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sailorsally · 4 months

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Asking a „sense of life“ kind of question - So, why do we ship cockles? There is so much more „physical“ footage of misha and the other spn cast like kissing and intense hugging, let’s take Rob… why is it not Robisha (well, not in this extent)? Why is it Jensen and Misha, bc of destiel? What is it what cockles makes a difference to other relationships with the cast? Just me having another cockles-crisis, need. new. fluffy. cockles. content! Maybe we can have an analysis here 😅

This is a great question actually and I think it's due to two things:

1) we never got closure over destiel. I mean don't get me wrong, I know we aren't toddlers and very much understand object permanence and know that actors =/= their characters but I as a heller, have a primal need to see Dean & Cas together and happy and at this point Cockles is the only place I'm getting a knock off version of that.

Plus, to return to the topic of object permanence here, Supernatural is unlike any other show in regard that it is so closely intertwined with real world events - from the writer's strike causing Dean to go to hell and have a need for an angel to raise him to Destiel trending over US elections. And don't forget 'French Mistake' !

Frankly the topic of the later seasons - God being evil and trying to control Dean & Cas, Becky telling Chuck his ending sucks etc is impossible not to parallel with CW and the SPN fandom. So all these further blur lines between real world and tv show and make the Destiel - Cockles pipeline easier to race thru.

2) You pointed out correctly there is plenty of footage of Misha being flirty and vice versa with other cast members and yet, Cockles is the heaviest of hitters. Again, partly because they are the in-universe version of Destiel but also a big part of it is because their flirting feels different to when they are flirting with others.

For example I do like Rob & Misha, they are super cute together, I think they would make a cute couple and frankly I think if propositioned by Misha, Rob would go 100% with it (or would have gone before Ruthie). They have done silly grabs and shared plenty of kisses but none of it could turn my stomach the way one yearning look from Jensen towards Misha can.

Jensen & Misha's dynamic, as playful as it is most of the time, always feels incredibly high stakes. You put them next to their costars/friends and you can instantly tell there is something different going on between those two. I am really curious to experience them together in a room live this Purcon because I can just feel that different vibe from them in videos and keep wondering if it is real or even worse in person. For the lack of a better word, it feels like they are drawn to each other and unable to do much about it really. There is a degree of possessiveness they have for each other that is very subtle but also very akin to how lovers are about/with each other.

I think what perhaps makes us scratch our heads every now and then when it comes to these men is the sincerity with which they joke/fake kiss/etc. With others, it might be camp and might be queer but it's just until the punchline, until the audience laughs. But with Jensen and Misha it feels like their little flirty interactions are never for show or to make the audience laugh. If anything they are always extra silly to make each other laugh. It feels like in a way their silly and sweet onstage moments never end. After all, as Jensen said, he is living it.

So in conclusion I think that yes, a part of it is due to us kinda expanding Destiel into this world but also I think that we humans are pretty good at picking up signals and queues in other people's behaviour and a lot of people watching Jensen & Misha together feel like there is something there that they might be unable to name (*points at this rambly answer*) but that doesn't necessary mean they are wrong.

#sorry for this very long ramble #that literally says nothing #cockles #ask sally

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youchangedmedestiel · 9 months

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I wish I had watched Supernatural live and also I'm glad I didn't

Let me explain. I have the impression that I missed the best hours of SPN when everybody was totally into it, I feel like being late to the party.

And at the same time, it seemed like a weird party, with not just great experiences, as a Destiel shipper myself in the year of 2023 (and this since less than a year), I think I would have felt bad about being one at the time, because even going through a big amount of convention videos, reading comments, searching for analysis about the show and some against Destiel, I doubted myself and the ship sometimes. (I don't anymore because I just don't care, even if I was the only one shipping them, which isn't the case AT ALL, I would do it anyway with all my heart without thinking what others think, because for me it's the greatest love story ever told and I cried so much for that, so if I stop believing in it, it would be like denying the emotions I felt and still feel about them).

Anyway I don't care. And I really wished I was there to see how November 5th was, especially after seeing how Destiel trended and how everyone went crazy in the last few days about the not-so-rogue translator. But also I'm glad I wasn't there during November 5th because I would have had bigger hopes about the two last episodes and I would have been disappointed. Because when I watched it I just had the time to eat between 15x18 and 15x19 and then watched the end the same evening. It allowed me to appreciate the end at the time, I don’t anymore, since I got the time to think about it (but I will write about that in another post later).

#spn #supernatural #destiel #deancas #castiel #dean winchester #november 5th 2020 #rogue translator #but not so rogue #destiel trending #i felt alone in my obsession #but not in the last few days #thank you SPN fandom #that's also why i needed to create a tumblr account #because even if only one human can relate then i'm not alone #plus it's fun #my personal experience with destiel #my personal experience with spn

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ppersonalsspace · 9 months

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I am just really fucking mad, y'know?

The past couple months I've been doing a rewatch mostly while I'm working or cooking, separate from making my bf watch spn. I started my rewatch on S4, watching just the episodes with Cas, but when I got to S12, I watched every episode. Mostly because S12 is when I stopped watching it as it aired. I was not in love with the rock star Luci plot, and I had a lot going on and just kind of stopped. I didn't start watching again until 2022, so well after it ended and the ending/ Despair was already known to me.

I think the thing that kept me from getting back into it for so long was I was so burnt out on the mixed messages, gaslighting, and queerbaiting. Just. Over it. And then finding out how nothing paid off... It took me being mostly home with my infant for a year before I made an effort to catch up.

I've since found so much to love about those last few seasons. (and things to hate even harder)... but since this rewatch I've had plenty of time to ferally dig through Tumblr for all the destiel Easter eggs, watch Jackles try to make his own fixit fanfic, witness all the post finale canon events. So because I have been seeing so much more subtext this time around, and because today is the day I hit 15.18 again on the rewatch...

I'm just mad, man.

Maybe this dumb, campy ass, horror-themed soap opera would go away if the CW powers-that-be didn't annihilate the ending of a show that'd spent 15 YEARS developing complicated characters who evolved over time. By the end of the show, TFW changed in so many ways but also didn't. And so much of season 15 (not all) completely ignores the Sam and Dean and Cas of 2020.

One of the things that stands out so much to me, was the episode I am too lazy to look up, where Sam and Dean investigate the death of a childhood friend, it was Baba Yaga, there's childhood flashbacks. That young Dean was HORRIBLE to Sam. Awful. Told him he was too dumb to go to college. Dean Winchester did not say that shit to Sammy. That was insane.

And the way Dean treats Jack. They just gotta have the Dean/Sam headbutting and lying arc (which by this point is ridiculous) so Dean goes back to treating Jack like shit and saying horrible shit.

And after Despair? Dean is just... Fine. Normal. He gets one line where Jensen gets a chance to express Dean's grief. I hate it.

If they had just been loyal to the characters, all of them, spn wouldn't be trending in 2023. I want to punch something.

#i hate spn #fuck the cw #this is worse than what happened to GoT #dean loved cas #destiel

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whatspastisprologue-blr · 2 years

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At this point, I think that, for the last scene between Jaskier and Henry Cavill as Geralt, they just need to shoot the moon like SPN did where they just went, "Let's just make Destiel canon. What are they gonna do, cancel the show that's already over?"

