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yellowbluemoonshine · 1 year

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League of Villains Redemption Discourse;

Its been a while since i’ve been talking about redemption for villains because it kinda become obvious that it will happen at the end of Bnha and all but there is still some discourse for villains, especially league of villains. That ‘Gentleman and La Brava fits redeemable’ type of villain better. That characters like ‘Twice are redeemable’ but Dabi isnt or Dabi can be saved but Shigaraki is bad blah blah blah. Like, the idea that ‘certain type of villain deserve to be saved’ while other doesnt. It is also ironic that people think characters like Shigaraki, Dabi and Toga are too far gone or they think this wasnt hinted. Well, here we go.

I would like to focus on league of villains to try to explain why i disagree with those opinions.

First of all, Shigaraki and Dabi’s redemption is hinted since the beginning.

The first time we saw Shigaraki, he was heaviely hinted that he is abuse victim and he was groomed. This his literally first introduction and story is telling you that this character is victim. And he had a conversation with Deku at the mall. Loosing his mind while saying ‘He hates Allmight because people are laughing as if there is noone he couldnt save’. And we get a little flashback form his childhood, ‘Noone saved you, didnt they?’. His entire character literally screams ‘SAVE ME. WHY NOONE SAVE ME? I HATE EVERYONE BECAUSE THEY DONT SAVE ME’.

And Overhaul arc. It is abour saving Eri who is parallel with Shigaraki, once again it is about saving Tomura in a parallel and we also seeing Shigaraki is capable of caring about other people which is a positive character development. And MVA arc is even more obvious. Not only story making his story more empathic because it is showing how tragic it is but also because we meet with Tenko who is kind kid who would help outcasts and well, Tomura even after ewvrything does the same with league. Showing that his inner kindness didnt disappear. Which is even making it more obvious.

Theme of Bnha is questioning the meaning of hero. Main character who wants to SAVE people in a fake hero society and his enemy who is entire character is about SAVE MEEEE, never really had choice because he was kidnapped by big evil, turns out still caring people and even helping them just like he used to be as kid. Its so obvious when Deku is like I WANNA SAVE PEOPLE and Shigaraki is like SAVE MEEE so yeah, well, it was always hinted that Shigaraki will be saved by Deku. Of course, he could die by being saved, we wouldnt know at first but one thing is sure that he would be saved. Shigaraki’s story didnt change. He was always redeemable and waiting to be saved. And the more story goes on, he only proved this more. Because in stories, positive character developments usually means noble death or redemption.

Btw, i dont think he will die because after everything happenned in story, there is no point of him dying. It also loose the point of being saved.

And Dabi.

This one is tricky since Dabi was mysterious character. I think two things make kinda hint that he will most likely get redemption. 1- He is heaveily hinted that he was Todoroki. He is doing what he is doing because he was failed by abusive hero. He is very similar to Earlyroki. So there is family drama there. Shouto is already tragic character in a positive story, so i dont see him ever killing his brother or something. Not to mention, if he is Todoroki, it would mean, he became villain because of his hero father so killing victim of hero, instead of saving would be very bad look. Not to mention, during the story, Dabi acts like dark cop or something. (Not to mention Frainkeinstein parallels). Despite revenge plan, he seems to care about morals, justice and even feeling remorse. What happens later, it doesnt change his story because he is parallel with Shigaraki a lot too.

2- Save the cat moment.

A “save the cat” is a moment, very early on in the story, where we meet or see our hero do something nice that makes us like him and say, “I want to follow this person's story.” It's important to have it because you want your audience to be sympathetic or empathetic towards your protagonist.

This was mentioned by @hamliet and other people. The scene when Dabi decides to spare Aoyama, despite noticing him. Note; Dabi didnt know Aoyama was traitor. ‘Save the cat moment’ for a villain can be hint as a possibe future redemption for him.

And others. League of villains. I think their redemption werent necessarely hinted or it was necessary. I think for them MVA arc hinted it.

