I want to put my two cents into the whole “ant-dark fiction” debate because I think it ultimately boils down to people not being able to understand viewpoints outside their own, ON BOTH SIDES.

Resently I saw a post of someone saying something along the lines of “please stop writing fanfics of woman being r*ped” and I saw a bunch of people in the comments and reblog a essentially saying “welp, guess tumblr isn’t for you” and I think that’s just in bad faith.

People are allows to not like fanfic the glamorizes SA, HOWEVER, on the other side, people are allowed use fanfic as a coping mechanism or a safe way to explore fantasies. I personally think that because Tumblr isnt an app like TikTok with an algorithm, meaning in order to consume content you have to search it out, I think it’s ultimately your responsibility to read tags and make sure you’re safe. You can’t police everyone because it makes you uncomfortable. On that same note, if you write dark fiction you need to recognize how putting your kinks/ fantasies out their can effect people, because contrary to popular belief, it does effect people.

I hate how Proship/ Antiship discourse has runined fandom spaces. I hate how people see the discourse as black and white, it you support this one thing you’re a terrible person, if you don’t support this one thing you’re great. I hate how the discourse has ruined fanfic as an art form and has discouraged people from using fanfic as a way of dealing with their trauma, AND I also hate how people are unwilling to recognize that the things they put onto the internet is going to effect people. Controversial take, but fiction does effect reality.

It effects reality when you put posters of your favorite character on your wall. It effects reality when you cry because your favorite character died. It effects reality when your reading fanfic or drawing fanart of your favorite character. It effects reality when you sit here on your bed writing all this shit for most people not to care. If fiction didn’t effect reality then most fiction wouldn’t be loved today. Fiction effecting reality isn’t always a bad thing, people just like to paint it that way. But it can also really harm people who might not be in good mental shape. I KNOW that yandere behaviors are bad in real life, that’s why I can read Yandere fanfiction and be perfectly fine. But there are actual people on this app acting like Yanderes, talking about how they want to hurt themselves or other people for their “love.” That is fiction effecting reality in a negative way.

Either way, I think we need to start understanding and acknowledging viewpoints outside our own. Instead of rushing to say “we’ll actually I use non-con fanfic to cope from my on SA” any time a person slightly critiques dark fiction, actually take the five seconds to understand their viewpoint and why they might be upset/ uncomfortable when you post about how badly you want to be non-coned by some hot anime boy. It’s weird, especially if you’ve gone through that first hand. It isn’t glamorous or sexy, it’s traumatizing and people are allowed to fee that way. People are also allowed to use their blog to explore dark tropes in a safe way with people that also want to explore those tropes, and commenting on a post that clearly says DEAD DOVE DO NOT EAT with “how dare you write fanfic about SA, you’re a terrible person!!!!” Is also not helpful in any way.

Tdlr: other people exist that aren’t you. They experience and deal with trauma in different ways and no one should be shamed for that. Pro/Anti-ship discourse has ruined fandom spaces forever, and fiction does effect reality and that’s not a bad thing.

Fun fact: making fictional art, even if it’s of ~a fetish~ or whatever, doesn’t really mean shit for the irl artist involved, or what they actually believe in/live their personal life like. Online, you only get to know what they show you, and that irl person doesn’t owe you a damned thing. If you truly believe bad shit is happening, then you better be the one finding true evidence to back up your claims, because drawings/personal opinions posts (aka headcanons)/stories are not real evidence. Could they give you some idea about somebody’s general personality/attitude? Maybe. But fiction doesn’t dictate reality and the morals therein. That’s the whole point of it. To put yourself in the character’s not real moral dilemma/position/whatever to escape your own lmao.

This post is not about deliberately, or even unintentionally/accidentally including content in art that is stigmatizing/harmful to irl groups of people.

"Fiction isnt reality itself, but it does affect reality, so you have to be mindful of your own consumption and how you interact with it after, especially if you're going in a fandom setting" is not a crazy statement to understand, and yet it feels like it on the internet

Is looking down on "trashy" novels like a colleen hoover book classist?

I see this comment a lot on tiktok, and I don't think so myself. There are ways to expand your taste and circle as someone with less education, who is not as well read, who is poor, someone who is using a second language or as someone who is young.

