1 year

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mike, eleven + their fight and how his speech proves to her that which she already knew from the beginning

MIKE: I… I care for you… so much. EL: "Care." [Shrugs.] But you don't… you don't love me anymore? MIKE: What… Who… Who said that I didn't?

fascinating how mike's first reaction is to deflect, shift blame, and worry that there's someone doubting their true feelings.

fascinating how mike could've easily said something like "of course i do!" which gives him an out, allows him to say it without Saying It, but he doesn't. he says "who said that i didn't?" which doesn't deny her claim—and she knows this. she catches it and it marks a serious shift in this fight, because her suspicions have been confirmed.

he wonders who's putting these ideas in her head, who's managed to shatter the illusion they've built, when she's telling him very directly that he's the one making her feel like this. mike tries to deny it, but el realizes she's caught him in a lie ("el's not stupid", "she knows i'm lying", "you lie. why do you lie?") and she needs to know the truth. she needs this closure.

so, she stands up. no longer are they eye-to-eye. el has the high ground and the receipts to back up her statements. "why do you lie?"

EL: You can't even write it, Mike. [Increasingly upset:] "From Mike. "From Mike." "From Mike." "From Mike." "From." MIKE: Okay, okay! Eleven, you're being ridiculous. What, like… What is this?

again, he can't say it. not even in a cheap, cop-out kind of halfway kind of way. they're talking about romantic love, romantic feelings for someone else, and mike can't even touch that topic with a ten foot pole.

nope. instead, he says:

MIKE: You know what I think of you. You're the most incredible person in the world.

which isn't inherently romantic. at all. anyone can be incredible, friends or girlfriends alike. you know what i think of you, the kind of person that i believe you to be—not what i feel for you or the true nature of my feelings, which is what you're begging me to tell you.

eleven isn't asking him if he cares for her. she's asking him if he loves her romantically and mike still cannot say that he does.

she's asking him what he feels for her and he won't tell her.

why? because, as a certain will the wise once said, "sometimes i think it's just scary to open up like that, to say how you really feel, especially to the people you care about the most, because what if they don't like the truth?"

does that not perfectly describe mike's plight here?

he can't answer eleven's question, because he knows she won't like the answer. and if she knows that he doesn't love her the way she wants to be loved, then he worries they won't even be able to be friends anymore. because if she doesn't need him, and she doesn't want him, then how could he ever expect a literal superhero to keep him around for anything else? when he shares that he feels inferior to her and thinks he's just some loser?

he does care for her! and he likely does love her, but not the way that she's asking him to, and that's too scary of a thing to admit. it'd be better for them all if he were to rip the band-aid off, but that's scary, and hard, and painful, so he doesn't. he keeps it on. he tries to placate them both. he deflects. he tells her he cares for her, that she's incredible, a superhero—anything to get her to Not Talk About It, Think About It, Or Look At This Glaring Problem They're In.

now, i'd like to focus on the language used.

MIKE: And you can't let these mouth breathers ruin you. Ruin us. I mean, they're nobodies. And you're a superhero. EL: Not anymore.

mike and eleven have had cute, touching moments before. they could've picked any one of them for mike's "i love you" speech, but instead... they chose the moment they first met.

we already knew that mike was clinging to what their relationship once was and that he still saw her as that girl that once needed him, or at least wanted her to still need him like that, but this was the first clue: "mouth breathers."

it's such a juvenile thing to say in such a serious conversation. it encapsulates the entire fucking issue. mike is hiding behind the past, trying desperately to steer them back to that, because it's safe and comfortable and easy. but they're not those kids anymore.

el is more than just the girl that swooped in and used her powers to save his life, flip a van, and make a mouth breather pee his pants. she wants him to see her as more than that—she knows what he thinks of her, she wants to know if he feels more for her than just that hero idealization and platonic care.

and mike just can't tell her.

not then, when she's crying and pleading with him to.

not later, when she's in someone else's mind, unable to respond or be present in this moment she's been waiting for for ages, and he's prompted to by her brother to say all of the wrong things:

that he wasn't scared of her (he was, and he apologized for it),

that he's scared she won't need him anymore (she doesn't want to need anyone, she's tired of men telling her she "needs" them when she doesn't),

that he thought if he said "i love you" it would make the day she realized she didn't need him anymore hurt more (he can consider his own feelings, but not hers and how his words and lack of them have hurt her?)

"i don't know how to live without you" (a scary statement, since we shouldn't need to depend on anyone to live, el knows that better than anyone)

"and i knew right then and there, in that moment, that i loved you, and i've loved you every day since" (she heard them talk about sending her to the asylum and handing her off to his mom, they also were not in love when they were first getting to know each other as she didn't even know what a friend was)

"i love you on your bad days" (one word: rink-o-mania),

"i love you with your powers—" (yes, we know that),

"—without your powers" (is that why you could only say this once she got her powers back? if so, why do you always talk about her powers and her being a superhero when talking about love?)

