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orbmanson7 · 10 months

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Time to analyze the next part of the "The Sides Need a Nice Day" video, this time it's Virgil and Roman.

(If you want to read the first part about Patton and Logan, read that here.

If you want to read the last part about Janus and Remus, go here.)

Moments here are less about foreshadowing and more about recollection and the current standings amongst the sides, most notably how Roman feels about his place after all the events in SvS:R (and likely the FwSA Asides episode).

Virgil starts off by stating he noticed Roman being whinier and moodier lately, more so than usual. It's possible at this point that he doesn't have full context from the SvS:R episode as he wasn't in attendance, though we know he's at least aware of Janus' involvement/acceptance because he brings it up in the FwSA Asides episode.

He describes Roman as being a bummer, and Virgil (like Patton) is able to pick up on this because it's something he sees in himself enough to recognize it. He empathizes with Roman even if he doesn't fully understand why Roman feels the way he does, because he's been in a spot like that before himself, moody and down in the dumps.

He says that he figured something needed to be done and says he might as well be the one to do it. It doesn't seem like this is out of obligation, which is the way he's attempting to frame it, but rather that he's noticed Roman feels down and has a desire to help him out.

He saw that Patton was relatively successful at cheering Logan up so he decides to give that method a try. However, he uses it in a very different way.

First things first, he immediately pops in, startling Roman, which you'd think would not be the right play here, but Virgil isn't sucking up to Roman's ego to cheer him up today, he's just trying to give him something fun to do and focus on instead.

Virgil doesn't start off by explaining what he's doing, he just gets started. When Roman yells, asking what is wrong with him (because he's a king of deflection), Virgil then explains in simple terms (with some free insults thrown in) what it is that they're doing. He specifically states "we are going to..." throughout this, implying this is meant to be a group activity.

I want to point out this difference from Patton and Logan's version, as Patton had instead chosen solo activities for Logan (as those are what he likes) and was just tagging along the whole time, but they did not participate in those activities together.

Virgil and Roman, however, are doing these activities with each other.

The reason for this may tie back to love languages, interestingly enough. While the intention lends to all of the video falling under the 'acts of kindness' love language, each part has something specific to the side of focus, as well.

For Patton and Logan, Patton being knowledgeable about what Logan enjoyed without asking and then presenting the activities to him instead of participating alongside him would technically count as 'gift-giving'. And for Virgil and Roman, Virgil finding common ground the two of them share and finding similar interests to further their bond, sharing and spending time together, would be 'quality time'.

And later, for Janus and Remus, Janus knowing what Remus enjoys but not participating directly in the activity with him could count as 'gift-giving', but also validating his interests and thoughts could count (in a way) as 'words of affirmation' (which I'll discuss more in the next post).

So, Virgil has already planned for these activities to be done together with Roman. The activities in question, however, do not all require a second party, but are more enjoyable with one.

They start with listening to that new rendition of We Didn't Start the Fire, and Roman is confused as to what he's hearing because it's not what he knows or expects. He's caught off guard because he believed one thing but was instead told another.

Wonder what that's reminiscent of...

Virgil quickly explains what it actually is, as well as his opinion that it's better.

What Virgil is trying to do here is what a lot of people enjoy doing - sharing music that they love! Virgil is aware that Roman enjoys music and he knows Roman likes this particular song, so Virgil, having heard the new rendition and liking it, believed that sharing it with Roman might allow for yet another shared interest of theirs. He's trying to find more things they can both enjoy together, which is very thoughtful and nice of him to do. It shows that Virgil genuinely considers them friends and they've grown much closer over all this time.

When Roman doesn't seem all that pleased about the song, however, Virgil is VERY quick to offer "I've got others" to salvage his attempt. He doesn't sound upset, though, simply prepared as though he anticipated this could happen. Roman gladly takes the offer because things have already started off in an unexpected way for him and he would rather find something familiar next.

He seems excited by the next activity, only to be confused and somewhat alarmed at what it turns out to be instead. Virgil explains and even states that he thought Roman would be interested in the Disney creepypastas, again as something that can act as a shared interest between them. We've seen, long long ago in The Dark Side of Disney episode, that Roman and Virgil do already have a shared interest very similar to this, so it's understandable that Virgil would attempt to build on a foundation that's already been established.

When Roman says he's done and wants to move on, Virgil simply accepts it, just says "cool" and brings up the next options to pick. It's interesting to see how Virgil is so accepting of this despite Roman's dismissals so far. He doesn't appear to be offended that Roman isn't really liking his suggestions, likely because Virgil has either prepared for this possibility or because he knows he's building on their shared interests that already exist.

To give an example, if you and your friend like the same tv show, but you disagree on your favorite character, that doesn't mean you don't both still love the show or can even enjoy watching it together. It just means you enjoy different aspects of it, and that bond isn't ruined in any way, even if it could potentially be a stronger bond if you both liked the same character.

In this case, for Virgil, he already knows he and Roman have these shared interests, he just wants to strengthen that bond, so throwing ideas out there and seeing what works doesn't have to be stressful. It is surprising that he's not more nervous about the potential of a worst-case scenario, considering that's kind of his norm, but this may just be because he's more focused on giving Roman something nice to do and so he's less worried about his own thoughts in the moment.

Moving on, when Virgil gives the next options, Roman looks concerned. They've already had two strikes, two instances where he thought he'd get one thing when it was really another. So now he's worried what the next option will entail. Will it be another mistake?

He's unfortunately right to worry because Virgil's attempt to offer a spider as an animal companion doesn't sit well with Roman. He is extremely uncomfortable and is more desperate to move on to something else rather than stay there any longer.

I want to point this out, that Roman is still participating in all of this. Having had three strikeouts in a row, it would make sense for him to assume none of these ideas were going to be something he liked and he could give up and just go back to what he was doing earlier. But instead, he chooses to try another option with Virgil.

I think this may be significant for his character, likely because Roman wants this to work. Whether that is because it's a distraction from how he feels (even if it's not the most welcome one) or because he wants to enjoy himself and not be alone in all of this, he is still willing to try more options until they find something that works.

It showcases Roman's tenacity and perseverance in an interesting way, that he will keep going until he finds the right solution (not too little, not too big, but just right).

That being said, it doesn't mean he has to do it with a smile on his face, as he's clearly frustrated once he sees what his next option will be.

It seems like a nice activity that he would normally enjoy, but considering how every previous activity had already turned out differently than he'd hoped, he is now expecting the worst.

Virgil follows through, reading him a fairy tale, and of course, tells the original version of The Little Mermaid. Roman is not pleased by this, seeming increasingly bothered and upset, because yet again, this isn't what he expected and ultimately not what he wanted.

He eventually yells out in frustration his problem with the story, saying that that's not how the story goes.

Virgil argues that he's telling the real story (which he is) and attempts to tack on the point about the mermaid being rewarded in the end for her selflessness, as though in an attempt to placate to Roman a little bit.

But Roman cuts him off, declaring that the prince in the story wouldn't be that "stupid or mean," because he's a prince, and that's not how princes are meant to be.

"A prince always does the right thing, the good thing."

And then he suggests that maybe that's not the real ending to the story.

What Roman is doing here, which should be obvious, is projecting his insecurities (mostly about the end of SvS:R) that have yet to be resolved onto this other story. He's giving his thoughts on his own identity issues and personal struggles.

He was faced with an enormous change in his reality after SvS:R, having been led to believe for so long that he was doing what was right and good, that he was the good guy, the hero. But then he was slapped in the face with the realization that there's far more grey area than he could ever possibly imagine, and that the moral compass he'd been using to guide his righteous path hadn't been as righteous and reliable as he'd thought. He's stuck in a position of having done what he believed to be right and now being told that it was wrong, which feels unfair because he thought he was seen as a hero and now he's being told that he's not.

It's an extremely sobering and depressing notion that Roman hasn't even begun to address yet.

Virgil seems to realize that what Roman is getting at isn't his dislike of the story, it's that he wants comfort right now, and stories can provide that when used in certain ways, such as for escapism.

Escapism is something both Virgil and Roman would likely understand rather well.

For Virgil, it's a way to relieve stress and anxiety, to get away from the terrors of the real world for just a moment.

For Roman, it's a way to indulge in fantasy and pretend those troubles are far away. He can imagine a way to fight them off or avoid them completely as if they no longer exist.

Escapism can be dangerous if not reeled in, though. You have to face reality at some point or you'll never grow and improve yourself.

But right now, Virgil's whole reason for doing this was to cheer Roman up, to make him feel better, so if that meant letting Roman have his fantasy instead, just for a while, then he would do that.

So he alters the story he was telling, gives it something more along the lines of its Disney rendition's ending, makes it more saccharine and sweet, and this gets Roman to finally relax, which shows how much this method really works for him (and how much he may rely on it, too).

Now, the story points that Virgil mentions are very intriguing. Firstly, they are different than the Disney version, so he's not just ripping that off, he's making some of this up but still has it based on the original tale.

The parts he changes? He mentions the prince realizing the marriage was a sham, the prince finding the little mermaid before she turned to foam and saving her, that the prince proclaimed his love for her, that the little mermaid realized the prince was good all along, and that they lived happily ever after.

These all sound like wish fulfillments for Roman - things that he specifically would want, as they all center the prince's actions in the story (not the little mermaid's, you know, the titular character).

Now, if I had to guess, I believe this is meant to be taken as an analogy for an ideal version of Roman being Thomas' hero, where Roman is acting as the prince and Thomas is acting as the little mermaid, and I'll explain why.

I believe the marriage being a sham part is less of an analogy and more of a reference to the wedding vs callback scenario, and saying it was a sham is meant to imply that Janus had set things up (as the supposed bad guy) so that Roman (the heroic prince) would look stupid. Realizing it was a sham puts the prince in a position of power over the one setting the trap, making him appear smarter and confident instead for outsmarting his enemy.

The part about the prince finding the mermaid before she turned to foam and saving her might be in reference to Thomas' mental state getting worse, losing himself, so much so that Remus had come along with all those intrusive thoughts, and if Roman had been able to prevent that whole situation, somehow Thomas would be okay and happier and healthier instead.

Proclaiming love should be obvious, Roman (and all the sides, really) genuinely love and care about Thomas, they want him to be happy and safe and healthy and doing what he loves, even if they all think they each know the best way for that to happen. Declaring his love here may mean that Roman can fully express his passion in what he does for Thomas, because he anticipates reciprocation (as you may in any fairytale). If he declares Thomas as his favorite, as his one & only, then perhaps Thomas would do the same of him? This would definitely show Roman's focus on his self-importance and his desire to be paid attention to and adored in turn.

And the mermaid realizing he was good after all is absolutely a direct reference to the end of SvS:R, because the notion that Thomas would not see Roman as his hero absolutely broke him in that moment. Wanting to indulge in the fantasy that, instead, Thomas realizes he is a hero and good and right after all, is his ideal scenario and an escape from what really happened.

And then a classic ending of happy ever after being there is what Roman wants, it's his ultimate ideal. He doesn't care how he gets that ending, so long as he gets it.

Virgil gives him that escape to fantasy, then holds his tongue and runs out of the room before adding "for now." Those words tacked on to the end would bring it all back to reality, because it's true (though quite pessimistic)!

