the idea that there can only be one queer person (+ an outside love interest) in tv shows/movies is so stupid and unrealistic

like besties,,,, we flock like ducks

if there’s one, there’s another ten

in the last seven years of my life (age 12-19) my best friend (at the time) came out and there was like a ripple effect, now i’m a lesbian and friends w more queer people than cishet people

i was gonna say i need a show with a Token Straight Friend™️ but that’s literally tao in heartstopper

Honestly, it is very annoying and disappointing. Like, Talder is our latest loss (and win simulteneously it's weird), but with every non canon w/w ship and add the queerbait above that has got really annoying. Personally, every ship listed above ive loved wholeheartedly, but Hosie especially enraged and hurt me on another level. Like, god. Anyway, i dont wanna get all ranty on you. But it's annoying. That said, i love PG and A Leage of their own so much.

Hosie managed to be the most infuriating queerbait of all time and it had very steep competition, and somehow it won by a landslide.

What made Hosie so infuriating is that they, more than any other queerbaiting ship, threaded the line with actual canon the most. Say what you want about Swan Queen, Supercorp and co., but with those ships there was always a very distinct line of denial about the ships existence and the possibility of it occurring in the future. If not on camera, at the very least off camera.

I never, in a million years, thought my non canon ships would actually be canon because I just know how this shit works and we never win. But with Hosie? I had actual legit hope we would have canon hosie. Everything was working towards it. Not just the chemistry with the actresses, but the writing was not only subtext but actual freaking text, and with also talks with the actresses and show runners. Everything indicated that Hosie being canon was an actual possibility.

Until the last season happened.

My thoughts on the William/Kara development and Supercorp

There’s a lot of upset people in the SG fandom right now, so I wanted to post my opinion on the recent romantic developments. To summarise: I think William is a bad love interest (at least at this point in time), but I do not harbor anger toward the writers concerning Supercorp. I realize I am in the minority for that second point, and if you disagree with my opinion, you are always welcome to discuss it with me.  So. Thoughts.

William x Kara: Let’s start with what makes a good couple, or at the very least, what makes the most popular couples: Slow Burn, the progression from friendship to love that is witnessed on screen. It’s never as interesting to watch two people get together who already have a romantic history, or who are love at first sight. The audience wants to go on a journey with the characters, to see how they’ve grown closer together over time, and finally how they realize they can’t be without each other. They’ve barely established why Kara should be interested in William (a problem they had with Monel as well) and they are already throwing them together for a date. One of my personal favorite couples of all time, Lois and Clark from Smallville, spent four seasons bantering before ever admitting an attraction. Even Barry and Iris spent a couple of seasons playing the will they/won’t they game. This is a misstep that Supergirl has now made on almost every occasion. Kara crushed on James from the first meeting, started dating Monel within half a season, and even Alex and Kelly are acting like a couple who have been together for years rather than months. It seems like the writers have no interest in showing the little romantic moments and how two people fall in love.

William has barely shared scenes with Kara, nor established himself as a strong individual character. I did not write him off, nor did I have a problem with him as an eventual love interest, but I had hoped they would flesh him out before ever reaching this stage. I’m not surprised they jumped the gun. To be honest, there’s not much to even criticize about William. There’s barely anything to know about him, and yet I’m supposed to become invested in this romance. 

The only positive aspect of this storyline so far is that William is not a Superhero. Whoever Kara’s inevitable LI is, I hope they are a civilian. That dynamic is just so much more interesting.

Thoughts on Supercorp and Accusations of Queerbaiting My absence of anger stems from a very simple fact - I never believed Supercorp would ever become canon.  Although I have shipped these two since the relationship's inception, it has been clear to me they were only written as a beautiful friendship throughout their storyline (season 5 has a few hiccups in this regard, but I’ll get there). In my view, the romantic interpretations of supercorp were the sole ownership of fans like me and not in the text of the show, thus I was able to enjoy the ship stress-free. In many ways, I never want it to be canon. Writing (especially on CW shows) tends to screw with relationships I love, so staying in the friend-zone greatly reduces the chances of that happening, and I can stay in my little non-canon bubble with art, fanfiction, and headcanons, and never be upset.  Other than good chemistry, there are 4 main reasons that a ship like Supercorp has so many fans. It’s these 4 factors that are shared by all most popular f/f ships, and it’s what all us lesbians are really waiting for: 1. The involvement of the show's protagonist. Not only does this give the ship superior importance, but due to the status of the protagonist, it makes it invincible.  2. A slow burn (See above for reasons). 3. An enemies to lovers OR forbidden romance trope. This gives the ship an ‘epic’ feeling and usually has the most potential for interesting storytelling (Kara and Lena should be enemies so I consider them an example of this trope).  4. Genre fiction (superheroes, fantasy, adventure). The constant life and death stakes of these shows also increase the epic quality of the ship.  Swan Queen, Clexa, and Supercorp all have this in common (Clexa had all the marks of a slow burn if it wasn’t for ADC’s availability). Now, why do I mention this? Because personally, I love Kara and Lena for what they potentially could be as a romance, not the close friendship they are actually written as. When the day comes when my dreams come true and I am given the ship that actually ticks all these boxes, AND is written with this intention from the beginning, no one will ever be able to argue the validity of this pairing or say that they were thrown together because of fan pressure.  For these reasons, I never considered Supercorp queerbaiting in any regard...until season 5. Again, I didn’t feel particularly baited by it (in fact I’ve been quite grateful for it), but I can understand how others did. Many scenes, mostly in 5x03 and 5x08, had me scratching my head wondering why they’d make such romantic choices. But after my experience with Clexa, I have learned it’s much better not to have expectations (In my view, Clexa will always be the ultimate example of queerbaiting, which is its own essay) and just enjoy the ride. That’s a hard lesson to learn though.  All of this debate about queerbaiting would be solved if the writers were willing to just come out and say that they won’t put two characters together. “No, we don’t ever plan to make Kara and Lena romantic, but we do plan to always deeply explore that relationship and the complexities of female friendship”. This is what I believe the creators need to say. If they did so, they could layer any scene with the most romantic music they liked, and I wouldn’t consider it queerbaiting. However, they aren’t willing to do this because they think they will lose some of their audience, which is not a good enough reason. I will, however, say that  writers are put in an impossible position for these types of couples. If they don’t give these two characters scenes, fans will complain that the show is boring and demand content. If they do, they will be accused of queerbaiting. Though I will criticize any writer for bad storytelling (like William and Kara), they shouldn’t be attacked for not giving fans what they want. Everyone has their own vision and should have the freedom to write it. 

Even though I understand the disappointment of Supercorp never being canon, complex female friendships on television are fantastic to watch, and I will not begrudge the writers if they handle Kara x Lena well. The story of Kara and Lena has huge potential for deep and important storytelling. Regardless of their relationship status, they are two characters whose story will resonate in this show. In the end, they may even be considered the most important relationship, barring, of course, Alex and Kara. That’s all I ever wanted from them.

Friendship vs queerbaiting

"Can we stop shipping all (m/m) friendships as romance?"

