hi i would like to clarify that i am deeply uninterested in engaging with discourse drama about internet man dream, beyond what i say in this post. please stop sending me anonymous asks about it, thanks

I am going FERAL over this imagine:

So basically Bruce brings reader home to be his new daughter/the boys' new sibling but Uh Oh! They now want you carnally and reader is just like "you said you wanted me as a daughter/sibling, wtf is this" and being their platonic darling is better than being shared between them romantically so reader tries to come off as innocent and child/sibling coded by being like "yeah I've never actually kissed or dated anyone before aren't I just so innocent" and the boys are like :)))

So then Dick says you can call him your boyfriend "just to feel it out" and Tim starts blatantly stealing your panties and Jason says he can give you your 1st kiss so you can "practice" with him and Bruce offers to teach you how to touch yourself and (and him) and when you try to walk it back cause the boys are being Freaks they're in their delulu era so eventually you end up tied to the bed with the boys and Bruce drawing straws over who gets to take what 1sts (like 1st date, kiss, virginity, ect).

And Damien is just in the background absolutely SEETHING cause the the boys and Bruce's Horny Time keeps interrupting his Mommy Time with the reader

And reader using Damien as kind of a shield cause what are they going to do, feel you up in front of a CHILD? Like just, "Stay Platonic :))"

Just that kind of pseudo incest makes me Feel Things (*/∀＼*)(///∇///)

I'd love your thoughts/a fic based on this! Ty ❤️

TW: Brief mentions of pseudo incest(y) scenarios/behavior, manipulative tactics, yandere tendencies

(Okay so I’ll answer this with my thoughts for right now.)

I know I primarily write incest(y) related topics for my Game of Thrones/ASOIAF stuff but I have been tempted to/curious about branching it out into some of the other fandoms I write for 👀. (I’ve had a few ideas rolling around in my noggin for a bit if anyone is interested.) So I would be willing to give this a try. I’m down to experiment with some new stuff, within reason of course.

I imagine the Reader being older (probably 19-23), maybe even having been a runaway of sorts or not having a very stable home life, so when they’re given the ‘offer’ to become part of the family they’re looking to fulfill a familial void they’ve never experienced or have forgotten how it’s felt like. I definitely see Bruce and the rest of the boys keeping a very close eye on the Reader before they decide to finally bring them into their family, basically full on stalking them from the moment they caught their attention (you know how the Batfam works). It wouldn’t be a surprise if even before the Reader was with them physically that the boys developed a more carnal desire for them. At first, their intentions were completely platonic, but with all the lengthy observing and information gathering of their supposed-to-be-new-family-member eventually something changed in how they all saw their darling.

I really see the change in their obsession starting with either Dick or Tim first. Especially regarding some accidental or purposeful peeping Tom foolery. I feel like Bruce would be the last to fall victim to the change in direction or at the very least he’s the last one to admit to it. If Damian is younger than I see his obsession staying strictly platonic, but if he were much older than I could see him involving himself to the same depths as his family.

At first, I see things happening subtly. Knowing that at the very least a few of them are already in an obsessive-romantic headspace in regards to their darling before they even physically become part of the family the guys would try to be as welcoming as possible without revealing their true intentions. They don’t want to scare you off right away, they want you to walk into it semi-willingly at least. But the interactions with the Reader would show something else. The lingering touches, the being much closer to you than really necessary, the heated grazes over your clothes here and there that leave you wondering if that actually happened or not. I also kind of like the other members not being fully aware of each other’s change in obsession, everyone giving each other the side eye until it sets in and then all out war of who gets the darling to themself unfolds only to eventually end up with them working together and agreeing to share. That’s when Bruce’s heel-turn is revealed.

Once things get truly amped up, the interactions with the Reader really begin to escalate. The boys would walk around shirtless more often, all of them trying to get their darling to look at them, to really look at them. Eventually, it’s not just them being shitless but either them in nothing but their underwear or nothing at all. They start out as accidents but eventually it’s pretty loud and clear that the guys want you to see them, all of them, to even touch them and feel them to your hearts content. But thats not all, of course it’s not. The touching of their darling only gets all the more intense, to the point that you know damn well that they’re touching you and they want to leave you wanting for more. So much more. The Reader’s innocence and lack of experience would only spur them on even more. They absolutely thrive off of it. They all want to be your first, your first everything. There will be a lot of secret ‘lessons’ being given behind closed doors and telling of “Don’t tell Batdaddy or he’ll get real mad.” “Don’t let Jay know, or he’ll want to punish you for not doing this with him.” “Let this be our secret, (Name). Something just for you and me.” “Can’t tell anyone about this or they’ll ruin it for the both of us.” And they only get even worse from there.

I can’t see Alfred being okay with this in any situation, whatsoever. I think he especially would feel like Bruce and the other boys completely took advantage of the Reader and he would try his best to aid them in trying to keep up with the platonic intention of this entire fiasco. He would be a total cockblock, even going as far as helping Damian in his cockblocking endeavors. Alfred’s intention would be to play both sides so he knows how to help the Reader when it comes to Bruce and the others but it wouldn’t take too long for them to figure out that Alfred is working against them. Like, Alfred was all for the familial-platonic obsession but when things started getting more romantic he was ready to shut that shit down ASAP. You can’t tell me he hasn’t, at least a few times, locked Bruce, Dick, Jason, and Tim out of the house to give the Reader some peace and give Damian his much deserved allotted time with them.

Speaking of Damian, he is a menace (as per usual) but even more so than normal. He really doesn’t take too well to the new direction of his father’s and brothers’ obsession for the Reader. He thinks it’s pretty messed up but he sincerely likes and cares about the Reader and he wants them to stay, he wants them to continue being a part of the family forever so he’ll let some things slide. Some. He even may be willing to look the other way when it eventually comes to Bruce, Dick, Jason, and Tim baby-trapping the Reader if it means this whole ‘family’ thing becomes set in stone with the arrival of a new ‘sibling’. But for the most part, at least early on, Damian would be a huge pain in the ass for the other family members. He feels like he needs to step in to save his darling from the others and their ulterior motives. He’s all his parental/older sibling figure needs, at least at that point. He may even try to runaway with them to keep them safe from the others. Hell, he may even get his mother involved if he was desperate enough, especially if he saw the Reader as a parental figure. Or maybe even another Justice League member to either adopt him and the Reader so that he could have that family experience he was promised with the Reader. Or he would be completely content just living the rest of his life just him and the Reader, platonically of course.

It would either take Bruce or Dick to have a talk with Damian to get him to come to some agreement to allow them to continue with what they’re doing in regards to the Reader. I think Dick would get away with manipulating Damian much better than Bruce could. I think Damian would have some opinions about his father especially throughout this whole situation. Especially since I see Damian being very observant of how Dick, Jason and Tim are behaving towards the Reader early on and picking up on the fuckery taking place, even going as far as telling Bruce about it under the belief his father would be on his side (not ever fathoming the idea of his father also doing similar things to the Reader without him ever knowing). As far as Damian knew his father was completely platonic towards the Reader, as a ‘father’ should be. Right? So understandably Damian feels not only betrayed but also disgusted when he finds out that his father was and still is taking part in, acting in a similarly depraved fashion as the others.

Eventually, I could see them coming together and being one big ‘happy’ family. But it sure as hell comes at a price. (Usually the Reader’s freedom and sense of self outside of the obsession they’ve been dragged into, to drown in alongside their yandere(s).)

I'm radfem adjacent, and primarily consume "whump" for a lot of the reasons already detailed here. For me personally I find a lot of catharsis in this kind of content, but I admit a large part of it is probably my brain being rotted by fanfiction.

