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wackus-bonkus-maximus · 4 months

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Same anon who just asked about why you placed Adrien as a 7 instead of a 2, only to look deeper in the reblogs of your ML enneagram post and see you already answered it haha!

In friendly defense of 2!Adrien, I’d argue that his reactions to being stressed coming off as more of a 7 rather than a 2 is actually a perfect reflection of the effects of his abuse; it’s fear that drives his non-confrontation tendencies rather his own nature. I think Risk highlighted that a bit in revealing how Adrien does desire confrontation, even if he doesn’t act on it.

(I have always found it interesting to consider the role that trauma/neurodivergency plays in shaping a character’s personality, since it’s one of the flaws I feel most personality assessments can’t really account for.)

I also think Chat’s arguments with LB were more like to be confrontational than avoidant (thinking of the times he’s called her out and his romantic pursuit being the primary indicators), up until she became the Guardian. So then with S4, I’d consider it to be a gradual relationship shift that leads to Chat no longer feeling safe and secure enough in his position to confront her the way he once did, which is why he only tries a bit in Kuro Neko before running, and then doesn’t try at all in Strikeback.

I hope this doesn’t come off as too preachy or anything, just wanted to share my 2¢! Cause either way you slice it, your Adrien has always been brilliantly written and incredibly in-character to me, so you’ve clearly got a rock solid understanding of his character. ❤️

hello november anon and sorry for the delay! thank you so much for the ask and also for going back and looking through my prev posts. you know my teacher heart loves it when you do the readings! 😌 also you're definitely not the only one who believes adrien is a 2 rather than a 7! and while i know there are good arguments for both sides, i'll explain in depth my position on adrien's personality.

part 1 of the ask:

so here are the reasons i think adrien IS an enneagram type 7

adrien's motivation seems like that of a 7 to me: he wants to experience everything and be satisfied in every way he can. if he had a disney princess "i want" song, it would be "i want to go to school, i want to make friends, i want adventure in the great wide somewhere., i want to have fun."

the literal first shot of him in the show (if we use origins as a starting point) is adrien running away. nathalie asks him to please reconsider, he knows what his father wants, and adrien says, "but this is what i want to do." according to the enneagram institute, "sevens do not see themselves as the center of a community or family, but as members of a free-floating band of fellow adventurers whose own enjoyment is enhanced by being with others." going to school and having a new experience with new people is what's going to enhance adrien's enjoyment of life - not being the center of his family unit or the apple of his father's eye.

a 2's motivation would be to be as loved as possible and to make themselves neeed by those they most care about. while adrien definitely shows a desire to be loved and needed, especially by ladybug, i think his primary desire is for experience, and it's this from which all his actions- not just characteristics - are based. take for example his reaction to getting his miraculous vs marinette's (also in origins):

adrien is excited and intrigued and ready to go, as a 7 would be when offered a new experience - and a new way to satisfy their desire to try everything. marinette, as a 1, is quite the opposite: she is being put in a situation where she must do something right or fail, and therefore is stressed tf out. while marinette's motivation to be good/perfect fuels her anxious reaction, adrien's motivation to experience everything and be satisfied fuels his thrilled and slightly reckless reaction. that's why he charges out into battle without listening to all the instructions; his motivation was to escape the restraints of his life and try something new.

in growth, enneagram 7's take on the positive traits of 5's. in stress, they take on the negative traits of 1's. i have seen adrien exhibit these behaviors throughout the show on many occasions!

according to the enneagram institute, "Sevens have fear about their inner world. There are feelings of pain, loss, deprivation, and general anxiety that Sevens would like to stay clear of as much as possible. To cope with these feelings, Sevens keep their minds occupied with exciting possibilities and options— as long as they have something stimulating to anticipate, Sevens feel that they can distract themselves from their fears." therefore, while one can argue that adrien's wealth of knowledge and fun facts is a result of everything gabriel has forced him to learn (mandarin, piano, fencing, medieval horse colors), we can assume he at least was interested in it - and that seeking new knowledge like a 5 kept him from lingering in his sadness.

"i'll help you learn mandarin marinette" "i'll show you how to fence marinette" "most people think henry iv's white horse was white my lady" "do you need subtitles my lady i speak several languages"

now as to how adrien moves to the low parts of type 1 during the show: i think the main examples of this are the instances he adopts rigid, critical, and judgemental characteristics, which is potentially unpleasant for anyone who has to be around him.

first up, adrien's akumatized forms: chat blanc, ephemeral, celesticat

i bring up the akumas because, though adrien isn't in his right mind (by hawkmoth's akumas), they are examples of adrien being in extreme stress.

as chat blanc, adrien wants to either right the world or destroy it for being wrong - the critical supreme judgement an unhealthy 1 is capable of. he lashes out when contradicted, and is quite ruthless even to marinette, who he loves, in the name of executing judgement.

as ephemeral, adrien seeks to control time. (however, this is probably the weakest example because adrien was being amok-controlled in this instance and was acting on shadow moth's will, not his own.)

i include celesticat because while this is an example of a "good" akumatization, adrien was still under so much stress that an akumatization was able to take place. yet even while being in "good" stress, adrien still shows characteristics of 1: perfectionism, righteousness, taking control of the situation. he literally turns into a pure white angelic being, an embodiment of perfection. it's what he believes he has to do in order to salvage the situation. it's one of the more healthier moves from 7 to 1 i have seen depicted in media and is entirely plausible concept under the enneagram's theory! this just goes to show the depth and richness of his character.

next, we will discuss adrien's various alter egos:

cat walker

i've said it before and i'll say it again; cat walker is another move from 7 -> 1.

as chat noir, adrien is at the height of his 7-ness. he enjoys the freedom that his miraculous powers and secret identity gives him, and uses it as a means of escape from the regular constraints of his life and obligations. then in kuro neko when ladybug slights him, she denies him the fulfilment and satisfaction in reaching his full potential as chat noir (e.g., being of equal importance on the team as her) that he should be allowed. of course he becomes hurt and angry! she's stepping on his core desire in life.

according to enneagram coach dr. tom lahue (my favorite enneagram guy ((also a 7)), "type 7's typically deal with anger by trying to avoid it or deflect it. that really is the anger type of a 7 - deflective. deflecting things away." that's what i believe cat walker is: a stress reaction, a deflection of his anger with ladybug. he deflects his painful emotions into something he thinks is positive; a new start.

adrien is usually so joyful and optimistic, but this was a huge blow for him. dr. tom says the best way for a 7 to handle this anger is to be "real and genuine" when coming to terms with it, what does adrien do instead? he turns to a new alter ego. he chases the experience of fulfillment, only he does so by adopting a persona who is serious and perfectionist. obviously this was neither what adrien or ladybug needed, and that is because cat walker is a stress reaction who adrien cannot sustain without continued levels of unhealthy self-denial. this is the hardest he has gone to 1 in the show and what it took to snap him out of it was a level of reflection, analysis, and objectivity (that this was an unhealthy behavior) indicative of a type 5 - and which shows his progression to growth.

