i hate to be this big of a hater but every time i see people complain about show jaime in s8 with “all that development and for what?” what development exactly?

I understand that there is a sizable amount of Jon stans whose delusions can be aggravating. Trust me, I’ve come across my fair share of people who think that the sun rises only for Jon Snow and no one else. But, it’s really annoying when certain sections of this fandom act like reading Jon as Azor Ahai is a result of Jon fans making shit up. No, we’re not. We’re literally reading what the text is telling us. We’re not reading into it, we’re reading it straight up. Mel’s singular ADWD chapter is literally just: hey Mel pay attention to Jon Snow, also there’s random stuff happening all over Westeros, and also pay extra attention to Jon Snow.

Mel’s visions are absolutely correct. What’s not correct is how she interprets them to fit an agenda/make herself appear more credible to others (Jon, Stannis). We already know exactly what this looks like when she sees towers being submerged in water, says it’s Eastwatch by the Sea when asked, even though in her head she’s like “oh it can’t be Eastwatch because that place doesn’t look like that”.

ADWD shows us that Mel looks into her fires searching for Azor Ahai and sees “only Snow”. There’s no other way of reading that other than “oh yeah if Mel is specifically looking for Azor Ahai and is seeing Jon Snow, then Jon is the Azor Ahai she’s looking for”. And the gag with this is Mel’s entire purpose, her existence, is to find Azor Ahai. But she completely misidentifies him so when she encounters the real deal, she’s in far too deep to make the obvious and necessary pivot. And it’s even funnier (and I think that’s what GRRM is going for) when there’s nothing special about Mel’s chosen hero Stannis, but there’s a lot that is special about the one she’s ignoring: Jon. Mel literally tells Jon “you’re a super special magic boy let’s make babies because of how super special you are, and these babies will be even more powerful than the ones I made with Stannis” but at the same time being like “yeah mr not-that-special Stannis is totally the guy I’m looking for”.

Plus, Mel’s “only Snow” is quite literally reaffirmed in Jon XII when he dreams himself atop the wall, armored in ice, and wielding LIGHTBRINGER. This isn’t some ordinary flaming sword. This sword burns “red in his fist”, which literally equates it to “the red sword of heroes” - Azor Ahai’s sword. Not only that but Mel’s ptwp is definitely going to be reborn. She has visions about a grey girl on a dying horse WHICH IS TRUE!! What’s not true is this girl being Arya. It’s Alys Karstark. She then has visions about daggers in the dark, which again happens!! Read the last few pages of Jon XIII ADWD. The one that hasn’t come yet but will (based on Jon XIII) is a “promised prince born amidst salt and smoke”. There’s a reason why GRRM included these things in the narrative. And there’s a reason why they happen sequentially. So unless Winds comes out and GRRM is like sike forget that ever happened, it’s pretty safe to assume that Jon is Azor Ahai.

Jonsas never mention the fact that Jon dreamed of being a conqueror like King Daeron, I wonder why…

(Do you really "wonder why" or are you content making vague implications you don't care to spell out because it would make them even easier to refute?)

Why don't we spend our days talking about this?

Because GRRM mentions it twice, and both times he already dismantles it?

The first time it's a drunk 14-year-old trying to justify why he's already superqualified to join the Night's Watch, hoping to become a glamorously exciting ranger.

"Daeren Targaryen was only fourteen when he conquered Dorne," Jon said. The Young Dragon was one of his heroes." A conquest that lasted a summer," his uncle pointed out. "Your Boy King lost ten thousand men taking the place, and another fifty trying to hold it. Someone should have told him that war isn't a game." He took another sip of wine. "Also," he said, wiping his mouth, "Daeren Targaryen was only eighteen when he died. Or have you forgotten that part?" (AGOT, Jon I)

Young conquerors who get thousands killed and die young. Hello Robb. Hello..., well, let's not spoil anything else, I guess. His idealization is immediately reprimanded, for Jon the character and for the reader.

The second time, it's in direct contrast to the complex politics Jon-the-Lord-Commander is engaging in to balance out the interests of multiple dangerous parties so the maximum amount of human beings survive the winter and the Others, without killing each other - and secretly rescue his little sister on top of it.

When Jon had been a boy at Winterfell, his hero had been the Young Dragon, the boy king who had conquered Dorne at the age of fourteen. Despite his bastard birth, or perhaps because of it, Jon Snow had dreamed of leading men to glory just as King Daeron had, of growing up to be a conqueror. Now he was a man grown and the Wall was his, yet all he had were doubts. He could not even seem to conquer those. (ADWD, Jon VII)

The pivotal message here is that rulership is not that simple, not that glorious, not as banal as conquest. Jon is no longer a child hoping to compensate for his painful childhood with a power fantasy of being admired and adored for impressive feats of warfare. It's put into direct contrast with his actual challenges as a leader.

And wouldn't you know it, the moment Jon has a glamorous speech rallying men to march into war with him? That's the one moment GRRM chooses to undercut by immediately following it with his assassination. He will never ever depict war and battle as positive things, even with sympathetic characters. Even in defense, but especially related to conquest.

These things are not exactly subtle. GRRM is using Daeron and the way characters discuss him as a short-cut to criticising wars of conquest and those who glamorize them. Jon grows beyond that within the span of the books. His relationship with conquerors, especially in relation to the North, is bound to be conflicted.

So.. no, you're not seeing jonsas making a ton of posts about it. It's pretty clear-cut.

do you think sansa x willas could still happen? i read somewhere that grrm said that he wished willas (among with other characters) was in the show bc him and garlan are going to be in the last two books

I didn’t remember that quote anon, but I’m quite intrigued by it:

Before we get carried away though, just above it he mentions Jeyne Poole:

(link)

Obviously, we loved seeing Jeyne again, and she’s a big part of Theon’s story in ADWD, the belief that Ramsay has Arya is important to the Northern Lords and Jon, but we don’t actually get much of Jeyne in there? Lots of impact on the Northern plot, but I didn’t get major vibes for her, her story, and seeing that…well, kinda makes me worry about when he talked about having plans for Rickon and that it might be something similar. Less about him as a character, more about his existence impacting the plot in big ways (Northern succession crisis). So I think we must be very careful when trying to figure out his plans based on his interviews, he’s kinda operating on a different wavelength than we do. I’d imagine that part of needing to have preexisting characters around is making King Bran believable, having lords who might choose him to be their leader will be important in selling that ending imo.

As for a Sansa/Willas romance, I really do think Sansa goes North and that she’s pivotal in getting LF’s head stuck on Winterfell’s walls. We have two prophecies (girl in grey, maid slaying a "giant") and Sansa building Winterfell out of snow and sticking a dolls head on the walls which all seem to be leading there. Once she’s in Winterfell again, I can’t imagine her wanting to leave Winterfell, even if the idea of a betrothal is floated later? Willas was an escape from Lannisters so she quickly romanticized the possibility of marrying him, but once she is home, nothing will feel safer. And whether Jon, Rickon, or Bran is KitN, no matter who appears first or is recognized as head of House Stark, (and I still hold out hope for QitN Sansa!), I can’t imagine one of them forcing her to, not after what she’s been through. I think the surviving heroes have to evolve past previous missteps.

In an AU, Sansa x Willas could be very sweet though! I talked about it some here.

Do you have any thoughts on what Dany and Tyrion's dynamic will be like when they eventually meet?

Oh, this one is tough. Mostly because, well... Both characters are left at key moments that could dramatically change them. ADWD Tyrion is a mess, but Dany gives him some hope; and Dany ends the book with a dramatic pivot that is very difficult to speculate because it's a *negative* pivot in which her characterisation throughout the book is rejected and we don't have a chance to quite peek into where she's going, just where she's *not*.

Ultimately... I think that my ideal relationship is one of Tyrion's worst traits accentuating here; he’s being delivered as one of the Usurper's Dogs to Dany, and I think Dany will grant him mercy. And I think ultimately Tyrion will find himself clinging onto her for dear life; I wouldn't at all be surprised if we see Dany directly compared to Sansa for Tyrion, and not in a particularly pleasant way for the reader.

Fundamentally, I think Tyrion is at such a broken state that he'll encourage her worst impulses; he'll embrace, to some extent, the monster everyone thinks he is, the Imp, the dwarf vizier to the dragon queen, and he'll try to cling onto her for a chance to get back at Cersei and Jaime.

That's pretty much what I've got; I think we'll see a Tyrion that is hanging on for dear life on Dany, and a Dany who will show him mercy, and will probably be suspicious at first but will be advised - and to an extent, manipulated - by Tyrion. One key element that will definitely play into their bond will be Tyrion's affinity for her dragons.

Can I ask why you’re anti Daenerys? I’ve read some of your posts but I still don’t really understand your pov

Hello anon! I actually don't hate Daenerys, she's one of my favorite characters, but I think that everything in the series points towards her having an unhappy ending. Some of her fans don't like hearing this at all, so I tag all my posts as "anti Daenerys" even if they're about the negative symbolism of amethysts in her chapters or speculations about her upcoming political alliances. Better safe than sorry.

Now the reason why I'm sure she won't get a happy ending is pretty simple. Her main motivation during the first books was to reclaim the Seven Kingdoms, because thanks to her shitty brother, Daenerys started to conflate them with the house with the red door, the place where she was allowed to be a child and her caretaker wasn't a delusional pedophile. But while wanting a sedentary lifestyle and a loving adult to take care of her is perfectly valid and understandable, conquering another country and getting a lot of people killed because she feels lonely is wrong.

After arriving to Meereen, Daenerys decided to abandon her goal and stay in the city to try stabilize the political situation and keep slavery abolished. Even if she was making some serious mistakes, for a while it seemed like her character arc was pivoting towards her undoing the damage caused by the Empire of Valyria. But then in her last ADWD's chapter her hallucinations are chanting about dragons planting no trees and dragons being her real children, so it made sense to assume she would abandon the olive trees she planted in Meereen before they could grow and give fruit and resume her conquest campaign. And what a coincidence, Victarion is going to Meereen with a fleet big enough to bring her armies to the Seven Kingdoms.

Maybe this wouldn't be a problem in another series, but one of the central themes of ASOIAF, if not the central theme, it's the consequences of war on people. The narrative consistently punished all the characters who brutalized civilians during wartime, Renly got brochetted, Tywin shat himself, Balon got pushed off a bridge and Theon got reeked. Even the Starks and Tullys got punished for their war crimes, and they were fighting in self-defense and then to declare independence. I don't think he will make an exception for Daenerys.

Like, maybe I'm completely wrong and she'll use the fleet to liberate the slaves of Volantis, but so far it seems like her character arc is heading towards trying to conquer the Seven Kingdoms. And if she does that she's doomed.

