#writer salt
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I'm sorry, what's with this show and handling victories to bad parents? First Roland is reintroduced in his son's life (Bakerix), then Audrey gets the evil daughter she wants (Queen Wasp), followed by Jagged Stone reconnecting with the children he knew he had but never raised (Truth).
Now Andre gets to quit being mayor by sending his daughter to live with her abusive mother while adopting a child that isn't even his without facing consequences on how HE raised Chloe. And in the finale, GABRIEL GET THE WISH! WHY!?
#writer salt#ml salt#ml leaks#andre bourgeois#chloe burgeois#audrey bourgeois#jagged stone#gabriel agreste#miraculous ladybug
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Are there Adrien Salt takes that you disagree with?
I haven't really watched Miraculous recently and I only watched a few episodes of Season 4 so I don't think I can talk about salt takes from episodes I haven't watched, but from what I've seen of the show and the salt takes online, there really isn't much I disagree with.
The difference between Marinette and Adrien is that one of them experiences consequences for their actions (and the actions of other people) and 'learns' as much as the status quo can allow, while the other one is 'perfect' and 'isn't at fault.'
There are moments where Adrien seems like a good person but they're utterly ruined by the way the writers seem to want to pamper the rich, white male. If Adrien actually matured and grew as a character (which he can do based on Kuro Neko, but actively chooses not to) then I would like him. But as of right now, most of the salt takes I've seen about Adrien are valid.
Sure, there are moments in canon which are exaggerated in salt fanfics, but if you don't like that then stop reading salt. Character bashing and salt focuses on the low points of particular characters, and as a result they're going to be very negative towards their subject, but these are typically based on what happens in canon. I would defend the character if the incident people bash was only one moment, but Adrien salt takes are from all of canon.
Once is a chance, Twice is a coincidence and Thrice is a pattern. And Adrien has done far more than that. That's not to ay I fully support canon Marinette. There are Marinette salt takes I agree with as well, but unlike Adrien, the writers blame her for all of her mistakes and the mistakes of others even if she had nothing to do with them. This allowed her character to change and develop in canon.
In Season 1, Bubbler, Marinette stopped the slow dance at the party between Chloe and Adrien because she was jealous.
If the writers make a situation which forces a character to act out of character in order to move the plot along and push a certain shipping agenda, you can tell they know that what they did wouldn't have happened naturally. But what would happen naturally wouldn't be 'interesting' (and it would end the show) so of course they couldn't have that.
Oh and it comes with the added benefit of 'Adrien being perfect' and 'Marinette making a mistake, which she then learns from,' which Ast*c says is a rule of his show.
They want her to trust Chat more?
Her mistake in the finale was trusting people.
#miraculous ladybug#miraculous#miraculous salt#ml salt#marinette dupain cheng#marinette deserves better#adrien salt#adrien agreste#thomas astuc salt#writer salt
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honestly just in general it's very exhausting to try to analyze media that is literally meant to be analyzed, only for the replies to be filled with people arguing not against your analysis, but against the premise that the media can be analyzed at all.
i don't even know what to say about it without starting to really betray my frustration, so i'll just settle with— just don't engage with analysis posts? I'm serious. if you're typing a response to a media analysis post, reread what you've written and ask yourself "is this comment/response against the very concept of analyzing the media at all?" and if the answer is yes then delete it all and go sit in the shame corner. throw your curtains away if you want to so bad and stop telling me that I'm not allowed to hum and haw at the fact mine are blue
#ml fandom salt#I suppose#and no amount of adding ''stop telling me to not analyze the media'' on my analysis posts stops people from saying it anyway#and yes. the leaks count. stop telling me that the existence of outdated leaks invalidates all analyses of the completed material#and no. just like every other time i've said this. me saying that i don't care about the leaks is not an invitation for you to try to#convince me to care about the leaks#do i tag this spoilers? it feels weird to. i mean this to be a vague overarching thing about media in general#also of course any ''or maybe the writers are just bad'' arguments ALSO are included in this. YOU guys have been my bane since FOREVER#would you guys consider commenting on fanart with ''umm.... drawing seems pretty pointless lmao'' rude?#i know this is not the first time i've made a post like this and i'm sure it won't be the last
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girl...WHEN??? WHERE????
what are you talking about???? when you kept him isolated for 14 years??? when you robbed him of bodily autonomy???? when you exposed him to his mother's corpse to akumatize him, TWICE????
wait, wait—OH you mean when he was terrified for his life, literally begging you to stop after you beat him up. my bad.
no? OH, you mean when you forced him to leave the country and the love of his life.