Like, remember the chaos when that episode aired? Where it felt like surely that scene couldn't be real? Where Destiel trended higher than the 2020 presidential election and there were all those Putin memes? The rogue voice dubber who made the "I love you" line explicitly romantic?

This especially applies if Joey Batey decides to leave, too.

Just, go for it. Like, avoid the weird Bury Your Gays bit where Cas coming out is literally what killed him but then it got weird because they kind of undid it by bringing him back but never showing him again and only mentioning him once. That was terrible writing/editing (so, perfect for Netflix's the Witcher, actually) and reeked of the Powers That Be wanting to minimize the existence of canon Destiel at the last minute.

But otherwise, just go for it. You don't have to recreate the scene. But go big or go home on this. Make it as dramatic and angsty as possible. Make sure the subtext becomes text to the fullest extent that the Powers That Be will possibly let you get away with. Make Tumblr and the internet at large spontaneously combust the way that Castiel's love confession did.

And then go off and live your lives free and clear. Act in stories where the people in charge actually respect you and your character. Play more D&D. Write more songs.

Or start your own production company with your significant other so you can then figure out how to make sure the story ends up in your hands, giving you an opportunity to course-correct with the help of a writer who actually cared about LGBTQ+ representation. See Jensen Ackles for how to do this.

Actually, since Jensen is co-producing The Winchesters while also acting and recording (and I think there's an upcoming tour with Louden Swain?) , it's not like it's an either/or situation. Dude's just living his best life never letting Dean Winchester go (or maybe Dean's not letting him go) while also making more music and having fun in other roles. What I'm saying here is to consult Jensen re: life choices in the creative industry.

(Also, I now kind of want to see Joey as an earlier Cas vessel. Just, imagine Joey "might be a half-feral Fae creature from the dark depths of the forest" Batey playing the rebellious angel with "too much heart" to follow orders as he's literally programmed to do. Especially since this would be before Cas got to know more about humanity, so he'd still be pretty eldritch at this point, a "multidimensional wavelength of celestial intent" temporarily wearing a human body.)

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mishasminions · 3 years

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The Last Time I’ll Write a Long Post About Supernatural (15x18-15x20)

15 YEARS OF WATCHING THIS SHOW. 11 YEARS OF RUNNING A BLOG ABOUT IT. IT’S BEEN QUITE A RIDE.

[15x20 Speculation + evidence at the bottom]

First off, I just wanna come clean and say, after all these years, I still think they should’ve ended at Season 5.

If you’re going to come at me with “Then why’d you stick around to watch it if you didn’t like it?”, your question is immature, and the answer is simple: I just want to know what happens next (I also love the main characters and their actors too). You can watch a show and still think it’s shit.

Call me a clown, but despite all the disappointment and trust issues that this show has given me, I would still look forward to the day where it might just turn itself around and bring back the quality it once had, or realize the potential of each story it was trying to tell, or at the very least, do justice by my favorite ship.

Never happened.

They’ve had a few good episodes here and there. I can’t imagine the SPN Universe without The Man Who Would Be King, The French Mistake, and Scoobynatural. Seasons 6-10 were enjoyable at times. I blocked out most of 7 & 11-15.

If you’ve been following this blog since its heydays in 2010-2014, you’d know I’d try my best to defend Destiel and this show’s decisions regarding it no matter what.

Because you know what, as a CONCEPT, this show is good. If you take a look at all the worlds its storylines have birthed in fanfiction/fanworks, you’d see how much Supernatural has wasted its own story arcs. The writing got shittier as each season progressed, and they’ve obviously given up in production as well because the quality in the execution has noticeably gone down too, but if you take a step back and take a look at the bigger picture, you’ll see that this show still tries to make sense of itself.

[If you’re still following this post, please bear with me, I know this is long, but I just want you to understand how jaded and pessimistic I am with regards to this show, so maybe you can buy into whatever hopeful thing I’m about to say later on.]

SO LET’S TALK ABOUT DESTIEL

Never in my wildest dreams did I think that they would give us Castiel’s “I love you” speech. To the point where, if I weren’t so desperate for it, I would argue that it was completely out of character for him to word vomit the way he did (but I’m not gonna diss on that right now because I’ll take what I can get).

I’ve valued every meaningful and obscure exchange that Dean and Cas have had in the earlier seasons, and I was willing to accept their relationship as just that--undefined, without any clear boundaries as to what they really are. And I think that was beautiful on its own.

But now, they’ve chosen to define it.

After they’ve driven every possible wedge between Dean and Castiel in seasons 11-15, to try to explain away their feelings as something they offer to a collective.

Dean can’t mourn and pray for JUST Cas, he has to mourn and pray for EVERYBODY--even Crowley, even some chick he just met, because god forbid he cries about just the guy who has given up everything for him--that would be “too homo”.

They’ve even set Cas on a path to abrupt fatherhood just so he can care about something other than Dean. Make it seem as if Dean wasn’t his purpose through and through.

And after all these years of this stupid show trying to deny it, they choose to acknowledge it at the worst possible circumstance, at a time where they’ve been so far apart, that it seems so foreign for them to suddenly come together.

But here we are. And they’ve chosen to tell us.

Chosen to tell us that everything that Castiel has done leading up to his death, he has done it because he was IN LOVE WITH DEAN WINCHESTER.

Chosen to tell us that the ONE THING THAT WOULD MAKE CAS HAPPY IS DEAN WINCHESTER.

Chosen to tell us that BEING WITH DEAN WINCHESTER is something that CAS WANTS BUT KNOWS HE CAN’T HAVE.

And they’ve also chosen to tell us nothing about how Dean feels.

Sure, finding out your angel made a deal, the stipulations of said deal, his newfound happiness philosophy, his long-winded monologue of why he loves you and why you’re worthy of his love, and to top it all off he tells you that being in love with you is enough to make him happy while he subtly hints that he’s always wanted to be WITH you romantically, was a lot to process in the 5 minutes after you’ve just had an existential crisis.

It’s whatever, right? Let’s culminate 11 years worth of tension and feelings in 5 minutes. Let’s waste the entire episode with cringey expository dialogue, and irrelevant sequences. The whole season was a waste anyway.

You know what Supernatural? FUCK YOU FOR THAT. They deserved better. WE deserve better.

And I would love nothing more than to hurl every possible insult your way,

But for the last time, I’m going to HOPE that you’re finally going to try to make it better for the fans that stuck by you all these years.

No more baiting new viewers, no more placating casual viewers, no more excuses. 15 years. Bring it home for the people who have actually been around.

SO HERE’S HOW I THINK 15x20 IS GONNA GO

There’s two ways this series is gonna end. Horribly or Spectacularly.

First let’s all take into consideration what Andrew Dabb says about it:

So, let’s start with

ENDING HORRIBLY

In this scenario, Misha is telling the truth about his last day of filming being 15x18. His “camping trip” during the last few days of filming 15x20, was actually a camping trip. He doesn’t go to Vancouver to shoot.

Jensen wasn’t “being careful” during the zoom interviews that it was just him and Jared quarantining for the shoot, it really was just him and Jared (althought most of these were done pre 15x19) Supernatural isn’t smart enough to do misleading PR, and they’re once again oblivious to the potential of their own story.

