i've been wondering- what do you think of vash and ww's relationship to pain? do u have any thoughts on it??
cuz i was just thinking like. obviously they're both extremely resilient and don't care much if they get hurt in the process of achieving whatever, but like... as for the pain specifically, i have to wonder.
cuz i'm reading trimax for the first time and toward the end of the sand steamer mess kite basically asks if vash even feels pain. and i mean... he has to, since not that long ago he just hit the floor with a dramatic blood splatter lmao. but like.
is he just suppressing visible reactions? or does he just not feel pain unless it's above a certain level?
and i wanna know about ww too if you have thoughts, i just haven't gotten that far in trimax :')
forgive me if my wording is all over the place, i havent been very elegant in my words Lately, but i am always down to talk about specific shit involving vash and wolfwood,
if we're just talking physical pain, yeah, i think they feel pain normally!
For Vash, he is the master of repression throughout Trimax, so I think naturally, he keeps a strong face no matter the level of hurt, whether on the outside or inner. It's just in his nature to not allow others to worry about him by pulling through with a fake smile or in some cases, he feels like he deserves the pain inflicted on him so even if he's getting pulverized to shit or threatened against his life, he'd default to a silence as opposed to screaming in agony that might make people think he isn't feeling anything. It's probably also second nature for him to no longer yelp or cry at pain after the amount of years he's spent getting hurt, but i think this only applies if he isn't emotionally involved in a fight (which is rare, but it happens in ch. 38).
In terms of physical pain, he seems to feel it like how regular humans do. I've thrown together some examples where he goes owchie owchie owchie that aren't too spoilery:
The Emilio scene is kind of why I don't think he's just playing up the theatrics of feeling pain, though I do think he would on some occasion, especially since he roleplays with children all the time. Verbally saying "ow ow ow" could potentially be an instinctive reaction too or maybe a source of comfort. But yeah!! I think Vash has always been able to feel pain and it's not like being a plant has lessen his ability to do so. Any resilience built is tacked on due to him being alive for 100 years and being a guy with a clear painted bullseye on his entire figure that ends up getting him shot and scarred.
In the end, the pain that gets to Vash the most will always be on an emotional level rather than physical, but Vash is such a genuine person and so present when it comes to other people that even if it's a pain he can take, it'll still hurt him terribly in more ways than one.
For Wolfwood; I think in general, those under the Eye of Michael have a strong resilience to dealing with pain due to the regen potions and the amount of training forced on them. I don't think we ever get the full description of what exactly those in EoM endured throughout their younger years, but we saw WW get shot at an early age in chapter 12 and we can assume it happened more than once. Over and over again until he won't even flinch against it just like how killing without hesitation was attempted to be drilled into him. I don't really know how it works scientifically… but I fully believe that he's mostly numbed to the physical sensation of it and it's the psychological part that gets to him more. Wolfwood himself is a naturally skilled fighter too, not that that really has anything to do with his dealing with pain, but I think his focus and attention on a battle and his stubbornness to win kicks an adrenaline that allows him to ignore the pain.
Though, his body also gets sore and tired just like any regular human does and there's this instance where he goes owie too:
(While NOT as much as Tristamp WW does where he's cracking a cold one every goddamn minute, I do think Trimax WW has gotten used to taking regen pots and thus, can afford to be careless and not give a damn.)
So, physically, technically in canon, they don't really have anything that specially makes either of them unable to feel pain, but just as you said, they're incredibly resilient. And ultimately, the both of them are affected emotionally/psychologically that hurts them more than the physical aspect of it, considering how physical pain is almost a daily chore for them to deal with (Vash being hunted for sport for majority of his life + Wolfwood being involved in experiments/killings for majority of his life.)
I think Trigun in general, while showing physical pain being a strong factor of hurt for regular people like us constantly seeing civiilians get beat up or shot, it tends to boil down to the multiple varieties of pain when it comes to those who deal with physical pain often (Gung Hos, Vash, EoM members).
I didn't know where to put these comments but here are extra thoughts:
They're both evidently really good at hiding their pains or any mark of vulnerability. They both could have a hole in their chest and go days without anyone else noticing so long it isn't killing them.
They're both pretty reckless during battle, but I think for Vash, he already tries to avoid violence at all cost and thus, do in a roundabout way lessen his own chance of getting hit in hoping to not stir that violence against another. As a result, I think Wolfwood can be way more reckless and ends up getting hurt more unnecessarily as a result of it.
They both are capable of healing at quick rates so I'm sure that allows the pain to feel more temporary, less of a risk to sustain, and to further hone in not caring too much about getting shot. That only applies for themselves individually though because every time they see each other get hurt, they're always so so worried despite knowing the other will be fine.
i'm pretty sure i repeated myself like 800 times, but i hope this Answered the question SFGMSDKGSMDKH i also tried to be vague enough in my wordings and focus only on the beginning-ish of trimax so to not spoil! i hope u enjoy ur reading of it!!
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Spoilers for My Friendly Neighborhood? And Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Maybe? IDK I'm just putting my thoughts down.
