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#ml analysis
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"The baker girl".
This is how people like Chloé or Gabriel have been referring to Marinette in a mean and mocking way throughout the seasons, as if this was something she should be ashamed of.
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The fact that her Lucky Charm turned out to be a baker's peel and she used it to beat the crap out of Monarch is so symbolic and powerful.
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adrinoir · 8 months
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The Miraculous Movie was different than the series…and that’s okay!
I watched the movie this morning and loved it! I think it’s important to talk about the changes that were made and what impact they had.
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How the characters were rewritten
There definitely was a difference in how the characters were written in the movie, and some of the redevelopment of characters was really good!
Gabriel was by far the one who had the best redevelopment of his personality. Gabriel in the series is awful, as we all know.
In the series, he barely gives a shit about his own son, like there is absolutely nothing redeemable about his character. In every “what if” episode and the season 5 finale, Gabriel does not show any regret to hurting people, including his own son.
However, in the movie, Gabriel actually makes a better attempt to communicate with Adrien and, most importantly, feels strong regret when he hurt his son. He cries; he feels remorse for destroying Paris and injuring Adrien in the process. He hugs Adrien (along with the spirit of Emilie 🥹) and decides to stop being Hawk Moth. It was beautifully done. He got a redemption arc that he never got in the series. I know I personally felt so good watching that and seeing the relationship between him and Adrien being repaired.
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Marinette was her usual clumsy self, but was written as having no friends at school because she embarrasses herself so much. In a way, it makes more sense than her being so popular like she is in the series. Kids in high school can be pretty judgy and ruthless. So it makes sense for the “clumsy girl” to be made fun of and judged by people who don’t know her well.
Adrien was different in a lot of ways. He wasn’t shown running to school to gain freedom. He wasn’t introduced as being a super model who’s friends with Chloe. Instead, he’s already going to the school, he’s already friends with Nino, and he happens to run into Marinette at the library. He doesn’t have that same chemistry with Marinette as he does in the series which is a bit odd that they took that away, but it does make sense that he’d turn her down when she asked him to the ball, since he loves Ladybug. In the movie, he very clearly sees Marinette as just a friend and it’s shown that he’s building a friendship with her without him developing a crush. It’s different but still wholesome, especially when he shows her the old family photo to her. Plus, it evens it out well since Ladybug obviously turns Cat Noir away but they’re still building up their bond, too. They both get turned down.
It was ehhh that Adrien was a bit too cocky at times as Cat Noir, but overall, his goofiness and self confidence is still pretty on brand for him. He was still very encouraging towards Ladybug but not overly flirtatious, pushing her to her limits. Instead, it was them lightly teasing each other and then playfully fighting. And, speaking of the playful fighting, their bond was stronger in the movie seeing as how they were shown spending more time together off duty and that they were treated as equals.
In the show, Cat Noir is automatically made sidekick and left in the dark about everything. But in the movie, he gets to meet Master Fu in disguise alongside Ladybug. Sure, he didn’t help Master Fu with his cane like he did in the series, but that didn’t matter since the lore was changed.
Alya was less annoying in the movie. Sorry. Don’t get me wrong, I love Alya in the series, but she’s so over the top at times with how obsessed she is over the heroes, blogging, and filming things for her blog. In the movie, she was toned down a lot and I liked that. It was also cute that Nino had a crush on her and just her, not Marinette first. Unlike the series, he wasn’t on that pipeline of guys who fell for Marinette since that pipeline doesn’t exist in the movie.
Tom was made out to be an embarrassment for Marinette which is honestly more realistic for a teenager. Most teenagers get pretty embarrassed by their parents, especially when they still treat them very childlike. And, I like that he went out to the fair to look for her since he heard there was danger. Marinette’s parents don’t usually go out to look for her or make sure she’s in her room when there’s danger afoot. So, I appreciate that they made Tom do that since he obviously loves Marinette a lot.
The rewriting of (some of) the lore
As I had mentioned in my previous section, the lore was rewritten, too. Instead of Master Fu being the one to pick Marinette and Adrien simply because they helped him, the kwamis sense that Marinette and Adrien are the right people to be Ladybug and Cat Noir. That was a much better way to write that, in my opinion.
Hawk Moth got ahold of the butterfly miraculous by mistake. That part wasn’t changed but also, it didn’t need to be.
The change of plot
The plot was very simple. It didn’t have a whole lot of crazy, in depth details like the show’s does. So, anyone who has never watched the show can easily understand and absorb what’s going on (I will be forcing my boyfriend to watch it with me since he’s never seen the show lol).
I like that it was very clear cut and easy to understand while still being intense and meaningful. It still summarizes a lot of what the series entails while fixing some issues in the plot development.
They didn’t doddle with Hawk Moth like they do in the show. He was a successful villain in his second attempt but then realized he should stop when he hurt his own son in the process.
Also, there was a reveal. It was a wee bit underwhelming, but I still think it was done well! It was a moment with just Marinette and Adrien alone, as it should be. And, it was cutesy and heartfelt. The fact that Marinette dressed like Ladybug for the ball (cutest dress ever imo) and Adrien dressed like Cat Noir was so cute. That’s what a lot of the fandom has been asking for and written about in fanfics, I feel like.
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The romance between these two is most important. They didn’t need Kagami and Luka as 2nd love interests to throw things off track. Yes, I like these characters in the show, but they weren’t needed in the plot.
The music
I love musicals. I was a bit of a theater kid in high school, plus I’m obsessed with music lol. So, yes, I’m a bit biased when I say I love that they made this a musical.
I personally loved the music. I can tell a lot of good effort was put into it and I’ve already been listening to the songs on my Spotify. The song between Ladybug and Cat Noir in the theater “Now I See” and Cat Noir jumping on the clouds (literally, on cloud nine) singing “My Lady” was absolutely adorable and super romantic, which, as we know, is a big part of the show.
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Even Gabriel’s song “Chaos Will Reign Today” was amazing! It conveyed a lot of emotion and turns into one of those dramatic villain songs. Keith Silverstein is clearly talented enough to sing for his own character and he did it well.