Misha hasn’t posted a “Goodbye Castiel” tweet because he’s probably saving it for last episode or he forgot because it was overshadowed by the Destiel trend that night.

So what we get is:

Sam and Dean are on the road again, up against the monster of the week. Only their world no longer has actual Supernatural beings anymore, so the monsters they’re fighting are humans.

Humans end up killing the Winchesters (despite having gone up against literally every powerful being imaginable INCLUDING God himself). Dean and Sam end up in heaven and relive their greatest hits.

Meanwhile, Castiel rots in The Empty because he died after realizing that he was happy and gay. Jack doesn’t bother rescuing him—his surrogate dad, the guy who made this specific deal to spare him—even though it was so easy for him get Cas in and out of The Empty when he had a fraction of the power that he has now.

Dean never speaks of Castiel’s confession because despite all the hints of a profound bond in the earlier seasons, and the fact that Dean has never cared for anyone (who isn’t his actual brother) as immensely as he does Cas, Supernatural just can’t have its main macho character be “suddenly bisexual” because that would hurt the male ego or some shit.

His heaven would probably be living happily ever after with his family. “Family” meaning Mary and John Winchester--two of the shittiest parents ever (but they’re not going to include them in this episode like they were supposed to because of Covid) and Sam.

Sam also gets a dog. As usual.

I wouldn’t put it past Supernatural to do this. After everything they’ve pulled, this would be right up their alley. I actually expect this ending.

Anyway, onto the next possible ending

ENDING SPECTACULARLY

In this scenario, Supernatural tries to stick the landing, and Jensen’s whole “It didn’t sit well with me at first, but then I took a step back after talking to Kripke, and realized that I had to view it from an audience perspective, I am now really excited about it” (DC Con 2019) anecdote about his thoughts on the final episodes, were actually about Dean potentially ending up with Cas. (Which would totally make sense because Jensen at first didn’t see Dean as anything but hetero, but as of late, he has been throwing in Destiel jokes of his own, so he seems to have warmed up to the idea)

Backed with Misha’s tidbit (DLConline 2020) that he and Jensen had conversations about Destiel, and that they wouldn’t have gone through with it if Jensen wasn’t onboard with it, but Jensen didn’t push back at all. (Why would they need to check with Jensen if it was just Cas going all in?)

Robert Berens (writer of 15x18) also wrote the script at the beginning of Season 15, but made Misha privy to the concept a year prior (Season 14), so they went into this season knowing about Destiel going canon.

This one’s a reach, but this scenario also supposes that Misha was lying about his whereabouts during the filming of the final episode, and him saying that 15x18 was his last episode is part of the diversion to avoid taking away from the weight of Castiel’s death.

And that Supernatural is actually self-aware of its own material (similar to how they have wrapped things up in the past—lots of expository dialogue, poor execution, but fulfills the story arc)

Since Season 15 is basically a Meta Season (Chuck/God as a writer, pretentiously calling out how he created the worlds, its characters, and basically invalidating the past 14 seasons), and 15x19 is supposedly the finale for Season 15, written by two of the worst Supernatural writers, Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming (Bob Singer’s wife), then we can assume that 15x19 is where the shitty writers kill themselves--as Chuck, of course.

So we get a badly written episode that produces a bad ending, or as Becky put it, “All action, and no Cas”

So we get the bad writers season ending at 15x19.

And 15x20 is where Sam and Dean write their own stories, and where the cast had a hand in pitching ideas for it.

Dabb has mentioned that 15x20 (Act Two) is a SERIES finale, where they try to resolve the characters’ journeys.

Because as everyone has acknowledged, Supernatural isn’t about the story, it’s about the characters.

So here’s what we can get out of it:

With no more Supernatural beings left to fight, Sam and Dean are in a stalemate. They’ve resigned themselves to fighting to the bitter end, but the “end” has passed, and they’re still standing.

So they try to figure out who they are now, and what they want out of the life they still have.

Sam still wants a normal apple pie life. Before Dean dragged him out of college to go hunting with him, he had a whole life planned out for him. Become a lawyer, settle down with a nice girl, and get a dog. He gave all that up because they had work to do, but now the work is finished, he can finally go back to wanting that for himself again.

Dean finally realizes his self-worth after Cas saves him again. His prayer to Cas in purgatory may have helped him come to terms with his anger, but the whole “you’ve done everything you did for love” speech finally put him in his place, and he learns not to hate himself anymore.

But of course, he cannot fully reconcile with himself if he doesn’t get Cas back, and tell him how he feels.

Because Dean actually wants something for himself this time. Something he knows he can finally have if he can just salvage it.

So maybe this time around, with the help of Jack (off-screen), Dean saves Cas. Grips him tight and raises him from perdition.

They bypass The Empty deal by turning Cas human, and he lives the rest of his days with Dean.

Dean and Cas know they deserve to be saved, and they know that they deserve to be happy.

(Wishful thinking, maybe they kiss a little)

Anyway...

I’m just saying, there’s NO WAY that they’d have Cas go through that whole rushed speech, if they weren’t going to do anything about it later on.

But again, after 10 years of disappointment, I wouldn’t put it past Supernatural to pat themselves on the back and say, “Okay, we sort of gave them what they wanted. We’re good now”

If that’s the case, Supernatural, I’m sorry I wasted my time on you.

Here’s to hoping 🤡

#THE LAST TIME I'LL CLOWN FOR THIS SHOW #SUPERNATURAL #DESTIEL #15x20 #15x19 #15x18 #UNTAGGED #INSIGHTFUL INSIGHTS

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wigglebox · 3 years

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I am sad that CMP’s first outing has gotten such a negative immediate reaction 😞 I hope they can weather the storm.

[i vented sorry]

Yeah, I was very sad yesterday seeing everyone do that. Especially the secondhand embaressment. This is this production company's first big thing, in the SPN universe, and when you have the actor of that universe suddenly turn producer to make more content — folks were going to write articles and the twitter descriptions it's just like —

I feel like the fandom showed its ass yesterday. No one is saying folks have to be jazzed but the reaction, in my opinion, was childish and very rude. Many things that the fandom told each other over the last several months, telling each other how much we trust Jensen with anything SPN related, how much we began to understand his respect for the material etc etc just flew out the window as soon as folks saw 'John Winchester'.

Folks I thought of as rational thinkers, level headed, not dramarific or one for over reactions for SPN things over the years were very quick to get morose, negative, and bemoan the fact this isn't a continuation with destiel attatched to it. There were also the concerns over trying to paint John as a "good man", which, there's no way to make that assumption with any facts behind it. It's just emotions replacing facts in my opinion.

It's like the article was published, people blinked, and forgot everything.

It takes two seconds of thought to understand where this is coming from, what may come of it, and what benefits it'd have to both CMP and to just the SPN universe in general.

But some people wanted to get memes out, wanted to get the quip out, wanted to get the viral tweet or tumblr post, wanted to sit on their rockers and just complain.

I understand some of the criticisms, and they are founded — after the content begins and you actually see something amiss with it.

Right now however, there is no content to judge. You have nothing. It's just emotions being presented as facts in folks' heads which led to SUCH an embaressing twitter blurb being written — I honestly wanted to cry when I read that.