2. aspik

one can argue that aspik is more proof of adrien being a 2 than a 7 actually, as his motivations for becoming aspik were to woo ladybug. however, the stress response of a type 2 is to move to the negative qualities of type 8, which is to lash out at those who they believe have taken them for granted.

according to the enneagram institute,

"Average to unhealthy Twos seek validation of their worth by obeying their superego’s demands to sacrifice themselves for others. They believe they must always put others first and be loving and unselfish if they want to get love. The problem is that “putting others first” makes Twos secretly angry and resentful, feelings they work hard to repress or deny. Nevertheless, they eventually erupt in various ways, disrupting Twos’ relationships and revealing the inauthenticity of many of the average to unhealthy Two’s claims about themselves and the depth of their “love.”

as aspik, adrien was never resentful of ladybug for taking him for granted or making him feel rejected. as aspik, his goal was never to make himself needed by her. as aspik, he maintained some extreme levels of optimism that ignored the rational conclusion that he should give up for several thousand time loops. as aspik, he was able to let go and displace his hopes in himself to someone else - and run off to his responsibility as chat noir with high spirits (though i'm sure the ladrien kiss helped)

3. griffe noire

this has got to be the most stressful stress reaction i've seen on adrien. and you might say "but wackus he looks nothing like a type 1" and i say "JUST HOLD ON

going back to dr. tom's analysis on type 7's in anger, he says, "7's typically express their anger indirectly, e.g., through sarcasm, like 5's - like 6's sometimes... but they quickly try to move on and reframe into a more positive way." griffe noire, rather than telling jokes and puns to lighten the mood, mocks and ridicules poor toxinelle who has not convinced me she doesn't have a crush on him. 1's actually do the same thing when they are unhealthy; they criticize and blame and nag others for not being up to par, and by directing his anger at his situation onto toxinelle, griffe noire is doing the same.

dr tom goes on to say, "in some cases [7's] might take impulsive actions to try to free themselves from this feeling of being trapped... engaging in frenetic escapism in behaviors or addictions or substances to try to distance themselves from those who are frustrated with them... or their own anger/pain in life." we have seen griffe noire engage in multiple frenetic behaviors while running amok (haha), all of which are clearly attempts to redirect his pain and anger/ keep it from consuming him. for example, griffe noire takes chat noir's cataclysm to the chest as though it's a game. for another, he openly threatens to destroy the entire world with his super cataclysm. and of course, he is constantly abusing his miraculous by over-exerting his powers in a way only adults should. yet all of these destructive behaviors are still adrien's way of escaping his normal life, and his everyday pain. it's almost like his self-destruction is his addiction.

and yet by the end, it took the introspection of type 5 for griffe noire to realize that his behavior was unhealthy. he observed, he listened, he showed an inquisitiveness that brought him back from the brink. and he also upgraded his outfit so if that isn't a type 7 path to growth i don't know what is!

now i know i won't have convinced everybody, so i just want to drop this section from the enneagram institute's text on misidentifying 2's and 7's:

Although both types are gregarious and enjoy being with people, their interpersonal styles are noticeably different. The Two... would like to be the heart and soul of a family or community, the best friend or confidant everyone comes to for attention, advice, and approval. Twos want to be significant to others and on intimate terms with them, although sometimes they go too far, meddling too much and being too solicitous to make sure they are needed.

adrien is not focused on being needed by anybody, not even ladybug (although due to his romantic interest in her, i can understand why people think so). being the heart and soul of the team is not what motivates him; primarily, i think he just likes having all the experiences he wouldn't otherwise get to have without being chat noir.

By contrast... Sevens do not see themselves as the center of a community or family, but as members of a free-floating band of fellow adventurers whose own enjoyment is enhanced by being with others.... Sevens may thus exhibit a certain generosity, although their motives may well have less to do with helping needier friends than with making sure that they themselves have a good time by having others around.

this isn't to say that adrien is just focused on having a "good time." i see that his enjoyment is amplified when he is surrounded by people he loves and cares for. he is motivated to have good experiences, and be fulfilled by trying everything, and becoming close to people and forming loving relationships is just a happy byproduct of that.

now there ARE several caveats to my analysis which provide potential arguments against typing adrien as a 7 - and which i can touch on briefly before i close:

adrien's abuse: i understand that trauma and anxiety can affect personality deeply. i'm not qualified to speak on this, or on how it should or shouldn't affect any personality type. i can only say that i think adrien has acted pretty consistently under stress as far as the show depicts

inconsistent characterization: i think we can all agree that ml won't be winning any awards for its consistency in characterization. which i know sounds contradictory to what i just said about how it depicts adrien under stress, but i think there IS a lot of discrepancy in this show and over the course of 9 years with different teams of writers all trying to execute one person's vision, inconsistencies are bound to happen.

thank you again for the ask, anon, and thank YOU if you have read all the way through! tell me your thoughts, if you make it down here - whether you agree/disagree or are just nodding along and letting me indulge in my enneagram brainrot! this is an entirely in-good-faith interpretation of mine, and i'd love to see other opinions if you have them!

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copdog1234 · 9 months

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Man, I was watching the movie and the entire time I was thinking "Wow. This would've been so much more satisfying in the show" because the show has earned it. The show's writing is far from perfect, it has many, many flaws, but my god is it far better than Miraculous Awakening will ever be. And I'll tell you why.

I will preface by saying, yes, an hour and a half movie has way less time than a TV show with several episodes to build up characters and relationships, so time constraints will make it so we may not get as much depth in the on-screen relationships.

You know what, though? The time they spent playing mediocre songs could've been used better to show us all the things the songs had to outright tell us. Cause that was the problem.