First of all, no. Why should we? Shipping is supposed to be fun, and we can ship whatever we want as long as the characters are fictional. With real people it's a little trickier but this is not about real people shipping so I'll leave it at that. People don't usually choose a ship, shipping happens a little like falling in love: we find ourselves attracted to the dynamic of certain characters and the ship just kind of happens.

Shipping is not activism, like people often remind here. We fans don't need to ship the ship with the most under represented dynamic, we should ship the ship that makes us happy. It's not homophobic if you don't ship the popular gay ship. Its not racist if you ship the main character with the white person instead of poc bc you feel like these two have a better dynamic. And so on. But I need to add here that if a queer/interracial couple is canon but you ship them in a straight/white relationship with someone else it's a little... questionable at least. It depends the dynamic and the history of these characters and so on, but I'm just saying that there are exceptions to the rule I just presented.

So, if you feel like friendships between two men are under represented you have no right to tell people they shouldn't ship it because you prefer their dynamic as something else than romantic. And also: where did the idea come that they are under represented? The sole reason why so many non canon ships are m/m friendships is because THEY ARE EVERYWHERE. Plus, all kinds of friendships are shipped, f/f and f/m too but they're much rarer in mainstream fiction which is why they are also less popular in fandom. If you think "Fandom only ships canonically straight white men", look at Clexa for example. They only had one season together, and it got to the top of tumblr's most shipped list immediately. Stormpilot is very popular and it's interracial while neither is white. Don't blame the fandom for something the creators are responsible for.

The idea that we shouldn't ship friendships tells something about how our society portrays romance - an instant connection, physical attraction, something that consumes your soul after the first glance and makes you leave everything, even your friends and family behind. As if you were ready to die for them after one conversation, one night together, sometimes even just one look. This doesn't sound healthy or even normal to me.

Romance and friendship are not mutually exclusive. Healthy romances are often build on friendship, and even if infatuation comes first and dating second, any couple who has been married for years will tell you that the secret to a happy marriage is being good friends too. Best friends, actually, since they have to spend most time together. Of course I'm not saying we shouldn't ship different kinds of dynamics, I enjoy love/hate relationships as much as the next person, but popular ships that are accused of queerbaiting are usually canonically close friendships.

Drawing a line between close friendship and queerbaiting can be tricky, I admit. Sometimes even if I do think something is queerbaiting I understand the opposite opinion, sometimes not. Often, the opposite argument is something like this: "Yes, they clearly do love each other very deeply, deeper than most friends, but that's because they're like brothers/siblings." And I'm like... no. I know brotherly love is a saying but it isn't really... a thing. For people who aren't actually brothers. Because there are two things that make people siblings: 1) Biology, as in they are genetically siblings. 2) They have been brought up as siblings, they have the same parents and have known each other since birth.

Often siblings are both, but there are adopted siblings, and biological siblings who haven't met each other before adulthood. So if you can't check either of these for your ship, it's not incestuous. No matter how brotherly you think their love is. Because yes, people can form strong bonds to people outside family, but even childhood friends don't have the experience that siblings have. They don't have the same parents and the same happy family memories or shared trauma. They've never had the kind of authority that a parent is, who is close for both and able to decide who's right about the fight and who gets a punishment, who gets the bigger cake slide etc. And when you're biologically related the biology actually affects your relationship: it's just part of surviving the natural selection that we protect those who are genetically like us. Also there's a natural repulsiveness towards our relatives which prevents us from getting mutant babies. These things obviously apply to adoptive siblings too, but not to "bros".

So if someone says that these two characters have a deep connection but it's brotherly, sure, they can think that, but they have no way of getting actual evidence for their claim. Whereas if I think some characters are in love I can present evidence. I obviously can't prove it unless it becomes canon, but I can make it pretty clear why I think so.

Now, I'm all for having male characters be close friends without it making them gay. We need to show that men should be able to talk about their emotions with each other, just like female friends do. It's proven by many studies that straigh men are likely to have their girlfriend/wife as their only emotional support, and that needs to change. Male friend supporting the other when he talks about his crush on a girl: hell yeah. Male friend supporting the other when their parent dies: hell yeah. Male friends talking about games and selfcare and literature and their interests just like female friends do: HELL YEAH! I would like to see male friendships where they need each other because they have shared interests and memories and because they can be open with each other. Being physically comfortable with each other. All that.

But, you see, most so called friendships that are popular as ships and accused of queerbaiting, are not what I just described. These friendships are codependent. If the other died or was taken away from the other the other wouldn't just be sad for a year or so, but they would lose their grip of life and themselves. They are contradictory, and the characters are bad at describing their feelings for each other, unaware whether the "friendship" is mutual, surprised when the other shows that they care. They are full of misunderstandings, and the narrative seems that there's something that they're going towards. Normal friendships are solid and stationary, and while they do change with time and circumstance, they're not constantly evolving as if what the people involved have right now is not what both want.

Friends have fights over petty things, and sometimes just can't be around each other. These characters usually fight - if they fight - because they leave things unsaid and the viewer is forced to think: what did they mean to say? There's tension, neither of them knows how to quite be around the other but they need them like they need air. It is sometimes even shown that even if the other is in a relationship with another person, they can't share the most important parts of their life with that person - they need their "friend" for that. As if love was just physical, no common interests or chemistry needed.

Obviously there will always be some things that can only be shared with a certain person and that person may not be your lover, but at least in my opinion it makes sense if your romantic partner is the one who gets you the most. Especially if the love is supposed to be ideal or even supported by the audience which mostly is the case in fictional romance. And if the "friends" have most in common with each other, have shared their most vulvenerable moments with each other and seem to have romantic chemistry to many of the viewers, why not make them a couple? Because they are both straight men? (Or women, but most often men since most main characters are men.)

The argument against queer ships is usually just "not everyone is gay". Yes, well, obviously not. Some people are straight, that's true. They don't feel attraction to the same sex even if their life depends of it (So I've heard. As a bisexual myself this sounds like a weird concept. Whatever.)

And the conversation continues: "I think these two men you ship together are both straight, so they can't feel attraction towards each other."

"Fine, that's your opinion. But how do you prove that?"

"He slept with a woman/flirted with a woman/ loved a woman etc."

"Bisexuality. Exists. Also, some gay people try to date the opposite sex before they admit they are gay, because society teaches that's the normal thing to do. They could be in denial, or pretend to be straight so they don't get beat up or something like that, it's often hard to be queer. But once again: BISEXUALITY EXISTS."

So, the person saying they're straight is usually just basing their thoughts on heteronormativity, thinking that they're straight until proven otherwise. Fandom, on the other hand, looks at how the character acts around different genders and bases their opinion of their sexuality on that.

Back to "Not everyone is gay". What do people even mean when they use that phase? I look at the fictional universe that I love and see zero canon queer people, or maybe two minor characters that were in one episode. The world is filled with characters, and I'm only pointing at a few of them and saying that they seem to have potential for a romance, why not? Straight people already have almost every popular character, is it really too much to ask if we could get one or two too? That's not everyone.