There was no reason for that reaction. Not the caution, but the meanness that came from some fans.

I'm chalking it up to old bitter fans, new bitter fans, fans who don't know who Robbie is, fans who still for some reason think Jensen is a homophobe, fans who wanted to be "right" and were embaressed when they weren't ("right" being "oooh they're going to come out with a continuation as their first SPN project").

I will admit myself when I first saw it I went "wait... what?"

But I got over it, I sat down with myself, and gave a minute of thought to it to understand 1) why we're starting with this 2) what can come of it and 3) what are the good things we're already seeing like Robbie Thompson being involved.

I'm not saying I'm better than others who had their reservations, because this fandom did get put through the wringer last November and a few times before that. I understand the hesitancy. I understand the caution.

But what I did not understand were the trending comments that put Jensen and Dee on blast. I did not understand people complaining to them. I did not understand people celebrating that the twitter blurb made us look like idiots.

Sorry I really lost myself in all of that. I'm really tired, I've been awake since 3 a.m. and had no sleep lol.

To answer your thing: I think Jensen and Dee will actually weather it.

Because even though I just said what I said, the ball is actually in their court, and I do believe they'll do some magic. Bad press around a series only sticks around if it is, in fact, a bad series.

It took less than a night talking about the potential of the show not from only me but from several others as well for other fans to pause and maybe give this a cautious optimism.

Imagine if this series comes and it is something amazing (which, I think it will be good. yes yes CW this and CW that but whatever. It is what it is).

I think we as a fandom forget that SPN means just as much to Jensen as it does to us (most of us — some of "fans" are still extremely bitter or just weird and don't actually watch or care about the show and only want to criticize so... idk what they are doing here).

And it's in that care, in watching the last two years of interviews of him talking about a continuation, him voicing his excitement in 2018 over wanting to help tell the Wayward Sister story, his "I have Dean", his insistence that nothing stays dead on SPN, his overall love and devotion for the show, for the crew, for the cast that I personally think he will 1) push through this and show us just what he can do and 2) prove the trust we had in him was justified.

And I do trust him, and Dee, and Robbie, and everyone else involved in making this. I think their drive is going to push through this weirdly annoying reaction that spawned.

Their love and passion and respect for the material I think will give us something very special, and I think they know that as well!

Never forget:

#spn fandom #slight negativity bl #salt #i'm sorry i don't like talking like this on my blog #especially post finale i'm trying my hardest to maintain that positivity #but fandom needs to take a deep breath sometimes #and not just fly off the cuff #this happened all the time with promos and shit during the show #i remembered the absolute PANICK when rowena was introduced thinking she was a female love interest for dean #despite him not having one for years by that point #so it's like #...just because something isn't exactly how it is in your head doesn't mean it's bad #it just means folks have different stories they want to tell and how they want to tell them #i'm sorry i forget the con that last image was from

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destieldailynews · 3 years

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Misha Collins Cameo Videos (Top Trending)

March 17, 2021

On Tuesday March 16, supernatural star Misha Collins released his first batch of cameo videos. In combination, these videos caused supernatural to trend once again across platforms. The most popular of the cameo videos are transcribed here with links (we will release another post summarizing the rest of the videos, which are mostly personal greetings.)

Still Beautiful & What Cas is Doing Now

“Hey heller friends. Bridget wanted me to say hi, and to say [Cas voice] Still beautiful, still Dean Winchester. [regular voice] Shit! My Cas voice is rusty. I don’t know what I, how, Hogwarts house Cas is in. I know that I am a...flugmort. I don’t even know the names of the hogwarts houses, guys, this is not working for me. What do i think Cas is up to now? I think Cas is up there, with his sleeves rolled up, having a massive...ping pong championship in Heaven. There’s ping pong everywhere, that’s all people do now. It’s like, um, It’s like Forrest Gump when he was recuperating. Any words of wisdom to my fans? Stay happy, do your best”

link to video on twitter

Talking about Cas Coming Out (from CTE)

The prompt was: Could you please record yourself as Cas and talk about what his coming out meant to him?

“I’m not going to speak as Castiel because [chuckle] Warner Brothers has specifically forbidden it. But I will tell you this. As the actor who plays Castiel I can say that the scene in 15x18 when castiel expressed his love for Dean was very important to me, and it felt like a really meaningful, deeply important conclusion to my character’s arc on the show, and I’ve heard a lot of people saying that it meant a lot to them, and that means the world to me. Umm, that's a conversation that i would love to have more of, but, uh thank you [wink] bye!’

link to video on twitter

Ideal Destiel Kiss?

“Hey Jess, I...I was not able to read your story because I just, I just don’t have time right now. I am trying to help a friend who has a very sick kid and it’s kind of taken over my day. But I, I will tell you this. When I got your request to describe the ideal Destiel kiss, that’s not something I have put enough thought into. But I will tell you this: I am deeply gratified and grateful that Castiel got to have his parting words on the show. That, for me, was so so meaningful and I was so grateful that Cas got to have that ending. I hope you’re well. Sending love, bye!”

link to video on Cameo

Destiel Reunion Hug

The prompt was: Since we were unable to see Cas rescued from the Empty & in heaven in the finale after his romantic confession to Dean & subsequent death, what would you have liked to have seen for Dean & Cas’ reunion if given the opportunity to decide yourself?

“I’ll answer this question for you about Dean and Cas and a reunion. I would love to just see the most authentic, loving hug. I could imagine them just, like, grabbing each other and hugging.”

link to video on tumblr

Cas’s Retirement In Heaven

“Hey Caryn! I love that you are looking out for Cas’s posthumous well-being in Heaven. Is it posthumous...I guess he’s resurrected, and now he’s rebuilding heaven. I would say this about Cas and what he’s doing in Heaven: I think cas, sadly, will never retired, but I think that also for Cas, doing good work is what he would want to do in his retirement anyway, and I’m sure that he’s doing good work now. I think he’ll never stop. Bye...I hope the same is true of you!”

link to video on Cameo

Theoretical SPN Revival

“Hey Alex. I would love to one day get the band back together for a SPN revival of some sort, whether it’s a movie, or a limited run series, or just some little odd casts. Wouldn't it be fun to get together Sam, Dean, Cas, and Alex for a, I mean Jack, for a little, little chit-chat, vocal, audio, podcast? And it would be lovely, one day, to see, to have Dean discuss the impact of Cas’s comments, cause it was never really done. I’m sending you love. Bye!”

link to video on twitter

More Ping Pong

“[Cas voice] Hello Dean. [regular voice] No, no, no. Hello, Kyalin, how are you? I don’t know, I don’t know if you’ve thought about this at all, but I think Cas and Dean are probably playing a lot of ping pong in heaven right now. As you know, they’re ping pong fanatics. I hope that you’re having fun. I hope you’re having fun with your mom, who takes such good care of you. You’re a lucky one [wink] bye!”

link to video on twitter

Thoughts on how Cas Helped People

“Hey Rich, thanks for your messages. Really gratifying to hear and of course I’m so sorry to hear that you went through such a rough stretch but I’m glad you’re alive, I’m glad these fictional characters helped you, and I...I’m just going to say i'm really happy that Cas got to go out sending a message that authentically loving who you want to love is something that can potentially save the world. That’s a nice message, maybe something to carry with us.”