For Toga, we didnt know her full story and life until MVA arc and it turned out she is also victim of society, not just crazy villain. She is parallel with one of the main kids like Shigaraki and Dabi so assuming that ‘if Shigaraki and Dabi are gonna be saved by Deku and Shouto, Toga will be most likely be saved by Uraraka’ wouldnt be weird. Not to mention is this whole arc was about the family bond between league, that they are capable of caring other people. Same for Twice, Spinner and Mr Compress too. Because story is telling you that those people are here because society failed them and they have still humanity in them, they are not doing what they are doing because of evil but because they are victims so it wouldnt be weird to assume that whether they will get redemption or noble death, like Twice did.

‘Characters like Gentleman and La Brava are better example of redeemable villains’

No, they are not. They are not even real criminals. They never even did serious crime. I like them but they are like joke villains, they are not meant to be ‘actually’ villains. Whole point of ‘redemption’ is people who did commit serious crimes. If there is no actually wrong action, then we wouldnt need redemption at first place. I think redemption exist for characters like league.

Note; Of course, other villains can get redemption too, i am just focusing on them because they are good example to use. Especially since even characters in story told them, characters like Stain and Overhaul and even Redestro seen as ‘better person’ just because they have ‘goal’, just because they dont want destruction, like Tomura did. But in the end, Tomura proved them wrong because despite being at the lowest of low, he still showed more humanity and positive character development than them, just by treating his comprades better.

And i also dont like it when people see one league of member more redeemable than another. Especially with Twice and others. Because Twice is very obvious when it comes to showing how much he cares about others. He is obvious victim. He is not ugly victim like Tomura, Dabi and Toga. But the thing is;

Every member of League has side that makes them look irredeemable but also they have their own redeemable features.

Tomura's desire to destruction makes him look ireedemable but he is the only villain who never had a choice at life, he feel miserable with his life and he is very kind leader to his comprades.

Dabi’s distancing himself from others, using people he cares, even trying to kill his brother just for revenge against his father makes him look irredeemable but he is the only villain in league that feels remorse for killing others. He has strong sense of responsibility and he doesnt think its justified. He doesnt even plan to live long. He just wants to punish his father for his sins and thats it.

Toga’s self centered side, not caring about others without remorse makes her look irredeemable but one, she is the only one who born with serial killer quirk, with urges, like damn and second, this one is interesting. Compared to Shigaraki and Dabi, Toga never once had a grudge against people who hurted her. She never hated the society, heroes, people for calling her monster. She just accept this monster label and decide to live her life according to it.

Twice, Spinner, Compress arent different from them. Their redeemable side is how much they care about league and how much they go for their friends but they also kill many people and they dont seem to care which makes them look irreedemable too. Basically, it is pointless to separate one from another.

Also, i think it is kinda wrong to decide who ‘deserve’ redemption (i am talking about hero characters because you can always hate bad writing) because it not up to you to decide. It is up to you to do right thing by giving them a chance to rehabilate and changing or not will be theirs. Well, it is complicated.

Point of league of members isnt that they are just pitifull victims or they are just evil. The thing is they are bunch of losers. And thats what makes them beautiful.They are mentally ill victims. They need help and they need to be stopped at the same time. They lash out because they are messed up. Their violence arent justified because there is no such a thing that violence that can be justified. Violence is bad. But you can understand where it comes from. The thing about league is especially main villain trio, they are written to be metahpor for pain of abuse/society victims. Some victims never get saved, some of them make wrong choices and they messed up but some of them can still be rehabilate which is why redemption is exist. It makes sense why they get redemption because they are not bad people. And redemption isnt a bad thing either, it means taking responsibility and healing. It also fits to their characters so its good writing, well, hopefully it will written good later as well.

#bnha #bnha redemption #redemption arcs #Villains #league of villains #bnha analysis #Heroes #mha meta #shigaraki tomura #dabi #todoroki touya #toga himiko #twice #jin bubaigawara #spinner #mr compress #fandom critcism #writing criticism #writing advice

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bnha-more-like-bnh-gay · 1 year

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I got a prompt for you! Prompt: Tired of the daily abuse he suffers, Izuku makes the choice to run away, hoping for his mother's life to get better once he's gone. Keep in mind this Izuku isn't blinded by the flashiness of heroics and gave up on it a long time ago.

So as Izuku wanders the streets alone, he meets up with some of the future LOV members such as Dabi, Toga, Spinner, Compress, ect.

