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comradekatara · 3 months

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i am very curious about your thoughts on various utena/atla character parallels… every once in a while i see you offhandedly compare like.. korrasami and utenanthy and i’m like HOLD ON this is so true! if you have any further ideas about that i would LOVE to hear them. i honestly don’t know how big the audience is for rgu/atla analysis but i am definitely part of that audience. 😭

yesss i can't believe you're literally the first person to ask me this lately i've been making rgu references on like, every single post i'm shameless!!!!! over the summer i even wrote (like 95% of) an essay comparing sokka and nanami (tldr; they are meat) and i have yet to revisit it (bc i'm scared tbh) but i will post is eventually that is a PROMISE (for an audience of 5 people). also before we go any further my utena blog is @saionjeans and we have fun there. also, i have some utena/atla crossover art here and here, so check that out if you haven't already. the rest of this post will be scattered thoughts because my nanami-sokka essay will be doing a lot of the in-depth analytical work and i don't need to rehash that all now. but also, because i have never not once in my life heard of brevity, i did write a bunch of mini essays anyway, because of course i did.

korrasami and utenanthy: love and abuse

i compared utenanthy to korrasami a couple times, most notably in this post where i talk about how meaningful their relationship is despite being (arguably) underdeveloped, and then in the tags i still have to acknowledge that utena and anthy nonetheless did it better 17 years prior. but i do think that there is so much to be said for utena-korra and anthy-asami as two young women who are both set up to be "special" but in a way that denies and restricts them from their own humanity, cloistering them away from the outside world and making them more vulnerable to abuse. i talked pretty recently about how asami's abuse is really shrugged under the carpet in a way that pisses me off if i think about it for too long. rgu does such an incredible job of gradually exposing that abuse and its effects on society, not as a deviation from the norm (of the nuclear family, of the romance, of the school, etc.) but in fact a common symptom of it. lok does not critique the nuclear family in any meaningful way despite setting up so many different areas through which such a critique could be facilitated (made worse by the fact that atla sets such a fantastic precedent). but anyway, enough about lok (and how she disappoints me).

2. miki & kozue and katara & sokka: siblings and memory

in my sokka-nanami essay i talk about how various characters can be read to embody various analogues, but how my focus in that essay is primarily to draw a parallel between sokka and nanami by using the framework for gender/patriarchal logic rgu establishes. however, i also talk about how azula can be read as a nanami (or even an anthy) figure, as well as how katara and sokka can be read as miki and kozue (katara = miki and sokka = kozue, obviously) (and note that kozue and nanami are significant foils/mirrors too). i mean, they even have a similar light blue (to signify naïveté, innocence, childlike wonder) versus dark blue (to signify cynicism, jadedness, resigned subsumption into harmful norms) color scheme going on. the Special sibling and the afterthought. (although before going forward i do want to be clear that i am in no way alluding to any incestuous undertones wrt katara and sokka, and i would even argue that the allusions to incestuous desire between miki and kozue are more complex and nuanced than simply reducing it to mere perversion. but that's beyond the scope of this ask lol)

i know that some people might bristle at my comparing katara to miki (baby misogynist, little freak) but miki really exemplifies the trope of the "sunlit garden" in the same way that katara exemplifies that trope in atla. miki isn't the narrator of course (akio is), but the central motif of desire staked to an illusory formative memory since lost that defines a character's motivations and self-becoming is first properly introduced (not including the utena meeting dios intro) and defined through his obsession. in the same way, we are introduced to the world of atla through katara's formative memories, her desire that motivates her self-becoming also being an illusory formative memory, as well as a tale she longs to replicate ("the four nations living together in harmony"). katara, like miki, is defined by her naïveté and childlike innocence, her somewhat reductive desire to be noble and heroic, and her need to flatten everything into a clear-cut narrative wherein she is always its heroine. like miki, she resents her sibling for being transformed into a more cynical version of themselves in accordance with society's pressures (in kozue's case, it's the inescapability of patriarchy, whereas in sokka's case, it's... a lot of things), and longs for a time when they were "truly happy" and playing together (playing piano, playing in the snow, you get it).