The movie sure liked telling us how the characters were feeling. It rarely showed it. Like could you tell me why movie Marinette liked Adrien? Because I couldn't. What did he do to earn her affection beside look pretty? Why did we only get a montage of them getting closer instead of actually seeing it? Or how we never really see much of Gabriel and Adrien's struggles with the loss of Emilie, we simply get glimpses. How am I supposed to feel anything when Gabriel stops being Hawk Moth when this movie showed us literally nothing of their strained relationship? And then there's Gabriel's claim that he did absolutely everything to get Emilie back. No he didn't. He did actually nothing. He freed a couple of criminals and then akumatized himself. That's it. That's all he did.

Could you tell me why Alya decided to befriend Marinette? Could you tell me why Adrien "who decided not to get close to anyone" was friends with Nino? Could you tell me why Chloe was so confident Adrien had any interest in her when they never actually interacted?

And then there wasnt enough explanation on how anything that we should've been told worked. Could anyone really tell me how these versions of the miraculous work? Or why Master Fu was in possession of them? Or why they really chose their holders? Could you tell me if the kwami had much personality and were necessary?

Like, I will say, there were funny moments, the animation was nice, and there were cool set pieces, but where was the substance?? It was nonexistent. If you don't watch the show, would you know or feel anything for what was going on in this movie?

Cause even for me, who does watch the show, I didn't.

Think about this. The show has even faked out multiple reveals to me and every time I was hyped and screaming, I have read fanfiction of these same to characters falling in love and confessing every which way and I've swooned, but we get reveals and love confessions that are real and permanent in this movie and I felt. Nothing.

It's okay if yall disagree with me, but I just needed to get this off my chest. I'm hard on this movie because I wanted it to be good because I love the characters and story from the show.

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adrinoir · 9 months

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The Miraculous Movie was different than the series…and that’s okay!

I watched the movie this morning and loved it! I think it’s important to talk about the changes that were made and what impact they had.

How the characters were rewritten

There definitely was a difference in how the characters were written in the movie, and some of the redevelopment of characters was really good!

Gabriel was by far the one who had the best redevelopment of his personality. Gabriel in the series is awful, as we all know.

In the series, he barely gives a shit about his own son, like there is absolutely nothing redeemable about his character. In every “what if” episode and the season 5 finale, Gabriel does not show any regret to hurting people, including his own son.

However, in the movie, Gabriel actually makes a better attempt to communicate with Adrien and, most importantly, feels strong regret when he hurt his son. He cries; he feels remorse for destroying Paris and injuring Adrien in the process. He hugs Adrien (along with the spirit of Emilie 🥹) and decides to stop being Hawk Moth. It was beautifully done. He got a redemption arc that he never got in the series. I know I personally felt so good watching that and seeing the relationship between him and Adrien being repaired.

Marinette was her usual clumsy self, but was written as having no friends at school because she embarrasses herself so much. In a way, it makes more sense than her being so popular like she is in the series. Kids in high school can be pretty judgy and ruthless. So it makes sense for the “clumsy girl” to be made fun of and judged by people who don’t know her well.

Adrien was different in a lot of ways. He wasn’t shown running to school to gain freedom. He wasn’t introduced as being a super model who’s friends with Chloe. Instead, he’s already going to the school, he’s already friends with Nino, and he happens to run into Marinette at the library. He doesn’t have that same chemistry with Marinette as he does in the series which is a bit odd that they took that away, but it does make sense that he’d turn her down when she asked him to the ball, since he loves Ladybug. In the movie, he very clearly sees Marinette as just a friend and it’s shown that he’s building a friendship with her without him developing a crush. It’s different but still wholesome, especially when he shows her the old family photo to her. Plus, it evens it out well since Ladybug obviously turns Cat Noir away but they’re still building up their bond, too. They both get turned down.

It was ehhh that Adrien was a bit too cocky at times as Cat Noir, but overall, his goofiness and self confidence is still pretty on brand for him. He was still very encouraging towards Ladybug but not overly flirtatious, pushing her to her limits. Instead, it was them lightly teasing each other and then playfully fighting. And, speaking of the playful fighting, their bond was stronger in the movie seeing as how they were shown spending more time together off duty and that they were treated as equals.

In the show, Cat Noir is automatically made sidekick and left in the dark about everything. But in the movie, he gets to meet Master Fu in disguise alongside Ladybug. Sure, he didn’t help Master Fu with his cane like he did in the series, but that didn’t matter since the lore was changed.

Alya was less annoying in the movie. Sorry. Don’t get me wrong, I love Alya in the series, but she’s so over the top at times with how obsessed she is over the heroes, blogging, and filming things for her blog. In the movie, she was toned down a lot and I liked that. It was also cute that Nino had a crush on her and just her, not Marinette first. Unlike the series, he wasn’t on that pipeline of guys who fell for Marinette since that pipeline doesn’t exist in the movie.

Tom was made out to be an embarrassment for Marinette which is honestly more realistic for a teenager. Most teenagers get pretty embarrassed by their parents, especially when they still treat them very childlike. And, I like that he went out to the fair to look for her since he heard there was danger. Marinette’s parents don’t usually go out to look for her or make sure she’s in her room when there’s danger afoot. So, I appreciate that they made Tom do that since he obviously loves Marinette a lot.

The rewriting of (some of) the lore

As I had mentioned in my previous section, the lore was rewritten, too. Instead of Master Fu being the one to pick Marinette and Adrien simply because they helped him, the kwamis sense that Marinette and Adrien are the right people to be Ladybug and Cat Noir. That was a much better way to write that, in my opinion.

Hawk Moth got ahold of the butterfly miraculous by mistake. That part wasn’t changed but also, it didn’t need to be.

The change of plot

The plot was very simple. It didn’t have a whole lot of crazy, in depth details like the show’s does. So, anyone who has never watched the show can easily understand and absorb what’s going on (I will be forcing my boyfriend to watch it with me since he’s never seen the show lol).

I like that it was very clear cut and easy to understand while still being intense and meaningful. It still summarizes a lot of what the series entails while fixing some issues in the plot development.

They didn’t doddle with Hawk Moth like they do in the show. He was a successful villain in his second attempt but then realized he should stop when he hurt his own son in the process.

Also, there was a reveal. It was a wee bit underwhelming, but I still think it was done well! It was a moment with just Marinette and Adrien alone, as it should be. And, it was cutesy and heartfelt. The fact that Marinette dressed like Ladybug for the ball (cutest dress ever imo) and Adrien dressed like Cat Noir was so cute. That’s what a lot of the fandom has been asking for and written about in fanfics, I feel like.