"i love you for exactly who you are" ("you think i'm a monster too. [..] the way you looked at me." + el saying she went to project nina to find out who she was, proving that she didn't know this prior and if she doesn't know who she is then mike certainly doesn't either)

"you're my superhero" (el's "not anymore.")

all in all, el comes away from that with nothing new. he hasn't told her anything he didn't say the first time. if anything, he's doubled down and proven to her that he wasn't actually listening, and that he's certainly not her heart.

fascinating how mike and eleven's season four journey starts with a lie, mike hiding, el telling him he doesn't love her anymore, mike asking her who said that he didn't, and then him saying in fifty different ways just how much he doesn't. not like that. not like she wants him to, as the cast themselves have told us, too.

really, really fascinating.

#mike blasting holes in his own ship while will is trying desperately to plug them all not even realizing tht el already jumped overboard #or how mike is trying to sail his and will's ship all on his own. fascinating interesting peculiar really makes u think !#mine #milkvan analysis #milkvan

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tal-vez-o-quizas · 1 year

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I was checking this video on YouTube about Finn titled:

Millie didn't actually call Finn that, but guess what?

People are seeing the light with Milkvan; look at this:

"Why did this show focus so much on these kids making out?"

Oh, I don't know, maybe to parallel them to St*ncy, who also had big making out scenes that ultimately led to their breakup?

"... now I'm 18 thinking it's a bit odd. But as a kid I thought it was goals".

Would you look at that!

That's exactly how most people feel with Milkvan after ST4 as well: tired of their antics and admitting that they are not a match anymore.

Slowly but surely, people is seeing the light.

#from youtube #finn #anti milkvan #milkvan #pro byler #byler tumblr #st video #st youtube #st cast #milkvan analysis #st*ncy/milkvan parallels #st parallels #ga reaction #ga reaction to milkvan #my post #byler #mine #my analysis

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sandinmybed · 1 year

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Passive vs Active Mike analysis: El is going to have to be the one who dumps Mike.

I’ve been having a discussion with some twitter mutuals and we’ve drawn this conclusion, I thought i’d share it with you guys

Mike is very passive in their relationship. In s1, he calls El pretty and kisses her, but that’s the only times he advances their relationship intentionally himself. In s3 they spend a lot of time kissing, but think about that awkward makeout scene - Mike pulls away to sing at her. Mike keeps pulling her hands down away from his face. When they ditch the Party at weathertop, El is the one who says they have to go home. Later in s3, El is the one who dumps him, and he’s pissed off, but he just takes it. He shows no clear desire to get her to take him back (unlike Lucas, who’s pretty concerned with getting the olive branch from Max.) And then the contrast to his fight with Will that we’re all so familiar with - Mike fights with El, gets dumped, he takes it. Mike fights with Will, Will runs off, Mike actively chases after him through pouring rain to apologise and beg him for forgiveness.

In the S3 end scene where El comes up and kisses him, he just stands there. They don’t talk about getting back together. Mike doesn’t visibly reciprocate in any way, doesn’t even smile. He is passive, he just sort of lets it happen. He even sort of blocks her from kissing him when they’re all hugging as the Byers leave. When Will comes up to him to dump his DnD books, Mike is active, he asks the question to confirm their standing with one another - "What if you wanna join another party?" - and is happy with Will's response.

Another example of Mike's passivity in their relationship is the way Mike takes very little responsibility for their problems. For example, treating El “like garbage/like a pet” in her words, during their relationship in s3. When he lies to her and tries to apologise, he has no idea what he's doing and lets Lucas lead him. The few efforts he does make towards getting her back are supported heavily by Lucas, in fact. When she dumps him at the mall, he's like okay, whatever, no girlfriend then. But when he’s a dick to Will? Instant regret as soon as he realises he's gone too far, he doesn't wait around trying to analyse the situation, he's right out the door and he goes full on grovelling hands-and-knees begging to apologise.

In S4 the same thing happens - he pisses off El, can’t say her loves her, but instead of accepting that responsibility, he denies it and says he does say it (clear lie) and that El’s being ridiculous. When he pisses off Will, he’s straight in there to take responsibility for ignoring Will, he says Will didn’t deserve the bad treatment (and honestly, Will’s not even fully innocent either if you wanna get into that lol). He even apologises going back months and months. He’s passive with El, allowing her to yell at him and makes no real effort to defend himself or fix it. With Will, he’s active - he makes the move to apologise and reconnect.