Okay, so I need to distract myself from Moon Knight for a bit so I’ll pivot over to ASOIAF instead. Specifically thinking about Jon Snow, I wonder if he may become a fully fledged skinchanger in TWOW? 

It’s established in the books that all the Stark children are wargs with their connection to their direwolves, to varying degrees of ability. But being a warg doesn’t necessarily make one able to skinchange into other animals. [For the purpose of this post, I will refer to warging as solely having control over wolves (/and dogs) and skinchanging as having control over any and all kinds of animals; that is how the author describes it so I shall too.]

Of the siblings, Bran is clearly the most powerful: a warg, skinchanger, and greenseer too. His fall leaves him in a coma, which results in Bran experiencing his first meeting with the Three-Eyed Crow. But it’s not until the second book that Bran feels he can truly reach beyond himself, and beyond his direwolf, Summer:

He remembered who he was all too well; Bran the boy, Bran the broken. Better Bran the beastling. Was it any wonder he would sooner dream his Summer dreams, his wolf dreams? Here in the chill damp darkness of the tomb his third eye had finally opened. He could reach Summer whenever he wanted, and once he had even touched Ghost and talked to Jon.

— A Clash of Kings, Bran VII

It’s not the first time Bran has warged into Summer, so clearly something has changed this time. In ASOS and ADWD, we can see Bran further his abilities by skinchanging into different animals and even a human.

Arya is also a very powerful warg like her brother. She can reach out to Nymeria despite considerable time apart and over a large land distance. Though Pre-ADWD, she is only able to connect with her direwolf, not any other animals. It is specifically after she loses her eyesight that Arya starts being able to skinchange into cats. 

So that loss of sight (Bran being engulfed in the darkness of the crypts and Arya actually loosing her eyesight) is what seems to awaken the latent skinchanging ability. TWOIAF does make mention of something regarding this:

These new Lorathi were worshippers of Boash, the Blind God. Rejecting all other deities, the followers of Boash ate no flesh, drank no wine, and walked barefoot through the world, clad only in hair shirts and hides. Their eunuch priests wore eyeless hoods in honor of their god; only in darkness, they believed, would their third eye open, allowing them to see the "higher truths" of creation that lay concealed behind the world's illusions. The worshippers of Boash believed that all life was sacred and eternal; that men and women were equal; that lords and peasants, rich and poor, slave and master, man and beast were all alike, all equally worthy, all creatures of god.

— The World of Ice and Fire, The Free Cities: Lorath

Jojen also provides some insight on the opening of the third eye:

"How would I break the chains, Jojen?" Bran asked.

"Open your eye."

"They are open. Can't you see?"

"Two are open." Jojen pointed. "One, two."

"I only have two."

"You have three. The crow gave you the third, but you will not open it." He had a slow soft way of speaking. "With two eyes you see my face. With three you could see my heart. With two you can see that oak tree there. With three you could see the acorn the oak grew from and the stump that it will one day become. With two you see no farther than your walls. With three you would gaze south to the Summer Sea and north beyond the Wall."

— A Clash of Kings, Bran IV

Additional note by Bloodraven:

"Never fear the darkness, Bran." The lord's words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong."

— A Dance with Dragons, Bran III

The darkness, or shall I say sensory deprivation, is key here. Jojen (greendreams) and Varamyr (skinchanging) are two other characters with such supernatural abilities, and since both of them are described as being sickly in their childhood, it’s possible some kind of sensory deprivation state came about as a result of their childhood sickness.

Regarding the abilities of the other siblings, Rickon was also present in the crypts alongside Bran, but since he is a non-pov, it’s not really possible to say how exactly he is affected. Though I will say this, considering his young age, Rickon does seem to be incorporating large aspects of Shaggydog’s nature the same way Shaggydog is incorporating Rickon’s nature. In terms of describing their personalities, it’s hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. Moving on to Sansa, she is an interesting case because Lady died near the start of the story. Sansa still has warging potential but the skinchanging seems rather unlikely since I don’t see a situation in Sansa’s future where some kind of sensory deprivation could take place (who knows, it might happen, it might not).

Robb & Jon are in a similar situation where they both are somewhat aware of the connection they have with their direwolves. But both of them, over the course of their stories, start to deny this part of themselves (eg. locking up their direwolf).

The Varamyr prologue chapter introduces us to skinchanging 101, and one of the things we’re told is that Jon has great potential:

He had known what Snow was the moment he saw that great white direwolf stalking silent at his side. One skinchanger can always sense another. Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king. He could have done it, he did not doubt. The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it.

— A Dance with Dragons, Prologue

Varamyr acknowledges Jon’s latent skinchanging ability. Should a situation arise where Jon also experiences sensory deprivation, he could tap into that latent skinchanging ability he has. Though it’s not enough to simply have the ability, you need to be able to acknowledge that part of yourself. Jon does sometimes try to deny it. Robb, from what we saw of him, had a similar tendency; fluctuating between keeping Grey Wind always by his side and trying to limit their connection.

Part of the reason Bran and Arya are such powerful wargs, is that they fully embrace the nature of a human’s connection with their direwolf, and so they’re able to further that into their latent skinchanging ability easier than their siblings:

She took a deep breath, then lifted the broomstick in both hands and brought it down across her knee. It broke with a loud crack, and she threw the pieces aside. I am a direwolf, and done with wooden teeth.

— A Clash of Kings, Arya X

Yes, Arya thought. Yes, it's you who ought to run, you and Lord Tywin and the Mountain and Ser Addam and Ser Amory and stupid Ser Lyonel whoever he is, all of you better run or my brother will kill you, he's a Stark, he's more wolf than man, and so am I.

— A Clash of Kings, Arya VIII

I won't be afraid. He was the Prince of Winterfell, Eddard Stark's son, almost a man grown and a warg too, not some little baby boy like Rickon. Summer would not be afraid.

— A Storm of Swords, Bran III

"I'd sooner be a wolf. Then I could live in the wood and sleep when I wanted, and I could find Arya and Sansa. I'd smell where they were and go save them, and when Robb went to battle I'd fight beside him like Grey Wind. I'd tear out the Kingslayer's throat with my teeth, rip, and then the war would be over and everyone would come back to Winterfell. If I was a wolf . . ." He howled. "Ooo-ooo-oooooooooooo."

— A Clash of Kings, Bran I

Both of them even react in the same appreciative way to hearing about Robb's warging/connection with wolves. This is something we don’t really see with their siblings.

Jon most likely warged into Ghost upon his “death”. So that will certainly build a closer bond between the two. Depending on Jon’s internal psyche (if he has dreams in the crypts) and what state his body is kept in, he could very well be resurrected with his latent skinchanging ability awakened.

TLDR; I would like to see Jon skinchange Mormont’s raven.

Jon Snow Month 2022

Day 1: Favourite books, chapters or arcs

A Game of Thrones

Despite the fact that ADWD is my favourite Jon's arc, I've decided to remind what an amazing character Jon had already been in AGOT, since I felt like there would be enough talk of ASOS and ADWD Jon without me.

To be quite honest, I can go spiralling about his arc for hours, lmao, so instead there's a shorter and more coherent version of what caught my eye in Jon's chapters even when I was reading for the first time, setting the fundament of what became one of the main reasons why I fell in love with his character in the first place. The main focus here are chapters Jon III and Jon IV.

So, first of all, his visible and impressive development in the span of a couple of chapters is one of the things I love about Jon the most!

He went from this:

If he must be alone, he would make solitude his armor. [...]

He missed his true brothers: little Rickon [...]; Robb [...]; Bran [...].

“You broke my wrist, bastard boy.”

Jon lifted his eyes at the sullen voice. Grenn loomed over him, thick of neck and red of face, with three of his friends behind him. He knew Todder, a short ugly boy with an unpleasant voice. The recruits all called him Toad. The other two were the ones Yoren had brought north with them, Jon remembered, rapers taken down in the Fingers. He’d forgotten their names. He hardly ever spoke to them, if he could help it. They were brutes and bullies, without a thimble of honor between them.

[...]

“I don’t care,” Jon said. “I don’t care about them and I don’t care about you or Thorne or Benjen Stark or any of it. I hate it here. It’s too… it’s cold.”

[...]

“They’re not my brothers,” Jon snapped. “They hate me because I’m better than they are.”

“No. They hate you because you act like you’re better than they are. They look at you and see a castle-bred bastard who thinks he’s a lordling.” The armorer leaned close. “You’re no lordling. Remember that. You’re a Snow, not a Stark. You’re a bastard and a bully.”

“A bully?” Jon almost choked on the word. The accusation was so unjust it took his breath away.

To this:

Others were gathering around and looking at him curiously. Jon noticed Grenn a few feet away. A thick woolen bandage was wrapped around one hand. He looked anxious and uncomfortable, not menacing at all. Jon went to him. Grenn edged backward and put up his hands. “Stay away from me now, you bastard.”

Jon smiled at him. “I’m sorry about your wrist. Robb used the same move on me once, only with a wooden blade. It hurt like seven hells, but yours must be worse. Look, if you want, I can show you how to defend that.”

[...]

Jon was showing Dareon how best to deliver a sidestroke when the new recruit entered the practice yard. “Your feet should be farther apart,” he urged. “You don’t want to lose your balance. That’s good. Now pivot as you deliver the stroke, get all your weight behind the blade.”

Jon is a quick learner, he immediately corrected his behaviour and attitude after one (1) talk with Donal Noye. We have enough of characters who have no idea what self-reflection is, who never entertain the idea they might be wrong, who refuse to accept the fact they're wrong even when they're directly said so and/or proved any other way. Jon, however, is not one of them. Soon after this we're shown that Jon became a part of the group, clearly having a warm relationship with them.

Moreover, he is one of my favourite characters because he is one of those who stands up for those who suffer injustice, one of those who protects the ones that cannot protect themselves, not afraid of challenging authorities above him if need be.

[...] Dressed for battle, the new boy looked like an overcooked sausage about to burst its skin. “Let us hope you are not as inept as you look,” Ser Alliser said. “Halder, see what Ser Piggy can do.”

Jon Snow winced. Halder had been born in a quarry and apprenticed as a stonemason. He was sixteen, tall and muscular, and his blows were as hard as any Jon had ever felt.

[...] “You can hit harder than that,” Thorne taunted. Halder took hold of his longsword with both hands and brought it down so hard the blow split leather, even on the flat. The new boy screeched in pain.

Jon Snow took a step forward. Pyp laid a mailed hand on his arm. “Jon, no,” the small boy whispered with an anxious glance at Ser Alliser Thorne.