both kozue and sokka heavily subscribe to patriarchal logic and comport and reduce themselves in accordance with the dictums of a world they consider truly inescapable. kozue seeks power within her limited frame, whereas sokka only seeks power insofar as it allows him to assume his very narrow role of protector, but they both assume those limitations to be ontological and fixed in a way that does not allow them to see past it. however, the lack of empathy both miki and katara refuse to attempt in understanding their worldviews, in no way making an effort to broach that misunderstanding instead of simply letting the chasm between them fester, nonetheless implicates them equally. after all, they too both adhere to their own limited worldviews, only in their worldviews they are fundamentally special and thus beyond reproach. sokka and kozue are both integral aspects of katara and miki's sunlit gardens, and their idealized return to a picturesque nostalgia involves a transformation (or regression) of sokka and kozue into their more innocent former selves. and sokka and kozue are in turn obsessed with katara and miki, the central figure around which their identity and actions revolve.

through this framework, aang thus becomes katara's anthy (aangthy, hehe), as the embodiment of katara's hopeful/nostalgic ideal of heroism, companionship, and the idealized promise of a distant irretrievable past. like anthy with kozue, aang "replaces" katara's longing for the softer, more innocent version of her brother with aang's friendship. like miki with anthy, katara possesses romantic feelings for aang despite his functioning as a replacement for sokka before he became a shell of his former self (or kozue before she became... sexually active). this is because katara, like miki, idealizes the patriarchal narratives that dictate that all significant relationships be either romantic or familial (or both). she wholeheartedly subscribes to this notion, hence why she attempts to subsume everyone who can meaningfully fit into her narrative framework as either a lover (aang, haru, jet, zuko for all of 2 seconds) or a pseudo family member (aunt wu, hama, pakku, toph, etc etc.), replicating those dynamics as many times as she needs to to make them fit within her two dimensional tapestry. and crucially, coming face to face with yon rha subverts that, because she recognizes the messy humanity spilling forth from the neat boxes she puts people in, and must thus contend with her own role in her narrative. of course miki, being a side character and not the narrator, certainly not the hero, does not get this luxury. and he must find a way to grow up anyway.

3. akio and ozai: patriarchy

there's something truly incredible about how both akio and ozai manage to inflict psychological harm upon every single character in their respective shows, even if they never interact with those characters directly. their reach is vast and spindly; it cannot be overestimated. and yet, ozai has only reigned for about six years. akio is only acting chairman of ohtori academy. they are not patriarchy itself, but merely its signifier. and obviously their modes of embodying patriarchy differ in many respects: a school is not a nation (despite the similarities), and a father is not a brother (despite akio being father-like). ozai is defeated by by being stripped of his technology of violence, whereas akio is not "defeated" in a literal sense (although i suppose anthy driving a car through his ghost and exploding him into a cloud of roses does make quite the statement), anthy merely leaves. and yet, in both instances, they are both forced to succumb to their own limited ideology regarding what constitutes power. if ozai lacks firepower, he lacks control over his subjects and the right to sovereignty. if akio's control is challenged, if people realize that they can just leave, that the ends of his world are entirely arbitrary, he no longer has the power to abuse and exploit and use others for his own ends.

the metonymic signification of patriarchy figured through both ozai and akio in dual ways further emphasizes their respective roles. ozai is both king and father, akio is both (acting) chairman and (acting) father. patriarchy dictates every aspect of [a patriarchal] society: from interpersonal dynamics to the nuclear family to the school to the state to the world. what makes both akio and ozai so brilliant in this regard is the fact that their influence is reflected in all these facets. ozai abuses every member of his family individually; controls them as a system; inflicts his (family's) propaganda onto the fn education system, rewriting history with (almost) no one to disprove him; inflicts his imperialist agenda both within the fire nation (ruining local economies through industrialization, forcing citizens to conform to restrictive roles, inflicting violence through occupation) and beyond it; he refers to the world as "my world," as if he is its creator, its owner, or its god. and in many ways, he is. akio similarly abuses everyone interpersonally (most notably anthy, touga, and utena); subsumes utena into his nuclear family system so that she cannot leave; uses the academy as a site of control in which adolescents are forced to comply with socially codified norms and thus made more vulnerable to the influence of adult authority figures (especially those who emphasize their individuality or inherent specialness when compared with the rest of the student body); operates ohtori as a sort of nation wherein patriotism is reified through the use of uniforms, affiliations, sociopolitical hierarchies, and an acting government (the student council); and defines himself as the creator/owner/god of his world. to be end of the world. to embody not an apocalypse, but a cage.