The fans don't want the show/book/movie to become a romance suddenly, we're in this fandom because we like the thing that makes it what it is. We're just asking to acknowledge the romance that literally is already there. WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR A SEX SCENE. We're asking for something that could make the people who watch/read the thing from their heteronormative viewpoint see that it was actually queer all along. So that they would stop ridiculing us queer people for "seeing things that aren't there." Something very small will do: Hannigram didn't even have to kiss because everything needed to make a romance were already there, they just needed one conversations to make it clear that yes, Hannibal was in love with Will and yes, Will did ache for him too. Simple. Korrasami just walked off together in the end. With both cases the fans were happy, and it proves that the idea that "fangirls just want to see two men fuck" is wrong. We just crave to be represented.

The final argument against the queer interpretation is: "Relationships are complex, and sometimes you don't fall for the person who seems to be the perfect match for you." Yes. Real life is complex. Sometimes love is just physical, often you don't fall for your friend. BUT. As a writer, you're not trying to recreate real life. You're showing things and emotions that are important to the story, so why make a multi season/movie/book arch for a relationship between two men if you're just going to pair them off for someone else?

As a person who's into writing I get really confused by these things. One of the first lessons I learned that I still hear daily is: "show, don't tell". If you've shown us the two men falling for each other, telling that one or both of them suddenly love someone else won't fix it. And if every other character in the universe seems to think these two are a couple then it's not very hard for the viewer to see that too.

I am tired of hearing about "platonic love stories". The creators have called so many popular ships that, as if it somehow excused their queerbaiting. Platonic and love story are each other's opposites, and platonic love stories don't exist - unless they're talking about the platonic concept of love: that humans had four legs, four arms and two heads but they were too powerful so the gods divided them in two, and that's why people need a soulmate. But usually they don't mean that - however, sometimes they do. Thank gods for Hugh Dancy. But when creators literally call the ship a love story between two men yet insist it's not romantic, it probably aren't the fans who are reaching. If it's a love story, let it be a love story.

I'm so confused about who will be Anissa girlfriend. It's seems like it might not be Grace I'm trying to be okay with it

biiiiitch GOODNIGHT! SAME! 

But it’s okay. Dig this, there are good and bad aspects of both outcomes. So, to prepare for whichever: Grace or Chenoa.

Chenoa:

The Good: This would mean a slow burn for Granissa. A “friends first”/friends to lovers dynamic. Which, in fiction, as in real life, leads to a more stable, healthier romantic relationship. ESPECIALLY in their case if Anissa confides in Grace about her powers, which I believe is how their bond forms in the comics. And you know it’s so rare for us to ship a non-canon pairing with 100% absolute certainty that they’ll be canon at some point. Imagine: enjoying the chemistry, subtext, tension and everything KNOWING for sure it will lead somewhere. Knowing there’s a purpose and something is building AND YOU’RE NOT BEING QUEERBAITED!

The Bad: Patience! Who has time for patience? We gotta WAIT for granissa to-WE GOTTA WAIT?! Waiting. Also also, and most importantly, Anissa being in a relationship with someone else while pining for Grace leaves potential for a cheating storyline. This does cheapen the experience for me every time. I don’t want to them together in that way at any point.

note: but for what it’s worth, my guess is even if she’s with this Chenoa girl, they’re breaking up in 1x02 or 1x03.

Grace:

The Good: No waiting. Getting to see a committed and healthy relationship between two qwoc sooner rather than later would be great. Especially since this is a new show. It had a strong opening but who knows. It’d be a shame if we had a slow burn granissa only for the show to be cancelled just when it started to pick up speed. 

The Bad: I just really love that friends to lovers shit. I feel like I have more faith in the pairing if I WATCHED it happen than when it’s already established. I want to see the bond formed. I want to see the trust built. I want to see the early obstacles that were overcome. I want to see what made this couple what they are, you know?

All things “queerbait”, “so gay”, cranky shippers, etc ad infinitum.  Here’s my long-ass essay on why I think it’s destructive to this show and fandom mentality in general.  Part 1 :D

This is going to be sooo long.  Because I am sooo fed up with the bullshit I keep seeing on here.  So, I am going to break this into 2 parts.  Part 1 deals with the show and its FICTIONAL characters.  Part 2 will deal with the actual actors involved in making this show.  I'm pissed because what could have just been supposition and discussion among fans took a wrong turn somewhere, and turned into a forum for bullying and scandalizing the actors/show.  And seeing that even when they try to have a sense of humor about it, or be ingratiating to the fans about it, it always backfires on them....and ultimately, something that should be harmless (a ship) has become a toxic force of nature.

I'm going to give my 2 cents on the most annoyingly common misconceptions that I've seen being used as more can(n)on fodder because if I post and get this reblogged enough, maybe, just maybe... more people can be exposed to a more balanced interpretation.  

My problem is not with the possibility of Dean being gay/bi. My problem is not with Dean and Cas possibly exploring a romantic relationship.  Not at all.   My problem is with the dedicated and rabid group of people that have gone over the top with their harassment on public forums regarding these characters sexuality, and linking it to the real, live human beings that portray them.  Both crossing and blurring lines in a very destructive way, on Tumblr, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, you name it... This show has so many incredible themes and messages regarding friendship, love, loyalty, trust, perseverance and family and THAT'S your takeaway?   An unhealthy obsession with Dean's sexual preference??

Dean, by virtue of his looks, charisma and personality, has chemistry with almost EVERYONE.  Have you noticed??  The character of Dean is written and portrayed as a naturally charismatic, flirtatious and sensual person.  He wholeheartedly dives into anything that he enjoys.  Eating, hunting, fucking, drinking.  He doesn't seem to really appreciate boundaries or restrictions.  So, what's stopping him from exploring his sexuality with men?  

As far as I can see, the character of Dean as originally conceptualized and executed brilliantly by his frigging creator, Eric Kripke, was then, as you see him now, many things.  But also hetero. He's also accepting, scarred, goofy, resilient, co-dependent, loving, protective, the list goes on and on.  

But what he is NOT and has NEVER been written as, is gay or bi.  And if you have a problem with that, that’s not a flaw in the program you’re watching.  That’s your problem.  If he undergoes character development that radically redefines not only how he sees himself, but how the viewer sees him, after 12 years?  That's a delicate task that I don't envy the writers having to undertake, considering, the only reason they would do that so late in the game, is because they caved to pressure from the "fandom".  And I use quotation marks there because, if you want an iconic character to represent your views?  Write them yourself.  Create them.  But don't try to bully your way into another persons creation.   Here's the kicker.  Out of 264 episodes that have aired so far, and countless canon instances of Dean being hetero.... here are the handful of examples that certain people have latched onto as gospel:

1. Dean and the Siren, season 4, episode 14, Sex and Violence:  I can't tell you how many times I've seen some Jr. detective go "A-HA!  Deans siren was a MAN!  Therefore, he is GAY!"  If you use just a smidge of deductive reasoning and pay attention to the season leading up to this episode, and the description of a siren that was helpfully included in the episode, you could easily and reasonably deduce that because a siren's powers of seduction come from the ability to be ANYTHING to ANYONE and be that persons greatest desire.... that it makes sense for the siren to take the form of a cool, non-judgemental, trustworthy younger brother-type who has the same taste in and love for music that Dean has.  Someone he can relate to.  A peer.