[...]

Jon shook off Pyp’s hand. “Halder, enough.”

Halder looked to Ser Alliser.

“The Bastard speaks and the peasants tremble,” the master-at-arms said in that sharp, cold voice of his. “I remind you that I am the master-at-arms here, Lord Snow.”

“Look at him, Halder,” Jon urged, ignoring Thorne as best he could. “There’s no honor in beating a fallen foe. He yielded.” He knelt beside the fat boy.

Halder lowered his sword. “He yielded,” he echoed.

[...]

“Stay behind me,” Jon said to the fat boy. Ser Alliser had often sent two foes against him, but never three. He knew he would likely go to sleep bruised and bloody tonight. He braced himself for the assault.

Suddenly Pyp was beside him. “Three to two will make for better sport,” the small boy said cheerfully. He dropped his visor and slid out his sword. Before Jon could even think to protest, Grenn had stepped up to make a third.

Jon managed to persuade Halder to leave Sam alone in front of Alliser Thorne, and Halder actually listened to him, despite Ser Alliser being right there with all the power over all of them! When Alliser commanded the three recruits to attack Jon alone, he stood his ground and didn't actually expect Pyp and Grenn joining him. Though, they did it anyway, all past quarrels between them forgotten.

Samwell Tarly must have read their thoughts on their faces. His eyes met Jon’s and darted away, quick as frightened animals. “I… I’m sorry,” he said. “I don’t mean to… to be like I am.” He walked heavily toward the armory.

Jon called after him. “You were hurt,” he said. “Tomorrow you’ll do better.”

[...]

[...] Jon took as much pleasure from Pyp’s antics as anyone… yet that night he turned away and went instead to the end of the bench, where Samwell Tarly sat alone, as far from the others as he could get.

[...]

Samwell Tarly looked at him for a long moment, and his round face seemed to cave in on itself. He sat down on the frost-covered ground and began to cry, huge choking sobs that made his whole body shake. Jon Snow could only stand and watch. Like the snowfall on the barrowlands, it seemed the tears would never end.

It was Ghost who knew what to do. Silent as shadow, the pale direwolf moved closer and began to lick the warm tears off Samwell Tarly’s face. The fat boy cried out, startled… and somehow, in a heartbeat, his sobs turned to laughter.

Jon Snow laughed with him. Afterward they sat on the frozen ground, huddled in their cloaks with Ghost between them. Jon told the story of how he and Robb had found the pups newborn in the late summer snows. It seemed a thousand years ago now. Before long he found himself talking of Winterfell.

[...]

The others were still in the common room when Jon returned, alone but for Ghost. “Where have you been?” Pyp asked.

“Talking with Sam,” he said.

“He truly is craven,” said Grenn. “At supper, there were still places on the bench when he got his pie, but he was too scared to come sit with us.”

“The Lord of Ham thinks he’s too good to eat with the likes of us,” suggested Jeren.

“I saw him eat a pork pie,” Toad said, smirking. “Do you think it was a brother?” He began to make oinking noises.

“Stop it!” Jon snapped angrily.

The other boys fell silent, taken aback by his sudden fury. “Listen to me,” Jon said into the quiet, and he told them how it was going to be. Pyp backed him, as he’d known he would, but when Halder spoke up, it was a pleasant surprise. Grenn was anxious at the first, but Jon knew the words to move him. One by one the rest fell in line. Jon persuaded some, cajoled some, shamed the others, made threats where threats were required. At the end they had all agreed… all but Rast.

“You girls do as you please,” Rast said, “but if Thorne sends me against Lady Piggy, I’m going to slice me off a rasher of bacon.” He laughed in Jon’s face and left them there.

Hours later, as the castle slept, three of them paid a call on his cell. Grenn held his arms while Pyp sat on his legs. Jon could hear Rast’s rapid breathing as Ghost leapt onto his chest. The direwolf’s eyes burned red as embers as his teeth nipped lightly at the soft skin of the boy’s throat, just enough to draw blood. “Remember, we know where you sleep,” Jon said softly.

The next morning Jon heard Rast tell Albett and Toad how his razor had slipped while he shaved.

From that day forth, neither Rast nor any of the others would hurt Samwell Tarly. When Ser Alliser matched them against him, they would stand their ground and swat aside his slow, clumsy strokes. If the master-at-arms screamed for an attack, they would dance in and tap Sam lightly on breastplate or helm or leg. Ser Alliser raged and threatened and called them all cravens and women and worse, yet Sam remained unhurt. A few nights later, at Jon’s urging, he joined them for the evening meal, taking a place on the bench beside Halder. It was another fortnight before he found the nerve to join their talk, but in time he was laughing at Pyp’s faces and teasing Grenn with the best of them.

Jon not only had been very kind to Sam, he showed his leadership skills by uniting the recruits around himself, knowing the ways to persuade them to accept his decision and support it, not turning away from such methods as threats, and in the result helped Sam not only to gain safety but also to become a part of the group, something Jon had been struggling with not that long ago.

Again, he went from denying this:

Benjen Stark frowned. “A boy you are, and a boy you’ll remain until Ser Alliser says you are fit to be a man of the Night’s Watch. If you thought your Stark blood would win you easy favors, you were wrong. We put aside our old families when we swear our vows. Your father will always have a place in my heart, but these are my brothers now.” He gestured with his dagger at the men around them, all the hard cold men in black.

To understanding, accepting and embracing:

Fat and awkward and frightened he might be, but Samwell Tarly was no fool. One night he visited Jon in his cell. “I don’t know what you did,” he said, “but I know you did it.” He looked away shyly. “I’ve never had a friend before.”

“We’re not friends,” Jon said. He put a hand on Sam’s broad shoulder. “We’re brothers.”

And so they were, he thought to himself after Sam had taken his leave. Robb and Bran and Rickon were his father’s sons, and he loved them still, yet Jon knew that he had never truly been one of them. Catelyn Stark had seen to that. The grey walls of Winterfell might still haunt his dreams, but Castle Black was his life now, and his brothers were Sam and Grenn and Halder and Pyp and the other cast-outs who wore the black of the Night’s Watch.

“My uncle spoke truly,” he whispered to Ghost. He wondered if he would ever see Benjen Stark again, to tell him.

Thus proving that Jon is more than capable to learn new things, adapt to foreign and even unfriendly circumstances and accept new reality and new people, even if they're very different from what he was used to.

ASOIAF v/s GoT - Part 1: The  Disdain for Vulnerable Heroes

Book to screen adaptations are tricky as it is. Adapting high fantasy is even trickier as visual artistry quite often takes precedence over plot and characterization. It’s difficult to adequately portray complex morality, hard decisions and internal agony. Characters are often simplified and pared down to only a few most visually arresting characteristics (mighty king/queen, unbeatable warrior, mysterious magic person, wise-cracking smartass etc etc etc). Plotlines are reworked to make them non-controversial, consequences are ignored and the more difficult subplots are simply done away with. Such actions are common across adaptations, and GoT is no exception. 

The distancing of the show from the books started becoming significantly observable S5 onwards. At a certain pivotal point, the obvious heroic characters began to get pigeon-holed - the noble (Jon), the badass (Arya) and the conqueror (Dany). Crucial characters like Tyrion and Bran also began to lose all trappings of individual motives to dedicate themselves to a ‘greater cause’. Characters canonically unreliable and/or unfavourable such as Jorah, Sansa and Varys get painted in a far more positive light than they deserve. 

Of course, in Martin’s world the characters are far more layered and conflicted. And thus, to stick to the massively simplified (almost bastardized) show characterizations, D&D quite happily chunked off LARGE plot points essential to the main characters, in effect neutering everything that makes ASOIAF so fascinating to begin with.

Let’s first consider the two most obvious leader-heroes of the saga. Both Jon and Dany start out handicapped and subjugated in their own way, before quickly discovering that they have innate capabilities suppressed by their respective environments. Both of them find a role they are good at and use that role to accomplish something revolutionary. Both of them disregard the dangers posed by proponents of tradition and both of them are brought down or grievously hurt by those resistant to change. However, both of them are young. Both of them struggle with self-worth, purpose and identity. They’re two deeply traumatized young heroes who keep the truths of their hearts to themselves. However, the show begins to distance them from their vulnerability somewhere around the middle of its run. There’s a deliberate choice made to move away from complex characterization and focus only on heroics - whether its raining down fire from atop a dragon, or cleaving through enemies with a sword in hand. And while this makes for arresting and unforgettable visuals, you have to wonder why two such beautifully layered characters had to lose their tender facets to continue being badass heroes. 

Dany

No two ways about it - the show has done an exemplary job of building up Daenerys Targaryen the Queen and Conqueror (Season 8 exists only in the Upside Down). Her fiery nature, her courage and her incredible journey from a prized possession to a radical force commanding the very air around her. But before she earned all her titles, she was Dany - a quiet, observant and highly intelligent child who just just wanted to go home. The house with the red door is instrumental to Dany’s psyche as a person - and never mentioning it, or alluding to it takes away something vital from Dany’s story.

That was when they lived in Braavos, in the big house with the red door. Dany had her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window. After Ser Willem had died, the servants had stolen what little money they had left, and soon after they had been put out of the big house. Dany had cried when the red door closed behind them forever.

All that Daenerys wanted back was the big house with the red door, the lemon tree outside her window, the childhood she had never known.

The red door features prominently in Dany’s thoughts, dreams and visions. To a young Dany, her name is as much a burden and a cage to her as the lack of a name is to Jon. He thirsts for the recognition and dignity of a true name, she dreams of the unfettered lightness of a life without the heavy legacy of her name.

It might sound contradictory, but for all that the show played up the power and near invincibility of the dragons, they skimmed over their ACTUAL importance to Dany’s entire Essos arc, and subsequently her identity. The show posits her as the Dragon Queen almost from the very beginning - whereas in the narrative of the books, it’s a realization she must come to after losing almost everything she’s fought for in Slaver’s Bay.

Remember who you are, Daenerys. The dragons know. Do you?

This line means much more in the context of Dany’s journey of self-realization than the show ever bothered to address. Through her entire arc Dany is struggling to place herself. She’s caught between the ‘Last Targaryen’ - the rightful ruler of Westeros set to take back the Throne stolen from her family by scheming enemies; and the Mother and Queen of the freed slaves of Slaver’s Bay who look to her to destroy a society which has progressed on the strength of broken bones of slaves. Beyond it all she is the Mother of Dragons - which brings all the boys to her yard. Dorne, fAegon, Victarion and Euron don’t give two hoots about the young girl who overturned the age old practice of slavery - they want her dragons. By the time she’s stumbling across the Dothraki Sea delirious, in pain and hallucinating, she knows not which of these three identities is who she truly is.