My only nitpick is that Marinette’s singer, Lou, has a very different voice than Christina Vee. So, Marinette sounds very different, much more mature-sounding when she sings and it kinda catches you off guard. I’m surprised they didn’t have Christina sing for her, but there must’ve been a reason why she didn’t. But, SQVARE sounded similar enough to Bryce Papenbrook when he sung for Cat Noir which i absolutely love.
Conclusion
I personally give this movie a 10/10 just because it made me smile the whole time, and it’s such a feel good movie. I’ll happily watch it again and listen to the soundtrack, especially on a day when I’m feeling down. It wasn’t perfect in every aspect, but it was perfect in a simple, heartwarming sense and that it can be watched by everyone, not only people who watch the series.
I understand if it made you cringe or you were moreso looking for a continuation of the series not a retelling. But, I prefer some simplicity which is a big part of what made me like it. Like I said, I know it wasn’t absolute perfection, but it was so frickin adorable and I can’t help but smile.
There’s a lot of differences but also plenty of similarities between the movie and the show. But understand they’re not meant to be the same and that’s okay! I don’t think the movie was horrible for most of the changes it made. In fact, I think most of them made sense and made it a bit more realistic (as I explained).
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emsylcatac · 9 months
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Part of me will always mourn that we didn't get to see Chat Noir fighting Monarch, his father, in the finale battle. That's always gonna be nagging in the back of my mind.
At the same time, it was a little predictable, and what the writers chose to do instead makes a lot of sense when you think about it, and is maybe more satisfying for Adrien's arc regarding his relationship to his father than if he'd had to fight Monarch knowing it's Gabriel. (Not talking about the whole "he still doesn't know his father was Monarch" bit, I'm strictly talking about the fights here - that one's another topic entirely)
I say "predictable", because of what happened in "Representation". Adrien got here his moment to fight his father, as a seemingly akuma victim, and this on his own without Ladybug.
With this set-up we have here: Adrien confronting and fighting his father as in Gabriel Agreste, and Marinette confronting and fighting her nemesis as in Monarch. That's always what we envisioned as the finale fight against Monarch would be: Adrien vs his abusive father and Ladybug vs her enemy. It just didn't happen in the same fight, so both could separately have their moment and their thing to say.
I think in the end it's significantly more important that Adrien got to fight Gabriel Agreste as Psycauchemardeur focusing solely on him as his father, than have him fight Gabriel Agreste knowing it's Monarch. Because everything that happened in Representation, everything Adrien told his father as Chat Noir and everything Adrien was angry about regarding his father's behaviour with him, that all comes down to how Gabriel has acted as a father to him independently of him being a city terrorist.
If Adrien had had the realisation that his father's actions were terrible through the discovery that he was, on top of an abuser, a supervillain, then the whole "terrorising innocents" would have overshadowed in Adrien's anger all that Gabriel did to him personally as an abuser & shitty parental figure.
What I mean is that Adrien realising his father is shitty independently of knowing he's a terrorist and confronting him about it in a fight is part of his arc and is more impactful than Adrien confronting his father for his supervillain acts. He didn't realise Gabriel was a terrible person because he was a supervillain, but because he understood he was an abusive father and that's amazing
And that's why he got his moment in Representation while Marinette had hers in the finale - Gabriel is a shitty person both as a father and by being a magical terrorist. Adrien confronted him about the "shitty father" bit, and Marinette about the "magical terrorist bit", and both these things make sense with their respective character arcs & respective relationships to Gabriel
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nobodyfamousposts · 8 months
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Do you really think all of ML's problems would be fixed if Adrien never existed?
Good heavens, no.
Adrien isn't the problem. He's just a symptom of a much larger issue. That issue being laziness and poor writing that comes in the form of "tell, don't show", plot threads that go nowhere, and lack of character development or plot progression that leads to a setup of "Status Quo Is God". Removing Adrien wouldn't fix all of that. Heck, it wouldn't fix any of that.
I can't fault the writers for replacing Felix with Adrien. Even if I and others could write out a plot with Felix, that's not to say everyone could or that the writers could. It could very well be that Felix as he was in the PV simply didn't work for the setup they had in mind.
...the issue here is that the setup they had in mind seems to require stagnancy. Where Hawk Moth attacks without winning and the heroes fight off the akumas without really trying to track him as the source and the two leads chase each other around in circles without anyone making any headway in either of these battles. Marinette wants to date Adrien. Chat wants to date Ladybug. It's why all her plans to ask him out fail while his attempts to express his feelings aren't taken seriously. And there is no forward movement, whether in their arc or in the fight against Hawk Moth. There wasn't even build or lead up to the two falling in love. They just started out episode one with crushes on each other and remained having crushes on each other until arguably season 5.
But no good story is stagnant. In this setup, characters need to do things and there needs to be a feeling of forward momentum.
Break it down this way: What is Adrien's problem? What is his goal? What is the obstacle to his goal?
Yes, we could say Adrien's dad being a supervillain and a neglectful jerk is Adrien's main problem, but it's not the problem Adrien is actually focused on in the show. Instead, if we could say Adrien has a problem, it would be that he wants to date Ladybug. And his goal is to date Ladybug. And the source of the problem and obstacle to his goal is...Ladybug.
So his problem, his goal, and the obstacle are all the same thing. This ultimately seems to make his problems Ladybug’s fault then because the problem would be solved if she gives in to his wants rather than by any real effort on his part.
Adrien as he is in the show doesn't do anything. And he doesn't need to do anything because he is at his base a character that things are done for. He doesn't have a goal or direction or drive. He just comes out to deal with akumas as needed, flirt with Ladybug when he can, and then be sad because his life is so hard when he doesn't get what he wants. We don't see him doing anything else. We don't see him making friends. We don't see him engaging in school. We don't even really see how he interacts with the classmates he only recently met. Things happen around him, but he is not a driving force in anything in the show.
But Felix in the PV is a very driving character. He had a problem: he's cursed. What does he need to break the curse? A kiss from Ladybug. What are the obstacles to his goal: Ladybug refusing to kiss him and Hawk Moth trying to kill her. How does he get that kiss? By flirting with her and trying to earn her affections while protecting her and making sure she doesn't DIE against an akuma before he gets that special curse-breaking kiss.