Together they form a found family with a mission to work their way up to expose hero society and change it for the better (instead of whatever the hell the LOV were doing)

HELLO, I AM SO SORRY THIS TOOK SO LONG, SCHOOL AND MY BRAIN FUCKED ME OVER, BUT Y E S!!!!! I LOVE

Okay, imma be honest, a large part of this is going to involve toga, because I love her so much and she deserves so much better than she got, and she and izuku would’ve been such good friends if they had met earlier

Tw: for bullying and self esteem issues (a lot of self blaming) and as a general rule for my headcanons,,,,,, ✨angst✨

Kaachan and his ✨henchmen✨ had been getting worse lately. Well, ever since his “diagnosis,” it had been getting worse and worse, but izuku was about to reach is breaking point

Every day, he heard about how it was his fault that his father left, that no one loved or cared about him, that the world would be better off without him, that his mother would be better off without him.

He could see how tired she was, he could tell that the bills were starting to stack up, and that kaachan repeatedly busting his hearing aids was Not Helping.

Really, izuku knew they were right (they’re not, I’ll fight them). If he wasn’t such a burden on his mother, she’d probably be a lot happier. She’d probably smile more. Sing more. Hell, her husband wouldn’t have left her if it hadn’t been for him!

His mom worked long hours, so he’d often wander through the streets if he didn’t have too much homework. It was rather peaceful in the early hours of the morning when his mother had the night shift and izuku would find his only friends in the alley cats

That being said, izuku also knew it was rather dangerous in dark alleyways during nightfall. Especially for a quirkless kid. But, that had never stopped him before, and so, when he hears muttering from a few streets over, he silently, curiously, stupidly! Izuku, turn back now! The rational part of his brain reprimanded.

He didn’t listen

Eventually, he found a girl in one alley, only a few turns away from his, she seemed to be taking to herself?

Well. Izuku wasn’t one to judge. Especially when he did the same thing!

But she seemed to be in distress. Her muttering was getting louder, and seemed to be turning into a full on beat down of her own misgivings

Again, izuku could relate

He approached her, asking if she was okay. He made sure to stay several meters away, he might not have much self preservation, but he wasn’t stupid

She looked at him frantically. Oh kami, why did she have a knife?! (Please imagine the vine there) she was telling him to stay back, too

But again, when has izuku ever done what people tell him to?

He tells her his name and tries to reassure her that he’s not going to hurt her, that she’s safe

It takes a while, but she is eventually able to calm down a bit

It’s strange really, two kids who couldn’t have been out of middle school out in the middle of the night. But, they started to talk.

For the first time since he was 4, izuku had someone he could consider a friend? Well. Aside from the cats, of course!

Toga was so kind! And she was just as excitable as him! She really liked cute things, so he decided that he had to show her all the pictures of his alley cat friends!

She. Loved. Them.

He taught her how to get close with them! You just had to be a little patient! She wasn’t the best with that, but that was okay! She would do anything for a friend, and her new friend really liked these cats! So, she could totally be patient for them!!

It was worth it too! They were so cute, and izu-Chan looked even cuter holding them!! (Not an izutoga ship, she just loves cute things)

The two young teens (I imagine they’re like,,, 13 and 14 around now? Maybe 14 and 15? Toga runs away after she graduates middle school at 15, so like,,,, around there), as the weeks go on and they get to know each other, toga begins to open up about her family’s hatred and suppression of her quirk, and izuku tells her about his quirklessness, the bullying, and the stress he puts on his mother

She is incredibly protective of him. That’s her little brother/best friend/only person who cares about her/her person.

He’s the same with her, really, just shows it a bit differently. Has 1000000% written 100+ page PowerPoints on how once she is and that she can do anything she puts her mind to

She’s more action and physical based. She’s very affectionate, she hugs him as often as she can. They’re both touch starved, and she knows she’s not the best with words. So, she steals shit for him.

He doesn’t know that it’s stealing at first, when she shows up with a new notebook after kaachan burned another one. She doesn’t get why he’s so worried about her stealing at first. It’s only from big companies and corporations that could afford to lose a few notebooks every now and then. He just doesn’t want her to get caught though. But she’s safe! Really!!