The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings.

That’s what the show misses. The crux of Daenerys Targaryen isn’t that she HAS dragons, it’s that she IS the dragon. The issue with this interpretation in the show is that to truly take Danerys being the last dragon to it’s intended narrative conclusion, you have to admit that her journey would not, and could not end with her becoming Queen of the 7K. The show turned her magic into a political prop which is entirely incongruous with the world-building elements established by Martin. ASOIAF’s magic doesn’t exist as a plaything and a tool for those desiring power. Magic exists to combat magic. Daenerys Targaryen is a conqueror, a queen and a rescuer but she is also more. (I could go on and on about Dany as the Last Dragon but that would be derailing the intent of this post.)

You are a queen, her bear said. In Westeros. “It is such a long way,” she complained. “I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl.” 

This is not a Dany the show allows us to observe. The Daenerys Targaryen of the show is not allowed to be vulnerable or uncertain or crumble. She’s not allowed to question her purpose and path in the world. After all, how can the most powerful character in the show ever falter? This is where the show takes the easy way out of putting more emphasis on the visual extravaganza - dragons burning down ships and Emilia Clarke walking through flames unscathed are easy crowd pleasers. But these are also just surface level considerations of Dany’s power and importance. She isn’t who she is because she has dragons - she has her dragons because she is who she is. 

But a major point of contention is - who DOES she need to be? See, Dany has always known she’s ‘important’ - in the way political prisoners are important. In the beginning it’s only her family name which holds her value. Her gradual journey from being only symbolically important as a Targaryen, to owning her own narrative as herself is fraught with considerable internal turmoil. The identity Dany cherishes most is that of Mother. Choosing to free the slaves in Astapor and Yunkai is the first decision she takes as a player with power and resources, and this decision has NOTHING to do with her destiny as a Targaryen. You identify a hero by their choices - and it is in this moment, uninfluenced by magic, or a greater power, this young girl sees the horror in a long established custom and CHOOSES to fight it. I would anyway have been invested as Daenerys as a character - but that one action firmly placed her on a pedestal .

In spite of where her destiny may pull her she wants to retain her softer dreams, her yearning for an uncomplicated happiness. At the same time, she’s voluntarily taken on the burden of ruling in Mereen, despite the responsibility very clearly chaining her. At the end of ADWD, her fevered dreams seem to suggest that both her softness and her duty are pulling her away from her true destiny. Dany’s struggles with self revolve around choosing between her identities as the Dragon, the Mother and the Conqueror - I personally subscribe to the belief that Dany ‘finding herself’ would mean realising that her three identities are not separate, but feed into each other to create the Daenerys Targaryen she is meant to be.

The show puts the cart before the horse and ignores the reverberating impact of a piece of Old Valyria being reborn on the shores of the continent where the empire fell. Her trek through the Dothraki Sea once she escapes on Drogon’s back is such a crucial pivot point in her story - it is literally the point where the old Dany is being left behind for who she will ultimately need to become.

And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. "The last dragon," Ser Jorah's voice whispered faintly. "The last, the last." Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.

After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars.

She woke to the taste of ashes.

The show does make it clear that Dany’s ultimate destiny lies in Westeros - but the Iron Throne can hardly be it. Why will the last dragon be so singularly focused on a crumbling monarchy? Unjustly attacked and exiled and now fighting to retake their ‘rightful’ place - that’s a traditional fantasy storyline and in a purely monarchical power struggle needs neither Dany’s magic nor her dragons. The Iron Throne is such a low bar - what Daenerys attempted in Slaver’s Bay is ten times more difficult and impressive. As of this point in the books Mereen is on the brink of absolute chaos and the situation is much, much more convoluted than the show made it out to be. The political uprising of Mereen was dealt with so laughably on the show - ‘Bring dragons, Burn shit’ doesn’t solve any problems whatsoever but let’s save that for the next part.

Painting Dany’s journey back to Westeros as simply an exiled royal returning to take back what’s theirs removed the poignancy in Dany looking for home in Westeros. There’s this sense of yearning in her desperately looking for a place to belong in a country that’s little more than a fable to her. She tried SO hard to make a home with the Dothraki and to find a place as the ruler of Mereen - but if there’s one takeaway from ADWD it’s that Dany’s fate doesn’t rest in Essos. I expect WoW to be a bloody reckoning, an agonizing choice between Dany’s duty and destiny. The new world order she’s established is far too new and fragile to sustain itself. As we see from Cleon’s ascent in Astapor, evil opportunists exists everywhere, regardless of societal class. To cement her order, Dany and her inner circle need to stay in Mereen for a lengthy period of time. But Westeros is calling - she has to choose. It’s nowhere near as easy as the three Yunkish Masters being the only figureheads, the Greyjoy siblings traipsing into the pyramids with the ships she needs, and alliances falling into her lap just so that D&D don’t need to put in any effort into creating plot and can simply throw spectacular CGI at us.

My point is - you don’t need a dragon (or three) to fight Cersei Lannister and a court jester on ADHD masquerading as Euron Greyjoy (not Pilou, its obvious the dude read the books and expected great things from his character). You do however need them to fulfil the prophecy passed down generations of Targaryens, beginning from Aegon the Conqueror. You do need the last living embodiment of the magic of Old Valyria to combat the foul, unholy magic wielded by the utterly terrifying Euron Greyjoy of the books. The reason Aegon began his conquest of Westeros is beyond mere ambition - and if we go by what Martin himself revealed about his intentions, the Others ARE the final War. We had only 2 episodes in S7 to show Daenerys understanding the gravity of the Night King (godawful mission beyond the Wall and polar bear wights aside) - and then arrives the wrecking ball of S8 with its ‘Northern Independence’ and ‘my Iron Throne’.

The trouble with legendary heroes is this - they save the world for everyone else. Dany defeats all other claimants to the Throne and takes back Dragonstone, King’s Landing and the Seven Kingdoms, as Viserys wanted, and she believes her duty to be. She and Jon lead the Last Alliance against the Great Other. Maybe they win and live happily ever after. Maybe they win, but only after losing everything they hold dear. And maybe they win, and only lose part of themselves. Does that end Dany’s story? Is a Kingdom and a reign what she’s been searching for? Dany’s story only ends when she finds herself in front of that red door again. 

Jon 

It’s an infuriating irony that despite portraying him as MUCH softer than in the books, Jon’s vulnerability is either non-existent in the show, or is turned into a weakness. Where does the show ever dwell on his deep seated issues with identity, duty and survivor’s guilt? Where does the show address the raw power of his love for Arya? And why does the show think that the progression of Hardhome, being fucking murdered AND resurrected, and then Rickon’s death in front of his eyes would NOT leave a lasting mental impact?

To its’ credit, the show did clearly indicate Catelyn’s hatred for Jon. What we didn’t see, and thus don’t have a ready reference for (in the show) is how Catelyn’s treatment affected Jon. In the books though, you can clearly suss out the emotional impact of the years of Jon’s childhood.

He reached the landing and stood for a long moment, afraid. Ghost nuzzled at his hand. He took courage from that. He straightened, and entered the room. 

He stood in the door for a moment, afraid to speak, afraid to come closer. The window was open. Below, a wolf howled. Ghost heard and lifted his head. 

This is at Bran’s bedside when he’s still deep in a coma, with no certainty of whether he will ever wake again. Jon’s leaving for the NW, and this may very well be the last time he ever sees Bran again. Jon loves his little brother with everything he has, yet the overbearing emotion at this moment is his fear of Catelyn Stark.

Keep in mind that every POV hides something or the other from the reader. Thoughts and feelings may seem disjointed as a critical memory which aligns the two is missing. In this case, Jon is actively NOT thinking of any particular incident. Yet his fear is all pervasive. It’s an uncovered wound and it hurts him. We may not know exactly what has happened between Jon and Catelyn in the 14 years leading up to this moment, but Jon’s fear of her is very real. This almost paralyzing fear of Catelyn placed against the overbearing love he feels for Bran at this moment makes this exchange stand out for several reasons, chief amongst which is that Catelyn has left an indelible mark on Jon’s psyche. 

Robb and Bran and Rickon were his father’s sons, and he loved them still, yet Jon knew that he had never truly been one of them. Catelyn Stark had seen to that. 

By the time the moon was full again, he would be back in Winterfell with his brothers. Your half-brothers, a voice inside reminded him. And Lady Stark, who will not welcome you. There was no place for him in Winterfell, no place in King’s Landing either. 

The fear lessens once he leaves the halls of Winterfell, and bitterness takes its place. Jon’s feelings about her are tinged with fury and resentment. He’s long past hoping for affection from her, but what still rankles and will never stop being a source of anger, is that she deliberately tried to sabotage his relationships with others who most definitely were his family. 

Jon’s thoughts make it obvious that he is painfully aware that he doesn’t belong. For an awareness this heavy to be so deeply etched into a young boy’s entire being, the message has to have been reinforced intensely over the entire duration of his life in Winterfell. That’s not compatible with the assumption that Catelyn was only cold and dismissive of him. We don’t see the instances in either Jon’s or Catelyn’s viewpoints in the books, but the inference is all but thrown at us. 

Jon’s growth as a person, a leader and a revolutionary is dependent on his time with the NW just as much as his time with the FF. The show cut out far too many important aspects of his time with the FF, but atleast that part of his journey was treated with more respect than his accomplishments as a man of the NW. (Let me not start on the absolute blasphemy to turn one of the most decisive characters in the entire saga into a dithering, uncertain, meek fool in S8.)

Unlike Dany, Jon has never been important. He has no name, no legacy to uphold, no shoes to step into. All he has are his natural abilities - his startlingly accurate powers of perception for someone so young, his capacity for taking feedback to change for the better and his razor sharp practical intelligence. The text seems to suggest that Jon was indirectly forced to downplay his abilities due to his status - besting Robb was just not done.

With her deep blue eyes and hard cold mouth, she looked a bit like Stannis. Iron, he thought, but brittle. She was looking at him the way she used to look at him at Winterfell, whenever he had bested Robb at swords or sums or most anything. Who are you? that look had always seemed to say. This is not your place. Why are you here? 