What do you get the man who can have almost any woman that he wants?  

Not a stripper, folks.  

And what does Dean really want?  At this point, he wants a brother who trusts his experience and instincts.  A  brother that he can trust.  A brother who doesn't feel like a complete stranger.  A friend, for fucks sake.  It's not implied.  It's not a theory.  It's literally written and discussed IN THE EPISODE, people.  Move on.

2.  Dean and Gunnar Lawless, season 11, episode 15, Beyond the Mat: If you know any guys who are into sports or bands, and have never seen them go batshit fanboy over one of their sports or music heroes...then you just haven't spent enough time with them on their turf.  

3.  Deans "gay thing", season 8, episode 13, Everybody Hates Hitler: If you've never been hit on when you weren't expecting it, especially by someone you weren't expecting it from, I could see why you couldn't comprehend his behavior.  If you HAVE, you were probably flustered by it. Probably didn't react as smoothly as you thought you would, amiright?  I know I haven’t.

It seemed he was flattered, but didn't know what to do with himself.  If he were bi/gay, and attracted to the possibility of a no-strings hookup with a willing and  anonymous stranger... a blow-and-go in the mens room, for example... I think Dean could/would have easily pursued it, based on his hit rate thus far.  The one area in which he has 100% confidence and zero shame, is sexual conquests. Sam wasn't around.  There was nothing holding him back.  So, aside from being uncertain of how to extricate himself from an awkward situation, and being flustered, I got nothin’.

4.  Dean and Dr.  Sexy, season 5, episode 8, Changing Channels:  Not much to say here.  Dean clearly had a man crush on Dr. Sexy.  Would he have boned him if given the chance?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Ask a guy friend who idolizes Aaron Rogers or Eddie Vedder (for example) if he'd let them stick it in his pooper based on principle alone.  Chances are, that guy friend would probably say "Hall pass!"  If the situation actually presented itself though?  He might just gush over the guy and call it a day.  Who knows?  WE don't.

5.  Dean and Crowley: Again, ask a guy friend if he would share a room and triplets with a buddy if there were no consequences (girlfriend, things getting "weird, etc), and see what he says.  The answer may surprise you.  Maybe I just know a lot of uninhibited, sexy bastards!

6.  Dean and Benny:  Brothers in arms who go through intense combat together can and more often than not, DO form close bonds.  There was nothing in this friendship that even intimated at these two having any sexual or romantic designs on each other, yet.... people still try to make it work.  Bless their hearts.

7.  The Big One:  Dean and Cas:  Dean has had countless opportunities over the years to make a move.  And I DO believe he loves Cas, very much.  Cas clearly loves and admires Dean.  They have been through some serious shit together since day one, that neither Sam nor anyone else can compete with. But some very good advice I heard once, applies here (and this is why the 10-year crush turning into romance in rom-coms is such bullshit):  If someone likes you - you WILL know.  They will make a move.  Or you will.  And neither of you will take 10 + years to do it if there are no barriers (significant other).  And if a move is made and not reciprocated?  It's not because they or you is holding something back.  That's just a lie we tell ourselves.  SOMEONE is just not interested.  

Though I love their dynamic, I'm not a Destiel shipper, but I'm willing to go either way with this one.  I will say, I don't by any stretch of the imagination think the writers, actors or directors are 'queerbaiting", though.  That's like accusing a crush of leading you on when it was really in your head the whole time. Their chemistry is incredible.  But from what I've seen with my eyes, in the actual episodes, his relationship with Cas does not say unrequited love, sexual attraction or romance.  However, if I went by the slowed-down, out-of-context gifs that are prevalent on Tumblr, I could see where people get the idea.  And because these are two men who love, admire and respect each other and sometimes bicker like an old married couple, I suppose that makes them different than us and our best friends, somehow?  This makes me sad, because this is a unique show, in that it deeply explores mens relationships with one another (because they're human beings too), and they just can't do that without a group of immature people giggling behind their backs in the hallways because intimacy is so intimidating that it must be mitigated by making fun of it or spreading nonsensical theories about it.  Right?

Small wonder that heteronormative men, as a general rule, have so much social conditioning and shame to wade through when it comes to expressing love and care for their same-sex friends and family.  (Yes, men have problems too.  Not as many as us, by a long shot.  But this is one of them) 

You see, menfolk are expected to behave in a manfolk way, and if their behavior isn’t within the traditional and narrowly defined parameters as “hetero male”, they face the perceived stigma that accompanies “coming out”, which involves the very real fears of supposition, persecution, politicizing, backlash, gossip, undermining. etc.

This show has taken many chances.  And they’re not afraid to write for and represent LGBTQ characters.  But Chuck forbid that emotionally resonant, well-written, vulnerable and emotional male characters exist AND allow them to be straight.  Unthinkable!  And that snarky, gossipy, “tee-hee” mentality is just what enforces rigid gender roles on men and women in the 1st place.  Every post I see that giggles about Cas and Dean being gay for each other because....gifs...just throws us back 50 years.  Your words do have meaning, people.

If you want to know what you can do to pave the way for LGBTQ representation in entertainment and the world at large?  Take the small step of acknowledging that same sex characters can feel the same range of emotions that you do for your same sex friends.  Can have sustained eye contact.  Can love one another, and can tenderly care for one another without you sexualizing it, fantasizing about it and policing it.  I’m asking you to think about this, because this way of thinking affects everyone.  Gay, straight, etc. 

Season 1 Sam and Dean:  Hetero.  Sam in an LTR at beginning, Dean with potential to re-enter his relationship with Cassie.  

This show was marketed towards males in the 18-24 demographic, but curiously, more women are interested in these boys and their story.  Because they’re allowed to care without judgement.  Ahem.

 *As seasons go by...*  Clearly, judging by the polls and hate mail...neither brother can ever have or sustain a romantic relationship with a woman.  EVER again!*  And it as been widely acknowledged by the cast and producers that the fans don’t want to see the Winchesters spend too much time with what they deem as a threatening female.

Why do you think Castiel was even allowed to make it this far?  Sure, he’s an amazing character.  But if it were Anna who dragged Dean from Hell and ultimately stuck around?  Yeah, no.  That was never gonna happen.  

Basically, these fuckers can’t win.  If they’re hetero and stay hetero, that’s a bad thing.  If their characters do a 180 to please the most vocal (unfortunately) fans - then they’re caving in to pressure.

Either way, I think it's safe to say, us fans are ultimately invested (I hope) in these characters achieving happiness, wherever they find it.  And personally, I'll be happy either way.  But seeing this hyperbolic, over the top bullshit online that this crew are queerbaiting, etc...and that "If Destiel isn't made canon, I'm gonna do X,Y,Z..." is disgusting to me.  