It's the start of Felix's journey. His goal and the various obstacles to that goal that make his story interesting and his growth possible. As such, I see him as a character who would progress in his attempts to obtain his goal as well as one who would progress the storyline...which is also accurate of 3D Felix since that's kind of what he's done more in his relatively few appearances than the series has in 5 seasons.
Adrien didn't have to have Felix's personality. He didn't have to have the same goals or level of drive. But he could still have had things where he grows and helps to push the plot forward.
Adrien...
...just started school. He has no friends, knows no one, and is trying to learn the ins and outs of public education. How is he doing in the different setting with teachers instead of tutors? How is he trying to get along with his classmates? Does he experience bullying? Does anyone NOT like him? What is he going through as a new student who had been homeschooled all his life?
...is friends with Chloe. What's it like learning his "only friend" is a bully? How do people respond to this? Does anyone (besides Marinette) fear him or avoid him because if he's friends with Chloe, he must be just like her?
...is a superhero. He could have been spending time learning the history of the ring and trying to develop his powers. Trying to get stronger? Trying to get to know Plagg? What is he experiencing as a highly known model who is also a superhero and having to juggle those dual identities?
...has a dead mom who died of a "mysterious illness". Given that this loss supposedly occurred about a year prior, he could still be mourning her. Maybe trying to learn what happened to her.
...has a neglectful father. How is he trying to interact with his dad? How does he feel about his dad not being around? What is he doing to try to resolve this?
...has a supervillain father. Like, I cannot stress this enough! His dad is a SUPERVILLAIN! His dad is THE SUPERVILLAIN THEY ARE FIGHTING! People were predicting him finding out and joining Gabriel to try and revive his mom! People were living for the eventual heartbreak of when Adrien finds out the truth! Entire AUs, fan arts, and fanfics were born of this very idea! Going into the drama and struggle Adrien would be experiencing being caught between the "right thing" and the girl he loves and his duty vs his father and his mother and his family. HOW CAN THEY JUST IGNORE THIS?!
But we don't get any of that. Instead, we get Adrien...
...just acclimated with no issues in school and automatically friends with everyone. Good for him, I guess. Wish it was that easy for the rest of us.
...doing little besides occasional comments to Chloe as she is completely horrible for five seasons including Chloe stealing from classmates, getting the entire school punished for something she did, stealing a Miraculous, trying to crash a train, and betraying the city to Hawk Moth. But it takes him learning about something she did to Marinette a year ago for him to finally decide enough is enough and drop her as a friend.
...only goes out to deal with akumas as they come but does nothing to try and figure out his powers and history, get stronger, or try to track Hawk Moth.
...just moves on from dead mom. No relevance here aside from wanting to see a movie she was in or making a passing comment about how she got sick. No attempt to find out what happened to her. No questioning what she may have wanted for him.
...is just sad about his neglectful father neglecting him but seems to get over it rather quickly.
...never learns his father is a supervillain. Okay, I take it back. He learns twice and those timelines are erased with no real repercussions other than trauma for Marinette, so it really doesn't feel like they count. The pieces are all there, though! He knows his dad has the grimoire but never questions him about it! Never asks his dad what the deal was with Tibet! No question about how mom died or what is going on with Nathalie or what he's doing with a hidden mechanism in mom's portrait.
Adrien has potential. He has plot threads and aspects that could be used and goals he could have. But the writing does nothing with him, so while he has a number of things he COULD do to move forward and progress as a character or for the plot, nothing comes of it.
And that all boils down to a problem with the writing.
Adrien was chosen over Felix as an "easier" option to keep the story at a standstill so they could drag it out for as long as needed. That doesn't mean it should have been. There were so many paths that could have been taken, but Adrien was given the personality of a wet noodle, so he acts on none of them because that was what the writers wanted out of his character.
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uptoolateart · 9 months
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Okay, so what I was saying in my long Gabriel analysis rings true. (Ha ha...rings....) He changed to be accepted by Emilie's parents.
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Deep down, Gabriel probably relates to Marinette. In the story Feligami tell...Marinette could easily be the poor tailor, while Adrien is the heir to the empire, ready to throw it all away for her.
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At some point, Gabriel got twisted and sold out his values. It was probably a gradual process, which explains why Emilie initially fell in love with him and then stuck with him despite her unhappiness with him later.
In one of her videos for Nathalie, she said Gabriel got stuck on things. He was good enough for her but not for himself.
When he looks at Marinette, he sees a little of what he used to be. When he gives her that speech about being naive in the fashion world...he's talking about himself, once upon a time. I think he once had a dream like hers, and he let it go, focusing instead on the wealth and status he needed to be good enough for his in-laws.
Now, he envies Marinette, even if he's unaware of it. That's the only reason a grown man would be fixated on her in that way. He's treating her the way Emilie's parents treated him. He has to break her and get her out of his son's life because if he doesn't - if she achieves her dreams of marrying Adrien and becoming a designer without selling out her principles - it means he could have done this too. It will force him to reflect and take accountability for his bad decisions...and he just can't cope with that.
Similarly, when he hurls abuse at Cat Noir about what an ill-mannered child he is, and when he goes to such lengths to control Adrien...I really think he's seeing a reflection of his younger self there too.
Underneath the pancakes and bad dancing and total insanity, the man is nothing but a writhing heap of regrets and won't see that he had so many chances to do things another way.
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ataraxianne · 10 months
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I love how Felix put so much thought in his superhero name choosing "Argos" to reconnect it to the Argonauts, the army commanded by Jason, Hera's favourite hero. Hera, the Queen of the Gods, Mother of the Gods, whose symbolic animal was the peacock. So he literally presented himself as the hero of the creatures made with the power of the peacock because his whole intention in getting the miraculous was to protect the sentibeings created with it instead of seeing them being abused and exploited by others, and to be seen as herald in front of those who wanted to stop him.