It’s at the Night’s Watch that Jon first starts to become someone more than Ned Stark’s bastard - in his OWN estimation. The world will continue to see only a bastard and Ned Stark’s shame, but its here that Jon learns to accept and move beyond it. It’s in the yard of the NW training yard that Jon receives his first harsh lesson about himself - he’s lording the privilege of his castle education over boys far less fortunate than him. It’s at the NW that he has the opportunity to use his abilities. It’s here that Jon finds his calling as the champion of the misfits, the ill-begotten, the unwanted and the reviled. He becomes the de-facto trainer of the boys Alliser Thorne deems beneath his dignity. He’s the one convincing Maester Aemon of Sam’s worth as his squire. And it’s at the NW that Jon first begins forming his opinion of the wars of the south - something which he will carry till the end. 

When dead men come hunting in the night, do you think it matters who sits the Iron Throne?

The staggering impact of his experience in the NW to his character is an essay in itself. For the purposes of this post, suffice to say that without the NW Jon would never have grown to the position to have an impact on the greater story. As of ADWD, the Wall under Jon’s leadership has become somewhat of a rallying ground - hosting a King, a highborn Northern lady looking for deliverance and support, as well as the center for revitalizing the Watch, rebuilding the Wall and rekindling hope in the North.

At some point after his resurrection in the show, Jon’s portrayal starts edging over into the ‘noble, sacrificial hero’ archetype. This wouldn’t necessarily have been a BAD thing – if this ‘goodness’ and ‘nobility’ didn’t come at the expense of Jon’s overall characterization.

His ‘goodness’ comes in the form of forgiving Sansa for keeping the Vale army secret and keeping her as his closest confidant. This so-called goodness of heart is rank naivete the sharply perceptive and observant book!Jon would have been stupefied at. Jon knows to judge people by their actions – and Sansa’s actions made it obvious that she’s playing her own game and considers her brothers’ lives expendable collateral. The Jon who understood the heaviness of the mantle of leadership well enough to cultivate distance from even his closest friends in the NW would NEVER have allowed Sansa so close.

The ‘honourable’ show!Jon allows his Lords and his sister to question and challenge him openly. The ‘noble’ King Jon has to explain himself before undertaking a journey to gain a potential ally - the only possible ally against a War the North seems unwilling to believe despite the reports of the dead having been around since S1. The honest son of Ned Stark cannot lie to his House’s greatest living enemy. Lord Commander Jon would sooner have jumped off from the top of the Wall than take these decisions. He’s aware of the nature of power and authority, and that more than holding a position its important to make those around you believe you hold power. Power can do great good - but it is also fickle. 

Despite the NK and the AoTD being turned into a cosmic farce in the last season, the show did quite a good job of building up the horror, menace and sense of doom in the previous seasons. Hardhome is prime example of why the show was once the pinnacle of television – and what Jon saw there, coupled with the utter failure of his mission to evacuate all the FF would have pushed Jon to the brink of insanity anyway. From what we know of Jon, he carries the deaths of his father, Robb, Bran, Rickon and Winterfell close to him. Compound the steadily growing pressure of that loss with the fact that he loses Grenn, Pyp and Ygritte in the same night. Three of the people most important to Jon but a loss he was never given the time to process as Stannis’s army arrives the very next day. He’s still carrying this heaviness when Hardhome happens, and Jon is exactly the kind of man to blame himself for the people he was unable to evacuate. Not to mention, this is the first time he sees the Night King RAISE the dead – this is the point where the true power of the enemy is fully revealed. That was existential horror at its most visceral and not a sight a man is likely to forget, least of all a man who’s trying his best to create the only resistance.

Let’s forego the changed circumstances of Jon’s murder in the show and consider the act as is – Jon does the right thing, knows he’s doing the right thing and is betrayed and murdered for it. He’s dead and then he’s not and while he’s still struggling with resurrection, betrayal and the memories of Hardhome, Sansa arrives and he’s in the middle of the quest to retake Winterfell. It’s traumatic experience upon traumatic experience, a never-ending series of emotional turmoil with no outlet or time to grieve. This is the only reason I see Jon’s actions at the Battle of Bastards being true to his mental condition in the show – having Rickon die right in front of him when his little brother was pretty much the only reason he was able to gather the mental strength for the campaign would have unhinged him to the point of that ridiculously suicidal move.

But see that’s the last time we see any strong emotion from Jon. He seemed mentally and emotionally exhausted in the Winds of Winter episode, and that’s understandable but only at THAT point. That kind of exhaustion sets in only once you’re done with your battles and Jon’s true battle was just beginning. It’s just never acknowledged – when in truth he would barely have a handle on his temper and would be obsessed with the NK to the point of delirium. We apparently can’t have a functional main hero with his emotions all over the place, gathering the strength to do what must be done while falling apart inside. Or if we DO show him as someone struggling with himself, it’s to paint him as someone too weak to see the truth. Someone too blinded by love who should never have been in charge in the first place. 

Heroes are strong, brave, just and honourable. They are powerful and commanding and inspiring. And at the very core of it all, heroes are human. Wish the show had remembered that.

Do you have any criticism on the bloat flat filler soap opera that was AFFC/ADWD?

Well, AFFC is actually my favorite book in the series for Sansa, Brienne, Cersei, and Arya’s POVs being the most enjoyable and interesting. The character work in this book is really strong overall. The prologue and epilogue with a FM infiltrating the Citadel are just so juicy and exciting to see what happens with that. I don’t consider this book filler at all, but a natural and necessary breather in the aftermath of the WOT5K before we pivot toward the real war. I don’t really have any criticisms for this one.

This is something other people have said about ADWD, which I agree with. Parts of Dance are a real slog to get through, but I don’t consider needing time and space to meticulously develop a plot this big and complicated to be unnecessary filler. I’d only be pissed if there was a weak payoff to it in TWOW, which I’m not really worried about. Dany’s POV, who is great to read in her own right, suffers from a somewhat less interesting supporting cast of characters if you compare it with the Westerosi POVs. The Varamyr prologue is really gripping and it doubles as an info dump for some things about warging that should pay off big time when it comes to Jon and/or Bran’s POVs. And holy shit! The assassinations of Pycelle and Kevan Lannister by Varys and his little birds should have enormous consequences in KL. Asha and Arianne are really cool and enjoyable to read, but Areo Hotah kinda sucks. Tyrion and Theon’s chapters can be really heavy and dark with few if any rays of light, so that can really be an endurance test for the ole palate. The plot at the Wall between Jon, Stannis, Melissandre, Val, Mance, and Tormund is probably the most exciting to read. The wedding of Sigorn and Alys Karstark stands out as one of the most beautifully written and memorable moments of the entire series. 

It’s not a disappointment as a book for me, but most of it isn’t going to appeal to a casual reader that might prefer a tighter, more concise plot, more action scenes, and a narrower focus on a smaller, well-defined cast of characters. Feast/Dance seems to have more of the repeat, deep-diving reader in mind who has patience for minutiae. Neither is good or bad, it’s just what you’re into and what satisfies.     

u know a thing i really do love about jaime’s arc is that what he wants to even achieve is actually interrogated pretty thoroughly in affc. like it is very much about grueling internal development rather than a simple linear trajectory. the thing with a lot of reformation arcs (george’s words: link) and characters who seek their “honor” back is that it is often dealt with in a pretty straightforward way. how people even define goodness and the nuances of morality and altruism and how self concept is tied to how you are perceived by others and certain flawed moral constructs, in medieval fantasy especially, is often not really that focused on. jaime as a character already has such a multifaceted relationship with it all, it is a core part of his story: “honor” in asoiaf exists within a system and it is full of contradictions. moral constructs are also very much rooted in an ultimately feudalistic structure. and when you throw “glory”, within feudalistic constructs of chivalry & heroism, into the mix, and the complications of external perception and how you want to change, it all gets a lot more difficult. his character already deals with that in his origin, it is at the root of his disillusionment and fall into cynicism and darkness. and he is then forced to grapple more with change and what being better even really means after “whatever he chose…”. a lot of these types of stories tend to skim over this part when dealing with reformation. like i do think george delineates how “change” is restricted by external and internal factors in a plethora of ways that have to actually be addressed during an arc like this. there is a theme with jaime of it being impossible to compromise with certain things: he has to eventually choose between them. cost and sacrifice is examined a whole lot. even if he is arguably pretty passively suicidal he is not at a stage in affc where he necessarily lost everything, though he is beginning to. he has status, power, and a role to play, his family is in severe danger, he has certain selfish desires, he has ties, loved ones, people he feels the need and responsibility to protect. which puts him in a position that makes his choices a whole lot more complicated. the “so many vows” are still there. i also like that he is navigating change from a point where he still has the option not to (at least externally, i think internally he is at a point of no return, like he would not be able to stomach himself because he did lose what had allowed him to easily compartmentalize, other than being faced with the example that brienne provides that contradicts & condemns his entire cynical outlook he used to justify himself, and he expresses his readiness to die, like when he plans to be the first on the field if he “has” to attack riverrun, and believes he will be the first to fall too because of his hand. but again, the resolution of the whole fiasco makes the choice to reform something primarily internally motivated as he actually dooms his image entirely through his method of utilizing the persona he wants to change to its fullest potential with the trebuchet & edmure, and that he is very much stuck in the middle of things that are intrinsically incompatible. the lannister regime and tywin’s legacy is incompatible with becoming a better person. he is also repeatedly faced with the fact that change and trying to achieve things he set out to do will not come with external rewards, like being viewed differently by other people, that he is very desperate for to make it easier to not despise himself anymore. jaime does want to feel better about himself, but true redemption comes with real sacrifice. he does not see a golden hand anymore in his final dream in affc, just the ugliness of the stump. he contradicts tywin’s dogma, abandons his position, and goes with brienne at the end of the adwd chapter all the same. personally, i am seeing a clear set up, especially that he is now about to be confronted by the woman who embodies most of his greatest sins.

Something rubbed against his leg beneath the table. Jon saw red eyes staring up at him. “Hungry again?” he asked. There was still half a honeyed chicken in the center of the table. Jon reached out to tear off a leg, then had a better idea. He knifed the bird whole and let the carcass slide to the floor between his legs. Ghost ripped into it in savage silence. His brothers and sisters had not been permitted to bring their wolves to the banquet, but there were more curs than Jon could count at this end of the hall, and no one had said a word about his pup. He told himself he was fortunate in that too. His eyes stung. Jon rubbed at them savagely, cursing the smoke. He swallowed another gulp of wine and watched his direwolf devour the chicken. Dogs moved between the tables, trailing after the serving girls. One of them, a black mongrel bitch with long yellow eyes, caught a scent of the chicken. She stopped and edged under the bench to get a share. Jon watched the confrontation. The bitch growled low in her throat and moved closer. Ghost looked up, silent, and fixed the dog with those hot red eyes. The bitch snapped an angry challenge. She was three times the size of the direwolf pup. Ghost did not move. He stood over his prize and opened his mouth, baring his fangs. The bitch tensed, barked again, then thought better of this fight. She turned and slunk away, with one last defiant snap to save her pride. Ghost went back to his meal. Jon grinned and reached under the table to ruffle the shaggy white fur. The direwolf looked up at him, nipped gently at his hand, then went back to eating.