ozai and akio both fashion themselves the entire world, but it also makes them more vulnerable to resistance, to any mode of critique that points out the obvious: no, you're just one person, and the logic you use to dominate others is deeply, noticeably flawed. it's a logic that they exploit but that in turns exploits them, as they have so deeply internalized it that they can no longer immunize themselves against any kind of resistance. ozai claims that there is no room for an air nomad in his world, which is why aang defeating ozai through the pacifist values of his people and not through his greater power (which would nonetheless be subscribing to ozai's logic, and thus letting him win ideologically if not physically) is so crucial in shattering ozai's paradigm. just as utena, as someone who refuses to conform to the strict, arbitrary, and violently enforced norms of patriarchy, can so thoroughly disrupt akio's control by resisting him. just as anthy can by leaving. akio remains in his cozy little coffin, exerting meaningless control to uphold the hollow puppet of his ego.

people sometimes joke about how long it takes for zuko to recognize that the burning off of half his face was "cruel" and "wrong," but it's not that zuko didn't find it painful, it's not that zuko didn't fear his father, it's not that zuko idolized his father beyond reproach. he questioned his cruelty, in fact he did so constantly. he simply saw no other way to live. he had no conception of a world beyond ozai's defined limits, had no choice but to believe ozai's dogma and loathe himself for not sufficiently adhering to it. similarly, people often ask "if anthy could leave all along, then why didn't she?" because she, too, was trapped in a coffin of her own self-loathing. to leave an abuser is not as simple as simply stepping beyond the threshold and never looking back. first, you must locate the threshold. then, you must find the courage to look beyond it. i briefly touched on azula being an anthy figure before. well, i think that she is. just because she has yet to see beyond the threshold does not mean she does not find her limits. and yes, its not triumphant, and yes, her facade that masks her pain and fear is shattered, but ultimately, that breakdown is a good thing for her. because that's her first step to freedom.

4. the sunlit garden as mythmaking events

i talk previously in this post about the motif of "the sunlit garden" in rgu vs what i like to call "a mythmaking event" in atla, and i do want to elaborate on that slightly. i provided a link to a post on my utena blog going into what the sunlit garden "is" for each principal character, and atla has a similar mode of communicating these nostalgic desires and idealizations that motivate self-becoming, largely through flashbacks. for aang, it is quite obvious, as his memories of a before and after are (temporally, although not psychologically) fragmented by an entire century. that disconnect severs the two versions of himself quite neatly. those memories with gyatso and the other air nomads (as well as with child bumi, and with the mysterious kuzon) are his idealized past, his "sunlit garden," whereas the storm is his mythmaking event, the point in his life where his choices collide with his telos. there is no going back.

katara and sokka have a similar sunlit garden, their snowball fight being the last truly happy memory they have before the black snow falls and their childhood innocence is severed from them forever. kya's sacrifice and murder is katara's mythmaking event as she then chooses to assume the mantle of her mother who took her place, decides to become the greatest waterbender possible to compensate for surviving the genocide, and chooses to be a hero so that the collective memory and sacrifices of her people will not be in vain. like utena, she witnesses pain and suffering at a very young aged and is moved to become a hero so as to mitigate that suffering, even if her own formative tragedy can never be rectified. also like utena, she idealizes a seemingly utopian past wherein violence was more covert and thus presented itself as more ideal (the time of princes vs the time of harmony). her naïveté and persistent idealism are both her downfall and her greatest virtue. she refuses to accept the true state of the world to the point of blindness, but it is also that refusal to accept it that allows her to force the world into a kinder shape.