Huh.
#ml#miraculous ladybug#the math is not mathing#i'm sorry for the salt but this unacceptable I am BIG MAD#adrien agreste#gabriel agreste#ml spoilers#miraculous ladybug spoilers#ml recreation#ml recreation spoilers#nothing says love like a deprivation chamber#AND SHAME ON MARINETTE FOR DECIDING WHETHER ADRIEN SHOULD KNOW THE TRUTH OR NOT#STOP!! ROBBING!! HIM!! OF !! DECISIONS!!!#literally a mar stan till I die but smh at the writers#TWO WEEKS OF PANCAKE DON'T ERASE A LIFETIME OF ABUSE#ZAG DO BETTER#'the good father i tried to be' girl you are DELULU
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we have to as a society stop the miraculous ladybug writers from cooking bc at this point they've burned the whole fucking kitchen down. i only watched two seasons but every new detail i learn secondhand gives me incredible psychic damage it's like the riverdale of cartoons. every couple of days i see a new design cross my dashboard and it's either the best or worst thing i've ever seen. i still don't know if the main ship is currently canon because they keep doing time travel and mindwipes and alternate timelines to walk it back. their episodes aren't even chronological. in 50 years someone's going to tell me that adrien and marinette are finally dating but still don't know each other's superhero identities
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Catwoman (2018-) #57
Bruce is really swinging between extremes huh
#dc#jason todd#red hood#catwoman 57#gotham war#last week it was ‘shouldn’t I kill you’ and now it’s ‘I’m gonna take back my son screw the plan for now’#some people are saying it’s inconsistency but tbh I think he’s supposed to be off the rails#even as he’s saying this he practically tossed said son into the middle of traffic#possibly drugged him too#For once the writers are probably telling you to take what Bruceman says with a grain of salt#like especially that last line makes absolutely no sense in the context of everything he’s done this issue lol#but tbh is this really anything new for him#the only new thing about it is the fact that it’s being framed honestly for once
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Do you really think all of ML's problems would be fixed if Adrien never existed?
Good heavens, no.
Adrien isn't the problem. He's just a symptom of a much larger issue. That issue being laziness and poor writing that comes in the form of "tell, don't show", plot threads that go nowhere, and lack of character development or plot progression that leads to a setup of "Status Quo Is God". Removing Adrien wouldn't fix all of that. Heck, it wouldn't fix any of that.
I can't fault the writers for replacing Felix with Adrien. Even if I and others could write out a plot with Felix, that's not to say everyone could or that the writers could. It could very well be that Felix as he was in the PV simply didn't work for the setup they had in mind.
...the issue here is that the setup they had in mind seems to require stagnancy. Where Hawk Moth attacks without winning and the heroes fight off the akumas without really trying to track him as the source and the two leads chase each other around in circles without anyone making any headway in either of these battles. Marinette wants to date Adrien. Chat wants to date Ladybug. It's why all her plans to ask him out fail while his attempts to express his feelings aren't taken seriously. And there is no forward movement, whether in their arc or in the fight against Hawk Moth. There wasn't even build or lead up to the two falling in love. They just started out episode one with crushes on each other and remained having crushes on each other until arguably season 5.
But no good story is stagnant. In this setup, characters need to do things and there needs to be a feeling of forward momentum.
Break it down this way: What is Adrien's problem? What is his goal? What is the obstacle to his goal?
Yes, we could say Adrien's dad being a supervillain and a neglectful jerk is Adrien's main problem, but it's not the problem Adrien is actually focused on in the show. Instead, if we could say Adrien has a problem, it would be that he wants to date Ladybug. And his goal is to date Ladybug. And the source of the problem and obstacle to his goal is...Ladybug.
So his problem, his goal, and the obstacle are all the same thing. This ultimately seems to make his problems Ladybug’s fault then because the problem would be solved if she gives in to his wants rather than by any real effort on his part.