Excluding their kiss in s1, every time Mike takes initiative and is active in their relationship, it’s never a romantic action. When he’s giving her shelter and food, when he’s calling her every day trying to find her (after she vanished in front of him) and when he and the Byers go on the road trip to find her, none of that is inherently romantic. The one time he says he loves her, she isn't even present, but Mike is desperate not to lose her/for El not to get hurt by their plan. Mike is active when it comes to protecting her.

The one active step he does take in their relationship is the monologue, but is that actually active? He's pretty much constantly being told by other people that being with El is the "right" thing to do - Nancy in s1/2 assumes he's into her, Lucas in s3 tries to help fix their relationship, just like Will in s4. Mike has been led to believe by Will that this will save their relationship, and he has an immense amount of trust in Will, so he follows what he thinks is right and tells her he loves her, because he's afraid she will literally die if he doesn't.

This is why I think El is going to have to be the one who officially dumps him. Mike never takes the initiative in their relationship. He didn't want to talk to her about getting back together in s3, and he didn't want to acknowledge their issues in s4 either. I've seen plenty of people (myself included) who believe that during the scene in Surfer Boy Pizza, El was going to officially break up with him. They got interrupted, and then it was too late.

But starting with s5, we've got the painting lie, and we've got Hopper back, and Mike is back on good terms with Will. El isn't talking to him, and they're dealing with the apocalypse, and it's strongly implied that El knows he was lying to her. I think El's going to dump him in s5, and he's going to ask about the painting, which she knows nothing about. I think that's going to happen fairly early on in the season, maybe even before the time skip, and be the catalyst for a lot of changes (and hopefully some more personal growth for both of them!) But Mike will not take that step himself.

#i was meant to be writing my dissertation lol #mike wheeler analysis #mileven analysis #anti mlvn #milkvan analysis #anti milkvan #eleven #stranger things analysis #stranger things theory #st5 theory #byler #< target audience #mike wheeler is gay

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hessolivagant · 1 year

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Random thoughts that prove mike wheeler is probably gay and that el doesn’t need him + love triangle imagery

I’m gonna admit it, i am very much a mike wheeler defender but i will slander him this once, he’s being shitty like any teenager would that would be going through trauma. But the thing about mike is that he’s a character and when characters hit low points usually they have internal conflict which leads to further character development.

Mikes internal conflict is his internalized homophobia, that’s what changed his character in s3. He realized something in s2 and in s3 he used el to seem like he’s not gay. He pushed everyone away stated by will in the rain fight. He was so focused on being something he was not because he internally feared his feelings for will. We see him realize these feelings at the end of s3 and to why he was so conflicted during the kiss scene. This relationship between el and mike is called a “beard” a beard is when a queer person uses someone of the opposite sex to appeal straight. That is EXACTLY what m*leven is. El loves mike(probably) but mike does not love eleven. We see this with nancy in s1-2, she can’t say i love you to steve because she simply doesn’t love him. It’s as simple as that. Stancy and milkvan are paralleled to eachother, and many platonic relationships or failed relationships are paralleled with m*lkvan.

I don’t like mileven as i think it’s unhealthy, it makes me sad to see them like that. And seeing how much better they do without each other is better. Milkvan being endgame would make mike the shittiest character written(sorry not sorry) and elevens whole thing with max, and learning about herself and to be independent was a useless arc. And I don’t like the whole idealization mike has for el, el seems to dislike it when she’s compared to a superhero. I don’t know how mike, gaslighting, shifting blame onto el while she’s sobbing is healthy. Even mike said “it’s a fight that you can’t come back from”

In the pizza place, I’m sure mike and el were going to have a mutual breakup before getting interrupted by argyle. After that during the scene where mike is trying to save el, he feels pressured to say i love you to el. I don’t know why someone would struggle to say that especially when they’re in a life or death situation, clearly el doesn’t believe his bs, the vines got tighter around her neck showing weakness, there’s also lighting in the background. It’s when she looks at max, that’s when she gets the power to fight. Not mikes cringe ass speech.

Overall the scene was just sad, I didn’t see anything romantic in that scene, I honestly saw more Byler potential within a “m*leven” scene. It was just sad. Also when mike said i love you, will was in the back. This may mean something. Maybe that will was in the back of his head when he said that. A lot of his speech had will in the back, usually in heart to hearts or confessions, it’s only the two, only their faces. Focused on them and only them. Which this could be love triangle imagery, which is seen a lot in s4 with will, el and mike. Like when el and mike reunited, will is in the middle of them. Also both will snd mike and the same body language with el, which shows that mike and el are platonic:)

Rahh I’m done ranting, bye <3

#byler #byler analysis #byler brainrot #mike wheeler is queer #mike wheeler #mike wheeler is gay #byler tumblr #milkvan slander #milkvan analysis #byler endgame #mike wheeler analysis

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gayofthefae · 8 months

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Thinking of El and Mike and this feeling I got on my rewatch watching El skate away from Mike through the crowd crying of "I don't want you to comfort me right now, you don't even love me" and how her lying was very much to create Mike's visit as an escape, an escape the problems they were having broke once they came up - that she tried to deny when she saw "From" on the flowers but couldn't anymore once the ruse was up anyways.