Even if all the ideal parts were to happen, that doesn't mean the story would necessarily be over, or that more events would not then unfold. Roman may be able to get his happy ending, but that doesn't mean the next story won't start right up afterward, throwing everything back into turmoil.

Overall, Virgil was successful in giving Roman something nice that day, specifically something to cling onto while he struggles with the reality of what will inevitably come next. A short reprieve is better than nothing, though.

Now, onto the last part...

#sanders sides analysis #sanders sides #virgil sanders #roman sanders #ts spoilers #long post #orbs thought bubbles #alright one last one I'll do tomorrow cuz ive got another double shift day #these have been fun haha #love some good ol classic roman angst from time to time #:)

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beauty-and-passion · 6 months

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sooooo, latest video

Well... it seems like there is a video XD

Jokes aside, thanks anon for letting me know Mr. Sanders posted a video that was Sanders Sides related. Kudos for that <3

Then... I have some thoughts about this video. Thoughts I will divide into pros and cons, to make everything easier to explain.

If you don’t like long posts or reading criticism of any kind, please save yourself (and myself) some time and ignore this post. I won’t get offended, I promise.

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PROS

A real Aside

It looks like Thomas finally learned the difference between Asides and main episodes. It took him three years, but he finally realized that the Asides should be simple, no plot-related stuff. Good to see he finally got it.

(Still don’t understand why ATHD is a main episode, tho. It’s not plot-related and it’s very clearly more low-effort than FWSA and DWIT. Maybe Thomas didn’t want to leave it all by itself?)

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Some hopes for the characters

I was very relieved to see that the characters’ personalities are not completely butchered. There are a few things I will talk about in the cons section, but the overall vibe has stayed more or less the same. I’m especially relieved Virgil isn’t the fratboy he was in Thomas’ latest Instagram post, in which he talked all fratboy-esque and I almost expected him to bully me and steal my lunch.

The most in characters are Janus and Remus, which is nice to see too. Remus in particular, is still a chaotic rat man and I love him so much.

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Remus is my chaotic child

I personally think the best part of the whole video is Remus saying the others told him he could kill Bing Bong. I laughed so hard, I had to stop the video. That wonderful, chaotic rat man deserves to kill everything, as a treat <3

But actually, everything Remus says is great and that proves he’s the best, in this essay I will-

__________________________________

CONS

A weird start

Let me recap my experience while watching the video for the first time.

So, the video starts and I’m welcomed by this guy with an orange shirt and blue hat, all happy and excited. For a split second, I think he’s Patton… but then, a Patton-esque guy with a sweater appears.

Okay, now I’m confused because I have no idea what’s happening here and don’t know who these guys are - I mean, if sweater guy is Patton, who is the orange guy? The orange side was introduced and I missed it? What’s happening here? Who are they? Are those the Inside Out characters as seen by Thomas? Will these guys meet their Sanders Sides “counterparts”?

But then another guy appears and he looks like Janus, so now I’m really lost because, seriously, who are these people? They call each other by name so they should be the Sides, but they also call the orange guy “Joy”, so who is this guy? Who are they? Are they the Inside Out characters cosplaying the Sides? Or vice-versa? What’s happening here?

I got my answer, only when Virgil appeared and clarified this was all a weird roleplay.

I have several questions:

Was it really necessary?

Why?

No, seriously, why? The Sides are the first to admit they aren’t an exact match to the Inside Out characters, so why doing this? Why flatten their multifaceted roles and personalities to do this? Because Mr. Sanders isn’t able to handle them?

Okay, fine, I know why Mr. Sanders wanted to do this weird roleplay and it could’ve been fun to see the Sides acting as the Inside Out characters… if only the Sides’ personalities stayed the same. But since their personalities are not the same anymore, all the viewers feel are confusion and a weird sense of “something’s wrong here”, which they can’t exactly pinpoint.

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Wrong aesthetics and confused personalities

In order to explain this point, I will bring two examples: Janus and Roman.

First of all, Janus. I know, he’s our beloved sassy queen and we all love him… but his aesthetic in this episode was completely wrong.

Janus is a character who wears layers upon layers of clothing. That’s the first thing you get, the first thing that characterizes him. But in this episode, he wears nothing but a gilet and a scarf. He shows with bare arms, bare shoulders, a deep V-neck and doesn't wear his gloves: for his standard, he’s basically naked.

You can tell me: “It was to match Disgust’s dress”. But since Remus put his own color on the costume, why couldn’t Janus put his own twist too? He’s not doing a perfect cosplay after all. So why not wear a sheer shirt underneath the gilet, to mimic the “nakedness” without showing his skin? Or a greenish/yellow shirt to match both his and Disgust’s aesthetic? I know Mr. Sanders loves to show his skin, but since he created a character whose aesthetic is to not show skin, why “strip” him just to show some more skin? Did Mr. Sanders forgot this aspect of Janus’ character?

But if Janus had at least his face and personality to remind us who he is, Roman had nothing. Seriously, look me in the eye and tell me that, when you saw that guy in orange, you immediately thought: “Ah yes, here is Roman”. There was no way to recognize him, because he had nothing of Roman.

First of all, not a single drop of red anywhere. And I know, roleplay and whatever… but Mr. Sanders is a theater man. He knows the importance of colors. He created seven characters by associating a color to each of them. And yet, Roman appeared without a drop of red, while Remus had no problem turning Fear’s sweater into green.

That doesn't mean Roman had to turn full red, but he could wear a red accessory at least: a bracelet, a necklace, a pin on his hat, whatever. Logan’s tie was blue after all. Or wasn’t Roman allowed to put a twist on his cosplay? This weird roleplay session gives me more questions than answers :/

Second (and most important), Roman’s personality was nowhere to be found. This guy is a more obnoxious, forced version of Roman. When he talked, I didn’t see a person talking: I saw Mr. Sanders reading a script. Or better, screaming a script. Seriously, why was he so loud? Why was he screaming this much, during the roleplay session? I almost got a headache and I don’t get headaches so easily. Seriously, if I needed to hear him louder, I could’ve turned up the volume of my computer, no need to scream this much.

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The makeup and the importance of details

The dark sides’ makeup has been butchered.

Remus’ eyeshadow used to be of a deep dark black/blue/purple. So why is it so light? Because of the roleplay? But it’s still light after the roleplay. What happened, did Thomas finish the eyeshadow? It’s not too expensive, can’t he buy some more?

Same goes for Virgil: his eyeshadow is basically non-existent. And that’s even weirder, considering that in the Christmas episode, he said he wanted darker makeup to match the darkness of his soul. Does that mean his soul isn’t dark anymore?

And then, Janus. My poor, beloved Janus. His makeup used to be impressive, with scales of a deep green/yellow/brown hue: now they look more like a weird, yellow-y rash, with a thin black line crossing them (probably made with an eye pencil?).

I know Thomas doesn’t have the same makeup artist, but experts exist. And if the one he has isn’t doing their job well, then I’m sorry, but he should hire another one. That’s not being mean, that’s being real.

And before any of you says: “That’s just a detail, you’re being nitpicky”... sure, you can see it like that. But let’s say someone gives you a cake and when you see it, there are missing decorations, the fondant doesn’t fully cover the cake and the phrase “Happy birthday” is wonky. And when you eat it, it has a weird aftertaste too. Sure, it was a gift, but would you think “That was the best ever!” or would you think “Thanks, but you could’ve spent a little more time making it better”?

Heck, you can apply the same concept with this post too! If I posted something with incorrect grammar and misspelled words, would you be happy? Or would you think “man, you could’ve spent a couple more minutes to correct it”?

Skipping details doesn’t make me think you care about your work: it makes me think that either you’re lazy or don’t really care. And if you’re okay with something with missing details, good for you. But from someone with a certain degree of expertise/professionalism like Mr. Sanders, I expect something professional too.

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Subtle vs thrown in your face

I enjoy the “Janus being a wine mom” thing: it’s funny, it makes me smile, poor boy dealing with the little shits he has around, please give him wine.

But you know what’s really funny about this? That it’s subtle. It happens once in a while. It’s not thrown in the face. And it’s not thrown in the face like that, with Sides luring Janus with wine, almost as if he’s an alcoholic and you can use wine to make him do anything.

Also because the whole “Janus loves wine” thing doesn’t work too well with the functions he embodies. I mean, this guy is responsible for lies. Do you really think lies and alcohol work well together? You need to be extremely lucid and focused to be a good liar. And I don’t think I have to explain to you why alcohol and self-preservation don’t work well together either.

So seeing him with a glass once in a while is funny, but seeing him being all like “you promised me wine” as if wine is his drug… that’s not funny.

Speaking of things that are funny when not thrown in the face, let’s talk about “falsehood” too.

Just like the wine, falsehood was funny when it came once in a while. It wasn’t a switch you could press and bam, Logan says “Falsehood!”. It was a momentarily outburst because Logan’s main reaction isn’t to yell: Logan’s main reaction is to explain things by using cold logic. Because that’s who he is: logic.

So, when I see him dropping a “falsehood” like this, I don’t enjoy it. I feel it old and stale. And it saddens me too, because it looks like Thomas is using the easiest bait to get his fans’ attention. A bit like a bunch of dangling keys: see? Your favorite character says his catchphrase! Now laugh!

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Apollo gave me the gift of prophecy (or maybe it was just too obvious this would happen)

Right after Roman stops screaming, Virgil starts screaming. And he does it in the most out-of-character way, for the most out-of-character reason.

Since the Q&A episode from season one, Virgil was the first one to tell Thomas that Anxiety looks different for anyone and that he specifically chose the dark persona to keep “everyone’s guard up”.

So why is he complaining so much about a movie representation of Anxiety now? And why should everyone remind him that hey, Anxiety looks different for everyone? He should already know that. He was the first to tell that.

Do you know what this is? No, not a pathetic excuse to talk about a trending topic (i.e. Inside Out). It’s proof I was fucking right and of course I was, because I experienced it too.

What did I say in my old post about the problem with this series? That SaSi doesn’t have an outline. And what happens when you don’t have an outline and, instead of focusing on that project/writing an outline, you do 20 other different things instead? That more time will pass. And the more time will pass, the more you will forget things you already talked about.

Like, you know, a topic from season 1 that was clarified, over and done by the same character who now forgot it.

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The golden goose will never die

Call me a conspiracy theorist or just an old hag with a heart of stone. But I really would like to know the real reason why, deep down, Thomas made this video.

I doubt it was because he missed the Sides and wanted to do something with them. He doesn’t miss them the slightest, it’s quite clear. He doesn’t even care enough to remember what their personalities are supposed to be, how can he "miss" them?

But oh look, there was new merch to advertise. And Inside Out is a trending topic and the fandom knows about the association between SaSi and the movie. So if Mr. Sanders makes the right video at the right time, he can get a lot of views with minimal effort.

But he should advertise a shirt with all Sides in, so he can’t just make a video about Virgil reacting to a trailer: he needs all of the Sides to be there. So, let’s rush a video with the first idea that popped into his mind: that Virgil doesn’t like the Inside Out take on Anxiety.

Maybe that’s not what truly happened in his mind and behind the scenes. Maybe Mr. Sanders really just wanted to make a video with the Sides and I’m a cynical, heartless person. Personally, I would be way happier to know I was wrong and there weren’t ulterior motives behind this video.

But without any actual proof, I won’t believe this video was made just for passion. Passion doesn’t make you skip details. Passion doesn’t make you put on a sloppy video, without taking two more minutes to check if your characters are IC or the topic you want to talk about makes sense.