The musings, wishful thinking and conspiracy theories are one thing.  And that's perfectly fine.  I’ve got nothin but love for fanficiton writers!  But drawing parallels and conclusions from some of the flimsiest crumbs available, and using that limited intel to cajole, threaten, bash and attempt to shame the actors, the crew, and the producers who work their asses off to bring us this amazing show, is pretty fucking shitty in my opinion.

These aren't public servants, guys.  We're not paying them to make this show.  If you want to know how a show on the CW gets funded and made - google it.  If you want to know how much of a time crunch/pressure cooker situation the writers are working in, not to mention the entire team in order to produce 23 episodes per season....again, google it.   And then tell me how they're able to not only craft compelling episodes and cram so much storyline, exposition, dialogue, character development, arc support, scheduling, casting, art direction, stunt coordination, set design, etc ad infinitum into each and every week, and STILL have time to drop easter eggs, and "queerbait"....

Just.  To.  Fuck.  With.  You.  And undermine LGBTQ efforts at representation? They are very kind and loyal to their fans.  And we DON'T OWN THEM.  If you don't like what you're seeing, don't watch.  But for fucks sake - do the fandom and yourselves a favor and direct your crusade towards ACTUAL threats to LBGTQ freedoms and rights.

Here's a list of places to lend support (to name a few): Family Equality Council Human Rights Campaign GLAD PFLAG Transgender Law Center Your local congressman, FFS

Rant over.  If you made it this far, thank you.  I owe you a fruit basket!  And feel free to engage, put me on blast if you want.  Let's have a discussion.  But if you agree with me at all, please reblog this.... just to give some folks another point of view.  

Blanket statement for those who are offended and have already called me an “asshole”, etc on their own tags:

1.  This is NOT by any stretch of the imagination an anti-shipper or anti-Destiel post.  I clearly stated that I don't have a problem with either.  And if it happened organically in the show, as opposed to under pressure?  More power to them.  And I do adore Castiel.

2.  This is NOT an anti-LGBTQ post.  Again, clearly stated throughout the post.

3.  This is NOT and never was anti-headcanon post.  We all have headcanons to some degree.   And If anyone wants to step up and tell me not to support an organization that's doing good work, just because I sunk their battleship... they can suck it.  I also belong to some of these organizations, and I'm pretty sure they're not as invested in your headcanon as you are.  And thejabberwock, I still admire your insights and posts, but am bummed that you missed the damn point of mine entirely.  Per your request, I have removed your association from the original post.

4.  This IS an anti-harassment post, directed at individuals who have taken this ship so far, that they've tainted the word and the concept for almost everyone else with their shitty, pushy behavior.  If this describes you?   I'm happy to have offended you.

5.  This IS an anti-ignorance post, directed at individuals who are presented with facts and reliable data from the writers, the actors and the episodes themselves, yet refuse to acknowledge anything out of their own headcanon.  Who insist on "knowing the truth" and using that arrogance to try to *Out* the characters, *Out* the actors and use threats and insults towards anyone who disagrees.  If you thought I was talking to you directly, after reading that?  I probably was.

6.  This IS an anti-misinformation campaign post aimed at clearing up some common misconceptions.

Lastly, reading comprehension is really crucial here.  I know it was a lot to read, I apologize for that. But if you're skimming through and picking and choosing something to be offended over, and continuing to feel personally persecuted regardless of whether or not that's the reality... rather than reading and understanding the entire message?  Well, there's nothing more I can say or do.  

The Demons Strike Back

Objectively, the professional reviews give this film 2-3 stars out of 5 and I think that’s fair. 2 or 3 depending on how much enjoyment you got. It’s an alright movie in total and there are fun things for JTTW fans (provided you’re not a purist who can’t stand any deviation from the book).

Subjectively, I’m giving this a 10/5 for shipping bias lmao but that won’t have anything to do with the pseudo-review below the cut. Just look at that picture.

It’s important to note that this is first and foremost a Tsui Hark film: his style, his direction, his tone. There are elements of Stephen Chow, but as far as Chow comedies go, this really isn’t and shouldn’t count as an example. 

Things that this movie deserves kudos for:

The soundtrack; it’s better than the prequel and more emotional overall

Sanzang outright puts his disciples on display and charges admission LOL

Fight scenes are great and special effects are pretty good for a non-Hollywood production

Then things get more subjective from here on out. Reviews ragged on the storyline for “lacking coherency/ having no story”- I disagree. It was streamlined enough, it just didn’t have that 3-act all-connection structure you’d expect from a popcorn movie. And I do fault the filmmakers for that because I doubt they set out to make an arthouse film- this was a blockbuster and it does need that high-and-low plotline most audiences want.

Characterization-wise, I think we got a pretty good sense of Wukong’s persona. His actor was the best one in Sanzang’s group. Different than the prequel’s Wukong but not exactly like any other adaptations either- Hark/Chow at least succeeded in creating a new Wukong. The trailers made him look hilariously angsty, but he’s not as emo as I thought he’d be- just has anger issues and a #resting bitch face. His desire to murder/hurt Sanzang, but also be liked/forgiven by Sanzang, combined with the inability to articulate that desire, was a checkmark. And that would’ve been a highlight if it wasn’t for what happens later (more on that below). I was also surprised by how downright... sexy his performance was, I’d tap him. 

I don’t see the point in giving Wukong 3 monkey forms, with none of them looking like the monkey from Conquering the Demons. I know the whole cast changed, but still, that tiny yet freaky CGI monkey didn’t have to change (I missed it!). 

Kris Wu was, er, not great, better than his other acting roles, but not as good as the prequel’s lead. But I could tell he was trying his best haha. That aside, the character- a lot of what he does really depends on what you think of him- a genuinely smart person, manipulative, kind? All of the above? I liked that aspect of the writing. Ultimately, he’s supposed to be a good person (carrying on from the prequel) and there’s one plot twist that I both love and hate because it does wonders for his character but also undermines something (more below- it’s the same thing with Wukong fyi).

The film didn’t forget Duan and she’s integral to the plot/Sanzang’s character so that was a plus. Her memory really connected Sanzang, Wukong, and the new love interest TM. And it’s a good choice to have the film “honor” her by not giving the new love interest TM half the love it gave Duan in the prequel. 

Bajie and Wujing didn’t get as much screentime as I expected. That was disappointing because Wujing looks awesome in the movie. They had great designs and aside from some funny lines, didn’t get to do much. 

I liked the final villain- it was a logical twist and the actress wasn’t bad . She was funny and unrepentant to the end (not gonna spoil who she is). The spider demons were really cool too- they just didn’t have much to do with the plot. Red Boy’s design was unexpected, but I thought it was creative and the best fight scene was his and Wukong’s. I don’t have much thoughts on the final, final fight because it was WILD lol, but the transition to Sanzang’s trump card could have been clearer.

As for the love interest TM (Eng. subs called her “Felicity” for some reason lol), I honestly did not care. She came into the plot when there were like, 30 minutes left (!?), knew Sanzang for 1 day, and suddenly is in love with him. Her death was alright and SPOILER she’s actually the white bone demon. I appreciated Sanzang not loving her back though- he saw a bit of Duan in her but that was it. He was actually “using” her. 