as for sokka, his mother's death was also a formative trauma, but his true mythmaking event is when hakoda leaves for war with all the other men of his tribe. hakoda tells him that "being a man is knowing where you're needed the most, and right now, that's here, protecting your sister." it's not a rose crest ring, but it may as well be. from that moment onward, sokka officially comports his identity into being his sister's protector, which is how he thus defines his manhood. and of course, being his sister's protector means being a martyr, because the precedent for "protecting katara" that has already been established is, well, dying for her. like aang being the avatar and the last airbender and katara being the last southern waterbender, sokka is thus defined by his necessity (ie, usefulness to others) as well as his isolation – not only the "last warrior/man" of the swt, but also via his own process of depersonalization and self-dehumanization as he attempts to fully embody his role as an eventual martyr.

zuko's mythmaking event is, of course, branded onto his face. in fact, zuko essentially assumes both katara and sokka's mythmaking events by first being irrevocably altered by his mother's sacrifice, and then being all the more transformed by his father's decree as he attempts to dictate what kind of man zuko needs to be. his "sunlit garden" is also shown to us in flashes: memories of a (literal!) sunlit garden, of turtleducks, of his mother's gentle guidance, of happier times on ember island, on his father's hand resting on his shoulder with pride instead of malice. it is unclear just how truthful these nostalgic memories are. obviously, his family was never actually happy. ozai had always been exerting control over them, even if his violence was once more obscured. we never see azula's sunlit garden, for instance (although i'd argue that she and zuko possess the same mythmaking events), and i cannot help but wonder whether it's because, like touga, she never actually had one.

finally, some honorable mentions must go to the following: toph, whose sunlit garden is also her mythmaking event, as she learns from badgermoles how to hone her gift and reject the rigid societal impositions that seek to limit, repress, and control her. hama, who never attempts to return to her sunlit garden in the swt with kanna, despite her freedom as established in her mythmaking event of teaching herself to bloodbend; she knows that she is irrevocably altered, and thus she can never go home again. appa, whose sunlit garden, of playing with the other bison at the southern air temple, occurs in conjunction with his mythmaking event of meeting aang and becoming the avatar's animal companion.

all of these events are depicted through flashbacks wherein the consecutive shots between flashback and present day mirror the character who is having the memory in the past and present, overlaying their younger face onto their current face with identical framing. i'm too lazy to compile a bunch of screenshots here, and i couldn't find the post i'd seen previously that had done so, but if you're as familiar with atla as i am, then you already know exactly what i'm talking about. this device is so effective particularly because it exercises restraint. every flashback in atla is crucial because it signifies either a sunlit garden or a mythmaking event that motivates the character its focalizing in the present day. atla is economical with its flashbacks, but not withholding. like with rgu, flashbacks in atla are used with a specificity of purpose, and illustrate their points in clear, precise ways. just because atla is not as overtly metatextual with its central themes of narrativization, nostalgia, idealization, bias, and storytelling, does not mean it is not present, and in fact, overt. ranging from katara's role as narrator to the fire nation propaganda aang attempts to correct in school, the use of memory and illusion is crucial in illustrating how atla functions as a narrative about heroism, legacy, and challenging dominant myths through preserving cultural memory under an imperialist regime.

5. final thoughts

obviously, i could go on forever. there is simply no limit to my ability to unpack and dissect these two shows (hence, my sideblogs dedicated to doing so). i haven't even talked about zuko as an analogue to saionji with regard to their latent homosexuality, misogyny, violence, and struggle to conform to a patriarchal ideal. and i barely touch on katara as an analogue to utena with regard to their naïveté, heroism, myopia, persistence, and somewhat misguided desire for justice (through her terms specifically), although like kozue and nanami as mirrors wrt sokka, her traits that i describe when comparing her to miki also map onto utena in many ways – except of course, utena, unlike miki, is also the "hero," and thus has the same destabilizing revelation regarding the banality of evil that katara undergoes in "the southern raiders." moreover, i only discuss one central motif in utena, because i think the sunlit garden is the trope that maps best onto the thematic work atla is doing, but i'm sure that there are many more frameworks i could compare. and yet, i only have so much time, and only so much space in which to ramble. so hopefully, for now, this suffices. however, if there any specific areas in which you would like me to elaborate, you know that i shall always be happy to do so.