Believe me, I’m very sad to say this. I don’t want to think all of this. I always try to be optimistic and think good of people. But if this is what I get, how can I believe this video was made with good intentions and no ulterior motives? Especially since it’s coming from a guy who can be accurate, detail-oriented, and very subtle while acting? He did all of this in the past: now it looks like he forgot everything.

If you want to still watch this Aside, do it. If you enjoy it, even better. For me, that was just a tiny waste of time and it left me nothing except a momentary smile. At the end of the day, I don’t even care enough to watch it twice. And for me, that's a failure, coming from a series I used to watch on repeat.

#sanders sides #ask #ts criticism #I guess #thomas sanders #roman sanders #remus sanders #virgil sanders #patton sanders #janus sanders #logan sanders #at this point I'm just sad

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fangirltothefullest · 10 months

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Saw your post about the fandom, and wanted to stop by and say hi! It actually was nice to see that pop up on my dash, cause a lot of people are getting really negative about the waits, and I've seen it get kinda nasty. So seeing you be so genuine about enjoying it is really nice to see. I'm always open to talk about Sanders Sides, though, it's still one of my favorite things even after all this time.

ME TOO! I love it so much and I think... well as a Content Creator myself, I know how hard these past few years have been for me and I am not surprised at all that it's been hard for him and his team so I can be impatient and want more content but also... I can't be mad. A little peak into my brain coming and I apologize if that wasn't what you were looking for but-

I had to close commissions and my own patreon because I had to get a job that could actually support me, and had a TON of personal stuff happened to me and my family IRL that affected a lot of my online presence.

As a consequence I don't post art NEARLY as much as I used to and I found myself feeling EXTREMELY upset about it. I used to even livestream art, can you believe it? 8U

And I sat there worrying I'd never post art again because of the burnout and stress..... and I thought everyone who liked my stuff may leave. Because that's happened before- I was a product, a machine to pump out free stuff for people to enjoy, and when the product stopped coming, people just left. That's SO hard to face as a creator, ESPECIALLY when you are trying to GENUINELY provide your art and works pretty much for free and you're already going through traumatic stuff IRL behind the screen.

To see people getting SO angry with the content that HAS been provided hurts me more than the wait and it's not because I put the man on a pedestal it's because I humanized him. I had a shit few years and so did he. Would it have been nice for him to be like 'hey I need to go on a break for a while I'm sorry', hell yeah but I didn't either. I posted every so often about Going Through It and kicking myself privately because I could barely sketch on paper, much less muster the courage to do a digital piece, but I didn't tell people wehat I was going through until later and even then a lot of my life is private and I haven't disclosed stuff because... it's personal, it's private. Online space isn't supposed to be privy to all my secrets and stuff you know?

So when I see people nitpicking the plushie episode because it's also doubled as an ad for the toys, I want to growl and bite and hiss because it's STILL an episode with an actual PLOT; it's not like the crofters ads. FWSA, the cartoon one, is a 24 minute ASIDES video and was LITERALLY given to us during Covid when EVERYTHING ELSE was shut down. Have I Grown is an hilarious video that also somewhat recaps but less episode recap and more personal sides recaps- seeing how their current mental state is. The Wes Anderson one is literally a Season Recap episode. We got a fucking Janus Cover of an OtGW song and they're all in their casual clothes and that song is about pretending everything is ok just for a littler while and it's STILL technically plot related. WTIT is a fucking ASIDES video that's 28 minutes long AND HAS PLOT! AND THE CANON CONFIRMATION OF THE SUSPECTED ORANGE SIDE!!! Incorrect Quotes was a way for us to see them being silly and lighthearted and so is The Sides Need A Nice Day!

I just- that's a lot more content than I think people realize. Yes he has a full team but that doesn't stop the stress or the burnout, especially when half your fanbase is saying how terrible you're being not being faster.

Not to mention the bloopers and the Gavin Sides and the entire episodes of Roleslaying AND a cartoon therapy have all come out AND he was part of a few song collabs too.

I just.... I can't imagine going through the stresses I went through and how much it would hurt me to provide that much stuff and still have people angry. Do you know how much I've done since Covid? Not nearly as much in terms of BIG PROJECTS.

Sorry if this came off as a rant, I'm just so passionate about this show that I love to much! >//<

#sanders sides

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logically-asexual · 1 year

Text

the wedding was shown on SvS to be on Saturday April 13, 2019

putting others first was posted on may 2020

flirting with social anxiety was posted on october 2020

working through intrusive thoughts shows the date of Thomas’s first message to Nico on Thomas’s phone as Tuesday April 20, (bc of the day of the week, implies it’s 2021)

with this info my question is

#i hope i get some clarification of the timeline by the actual team because #this is very important to me #like. was thomas losing his mind about going single to a wedding and then met a new guy to date in like. a few days!?#or is the timeline now 4 years after the wedding and the consequences are just. probably not here anymore and #the new episodes will be about something else completely #i would like to KNOW #sanders sides #thomas sanders #nico flores #ts #polls

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intrulogical · 5 months

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I loved ur orange side theory post. However, My orange side trait theory is that he actually represents thomas' hatred 4 carrots. In WTIT we all think that thomas is upset nico 4 not responding but in actuality, he was just remembering those boiled carrots from FWSA & when he met nico the first time. He calmed down when nico called bcuz nico actually has this sort of nice, calm magic that he puts on thomas. (Nicos also a witch btw)

Also when Logan throws the paper ball at Roman in LNTAO and there's orange light coming downt hebstairs, that also has nothing to do with like how Logan's being treated. Its because, once again, thomas hates carrots. Now i know this one might sound a bit tricky but its very easy to see once i explain. You see, in LNTAO, something the viewers dont see is that earlier in the day he was forced to eat carrots and he didn't really like that. He talks about how being asked "but what do you really do" by a person after telling him he does youtube is what upset him, but REALLY its because they made Thomas eat a carrot & now he resents them. Same thing w/ the wedding, they had carrots there. He did NOT like them.

Its a really subtle thing in sanders sides & im not surprised no one catches it

(This entire post is a joke) - @transfemlogan

this theory actually explains why orange in particular seems to be able to overtake a side's eyesight, as we know carrots help improve vision. orange actually wants thomas to stop eating carrots because he himself can provide thomas the eyesight he needs without carrots

as we also know carrots are also green which coincides with my theory of remus and orange being opposites in a way which implies remus actually loves carrots and is trying to combat orange to get thomas to eat every carrot he needs

/j btw we r just being /silly

#thanks revy ur a demon!#asks

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a-small-batch-of-dragons · 1 year

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Picture Imperfect pt 2

Prompts: hey this is a stupid ask but could u maybe make a fic about roman and virgil bonding and growing closer post pof and fwsa and all? could be platonic, pining and then romantic, whatever ud like. ik its not the best prompt but ive got them on the brain, ive re-listened to the reputation album and ur writing is just so good and if not, take care of urself! - anon

I absolutely love your Sanders Sides stories, I can always 'hear' the character's voices - if you get what I mean. If you ever feel motivated or are looking for suggestions, I'd love to see something more from "Picture Imperfect" - I know Roman implies that Imagination versions of the other Sides have escaped before, and I'd really love to see him/the other Sides dealing with something like that! Either way, thank you for all your hard work! <3 - anon

hey could u write a fic about like, ro and vee out on an outing (maybe a first or second date if it’s romantic) and it starts raining so ro expects virgil to get scared and go back inside, but he just starts laughing and dancing and having fun or whatever? and then suddenly they’re both having a blast in the rain (bonus points for the cheesiest fucking rain kiss ever-). no pressure btw, and i love ur work <3 especially how u portray prinxiety! - anon

Uhhh-hi-there-i-am-nervous babe I don’t know how to put this req here but it’s here I promise

Read on Ao3 Part 1

Warnings: none

Pairings: prinxiety

Word Count: 3521

Virgil approaches him after everything is over and just pokes his arm.

“Uh, hey, Princey?”

“Yes?”

“Can you—can you tell me how many times you’ve done that?”

Roman frowns. “Done what?”

“Well, the whole…’other versions of us,’ thing.”

Shame curdles anew in his chest and he takes a deep breath, swallowing it as best he can. “W-well, I can’t specify exactly how many times I ran that specific scenario, but…er, it’s a tad more complicated than that, actually.”

“I got time.”

“U-um, can we—can we do this somewhere more private?”

“You wanna go to your room?”

“Yeah—yes, actually, that would be a good idea. There’s something in there that will help.”

Virgil frowns but doesn’t press until they’ve moved up and out of the living room. Roman glances at the door and lets out a sigh when he sees it’s closed. Good. Little chance of anyone interrupting them from either side now.

“Roman?”

He shakes himself. “Right. Sorry. So, um…can I ask why you’re asking, first of all? I-it’s not that I particularly mind answering, per se, it’s just that I…um…”

“You’ll be able to tailor your answer to my question if you understand the specifics of it?” He shrugs when Roman looks at him, surprised. “What? You and L really aren’t that different from each other, you know.”

“I know…”

Logan had said as much, taking him aside much like this and having the softest conversation about the importance of understanding why they’re each doing their own role when it comes to Roman’s ideas and the videos and everything, including saying something about how if he’s managed to stop Roman from wanting to create, he’s failed as a critiquer because he’s extinguished Roman’s creative drive.

Roman may or may not have cried into his shoulder after that.

“But really—running things over and over in your head just to show how much they could suck? Kinda my thing, Princey.”

“That’s what—oh, Virgil, I’m so sorry.”

“Eh.” He waves his hand. “Don’t worry about it. That’s my gig, I know how to do it in a way that’s healthy—okay maybe not entirely healthy,” he concedes when Roman gives him a look, “but it’s my thing. Maybe I’m wondering why you thought it had to be yours too.”

“I didn’t mean to steal your thunder, Virgil, I really didn’t—“

“Roman,” Virgil says, reaching out and taking his shoulders to make him look, “I’m not mad at you. I’m not gonna get mad at you. I’m worried, okay?”

Roman takes a deep breath. “Right. Sorry.”

“’S okay. Just take your time.”

In and out. We can do this.

“The Imagination is…temperamental,” he begins, “especially when it comes to all of us. Mostly because we’re a more…concrete part of Thomas’s Imagination seeing as we…sort of become real but not exactly?”

“Okay, I’m with you so far.”

“But because the Imagination likes to go in the direction of what could be, it…sometimes spits out other versions of us.”

Virgil blinks. “What, like clones?”

“Sort of? It’s more—it’s more like it makes alternate versions of us that lean slightly more into different—oh, goodness—character interpretations.”

Virgil narrows his eyes. “You’re gonna have to be more specific, there, Princey.”

Roman scrubs a hand over his face. “One time there was a Patton who got out of the Imagination that was obsessed with basking specifically chocolate chip cookies.”

“How is that different from our Patton?”

“This one managed to use literally all of the flour and sugar we had before I was able to stop him.”

“Okay, yeah, that’s—that’s different. So they’re all just, like, slightly off?”

“It’s more like if someone took the sliders for their personalities from their video game characters and messed around with them?” Roman pinches the bridge of his nose. “Sorry, I’m not doing a very good job of explaining this.”

“No, no, I got it. That’s a good analogy.” Virgil glances at the door to the Imagination. “So—wait, is that where they come from?”