A lot of it is self fulfilling prophecy. It's simply way too difficult for me to see a woman character being hurt or tortured, and seeing a man under the same situation is in both parts a kind of revenge or catharsis for my own suffering. And if I desire to see this dynamic, there are truckloads of fanfiction and doujin about this specific topic, sometimes even with a happy ending. Someone else proposed that seeing your favorite character that vulnerable is appealing, which I think holds true for me as well. I think so many women are primarily drawn to gay male fiction because of internalized misogyny, but primarily in the sense it is difficult to see oneself in a sexual fantasy. Projecting or inserting myself into a female character requires so much internal observation of the self. It completely changes the dynamic in my mind, so it is so much easier to just insert a male character that I can project onto as the victim. With a female character I'm asking myself all these questions. Am I as attractive as her? Would the character I'm interacting with in this scenario ever be attracted to me? Would the sexual fantasy proceed in the same way if the other character perceived me as female? It is too painful to think about these things, so I just default to a comfortable impossible yaoi fantasy.

I find female fandom space fascinating, because it is the only part of the internet men have never had any interest in colonizing. So it's an almost clear mirror of how women feel in a hypersexualized society. There are certainly women who sexualize real gay men, but a fictional man is not a man. A fictional gay man is not a gay man. Lines on a screen will always be a projection. As long as women exist in a society where they are told constantly they could be raped, when all real life porn is men getting off to random women being raped, a lot of women will naturally turn that fear into a fantasy that can take the edge off of this constant, looming fear.

Very interesting. You touched on a sentiment I’ve had for a long time, which is that male characters get to be viewed as human first and male second, but female characters are viewed as female first and human second. For example, when a male character is emotional and vulnerable, it’s viewed as a consequence of his individual self. But when a female character is emotional and vulnerable, it’s viewed only as a consequence of her being female. I can definitely understand the feeling that envisioning yourself as a male character is much easier and requires less self-awareness or internal observation.

Honestly, it’s fascinating that you’re interested in the victimization of male characters, at least partly, as vicarious revenge for misogyny. It almost comes across as though you hate these male characters. However, as I mention here, most women in these communities are extremely vocal about loving, caring for, and adoring the male characters whose anguish they romanticize.

Overall, I’m learning that the radical feminist community has very differing opinions on this matter. You and many others have expressed the opinion that whump consumers are interested in male victims because female victims are too real and horrifying to read about. However, myself and others are of the opposite opinion, which is that whump consumers are interested in male victims because there is a lack of compassion for female victims—meaning, female anguish is only recognized for the horrifying tragedy that it is when imposed onto a male character.

@misandry-is-justified articulated this view nicely: “when a woman is victimized its to titillate the (male) audience, but when a man is victimized it is treated rightfully as a horrific and traumatizing incident […] this is why whump so often uses a male victim, because only then is trauma and violence treated as it should and only then is the victim truly treated as a victim.”

Leaving Kindergarten Mafia

There have already been a few posts floating around about the Discord server implosion of Kindergarten Mafia. They do a great job of outlining the events that happened, with documentation, directly from the folks who were harmed by the server owner (Hann) and mods that helped enable their racism. (Snake and Mouse, Jinx1, Jinx2, mousydentist, Faye, among others.) So I'm not going to do that.

These are my own thoughts on the specific racism and tenets of white supremacy that I observed in the server as well as a general commentary on joining fandom spaces.

Rarely do I emphasize my age but it's relevant so here we are : I am 35 years old this year and Kindergarten Mafia was part of my first baby steps into any fandom. Ironically, my hesitation to join fandom ended up being proven because I had heard, for a very long time, that fandom spaces were dominated by racism and a failure to acknowledge POC fans. For a long time, I was complacent and felt "safe" in that server of 300+ folks.

Until one Native member spoke up about the usage of "spirit animal" as appropriative and the cracks in the foundations began to show themselves to everyone and not just the people with marginalized identities.

I had already started to feel uncomfortable in how the server dealt with ableism. There was also a member who I've previously called out on Tumblr, for usage of the m*dget slur in their story, and who became extremely vocal recently. (Spoiler alert - they wrote an entire essay excusing their usage of it, multiple times in the fic, because they couldn't be creative or bothered enough to come up with an alternative for a "short person".)

Without further ado, let's get into it. These are all from the link above, "tenets of white supremacy in organizations" (and yes, a Discord server of 300+ people absolutely DOES count as an organization).

1. Sense of Urgency, such as prioritizing quick or highly visible results that can exclude potential allies. -> In the server, both server owner and problematic mods continued to emphasize that their "missteps" (i.e. racism) was due to needing to seek a solution ASAP for the good of the server.

2. Worshipping the Written Word, such as valuing strong documentation and writing skills. -> Rebuttals to POC/marginalized folks were constantly full of dictionary definitions, copied over.

3. Believing in Only One Right Way, such as concluding something is wrong with people who refuse to adapt or change. -> POC members and allies were banned when anger was expressed because OUR anger suddenly made it an "unsafe" space for the server owner and problematic mods.

4. Paternalism, such as decision-making processes that are only understood by those with power and unclear to those without it.  -> Despite multiple server users disagreeing with the server owner's tactics (including the co-owner, who stepped down), Hann continued to defend + make decisions.

5. Defensiveness, such as spending energy trying to protect power or defend against charges of racism. -> There's too many examples to cite here. But in the end, it was claimed that the initial problem was solved. And then the problem mod was invited back. With additional defense of why.

6. Power Hoarding, such as feeling threatened when anyone suggests organizational changes. -> Instead of wanting to listen to marginalized identities, the server was threatened with a shut-down. Multiple people stepped up to take over as server owner. But power hoarding was more important so not only was the server shut down... it was resurrected from the dead to include their favorite (white) people. This leads us to...

7. Believing I’m the Only One, such as thinking that if something is going to get done right, then ‘I’ have to do it.

8. Fear of Open Conflict, such as equating the raising of difficult issues with being rude or impolite. -> The initial issue around the problematic phrase was ridiculously hush hush. POC members were banned for their (rightfully so) angry remarks.

9. Believing in Objectivity, such as considering emotions to be irrational and destructive to decision-making.  -> Not just the server owner but the people who rushed to defend them and the problematic mods, claimed to be impartial and objective, based on their queer identities or other things. As humans, none of us can actually be objective and all of us are a little racist because racism is a systemic problem that we were raised under.

10. Claiming a Right to Comfort, such as scapegoating those who cause emotional or psychological discomfort. -> In the end, it was clear that only whiteness was valued when POC folks + allies were banned or made to feel uncomfortable enough to leave (such as myself).

I know I've only posted my thoughts/feelings vs documentation (which, you shouldn't always demand because see above for "worshipping the written word") but if this screenshot of the new rules for the new server doesn't convince you that something (racism/cult-ism) is wrong with these folks... I don't know what will.

TL;DR - Ownership and modding of a large Discord server doesn't make you a god. You are, unfortunately, still a puny mortal with the biases that come along with being as such. I'm sure it was a fun power trip for those involved but I am happy to expose the rotting underbelly in a way that I see fit.

In conclusion, I leave you with further reading that will help decolonize your mindset and has done a much better job at showing that the problems with the Kindergarten Mafia are not unique (as they claimed). It is one that those of us with marginalized identities face constantly and we are fucking tired of running into this and being treated in a way that emphasizes the problem with our existence in real life. Intersectionality and decolonization is what will actually liberate us, and without both, online spaces are simply the same reflections of real life.

At the very least, I hope it gives some of you food for thought.

(I will also post my Scathing Letter™ that was my last message in the server as a separate post because I am wordy AF and this is already too long.) [1/26/2024 update] Now with part 2 because apparently I had more things to say.

Male identity: Carmy and Richie

I’m finding that a certain demographic of fans have a much harder time relating to Carmy but very much relate to Richie. Granted, a lot of this has to do with what fandom platform you observe. I actually kind of hate The Bear subreddit but continue to browse it periodically because it’s super interesting to hear what “the others” are talking about. I rarely engage anymore because it’s mostly nonsense and a totally different vibe than Tumblr. The contingent is definitely very anti-Carmy x Sydney and seems to hate Sydney. I’ve also noticed that while there is a lot of love for Carmy there is even more love for Richie. I’m very intrigued by this perspective. 