Adrien as he is in the show doesn't do anything. And he doesn't need to do anything because he is at his base a character that things are done for. He doesn't have a goal or direction or drive. He just comes out to deal with akumas as needed, flirt with Ladybug when he can, and then be sad because his life is so hard when he doesn't get what he wants. We don't see him doing anything else. We don't see him making friends. We don't see him engaging in school. We don't even really see how he interacts with the classmates he only recently met. Things happen around him, but he is not a driving force in anything in the show.
But Felix in the PV is a very driving character. He had a problem: he's cursed. What does he need to break the curse? A kiss from Ladybug. What are the obstacles to his goal: Ladybug refusing to kiss him and Hawk Moth trying to kill her. How does he get that kiss? By flirting with her and trying to earn her affections while protecting her and making sure she doesn't DIE against an akuma before he gets that special curse-breaking kiss.
It's the start of Felix's journey. His goal and the various obstacles to that goal that make his story interesting and his growth possible. As such, I see him as a character who would progress in his attempts to obtain his goal as well as one who would progress the storyline...which is also accurate of 3D Felix since that's kind of what he's done more in his relatively few appearances than the series has in 5 seasons.
Adrien didn't have to have Felix's personality. He didn't have to have the same goals or level of drive. But he could still have had things where he grows and helps to push the plot forward.
Adrien...
...just started school. He has no friends, knows no one, and is trying to learn the ins and outs of public education. How is he doing in the different setting with teachers instead of tutors? How is he trying to get along with his classmates? Does he experience bullying? Does anyone NOT like him? What is he going through as a new student who had been homeschooled all his life?
...is friends with Chloe. What's it like learning his "only friend" is a bully? How do people respond to this? Does anyone (besides Marinette) fear him or avoid him because if he's friends with Chloe, he must be just like her?
...is a superhero. He could have been spending time learning the history of the ring and trying to develop his powers. Trying to get stronger? Trying to get to know Plagg? What is he experiencing as a highly known model who is also a superhero and having to juggle those dual identities?
...has a dead mom who died of a "mysterious illness". Given that this loss supposedly occurred about a year prior, he could still be mourning her. Maybe trying to learn what happened to her.
...has a neglectful father. How is he trying to interact with his dad? How does he feel about his dad not being around? What is he doing to try to resolve this?
...has a supervillain father. Like, I cannot stress this enough! His dad is a SUPERVILLAIN! His dad is THE SUPERVILLAIN THEY ARE FIGHTING! People were predicting him finding out and joining Gabriel to try and revive his mom! People were living for the eventual heartbreak of when Adrien finds out the truth! Entire AUs, fan arts, and fanfics were born of this very idea! Going into the drama and struggle Adrien would be experiencing being caught between the "right thing" and the girl he loves and his duty vs his father and his mother and his family. HOW CAN THEY JUST IGNORE THIS?!
But we don't get any of that. Instead, we get Adrien...
...just acclimated with no issues in school and automatically friends with everyone. Good for him, I guess. Wish it was that easy for the rest of us.
...doing little besides occasional comments to Chloe as she is completely horrible for five seasons including Chloe stealing from classmates, getting the entire school punished for something she did, stealing a Miraculous, trying to crash a train, and betraying the city to Hawk Moth. But it takes him learning about something she did to Marinette a year ago for him to finally decide enough is enough and drop her as a friend.
...only goes out to deal with akumas as they come but does nothing to try and figure out his powers and history, get stronger, or try to track Hawk Moth.
...just moves on from dead mom. No relevance here aside from wanting to see a movie she was in or making a passing comment about how she got sick. No attempt to find out what happened to her. No questioning what she may have wanted for him.
...is just sad about his neglectful father neglecting him but seems to get over it rather quickly.
...never learns his father is a supervillain. Okay, I take it back. He learns twice and those timelines are erased with no real repercussions other than trauma for Marinette, so it really doesn't feel like they count. The pieces are all there, though! He knows his dad has the grimoire but never questions him about it! Never asks his dad what the deal was with Tibet! No question about how mom died or what is going on with Nathalie or what he's doing with a hidden mechanism in mom's portrait.
Adrien has potential. He has plot threads and aspects that could be used and goals he could have. But the writing does nothing with him, so while he has a number of things he COULD do to move forward and progress as a character or for the plot, nothing comes of it.
And that all boils down to a problem with the writing.
Adrien was chosen over Felix as an "easier" option to keep the story at a standstill so they could drag it out for as long as needed. That doesn't mean it should have been. There were so many paths that could have been taken, but Adrien was given the personality of a wet noodle, so he acts on none of them because that was what the writers wanted out of his character.