Personal Congratulations and Poem Reading

“Hey Fitz. I am wishing you a happy top surgery. What a monumental moment for you, that’s huge. Take care of yourself, rest up, be gentle in your recovery. And now I’m going to read you a paragraph, because I have been instructed to. This is from your friend Brook. [Cas voice] We are the last of all things. Come to me in darkness and daylight and aching. Come to me mourning: proselytizing. [regular voice] I can’t talk like Cas anymore [laugh] oh my goodness. Come to me, Sisyphus, we’ll roll this boulder back down the hill together. If we go fast enough it feels like falling or flying. I really don’t know what just happened to me [laugh] it’s rusty.”

[italicized sections are quotes from the poem]

link to video on tumblr

link to original poem and author's tumblr

Request From MCR-Natural

“Hey MRC Natural Discord. I don’t...know what that is. The question is: what member of Team free Will would most likely get a stigmata and what would Castiel’s role be in such said scenario, and the answer is obviously Sam and the rationale is that, oh no, Castiel’s involvement is that he secretly used his angel blade to cause the stigmata, while Sam was sleeping. He numbed him with his magical powers and then secretly gave him a stigmata to help exacerbate his savior complex. Thanks, bye.”

#destiel daily news #spngate #Destiel #misha collins #spn cast #video transcipt #castiel #cameo

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neven-ebrez · 4 years

Note

since everyone's attention is on spn and destiel now, many people are commenting on how awkward the scene seems and if they filmed it separately. do you think there's any truth in that? i think it was filmed before covid shutdown so it's not like they had to keep the social distance or something. i genuinely don't care about the 'is jensen homophobic about destiel' discourse, i think regardless of his personal feelings he wouldn't botch the scene bc of some awkwardness he felt.

Hi anon. I personally haven’t seen anyone say the scene looks awkward (maybe if they hate Destiel they would have this opinion)? Jensen and Misha filmed together right before the virus shut down production. I’ve seen deliberate awkwardness filmed but that scene wasn’t it. If anything, there’s still a lot of narrative space in 15x18, visually. There was some other episode this year that I remember talking about things “hanging” and I’d say this episode also falls into that.

Everything with Dean and Cas visually this episode continues to play with negative space in what is by now, a long-standing visual trend between the two. Then there’s that one scene when they first return to the bunker where they circle and pass each other like two galaxies colliding or something. I’m no gif maker so I don’t have a shot of the 15x18 scene but visually it recalls this:

Then there’s another scene where Billie stalks them around the corner where they are crouched then the reveal and we see the space where together they are now visually missing. Rich used this negative space technique a lot, like... a lot.

The further apart Dean and Cas physically are, the sadder the show generally becomes, with Cas’ death frequently being the greatest distance/sadness for Dean. Just showing and lamenting the negative space, the distance, is the narrative asking for the distance and sadness to be removed. Dean and Cas yearn to be together.

So any “awkwardness”, to me, is simply what I just described. And Jensen doesn’t get mad/frustrated/whatever about Destiel any more. He hasn’t had that attitude in a long time. Here’s them around the same filming time.

Jensen loves Misha and they both love acting their scenes together. He even says stuff like this ⬇️ these days because he’s known about this scene since the show started S15. Bob Berens wrote it first thing when breaking the season.

Destiel is textually part of their story now. It just is.

#ask zerbe #spn spoilers #anonymous #15x18 #zerbe discusses things #negative space #colliding galaxies #destiel for ts

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dotthings · 4 years

Text

Let’s talk about why Dean dancing with a lamp is subtext, but it’s subtext that supports textual arcs. Dean dancing with a lamp is not random. Meta on why Dean dancing with a lamp is part of the build of a textual arc for Dean, thematically, which also connects to his relationship with Cas. This symbolic moment being tacitly about Destiel will only feel like reaching if you ignore context, ignore canon, ignore long arcing, ignore textual material surrounding it. This isn’t just me talking about a ship, this is an important arc for Dean himself emotionally and the way canon’s working, Cas has become the star player in this specific emotional Dean arc about yearning.

Here are some canon quotes. I could just leave these here and not write another word of meta because the canon wrote it for me. But I’ve added some further commentary to spell out clearly what I’m getting at.

Dean in 8.14 “Trial and Error” by Andrew Dabb:

“You see a light at the end of this ugly-ass tunnel. I don't. But I tell you what I do know – it's that I'm gonna die with a gun in my hand. 'Cause that's what I have waiting for me – that's all I have waiting for me. I want you to get out. I want you to have a life – become a man of Letters, whatever. You, with a wife and kids and – and – and grandkids, living till you're fat and bald and chugging Viagra – that is my perfect ending, and it's the only one that I'm gonna get.”

Dean in 10.16 “Paint it Black” by Eugenie Ross-Lemming and Brad Buckner:

“You know, the life I live, the work I do…I pretty much just figured that that was all there was to me, you know? Tear around and jam the key in the ignition and haul ass until I ran out of gas. I guess I just thought sooner or later, I’d go out the same way that I live – pedal to the metal, and that would be it....Now, um… recent events, uh… make me think I might be closer to that than I really thought. And…I don’t know. I mean, you know, there’s – there’s things, there’s…people, feelings that I-I-I want to experience differently than I have before, or maybe even for the first time.”

Sam and Dean in 11.04 “Baby” by Robbie Thompson:

SAM: Really? You don't . . . Ever want something more? DEAN: I'm sorry, have you met us? We're batting a whopping zero in domestic life, man. Goose eggs. SAM: You don't ever think about something? Not marriage or whatever. But . . . Something? You know, with a hunter? Somebody who understands the life?

Sam and Dean in 13.23 “Let the Good Times Roll” by Andrew Dabb:

DEAN: But on a beach somewhere, you know? Can you imagine? You, me, Cas, toes in the sand, couple of them little umbrella drinks. Matching Hawaiian shirts, obviously. Some hula girls. SAM: You talking about retiring? You? DEAN: If I knew the world was safe? Hell, yeah. And you know why? 'Cause we freaking earned it, man.

Sam and Dean in 15.08 “Our Father, Who Aren’t in Heaven” by Eugenie Ross-Lemming and Brad Buckner:

DEAN: Look, man, I didn't want to say anything, okay, 'cause I was kind of in in a bad place, and, uh, yeah, I didn't want to jinx it or whatever, but, you know, I tried the family thing, right? SAM: Yeah, me too. And that's not for us. DEAN: No, not really. But I'm just saying if it was to work, Eileen, you know, she gets it. She gets us. She gets the life. She's hot. SAM: Dean. I mean, I'm not even- DEAN: Look, all I'm saying is you- you could do worse, okay? And she could certainly do better. Like, so much better. I'm happy for you, Sammy.

Dean and Garth in 15.10 “The Heroes’ Journey” written by Andrew Dabb:

DEAN: You know, I gotta say, aside from pincushion in there… this is pretty nice. GARTH: Yeah, better than I ever thought I'd get. I mean, hunting -- I figured I'd be dead before I'm 40. You know, go out young and pretty. But now I've got a great wife, great kids. I guess...sometimes things work out.