The romance between these two is most important. They didn’t need Kagami and Luka as 2nd love interests to throw things off track. Yes, I like these characters in the show, but they weren’t needed in the plot.

The music

I love musicals. I was a bit of a theater kid in high school, plus I’m obsessed with music lol. So, yes, I’m a bit biased when I say I love that they made this a musical.

I personally loved the music. I can tell a lot of good effort was put into it and I’ve already been listening to the songs on my Spotify. The song between Ladybug and Cat Noir in the theater “Now I See” and Cat Noir jumping on the clouds (literally, on cloud nine) singing “My Lady” was absolutely adorable and super romantic, which, as we know, is a big part of the show.

Even Gabriel’s song “Chaos Will Reign Today” was amazing! It conveyed a lot of emotion and turns into one of those dramatic villain songs. Keith Silverstein is clearly talented enough to sing for his own character and he did it well.

My only nitpick is that Marinette’s singer, Lou, has a very different voice than Christina Vee. So, Marinette sounds very different, much more mature-sounding when she sings and it kinda catches you off guard. I’m surprised they didn’t have Christina sing for her, but there must’ve been a reason why she didn’t. But, SQVARE sounded similar enough to Bryce Papenbrook when he sung for Cat Noir which i absolutely love.

Conclusion

I personally give this movie a 10/10 just because it made me smile the whole time, and it’s such a feel good movie. I’ll happily watch it again and listen to the soundtrack, especially on a day when I’m feeling down. It wasn’t perfect in every aspect, but it was perfect in a simple, heartwarming sense and that it can be watched by everyone, not only people who watch the series.

I understand if it made you cringe or you were moreso looking for a continuation of the series not a retelling. But, I prefer some simplicity which is a big part of what made me like it. Like I said, I know it wasn’t absolute perfection, but it was so frickin adorable and I can’t help but smile.

There’s a lot of differences but also plenty of similarities between the movie and the show. But understand they’re not meant to be the same and that’s okay! I don’t think the movie was horrible for most of the changes it made. In fact, I think most of them made sense and made it a bit more realistic (as I explained).

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uptoolateart · 10 months

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Okay, so what I was saying in my long Gabriel analysis rings true. (Ha ha...rings....) He changed to be accepted by Emilie's parents.

Deep down, Gabriel probably relates to Marinette. In the story Feligami tell...Marinette could easily be the poor tailor, while Adrien is the heir to the empire, ready to throw it all away for her.

At some point, Gabriel got twisted and sold out his values. It was probably a gradual process, which explains why Emilie initially fell in love with him and then stuck with him despite her unhappiness with him later.

In one of her videos for Nathalie, she said Gabriel got stuck on things. He was good enough for her but not for himself.

When he looks at Marinette, he sees a little of what he used to be. When he gives her that speech about being naive in the fashion world...he's talking about himself, once upon a time. I think he once had a dream like hers, and he let it go, focusing instead on the wealth and status he needed to be good enough for his in-laws.

Now, he envies Marinette, even if he's unaware of it. That's the only reason a grown man would be fixated on her in that way. He's treating her the way Emilie's parents treated him. He has to break her and get her out of his son's life because if he doesn't - if she achieves her dreams of marrying Adrien and becoming a designer without selling out her principles - it means he could have done this too. It will force him to reflect and take accountability for his bad decisions...and he just can't cope with that.

Similarly, when he hurls abuse at Cat Noir about what an ill-mannered child he is, and when he goes to such lengths to control Adrien...I really think he's seeing a reflection of his younger self there too.

Underneath the pancakes and bad dancing and total insanity, the man is nothing but a writhing heap of regrets and won't see that he had so many chances to do things another way.

#miraculous ladybug #mlb #ml fandom #ml gabriel #gabriel agreste's a+ parenting #gabriel agreste #ml representation #ml spoilers #ml s5 spoilers #ml s5 #ml meta #ml analysis #adrien agreste #marinette dupain cheng #ml adrien #ml marinette #adrinette #adrienette #emilie agreste

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ataraxianne · 11 months

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I love how Felix put so much thought in his superhero name choosing "Argos" to reconnect it to the Argonauts, the army commanded by Jason, Hera's favourite hero. Hera, the Queen of the Gods, Mother of the Gods, whose symbolic animal was the peacock. So he literally presented himself as the hero of the creatures made with the power of the peacock because his whole intention in getting the miraculous was to protect the sentibeings created with it instead of seeing them being abused and exploited by others, and to be seen as herald in front of those who wanted to stop him.

And then we see the other heroes' names and they're like "Okay so the white rabbit is called Bunny(x), that purple tigress there is Purple Tigress and the black cat is called - wait for it - Black Cat"

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fortuna-et-cataclysmos · 1 year

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Season 5 and the symbolism of pancakes

Guys, I swear I have a life outside of speculating the meaning behind pancakes in Miraculous...

But seriously, they're important. They symbolise the future (as made explicit in Pretention).

[Small note: they look like pancakes, they're called "pancakes" in the French dub, I don't know if they taste like pancakes, but I do know that they are not "French toasts" as the English dub claims. So I'll stick to "pancakes"]

Illusion

So we are introduced to the pancakes in Illusion, where for the first time Adrien sees his father in the kitchen, preparing breakfast.

Seems benign enough. Gabriel is even considered enough to ask Adrien how he likes his pancakes. He likes them "well-toasted."

Illusion is an episode where Gabriel fakes having changed, and him giving Adrien a choice is in line what that change. Of course, he still manipulates him into making him think that he has the freedom to not be the face of the Alliance, by basically threatening to withhold his newly expressed fatherly love if Adrien refuses to agree with him (more on that in this post). Pancakes are just a device for Gabriel to add to his illusion of good parent, and the illusion that Adrien has a choice.

Passion

Adrien and Gabriel are in the kitchen. Adrien is looking at his extremely decorated pancakes.

As we learn from Nathalie a second later, he likes his pancakes plain. She tells him to not eat them "to please his father", while Gabriel seemingly naively points out that if Adrien didn't want bananas, he could have told him.

Sure he could tell him, except that the last time Adrien asked for something from Gabriel -to not be the face of Alliance-, he emotionally manipulated him to withdraw his request, and even made him wear the said Alliance.