And how Mike has always been her escape. Literally and figuratively. She escaped from the lab to him in season 1. She escaped from Hopper's cabin to him in season 2, but again, when she was disappointed by seeing him with Max not granting that expected reprieve, she left, understandably. At the Snow Ball, she escaped into one night of normalcy with Mike. Then Mike was her emotional escape because she couldn't leave her house to much but she could bring him to her - a figurative escape, bringing the world to her because she couldn't go out in it, in a sense.

But then she found more of that from Max as well. She found both physical and emotional escape at the mall. She found escape from Mike, something new to try: freedom from "stupid boys" that she hadn't had without losing her attachment to normalcy and peace. Then she could be more content with both because being able to be attached to more people also meant that it lived in her the most, not dependent on them.

Within the stress, she could go to both of them. Her and Mike's light relationship troubles - "silly fights; stupid fights" as he put it - still felt secure and so they offered a different point of focus in the stress. For instance, in the store scene ("blank makes you crazy"). Then Hopper was gone. Her dependent figure. So that was back to Mike. And she was moving away from Max, who was also becoming more depressed and likely less consistent than Mike's daily communication. So it all fell more on Mike.

And Mike was the one visiting, so she almost prepared this one-week escape for herself. She would tell these lies that everything was okay and they would live in a world for just a week where everything was okay. And as it came, of course, little things arose that she hadn't prepared for. Like how the card on the flowers said "From". Or how she would have to avoid her brother because knew too much about her lies and so to maintain them she had to distance herself after he called her out too much at the airport.

So when it all came crashing down, there was no use for any part of it anymore. If the illusion is broken, it's broken. Everyone hates her. And her boyfriend can't tell her he loves her; he can't even write it. And she's tired of lying to him that she doesn't know too. She's just emotionally exhausted - too emotionally exhausted to let "care" slide this time.

So this time she escapes into being a superhero again. That feeling. That high. Because she can't be normal and she can't seem to be loved. Not how she wants to be, at least. She thought she had nothing left, but she could become a superhero again.

Then she escaped NINA. She escaped the government. And she did it herself, albeit with a getaway van. And she just escaped. She didn't escape to anyone or anything, in a way. She was going somewhere, but once she took that helicopter down, she had escaped.

She was free. And independent. And she was going to free Max too. But she didn't. Not quite. Not in time. She saved her. But she didn't free her. She escaped. She saved Max. But she didn't free her.

She failed on her own. When it mattered most. And Hopper came back. And Mike was there and loved her. They're dependable. But that doesn't mean she has to be dependent on them.

I'm hopeful to see her journey, but I do still think there are steps to it because she got there and stepped back with her failure, to interdependence. She can do things on her own. But she doesn't have to. And she can balance those. Carrying all the weight is bound to crush you. You do that too long, you'll tire and you will fail. They don't need to hold her up. But she can let them support her.

#elmike analysis #el hopper analysis #stranger things #milkvan analysis #character analysis #motives

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byler-alarmist · 3 months

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You're gonna sit there and tell me that Mike had feelings for El, yet when El was crying for reassurance that Mike loved her--

He couldn't have gotten the fck up and went over to comfort her??

Like this????

This is where the "he couldn't say ily because he was afraid If he said it-" yadda, yadda, yadda, falls apart.

Even if he couldn't say the words aloud, we have seen that he is able to show his affection and love through physical touch.

(Which did wonders for Will feeling cared for and supported, btw)

Also, even if he couldn't say the words "I love you", he could have spoken softly to her, gently reassuring her of how she was special to him.

Like tbis???

Singling her out from the rest and assuring her his feelings haven't changed and home isn't home without her??

There are so many ways that conversation could've gone to make E feel loved, even if he couldn't say it. We know Mike is capable of showing it.

But he did not use his love language with El. He wouldn't even go near her to hold hands or even put an arm around her, nor did he try to say he missed her or that they were a team.

TL;DR: Mike Wheeler, I know what you are.

#anti midleven #anti milkvan #milkvan is bones #byler endgame #mike wheeler i know what you are #byler evidence #mike wheeler analysis #st4 rewatch #mike wheeler is in love with will byers #byler is endgame #byler

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ven0moir · 11 months

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Mike is deliberately queercoded

So was nobody going to tell me that there is a Freddy Krueger movie filled with gay subtext that the Duffers very clearly and obviously referenced to queercode both Mike and Will since S1?