Jon I, AGOT

It's interesting that GRRM would dedicate several paragraphs to a seemingly unimportant exchange between a boy, his wolf, and an unfriendly third party. But there's just something about this passage that has continued to nag at me for years since I first read it because, considering how heavy handed GRRM was with the foreshadowing in AGOT, this feels important.

Jon is sitting at table full of squires - aka would be knights. We don't really know who they are or what families they belong to, but it's safe to assume that they come from a certain level of privilege; this is considering the fact that it cannot be financially easy to be a squire. And these boys already have a slew of tales detailing all their previous knightly exploits regarding "battle and bedding and the hunt" which suggests that they have some capital. So you have boys who will soon be men. And they will, presumably, become men of some power.

These lads eat their fill of the chicken until only half remains, which Jon then gives to Ghost. The direwolf's name is not so important here but what he represents is. Throughout the series, we're told that Ghost is reminiscent of the weirwood trees (because of his red eyes and white fur). He's stated to be of and from the Old Gods and since he's a personification of the weirwoods, he might as well be one of them. It's almost as if Jon is presenting whatever is left on the table to the Old Gods (Ghost). He lets them devour his offerings while he silently watches. And the motif of watching is so interesting here because it's kind of like Jon takes on a stewardship role - to watch over land/people/etc. He oversees Ghost eating the chicken, so he's overseeing whatever has been given to the Old Gods. This is not new imagery to his arc. As a brother of the Night's Watch and eventually its leader, we have several instances where he leads people to adopting the Old Gods in some fashion. In ADWD, several recruits swear their vows to the Old Gods while he watches on as their Lord Commander. The Old Gods are also primarily of the North and we're told that Jon has more of the north in him than his brothers; interesting that this also includes Bran. So perhaps whatever is being offered to the Old Gods relates to the North.

We must also note that Jon initially thinks to give only a small portion, a leg, before pivoting and providing the entire thing. It feels to me a bit like the process of carving up a kingdom or something similar. The lords (represented by the squires) take what they want and leave aside what they don't; or perhaps they have eaten to their fill and can take no more. Then when his time comes, Jon first considers a small piece of land/group of people before eventually absorbing all of whatever is left behind. The concept of carving up a kingdom rings harder considering that we have several callbacks to the ideals of kingship in this chapter. Robert, Jaime, Tyrion, and even Mance though we don't know it yet, all play into this. And then there's the aspect of Jon letting the chicken slip between his legs which evokes birth/fatherhood, a very curious choice when GRRM could've just had Jon place the chicken on the floor. So land/people are carved up and Jon then uses whatever is left to birth his own type of kingdom. And this kingdom is one for the Old Gods.

This also touches on something that has been quite prevalent throughout Jon's arc. It's the concept of accepting the "others" or "those left over" who live apart from the accepted social norms. Arya (a tomboy), Sam (a gender non-confirming boy), the Night's Watch (criminals, extra sons, and men who have no future left or place to go), and even the wildlings are all examples of this. And Jon takes on a leadership/paternal role to every single one of them. He looks after them as a leader would/should. Sometimes, in the case of Arya and the wildlings, he's equated to a king. He's a steward/shepherd/king. There's messianic undertones to this:

Come unto me, all you who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-30).

If you're familiar with Judeo-Christian tradition, you'll know that Jesus is often personified as one who spent the majority his time among the outcasts. The idea is that he came to save them too and that anew kingdom (or new earth depending on your translation) would spring up after the end of the world where he would forever rule as king; which presents the idea of a final king after the earthly ones are done away with. Now GRRM isn't so heavy handed with Christian allusions as other authors out there, but he does have a Catholic background and Jon is so overtly a Jesus figure. And in Revelation, Jesus is king and god at the very end....

One last thing: the mention of the mongrel who challenges Jon has always been rather interesting but confusing to me. A mongrel doesn't really relate to one specific type of dog. But it's interesting that Jon notes several roaming about where he is. They follow the serving girls who carry the food to be offered. Mongrels are used to describe antagonist/villainous groups in ASOIAF. Sometimes, they're used to describe slavers in Essos. But what's interesting is that most of the time, they're used to describe Euron's Ironborn especially in Victorian's POV. So I don't think the mongrel who challenges Ghost is a supernatural threat of death (i.e., the Others) but rather a human one. They represent those who are called to the scene once the lords have finished playing their games. It almost feels like a feast for (carrion) crows....

But it doesn't really matter because this mongrel isn't much of a challenge for Ghost. Though the mongrel is much larger, the direwolf is able to fend her off very effortlessly. Given that "mongrel" is used to describe Ironborn raiders, could this exchange between Ghost and the mongrel point to reavers or sea raiders who rise and fail challenge Jon kingdom? There is a historical King Jon Stark who did this....

When sea raiders landed in the east, Jon drove them out and built a castle, the Wolf's Den, at the mouth of the White Knife, so as to be able to defend the mouth of the river.[1][2] His son, Rickard, followed him on the throne and annexed the Neck to the north.

ref.

So this might shed some light not only on Jon's already published arc, but also on what we can expect in the future. We have some foreshadowing through Jon's ADWD dream that he will not only rise with the dawn (thereby live through the Long Night), but will be in a position to lead people (wildings in that chapter) to a new peace after a hard fought war. Also remember that the wildlings, rather enthusiastically, swear oaths to him as if swearing oaths to their king. In this instance, the supernatural (a dream of the war for the dawn) is followed by the natural/human. So perhaps this particular passage (and Jon's dream) can be used to predict that Jon comes out on top, and quite effortlessly too, as a leader. And he becomes a leader who rules by association with the Old Gods; or rules a kingdom for them.

To end, I think it's of note that this passage immediately precedes Jon's conversation with Benjen where he voices his desire to go out on his own - the hero's call to action. This is the adventure that's going to kickstart his growth as a man, warrior and most importantly, a leader. So it looks like before we even began, GRRM telegraphed how it would all end in just three short paragraphs.

" Love is the bane of honor, the death of duty. What is honor compared to a woman's love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms ... or the memory of a brother's smile? Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy." - Maester Aemon

This must be one of the most overused quotes both in fandom and on the show to justify or theorize on Jon’s actions.

Before season 8,  ‘Love is the death of duty’ was used in some ridiculously stupid theories that include Jon not bothering to fight ice zombies and instead rushing to save his true love Sansa from evil Dany or sexually manipulating Dany for his true love Sansa and so on. On the show, they used it to justify Jon having to kill Dany since as per Tyrion, duty is the death of love.  

Here’s the thing these folks don’t seem to get. This is a plot point that’s already been resolved with Jon over the first 5 books.

This quote basically served two purposes. One was the hint of Ned’s big secret - sacrificing his honor for Lyanna and baby Jon.

The second was Maester Aemon trying to explain to Jon about why the NW brothers are not allowed to marry and have family because of the conflicts that would arise between brothers in the NW. And he does this to make Jon understand why he cannot run away to help his father and brother like he wants to do. Jon does run away and is brought back by his friends and forgiven by LC Mormont and Jon accepts that his place is at the wall.

Forgive me, Father. Robb, Arya, Bran... forgive me, I cannot help you. He has the truth of it. This is my place. "I am... yours, my lord. Your man. I swear it. I will not run again” - Jon, AGOT

Here Jon chooses duty over love. As we see over the next 4 books, he does so again and again. Conflicted between helping family and friends as he keeps getting bad news, he chooses duty time and again. The human heart in conflict with itself. He gives up Ygritte to help the watch and she ends up dying.

She just smiled at that. "D'you remember that cave? We should have stayed in that cave. I told you so."

“We'll go back to the cave," he said. "You're not going to die, Ygritte. You're not."

“Oh." Ygritte cupped his cheek with her hand. "You know nothing, Jon Snow," she sighed, dying. - Jon VII ASOS

Jon has already chosen duty over his lover.

And finally we get to book 5 where fArya is now in Ramsay’s hands and Jon is mentally tortured the whole of ADwD at the idea of his little sister with Ramsay. And then he reads this:

I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … "I think we had best change the plan," Jon Snow said. ADWD - Jon XIII

This is the pivotal moment when Jon Snow finally says fuck this shit, to hell with all this duty nonsense and decides to lead an army of wildlings south of the wall to attack Ramsay - which leads to mutiny, assassination, wildlings and crows probably fighting and destroying each other in the next book and the end of the NW as a neutral institution of the realm.

And that’s the conclusion of this ‘Love or duty’ plot for Jon. He ended up choosing love over duty and paid the ultimate price.

Ironically,  Jon has this in common with the woman he despised - Catelyn Stark. Like Cat basically destroying Robb’s campaign by releasing Jaime for her daughters freedom, Jon’s mission to save Arya undermined and destroyed the NW as an institution.

Show Jon on the other hand is perennially stuck in ‘duty over love’ mode. Because this is GOT, and characters never grow or change or learn from their experiences or make different choices. They just keep doing the same things again and again. Because according to D&D this is the entertaining story telling that ‘mothers and NFL players’ want. 

So show Jon once again makes his weary trudge to Dany and once again chooses duty over love.

I don’t know if Jon is going to be killing Dany in the books or if she is going to die some other way. All I am pretty damn sure of is that whatever happens it’s NOT going to be about all this duty or love stuff. Because that shit’s done with in the books with respect to Jon and retreading old ground is just going to make for repetitive reading.

As of the last book, Jon Snow has made that choice and he chose the person he loves most in the world - Arya - over his duty to protect the realm.

1 So, based on your latest posts, and because you take the time to explore things that have been on my mind lately: 1 Jon-Sansa reunion is foreshadowed in Jamie-Cersei meeting at the Sept over dead Tywin and Jamie's dream of his mother. 2. T-S wedding not annulled, T will press his claim. Horrible suspicion: Sansa forgot her bedding and her PoV is completely blurred. Her next PoV is when she escapes and she thinks she should tell T about her moodblood!

2 T never once denies that he bedded her. He thinks "I am not bedded" once but that's because he wants to be chosen and S doesn't want him. He did what Tywin wanted "bed her once". He'll probably press his claim to WF based on that. In Catelyn's chapter Robb says he'll take his head off for what he did. This foreshadow comes also in Ts chapters in ADWD. Please explore Ts chapters more! Nice catch the whore-wife thing! 