And then we see the other heroes' names and they're like "Okay so the white rabbit is called Bunny(x), that purple tigress there is Purple Tigress and the black cat is called - wait for it - Black Cat"
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trainsinanime · 6 months
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Perfection
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It’s been months and I still think we’re not talking enough about Cloud Kagami in Perfection. I think Cloud Kagami is one of the most haunting, most beautiful but also sad akumas in the show. Most people will probably point to Chat Blanc as the winner in that category, and fair’s fair, you can’t argue with that body count. But for me, Cloud Kagami wins because she’s less literal, more metaphorical.
Kagami is depressed and lonely in this episode. She feels isolated, like she doesn’t fit in. And so her akuma persona doesn’t do anything offensive - she just physically doesn’t fit in. Her mental image of herself is too large, too weird, but also hollow, without substance. Not even that something was stolen from her; she feels like maybe she was never real at all.
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The whole thing comes with a perspective shift for her. She’s too tall to see the small stuff, and she’s can’t even see the people anymore. Paris for her is just streets and buildings, a view like from a map. She is no longer able to see it as a place made up of people.
Swifties will of course recognise that this is exactly the same feeling and imagery as in the song Antihero:
Sometimes I feel like everybody is a sexy baby And I’m a monster on the hill Too big to hang out, slowly lurching toward your favorite city Pierced through the heart, but never killed
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And it comes to a head when Kagami says that she might just fade away, and that it would be better that way. This is the only episode where the danger is not the akuma doing something bad, but the akuma dying. That’s really harsh.
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On the flip side, it’s so important that Kagami doesn’t shrink down or becomes invisible. She is here, and we and the characters see and share in her pain. Our heroes know what’s going on and are worried about her. When Kagami says nobody would miss her, would notice when she’s gone, she’s categorically wrong. She is actually this huge presence, literally, in the city. She just can’t see and comprehend it, because her depression makes it impossible for her to recognise how much the people around her care.
I think this story is really harrowing, but I also love how beautifully they wrote and rendered it. This is really a stealth greatest episode of the show.
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yeet-noir · 9 months
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Wait people actually believe Gabriel was redeemed in the end? He manipulated people up to his dying breath and wished to be seen as a hero. I know the ending seemed strange, but it definitely did so purposefully. This was a set up for the conflict next season not a wrap up of his arc.
I get the initial shock, but this show never held back on the abusive nature of Gabriel. In season 5 alone the total shift of Gabriel was idgaf about my son’s happiness and being mad at his lack of control he has on him. The last thing he did was control Adrien’s perspective of him. He went from wanting to be with his wife to being completely power hungry. His power hunger lead to Gimmi granting his desires.
And if that still isn’t enough to comfort people just remember that every season ends with a set up for the conflict that will follow in the next season:
Season 1 finale introduced Lila as an antagonist interested in the Miraculous and Marinette’s personal life which lead to Lila’s arc start which more so carried out in later seasons.
Season 2 finale introduced Mayura and Ladybug, Chat Noir the other heroes had their first epic fight beyond the scope of villain of the week. This lead to the introduction of sentimonsters and Mayura’s arc which heavily carried out in season 3.
Season 3 finale was another epic fight, but this time against Hawkmoth and Mayura. Master Fu’s identity becomes compromised leading to him passing down his guardianship to Marinette. This introduced Marinette’s guardian arc and season 4 heavily focused on her struggles with being one and maintaining peace with Chat Noir. This season also ended with both the love square “moving on” from one another which in turn caused season 4 to focus on their alternative ships.
Season 4 finale ended with Ladybug loosing the miraculous after being swindled by Felix. Felix offering a trade off with Gabriel for the Peacock miraculous. We literally ended with Ladybug having a mental breakdown and Chat Noir comforting her. This introduced the Monarch arc. Season 5 dealt with the consequences of this mistake.
So what I am trying to say each season finale ends with something that makes you wonder what will happen next. It never ends with a final conclusion only introduction to the next big arc. Seeing a weird reality where Gabriel is remembered as a hero despite us seeing him as villainous as ever to the very end isn’t his conclusion it’s a new arc.
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pisoprano · 5 months
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Thinking about the symmetry of Catwalker and Loveybug.
Yes, they’re both just a version of their civilian selves, but those versions have been pushed to extremes. For Catwalker, he’s the embodiment of perfection and doing what he’s told, but Adrien the civilian often pushes back against being controlled. For Loveybug, she the embodiment of daydreams and affection, but Marinette the civilian is often gets in her own way of fulfilling her romantic dreams.
But these two aren’t just mirroring their own civilian selves, they’re also mirroring their superhero partner. Like Ladybug, Catwalker is focused on the mission above all else and tries to be professional. Like Chat Noir, Loveybug wears her heart on her sleeve and indulges in grand romantic gestures at inappropriate moments.
And this new version of the heroes is simultaneously all their partner thinks they want, and yet not at all what they truly need. Catwalker can help her carry her burdens, but he can’t be the partner who knows Ladybug well enough to be her best friend. Loveybug can shower him with affection, but she can’t be the partner Chat Noir knows well enough to love him for the real him.
And even when you remove the partner they know from the equation and just have it be Catwalker and Loveybug, they still find themselves drawn to each other. Loveybug knows from prior experience that Catwalker is a total sweetheart and is exactly the sort of boy she’d drool over if she didn’t have Chat Noir and/or Adrien. Catwalker knows from prior experience that Loveybug is totally lovey-dovey and is exactly the sort of girl he’d want to have close to him if he didn’t have Ladybug and/or Marinette.
And both are internally screaming just being transformed like this. Catwalker is stressed over having to force himself to conform to a strict standard for Ladybug’s approval, but he thought that having this clean slate would let him be by her side after facing rejection. Loveybug is stressed that letting loose on her emotions so much will be lead to a mortifyingly embarrassing rejection, but she thought that having this clean slate would let her act on her feelings for once without having to worry about long term consequences.
And in our scenario where Catwalker and Loveybug have become partners, it’s only a matter of time before they both crack from pushing their identities to their limits (her from showing a boy more love than her comfort zone has ever allowed, him from restraining himself from reciprocating the love he desperately wants). And once those cracks finally show? Then they’ll be able to see—just a bit more fully—who their partner has been hiding under the mask all this time.