I watched Super Horror Bro's let's play of MFN and I really liked it! Gordon is great, Ricky is great, everyone is great... but a lot of people seem to be over looking the whole "living puppets" thing? (or maybe I just haven't been looking hard enough.) And that got me thinking... what if the world logic of MFN is like that of Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
Like, the two have some similarities already (tough, down on his luck guy with a gun deals with the shenanigans of TV mascots while dark things happen around him), but let's put it like this:
In the world of Roger Rabbit, cartoon characters (toons) are alive. This isn't really explained in the movie, as far as I remember, but it's just a fact. The toons are real, they have jobs, they have a place to live, but they're also sort of considered "second class citizens" in a way; they don't really get a lot of variety in what jobs they can thrive in (they work in entertainment, usually), and they don't always get treated very well (Eddie Valiant, the protagonist, often responds to cartoon shenanigans by saying "toons" in a clearly derogatory way; and cartoon tools like singing swords and sentient shoes [which I think are safe to assume they're alive and sentient? less so than other toons, but you get it] are kept in boxes, seemingly for long periods of time). Toons also have their "Toon Town", their own separate place to live that, for much of the movie, is in danger due to the owner of Toon Town (a human) dying and potentially letting Toon Town get destroyed for the sake of a highway, and thus destroying the only known place where toons can safely live.
So, to summarize: 1. Toons are alive, an accepted fact by society. 2. Toons are citizens, and are expected to work to earn their keep. 3. Toons are citizens, and there is slight prejudice against them ("slight" may be putting it lightly).
Now, let's look at MFN:
Gordon J. O'Brien is a human, who is tasked with shutting off the antenna of the studio that used to produce and televise the children's show My Friendly Neighborhood. We see in a cutscene prior to gameplay that most television shows are hosted/acted by human players, except for MFN, which is primarily led by puppet actors. Nothing wrong there; it's a children's show, and as a lot of children shows go, puppets and other cartoonish set pieces are used to entertain. Most adult shows are filled with live people, and at the hour that the TV is shown, adult programming is more likely to be on than children's programming.
But consider what happens when Gordon enters the studio lot, namely when he first meets Ricky the sock puppet. Gordon is surprised by Ricky's appearance, but he doesn't really address it. In fact, he treats Ricky like he might be the owner/face of the establishment. We could argue that Gordon is just rolling with it: it's his last job of the day, he's on probation for a bad attitude and could get fired for failing to do his job or keeping up that bad attitude, so he's just playing along with whoever the crazy human behind the sock puppet is. All well and good, except when things start getting darker.
Gordon sees a puppet (Norman) bashing its head against the wall, seemingly of its own free will, and he offers little more than a "what the...?" Even when the puppets begin attacking him, he just carries on. Maybe he's just super dedicated to finishing his job and leaving so he can go home. But there comes a point, I'd like to think, when dealing with potentially deadly possessed puppets where a normal person thinks, "is this minimum wage job really worth my life?" and usually, the answer is probably "no, consequences be damned, I'm leaving while I'm alive."
So that begs the question: what sort of person carries on with his job when it's possible there are murder puppets after his life? Most people have said that Gordon is just "so done" with everything in his life that he doesn't particularly care, which makes sense; he seems to be a war veteran with little to enjoy in his life. But there's "being done", and there's "a strange but relatively normal day". So: what if puppets being sentient is just... a thing? A rule that the world doesn't necessarily question? Puppets trying to hug people to death is definitely unusual, but that's the only strange thing.
That leads to another supporting question: who owns the studio where MFN used to be broadcast? The buildings, for the most part, are all well maintained with working electricity and general power. It's a little under kept, but the maintenance is there. And yet, there are no people around. At all. All of the offices are empty, all of the sewer areas are empty, it's just puppets all the way down. But why? The show isn't being made any more, so why are all these buildings empty? Shouldn't they be filled with new businesses, new people, new lives? Or at the very least, if no one owns them/uses them, then shouldn't they be knocked down and the land used for some other company? A newspaper mentions a company that bought up a lot of land and buildings for their own consumerist purposes, often kicking tenants out of their homes to do so, so clearly it's not unheard of to knock down/take over buildings that have no obvious purpose.
But the puppets still live there. The puppets do their own thing, wallowing in their accidental trauma, but otherwise not going out and attacking people. They stick to their buildings, and don't bother anyone. So is the MFN studio the "Toon Town" for these puppets? Do they technically "own" the lot? I recall a different note mentioning that the tools and materials of MFN were the "property" of a different company after MFN was taken off air, but the puppets are still in the building, wandering around. Why, unless they have some right to the land?
It could also offer an explanation of why Gordon is tasked with turning off the antenna instead of any other company: the puppets refuse to turn off the antenna and stop broadcasting their show over the network, so they have to send someone in to do it themselves. Not just anyone, though: a down on his luck old war vet with a bad attitude who doesn't seem to have any real importance to the city. If he does get killed, fine, send someone else to do it. If he succeeds, great! In fact, everyone seems so happy to see him successfully disable the antenna that he gets promoted to manager in the "bad ending", despite being on probation. Why is he rewarded so much for doing his job, unless it was really important that the show was shut off? Maybe it's a weird political statement? Or a symbol of human dominance over the "puppet class"? Whatever the case, it's definitely weird that Gordon is so well rewarded for shutting down the show.