Dean in 15.10 “The Heroes’ Journey” by Andrew Dabb:

Dean, wistful, watching through the window as Garth and Bess dance: You know, I always thought I could be a good dancer if I wanted to be.

Ok, let those roll around in your brain for moment.

Now: CONTEXT. CONTEXT. CONTEXT.

There’s this long running arc about maybe Sam and Dean could each find a significant other, not white picket fence, but...something, with someone already in the life, who gets their life. There’s Dean’s move from despairing and believing the only ending he could have, the only ending any hunter could have, is dying with a gun in hand, to Dean’s enthusiasm for the concept of retirement, Dean’s wistfulness about finding a significant other, for what he thinks he can’t have, and he starts the cycle all over again, if he can’t have it, then he wants Sam to have it, so Dean encourages Sam with Eileen. Saileen, the Dean-blessed, Dean-approved Sam ship. Dean ships it. And that is how the canon is trending, complete with Sam and Eileen kissing goodbye and saying “this is real” and even God himself saying their feelings were real, “that was all you,” even if God manipulated events around them. Which is an overt mirror to Dean and Cas and Dean’s expressly stated doubts about what’s real and what isn’t, and Cas telling Dean “we are.”

Much the way Sam has been witness to Destiel, and has often pointed out Dean’s Cas feelings. Dean’s got a front row seat to Saileen and approves; Sam’s had a front row seat to Destiel and approves.

Let’s throw in Robert Berens’ work in The Trap here, since that’s relevant to this specific topic as well, because why did Sam and Dean in the potential future timeline where they’d killed Chuck give up and cave in to their vampire instincts? The world being overwhelmed with monsters...and losing Eileen and losing Cas. It’s right there in the dialogue. I’ll give you the quote and everything:

Sam and Dean in 15.09 “The Trap” by Robert Berens:

SAM: You want to quit? What's happened to you, Dean? Ever since -- DEAN: Ever since what? We lost pretty much everyone we've ever cared about? Ever since the Mark made Cas go crazy? Ever since I had to bury him in a Ma'lak box? Ever since then? Yeah. You know why? 'Cause the monsters -- they're everywhere. Everywhere! What we do -- it's not even Hunting anymore. It's whack-a-mole. We don't even save people. Every friend we've ever had is either dead, or they got wise and they packed it in. SAM: Jody's still fighting, and Bobby -- DEAN: Bobby has a death wish, and you know it. And Jody -- ever since what happened to Donna and the girls, she does, too. And after Eileen... so do you.

“Ever since” Dean had to bury Cas in a Ma’lak box. “After Eileen...so do you.”

So there’s this canonical long, long thread across multiple authors (and those weren’t even all the quotes, I’m sure people could dig up more) about Dean in particular yearning towards finding a significant other, some contentment, with someone who already is in the hunting life, who gets it, who understands.

An episode that flat out shows how losing their significant others is the final straw that rips out Sam and Dean’s last will to fight, and they lose themselves, and after they’re turned into vampires, they just...give into the darkness. Where Sam gives up their shot at destroying the big bad because losing everyone they love is too high a cost. Where losing Cas makes Dean lose hope, where losing Eileen sends Sam into a death wish mindset. Sam and Dean don’t just need each other. That’s not canon, it never has been.

And then right after that, along comes meta episode The Heroes’ Journey. Sorry if you don’t like The Heroes’ Journey, but it’s what the canon did, it’s textual, along with everything else I’ve pointed out here, and in among the crackish humor are some real emotional narrative points.

In The Heroes’ Journey, Dean gets to see Garth’s life. Garth found his significant other, Bess, and she’s another werewolf. Now, Garth’s life resembles the traditional white picket fence idea a lot more than what Team Free Will are headed for. Garth has a big house with a porch, and he’s a dentist. He’s also a werewolf and his wife is a werewolf and his kids are werewolves because Bess is a pureblood werewolf, Garth didn’t exactly leave the life, and he helps Sam and Dean on a case. But nothing’s been indicating to me that anyone in Team Free Will is headed for that kind of settling down, with a house, becoming a dentist. However, the canon has been practically shouting now, as we near final episodes of SPN, to make the point about a desirable outcome--some kind of stability, contentment, and a significant other. Dean gets a front row seat to seeing a hunter can have that. Garth’s a hunter who turned into a werewolf and he can have that.

When EP’s talk about how they aren’t headed for a white picket fence or driving off into the sunset or settling down, none of that rules out them finding...something...with someone, and some form of stability and contentment. Nope, I can’t really imagine them in the suburbs becoming dentists. But canon sure is putting up big neon arrows to...something. Think outside the box. This isn’t about the white picket fence.

And in The Heroes’ Journey, Dean, conked out on the good gas so Garth can fix his teeth, has a trippy dream where he dances with a lamp.

Rewatch the ep. Look at how the dance is choreographed not just the use of light, because that’s a clue too. The whole dance could have been Dean and Garth being dancing bros, but Garth fades off the stage, and Dean dances alone...until he grabs the standing lamp. In a season where Dean and Cas’s relationship is an A-plot, define it how you like, it’s A-plot. Their breakup and their reconciliation, which played like a marital breakup and reconciliation, are tied to major mytharc beats. In a season where a long-running textual theme about Dean’s developing hope for retirement and his wistfulness about “things...people...feelings...” is getting further play. Where Dean and Cas’s relationship continues to be one of the show’s most central ones.

Dean dances with a lamp. While his emotionally fraught, intense close relationship with Cas--A BEING MADE OF LIGHT--has a long-running arc and recently more and more textual level content spelling out the sublimated romantic interest in small words, while there’s an arc about Dean’s yearning for that stability, contentment, a significant other.

CONTEXT.

We don’t think Destiel’s “going canon” because Dean dances with a lamp, it’s that Dean dancing with a lamp is kinda loud serving as reflection of canon textual arcing. Sometimes subtext adds a layer. Sometimes subtext is directly tied to the surface layers, an echo, a highlighter.

I’ll just be over here, crying because Dean danced with a lamp.

#Dean Winchester #Castiel #Destiel #Destiel meta #spn meta #spn #supernatural #Saileen

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deep-slept · 3 years

Text

You know what's funny?

That I come back with this ship re-energized. Why? well Let me tell you: Personal feelings undercut

Every time, in all my years as a fan, I've seen some posts or things that makes me doubt or that speaks ill of one another, something will come in and WHAMO! new info or pic comes in and that contradicts it.

I was disconnected from the fandom since 2015 after giving up hope on destiel and cockles' romantic friendship.

But let me tell ya somethin';

an*** would say: "He dislikes Misha in real life" - I believed it, can't say Misha was well-mannered sometimes and he did somethings that...weeeren't a good idea but ( after some fan vids and JIB10 )

I was like "seems like it" and I believed those stories.

Then this happens:

I'm...in shock.

Going through that mindset I was like:

(why why why why would he post this???? )

(Wasn't he uncomfortable with him?)

(why are your chest so close together? the hell? who does that?)

I was happy, but still doubtful (maybe misha told him to take the pic)

THEN Then... THIS:

uh...

...Why would you post about your friendship anniversary of ten years with Misha? why not with...J*red? who does that? wasn't J*red your friend first?

THAT post made me very happy but melancholic because I knew at the time that SPN was going to an end this friendship would fade.