The bananas and the fancy toppings are basically a metaphor for the fancy model life Gabriel wants to give Adrien, while Adrien really doesn't want any of it. And just as many people like toppings on their pancakes, they also would like to have a life of fame, hence think Adrien is lucky (as seen in the S4 Finale). Meanwhile, Adrien doesn't want any of it, he likes his pancakes and and his life plain and simple, "au naturel".

Nonetheless, Adrien still continues eating his father's pancakes, saying that he doesn't mind, that he likes them.

Pretension

This is where the pancake business gets serious.

First, we learn that indeed, Gabriel's pancakes taste bad. Plagg cheers for being saved from eating another serving of Gabriel's pancakes. This is bordering to over analysis but, given that Plagg couldn't eat them while Gabriel is in the kitchen, I assume that's Adrien's opinion which he must have confessed to Plagg at a more appropriate time. And still, Adrien keeps eating his father's pancakes.

Later in the episode, the pancake/future metaphor is expressed very clearly by Gabriel. He tells Marinette that she can have her pancake and life however she wants it, but the one thing she can't do is to share it with Adrien.

He says very clearly:

You think that you have a choice, but all you have is the illusion of a choice. And I decide which choices you get.

And where do we get this exact claim in practice? In the episode Illusion, where Gabriel manipulates Adrien into thinking that he has a say over his future, while Gabriel is the one making all the choices that matter.

And he gives two "choices" to Marinette:

To eat the pancake, receive Gabriel's backing and be a famous designer

To refuse the pancake and have nothing

Once more, the way he frames it, Gabriel gives the illusion that Marinette has a choice, while neither of the two choices includes being with Adrien. So he basically leaves her with no choice but to break up with him.

Now comes the breaking point. Marinette fully understands that the pancakes are a metaphor for her and Adrien's future, and she continues the same metaphor to get her message across to Gabriel (talk about power move).

First, she refuses to eat them. She has "lost her appetite."

This refusal is in contrast with Adrien who kept eating them even though he didn't like them. Unlike him, Marinette "doesn't even need to try them to know that they are bad."

Normally, this is to be understood as her making the choice no 2: refuse the pancake and have nothing.

As such, she is escorted out the kitchen. The scene composition clearly shows that she is stuck between Gabriel on the one side, and the Gorilla on the other.

Because, she refused the pancake. Per Gabriel's rules, she is supposed to have nothing.

But Marinette defies that. Not only she runs upstairs to hug and tell Adrien that she'll never abandon him, but she also gets back downstairs without needing to be restrained by the Gorilla, hence protecting her composture.

Look at how she goes down the stairs, having not only the physical but also the moral high-ground:

She looks so intimidating that in the next frame, even the Gorilla steps aside to let her pass. Both Gorilla and Gabriel are surprised by her move, if you zoom in you can see it in their faces. Gabriel did not expect her to do something outside the two "choices" he had given her.

And then comes the death blow, where Marinette tells Gabriel:

You know what's your pancakes problem? They have too much flour and not enough butter. You use an outdated recipe, no one likes them like that anymore.

Yup. She calls Gabriel's entire fashion, but also life practices, outdated with one simple metaphor. My girl slays.

At the end of Pretention, during dinner (no pancakes here sorry), we see that a parallelling breakthrough happens in Adrien's front.

Gabriel tells Adrien that he can spend as much as time as he wants with Marinette, for he will be in London next year. Again, Gabriel is creating the illusion that he is free to date Marinette, except that, as Adrien now realises, he is not. Adrien gets visibly furious at his father for the first time.

He does quickly calm down, but what is his reaction? He says that he has "lost his appetite," just like Marinette did. The boy who kept eating badly made pancakes with the toppings he didn't like finally refuses to eat the illusions his father is feeding him.

This, coupled with Adrien's terror at going to his room at the beginning of the episode, leaving Marinette alone despite himself, become a turning point for him: he finally acknowledges that he isn't free, and that his father keeps forcing his decisions onto him. Maybe also getting one step closer to discovering/accepting that he is a sentibeing.

All this story, told through pancakes.

#miraculous ladybug #ml spoilers #ml season 5 #ml illusion #ml passion #ml pretension #from fortuna #ml analysis #sentimonster theory #sentimonster adrien #sentibeing #sentiadrien #adrien agreste #gabriel agreste's a+ parenting #adrinette

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lawbreaker13 · 11 days

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Guys, why are we not talking about Plagg’s character growth more?

Compare his goodbye to Zoe in season 5 to literally any interaction with Adrien in season 1. He’s so SUPPORTIVE?? And SWEET??? He’s encouraging and of course sarcastic, but he just sincerely means so well. Plagg is a literal god and has existed for eternity and yet the character growth that he’s exhibited over the course of this one single year is so immense. And it’s so important that it happens with Adrien, because boy does Adrien need it.

Good for Plagg, you know? A+ for Plagg.

#Plagg is actually my favorite character #Chat Noir is only second #Sorry man #Miraculous #Miraculous Ladybug #ML #ML season 1 #ML season 5 #Plagg #Adrien Agreste #Zoe Lee #Chat Noir #Character analysis #Mine

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miraculous-floconfettis · 10 months

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"Monarch lives here" "WHAT??"

I cannot imagine everything that must have gone through Plagg's mind at that very moment. To Marinette, he just looked surprised & shocked by this info, but we know there's a lot more than that from the way he reacted.

#miraculous ladybug #miraculous #adrien agreste #mlb season 5 spoilers #mlb s5 spoilers #ladybug #chat noir #miraculous spoilers #miraculous floconfettis #miraculous plagg #plagg #monarch #marinette dupain cheng #tikki #miraculous tikki #tikki and plagg #ml analysis #ml thoughts #ml theory

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geekgirles · 11 months

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Liar Revealed

So Marinette and Sabrina worked together to lure Lila into a false sense of security that eventually led up to her spilling everything in front of an audience she was unaware of. Now everyone knows she’s been lying about everything, she’s a horrible person, and she and Chloé are about to be expelled for good... After 7 years, the fandom finally got what it wanted.

...then why do I feel like I’ve actually wasted those 7 years of my life?

Buckle up, ‘cause this is going to be a long ride.

As someone who’s been eagerly awaiting for Lila to be exposed since Volpina, a feeling that only grew with each passing episode she’s been featured in, I honestly find this development wholly underwhelming, highly disappointing, even.

Maybe I’m too vindictive, who knows, but this in no way feels like proper comeuppance for a character who’s been maliciously manipulating everyone around her and relishing in other people’s misery since she was first introduced.