Alternatively, in the "normal" and "true" endings, Gordon decides to help get the show back on the air, legally. In the normal ending, he specifically makes a note of how he has to keep his head down, not telling anyone what he's doing and eventually not coming back to the studio because he thinks he's done his part and can move on. In the true ending, he's found out and fired, despite disconnecting the antenna as his job required him. Why would he be fired for doing his job? Unless the wire disconnect was meant to have some bigger meaning? Are the puppets considered "second class", or "other"? Is their show getting back on air and gaining a following some sort of problem for the company Gordon works for? Some people like the show, and some people hate it, but it does gain a following.
A recurring theme in this game is "darkness/meanness vs light/goodness", with modern "adult" television being dark and mean and more "appropriate" in the post war world, and the old "children" television being a bright reminder to be good and friendly, which doesn't correlate with the world that the post war city has become. Maybe the puppets are a living reminder of the "good" in the world that adults are shielding themselves from? I don't know, I'm kind of rambling at this point.
Speaking of the war- isn't it weird how they just refer to it as "the war"? Based on the context and the dates, it's fairly agreed by the community that the war represents the Vietnam War, a controversial event that televised the dark realities of war to everyone with a television, which was mostly everyone. If it's supposed to be the Vietnam War, why not just call it that? Unless it's not the Vietnam War, not technically, in this universe? Since the puppets are living beings (even if they aren't exposed to television and the horrors of war until after the show stops), maybe there are other historical differences in this universe, too? Different lands, boundaries, people, etc?
And when the puppets- no longer supervised due to a world going dark from the atrocities of war- watch television to find what they're missing that other TV shows have, they get traumatized by what they see, and inadvertently incorporate it into what they know. They're impressionable, like children- or a sheltered class of people. They all get a little intense- insane ramblings and hugging people to death- but some of them go so far as to physically change themselves (remove their eyes, give themselves human teeth, turn into monsters) as a screwed attempt to gain the love and attention that the "darkness" offers. Unless someone takes some time to talk to the puppets, to let them know that there can still be good and light in the world, then the puppets will all remain on that lot, by themselves, without an outlet, and will possibly be destroyed when the now pointless studio lot is without purpose. That's what Gordon's for: someone who has also been troubled by the darkness of the world, but can take the time and empathy to be a little bit friendly.
Sorry for the long post; it's possible there's more stuff I forgot to talk about, or some information I got wrong, but feel free to add your thoughts to this! I need to go to bed, I have work in the morning.
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okay hear me out modern au where Tommy and Maria first meet in a club in their 20s and they bump into each other while dancing and just start dancing together and they just hit it off but in the end they both forget to give each other their numbers so both of them go back to the same club the next week to hopefully meet each other again (also Tess and Maria definitely go clubbing together because I love them as best friends)
cowboy!!!! yes yes YES i LOVE this. and u could extend this meet-cute into like a whole thing where tommy and maria keep trying to meet at the club and exchange information, but something gets in the way everytime!!!! kid emergency!!! bar fight!!! cocaine bear on the loose!!! zombie apocalypse—who knows????
im thinking the first time, tess drags maria to a bar she likes because she’s been trying to get the attention of this hot dilfy guy at the bar, but he’s always tailing along with his friend. by tess’s design, maria and tommy meet and and hit it off and dance (to maria maria by santana) the night away. they fall in love and decide they want to go home together, so maria goes to the bathroom—but joel randomly comes up and is like “tommy, hey sorry selena’s mom called, sarah had a nightmare and she wants us both to pick her up, we gotta go” and in true miller dad-uncle panic they BOLT. by the time maria comes back, tess is like “idk dude, mine got a call so they had to go. seemed like an emergency. bummer” and they assume thats that
on the flip side: everythings okay with sarah, but after tommy and joel tuck her in tommy’s suddenly just like “fuck—fuck!!!!!” and joels like “what? what???” and he’s like “i didn’t get her number :(:(:(:( fuck” and so joel’s like “it’s okay, i see her friend there all the time” and so tommy’s like “omg :D do you have her friends number?” “well… no” “joel… what the fuck man.” so they make a plan to go back next week with the hopes of at least seeing tess and getting maria’s number from there—tommy also wants to get tess’s number for joel, but he doesn’t need to know that
little do THEY know, tess and maria are already plotting for next weekend. they show up to that bar looking fine as FUCK—they quite literally turn heads walking through the door. of course the miller brothers are there, sitting in a booth all the way in the back and waiting, making eyes. tess and maria are not shy, so they start making their way over. unfortunately, some drunk asshole decides to try to get handsy with tess on her way there—which results in her punching him in the face, which results in him trying to punch her in the face. she dodges, of course, but it starts a full-on bar brawl that the miller boys jump into without hesitation (joel manages to tackle and land a few good ones on og drunk asshole too so. slay.). none of them get arrested or anything, but they definitely don’t get eachother numbers on account of joel and tommy having to duck the cops
so i guess they gotta keep trying ;)
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