So am I to understand that the firefighter kissed a dude on screen, then the actor publicly said via multiple major publications that fans have been right all along? No one used the phrase ‘open to interpretation’ or suggested that heavenly love was different than romantic love? A fellow cast member didn’t publicly compare the romance to parental incest? No other cast member declaring everyone knew it was a romance in a live stream that was then virtually deleted from the internet? Wow. Is this real life?

Man i love bitchy sam but i so don't understand how people would think he'd be the same person after eons of being tortured in hell and every god awful thing he went through. Even after s4 sam was never the same. Yes i think the writing could go better in late seasons in many ways but what do you expect even. Plus sam DOES has the sass even in late season, jared still channels it but also like, he is fucked up kicked down and tortured and traumaized man and how do you want him to stay the same cocky bold and bitchy twink he used to be when he was still a baby!???

people on this site are so addicted to the fanon that dean controls/wants to control every facet of sam's life and body and violate his autonomy as much as possible that they'll just accept completely batshit unrecognizable "meta" as gospel truth. the braincells, where are they? the reading comprehension, where has it gone? the critical thinking??

“Yall don’t know him like I know him.”

Except what I mean is that I know the character in question to be, in fact, the most irredeemable piece of shit on the whole show, and am pulling my hair out over the fact that you guys think he’s a lil pookie.

my controversial spn take is that had rowena looked, like, 5-7 years younger than she did, samwena would be a more popular ship than saileen and the only real reason saileen is more popular is bc for all the talk of loving milfs in digital spaces, even (and sometimes especially) queer digital spaces, as a society we still have it deeply ingrained into us that women over the age of 35/40 are undesirable and because of this alone, consciously or unconsciously, i feel like a good portion of people see eileen as a much better love interest for sam.

There is one type of apologist I will freely admit to being and will likely always be.

That one character whose name comes with a blank check for past and future crime in perpetuity.

Rowena Macleod.

I am begging people to stop posting

It should count as a human rights violation to ever have to hear a destiel shipper's opinion on Supernatural. Or anything frankly.

Given the utterly deranged and wrong things Jarpiss thinks about Supernatural and Dean, along with Jackles general contempt for the asshole, I am starting to think an actual SPN reboot would be impossible.

Jackles could attempt to close off Dean and Cas's stories in a proper way within The Winchesters if he gets more seasons of that, or perhaps bring out another spin off focused on Dean and Cas after having escaped to another universe perhaps?

But a full on SPN reboot with Jarpiss once again taking on the role of Sam? Honestly I think its unlikely.

The only other way to do it is either recast Sam, or wait another decade or so and then reboot SPN again from scratch but with a whole new cast of twentysomethings.

I doubt they'd recast Sam, as even with Jackles contempt and Jarpiss's general appalling behaviour, it would fire up so much bad press and piss of the deluded bronly/j*red stans so much they'd prob get violent (theyve been known to in the past).

So what does everyone think the options are here? A proper send off in The Winchesters? A new spin off focused on Dean and Cas? (Which could also generate controvery in itself), or a full reboot with all new cast and Jackles taking on a producer role and maybe some time travel hijynx for him and Misha to cameo as older Dean and Cas (like they did in the Star Trek reboot movies).

Personally I'd like a mix of all these options! So long as we get proper closure for Dean and Cas's stories, which I genuinely believe at this point is Jackles ultimate goal in whatever he is planning.

lookit that tagging. Like.

This is not why I follow the "Sam Winchester" tag. This is a stupid take for a show that's entire core is "Sam and Dean."

dean winchester deserved so much better than that bullshit series finale. i still despise the finale & will not change my mind about it ever

Funny how a professional author and screenwriter summarised the plot of a TV show, in which one being stood infront of another and admitted his feelings, and one of the beings could not reciprocate at that time, and one of them also got blasted to another plane of existence leaving the other depressed and alone, as romantic.

Funny, you mean to tell me that's not platonic dude-bro behaviour? Who'd have ever guessed that was romantic, eh SPN.

Honestly I am gonna say something: as someone who has come into the SPN fandom following 15x18 craze I too was very vocal about "them" being homophobic and calling the fans "delusional" without actually ever asking who those "they" were in the first place? Maybe I don't know fandom history well enough or don't think there is much point in it after the confession but I get the impression that people will often be angry with the writers for "queerbaiting". That was also something I was aware of for years before I started watching spn at all.