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fortuna-et-cataclysmos · 11 months
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Season 5 and the symbolism of pancakes
Guys, I swear I have a life outside of speculating the meaning behind pancakes in Miraculous...
But seriously, they're important. They symbolise the future (as made explicit in Pretention).
[Small note: they look like pancakes, they're called "pancakes" in the French dub, I don't know if they taste like pancakes, but I do know that they are not "French toasts" as the English dub claims. So I'll stick to "pancakes"]
Illusion
So we are introduced to the pancakes in Illusion, where for the first time Adrien sees his father in the kitchen, preparing breakfast.
Seems benign enough. Gabriel is even considered enough to ask Adrien how he likes his pancakes. He likes them "well-toasted."
Illusion is an episode where Gabriel fakes having changed, and him giving Adrien a choice is in line what that change. Of course, he still manipulates him into making him think that he has the freedom to not be the face of the Alliance, by basically threatening to withhold his newly expressed fatherly love if Adrien refuses to agree with him (more on that in this post). Pancakes are just a device for Gabriel to add to his illusion of good parent, and the illusion that Adrien has a choice.
Passion
Adrien and Gabriel are in the kitchen. Adrien is looking at his extremely decorated pancakes.
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As we learn from Nathalie a second later, he likes his pancakes plain. She tells him to not eat them "to please his father", while Gabriel seemingly naively points out that if Adrien didn't want bananas, he could have told him.
Sure he could tell him, except that the last time Adrien asked for something from Gabriel -to not be the face of Alliance-, he emotionally manipulated him to withdraw his request, and even made him wear the said Alliance.
The bananas and the fancy toppings are basically a metaphor for the fancy model life Gabriel wants to give Adrien, while Adrien really doesn't want any of it. And just as many people like toppings on their pancakes, they also would like to have a life of fame, hence think Adrien is lucky (as seen in the S4 Finale). Meanwhile, Adrien doesn't want any of it, he likes his pancakes and and his life plain and simple, "au naturel".
Nonetheless, Adrien still continues eating his father's pancakes, saying that he doesn't mind, that he likes them.
Pretension
This is where the pancake business gets serious.
First, we learn that indeed, Gabriel's pancakes taste bad. Plagg cheers for being saved from eating another serving of Gabriel's pancakes. This is bordering to over analysis but, given that Plagg couldn't eat them while Gabriel is in the kitchen, I assume that's Adrien's opinion which he must have confessed to Plagg at a more appropriate time. And still, Adrien keeps eating his father's pancakes.
Later in the episode, the pancake/future metaphor is expressed very clearly by Gabriel. He tells Marinette that she can have her pancake and life however she wants it, but the one thing she can't do is to share it with Adrien.
He says very clearly:
You think that you have a choice, but all you have is the illusion of a choice. And I decide which choices you get.
And where do we get this exact claim in practice? In the episode Illusion, where Gabriel manipulates Adrien into thinking that he has a say over his future, while Gabriel is the one making all the choices that matter.
And he gives two "choices" to Marinette:
To eat the pancake, receive Gabriel's backing and be a famous designer
To refuse the pancake and have nothing
Once more, the way he frames it, Gabriel gives the illusion that Marinette has a choice, while neither of the two choices includes being with Adrien. So he basically leaves her with no choice but to break up with him.
Now comes the breaking point. Marinette fully understands that the pancakes are a metaphor for her and Adrien's future, and she continues the same metaphor to get her message across to Gabriel (talk about power move).
First, she refuses to eat them. She has "lost her appetite."
This refusal is in contrast with Adrien who kept eating them even though he didn't like them. Unlike him, Marinette "doesn't even need to try them to know that they are bad."
Normally, this is to be understood as her making the choice no 2: refuse the pancake and have nothing.
As such, she is escorted out the kitchen. The scene composition clearly shows that she is stuck between Gabriel on the one side, and the Gorilla on the other.
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Because, she refused the pancake. Per Gabriel's rules, she is supposed to have nothing.
But Marinette defies that. Not only she runs upstairs to hug and tell Adrien that she'll never abandon him, but she also gets back downstairs without needing to be restrained by the Gorilla, hence protecting her composture.
Look at how she goes down the stairs, having not only the physical but also the moral high-ground:
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She looks so intimidating that in the next frame, even the Gorilla steps aside to let her pass. Both Gorilla and Gabriel are surprised by her move, if you zoom in you can see it in their faces. Gabriel did not expect her to do something outside the two "choices" he had given her.
And then comes the death blow, where Marinette tells Gabriel:
You know what's your pancakes problem? They have too much flour and not enough butter. You use an outdated recipe, no one likes them like that anymore.
Yup. She calls Gabriel's entire fashion, but also life practices, outdated with one simple metaphor. My girl slays.
At the end of Pretention, during dinner (no pancakes here sorry), we see that a parallelling breakthrough happens in Adrien's front.
Gabriel tells Adrien that he can spend as much as time as he wants with Marinette, for he will be in London next year. Again, Gabriel is creating the illusion that he is free to date Marinette, except that, as Adrien now realises, he is not. Adrien gets visibly furious at his father for the first time.
He does quickly calm down, but what is his reaction? He says that he has "lost his appetite," just like Marinette did. The boy who kept eating badly made pancakes with the toppings he didn't like finally refuses to eat the illusions his father is feeding him.
This, coupled with Adrien's terror at going to his room at the beginning of the episode, leaving Marinette alone despite himself, become a turning point for him: he finally acknowledges that he isn't free, and that his father keeps forcing his decisions onto him. Maybe also getting one step closer to discovering/accepting that he is a sentibeing.
All this story, told through pancakes.
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character-fan19 · 5 months
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So I calculated the exact screen time of all the love square ships in season 1
Yeah, it's exactly what it says. With 99% accuracy I went through all the episodes of season 1, calculated the exact screen time of ever love square ship in every episode, added them all up and made charts to compare them.