The main character is Jessie, a suburban teenager that finds himself haunted by Freddy Krueger, who wishes to possess him and go on a killing spree. Now this reminds me of Will initially, but Jessie has way more similarities with Mike than Will.

For example, Jessie's father 100% inspired Ted Wheeler, in fact he's a straight up rip off.

And this is Holly.

Look at how the screenwriters discuss this, including Robert freaking Englund himself (who plays Freddy Krueger and Victor Creel)

The screenwriters specifically talk about how one of the things the production designer (who was gay) did to add gay subtext was a sign on Jessie's bedroom door that said 'NO out of town CHICKS ALLOWED'

The Duffers know this, I'm sure.

So this ....

This freaking ONE WAY sign pointing into Mike's closet? Deliberate, legitimate gay subtext.

#byler evidence #byler theory #byler analysis #byler proof #anti milkvan #byler endgame #byler nation #byler #will byers #mike wheeler

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pinkeoni · 11 months

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“And yet, you still have a C in Spanish”

The meaning behind this is so obvious I’m kicking myself for not noticing it sooner.

Dustin and Mike are in a friendly battle of “My girlfriend is better than your girlfriend” brought on by Dustin, who wants to brag about his amazing girlfriend.

Mike’s rebuttal is “Well, El is a superhero.”

And yet—

—or what Dustin is really saying, maybe without meaning to, is “You’re girlfriend is a superhero, and yet it’s not enough.”

Sure. C’s are fine. It’ll pass the class. “C’s get degrees” as they say. But it’s not an A.

This is the show telling us through Dustin, in big red letters, that Mike’s relationship with El is not adequate.

It’s funny that both of the classes being discussed here are language classes. The class that Suzie changed the grade for was Latin.

Dustin talks to his devout Mormon girlfriend, is honest about his grade, and she’s willing to cheat for him. As a result, he gets an A in language.

What’s also funny is the fact that the Duzie moment takes place right after we see Mike reading El’s letter. You know, the one full of lies. You know, the ones that Mike has been responding to with “From, Mike.”

As such, Mike get’s a C in language.

#byler #anti mileven #anti milkvan #duzie #stranger things #stranger things analysis #mike wheeler #dustin henderson #suzie bingham

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paladintoyourcleric · 8 months

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"But Mileven had been built up for 4 seasons"

What tf do you mean built up, they kissed a week after they met.

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0daylighthours0 · 28 days

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Just started ST s4 with my Mama, we're halfway through episode 3, and gosh are her opinions noteworthy.

Firstly, she has been very pissed at Mike and the way he's been treating El. Y'know that scene at the dinner table, the one where Joyce or someone was asking about what happened at Rink O' Mania, and Mike makes a comment over how the girl El schmacked with a skate "didn't look fine" - single handedly escalating the ready sensitive situation? My mother, quote:

"Oh- shut up you! Y'know if [insert my father's name here] did that I'd smack him."

"You'd dump his ass?"

"I'd dump his ass."

I've now asked for her thoughts on milkvan's relationship (she's oblivious to my ulterior motives) and she told me that it doesn't seem as if Mike loves El anymore, that he isn't treating her like he does.

She also reads the way Mike is acting towards Will as very strange. She can't fathom a reason as to why they'd seemed so close previously, yet now have Mike pushing Will away and being distant. Why he's treating him strangely.

"It's very weird."

This is made all the more prevalent as we're watching these seasons back to back, the difference in Mike's behaviour being night and day.

Now listen up listen up. My mother, is NOT a fan of queer things. She'll try and evade this being a possibility for any movie or show character until the fact of their gayness is outright confirmed. This is why, at this second, Mike is very confusing to her. I don't even think she's put two and two together about Will's sexuality yet. But man when I tell you she is catching on. Like she doesn't know what's up with Mike, but her only ways for describing his act have been synonyms to the word 'weird'.

Can you just imagine if we didn't have a closeted explanation for this guy? What even would his character excuse be???

Man I can not wait to get to those undeniable byler moments. If she, my mother, think that Mike seems gay? then, guys, he is gay.

#stranger things #stranger things 4 #byler #byeler #anti milkvan #anti mileven #stranger things byler #byler is endgame #byler is real #byler is canon #byler proof #byler rights #byler analysis #byler endgame #byler tumblr #byler nation #mike wheeler #will byers #mike wheeler is gay

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lordystrange · 1 year

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Let’s break down good and bad arguments for Midleven

Let’s start with the bad ones

1. They are in love so they’re not gonna break up

There is literally no proof of them being in love. Loving each other platonically? Yes. But romantically no. (Also, even couples who are in love sometimes have to break up if they’re incompatible)

2. They won’t break up a straight couple for a gay one

Well, first time for everything.