Oh hi, anon!

OMG, you make an excellent point! I think that GRRM planned something quite like this with the 5-year-gap he ended up having to scrap. Now it makes sense! I’ll put in some quotes below that show the hints.

It might still happen now. Obviously, not involving the actual wedding night, but as a “completely blurred” experience that involves Sansa (and probably Tyrion) at a point in the future. A point where Tyrion doesn’t care about being nice anymore. But for now, let’s look at what might have been.

Here’s where the hints come in after their wedding in ASOS:

For their wedding night, they had been granted the use of an airy bedchamber high in the Tower of the Hand. Tyrion kicked the door shut behind them. “There is a flagon of good Arbor gold on the sideboard, Sansa. Will you be so kind as to pour me a cup?” “Is that wise, my lord?” “Nothing was ever wiser. I am not truly drunk, you see. But I mean to be.” Sansa filled a goblet for each of them. It will be easier if I am drunk as well. She sat on the edge of the great curtained bed and drained half her cup in three long swallows. No doubt it was very fine wine, but she was too nervous to taste it. It made her head swim.

They both drink a wine that Tyrion has provided for them. Arbor Gold, he says. A different chapter with Shae suggests something else.

“We should go back,” he said reluctantly. “It must be near dawn. Sansa will be waking.” “You should give her dreamwine,” Shae said, “like Lady Tanda does with Lollys. A cup before she goes to sleep, and we could fuck in bed beside her without her waking.” She giggled. “Maybe we should, some night. Would m’lord like that?” Her hand found his shoulder, and began to knead the muscles there. “Your neck is hard as stone. What troubles you?” 

Tyrion could not see his fingers in front of his face, but he ticked his woes off on them all the same. “My wife. (…) He had come to his last finger. “The face that stares back out of the water when I wash.”(ASOS, Tyrion)

She mentions the dreamwine and he gets tense as a stone, the thought of his wife troubles him and he can’t stand the look of his own face. Hmmm… (That last one is also a Tysha hint, but I digress.)

The pivotal moment at the wedding night:

She climbed onto the featherbed, conscious of his stare. A scented beeswax candle burned on the bedside table and rose petals had been strewn between the sheets. She had started to pull up a blanket to cover herself when she heard him say, “No.” 

The cold made her shiver, but she obeyed. Her eyes closed, and she waited. After a moment she heard the sound of her husband pulling off his boots, and the rustle of clothing as he undressed himself. When he hopped up on the bed and put his hand on her breast, Sansa could not help but shudder. She lay with her eyes closed, every muscle tense, dreading what might come next. Would he touch her again? Kiss her? Should she open her legs for him now? She did not know what was expected of her.

“Sansa.” The hand was gone. “Open your eyes.” She had promised to obey; she opened her eyes. He was sitting by her feet, naked. Where his legs joined, his man’s staff poked up stiff and hard from a thicket of coarse yellow hair, but it was the only thing about him that was straight. “My lady,” Tyrion said, “you are lovely, make no mistake, but … I cannot do this. My father be damned. We will wait. The turn of a moon, a year, a season, however long it takes. Until you have come to know me better, and perhaps to trust me a little.” His smile might have been meant to be reassuring, but without a nose it only made him look more grotesque and sinister. (ASOS, Sansa)

This feels rewritten, doesn’t it? The sudden break, the sudden reprieve. It could just be Tyrion’s creeping conscience making him change his mind. Or it could be Sansa’s mind rewriting the moment. As the series stands now, it can be both. But this issue between them is so heavily referenced that it will have to come up again in the future, one way or the other. It was always meant to be important.

This is at the end of the wedding night chapter:

“On my honor as a Lannister,” the Imp said, “I will not touch you until you want me to.” It took all the courage that was in her to look in those mismatched eyes and say, “And if I never want you to, my lord?” His mouth jerked as if she had slapped him. “Never?” Her neck was so tight she could scarcely nod.  “Why,” he said, “that is why the gods made whores for imps like me.” He closed his short blunt fingers into a fist, and climbed down off the bed. (ASOS, Sansa)

That’s some violent imagery for a kindly refusal to rape her, isn’t it? We all know what Lannister honor is worth (a bucket of…) and we see that Tyrion does feel entitled to her, or he wouldn’t react with dismay at her suggestion that she may never want him. 

The chapter is followed by an Arya chapter describing Stoney Sept, the Battle of the Bells, and this comes up quickly:

More recent battles had been fought here as well, Arya thought from the look of the place. The town gates were made of raw new wood; outside the walls a pile of charred planks remained to tell what had happened to the old ones.

(…)

“When the westermen came through they raped the Huntsman’s wife and sister, put his crops to the torch, ate half his sheep, and killed the other half for spite. Killed six dogs too, and threw the carcasses down his well. A chewed-up corpse would be plenty good enough for him, I’d say. Me as well.” (ASOS, Arya)

 Tyrion used that ugly “smash your portcullis” metaphor just in the chapter before. That’s not subtle.

Let’s look at two angles at Sansa’s POV, keeping in mind the dreamwine. One of the biggest hints that something bad happened (or will happen) to Sansa is in a TWOW sample chapter, “Mercy”. Arya will be “raped” by a dwarf on stage, in a play that’s about the Purple Wedding. Mercy is likely to play Sansa’s character.

She had fastened the shutters back so the morning sun might wake her. But there was no sun outside the window of Mercy's little room, only a wall of shifting grey fog. The air had grown chilly... and a good thing, else she might have slept all day. It would be just like Mercy to sleep through her own rape. Gooseprickles covered her legs. Her coverlet had twisted around her like a snake. She unwound it, threw the blanket to the bare plank floor and padded naked to the window. Braavos was lost in fog. (TWOW, Mercy)

The Tyrion chapter with Shae and the dreamwine is followed directly by a Sansa chapter that opens thusly:

That was such a sweet dream, Sansa thought drowsily. She had been back in Winterfell, running through the godswood with her Lady. Her father had been there, and her brothers, all of them warm and safe. If only dreaming could make it so … 

She threw back the coverlets. I must be brave. Her torments would soon be ended, one way or the other. If Lady was here, I would not be afraid. Lady was dead, though; Robb, Bran, Rickon, Arya, her father, her mother, even Septa Mordane. All of them are dead but me. She was alone in the world now.

Her lord husband was not beside her, but she was used to that. (ASOS, Sansa)

If only dreaming could make everyone safe and warm.

So, why would this have happened? Because Jesus-Jon Snow Needs a Virgin Mother Mary Magdalene.

Like many other female characters, Sansa is surrounded by biblical Mary imagery. “Lys”, in fact, is French for “lily”, the virginal flower that represents the Virgin Mary and, as a city name in Essos, the den of high-end prostitutes. Look for “lys”, it’s everywhere. Madonna-Whore is one of the biggest themes in the books, right next to the light and dark messiah represented by Dany and Jon. Sansa is currently still heavy on the “Maiden” aspect, but that was going to change. But with a twist. Mary is, after all, a virgin mother. 

A woman who doesn’t remember having been raped is still a virgin, yes?

Starting in Sansa’s “sweet dream” chapter, we get a barrage of pregnancy and bastard allusions all through Sansa’s arrival at the Fingers, along with lots of food symbolism. She has a fluttery “tummy”, she can’t eat. After her Escape, she arrives by ship nauseated and is offered fruit by Littlefinger. She rejects the pomegranate, i.e. marriage to Hades, she rejects the blood orange, i.e. wrathful revenge, but she chooses the pear, i.e. the virgin Mary AND child. 

So, Virgin Mary and the bastard child. Or, as the world would call her: the whore. 

More hints with Lysa:

As Sansa stepped back, Lady Lysa caught her wrist. “Now tell me,” she said sharply. “Are you with child? The truth now, I will know if you lie.” “No,” she said, startled by the question. “You are a woman flowered, are you not?” “Yes.” Sansa knew the truth of her flowering could not be long hidden in the Eyrie. “Tyrion didn’t … he never …” She could feel the blush creeping up her cheeks. “I am still a maid.” “Was the dwarf incapable?” “No. He was only … he was …” Kind? She could not say that, not here, not to this aunt who hated him so. “He … he had whores, my lady. He told me so.”

So Tyrion “had” a whore. And Sansa has repressed the memory, making her a maiden in her own mind. But a maiden with child. 

Littlefinger would have loved it, apparently.

I always anticipated that she would beggar the realm and destroy herself, but I never expected she would do it quite so fast. It is quite vexing. I had hoped to have four or five quiet years to plant some seeds and allow some fruits to ripen, but now … it is a good thing that I thrive on chaos. (AFFC, Alayne)

Thanks for the self-insert, GRRM.

There are plenty of allusions in all the chapters to rape, protective walls (around people’s hearts) and Jon, in particular, climbing walls, pregnancy, childbirth, Trauma, etc etc etc.

Tyrion’s first chapter after their wedding opens like this:

Nothing remained beyond the King’s Gate but mud and ashes and bits of burned bone, yet already there were people living in the shadow of the city walls, and others selling fish from barrows and barrels. (ASOS, Tyrion)

To make it short: “Wall” is a code for Sansa. There are people living in the shadow of the wall after a gate was destroyed. Hmm.

His marriage was a daily agony. Sansa Stark remained a maiden, and half the castle seemed to know it. When they had saddled up this morning, he’d heard two of the stableboys sniggering behind his back. He could almost imagine that the horses were sniggering as well. He’d risked his skin to avoid the bedding ritual, hoping to preserve the privacy of his bedchamber, but that hope had been dashed quick enough. Either Sansa had been stupid enough to confide in one of her bedmaids, every one of whom was a spy for Cersei, or Varys and his little birds were to blame. (ASOS, Tyrion)

This is the only snag in the theory. Tyrion corroborates Sansa’s version of events. Or so it seems. Maybe Tyrion also misremembers. Which fits with his Tysha repression. There not being a “bloody sheet” is a mystery, though, for another day. There’s a Tyrion scene with Shae in AGOT or ACOK where he, ahem, barely manages to “storm the castle” before he finishes. It may have played like that. If it did. We don’t know. 

It doesn’t matter now. But anyway.