First and foremost, because having Lila accidentally reveal herself while gloating is too much of a cliché. I’ve seen people before mentioning how Lila exposing herself seemed to be the only way this could go, seeing as Marinette’s best attempts always seemed to fail. But if we ignore for a second this was actually set up by Marinette and Sabrina, with the way it’s handled it just feels like a kick in the gut, not the overwhelming catharsis I’m sure most of us were expecting.

Because, and this is actually my main problem with the execution, by having Lila expose herself by spouting a self-satisfied tirade of every single lie she’s ever told and people have believed without question as she disparages Sabrina’s attempts to take her down, saying how she could easily turn everyone against her, the narrative is actually framing Lila in the right.

When we as the audience know it shouldn’t be like that.

Lila only really upped her game in season 5 (and even then the writers still rely too much on the characters being dumbed down around her for it to work), up until then all her lies would have been easily discreditable if the writers didn’t need the class and everyone in Paris to believe her for her schemes to work!

From our perspective, Lila is nowhere near as formidable as she presents herself to be. Which, admittedly, goes in line with her consistent characterisation (about her only consistent trait aside from being hateful and a liar) that she believes and presents herself to be more special than she actually is. But the problem is no character other than Marinette, Adrien, and now Sabrina ever learnt of this fact! Maybe now that she’s exposed herself, but with the way she gloated about all her plans going off without a hitch...

Which leads us to another reason this was the worst possible execution of Lila being exposed they could have come up with:

It was a stroke of luck.

That’s it. That’s unquestionably what it was. Because hadn’t Sabrina finally grown a spine and drawn the line with the actions she was willing to commit for Chloé’s sake, Marinette would have had no way of knowing of Lila’s plan and preparing accordingly.

Really, the only positive thing I can say about it is that it could maybe count as character development for Marinette since she finally learned she needed to be as sneaky as Lila if she wanted to take her down. And there’s of course the fact that Sabrina finally broke away from Chloé. Other than that? It’s a fairly sombre scenario, really.

Because, again, Marinette didn’t manage to finally beat Lila because she had a strong support network (which would have painted a very symbolic and meaningful picture showcasing how, for all the superficial attention her lies can get her, in reality, Lila will always be alone as long as she doesn’t put in the genuine effort to reach out to others like Marinette does), but because she had outside help. Again, help she couldn’t have accounted for until Sabrina herself reached out to her.

Relating to my previous point, Marinette never got Alya to even believe her about Lila or at the very least question how genuine she was until Lila spelled it out for her. Even though she’s known her best friend is Ladybug for months, which brings forth the question if letting Alya in on Marinette’s secret ended up being even worth it if the writers refuse to have her help her out where it matters (I’ll be sure to go back to this point in a minute, just you wait).

What else? Oh, I know! How about the fact that, for a season that was supposed to be all about Adrienette winning, the writers purposely robbed us of that Adrienette vs Lila alliance we were promised back in Chameleon, huh? Because Adrien was completely left out of the plan. In fact, ever since Ladybug back in season 3, he hasn’t been allowed to do anything to help Marinette against Lila. As with the Ladynoir conflict in season 4, his relevance all but vanished even though he was a central part of the conflict from seasons 1-3.

Even better! When he finally spoke up about Lila to Nino and Alya, arguably his best friends besides Ladybug, they completely brushed his concerns off as him just agreeing with Marinette out of boyfriend obligation! I didn’t know intangible things could slap me in the face, but boy was I wrong!

And the best part? This complete disregard of his feelings, lack of communication, and their assuming they know better than him (which disturbingly parallels to his own relationship with Gabriel...) is certainly never going to be explored, let alone resolved.

What do I mean with all this?

Well, basically that for a show that’s supposed to promote the power of love, friendship, and teamwork, when it comes to Lila Marinette is all alone. Has been since Volpina.

But at least that’s done with, Lila got her just desserts, and we’re never going to have to deal with her ever again...

SIGH

Except, not really. Not at all, in fact.

Because just as she and Chloé were finally being reprimanded for their actions, Mr. Damocles had to choose that of all moments to realise he failed as a principal, attract an akuma, cause a racket, and provide Lila with the perfect distraction to just...walk away unscathed.

And with the reveal that she actually has more identities, social circles, and opportunities to lie and manipulate to fall back to after being expelled from the Françoise-Dupont...Let’s just say it implies that while Marinette (and the audience) had to endure nothing short of psychological torture, Lila never really had anything to lose.

Now I ask you...how the Hell am I supposed to consider that a satisfying, cathartic resolution to that particular arc?!?!?!?

And if you permit me, there is one more thing I’d like to get off my chest.

Alya’s reaction to this.

After learning the truth she rushes to hug Marinette and apologise, being a clear wreck about it. And while Marinette getting an apology once in a blue moon is always a welcomed thing, once again the writers aim and completely miss their shot. Because Alya apologises for being gullible.

Look, back in seasons 1 and 2, Hell, even back in season 3, I could have overlooked this. Yes, she never listened to Marinette, could be a tad hypocritical, and the whole jealous thing got old and annoying fast, but at least she couldn’t know for certain Lila was bad news. But from season 4 onwards Alya no longer has such an excuse. No, from season 4 onwards Alya’s problem isn’t that she’s gullible, it’s that she willingly and repeatedly chose to blatantly ignore all of Marinette’s suspicions and warnings regarding Lila. Even after Adrienette finally became canon and Marinette had realistically no reason to feel jealous of Lila in any way, shape or form, Alya still couldn’t fathom that, perhaps, her best friend had her reasons for disliking Lila besides a love triangle.

The moment Alya learned Marinette is Ladybug, the two should have been allowed to talk about Lila, about the real reason Marinette hates her, and to work together to overcome this issue and bring her down. How do you expect me to be okay with season 5 opening to these two having daily sleepovers to talk about Marinette’s love life, but not a single second could be spared after Illusion to have Alya question why Marinette hates her so much, if not connect the dots herself since she is Ladybug’s best friend, not Lila, and Ladybug hates her?

I’ve seen people justify this saying it’s been a long time since Lila lied about being Ladybug’s best friend, and while I’ll argue the last time it was mentioned was actually Chameleon, not Volpina, I could see your point. Except that is not just another lie, like her claiming she knows Jagged Stone or Prince Ali. No, that is the lie that started everything.