3. Milkvan is the main ship! People who have been shipping them since season 1 would get so mad.

First, it’s not the main ship, at least not anymore. Lately Netflix has promoted Lumax and Jopper. Second, there are also bylers who have shipped their ship since season 1. Third, most of the GA would get mad if s5 continues forcefeeding us a ”main ship” that has no chemistry.

4. Mike is straight and in love with Eleven.

Couldn’t he also be bi and in love with El? Well, he could, but if he was confirmed bi, everyone would see who he’s actually in love with (Will).

5. El would be sad if Mike left her for Will

Mike isn’t leaving her for Will. They are gonna break up and then he’s gonna pursue a relationship with Will. Also, wouldn’t Will be sad if Mike just no-homoed him?

6. It would be misogynistic and ableist if they didn’t make Eleven end up with Mike.

It would be misogynistic and ableist to force her to stay in a relationship where she’s not happy in, just for her to become a normal american girl who gets married at 18 and makes babies for her husband without whom she couldn’t live.

7. They wouldn’t leave the main character end up single in the last season.

I know, that’s why Will will get to be with Mike. (Hahaha also yes they would, because they are showing us that it’s better to be single than stay in an unhappy relationship)

8. Mike is in love with El and him saying it 9 times in the monologue is the proof!

So we’re just supposed to ignore their fight about it earlier, where Mike called El ridiculous? And all the lies in the monologue? And how El didn’t actually like what she heard? And the fact that even if Mike was in love with El, it doesn’t mean that El is in love with Mike.

9. Mike and El were in good terms in the end of s4.

No they weren’t watch the show

10. There wouldn’t be enough time for byler to develop in s5 so milkman endgame.

All byler needs now is a few longing glances from Mike, the painting discussion, love confessions and kiss. If they were to make Milkvan a functioning couple, they would need at least 3 more seasons.

And now, for the actually good arguments for midleven:

Oh right there is none my bad.

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love-byers · 2 years

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it’s been a year, mike. (MAJOR BYLER REVELATION INCOMING---MUST READ)

mike and will constantly saying "a year" or "all year" when talking about the time since the move when it's only been six months keeps me up at night

i saw people talking about how they say a year when it was only 6 months because they’re idiots in love and are being dramatic. as cute as that is, i didn’t really buy it until RIGHT NOW. i just saw it as a cute headcanon, but now i see that the writers could be enabling you to make this realization by use of subtext.

allow me to explain

^ these are the three times they say it

at first i thought the writers may have just used year because that’s less confusing for the audience because 1 year time jumps have been used before in stranger things and are super popular in books/movies/tv shows. BUT, it clicked for me that that doesn’t make sense. the timeline in stranger things has always been acknowledged. throughout s1 we hear the amount of time will has been missing several times (as far as i remember). in s2, mike counted the days el had been gone. he called her every night for 353 days. when el and hopper argue in s2, el uses specific numbers to tell us how long she’s really been with him. in s3 hopper specifically says ‘6 long months’ when talking about how long he’s been dealing with mike (lol). that's the same amount of time between s3 & s4, yet mike and will don't say 6 months, they say year. there’s a date at the start of every season. and in s4, el says this in her letter to mike.

185 days = 6 months (almost on the dot)

the writers have specifically told us how long it’s been since they moved, down to the amount of days. and it’s 6 months, not a year. this makes it very hard for me to write off mike and will saying ‘year’ as just the writers slipping up. also in el’s letter, she says this:

this is INSANE.

mike and will are saying the wrong amount of time. the writers aren’t stupid, they know how much time has passed since season 3. THEY WROTE IT. i’m a writer as well, and i know how much time is passing between what im writing because I CREATED IT. IT CAME FROM MY BRAIN. and like i said, the stranger things writers have proven to be very keen on dates and time. all of this happening in the same season is not a slip up, its on purpose. stranger things 4 had a 30 million dollar budget PER EPISODE. do the math--that’s 270 MILLION DOLLARS. and yes, i know they supposedly forgot will’s birthday, but that’s different. his birthday is a date that was mentioned one time and served no purpose aside from creating emotional tension in that one scene. none of their birthdays are important to the plot, hell, will’s is the only one mentioned in the show and it wasn’t even on his birthday. one date that was mentioned one time and never brought up again is NOT the same as continuous attention given to timelines/time jumps over the course of all four seasons. and some fans theorize that they’re lying about forgetting his birthday anyway. either way, its not the same.