I think everyone who blames writers for queerbaiting in spn is wrong. SPN is queer not because a bunch of fans decided they were gonna have a very queer field day with this seemingly "macho" show. It is queer because for years writers neatly put one subtly queer block on another to build a queer narrative. Sadly they couldn't be as vocal about it as Neil Gaiman is because a)homophobia was more rampant back then b) the network had done market research and the results said that destiel wasn't something people wanted. Yes, throughout the years there have been some writers in the mix and some actors (jared for example is still very anti destiel. Jensen for me is on probation rn lmao) who were against destiel but I would say that most people in the winters room were very much on the board and made very specific choices to prove this. Remember when Misha said , even years before the confession how they were all aware of Destiel and had had talks about it? How Mark Sheppard said they all knew Cas was in love with Dean? I feel like Destiel was an established idea amongst the creatives working in the show it's just that they couldn't be vocal about it because well, if anyone is going to be blamed for any homophobic crimes it's the C*W network isn't it? And after the whole Misha biasco and how the network was urging him to stay out as bi because that would be more profitable, I didn't even think the anti destiel stance was really fueled by homophobia but more likely by their conviction that most of their viewers would absolutely flip shit if Dean Winchester was anything other than straight. And yes, you will ask WHO wouldn't want Destiel to be canon?? And I'll tell you that I know it feels hard to believe that people would watch SPN for anything besides Destiel or the queer themes so intricately woven into it but having been to a SPN convention now I can say that these people very much exist and most likely were the group they used for market research back in the day.

Sorry this got a lot longer than anticipated but all in all, I think (most) writers very much always saw dean & cas as romantic because they write them as romantic and tbh at this point I'm under the impression that nobody is trying to nohomo Dean & Cas. Except wincesties, that Adam Williams dude and Clif & other few 'Dean can only be straight because he is part of my straight fantasy' girlies. And some con organizers. Which is an entire new topic tbh and, again, I do not know a lot about fandom history, but I think most transgression against fans was always comitted at cons and cons are the 'sales' side not the 'creative' side of things so they would have to follow the networks guidelines. Or sometimes make their own stupid choices I guess (sincerely, fuck you Daniela).

it's incredibly infuriating that people forget john's dying words to dean was "you have to watch out for Sammy, you have to save sam" that killing sam was the "if you can't save him you'll have to kill him" and god i try not to be mean but let me be mean this one time, the dumbest fucking take in the entire world is to interpret this as "he'd be happy to let Sam die, he'd rather save dean" like god if you don't understand the weight of john's last words to dean being ABOUT SAM, about centering sam once again as dean's responsibility and life goal, then i don't know what to say to you.

might follow this up with more thoughtful meta and less of a vent but I gotta get this out: I finally got around to watching the second half of season 9 for the first time since 2019 and boy do I want answers. namely how did half of fandom (it feels like) get convinced that the season is a rape narrative and that sam's anger and response to the experience have anything to do with the trauma of possession and lacking bodily autonomy. I'll be honest, I was expecting to see where that reading comes from on this rewatch, and instead I realized how objectively inaccurate and misleading an analysis it is. and no, it's not 'open to interpretation'--it's very clear what the conflict is, why Sam reacts the way he does, and what the story arc is; it has everything to do Dean lying to Sam, treating him not like an equal partner but like the little brother that needs to be protected--and here's the crucial part--at the expense of others, and especially at the expense of Kevin's life, and what that means about their priorities and values as hunters. it's got nothing to do with the horrors of possession. it's got everything to do with Sam and Dean's ethical role in the world, their net effect for good or ill. and it's also tied up in Sam's martyr complex. it's a perfectly natural extension of his arc in every season up till now, his struggle with his personal innate nature, and his desire to be and do good.

The cool thing is that when you view season 9 as it's meant to be viewed, you see how perfect a response season 10 is, with its mirror narrative. the idea that season 9 and gadreel are an unhealed trauma hanging over sam and dean is totally false. in 8-10 each brother struggles with his own self-worth, feels they'd be better off dead--and there's situations where the world may be better off with them dead!--and the other brother goes to unethical lengths to save him, because they realize, and ultimately both accept, that they can't lose the other, not under those circumstances. lines like "don't go thinking that's the problem because it's not" and "I lied," that frustrated me before with their opacity, make perfect sense now that my view is no longer clouded by fan-invented discourse. they're linchpins in a cohesive, balanced, multi-season emotional story arc that bring sam and dean to a place of equal footing.

The sort of ironic part is that, I realize now, I never fully understood Sam's perspective in the conflict before. season 9 was stressful for me in the past, because, being a fan first and foremost of the brother bond, I could only really see Dean's perspective and interpret Sam's anger as a rejection of the bond. but I felt that I ought to be able to see Sam's side; I didn't want to just be angry at the character or his writing. so when I came to tumblr in the finale-induced craze of 2020 and read so much meta predicated on the idea of Sam carrying this deep wound over the bodily violation of Gadreel, I more or less thought 'oh I guess that's what I was missing, all these fans who call themselves sam stans repeat it unquestioningly so there must be truth to it, they ought to understand their own favorite character.' How silly of me, to ever trust internet fandom on anything (or stans on the character they stan). I should've returned to the source material ages ago, would've saved me a lot of headache. because I do understand Sam's behavior perfectly now. it doesn't anger me, because I get and sympathize with his values, just as I do with Dean's. turns out when you actually watch the show and don't try to force it to conform to your fan-made narrative, it actually makes sense.

Gay af for a man to wear hot dog pants tbh

Like what, relish some buns and wieners, do you?

I didn’t even insult you.

Anyway, Jack is Sam’s son <3