It was because Lila lied about knowing Ladybug to impress everyone, especially Adrien, that Marinette completely lost it and chewed her out for it in front of him. It’s because of that lie and the consequent reaction it got from Ladybug that Lila even developed a grudge in the first place. It’s because of that lie that Marinette ever found out about Lila being a liar, because before she first lied to Adrien about being close to Ladybug, Marinette was panicking because she had no chance against someone as incredible as her. If she hadn’t lied about knowing Ladybug, Marinette would have been as fooled by her as everyone else and the two might have never really come to blows.

So don’t tell me it was never brought up because it was so long ago and it doesn’t matter anymore, when that particular lie carries so much weight and we all know the real reason they couldn’t have Alya in Marinette’s corner is because the writers know Lila needs everyone around her to follow her blindly for her lies to work and everything to always work out in her favour because otherwise she just doesn’t work as a villain.

TL;DR: If you want a good resolution to the Lila Gets Exposed plot, pick literally any fanfic dealing with this exact premise. It’ll be better, I promise.

#miraculous ladybug #ml #mlb #ml spoilers #ml season 5 #ml season 5 spoilers #ml s5.21 #confrontation #ml salt #ml analysis #Marinette Dupain-Cheng #sabrina raincomprix #adrien agreste #lila salt #alya salt #lila rossi #alya césaire #chloé bourgeois

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familyagrestefanblog · 11 months

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God damnit! I knew Monarque’s facial expressions looked familiar!

Even the eyebrows are the same!

It’s actually quite remarkable that the show manages to let Adrien/ Chat Noir and Gabriel/ Hawkmoth (as civilians or whatever miraculous forms) have such individual designs - not even resembling each other too much at all - and yet through the facial expressions, the way they talk and their body language they naturally share one can still consistently recognize them - at least on some subconscious level - as father and son.

Come to think of it. This entire scene of Monarque being fake-kind to Chloé to use her was in general top notch in this regard:

I mean, YEAH. This is absolutely Adrien’s / Chat Noir’s evil and manipulative father.

And the only way to show and convey kindness/ politness this man would acknowledge to be “worthy” of himself to use in a situation like this is either the way his own “perfect” son behaves, or at the very least Gabriel knows exactly what type of kind and polite behavior HE is demanding from Adrien.

I dont have a gif of Adrien moving in the subtle ways like Gabriel copies in the upper one but it’s definitely closer to Adrien’s body language than Gabriel’s own (though by instinct it 300% reminds me of CatWalker

but maybe that's influenced by Monarque being a miraculous identity and so was CatWalker who - as we know - is the perfect [and desperate and completely submissive] prince Adrien was raised to be so my point still stands).

And the second gif is 100% the move we long know from Adrien and also one we know comes from the way Gabriel teached Adrien to express himself for formal politness towards a woman:

#ml spoilers #miraculous ladybug #miraculous #adrien agreste #chat noir #Gabriel Agreste #ml monarch #Ml Monarque #Ml body language #ml analysis #keeping up with the agrestes #Ml Revolution

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yeet-noir · 1 year

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I love how everybody collectively forgets that Adrien is smart. Yes he may lack social awareness and understanding of people, but Gabriel has always pushed Adrien to academics even when homeschooled. The boy is book smart.

#miraculous ladybug #ml #adrien agreste #chat noir #ml analysis #ml reunion #ml reunion spoilers #ml spoilers #mine #it may of taken him forever to realize marinette likes him but COULD YOU BLAME HIM LOL she isn’t acting on easy mode for him

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ijustliketoreadstuff · 13 days

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The days Zoe loved Marinette

In "Adoration", Zoe reveals to Marinette she had been secretly in love with her since the day they met. Marinette might have felt surprised to learn that she was the ninth grader Zoe was in love with all along, but it wasn’t long before Marinette's moment of surprise quickly turned to realization as she thought back to the time they shared together and realized it was obvious from the start that Zoe was in love with her, it’s just that no one thought to take notice.

Aside from Andre, no one else knew Zoe was in love with Marinette, but looking back, a lot of things that happened around Zoe in past episodes, make a lot more sense now.

Zoe met Marinette the day she arrived to Paris in "Sole Crusher," and at the time, no one knew who she was, making it all the more pleasant for Zoe as it was a brief window of opportunity to show her real personality, before having to hide it to fit the standards of the Bourgeois. Meeting Marinette was a complete contrast to what Zoe normally experienced, but was overall a moment Zoe felt she could genuinely just talk to someone without fearing the consequences that would come from allowing herself to be vulnerable enough to act more like herself.

Obviously Chloe did not hesitate to judge Zoe the moment they met, even threatening to send her back to New York if she didn't fit the family standards, while Audrey in turn saw nothing wrong in Chloe's methods and was more than willing to agree with Chloe for the same reasons. But with Marinette, everything was different. Marinette didn't judge Zoe, she looked at her with honest eyes and noticed she had her unique qualities, but also her share of struggles, all things Chloe and Audrey were quick to reject and ignore, from the unique shoes on her feet, to the way she hinted about her life in New York being anything but happy. Marinette listened to Zoe, she wanted to understand her, and despite not knowing much about her, there she was ready and willing to not only gift Zoe pastries as a way of welcoming her to Paris, but to also ensure the two of them would keep in touch by exchanging numbers.

Marinette gave Zoe her number on a box of macaroons, but it was her heart felt attempts to keep Zoe's number as close to her as possible, on the palm of her hand, that truly made Zoe realize Marinette was a kind and considerate person who wanted to befriend her, rather than expect her to be a certain way in order to obtain that friendship. But in actuality, this little moment always had more to it than the start of a friendship, it was the start of something more. Not long after Zoe wrote her phone number on Marinette's palm, Zoe BLUSHES, hinting she was not only falling for Marinette the moment they met, but that this new love she felt would grow the more Marinette reached out to her and saw through her attempts to fit in with her family, understanding there was something holding het back from being who she truly wanted to be.

(In "Sole Crusher", Zoe blushed at Marinette, revealing the beginning of her love towards Marinette.)

(In Sole Crusher, after Zoe arrived at the Collège Françoise Dupont and felt compelled to insult Marinette to please Chloe, it was Marinette, the one girl who actually got to know her, who understood something was wrong and who was unwilling to push her away without hearing her out.)

Although Zoe believed she had no other choice but to accept the same fate Andre had, as he too accepted long ago that he would need to abandon his dreams and much of who he was so he could shape himself to fit the standards of the Bourgeois family, it was Marinette who once again tried to reach out to her and told her what she was too afraid to tell herself, that no matter the consequences she feared, she always had a choice to just be herself.