This season Richie was definitely a standout. I think Ebon is an amazing actor and am glad he is finally getting nominated for his role. I thought he got robbed with the non-Emmy nominations. But even before S2 I noticed that Richie was the most favored character among the Reddit demo and perhaps a big part of the general audience. That’s fine, people can favor who they like. I know that doesn’t represent everyone but I do think that speaks for what I consider general audience and makes sense considering how society still views manhood despite social progress. This season even a lot of the reviews were kind of meh about Carmy. I get it, I initially was writing him off too, was pissed, and thought he had the worst arc. Then once thoughts settled he went back to being my hero. Deeply flawed, but I just relate to him so much and he’s fascinating to watch. I’m a woman, so maybe that helps my empathy. I also don’t think The Bear would work with Richie as the lead as some have suggested. 

The thing is Carmy is a more difficult character because he has multiple layers of trauma, his work is so specialized and niche, he is a sensitive soul, he’s artistic, and he doesn’t fit the mold of the working class male models he was surrounded by. Your typical man can’t relate to him. And most likely your typical conservative leaning woman can’t either. At the Christmas party he was appalled at how the other guys were talking about Claire. And this is a woman he had a crush on and is present day attracted to. He could have easily been superficial and macho and laughed at the jokes as expected. He didn’t let Richie get away with calling Syd sweetheart. Richie says he’s “woke”. He employs a woman in a leadership role. He’s built different. 

He is struggling in many ways that are hidden and he also lashes out. The hidden ways and the lashing out are interpreted as whiny and annoying by people that can’t relate. He’s been cited as not growing but people can’t acknowledge that his healing won’t be linear. But how can it be when his trauma was collected in overlapping seasons for most of his life? The pain didn’t develop in a linear path. He had a stutter when he was young. There are hints that there is a learning issue of some sort (I’m not going to try and diagnose). He was always the “different” one in the family. The other guys call him “weird”. His father was absent. His mom has mental health issues and is an alcoholic. He witnessed the traumatic incident at Christmas and I’m sure it wasn’t the only such incident. His brother was an addict that pushed him away, then killed himself. He went into a chaotic, highly demanding field that required him to isolate to excel. He is shy and has trouble forming close bonds. He had a mentally abusive boss. He was always super competitive. He comes back to own The Beef and it’s problem after problem. How are people expecting him to be “fun” and have an easy comeback like Richie? 

Richie has issues, too. Stagnant in mid-life, spent years devoted to an addict, failed marriage, feeling disillusioned and displaced, also an absent father. But when we meet Richie he’s not as wounded as Carmy. Carmy is literally sleep cooking, almost starting fires, dissociating, having panic attacks. Richie is sad but it mostly manifests as him being kind of nasty and grumpy. He’s like a sour old man with dated and offensive jokes. His behavior is dismissed because he’s grieving. Which yes, he deserves a pass. But why does he deserve a bigger pass than Carmy who is dealing with so much more or Sydney who seemed to bear the biggest brunt of his outrage and was also struggling? Carmy is literally on the verge of a breakdown and has the weight of trying to keep the staff, the business, and himself afloat. Despite all this Richie gets a lot of indulgences for his bad behavior that Carmy isn’t. 

Richie is easier for a lot of people to digest because he’s funny, he’s the working class representative, he’s tall (yes people have height bias, especially with men). Carmy is viewed as the pompous prodigal son that’s trying to ruin Richie’s delicate ecosystem by gentrifying and kicking out “the working man”. There are people posting in disgust that he dare change The Beef despite it being a hell hole money pit. 

It’s just so interesting that in reality we are dealing with an unprecedented numbers of men who report extreme loneliness, depression, hopelessness. Richie and Carmy both fit that profile. Yet, a man like Richie is broadly understood and accepted and a man like Carmy isn’t. It goes back IMO to the continual coding of masculine/good vs feminine/bad. Richie is the stereotypical red blooded American male. He wants the stripper’s panties. He has a gun. He needs to be alpha. He views anything outside the norm as a threat. He wants to preserve tradition at all costs. Carmy is his foil. Carmy is viewed as feminine. 

I see it even on Tumblr with the persistent identification of Carmy as somehow feminine. Like he can’t be soft and traumatized and just be a man. So what does that say when even people who would probably consider themselves progressive still classify a man in feminine terms if he isn’t a MAN? We accept all types of gender identities but still struggle with a man not fitting the correct paradigm. Society still has issues accepting that men can be vulnerable and struggling without being feminized. People also make assumptions about Carmy’s gender identity and sexuality based on his trauma. Like, of course he has to be XYZ because well, look at him, he’s sad an pathetic. What does that say about men’s sexuality and identity? Are only queer men accepted as sad? Carmy could be a queer character, cool, representation matters. But I just find the semi-automatic equation of queerness with an atypical male to be odd and a bit regressive. 

Edited to add on above: I hope what I’m saying doesn’t get interpreted as dismissing queer people who identify with Carmy. I get it, I support it. What I’m speaking to is the insistence that canon Carmy is queer because of his interests, aesthetic, and mental health as if that is the only identity option. Granted, he could be bi. I also think some people are insistent on this, just as they are on Syd not being into men, as a way to negate the possibility of them being romantic. Again, I’m saying some people. Also, proximity and shared struggle doesn’t equal identity. This makes me think of once when a white gay male bestie claimed we are the same because I’m a black women. I had to kindly correct. We share the same haters, we are both marginalized, but he will never know my experience just like I will never know his. We can bond on the commonalities but we aren’t exactly the same. IMO, it would be a disservice to both of us to claim different.

I’m really rambling, but just thought I would share my thoughts and open a conversation about this. 

On racism and the moral condemnation of certain danmei characters

In light of recent fandom discourse, I’ve been thinking of this open letter by diaspora, published in July last year. This statement really hit hard for me. Since then, I’ve talked to other diaspora at length about the meaning MDZS and the wider danmei fandom holds for us, the ways interacting with fandom can be a deeply painful experience, and the way that pain can be exacerbated by fandom discourse— in this particular case, black-and-white moral statements about certain characters, and by extension, about certain aspects of Chinese culture.

For non-Chinese people, I feel like danmei can be "just" a fandom, a book that you can pick up and put down. But for us diaspora, it's a lot more fraught. A common theme I've observed across a lot of the diaspora I know is the sense of having at some point shunned Chinese culture, language, or heritage, and thus becoming alienated from it, only to regret it later. Being in danmei fandom and being immersed in our culture forces us, in a lot of ways, to confront the ways we've grown alienated from our own culture. And in that way, it also forces us to confront the painful reasons for that alienation.

For a lot of western diaspora, it's confronting the racism they face as minorities, which caused them to shun their culture out of a wish to integrate fully and be accepted by others. For me, as someone living in Asia, it's confronting the sexism, homophobia, and transphobia rampant in our society. It’s confronting the many ways I've been told, angrily, and with disgust, that I do not have a place in Chinese culture because I am a queer, non-binary feminist, and that I’m “westernized” for believing in my own rights.

I feel in a lot of ways, danmei fandom has become a space in which diaspora can "come home", a safe space we can reconnect with our culture, and celebrate it in a prejudice-free zone. But too often, we face racist microaggressions in the way non-Chinese audiences condemn parts of our culture. Sometimes, it’s even outright racism, open declarations that “Chinese culture is backwards and barbaric”. All this drives us to have to DEFEND our culture against western audiences in our own safe space, even the aspects of it that we struggle with ourselves, the aspects that are the very basis of our own oppression. As the statement explains:

There is often a frankly stunning lack of self-awareness re: cultural biases and blind spots when it comes to discussions of MDZS, particularly moral ones. There are countless righteous claims and hot takes on certain aspects of the story, its author, and the characters that are so clearly rooted in a Euroamerican political and moral framework that does not reflect Chinese cultural realities and experiences.

Too often, I’ve seen fellow diaspora having to tackle issues of corporal punishment in the discussion of YZY and JC. I’ve seen diaspora having to defend collectivist norms or Confucian social hierarchy, or to explain the sexism and homophobia woven deeply into Chinese society, in discussions of characters like JC, LXC, and LQR. Often, these defenses are prompted by western audiences attempting to paint these characters, their fans, or even MXTX herself as BAD and WRONG in completely black and white terms. When diaspora have tried to provide perspective that “unfortunately, these mindsets are still prevalent and accepted in Chinese society, so the issue is really not so black and white”— they get slapped with accusations like “abuse apologist” and “homophobe”. OFTEN, we also get slapped with racist remarks or insinuations that we and our culture are backwards and barbaric.