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The funniest thing about thomas and co watching the finale and explaining stuffs while they're at it is that they made it worse by a long shot. It's like beating a dead bush with a dead horse while digging their own graves.
Explain that Mari is actually aware that Gabe is Monarch? Doesn't explain why she's going to his house without Chat to beat his ass.
Jokingly saying that Jagged's crocodile is important to the fight? Nice joke, but care to explain where this whole Kung Fu trio and pet plot came from?
Said that they had planned that Chat won't be in the final fight with Hawkmoth since the beginning? Good job, his character turned out has always been this worthless.
It was Amelie at the end and Emelie stayed dead? Good to know the last 8 years of her irrelevance actually became irrelevant.
Said it was actually Marinette's win? Of course when the villain finally achieved their goal it is the hero's victory.
They actually believe that Gabe is a hero? Hooray, so glad they actually believe that the terrorist who has no qualms nor remorse for physically and mentally beating his own son that he enslaved for his own business is a hero.
And that's not including how they don't explain how people become Miraculized despite it not being akumatization, or how Lila isn't affected by the nightmare, or why Gabe unified Tikki and Plagg in Deflagration instead of making the wish despite it doesn't requires him to unify them.
And those were from two episodes alone. Imagine if they had to explain other episodes, like Evolution and Derision. How deep can they dig their own grave?
#this is so embarrassing that it's amusing#just shut up and leave the damage as it is#haven't you learn from the last few years?#miraculous ladybug#miraculous salt#ml salt#mlb salt#ml writers salt#thomas astruc salt#ml writing criticism#ml writing critical#ml writing salt
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"Make sure that Adrien never knows about the villain that I was, but instead, that he remembers the times I tried to be a good fathe-"
YOU TRAPPED HIM IN AN ACTUAL WHITE ROOM WITH HIS EX AND MADE LITERAL AI VIDEOS OF THEM DATING TO AIR TO THE ENTIRE WORLD! SHUT THE FUCK UP!
#miraculous ladybug#miraculous#mlb#ml writers salt#ml salt#gabriel agreste#gabriel agreste salt#gabriel salt#ml s5 spoilers#mlb recreation#mlb s5 finale
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Destiel “feels like the writers wanted it but the characters didn’t” is…. An incredible take to read on here how on Earth did you get to that conclusion on tumblr dot com
#historical revisionism against destiel strikes again <3#btw this isn’t even salt I’m cackling#the writers wanted destiel soooo bad but Castiel said no actually I am straight#txt
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"Join us Chloe. We can be much better companions than that bug."
A little thing I thought of since Queen and Monarch are both royalty titles. Lila being an overdramatic messenger she is, of course she'd use that to sound smart.
#au#miraculous au#miraculous fanworks#miraculous lb#miracle and plague#miraculous ladybug#art#artists on tumblr#miraculous#miraculous ladybug au#chloe redesign#chloe bourgeois#chloe bourgeois redesign#lila rossi#miraculous lila#lila rossi redesign#lila redesign#rossi redesign#ml salt#ml writers salt#miraculous salt#comic#comic panels#hawk moth#volpina#volpina redesign#queen bee#ml queen bee
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Something I've noticed is that the show goes out of its way to portray Adrien's trauma as romantic.
In Kuro Neko, Adrien is exhibiting a trauma response wherein he invalidates his own feelings and tries to be whoever the other person wants him to be, and Catwalker is explicitly based on the mask Adrien puts on to please his abuser, which is also the persona Ladybug develops an instant crush on. What the show tells us, however, is that Adrien as Catwalker telling Ladybug that it's his own fault for being sensitive because he was hurt by her actions and following that up by promising to take care of her is romantic and wonderful.
In Strikeback, Adrien is once again downplaying his feelings and hurt in order to come to Ladybug's support because she needs him. He is once again invalidating his own hurt and absolving her of all blame. What the show tells us is that it's so romantic that Adrien was willing to push away his hurt feelings and come to her aid like a loyal partner even though she never apologized to him or promised to change her behavior.
In Protection, Adrien's tendency to want to be perfect for everybody and cater to their needs is depicted on screen, with him assuming the full blame for Marinette's confidence issues. He has a whole conversation with Kagami about how he needs to change himself for her. What the show tells us is that Adrien is so romantic and so sweet for essentially assuming blame for Marinette's inability to tell him her feelings and saying that he has to be the one to change and cater to her needs.