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teecupangel · 3 months

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Hi Teecup!

I hate to add to your pile of asks, but I've just started watching Star Trek TNG and it made me wonder... what about a AssCreed × Star Trek crossover?

To be more precise, the kind of crossover I'm thinking of is one where we take the characters of AC and mix them with the premise of Star Trek, so everyone is hanging out on a starship and getting dragged into random adventures on a weekly basis.

We can separate the Assassins and Templars into Starfleet and Romulans if we want to keep the fight between the two going, though I'm actually more interested in seeing a situation where there is no reason to fight so those factions no longer exist, and everyone is allowed to interact and make friends with whoever they wish.

Also since I want to keep the joke of isekai protagonist Desmond going, maybe he gets transported into this parallel universe after dying and finds himself face to face with the Star Trek versions of all his ancestors, as well as... himself?

As long as you don't mind the long wait to get to your asks, just pile them in my asks hahahaha

We do have this Q is Desmond’s real father idea before because William Miles’s voice actor played Q and that includes Desmond getting sent to Stark Trek ‘verse.

So for this one, we’re going for AC cast in Star Trek but with the caveat that Desmond gets transported there from his previous world just to annoy him (and probably save his life but he can never be sure about that)

For this one, I like the idea that the Templars and Assassins have finally buried the hatchet because one of the main point of Star Trek (especially the early ones) is that humanity managed to unite. Of course, we can still make some of the Templars Romulans if we want to preserve the ‘antagonist’ route but imagine Desmond’s “????” whenever he learns that Templars he knew as super bad news have formed relationships with the Assassins ranging from “I don’t want to ally with them but they’re good at their job” to “besties!”

Desmond would feel a bit weirded out when Ezio just sigh when he learned they would be allying with a ship that has Cesare Borgia as a high ranking officer. He knows that Cesare’s probably on their side but he’s curious why Ezio looked less like he wants to kill him and more like he’s already tired just thinking about dealing with him.

Then he learned the reason why Ezio looked like that.

‘Allegedly’, Ezio slept with Cesare’s sister, Lucrezia Borgia during one of their downtime in the Borgia’s home planet. And nooooo, this wasn’t a case of “You fucked my sister, you must die!” revenge story. That would not have been complicated enough for Ezio’s messy love life. The problem was… Cesare didn’t get to join Ezio and his sister. Yeah, that’s it. Cesare wasn’t angry at Ezio. He was trying to get in Ezio’s pants (“Of course, we’ll invite my sister”) and Ezio is just… he’s done. He’s soooo done with everything. Fuck being the primary communication liaison of the crew. He’s gonna hide in his room and call his BFF back in his homeplanet (there’s a bet going on if said BFF was “the one who got away” – No that was his childhood sweetheart Cristina- or the “he doesn’t know he’s in love with his BFF or vice versa”)

My primary idea for the crew and a little bit of sprinkled lore:

The name of the ship would probably be Aquila to hammer in the bird motif. Another sorta weird names would be names used to talk about a group of eagles like convocation or eyrie or aerie. Or just go for Alamut which some call “Nest of Eagles”.

Edward Kenway is the Captain. He can be Haytham’s father and Ratonhnhaké:ton’s grandfather, a humanoid with long life and a thirst for adventure. In this life, he’s drinking buddies with Alaya and is also friends with Roberts. To make it funnier, he’s actually John Standish’s godfather (who is the son of Roberts and Haytham’s childhood friend)

Haytham is the First Officer because the entire crew (including his father) lives to make his life stressful. He’s married to Kaniehtí:io and their eldest joined the crew. There’s joke of nepotism because of this but it’s all said in a teasing manner because the Kenway men gets the job done. He trained Charles Lee (and the rest of his Templar Order) when they were fresh new ‘graduates’ so they like to call him Master Kenway.