“They can come from any of the doors, they just mostly come through this one since it’s my side and not Remus’s and…um…”

Virgil raises an eye when Roman’s cheeks start to flush.

“God, this is embarrassing.”

“I’m not here to make fun of you,” he reminds, “I’m just worried.”

“You have to promise you won’t tease me.”

“Okay, I promise.”

“Wait, really, just like that?”

“I’m only an asshole to you when it’s funny, Roman.”

“Your definition of ‘funny’ needs some work.”

“You need to stop dodging the question.”

“Fine, fine, okay, it’s just…” Roman takes a deep breath. This is mortifying. “…sometimes I would summon them, okay?”

“You’d summon other versions of us? What for?”

“To…to…” He twists his hands together. “To…comfort me.”

Silence. Yep, this was a mistake. This was the worst decision he could have made here and he wishes this were a not-real version of Virgil so he could just yell cut and have this experience not be actually happening.

“…brace yourself, Princey, you’re getting a hug.”

“Wha—ah!”

Roman barely has time to finish asking the question before Virgil’s arms are wound tightly around him, his face buried in the crook of his neck as he tries to shove Roman into his chest. Roman just wraps his arms around him too, carefully twisting his fingers into the fabric of Virgil’s hoodie.

“…um…”

“Nope.” Virgil tightens his grip as Roman makes to pull back. “You get hugs now. No buts about it.”

“Do I get to ask why?”

“Aside from the fact that you’ve just told me you didn’t feel like you could ask us for comfort so you had to summon other versions of us?”

Roman wisely keeps his mouth shut and just rests his chin on Virgil’s shoulder. Virgil makes a noise that sounds vaguely like that’s what I thought.

“…sorry?”

“Ah, shit, Princey, no,” Virgil mumbles, pulling back and looking Roman in the face, “I’m not—I’m not mad at you, okay? I’m—okay, I’m a little mad at myself and everyone else, but mostly I’m just sad, okay?”

“Since when have you been so transparent about what you’re feeling?”

As soon as he says it, he bites his lip so hard he almost draws blood.

“Shit, Roman, don’t do that.” Virgil taps his chin. “Leggo, come on. I’m just—you’re gonna make yourself bleed, let go—there, that’s better. I’m trying to be better about it, okay, that’s it.”

Roman just nods. Is…is he sure this isn’t some other version of Virgil? There’s the big door to the Imagination in the hallway, after all, maybe…

“It is really me, by the way, I can hear you thinking about it over there.”

“Wait, you can what?”

“Not literally, Princey,” Virgil says, a smile tugging at the corner of his mouth, “but thanks for telling me I’m right.”

Roman makes a face and goes to pull away when Virgil just chuckles and holds him tighter.

“Okay, that was mean.”

“Yes, yes, it was.”

“Look, just—you can come to us, okay? You don’t have to make versions of us that you think will comfort you ‘cause we won’t.”

“You—you mean that?”

“You see J around anywhere?”

Roman glances around. Sure enough, there’s no Janus. “Alright. I’ll—I’ll try.”

Virgil smiles at him—not a smirk, not that weird half-smile thing he does when he’s trying not to laugh, but a real smile—and claps him on the shoulder. “That’s all we can ask for, Princey. And uh, let me know if you need help catching any rogue versions of us, okay?”

Roman just nods dumbly as Virgil waves and walks out of his room.

He glances at the door to the Imagination, still firmly shut.

Huh.

———

“Hey, Virgil?”

Virgil takes out a headphone. “What’s up, Princey?”

“Have you seen Remus anywhere?”

“He said he was spending the day with the Kraken brood.” Virgil frowns. “Why, something wrong?”

“Well, he told me he was doing that too and there’s currently a Remus on top of the fridge doing his best to replace the water in the ice maker with slime.”

“What the—oh. Oh, is this one of the—okay. Yeah, what d’you need?”

“I think he’s only going to respond to your tempest tongue and I can’t do that.”

“Yeah, yeah, I got you.”

Virgil tucks his phone into his pocket and sets his headphones on the bed as he follows Roman down to the kitchen. Sure enough, there’s a Remus perched on top of the fridge, cackling wildly with his hands full of what looks like a blended version of Slimer from Ghostbusters.

“Remus,” Virgil calls, many-layered voice getting the little gremlin’s attention, “get down from there.”

Remus pouts somehow while still cackling and lobs a handful of goo at them. Roman quickly summons an umbrella and blocks it.

“Remus,” Virgil warns, “don’t make me come up there.”

Remus just cackles louder.

“Alright, you asked for it.”

He closes his eyes and concentrates for a few seconds, growing two feet taller and reaching up to scoop Remus up like a feral raccoon. He screeches, goo still saying everywhere, as Roman quickly grabs Virgil’s shoulder and sinks them out to his room. Virgil blinks, adjusting to the quick change, and Roman waves at him frantically by the open door.

“Chuck him in!”

“Don’t have to tell me twice!”

One gooey, cackling Remus later, Roman slams the door shut and lets out a sigh, reaching out to poof away the remaining slime.

“Oh, that’s sick. Can you clean everything like that?”

“No, just the Imagination messes. Thanks for your help.”

“Eh, no problem. Used to have to do that when we were younger anyway.”

“…ah. I see.”

Virgil looks at him oddly when Roman suddenly appears to deflate, only to realize that Roman didn’t get to grow up with Remus. “Oh, hey, I didn’t mean—“

“No, no, it’s quite alright. We’re…well, I suppose we’re making up for lost time now. I certainly wouldn’t’ve known to just…” He makes a picking-up gesture with his arms. “How long have you been able to grow like that?”

“I think it’s a fight-or-flight thing.”

“Got it.”

There are a few moments of awkward silence.

“Well, I should let you get back to…what were you doing?”

“Oh, I was watching this show on Netflix. It’s called My Name.”

“Wait, is that the one about the girl whose father gets killed in the first episode and then she goes on this whole journey to try and find who was responsible?”

“Yeah, ‘ve you heard of it?”

“I was going to try and watch it! What episode are you on?”

“Uh…episode two. I’m not that far into it yet. But there’s only, like, six episodes or something.”

“Would you—would you want to watch it with me? Not like together, together, but—like a book club sort of thing?”

Virgil is not going to helplessly smile at how cute Roman is when he’s all eager, he’s not. “Sure. That’d be fun.”

He is going to smile when Roman grins so wide it looks like his face must hurt.

———

“Therapy isn’t enough,” Virgil announces as he strides into Roman’s room, “I need to be weird about that old man.”

Roman chuckles and looks up from where he is at his desk, typing away at his computer. “So you watched the next episode, huh?”

“Look, I don’t know why he insists on making everything as dramatic as possible, but he does and it works for him.”

“So this is about that scene where he just rips his shirt halfway open for no reason, huh?”

“For no reason? Excuse me?” Virgil flops on Roman’s bed. “It is his gay-given right to be that dramatic and it’s working for him.”

“Seems like it’s working for you too.”

“Don’t act like you’re above it, you spent twenty minutes waxing poetic about how the framing around him sitting in his office chair was poetic cinema.”

“Yes, because I’m a storyteller and I can appreciate the use of framing in film and television to contribute to said story.”

“Uh-huh. How’s the writing going over there?”

“Don’t talk to me or my Untitled Document (1) ever again.”

Virgil laughs, head lolling back against the pillows as Roman shakes his head in mock sternness. “He’s so gone for him.”

“Who is? The assistant for him or him for the dead guy?”

“Yes.”

“You’re correct and you should say it.” He squints at the screen. “Wait, what’s a gender-neutral term for parent?”

A pause, then the rustle of fabric. “I want you to repeat what you just said to yourself.”

Roman does. “I might be stupid.”

“‘Might be,’ he says.”

“Shut up.”

“What’s the word I’m looking for that is like the exact word I’m looking for?”

“Leave me alone.”

Another laugh from behind him as he continues trying to type. But the thought of actually having Virgil here to talk about something they’re both watching is a lot more tempting than working on this idea that isn’t even due for a few more weeks anyway. He chews on his lip for a second before saving his work and closing it down. He did have more than half of it completed, thank you very much.

He turns around, seeing Virgil sprawled over his bed like it’s his own, scrolling on his phone, and just takes a moment to look.

Virgil looks…happy. It’s a good look on him.

“When you’re done staring at me, I got a post to show you.”

“What is it?”

“Slow-motion GIFs of that moment.”

“Move over, then.”

———

By this point, when Roman asks him for help with wrangling an escaped version of one of them, they can do it while having a conversation.

“I followed one of the main blogs in the fandom yesterday,” Virgil says as he grabs two of a Janus’s arms. “They followed me back.”

“Oh, really?” Roman grabs two more and starts hauling him toward the Imagination, deftly knocking aside a swinging cane. “You got to mutual status that quickly?”

“They said they liked my meta posts. Gave you credit, of course—“

“As you should.”

“—but yeah, they seem cool. It’s weird, I know it’s not like actually having a celebrity you can interact with, but it’s like—“

“It’s like being relatively famous just by having them know you. Do you think they’re laughing at your silly little jokes every morning,” Roman teases as they get the squirming noodle to the door, “while they’re having breakfast?”

“Thank goodness, maybe they’ll spare me when the cops come to kill all of us.”

“Or a rival gang.”

They shove the weird version of Janus back into the Imagination and shake themselves off. Roman picks up a piece of paper and jots it down.

“Is it just me,” Virgil mutters, “or are they getting…weirder?”

“This is the first real weird one you’ve seen.”

“That has some implications that I do not like.”

“Uh-huh.” Roman shudders. “Just you wait. They’ll get weirder.”

“Is it too late to back out of this?”

“No. I can stop asking you if you want.”

Virgil reaches out and knuckles Roman’s shoulder. “I’m kidding. I couldn’t leave you to deal with all of that on your own.”

Roman doesn’t look at him for a moment, fiddling with the fingers on one hand. “I dunno, it’s just…this is pretty much a direct result of me not being able to deal with my own problems by myself, so…I would understand if you wanted to stop having to deal with them.”

Virgil looks at him for a moment. Then, out of nowhere, he says: “you know, sometimes I struggle with feeling useful.”

Roman whips his head around. “What?”

“Well, you guys come up with ideas, I’m only here to…point out the problems. Not that I’m not saying that’s not useful, but like…I gotta wait until you do all your work before I can even think about doing mine, do you get what I mean?”

“I believe so…Virgil, you—“

“So when you ask me for help with this,” Virgil says, speaking smoothly over him, “it makes me feel useful. This…this helps me too.”

Roman stops, staring at him in something that’s almost wonder. “It does?”

“Yeah, Princey. We—we’re all damaged in some way. We just gotta find someone else whose damage is compatible with ours.”

Roman blinks a few times as a slow smile spreads across his face. “Why, Virgil. That was almost poetic.”

“Shut up.”

“No, really, I’d love to see what you could write—“

“Shut up!”

———

“Hey, Roman?”

Roman looks up from his desk. “What’s up?”

Virgil shifts his weight from side to side. “Can we—this is a stupid question.”

“I’ve adjusted my expectations accordingly.” He shuts his laptop and turns to face him. “What can I do for you?”