Sally Rooney's novels are similarly accessible in terms of price, availability, and they're written in plain english. They're also a "young adult" romance, but cover some more advanced themes like self discovery and provide more meaningful dialogue on relationships and mental health. You do not need to read the western literary canon/classics to be well read or refine your tastes (there are significant class divides and accessibility issues in relation to some of these texts).

There is poetry available free online that contains more advanced literary devices, meaningful content, and food for thought than the wattpad-esque smutty fiction of booktok.

Reading purely for entertainment is still reading. And there is always a place for books that are just entertainment but some texts in terms of complexity, meaningful content, and the art of the writing some texts are above others.

i honestly think anti/proship shit is so terminally online and dont like engaging in it whatsoever but its just kind of crazy to me that people can make exploitative porn of, for example, literally children and then they act like suddenly youre the bad guy for being like wow what the fuck i don't want to see that 😭 like i promise you if any random person on the street saw your twitter account they'd think youre a predator

Tw for vague csa/abuse mention

Sometimes, yeah, I "get off to" the fics I write. And I definately like hearing that other people enjoy them, because I think everyone deserves things they enjoy and it truly makes me happy to provide a little of that for others.

But the reason I write what I write is so my brain has a place to spin out scenarios to try to make it okay. And by that I don't mean the things that happened to me. By that I mean the fact that I exist as someone who those things happened to. The fact that I live every day with the rammifications of one man's evil decision, wrapping themselves up and weaving themselves into every aspect of my life. And when I write I come at it from all angles- including sexual because I was a prematurely-sexually-awakened kid and that can make a person's relationship with sex a little confusing to say the least- to try to figure out how to live with it.

Fic writers don't write to normalize abuse. We write to normalize suvival. And survival isn't always pure and pretty and fluffy. I was not healed by a wholesome loving relationship, I was not healed by friendship or forgiveness or by trying to banish all darkness from my life and mind. I am healing myself by looking it in the eye. By getting elbows-deep in the darkness, letting it coat my skin again now that I am grown and safe. By forgiving myself for the tracks it left in my mind and body, accepting that it is part of my story and trusting myself to keep me safe.

That's what I'm trying to normalize. That it's good you survived, and it's okay to be "messed up by it". You are normal, and your existence isn't bad or tainted or dirty or wrong. You are good and innocent. You deserve to be here and you deserve a full, satisfying life with all the things you enjoy in it.

Fuck dude (neuter) I used to (during high school) write self insert RPF to cope with ongoing c-PTSD from many angles. It kind of fed into a folie a deux between me and my at-the-time boyfriend, and now I'm happy with just fictional people, but sometimes... man sometimes you just gotta remember the bandom days from whence you (I, this is probably so specifically a me thing) came.

So many people claim to support people with mental illness, trauma, etc but then turn around and go "ewwwww, you write RPF?" or" Ewwww, you write (insert weird fanfiction thing here)?"

My pal (theoretical reader)-- where the fuck do you think the motivation to write these things is coming from?

🫂Glad you're in a better place, now, anon. Much love and respect to your past self.

Not to get controversial on main or whatever but while yes, I do generally believe that people should be able to ship whatever the hell they want and not get harassed, I will still never call my self a proshipper. Like sorry man I'm not associating myself with a bunch of people who chant "Kill the cop inside your head!" with zero irony, take over POCD spaces with their fucking discourse, refuse to listen to victims of sexual assault/incest, and turn their heads at every shred of evidence that no actually, fiction can in fact affect reality. Like yeah don't get me wrong I've heard my fair share of stories of antishippers doing kind of shitty things, but I'd rather align myself with supposed "puriteens" than a group of immature people who chant that "they get off from the haterz bc degration kink!!1!!!111!!" over actually responding to criticism.

Do you support dark fiction or not? I don't want to be following somebody who thinks like that if you do.

Dude what do you classify as dark fiction because some people would say I write dark fiction. I assume you’re talking about the earlier post I made, so like I said, it’s complicated.

I can’t control what people write, but I personally don’t like a lot of the stuff that falls under dark fiction (non-con, incest, SA, etc). However, I also don’t believe in harassing people if they write dark fiction.