But first of all, where did I get the idea to do this? Well, I was looking through Tumblr and I so a post by someone called purrincess-chat answering an ask about Adrienette in Season 5 and in her reply she mentioned how Ladynoir and Adrien have around the same screen time in seasons 1-4 with Ladynoir having slightly more and that is simply reversed in season 5 with some Maricat and Ladrien sprinkled here and there. So that made me wonder: how much really is the distribution of screen time between the love square ships? So I did this, starting with season 1. But before we get into the results...
Some Ground Rules
What does and doesn't count as screen time for a particular ship? Here are the rules I laid out:
Both characters of the ship must be present in the scene for it to count. That's means no scenes of Marinette fawning over ads and pictures of Adrien or Adrien swooning over the fact that the love letter he found in "Dark Cupid" might be from Ladybug.
At least one of characters of the ship must be reacting to the presence of the other character for it to count or at least doing something together. We can't have Maribug and Adricat both just doing their own separate thing acting like background characters and call that shipping content.
If one or both of the characters believe that there are speaking with the alter ego of the other character, then it counts as screen time for that ship. Meaning when Ladybug goes to check on Adrien in "Volpina" and Cat Noir pretends to be his civilian self taking a shower, it counts as Ladrien screen time, not Ladynoir.
Now that that's dealt with let's get into the distribution.
Screen Time Distribution
To the surprise of absolutely no one, Ladynoir dominated season 1, having 76% of the total love square screen time. Makes sense, right? There's an akuma every episode so there's Ladynoir ever episode and since this is season 1, it's more focused on the strict formula rather than some actual development between the other ships.
Coming in a definitely-not-close second is Adrienette with 18.5% of the total love square screen time. No surprises here. Adrienette along with Ladynoir are the main 2 ships while Maricat and Ladrien are simply the side ships. Plus, it's not often for just one of them to be transformed.
Speaking of which, Maricat and Ladrien come in 3rd and 4th with 3% and 2.5% of the total love square screen time respectively and pretty close to each other, Maricat having a slight edge over Ladrien.
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Now let's see the trend across the episodes.
Screen Time Trend
For the most part, Ladynoir is on a completely different level than the other ships, only temporarily being dethroned for one episode- that episode being "Gamer"- by Adrienette which was the episode they both practiced for the Ultimate Mecha Strike Tournament and we got some Adrienette bonding with Marinette giving Adrien her lucky charm bracelet. Other than that, it's been on top the whole time, with there even being episodes with solely Ladynoir screen time and having an average of 4 min 22 sec of screen time per episode, with most screen time being in "Animan" (8 min 28 sec) and least being in "Pixelator" (1 min 3 sec) a.k.a the episode where Adrien was stuck in the titular villain's prison dimension for most of the episode. It mellowed down a little towards the end of the season due to there being more plot relevant stuff in those episodes than akuma battle but picked itself right back up for the finale.
Adrienette stayed fairly low in screen time and having screen time in most episodes having a huge spike in the episodes "Kung Food" to "Animan", even temporarily dethroning Ladynoir like I mentioned before with 6 min 28 sec of screen time.
Finally, Maricat and Ladrien had a few small to moderate spikes here and there with some even being two episodes in a row and Ladrien having most of it's screen time towards the end of season 1.
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Conclusion
Yeah, so that's it. I'm going to be doing these after I complete every season so keep a look out.
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familyagrestefanblog · 9 months
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Ladynoir in Bug Noire's design:
I need a break writing other posts so let's talk about a detaile I appreciate so freaking much about Bug Noire’s design:
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This entire design SCREAMS how much Marinette wished Chat Noir were with her right now and how much she needed him (which she absolutely did, she fucking LOST.)
Chat Noir is with her as the legs that carry her, the shoulders and arms that support and steady her.
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In her eyes while she keeps wearing her normal mask, so that when Monarque looks her in the eyes he not only sees her as Ladybug she's also pircing him with every eye-contact with one of Chat Noir's most distinguishing featurs: his green non-human eyes. And it's noteworthy that here it's of crucial importance that her mask and eyes do NOT combine the two miraculous as the rest of her outfit does. Cause now every time Gabriel looks in her eyes she's making him ackowledge them as seperate individuals.
Marinette is not just standing here as Bug Noire for herself, she's also representing her partner who she lost to Gabriel and wants to get back:
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Which - if I may point out - is extremely relevant in this fight because Marinette just saw how badly Gabriel treated Nathalie who then met her end right in front of Marinette because she sacrificed her life and health to help him as Mayura:
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Ladybug and Hawkmoth BOTH lost their partners that day but only ONE of them honored hers in this last battle because Marinette ackowledges that she wouldnt have gotten this far without Chat Noir, meanwhile Gabriel in the end basically completely disregarded Nathalie and everything she ever did for him.
But let's continue.
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Chat's in her ears that have his green all around on its borders because she most likely can hardly imagine him without his extra ears on his head (Mister Bug being the only rare exception), and then topped it off with a hair style reminding of her Lady Noire hair.
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And in the weapons she fought with. Bug Noire fought so much more with Chat's baton than with her own yo-yo which she also colored exclusively in his colors while only changing the footprint color to her red. The yoyo accurately represents Chat's colors (mainly black) while for the baton the main colore should have ben red to represent her suit (but I get why they didnt to that. Not only is she here wearing her suit and red as her main color, it also wouldnt have fit very well overall)
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And the weapon with which she hit the butterfly miraculous off of Gabriel was the baton too. The fight choreography took so much care to have Marinette include Chat's baton and cataclysm as much as possible. She didn't just wore both of the miraculous, she fought for the BOTH of them. Using Chat's things so often because thats all she has left of him right now and incorporating him so crucially into her suit design that it's heartbreaking. She literally projected the support Chat gives her onto her suit design because she wished so BADLY that he was by her side right now.
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"Monarch lives here" "WHAT??"
I cannot imagine everything that must have gone through Plagg's mind at that very moment. To Marinette, he just looked surprised & shocked by this info, but we know there's a lot more than that from the way he reacted.