Then November 5th 2020...

Twitter expoded, Tumblr exploded! CHAOS

The confession I was waiting all my high school & college years to happen , happened.

I WAS IN DISBELIEF

I wouldn't have EVER thought Jensen led this happen, the cast let this happen, the PRODUCTION!!!

Cas was able to say his piece.

But then again I thought, still skeptical;

"Well, now Jensen can be in peace with all this"

After all has settled down, I was doing my own things (work, hangouts, a bit of gossip from local news) when on June, I stumbled upon a pic on Instagram;

Jensen...what's wrong? coping with shit? what does that mean?

In the comments I see someone asking :

-"hey, you good?"

Someone replies: "J2 breakup"

huh?

Breakup??? that's impossible!

I thought

And what place can I lookup that would have this info on the matter?

Tumblr.

I couldn't believe I had to reactivate my old 2015 account for this but I have to find out what was going on.

And it did not disappoint:

Jensen and Daneel announced with their production studio Chaos Machine a new Supernatural Prequel.

J*red didn't know about it....

Oh dear....

I didn't expect him to react that way...

To be honest I was surprised.(I know some fans can differ)

But my Lord, more CHAOS ensued.

Fans were pissed for various reasons

(Why a story of John [that asshole], Jensen not letting J*red know etc.) J2 fans were sad (understandably) but also LIVID!

They (allegedly) even went to Misha's publisher and said nasty things about him in *checks notes* Retaliation?

the fuck? what did he had to do with any of this?

seeing this while sitting down chowing on some food.

(deep down I was happy an*** got their little bubble bursted into flames)

Well that's it for me.

-I thought.

The next day, SPN is trending on tumblr. Again. And I couldn't believe what I saw:

....

Misha was staying in Jensen's.... apartment?

My world stopped at that moment...

My heart and mind exploded in delight!

The serotonin levels were SKY HIGH!!!

After all these years.....their friendship was real...

I wouldn't believe it.

After this, I searched for all the last details and theories about them. And those started to finally make more sense.

Everything was falling into place.

And I was really happy for them.

Regardless if their friendship is beyond that or not, I'm just glad it exists because thanks to that chemistry and companionship they helped thousands of fans and people in their lives.

And I'm forever living happily in this cockles dumpster.

💙💚

#cockles #jenmish #misha collins #jensen ackles #I guess I'll die on this hill #personal #kinda

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whyissupernaturaltrending · 3 years

Text

February 10, 2021 - Supernatural continues to trend for the same reason as yesterday, when it climbed on the second position. Currently it's on the eighth. Chad Lindberg kept interacting with fans which got his tag trending here, as well as in multiple countries on Twitter.

A little clarification is needed, as I didn't expect my last post to receive so much attention. The initial tweets didn't explicitly mention Dean and Cas. It was the overall wording of them that hinted at it to the fans, as well as some interactions Chad had with them:

To the people from outside the fandom: "I'm your huckleberry" is Cas' line directed at Dean in an episode that destiel shippers (hellers) consider to have a ton of destiel subtext. As for the last screenshot - hellers sometimes refer to themselves as clowns, however this like is from today.

I'll make sure to be more clear in the future. If there's any further clarification needed, feel free to dm me anytime. I don't reply to comments because this is a side blog and my urls would get mixed up. I also want to avoid constant reblogging of my own posts, as most people probably don't want to see that. Either way - thank you for all the interactions, your tags (at least the ones I've seen) are priceless, see you next time spn trends! <3

#why is supernatural trending #spn #supernatural #chad lindberg #destiel wedding #deancas wedding 2k21 #destiel #deancas #deancas wedding

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incarnateirony · 3 years

Text

An anti dressed up as a shipper, an idiot, and a terf all walk into the same bar.

It’s the same picture person.

A lesson.

Warning: if the title doesn’t give it away, queerphobic content comes up in this from the other party being documented.

So, some of you may have watched a twitter exercise yesterday.

It started simple: concern trolling white knight “for the writers” comes in to angrily declare fans doing something tagged in support of them about Destiel was “out of line.” She claimed things like “Misha was gaslit into supporting Destiel”, and pulled all kinds of stunts.

She immediately got on a soap box yelling “I HAVE A LIT CRIT DEGREE, I KNOW AUTHOR INTENT” of course implying she knew better than EVERYONE around her how to read text. She then pulled, of all things, @chill-legilimens ‘ article about the network gods gutting the show out of the internet, and somehow misread it SO FUCKING BADLY -- SO FUCKING BADLY -- she thought it aligned with HER. She argued that fans influenced the writers, essentially, and basically pulled the exact opposite of the very clearly delivered message there out. When it was pointed out we know this author and even sometimes help edit their pieces, and she was, flat out misreading it while bragging about how good she is at deciphering text, it turned into a SHITSHOW.

I had watched her give a large group of queer people 2 days of runaround, while they tried to be polite, and similarly tried to prove everything while she proved nothing. Just preached. After 2 days of them exhausting themselves on her, I came in doing my blunt & savage thing, because fuck civility culture when it’s used by oppressors. Of course, she immediately started tone policing, while herself being an arrogant shitbrick the whole way.

She continued to preach author intent and talk down about “headcanons.” You see, she knew the authors very well. Berens’ name was mentioned in passing, and she came back with. “Who’s Berens? Is that the author of the article?” after Deirdre’s name had been directly cited in associated with it about 15 times.

(credit: @judgehangman )

But it gets better. She started pulling the “authors have said Dean is straight.” line. Now, at this point, we had already sourced her at least four pieces of information (quite formally too: SPN Official DVD Collection Season 8 episode 13 creative commentary, Edlund and Sgriccia; Dissent Magazine The Attack Queers Bob Berens review; the books in the office with screenshots, and more.) So we issued one simple request: Okay. Source.

For the next-- I shit you not-- 10 hours she bricked the thread to death, finding any and EVERY rabbit hole she could try to venture down. For the first hour or two a few of us tried to actually debate her newly raised points, but still gave reminder that we were waiting for her source. Every tweet was an opportunity for her to drop a 15 tweet thread trying to derail onto a new topic, and often clarifying she had no idea about any of it (Edlund, Sgriccia, Berens, Dabb--who she couldn’t spell the name of--and Deirdre all became an amorpheous blob in her retelling that she swore she looked at sources and wasn’t convinced, while she crossed all the data and comments about the sources). She tried to challenge that anyone could know all the writers and episodes just because she proved she couldn’t, even when multiple people expressed it to her extremely rapidly with not just author and director listings, but cross references on when they overlapped and major elements (like the 15.20 shot 19 tree being the Kim Manners memorial tree). She randomly babbled about Kripke once. Lied her way through and claimed those sources were vague. Etc.

But at some point, I decided, we’re not playing this distraction game. You wanted a debate, you claim you have a lit crit degree, and thus know the entire art is Argumentation. A source, if you’re declaring knowing author intent. One source. Any time she dropped a distraction tweet, I replied to her thread with things like a list of our sources vs her lack of any and a reminder. I installed a counter ticker. How many times had she been asked to either recant her point or give a single source?