“Can…can we go into the Imagination?” When Roman pauses for a moment, he quickly keeps going. “It’s just—I know I see it a bit when we throw the others back in and there’s not really a big difference and it’s all what you make of it but I just—you know what? Never mind. This was stupid.”

“No, no—“ Roman quickly stands up to catch Virgil’s elbow as he turns to leave— “no, Virgil, it’s not stupid. I’d love to take you to the Imagination.”

“You…you would?”

“Yeah. Do you wanna go now?”

“Aren’t you busy?”

“Mindlessly scrolling, that’s it. Come on,” he coaxes, leading Virgil back toward the door, “it’ll be fun.”

Virgil keeps watching him warily until Roman manages to get them through the door. He closes it firmly behind them as Virgil stares around at the field they find themselves in, littered with wildflowers and grassy hills as it stretches out almost endlessly in front of them.

“…whoa.”

“Do you like it?”

“Princey, this is…this is fucking pretty.”

Unbelievably, Roman feels himself start to blush. “You like it?”

“Fuck—yeah, Roman. This is—how do you not spend all of your time here?”

“Well, it gets a little boring just staring at fields of flowers forever, and sometimes—“

As if on cue, a massive bank of thunderclouds rolls in overhead and it begins to rain.

“Sometimes it does that,” Roman sighs, already turning back to the Imagination door, “I’m sorry, I really can’t predict those, they just happen sometimes. Come on, you can borrow something dry, I don’t…”

He trails off when he notices Virgil’s not next to him. He looks back.

Virgil stands in the middle of the flowers, his head tilted back toward the sky. The purple-black of his hoodie almost perfectly matches the purple-black of the clouds. His eyes close, feeling the rain on his face, hands slightly outstretched as if to welcome it. He looks—he looks—he—

Oh.

“Virgil?”

“Yeah?”

“Can I—can I kiss you?”

Virgil looks at him and chuckles. “Getting real cliché, huh, Princey? Was this your plan?”

“N-no, not necessarily, I—wait, what? You’re not surprised?”

“I’m kinda surprised you asked first, but you are Romance.”

“You—you—“ Roman blinks. “Wait, you want to kiss me too?”

Virgil just grins and walks up to him.

“Hi,” he murmurs as he kisses Roman, both of their eyes fluttering shut as the rain pours over them.

Roman doesn’t need to worry about this not being the real Virgil. He’d never be capable of Imagining something as incredible as this.

General Taglist: @frxgprince@potereregina@gattonero17@iamhereforthegayshit@thefingergunsgirl@awkwardandanxiousfander@creative-lampd-liberties@djpurple3@winterswrandomness@sanders-sides-uncorrect-quotes@iminyourfandom@bullet-tothefeels@full-of-roman-angst-trash @ask-elsalvador @ramdomthingsfrommymind@demoniccheese83@pattonsandershugs @el-does-photography @princeanxious@firefinch-ember@fandomssaremysoul@im-an-anxious-wreck@crazy-multifandomfangirl @punk-academian-witch@enby-ralsei@unicornssunflowersandstuff@wildhorsewolf @thetruthaboutthesun @stubbornness-and-spite @princedarkandstormv @your-local-fookin-deadmeme @angels-and-dreams@averykedavra @a-ghostlight-for-roman @treasurechestininterweb @cricketanne @queerly-fluid-fan @compactdiscdraws@cecil-but-gayer@i-am-overly-complicated@annytheseal@alias290@tranquil-space-ninja @arxticandy @mychemically-imbalanced-romance @whyiask@crows-ace @emilythezeldafan@frida0043 @ieatspinalcords @snowyfires@cyanide-violence@oonagh2@xxpanic-at-the-everywherexx@rabbitsartcorner @percy-07734@triflingassailantofmyemotions @virgil-sanders-the-gay-emo@cerulean-watermelon@puffed-up-bees@meltheromanstan@joyrose-fandomer@insanitori@mavenmush@justablah65@10paradox10@uhhh-hi-there-i-am-nervous@cutebisexualmess@bella-bugatti-frogetti-baguetti

If you want to be added/taken off the taglist, let me know!

#dragonbabbles #fic #roman sanders #virgil sanders #prinxiety #sanders sides

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theepsizet · 2 years

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Sanders Sides Season 2 Finale Predictions

Or rather predictions for Pt 1/4 of the Season 2 finale, b/c I honestly have no idea what the plot is going to be AT ALL.

So, the Season 2 Finale is coming very soon, according to Thomas. Naturally, there’s still a lot of speculation into what will be shown. This entire post will be the obvious predictions (again for Pt 1/4), as well as a couple ideas that might seem far-fetched but can possibly make sense considering what the series.

And yes, this has been done before, but I might as well review the important points.

Prediction #1: Wrap Up Loose Ends

POF ended with a bittersweet end-card, but with tension still being in the air. Roman is pissed that Janus is accepted — his black-and-white mentality makes him believe/convinced that “Dark Sides” = evil, and it certainty didn’t help that both snapped at each other; aka that scene — and he’s even more upset that Patton is giving “the snake” a seat at the table.

Thomas said in one of his instagram Q&As that the Season 2 finale will have 4 parts, and with this in mind it wouldn’t be too far-fetched to believe that the Season 2 Finale will tie into POF and, subsequently the “Wedding vs Callback” trilogy — SvS, DWIT, and POF.

The trilogy was an emotional roller-coaster. It was a simple turned thought experiment where the final decision had dangerous consequences. This included Thomas worsening his relationship with intrusive thoughts — despite the beneficial outcome that Remus can now show up, he’s still not fully accepted by Thomas; his existence as “Dark Creativity” is just acknowledged — and revealing that Patton’s moral code was so extreme he believed/wanted Thomas to purse martyrdom and literally die for others for the cost of being a good person.

It’s wasn’t pleasant. And it certainly isn’t over.

Virgil and Janus have always had tension between each other every time the latter showed up. And since Virgil does know him personally, it makes the grudge much worse than Roman’s. It’s heavily implied — and even a common theory at this point — that the two had a fallout, of sorts, otherwise Virgil wouldn’t have any qualms for Janus being around.

And for a side who is 100% against anything that Janus brings to the discussion board, Virgil would naturally be absolutely pissed that Janus is accepted by Thomas.

There’s actually a very subtle hint in FWSA, where Virgil & Roman at the beginning of the episode both admonished Thomas for simply using “little white lies” that are otherwise harmful/not really impact compared to using deceit as a solution for trust issues.

(Side-note: Deep down, Virgil does understand Janus’ importance, but their past implied fallout would only diminish this idea. Virgil would only agree with Janus reluctantly, and even then he wouldn’t like to admit that the latter has some good points.

This could also tie into Virgil’s biggest of being seen as the “bad guy” again. He tried so hard to be accepted, and when he finally opened up about him being a Dark Side, Thomas was shocked... what would happen next? Will Thomas reject him once again? The answer is no, of course not. Thomas accepts him for who he is, but Virgil is still anxiety, and these questions can’t easily go away. Not only that, but no amount of deception/denial will help diminish this; hence why Virgil might even lash out if Janus even tries to remotely assure/comfort him.)

Speaking of Janus, Patton is also going to be someone that Virgil & Roman are both pissed at. For Roman, the reasons are explained above, but for Virgil... well...

It started after DWIT. Virgil was disappointed in himself that he couldn’t protect Thomas from, and since he is the embodiment of anxiety, he naturally thinks of the worst possibilities. And since Patton was pretty accepting of Remus existing — while he’s still uncomfortable, Patton understands that intrusive thoughts are natural and chastising Thomas certainly doesn’t help — Virgil is naturally going to think that if Patton accepts the others, then what bad thing could they do to Thomas?

In the Asides, Virgil made two sarcastic quips towards Patton that were pretty insensative on his part. It would make sense he would make this when Patton accepted that Remus and Janus should be allowed be more prominent:

When Patton suggested they should try to relax: “You [Patton] do realize who you’re talking too?” (ATHD?)

“Oh that’s great, you’re giving Thomas permission.” (WTIT)

Even the 5th anniversary made it clear that Virgil wasn’t too thrilled with Janus being included, and found the best way to actually make him into a flustered mess (“Ask Janus about our song ‘Lies’”).

So, with that out of the way, what does this mean for the Season 2 finale?

There is going to be tension between the 4 sides that will possibly result in a pissed-off argument: Janus & Patton — who simply want what’s best for Thomas — vs Roman & Virgil — who also want what’s best for Thomas, but are too arrogant to understand the problems of listening to only SPECIFIC sides, rather than all 7.

And that’s what Thomas CANNOT do.

If he listened to Virgil & Roman only, he would not only diminish the importance of the other sides, and a black-and-white mentality + his anxiety would only highlight this need to diminish the others to a concerning degree.

Except Virgil & Roman’s job has nothing to do with Thomas’ morality. Not really:

Janus is Thomas’ self-preservation. He’s there to stop Thomas from going over the edge by reminding him to take care of himself.

Patton is Thomas’ morality. He’s there to as Thomas’ personal guide to what’s right and wrong.

(Another side-note:

That isn’t to say that Roman and Virgil’s concerns aren’t valid. Both Janus and Patton need to stop the other for going too far, but POF expressed the idea that it can ONLY be Patton and Janus. Not any other side because it isn’t their job.

Keep in mind that Patton and Janus are not only mature sides with a grey mentality and understand/accept the mistakes they make, but both are assertive sides. Janus fights back to whoever harms him (as showcased when Roman), and Patton reminds the group if an idea is bad/reminds them not to be arrogant:

SVS: “What is this wacky talk? I- You don't mean any of this. I'm your morality, I wouldn't be here if you did!”

LNTAO:

Logan:

Patton:

Moving On, pt 1:

Thomas: I'm sorry I got excited. I know that Virgil's room is where I have to go in order to heighten my anxiety. I gotta think that your room is literally sunshine and rainbows.

Patton: Wha... -laughs nervously- I— -laughs- It's- It's not quite like that, uh...

Thomas: Still, you're at the core of a lot of my happy feelings.

Patton: I'm at the core of a lot of your feelings.

In-conclusion: It’s going to be a mess. A fight where the 4 sides are so pissed off at each other that nothing will be accomplished.

Prediction #2: Patton will snap

So just before Halloween last year, Thomas posted this picture on his twitter:

This tweet was theorized to be a reference to 2 things:

Logan’s Line in AA pt 1 “Flames. On the side of my face. See-Seething... Seething fire”)

Or what occured in WTIT; specifically that infamous scene with the orange eyes:

Interestingly enough, the Spyro Youtooz was later put on Patton’s box. And this can be seen in the background of 2 videos that occured after this tweet. These videos are the 5th anniversary, and, more recently, the video where Thomas plays FNAF for the first time:

Sanders Sides is a series where the devil is in the details, and the fact that Patton’s box has the Spyro Youtbooz led to many theories regarding one specific side.

Yes, I’m talking about Orange.

If the Orange Side embodies rage/wrath, it would make sense that he would have an effect on the other sides. And if the Season 2 finale has 4 of Thomas’ sides pissed at each other, it wouldn’t be to far-fetched to say that Patton will probably snap out of rage at the other sides — again, probably Roman and/or Virgil, for reasons explained above (aka he’s Thomas’ morality, it’s HIS job to know what is right/wrong for Thomas, not theirs).

(Side-note: This isn’t my theory, btw. Many people have already pointed this out; I just thought to bring this point up again to table.)