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zaaaras · 9 months
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not to go all film major OKAYYYYY but this shot is so cool Like the fireworks shooting behind her while it encompasses marinette in darkness
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ESPECIALLY in comparison to this shot a couple scenes later
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where the light behind her makes her shine when she realizes ladybug is the only one who can help She got out of that darkness
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nobodyfamousposts · 4 months
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Do you think people cling on too much to Adrien's high road advice as a reason to salt on him?
Yes, especially when there are plenty of other reasons to salt him that have previously been ignored. But to that end, it DOES serve as the final straw for people after a SERIES of problems that had previously gone unaddressed.
Much like many aspects of the show, Adrien has displayed problematic behaviors that have been overlooked and waved off in the earlier seasons. This is likely or especially due to the way how in each and every incident, Adrien was narratively shown to be correct. In his stance. In his choices. In his behaviors. He was always right. It doesn't matter if he shouldn't be, because he is.
Now unless you're a hater or anti or salter or whatever negative name people tend to get for not liking a story as it's presented, readers and watchers tend to follow along with the narrative as it presents things and how it presents things. It's a common setup in any story. Protagonist Centered Morality, I feel framed best by Susan in the Discord series:
Susan: ...and then Jack chopped down the beanstalk, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and trespass charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused anything if you're a hero, because no one asks inconvenient questions.
Pretty much this. Most people will follow what the narrative says because it's the narrative. If the narrative wants you to focus on Marinette being embarrassed, you're going to focus on how much she's cringe. And if the narrative wants you to view Adrien as a perfect sunshine boy who never does anything wrong, anything he does is going to be framed through that lens and it's difficult to break from that view and call out the times when he is wrong. Not unless he does something particularly severe.
It should be noted that outside of Chameleon, Adrien had, among other things: lied to his partner, caused someone to get akumatized and had his partner take the blame, was messing around during life-threatening and city-threatening situations, did nothing as Chloe tormented people right in front of him, DEFENDED Chloe after she tormented people right in front of him, bailed on an event with friends to set up a date with someone who said she had other plans and then got mad at HER for it, tried to flirt or confess in the middle of an active crisis which took necessary attention away from said crisis, caused himself AND his partner to get hit by akuma powers and needlessly be taken out of commission.
And yet people could mostly overlook these instances. They weren't his fault. Chloe is his friend. Marinette is worse. He's just a kid. He has a tragic backstory. So on and so forth. Easy to overlook. Easy to ignore in favor of the Sunshine Boy setup people were given and want to believe in.
But there were three major instances that really grabbed people's attention and stayed:
His attitude in Frozer. It probably wouldn't have been so bad except this rejection already happened in Glaciator, where he was supposed to have learned a lesson and accepted just being Ladybug's friend and now apparently didn't, despite it happening earlier that very season. Then in response, he decides to date Kagami as a rebound, drags Marinette with him on his date (without realizing how he's asking his friend to be a third wheel on a DATE) and focuses on her when he's supposed to be with Kagami, throws another tantrum in the middle of an akuma fight and refuses to work with his partner when the city is literally frozen, and requires Ladybug to apologize to him for hurting his feelings before he finally working with her. Again. But okay, he's a teenage boy in love. Not used to rejection and got his feelings hurt. Lovesquare is endgame so of course it'll work out anyway, so it's not like this bump in the road is really going to matter long term so we shouldn't hold it against him. Fine. Dumb, but fine. We've forgiven it in other shows and other poorly done teen romances, we can forgive it here.
His behavior in Syren in which he demanded to know secrets from people when the secrets were not theirs to tell him, and went so far as to attempt to blackmail his kwami (which was funny) and threaten to quit and abandon the Ring that the big bad is after while the city is flooded and people were trying to not drown (which was decidedly less humorous). But it was played for wholesome when Plagg reassured him and he got what he wanted by Fu revealed himself even if Adrien did nothing to actually show he earned it, so all's well that ends well, I guess? And people could justify it because "they're partners" and "part of a team" and "she should trust him" and "it's not fair he's the only one left out of the loop" and "he has a right to know" and just general "Fu is an idiot" (which is admittedly hard to argue). So people were disgruntled, but most were willing to overlook it.
His holier than thou lecture to Marinette in Maledictator over everyone being happy Chloe was leaving. When all Marinette was doing at the time was watching everyone else have fun. When Adrien specifically guilted Marinette and not any of the other actual partiers involved who were literally throwing a party over his friend leaving and probably should have warranted a lecture more than the girl just standing there. When the girl in question was also Chloe's main target and out of everyone had valid reasons to be happy that her bully won't be around to bully her anymore. When Adrien himself has historically been present to witness Marinette being targeted including twice he witnessed Chloe attempt to steal from Marinette, once he witnessed her try to blackmail Marinette, and numerous other times when she actively caused harm to Marinette and others. When Adrien then proceeded to sit in a corner and pout rather than do anything else or just leave if the party really bothered him. When Adrien, if he really cared so damn much, could have gone after Chloe himself! Or y'know...have stood up for Chloe earlier when she got upset in the first place. But fine, okay, Chloe is his childhood friend. So maybe he's just being biased and oblivious to the fact that his "friend" is a horrible person. But people can excuse and justify it in that they are friends and friends support each other, and the longer someone is friends with someone else, the harder it is to break from them. And that Marinette was probably just the target of his lecture because she was the one there in the moment (and the only one who would listen without arguing). And her calling Chloe useless was "mean" despite it being quite frankly the least of what she could have said about her in the moment (coughcough theft cough blackmail cough punished the entire school cough TRIED TO CRASH A TRAIN AND NEARLY KILLED HER AND HER PARENTS COUGH-FREAKINGCOUGH). Fine. Childhood friend means Adrien supports her in all her horrible and even deadly actions. Frustrating, but again, able to be explained and you can see where he's coming from.
These are all things that definitely got Adrien some side eye at best and some detractors at worst.
BUT if you really think about it, all of these examples are objectively worse than his lecture to Marinette in Chameleon. Not accepting being told "no" and continuing to chase a girl who isn't that in to him (while leading on another). Putting lives at risk over personal wants that could quite honestly wait until AFTER the crisis is over. Defending someone who is harmful and guilt tripping the victims. Compared to those, telling someone to leave a liar to their lying seems relatively minor.