They find Dabi a few months later. He’s older than them by 7 and 8 years respectively, and he’s kind of an asshole. But toga likes his spunk and disregard for the rules. And izuku likes that he doesn’t care about quirks

Dabi and toga shit talk katsuki and I will not be told otherwise. Izuku feels bad at first, but they kinda put it into perspective of like, “how would you feel if he was doing/saying this stuff to/about us?” And izuku just like >:0

Obviously it took a while, and he still doesn’t know that they made shirts with katsuki’s face in the 🚫 sign, but I like to imagine that they show up to pick izuku up from school wearing them and bakugku had a conniption

Toga and izuku don’t actually run away until toga’s graduation from middle school

Some of her classmates pulled a really asshole prank on her and she had a panic attack. She ran away from the ceremony thing and was later found by a frantic izuku and dabi (her brothers)

She told them that she couldn’t go back. That her parents were mad at, no, disgraced by her

Dabi was mad. “More bitch ass parents. The worlds just fucken’ full of them”

- dabi, 2xxx

He offers to kill them for her. Izuku tells him no :( shame.

Let’s just say that this is around the time bakugou says his infamous “swan dive” comment and the sludge villain incident (I know I think both toga running away and that whole deal would happen around the relative same few months, so let’s just push them together! Why not!)

And the three decide to pull a little disappearing act

Well. Mainly toga and izuku. Dabi pulled his disappearing stunt a while ago. He gives them pointers. Dramatic bitch

Let’s be real, the three of them are all dramatic bitches

Izuku leaves a letter to his mom, explaining that he’s sorry for putting her in such a difficult place, and that he hopes she can find happiness, and that he’ll miss her.

:((((((((((((

They end up crashing a couple towns away in an abandoned building. Not very safe, but. Abandoned. Sooo

Toga says that the building is just like them

Abandoned

Dabi tells her not to look too deeply into it, but izuku thinks about that statement a lot

Spinner and dabi both have like… 0 respect for heroes. -10 actually. But, spinner is quite interested by these three vagabond’s plan to expose corrupt heroes and make society a better place, so, he tags along.

Mr. Compress catches dabi trying to pick pocket someone.

It goes badly </3

Dabi’s slight of hand just needs a bit of practice, and who’s better to teach him than a world class thief?

No one. That’s who.

Mr. Compress cannot believe he’s going to have to parent these teens and young adults. Fuck man. Can he leave now? He didn’t ask for this, he just wanted to share some tricks to the next generation of thieves, now he’s listening to this green child explain their plot for world domination?!

Oh, what’s that? It’s not world domination? Fine. Guess he’s going to teach these four how to steal shit because he will not be caught dead with criminals who don’t know how to complete a heist

Obviously, they go after endeavor first.

They take great joy in destroying him.

What?? Just because they aren’t the league of villains doesn’t mean our vigilante crew doesn’t enjoy some sweet sweet revenge on those who have hurt their little make shift family!

Mr. Compress is not a dad. He’s just not.

Did he show izuku all his masks and listen to the boy nerd out about them and their different histories and design origins? Yes. Did he think it was adorable? Yes.

That means nothing though and you can’t prove anything!

Spinner and dabi are the “cool” big brothers

Read: fucking dumbasses with issues with authority

It’s fine

Toga and izuku are feral sinanon rolls with issues with authority

Mr. Compress went from following his father’s footsteps in living life as a thief to overthrowing the hero commission with these kids who are all over a decade younger than him

Love that for him.

Dabi learns how to make katsudon for izuku when he’s homesick

Izuku helps dabi and toga deal with their quirk issues

They have a few run ins with stain, (spinner fanboys)

Izuku starts making them gear!

I don’t know why I love izuku making gear and tech, but he’s just such a smart and chaotic lad that I think it’s perfect for him

Definitely hacks into U.A. And plays online chess with nezu

He’s getting better

Nezu has heard whispers of their little group, and is quite excited to see how everything plays out!

I hope you liked thisss!!! Again, I am SO SORRY that this took so long. I had it in my drafts for about a week and worked on it when I could, but brain and homework were djsjcinsignaj

I love this thoughhhh!! Sorry if spinner and mr. Compress are ooc, I really don’t remember their personalities too much 😅 but I hope it was okay anyway!!!