The unfortunate fact is that due to the prevalence and widespread acceptance of these mindsets, we navigate a society where people we care about, people we love, people we know to care about us deeply, are inflicting these prejudices and oppressive hierarchies on us. Our defense of these parts of Chinese culture is often, in fact, a defense of our parents, family, and friends, the people we care about and love. Sometimes, it’s also because we’ve been outright and directly accused of “homophobia” “sexism” and “apologism” for liking these characters and producing positive meta of them. But do you think we like doing this? Do you think we LIKE having to defend the parts of Confucian hierarchy, the parts of broader Chinese society that oppress us?

Discovering MDZS was wondrous for me, it was like finding a promised land where I finally have a place in Chinese culture, language, media, and society. Here, I get to reconnect with my culture alongside other queer diaspora, other people who are like me. It has helped me to come to terms with both my queer identity and my Chinese identity, and it is helping me to reconcile the two. That's why MDZS fandom is a deeply meaningful place for a lot of diaspora. It is a safe space where we can “come home” to our culture and heritage.

That is why I am asking: PLEASE do not make this place a hostile environment for Chinese diaspora. PLEASE do not normalize the demonization of Chinese culture and Chinese people. No one is telling you that you have to agree with and be comfortable with all aspects of Chinese culture. HECK, most of us diaspora aren’t! No one is telling you that you have to like characters that represent these uncomfortable aspects. Not all diaspora like those characters either. But please— do not thoughtlessly fling around moral accusations. Please do not demonize diaspora for saying things that you disagree with.

To you, danmei and the culture depicted in it may just be a work of fiction— a book you can scrutinize, pick apart, and morally condemn, before closing the book and walking away to resume your life. But to us, it is a difficult and fraught social reality that we have to live with and navigate every single day of our lives. And so, I’d like to end off by quoting a line from the statement’s conclusion, a line that has stuck with me since it was published:

We don’t have the luxury of stepping away from our culture when we get tired of it. We don’t get to put it down and walk away when it gets difficult. But if you’re not Chinese or Chinese diaspora, you get to put this book down—we’d like to kindly request that you put it down gently.

Reminder, everyone, that queerness is not a personality trait. It can be an essential part of your identity and representation fucking matters, but your personality does NOT define your gender or sexuality.

The point of this post is not to call anyone out in particular for perpetuating harmful stereotypes about queerness/gender, but to ask people to be more reflective about why we tend to base our understanding of queerness in particular around stereotypical ideas of femininity and masculinity. Hypermasculinity harms all of us. If you are a trans woman, there is no RIGHT/CORRECT way to be a woman. If you are a trans man, you should NOT feel like you are less of a man because you embrace qualities our heteronormative society deems “feminine.” Obviously, right? Well, if you were to observe fandom and shipping dynamics, these values become…murky.

I say this out of the kindness of my heart and with all the love in the world, but folks gotta be more careful when they say, “I can’t believe people think THIS character is straight!!!!” with 100% sincerity particularly regarding a narrative where the author very obviously did not intend to make characters gay. (You’re excused if you say it because you’re just passionate and having a good time and I respect you for that.)

I am bothered by these statements because…upon what exactly are you basing this argument? The problem is, because the author (derogatory) did not intend for people to interpret particular characters as gay/queer, there is a strong likelihood this statement is based on stereotypical ideas of what queerness looks like. “He is dramatic/emotional” is…uh…not a good reason to think someone is gay. A man with stereotypical feminine qualities does not necessarily mean they are gay. A woman with traits associated with hypermasculinity does not necessarily mean they are gay.

Do I think Remus Lupin and Nymphadora Tonks are gay? YES. Do I think Tonks could probably be gender fluid? Yes! Do I adamantly believe that Sirius is a bisexual semi-aro superstar? Also very much Yes. So it’s not like I don’t have opinions or feelings about this. However, there is SO MUCH HARM in believing that men who embrace softness, beauty, and vulnerability MUST be queer. Okay, you say. But in MY mlm ship, one guy is SUPER DUPER masculine and the other one is feminine. Right. That’s part of my point. Hypermasculinity is so pervasive even in queer spaces that ships are often reduced to “this is the top/masculine person in the relationship, and this is the bottom/feminine person.” So…uhhhh…what does this sound like?

Yesterday, I had a conversation with my students (teenagers) to explain why “she wears the pants in the relationship” is an extremely harmful idea. I asked them, “Okay, so what does that mean when you say that?” Students responded that it meant that the woman was the “boss” in her heterosexual relationship—that she was the controlling one.

“So when you say ‘she wears THE pants,’ are you suggesting that one person wears the ‘traditionally masculine’ article of clothing and the other should wear the traditionally ‘feminine’ article of clothing?” I prompted. They could see where I was going with this. So I went on, “Think about what we’re insinuating here. We’re saying that men are leaders—or at least, they SHOULD be. Masculinity is being a leader, and femininity is being a follower. Making a snide remark that ‘she wears the pants’ suggests that she is NOT assuming proper gender roles and it might strike some of us as funny. But do we see the problem with this? What does that sound like to you? And for that matter, should ANY partnership be so unbalanced that ONE person controls it?”

Kids were shaking their heads, but one student was really troubled by this. “But in every relationship, there’s got to be the person in charge and the person who is just…” He didn’t really finish the sentence. I’m pleased to say that most of my students immediately recognized the glaring issue with this. Most of the class shot this kiddo very horrified looks, and he was so shocked that people weren’t on his side (goodhearted kid, but clearly some messed up gender roles going on at his house). I let them discuss a bit more and finished with, “Be reflective in your relationships, friends. Dynamics like this can sometimes point to power imbalances—and generally, people shouldn’t feel inferior in their partnerships.”

Fandom is SO LIKE THIS. We equate personality with sexuality and gender so hard!!!! We try to inject hypermasculinity into queer spaces SO HARD. At some point, your desire to be ‘subversive’ just turns into toxic heteronormativity. When you make Remus hypermasculine and Sirius hyperfeminine because it “just feels right” - consider WHY this feels right to you when there really is not a lot in canon that points to these things. Why does it feel right to you that one person should “be a top” and one should “be a bottom”? This is not to say this is ILLEGAL or you shouldn’t make Sirius feminine—it’s just…think about the underlying message here when it’s in contrast to very very masculine Remus.

My point here is NOT “stop making characters gay/feminine!!!” My point is, hell yeah, the characters who are canonically straight could be gay, but also I really recommend avoiding basing this on stereotypes. “I can’t believe people think this overly dramatic/emotional/fashionable/soft man is straight!” Unpack that. Really think about it. What are you really saying? Just…be reflective, folks. You are not immune to the heteronormative agenda.

TL;DR // softness, aggressiveness, beauty, love, gentleness, competitiveness, etc. belong to everyone, every gender, every sexuality.

Wake up babes of the GO fandom turtleneck-crowley just dropped their most recent Magnus Opus🥰🥰🥰

Hey guys I am a eccentric genius artist of the century whose works will probably only be appreciated post mortem (self-diagnosed)

Im also very certain you would all blorbos me if I were a fictional character but alas I am a boring meat package that got birthed out of an afab physiology and thus a sack of mouldy potatoes might have been a more interesting source writing this post. (Pure hubris, part irrational resentment that you are all quite familiar with *cheeky hot wink*)

I happen to own a get out of jail free card called catch 22 which is crafted out of part sarcasm, part idgasinglefgtfoofmyfacei180dmycringethroughyearsofpainandselfrelctionthatim toocoolforyounow public image

(if you actually read that you deserve, well nothing actually except perhaps my condolences and a consensual pat on the back that implies my unlicensed diagnosis that you are in fact, not dyslexic)

Anyhow cracking on back to the sentence *sighs and rolls eyes with you*

(-I mean in the streets, not with you guys, here im babygirl with half a brain cell/true form), part wholesome idiocy, years of experience in masking, part looking presentable, part knowing how society and science and art works and trying to be in tact with my own sense of humanity as much as possible -at least to the point where I’m not breaking any humanitarian law…

And yes bitch the whole eccentric genius /madly passionate or passionately mad paradox catch 22 license holder is you af - want a gold star? ⭐️ (crowley ref) (affectionate banter)

Fact is tumblrinas like to heighten and balance their EQ and IQ agreed?