But she was the worst written character and it just felt repetitive for the love interest TM to die, especially when she’s this inconsequential.  I would have preferred her 1) getting introduced earlier, 2) getting a redemption arc and leaving alive, 3) providing a better explanation for why she was helping the big bad. She was so unimportant that her death wasn’t even there for #ManPain. Her role needed a lot of work. 

Humor-wise, some moments made me laugh (Chow’s writing there), but this is more of a dramedy than a comedy. The tone’s more “serious” than Chow’s movies, but the humor and drama do balance out- some jokes (or I think they’re supposed to be jokes) just fall flat. Chow fans will be disappointed though. I know I was. 

Now for that twist I love/hate:

Basically, Sanzang and Wukong have a dramatic fall-out, where Sanzang admits he hates Wukong for killing Duan, and it snowballs from there. But it was all an act Sanzang organized to trick the big bad into showing herself. This shows that he’s smart, makes the love interest TM things 10x less cliched, and shows he does have chemistry with his disciples, but it also leaves you going “huh?” in retrospect.

Because this twist makes you backtrack through the whole movie until you realize every conflict Sanzang had with his squad in the film was an act. Then where’s the actual character development? How did he and Wukong move past the Duan thing? At what point did Sanzang really win over his team? It’s a very good twist, but awkward in retrospect, like they cheated us out of character development.

Misc (subjective) thoughts:

The script wouldn’t have been so awkward if some events were switched around (ie. swap the order of the Biqu Kingdom scenes with the spider demon scenes)

Bajie is into BDSM- this isn’t even a joke. He really does have a kink for it. Also, it’s implied he has a thing for Wukong in addition to women lol

Thanks to that plot twist above, it’s implied that Sanzang walked up to Wukong and said, “Beat me up and eat me”- I’m not sure how to feel about this, this is the kinkiest group of pilgrims I’ve ever seen

Wukong/Sanzang is borderline canon by the end, and I don’t mean in the queerbaiting way (maybe I’m biased but I hope to have better sense than that! Plus, Tsui Hark doesn’t have to resort to that), but in a “this is as much as we can get through the censors in a high profile Chinese jttw adaptation- we did it because we wanted to lmao” way. Not spoiling this one fantastic bit at the very end, but let’s just say Steve/Bucky shippers only wish they had this much canon support. 

(Lastly, Kenny Lin said Wukong suffers from “unrequited love” in this movie. Make of that what you will, but this Great Sage was not straight imo.)

Overall:

It’s not a deep film, but I don’t think it’s completely meaningless. The story’s all over the place and you probably won’t care for any of the characters unless you’re like me already attached to the JTTW team regardless of their incarnation. It’s not a good comedy, but certainly not a total drama, and it does make you want to see what happens next. 

I’d rec it if you A) like mindless but well-choreographed action B) are crazy about JTTW like me C) are a fan of the leads, and/or D) ship Wukong/Sanzang

Chow has a sequel in mind and regardless of what bored people on the internet reviews say, this movie made money. So here’s to hoping he gets to make a trilogy! 

So I’ve been thinking about this a lot. When I first heard Jensen say Destiel doesn’t exist, I was (like most of the Destiel fandom) pretty hurt. I’ve since seen people attack him, people critique him, people defend him, and people applaud him. So I’m gonna go one-by-one through the most common responses I’ve seen in the past couple days and debunk them.

“He’s cute and hot! How could anyone say he’s a homophobe?”

What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Homophobes don’t look a certain way. You could see an ugly homophobe standing next to a hot as hell homophobe and they’d both be homophobes. The way Jensen Ackles looks doesn’t change the way he is on the inside. Good that we got the dumbest thing anyone’s ever said out of the way.

“He has gay friends/family members, so he isn’t homophobic.”

Uh huh. I once had a discussion with a white dude who loved saying the n word. He loved it. It was his favorite word. He claimed that he had a black friend who was cool with him doing it and thus he used it all the time. The dude had a black friend! Maybe more! Does that change the fact that he was racist? Hell no. There’s actual LGBT+ people out there who have internalized homophobia. If gay people can be homophobic, then why would we dismiss the homophobia of a man who just knows gay people?

“Lots of terrible things happen to him at cons. He’s mistreated.”

This is really true. He is groped and sexually harassed (from what I’ve read) at photo-ops and people ask him uncomfortable questions all the time. This is irrelevant, however. Everyone goes through hard things. Everyone. That doesn’t mean they have the right to say stupid, homophobic shit without consequences. The next time you want to argue on behalf of your favorite actor, do him the justice of making it a relevant and sensible argument.

“He was just stating his opinion.”

Yeah, in the rudest way possible. I’d have much preferred if he answered in the way Jared had when asked about Eileen. “Dean doesn’t room for romance right now” would have been a totally acceptable and neutral way of handling the question. You’re not promising anything and you’re not insulting anybody. The way he answered was beyond stating an opinion - it was rude and that is my main problem with it.

“He gets flustered at cons! He’s shy!”

He has done this before. He’s insulted Destiel before - sometimes to the point where he seemed to support Dean and Cas not having any sort of relationship. He’s never apologized. You know who else is shy? Me. And you guys aren’t gonna say “she gets flustered” before sending me hate for saying this about Jensen. No, you’re gonna attack me anyway. I’m barely an adult and he’s a middle-aged man but you’d be fine with ripping me a new one for critiquing his PR skills. That makes sense.

“Destiel is a fanservice ship.”

No, it isn’t. It’s the exact opposite. People ship Destiel because Cas and Dean have practically tangible chemistry and if one of them were a chick, they’d have banged a long time ago. Don’t fight me on this - it’s true. The biggest argument against it being fanservice is the fact that fans aren’t getting anything they want. They get queerbaiting instead. As I’ll discuss later, you cannot compare the average straight ship with a queer ship. They’re not the same. They don’t get canon/debunked for the same reasons. They’re not treated the same by the creators so we as fans can’t lose sight of their differences either. Hello? Homophobia exists? Jesus, you’d think this goes without saying.

“People shouldn’t ask ship related questions anyway.”

I’ve seen this one debunked already, but I feel like it needs to be said more to get into some people’s thick skulls. I guess I agree. The cast is not responsible for deciding where the story will go. They do not decide which ship becomes canon or not and even though they have views of where a character’s mindset is at times, they can’t be the final authority. I honestly couldn’t care less if Jensen is made uncomfortable by these questions, though. Mainly this is because he isn’t uncomfortable with people talking about straight ships or even about Dean fucking his car. Honestly? Getting “flustered” by a question about a queer ship is fucking pathetic. Jensen. You’re a grown ass man. Grow up. You’re not Dean. No one is accusing you of not being a straight man, okay? No need to be so defensive. Your masculinity isn’t being called into question, so you can put away your macho act and be a human being again, okay?

“Destiel doesn’t exist.”