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mettywiththenotes · 1 year

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Between the fact that Dabi's big attack involves compressing his heat energy inside of himself and the absurdly theatrical bow, I keep thinking he's either paying homage to Mr. Compress or trying to steal his riz. Either way, I love it. lmao

YEAH ngl I read the word compress in that chapter, saw the bow and thought "HE LEARNED FROM THE BEST" lol

Dabi's carrying on the legacy of Theatrical Villains

#man i wish they would interact again #what would compress say?#compress: hey dabi nice to see you again. i have a few constructive criticisms about your dancing-#dabi: can it magician #thank you for the ask!😊#asks with metty #bnha asks #bnha manga spoilers #bnha 386

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playerkingsley · 1 year

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campaign 3, episode 51 spoilers:

#critical role #cr spoilers #vax’ildan #vorb #sorry about your boyfriend. yeah no he got compressed into a dark sphere #and the nature of his existence is even more liminal & uncertain than before

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ohheyhowdy · 1 year

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HASNT HE BEEN THROUGH ENOUGH

#critical role #cr spoilers #critical role spoilers #vax no no no #they compressed my boy

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ahmoseinarus · 7 months

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Time Limit

Whumptober 2023 Day 13 Cold Compress | Infection | "I don't feel so good." Mind the tags for medical grossness!!!! Time Limit - Ahmose_Inarus - Critical Role (Web Series) [Archive of Our Own]

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scriptmyworld · 1 year

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we were so happy that day….

#this is in reference to vax appearing #before he got COMPRESSED #critical role #cr spoilers #cr liveblog #vax’ildan

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kazjester · 1 year

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I saw this tweet and immediately this idea came to mind.

#terra #critical vacuuming error #joke art #vacuum vore #vacuum #suction #compressed #squished #furry #anthro #weird #my ocs

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lumikelloja · 1 year

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his spidey senses are tingling

ID and (better quality) stills under the cut!

[ID: An illustrated gif of Orym of the Air Ashari from Critical Role. He is standing in front of the red moon, Ruidus, and its red storm. He is hurt and clutching his bleeding sword arm with his other hand. He’s leaning slightly to the left, as if listening to something, and his eyes open to stare at the viewer after green squiggles indicate that he noticed something. End ID.]

#critical role #orym of the air ashari #bells hells #critical role fanart #tw blood #cw blood #cw bruises #orym my beloved #hello this was my first time making a gif #i've been in a trance drawing him. first i kidna wanted to do an orpheus-kinda au but it turned into this #funny how art just makes itself sometimes #i stressed over the (non-existent) apogee solstice battle all morning and this was the end result #can i get a wahoo #anyways yayyyy art!!#and yayyy no tpk!#my art #shhh dont go there (the tag is for my own archiving purposes #) my art style changes every five damn seconds #oh no mobile Really compresses the quality. oh well.

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gay-victorian-astronomer · 6 months

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🌹

OBSERVER (Sight) — Your reflection matches your internal state better now, at least. Cracked, distorted. A large piece of it is missing entirely.

#it’s angsting time #Kim critical failed a check so he gets to break something in an emotional outburst #as a treat #compression fracture

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hostilecityshowdown · 1 year

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march 31st, 1996: diesel v. the undertaker, wrestlemania 12. 'taker improved what would become known as "the streak" to 5-0. his wrestlemania shirts emblazened with slogans such as "let the body count continue" began to cycle onto the merchandise tables leading up to and following this match, foreshadowing a new dimension to the deadman's character: the lord of darkness.

#flashing #wwf #[ colour commentary ]#undertaker #kevin nash #big daddy cool diesel #i got nothing for this one folks i found this in my folder and had no recollection of making it. this is an intricate ritual however.#no i am not accepting criticism /j #[ slater ]#diesel changed him he mwde him more evil et cetera.#this was originally one gif [my preference] but it had to be compressed to hell and back so. excuse any difference in quality i am not good #at splitting gifs up and optimising them for tumblr #long post #furthering my taker/diesel hate marriage agenda as i lay here. my soft tissues imploding /j

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violetlunette · 2 years

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I saw your anti-lov posts and god do they explain everything i dislike about the league.