Ratonhnhaké:ton is the Navigator and is being trained to be the Helmsman by the current Helmsman Adéwalé. He can usually be found talking to Ezio or Aveline. He’s really good at combat so he mostly join offworld missions which is why…

Aveline is the second Navigator in case Ratonhnhaké:ton is offworld. She’s also their offworld liaison if Ezio is not available. Sometimes, she also takes over the Communications Officer’s jobs. The crew is not entirely sure what her actual job is??? (Her parents divorced and her mother is alive. She and her stepmother are close as well and her stepmother is the Captain of another ship)

Adéwalé is the Helmsman and he had been ‘sailing’ with Edward for so long that Edward rarely had to give specific orders. Adéwalé is already doing what Edward wanted. It gives Haytham a headache because ‘communication’ is important, especially for reports and such. Adéwalé takes Ratonhnhaké:ton under his wing and Ratonhnhaké:ton calls him Uncle Ade.

The Science (technically called Research and Development Department) Division is under Altaïr’s complete control and no Kenway can go against him. He wants to go offworld to research one thing or another, he’s joining the offworld team. He wants them to take a pit stop in one of the colonies or world for materials or something, the ship would change course. Desmond didn’t even question it when he heard of it. He just said “… yeah, that sounds about right.” and moved along. The funny thing? Altaïr isn’t the Chief Science Officer. That’s the long suffering Malik Al-Sayf. Altaïr’s official position is “Second Officer”. He has an academic rivalry going on with Robert de Sablé and he still sends letter to his grandfather who is a high ranking government official of the United Federations of Planet.

Ezio is the Chief Communications Officer and he’s always part of the offworld teams (unless something comes up). He comes from a long line of Starfleet officers. His siblings are stationed in other ships and his father is a member of the United Federations of Planet.

Shay is the Security Chief and it is the second most stressful job (after Haytham) trying to keep the peace and order of the ship (okay, that’s an exaggeration). Most of the time, he just makes sure everyone is okay and safe whenever shit hits the fan. He’s pretty chill and is Haytham’s drinking buddy. He still writes to his mentor Achilles who taught him everything and to his childhood friend who joined another ship Liam.

Arno is part of the Chief Tactical Officer and he has a close professional relationship with Evie and Altaïr mainly because those two takes care of weapon upgrade… and other… uuuhh… ‘stuff’ their missions might need. He has a fiancee who is a high ranking officer of Starfleet.

Evie is the Chief Engineering Officer and is Altaïr’s number one supporter. Edward once joked that if Altaïr was to mutiny, they would be fucked because Evie would be first in line in shutting down all the engines and any security procotol they have in place. Ezio would like to stress it was more of a ‘mentor and student’ kind of thing. Desmond learned that Altaïr also had his hands on the Engineering Department and is like “yeah, that tracks too.” Evie has a rivalry going on with Lucy Thorne and her twin would just comment that they should sleep together once and get it over with.

Jacob is usually the captain of the offworld team unless a higher ranking officer joins then he’s the vice-captain. Close to Arno because he’s always asking for new ‘toys’ to play with. May or may not have a son who may or may not be adopted called Jack. The crew isn’t sure if he’s Jacob’s son or his protege.

I’m missing a few more main characters and the modern day characters so uuuhh… they’re there, I just couldn’t think of a position for them XD.

(I kept their species vague so you can make them any race you want. I will suggest that Altaïr be half-Vulcan though because he feels very Vulcan-ish but, honestly, pick whichever feels right for you or what would make you go “you know what would be fun”? XD)

#isus are q's species in this one i guess?#oh god now i have to tag everyone XD #ask and answer #teecup writes/has a plot #fic idea: assassin's creed #assassin's creed #desmond miles #altaïr ibn la'ahad #ezio auditore #ratonhnhaké:ton #connor kenway #haytham kenway #edward kenway #adewale #aveline de grandpre #shay cormac #arno dorian #jacob frye #evie frye

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