I’m hyper aware that you guys are smart enough to assess me as going through a manic phase that is on the verge of psychotic-having observed hints of madness in my recent posts deducing via your own experiences that I have gone through a strict diet of coffee, whiskey, smut that Neil Gaiman himself would tear his locks and Sir Terry Pratchett would roll in his grave, finished off with a nice slice of Hozier songs as dessert

(that’s on top of of a yet to be discovered food chain which I call the Antichrist diet footnote: please credit me after I die before my Tesla gets Edisoned

‘Tis actually a great alternative way to invoke a psychedelic experience in substitute of the more expensive and questionably unlawful way that is smoking crack *disclaimer not recommended for the faint hearted or those self-diagnosed as mentally stable)

You are perfectly correct! Here’s another gold star!!! ⭐️

In fact I am currently being yelled by my parents to come downstairs because I need to be dropped off to the asylum while I’m trying to actually do something that gives me joy (Joan of Arc eat your heart out) and I assure you I have eyes and witness my very legs , naked and hairy (and did I mention Im only wearing a slutty black bra and skirt that I wore as a swimming suit AND a pajama and now my back to the looney bin outfit?) leaving a perfectly good soup with baguettes as evidenced here

However, I would like to UNO reverse such a caring notion by giving you a purple heart 💜

and divert you with a fun little clip that displays our para social relationship that I am hoping has deepened through my superficial charm to portray our rendezvous as warm and familiar and human as our beloved Mr. Holmes and Doctor Watson:

No worries, Watson also came with the conslusion that the person he’s engaged with (more like to amiright- not us i mean, them, that’s where the analogy is cut off back into our real identities) is “not human”

Anyhow it might not be your cup of tea but at least hold the mug for a few minutes it’s worth it

Head fic: Gods of Sex and Idiocy

(If anything please see it as a game where we can title it better cause I’m shit at naming things - I call one of my plants Joe)

Hey Good Omens fandom

With the note of:

“who needs sane when you have creative”

-turtleneck-crowley

I have made a meta season 3 in my head and the stars have even sent me a playlist ??? (It’s the only one that seems to be downloaded on my wifi less phone)

Here’s the link:

Check out some of my latest posts

It’s really immersive and otherworldly

Down the rabbit hole and through the mirror you go 🐇🎩🪄

And what if season 1 is the ace route and season 2 is the sexual route so season 3 might be an aro route to defeating the enemy?

Ngk idk idc idgaf

I’m just like phone rn

(side note: why do I have the infinite capacity of taking pains (Sherlock reference) for being a mad artist instead of working on the next big physics formula answer? Good question: I’m actually just an emotional idiot aka sexy trash ✨ that’s addicted to blogging and I wouldn’t trade it for any other praise worthy status in the world 💜)

Honestly guys I sound like a sociopath but I’m really just very pained and fucked royally by circumstance that is too dramatic and gay for anyone except the loonies on tumblr to understand. I’m so disappointed by all this unjust pain and agony of the world- the children, the animals, the environment, the people that I have conditioned myself to display an eloquence so pungent it seems like I’m a cold manipulator. For if I ever showed myself for who I was to them- the judgers, the perverted, the scheming, I would surely be dead either by my own or someone else’s hands. Maybe I’m God and they just like tumblr and good omens and want to eat crepes in peace with the personality they split into 2 -preferably in Paris. Maybe they have been placed all the blame by the enemy and they are powerless to the human condition as you all are by an unknown enemy and is fated to be tortured in anxiety and pain invisible to all and the only infinite power they have is love that bleeds.

But I’ll give you and I both the peace of mind that I am an in fact just a mentally ill human whose life span is between the zones of expiration and fermentation, with a god complex, whom their closest people will never truly know how to care no matter how much they try- and in fact the more they try to help me the more they leave me in my original state- alone.

I leave you (no I’m not killing myself you idiot I’m going to the mental hospital to be molested by nightmares of demons - I literally experience it everyday- as they force me to take my sleeping pills which sinks me deeper into it-oh wait that’s kind of worse lmao) with this favorite piece of classical music of mine

Stay safe yall I love you

Hi BPP, lemme pick your beautiful brain abit if you don’t mind. So i think it is really beautiful that jikook decided to enlist together using the buddy program. But no matter how much i think about it, i can’t seem to figure out why they decided to do that if they are not more than friends. Don’t get me wrong, i am not saying that people who are just friends cannot do the buddy program, no, they definitely can and they have in the past but my thing is, with the way almost everyone was kinda convinced that jikook had grown distant and were not as close anymore in chapter two, how do u explain them choosing to go together, being joined at the hip for 18 months? Plus they have to have talked about this at some point way before they applied. So while many of us sat here thinking they were not as close anymore, they were making plans to enlist together as buddies? Why would they even consider this if they weren’t really close to each other and if they were still so close to each other enough to consider using this option, why did they both sometimes act like they were a little distant?

I can understand not wanting things to be so obvious but u could really tell that Jimin especially seemed very…, i dunno, different about Jk in chapter two. I don’t know of i’m making alot of sense rn or if u even understand where i’m coming from (i hope u do) but i’d love to hear what u think.

***

Oh god. I wish you sent me this ask an hour ago when I was still sober because I really want to answer this right this moment but there's at least 6 fingers of Lagavulin in me. Sorry in advance for whatever you read below - I've been told I ramble and I'm more of a cunt when I'm intoxicated.

I want to say I told you so. It was clear that whatever distance jikook showed in Chapter 2 was self-imposed. It looked like a caricature of what an actual breakup would look like, in my opinion. And mind you, I've never been certain that jikook are dating. They might not be and it wouldn't make a real difference to what we've all observed them to be: something more to each other than whatever is normal.

Any distance that showed in Chapter 2 was simply spatial. The way I saw it, Chapter 2 was a period for each member to present themselves to the world as individuals. It's something I believe every member took extremely seriously. It's possibly one reason Jungkook agonized over his album to the point Bang PD intervened and we thankfully got Golden. Chapter 2 was a big deal for them. Necessary. At the same time, all the boys know the narratives they have in the fandom. They know there's a faction of fans who believe either Jimin or Jungkook uses the other to remain popular in the fandom, they likely know most of the least flattering ones floating around. They know external critics are also likely to conflate their individual efforts and motives, whether positively or negatively.

I think it was important for every member to present themselves as a singular artist in Chapter 2, and this was even moreso for jikook because of their reputation of being stuck at the hip and/or overly dependent on each other. So on one hand I think they were more careful about showing their intimacy because of external critics and perceptions, but I also think they did it for themselves. They've always had lives outside each other and they had things they needed to pay attention to in any case, with enlistment looming over the horizon.

But now that it's happened, it feels very obvious that if they had the chance to do the Buddy program, they'd do it. I think part of what you're asking Anon, is which came first - did they decide to 'appear distant' in Chapter 2 before they decided to enlist together? Or was it afterwards?

Personally, I don't think it matters much which came first. They have always and always were going to choose each other. Jikook excite me because they are literally always jikooking. I'm not sure if people think I'm joking whenever I say it, but I mean it when I say I don't worry one second about those lads because they are always jikooking.

Even while they were apparently not so close in Chapter 2, some of those times they looked tormented. What was Jungkook thinking going live, just to stare at Jimin's tattooed chest in SMF Pt 2?