so....the writers want us to know that emotions can make time speed up or slow down....and that el’s week has felt very fast because of her emotions....and then show us mike and will SPECIFICALLY deviating from the timeline established in the SECOND LINE OF EPISODE ONE “yeah, but you knew she was having problems for months and didn’t tell me.” “its been six months, mike.”, or “it’s been months, mike.” or not even including that line at all, or “the past couple months have been weird” would’ve worked and stayed in check with the timeline we’ve already established. but when writing those scenes, they chose to say year. which is flat out wrong and way off from the actual time they’ve been apart.

and what did el say makes time speed up or slow down? emotions? oh, okay got it

the first two times mike and will say it’s been a year are in the same scene: the rink o mania fight. emotions are high. they’re in a pretty serious fight. its not about something dumb, it’s about their ten year friendship and how they’ve grown apart. their friendship is VERY important to both of them. (remember when mike said asking will to be his friend is the best thing he’s ever done?) the third time it’s said is when mike is opening up to will in episode 4. it’s a very emotional scene. mike is being honest and vulnerable with his feelings. in this conversation he apologizes and admits that will didn’t deserve how mike had been treating him, which mike never does to anyone else. he admits his relationship with will is different and home isn’t the same without him, and that he feels like he lost will and wants to be best friends again.

and the obvious: emotions making time speed up or slow down doesn’t just apply to in the heat of the moment occasions. (in theory) mike and will are in love. the six months they’ve been separated felt like a year to them because of their emotions, just like el said in the letter. and mind you, will is canonically in love with mike, yet they’re both acting the same way about this. it’s not just will. it makes sense for six months to feel like a year to will because of his emotions, because he is in love with mike, right? well, mike feels the exact same way. this isnt even about the characters as people. narratively speaking, mike and will both doing this doesn’t make sense if it’s unrequited. one way writers show how characters aren’t on the same page about something, a relationship for instance, is whether they’re on the same emotional page about different plot points. something major and emotional happens to all the characters---now we watch how they react to it. and i don’t mean small disagreements & such, characters are allowed to feel differently about things. i mainly mean when whatever happened is painful and important to one or more of the characters. for example, steve and nancy. steve and nancy didn’t feel the same about barb, barb’s parents, and everything that happened in general. steve wanted to keep on like nothing happened while nancy was literally eaten up with grief, guilt, and trauma. jonathan was the one who was on the same page as her and made her feel better about carrying that baggage around all the time. they understood each other. and who was nancy in love with? jonathan. narratively, that makes perfect sense and even further sways the audience into understanding they’re in love.

so...what? the emotions that made mike and will’s six months apart feel like a year to them is....friendship? not a fucking chance. mike and el are a couple, and according to mileven fans, they’re the main couple of the show who are in love and are going to be an endgame couple. why save this incredibly romantic coded trope for will and mike, the best platonic bros? idk, you tell me. and the fact that the line about emotions came from someone in the love triangle?? and it was said to someone else in the love triangle?? not a coincidence.

edit: someone reblogged and pointed out how el said 185 in her letter to mike that we SEE him reading. there is no reason for him not to know how long it's been. so either he isn't paying attention to a damn thing el says in her letters or he is just extremely in love with will

another edit: i keep seeing reblogs of people saying they're probably referring to the time since mike and el started dating, which i used to think too. but the context when mike and will say a year makes it hard for me to believe.

"but you knew she was having trouble for like a year and you didn't tell me"

here mike is specifically talking about el's bullying problem which has only been going on since the byers have been gone and she enrolled in school. what he's talking about is something very strictly related to the time since they moved, and it's been six months, not a year.

"you called maybe a couple times. it's been a year, mike. meanwhile el has like a book of letters from you."

will is again, very specifically talking about something that strictly happened between the time since the byers left and the start of s4. he's saying how crazy it is that it's been a whole year and mike has barely called. but it hasn't been a year, it's only been six months.

"the last year has been weird, you know? and you know, max and lucas and dustin, they're great, they're great, it's just..it's hawkins it's not the same without you. and i feel like maybe i was worrying too much about el...i don't know maybe i feel like i lost you or something."

this one i will cut some slack, i think he could be talking about literally the last year, as in since the beginning of 1985. but immediately after he starts saying how home hasn't been the same without will (and separates his relationship with will as being different than his relationship with max dustin and lucas and even el), something specific to the time since they byers have been gone, six months, not a year:

in conclusion: mike and will referring to their time apart as a year when it’s only been six months is not a mishap on the writer’s part. they go out of their way to make sure you know exactly how much time has passed, down to the number of days, and they put this much attention on time in every season. and in the same season mike and will do this, there is a line in the SECOND LINE OF THE OPENING SCENE OF THE SEASON about emotions making time go by faster or slower.