Where? On the show? Maybe not. They are fictional characters, if that’s what you mean. No, it isn’t real. Neither is Dean Winchester. Neither is Castiel. None of it exists, in reality. But in regards to the fictional realm, what Jensen said was stupid because it simply wasn’t true. Destiel does exist. Thousands of fans interpret Cas and Dean’s relationship to be romantic and thus, to some extent, it exists. I wasn’t gonna say anything about queerbaiting, but the amount of unscripted touching between the two on the show should raise eyebrows now if it doesn’t exist. But if it really and truly doesn’t exist then where is all the defensiveness coming from? Why are people wasting their time making anti-blogs about it, if there’s no threat of it becoming canon? Why are people so passionate about hating it if it isn’t real? You guys do all the arguing for me, don’t you?

This isn’t a common argument, but you get this a lot: “Good job, Jensen, for telling those Destihellers off.”

Jensen Ackles, this is a warning. You’re getting yourself associated with the wrong sort. You do not want people to think you’re warming up to them, I promise. It is probably the shittiest PR move you could make, aligning yourself with homophobes. Don’t be proud of what you said. It was rude and cold and you were insulting a lot of the SPNfamily in the process. No one is saying you have to support Destiel, but this is disgusting.

Okay - here it goes (this has to be said):

It’s been five days since Trump was inaugurated into the presidency and he’s already promised to eliminate LGBT+ rights by placing FADA on his list of priorities. Jensen, you shouldn’t have said anything that could be construed as homophobic. Queer kids all over the country are terrified of how they’ll be treated in the future if FADA gets passed. Right now, you should be supporting these kids, helping them trust themselves, helping them feel assured. Instead, you’re bashing what a lot of people like me are clinging to. You can argue I’m just distracting from the argument, but this is relevant. Jensen is American. He knows what’s going on. Within days of Trump’s inauguration (was it two days after? I don’t remember.), he’s put salt on a wound.

It’s rare to find an LGBT+ character on TV who isn’t a goddamn stereotype. Bi and trans characters are especially hard to find. Bi characters are often ridiculously one-dimensional - a bi girl has a threesome, a bi guy is hiding that he’s actually gay. A lot of bi people like me love that Dean (who we interpret to be bisexual) is not a stereotype. He isn’t what straight people look at and think of as “gay” or “bi”. We cling to him because we’re living in a world where even people in the LGBT+ community can be biphobic. And Jensen just spat in our faces.

Speaking of, can all you non-bi or pan LGBT+ folk please stop using that when defending him? As in, please stop saying “as an LGBT+ person, y’all are overreacting”. If you’re not bi, this might not hurt you as much. I’ve seen gay people actually say “Destiel wouldn’t do anything for gay representation”. In actuality, we’re aiming for bi representation and seeing as you’re gay you have no right to say what would or wouldn’t help in terms of representation. I’m bi and I’m not overreacting. Other bi people out there who had their hearts broken aren’t overreacting. Though, as LGBT+, you should be concerned too. This is about a lot more than just a ship, guys. Thanks to homophobia, not all ships are created equal, and straight ships are not the same as queer ones.

I used to watch Gossip Girl when I was in middle school (embarrassing, I know). Every possible combination of straight ships had at some point become canon - even the more far-fetched ones. Every single one. I’ve since started disliking the show, but it is a useful comparison. No one complains when people bring up Dean/Amara (which was canonically nonconsensual) or Dean/Lisa at cons. They’re ships, too! I thought ships weren’t an appropriate topic at cons? Or is it okay because they’re straight? Is it okay because they actually have a shot? The fact that queer ships are clung onto so desperately due to the likelihood of them never coming true is tragic. We shouldn’t be afraid to say we ship something gay. We shouldn’t be afraid to bring it up in conversation. We should feel the same wobbly uncertainty that is inspired by straight ships. It should be a question of “will they won’t they” (and not in a queerbaiting way) instead of a feeling of “well, I know because it’s gay it’ll never happen but I still think it’s cute.” Most fan-favorite straight ships become canon in some way or another (across the board, in all TV shows) while queer ships are sneered at and thought of as taboo (the fact that Dean/Elena - a ridiculous straight crack ship - gets less hate and question marks than Destiel is a pretty good example of this. Honestly, you guys are fucking sad sometimes).

Why do we have to give up or surrender our ship just because it’s gay? That’s bullshit and I refuse.

I’m not saying Jensen is homophobic, I guess. Don’t attack me for it (or if you do, don’t use any of the arguments I’ve refuted. You’ll look like an idiot). He is obviously uneducated in regards to this. His comment was thoughtless and ignored context and timing. He said something rude that hurt people for all sorts of reasons. He has room to grow and if he does come forward and patch this up, I’ll be the first one to cry tears of joy. I’m against people sending him hate or death threats. Please don’t. Not only is that disgusting, but it sure as hell doesn’t convince him that we’re reasonable people who just want their ship acknowledged.

Also, if someone accuses you of being homophobic, instead of being defensive, maybe think of why they’d say so, and fix that.

Don’t be too quick to defend him. He’s an adult. He can do that himself. All you LGBT+ people out there shouldn’t be apologizing for him, either. Stand by those of us who are genuinely and rightfully hurt. What he said isn’t okay and nobody who’s hurt here is overreacting. If you think this isn’t a big deal, you’re not looking at the whole picture. There is a war being fought in regards to LGBT+ representation in media and someone claiming that gay-shippers are delusional is not helping.

I’m actually hoping that this will receive 0 notes and no one will see it. Like I’ve said, I’m super shy and I don’t really wanna tag this with anything someone will find but at the same time, it annoys me how this has gotten brushed over. I’m posting so late because it took a while for me to actually process my thoughts into something comprehensible.

also wtf who designed rune factory 4 this way THIS IS MY ONLY COMPLAINT IN AN AMAZING GAME why are all the romance routes entirely random?? even after youve reached the relationship milestones its COMPLETELY RANDOM whether the event will start every day same for every friendship event and town event and even some plot events you just have to sit there at your bed constantly skipping days for multiple years til the random number god gives you the marriage scene you did EVERYTHING to earn this marriage scene and you have nothing left to do but wait and youll never see any new events with that character until it happens, and you have a very limited amount of dates to go on while youre waiting, and they all do NOTHING except raise the relationship bar over maximum which does nothing. doesnt even increase the chance of the random event?? why even LET me increase it over maximum if it does nothing? thats just tricking me into thinking i havent unlocked the marriage event yet! when I HAVE and i just need to WAIT A BAZILLION YEARS OF RANDOM

anyway i finally got Leon’s random marriage quest and it was Awesome and So Many Tears and now im even more conflicted on who to marry gahhhhh its such a shame you cant resolve everyone’s plot unless you date them, i feel so bad dating all these people when im not able to marry them all, just cos i wanna fix their lives and make them happy but then theyre gon be sad that we didnt get married aaaa