And either way dude, I write yandere fics, I assumed for the longest time those just automatically count as dark fiction, regardless what’s in it. But maybe I’m wrong.

Unfollow me if you want, but you’re going to have to make that decision yourself. I’m not going to give you a black and white answer, sorry.

//cw- self harm and substance abuse mentions

“Using dark fiction to cope is self harm!”

Self harm is self destructive by nature. It actively causes physical and/or mental harm to the person. That’s why self sabotage is also a form of self harm. Self harm can be done by simply trying to get yourself fired from your job for no other reason than the fact that you feel like you don’t deserve it. It can also be in the form of becoming distant from loved ones. Self harm isn’t always about hurting yourself physically, but I don’t feel like I need to really explain that part too much. If you do something that you know will cause mental or physical harm to you, but do it anyway, it’s self harm.

It’s true that not all coping mechanisms are healthy, but it really depends on how someone is using the coping mechanism as well as the coping mechanism itself. If someone is smoking weed to cope, that’s valid and there’s tons of research that tells us that it can be beneficial. However, if someone is using weed to cope, is having panic attacks because of their personal reaction to weed, and is struggling financially because of how much weed they are smoking, then it’s absolutely not healthy. Specifically for that person though. But I can’t tell someone how to live their lives. I can recognize it’s unhealthy and give people advise, but their struggle with their mental health isn’t any less valid because they are not coping in a healthy way. I’m also not going to assume that everyone who smokes weed to cope will react to weed the same way, and have the same financial struggles, that this individual is experiencing.

I feel like a lot of fantis who cry about how exposing yourself to dark fiction is self harm got it wrong though. The people who use dark fic to cope are able to gain something positive from it. It is what works for them. It’s self expression in the form of art and I think that’s beautiful. However, I see so many fantis purposely exposing themselves to dark content that’s properly tagged. They know what’s going to happen, they read the warnings, they know how they will react to this sort of content, but they still choose to expose themselves to content that they know they’ll have a bad reaction to. This, by deffiniton, is self harm. It baffles my mind that fantis keep pointing fingers at people who use dark fic to cope, meanwhile, they’re pointing three more at themselves. If anyone is harming themselves with dark fiction, it’s fantis.

I’m concerned by this honestly, if anything else. Mostly because I’m 90% sure most fantis don’t realize it’s self harm. I’m positive that fantis are projecting onto those who do use dark fiction to cope though. Mostly because they can’t imagine getting any benefits out of this coping mechanism, only negative reactions to it, and assume it must be true for everyone else too. I feel bad for them, too a point, as I’m obviously not excusing a lot their actions they do in response to seeing said dark fiction. But then again, starting drama with people and risking getting doxxed and harassed could be a form of self sabotage too. Overall, I’d argue that being involved in pointless internet drama and arguments is self harm just because of how much of a negative affect it has on people. Surrounding one’s self in constant negativity is definitely not healthy.

(Side note: anyone who harasses and has doxxed a fanti still isn’t cool imo, but that’s not the point of this post lol. But when you start drama online, it’s always a risk regardless and I wanted to mention it)

Normal Batman fans: I don't want to engage with parts of canon in which my fave is an abusive asshole. I choose to engage with other stories instead, and I ignore stories that I dislike.

Nasty toxic Batman fans: Ooh, Bruce is being totally gross again, don't mind if I do~

Good Dad Bruce™ stans: Yes, I fully acknowledge that every single one of Bruce's kids is deeply—at times suicidally—traumatized by his parenting failures in canon, but he is NOT a bad parent! Bruce LOVES his family. Sometimes COMPLICATED PARENTS make their children feel WORTHLESS and ISOLATED, and then don't do anything to fix it! It's totally NATURAL, Bruce is just a COMPLICATED parent! He's COMPLICATED! Bruce LOVES his family. COMPLICATED, I say! NOT ABUSIVE! Would an abusive parent put a hand on his child's shoulder in a vague display of warmth once every few years??? Hm??? Yeah, I DIDN'T THINK SO, YOU STUPID ABUSE VICTIMS!! Bruce LOVES his family. He does nice things—why are you ignoring all the nice things that he's done? He is just an IMPERFECT person, he has made some teeny tiny mistakes repeatedly with 5+ separately acquired children over a twenty-year period. Bruce is just a regular IMPERFECT human being—which means that you critics are the UNREASONABLE MONSTERS imposing PERFECTIONIST standards on a poor innocent middle-aged baby adult man! Bruce LOVES his family. How could we expect exceptionally privileged hyperintelligent parents NOT to regularly use their position of power to make 4-6 children feel inadequate, unsafe, and alone?? What ridiculously high standards! Bruce LOVES his family.