byler is going to be a s5 surprise, but its not coming out of nowhere. there’s piles of subtext in every single season---enough that when you look back, it all makes sense. small details like this aren’t outlandish because this is without a doubt the length writers will go to keep something hidden, and in byler’s case and many other tv show plots case, to keep something a surprise. and for christ’s sake, WATCH THE SHOW! the amount of attention to even the TINIEST details in stranger things is insane. they put so much thought into everything---not just ships, and not just byler. idk how many times the writers are going to have to say details matter and that there are no coincidences until people believe them.

anyways, byler is endgame. thanks for reading :)

#another day of proving byler endgame done #all in a day's work #they are in love and they are dramatic #byler #will byers #mike wheeler #byler s4 #byler s5 #byler endgame #byler is endgame #byler is canon #mileven is bones #milkvan is bones #stranger things #byler analysis #stranger things analysis #stranger things 4

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tal-vez-o-quizas · 11 months

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Responding to this post by @wakeupthemembersofbylernation:

In Vol 2, Mike expressed that he felt like a looser. He also felt useless and insecure in himself as a person and in the relationship cause El is this super-powered girl and he’s just “a nerd”, as well as fearing that she didn't love him any more, but he put more emphasis on being needed by her cause she's literally becoming her own person. Hence the “What if she doesn’t need me anymore?” which I believe is not meant to be taken in the romantic sense only but also in the “caregiver” sense. If she grows as a person, she won't need Mike anymore. She won’t need for him to show her the ropes. If she knows she can continue relying on other people, she won't need him anymore. Mike himself says it when he gets to the "She's special, she was born special… Maybe I was the first to realize that” makes me think that he was THE first one to realize she had powers after she ran away, he gave her shelter, took care of her and was the first one to have a deep connection with El. We never hear how Mike thinks El is special besides the fact that she has powers. Only for that reason.

But now that you are wondering if Will’s words in the van were actually describing El’s feelings, I’m just thinking… Has El ever felt insecure and like a looser because of her relationship with Mike? I don’t think so. El felt insecure and discouraged cause she didn’t have her powers anymore, not because Mike is this super amazing boyfriend (I don't think he's terrible, haha). She knows how much people rely on her powers, and I’m sure said powers make her feel useful and make her feel as if people only consider her to be useful because of them. Those powers are also part of her identity. El lost her powers after the Starcourt battle, so she wanted Mike to think that she was handling that in a good way, that she didn’t care and that she was thriving as a person who is friends with the popular crowd, has an active social life and as is adjusting perfectly to her new surroundings. But why did El thought her being part of the popular crowd will assure Mike she’s doing great when he’s “a nerd”? Maybe because she saw how that worked for Angela, and how she's popular with a boyfriend and with lots of friends, which are all signs of how society sees being "successful" in life is...

I see both Mike and El feeling useless but not for the same reasons. I mean, they are both focusing on El’s powers though, but the reasons why are very different. Does that makes sense?

Although, El did say that she was different to Mike, and that she felt like a monster, as well as how Mike looked at her as such when they were at Rink-O-Mania.

So, in that sense, Will's words in the van could apply to her? At least the “being different” part. But the “feeling like a mistake” part does not correlate with El’s feelings at all, as well as the part of Mike making her feel like she’s not a mistake and what goes on after that. It does not make sense with the things we’ve seen and how El behaves.

So, I would say Will's words partly apply to El, but not completely.

At the end of the day, Mike told El that he “loves” her after being encouraged by Will, and he obviously used Will’s words as inspo for the monologue he delivered to El, and that “encouraged” El to push Vecna away from Max.

I'm saying all this cause El already expressed her feelings to Mike on how she felt different and like a monster (mostly because she thought she murdered all those children back in Hawkin's lab), followed by who Mike never says that he loved her. She never expressed how Mike's love makes her feel like she's not a mistake or anything though. Those are Will's words entirely. If you compare this to how Mike feels insecure and that being the reason why he apparently never said that he loved her, it doesn't make a lot of sense, cause El never seemed to not express herself to Mike cause she feels "insecure". If anything, El has become very vocal and outspoken.

Lastly, even if El is still in love with Mike, she’s allowed to feel mad with the person she loves and is allowed to feel betrayed or mad or lied to, which correlates with the way most Bylers have theorized on why she looks displeased with Mike and everything at the end of Vol 2.

So, lots of possibilities in here.

You have brought a good point @wakeupthemembersofbylernation; thank you. All your thoughts after The Piggyback script was released are very valid and objective.

I hope you liked this unprompted analysis that nobody asked for, lol. People! Feel free to add and comment, of course.

#scriptgate #the piggyback script #st scripts #st4 analysis #anti milkvan #byler #byler hope?#st4 vol 2 #st4 #milkvan analysis #my post #tal-vez-o-quizas #mike wheeler i know what you are

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