After Zoe was akumatized into Sole Crusher, Shadowmoth pointed out that Zoe was weakening the more she listened to Marinette's words, and of course she did, this one girl(Marinette) whom she had fallen in love with, knew exactly how she was feeling, how frustrated she was to have to hide herself from others and constantly put on a show to pretend her life was fine. And of course Marinette understood how Zoe felt as well as the life Zoe was living, because she too was living that very struggle everyday of her life as Ladybug, and had already known all too well what it was like to have to live a life where she was controlled and judged by Chloe, who expected her to fit the role she had made for her.

(Back in "Heart Hunter", Marinette opened up about her frustrations, one of which was being unable to just be herself, of always having to pretend she was fine for fear of the consequences.)

Marinette didn't want Zoe to live with the same lonely struggle she had, to constantly hide from others, which is why she was so determined to reach Zoe/Sole Crusher and tell her she didn't have to hide her true self while in Paris.

Marinette did say there would always be someone there to help Zoe up when she is down, if she took that chance to open up to people who actually cared about others, and at the very least, Zoe could place her faith in knowing that someone like Marinette, who never gave up on trying to reach out to her, really would always be there for her, and she was, from the very moment they met.

At the end of "Sole Crusher'', when Zoe shared the macaroons Marinette gifted her with everyone at Anarka's boat, who welcomed her with open arms, there was a subtle moment where Zoe's eye's remained focused on Marinette, that look was not just out of friendship, it was out of love for the girl who gave her the life she never thought she could have.

We even see Nino pointing to a rainbow on the title screen as Zoe happily stood beside him, a hint that Zoe was LGBTQ+. Zoe loved Marinette the day they met, but there was just one problem, it was entirely one sided as Marinette was already in love with Adrien.

Back in "Transmission", when Zoe found out that Marinette was struggling with her love life, she did not hesitate to reach out to her to help. Of course, the situation surrounding Marinette and Adrien's love life was no easy matter to sort through and understand on account of their secret lives as heroes, but out of everyone in their social circle, it was Zoe who said she knew perfectly well just how complicated love can be. She knew because she was secretly facing a complicated love of her own, towards Marinette, that entire time.

And sure, Zoe still had her issues with her family to sort through, but it was precisely her love for Marinette that eventually helped her find the courage she always had to stand up to all of them, and learn to not let their threats continue to control her.

To be the one whom her family mistreated was one thing, but to watch her family mistreat the girl she loved was not something she could bare to stand and watch, which is why in "Deflagration", Zoe took any fear and doubt she had over facing Chloe, and threw it straight out the window, refusing to stand by any longer as Chloe attempted to humiliate Marinette during her special lunch with Adrien. Chloe's threats might have proven effective in the past to make Zoe grovel for forgiveness, but in that moment, Zoe could care less, she’d rather get sent back to New York than have to stand by and watch the girl she loved cry.

(In Transmission", Zoe found the courage to stand up to Chloe for Marinette's sake, and even though she quickly realized she may have to face severe consequences for it later, to see Marinette smile happily at her, thanking her for what she did, made it feel it was all worth while if it meant she helped the girl she loved.)

As tough as it must have been watching Marinette fall head over heels for Adrien, even helping in any plans to help her get closer to him, the one thing Zoe had that likely eased her heartache, was knowing that Marinette was still part of her life and had found happiness with someone who loved her just as much as she did.

In "Adoration", Zoe saw picture after picture of Adrien that Marinette owned, she saw Marinette's constant flustering and embarrassment towards him, her little sketches, her writings and talks about what their future together would be like, Zoe watched it all, and even though she knew every action and every word that came out of Marinette was for someone else, Zoe never reacted negatively towards it, instead, she smiled, smiled at how all those things made Marinette happy and larger than life. At the end of "Adoration", Zoe said she felt there was no point in telling Marinette she loved her if she was already in love with someone else, that doing so would only change, or even ruin, things between them, but thankfully, Marinette thought otherwise

In many ways, Marinette knew the kind of heartache Zoe felt, because she faced the same thing in the season 3 finale, when she tried to give up on telling Adrien she loved him and instead watched him drift towards Kagami, someone she thought Adrien loved and would love him just as much as she did in return.

Yeah, Marinette's situation with Adrien wound up working out as she realized he always loved her, but had she been in the same position Zoe was in, then she would have wanted to take the chance to tell the person she loved how she felt if they were willing to give her that chance, to finally have that weight lifted from her shoulders and allow her to move on with her life, and that is exactly what she gave Zoe, a chance in knowing the person she loved would be willing to listen to her confession.

At the end of "Adoration", Marinette gave Zoe the chance to speak her feelings, and despite Zoe's fears over what could have changed between them as friends in the process, thankfully, nothing did. If anything, the only change that did occur between them, was added respect towards one another in knowing they had both grown as people. Marinette never made any elaborate plans when she thought Zoe was in love with Adrien, and Zoe never broke the boundaries of their friendship to try and make Marinette fall in love with her. The two of them never lost sight of each other and accepted they both needed to be considerate of one another and be clear on how they felt. Marinette couldn’t reciprocate Zoe’s feelings, but this didn’t change the fact that she still loved her just as much as any other good person in her life, she loved everything Zoe did to make her feel better and appreciated everything Zoe did to look out for her in her most dire of times, such as when Chloe blamed her for stealing. Instead of ignoring Zoe’s confession, Marinette chose to acknowledge Zoe's feelings, giving her a proper rejection.

(Despite not feeling romantically drawn to Zoe, Marinette was still flattered by someone as wonderful as Zoe would fall in love with her.)

Zoe was always aware her love towards Marinette was entirely one sided, and even though she knew a romantic future with Marinette would never be possible, to know that Marinette valued her so much and thought so highly of her, meant more to her than anything, giving her the peace she never knew she wanted, and the confidence she needed to keep being that amazing girl Marinette said anyone would be honored to be loved by.

#miraculous ladybug #miraculous tales of ladybug and chat noir #tales of ladybug and cat noir #adrien agreste #marinette dupain cheng #mlb ladybug #thomas astruc #ml ladybug #cat noir #mlb s5 spoilers #zoe lee #mlb vesperia #mlb Adoration analysis #mlb sole crusher analysis #mlb s5 analysis #ml s5 analysis #ml Adoration analysis #zoenette

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