What was that bit with JK naked in bed and Jimin saying he could handle him? Jikook were messy as hell during their supposed 'distance' in Chapter 2 lool. Whether or not they were fucking a girl on the side makes no difference to how I think about what's gone down in the last 18 months, and it likely won't influence what I think of them during the next 18 months.

i assume that's a hypothetical question, but the reason people are so much more defensive of Sylvie than other characters like Loki is that people are so much meaner about her. you really can't go a day in this fandom without seeing Sylvie slander – which is why I really appreciate that even though you don't ship Sylki, you still respect the character and you still make Sylvie into some fucking awesome memes

I guess my refusal to take part in fandom at large is shielding me from a lot of this overt hostility. I’m just sitting here in my sandbox with a couple of trusted mutuals while the world burns around us

having spent 22 years in fandom though, I am intimately aware of this strategy in relation to shipping. slandering the woman in a ship you don’t like is a tale as old as time. so in that way I can sympathise with Sylki shippers automatically being really on edge and assuming the worst at all times

what I do not understand is how you can look at my entire history of content and come to the conclusion that I hate Sylvie. she is all over the place! yeah there are posts that are anti Sylki, but I make a point of giving the character love and attention on a daily basis. I made the observation early on that most of my followers weren’t that keen on Sylki, or Sylvie herself, judging by average number of notes on edits about either. I wrote a whole goddamn post about it, and I am actually really sad about the fact that I will make a great Sylvie edit and then it will get next to no notes, because it’s about Sylvie. has that stopped me from making content about her? no! and it really should not be hard to figure out why I would continue to shower attention on a character even when the general response is crickets chirping

I’ll give you a hint. it’s because I adore her. her and Brad are special in that way. I refuse to stop making content about them, no matter the popularity of the result, and I will keep doing this until you pry my laptop from my cold, dead hands

Aromanticism and Otome Games

I am an aromantic who loves otome games. It may seem incredibly contradictory, especially since the common perception of otomes is that they are wish-fulfillment games for people to insert themselves into a story where they date attractive men. There's definitely nothing wrong with playing them in that way, and many people get a lot of enjoyment out of them, but that isn't the only way to play an otome game. In fact, many otome game players prefer not to self-insert at all and I’m one of them!

My personal experience being aromantic means I do not feel romantic attraction to anyone, and I do not desire or need a romantic relationship to feel fulfilled in life. I’m perfectly happy with my platonic bonds and my perpetual singleness! That’s how I experience it, but there are many different ways to be aromantic, and there’s no one universal experience that defines how all aromantic people live their lives. Some are repulsed by romance and its overbearing presence in nearly all forms of media, and others are comfortable seeing other people experience romance despite not experiencing it themselves (though these, of course, are not the only two groups). I personally lean more towards the latter category. I love romance stories! 

For me, playing an otome game is like watching a romance movie where I get to decide who the heroine ends up with. It's like a shipper's dream! I don’t self-insert because I am not comfortable putting myself in romantic situations, but by observing a fictional couple, I can safely explore the romantic plots and experiences that interest me. And let me tell you, I love a good romance plot. Especially one with drama.

A comparison I like to make when people don’t seem to get it is that I also really, really love murder mysteries and tragedies, but I do NOT want to actually experience them myself. What I want for a character and what I want for myself are two completely separate things, so there’s really no contradiction! 

In fact, playing otome games was a big part of my aromantic journey in the first place. I never had crushes as a kid that weren’t forced or peer pressured. When people talk about the characters in their childhood shows that they had crushes on, I can never relate. To me, there were only interesting characters and stories. I’ve never really wanted anything more than that. 

So when my second-ever relationship ended and I was wondering whether I really felt romantic attraction at all, I decided to try otome games. 

I chose Collar x Malice as my first game because, as I mentioned earlier, I am a huge fan of mysteries and tragedies, and the premise intrigued me. Then, throughout my exploration of various otome games (and as I quickly became hooked on them) I tried some games with less developed heroines, specifically made for self-inserting, and found that I couldn’t handle them. Separating myself from the heroine helped me enjoy the games more as I realized that I didn’t actually want to be in these romantic situations myself, but only wanted to enjoy the story.

So what was the point of this whole post? I guess just to share my own personal experiences as an aromantic otome-lover and address the contradiction. Otome games aren’t necessarily mainstream-popular, but they certainly have their dedicated fans, and I’ve really enjoyed the interactions I’ve had so far with these fandom spaces. 

Sure, the primary focus of the games may be pretty boys who you can date, but otome games can also be so much more than that! It’s a genre I’m glad I decided to try. 

I’m happy to be an aro along for the ride to read some good stories, puzzle out the right route choices, and look at some aesthetically pleasing character designs along the way! :)

I’m an Outlander fan. I’m also a SH fan. So why am I part of the minority in this Outlander/SH fandom?

I finally get it. I’ve had at least 5 people Dm me to say goodbye. Too toxic and mean. Each time I tried to convince them it’s not so bad, give it a chance. For the past 2 years I’ve read amazing things, posts and discussions.But last month I realized that I need a break. This fandom is my guilty pleasure. But how much pleasure is there when anon haters and trolls insert themselves into posts with comments like “I know who you are and you’re ugly” and “You’re stupid”. I realize the troll or trolls responsible aren’t exactly mental giants, but this behaviour would have been out of line when my kid was 5- from grown ass adults? Pathetic. So after a month I spent some time catching up and the one thing that really started to bug me came -from what seems like the majority in this fandom- was the insistence they really don’t care about SH or Outlander and they are just observing the “circus”. Seriously? If you regularly and consistently comment, follow, post and reblog SH’s every activity you are an active participant. You are interested. You are engaged. You are committed. You just don’t like SH. Not a prerequisite for the fandom, just don’t come at me for calling bullshit. Funny how so called “lurkers” post such specific anon posts. I read a post from a “lurker” who feels the mommies and grannies want to infantilize SH. They don’t. To be clear, I would confidently estimate at least 80% of SH fans don’t pay the comic con equivalent of the champagne room with any such thoughts. Take care of him? Absolutely. Touching, snogging or F*ucking him? Absolutely. And if you have a problem with that I’d like to introduce you to an 82 year old firecracker who will set you straight. Hey @dragonstepp!

So these “just observing don’t care” folks aren’t content just going after SH fans, they somehow feel he is not entitled to earn a living. Because he retweets posts from fans who buy his books or liquor or enjoy his show he is what exactly? Why do you care? Over a 100 celebrities have in one way or another put their name and face on tequila, vodka, gin etc. because fans purchase products endorsed by them. Thanking and acknowledging supporters is a way to build a brand. SH sells thousands of bottles. And just not to fans. Heard of Nobu? Why the outrage over the retweet’s? Like clockwork the casual “lurker’s” come together with torches and pitchforks every time he thanks a fan. Personally I’m impressed how he has been able to capitalize on his Outlander fame. Why wouldn’t he? Love him or hate him, SH is a smart guy who just happens to be really good looking.

One last thing. He’s been in the public eye over 10 years and I don’t think I’ve ever read a negative comment from his fans. Not every celebrity is so accommodating to fans. Many just say no to an autograph or selfie. Why is it so hard to believe that he just might be imperfect but still a decent man?

And if you’re thinking of coming at me as a brainless fan that SH has somehow taken advantage of/ don’t try me. And it’s not so much SH that I’m defending, but the thousands of women who consider SH a book boyfriend or fantasy man or whatever. We like him. We really like him. And we enjoy him. And why we participate in the fandom. So for the love of Ginger Jesus (sorry couldn’t resist) can someone explain why so many observers, lurkers, casual observers and haters are some of the most prolific participants in this fandom? Like him or don’t but don’t get upset if I call bullshit on your indifference.

Can I run something past the Malevolent Fandom that’s been bugging me?

I’m writing this post-Ep 27, for future reference.

I want to talk about Kayne/Kane/Cain, our resident terrifying murder man. To the point even John, fully aware of who he was as the King, is bordering on sheer fucking fight-or-flight terror at the results of Kayne’s boredom, a man who wiped out an entire city while waiting for Arthur then sat and played possibly the most painful tune he could to lure him in. A man John said looked like he had been playing, painting, with the bodies of the dead.

I haven’t seen anyone say anything about the old tales of Cain and Abel…

Kayne called The King in Yellow “Hastur”, a literal Duke of Hell. Kayne also references Lillith, both of which bring in the Abrahamic lore. Arthur has discussed his worlds take on Christianity to John, and describes it as a cult in and of its own. All of which means that Kayne might actually be Cain. The man who murdered his brother in jealousy and when God, a literal all-seeing all-knowing deity, asked where Abel was? “I do not know, I am not my brothers keeper.”