What's an anti-anti? Or an anti for that matter

Oh my friend I am so sorry to introduce you to the shitpile that is antishipping discourse

Anti is short for "antishipper", which is someone who believes certain types of ships are immoral and nobody should ship them or engage with media about them. Exactly what types of ships that includes varies (because morality will always be vague at best and you can't meaningfully categorise anything into "always good" and "always bad"), but people usually take issue with incest, ships involving one or more minors, age gaps, etc.

I consider myself a proshipper/"anti-anti" purely because I think this kind of discourse is extremely inane and potentially harmful.

Antis tend to say "problematic" ships "normalise" harmful dynamics in real life, ignoring that exploring these ideas in fiction is a safe way of engaging with darker topics and sometimes people do so to process personal trauma. Personally I've found that reading fanfiction about dark topics made me wayy more emotionally prepared to handle discussion of them in real life.

And, as I said, it's nearly impossible to draw a solid line between what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed. Age of consent is an arbitrary number that's chosen because legally you need a strict number if you're going to enforce the law, but a person 1 year older and 1 year younger than the age of consent aren't actually that much different. Plus the law varies from country to country, but antis tend to choose the US age of 18 because the US dominates the internet. Age-gaps between two non-minor characters get even more blurry!! And let's not forget that a ship between two men is way more likely to be flagged as pedophilia than a ship between a man and a woman. Imo if you can't make a concrete rule about it there's no point in making a rule at all.

Plus it's fiction, and not even mainstream fiction, so it's hardly gonna cause any significant shift in real life culture. These ships get criticised to hell and back in fan spaces and people get properly harassed over it, but there are plenty of professional writers portraying these things in well known media and don't get much flack for it at all - because it's way easier to tear down a fan, your equal, than a creator. It seems to me that the problem isn't really "normalising" these behaviours, because if that was the case mainstream media would be a much bigger contributor than fandom

For some reason, toxic/abusive ships are less commonly criticised despite being objectively harmful to the characters involved, and incest is the one people hate the most despite it being (imo) the one least likely to cause actual harm to the characters. Also depictions of rape and sexual abuse are usually considered off limits but you rarely get the same criticism of, say, depictions of murder. The sexual aspect of the topic seems more important than the actual harm.

AND THEN there's the fact that antis generally only argue against the ships that make them personally feel uncomfortable. Different people have different boundaries for what they consider too far, and I lose my shit every time I see antis shipping something I know other antis claim is the devil. And often the whole thing gets coopted by someone who doesn't like people shipping characters A and B because they ship B and C. ("You can't ship these unrelated characters because they're sibling-coded which makes the ship basically incest" is something I've seen a truly bonkers amount of times)

So yeah. That's the whole mess. Like I said I dont really care about whether or not antis follow me? I'm proship purely because I don't think this is a conversation that needs to be had at all. Like who cares But, go wild, romanticise the hell out of the most repulsive things!! It's nobody else's business but yours. But if I see a mutual who followed me first reblogging "any proshippers who follow me should explode and die teehee ^-^" ONE MORE TIME I might actually explode

This comment on YouTube sums up the antiship vs proship discourse quite well.

what is a pro shipper?

a more discourse-ized version of saying that you're "ship and let ship"/"don't like; don't read" aka you don't care what people ship because it's fiction/fanfiction and that's not the same thing as endorsing an unhealthy dynamic irl. basically pro + shipping (formed in opposition to fandom antis - people who are against "bad" ships.

on twitter/tiktok, you may see people say it means that you're a "problematic shipper" - this is false and purposeful misinformation that has made fandom newbies (young teens mostly) think that all pro-shippers like problematic ships, which isn't true. it simply means you're against harassment over ships and against censorship of fiction, especially regarding sexual content in fandom spaces.

hope that explains:)

is captive prince just like ai no kusabi but fantasy or something

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