So why this? Why here? Why is it Chameleon that has people saying enough is enough? Why is it this episode that is causing the sunshine boy to be so tarnished and the subject of salt in fan fiction?
Because this is the time when it couldn't be rationalized. There wasn't even a valid sensible canon-based reason for his stance. The arguments that Adrien "knew confronting her wouldn't work" or that he "handled her like paparazzi" or that he "knew Marinette previously failed when she tried" (even though he wasn't there and didn't know) or that he "didn't think anyone would believe him" don't come from canon. Those were fan arguments made after the fact to justify him after the base was broken and the outcry became too much to ignore.
This case didn't have any of the ties or rationales of the previous incidents. Adrien wasn't defending himself or his place in a partnership. He wasn't fighting for his love or his dream or an outcome he wanted and that we all knew was coming—if anything, he was fighting against her. He wasn't defending a friend like he did with Chloe—I mean, it's pretty evident he doesn't even really know or like Lila at this point, and for all intents and purposes, this is apparently only the second day he actually had any interaction with her. There was no notable reason Adrien really had for why he essentially chose to protect Lila over literally anyone else as she wasn't a friend and it wasn't in his interests to protect her from a consequence that wouldn't hurt her short term as much as it would likely harm everyone else long term.
And yet, he still defended her and her freedom to lie. Over Marinette. Over Ladybug. Over his friends. Over any sense of right and wrong he seems to have no problem throwing around when it comes to Marinette/Ladybug. Which seems like he targets her 9 times out of 10 compared to pretty much anyone else by this point. So it's little wonder then that people who didn't already hate the lovesquare because of the cringe factor from Marinette started to hate it for being incredibly unhealthy given that their relatively limited interactions tend to involve him lecturing her for failing to live up to his double standards that only seem to apply to her in any given situation.
This incident by itself doesn't seem like much, but when looked at as part of the series as a whole, it's when people couldn't keep overlooking this trend. Where he seems to admonish the wrong person. Where he acts like a mouthpiece rather than a person. Talks like he’s wise in a situation he seems to have a childish and one-sided view of. Acts like a brat but is treated as though he has no accountability in the situation he causes. Where he is wrong but no one and certainly not the narrative acknowledges it (not until season five and two seasons too late when it doesn't matter and he's still not the one facing consequences for it).
And it's not like he actually follows the stances he himself promotes. In Chameleon, canon presents him with this idealistic stance that Lila could change if given a chance, except he doesn't give her a chance. He doesn't push her to be a better person. He doesn't support or in any way help her to be the better person he insisted to Marinette she could be. He also doesn't do anything or warn anyone when she keeps lying and actively harms the people he says he cares about. He doesn't do anything one way or the other other than some lackluster encouragement to stop lying and a warning that goes nowhere. It just further gives credit to the argument that Adrien either simply doesn't care about other people, or that he doesn't care for Marinette specifically. Neither is conducive to the lovesquare or the increasingly tarnished view of the "sunshine boy".
And it could have worked. Canonically and intrinsically to his character. His idealism and trust in the wrong person comes back to bite him. He learns and grows from it. Except that, much like with nearly everything he does in canon, Chameleon set it up that Adrien was the writers' mouthpiece and thus was not "wrong". I'll grant that they did have him admit it and apologize to Marinette for it two seasons later, but it is pretty evident that during Chameleon, they intended his lecture to be right, with no foreshadowing and no implication otherwise. And I'm fairly certain they only backtracked and had him do that much because of the amount of fan outrage over the episode.
So yes, I think his lecture in Chameleon was really a final straw since unlike Chloe, Adrien has NO relationship with Lila to justify his defense of her. Especially when the argument is in favor of letting her lie to the people he's supposed to care about. That combined with how jarring it was how most of the class just sided with Lila over the seat issue in the first place, and I think people were less inclined to just ignore the problems in the episode specifically and with the series as a whole as they were compared to the first and second seasons. Not just with Adrien, as we see that Alya also started getting more callout and salt since then as well as more retrospective scrutiny over her behavior in earlier seasons.
But yeah...Chameleon was where things seemed to take a 180, so it's bound to be the deciding episode and deciding incident that sticks out in people's minds with these characters. That's probably why it ends up the go-to for salt and complaints on the characters involved instead of any of the other incidents that would arguably warrant it more.
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uptoolateart · 5 months
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The Paris Special did some really interesting things with Adrien's apparent 'death wish'.
We've seen it so many times - him sacrificing himself for Ladybug, or jumping off Montparnasse Tower in Gorizilla, or preparing to cataclysm himself in Guiltrip.
Then in the Paris Special, we saw his alter happily accept Cat Noir's cataclysm, as if it's a sign of strength how much pain you can take without breaking.
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Later, when Shadybug takes Claw Noir's miraculous, she rubs his face and reveals the scars he's been covering up with makeup. Superficially, they're the scars from overusing their magic. Symbolically, he's hiding his emotional scars. I assume she does the same, when she goes to school. The point is, he's there showing off how much pain he can handle...but it's all a front. Underneath, he's fragile and hurting.
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Then, at the end of the special, our Adrien voluntarily meets Claw Noir's cataclysm. As already noted, he's done this kind of thing so many times before. But he doesn't want to be hurt. He trusts he won't be - just like he trusts Ladybug to save him each and every time he takes one of those literal leaps of faith.
In fact, that's the gift he gives Claw when he touches his hand - faith - much like Ladybug shows Felix faith in his ability to make the right choice, in Emotion. She sacrifices herself, trusting that he will bring her and everyone else back. Likewise, Adrien risks sacrificing himself, trusting that he will somehow be okay - that Claw won't kill him. It demonstrates that sometimes all people need is to feel like someone believes in them, to help them believe in themselves.
When he touches Claw's hand, he seems to cancel out the cataclysm with his positive energy. His optimism and love overcomes destruction. All of this is to say he does have it in him to resist all the Cat Blanc nightmare stuff. He's far more powerful than he seems to believe he is.
I thought this was the most beautiful, important moment in the whole special.
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