There’s actually another point to keep in mind, but if the discussion does turn into an argument where the 4 sides are at each other’s throats, then it makes sense that Orange will have subtle influence. He will definitely play a very important part, just like how Virgil & Remus played a subtle yet important part in POF (<cough, cough> the Trolley Problem).

Another thing to keep in mind: In an anger-driven argument, its easier to tune the other person out that actually listen to them. This is just how all arguments become fights. Because of course you’re right. What do they know? The other person is wrong... right?

Tuning the other person out and attacking them out of anger is what naturally occurs in most fights. And these fights tend to be pointless. Nothing gets accomplished, and in the end, both parties simply feel like it was a waste of time.

Prediction #3: Speaking of Orange’s influence

It’s possible he might make a debut. Not a full debut, but possibly a cameo. Maybe. This is going quite beyond simplicity, but it makes sense considering one simple fact.

Season 2 focuses on Thomas realizing he’s not perfect, and that there is no such thing as labeling “good” or “bad” to individual aspects of his personality. Especially to sides he was completely unaware of.

Still, it will only be a cameo. Not a full debut. I still affirm my point that the Season 2 finale will focus on Janus, Patton, Virgil, & Roman, and not have anything to do with Orange. If he does show up, it will be in a penultimate scene or endcard of Pt 3 or 4, showcasing that he does have influence on the other sides.

And his influence could actually prove that Orange possess a hidden role that Thomas should have and needs: catharsis.

Anger isn’t an emotion you can simply repress; it's practically designed to be let out. Holding it in actually makes the anger a lot more volatile, and just like Remus will actually have consequences the more it isn’t released. If Orange is catharsis, the 4 sides fighting each other will help prevent further fights from occurring in the future. It would further prove the duality of a Side: Orange can be harmful, even violent but be needed to blow off some steam before it gets worse.

Final words:

Ooh boy, this post was a lot. I apologize if it’s a mess, but there is just a lot to talk about. I kind of needed to get it out of my system. Feel free to ask me for clarification if you need any.

(Also, more of a personal note, @beauty-and-passion thoughts?)

#sanders sides #sanders sides season finale #janus sanders #patton sanders #virgil sanders #roman sanders #remus sanders #orange side

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emphasis-on-the-oopsie · 1 year

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What’s your most and least favorite sander sides episode? And why? Can you name something bad about your most favorite and something good about your least favorite?

(I saw your post asking for asks I hope this is fine)

I cannot choose my fave ep 😭 but maybe a tie between Embarrassing Phases and Dealing With Intrusive thoughts. My least fave is definitely I'm in a cartoon though

Embarrassing Phases tackles something I've been anxious for a while, and it does have one of my favorite lines in the series. Though i get why people dislike it cause of the second-hand embarrassment (i think. it's been a while since i rewatched it i should rewatch it)

Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts just introduces remus' character so well and his impact in the mindscape, and how to deal with said thoughts. I can't say anything bad about it honestly?

I'm In A Cartoon is.....eh. The only fun thing about the episode is to see the sides in a cartoonish style, and that was done so much better in fwsa

#took me a while to answer but here you go!#and yes as long as you're polite and don't vent/self dep in my inbox everyone is free to send me asks #sanders sides #this is my opinion! if you disagree with me just look away #ask logan

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muppetable · 1 year

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Would you be willing to talk about your journey in the tss fandom? (How you found out about it, first got into the series, how your views on characters and the show has evolved, if you plan on staying after the season finale, ect.)

of course!

so when it first started, i didn’t have much of an interest in it, i’d only ever seen a couple of thomas’s vines. but around like 2019-2020 with covid i needed something to watch, and i stumbled upon ts sides. oh my GOSH i fell in love, it didn’t take long. since it was a youtube series, i didn’t talk about it too much to other people because i doubted they would even know it existed.

then one day at jazz band in like 2021, we were waiting for the band director to get there. (all masked don’t worry lmao) it was one of my first days in animation so i brought my ipad to try to improve, so i was doing that and kinda tuning out the world. but then one of my friends leaned over to another, and showed him a picture and said “look! spidey-virgil!”

and i panicked and i said “wait, virgil from sanders sides?” so that day i found out two of my best friends were fanders! we would talk a lot about it together, discussing theories and ships.

but that time was when episodes were taking longer to get done, other than ads for crofters and youtooz. it was sometime between fwsa and wtit where i kinda dropped out of the fandom. once wtit came out, though, i was immediately hurtled back in. and oh my GOSH! i was completely blown away! the cinematography, the effects, the orange hinting, i was so excited!

not long after the plushies ad, i joined tumblr because i decided i could use more fan content. fandoms are slow to die on tumblr after all! i didn’t even know thomas was on tumblr so that was a fun surprise lmao. i made so many friends and came up with so many ideas, and thanks to drawing sanders sides so often, my human anatomy has improved a lot!!

now i’m taking art requests, posting incorrect quotes on tuesdays and thursdays, writing aus and fanfics, and getting to discuss theories with my friends. it’s an absolute blast. i’m so excited for the finale, i’ll be here for a long time after it!!

#sanders sides #thomas sanders

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areslikestodraw · 7 months

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hello it’s the sasi lore dump you asked for!

tl;dr: everyone is angsty and we’re gearing up for an orange side reveal sometime soon (end of this year? early next year? unclear.)

basically, there’s a bit of drama going on because of the season 2 (? i think) finale, which is a four-parter and about which there has been very little information. it’s been ~3 years in the works and thomas very recently said that he finished 3/4 of the script. there are folks that are upset about the lack of info.

there have also been a number of (A)sides videos posted - flirting with social anxiety (fwsa), working through intrusive thoughts (wtit), and i believe are there healthy distractions (athd). they used to be asides, but underwent a name change and became official sanders sides episodes sometime this year.

there’s been LOTS of orange side teasing, a big one in wtit, and in other things that thomas has been doing (such as roleslaying with roman and merch). for sure amping up to a reveal.

EVERYONE is very angsty, here’s the rundown as of 10/23:

patton is being overbearing and feels conflicted. he’s not expressing his thoughts clearly and confusing thomas more in the process.

virgil is virgil. janus (deceit) is being accepted. while we haven’t seen virgil’s reaction in the big group, we can assume it will be Not Good.

logan is being ignored CONSTANTLY. no one listens to him, and he’s becoming more volatile and angry because of it (see the end of wtit)

roman has been getting in trouble for everything he does. he goes against deceit, he gets in trouble. he sides with deceit, he gets in trouble.

that’s everything i can think of as of rn. sorry this is super long! lmk if you have any questions!

alright let's fucking go thanks for that

and also I've watched all the episodes (I think (?)) but I was so gd confused coz when I started looking into the fandom again all I was seeing was orange side stuff

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beauty-and-passion · 8 months

Text

Selfishness v. Selflessness: Deceit’s reasons

And then, we finally reached the last episode of Sanders Sides.

Or what was the last official episode, until recently Mr. Sanders finally realized that hey, the Asides are following the main plot, maybe it’s time to consider them official episodes and not Asides.

And so, he changed the titles. If you check FWSA and DWIT now, you will find that their names are not followed by the title “Sanders Asides” anymore, but “Sanders Sides”.

While the infamous plushie episode which angered everyone because it was nothing more than an ad, magically became and Aside episode:

What can I say? Better late than ever, Mr. Sanders. This wouldn’t have happened at all if you planned everything from the start, you know that, right?

Oh, and in case you haven’t noticed: maybe you should also take FWSA and DWIT away from the Sanders Asides playlist. You know, just to keep it organized.

But let’s come back to Selfishness v. Selflessness: this was the first episode I ever wrote about - even if at the time it wasn’t a full analysis, but rather just some random, scattered thoughts. And they weren’t enough, because there is still a lot of stuff to talk about! Hence why, this post was needed.

This post will clarify a couple things I previously talked about, starting from the whole Wroammin thing which (sadly) turned out to be wrong. It can even be considered part of a triptych: THIS is the first part, THIS is the second one and the post you’re reading is the third and final part. Hope you will enjoy it and, as always, if you have anything else to add feel free to do it.

_______________________________

Why did Deceit appear?

[Logan]: -pops up- Eh... Speaking for someone is a disagreeable practice, Patton. If Thomas would rather go to the wedding, then I, the brilliant Logan, think we should hear it straight from the horse's mouth. Thomas, the floor is yours. Wedding or callback?

My gosh, this man isn’t even trying. First, he drops a character lie (“I, the brilliant Logan”) which is the exact same kind of lie he used the first time. Then he uses two idioms in a row. And scolds Patton in the meantime (“Speaking for someone is a disagreeable practice, Patton”).

I suppose he just wanted to appear, but he couldn’t do it without being ✨ dramatique ✨

But now your question could be: why did he appear? Well, as I anticipated in the analysis of CLBG, Mr. Sanders explained in a tweet that Character!Thomas’ relationship with Lee and Mary Lee is as strong as the one with Joan. Once again, a very strong relationship is at risk. And, this time, there’s also an event that might bring a major change in Thomas’ life. Everything basically requested Deceit’s presence.

_______________________________

The dark sides are all anime tsundere girls

[Deceit]: Virgil's very right. You can't trust me! It's not like I'm trying to look out for you or anything.

[Anxiety]: He thinks he’s so great. Well, he is not! Look, I’m just trying to look out for him. (Taking on ANXIETY)

Okay, jeez, fine, you definitely don’t know each other and you’re definitely not father and son. That’s all a huge coincidence, I surely believe that.

Now I can’t wait to see Orange saying: “it’s not like I’m looking out for you, baka!” to Thomas, then I can close everything and disappear forever 😂

_______________________________

“He's against Nazis”

[Thomas]: ... Alright, he can stay. [Patton]: Hm? [Roman]: -incredulous laughter- Ah, wait, seriously? [Thomas]: Sounds like he's against Nazis, so... Why not hear him out? You know? [Virgil]: That... cannot be where the bar is!

I just love this part too much and it cracks me up everything. Remember, kids: you can be a snek, but if you’re against nazis, then everything is okay. I can’t wait for the moment Thomas will try to send Remus and Orange away, only for them to reply that, hey, they’re against Nazis too, so they deserve to stay! And Thomas will let them stay.

And then we will reach the lowest bar in the world and everything will be perfect.

_______________________________

“Social engagement”

[Deceit]: Well, the bar for skipping an important opportunity should be higher than a... social engagement. [Patton]: Come on, a wedding is more than just a social engagement! [Virgil]: He knows that.

Of course he knows that, he bears the name of a god who presides over weddings. Which yes, it’s hilarious and I love it.

_______________________________

Same area of expertise

[Patton]: What is this wacky talk? I- You don't mean any of this. I'm your morality, I wouldn't be here if you did! [Thomas]: Right, right. Yeah, you're right. I- I don't mean that. [Patton]: And Roman, I thought you fought for honor! Why are you pushing Thomas to be dishonest?

Deceit knows what Thomas truly wants and it’s to go to the wedding. However, two sentences from Patton were enough to make him understand that:

Patton is the one who is truly in charge

Patton’s ideas are strong enough to influence Thomas

Thomas could change his mind because of them

Roman desperately wants to go to the wedding

Roman could change his mind because of Patton

And so, Deceit intervenes and makes Patton aware of something: sure his presence means Thomas still thinks about his morals… but he’s not the only one here:

[Deceit]: Do you know who else is here? Me! So perhaps, Thomas... isn't so innocent. [Patton]: Well... Nobody's perfect... Except for Thomas! He loves his friends! [Deceit]: You can defend him all you like... But you can't change the facts. Is Thomas an innocent little lamb? Let's let them be the judge of that.