Now, Arthur has Kayne’s knife. His personal knife. If Kayne is Cain, and Arthur has the literal KNIFE OF CAIN, is no one considering that this might be worsening Arthur’s murderous desires? Don’t get me wrong, he absolutely would have murdered Mr. Larson regardless of who’s knife it was, but I don’t think he would have gone after Uncle. He would have made the actual man responsible pay, not just whoever he could get his hands on. His rage would have been the surgical focused intent we’ve been seeing, not this mindless caged animal behavior.

On the murder of Uncle, (who Arthur tells us is likely Jack, from the paperwork in the cabin where he first meets Yellow) I really don’t think he would have killed him if he didn’t have Cain’s Knife. I am seriously convinced that this is effecting him, because if he had John with him when he found out Jack is Uncle, the conversation would have looked differently. John would have reminded him of the man’s letters apologizing to his mother, of the childish scrawl. John is doing much better about being a detective and an astute observer for and with Arthur. It is only with great work and great details he has been able to work Arthur out of these fits and rages, yeah? When in the past Arthur hadn’t been near as vicious and been willing to compromise. (Yes, I do think a large part of the loss of that is due more to stress and trauma and his own constant hyper-vigilance that hasn’t been allowed to turn off for literal months, but a legit Cursed Artifact cannot be helping matters.)

Am I the only one thinking this…?

"I'm not saying I didn't like it."

Type: Fanfiction

Fandom: Mortal Kombat

Characters: Harumi Shirai, Hanzo Hasashi, Kuai Liang

Harumi let out a phew as she finished with the kitchen. She made a mental note to never let Hanzo try to cook ever again. She looked outside the window over the sink, observing the Shirai Ryu training under the shapeshifter. Speaking of the family, the sound of armor clinking made its way to her ears. She turned her head to see Hanzo.

 “Mission?”, she asked.

 Hanzo nodded, “It is a matter I can solve on my own, Harumi. So Kuai Liang will be staying back.”

 “Great, I won’t get lonely without you then.”, Harumi playfully said, to which the maskless King gave a soft smile.

 “Oh I am sure you won’t.”

 “What are you two talking about?”, Kuai Liang asked as he entered the kitchen to greet his partners.

 “Are we not allowed to?”, Harumi asked, smiling and with an eyebrow raised.

 “I didn’t say that.”

 “It’s a joke, Kuai Liang.”, Hanzo said.

 “I know, I’m just stating facts.”

 “Right, well.”, Harumi continued, “I’m finished here, so I can take over for the kid in the training sessions today.”

 Hanzo raised an eyebrow, “Why? They seem to have everything under control.”

 “Three thousand years old is practically a teenager in Edenian years, I was told. Let the kid have a life outside of the clan.”

 “But they’re not Edenian?”

 “Closest thing. I don’t know their lifespan.”

 “Right.”, Hanzo said before walking closer to Harumi, planting a kiss on her cheek, “I’ll be heading out then. Careful you two.”

 “Aren’t you forgeting something?”, Kuai Liang asked, moving to stand next to Harumi just as Hanzo was ready to head out the door.

 The taller man stopped and stared at him in silence for a moment, before it seemed he finally understood what Kuai Liang meant, judging by his facial expression. Hanzo moved back towards him, and gave him a kiss on the cheek as well before walking out the door.

 Kuai Liang stood frozen for a solid minute before shaking his head and trying to call after Hanzo, “I meant your mask, idiot!”

 “I uh, think he already left.”, Harumi said.

 Kuai Liang made a weird noise from his throat, his face beet red, which made Harumi chuckle.

 “Are you okay?”

 “No! I’m not used to this!”

 “Hey, don’t worry. You can tell Hanzo you didn’t like it and he won’t do it again.”

 “I’m not saying I didn’t like it.”, Kuai Liang mumbled.

 “What?”

 “What?”

 The two stood stared at each other for a few seconds before Kuai Liang turned his head in embarrassment.

 “You know.”, Harumi said, “There is nothing wrong with liking Hanzo as well.”

 “Isn’t he with you?”

 “Yes, but,”, she stepped closer to him, “Kuai, I think you should understand that both Hanzo and I don’t see your presence as an obstacle to our relationship. Really, we want you to be part of it.”

 “I-Is that how relationships work....?”

 Harumi chuckled, taking his hand in hers, “I believe it is called ‘polyamory’, Kuai Liang.”

 Kuai Liang let her hold his hand as he continued to think. Hanzo and Harumi were two of the most important people in his life, and he never wanted their relationship to break. Would this make him feel better? Would it truly consecrate their bond for as long as they lived?

 “I......think we should talk more when Hanzo comes back.”

 Harumi cupped his hand with a soft smile, “Take your time, Kuai. And remember, you are not forced to agree into anything. We only want you to be happy.”

 “..I understand. Thank you Harumi...I love you.”

 “Love you two, Kuai.”

Actual episode 70 discussion before I vanish back into the aether to do coursework:

Obligatory meta bit: I’m in the process of reading Interaction Ritual Chains for a draft thesis chapter (which I need to be writing now) and just happened to be halfway through reading the section on remote/virtual rituals when the episode dropped. The book includes stuff like sports events and concerts as rituals, defined as community-building events where people share an experience and get meaningful symbols and stories out of it. But it has a whole section on why this needs to be in-person. I’ve never really done live premieres before because my fandoms tended to be old, but I’ve now got participation observation data to disprove that - it’s definitely a shared experience for the fan community, and we have plenty of stories. Fandom is folk culture!

The appearance of cam-ghosts and Plunger’s interaction with the secret agent was very cool as I love the “sufficiently advanced tech is indistinguishable from the supernatural” trope. The camghosts could have been hallucinations, but there was one peeking around a corner much earlier in the episode. I suspect that there’s some kind of remote connection/Alliance network going on (they’re able to share and broadcast footage, after all, even if they need to use tablets for long range comms), so these could be virtual encounters through the secret agent hacking or otherwise accessing Plunger’s brain - like he’s able to get into the skibidi computer to taunt the scientist. But why (other than exposition and dramatic effect)? Is he trolling because their death is part of his scheme (likely imho), or is he just an incorrigible dick who can’t say “good job” without being sinister?

Transmission error/recording error: is the secret agent signal jamming? And what was that stealth mode? Is it related to the secret agent and the camghosts? Probably.

Unless our two ex-main characters are fixed or downloaded (which I doubt but I did notice that the the tagline was “someone”, which is usually singular), ST is doing Anyone Can Die. If this was being approached as a lolrandom meme thing, that wouldn’t be surprising, and that has been the tone of much of the series so far. However, it’s ascended to the point that there’s an actual Skibidi Toilet store. The longevity of comparable meme horror/sci-fi series has seemed to rely on people getting attached to iconic characters, so I wonder if there’s a plan for avoiding Too Bleak, Stopped Caring? My guess is having the elites and titans consistent throughout the plot, but DFB may also be an incorrigible dick and kill everyone. I am a sucker for dramatic deaths though, so I can probably put up with it (just about, did that speaker squeak as they were dying? Oh no ;_;).

On the subject of trolls, one way of interpreting Titan Speaker putting out the fire before completely flattening the scientist was that they wanted to kill them themself, another interpretation was that they were fucking with the scientist by pretending they’d show mercy. Either way, A+++ revenge!

Polycephaly is also super interesting as they don’t really seem to be the TV equivalent of the others factions’ big combat units. There’s only one of them, they can fuck around with teleportation-stuff (nanites? weird science particles?) and swap out their extra bits. They might have a role that’s unique to the TV faction, I already wondered if it’s something like managing TV communications or information flows, and now I think that could include something to do with teleportation too. Maybe running the teleportation-navigation software? In the Dune series, there’s heavily mutated Guild Navigators who guide faster-than-light spaceships and to make sure no one crashes into a planet, and Warhammer 40k has a similar Navigator role to guide space traffic through the Warp using psychic beacons.