In Collusion, Adrien's reacting to his father sending him to London by saying "Marinette and I will last forever," is him clinging to the very little good that is going on in his life. It is him once again centering his identity around this girl and his relationship with her because he has never been allowed to be his own person. What the show tells us is that "Adrien loves Marinette so much uwu."
In Confrontation, Adrien writing "All I know is that I love Marinette Dupain Cheng," is him once more centering his whole life around his girlfriend because he has been conditioned into defining himself around other people because he has never been allowed to an individual in his own right. What the show tells us again is that Adrien loves Marinette so, so much, you guyz.
In Conformation (credit to this post by @youremarvelous), Adrien telling Plagg he's angry at himself for falling short of Marinette's love is also him downplaying his own feelings and placing more importance on her, and him believing that he has fallen short of her love stems from him belief that he has to earn love. He's just shifted from defining himself based on Gabriel's wishes to defining himself based on Marinette's wishes. What the show tells us is that Adrien is such a good boyfriend for wanting to be perfect for Marinette.
The discrepancy between what has been portrayed and what the show wants us to think is concerning, to say the least.
#MLB#Meta#My meta#ML Salt#ML Writing Salt#ML Writers Salt#Marinette Salt#Not really but just in case#Adrienette#Adrienette Salt
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I'm not sure if people still remember but I have always been in the camp that Chloé was a jerk who got what she deserved in the season three finale of Miraculous, a failed hero. When season four first started airing, I also believed that her character regressing in season four could be a reasonable reaction to what she went through in said finale, because she did not have a good time and her lashing out in hurt made sense.
Then season five had the characters talk at length about how Chloé's trauma doesn't excuse her behavior (with Mylène parroting stuff Astruc has said to Chloé fans on twitter if the true source and targets of this part of the episode aren't obvious), in the same season where Chloé traumatizing Marinette is used to excuse Marinette's less likeable behavior. Chloé is made responsible for Marinette's character flaws while also being 100% responsible for her own character flaws when both of their character flaws are stated in-show to be caused by trauma caused by another person. The double standard is obvious.
If I'm going to look at 'Rocketear' and call it out on its character assassination of Nino, I need to look at what the writers did to Chloé and call it out on being the exact same thing. It's not often you see a villain character get character assassinated, but it sure happened here. Chloé might have been a jerk, but she was never whatever seasons 4/5 turned her into.
#chloe bourgeois#ml writing critical#ml critical#ml writers salt#and that's why when you look at my chloe posts you can divide them into pre and post retool eras
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glimmer: literally crying and begging horde prime not to hurt adora
horde prime: ...
catra: seems mildly irritated, if anything, at the mention of she-ra
horde prime: ah yes. the epitome of true love.
#guys i think he somehow hallucinated catra's pupils dilating#(which btw not only did the animators not draw her eyes dilated#but the writers did absolutely NO research on that line#because if they did they would know that cats' eyes don't dilate if they're in love lmao)#anyway#this whole scene was dumb#if they wanted us to focus on c//a they could have shown catra's reaction in more detail#but instead they focused on glimmer and was later like “no actually catra is the one who cares about adora”#spop critical#spop salt#spop discourse#spop#spop criticism#she ra#anti spop#anti catradora#anti c//a#anticatradora
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ah yes, spoken just like someone who has been raised to believe love is conditional and has gone from prioritizing his parents' feelings over his own to prioritizing his girlfriend's feelings over his own
#katy watches mlb#mlb salt#I hate that I get the feeling the writers think this is romantic#when in fact it's so deeply sad
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I'll accept the statue scene for what it tells us about how Adrien likes Mari and accepts her no matter how cringe she is but I ain't accepting the writers claiming it was THE moment he started liking her romantically it is nonsense
THIS SHOULD'VE BEEN THE SCENE HE SAW HER DIFFERENTLY THEMATIC PERFECTION HE WAS CLUMSY AND SPEECHLESS AND GIGGLY UNLIKE EVER BEFORE HOW WAS THIS NOT THE MOMENT
#can't convince me its not the writers trying to do damage control bc of the slander the scene got#mlb#ml#miraculous ladybug#sidrabbles#is this salt#mr pigeon 72 got major bars to spit
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