And with this, Deceit:

proved he’s Thomas’ Side and not a random guy. He is a Side, just like all of them and he won’t go anywhere.

brought up the problem that will be solved in POF - i.e. Patton’s view of Thomas as a perfect, innocent boy.

moved the entire problem to a higher, moral level. This isn’t just a “choosing wedding or callback” problem anymore: this is Deceit’s way to prove Thomas’ fallibility and humanity.

And he wants to prove it to Patton. And if Thomas is confused about all of this, Patton is not:

[Thomas]: Um, I'm a little confused as to what this is all about. [Patton]: Basically, Deceit is trying to prove that you care more about yourself than your friends, but don't worry, kiddo, we'll show him.

Again: the supposedly stupid guy immediately understood what Deceit was trying to prove and followed him in his reasoning. Because, in case it wasn’t clear enough, these two work in the same area of expertise.

And if you need another confirmation that these two are a lot more similar than it seems:

[Deceit]: He's clearly manipulating the witness into doing what he thinks is best. Wait a minute. Who was it that was called a Scooby-Doo villain for doing the exact same thing? Oh, yeah! It was me... disguised as Patton.

So not only Deceit confirmed Patton isn’t perfect, but they are similar enough, he can do what Patton does and there would be no difference.

These two work in the same field and they’ve been hinting it here all the time, before clearly stating it in POF.

_______________________________

Multiple arms

I forgot about this detail and thought that the multiple arms thing Remus brought up was a metaphor. Well… maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the noodle snek really has six arms.

This goddamn man, he really has one arm for each Side. And he probably uses them to smack the Sides in the head/stop them from doing something stupid. I love him.

_______________________________

An attempt at maturity

[Thomas]: And that's what you stand for. Truth. [Patton]: But I don't know what's true at this point. I just know what I want to be true. I want to believe you're an honest person... but... Deceit's right! He's here... and that means something. [Thomas]: Are you serious? I- I've been following your lead this whole time. I'm in the dark here, Patton, and I need something to light my way! [Patton]: I'm sorry... b-but... I don't know the way. [Thomas]: I don't want to be a bad person. [Patton]: Okay, then I'll do whatever I can to make sure you're not.

Do you know what is this? This is the moment that led to POF.

Patton was getting Deceit’s message. He was starting to understand Thomas isn’t perfect. He even admitted he didn’t know the answer.

But Thomas was too scared, too afraid of being seen as a bad person. And so, Patton had a choice: to side with Deceit, accept that his morals have been too extreme and guide Thomas by giving him a more mature, multifaceted understanding… or doing POF:

[Patton]: Like I told you before, sometimes... I don't know the way. But... When I told you that, you were so scared. I couldn't bear it. So I said to myself... "Alright, Patton. Thomas needs you. You're responsible for his morality. You can never not have an answer for him." And then I promised you I'd keep fighting. Unfortunately... I learned the hard way that... giving too simple of answers to complicated questions... can do more harm than good.

_______________________________

Virgil’s interrogation

[Deceit]: -chuckles- Very well. As Thomas' anxiety, do you have any relevant information about his norepinephrine levels in regards to these two conflicting commitments?

I’m pretty sure someone already said something about this hormone back when the episode came out, but I don’t remember - also, I found this very interesting paragraph from Wikipedia I would like to share:

“The general function of norepinephrine is to mobilize the brain and body for action. Norepinephrine release is lowest during sleep, rises during wakefulness, and reaches much higher levels during situations of stress or danger, in the so-called fight-or-flight response. In the brain, norepinephrine increases arousal and alertness, promotes vigilance, enhances formation and retrieval of memory, and focuses attention; it also increases restlessness and anxiety.”

As you can see, Virgil’s two main functions are both involved in this hormone. And norepinephrine has a spike during stressful situations - like, you know, choosing between a callback or a wedding.

But the mention of this particular hormone implies something else. Something very important, that will connect with the second part of this conversation.

Deceit mentioned an incredibly specific hormone and, by doing that, he proved how well he knows Virgil. He doesn’t know just his roles, but even the effects he has on a chemical level. It’s a bit like the difference between knowing your colleague from their job and knowing how many miles they can run on the weekends. It implies a much closer relationship.

Also, since he asked how high the levels of norepinephrine are, that means he knows Virgil is stressed. He knows this situation makes him more anxious and, with his questions, he wants to prove to Virgil (and to everyone else) that he is anxious because he knows what Thomas wants: to skip the wedding and go to the callback.

[Virgil]: I think it's ridiculous that anyone is entertaining any of this. Guys, he's a liar. You literally know him as Deceit. [Deceit]: Glass houses, Virgil. You yourself said that you are not a beacon of truth.

The famous “You literally know him as Deceit” line is a clear reply to Deceit’s question about norepinephrine. It’s Virgil’s way to say that yes, he knows him extremely well too. The others “know him as Deceit”, but he knows Deceit for who he is.

And, okay, now that’s probably me looking too much into things again, but the way Deceit replied by saying that he’s not always right and shaking his finger… it’s almost like a warning. A (maybe unconscious) way to say to Virgil to not reveal more, because he’s not always right.

And to further prove his point, he proceeds with a subtle threat:

[Deceit]: Oh, so you've never been reluctant to share anything with the group, then? [Virgil]: Don't. [Deceit]: What? I just meant your name. [Virgil]: Don't! [Deceit]: Maybe that's why it's so easy for you to recognize me for what I am. Like I said before... it takes a liar to know a liar.

And with that, Deceit proved to Virgil that:

He knows what he’s hiding from the group (i.e. that he was one of the Others)

He knows him extremely well, because he knows Virgil doesn’t want to talk about it yet

He has the upper hand, because if Virgil says something, he can immediately drop his secret and screw Virgil’s position in Thomas’ eyes.

_______________________________

An unexpected help

So, after threatening his son and showing how much of a villain Deceit can be, what does Patton do?

He pushes him to show his soft side, by forcing him to reveal his agenda.

[Patton]: You... always seem to have some... bigger plan. Some... agenda. [Deceit]: Doesn't everyone? [Patton]: Well, not everyone is so secretive... about theirs. [Deceit]: Everything has a purpose, and sometimes fulfilling your purpose requires keeping things close to the chest. [Patton]: Well, you're under oath, which I think means you gotta tell us. Why the courtroom scenario? Why pick a setting where... uh, the truth comes to hang out?

As soon as Patton had the chance to ask him a question, he immediately ignored the wedding/callback thing and went straight to the point. And it makes sense, because the point of their conversation is a bit more important than a single choice.

Patton wants to know what this Side is trying to do. And when Deceit brought the conversation to a higher level by talking about society, Patton brought him back to the main topic: Thomas. What does Deceit want to do with Thomas?

And by forcing him to be a little more honest, Patton helped him. He helped Deceit to drop some of his convoluted plans, to clearly say he cares about Thomas.

[Patton]: Okay... What does any of this have to do with Thomas? [Deceit]: I don't want Thomas to be disadvantaged in a world where you can die for not following the laws made in the name of a lie.

That’s why I always say Patton is incredibly mature. He’s working against Deceit, they are literally against each other in this courtroom scenario… and yet, he helped him. He gave him a chance to show his soft side, to prove he’s not a bad guy. And to tell how useful he can be! A bit like “an inner coach that acts with the intention of self-preservation”, as Patton said in CLBG.

_______________________________

Always and forever on Thomas' side

[Deceit]: Look, the point is, Thomas is an unconscious egoist and this dilemma is actually between something that serves him versus something else that serves him. Between looking and feeling like a good friend and a dream come true. If Thomas wanted to be seen as a good friend more than he wanted the role of a lifetime, well then I'm all for that. But I just don't buy it.

This part is extremely interesting, because Deceit said both choices are something Thomas wants. From one side, there’s personal gratification (Thomas wanting to be a good friend), from the other there’s personal fulfillment (Thomas doing something he loves). They are both selfish wants, in a way. So, if all Deceit cared about were selfish wants, he would have no problem with them. This whole courtroom scenario wouldn’t take place at all.

Be he has a problem because he wants what Thomas wants. And since Thomas is denying his want to do a different thing… well, that required Deceit’s intervention. As he said: if Thomas wanted to go to the wedding, he would’ve accepted that choice. He doesn’t care about Lee’s feelings, just like he didn’t care about Joan’s feelings in CLBG. The only feelings that matter for Deceit are Thomas’.

And only when Thomas finally admits his want, Deceit is satisfied.

[Thomas]: Fine! I want to go to the callback! I was planning on playing Word Crush on my phone during the wedding ceremony to keep my mind off the fact that I'm single. I don't want to go! I'm afraid to go. And on top of that, a dream come true fell into my lap scheduled on the same day. Anyone would want to go to the callback! So, yeah. I tried to force myself to forget about the wedding, and now I want to lie to my friends, so they don't hate me for not supporting them. I'm a liar. I'm a liar.

Deceit put on a whole courtroom, just to force Thomas to be more honest. This alone would be enough to prove he’s not just the embodiment of lies, but I suppose the correlation “snek = liar” was stronger than 200 proofs, so Roman did the wrong thing and made a choice no one wanted.

_______________________________

A mature Side

[Roman]: It's my sworn duty to help Thomas achieve his hopes and dreams. But Thomas wouldn't dream of attaining his hopes through deceitful means. [Deceit]: But that's not true! [Virgil]: And you're a beacon of truth? [Deceit]: Oh, did I say that? I missed the part where I said that.

Please let’s focus on Deceit’s words because they are very, very interesting.

1) Deceit openly admitted his means weren’t deceitful. Just like when he asked Thomas, during the courtroom if he was “the snake come to trick you into sinning, or have you had your mind made up since the moment you received the news about the callback?”. Deceit had no intention of deceiving Thomas, from the first moment he appeared.

2) Deceit is a very mature Side. I talked about it during my POF analysis part 3, when he openly recognized his own mistakes. Here he openly admits what Thomas is having trouble admitting: that he’s not perfect. He never said he was. He never pretended to carry the truth. Even if he’s 100% right here, he still admits he’s flawed. He and Patton are truly the most mature Sides here.

_______________________________

Caring and criminal

During the episode, he said that “fulfilling your purpose requires keeping things close to the chest”. And where did he keep his logo? On his chest. Even better, on his heart. What else does he have to do, to prove how deeply he loves and cares about Thomas? This man is the most caring Side.

[Deceit]: I'm not going anywhere. And there are smarter ways to get people to do what you want, anyway.

Uh, so “smarter ways to get people to do what you want” means “let’s release Remus”?

You know what? That really was a smarter way. With one decision, he introduced Remus, proved he’s harmless and even useful, showed Thomas that ignoring his needs leads to an increment of his intrusive thoughts and confirmed that he was right and Thomas should’ve listened to him.

This man is a criminal and I love him.

_______________________________

Why Logan can’t work in the moral area

[Logan]: It's still difficult to believe that my participation was as restricted as it was. It was Deceit's doing, I'm sure. I would have been a more than worthy foil. Unlike him, I'm skeptical about whether a society could function without some sort of system of laws by which all of its citizens abide.