Another hint when Catelyn arrives at the Twins for the Red Wedding, describing Lord Walder Frey:

His chair was black oak, its back carved into the semblance of two stout towers joined by an arched bridge, so massive that its embrace turned the old man into a grotesque child. There was something of the vulture about Lord Walder, and rather more of the weasel. His bald head, spotted with age, thrust out from his scrawny shoulders on a long pink neck. Loose skin dangled beneath his receding chin, his eyes were runny and clouded, and his toothless mouth moved constantly, sucking at the empty air as a babe sucks at his mother’s breast. (ASOS, Catelyn)

My suspicion on what would have eventually happened to that bastard:

What does he want me to say? “That is good to know, my lord.” He wanted something from her, but Sansa did not know what it was. He looks like a starving child, but I have no food to give him. Why won’t he leave me be? Tyrion rubbed at his scarred, scabby nose yet again, an ugly habit that drew the eye to his ugly face. “You have never asked me how Robb died, or your lady mother.” “I … would sooner not know. It would give me bad dreams.” “Then I will say no more.” “That … that’s kind of you.” “Oh, yes,” said Tyrion. “I am the very soul of kindness. And I know about bad dreams.” (ASOS, Sansa)

Children starving in the winter is something we heard from Old Nan.

“The Others,” Old Nan agreed. “Thousands and thousands of years ago, a winter fell that was cold and hard and endless beyond all memory of man. There came a night that lasted a generation, and kings shivered and died in their castles even as the swineherds in their hovels. Women smothered their children rather than see them starve, and cried, and felt their tears freeze on their cheeks.” Her voice and her needles fell silent, and she glanced up at Bran with pale, filmy eyes and asked, “So, child. This is the sort of story you like?”

I’m not sure if this would have happened, but there is plenty of precedence of decent young mothers suffering horribly: Helaena Targaryen, Elia Martell, countless unnamed civilians, even Gilly and her two rabbits that Ghost killed. 

At this point, of course, it doesn’t matter because it happened differently. Since GRRM had to scrap the 5-year-gap for being unworkable, this plan had to change. Sansa has been in the Vale for way long enough to be certain that pregnancy, at least, is not a factor. This theoretical Lannister baby is a scrap in the bin. 

Whether he will pick up this thread directly (by possibly even repeating it when the un-annulled marriage becomes a factor again) or transfer some of this onto Sansa’s storyline by another character, Sansa remains officially a maiden and will most probably become pregnant at some point in a way that recalls the Virgin Mary. It may straight up be Jon’s baby at this point, what with the time constraints. Not remembering is certaintly something that will come up between them. Or it may have either an uncertain or a more sinister “source”.

It’s going to be interesting!

Either way, thank you so much for the ask, it really inspired me!

Daenerys Rejects Mass Slaughter

I’ve been working my way--ever so slowly--through A Dance with Dragons and have made it up to Daenerys IV.  I’ve been meaning to post about it for a while but it seems especially relevant now, after Episode 8.04.  Always assuming that D&D follow GRRM’s vision, of course.  

Dany is beset on all sides in Meereen.  She is repeatedly tempted to stray from her moral course, to choose the easy, expedient way.  In the process we learn more about her vision of what a ruler should be and do.  

Very early on I wrote about why I think Viserys and Illyrio were Dany’s first two alchemists:  https://argentvive.tumblr.com/post/167134718575/daenerys-mentors-who-is-the-alchemist

With her increasing experience of what it is to rule, Dany has started to develop her own ideas.  Viserys’ mission was to return to Westeros and reconquer the Iron Throne.  For four books, Dany took that mission as her own.  But in ADWD she CHOOSES to put herself in a different crucible, alchemically speaking.  She decides to delay returning to Westeros and to remain in Meereen until she can put things right.  Temporarily at least, she has become her own alchemist.

In Daenerys IV of ADWD, she has two conversations that show the development of Dany’s vision of rule.  The first is with the Green Grace priestess, Galazza Galare. First they speak about the nightly murders of the Sons of the Harpy.

“And yet Your Radiance has found the courage to answer butchery with mercy. You have not harmed any of the noble children you hold as hostage....The Shavepate would feed them to your dragons, it is said. A life for a life. For every Brazen Beast cut down, he would have a child die.”

Dany doesn’t respond but we are privy to her thoughts.

The Shavepate has a harder heart than mine....What good is peace if it must be purchased with the blood of little children?

So we have a little reminder that Dany is the Heart character. She tells Galazza:

“These murders are not their doing....I am no butcher queen.”

The priestess then suggests that Dany marry a local notable.  This is her reasoning:

“When my people look at you, they see a conqueror from across the seas, come to murder us and make slaves of our children.  A king could change that. A highborn king of pure Ghiscari blood could reconcile the city to your rule.”

Marrying  Hizdahr zo Loraq is not something Dany wants to do, but it doesn’t involve violence.  Daenerys is willing to sacrifice her happiness--and her body--if it might bring peace.  She briefly considers her other suitor, Skahaz, the Shavepate, whom she trusts more than Hizdahr.

...but the Shavepate would be a disaster as a king.  He was too quick to anger, too slow to forgive.  

So Daenerys proposes to Hizdahr and wants to know why he would accept:

“...Is it so strange that I would want to protect my own people, as you protect your freedmen? Meereen cannot endure another war, Your Radiance.”

Dany finds that “a good answer, and a honest one,” and in response, lays out her own governing principles:

“I have never wanted war. I defeated the Yunkai’i once and spared their city when I might have sacked it. I refused to join King Cleon when he marched against them. Even now, with Astapor besieged, I stay my hand. And Qarth . . . I have never done the Qartheen any harm . . .”

She is adamant about the abolition of slavery: “I would sooner perish fighting than return my children to bondage.”

She sets Hizdahr a quest: if he can secure 90 days of peace, without a murder, they will marry on the 91st.  

After Hizdahr leaves, Ser Barristan emerges from the shadows and she explains her reasoning to him.

“...My people are bleeding. Dying. A queen belongs not to herself, but to the realm. Marriage or carnage, those are my choices.”

Ser Barristan suggests a third option: go to Westeros.  That was Viserys’ goal--will Dany revert to that?  No.  She is making her own decisions now. She is beginning to become her own alchemist.  

She wanted Westeros as much as he did, but first she must heal Meereen.  

Before he leaves Selmy tells her that Daario is waiting below.  She is excited for their reunion and decides to get changed “to make myself beautiful.”

GRRM spends a lot of time describing clothing.  I’ve written up some examples where I believe the colors of clothing and jewellery have alchemical significance, e.g. “Sansa Is White.”  I suspect Dany’s choices here are meaningful too.

“Bring the grey linen gown with the pearls on the bodice. Oh, and my white lion’s pelt.”

Dany is Sulphur and Red.  Her House colors are Red and Black.  Those are her true colors.  In her marriage to Drogo she was forced into a false role--she was forced to be White.  Drogo called her “Moon of my life” and gave her a horse called “Silver.”  Here again she is trying to fit into a false role, this time with Daario.  That doesn’t bode well for their upcoming reunion.  

We get a pretty direct statement of how Daenerys has grown and matured into her role as queen:

The girl in her wanted to kiss him so much it hurt. His kisses would be hard and cruel, she told herself, and he would not care if I cried out or commanded him to stop. But the queen in her knew that would be folly.

That sounds like a pretty dysfunctional relationship to me, right off the bat.  And Daenerys finally realizes it:

He made her want to be his wanton. I should never seen him alone. He is too dangerous to have near me.  

Daario suggests she marry him instead of Hizdahr.  He suggests indiscriminate mass murder--all the Great Masters-- as a solution to her problems.

“Kill them all and take their treasures, I say. Whisper the command, and your Daario will make you a pile of their heads taller than this pyramid.”

Dany protests that they don’t know who exactly is to blame. “We have no proof this is their work.  Would you have me slaughter my own subjects?”

Daario suggests inviting all the Great Masters to her wedding and slaughtering them then and there.  Then comes this pivotal exchange:

Dany was appalled. He is a monster. A gallant monster, but a monster still. “Do you take me for the Butcher King?”

“Better the butcher than the meat. All kings are butchers. Are queens so different?”

“This queen is.”

Dany rebukes him for his insolence, and when she stands up, the lion pelt slips from her shoulders and tumbles to the ground.  She has shed the false identity she had assumed for her meeting  with Daario.

After she dismisses him, she recalls Ser Barristan and tells him she wants Daario and his forces away, back into the field.  Daario represents lust and the temptations of the Body to Dany; in alchemy terms, she is leaving the Body behind, as in the upper right of this gorgeous illustration.  (The Body is in the coffin; the Soul and Spirit are rising from it.)

That night, as she tries to sleep, she wrestles with her decision to send him away.  

“He would make a monster of me,” she whispered, “a butcher queen.” But then she thought of Drogon far away, and the dragons in the pit.  There is blood on my hands too, and on my heart. We are not so different, Daario and I. We are both monsters.

Dany is being a little hard on herself here.  The “blood on her hands” is because of Drogon, not her own deeds.  But she does recognize the threat of violence that the dragons pose.  They represent Mercurius, the base matter, and, as I’ve said before, I believe all three will perish before her final transformation to the Red Stone.  

Being your own alchemist is rare but not unprecedented.  In The Tempest, Prospero is the magician who sets the play in motion by creating the massive storm that shipwrecks his enemies on the island.  But in the end, it is Prospero who is transformed, as he forgives his enemies and frees Ariel.  The reconciliation is sealed with the marriage of Miranda to Ferdinand.  

Daenerys does get a third alchemist, Melisandre, in Season 7, who brings “Fire and Ice together.”  Then, when Dany and Jon join in the Chemical Wedding, they take on each other’s characteristics, merging their missions and purpose in life.  Or, as Emilia Clarke put it, they achieve a kind of “symbiosis.”

i haven’t been around the fandom for long and just finished adwd. i was wondering what you think’s going to happen with the whole lady stoneheart situation?

in general:

counting that jaime by the end of adwd is MIA and has been for weeks, there’s no way LS has killed either him or brienne or the bodies would have showed up and that’s the one thing we can all be sure about

given how grrm is fixed on her importance in the plot I think she has to be pivotal to either avenging the rw or starting a chain of events that leads to it, but

however that happens, I think the eventual endgame is that brienne eventually kills her to save jaime’s head because there’s no way she’ll be swayed to spare him and........ it makes too much of a perfect aerys parallel for grrm not to go for it, because it would put brienne in the same position jaime was in but if he’s there to make sure she doesn’t turn like he did then she could get out of it still believing in honor and vows and he would know that she’d have broken her vow or died over killing him, which would be huge for him at that point and would make a damn heavy weight in both their storylines, sooooo...

anyway I think eventually they go look for sansa together to uphold the vow and then maybe he goes back to KL to try and save tommen/get widow’s wail if jonc/aegon try to take it, but I also don’t even think jaime’s a ripe candidate for valonqaring these days so... xD anyway: I think she needs to have some role when it comes to the freys getting the payuppance and brienne definitely puts her out of her misery rather than kill jaime. two cents xD