About Namor x Shuri

I’m not here to rain on anyone’s parade, ship what you ship and tag appropriately is my fandom motto, if there’s something I don’t want to see then it’s up to me to not engage with that.

I am Namor x Shuri neutral, I don’t love or hate it. I am just here to put this post together to address the Fandom and make sure that some information isn’t lost in the chaos that has become the Namor tags these days.

1. Please do not harass the actors or the production crew. Yes, I am speaking to you, I don’t care how valid you think your ship is, I don’t care if you think it should be canon. Don’t harass the cast/crew or other fans. Don’t do what Reylos and MCU fans have done in the past and just a reminder in case people forgot: Reylos have been extremely racist and harassed the actors and other fans all for the sake of their ship. MCU Fans harassed the fans and the actress Emily VanCamp during the Peggy vs Sharon discourse. I’m not here to argue this and I’m not going to provide receipts, the information and past actions are there if you want to go looking for them. Edit to add: I was speaking in general terms of what I know about these discourses, but I do understand there are Reylo fans who are chill and I was not pointing out anyone specifically. I just wanted to share the observations I knew of in a general way.

2. In a Rollingstone interview Tenoch Huerta has stated that the intentions for the Namor and Shuri relationship was not romantic. Please read the full interview, this role and the movie’s themes mean a lot to the actor beyond shipping.

On another note, some viewers felt that there was romantic chemistry between Namor and Shuri when she was in your city. Did you play that romantic chemistry deliberately? I don’t feel it was a romantic touch [between them]. I think it was more a human, intimate touch. I mean in the history of their kingdoms, the history of their people, they share the same root, and the threat comes from the same place for both of them, for the same reason. They both face threats from Western countries like the United States and France in the story, because of vibranium, natural resources. I think they connect in that aspect.

I mean, when you meet someone and you have a good relationship, whether this person is the gender that you prefer or not, you always have this ambiguous relationship. It’s normal. It’s human. So, I think this happened with both of them. If that can evolve into a romantic relationship or not? I don’t know. It wasn’t our intention. It could happen or not.

The beautiful part of this relationship is, it doesn’t need to be romantic to be deep. It doesn’t need to be romantic to be beautiful and bright and intimate. And this connection between a man and a woman in different levels doesn’t need, necessarily, to end in a romantic relationship. And that’s beautiful, you know? Because I hate the romantic love. I think it’s poison. [Laughs] These characters, they create something… I don’t know. It was magical, but not necessarily romantic.

3. in an interview by Newsweek  with film editor Michael P. Shawver this was written:

On Shuri’s Bond with Namor One thing that has stood out amongst fans since the film was released is Shuri's bond with Namor, and whether there is any potential for romance between the pair. When they first meet, Namor urges Shuri and her mother Queen Ramonda to work with him to retrieve the scientist responsible for making a Vibranium detector, Riri, or face the wrath of Talokan. Later, when Shuri goes to Talokan with Riri, the Talokan leader tells the Wakandan princess of his history, and how his people came to establish the underwater nation after being oppressed by Spanish colonizers. Namor shows Shuri his kingdom and she comes to realize how similar Talokan is to Wakanda and this has inspired some fans to believe a romance could be on the cards for them. Shawver explained that idea was something that was discussed during the film's creation process, and was even something they tested, but ultimately Shuri's bond with Namor felt like it should be something different. "I think what's really interesting is there were takes where there was some connection there," Shawver said. "And at one point in an early cut we discussed like, 'Hey, do we leave it there? Do we just put it out there? Let's just add some complexity to the relationship.' "But, then, you've got to watch out for portraying, for example, Shuri flirting to get what she wants as opposed to being a diplomatic leader and becoming the leader that she needs to be, that she'll get to at the end."So what we ultimately focused on was Namor's line where he says 'only the most damaged people can be truly great leaders', and that's planting the seed of the shared trauma that she realizes at the end [of the film]."But that's essentially who they are, they're trying to lead and be a leader of their nations with all this pain, carrying around this heavy heart." The editor explained that Namor "sort of became [a] big brother" to Shuri "because of the similarity she saw when she saw their world and hearing the story." He added that there is "obviously a shared cultural trauma between his people and her people" and "what she lost at the beginning he started to fill that void, and that felt the most genuine to the characters." Even so, that didn't mean that the editors and Coogler felt the pair were completely unsuited to each other, because Shawver said: "They relate, and I think that anytime we can relate to somebody there can be undertones of that kind of thing, you know what I mean?"Referring to how Namor gave Shuri his mother's bracelet in the film, the editor added: "Honestly, we've got to keep ourselves sane and laugh a lot, especially with the tougher moments or the serious moments, so we would always joke that when he gave her that bracelet they were married now, and she didn't know it."There's a whole different movie where she's like, 'wait, what, I'm the queen of Talokan now?'"

However Production Designer Hannah Beachler has already stated that the interview was taken out of context and that there was no romantic scene between them.  (source, source)

Nope. JS never shot a romantic scene with them.

I think Shawver was taken way out of context.  While there was a curiosity & seemingly a mutual experience of loss, never any scenes that would be considered typical "romance" or physical intimacy filmed. Shawver is a good dude. Media recreating something where there's nothing.

MCUDirect has already updated with an edit to include Beachler’s response. Again please read the full Newsweek article because there is more there about Honoring Chadwick and other things about the film.

4. Yes, there is a lot of scenes cut and I am just as excited to see those scenes released as anyone but please do not do what Snyder Fans did and harass the crew with #releasethetalokancut that I have seen pop up recently. Hopefully once the DVD comes out we will get all the extra scenes and commentary.

5. The Mary Sue wrote an article about their views on the Namor x Shuri ship parallels and Namor’s background (source) the reason I’m linking this is because it also talks about how Namor is not Mexican even though the actor is, but the Character of Namor is a Mayan/Mesoamerican Native/Indigenous. Please remember this in your fics/headcanons. Namor would not speak Spanish, he would speak his native Yucatec Mayan.

6. White/Light washing, there are many new Namor x Shuri Fan Arts out there and many of them have lightwashed Namor’s skintone to the point of him being white. Please ask artists to consider what white/light washing does to harm Fans of Color and also erases Characters of Color. There is NO EXCUSE for this, and artists should do better. I’m not here to call out artists but to point out that the issue is there and to be wary of it. The actor Tenoch Huerta is very vocal about how racism/discrimination against darker skinned actors in Mexico has affected him and other actors like him.

7. Fandom Racism. It’s there, it’s all over the tags, it’s in the fics. I am not only speaking about Namor x Shuri but about the Namor x Reader fics that have exploded in the tags: Namor is NOT a Noble Savage or a Rapist or a Pedophile. The incident with DeltasStories (discussed here) has sparked outrage in fandom however it was inevitable with the way fandom and specifically white fandom engages with Men/Characters of Color in Fandom. Men/Characters of Color are highly sexualized and you all should educate yourselves on why writing a Character like MCU!Namor who has dark skin tones in this manner is highly racist. Comic!Namor also is painted with this Exotic Lover Rapist brush when it comes to the NamorSue ship, even though he has never done anything like that and Comic!Namor does not mess with kids (source). So the next time you want to spread Fanon!Namor stop and think about how you are perpetuating racist stereotypes.

Shipping is for the Fans. Not the Cast/Crew/Canon.

It won’t be canon, because we all know Namor kills Ramonda. However it doesn’t mean fans can’t ship, just be sure to be respectful of the characters, other fans, and the cast/crew. And for the Antis please shut up about the Age Gap, you aren’t helping your crusade. If you don’t like Namor x Shuri then block/blacklist. I shouldn’t have to say this over and over but the “Immortal Lover” trope is an old trope in romance media, the whole Vampire/Human romance genre is built on this as are other types of fantasy pairings, there’s so many ships centered around white/non poc character that have this trope, this is nothing new so don’t pull out this outcry because all you are doing is infantilizing Shuri and making Namor out to be a predator. Namor is NOT a sexual predator.

This post will be updated with edits as time goes by when new information comes out.