Someone made a list of the logical fallacies she used in the argument. It was two tweets long and still missed several obvious ones. That didn’t stop her. Neither did the dozens of requests for a source or a recant. Onwards, she marched, derailing time and again. She brought in a buddy to try to distract, but he fell out real quick when he realized “the burden of proof lies on the arguer” shot him and her both in the feet in record time and he ducked out.

Other greatest hits came out like “Dubs (Dabb’s) fanfic books”, and calling the ability to list authors and episodes “headcanons.”

Over time, the dialogue shifted: see, she came in trying the snide “enjoy your headcanons” downtalk, but as time and time again she was pulverized on every point about the show, or the authors, or anything else while STILL never even giving a single source to even her FIRST POINT and running distractions, it became a reality-- she was told, “We’ll enjoy our canon and author intent. You can enjoy your headcanon of... Dabb’s fanfic books and Lord Barons and the writers being collective hallucinations and whatever else in your hot takes about the show content itself” and she FLIPPED SHIT.

As the ticker for sources approached 100, she started becoming flustered. Before that, even, she started repetitively misgendering Ezra (no tumblr to link in), and Ezra screenshot their bio of they/them and asked them to adjust. Ignored. Ezra linked this request and asked it to be addressed again, and again, and again. 13 times. Ezra linked it 13 times. She even replied to several of them. No avail. No change. Not until literally any and every tweet in her vicinity either had “source?” or “address gender?” for her to reply to did she flee there, and write some giant write-around of “oh, I didn’t see this, sorry” but still refused to actually use it. Or “I’ll use the right one now.” No, just completely strickened pronouns from her vocabulary with Ezra moving forward, after not one mistake, not two, not five, but 13 answers.

At this point, I notice a trend: throughout the entire conversation, she had flip flopped on my pronouns, clearly confused as to what to call me. As I generally don’t care (honestly I prefer he but meh), it didn’t ping me as something to react to while she switched religiously between “he” and “she”. But I realized now, despite all of that confusion: she never once thought to use “they.” Also earlier we found tweets of hers that, while now declaring herself bisexual, she used troublesome wording in the past to blur the line on if she was an ally or, as she phrased it “maybe less than 100% straight in the bell curve” in other conversations.

I mutter about this on the side to Ezra and some friends, but continue on towards the 100 ticker that was the goal to show people in this digital terrarium how disingenuous most people you argue with are -- an exhibit for the class. They know they’re lying and have been caught, but will not cede to admit “oops, I guess I was wrong.” but rather stick, unironically, to their own headcanons about things. After all, they vaguely sorta apologized even if suddenly just refusing to use any pronouns at all on Ezra after that. And she’s so quick to disappear into 15 tweet bombs of distraction trying to play victim for being held accountable at this point, we just didn’t jump to a conclusion on that, alarming as it is.

So. You know. Source.

At this point, she RANDOMLY starts evoking the fact that like, How Dare, She Watched Gay Men Die To AIDS, She Is A Great Philanthropist How Dare How Dare.

I’m sorry, did you just evoke the blood of our dead to run away from the most basic scrap of accountability in what is literally the first wave of a lit debate because for the last 10 hours you have refused to take the necessary steps to move on to the next point? Did you... just... evoke the ghosts of gay men that were genocided to, essentially, pull up a smokescreen and run away from being party to queer erasure? Or even just? Giving a source? or admitting you were wrong on one point in a debate? Wow, you really just did that.

Naturally, people involved got pissed. Her Sources ticker hit 100, but at this point, all that haunted her was how completely fucking vile and inappropriate that was in this discussion.

She got blocked. She then tried to glom onto anyone that hadn’t blocked or muted her and run the same argumentation points she had earlier been decimated in the argument with, while yelling “I ship Destiel too! I wanted them to have sex too! Why does this make me the bad guy?” around the block and hoping nobody actually read the thread. She tried to pitch the “headcanons” point of view again, hoping a new audience would lick her boots. She was, largely, ignored; given a few more comments about her leaving the conversation losing all points and only covered in the blood of our dead she was so proud of; blocked by a few more. (unsurprisingly, if you check her actual tweet history, she seems more invested in Megstiel but)

This is when CommaSameleon -- a professor with two lit degrees and a primary focus in teaching the art of Argumentation -- literally -- stepped in. She initially tried to engage the fact that, well, this woman not only can’t argue out of a paper sack but wasn’t even arguing, she was just running in circles and distracting from all the points and hadn’t addressed a single lit point directly while preaching down at people. But Sam, also, noticed something. This woman kept changing things like “queerphobia” to “homophobia.” Sam mentioned this kinda puts off TERF vibes (I think Sam picked up on the gendering thing herself too.)

Her response? Which she deleted since? But Discord’s embed helpfully saved?

Her inacted non-apologies remain weak, especially in any form of debate be it lit or now queer topics.

Oh I’m sorry, let’s recap her viewpoints: TERF is a slur. “They” is made up and should be avoided at all costs. The blood of dead gay men are a token to use in a lit debate you’re avoiding responsibility in. After this, “authors are headcanons” is suddenly not your worst take, but fascinating that you 13 times didn’t even read the blatant ass screenshot. And I mean, these weren’t subtle or easy to miss these 13 times.

100. She had 100 chances, literally, on a timer, to give a source or shut up with her platforming until she had one. Instead, she chose every rabbit hole she could manifest to disappear into, only to be met by another request for a source, and not moving on until we address the first points. We’ve given ours, now you give yours. Instead, you choose this. This is the hill you choose to die on, rather than admitting, “Sorry, I guess I was wrong” or “I guess I heard that somewhere, my bad.” 100 chances. 13 direct QT requests to address gender which she replied to but didn’t reply to until cornered (and still didn’t, truly, reply to), and “TERF is a slur.” Oh, and after waving around the dead men’s blood she also suddenly Can’t Be A Terf Because She Adopted Two Trans Kids. Lord help those children. Or, you know, the more realistic thing is she’s just manifesting all kinds of bullshit at this point to save face, which is probably why she deleted all the related tweets that show she’s a giant-ass TERF.

So anyway, this is very much a lesson on:

Paying attention to how people manipulate conversation to erase genuine discussion and debate.

Paying attention to WHY they do it. Motivation on methods and tactics will clear up a lot.

Figuring out HOW they try to sound woke about shit and when it’s entirely fucking vile and inappropriate to pull

And by all above points, figuring out that these people are among us, and how NOT to let them influence your conversations.

I don’t care if it’s about a discussion on a ship or show or anything else. People do this. A lot. Extremely dedicatedly, if the 100 asks doesn’t make that clear.

Stop letting people railroad your conversations with disingenuous bullshit.

So anyway in honor of this I made everyone a gif

Use at will. It’s tagged anti-terf if you want to use the search feature on it.

UPDATE:

Just went and checked. She went and deleted literally her entire side of the conversation, hundreds if not thousands of tweets. Luckily, Ezra mentioned repeatedly -- and I do trust them inherently -- that they were saving the entire conversation, so that zip file exists somewhere. How fascinating, after she accused us that we would want to delete tweets. Someone realized they had a bad look and giant failure all around.

Also, a related anon that links to an earlier part of this conversation I didn’t even document where she was crying about “cis erasure” [x] This shit went on so long I legit forgot about that.

#supernatural #spn #destiel #anti-terf #debate

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