and Leon is especially saddddd

now cos his whole plot is that he had a depressing scenario with a friend as a kid. She loved him but he saw her as just a little sister, and he jokingly promised to marry her once when they were too young to understand. And he didnt know she took it seriously until after he DIED and reincarnated as a fox monster person centuries later too late to do anything about it. And he’s crushed full of guilt that he somehow led her on, and he was never able to apologise, and he’s scared she spent her whole life waiting for him to come back. and then you get this very cool series of sidequests thatre a realistic look at translating languages, and its really motivational how leon is able to help bring knowledge of a dead language back to life and preserve the ancient culture that people thought was lost BUT THEN ENDLESS FUCKIN TRAGEDY kiel accidentally finds an old diary of leon’s friend (WHAT ARE THE ODDS) and he has frickin detailed anxiety attacks unable to even hold the damn paper cos he’s shaking so much and you go on a big treasure hunt to find all the pages and he’s just CRYING SO MUCH mr playboy man! mr flirty asshole! mr stoic! he’s fuckin crying and he cant hold a book without your help and aaaa and his whole story is about how he isnt really the negative stereotypes of a flirty character, he really REALLY values love and he feels depressed he cant love everyone who loves him, so he tries to fake it. And he tries to push people away whenever it seems genuine, but also like... entertain them enough that they dont feel he doesnt love them, i guess? and no matter how promiscuous a person is, they still cant love EVERYONE, you cant just force a relationship on them and say they must be asking for it cos they date other people and enjoy sex. its so depressing that he considers his biggest flaw that he wasnt able to force himself to love someone he didnt, especially when he did care about her, just as a best friend instead! if theyd just talked about it, it would have saved all this heartache for both of them! so then we start piecing together this book and it looks like his worst fears are confirmed, she spent her whole life waiting for him and hating him and its really fucking EXPLODINGLY SAD and then the quest is a bit confusing so i spent several days stuck on this point not knowing who to talk to next, going through random dungeons in case that somehow helped. turned out i did find the right spot but the quest just doesnt progress until you talk to the right person first GAH! stuck for five days on crying leon scene!! NOOOOOO but I finally got past it and CLIMACTIC HAPPY END or bittersweet end more like we find out we mistranslated one bit which was actually PAGE NUMBERS, and we were missing a page all along! and then the final page reveals that she actually moved on and found a new love and had a happy family and grew old together, and her only frustration with leon was imagining that he couldnt find the same thing, worrying that she’d betrayed him. So this wasnt a diary, it was actually a letter she wrote for him to find, having confidence he’d wake up someday and have another chance at happiness! She just wanted him to know that she kept his memory alive and she’s sorry and she was happy and AAAAAAUUUGH im tearing up again the bit that really got me was that we find out that leon’s favourite romance novel was actually written by her. It was so popular it survived into the modern day as a literature classic, and it convinces him that she really was happy with her new boyfriend if she could write something as beautiful as this. And he wants to embody the spirit of the book with you, and keep his new promise to her to have a happy family of his own :) ... AGHHHHHHHHAAAAAHHHHH why cant i marry everyone why do so many of them have plots where it seems like they wont be happy unless i love them... even now i dont really think the leon pairing is my favourite, i wish i could have had this plot as a friendship route! i think it would have resonated just as much since the whole backstory is about him being friends with someone who had unrequited love for him. i wanna be leon’s bestie and ultimate wingman! I like him a lot but I dont really think i wanna marry him! IM SO SORRY LEON AAAA he’s such a soulful beefcake dammit I’m sure he’d find a bazillion better lovers! I’m sure a lot of players did marry him! WHY DO I FEEL SO GUILTY AAAAA its not fair, aaaa arthur was the first one i dated and i also really care about him but in his case his way of acting in the romance isnt very different to when youre just friends so i dont think i wanna commit to that relationship maybe? it might change when i see his final random event but i dont get much ���he’ll be happy with you’ vibes, its just strengthening their powerful brotp that they had from the start of the game. he feels like someone protagonist would indeed date, but theyd part again on friendly terms after it didnt work out, and then be amicable exes who still care a lot about each other. and I just feel like I wanna marry dylas even though he’s had the least tragic events so far. gahhhh! he just seems SO HAPPY dating you, and has loads of character development since it started, unlike the other two ive seen the dates for. he feels like he’s actually getting something out of this that he wouldnt if we were just friends? its so hard trying to weigh up the pros and cons of romance options in games when im inacapble of actually being attracted to anyone, its just ‘i care about you all and i wanna give you the best possible ending’. I haaaaate when games have it so that romance is always the best possible ending for every single character and they all suffer forever if you dont pick them :P and I havent even seen the romances with the other three dudes yet! GAHHHHH!! Theyre all the ones I wasnt immediately interested in dating, but that opinion could totally change, i could end up with a six way tie :P ... ALSO RANDOM BUT is anyone else really uncomfortable with the queerbaiting in this game? there is a LOt, a LOT of ‘lol maybe gay’, sometimes so clear that it seems the game is outright canonically stating this character is gay or bisexual yet you have no option to marry them unless youre the opposite sex. It gets REALLY uncomfortable with Dylas, he just,,, does not express any interest in women at all unless the player pursues him. And his mutual crush with doug is CONSTANTLY REFERENCED, and called out very clearly for what it is. IOf the game didnt keep pointing it out i would have been able to shrug it off as just accidental chemistry from a failed rivalry plotline or something, but we have EVERYONE saying ‘oh a lover’s quarrel’ and ‘be honest about your feelings’ and ‘i bet you wanna see doug in a swimsuit’ and ‘gee i really wanna see doug in a swimsuit’ and IT CANT BE ANY MORE CANON THAN THIS. And.. like.. Dylas even says he DOESNT wanna see women in swimsuits, he’s just here at the beach cos Doug might come along. He does not express any interest in women at all except the protagonist! It makes me feel SO uncomfortable! it feels like he’s actually gay, when with most other characters they seem bisexual?? I dunno how to explain it, thats just how it comes off to me. Why is there no option for him and doug to date, why cant i date him as the male protagonist?? His romance route is so totally gender neutral, i did the postgame protagonist swap cheat and it just feels more in-character for him this way. if im gonna steal him away from Doug i dont want it to be a weird gay conversion therapy type thing, it just feels so WEIRD. The one and ONLY stated crush he has on another character, and its gay, and theres NO OPTION FOR IT TO HAPPEN and then he suddenly becomes 100% straight and never talks about doug again if a fem protagonist dates him. SO WEEEEEIRD... I’m just gonna sit here on the non-canon bonus feature dylas x male protag train and never leave. If you cant have doug you shall have the transitioned me! Its funny cos he’s like the only batchelor i very vehemently cannot ship with fem protag, yet do with male protag :P but GAHHH leon deserves a family and i could give him a child and aaaaa SO HARD TO CHOOSE also i am sad that the postgame cheatmode lets you switch to any character but if its not one of the two protags its only your overworld model and not your face portraits. Its weird because every batchelor and batchelorette has the exact same full set of emotions and costumes, so why cant i access that?? its also a shame cos it means i cant roleplay my doug and dylas marriage properly :P CMON MAN WHY U EVEN TELL ME THEY IN LOVE IF THEY CANT BE IN LOVE :P they have the best portmanteau ship name too! douglas! :P