The thing is, i like the concepts of each league member, but the way they're handled just falls completely flat.

The one i think the most about is Mr Compress. I love phantom thieves and they're my favourite character archetype (which is why i also like monoma and sad that hori caved into fan pressure to make him a joke character after his initial introduction, but thats another rant). Mr Compress, until that dabi revealed himself, NEVER hinted at the whole stealing for the greater good angle. Hell, gentle is more of a phantom thief than Compress is! It feels like it was tacked on to give him a motivation which sucks since he could have been an interesting character.

He's supposed to be a thief with morals yet i see no morals from him or the league.

Honestly its the same issue with stain. Show don't tell. We are told Stain wants to get rid of 'false' heroes and the corruption of society like we are told Mr Compress wants to reform society for the better. We see them senslessly kill people with no regard or indication that they are part of the corruption. We are told society is corrupt but never SHOWN.

We never see greedy heroes and the sole 'evil' hero was endeavour and even then he gets 'redeemed' (he's working towards it but the point is he's the only one we can point at and say 'your fucked up'). We never see the heroes be corrupt or hoard wealth or any of the sort! We don't ever see how heroes perpetuate the cycle that produces villains which makes the league unsympathetic.

This extends to bakugou as he should be the perfect cautionary tale embodying society faults and how heroes focused less on saving and more on money and fame. So many characters had the chance to be that but they get put in the right and their consequences ignored.

And even then, the league's action never addresses any systemic issues. We don't see them exposing endeavour or other heroes like them (that was all on dabi and he just wanted to hurt endeavour so not selfless at all), we don't see them exposing quirk discrimination nor do we see them HELP ANYONE! if theyre meant to be revolutionaries, they need to care for people OUTSIDE of each other! But they don't so they all end up as morally bankrupt villains who pretend to be noble.

And even then, there's a teeny tiny detail that the 'moral' members should have had a problem with.

The nomus.

Why do the other members of the league never question the nomus? I doubt none of them know the implications that a person was experimented on and turned into a puppet. Why was this not something spinner (the most 'moral' member) took an issue with? In fact, I'm surprised that wasn't a plot point for the league! Why weren't there more people who took issues with Nomus and how they were produced? It feels very strange to ignore to me. That could have easily been a reason why other villains didn't like the league! They experimented onto people! Why are the implications of the nomus so heavily ignored?

It infuriates me since the MLA are right there and are already much more complex villains who could have shaken up society and bring into question the heroes better! There's a hero in the MLA! Why couldn't there be more? Why are the league, the ones who don't have a distinct purpose nor do they do anything ASIDE from destruction the central focus? Oh right AFO and all that.

TLDR: i really don't like how the villains in the series are handled as what they say never matches with what we're told and we never see the corruption heroes perpetuate. I'm also confused on why nomus are glossed over in universe from a 'holy shit these were people' stand point and i also wish the MLA were the central antagonists rather than the league as they make more sense and can showcase hero society better.

Now sweetie, don’t hold back! Tell Looney how you really feel. (Lol, no, I love this.) And YES. Yes, to all this. There was potential, but either Hori didn’t know how to handle the villains or someone at Shounen Jump got in the way. And you brought up a good point about the Nomus. Why does no one even blink at this shit? I also love that you brought up the fact that despite the manga constantly saying that the heroes are just as bad as the villains, there is a significant slant between the two. And guess who has the higher moral ground? (hint: NOT THE TERRORISTS!!) The LOV of villains at the end of the day is just a bunch of entitled kids throwing a fit that can’t do what they want. Yes, bad stuff happened to them. No, it shouldn’t have happened. No, they didn’t deserve it. But that doesn’t justify all the terrible things they did. But I digress. The MLA is a lot more compelling as a) they’re more of a threat, b) They have a leg to stand on as they tried peaceful protests in the past but were ignored.

BUT YES!! The nomus are the most wasted and glossed over plot point! And two of them were childhood friends of two main characters! (Izuku and Aizawa.) Plus, think of the angst if AFO had been smart enough to use Nana’s corpse as a nomu! Wasted! The nomus were WASTED!!

But oh well. As said in the past, I intend to do a deeper dive when the manga is finished. But you brought up some amazing points!

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