Oh Logan, you huge nerd. I love you, but this is why you don’t work in Deceit’s and Patton’s same area of expertise.

Deceit’s whole monologue about society wasn’t practical, but moral. He didn’t say “we should surrender to anarchy”, nor presented a point about why rules are bad: he said society is a concept and we all collectively choose to believe this concept was true. He talked about how scary the concept of society is. And he clearly saw it on a moral level, not a practical one.

And yes, we can add this to the list of reasons why Logan was pushed in the back: just imagine if, instead of talking with Patton, the other moral side, who was incredibly quick to get his points and ask him about his agenda, we got Logan: a neutral Side, more interested to practical things than metaphorical/moral ones. Deceit would’ve spent most of the time rephrasing everything and the conversation would’ve been just about this choice, rather than a multilayered conversation about selfishness, selflessness, Thomas’ fallibility, and choices in general.

Deceit needed Patton as interlocutor and he needed to remove the cold, straight logic from a conversation that was mostly about morals and emotions: two areas Logan is not an expert about - as he will admit in POF.

[Logan]: Well, determining what feels right or wrong for you isn't really my area of expertise.

_______________________________

Truly taking care aka the wedding from Lee and Mary Lee’s perspective

[Patton]: Well, here's the thing, kiddo. People hurt all the time. By going to the wedding, you're making sure that two of your friends aren't hurt by the absence of someone they really care about.

Okay, time to put the most cynical part of me here.

Patton’s words are cute and nice and everything… but seriously. Come on.

Just imagine being the bride or the groom: you spent the previous days, weeks and months organizing for this event. Locations, entertainment, ceremony and everything. Then the day comes and you want to be 200% sure everything goes as smoothly as planned. You have people coming to ask you about this or that detail. You have to be sure your dress/make-up is okay, your best men/bridesmaids are okay, the photograph is here, the meal is good, the place is ready, the staff is preparared.

And, when it’s time, you have the ceremony, the people to greet, photos to take, meals, events, dances and so on.

Do you really, REALLY think that Lee and Mary Lee would be so devastated by Thomas’ absence? I’ve never been married, but I really doubt that one missing guest (and not a best man or a bridesmaid or another important guest: just a guest) would have made them feel so devastated. Weddings are huge, stressful events, a ton of things happen and the newlyweds barely have time to eat, let alone feel devastated by a missing guest.

And I would like to repeat that: a guest. Thomas didn’t play any important role. He wasn’t supposed to be Lee’s best man or anything else. He was just a guest.

Do you know what it would’ve happened, if Thomas skipped the wedding? That Lee and Mary Lee would’ve thought “Oh, Thomas didn’t come”, to completely forget about it two seconds later, because someone else would’ve called them to do something else.

And no, going anyway isn’t a question of empathy, but of naiveness - and egoism too. Thomas himself proved it in POF, when he showed his frustration, because he wanted a little more than a “hello”. He literally wanted them to throw him a party, just for coming! Who would ever think the newlyweds would give a damn about them, on such a huge day? No one, except for a very egoistical, naive person: egoistical enough to think they are the only one who matters, naive enough to think the bride and the groom have time to do a party for them. That’s childish, immature and very selfish, not empathetic.

Do you want to know what Character!Thomas could’ve done, if he wanted to show some empathy? Skip the wedding.

Think about it. What would’ve been better? Thomas moping around and not enjoying himself, thus ruining the party for everyone else… or Thomas not appearing at all and letting everyone enjoy the party? Which choice is the most empathetic? Call me a bad person, but I think the second one would’ve been a better way to care about other people’s feelings.

Also because Lee and Mary Lee noticed it:

[Lee]: Really? 'Cause you're sitting alone at the reception.

And, at least to me, that’s way worse than not attending it at all. Thomas was such a buzz kill, he ruined the party for the bridal couple too. That’s literally the most selfish, bad thing he could’ve done. And only because he didn’t want to listen to the snake boy.

This event deserved to leave strong consequences. And POF is proof of how huge the impact was on Thomas’ life and how deeply things will change from now on.

( Support me on Ko-fi )

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taxicabinmemphis · 4 years

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I don't care what ship but give me a fic where two characters are interacting and one notice that oh my goodness their eyes are so pretty oh no they're so pretty oh no

tw swearing, making out (if it’s not making out and just kissing I’m sorry I have no idea how kissing works all I know is they’re in love mmkay)

post fwsa

The excitement of the day's events had yet to wear off. While Roman was much calmer than before, he was still giddy and happy. He had sunk out with Virgil to give Thomas time to fill in the other sides without Roman and Virgil interfering with their then-uncontrollable excitement. Now, they were in the mindscape commons.

Virgil fell on the couch. He maneuvered himself into a sitting position, immediately putting his head in his hands.

Roman laughed, sitting beside him. "You alright, Virge?"

"Alright?" Virgil asked incredulously, lifting his head from his hands a fraction of an inch. He made a noise too positive to be a scoff and let his elated open-mouthed smile show clearly on his face. "I'm fucking fantastic!"

Roman's heart stopped. He finally noticed Virgil's eyeshadow. It was purple, not black. A brilliant, glittering purple. And oh, stars above, was Roman gay.

He could only manage a short laugh in response, eyes still trained on Virgil.

The eyeshadow didn't just make Roman gayer, it brought out Virgil's eyes. Roman decided then and there that he could drown in those eyes for all eternity and call it an honorable death. Virgil's chocolate brown eyes, previously shadowed by the pitch-black eyeshadow, were now showing their unfathomable beauty to Roman in a way he was unsure if he could handle. He was torn between wanting to stare at them for the rest of his life and wanting to never have to look at and be caught off-guard by those eyes again. He was leaning towards the former because he knew it would be impossible to avoid seeing Virgil's eyes again, and now that he knew of all the heavenly wonders they held, he wouldn't be able to ignore their beauty, even if Virgil went back to black eyeshadow.

Despite being a prince and a warrior, Roman couldn't find the strength to look away. Any worries of Virgil taking notice of his staring either weren't there or were too far at the back of his mind for him to register their existence.

Virgil's laughing started to awkwardly cease. "What is it, Roman?"

Roman's trance was interrupted, the confused look on Virgil's face finally registering in his brain. He lifted his head a bit and blinked animatedly three times in succession, running over Virgil's question in his mind multiple times to make sense of it.

"Is something wrong?"

Roman finally realized that this was a result of Virgil noticing his staring. Wherever those anxieties were when he was entranced, whether it be in the back of his mind or nonexistent, were now loud and clear at the front of his brain.

"Oh! Uh...no. No. Nothing is wrong," Roman said, words speeding up as he spoke. "Everything is fine and nothing bad or out of the ordinary is going on."

Virgil looked unimpressed. "Seriously. Is there, like, something on my face?"

Roman opened his mouth to mention the eyeshadow but realized the eyeshadow was black again. Roman frowned.

"No..." he said pensively. "No, there isn't."

Virgil gave him an unreadable look for a moment, as if waiting for him to continue.

"Alright, what's up?"

Roman blushed at his forward tone, scratching the back of his neck. "Nothing, you just...your eyeshadow was...um...purple."

Virgil's eyebrows raised in mild surprise. "Was it? Huh."

"Yeah...."

Virgil suddenly looked worried. "Is there something wrong about that? I'm so-"

"No!" Roman exclaimed quickly, covering his mouth the second the word had escaped it. He had been a bit too loud. "Um...no. No, it was fine. Quite nice, actually."

Virgil blushed at that. "Oh, well...thanks. I think."

Roman almost swooned—Virgil looked so cute with a blush adorning his features and a cautious smile on his face. His eyeshadow may have been back to black but now that Roman had seen the figurative light, he was noticing just how stunning Virgil was. Of course, he'd vaguely acknowledged Virgil's attractiveness before, but this, especially with the pure ecstasy he was radiating, this was a whole new level. This realization was different.

Roman didn't know much about what he was feeling at that moment, and the only thing that seemed to be clear was his incredible desire to sweep Virgil into a passionate kiss.

"Roman...you're still staring," Virgil observed nervously. "Are you sure it's just that? Have...have I done something?"

Roman's face immediately fell into sympathy. "Oh, my darling, no. You have done nothing wrong, nothing near it."

Virgil blushed, likely at the pet name. "Then why are you staring?"

"Sometimes I can't help but appreciate beauty," Roman said thoughtlessly, "and your eyes, mi corazón, outshine all the jewels on Earth."

Roman wasn't exactly known for thinking before he spoke. This was a prime example of this, and of the immediate regret that typically followed. Roman hadn't meant to be that forward. He'd likely ruined everything he had with Virgil for forever.

Virgil's face was aflame. He put his head in his hands. He flipped his hood up and Roman could hear a muffled scream from within the fabric.

Well, there was no going back now. If he backtracked, he'd only make things worse. So, he rolled with it.

"What are you doing? While I know they are your eyes and you can do with them what you wish, I'm really hating being deprived of my view."

Virgil screamed again, higher.

"Are you alright, my dear? Is there anything I can kill for you to relieve you of your anguish?" Roman asked in concern.

A minute of silence passed, and Virgil slowly removed himself from his hoodie. His cheeks were still redder than Roman's sash, but he seemed to be in a place where he wasn't going to scream anytime soon.

“I’m okay,” Virgil said slowly, the words leaving his mouth over enunciated and like he didn’t believe what he was saying.

“That’s wonderful, Stormy Knight! However, it would be an honor to kill something in your na-”

Virgil grabbed Roman’s collar and pulled him closer, before putting another hand on his chest and leaning him backwards slowly. Roman was now blushing up a storm, looking up at Virgil weakly as he was taken off-guard and no longer had anything to say.

So, he started rambling. “I-Virg- um...I’m sorry, I don’t know what came over me. I’m sorry if I’ve ruined things. I just said something without thought, you know how I am, and I went with it ‘cause I didn’t wanna worsen th-”

“Are you gonna kiss me or not?” Virgil growled harshly.

Roman’s words cut off and he looked into Virgil’s eyes, shocked and alarmed. He noticed that his anxious side had his hypnotizing eyes set on Roman’s lips. Roman gulped in worry and in discomfort at being looked at in such a way, but managed to stumble out a response.

“I...I mean... if, um, if you’re offering...”

Virgil crashed his lips against Roman, sending his back to the couch cushions and Virgil properly on him.

The kiss was passionate, searing, and had a fire so hot that no star could compare. While Roman might’ve been oblivious of his feelings for Virgil until a short while ago, this had clearly been building up for a long time.

When they separated, they were both panting and were staring at each other like there was nothing else in the world.

Roman smiled slightly.

“What?”

“Your eyeshadow...it’s purple again.”

Virgil smiled in return, before returning his lips to Roman’s.

That was so weird I’m sorry I have no idea how kissing works. They’re just in love, okay? I’m sleep deprived and have to go to math tutoring in ten minutes so please bear with me. I hope you liked it! Sorry these prompts are taking so long, I just have school as well as limited motivation and three ongoing wips.

#prinxiety #ts fanfic #roman sanders #virgil sanders #romantic prinxiety #fic #prinxiety fic #roman #virgil #prompt #somehow-i-got-an-account #i'm sorry for the intensity at the end i just...i have no excuse #ts roman #ts virgil #i'm finally publishing something yay #post fwsa #kill writes

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